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General Discussion >> Technically Speaking >> When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1341807797 Message started by Mutawintji on Jul 9th, 2012 at 2:23pm |
Title: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Mutawintji on Jul 9th, 2012 at 2:23pm
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Around 10 million years ago (mya) The tectonic plate that Africa floats on split in two. This is known today as the 'Great Rift Valley'. The split was vast and deep, stretching from todays Syria in the North down to todays Mozambique in the South. All of Africa's Lakes are now located on this rift, some nearly 2 klm deep. The rift is around 6000 kilometres long. Prior to the rift the whole area was covered in rainforest and along with thousands of other species was occupied by a species of Lemur like primates. The primates ended up on both sides of the rift. The side we are concerned with suffered a severe climate change resulting in a shift towards more arid conditions. Trees became sparser and further apart. The primates stranded on the arid side of the rift already had developed a partially upright posture for walking along tree branches. This 'selection' now enabled them to walk upright between clumps of forest that were becoming separated by open grassy plain. They are known as Australopithicus Afarensis ... but you have probably heard of them by the most complete specimen found 'Lucy' |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Mutawintji on Jul 9th, 2012 at 2:24pm
Our modern Brain today operates with 3 very simple concepts (simple is probably the wrong word )
1.. First concept you need for a modern brain: The ability to cross connect ideas. What does this mean. Here is a simple test. If I ask you: 'What is the difference between a stone and a branch ?' You could correctly reply: 'They are 2 entirely different compounds' 'What is the difference between a bone and water ?' 'Why you idiot they are 2 entirely different compounds' What is the difference between water and sand ? 'You numbskull ... they are 2 different compounds 'OK .. what is the difference between Water and Ice ?' Did you pause ? ... thats because you made a cross connection in your brain. Lucy could not do this ... she would have replied that water and ice are 2 entirely different compounds. Her brain was smaller, (specifically her memory banks) not much bigger than a chimps. This was not her fault, the neurons required to cross connect the paths in her memory had not yet evolved. She was doing the best she could ... She was our ancestor ! She felt pain, loss, grief, happiness, and she loved ... but she did not know why !! She would never leave Africa, she had no need to. 2.5 million years ago (mya) she and her kind disappeared from the fossil record. Now, in the fossil record four new contenders for a modern brain appear. Homo Rudolfensis. Australopithicus Gahri Australopithicus Africanus Homo Habilus (Handyman) Lets leave out the first 3 and just talk about Handyman. He was just a little guy, only coming up to our waist ... bullied and pushed out of the good territories. The only way he could get food was to scavenge and keep out of everyone else's way. He made an incredible discovery ... He did this because he was incredibly curious, starvation makes you investigate every possible source. (his memory banks were larger than Lucys) By waiting his turn, until all the other predators had left the kill site, he collected the bones. Using rocks he smashed open the bones in a safe location and feasted on the marrow. He was the only, and the first, creature that worked this out. Marrow and Brain are made from the same matter. He had found a continuous source of food, easily collected. His brain, owing to this rich diet of pure brain matter grew in size and the cross connections grew with it. The single leg bone of a Giraffe can contain 10kgs of marrow ! He was the first of our ancestors to make cross connections. He had made a connection between Stone and Bone to release food. They were 2 different compounds but in some way that he did not really understand, they were connected. Even tho he was only a little, small timid curious fellow, he now stood tall amongst all others. He could organise, and he did. Working like a trained commando unit, they would throw rocks at Lions and Hyenas that had made a fresh kill. The lions were bigger and stronger, but they were frightened by the swarm of Handyman and missiles approaching. He would never set foot outside of Africa, he had no need to. He disappears from the fossil record about 1.8 mya. |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Mutawintji on Jul 9th, 2012 at 2:27pm
