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Message started by perceptions_now on Jul 15th, 2012 at 10:59pm

Title: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 15th, 2012 at 10:59pm
Libs want ban on teaching climate science

A body representing nearly 70,000 Australian scientists has criticised a Queensland Liberal National Party resolution calling for mainstream climate science to be cut from the state's school curriculum.

LNP delegates at the party's state conference passed a motion yesterday calling on Education Minister John-Paul Langbroek to stop the teaching of ''environmental propaganda material, in particular post-normal science about climate change''.

The mover of the motion, Noosa-based LNP member Richard Pearson, attacked ''false prophets who would poison the minds of our children in our schools''.

''Few people understand that the so-called science of climate change is really what can be defined as post-normal science,'' he said, arguing it went beyond traditional understanding of science based on experimentation and falsifiable theories. The motion was passed with overwhelming support.
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Science & Technology Australia chief executive Anna-Maria Arabia said the resolution was ''extremely harmful'' and risked undermining faith in science more broadly.

The central principles of climate science - including that man-made greenhouse gases trap heat in the lower atmosphere and have warmed the planet - are backed by all the world major's scientific academies.

''The message this sends is 'we do not treat the science as an issue of testing ideas, we treat it as a belief system','' Ms Arabia said.

''We shouldn't be telling students that testing ideas is propaganda.''

Queensland Premier Campbell Newman said MPs had not decided whether to act on yesterday's resolution.

''The LNP has its view, but as a parliamentary team we have to represent all of Queensland,'' he said. ''We will always do the right thing by Queenslanders ahead of the LNP.''

Link -
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/national/libs-want-ban-on-teaching-climate-science-20120713-221wj.html
=================================
Some Liberals/Nationals may think science is heresy?

Some may also still think that smoking isn't a cause of cancer?

Both thoughts, would be a mistake!

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 15th, 2012 at 11:56pm
Good. There is no place for concensus run pseudo science.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Kat on Jul 16th, 2012 at 1:26am

They're as loony as those nut-bars in the You-Ess-Eh who
refuse to teach evolution in schools but push the BS and
thoroughly disproven creationist theory.

Why they are given any credence at all is beyond me......

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 16th, 2012 at 6:16am
Show me the "evidence" that smoking causes cancer.

SOB

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by BlOoDy RiPpEr on Jul 16th, 2012 at 7:47am

Kat wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 1:26am:
They're as loony as those nut-bars in the You-Ess-Eh who
refuse to teach evolution in schools but push the BS and
thoroughly disproven creationist theory.

Why they are given any credence at all is beyond me......

Even science requires creation.

What came first, the chicken or the egg?

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 16th, 2012 at 8:27am

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 7:47am:

Kat wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 1:26am:
They're as loony as those nut-bars in the You-Ess-Eh who
refuse to teach evolution in schools but push the BS and
thoroughly disproven creationist theory.

Why they are given any credence at all is beyond me......

Even science requires creation.

What came first, the chicken or the egg?


It doesnt "require" anything.

SOB

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by BlOoDy RiPpEr on Jul 16th, 2012 at 8:50am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 8:27am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 7:47am:

Kat wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 1:26am:
They're as loony as those nut-bars in the You-Ess-Eh who
refuse to teach evolution in schools but push the BS and
thoroughly disproven creationist theory.

Why they are given any credence at all is beyond me......

Even science requires creation.

What came first, the chicken or the egg?


It doesnt "require" anything.

SOB

then how did it come to be?

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 16th, 2012 at 9:09am

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 8:50am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 8:27am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 7:47am:

Kat wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 1:26am:
They're as loony as those nut-bars in the You-Ess-Eh who
refuse to teach evolution in schools but push the BS and
thoroughly disproven creationist theory.

Why they are given any credence at all is beyond me......

Even science requires creation.

What came first, the chicken or the egg?


It doesnt "require" anything.

SOB

then how did it come to be?


Who cares? We dont know yet - cant you handle not knowing?

SOB

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by BlOoDy RiPpEr on Jul 16th, 2012 at 9:15am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 9:09am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 8:50am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 8:27am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 7:47am:

Kat wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 1:26am:
They're as loony as those nut-bars in the You-Ess-Eh who
refuse to teach evolution in schools but push the BS and
thoroughly disproven creationist theory.

Why they are given any credence at all is beyond me......

Even science requires creation.

What came first, the chicken or the egg?


It doesnt "require" anything.

SOB

then how did it come to be?


Who cares? We dont know yet - cant you handle not knowing?

SOB

I have already faced the fact there has to be a God.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 16th, 2012 at 9:44am

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 9:15am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 9:09am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 8:50am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 8:27am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 7:47am:

Kat wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 1:26am:
They're as loony as those nut-bars in the You-Ess-Eh who
refuse to teach evolution in schools but push the BS and
thoroughly disproven creationist theory.

Why they are given any credence at all is beyond me......

Even science requires creation.

What came first, the chicken or the egg?


It doesnt "require" anything.

SOB

then how did it come to be?


Who cares? We dont know yet - cant you handle not knowing?

SOB

I have already faced the fact there has to be a God.


Haha i guess thats a "no" then.

SOB

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by NBNMyths on Jul 16th, 2012 at 10:07am

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 9:15am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 9:09am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 8:50am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 8:27am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 7:47am:

Kat wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 1:26am:
They're as loony as those nut-bars in the You-Ess-Eh who
refuse to teach evolution in schools but push the BS and
thoroughly disproven creationist theory.

Why they are given any credence at all is beyond me......

Even science requires creation.

What came first, the chicken or the egg?


It doesnt "require" anything.

SOB

then how did it come to be?


Who cares? We dont know yet - cant you handle not knowing?

SOB

I have already faced the fact there has to be a God.


If there is a God, where did s/he come from? Even a God requires creation.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by BlOoDy RiPpEr on Jul 16th, 2012 at 10:17am
Nice attempt to twist it. Bust it is science that requires creation, God does not. God is about faith. how was God Created, I'm afraid God has not disclosed that information not to my knowledge anyway. Maybe its something you need to ask of God. There might be an answer to it, was God created? Maybe..

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by longweekend58 on Jul 16th, 2012 at 7:30pm

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 7:47am:

Kat wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 1:26am:
They're as loony as those nut-bars in the You-Ess-Eh who
refuse to teach evolution in schools but push the BS and
thoroughly disproven creationist theory.

Why they are given any credence at all is beyond me......

Even science requires creation.

What came first, the chicken or the egg?


The Big Bang Theory still has the 'what happened before?' question that remains unanswered. Equating the Big Bang with Creation is hardly a massive step and does not in any way preclude God.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by longweekend58 on Jul 16th, 2012 at 7:31pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 9:44am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 9:15am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 9:09am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 8:50am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 8:27am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 7:47am:

Kat wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 1:26am:
They're as loony as those nut-bars in the You-Ess-Eh who
refuse to teach evolution in schools but push the BS and
thoroughly disproven creationist theory.

Why they are given any credence at all is beyond me......

Even science requires creation.

What came first, the chicken or the egg?


It doesnt "require" anything.

SOB

then how did it come to be?


Who cares? We dont know yet - cant you handle not knowing?

SOB

I have already faced the fact there has to be a God.


Haha i guess thats a "no" then.

SOB


SOB, not everybody else proclaims their ignorance and stupidty and calls it a virtue.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by longweekend58 on Jul 16th, 2012 at 7:34pm

NBNMyths wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 10:07am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 9:15am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 9:09am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 8:50am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 8:27am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 7:47am:

Kat wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 1:26am:
They're as loony as those nut-bars in the You-Ess-Eh who
refuse to teach evolution in schools but push the BS and
thoroughly disproven creationist theory.

Why they are given any credence at all is beyond me......

Even science requires creation.

What came first, the chicken or the egg?


It doesnt "require" anything.

SOB

then how did it come to be?


Who cares? We dont know yet - cant you handle not knowing?

SOB

I have already faced the fact there has to be a God.


If there is a God, where did s/he come from? Even a God requires creation.


why? if time is just a creation then the question becomes pointless. The notion of 'when' is not more than 'existsance'. Why do you think God Himself refers to Himself as 'I Am', rather than something with temporal connotations?

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Dnarever on Jul 16th, 2012 at 7:38pm
LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?

John Howard led the Liberals back to the 1950's where they felt comfortable. After he went they toyed with leaders to take them into the future which ended up as a failed experiment and they went back to Abbnott and the more modern 1960's.

They are almost ready for a moon landing in a few years so don't be too tough on them.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by longweekend58 on Jul 16th, 2012 at 7:55pm

Dnarever wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 7:38pm:
LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?

John Howard led the Liberals back to the 1950's where they felt comfortable. After he went they toyed with leaders to take them into the future which ended up as a failed experiment and they went back to Abbnott and the more modern 1960's.

They are almost ready for a moon landing in a few years so don't be too tough on them.


and as always... you forget that the people (I know labor apologists tend to ignore the wishes of actual voters) voted for him 4 times as PM. So far thats 4 times more than Gillard (0 times).

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 17th, 2012 at 10:53pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 7:34pm:

NBNMyths wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 10:07am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 9:15am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 9:09am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 8:50am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 8:27am:

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 7:47am:

Kat wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 1:26am:
They're as loony as those nut-bars in the You-Ess-Eh who
refuse to teach evolution in schools but push the BS and
thoroughly disproven creationist theory.

Why they are given any credence at all is beyond me......

Even science requires creation.

What came first, the chicken or the egg?


It doesnt "require" anything.

SOB

then how did it come to be?


Who cares? We dont know yet - cant you handle not knowing?

SOB

I have already faced the fact there has to be a God.


If there is a God, where did s/he come from? Even a God requires creation.


why? if time is just a creation then the question becomes pointless. The notion of 'when' is not more than 'existsance'. Why do you think God Himself refers to Himself as 'I Am', rather than something with temporal connotations?


Everything that has ever and will ever happen, is pre-determined, is part of the great plan and therefore choice and freedom of thought, are just an illusion.

There is no god, chaos is the only universal rule and our choices will determine the future of humanity.

Which is more difficult to believe?
Which is more unpalatable?

A dilemma, no doubt!


But, all of which has no bearing on whether Politicians should involve themselves in a witch hunt against the best science of the day, be they Liberal, National, Labor or from The screaming Lord Sutch Party!

But, these LOONS happen to be from the Queensland  LNP and they are suggesting that schools should stop teaching the most widely accepted science on Climate Change, which is set to change to way we live.

THEY ARE LOONS!

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Maqqa on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:56am
Climate change?

We might as well teach witchcraft

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 18th, 2012 at 2:01am
This is why the mann-made catastrophic climate change pseudo science should not be taught in our schools and why we do not want or need a green/labor dicatatorial carbon tax.

Peer-reviewed.
Authors Steirou and Koutsoyiannis, after taking homogenization errors into account find global warming over the past century was only about one-half [0.42°C] of that claimed by the IPCC [0.7-0.8°C].

The above results cast some doubts in the use of homogenization procedures and tend to indicate that the global temperature increase during the last century is between 0.4°C and 0.7°C, where these two values are the estimates derived from raw and adjusted data, respectively.

Conclusions
1. Homogenization is necessary to remove errors introduced in climatic time
series.

2. Homogenization practices used until today are mainly statistical, not well
justified by experiments and are rarely supported by metadata. It can be
argued that they often lead to false results: natural features of hydroclimatic
time series are regarded errors and are adjusted.

3. While homogenization is expected to increase or decrease the existing
multiyear trends in equal proportions, the fact is that in 2/3 of the cases the
trends increased after homogenization.

4. The above results cast some doubts in the use of homogenization procedures
and tend to indicate that the global temperature increase during the
last century is smaller than 0.7-0.8°C.

5. A new approach of the homogenization procedure is needed, based on
experiments, metadata and better comprehension of the stochastic
characteristics of hydroclimatic time series.



http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/17/new-paper-blames-about-half-of-global-warming-on-weather-station-data-homgenization/

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 18th, 2012 at 6:13am

Maqqa wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:56am:
Climate change?

We might as well teach witchcraft


Did you learn any science @ school? If so what kind? Geological? Biological? Astronomical? All? None? Other?

SOB

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Mutawintji on Jul 18th, 2012 at 7:41am

BlOoDy RiPpEr wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 7:47am:
.

Even science requires creation.



Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 16th, 2012 at 8:27am:
.

It doesnt "require" anything.

SOB


I agree.  The vacuum was in a state of thermal equilibrium. Good Science mate !

The vacuum (fundamenatal substance) existed, before spacetime and matter. I don't know for how long but long enough for a number of events to occur.

The gravity of this field is not the gravity of today, where energy and pressure are negligible contributors, but where they are the dominant contributors. Perhaps it could be described as not yet having gone thru the phase transition that separates 'then' from today

These are the governing physics of Gravity ....

Pressure gravitates (adds to the gravitational force).
Pressure can have a negative value.
Positive Pressure makes a Positive contribution to Gravity.
Negative Pressure makes a Negative contribution to Gravity.



If the field has a restless urge to seek the smooth state (thermal equilibrium) then once achieved, its energy value would measure zero, and we would measure zero if we measured its rate of change of this value. We would say metaphysically that we found 'nothing' to measure ? If we arbitrarily raised the value of the whole field uniformly, or lowered it uniformly, we would still measure zero/zero across the field. The field when still (or smooth) is contributing the least possible energy it can.

In the electro-weak theory, above 10^15 degrees this field has an average value of zero, all fundamental matter particles are mass-less and all force particles are mass-less as well.

Above 10^28 degrees (grand unified Higgs) photons, gluons, W and Z particles can all be freely interchanged with no observable consequence. Total symmetry. So as the universe cools the field goes thru phase transitions that break symmetry.

Guth was working on the monopole problem, a separate problem, when he found that his calculations were describing a period of inflation. Also many others working independently came across inflation, especially behind the iron-curtain, but initially they lagged behind. Because firstly, they didn't fully appreciate that it solved many other problems, horizon, flatness, etc, but also it had a serious problem itself. If you don't know what the problem is, I'll try to explain it.

In 'seeking a smooth state', it became implicit that a less smooth-state must be allowed. This can be explained by QM, but I digress. As the field goes from un-smooth (is there such a word .. ?) to smooth, equations exist that define the shape of the 'energy bowl', which in its smoothest state would have the field values at the lowest part of the bowl, just as water would settle in a bowl. As the field rolls down the bowl Guth was trying to understand what phase transitions occur (humps in the bowl), fast, slow, could it become stuck, could it be delayed, etc. he thought this was relevant to the monopole problem.

The fields previous random QM fluctuations (un-smooth) have caused the field to cool slightly, this is why its descending to the bottom of the bowl.

Random QM fluctuations now govern the wave front, values may be high here, low over there, but on average the wave front is descending smoothly. Guth discovered that the average value could plataeu momentarily. As the universe continues to cool the field value becomes hung on this bump or plateau. The field has become supercooled, latent with potential ... or a phase transition. Latent energy is increasing but no observable change is occurring. This suffuses all of space with energy and a uniform negative pressure. The latter was Guth's great insight.

Eventually the supercooled Higgs field values, thru QM fluctuations, jumps down to the lower level (off the plateau). But would it happen everywhere in space at the same time? Guth said no, the relaxation of the field to its zero energy value is a process. It drops to zero value at one point and this starts an outward spreading bubble whose 'walls' move at light speed.

Put more simply, when zero energy is reached at a given point, then this value spreads away from that point at the speed of light, or with the passing of the 'wall'. According to Guth many such bubbles would occur as the field stabilised to zero. But all these bubbles would have to join to form a universe with a zero energy inflaton field and because the space between the bubbles was still uniformly suffused with negative pressure which was driving space apart at many times the speed of light, then the bubbles would most likely never coalesce.

Here's the calculation if your interested


Quote:
.

It is not difficult to see how accelerated expansion arises. One of Einstein's equations is d^2a/ dt^2/ a = -4 pi/ 3(P + 3p) Where a, P, p are scale factors of the universe. Its 'size', the energy density and the pressure density respectively.

Notice that if the right hand side of the equation is positive, the scale factor will grow at an increasing rate: the universe's rate of growth will accelerate with time. For a Higgs field perched on a plateau its pressure density turns out to be equal the negative of its energy density. The same is true for the cosmological constant. And so the right hand side of the equation is indeed positive.


This equation is what drives expansion at an exponential rate.

So ... if the bubbles never coalesce maybe each bubble is a different universe ? No, this turned out to be incorrect. Guth needed the bubble walls to coalesce because, as the field reaches its zero energy value its energy is not lost, but is converted into normal matter and radiation that inhabits it now. In Guths mechanism this conversion occurs as the bubbles collide and coalesce. But insights by Linde and others corrected all this.

New calculations prolonged the initial inflationary burst so that a single bubble grew large enough to encompass the entire observable universe.

But then it was found that you did not need the whole value of the field to plateau. Instead Random QM variations in the value occur across the field the whole time. When they are small or medium, nothing happens and they revert to the void, but when the value is high (eureka) even in an area less than 10^-33 cm, a cosmic 'friction' sets in, due, I think, to the latent energy conversion that is occurring at the wavefront between the two values. QM fluctuations are governing the wave front's rate of change. This resistance is consistent and causes the field to roll down the energy bowl slowly. This causes the field to contribute a nearly constant energy and a nearly constant negative pressure.

According to the calculations above, this is exactly what you need to drive a period of inflationary expansion. This is called chaotic inflation, and so far as I know is considered the most convincing. The graph below graphically displays the initial fluctuations of the field


Quote:
Unfortunately I cannot put the graph here as this site requires you to make 40 posts first ....

Perhaps a kind mod would put it here for me ?

sigh .... Zac da Black


The microwave cosmic background radiation is around 2.7 k but it does vary. But not till around the fourth decimal point.

So if you measure the temp difference between 2 points in space you will get variations up to 1/10000 of a degree (photons have had to travel thru more and less dense gravitational areas and their energy varies depending on the gravitational fields they have had to overcome)

Using the CMBR (cosmic microwave background radiation) as a 'fossilised record' inflationary theory graphed and predicted the temp variations across a region of space and this graph exactly matches the COBE satellite and WMAP satellite temp measurements.

The long predicted Higgs boson has now been experimentally found ... The Higgs field exists.

I agree wif dat cat wif da one eye ... Spot ON Borg !!

Zac da Black


Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by tonegunman1 on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:04am
Science is fixed...our understanding of it is not.
To say that our understanding of science does not require questioning...is just as "looney" as those who say things like people want to burn science at the stake. These attitudes show, if anything, a disrespect and ignorance of science. Science is built around the questioning of what is "known" and disproving and confirming hypotheses. Majority does not rule or rule indefinitely. Science often swaps majority and minority opinions even where those minority opinions have at one time been ridiculed by the majority. If you just want science as it stands to be accepted, because you agree with it, then what you have is religion not science.


Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:09am

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:04am:
Science is fixed...our understanding of it is not.
To say that our understanding of science does not require questioning...is just as "looney" as those who say things like people want to burn science at the stake. These attitudes show, if anything, a disrespect and ignorance of science. Science is built around the questioning of what is "known" and disproving and confirming hypotheses. Majority does not rule or rule indefinitely. Science often swaps majority and minority opinions even where those minority opinions have at one time been ridiculed by the majority. If you just want science as it stands to be accepted, because you agree with it, then what you have is religion not science.


It seems a lot of ppl here think you should know everything and if you dont then you are stupid. Luckily scientists dont think that way. Luckily its not mainstream either.

SOB

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by tonegunman1 on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:56am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:09am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:04am:
Science is fixed...our understanding of it is not.
To say that our understanding of science does not require questioning...is just as "looney" as those who say things like people want to burn science at the stake. These attitudes show, if anything, a disrespect and ignorance of science. Science is built around the questioning of what is "known" and disproving and confirming hypotheses. Majority does not rule or rule indefinitely. Science often swaps majority and minority opinions even where those minority opinions have at one time been ridiculed by the majority. If you just want science as it stands to be accepted, because you agree with it, then what you have is religion not science.


It seems a lot of ppl here think you should know everything and if you dont then you are stupid. Luckily scientists dont think that way. Luckily its not mainstream either.

SOB


Even the greatest mind never gets to know anything close to everything.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 18th, 2012 at 10:36am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:09am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:04am:
Science is fixed...our understanding of it is not.
To say that our understanding of science does not require questioning...is just as "looney" as those who say things like people want to burn science at the stake. These attitudes show, if anything, a disrespect and ignorance of science. Science is built around the questioning of what is "known" and disproving and confirming hypotheses. Majority does not rule or rule indefinitely. Science often swaps majority and minority opinions even where those minority opinions have at one time been ridiculed by the majority. If you just want science as it stands to be accepted, because you agree with it, then what you have is religion not science.


