Jihadis 'not terrorists': scholar

JIHAD is not the same as terrorism but the opposite - it is the war on terrorism, a visiting Islamic scholar told a large Muslim meeting in Melbourne last night.

''The Australian Federal Police are the jihadi element of the Australian government - they are trying to maintain law and order,'' Brother Imran told a largely Arab audience that overflowed the Sidney Myer Asia Centre at Melbourne University into two upper floors with large screens.

''People who try to keep law and order are jihadis, and people who try to break it are terrorists,'' Brother Imran said.

''Extremist elements are wrongly calling themselves jihadis, and that is confusing everyone.''

The seminar - ''Jihad and terrorism: are they the same''? - was organised by the Islamic Research and Educational Academy, with the support of some of Melbourne's more conservative Muslim groups, traditionally more wary of integrating, including Sheikh Mohammed Omran's Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'ah and the Islamic Information and Services Network of Australia.

Preston Mosque, the Islamic Council of Victoria and several other Islamic groups also supported the seminar.

Brother Imran, an Indian Muslim from Hyderabad, said some media helped created misconceptions among Muslims and about Muslims.

Most Muslims got news from hearsay rather than direct investigation, but the Koran clearly instructed people to verify news before they reacted, he said.

Brother Imran said Australian Muslims must follow Australian laws and obey Australian authorities, and that it was safer and more comfortable to be a Muslim in Australia than it was in most countries.

But he said Australian authorities should not treat Muslims as more suspicious than other groups because that created misconceptions inside and outside the community and made Muslims defensive.

Brother Imran said there were 1565 terrorist attacks in Europe between 2007 and 2010, of which only six were carried out by Muslims.

More than 1400 were by Irish groups, he said.

Greg Barton, of Monash University's Global Terrorism Research Centre, told the meeting it was important to distinguish between individuals who used violence for political causes and the wider community on whose behalf they claimed to act.

Professor Barton told The Age he spoke as an academic and a Christian, because it was important for this audience - many of whom did not have much contact with the wider community and tended to believe the world prejudged Muslims - to see that Christians were sympathetic.

Organiser Wasim Razvi said he wanted to reach lay Muslims, not just leaders, and that all the groups involved had strong followings.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/jihadis-not-terrorists-scholar-20120624-20wjy.html

Europol Report: All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 99.6% that Aren’t

http://www.loonwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/eu_img.jpg

Europol releases an annual study of terrorism; the results do not support claims that "(nearly) all Muslims are terrorists"

Islamophobes have been popularizing the claim that “not all Muslims are terrorists, but (nearly) all terrorists are Muslims.”  Despite this idea becoming axiomatic in some circles, it is quite simply not factual.  In my previous article entitled “All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 94% that Aren’t”, I used official FBI records to show that only 6% of terrorist attacks on U.S. soil from 1980 to 2005 were carried out by Islamic extremists.  The remaining 94% were from other groups (42% from Latinos, 24% from extreme left wing groups, 7% from extremist Jews, 5% from communists, and 16% from all other groups).

But what about across the pond?  The data gathered by Europol strengthens my argument even further. (hat tip: Koppe)  Europol publishes an annual report entitled EU Terrorism Situation and Trend Report.  On their official website, you can access the reports from 2007, 2008, and 2009.  (If anyone can find the reports from earlier than that, please let me know so we can include those as well.)

The results are stark, and prove decisively that not all terrorists are Muslims.  In fact, a whopping 99.6% of terrorist attacks in Europe were by non-Muslim groups; a good 84.8% of attacks were from separatist groups completely unrelated to Islam.  Leftist groups accounted for over sixteen times as much terrorism as radical Islamic groups.  Only a measly 0.4% of terrorist attacks from 2006 to 2008 could be attributed to extremist Muslims.

Here are the official tables provided in the reports…

For 2006:
http://www.loonwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/20063b.jpg


For 2007:
http://www.loonwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/2007b.jpg

For 2008:
http://www.loonwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/20081b.jpg


(According to the report, there was 1 “Islamist attack” in the UK in 2008, which was omitted in the table above.  It has been included in the bar graph below.)