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2.. Second Concept you need for a modern brain: The ability to entertain a notion What does this mean. Here is a simple example. What do you think when you see a footprint in, for example, dried mud ? 'Why, some creature of type such-and-such passed this way, everyone knows that !' But not everyone knows that at all. No other creature that walks the earth, swims in the sea, flies in the air, knows that. Only YOU know that!! A Lion can certainly follow tracks ... but he does it by smell, molecules of the original creature that made the tracks remain in the footprint. The Lion in fact smells the creature. But once the smell has gone, the footprints mean no more to the Lion than any other feature in his landscape. No other creature on the Earth can discern a footprint. Only YOU. Why ? Because you can entertain a notion. A Notion is no more than the ability to make a whole series of cross connections and picture a single sequential event. 'A big phuk*n Bear passed here going thatta way. me very scared!!' A footprint cannot elicit fear, elation or any other emotion in any other creature except US. We can entertain a notion. When Handyman disappeared from the fossil record around 1.8 mya a new Species appeared. Homo Ergaster, possibly Homo Erectus. Presently there are many unresolved questions surrounding these 2 and it may be they were a single species. For our purposes lets use Homo Ergaster. Homo Ergaster, like Handyman, could make cross connections, he also had a much bigger brain than Handyman. As well he was the first of our ancestors that was relatively hairless and he had sweat glands in place of hair follicles (another DNA spelling mistake that turned to his advantage) He could sweat. This was an enormous advantage, it meant he could pass thru inhospitable terrain to reach another place and remain cool on the way. As well he was the first to have a DNA mutation that gave whites to his eyes. This defect he learnt to use as a communication device, a look here, a glance there, and his hunting buddies knew how to react. The climate was right. Some Homo Ergaster remained in Africa, others left and travelled across the Northern continents as far as China, settling territory as they went. They were very successful. Homo Ergaster had the ability to make cross connections. Homo Ergaster had the ability to group these cross connections into Notions. This gave him the ability to venture way beyond his environment. Millions of species can venture beyond their birthplaces, insects, fish, ants, all sorts. But big complex creatures require huge support systems to do this. Dinosaurs did it and so did Ergaster. He crafted Handymans stone bone breaking rocks into jewelled masterpieces. And he carried them with him as support systems. Homo Ergaster disappeared from the fossil record around 1 mya. Some radical proposals are that they are still around in our DNA .. but this is not mainstream thinking. . |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Mutawintji on Jul 9th, 2012 at 2:30pm
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3.. Third Concept you need for a modern brain: IMAGINATION What does this mean. Lets use an easy explanation. Firstly we can cross connect apparently unrelated events or objects, we can group these events or objects into notions. Imagination is nothing more, nor less, than the ability to create notions that DO NOT EXIST in reality. Picturing footprints that you have not seen. Going on a successful Hunt, only in your mind .... and then .... communicating it to others .. and carrying it out. Looking at a massive gorge in a Mountain range and deducing that it looks similar to a Snake Trail... ergo ... A Dreamtime serpent made this gorge when he crawled thru here. Explaining events that have no explanation using your existing notions. Becoming Spiritual, religious ... this is Imagination. For this you need a very BIG Brain with HEAPS and HEAPS of memory space. Homo Ergaster did not have imagination. He did not develop jewellery, art work, religion, sophisticated burials ... His tools were masterpieces, but he did not know that ... for him they were purely functional. You could not tell Ergaster a joke ... imaginary notions were not part of his brain process. But the two descendants of Ergaster could do this. Neanderthal in a limited way. Homo Sapiens in a limitless way. When Homo Ergaster disappeared from Africa we find the first fossils of Homo Sapiens. When Homo Ergaster disappeared from the rest of the occupied world we find the first fossil of Neanderthal. An Ice age descended on Europe and the Northern Hemisphere. Neanderthal adapted to make a living (just) in this environment. The physical requirements for Neanderthal were so hard that his imagination was put on the backburner. But Homo Sapiens was in even Bigger trouble. The water that was being locked up in the glaciers of the northern hemisphere meant that no water was available in Africa. Africa started to dry out. Something had to be done. What did Homo Sapiens do. He died, and he died, and he continued to die. It can be shown that as any species draws towards extinction, the fitness of the remaining population increases. This is inversely proportional. In other words when things get tough, the