It seems a lot of ppl here think you should know everything and if you dont then you are stupid. Luckily scientists dont think that way. Luckily its not mainstream either.

SOB

Science is not done by consensus, it is done via skepticism and empirical data. The catastrophic climate  pseudo science is done via gate-keeping, homogenized data, non-empirical data and jump on the weather is climate band wagon.


http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1342357146/19#19

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 18th, 2012 at 11:01am

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 10:36am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:09am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:04am:
Science is fixed...our understanding of it is not.
To say that our understanding of science does not require questioning...is just as "looney" as those who say things like people want to burn science at the stake. These attitudes show, if anything, a disrespect and ignorance of science. Science is built around the questioning of what is "known" and disproving and confirming hypotheses. Majority does not rule or rule indefinitely. Science often swaps majority and minority opinions even where those minority opinions have at one time been ridiculed by the majority. If you just want science as it stands to be accepted, because you agree with it, then what you have is religion not science.


It seems a lot of ppl here think you should know everything and if you dont then you are stupid. Luckily scientists dont think that way. Luckily its not mainstream either.

SOB

Science is not done by consensus, it is done via skepticism and empirical data. The catastrophic climate  pseudo science is done via gate-keeping, homogenized data, non-empirical data and jump on the weather is climate band wagon.


http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1342357146/19#19



tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:04am:
Science is fixed...our understanding of it is not.
To say that our understanding of science does not require questioning...is just as "looney" as those who say things like people want to burn science at the stake. These attitudes show, if anything, a disrespect and ignorance of science. Science is built around the questioning of what is "known" and disproving and confirming hypotheses. Majority does not rule or rule indefinitely. Science often swaps majority and minority opinions even where those minority opinions have at one time been ridiculed by the majority. If you just want science as it stands to be accepted, because you agree with it, then what you have is religion not science.


I agree that we teach, what is thought to be the best "known knowledge" at the time AND also teach students to question those "known knowns", thereby proving or disproving those hypotheses!

But, the LNP LOONS are saying, don't teach the best "known known" of our day, which makes it difficult or impossible to test the science behind the theory!


Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Soren on Jul 18th, 2012 at 11:06am
I want the magic back in our lives!!


Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 18th, 2012 at 11:28am

Soren wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 11:06am:
I want the magic back in our lives!!


Well, you may get Politicians, of all persuasions, promising "magic", particularly in their election platforms, but their actual delivery, leaves a lot to be desired!

That said, in the case in question here, LNP Politicians are wanting us to be more into "black magic", rather than the best science & scientific methods, of the day!

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Doctor Jolly on Jul 18th, 2012 at 11:47am

Maqqa wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:56am:
Climate change?

We might as well teach witchcraft



They do.   Its called "religious studies".

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by FriYAY on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:35pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 11:47am:

Maqqa wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:56am:
Climate change?

We might as well teach witchcraft



They do.   Its called "religious studies".


Optional.

Fail.



Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:36pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 6:13am:

Maqqa wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:56am:
Climate change?

We might as well teach witchcraft


Did you learn any science @ school? If so what kind? Geological? Biological? Astronomical? All? None? Other?

SOB


Why would Maqqa &/or these LNP LOONS need to learn, when "they already know how to spin it all"?

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Doctor Jolly on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:40pm

FriYAY wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 11:47am:

Maqqa wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:56am:
Climate change?

We might as well teach witchcraft



They do.   Its called "religious studies".


Optional.


The difference between "religious studies" and "science" as subjects is religion says "this is the way it is, dont question it".   Science says "this is what the science community believes by concensus to be the best explanation of something, but we welcome constructive debate and further research* to prove or disprove it".

Climate change fits this perfectly.

Note * - uneducated, politically driven bloggers dont count.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Soren on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:43pm
SCIENCE as taught in Queensland schools is a "social and cultural activity" that generates explanations of natural phenomenon based on "personal experiences", a view rejected by the nation's deans of science as fundamentally misunderstanding the nature of scientific inquiry.
The description is contained in an overarching statement introducing the syllabus for physics, chemistry and biology for Years 11 and 12 entitled: "A view of science and science education."

"Science is a social and cultural activity through which explanations of natural phenomena are generated," it says.

"Explanations of natural phenomena may be viewed as mental constructions based on personal experiences and result from a range of activities including observation, experimentation, imagination and discussion.

"Accepted scientific concepts, theories and models may be viewed as shared understandings that the scientific community perceive as viable in light of current available evidence."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/education/experimentation-on-the-science-syllabus-puts-feelings-before-facts/story-fn59nlz9-1226422078412

Looks like Komrade Karnal wrote the QLD science and science education curriculum.  No right-winger would come up with such bollocks on stilts.
SO mebbe the QLD science curriculum is way too biased towards the looney left.


Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by FriYAY on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:44pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:40pm:

FriYAY wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 11:47am:

Maqqa wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:56am:
Climate change?

We might as well teach witchcraft



They do.   Its called "religious studies".


Optional.


The difference between "religious studies" and "science" as subjects is religion says "this is the way it is, dont question it".   Science says "this is what the science community believes by concensus to be the best explanation of something, but we welcome constructive debate and further research* to prove or disprove it".

Climate change fits this perfectly.

Note * - uneducated, politically driven bloggers dont count.


So?

The difference is you don’t have to learn religion if you don’t want to. The point I made stands.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:45pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:40pm:

FriYAY wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 11:47am:

Maqqa wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:56am:
Climate change?

We might as well teach witchcraft



They do.   Its called "religious studies".


Optional.


The difference between "religious studies" and "science" as subjects is religion says "this is the way it is, dont question it".   Science says "this is what the science community believes by concensus to be the best explanation of something, but we welcome constructive debate and further research* to prove or disprove it".

Climate change fits this perfectly.

Note * - uneducated, politically driven bloggers dont count.

That is not science at all. That is social studies.

Science says (real science), the empirical evidence tells us we are not wrong or right, for now.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Doctor Jolly on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:50pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:45pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:40pm:

FriYAY wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 11:47am:

Maqqa wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:56am:
Climate change?

We might as well teach witchcraft



They do.   Its called "religious studies".


Optional.


The difference between "religious studies" and "science" as subjects is religion says "this is the way it is, dont question it".   Science says "this is what the science community believes by concensus to be the best explanation of something, but we welcome constructive debate and further research* to prove or disprove it".

Climate change fits this perfectly.

Note * - uneducated, politically driven bloggers dont count.

That is not science at all. That is social studies.

Science says (real science), the empirical evidence tells us we are not wrong or right, for now.


Stop talking our your arse. Science says no such thing.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:52pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:50pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:45pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:40pm:

FriYAY wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 11:47am:

Maqqa wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:56am:
Climate change?

We might as well teach witchcraft



They do.   Its called "religious studies".


Optional.


The difference between "religious studies" and "science" as subjects is religion says "this is the way it is, dont question it".   Science says "this is what the science community believes by concensus to be the best explanation of something, but we welcome constructive debate and further research* to prove or disprove it".

Climate change fits this perfectly.

Note * - uneducated, politically driven bloggers dont count.

That is not science at all. That is social studies.

Science says (real science), the empirical evidence tells us we are not wrong or right, for now.


Stop talking our your arse. Science says no such thing.

Not mann-made catastrophic climate psuedo science. We know this. That is why we need to rid it from our schools.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Doctor Jolly on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:53pm

FriYAY wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:44pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:40pm:

FriYAY wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 11:47am:

Maqqa wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:56am:
Climate change?

We might as well teach witchcraft



They do.   Its called "religious studies".


Optional.


The difference between "religious studies" and "science" as subjects is religion says "this is the way it is, dont question it".   Science says "this is what the science community believes by concensus to be the best explanation of something, but we welcome constructive debate and further research* to prove or disprove it".

Climate change fits this perfectly.

Note * - uneducated, politically driven bloggers dont count.


So?

The difference is you don’t have to learn religion if you don’t want to. The point I made stands.


Very few school subjects are definitive. Maths, Geography maybe since it is abstract from the real world.
Economics is a type of "science". Much like Climate science it has a lot of models that are learnt because they fit the data. Doesnt mean they are 100% accurate.
History is a classic subject where interpretations are plainly evident.

Religious studies is the only one that says "this is what it is, dont question it".  Not for enquiring minds.


Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:58pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:53pm:

FriYAY wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:44pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:40pm:

FriYAY wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 11:47am:

Maqqa wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:56am:
Climate change?

We might as well teach witchcraft



They do.   Its called "religious studies".


Optional.


The difference between "religious studies" and "science" as subjects is religion says "this is the way it is, dont question it".   Science says "this is what the science community believes by concensus to be the best explanation of something, but we welcome constructive debate and further research* to prove or disprove it".

Climate change fits this perfectly.

Note * - uneducated, politically driven bloggers dont count.


So?

The difference is you don’t have to learn religion if you don’t want to. The point I made stands.


Very few school subjects are definitive. Maths, Geography maybe since it is abstract from the real world.
Economics is a type of "science". Much like Climate science it has a lot of models that are learnt because they fit the data. Doesnt mean they are 100% accurate.
History is a classic subject where interpretations are plainly evident.

Religious studies is the only one that says "this is what it is, dont question it".  Not for enquiring minds.

That is exactly what mann-made climate pseudo science is. "this is what it is, dont question it".  Not for enquiring minds.

The gatekeeping in climate science is well documented and well played out in climategate and others.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by tonegunman1 on Jul 18th, 2012 at 1:15pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 11:01am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 10:36am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:09am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:04am:
Science is fixed...our understanding of it is not.
To say that our understanding of science does not require questioning...is just as "looney" as those who say things like people want to burn science at the stake. These attitudes show, if anything, a disrespect and ignorance of science. Science is built around the questioning of what is "known" and disproving and confirming hypotheses. Majority does not rule or rule indefinitely. Science often swaps majority and minority opinions even where those minority opinions have at one time been ridiculed by the majority. If you just want science as it stands to be accepted, because you agree with it, then what you have is religion not science.


It seems a lot of ppl here think you should know everything and if you dont then you are stupid. Luckily scientists dont think that way. Luckily its not mainstream either.

SOB

Science is not done by consensus, it is done via skepticism and empirical data. The catastrophic climate  pseudo science is done via gate-keeping, homogenized data, non-empirical data and jump on the weather is climate band wagon.


http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1342357146/19#19



tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:04am:
Science is fixed...our understanding of it is not.
To say that our understanding of science does not require questioning...is just as "looney" as those who say things like people want to burn science at the stake. These attitudes show, if anything, a disrespect and ignorance of science. Science is built around the questioning of what is "known" and disproving and confirming hypotheses. Majority does not rule or rule indefinitely. Science often swaps majority and minority opinions even where those minority opinions have at one time been ridiculed by the majority. If you just want science as it stands to be accepted, because you agree with it, then what you have is religion not science.


I agree that we teach, what is thought to be the best "known knowledge" at the time AND also teach students to question those "known knowns", thereby proving or disproving those hypotheses!

But, the LNP LOONS are saying, don't teach the best "known known" of our day, which makes it difficult or impossible to test the science behind the theory!



I think this is to stray into generality when the argument, as I understand it, is specific to climate change science.
Certainly climate change is by a long way the best funded but subject to the least rigor. 


Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 18th, 2012 at 1:30pm

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 1:15pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 11:01am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 10:36am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:09am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:04am:
Science is fixed...our understanding of it is not.
To say that our understanding of science does not require questioning...is just as "looney" as those who say things like people want to burn science at the stake. These attitudes show, if anything, a disrespect and ignorance of science. Science is built around the questioning of what is "known" and disproving and confirming hypotheses. Majority does not rule or rule indefinitely. Science often swaps majority and minority opinions even where those minority opinions have at one time been ridiculed by the majority. If you just want science as it stands to be accepted, because you agree with it, then what you have is religion not science.


It seems a lot of ppl here think you should know everything and if you dont then you are stupid. Luckily scientists dont think that way. Luckily its not mainstream either.

SOB

Science is not done by consensus, it is done via skepticism and empirical data. The catastrophic climate  pseudo science is done via gate-keeping, homogenized data, non-empirical data and jump on the weather is climate band wagon.


http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1342357146/19#19



tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:04am:
Science is fixed...our understanding of it is not.
To say that our understanding of science does not require questioning...is just as "looney" as those who say things like people want to burn science at the stake. These attitudes show, if anything, a disrespect and ignorance of science. Science is built around the questioning of what is "known" and disproving and confirming hypotheses. Majority does not rule or rule indefinitely. Science often swaps majority and minority opinions even where those minority opinions have at one time been ridiculed by the majority. If you just want science as it stands to be accepted, because you agree with it, then what you have is religion not science.


I agree that we teach, what is thought to be the best "known knowledge" at the time AND also teach students to question those "known knowns", thereby proving or disproving those hypotheses!

But, the LNP LOONS are saying, don't teach the best "known known" of our day, which makes it difficult or impossible to test the science behind the theory!



I think this is to stray into generality when the argument, as I understand it, is specific to climate change science.
Certainly climate change is by a long way the best funded but subject to the least rigor. 


I would suggest there is much more rigor in Climate Science, than there is in the thinking of these LNP LOONS!

And, if the best current "known knowledge" on Climate Change, turns out to be correct, then we will need to throw everything at the problem and I mean everything!


Perhaps, we could build a wall, to keep out the worst effects?
Made of Looney Politicians?
Yes, I know, only (half) joking?

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 18th, 2012 at 1:35pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:58pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:53pm:

FriYAY wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:44pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:40pm:

FriYAY wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 11:47am:

Maqqa wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:56am:
Climate change?

We might as well teach witchcraft



They do.   Its called "religious studies".


Optional.


The difference between "religious studies" and "science" as subjects is religion says "this is the way it is, dont question it".   Science says "this is what the science community believes by concensus to be the best explanation of something, but we welcome constructive debate and further research* to prove or disprove it".

Climate change fits this perfectly.

Note * - uneducated, politically driven bloggers dont count.


So?

The difference is you don’t have to learn religion if you don’t want to. The point I made stands.


Very few school subjects are definitive. Maths, Geography maybe since it is abstract from the real world.
Economics is a type of "science". Much like Climate science it has a lot of models that are learnt because they fit the data. Doesnt mean they are 100% accurate.
History is a classic subject where interpretations are plainly evident.

Religious studies is the only one that says "this is what it is, dont question it".  Not for enquiring minds.

That is exactly what mann-made climate pseudo science is. "this is what it is, dont question it".  Not for enquiring minds.

The gatekeeping in climate science is well documented and well played out in climategate and others.


This is full of more solid -
Credible
Reliable
Abundant
Paradoxes

Fortunately, there is a great deal of solid scientific rigor going into Climate science!

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Doctor Jolly on Jul 18th, 2012 at 1:37pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:58pm:
The gatekeeping in climate science is well documented and well played out in climategate and others.


You could not be further from the truth if you tried.

It may keep you out, but its by the same logic that you are kept out of nuclear science, rocket science, and anything sharp and dangerous.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 18th, 2012 at 2:31pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 1:37pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 12:58pm:
The gatekeeping in climate science is well documented and well played out in climategate and others.


You could not be further from the truth if you tried.

It may keep you out, but its by the same logic that you are kept out of nuclear science, rocket science, and anything sharp and dangerous.

If I were a skeptic climate scientist, you would be right on the money.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by tonegunman1 on Jul 18th, 2012 at 2:43pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 1:30pm:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 1:15pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 11:01am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 10:36am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:09am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:04am:
Science is fixed...our understanding of it is not.
To say that our understanding of science does not require questioning...is just as "looney" as those who say things like people want to burn science at the stake. These attitudes show, if anything, a disrespect and ignorance of science. Science is built around the questioning of what is "known" and disproving and confirming hypotheses. Majority does not rule or rule indefinitely. Science often swaps majority and minority opinions even where those minority opinions have at one time been ridiculed by the majority. If you just want science as it stands to be accepted, because you agree with it, then what you have is religion not science.


It seems a lot of ppl here think you should know everything and if you dont then you are stupid. Luckily scientists dont think that way. Luckily its not mainstream either.

SOB

Science is not done by consensus, it is done via skepticism and empirical data. The catastrophic climate  pseudo science is done via gate-keeping, homogenized data, non-empirical data and jump on the weather is climate band wagon.


http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1342357146/19#19



tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:04am:
Science is fixed...our understanding of it is not.
To say that our understanding of science does not require questioning...is just as "looney" as those who say things like people want to burn science at the stake. These attitudes show, if anything, a disrespect and ignorance of science. Science is built around the questioning of what is "known" and disproving and confirming hypotheses. Majority does not rule or rule indefinitely. Science often swaps majority and minority opinions even where those minority opinions have at one time been ridiculed by the majority. If you just want science as it stands to be accepted, because you agree with it, then what you have is religion not science.


I agree that we teach, what is thought to be the best "known knowledge" at the time AND also teach students to question those "known knowns", thereby proving or disproving those hypotheses!

But, the LNP LOONS are saying, don't teach the best "known known" of our day, which makes it difficult or impossible to test the science behind the theory!



I think this is to stray into generality when the argument, as I understand it, is specific to climate change science.
Certainly climate change is by a long way the best funded but subject to the least rigor. 


I would suggest there is much more rigor in Climate Science, than there is in the thinking of these LNP LOONS!

And, if the best current "known knowledge" on Climate Change, turns out to be correct, then we will need to throw everything at the problem and I mean everything!


Perhaps, we could build a wall, to keep out the worst effects?
Made of Looney Politicians?
Yes, I know, only (half) joking?


To be fair the Labs and greens have introduced a carbon tax to prevent this senario caused by our use (mostly) of fossil fuel ...however their methods are a little strange considering if anyone has access to the best available science its our own government.
It does not apply to petrol that releases CO2...major emitter. This leaves mostly (evil) coal that Gillard and Co are happy to dig up at record levels to be sent overseas to be burnt and where it will emit CO2...no charge for this CO2, or perhaps coal does not expel CO2 when burnt outside Australia or does not have any impact on the environment. Domestic consumers will be charged extra for coal fired power but will be more than compensated at the level of being better off (so the story goes) for using that power. Some would say that's not much incentive. We do have land clearing legislation because trees and vegetation store carbon but God help any vegetation that sits atop a coal seam or a development. However we have a global atmosphere where our climate does not retain the benefits of domestic CO2 reductions so I'm not sure how any of this will avert global climate change. And I am also not sure how any of this will save us regardless.

Case in point world coal consumption from 1990 to 2030 has coal going from about 70 quadrillion Btu to about 180 quadrillion Btu (most growth from China).

And oil (most growth from non-OECD countries)...
From 1996 to 2012 - about 4 mb/d to about 25 mb/d.

So whether your right or wrong there is no salvation for you in the figures on the "consensus" view.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 18th, 2012 at 8:08pm

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 2:43pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 1:30pm:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 1:15pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 11:01am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 10:36am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:09am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:04am:
Science is fixed...our understanding of it is not.
To say that our understanding of science does not require questioning...is just as "looney" as those who say things like people want to burn science at the stake. These attitudes show, if anything, a disrespect and ignorance of science. Science is built around the questioning of what is "known" and disproving and confirming hypotheses. Majority does not rule or rule indefinitely. Science often swaps majority and minority opinions even where those minority opinions have at one time been ridiculed by the majority. If you just want science as it stands to be accepted, because you agree with it, then what you have is religion not science.


It seems a lot of ppl here think you should know everything and if you dont then you are stupid. Luckily scientists dont think that way. Luckily its not mainstream either.

SOB

Science is not done by consensus, it is done via skepticism and empirical data. The catastrophic climate  pseudo science is done via gate-keeping, homogenized data, non-empirical data and jump on the weather is climate band wagon.


http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1342357146/19#19



tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:04am:
Science is fixed...our understanding of it is not.
To say that our understanding of science does not require questioning...is just as "looney" as those who say things like people want to burn science at the stake. These attitudes show, if anything, a disrespect and ignorance of science. Science is built around the questioning of what is "known" and disproving and confirming hypotheses. Majority does not rule or rule indefinitely. Science often swaps majority and minority opinions even where those minority opinions have at one time been ridiculed by the majority. If you just want science as it stands to be accepted, because you agree with it, then what you have is religion not science.


I agree that we teach, what is thought to be the best "known knowledge" at the time AND also teach students to question those "known knowns", thereby proving or disproving those hypotheses!

But, the LNP LOONS are saying, don't teach the best "known known" of our day, which makes it difficult or impossible to test the science behind the theory!



I think this is to stray into generality when the argument, as I understand it, is specific to climate change science.
Certainly climate change is by a long way the best funded but subject to the least rigor. 


I would suggest there is much more rigor in Climate Science, than there is in the thinking of these LNP LOONS!

And, if the best current "known knowledge" on Climate Change, turns out to be correct, then we will need to throw everything at the problem and I mean everything!