Just glancing at those tables is enough to know how absurd it is to claim that “all terrorists are Muslims.”  That statement is nowhere near the truth.  If we compile the data, it comes out to this:

http://www.loonwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/barchart-copy-502x502-custom.jpg

On p.7, the 2009 Europol report concludes:


Quote:

Islamist terrorism is still perceived as being the biggest threat worldwide, despite the fact that the EU only faced one Islamist terrorist attack in 2008.  This bomb attack took place in the UK…Separatist terrorism remains the terrorism area which affects the EU most. This includes Basque separatist terrorism in Spain and France, and Corsican terrorism in France…Past contacts between ETA and the FARC illustrate the fact that also separatist terrorist organizations seek cooperation partners outside the EU on the basis of common interests.  In the UK, dissident Irish republican groups, principally the RIRA and the CIRA, and other paramilitary groups may continue to engage in crime and violence.

Perception is not reality.  Due to the right wing’s influence and propaganda, people mistakenly think that Islamic terrorism is the greatest threat to the Western world.  It is even a commonly held belief that Islamic terrorism poses an existential threat–that the very survival of the Western world is at stake.  Of course, the reality is that there are other groups that engage in terrorism on a much larger scale, yet these terrorist incidents are minimized.  Acts of terrorism committed by Muslims are purposefully sensationalized and focused upon, culminating in the idea that “(nearly) all terrorists are Muslims.”

Terrorism from Islamic extremists is certainly a cause for concern, but it need not be an issue that creates mass hysteria.  Nor should it be allowed to be such a critical issue that we are willing to sacrifice our ideals or civil rights for fear of it.  Neither should we be reduced to a status of absolute sissitude.  We have analyzed data from America and Europe (a good portion of the entire Western world), and the threat from Islamic terrorism is much more minimal than commonly assumed; in the U.S., it accounts for 6% of terrorist attacks, and in Europe not even half of a percent.

It is only through sensationalism and fear mongering that the topic of Islamic terrorism is allowed to be used to demonize a religious community that happens to be a minority in the West.  When confronted by such lunacy, we ought to respond with the facts and the truth.

http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/terrorism-in-europe/

Isn't it intersting to note the disparity between "leftwing" and "rightwing" terrorists?

2006
leftwads - 55
righties - 1

2007
leftwads 21
righties 1

2008
leftwads 28
righties  0

But that won't stop em claiming they're all for peace love n harmony.

... wrote on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 1:54pm:

Isn't it intersting to note the disparity between "leftwing" and "rightwing" terrorists? 2006 leftwads - 55 righties - 1 2007 leftwads 21 righties 1 2008 leftwads 28 righties  0 But that won't stop em claiming they're all for peace love n harmony.

I think the number of rightie terror attacks goes up of you include the deeds of George W & Netanyahu.

falah wrote on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 3:52pm:

... wrote on Jun 26th, 2012 at 1:54pm: Isn't it intersting to note the disparity between "leftwing" and "rightwing" terrorists? 2006 leftwads - 55 righties - 1 2007 leftwads 21 righties 1 2008 leftwads 28 righties  0 But that won't stop em claiming they're all for peace love n harmony. I think the number of rightie terror attacks goes up of you include the deeds of George W & co.

...but would be met with a more-than-equal measure of left wing terrorism by the deeds of Obama and co.

... wrote on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 3:54pm:

falah wrote on Jun 26th, 2012 at 3:52pm: ... wrote on Jun 26th, 2012 at 1:54pm: Isn't it intersting to note the disparity between "leftwing" and "rightwing" terrorists? 2006 leftwads - 55 righties - 1 2007 leftwads 21 righties 1 2008 leftwads 28 righties  0 But that won't stop em claiming they're all for peace love n harmony. I think the number of rightie terror attacks goes up of you include the deeds of George W & co. ...but would be met with a more-than-equal measure of left wing terrorism by the deeds of Obama and co.

