2012



Flow-on effect from Ford cuts: industry02:31 AEST Wed Jul 18 2012

Job losses at Ford could have a knock-on effect on suppliers, industry and union groups warn.

Ford is cutting 440 jobs at its two plants in Victoria as it reduces daily production from 209 to 148 vehicles in November in response to an industry-wide slump in large car sales.

The cuts are a sign of tough conditions facing the manufacturing sector, including the high Australian dollar, says Australian Industry Group chief executive Innes Willox.

"The decision will have repercussions up and down the supply chain especially for local auto parts makers who are already under considerable pressure," he said in a statement.

Mr Willox said both sides of politics needed to continue to develop policies to boost the sector.

"These policies and action by businesses themselves are critical to lifting manufacturing capabilities and boosting the resilience and productivity of the industry," he said.

The proposed cuts raised concerns about the viability of the auto-component industry, said ACTU secretary Dave Oliver.

"There's a significant concern about the knock-on effect. This will put significant pressure back on the component area," he told reporters on Tuesday.

But the sector would continue to have opportunities with continued investment promised by Holden and Ford, he said.

Workers will be sacked if the 440 job target cannot be met by voluntary redundancies.

Officials from the federal employment department will be at the Ford plants on Wednesday to advise workers on assistance available to them, as well as job-search and training programs.



so much for all those billions gillard swore was saving jobs!! another big lie.

Didn't the Gillard government hand out millions (or billions) to some car makers, including Ford, not too long ago?

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 7:42am:

Didn't the Gillard government hand out millions (or billions) to some car makers, including Ford, not too long ago?

Yes they did, along with the State Liberal Government who (I think) matched the Federal handout.  Crappy cars anyway!

They should just pay the workers out with a decent redundancy package rather than supporting a failing american company

How many jobs would have been lost if not for the handouts?

John Smith wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 7:53am:

How many jobs would have been lost if not for the handouts?

Probably a lot more than what actually happened John.  Unfortunately, all it seems to have done is delayed the inevitable and the job losses will occur anyway.  I also see in the papers that Thailand are offering substantial tax incentives for car manufacturing to relocate there - and Thailand Officials will visit Aust later this year for discussions.  A lot of Holden models are produced there, then fitted out in australia so that could be another issue

lisa.greek wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 8:01am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 7:53am: How many jobs would have been lost if not for the handouts? Probably a lot more than what actually happened John.  Unfortunately, all it seems to have done is delayed the inevitable and the job losses will occur anyway.  I also see in the papers that Thailand are offering substantial tax incentives for car manufacturing to relocate there - and Thailand Officials will visit Aust later this year for discussions.  A lot of Holden models are produced there, then fitted out in australia so that could be another issue

There aren't many countries that produce cars anymore and it would be a tragedy to loose the industry alltogether. I think whilst the govt. is in a position to do something about it,  they should do so ..... but even with that, there is only so much the government can do 

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 7:42am:

Didn't the Gillard government hand out millions (or billions) to some car makers, including Ford, not too long ago?

Didn't you liberal supporter jump up and down when the money was handed to the car makers?

John Smith wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 8:05am:

lisa.greek wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 8:01am: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 7:53am: How many jobs would have been lost if not for the handouts? Probably a lot more than what actually happened John.  Unfortunately, all it seems to have done is delayed the inevitable and the job losses will occur anyway.  I also see in the papers that Thailand are offering substantial tax incentives for car manufacturing to relocate there - and Thailand Officials will visit Aust later this year for discussions.  A lot of Holden models are produced there, then fitted out in australia so that could be another issue There aren't many countries that produce cars anymore and it would be a tragedy to loose the industry alltogether. I think whilst the govt. is in a position to do something about it,  they should do so ..... but even with that, there is only so much the government can do

Hyundai produce an average of 6000 vehicles per day, how can anyone justify throwing money at a company that will NEVER be able to compete.

John Smith wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 7:53am:

How many jobs would have been lost if not for the handouts?

well it didnt save jobs did it??? this is the point its been billions..to put off the inevitable by 12 months is not my idea of saving jobs.. it just makes it look as if it is...whilst a certain govt pats itself on the back.

and who let the Chinese vehicles in???

Gillard claimed in January that the last bucket of money she threw at Ford ($34 million) would create 300 jobs.

John S wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 8:06am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 7:42am: Didn't the Gillard government hand out millions (or billions) to some car makers, including Ford, not too long ago? Didn't you liberal supporter jump up and down when the money was handed to the car makers?

yes from memory... so what???.. we thought then a waste of money rudd started it..plugging a leaking ship..never did work..anyway my heart goes out to these guys... one minute they think they are secure the next... earthquake.