Perhaps, we could build a wall, to keep out the worst effects?
Made of Looney Politicians?
Yes, I know, only (half) joking?


To be fair the Labs and greens have introduced a carbon tax to prevent this senario caused by our use (mostly) of fossil fuel ...however their methods are a little strange considering if anyone has access to the best available science its our own government.
It does not apply to petrol that releases CO2...major emitter. This leaves mostly (evil) coal that Gillard and Co are happy to dig up at record levels to be sent overseas to be burnt and where it will emit CO2...no charge for this CO2, or perhaps coal does not expel CO2 when burnt outside Australia or does not have any impact on the environment. Domestic consumers will be charged extra for coal fired power but will be more than compensated at the level of being better off (so the story goes) for using that power. Some would say that's not much incentive. We do have land clearing legislation because trees and vegetation store carbon but God help any vegetation that sits atop a coal seam or a development. However we have a global atmosphere where our climate does not retain the benefits of domestic CO2 reductions so I'm not sure how any of this will avert global climate change. And I am also not sure how any of this will save us regardless.

Case in point world coal consumption from 1990 to 2030 has coal going from about 70 quadrillion Btu to about 180 quadrillion Btu (most growth from China).

And oil (most growth from non-OECD countries)...
From 1996 to 2012 - about 4 mb/d to about 25 mb/d.

So whether your right or wrong there is no salvation for you in the figures on the "consensus" view.


To be fair, no matter what Labor may say, their Carbon Tax is primarily a TAX, which is designed to increase government revenues, as Taxes in other areas of the Economy go into decline, which will/is happening at the same time as the usual expenses are increasing, particularly those expenses related to an AGING POPULATION!

The dilemma's of re-balancing of government income/expenditure will continue under the Liberals & Nationals when they win the next election, as there are no magic bullets.

I would also suggest that the salvation you mention is for us, not just me, but given the lack of "Political consensus" on the best current "known knowledge" on Climate Change, which is code for "self interest", I see little chance of any real salvation coming in time, for us!

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Armchair_Politician on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:05pm
Good onya Newman! So sick of the climate change lobby forcing their view down our throats (and those of our children) and screwing over anyone who dares to speak out against their views. Until the facts of this hysteria is proven (I see it as being much like the feared but unrealised Y2K bug) scientifically beyond doubt, it should be treated as and taught to our children as a theory, not gospel.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:42pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:05pm:
Good onya Newman! So sick of the climate change lobby forcing their view down our throats (and those of our children) and screwing over anyone who dares to speak out against their views. Until the facts of this hysteria is proven (I see it as being much like the feared but unrealised Y2K bug) scientifically beyond doubt, it should be treated as and taught to our children as a theory, not gospel.


So, you are agreeing with these LNP LOONS, students should not be taught the best "known knowledge", at this time?

Groan!

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Armchair_Politician on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:46pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:42pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:05pm:
Good onya Newman! So sick of the climate change lobby forcing their view down our throats (and those of our children) and screwing over anyone who dares to speak out against their views. Until the facts of this hysteria is proven (I see it as being much like the feared but unrealised Y2K bug) scientifically beyond doubt, it should be treated as and taught to our children as a theory, not gospel.


So, you are agreeing with these LNP LOONS, students should not be taught the best "known knowledge", at this time?

Groan!


It's far from conclusive. Read about the huge iceberg that broke off a Greenland glacier recently? Scientists for climate change got their panties in a knot claiming it was due to climate change but also said they can't prove it. Groan!

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:52pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:42pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:05pm:
Good onya Newman! So sick of the climate change lobby forcing their view down our throats (and those of our children) and screwing over anyone who dares to speak out against their views. Until the facts of this hysteria is proven (I see it as being much like the feared but unrealised Y2K bug) scientifically beyond doubt, it should be treated as and taught to our children as a theory, not gospel.


So, you are agreeing with these LNP LOONS, students should not be taught the best "known knowledge", at this time?

Groan!

Your so called best known knowledge is far from being ready  (or far from being best)  to be taught in school or to be used by the IPCC who is in fact starting to back track from their catastrophic (political) statements from the past and with a peer-reviewed paper showing their 0.7degree global temp rise over a century, in fact being closer to 0.4.

The climate science today is pure pseudo science, not worthy of educating children with. Never should a pseudo science be taught in school.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:59pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:46pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:42pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:05pm:
Good onya Newman! So sick of the climate change lobby forcing their view down our throats (and those of our children) and screwing over anyone who dares to speak out against their views. Until the facts of this hysteria is proven (I see it as being much like the feared but unrealised Y2K bug) scientifically beyond doubt, it should be treated as and taught to our children as a theory, not gospel.


So, you are agreeing with these LNP LOONS, students should not be taught the best "known knowledge", at this time?

Groan!


It's far from conclusive. Read about the huge iceberg that broke off a Greenland glacier recently? Scientists for climate change got their panties in a knot claiming it was due to climate change but also said they can't prove it. Groan!


Is anything ever conclusive?

The current Climate Change theory is certainly the best scientific "known knowledge", at this time!

That said, IF it or anything else, can't be taught to students, it hasn't got much chance of being proved or disproved!

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Armchair_Politician on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:59pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:52pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:42pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:05pm:
Good onya Newman! So sick of the climate change lobby forcing their view down our throats (and those of our children) and screwing over anyone who dares to speak out against their views. Until the facts of this hysteria is proven (I see it as being much like the feared but unrealised Y2K bug) scientifically beyond doubt, it should be treated as and taught to our children as a theory, not gospel.


So, you are agreeing with these LNP LOONS, students should not be taught the best "known knowledge", at this time?

Groan!

Your so called best known knowledge is far from being ready  (or far from being best)  to be taught in school or to be used by the IPCC who is in fact starting to back track from their catastrophic (political) statements from the past and with a peer-reviewed paper showing their 0.7degree global temp rise over a century, in fact being closer to 0.4.

The climate science today is pure pseudo science, not worthy of educating children with. Never should a pseudo science be taught in school.


Thank goodness they aren't letting Tim Flannery teach our kids anything!

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Armchair_Politician on Jul 18th, 2012 at 10:00pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:59pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:46pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:42pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:05pm:
Good onya Newman! So sick of the climate change lobby forcing their view down our throats (and those of our children) and screwing over anyone who dares to speak out against their views. Until the facts of this hysteria is proven (I see it as being much like the feared but unrealised Y2K bug) scientifically beyond doubt, it should be treated as and taught to our children as a theory, not gospel.


So, you are agreeing with these LNP LOONS, students should not be taught the best "known knowledge", at this time?

Groan!


It's far from conclusive. Read about the huge iceberg that broke off a Greenland glacier recently? Scientists for climate change got their panties in a knot claiming it was due to climate change but also said they can't prove it. Groan!


Is anything ever conclusive?

The current Climate Change theory is certainly the best scientific "known knowledge", at this time!

That said, IF it or anything else, can't be taught to students, it hasn't got much chance of being proved or disproved!


Until it's proven, don't teach it. I fail to see how a theory can stand little chance of being proven because it isn't taught to our kids! Your argument makes no sense whatsoever...

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 18th, 2012 at 10:05pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 10:00pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:59pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:46pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:42pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:05pm:
Good onya Newman! So sick of the climate change lobby forcing their view down our throats (and those of our children) and screwing over anyone who dares to speak out against their views. Until the facts of this hysteria is proven (I see it as being much like the feared but unrealised Y2K bug) scientifically beyond doubt, it should be treated as and taught to our children as a theory, not gospel.


So, you are agreeing with these LNP LOONS, students should not be taught the best "known knowledge", at this time?

Groan!


It's far from conclusive. Read about the huge iceberg that broke off a Greenland glacier recently? Scientists for climate change got their panties in a knot claiming it was due to climate change but also said they can't prove it. Groan!


Is anything ever conclusive?

The current Climate Change theory is certainly the best scientific "known knowledge", at this time!

That said, IF it or anything else, can't be taught to students, it hasn't got much chance of being proved or disproved!


Until it's proven, don't teach it. I fail to see how a theory can stand little chance of being proven because it isn't taught to our kids! Your argument makes no sense whatsoever...

A theory can be taught if it stands with the empirical evidence.

Mann-made climate change only stand by failed models. No empirical evidence stands with it. It must not be taught until the mann-made climate science comes of age and becomes a real science with real empirical evidence and very little gatekeeping.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 18th, 2012 at 10:06pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:52pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:42pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:05pm:
Good onya Newman! So sick of the climate change lobby forcing their view down our throats (and those of our children) and screwing over anyone who dares to speak out against their views. Until the facts of this hysteria is proven (I see it as being much like the feared but unrealised Y2K bug) scientifically beyond doubt, it should be treated as and taught to our children as a theory, not gospel.


So, you are agreeing with these LNP LOONS, students should not be taught the best "known knowledge", at this time?

Groan!

Your so called best known knowledge is far from being ready  (or far from being best)  to be taught in school or to be used by the IPCC who is in fact starting to back track from their catastrophic (political) statements from the past and with a peer-reviewed paper showing their 0.7degree global temp rise over a century, in fact being closer to 0.4.

The climate science today is pure pseudo science, not worthy of educating children with. Never should a pseudo science be taught in school.


It seems you are part of or one of, the LNP LOONS!

The science is certainly far from psuedo, but the Pollies are certainly full of more -
Credible
Reliable
Abundant
Paradoxes


Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 18th, 2012 at 10:14pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 10:05pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 10:00pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:59pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:46pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:42pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:05pm:
Good onya Newman! So sick of the climate change lobby forcing their view down our throats (and those of our children) and screwing over anyone who dares to speak out against their views. Until the facts of this hysteria is proven (I see it as being much like the feared but unrealised Y2K bug) scientifically beyond doubt, it should be treated as and taught to our children as a theory, not gospel.


So, you are agreeing with these LNP LOONS, students should not be taught the best "known knowledge", at this time?

Groan!


It's far from conclusive. Read about the huge iceberg that broke off a Greenland glacier recently? Scientists for climate change got their panties in a knot claiming it was due to climate change but also said they can't prove it. Groan!


Is anything ever conclusive?

The current Climate Change theory is certainly the best scientific "known knowledge", at this time!

That said, IF it or anything else, can't be taught to students, it hasn't got much chance of being proved or disproved!


Until it's proven, don't teach it. I fail to see how a theory can stand little chance of being proven because it isn't taught to our kids! Your argument makes no sense whatsoever...

A theory can be taught if it stands with the empirical evidence.

Mann-made climate change only stand by failed models. No empirical evidence stands with it. It must not be taught until the mann-made climate science comes of age and becomes a real science with real empirical evidence and very little gatekeeping.


1) There is a mountain of evidence, which is why it is widely accepted in scientific circles.

2) Yes, it should be taught, to prove or disprove & to firm up what options, may still be useable to offset the effects of the likely Climate Changes that are coming over the next 10, 20, 50,100, 200 years etc!

As I have said, the Pollies & their helpers are simply full of more -
Credible
Reliable
Abundant
Paradoxes

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 18th, 2012 at 10:25pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 10:14pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 10:05pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 10:00pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:59pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:46pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:42pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:05pm:
Good onya Newman! So sick of the climate change lobby forcing their view down our throats (and those of our children) and screwing over anyone who dares to speak out against their views. Until the facts of this hysteria is proven (I see it as being much like the feared but unrealised Y2K bug) scientifically beyond doubt, it should be treated as and taught to our children as a theory, not gospel.


So, you are agreeing with these LNP LOONS, students should not be taught the best "known knowledge", at this time?

Groan!


It's far from conclusive. Read about the huge iceberg that broke off a Greenland glacier recently? Scientists for climate change got their panties in a knot claiming it was due to climate change but also said they can't prove it. Groan!


Is anything ever conclusive?

The current Climate Change theory is certainly the best scientific "known knowledge", at this time!

That said, IF it or anything else, can't be taught to students, it hasn't got much chance of being proved or disproved!


Until it's proven, don't teach it. I fail to see how a theory can stand little chance of being proven because it isn't taught to our kids! Your argument makes no sense whatsoever...

A theory can be taught if it stands with the empirical evidence.

Mann-made climate change only stand by failed models. No empirical evidence stands with it. It must not be taught until the mann-made climate science comes of age and becomes a real science with real empirical evidence and very little gatekeeping.


1) There is a mountain of evidence, which is why it is widely accepted in scientific circles.

2) Yes, it should be taught, to prove or disprove & to firm up what options, may still be useable to offset the effects of the likely Climate Changes that are coming over the next 10, 20, 50,100, 200 years etc!

As I have said, the Pollies & their helpers are simply full of more -
Credible
Reliable
Abundant
Paradoxes

Mann-made climate science is far from ready to be taught. You teach children what is known, not what is modeled. A best known knowledge is pathetic just by the fact you said it.

The only thing in school to be taught of it is that it is a science that has the capacity of a  5 yr old childs brain and that it is far too early to be taught in depth.

Once you teach it in school, all you are going to do is stifle the science and box it into your now failed ideology. I am sure that is the goal, not doubt at all. It is part of the gatekeeping that goes on in that pathetic ideology.

Why not push for the government to give equal funding to an anti-co2 climate science to come up with the answers. The dogma had well and truly set in, but is being eroded.


Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 18th, 2012 at 10:32pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 10:25pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 10:14pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 10:05pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 10:00pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:59pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:46pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:42pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:05pm:
Good onya Newman! So sick of the climate change lobby forcing their view down our throats (and those of our children) and screwing over anyone who dares to speak out against their views. Until the facts of this hysteria is proven (I see it as being much like the feared but unrealised Y2K bug) scientifically beyond doubt, it should be treated as and taught to our children as a theory, not gospel.


So, you are agreeing with these LNP LOONS, students should not be taught the best "known knowledge", at this time?

Groan!


It's far from conclusive. Read about the huge iceberg that broke off a Greenland glacier recently? Scientists for climate change got their panties in a knot claiming it was due to climate change but also said they can't prove it. Groan!


Is anything ever conclusive?

The current Climate Change theory is certainly the best scientific "known knowledge", at this time!

That said, IF it or anything else, can't be taught to students, it hasn't got much chance of being proved or disproved!


Until it's proven, don't teach it. I fail to see how a theory can stand little chance of being proven because it isn't taught to our kids! Your argument makes no sense whatsoever...

A theory can be taught if it stands with the empirical evidence.

Mann-made climate change only stand by failed models. No empirical evidence stands with it. It must not be taught until the mann-made climate science comes of age and becomes a real science with real empirical evidence and very little gatekeeping.


1) There is a mountain of evidence, which is why it is widely accepted in scientific circles.

2) Yes, it should be taught, to prove or disprove & to firm up what options, may still be useable to offset the effects of the likely Climate Changes that are coming over the next 10, 20, 50,100, 200 years etc!

As I have said, the Pollies & their helpers are simply full of more -
Credible
Reliable
Abundant
Paradoxes

Mann-made climate science is far from ready to be taught. You teach children what is known, not what is modeled. A best known knowledge is pathetic just by the fact you said it.

The only thing in school to be taught of it is that it is a science that has the capacity of a  5 yr old childs brain and that it is far too early to be taught in depth.

Once you teach it in school, all you are going to do is stifle the science and box it into your now failed ideology. I am sure that is the goal, not doubt at all. It is part of the gatekeeping that goes on in that pathetic ideology.

Why not push for the government to give equal funding to an anti-co2 climate science to come up with the answers. The dogma had well and truly set in, but is being eroded.


As I said, more -
Credible
Reliable
Abundant
Paradoxes

All science, at one stage, was a theory, before it became the best scientific "known knowledge", of it's time!

The only dogma that I can see, is that being promoted by "self interest" Pollies!

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 19th, 2012 at 5:56am
You teach children what is known now and how to find out more.

SOB

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 19th, 2012 at 6:36am
The dogma is the BS about some concensus that does not, has not, will not ever exist.

The so called concensus is just made up out of ideology forces and nothing else. Do you even know how the so called concensus was arrived at.

It originated from an endlessly reported 2009 American Geophysical Union (AGU) survey consisting of an intentionally brief two-minute, two question online survey sent to 10,257 earth scientists by two researchers at the University of Illinois. Of the about 3.000 who responded, 82% answered “yes” to the second question, which like the first, most people I know would also have agreed with.

Then of those, only a small subset, just 77 who had been successful in getting more than half of their papers recently accepted by peer-reviewed climate science journals, were considered in their survey statistic. That “98% all scientists” referred to a laughably puny number of 75 of those 77 who answered “yes”.

That anything-but-scientific survey asked two questions. The first: “When compared with pre-1800s levels, do you think that mean global temperatures have generally risen, fallen, or remained relatively constant?” Few would be expected to dispute this…the planet began thawing out of the “Little Ice Age” in the middle 19th century, predating the Industrial Revolution. (That was the coldest period since the last real Ice Age ended roughly 10,000 years ago.)

The second question asked: “Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures?” So what constitutes “significant”? Does “changing” include both cooling and warming… and for both “better” and “worse”? And which contributions…does this include land use changes, such as agriculture and deforestation?


Then we have
Since 1998, more than 31,000 American scientists from diverse climate-related disciplines, including more than 9,000 with Ph.D.s, have signed a public petition announcing their belief that “…there is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate.” Included are atmospheric physicists, botanists, geologists, oceanographers, and meteorologists.


Looks to me the concensus, by numbers, is that mann-made catastrophic climate pseudo science is bunk.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/07/17/that-scientific-global-warming-consensus-not/

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Mutawintji on Jul 19th, 2012 at 6:46am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 5:56am:
You teach children what is known now and how to find out more.

SOB


True !!

The Unseen Forest


An unseen "forest" of microscopic beings fills the upper 200 meters of ocean, exerting an influence on this planet every bit as profound as the forests on land. The diverse phytoplankton species inhabiting the ocean's surface waters--which mainly consist of single-celled cyanobacteria, diatoms and other kinds of algae--form the base of the marine food web.

They account for roughly half the photosynthesis on the earth, remove nearly as much carbon dioxide from the atmosphere as all land plants, and supply about half the oxygen we breathe. Without the activities of these free-floating plantlike organisms, atmospheric carbon dioxide levels would triple.

That phytoplankton could accomplish so much with so little recognition from the general public is surprising [see "The Ocean's Invisible Forest," by Paul Falkowski; Scientific American, August 2002]. Even more remarkable, scientists had no idea which microbial species performed the bulk of these vital functions until 15 years ago, when Sallie W. Chisholm of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Robert J. Olson of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution and other collaborators discovered marine cyanobacteria from the genus they later named Prochlorococcus.

They are the smallest and most numerous photosynthetic organisms known and arguably the most plentiful species on the earth, responsible at times for more than half the photosynthesis in the seas. Cyanobacteria such as Prochlorococcus were the planet's first oxygen-producing creatures and are, in a broad sense, the ancestors of all higher plants.

Scientific American

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Mutawintji on Jul 19th, 2012 at 6:49am
.

It’s a fact: ... plastic debris in the oceans of the world negatively affects phytoplankton. Phytoplankton is the ‘sea-grass’ the microscopic vegetation that forms the basis of the oceanic food chain. It is also responsible for much of the carbon dioxide absorption in the world, making it a crucial element in the carbon balance of the planet.

“Phytoplankton are tiny, single-celled floating plants. They inhabit the upper layers of any natural body of water where there is enough light to support photosynthetic growth. They are the base of the ocean’s food web, and their production helps to regulate the global carbon cycle. They also contribute to the global cycling of many other compounds with climate implications.”

The problem is that plastics are invading the world of phytoplankton. As noted by Marquita K. Hill of the book Understanding Environmental Pollution, “Plastics do not biodegrade, but break up into smaller and smaller pieces, and finally microscopic bits. Even tiny one-celled phytoplankton can absorb these bits.”

This view is supported by a recent study published in the September edition of the Journal of Physical Chemistry entitled: Physical Adsorption of Charged Plastic Nanoparticles Affects Algal Photosynthesis.

“Using a CO2 depletion assay, we show that the adsorption of plastic beads hindered algal photosynthesis, possibly through the physical blockage of light and air flow by the nanoparticles..... Such algal responses to plastic exposure may have implications on the sustainability of the aquatic food chain.”

Zac da Black

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Mutawintji on Jul 19th, 2012 at 6:51am
.

We understand from recent research that phytoplankton has declined some 40 per cent. All the plastic ever made is still with us; most of it in the ocean where it is killing our world. Phytoplankton’s role is carbon dioxide absorption. Rising levels of carbon dioxide acidify the oceans.

“Even more important are the phytoplankton known as diatoms, the base of the marine food chain. “If they go, it would be like having no grass on land, nothing else could survive,” says Ben Halpern, lead author of a map published in 2008 by the University of California, Santa Barbara. The researchers found that over 40 per cent of the world’s oceans are heavily degraded while less than four per cent are relatively pristine.