If you consider Obama to be left of centre.

falah wrote on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 5:18pm:

... wrote on Jun 26th, 2012 at 3:54pm: falah wrote on Jun 26th, 2012 at 3:52pm: ... wrote on Jun 26th, 2012 at 1:54pm: Isn't it intersting to note the disparity between "leftwing" and "rightwing" terrorists? 2006 leftwads - 55 righties - 1 2007 leftwads 21 righties 1 2008 leftwads 28 righties  0 But that won't stop em claiming they're all for peace love n harmony. I think the number of rightie terror attacks goes up of you include the deeds of George W & co. ...but would be met with a more-than-equal measure of left wing terrorism by the deeds of Obama and co. If you consider Obama to be left of centre.

There is much to suggest that GWB is left of centre if you wanted to get into it. 

Have you ever seen a Muslim report the Islamic terrorism rate by death toll percentage rather than by event percentage?

falah wrote on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 1:48pm:

Europol Report: All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 99.6% that Aren’t http://www.loonwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/eu_img.jpg Europol releases an annual study of terrorism; the results do not support claims that "(nearly) all Muslims are terrorists" Islamophobes have been popularizing the claim that “not all Muslims are terrorists, but (nearly) all terrorists are Muslims.”  Despite this idea becoming axiomatic in some circles, it is quite simply not factual.  In my previous article entitled “All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 94% that Aren’t”, I used official FBI records to show that only 6% of terrorist attacks on U.S. soil from 1980 to 2005 were carried out by Islamic extremists.  The remaining 94% were from other groups (42% from Latinos, 24% from extreme left wing groups, 7% from extremist Jews, 5% from communists, and 16% from all other groups). But what about across the pond?  The data gathered by Europol strengthens my argument even further. (hat tip: Koppe)  Europol publishes an annual report entitled EU Terrorism Situation and Trend Report.  On their official website, you can access the reports from 2007, 2008, and 2009.  (If anyone can find the reports from earlier than that, please let me know so we can include those as well.) The results are stark, and prove decisively that not all terrorists are Muslims.  In fact, a whopping 99.6% of terrorist attacks in Europe were by non-Muslim groups; a good 84.8% of attacks were from separatist groups completely unrelated to Islam.  Leftist groups accounted for over sixteen times as much terrorism as radical Islamic groups.  Only a measly 0.4% of terrorist attacks from 2006 to 2008 could be attributed to extremist Muslims. Here are the official tables provided in the reports… For 2006: http://www.loonwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/20063b.jpg For 2007: http://www.loonwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/2007b.jpg For 2008: http://www.loonwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/20081b.jpg (According to the report, there was 1 “Islamist attack” in the UK in 2008, which was omitted in the table above.  It has been included in the bar graph below.) Just glancing at those tables is enough to know how absurd it is to claim that “all terrorists are Muslims.”  That statement is nowhere near the truth.  If we compile the data, it comes out to this: http://www.loonwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/barchart-copy-502x502-custom.jpg On p.7, the 2009 Europol report concludes: Quote: Islamist terrorism is still perceived as being the biggest threat worldwide, despite the fact that the EU only faced one Islamist terrorist attack in 2008.  This bomb attack took place in the UK…Separatist terrorism remains the terrorism area which affects the EU most. This includes Basque separatist terrorism in Spain and France, and Corsican terrorism in France…Past contacts between ETA and the FARC illustrate the fact that also separatist terrorist organizations seek cooperation partners outside the EU on the basis of common interests.  In the UK, dissident Irish republican groups, principally the RIRA and the CIRA, and other paramilitary groups may continue to engage in crime and violence. Perception is not reality.  Due to the right wing’s influence and propaganda, people mistakenly think that Islamic terrorism is the greatest threat to the Western world.  It is even a commonly held belief that Islamic terrorism poses an existential threat–that the very survival of the Western world is at stake.  Of course, the reality is that there are other groups that engage in terrorism on a much larger scale, yet these terrorist incidents are minimized.  Acts of terrorism committed by Muslims are purposefully sensationalized and focused upon, culminating in the idea that “(nearly) all terrorists are Muslims.” Terrorism from Islamic extremists is certainly a cause for concern, but it need not be an issue that creates mass hysteria.  Nor should it be allowed to be such a critical issue that we are willing to sacrifice our ideals or civil rights for fear of it.  Neither should we be reduced to a status of absolute sissitude.  We have analyzed data from America and Europe (a good portion of the entire Western world), and the threat from Islamic terrorism is much more minimal than commonly assumed; in the U.S., it accounts for 6% of terrorist attacks, and in Europe not even half of a percent. It is only through sensationalism and fear mongering that the topic of Islamic terrorism is allowed to be used to demonize a religious community that happens to be a minority in the West.  When confronted by such lunacy, we ought to respond with the facts and the truth. http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/terrorism-in-europe/