toughest get going, they are all that remain. Homo Sapiens, our Ancestors, approached extinction until there was only around 300 to 1000 of us left. We know this from our DNA Markers. What did these few, these mighty few do ? They used their imagination. To start with they had to get out. But how, you cannot travel without water, and there was none in the northern escape route. They decided to carry it. Sounds simple. Sounds really simple. Listen, they were the first to ever think of it, no one, no creature had ever had a need to devise such an outlandish thing before. They created water banks, hollowed out ostrich eggs, bark containers, and they fought their way out. They used their imagination to picture a notion that did not exist in reality. ie: water in the desert. Then they followed the coastlines to everywhere ... Some of them never stopped until they reached Australia 60,000 years ago. The record of their journey is contained in their 'Dreamtime'. the dreamtime is not a religion, it is the oral history passed down thru the countless generations so that the descendants may survive. The DNA proof of their journey is that they carry a special DNA marker unique to Australian Aboriginals. This DNA Marker has recently been found, by the human genome project, in 2 citizens of Chennai (Formerly Madras, India). These two citizens were born, and have lived all their lives in Madras, as well as all their forebears for as far back as can be traced. This has been taken to show that the Australian Aboriginal passed that way on his incredible journey. The reason that the Dreamtime is not a religion is that it NEVER makes a prediction for the future, it only tells the story of the journey of man, and the creation of the world. it has no God. It is full of Serpents and creatures of mythical status ... but versions of these creatures exist all around such as snakes and emus and crows and kangaroos. The Dreamtime lays down Dreaming Paths that are followed to this day by Aboriginals on walkabout. There are very good reasons, scientific reasons, why these paths should be followed and certain actions, such as burning, are to be carried out. The Dreamtime is not just the Aboriginal story, it is ours, yours and mine too. When you have the 3 things required for a modern brain ... you can legitimately say that you are SAPIENT (homo sapiens) Today we are starting to realise that their are many other species that show degrees of Sapience. Nearly all of them are mammals, whales, bears, dolphins, etc. The species that are not mammals but have some degree of Sapience are the Octopus, Squid, Cuttlefish and possibly those last remaining dinosaurs ... the birds Zac da Black. |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Kat on Jul 9th, 2012 at 2:39pm
Horse-shyt.
Have you been introduced to this-is-the-light yet? You should get on well, you're both delusional. |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Mutawintji on Jul 9th, 2012 at 2:41pm Kat wrote on Jul 9th, 2012 at 2:39pm:
Sorry I missed you ... thanks for leaving your name. Zac da Black Kat wrote on Jul 9th, 2012 at 2:39pm:
PS: No ... not yet ... But I have delusions of grandeur myself .. I believe I'm Zac da Black. |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Mutawintji on Jul 9th, 2012 at 3:02pm
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Is the Family of Man just another species on this Planet, like all the other Species ? Or is their something 'beyond' in man ? Some rare gift that separates us from all the others and makes us special. Other creatures display sentience, agility, skilled abilities with they're natural tools .... claws, teeth, strength, arms, legs, etc. We don't appear to carry any particular trait that is unique to us, and us alone ... every trait we lay claim to appears to be shared by other species to a greater or lesser extent. In nearly every physical endevour, there are other creatures that can outperform us.
We 'think' better than all other species, or do we just think we 'think' better than all other species. We are the only judges of the competition, we award the prizes .... on the face of it we judge ourselves as better thinkers entirely subjectively. All creatures have attributes developed thru natural selection that they excel in. So do we. It appears that ours is a large brain ... but should we award it the ultimate accolade of: 1 .. Separate and distinct entity to our biological self. Almost God given in its mystery. A communal entity. Could not possibly have been created thru a process of random natural selection. Or should we treat it as 2.. A natural evolutionary development... No different to others, received thru no fault or application of our own .... just to take its place and to be used by its owner, the way all other creatures use their attributes. Without fanfare, without fuss .... ?? . |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 9th, 2012 at 3:35pm
I saw a documentary about octopus last year. They are pretty smart creatures.