“We could trigger a mass extinction on a scale not seen for 100 million years,” warns Richard Norris, Professor of Paleobiology at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography. “Ocean acidification is a bigger problem than global warming.”

From: Ocean-borne plastics may be choking off our air supply
By Michelle Stirling-Anosh

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Mutawintji on Jul 19th, 2012 at 6:54am
.
Limitations of Noumena


Our biological limitations of perception and judgement of our physical world need to be understood so we can know the noumena beyond our senses and the fallacies in our judgement.

Our biology determines how we accept or block new ideas, thoughts, and the very paradigms needed to understand reality at its deepest levels. We must overcome our physical and psychological limitations.



Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Armchair_Politician on Jul 19th, 2012 at 6:54am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 5:56am:
You teach children what is known now and how to find out more.

SOB


Except that isn't what Labor is doing. It (man-made climate change) is being taught as fact.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Mutawintji on Jul 19th, 2012 at 6:57am
H.G. Wells

Science is a match that man has just got alight. He thought he was in a room - in a moment of devotion, a temple - and that his light would be reflected from and display walls inscribed with wonderful secrets and pillars carved with philosophical systems wrought into harmony.

It is a curious sensation, now that the preliminary sputter is over and the flame burns up clear, to see his hands lit and just a glimpse of himself and the patch he stands on visible, and around him, in place of all that human comfort and beauty he anticipated.... darkness still.

H.G. Wells, 1891

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Mutawintji on Jul 19th, 2012 at 7:00am
.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 5:56am:
You teach children what is known now and how to find out more.

SOB



Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 6:54am:
Except that isn't what Labor is doing. It (man-made climate change) is being taught as fact.


What part of this fact shouldn't be taught ?

We understand from recent research that phytoplankton has declined some 40 per cent. All the plastic ever made is still with us; most of it in the ocean where it is killing our world. Phytoplankton’s role is carbon dioxide absorption. Rising levels of carbon dioxide acidify the oceans.

Zac da Black

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 19th, 2012 at 7:11am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 6:54am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 5:56am:
You teach children what is known now and how to find out more.

SOB


Except that isn't what Labor is doing. It (man-made climate change) is being taught as fact.


How do you know? From what ive seen they are teaching it. Theres no mention of the context. Did fox news tell you?

SOB

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 19th, 2012 at 7:17am

Mutawintji wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 7:00am:
.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 5:56am:
You teach children what is known now and how to find out more.

SOB



Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 6:54am:
Except that isn't what Labor is doing. It (man-made climate change) is being taught as fact.


What part of this fact shouldn't be taught ?

We understand from recent research that phytoplankton has declined some 40 per cent. All the plastic ever made is still with us; most of it in the ocean where it is killing our world. Phytoplankton’s role is carbon dioxide absorption. Rising levels of carbon dioxide acidify the oceans.

Zac da Black

Why dont you take your plastic action to the right place instead of dribbling little posts about something that has nothing to do with the theory of mann-made climate pseudo science.

If there is not a thread about plastic. Go make one. Everyone around here manages to do that correctly, except you.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Mutawintji on Jul 19th, 2012 at 7:23am

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 7:17am:
Why dont you take your plastic action to the right place instead of dribbling little posts about something that has nothing to do with the theory of mann-made climate pseudo science.

If there is not a thread about plastic. Go make one. Everyone around here manages to do that correctly, except you.


Why isn't it relevant to man-made climate change ?

Zac da Black

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 19th, 2012 at 7:26am

Mutawintji wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 7:23am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 7:17am:
Why dont you take your plastic action to the right place instead of dribbling little posts about something that has nothing to do with the theory of mann-made climate pseudo science.

If there is not a thread about plastic. Go make one. Everyone around here manages to do that correctly, except you.


Why isn't it relevant to man-made climate change ?

Zac da Black

What you speak of is environmentalism, not of the pseudo science theory of co2.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Mutawintji on Jul 19th, 2012 at 7:30am

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 7:26am:
What you speak of is environmentalism, not of the pseudo science theory of co2.


I agree that environmentalism is not a pseudo-science. But why would I want to start a thread on pseudo-science.

Aren't you doing enough of that for both of us ?

We understand from recent research that phytoplankton has declined some 40 per cent. All the plastic ever made is still with us; most of it in the ocean where it is killing our world. Phytoplankton’s role is carbon dioxide absorption. Rising levels of carbon dioxide acidify the oceans.

Why is this not related to environmentalism and climate change ? Aren't they one and the same ?

Zac da Black



Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 19th, 2012 at 8:00am

Mutawintji wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 7:30am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 7:26am:
What you speak of is environmentalism, not of the pseudo science theory of co2.


I agree that environmentalism is not a pseudo-science. But why would I want to start a thread on pseudo-science.

Aren't you doing enough of that for both of us ?

We understand from recent research that phytoplankton has declined some 40 per cent. All the plastic ever made is still with us; most of it in the ocean where it is killing our world. Phytoplankton’s role is carbon dioxide absorption. Rising levels of carbon dioxide acidify the oceans.

Why is this not related to environmentalism and climate change ? Aren't they one and the same ?

Zac da Black

That question has been long posed about the ideology and the answer would seem to be, yes the climate pseudo science is more closely related to environmental activism than science.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Doctor Jolly on Jul 19th, 2012 at 9:16am
The far right have politicised the science of climate change.

This makes a very good subject to study at school because it combines science and politics.

If kept as Year 11 and Year 12 subjects, most in the far right would have left school by then, and so wont have their strong opinions brought into question.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by tonegunman1 on Jul 19th, 2012 at 11:04am

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 9:16am:
The far right have politicised the science of climate change.

This makes a very good subject to study at school because it combines science and politics.

If kept as Year 11 and Year 12 subjects, most in the far right would have left school by then, and so wont have their strong opinions brought into question.


It's a large helping of politics from BOTH sides where the origins of politicization lie squarely on the left...the right has been reactionary to this. This has filled the field with crap and barrow pushers where the data churned out in great volumes has very little scientific merit.

Bit hard to have the kiddies to sort the wheat from the chaff under those conditions.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Doctor Jolly on Jul 19th, 2012 at 11:44am

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 11:04am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 9:16am:
The far right have politicised the science of climate change.

This makes a very good subject to study at school because it combines science and politics.

If kept as Year 11 and Year 12 subjects, most in the far right would have left school by then, and so wont have their strong opinions brought into question.


It's a large helping of politics from BOTH sides where the origins of politicization lie squarely on the left...the right has been reactionary to this. This has filled the field with crap and barrow pushers where the data churned out in great volumes has very little scientific merit.

Bit hard to have the kiddies to sort the wheat from the chaff under those conditions.


No,  climate change as a science has wide spread concensus (97%) among scientists.

Some of the potential impacts have been exagerated, but that way different from the right just saying "climate change is BS".   Thats the sort of view where you put your political/religeous beliefs ahead of logic.



Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 19th, 2012 at 11:50am

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 11:44am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 11:04am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 9:16am:
The far right have politicised the science of climate change.

This makes a very good subject to study at school because it combines science and politics.

If kept as Year 11 and Year 12 subjects, most in the far right would have left school by then, and so wont have their strong opinions brought into question.


It's a large helping of politics from BOTH sides where the origins of politicization lie squarely on the left...the right has been reactionary to this. This has filled the field with crap and barrow pushers where the data churned out in great volumes has very little scientific merit.

Bit hard to have the kiddies to sort the wheat from the chaff under those conditions.


No,  climate change as a science has wide spread concensus (97%) among scientists.

Some of the potential impacts have been exagerated, but that way different from the right just saying "climate change is BS".   Thats the sort of view where you put your political/religeous beliefs ahead of logic.

The dogma is the BS about some concensus that does not, has not, will not ever exist.

The so called concensus is just made up out of ideology forces and nothing else. Do you even know how the so called concensus was arrived at.

It originated from an endlessly reported 2009 American Geophysical Union (AGU) survey consisting of an intentionally brief two-minute, two question online survey sent to 10,257 earth scientists by two researchers at the University of Illinois. Of the about 3.000 who responded, 82% answered “yes” to the second question, which like the first, most people I know would also have agreed with.

Then of those, only a small subset, just 77 who had been successful in getting more than half of their papers recently accepted by peer-reviewed climate science journals, were considered in their survey statistic. That “98% all scientists” referred to a laughably puny number of 75 of those 77 who answered “yes”.

That anything-but-scientific survey asked two questions. The first: “When compared with pre-1800s levels, do you think that mean global temperatures have generally risen, fallen, or remained relatively constant?” Few would be expected to dispute this…the planet began thawing out of the “Little Ice Age” in the middle 19th century, predating the Industrial Revolution. (That was the coldest period since the last real Ice Age ended roughly 10,000 years ago.)

The second question asked: “Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures?” So what constitutes “significant”? Does “changing” include both cooling and warming… and for both “better” and “worse”? And which contributions…does this include land use changes, such as agriculture and deforestation?


Then we have
Since 1998, more than 31,000 American scientists from diverse climate-related disciplines, including more than 9,000 with Ph.D.s, have signed a public petition announcing their belief that “…there is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate.” Included are atmospheric physicists, botanists, geologists, oceanographers, and meteorologists.


Looks to me the concensus, by numbers, is that mann-made catastrophic climate pseudo science is bunk.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/07/17/that-scientific-global-warming-consensus-not/

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 19th, 2012 at 1:06pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 11:50am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 11:44am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 11:04am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 9:16am:
The far right have politicised the science of climate change.

This makes a very good subject to study at school because it combines science and politics.

If kept as Year 11 and Year 12 subjects, most in the far right would have left school by then, and so wont have their strong opinions brought into question.


It's a large helping of politics from BOTH sides where the origins of politicization lie squarely on the left...the right has been reactionary to this. This has filled the field with crap and barrow pushers where the data churned out in great volumes has very little scientific merit.

Bit hard to have the kiddies to sort the wheat from the chaff under those conditions.


No,  climate change as a science has wide spread concensus (97%) among scientists.

Some of the potential impacts have been exagerated, but that way different from the right just saying "climate change is BS".   Thats the sort of view where you put your political/religeous beliefs ahead of logic.

The dogma is the BS about some concensus that does not, has not, will not ever exist.

The so called concensus is just made up out of ideology forces and nothing else. Do you even know how the so called concensus was arrived at.

It originated from an endlessly reported 2009 American Geophysical Union (AGU) survey consisting of an intentionally brief two-minute, two question online survey sent to 10,257 earth scientists by two researchers at the University of Illinois. Of the about 3.000 who responded, 82% answered “yes” to the second question, which like the first, most people I know would also have agreed with.

Then of those, only a small subset, just 77 who had been successful in getting more than half of their papers recently accepted by peer-reviewed climate science journals, were considered in their survey statistic. That “98% all scientists” referred to a laughably puny number of 75 of those 77 who answered “yes”.

That anything-but-scientific survey asked two questions. The first: “When compared with pre-1800s levels, do you think that mean global temperatures have generally risen, fallen, or remained relatively constant?” Few would be expected to dispute this…the planet began thawing out of the “Little Ice Age” in the middle 19th century, predating the Industrial Revolution. (That was the coldest period since the last real Ice Age ended roughly 10,000 years ago.)

The second question asked: “Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures?” So what constitutes “significant”? Does “changing” include both cooling and warming… and for both “better” and “worse”? And which contributions…does this include land use changes, such as agriculture and deforestation?


Then we have
Since 1998, more than 31,000 American scientists from diverse climate-related disciplines, including more than 9,000 with Ph.D.s, have signed a public petition announcing their belief that “…there is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate.” Included are atmospheric physicists, botanists, geologists, oceanographers, and meteorologists.


Looks to me the concensus, by numbers, is that mann-made catastrophic climate pseudo science is bunk.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/07/17/that-scientific-global-warming-consensus-not/


As Mozza may put it, you should watch out, because the Climate Change Karma, may just run over your consensus BS Dogma!

It's about time you Ostriches took your heads out of the sand, took an unbiased look at the science and had a good look at the leading edge effects of Climate Change, which are already affecting many places on the planet. 

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by tonegunman1 on Jul 19th, 2012 at 1:08pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 11:50am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 11:44am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 11:04am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 9:16am:
The far right have politicised the science of climate change.

This makes a very good subject to study at school because it combines science and politics.

If kept as Year 11 and Year 12 subjects, most in the far right would have left school by then, and so wont have their strong opinions brought into question.


It's a large helping of politics from BOTH sides where the origins of politicization lie squarely on the left...the right has been reactionary to this. This has filled the field with crap and barrow pushers where the data churned out in great volumes has very little scientific merit.

Bit hard to have the kiddies to sort the wheat from the chaff under those conditions.


No,  climate change as a science has wide spread concensus (97%) among scientists.

Some of the potential impacts have been exagerated, but that way different from the right just saying "climate change is BS".   Thats the sort of view where you put your political/religeous beliefs ahead of logic.

The dogma is the BS about some concensus that does not, has not, will not ever exist.

The so called concensus is just made up out of ideology forces and nothing else. Do you even know how the so called concensus was arrived at.

It originated from an endlessly reported 2009 American Geophysical Union (AGU) survey consisting of an intentionally brief two-minute, two question online survey sent to 10,257 earth scientists by two researchers at the University of Illinois. Of the about 3.000 who responded, 82% answered “yes” to the second question, which like the first, most people I know would also have agreed with.

Then of those, only a small subset, just 77 who had been successful in getting more than half of their papers recently accepted by peer-reviewed climate science journals, were considered in their survey statistic. That “98% all scientists” referred to a laughably puny number of 75 of those 77 who answered “yes”.

That anything-but-scientific survey asked two questions. The first: “When compared with pre-1800s levels, do you think that mean global temperatures have generally risen, fallen, or remained relatively constant?” Few would be expected to dispute this…the planet began thawing out of the “Little Ice Age” in the middle 19th century, predating the Industrial Revolution. (That was the coldest period since the last real Ice Age ended roughly 10,000 years ago.)

The second question asked: “Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures?” So what constitutes “significant”? Does “changing” include both cooling and warming… and for both “better” and “worse”? And which contributions…does this include land use changes, such as agriculture and deforestation?


Then we have
Since 1998, more than 31,000 American scientists from diverse climate-related disciplines, including more than 9,000 with Ph.D.s, have signed a public petition announcing their belief that “…there is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate.” Included are atmospheric physicists, botanists, geologists, oceanographers, and meteorologists.


Looks to me the concensus, by numbers, is that mann-made catastrophic climate pseudo science is bunk.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/07/17/that-scientific-global-warming-consensus-not/


Just to add to that 90% of those that responded were US, 6% Canada and 4% for the rest of the world, so not really representative on a global scale. Of these 5% were climatologists. Of those that had 50% of their published papers on climate change the rate was 96.2% (76/79) that the world had warmed since pre-1800's. And for question 2, 97.4% (75/77) said humans were a significant factor in changing mean global temperatures. Technically you should have rounded down to 97% but what the hey.
This small portion were characterised as "the most specialized and knowledgeable". There may be another explanation however. These are also scientists that have had recurrent funding. The source of funding is potentially a large confounding factor.

Have you ever seen those experiments where rats have their behaviour conditioned by a reward of food. Swap the rat for a scientist and the food for funding. There ya go.

Interestingly of the other scientists the ones with least acceptance worked in fields where they looked at long-term climate processes.

So should I be impressed by such over-whelming evidence...not a bit.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Doctor Jolly on Jul 19th, 2012 at 4:41pm
97% of scientists in the field of climate science confirm the data that man is causing climate change.

You cant deny it.

Your survey defines a "scientist" as anyone whowho have walked past a university.  Dodgy. Manipulative. Belief-driven.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by FriYAY on Jul 19th, 2012 at 4:46pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 4:41pm:
97% of scientists in the field of climate science confirm the data that man is causing climate change.

You cant deny it.

Your survey defines a "scientist" as anyone whowho have walked past a university.  Dodgy. Manipulative. Belief-driven.


You can't deny it... :D

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Doctor Jolly on Jul 19th, 2012 at 4:50pm
Just to clarify, do deniers:

a) deny that we are releasing co2 previously safely stored underground?

or

b) deny that co2 causes warming ?

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by tonegunman1 on Jul 19th, 2012 at 5:40pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 4:41pm:
97% of scientists in the field of climate science confirm the data that man is causing climate change.


Climate "science" is relatively new so I'm not quite sure how many actual climatologists there are that have also walked past a university and smelled a buck. You are misrepresenting also what they actually responded to and that was "Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor...". This shows that you are misrepresenting not only numbers but what they actually responded to and supported. Do you know what level is scientifically significant? as opposed to scientifically insignificant...they are scientists are they not?
And also "contributing factor" is in no way saying that it is the cause. It is saying that it is a cause. Not the same thing. Which any scientist, of any merit, will tell you.


Quote:
You cant deny it.


Yes I can ...and oh so very easily.


Quote:
Your survey defines a "scientist" as anyone whowho have walked past a university.  Dodgy. Manipulative. Belief-driven.


Well it ain't my survey it's the very one that is used to state the overwhelming support...that you and others rely on to make your endless regurgative  statements. We do agree that it is "Dodgy. Manipulative. Belief-driven".   

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 19th, 2012 at 9:57pm
What else did the ’97% of scientists’ say?
An indepth article

“..Science is based on scepticism and experimental proof. Whereas human GHG emissions certainly have a warming effect, the breakdown between natural and anthropogenic contributions to warming is poorly constrained.

Remember that the warming since 1650 AD (not 1900) is part of a real ‘millennial cycle’ whose amplitude cannot yet be explained by any quantitative theory.

Also, the computer climate models are both too complex to be readily understood and too simple to describe reality.

Believing their results is an act of faith…”


What is the opinion of the worlds scientists?

Are the public aware when they are lectured that ’97% of scientists’ agree based on the Doran paper, by their media, lobbyists, activist scientists and their politicians justifying climate action, that the UK, Germany, Spain, France, Australia, New Zealand respondents made up less than 3% of the survey in total. China had 3 scientists respond (three not 3%), Russian and India zero.

Perhaps if I was a western politician trying to persuade the public West to decarbonise and to extend or go beyond the Kyoto agreement I might think carefully about telling the public about the 97% of ALL scientists agree, when pushing for radical climate policies? As those countries outside of Kyoto agreement (China, India, Russia, etc) made it very clear at Copenhagen that  reduction in their own emissions is just not going to happen and at the recent Rio 20 plus conference I’m not even really aware that ‘climate change’ was mentioned that much at all.

What might I ask are those countries scientists telling their leaders about ‘climate change’ that may appear to many of them as a peculary western obsession (not many environmental lobby groups in China in the last 30 years). Perhaps those countries scientists are just not that concerned about a catastrophic interpretation of climate change,

I’ll just provide a ‘small’ anecdote to back up that hypothesis, just for fun, from China’s lead climate negotiator at Copenhagen (and Durban) no less.

Telegraph


“..China’s most senior climate change official surprised a summit in India when he questioned whether global warming is caused by carbon gas emissions and said Beijing is keeping an “open mind”

Xie Zhenhua was speaking at a summit between the developing world’s most powerful countries, India, Brazil, South Africa and China, which is now the largest emitter of carbon dioxide, the gas believed to be responsible for climate change.

But Mr Xie, China’s vice-chairman of national development and reforms commission, later said although mainstream scientific opinion blames emissions from industrial development for climate change, China is not convinced.

“There are disputes in the scientific community. We have to have an open attitude to the scientific research. There’s an alternative view that climate change is caused by cyclical trends in nature itself. We have to keep an open attitude,” he said…” (Telegraph)

Guardian

“..China’s most senior negotiator on climate change says more research needed to establish whether warming is man-made

China’s most senior negotiator on climate change said today he was keeping an open mind on whether global warming was man-made or the result of natural cycles.  Xie Zhenhua said there was no doubt that warming was taking place, but more and better scientific research was needed to establish the causes.

Xie’s comments caused consternation at the end of the post-meeting press conference, with his host, the Indian environment minister, Jairam Ramesh, attempting to play down any suggestions of dissent over the science of climate change…”(Guardian)


http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/18/what-else-did-the-97-of-scientists-say/

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 19th, 2012 at 11:18pm
If the LOONS want to look up some real facts, try the following organizations, as a starter -
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/
http://www.noaa.gov/climate.html
http://www.csiro.au/

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by corporate_whitey on Jul 19th, 2012 at 11:21pm
Corporate White supremacists are always coming up with ideological bull crap like this to impose their apartheid rule. 8-)

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by MOTR on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:19am
Would this mean that Queensland Science teachers can't mention the experiments of John Tyndall in 1859 which established the warming properties of CO2 and other greenhouse gases, or our satellites that show a drop in the outgoing radiation at the wavelength bands that greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane (CH4) absorb energy. Or perhaps they shouldn't mention the measurements that show an increase in atmospheric CO2 and a warming planet.