The people who threw petrol bomb directly at me were all Muslim.
I have seen the anger and hatred of this hate filled religion with my own eyes

Interesting figures you left out Falah regarding arrest rates.

# Muslim terrorists            # number of others            Percentage Muslim
2007      257                        449                        57%
2008      201                        843                        23.8%
2009      187                        822                        22.7%

Looking at the above you would think that the war against muslim terrorism is being won. Think again.

Conviction Rates

#muslims found guilty            other terrorists            Percentage muslim
2008            198                        251                  44%
2009            190                        194                  49%

I think other Stats should be used as well, like number of muslims in the EU is just 3.2% of the population. In the UK muslims account for 12.5% of prison inmates.

Did you like these facts and figures Falah.

PS Loonwatch has made threats against people’s lives in the past so it may be classed as terrorist itself.

Inquiry exposes fear of Muslims



    by: PATRICIA KARVELAS

    From: The Australian

    June 27, 2012 12:00AM





AUSTRALIANS are comfortable with multiculturalism and racial diversity, but an overwhelming number of people have expressed concerns that Muslims are not integrating and are coming to Australia to impose their values on the nation.

A far-reaching bipartisan federal parliamentary inquiry into the nation's acceptance of culturally diverse communities, due to report in August, will conclude that the largest issue facing the nation is the acceptance of Muslims, who many Australians fear have an agenda not at one with the country's values.

What you call a muslim scholar I call a c'n idiot.

Soren wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 5:45pm:

have an agenda not at one with the country's values.[/url]

Australian values? Islam will save Australians from these values.


http://treatyrepublic.net/genocide-map/im/massacre-th.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v385/edwardluke/AlanJones.jpg

http://apublicblogging.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/cronulla.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-taYfoOs-rWY/T7lbO7-J8DI/AAAAAAAAD40/YO7tO6YsPKw/s1600/drunk-man-falls-hurts-head-hoboken.jpg

http://images.whereilive.com.au/images/uploads/2010/04/27/bf84a07c965db2d7a901802b148a480d_resized.JPG

i think it's terrible that you equate your country with these pictures. why not leave if you are so full of antipathy for australia?

Adamant wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 11:28am:

Interesting figures you left out Falah regarding arrest rates. # Muslim terrorists            # number of others            Percentage Muslim 2007      257                        449                        57% 2008      201                        843                        23.8% 2009      187                        822                        22.7% Looking at the above you would think that the war against muslim terrorism is being won. Think again. Conviction Rates #muslims found guilty            other terrorists            Percentage muslim 2008            198                        251                  44% 2009            190                        194                  49% I think other Stats should be used as well, like number of muslims in the EU is just 3.2% of the population. In the UK muslims account for 12.5% of prison inmates. Did you like these facts and figures Falah. PS Loonwatch has made threats against people’s lives in the past so it may be classed as terrorist itself.

So you have no problem with these figures Falah or my statement about Loonwatch.

muslims can't ever accept western culture. mohammed could have adopted christianity or judaism but went against both. so now we have muslims who are by definition against jews and christians.the hostility will never stop until one side is killed off.
until the muslims are killed off, actually. the christians and the jews are allowing the muslims to live but the muslims will not let live in return. one side will have to be wiped off the map. the muslims want to wipe everyone else off, religiously speaking, so everyone else can either go along with that or unite in the effort to wipe the muslims off the map.

Quote:

muslims can't ever accept western culture

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA lololololololololololololol

And here i was I thought you had no sense of humour.