Shane B wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 9:21am:

Gillard claimed in January that the last bucket of money she threw at Ford ($34 million) would create 300 jobs.

just stalling shane just stalling..the rusted on sucked it up though

cods wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 9:20am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 7:53am: How many jobs would have been lost if not for the handouts? well it didnt save jobs did it??? this is the point its been billions..to put off the inevitable by 12 months is not my idea of saving jobs.. it just makes it look as if it is...whilst a certain govt pats itself on the back.

you don't know that... once again you're making up facts as you please .... how do you know they wouldn't have sacked 1000 workers if it wasn't for the handouts? YOU DON'T

Guildford wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 9:10am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 8:05am: lisa.greek wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 8:01am: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 7:53am: How many jobs would have been lost if not for the handouts? Probably a lot more than what actually happened John.  Unfortunately, all it seems to have done is delayed the inevitable and the job losses will occur anyway.  I also see in the papers that Thailand are offering substantial tax incentives for car manufacturing to relocate there - and Thailand Officials will visit Aust later this year for discussions.  A lot of Holden models are produced there, then fitted out in australia so that could be another issue There aren't many countries that produce cars anymore and it would be a tragedy to loose the industry alltogether. I think whilst the govt. is in a position to do something about it,  they should do so ..... but even with that, there is only so much the government can do  Hyundai produce an average of 6000 vehicles per day, how can anyone justify throwing money at a company that will NEVER be able to compete.

and what if we ever go to war with the Asian countries, do you plan on importing your cars ?... maybe you can ask them to send you a few tanks so that you  have something to shoot at them with .... the auto industry is a vital piece of  industry  ... if we don't keep it we will one day regret it .....

Australia can't compete. We are a high cost market for manufacturing.

The Germans have outsourced construction on Volkswagens to Mexico, Ford Focus is made in South Africa etc. We cannot compete with that unless substantial government assistance is provided.

John Smith wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 9:44am:

cods wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:20am: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 7:53am: How many jobs would have been lost if not for the handouts? well it didnt save jobs did it??? this is the point its been billions..to put off the inevitable by 12 months is not my idea of saving jobs.. it just makes it look as if it is...whilst a certain govt pats itself on the back. you don't know that... once again you're making up facts as you please .... how do you know they wouldn't have sacked 1000 workers if it wasn't for the handouts? YOU DON'T

and how do you know  they saved jobs????? you dont do you... it was all a ploy to get money from the govt.. something about a green car from memory..LOL>.

however when you ask stupid questions.. you must also see the irony..

if as you and she claim you saved 300 jobs..was there a use by date on her promise??????

you see when a company is going broke then everyone braces for the inevitable..

this way its death by starvation......

whos turn will it be next week.. and so on..

you think living like that is good for anyone???????

we all know the whole shebang will go.... just we dont know when..gillard will do what she is good at until the election though I am sure.

John Smith wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 9:48am:

Guildford wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:10am: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 8:05am: lisa.greek wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 8:01am: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 7:53am: How many jobs would have been lost if not for the handouts? Probably a lot more than what actually happened John.  Unfortunately, all it seems to have done is delayed the inevitable and the job losses will occur anyway.  I also see in the papers that Thailand are offering substantial tax incentives for car manufacturing to relocate there - and Thailand Officials will visit Aust later this year for discussions.  A lot of Holden models are produced there, then fitted out in australia so that could be another issue There aren't many countries that produce cars anymore and it would be a tragedy to loose the industry alltogether. I think whilst the govt. is in a position to do something about it,  they should do so ..... but even with that, there is only so much the government can do  Hyundai produce an average of 6000 vehicles per day, how can anyone justify throwing money at a company that will NEVER be able to compete. and what if we ever go to war with the Asian countries, do you plan on importing your cars ?... maybe you can ask them to send you a few tanks so that you  have something to shoot at them with .... the auto industry is a vital piece of  industry  ... if we don't keep it we will one day regret it .....

so you are driving a Ford Falcon then???? :D :D


please dont tell us its an imported car..

Shane B wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 9:57am:

Australia can't compete. We are a high cost market for manufacturing. The Germans have outsourced construction on Volkswagens to Mexico, Ford Focus is made in South Africa etc. We cannot compete with that unless substantial government assistance is provided.

Precisely. It costs so much more to build things here than in other countries. For example, building an airport here is about 90% more expensive than in the US. Building a school here is nearly 30% more expensive than in the US. Keep in mind that the Australian dollar is currently worth more than that of the US dollar. Unions are pricing their own people out of work with their ridiculous demands. I'm not saying our workers should be paid third-world wages, but there comes a time when they've gotta realise that the higher the wage demand, the more expensive the product becomes and the less competitive the company becomes on the international market. Unfortunately, getting Unions to understand that is like trying to get blood from a stone.