Is this the beginning of our Orwellian nightmare. Ministry of Education, indeed.


Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by tonegunman1 on Jul 20th, 2012 at 8:56am

MOTR wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:19am:
Would this mean that Queensland Science teachers can't mention the experiments of John Tyndall in 1859 which established the warming properties of CO2 and other greenhouse gases, or our satellites that show a drop in the outgoing radiation at the wavelength bands that greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane (CH4) absorb energy. Or perhaps they shouldn't mention the measurements that show an increase in atmospheric CO2 and a warming planet.

Is this the beginning of our Orwellian nightmare. Ministry of Education, indeed.


Gee...do we also tell them that in the last 20 thousand years that sea levels have increased 120 metres but the rate has actually slowed considerably. Do we also tell them that sea level has been historically much, much higher than it is now on average. Do we also tell them that CO2 levels are also well below average historical levels. With a concentration high of about 7000ppm during the Cambrian. The Cambrian was associated with an "explosion of life forms" with the emergence of most major animal phyla. Do we tell them that the ice-core data supports that CO2 lags temperature rise. That on 3 occasions in the last 300K years it has been hotter than it is now (without the burning of fossil fuel or any deforestation) and if we were at the global average during this time most of the planet would perish because of the severe cold and food shortages. Do we also teach that the greatest greenhouse gas is good old H2O as the single largest contributor to global warming. The ability of the oceans to absorb and release heat actually buffers the global climate and makes earth habitable.
So to get the full picture they need all the facts not just notes from a geological eyeblink.
The simple truth is your view is the Orwellian one. 

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Doctor Jolly on Jul 20th, 2012 at 9:10am

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 5:40pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 4:41pm:
97% of scientists in the field of climate science confirm the data that man is causing climate change.


Climate "science" is relatively new so I'm not quite sure how...

You're "not quite sure".  Of course you're not, you are not a expert in this field.


Quote:
Yes I can ...and oh so very easily.

[quote] Your survey defines a "scientist" as anyone whowho have walked past a university.  Dodgy. Manipulative. Belief-driven.


Well it ain't my survey ....
[/quote]

You're quoting it to justify your belief.  The survey was flawed. It found a number of people with some vague connection to "science" and called them a scientist to falsely make themselves more credible.
Got a degree in computer science, sign our petition.  Thats the level of candidates.


Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 20th, 2012 at 9:18am

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 8:56am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:19am:
Would this mean that Queensland Science teachers can't mention the experiments of John Tyndall in 1859 which established the warming properties of CO2 and other greenhouse gases, or our satellites that show a drop in the outgoing radiation at the wavelength bands that greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane (CH4) absorb energy. Or perhaps they shouldn't mention the measurements that show an increase in atmospheric CO2 and a warming planet.

Is this the beginning of our Orwellian nightmare. Ministry of Education, indeed.


Gee...do we also tell them that in the last 20 thousand years that sea levels have increased 120 metres but the rate has actually slowed considerably. Do we also tell them that sea level has been historically much, much higher than it is now on average. Do we also tell them that CO2 levels are also well below average historical levels. With a concentration high of about 7000ppm during the Cambrian. The Cambrian was associated with an "explosion of life forms" with the emergence of most major animal phyla. Do we tell them that the ice-core data supports that CO2 lags temperature rise. That on 3 occasions in the last 300K years it has been hotter than it is now (without the burning of fossil fuel or any deforestation) and if we were at the global average during this time most of the planet would perish because of the severe cold and food shortages. Do we also teach that the greatest greenhouse gas is good old H2O as the single largest contributor to global warming. The ability of the oceans to absorb and release heat actually buffers the global climate and makes earth habitable.
So to get the full picture they need all the facts not just notes from a geological eyeblink.
The simple truth is your view is the Orwellian one. 


It means, we teach the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge"& allow the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.

That is science!

What these LNP LOONS want, is a non sense/science!

As has been reported, these LNP LOONS want mainstream climate science to be cut from the state's school curriculum.


Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by John Smith on Jul 20th, 2012 at 9:39am
Liberal policy is if they don't like the message they deny it and shoot the messenger ....

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Doctor Jolly on Jul 20th, 2012 at 9:48am

John Smith wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 9:39am:
Liberal policy is if they don't like the message they deny it and shoot the messenger ....



Book burners, the lot of them.


Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by tonegunman1 on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:30am

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 9:10am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 5:40pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 4:41pm:
97% of scientists in the field of climate science confirm the data that man is causing climate change.


Climate "science" is relatively new so I'm not quite sure how...

You're "not quite sure".  Of course you're not, you are not a expert in this field.


Quote:
Yes I can ...and oh so very easily.

[quote] Your survey defines a "scientist" as anyone whowho have walked past a university.  Dodgy. Manipulative. Belief-driven.


Well it ain't my survey ....


You're quoting it to justify your belief.  The survey was flawed. It found a number of people with some vague connection to "science" and called them a scientist to falsely make themselves more credible.
Got a degree in computer science, sign our petition.  Thats the level of candidates.

[/quote]

Well no...but I don't call myself doctor without any justification either (and your far from jolly...or is that a euphemism for fat) when you cannot even understand that the survey I used was not my choice it was what YOU based your percentage of support on. Dimwit.

When I was saying "I'm not sure" in relation to "climatologists" give me the name of one of the signatories with a Bachelor of Climatology...just one...not too hard a ask for someone of your intellectual capacity in the climate academic world? Then we can have a read of their papers and listen to their expert opinion after finding out who supplied their funding. You know when tobacco was funding research in universities the vast majority of the research was positive...go figure.

And you don't quote anything to justify your belief...please!

I read all that I can from all sides of the debate and I form my own opinion...based on what has been put up. You put up crap and expect me to say it's tasty and say it does not have holes in it. Well it does...irrefutable holes, distortions and exaggerations. 

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by tonegunman1 on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:35am

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 9:48am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 9:39am:
Liberal policy is if they don't like the message they deny it and shoot the messenger ....



Book burners, the lot of them.


I think you'll find book burners are selectively destructive...which describes you more than anyone else.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Doctor Jolly on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:41am

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:30am:
Well no...but I don't call myself doctor without any justification either


You call yourself gunman, what does that say about you?


Quote:
When I was saying "I'm not sure" in relation to "climatologists" give me the name of one of the signatories with a Bachelor of Climatology...just one...not too hard a ask for someone of your intellectual capacity in the climate academic world? Then we can have a read of their papers and listen to their expert opinion after finding out who supplied their funding. You know when tobacco was funding research in universities the vast majority of the research was positive...go figure.

the 97% is from scientists who are actively involved in climate science. These come from general degrees (physics, etc) who have later specialised in climate studies. The 97% are actively publishing in peer reviewed journals, trying to gain better and better understanding of the issue.

Your survey you love to quote is from anyone who has a vague connection with science, and most have not published anything in a peer reviewed journal, or even studdied the climate data in any depth.

Ask yourself. Who are the vested interests who would benefit for portraying a hoax ?   Solar panel manufacturers ? (They are dwafted by many 1000 to 1 in size, by the fossil fuel industry). Its a totally laughable accusation.

If you are going to equate the debate to tobacco, climate scientists are firmly in the medical camp warning of the dangers of tobacco.


Quote:
I read all that I can from all sides of the debate and I form my own opinion...


You certainly do not to that.  You elevate belief over logic. Hence why deniers are often categorised along with religous ideolgists.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by tonegunman1 on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:44am

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 9:18am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 8:56am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:19am:
Would this mean that Queensland Science teachers can't mention the experiments of John Tyndall in 1859 which established the warming properties of CO2 and other greenhouse gases, or our satellites that show a drop in the outgoing radiation at the wavelength bands that greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane (CH4) absorb energy. Or perhaps they shouldn't mention the measurements that show an increase in atmospheric CO2 and a warming planet.

Is this the beginning of our Orwellian nightmare. Ministry of Education, indeed.


Gee...do we also tell them that in the last 20 thousand years that sea levels have increased 120 metres but the rate has actually slowed considerably. Do we also tell them that sea level has been historically much, much higher than it is now on average. Do we also tell them that CO2 levels are also well below average historical levels. With a concentration high of about 7000ppm during the Cambrian. The Cambrian was associated with an "explosion of life forms" with the emergence of most major animal phyla. Do we tell them that the ice-core data supports that CO2 lags temperature rise. That on 3 occasions in the last 300K years it has been hotter than it is now (without the burning of fossil fuel or any deforestation) and if we were at the global average during this time most of the planet would perish because of the severe cold and food shortages. Do we also teach that the greatest greenhouse gas is good old H2O as the single largest contributor to global warming. The ability of the oceans to absorb and release heat actually buffers the global climate and makes earth habitable.
So to get the full picture they need all the facts not just notes from a geological eyeblink.
The simple truth is your view is the Orwellian one. 


It means, we teach the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge"& allow the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.

That is science!

What these LNP LOONS want, is a non sense/science!

As has been reported, these LNP LOONS want mainstream climate science to be cut from the state's school curriculum.


Sorry...theories are not facts...until they are proven.
The current best scientific "known knowledge" must be able to withstand criticism and scrutiny...if it can't and is to be judged by a lower standard then just say so.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Doctor Jolly on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:49am

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:44am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 9:18am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 8:56am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:19am:
Would this mean that Queensland Science teachers can't mention the experiments of John Tyndall in 1859 which established the warming properties of CO2 and other greenhouse gases, or our satellites that show a drop in the outgoing radiation at the wavelength bands that greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane (CH4) absorb energy. Or perhaps they shouldn't mention the measurements that show an increase in atmospheric CO2 and a warming planet.

Is this the beginning of our Orwellian nightmare. Ministry of Education, indeed.


Gee...do we also tell them that in the last 20 thousand years that sea levels have increased 120 metres but the rate has actually slowed considerably. Do we also tell them that sea level has been historically much, much higher than it is now on average. Do we also tell them that CO2 levels are also well below average historical levels. With a concentration high of about 7000ppm during the Cambrian. The Cambrian was associated with an "explosion of life forms" with the emergence of most major animal phyla. Do we tell them that the ice-core data supports that CO2 lags temperature rise. That on 3 occasions in the last 300K years it has been hotter than it is now (without the burning of fossil fuel or any deforestation) and if we were at the global average during this time most of the planet would perish because of the severe cold and food shortages. Do we also teach that the greatest greenhouse gas is good old H2O as the single largest contributor to global warming. The ability of the oceans to absorb and release heat actually buffers the global climate and makes earth habitable.
So to get the full picture they need all the facts not just notes from a geological eyeblink.
The simple truth is your view is the Orwellian one. 


It means, we teach the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge"& allow the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.

That is science!

What these LNP LOONS want, is a non sense/science!

As has been reported, these LNP LOONS want mainstream climate science to be cut from the state's school curriculum.


Sorry...theories are not facts...until they are proven.
The current best scientific "known knowledge" must be able to withstand criticism and scrutiny...if it can't and is to be judged by a lower standard then just say so.


Science is never proven.   Are you advocating suspenstion of all science to be taught in schools.?

I assume replace by daily prayers . "Oh god, please stop the climate warming".

;D

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by tonegunman1 on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:59am

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:41am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:30am:
Well no...but I don't call myself doctor without any justification either


When I was saying "I'm not sure" in relation to "climatologists" give me the name of one of the signatories with a Bachelor of Climatology...just one...not too hard a ask for someone of your intellectual capacity in the climate academic world? Then we can have a read of their papers and listen to their expert opinion after finding out who supplied their funding. You know when tobacco was funding research in universities the vast majority of the research was positive...go figure.

the 97% is from scientists who are actively involved in climate science.


I take that as a big old NO to any Degrees in climatology.


Quote:

Your survey you love to quote is from anyone who has a vague connection with science, and most have not published anything in a peer reviewed journal, or even studdied the climate data in any depth.


I can however spell.

[quote]
If you are going to equate the debate to tobacco, climate scientists are firmly in the medical camp warning of the dangers of tobacco.


You know this how...got a link to the published paper...bit outside their field though...don't ya think?
I suppose that hasn't stopped them before publishing papers they don't even have a qualification for...tsk, tsk, tsk.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Doctor Jolly on Jul 20th, 2012 at 11:04am
gunman,  I think you should read and comprehend my posts before replying.

All the questions or points you raise have already been answered/refuted already.  No point going around in circles.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by tonegunman1 on Jul 20th, 2012 at 11:07am

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:49am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:44am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 9:18am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 8:56am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:19am:
Would this mean that Queensland Science teachers can't mention the experiments of John Tyndall in 1859 which established the warming properties of CO2 and other greenhouse gases, or our satellites that show a drop in the outgoing radiation at the wavelength bands that greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane (CH4) absorb energy. Or perhaps they shouldn't mention the measurements that show an increase in atmospheric CO2 and a warming planet.

Is this the beginning of our Orwellian nightmare. Ministry of Education, indeed.


Gee...do we also tell them that in the last 20 thousand years that sea levels have increased 120 metres but the rate has actually slowed considerably. Do we also tell them that sea level has been historically much, much higher than it is now on average. Do we also tell them that CO2 levels are also well below average historical levels. With a concentration high of about 7000ppm during the Cambrian. The Cambrian was associated with an "explosion of life forms" with the emergence of most major animal phyla. Do we tell them that the ice-core data supports that CO2 lags temperature rise. That on 3 occasions in the last 300K years it has been hotter than it is now (without the burning of fossil fuel or any deforestation) and if we were at the global average during this time most of the planet would perish because of the severe cold and food shortages. Do we also teach that the greatest greenhouse gas is good old H2O as the single largest contributor to global warming. The ability of the oceans to absorb and release heat actually buffers the global climate and makes earth habitable.
So to get the full picture they need all the facts not just notes from a geological eyeblink.
The simple truth is your view is the Orwellian one. 


It means, we teach the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge"& allow the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.

That is science!

What these LNP LOONS want, is a non sense/science!

As has been reported, these LNP LOONS want mainstream climate science to be cut from the state's school curriculum.


Sorry...theories are not facts...until they are proven.
The current best scientific "known knowledge" must be able to withstand criticism and scrutiny...if it can't and is to be judged by a lower standard then just say so.


Science is never proven.   Are you advocating suspenstion of all science to be taught in schools.?

I assume replace by daily prayers . "Oh god, please stop the climate warming".

;D
.

I am advocating that climate "science" has the same standards applied. Everything has to withstand scrutiny. Perceptions seemed to be unsure of the difference between facts and theories...
You're defecting...come on degree in climatology...just one.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by tonegunman1 on Jul 20th, 2012 at 11:10am

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 11:04am:
gunman,  I think you should read and comprehend my posts before replying.

All the questions or points you raise have already been answered/refuted already.  No point going around in circles.


Well...no you havn't.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 20th, 2012 at 11:50am

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 11:07am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:49am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:44am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 9:18am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 8:56am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:19am:
Would this mean that Queensland Science teachers can't mention the experiments of John Tyndall in 1859 which established the warming properties of CO2 and other greenhouse gases, or our satellites that show a drop in the outgoing radiation at the wavelength bands that greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane (CH4) absorb energy. Or perhaps they shouldn't mention the measurements that show an increase in atmospheric CO2 and a warming planet.

Is this the beginning of our Orwellian nightmare. Ministry of Education, indeed.


Gee...do we also tell them that in the last 20 thousand years that sea levels have increased 120 metres but the rate has actually slowed considerably. Do we also tell them that sea level has been historically much, much higher than it is now on average. Do we also tell them that CO2 levels are also well below average historical levels. With a concentration high of about 7000ppm during the Cambrian. The Cambrian was associated with an "explosion of life forms" with the emergence of most major animal phyla. Do we tell them that the ice-core data supports that CO2 lags temperature rise. That on 3 occasions in the last 300K years it has been hotter than it is now (without the burning of fossil fuel or any deforestation) and if we were at the global average during this time most of the planet would perish because of the severe cold and food shortages. Do we also teach that the greatest greenhouse gas is good old H2O as the single largest contributor to global warming. The ability of the oceans to absorb and release heat actually buffers the global climate and makes earth habitable.
So to get the full picture they need all the facts not just notes from a geological eyeblink.
The simple truth is your view is the Orwellian one. 


It means, we teach the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge"& allow the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.

That is science!

What these LNP LOONS want, is a non sense/science!

As has been reported, these LNP LOONS want mainstream climate science to be cut from the state's school curriculum.


Sorry...theories are not facts...until they are proven.
The current best scientific "known knowledge" must be able to withstand criticism and scrutiny...if it can't and is to be judged by a lower standard then just say so.


Science is never proven.   Are you advocating suspenstion of all science to be taught in schools.?

I assume replace by daily prayers . "Oh god, please stop the climate warming".

;D
.

I am advocating that climate "science" has the same standards applied. Everything has to withstand scrutiny. Perceptions seemed to be unsure of the difference between facts and theories...
You're defecting...come on degree in climatology...just one.


How is teaching the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge" & allowing the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories, anything other than best scientific practice?

That's how we progressed from the dark ages & burning people at the stake, to having today's modern society. But, there are always exceptions & Politicians are one large exception!

And, if the above is best practice, then how can these LNP LOONS be achieving best practice, IF they delete the best know knowledge of the time, from the curriculum?

What these LNP LOONS are proposing has nothing to do with learning, teaching or science!


Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 20th, 2012 at 2:31pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 11:50am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 11:07am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:49am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:44am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 9:18am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 8:56am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:19am:
Would this mean that Queensland Science teachers can't mention the experiments of John Tyndall in 1859 which established the warming properties of CO2 and other greenhouse gases, or our satellites that show a drop in the outgoing radiation at the wavelength bands that greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane (CH4) absorb energy. Or perhaps they shouldn't mention the measurements that show an increase in atmospheric CO2 and a warming planet.

Is this the beginning of our Orwellian nightmare. Ministry of Education, indeed.


Gee...do we also tell them that in the last 20 thousand years that sea levels have increased 120 metres but the rate has actually slowed considerably. Do we also tell them that sea level has been historically much, much higher than it is now on average. Do we also tell them that CO2 levels are also well below average historical levels. With a concentration high of about 7000ppm during the Cambrian. The Cambrian was associated with an "explosion of life forms" with the emergence of most major animal phyla. Do we tell them that the ice-core data supports that CO2 lags temperature rise. That on 3 occasions in the last 300K years it has been hotter than it is now (without the burning of fossil fuel or any deforestation) and if we were at the global average during this time most of the planet would perish because of the severe cold and food shortages. Do we also teach that the greatest greenhouse gas is good old H2O as the single largest contributor to global warming. The ability of the oceans to absorb and release heat actually buffers the global climate and makes earth habitable.
So to get the full picture they need all the facts not just notes from a geological eyeblink.
The simple truth is your view is the Orwellian one. 


It means, we teach the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge"& allow the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.

That is science!

What these LNP LOONS want, is a non sense/science!

As has been reported, these LNP LOONS want mainstream climate science to be cut from the state's school curriculum.


Sorry...theories are not facts...until they are proven.
The current best scientific "known knowledge" must be able to withstand criticism and scrutiny...if it can't and is to be judged by a lower standard then just say so.


Science is never proven.   Are you advocating suspenstion of all science to be taught in schools.?

I assume replace by daily prayers . "Oh god, please stop the climate warming".

;D
.

I am advocating that climate "science" has the same standards applied. Everything has to withstand scrutiny. Perceptions seemed to be unsure of the difference between facts and theories...
You're defecting...come on degree in climatology...just one.


How is teaching the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge" & allowing the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories, anything other than best scientific practice?

That's how we progressed from the dark ages & burning people at the stake, to having today's modern society. But, there are always exceptions & Politicians are one large exception!

And, if the above is best practice, then how can these LNP LOONS be achieving best practice, IF they delete the best know knowledge of the time, from the curriculum?

What these LNP LOONS are proposing has nothing to do with learning, teaching or science!

So Tongue1, you've finally accepted that these LNP LOONS are wrong, in trying to delete the best known knowledge of the time, from the curriculum?

Even Maqqa & Longweekend, wouldn't try to spin that, as being the correct way to go!

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by tonegunman1 on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:13pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 2:31pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 11:50am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 11:07am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:49am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:44am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 9:18am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 8:56am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:19am:
Would this mean that Queensland Science teachers can't mention the experiments of John Tyndall in 1859 which established the warming properties of CO2 and other greenhouse gases, or our satellites that show a drop in the outgoing radiation at the wavelength bands that greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane (CH4) absorb energy. Or perhaps they shouldn't mention the measurements that show an increase in atmospheric CO2 and a warming planet.

Is this the beginning of our Orwellian nightmare. Ministry of Education, indeed.