SOB

abu_rashid wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 8:21pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 27th, 2012 at 12:44pm: Quote: To me Islam is as Democracy is to you. You believe Democracy must be the foundation of the political system, and that parties which adopt the Democratic ideology can then compete on that platform. Abu, you take it far further than that by insisting that Islam is democracy and is freedom. I don't try to tell you that our system of government is Shariah law and I consider it blatantly dishonest for you to attempt to argue the corollary. What nonsense. I would never degrade the good name of Islam by associating it with these disastrous ideals of freedom and democracy.

freediver wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 10:06am:

abu_rashid wrote on Jun 27th, 2012 at 8:21pm: freediver wrote on Jun 27th, 2012 at 12:44pm: Quote: To me Islam is as Democracy is to you. You believe Democracy must be the foundation of the political system, and that parties which adopt the Democratic ideology can then compete on that platform. Abu, you take it far further than that by insisting that Islam is democracy and is freedom. I don't try to tell you that our system of government is Shariah law and I consider it blatantly dishonest for you to attempt to argue the corollary. What nonsense. I would never degrade the good name of Islam by associating it with these disastrous ideals of freedom and democracy.

You know abu that Islam does not have a good name.

In fact of all the religions it has the worst name of all.

Quote:

Kenya: 'Ten dead' in attacks on Garissa churches Continue reading the main story Related Stories Aid workers kidnapped in Kenya Kenya wants EU to attack Somalia Kenya explosion 'caused by bomb' At least 10 people have been killed in attacks on churches in the Kenyan town of Garissa near Somalia, police say. "So far we have at least 10 killed, and more than 40 wounded," regional deputy police chief Philip Ndolo told Reuters. He said "goons" dressed in balaclavas lobbed grenades at the town's Catholic church and the African Inland Church (AIC). Kenya's border region has been tense since it sent troops into Somalia to pursue al-Shabab Islamic militants. Kenya said the operations, launched last October, were designed to bring an end to kidnappings on Kenyan soil and other violence which it blamed on al-Shabab. But since then, al-Shabab has claimed responsibility for a string of grenade and bomb blasts across Kenya, many deadly. Sunday sermons Sunday's attacks took place during morning sermons at the churches in the garrison town, reports said. Mr Ndolo said all 10 victims died at the AIC, while three people were injured in the apparently co-ordinated attack at the Catholic church. He said five AIC attackers used a combination of grenades and gunfire. "We condemn this act in the strongest terms possible," he said. He said no arrests had been made. Garissa is the capital of North Eastern province, about 130km (60 miles) from the Somali border. It is close to the Dadaab refugee camp, where gunmen kidnapped four aid workers and killed a driver on Friday in an attack Mr Ndolo said he suspected al-Shabab sympathisers of carrying out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18662975

Quote:

Islamist rebels say they will continue to destroy historic sites in Timbuktu before they implement strict Shariah law, as Mali's government compared the destruction to "war crimes". Ansar Dine spokesman Sanda Abu Mohamed said that Islamists will continue the destruction they started on Saturday. "We're going to destroy everything before we apply Shariah in this city," he said. Resident Moussa Maiga said the Islamists have expressed disapproval of what they think is worship of the tombs of the Muslim saints. "They say that the population loves the saints like God," he said. But resident Bouya Ould Sidi Mohamed said the historic city has long had Muslim roots. "Timbuktu was an Islamic city since the 12th century, and we know what the religion says about the saints' tombs," he said. "Contrary to what the Islamists or the Wahabis of Ansar Dine say, here in Timbuktu, the people don't love the saints like God, but just seek the saints' blessings because they are our spiritual guides." Mali's government condemned the destruction, which they say is akin to "war crimes". "The council of ministers has just approved, in principle, the referral to the International Criminal Court and a working group is working to this end," the government said in a statement. The UN cultural agency on Saturday called for an immediate halt to the destruction of three sacred Muslim tombs. Irina Bokova, who heads the UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation, cited in a statement Saturday reports the centuries-old mausoleums of Sidi Mahmoud, Sidi, Moctar and Alpha Moya had been destroyed. On Thursday, UNESCO's World Heritage Committee, meeting in St Petersburg, Russia, placed the mausoleums of Muslim saints on its list of sites in danger at the request of Mali's government. Islamist fighters from the Ansar Dine group have declared that they now control the northern half of Mali after driving out an ethnic Tuareg separatist group. The rebel groups took advantage of a power vacuum created by a March coup in the capital to seize ground in the north. The Islamists' growing reach is more worrying news for the landlocked West African nation. UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon called the attacks on the mausoleums "totally unjustified" and urged all sides to preserve Mali's cultural heritage, according to a statement.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/were-going-to-destroy-everything-before-we-apply-shariah-in-this-city-20120702-21bvp.html