SOB |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Elvis Wesley on Jul 9th, 2012 at 3:36pm
They're geniuses if we use your intelligence as the benchmark.
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Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by gizmo_2655 on Jul 9th, 2012 at 5:47pm Mutawintji wrote on Jul 9th, 2012 at 3:02pm:
Yep we certainly are... |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by pansi1951 on Jul 9th, 2012 at 7:37pm
Is the Family of Man just another species on this Planet, like all the other Species ?
Who knows? but I wouldn't be conceited enough to say yes we are. The dirt and rib theory is inane. |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by gizmo_2655 on Jul 9th, 2012 at 8:44pm Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 9th, 2012 at 7:37pm:
Why not Pansi??......Do you believe that man is NOT a species from Earth?? |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Elvis Wesley on Jul 10th, 2012 at 10:49am
To suggest that man is just another type of animal is conceited???
Just apes with big brains is all we are. |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Super Nova on Jul 10th, 2012 at 5:39pm ... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 10:49am:
We are just apes with big brains. When I look at other mammals I feel they too have many huiman characteristics. I could tell when my dog was sad. When he was in pain. I have seen monkeys plot and scheme to get food. Work together. They must have an imagination otherwise they could not invent ways to solve problems. We are different, as all animals have some charactistics that enable them to survive. Our brain is more developed for our type of survival strategy.... when survival was ensured by our society we could apply our free time to dealing with other problems. |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Elvis Wesley on Jul 10th, 2012 at 5:42pm Super Nova wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 5:39pm:
I'm not so sure anymore. Many things we do actively work against our survival, both as individuals and collectively. |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Super Nova on Jul 11th, 2012 at 3:04am ... wrote on Jul 10th, 2012 at 5:42pm:
I think I understand your point. Many things are outside our control. A nearby supernova could kill us all. We now need to overcome some of our most basic instincts: 1. Over population - like rabbits we breed at the rate we are designed for. In nature population grows until all resources are unavailable/restricted then they die back to a sustainable population or die out. With no natural preditors to keep our population in check, micro organisms will cull us back or the lack of resources will. Competing for scarce resources (war) could also cull us back. We just consume more and more... something needs to give. We need to overcome this instinct with our bigger brains. 2. War ...etc It will be for resources or ideology. We are a fighting species. When we gave up the hunt, we focused on taking the resources of others. We need to overcome this natural instinct with our bigger brains. 3. Action I don't think there will be real action until something drastic happens. We tend not to react until it's too late. Hope is not a good action plan... our leaders need to get their poo together and start using their bigger brains for something useful. Our short term ideology of the moment will not serve us well into the future. |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Elvis Wesley on Jul 11th, 2012 at 5:46pm
Individually, I was thinking more of things like taking drugs and eating food we know is bad for us.
Collectively, we work ourselves to death. Spend more time in the office than enjoying life. Buy into, and enforce ideologies that place the welfare of strangers above our own. Our priorities have been skewed from what they initially were. For all our "intelligence", we sure are a stupid bunch. |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Super Nova on Jul 11th, 2012 at 6:57pm
We are collectively stupid sometimes.