Gee...do we also tell them that in the last 20 thousand years that sea levels have increased 120 metres but the rate has actually slowed considerably. Do we also tell them that sea level has been historically much, much higher than it is now on average. Do we also tell them that CO2 levels are also well below average historical levels. With a concentration high of about 7000ppm during the Cambrian. The Cambrian was associated with an "explosion of life forms" with the emergence of most major animal phyla. Do we tell them that the ice-core data supports that CO2 lags temperature rise. That on 3 occasions in the last 300K years it has been hotter than it is now (without the burning of fossil fuel or any deforestation) and if we were at the global average during this time most of the planet would perish because of the severe cold and food shortages. Do we also teach that the greatest greenhouse gas is good old H2O as the single largest contributor to global warming. The ability of the oceans to absorb and release heat actually buffers the global climate and makes earth habitable.
So to get the full picture they need all the facts not just notes from a geological eyeblink.
The simple truth is your view is the Orwellian one. 


It means, we teach the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge"& allow the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.

That is science!

What these LNP LOONS want, is a non sense/science!

As has been reported, these LNP LOONS want mainstream climate science to be cut from the state's school curriculum.


Sorry...theories are not facts...until they are proven.
The current best scientific "known knowledge" must be able to withstand criticism and scrutiny...if it can't and is to be judged by a lower standard then just say so.


Science is never proven.   Are you advocating suspenstion of all science to be taught in schools.?

I assume replace by daily prayers . "Oh god, please stop the climate warming".

;D
.

I am advocating that climate "science" has the same standards applied. Everything has to withstand scrutiny. Perceptions seemed to be unsure of the difference between facts and theories...
You're defecting...come on degree in climatology...just one.


How is teaching the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge" & allowing the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories, anything other than best scientific practice?

That's how we progressed from the dark ages & burning people at the stake, to having today's modern society. But, there are always exceptions & Politicians are one large exception!

And, if the above is best practice, then how can these LNP LOONS be achieving best practice, IF they delete the best know knowledge of the time, from the curriculum?

What these LNP LOONS are proposing has nothing to do with learning, teaching or science!

So Tongue1, you've finally accepted that these LNP LOONS are wrong, in trying to delete the best known knowledge of the time, from the curriculum?

Even Maqqa & Longweekend, wouldn't try to spin that, as being the correct way to go!


Give me a break if someone with a contrary view to yours had data produced by the "best practice" that that you are happy to run with you'd rightly call them frauds. Being highly selective with your data you present does just that...you can't look at a geological eye-blink in isolation without looking at the full picture...or do you say science had no existence before 1900. I have no problem with it being taught as a theory provided it's contextual and where methodology, standards and content are subject to the same rigor as science in general.
There is good reason to think that heating will lead to cooling in any case via the collapse of the gulfstream... Warm epochs have invariably been followed by steep declines in temperature.
The truth is we live in a period that has warmer conditions and we benefit from that...this is unusual and an anomaly in our climate and that is an indisputable fact not based on projections or supposition but the scientific geological record.

You said yourself that nothing will be done in any case so what will happen will happen and there is not a thing you or I can do to prevent it...whatever that may be. If it does not happen you were wrong...if it does the kiddies have something more to read for history.


Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by adelcrow on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:26pm
Deniers are just the same fools that buy any old rubbish fed to them by the wealthy and powerful business lobby groups.
We see it time and time again and the only surprising thing is that in this day and age anyone could let themselves be so obviously manipulated.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:36pm

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:26pm:
Deniers are just the same fools that buy any old rubbish fed to them by the wealthy and powerful business lobby groups.
We see it time and time again and the only surprising thing is that in this day and age anyone could let themselves be so obviously manipulated.

AGW loons are exaclty like the doomsday cultists. The end of the world is nigh...... cookoo cookoo

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:44pm
These arguments are the same as the ones ppl were saying when it was found that CFCs were causing the ozone hole. Nobody wanted to give up their sprays and nobody wanted to believe the science about the damage. Now some ppl STILL use the friggin things cause they arent illegal because of the sceptics but because the use was taken down so much the hole over australia is much much smaller now.

Spot

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Doctor Jolly on Jul 20th, 2012 at 4:00pm

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:26pm:
Deniers are just the same fools that buy any old rubbish fed to them by the wealthy and powerful business lobby groups.
We see it time and time again and the only surprising thing is that in this day and age anyone could let themselves be so obviously manipulated.



Which makes you realise that a certain percentage of the population are just hard wired that way.


Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 20th, 2012 at 4:08pm

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:13pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 2:31pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 11:50am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 11:07am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:49am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:44am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 9:18am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 8:56am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:19am:
Would this mean that Queensland Science teachers can't mention the experiments of John Tyndall in 1859 which established the warming properties of CO2 and other greenhouse gases, or our satellites that show a drop in the outgoing radiation at the wavelength bands that greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane (CH4) absorb energy. Or perhaps they shouldn't mention the measurements that show an increase in atmospheric CO2 and a warming planet.

Is this the beginning of our Orwellian nightmare. Ministry of Education, indeed.


Gee...do we also tell them that in the last 20 thousand years that sea levels have increased 120 metres but the rate has actually slowed considerably. Do we also tell them that sea level has been historically much, much higher than it is now on average. Do we also tell them that CO2 levels are also well below average historical levels. With a concentration high of about 7000ppm during the Cambrian. The Cambrian was associated with an "explosion of life forms" with the emergence of most major animal phyla. Do we tell them that the ice-core data supports that CO2 lags temperature rise. That on 3 occasions in the last 300K years it has been hotter than it is now (without the burning of fossil fuel or any deforestation) and if we were at the global average during this time most of the planet would perish because of the severe cold and food shortages. Do we also teach that the greatest greenhouse gas is good old H2O as the single largest contributor to global warming. The ability of the oceans to absorb and release heat actually buffers the global climate and makes earth habitable.
So to get the full picture they need all the facts not just notes from a geological eyeblink.
The simple truth is your view is the Orwellian one. 


It means, we teach the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge"& allow the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.

That is science!

What these LNP LOONS want, is a non sense/science!

As has been reported, these LNP LOONS want mainstream climate science to be cut from the state's school curriculum.


Sorry...theories are not facts...until they are proven.
The current best scientific "known knowledge" must be able to withstand criticism and scrutiny...if it can't and is to be judged by a lower standard then just say so.


Science is never proven.   Are you advocating suspenstion of all science to be taught in schools.?

I assume replace by daily prayers . "Oh god, please stop the climate warming".

;D
.

I am advocating that climate "science" has the same standards applied. Everything has to withstand scrutiny. Perceptions seemed to be unsure of the difference between facts and theories...
You're defecting...come on degree in climatology...just one.


How is teaching the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge" & allowing the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories, anything other than best scientific practice?

That's how we progressed from the dark ages & burning people at the stake, to having today's modern society. But, there are always exceptions & Politicians are one large exception!

And, if the above is best practice, then how can these LNP LOONS be achieving best practice, IF they delete the best know knowledge of the time, from the curriculum?

What these LNP LOONS are proposing has nothing to do with learning, teaching or science!

So Tongue1, you've finally accepted that these LNP LOONS are wrong, in trying to delete the best known knowledge of the time, from the curriculum?

Even Maqqa & Longweekend, wouldn't try to spin that, as being the correct way to go!


Give me a break if someone with a contrary view to yours had data produced by the "best practice" that that you are happy to run with you'd rightly call them frauds. Being highly selective with your data you present does just that...you can't look at a geological eye-blink in isolation without looking at the full picture...or do you say science had no existence before 1900. I have no problem with it being taught as a theory provided it's contextual and where methodology, standards and content are subject to the same rigor as science in general.
There is good reason to think that heating will lead to cooling in any case via the collapse of the gulfstream... Warm epochs have invariably been followed by steep declines in temperature.
The truth is we live in a period that has warmer conditions and we benefit from that...this is unusual and an anomaly in our climate and that is an indisputable fact not based on projections or supposition but the scientific geological record.

You said yourself that nothing will be done in any case so what will happen will happen and there is not a thing you or I can do to prevent it...whatever that may be. If it does not happen you were wrong...if it does the kiddies have something more to read for history.



I have said -
"How is teaching the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge" & allowing the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories, anything other than best scientific practice?
And, if the above is best practice, then how can these LNP LOONS be achieving best practice, IF they delete the best know knowledge of the time, from the curriculum?"

How is that wrong?

I have also said, many times, that we are reaching the Peak of the current warming and after this period history would suggest a quick decline into a long Ice Age.

The thing is, we are speeding towards this at a quicker rate than we should, as we humans are speeding up the process and this glacial period will be very difficult for humanity, as the last one all but finished us.

At the very least, the top of this warming period, which is being enhanced & sped up, by human activity, will ensure that the lives of the bulk of the planets human population will end.

It will also see the end of the Global Economy as we know it, with neither humanity, nor our Economy has the tools available to it, too survive the extremes of the Planets Climate.

I have also said, many times, that I don't expect things will change, because a large part of the Global Pollies & TPTB want the status quo to continue and they will attempt to achieve the impossible, whilst reality comes home to roost! 

THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE SHOULD ROLE OVER & LET THEM!

Finally, what happens if I'm wrong & nothing happens?
Well, that's just not possible, because we are coming to the top of the Climate Cycle, so it will Peak & then the big cold will start, it's just a matter of timing and by doing nothing we may get there quicker.

However, if I'm (& a few others) correct and the Global Pollies stop thinking they can hold onto the staus quo & maybe get some self advantage, then we may have some chance?

Slim, I'll admit, but still some chance and maybe we can find some avenues to avert the worst outcomes?   


In short, if we want to have kiddies & a history, then we have to pull out our collective finger and we need to do it, quickly!

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by longweekend58 on Jul 20th, 2012 at 4:22pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 4:08pm:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:13pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 2:31pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 11:50am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 11:07am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:49am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:44am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 9:18am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 8:56am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:19am:
Would this mean that Queensland Science teachers can't mention the experiments of John Tyndall in 1859 which established the warming properties of CO2 and other greenhouse gases, or our satellites that show a drop in the outgoing radiation at the wavelength bands that greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane (CH4) absorb energy. Or perhaps they shouldn't mention the measurements that show an increase in atmospheric CO2 and a warming planet.

Is this the beginning of our Orwellian nightmare. Ministry of Education, indeed.


Gee...do we also tell them that in the last 20 thousand years that sea levels have increased 120 metres but the rate has actually slowed considerably. Do we also tell them that sea level has been historically much, much higher than it is now on average. Do we also tell them that CO2 levels are also well below average historical levels. With a concentration high of about 7000ppm during the Cambrian. The Cambrian was associated with an "explosion of life forms" with the emergence of most major animal phyla. Do we tell them that the ice-core data supports that CO2 lags temperature rise. That on 3 occasions in the last 300K years it has been hotter than it is now (without the burning of fossil fuel or any deforestation) and if we were at the global average during this time most of the planet would perish because of the severe cold and food shortages. Do we also teach that the greatest greenhouse gas is good old H2O as the single largest contributor to global warming. The ability of the oceans to absorb and release heat actually buffers the global climate and makes earth habitable.
So to get the full picture they need all the facts not just notes from a geological eyeblink.
The simple truth is your view is the Orwellian one. 


It means, we teach the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge"& allow the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.

That is science!

What these LNP LOONS want, is a non sense/science!

As has been reported, these LNP LOONS want mainstream climate science to be cut from the state's school curriculum.


Sorry...theories are not facts...until they are proven.
The current best scientific "known knowledge" must be able to withstand criticism and scrutiny...if it can't and is to be judged by a lower standard then just say so.


Science is never proven.   Are you advocating suspenstion of all science to be taught in schools.?

I assume replace by daily prayers . "Oh god, please stop the climate warming".

;D
.

I am advocating that climate "science" has the same standards applied. Everything has to withstand scrutiny. Perceptions seemed to be unsure of the difference between facts and theories...
You're defecting...come on degree in climatology...just one.


How is teaching the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge" & allowing the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories, anything other than best scientific practice?

That's how we progressed from the dark ages & burning people at the stake, to having today's modern society. But, there are always exceptions & Politicians are one large exception!

And, if the above is best practice, then how can these LNP LOONS be achieving best practice, IF they delete the best know knowledge of the time, from the curriculum?

What these LNP LOONS are proposing has nothing to do with learning, teaching or science!

So Tongue1, you've finally accepted that these LNP LOONS are wrong, in trying to delete the best known knowledge of the time, from the curriculum?

Even Maqqa & Longweekend, wouldn't try to spin that, as being the correct way to go!


Give me a break if someone with a contrary view to yours had data produced by the "best practice" that that you are happy to run with you'd rightly call them frauds. Being highly selective with your data you present does just that...you can't look at a geological eye-blink in isolation without looking at the full picture...or do you say science had no existence before 1900. I have no problem with it being taught as a theory provided it's contextual and where methodology, standards and content are subject to the same rigor as science in general.
There is good reason to think that heating will lead to cooling in any case via the collapse of the gulfstream... Warm epochs have invariably been followed by steep declines in temperature.
The truth is we live in a period that has warmer conditions and we benefit from that...this is unusual and an anomaly in our climate and that is an indisputable fact not based on projections or supposition but the scientific geological record.

You said yourself that nothing will be done in any case so what will happen will happen and there is not a thing you or I can do to prevent it...whatever that may be. If it does not happen you were wrong...if it does the kiddies have something more to read for history.



I have said -
"How is teaching the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge" & allowing the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories, anything other than best scientific practice?
And, if the above is best practice, then how can these LNP LOONS be achieving best practice, IF they delete the best know knowledge of the time, from the curriculum?"

How is that wrong?

I have also said, many times, that we are reaching the Peak of the current warming and after this period history would suggest a quick decline into a long Ice Age.

The thing is, we are speeding towards this at a quicker rate than we should, as we humans are speeding up the process and this glacial period will be very difficult for humanity, as the last one all but finished us.

At the very least, the top of this warming period, which is being enhanced & sped up, by human activity, will ensure that the lives of the bulk of the planets human population will end.

It will also see the end of the Global Economy as we know it, with neither humanity, nor our Economy has the tools available to it, too survive the extremes of the Planets Climate.

I have also said, many times, that I don't expect things will change, because a large part of the Global Pollies & TPTB want the status quo to continue and they will attempt to achieve the impossible, whilst reality comes home to roost! 

THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE SHOULD ROLE OVER & LET THEM!

Finally, what happens if I'm wrong & nothing happens?
Well, that's just not possible, because we are coming to the top of the Climate Cycle, so it will Peak & then the big cold will start, it's just a matter of timing and by doing nothing we may get there quicker.

However, if I'm (& a few others) correct and the Global Pollies stop thinking they can hold onto the staus quo & maybe get some self advantage, then we may have some chance?

Slim, I'll admit, but still some chance and maybe we can find some avenues to avert the worst outcomes?   


In short, if we want to have kiddies & a history, then we have to pull out our collective finger and we need to do it, quickly!


and as usual.... no suggestions, just a collective panic whinge.

you are predictable.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 20th, 2012 at 8:44pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 4:22pm:
and as usual.... no suggestions, just a collective panic whinge.

you are predictable.


Well yes, I am predictable!

I will raise issues that need to be raised and talk about the issues, without having to toe any Political Party line.

And, I am consistent about the approaches I take. However, if I'm shown an alternative view, which makes more sense, I will & do, change my view. 

It is, however, incorrect of you to say that I have no suggestions! I have many suggestions and have put them here & elsewhere. That said, to effectively deal with the sort of issues that I raise, there is often a general pre-requisite to have a greater understanding amongst the population that there is a problem, before solutions can even be considered, let alone become possible.

That is, IF there are solutions and in some cases the dilemma's are so intractable that solutions may not be forthcoming? 


And that leaves you and as usual, you just whinge & generally insult other members on this site!

You have a nice day now, LW, ya hear.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by MOTR on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:02pm

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 8:56am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:19am:
Would this mean that Queensland Science teachers can't mention the experiments of John Tyndall in 1859 which established the warming properties of CO2 and other greenhouse gases, or our satellites that show a drop in the outgoing radiation at the wavelength bands that greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane (CH4) absorb energy. Or perhaps they shouldn't mention the measurements that show an increase in atmospheric CO2 and a warming planet.

Is this the beginning of our Orwellian nightmare. Ministry of Education, indeed.


Gee...do we also tell them that in the last 20 thousand years that sea levels have increased 120 metres but the rate has actually slowed considerably. Do we also tell them that sea level has been historically much, much higher than it is now on average. Do we also tell them that CO2 levels are also well below average historical levels. With a concentration high of about 7000ppm during the Cambrian. The Cambrian was associated with an "explosion of life forms" with the emergence of most major animal phyla. Do we tell them that the ice-core data supports that CO2 lags temperature rise. That on 3 occasions in the last 300K years it has been hotter than it is now (without the burning of fossil fuel or any deforestation) and if we were at the global average during this time most of the planet would perish because of the severe cold and food shortages. Do we also teach that the greatest greenhouse gas is good old H2O as the single largest contributor to global warming. The ability of the oceans to absorb and release heat actually buffers the global climate and makes earth habitable.
So to get the full picture they need all the facts not just notes from a geological eyeblink.
The simple truth is your view is the Orwellian one. 


A gish gallop is no substitute for reason. How about you articulate a logical argument next time.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Shane B on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:09pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 9:10am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 5:40pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 4:41pm:
97% of scientists in the field of climate science confirm the data that man is causing climate change.


Climate "science" is relatively new so I'm not quite sure how...

You're "not quite sure".  Of course you're not, you are not a expert in this field.


Quote:
Yes I can ...and oh so very easily.

[quote] Your survey defines a "scientist" as anyone whowho have walked past a university.  Dodgy. Manipulative. Belief-driven.


Well it ain't my survey ....


You're quoting it to justify your belief.  The survey was flawed. It found a number of people with some vague connection to "science" and called them a scientist to falsely make themselves more credible.
Got a degree in computer science, sign our petition.  Thats the level of candidates.

[/quote]

Sounds like the IPCC.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Soren on Jul 20th, 2012 at 10:23pm
Koala Lumpen Crow
"Deniers are just the same fools that buy any old rubbish fed to them by the wealthy and powerful business lobby groups.
We see it time and time again and the only surprising thing is that in this day and age anyone could let themselves be so obviously manipulated."


Unlike people who still identify with some latino guy from the 50s. That's being up to date.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by MOTR on Jul 21st, 2012 at 5:26am

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:36pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:26pm:
Deniers are just the same fools that buy any old rubbish fed to them by the wealthy and powerful business lobby groups.
We see it time and time again and the only surprising thing is that in this day and age anyone could let themselves be so obviously manipulated.

AGW loons are exaclty like the doomsday cultists. The end of the world is nigh...... cookoo cookoo


Are you still going, progs? I wonder what your vested interest might be. Is it fear of facing your own gullibility or fear of facing reality.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by MOTR on Jul 21st, 2012 at 5:34am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DjPo0ewuCw&sns=em

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 21st, 2012 at 12:41pm

MOTR wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 5:26am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:36pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:26pm:
Deniers are just the same fools that buy any old rubbish fed to them by the wealthy and powerful business lobby groups.
We see it time and time again and the only surprising thing is that in this day and age anyone could let themselves be so obviously manipulated.

AGW loons are exaclty like the doomsday cultists. The end of the world is nigh...... cookoo cookoo


Are you still going, progs? I wonder what your vested interest might be. Is it fear of facing your own gullibility or fear of facing reality.

Vested interest is real science, not pseudo science. Real debate, not gatekeeping and especially of all, no to socialists/marxists taking over an agenda and making it their own.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 21st, 2012 at 12:43pm

MOTR wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 5:34am:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DjPo0ewuCw&sns=em

Pure propaganda. Typical coming from AGW'rs with their failed empirically theory.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by MOTR on Jul 21st, 2012 at 1:24pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 12:41pm:

MOTR wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 5:26am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:36pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:26pm:
Deniers are just the same fools that buy any old rubbish fed to them by the wealthy and powerful business lobby groups.
We see it time and time again and the only surprising thing is that in this day and age anyone could let themselves be so obviously manipulated.

AGW loons are exaclty like the doomsday cultists. The end of the world is nigh...... cookoo cookoo


Are you still going, progs? I wonder what your vested interest might be. Is it fear of facing your own gullibility or fear of facing reality.

Vested interest is real science, not pseudo science. Real debate, not gatekeeping and especially of all, no to socialists/marxists taking over an agenda and making it their own.


Mate, last time I looked the real scientist were telling us the world is warming and that with a high degree of certainty we are responsible. When the science doesn't conform to your world view how about we call it pseudo science, I'm surprised you're not calling it witchcraft.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 21st, 2012 at 1:38pm

MOTR wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 1:24pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 12:41pm:

MOTR wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 5:26am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:36pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:26pm:
Deniers are just the same fools that buy any old rubbish fed to them by the wealthy and powerful business lobby groups.
We see it time and time again and the only surprising thing is that in this day and age anyone could let themselves be so obviously manipulated.