muslims, war, islam, shariah, death, destruction.
abus mindset echoes these sentiments.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2012 at 3:25pm:

Islamist rebels say they will continue to destroy historic sites in Timbuktu before they implement strict Shariah law, as Mali's government compared the destruction to "war crimes"... ...Resident Moussa Maiga said the Islamists have expressed disapproval of what they think is worship of the tombs of the Muslim saints. "They say that the population loves the saints like God," he said...

Islam is the only monotheistic religion in the world.



Prophet Abraham destroyed idols in his home town, and was treated like a terrorist, and was forced to flee from his native Iraq.


The rabbis probably would have called Jesus a war criminal or a terrorist too if the term had existed in his time:


Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves.

"It is written," he said to them, "'My house will be called a house of prayer,' but you are making it a 'den of robbers.'"

Matthew 21:12-3

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 5:55am:

Quote: muslims can't ever accept western culture HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA lololololololololololololol And here i was I thought you had no sense of humour. SOB

Here it is from the camel's mouth, mother.


abu_rashid wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 8:21pm:

I would never degrade the good name of Islam by associating it with these disastrous ideals of freedom and democracy.

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/557038_10150965745067659_513028357_n.jpg

Soren wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2012 at 2:33pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 1st, 2012 at 5:55am: Quote: muslims can't ever accept western culture HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA lololololololololololololol And here i was I thought you had no sense of humour. SOB Here it is from the camel's mouth, mother. abu_rashid wrote on Jun 27th, 2012 at 8:21pm: I would never degrade the good name of Islam by associating it with these disastrous ideals of freedom and democracy.

And of course he speaks for ALL muslims right? silly woman. Dont you have some cooking or ironing to do?

SOB

There are enough Muslims out there who oppose freedom and democracy to keep two wars going for a decade. There are enough of them to keep a big chunk of the world's population living in oppression. That is real oppression, not the 'oppression' you feel because everyone disagrees with you and you don't get your own way.

For someone who claims to oppose all religion, you make an awful lot of excuses for Muslims.

freediver wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 8:12am:

There are enough Muslims out there who oppose freedom and democracy to keep two wars going for a decade. There are enough of them to keep a big chunk of the world's population living in oppression. That is real oppression, not the 'oppression' you feel because everyone disagrees with you and you don't get your own way. For someone who claims to oppose all religion, you make an awful lot of excuses for Muslims.

Oh you poor guy. you cant comprehend anything can you. Is it early onset dementia? Knock on the head? No education? What?

I would prolly say the same thing if you were picking on jews or xtians. they arent ALL like that. We have to live with them. If we poke them with a stick they are going to get riled (any religion) so perhaps the media and governments (and militaries) should stop poking them.

You still havent explained to me what you mean by "freedom and democracy" either - yank term anyway. You mean guns are good?

SOB

Do you think the Americans invented freedom and democracy?

Do you think we should ignore it when people actively campaign for the dismantling of freedom and democracy, in case we make them angry?

Would you defend Nazism as automatically as you defend Islam?


Quote:

I would prolly say the same thing if you were picking on jews or xtians.