We are pretty young really. We haven't been out of the trees much more than a million years and civilisation only started after the last ice age. If we don't get killed off we could do great things. As an individual I relate to the waste of my life that is "work". Man I spend my whole life working for others just to feed the family and pay the morgage. However, in past times, I would have spent my whole life chasing or growing food just to survive. Life is all about doing enough to survive and breed. That's it. No higher purpose than that. Sad really. |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Elvis Wesley on Jul 11th, 2012 at 7:08pm Super Nova wrote on Jul 11th, 2012 at 6:57pm:
It's beleived among anthropologists that hunetr gatherer man put as little as 8 hours a week into actually working. Compare that with the 40 hour standard week we put in now that we are "liberated". Pretty much agree about there being no higher purpose. In that respect we're just like the animals, only with the capacity to wish for so much more. in that respect higher intelligence is a curse. Dogs and cats seem pretty happy spedning their whole day sleeping, and I reckon they're onto it. |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Super Nova on Jul 11th, 2012 at 7:29pm
"Dogs and cats seem pretty happy spedning their whole day sleeping, and I reckon they're onto it. "
Yes because they have us to feed them. Would you be happy if someone provided you with food and shelter and you had nothing to do but sleep. That's called the dole or welfare... they generally don't seem happy with fulfilled lives. |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Elvis Wesley on Jul 11th, 2012 at 8:57pm Super Nova wrote on Jul 11th, 2012 at 7:29pm:
That's what "the pack" is for. On a small scale, each contribute and each reap the benefits with a small imbalance between individual members. Cooperation allows more to be accomlished with less effort. But as the size of the pack grows, so too does the imbalance and Where the pack was once a boon, now it is a burden. More and more effort is required for less and less return, until you wonder if you'd be better off breaking from the pack. |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Mutawintji on Jul 12th, 2012 at 7:06am Super Nova wrote on Jul 11th, 2012 at 6:57pm:
Not so sad .. "We were born of risen apes, not fallen angels, and the apes were armed killers besides. And so what shall we wonder at? Our murders and massacres and missiles, and our irreconcilable regiments? Or our treaties whatever they may be worth; our sympathies however seldom they may be played; our peaceful acres, however frequently they may be converted to battlefields; our dreams however rarely they may be accomplished. The miracle of man is not how far he has sunk but how magnificently he has risen. We are known among the stars by our poems, not our corpses." Robert Ardrey (b. 1908-10-16 in Chicago, Illinois; d. 1980-01-14 in South Africa) was an anthropologist, playwright and screenwriter. Zac the Black . |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Super Nova on Jul 12th, 2012 at 8:04pm
"The miracle of man is not how far he has sunk but how magnificently he has risen. We are known among the stars by our poems, not our corpses"
I guess we do the same. We remember our progress and achievements and forget the corpes left behind. An individual life has no real value, only the existence of our species is valued and the progress it makes. |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 13th, 2012 at 6:01am Super Nova wrote on Jul 11th, 2012 at 7:29pm:
Cats sleep 16 hours a day. Even in the wild. They catch a mouse or something to eat then go back to sleep. On the other hand ppl on the dole spend all day sitting in centerlink or standing in queues and filling in forms and what is it now? 10 interviews a week? How is that even possible? They spend time looking for where they are going to sleep tonight and if they have time looking for somewhere to get a feed. SOB |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Super Nova on Jul 13th, 2012 at 9:22pm Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 13th, 2012 at 6:01am:
On the other hand they could not get the dole like in other countries and beg for food or die. Doing something for the money that keeps you alive like, looking to find a way to make a positive contribution to the society that feeds you is not an unreasonable ask. Welfare is not a right it's a priviledge that very few on this planet (as a %) have access to. |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 14th, 2012 at 6:26am Super Nova wrote on Jul 13th, 2012 at 9:22pm:
When would they have time? If you are talking about WFTD then why the heck cant they pay reasonably and call it a job instead of slave labour? SOB |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by aquascoot on Jul 16th, 2012 at 4:14pm
well mutawintji, i certainly enjoyed that and i will be reading that to my kids.
i dont care if its 100 % true , its a damn good story and they need a boost to their imagination that "call of duty" or "the sims" is unlikely to provide. thank you very much for posting |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Mutawintji on Jul 17th, 2012 at 8:42am aquascoot wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 4:14pm:
Well ... thats my second only direct reply on this forum. The first said 'Horse-shyt' ... So obviously I like yours better .... lmao Ta mate ! Zac the black. |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by Mutawintji on Jul 17th, 2012 at 9:05am
Actually .... I like GT5 .... play it all da time .... lmao
Zac da Black |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by bludger on Jul 24th, 2012 at 9:30pm
Homo sapiens aint that smart. Have a look around you. The planet stuffers are really hard at it. What a bunch of morons.
My jack russell is just as bad. :) |
Title: Re: When God said, 'Brains ?' I thought he said Trains Post by MOTR on Aug 15th, 2012 at 3:09am
Enjoyed the opening posts, mutawintji. Thanks.
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