AGW loons are exaclty like the doomsday cultists. The end of the world is nigh...... cookoo cookoo


Are you still going, progs? I wonder what your vested interest might be. Is it fear of facing your own gullibility or fear of facing reality.

Vested interest is real science, not pseudo science. Real debate, not gatekeeping and especially of all, no to socialists/marxists taking over an agenda and making it their own.


Mate, last time I looked the real scientist were telling us the world is warming and that with a high degree of certainty we are responsible. When the science doesn't conform to your world view how about we call it pseudo science, I'm surprised you're not calling it witchcraft.

Yes pretty close to witchcraft with the magic numbers except magic you usually dont see it, but the manipulating of temperature data is easily seen now we know what we are looking at.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 21st, 2012 at 2:41pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 12:41pm:

MOTR wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 5:26am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:36pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:26pm:
Deniers are just the same fools that buy any old rubbish fed to them by the wealthy and powerful business lobby groups.
We see it time and time again and the only surprising thing is that in this day and age anyone could let themselves be so obviously manipulated.

AGW loons are exaclty like the doomsday cultists. The end of the world is nigh...... cookoo cookoo


Are you still going, progs? I wonder what your vested interest might be. Is it fear of facing your own gullibility or fear of facing reality.

Vested interest is real science, not pseudo science. Real debate, not gatekeeping and especially of all, no to socialists/marxists taking over an agenda and making it their own.


You mean the vested interests, like those backing the Heartland Institute? That would be the Koch brothers, who are big in the Energy game.

The Heartland Institute, who fund "spin campaigns", such as -
1) Stop Teaching Climate Change
2) There's not such thing as Climate Change
3) The Tea Party (US Ring Wing Political Party)
4) Peak Oil Doesn't exist
 
Real debate is something these sort of people have no interest in, their only interest is, "SELF INTEREST"! 

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by tonegunman1 on Jul 21st, 2012 at 3:39pm

MOTR wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 1:24pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 12:41pm:

MOTR wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 5:26am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:36pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:26pm:
Deniers are just the same fools that buy any old rubbish fed to them by the wealthy and powerful business lobby groups.
We see it time and time again and the only surprising thing is that in this day and age anyone could let themselves be so obviously manipulated.

AGW loons are exaclty like the doomsday cultists. The end of the world is nigh...... cookoo cookoo


Are you still going, progs? I wonder what your vested interest might be. Is it fear of facing your own gullibility or fear of facing reality.

Vested interest is real science, not pseudo science. Real debate, not gatekeeping and especially of all, no to socialists/marxists taking over an agenda and making it their own.


Mate, last time I looked the real scientist were telling us the world is warming and that with a high degree of certainty we are responsible. When the science doesn't conform to your world view how about we call it pseudo science, I'm surprised you're not calling it witchcraft.


The world is warming...so what...
"Real scientist"...I'm still waiting for Jolly to name a single signatory with a degree in "climatology".
So last to you looked these climatologists...sorry scientists (I hope there not those ones that Jolly says just walked past a university to get their degrees) were telling us that the world was warming and that with a high degree of certainty we are responsible. So that is rejecting the null hypothesis to the .05 or .01 confidence level where we are responsible for 100% of this effect. Because you state this without reference to any other cause and nor apparently do your "real scientists".
Are you just being deliberately misleading?...because I think even perceptions will say that the earth is warming regardless.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Gist on Jul 21st, 2012 at 3:45pm
Didn't you people know?

LIEBERALS WILL DECIDE WHAT REAL SCIENCE COMES INTO THIS COUNTRY AND THE CIRCUMSTANCES IN WHICH IT WILL COME!

It's their answer to everything.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 21st, 2012 at 9:32pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 2:41pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 12:41pm:

MOTR wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 5:26am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:36pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:26pm:
Deniers are just the same fools that buy any old rubbish fed to them by the wealthy and powerful business lobby groups.
We see it time and time again and the only surprising thing is that in this day and age anyone could let themselves be so obviously manipulated.

AGW loons are exaclty like the doomsday cultists. The end of the world is nigh...... cookoo cookoo


Are you still going, progs? I wonder what your vested interest might be. Is it fear of facing your own gullibility or fear of facing reality.

Vested interest is real science, not pseudo science. Real debate, not gatekeeping and especially of all, no to socialists/marxists taking over an agenda and making it their own.


You mean the vested interests, like those backing the Heartland Institute? That would be the Koch brothers, who are big in the Energy game.

The Heartland Institute, who fund "spin campaigns", such as -
1) Stop Teaching Climate Change
2) There's not such thing as Climate Change
3) The Tea Party (US Ring Wing Political Party)
4) Peak Oil Doesn't exist
 
Real debate is something these sort of people have no interest in, their only interest is, "SELF INTEREST"! 

I would assume that someone like you with a bent to soress would understand.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 21st, 2012 at 9:47pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 9:32pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 2:41pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 12:41pm:

MOTR wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 5:26am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:36pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:26pm:
Deniers are just the same fools that buy any old rubbish fed to them by the wealthy and powerful business lobby groups.
We see it time and time again and the only surprising thing is that in this day and age anyone could let themselves be so obviously manipulated.

AGW loons are exaclty like the doomsday cultists. The end of the world is nigh...... cookoo cookoo


Are you still going, progs? I wonder what your vested interest might be. Is it fear of facing your own gullibility or fear of facing reality.

Vested interest is real science, not pseudo science. Real debate, not gatekeeping and especially of all, no to socialists/marxists taking over an agenda and making it their own.


You mean the vested interests, like those backing the Heartland Institute? That would be the Koch brothers, who are big in the Energy game.

The Heartland Institute, who fund "spin campaigns", such as -
1) Stop Teaching Climate Change
2) There's not such thing as Climate Change
3) The Tea Party (US Ring Wing Political Party)
4) Peak Oil Doesn't exist
 
Real debate is something these sort of people have no interest in, their only interest is, "SELF INTEREST"! 

I would assume that someone like you with a bent to soress would understand.


Gee, you've got me there Progs, PLEASE EXPLAIN?

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by MOTR on Jul 21st, 2012 at 11:29pm

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 3:39pm:

MOTR wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 1:24pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 12:41pm:

MOTR wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 5:26am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:36pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:26pm:
Deniers are just the same fools that buy any old rubbish fed to them by the wealthy and powerful business lobby groups.
We see it time and time again and the only surprising thing is that in this day and age anyone could let themselves be so obviously manipulated.

AGW loons are exaclty like the doomsday cultists. The end of the world is nigh...... cookoo cookoo


Are you still going, progs? I wonder what your vested interest might be. Is it fear of facing your own gullibility or fear of facing reality.

Vested interest is real science, not pseudo science. Real debate, not gatekeeping and especially of all, no to socialists/marxists taking over an agenda and making it their own.


Mate, last time I looked the real scientist were telling us the world is warming and that with a high degree of certainty we are responsible. When the science doesn't conform to your world view how about we call it pseudo science, I'm surprised you're not calling it witchcraft.


The world is warming...so what...
"Real scientist"...I'm still waiting for Jolly to name a single signatory with a degree in "climatology".
So last to you looked these climatologists...sorry scientists (I hope there not those ones that Jolly says just walked past a university to get their degrees) were telling us that the world was warming and that with a high degree of certainty we are responsible. So that is rejecting the null hypothesis to the .05 or .01 confidence level where we are responsible for 100% of this effect. Because you state this without reference to any other cause and nor apparently do your "real scientists".
Are you just being deliberately misleading?...because I think even perceptions will say that the earth is warming regardless.


Can you clear up the syntax and try again. Are you saying warming has to be 100% anthropogenic to be attributable to us?

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by tonegunman1 on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 9:24am

MOTR wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 11:29pm:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 3:39pm:

MOTR wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 1:24pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 12:41pm:

MOTR wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 5:26am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:36pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:26pm:
Deniers are just the same fools that buy any old rubbish fed to them by the wealthy and powerful business lobby groups.
We see it time and time again and the only surprising thing is that in this day and age anyone could let themselves be so obviously manipulated.

AGW loons are exaclty like the doomsday cultists. The end of the world is nigh...... cookoo cookoo


Are you still going, progs? I wonder what your vested interest might be. Is it fear of facing your own gullibility or fear of facing reality.

Vested interest is real science, not pseudo science. Real debate, not gatekeeping and especially of all, no to socialists/marxists taking over an agenda and making it their own.


Mate, last time I looked the real scientist were telling us the world is warming and that with a high degree of certainty we are responsible. When the science doesn't conform to your world view how about we call it pseudo science, I'm surprised you're not calling it witchcraft.


The world is warming...so what...
"Real scientist"...I'm still waiting for Jolly to name a single signatory with a degree in "climatology".
So last to you looked these climatologists...sorry scientists (I hope there not those ones that Jolly says just walked past a university to get their degrees) were telling us that the world was warming and that with a high degree of certainty we are responsible. So that is rejecting the null hypothesis to the .05 or .01 confidence level where we are responsible for 100% of this effect. Because you state this without reference to any other cause and nor apparently do your "real scientists".
Are you just being deliberately misleading?...because I think even perceptions will say that the earth is warming regardless.


Can you clear up the syntax and try again. Are you saying warming has to be 100% anthropogenic to be attributable to us?


You say the world is in peril and the first thing out of you vacuous head is about syntax. Bravo.
Are you saying warming has to be 0% anthropogenic to be unattributable to us?
You make sweeping statements that you can't back up with anything of substance and instead you lapse into being the grammar police.



Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 9:33am
WTF id the problem here? Who cares who caused it Its happening and we need to try and fix it or we prolly wont survive.

SOB

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by adelcrow on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 9:36am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 9:33am:
WTF id the problem here? Who cares who caused it Its happening and we need to try and fix it or we prolly wont survive.

SOB


Only when Alan Jones and Andrew Bolt says its ok

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by MOTR on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 10:26am

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 9:24am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 11:29pm:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 3:39pm:

MOTR wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 1:24pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 12:41pm:

MOTR wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 5:26am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:36pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 3:26pm:
Deniers are just the same fools that buy any old rubbish fed to them by the wealthy and powerful business lobby groups.
We see it time and time again and the only surprising thing is that in this day and age anyone could let themselves be so obviously manipulated.

AGW loons are exaclty like the doomsday cultists. The end of the world is nigh...... cookoo cookoo


Are you still going, progs? I wonder what your vested interest might be. Is it fear of facing your own gullibility or fear of facing reality.

Vested interest is real science, not pseudo science. Real debate, not gatekeeping and especially of all, no to socialists/marxists taking over an agenda and making it their own.


Mate, last time I looked the real scientist were telling us the world is warming and that with a high degree of certainty we are responsible. When the science doesn't conform to your world view how about we call it pseudo science, I'm surprised you're not calling it witchcraft.


The world is warming...so what...
"Real scientist"...I'm still waiting for Jolly to name a single signatory with a degree in "climatology".
So last to you looked these climatologists...sorry scientists (I hope there not those ones that Jolly says just walked past a university to get their degrees) were telling us that the world was warming and that with a high degree of certainty we are responsible. So that is rejecting the null hypothesis to the .05 or .01 confidence level where we are responsible for 100% of this effect. Because you state this without reference to any other cause and nor apparently do your "real scientists".
Are you just being deliberately misleading?...because I think even perceptions will say that the earth is warming regardless.


Can you clear up the syntax and try again. Are you saying warming has to be 100% anthropogenic to be attributable to us?


You say the world is in peril and the first thing out of you vacuous head is about syntax. Bravo.
Are you saying warming has to be 0% anthropogenic to be unattributable to us?
You make sweeping statements that you can't back up with anything of substance and instead you lapse into being the grammar police.


Grammar is important. It helps the other person understand what you are saying. Your null hypothesis just doesn't make sense.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by adelcrow on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 10:29am
Science is for losers..why do we need it when we have a 3000 yr old book written by wandering middle eastern desert nomads to base everything on?

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 2:39pm
For those, who think these LNP LOONS are correct, PLEASE EXPLAIN -

How is that wrong to teach, what is the best scientific known knowledge at the time & then allow students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.

How is that anything other than best scientific practice?

Currently, the best Climate Change Knowledge is as stated by the United Nations & many Peak scientific organizations, including the following –
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/
http://www.noaa.gov/climate.html
http://www.csiro.au/

These organizations are basically scientific, unlike the "spin campaigns" of vested interests, such as those mounted by the Heartland Institute, which is backed by the Koch brothers, who are big in the Energy game.

The Heartland Institute, fund campaigns such as -
1) Stop Teaching Climate Change
2) There's not such thing as Climate Change
3) The Tea Party (US Ring Wing Political Party)
4) Peak Oil Doesn't exist

Real debate is something these people have no interest in, their only interest is, "SELF INTEREST"!

In saying that we should teach what is the best scientific known knowledge of the time, it must also be said that things are seldom final. In fact, they are usually in a state of flux, which is why even the best knowledge of the time, must be subject to scrutiny, so it can be proved or disproved or refined, as new knowledge comes to hand.

That said, IF it or anything else, can't be taught to students, it hasn't got much chance of being proved or disproved!

So, the question is what are these LNP LOONS doing, IF they delete what is currently best know knowledge, from the curriculum?

As Mozza may put it, these LNP LOONS should watch out, because the Climate Change Karma, may just run over their consensus Dogma BS!

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 7:31pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 2:39pm:
For those, who think these LNP LOONS are correct, PLEASE EXPLAIN -

How is that wrong to teach, what is the best scientific known knowledge at the time & then allow students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.
How is that anything other than best scientific practice?

Currently, the best Climate Change Knowledge is as stated by the United Nations & many Peak scientific organizations, including the following –
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/
http://www.noaa.gov/climate.html
http://www.csiro.au/

These organizations are basically scientific, unlike the "spin campaigns" of vested interests, such as those mounted by the Heartland Institute, which is backed by the Koch brothers, who are big in the Energy game.

The Heartland Institute, fund campaigns such as -
1) Stop Teaching Climate Change
2) There's not such thing as Climate Change
3) The Tea Party (US Ring Wing Political Party)
4) Peak Oil Doesn't exist

Real debate is something these people have no interest in, their only interest is, "SELF INTEREST"!

In saying that we should teach what is the best scientific known knowledge of the time, it must also be said that things are seldom final. In fact, they are usually in a state of flux, which is why even the best knowledge of the time, must be subject to scrutiny, so it can be proved or disproved or refined, as new knowledge comes to hand.

That said, IF it or anything else, can't be taught to students, it hasn't got much chance of being proved or disproved!

So, the question is what are these LNP LOONS doing, IF they delete what is currently best know knowledge, from the curriculum?

As Mozza may put it, these LNP LOONS should watch out, because the Climate Change Karma, may just run over their consensus Dogma BS!

How is that wrong to teach, what is the best scientific known knowledge at the time & then allow students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.


Couldn't go past that.

We have seen the gate-keeping in the pseudo science of mann-made climate change. It would only get worse in the teachings of said gate-keeping. If you will not allow scientists to prove the theory wrong in the actual science arena, what makes you come up with the absurd statement that you did.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:07pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 7:31pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 2:39pm:
For those, who think these LNP LOONS are correct, PLEASE EXPLAIN -

How is that wrong to teach, what is the best scientific known knowledge at the time & then allow students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.
How is that anything other than best scientific practice?

Currently, the best Climate Change Knowledge is as stated by the United Nations & many Peak scientific organizations, including the following –
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/
http://www.noaa.gov/climate.html
http://www.csiro.au/

These organizations are basically scientific, unlike the "spin campaigns" of vested interests, such as those mounted by the Heartland Institute, which is backed by the Koch brothers, who are big in the Energy game.

The Heartland Institute, fund campaigns such as -
1) Stop Teaching Climate Change
2) There's not such thing as Climate Change
3) The Tea Party (US Ring Wing Political Party)
4) Peak Oil Doesn't exist

Real debate is something these people have no interest in, their only interest is, "SELF INTEREST"!

In saying that we should teach what is the best scientific known knowledge of the time, it must also be said that things are seldom final. In fact, they are usually in a state of flux, which is why even the best knowledge of the time, must be subject to scrutiny, so it can be proved or disproved or refined, as new knowledge comes to hand.

That said, IF it or anything else, can't be taught to students, it hasn't got much chance of being proved or disproved!

So, the question is what are these LNP LOONS doing, IF they delete what is currently best know knowledge, from the curriculum?

As Mozza may put it, these LNP LOONS should watch out, because the Climate Change Karma, may just run over their consensus Dogma BS!

How is that wrong to teach, what is the best scientific known knowledge at the time & then allow students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.


Couldn't go past that.

We have seen the gate-keeping in the pseudo science of mann-made climate change. It would only get worse in the teachings of said gate-keeping. If you will not allow scientists to prove the theory wrong in the actual science arena, what makes you come up with the absurd statement that you did.


1) I seriously doubt, IF you even read what other people write OR what you write in return. Being able to prove &/or disprove theories, applies equally to the best, current theories, as well as the LOONEY fringe ones!

I assume that you have no sensible answers for the balance of my post & that's why you didn't respond to the other points!

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:09pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:07pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 7:31pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 2:39pm:
For those, who think these LNP LOONS are correct, PLEASE EXPLAIN -

How is that wrong to teach, what is the best scientific known knowledge at the time & then allow students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.
How is that anything other than best scientific practice?

Currently, the best Climate Change Knowledge is as stated by the United Nations & many Peak scientific organizations, including the following –
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/
http://www.noaa.gov/climate.html
http://www.csiro.au/

These organizations are basically scientific, unlike the "spin campaigns" of vested interests, such as those mounted by the Heartland Institute, which is backed by the Koch brothers, who are big in the Energy game.

The Heartland Institute, fund campaigns such as -
1) Stop Teaching Climate Change
2) There's not such thing as Climate Change
3) The Tea Party (US Ring Wing Political Party)
4) Peak Oil Doesn't exist

Real debate is something these people have no interest in, their only interest is, "SELF INTEREST"!

In saying that we should teach what is the best scientific known knowledge of the time, it must also be said that things are seldom final. In fact, they are usually in a state of flux, which is why even the best knowledge of the time, must be subject to scrutiny, so it can be proved or disproved or refined, as new knowledge comes to hand.

That said, IF it or anything else, can't be taught to students, it hasn't got much chance of being proved or disproved!

So, the question is what are these LNP LOONS doing, IF they delete what is currently best know knowledge, from the curriculum?

As Mozza may put it, these LNP LOONS should watch out, because the Climate Change Karma, may just run over their consensus Dogma BS!

How is that wrong to teach, what is the best scientific known knowledge at the time & then allow students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.


Couldn't go past that.

We have seen the gate-keeping in the pseudo science of mann-made climate change. It would only get worse in the teachings of said gate-keeping. If you will not allow scientists to prove the theory wrong in the actual science arena, what makes you come up with the absurd statement that you did.


1) I seriously doubt, IF you even read what other people write OR what you write in return. Being able to prove &/or disprove theories, applies equally to the best, current theories, as well as the LOONEY fringe ones!

I assume that you have no sensible answers for the balance of my post & that's why you didn't respond to the other points!

If you are going to start off with the most stupid statement first, I suggest you leave it last so we can have some confidence we are not reading dribble until the very end atleast.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by longweekend58 on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:12pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 7:31pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 2:39pm:
For those, who think these LNP LOONS are correct, PLEASE EXPLAIN -

How is that wrong to teach, what is the best scientific known knowledge at the time & then allow students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.
How is that anything other than best scientific practice?

Currently, the best Climate Change Knowledge is as stated by the United Nations & many Peak scientific organizations, including the following –
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/
http://www.noaa.gov/climate.html
http://www.csiro.au/

These organizations are basically scientific, unlike the "spin campaigns" of vested interests, such as those mounted by the Heartland Institute, which is backed by the Koch brothers, who are big in the Energy game.

The Heartland Institute, fund campaigns such as -
1) Stop Teaching Climate Change
2) There's not such thing as Climate Change
3) The Tea Party (US Ring Wing Political Party)
4) Peak Oil Doesn't exist

Real debate is something these people have no interest in, their only interest is, "SELF INTEREST"!

In saying that we should teach what is the best scientific known knowledge of the time, it must also be said that things are seldom final. In fact, they are usually in a state of flux, which is why even the best knowledge of the time, must be subject to scrutiny, so it can be proved or disproved or refined, as new knowledge comes to hand.

That said, IF it or anything else, can't be taught to students, it hasn't got much chance of being proved or disproved!

So, the question is what are these LNP LOONS doing, IF they delete what is currently best know knowledge, from the curriculum?

As Mozza may put it, these LNP LOONS should watch out, because the Climate Change Karma, may just run over their consensus Dogma BS!