I haven't seen you defend Avram or sprint yet. I have only ever seen you defend Muslims and attack all other religions, while pretending you are opposed to all religion.

freediver wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 8:31am:

Do you think the Americans invented freedom and democracy? Do you think we should ignore it when people actively campaign for the dismantling of freedom and democracy, in case we make them angry? Would you defend Nazism as automatically as you defend Islam? Quote: I would prolly say the same thing if you were picking on jews or xtians. I haven't seen you defend Avram or sprint yet. I have only ever seen you defend Muslims and attack all other religions, while pretending you are opposed to all religion.

You havent answered my question.

SOB

SOB -
Quote:

...............If we poke them with a stick they are going to get riled (any religion) so perhaps the media and governments (and militaries) should stop poking them......

no, that ain't true. Christianity gets continually poked with a stick. Probably because the pokers know they won't get beheaded live on the net or assassinated by some extremist.

christians do not impose a political system over anyone.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 11:13am:

SOB - Quote: ...............If we poke them with a stick they are going to get riled (any religion) so perhaps the media and governments (and militaries) should stop poking them...... no, that ain't true. Christianity gets continually poked with a stick. Probably because the pokers know they won't get beheaded live on the net or assassinated by some extremist. christians do not impose a political system over anyone.

The extremists try to. And nobody has poked the KKK in a while. when they are poked they are pretty nasty. How about lobbying for banning gay marriage, abortion, evolution in schools? That isnt trying to interfere in politics? the "tea party" in america and the pope everywhere are the biggest examples of political interference.

Freedivers point is that i should hate muslims and not the others. His other point is that muslims are ALL the same. He misquotes me and misrepresents me a lot. I have said over and over I do not like the extremists of any religion. But not all ppl in a religion are extremists. I do not consider yuo an extremist but avram is. I would have pointed that out in my previous post except i want him to answer my question.

SOB

Quote:

And nobody has poked the KKK in a while.

That is because it got poked to death. It is certainly not because people decided not to challenge them in case they got killed. A lot of very brave Americans stood up to the KKK and brought it down. A lot of this was through open ridicule.

What makes you think it is a good idea to treat Islam differently and to self censor every time a Muslim gets angry?

If the KKK started killing black people again, would you run round defending them and trying to find examples of non-KKK people doing nasty things, all in the hope that if we self censor, the KKK would stop doing it? Or do you reserve that special treatment for Islam?


Quote:

Freedivers point is that i should hate muslims and not the others

No it isn't. I have never suggested you hate anyone. My point is that Islam should be treated like any other ideology that calls for the destruction of freedom and democracy, not given special protection because you are afraid of terrorists.


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His other point is that muslims are ALL the same.

Again spot, try sticking to what I actually said, rather than constantly making stuff up to give yourself an excuse to ignore reality and defend Islam.


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He misquotes me and misrepresents me a lot.

You mean you accuse me of this all the time, but it never actually happens.


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I have said over and over I do not like the extremists of any religion.

I said the exact same thing about you - that you make this claim about yourself all the time. The only difference is that I didn't leave out the fact that you always defend Muslims and criticise other religions. You even do this while openly admitting you have no idea what the Muslims you are defending said. It is an automatic reaction from you.

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You still havent explained to me what you mean by "freedom and democracy" either - yank term anyway. You mean guns are good?

SOB

Yes I have. You can start with a dictionary definition if you want.

I have however asked you plenty of times why we should be uncritical of Islam, but critical of doctrines like Nazism or the KKK. You have never answered. Do you think we should also be too scared to criticise Nazis and KKK members in case it makes them angry? Or is Islam just special? Do you need a definition of freedom to answer this question?

freediver wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 6:16pm:

Yes I have. You can start with a dictionary definition if you want. I have however asked you plenty of times why we should be uncritical of Islam, but critical of doctrines like Nazism or the KKK. You have never answered. Do you think we should also be too scared to criticise Nazis and KKK members in case it makes them angry? Or is Islam just special? Do you need a definition of freedom to answer this question?

I have answered it many times but i havent seen your answer yet.

SOB

Here you go spot:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_freedom

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Quote: You still havent explained to me what you mean by "freedom and democracy" either - yank term anyway. You mean guns are good? SOB

The modern notion of democracy originates with the Enlightenment. The modern concept of (political) freedom goes back to the Magna Carta. Neither of these are 'yank terms', you thick SOB.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 4:26am:

Soren wrote on Jul 3rd, 2012 at 2:33pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 1st, 2012 at 5:55am: Quote: muslims can't ever accept western culture HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA lololololololololololololol And here i was I thought you had no sense of humour. SOB Here it is from the camel's mouth, mother. abu_rashid wrote on Jun 27th, 2012 at 8:21pm: I would never degrade the good name of Islam by associating it with these disastrous ideals of freedom and democracy. And of course he speaks for ALL muslims right? silly woman. Dont you have some cooking or ironing to do? SOB

Well, who do you speak for? Just yourself? No-one has ever shared your ideas??
I am not surprised. Not surprised at all, mother.

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 9:16pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 17th, 2012 at 1:06pm: Quote: You still havent explained to me what you mean by "freedom and democracy" either - yank term anyway. You mean guns are good? SOB The modern notion of democracy originates with the Enlightenment. The modern concept of (political) freedom goes back to the Magna Carta. Neither of these are 'yank terms', you thick SOB.

The modern understanding of freedom and democracy is certainly American.

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Well, who do you speak for? Just yourself? No-one has ever shared your ideas??

He seems to speak for Muslims quite a bit, even though he has no idea what they think.


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The modern understanding of freedom and democracy is certainly American.

Can you elaborate please? I have been known myself to say that America invented freedom and democracy. But I was only joking. Sometimes they carry on as if they did and it is good to remind them that they didn't.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 9:20pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 17th, 2012 at 9:16pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 17th, 2012 at 1:06pm: Quote: You still havent explained to me what you mean by "freedom and democracy" either - yank term anyway. You mean guns are good? SOB The modern notion of democracy originates with the Enlightenment. The modern concept of (political) freedom goes back to the Magna Carta. Neither of these are 'yank terms', you thick SOB. The modern understanding of freedom and democracy is certainly American.

Hey, Political Puppet, have you had enough of having someone's fist up yer arse all the time, like a puppet? Now it's 'Lobbyist'?
Who are you lobbying for? Who is your puppet master?

I have tried asking him that before. He remains steadfastly 'tightlipped'.

He stands in the lobby of a building and opens the door as you approach. That kinda 'lobbyist'.

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 9:16pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 17th, 2012 at 1:06pm: Quote: You still havent explained to me what you mean by "freedom and democracy" either - yank term anyway. You mean guns are good? SOB The modern notion of democracy originates with the Enlightenment. The modern concept of (political) freedom goes back to the Magna Carta. Neither of these are 'yank terms', you thick SOB.

No the yank term is "freedom and democracy" when referring to our country. Its been a slogan since bush. Freediver chants a lot of yank slogans though. He must have paytv.

SOB

freediver wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 6:16pm:

Yes I have. You can start with a dictionary definition if you want. I have however asked you plenty of times why we should be uncritical of Islam, but critical of doctrines like Nazism or the KKK. You have never answered. Do you think we should also be too scared to criticise Nazis and KKK members in case it makes them angry? Or is Islam just special? Do you need a definition of freedom to answer this question?

Twisty twisty. So are you a retired lawyer? Prosecutor. Maybe but you dont seem smart enough though.  . .. hmmm.

I wasnt saying you shouldn't criticise extremists. I am saying that the extremists are not the mainstream. I have said this over and over but you dont want o hear it because then you wouldn't be justified in being scared all the time about the scary muslims in  your backyard.

I am also saying that what you call; terrorists have been provoked by the "wars" and the push for oil.

SOB

'Be kind to people Mahoud'

Last words of the prophet Mohammed.

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I am saying that the extremists are not the mainstream.

;D


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I have said this over and over

Yes spot, we noticed that you post on autopilot.


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but you dont want o hear it because then you wouldn't be justified in being scared all the time

Spot it is you who argued we mustn't criticise them in case they blow something up.


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I am also saying that what you call; terrorists have been provoked by the "wars" and the push for oil.

Do you call them terrorists too? Or would that risk provoking them?

Liar

SOB

What am I lying about now spot?