How is that wrong to teach, what is the best scientific known knowledge at the time & then allow students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.


Couldn't go past that.

We have seen the gate-keeping in the pseudo science of mann-made climate change. It would only get worse in the teachings of said gate-keeping. If you will not allow scientists to prove the theory wrong in the actual science arena, what makes you come up with the absurd statement that you did.


perceptions is a loon himself. ACC is garbage as it is an extremist doctrine not supported by actual events - just a climate model which has never yet been right and constantly changes.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:17pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:09pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:07pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 7:31pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 2:39pm:
For those, who think these LNP LOONS are correct, PLEASE EXPLAIN -

How is that wrong to teach, what is the best scientific known knowledge at the time & then allow students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.
How is that anything other than best scientific practice?

Currently, the best Climate Change Knowledge is as stated by the United Nations & many Peak scientific organizations, including the following –
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/
http://www.noaa.gov/climate.html
http://www.csiro.au/

These organizations are basically scientific, unlike the "spin campaigns" of vested interests, such as those mounted by the Heartland Institute, which is backed by the Koch brothers, who are big in the Energy game.

The Heartland Institute, fund campaigns such as -
1) Stop Teaching Climate Change
2) There's not such thing as Climate Change
3) The Tea Party (US Ring Wing Political Party)
4) Peak Oil Doesn't exist

Real debate is something these people have no interest in, their only interest is, "SELF INTEREST"!

In saying that we should teach what is the best scientific known knowledge of the time, it must also be said that things are seldom final. In fact, they are usually in a state of flux, which is why even the best knowledge of the time, must be subject to scrutiny, so it can be proved or disproved or refined, as new knowledge comes to hand.

That said, IF it or anything else, can't be taught to students, it hasn't got much chance of being proved or disproved!

So, the question is what are these LNP LOONS doing, IF they delete what is currently best know knowledge, from the curriculum?

As Mozza may put it, these LNP LOONS should watch out, because the Climate Change Karma, may just run over their consensus Dogma BS!

How is that wrong to teach, what is the best scientific known knowledge at the time & then allow students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.


Couldn't go past that.

We have seen the gate-keeping in the pseudo science of mann-made climate change. It would only get worse in the teachings of said gate-keeping. If you will not allow scientists to prove the theory wrong in the actual science arena, what makes you come up with the absurd statement that you did.


1) I seriously doubt, IF you even read what other people write OR what you write in return. Being able to prove &/or disprove theories, applies equally to the best, current theories, as well as the LOONEY fringe ones!

I assume that you have no sensible answers for the balance of my post & that's why you didn't respond to the other points!

If you are going to start off with the most stupid statement first, I suggest you leave it last so we can have some confidence we are not reading dribble until the very end atleast.


1) You made an absolute hash out of your comment, because I am obviously in favour of full scientific scrutiny, to both the best & worst of theories, which is the proper scientific approach!

2) It is apparent that you have no sensible answers for the balance of my post & that's why you still haven't responded to the other points!

Are the LNP LOONS & the Heartland Institute running out of quality "spin" operators?

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by longweekend58 on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:18pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:17pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:09pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:07pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 7:31pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 2:39pm:
For those, who think these LNP LOONS are correct, PLEASE EXPLAIN -

How is that wrong to teach, what is the best scientific known knowledge at the time & then allow students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.
How is that anything other than best scientific practice?

Currently, the best Climate Change Knowledge is as stated by the United Nations & many Peak scientific organizations, including the following –
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/
http://www.noaa.gov/climate.html
http://www.csiro.au/

These organizations are basically scientific, unlike the "spin campaigns" of vested interests, such as those mounted by the Heartland Institute, which is backed by the Koch brothers, who are big in the Energy game.

The Heartland Institute, fund campaigns such as -
1) Stop Teaching Climate Change
2) There's not such thing as Climate Change
3) The Tea Party (US Ring Wing Political Party)
4) Peak Oil Doesn't exist

Real debate is something these people have no interest in, their only interest is, "SELF INTEREST"!

In saying that we should teach what is the best scientific known knowledge of the time, it must also be said that things are seldom final. In fact, they are usually in a state of flux, which is why even the best knowledge of the time, must be subject to scrutiny, so it can be proved or disproved or refined, as new knowledge comes to hand.

That said, IF it or anything else, can't be taught to students, it hasn't got much chance of being proved or disproved!

So, the question is what are these LNP LOONS doing, IF they delete what is currently best know knowledge, from the curriculum?

As Mozza may put it, these LNP LOONS should watch out, because the Climate Change Karma, may just run over their consensus Dogma BS!

How is that wrong to teach, what is the best scientific known knowledge at the time & then allow students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.


Couldn't go past that.

We have seen the gate-keeping in the pseudo science of mann-made climate change. It would only get worse in the teachings of said gate-keeping. If you will not allow scientists to prove the theory wrong in the actual science arena, what makes you come up with the absurd statement that you did.


1) I seriously doubt, IF you even read what other people write OR what you write in return. Being able to prove &/or disprove theories, applies equally to the best, current theories, as well as the LOONEY fringe ones!

I assume that you have no sensible answers for the balance of my post & that's why you didn't respond to the other points!

If you are going to start off with the most stupid statement first, I suggest you leave it last so we can have some confidence we are not reading dribble until the very end atleast.


1) You made an absolute hash out of your comment, because I am obviously in favour of full scientific scrutiny, to both the best & worst of theories, which is the proper scientific approach!

2) It is apparent that you have no sensible answers for the balance of my post & that's why you still haven't responded to the other points!

Are the LNP LOONS & the Heartland Institute running out of quality "spin" operators?


you have no idea of what 'full scientific scrutiny' means, otherwise you wouldnt be supporting ACC in its current form

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:19pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:12pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 7:31pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 2:39pm:
For those, who think these LNP LOONS are correct, PLEASE EXPLAIN -

How is that wrong to teach, what is the best scientific known knowledge at the time & then allow students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.
How is that anything other than best scientific practice?

Currently, the best Climate Change Knowledge is as stated by the United Nations & many Peak scientific organizations, including the following –
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/
http://www.noaa.gov/climate.html
http://www.csiro.au/

These organizations are basically scientific, unlike the "spin campaigns" of vested interests, such as those mounted by the Heartland Institute, which is backed by the Koch brothers, who are big in the Energy game.

The Heartland Institute, fund campaigns such as -
1) Stop Teaching Climate Change
2) There's not such thing as Climate Change
3) The Tea Party (US Ring Wing Political Party)
4) Peak Oil Doesn't exist

Real debate is something these people have no interest in, their only interest is, "SELF INTEREST"!

In saying that we should teach what is the best scientific known knowledge of the time, it must also be said that things are seldom final. In fact, they are usually in a state of flux, which is why even the best knowledge of the time, must be subject to scrutiny, so it can be proved or disproved or refined, as new knowledge comes to hand.

That said, IF it or anything else, can't be taught to students, it hasn't got much chance of being proved or disproved!

So, the question is what are these LNP LOONS doing, IF they delete what is currently best know knowledge, from the curriculum?

As Mozza may put it, these LNP LOONS should watch out, because the Climate Change Karma, may just run over their consensus Dogma BS!

How is that wrong to teach, what is the best scientific known knowledge at the time & then allow students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.


Couldn't go past that.

We have seen the gate-keeping in the pseudo science of mann-made climate change. It would only get worse in the teachings of said gate-keeping. If you will not allow scientists to prove the theory wrong in the actual science arena, what makes you come up with the absurd statement that you did.


perceptions is a loon himself. ACC is garbage as it is an extremist doctrine not supported by actual events - just a climate model which has never yet been right and constantly changes.


If you have any real content to post, then I welcome it!

If you are simply here to do your usual & run off at members, then don't bother!

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:24pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:17pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:09pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:07pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 7:31pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 2:39pm:
For those, who think these LNP LOONS are correct, PLEASE EXPLAIN -

How is that wrong to teach, what is the best scientific known knowledge at the time & then allow students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.
How is that anything other than best scientific practice?

Currently, the best Climate Change Knowledge is as stated by the United Nations & many Peak scientific organizations, including the following –
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/
http://www.noaa.gov/climate.html
http://www.csiro.au/

These organizations are basically scientific, unlike the "spin campaigns" of vested interests, such as those mounted by the Heartland Institute, which is backed by the Koch brothers, who are big in the Energy game.

The Heartland Institute, fund campaigns such as -
1) Stop Teaching Climate Change
2) There's not such thing as Climate Change
3) The Tea Party (US Ring Wing Political Party)
4) Peak Oil Doesn't exist

Real debate is something these people have no interest in, their only interest is, "SELF INTEREST"!

In saying that we should teach what is the best scientific known knowledge of the time, it must also be said that things are seldom final. In fact, they are usually in a state of flux, which is why even the best knowledge of the time, must be subject to scrutiny, so it can be proved or disproved or refined, as new knowledge comes to hand.

That said, IF it or anything else, can't be taught to students, it hasn't got much chance of being proved or disproved!

So, the question is what are these LNP LOONS doing, IF they delete what is currently best know knowledge, from the curriculum?

As Mozza may put it, these LNP LOONS should watch out, because the Climate Change Karma, may just run over their consensus Dogma BS!

How is that wrong to teach, what is the best scientific known knowledge at the time & then allow students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.


Couldn't go past that.

We have seen the gate-keeping in the pseudo science of mann-made climate change. It would only get worse in the teachings of said gate-keeping. If you will not allow scientists to prove the theory wrong in the actual science arena, what makes you come up with the absurd statement that you did.


1) I seriously doubt, IF you even read what other people write OR what you write in return. Being able to prove &/or disprove theories, applies equally to the best, current theories, as well as the LOONEY fringe ones!

I assume that you have no sensible answers for the balance of my post & that's why you didn't respond to the other points!

If you are going to start off with the most stupid statement first, I suggest you leave it last so we can have some confidence we are not reading dribble until the very end atleast.


1) You made an absolute hash out of your comment, because I am obviously in favour of full scientific scrutiny, to both the best & worst of theories, which is the proper scientific approach!

2) It is apparent that you have no sensible answers for the balance of my post & that's why you still haven't responded to the other points!

Are the LNP LOONS & the Heartland Institute running out of quality "spin" operators?

Who cares what you support. The pseudo science nuts do not support what you speak of. The teachings would not be able to escape the clutches of these nut job pseudo scientists, nor the environmentalist freaks in the IPCC.

Teach climate science when climate science becomes science. When the climate science grows up. Not until that happens.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:52pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:24pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:17pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:09pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:07pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 7:31pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 2:39pm:
For those, who think these LNP LOONS are correct, PLEASE EXPLAIN -

How is that wrong to teach, what is the best scientific known knowledge at the time & then allow students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.
How is that anything other than best scientific practice?

Currently, the best Climate Change Knowledge is as stated by the United Nations & many Peak scientific organizations, including the following –
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/
http://www.noaa.gov/climate.html
http://www.csiro.au/

These organizations are basically scientific, unlike the "spin campaigns" of vested interests, such as those mounted by the Heartland Institute, which is backed by the Koch brothers, who are big in the Energy game.

The Heartland Institute, fund campaigns such as -
1) Stop Teaching Climate Change
2) There's not such thing as Climate Change
3) The Tea Party (US Ring Wing Political Party)
4) Peak Oil Doesn't exist

Real debate is something these people have no interest in, their only interest is, "SELF INTEREST"!

In saying that we should teach what is the best scientific known knowledge of the time, it must also be said that things are seldom final. In fact, they are usually in a state of flux, which is why even the best knowledge of the time, must be subject to scrutiny, so it can be proved or disproved or refined, as new knowledge comes to hand.

That said, IF it or anything else, can't be taught to students, it hasn't got much chance of being proved or disproved!

So, the question is what are these LNP LOONS doing, IF they delete what is currently best know knowledge, from the curriculum?

As Mozza may put it, these LNP LOONS should watch out, because the Climate Change Karma, may just run over their consensus Dogma BS!

How is that wrong to teach, what is the best scientific known knowledge at the time & then allow students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.


Couldn't go past that.

We have seen the gate-keeping in the pseudo science of mann-made climate change. It would only get worse in the teachings of said gate-keeping. If you will not allow scientists to prove the theory wrong in the actual science arena, what makes you come up with the absurd statement that you did.


1) I seriously doubt, IF you even read what other people write OR what you write in return. Being able to prove &/or disprove theories, applies equally to the best, current theories, as well as the LOONEY fringe ones!

I assume that you have no sensible answers for the balance of my post & that's why you didn't respond to the other points!

If you are going to start off with the most stupid statement first, I suggest you leave it last so we can have some confidence we are not reading dribble until the very end atleast.


1) You made an absolute hash out of your comment, because I am obviously in favour of full scientific scrutiny, to both the best & worst of theories, which is the proper scientific approach!

2) It is apparent that you have no sensible answers for the balance of my post & that's why you still haven't responded to the other points!

Are the LNP LOONS & the Heartland Institute running out of quality "spin" operators?

Who cares what you support. The pseudo science nuts do not support what you speak of. The teachings would not be able to escape the clutches of these nut job pseudo scientists, nor the environmentalist freaks in the IPCC.

Teach climate science when climate science becomes science. When the climate science grows up. Not until that happens.


Well organiztions like the United Nations & many Peak scientific organizations, including the following –
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/
http://www.noaa.gov/climate.html
http://www.csiro.au/

disagree with you, the Heartland Institute & the LNP LOONS!

Frankly, there's not much real content to your answers & they just don't stack up, so I'll side with the UN, NASA, NOAA & the CSIRO!


Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 9:03pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:52pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:24pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:17pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:09pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:07pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 7:31pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 2:39pm:
For those, who think these LNP LOONS are correct, PLEASE EXPLAIN -

How is that wrong to teach, what is the best scientific known knowledge at the time & then allow students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.
How is that anything other than best scientific practice?

Currently, the best Climate Change Knowledge is as stated by the United Nations & many Peak scientific organizations, including the following –
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/
http://www.noaa.gov/climate.html
http://www.csiro.au/

These organizations are basically scientific, unlike the "spin campaigns" of vested interests, such as those mounted by the Heartland Institute, which is backed by the Koch brothers, who are big in the Energy game.

The Heartland Institute, fund campaigns such as -
1) Stop Teaching Climate Change
2) There's not such thing as Climate Change
3) The Tea Party (US Ring Wing Political Party)
4) Peak Oil Doesn't exist

Real debate is something these people have no interest in, their only interest is, "SELF INTEREST"!

In saying that we should teach what is the best scientific known knowledge of the time, it must also be said that things are seldom final. In fact, they are usually in a state of flux, which is why even the best knowledge of the time, must be subject to scrutiny, so it can be proved or disproved or refined, as new knowledge comes to hand.

That said, IF it or anything else, can't be taught to students, it hasn't got much chance of being proved or disproved!

So, the question is what are these LNP LOONS doing, IF they delete what is currently best know knowledge, from the curriculum?

As Mozza may put it, these LNP LOONS should watch out, because the Climate Change Karma, may just run over their consensus Dogma BS!

How is that wrong to teach, what is the best scientific known knowledge at the time & then allow students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.


Couldn't go past that.

We have seen the gate-keeping in the pseudo science of mann-made climate change. It would only get worse in the teachings of said gate-keeping. If you will not allow scientists to prove the theory wrong in the actual science arena, what makes you come up with the absurd statement that you did.


1) I seriously doubt, IF you even read what other people write OR what you write in return. Being able to prove &/or disprove theories, applies equally to the best, current theories, as well as the LOONEY fringe ones!

I assume that you have no sensible answers for the balance of my post & that's why you didn't respond to the other points!

If you are going to start off with the most stupid statement first, I suggest you leave it last so we can have some confidence we are not reading dribble until the very end atleast.


1) You made an absolute hash out of your comment, because I am obviously in favour of full scientific scrutiny, to both the best & worst of theories, which is the proper scientific approach!

2) It is apparent that you have no sensible answers for the balance of my post & that's why you still haven't responded to the other points!

Are the LNP LOONS & the Heartland Institute running out of quality "spin" operators?

Who cares what you support. The pseudo science nuts do not support what you speak of. The teachings would not be able to escape the clutches of these nut job pseudo scientists, nor the environmentalist freaks in the IPCC.

Teach climate science when climate science becomes science. When the climate science grows up. Not until that happens.


Well organiztions like the United Nations & many Peak scientific organizations, including the following –
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/
http://www.noaa.gov/climate.html
http://www.csiro.au/

disagree with you, the Heartland Institute & the LNP LOONS!

Frankly, there's not much real content to your answers & they just don't stack up, so I'll side with the UN, NASA, NOAA & the CSIRO!

I have as much content as you have provided.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 9:18pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 9:03pm:
I have as much content as you have provided.


All you have is -
Credible
Reliable
Abundant
Paradoxes

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 9:25pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 9:18pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 9:03pm:
I have as much content as you have provided.


All you have is -
Credible
Reliable
Abundant
Paradoxes

Like I said, I have as much content as you have provided.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 12:08am

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 9:25pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 9:18pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 9:03pm:
I have as much content as you have provided.


All you have is -
Credible
Reliable
Abundant
Paradoxes

Like I said, I have as much content as you have provided.


Let me guess Progs, your occupation, before you retired, was that of "Comedian"?


Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 1:27pm
Anyone wanting good, current information on Climate Change, can go to the following, quality scientific organizations.

The UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
http://www.ipcc.ch/ 

The US National Climate Data Centre
http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/
http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/DM_south.htm

NASA
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/

The US National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration
http://www.noaa.gov/climate.html

The Australian Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation
http://www.csiro.au/

If you want self interest & mis-information, then listen to the LNP LOONS, the US Heartland Institute (backed by big Energy) or some of the talking heads, otherwise don't bother with them!!!

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by progressiveslol on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 3:37pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 1:27pm:
Anyone wanting good, current information on Climate Change, can go to the following, quality scientific organizations.

The UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
http://www.ipcc.ch/ 

The US National Climate Data Centre
http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/
http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/DM_south.htm

NASA
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/

The US National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration
http://www.noaa.gov/climate.html

The Australian Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation
http://www.csiro.au/

If you want self interest & mis-information, then listen to the LNP LOONS, the US Heartland Institute (backed by big Energy) or some of the talking heads, otherwise don't bother with them!!!

Oh dear, you did it again.

You put IPCC first. What did I tell you about leaving your most stupid statements for last, to allow the reader to get through some of the content.

IPCC are just now backtracking from their statements of doom and gloom, non-scientific statements. They are hopefully starting to use real scientists and not uni students or having WWF influence them.

Cant get past IPCC.

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by perceptions_now on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 5:32pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 3:37pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 1:27pm:
Anyone wanting good, current information on Climate Change, can go to the following, quality scientific organizations.

The UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
http://www.ipcc.ch/ 

The US National Climate Data Centre
http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/
http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/DM_south.htm

NASA
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/

The US National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration
http://www.noaa.gov/climate.html

The Australian Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation
http://www.csiro.au/

If you want self interest & mis-information, then listen to the LNP LOONS, the US Heartland Institute (backed by big Energy) or some of the talking heads, otherwise don't bother with them!!!


Oh dear, you did it again.

You put IPCC first. What did I tell you about leaving your most stupid statements for last, to allow the reader to get through some of the content.

IPCC are just now backtracking from their statements of doom and gloom, non-scientific statements. They are hopefully starting to use real scientists and not uni students or having WWF influence them.

Cant get past IPCC.


Oh dear, you did it again!

More -
Credible
Reliable
Abundant
Paradoxes

As I said, anyone wanting good, current information on Climate Change, can go to the following, quality scientific organizations.

The UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
http://www.ipcc.ch/ 

The US National Climate Data Centre
http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/
http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/DM_south.htm

NASA
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/

The US National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration
http://www.noaa.gov/climate.html

The Australian Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation
http://www.csiro.au/

Title: Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Post by Deathridesahorse on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 5:35pm

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 3:37pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 1:27pm:
Anyone wanting good, current information on Climate Change, can go to the following, quality scientific organizations.

The UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
http://www.ipcc.ch/ 

The US National Climate Data Centre
http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/
http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/DM_south.htm

NASA
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/

The US National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration
http://www.noaa.gov/climate.html

The Australian Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation
http://www.csiro.au/

If you want self interest & mis-information, then listen to the LNP LOONS, the US Heartland Institute (backed by big Energy) or some of the talking heads, otherwise don't bother with them!!!

Oh dear, you did it again.

You put IPCC first. What did I tell you about leaving your most stupid statements for last, to allow the reader to get through some of the content.

IPCC are just now backtracking from their statements of doom and gloom, non-scientific statements. They are hopefully starting to use real scientists and not uni students or having WWF influence them.

Cant get past IPCC.

progs can't look his children in the eye!

:D :D :D

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