John Smith wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 9:48am:

Guildford wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:10am: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 8:05am: lisa.greek wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 8:01am: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 7:53am: How many jobs would have been lost if not for the handouts? Probably a lot more than what actually happened John.  Unfortunately, all it seems to have done is delayed the inevitable and the job losses will occur anyway.  I also see in the papers that Thailand are offering substantial tax incentives for car manufacturing to relocate there - and Thailand Officials will visit Aust later this year for discussions.  A lot of Holden models are produced there, then fitted out in australia so that could be another issue There aren't many countries that produce cars anymore and it would be a tragedy to loose the industry alltogether. I think whilst the govt. is in a position to do something about it,  they should do so ..... but even with that, there is only so much the government can do  Hyundai produce an average of 6000 vehicles per day, how can anyone justify throwing money at a company that will NEVER be able to compete. and what if we ever go to war with the Asian countries, do you plan on importing your cars ?... maybe you can ask them to send you a few tanks so that you  have something to shoot at them with .... the auto industry is a vital piece of  industry  ... if we don't keep it we will one day regret it .....

Ok then bring back the 55% tariff, to stop those pesky Asians from bringing in their new technology, GMH can go back to the 202 and Australians will be happy paying at times double the international cost of a car. (Check car prices in the 70's).

Do you really want to pour millions into an industry in case there's a war?

*shakes head in disbelief*

Ford and Holden are sh!t so its no wonder that no one with a brain would want to buy anything from theses crumbling and out dated US companies.
What a waste of taxpayer money..

adelcrow wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 4:58pm:

Ford and Holden are sh!t so its no wonder that no one with a brain would want to buy anything from theses crumbling and out dated US companies. What a waste of taxpayer money..

You tirelessly fight against Australian economic rights and only ever support corporate greed's interests. :P

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 5:02pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 4:58pm: Ford and Holden are sh!t so its no wonder that no one with a brain would want to buy anything from theses crumbling and out dated US companies. What a waste of taxpayer money.. You tirelessly fight against Australian economic rights and only ever support corporate greed's interests. :P

I support the Japanese car giants

adelcrow wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 5:04pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 5:02pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 4:58pm: Ford and Holden are sh!t so its no wonder that no one with a brain would want to buy anything from theses crumbling and out dated US companies. What a waste of taxpayer money.. You tirelessly fight against Australian economic rights and only ever support corporate greed's interests. :P I support the Japanese car giants

Yes we know you lobby tirelessly against Australian jobs & economic security and freedom.  All you ever argue for is bonuses for CEO's, compulsory gambling for pensioners and legislation preventing the military from defending Australian citizens... 8-)

John Smith wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 7:53am:

How many jobs would have been lost if not for the handouts?

How many jobs were lost when we banned whaling and sealing?
Let Ford and Holden die and invest the money in new jobs instead of handing our money to the greedy, inefficient and out dated US car giants

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 5:07pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 5:04pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 5:02pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 4:58pm: Ford and Holden are sh!t so its no wonder that no one with a brain would want to buy anything from theses crumbling and out dated US companies. What a waste of taxpayer money.. You tirelessly fight against Australian economic rights and only ever support corporate greed's interests. :P I support the Japanese car giants Yes we know you lobby tirelessly against Australian jobs & economic security and freedom.  All you ever argue for is bonuses for CEO's, compulsory gambling for pensioners and legislation preventing the military from defending Australian citizens... 8-)

Ford is a US company..not an Aussie one

adelcrow wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 5:08pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 7:53am: How many jobs would have been lost if not for the handouts? How many jobs were lost when we banned whaling and sealing? Let Ford and Holden die and invest the money in new jobs instead of handing our money to the greedy, inefficient and out dated US car giants

How about you just STFU? 8-)

cods wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 11:08am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:44am: cods wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:20am: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 7:53am: How many jobs would have been lost if not for the handouts? well it didnt save jobs did it??? this is the point its been billions..to put off the inevitable by 12 months is not my idea of saving jobs.. it just makes it look as if it is...whilst a certain govt pats itself on the back. you don't know that... once again you're making up facts as you please .... how do you know they wouldn't have sacked 1000 workers if it wasn't for the handouts? YOU DON'T and how do you know  they saved jobs????? you dont do you... it was all a ploy to get money from the govt.. something about a green car from memory..LOL>. however when you ask stupid questions.. you must also see the irony.. if as you and she claim you saved 300 jobs..was there a use by date on her promise?????? you see when a company is going broke then everyone braces for the inevitable.. this way its death by starvation...... whos turn will it be next week.. and so on.. you think living like that is good for anyone??????? we all know the whole shebang will go.... just we dont know when..gillard will do what she is good at until the election though I am sure.

were you born stupid or was it something you strived for? I didn't say she saved any jobs .. I never mentioned any 300 jobs ... you're the only one who likes to make up things .....

Guildford wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 4:52pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:48am: Guildford wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:10am: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 8:05am: lisa.greek wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 8:01am: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 7:53am: How many jobs would have been lost if not for the handouts? Probably a lot more than what actually happened John.  Unfortunately, all it seems to have done is delayed the inevitable and the job losses will occur anyway.  I also see in the papers that Thailand are offering substantial tax incentives for car manufacturing to relocate there - and Thailand Officials will visit Aust later this year for discussions.  A lot of Holden models are produced there, then fitted out in australia so that could be another issue There aren't many countries that produce cars anymore and it would be a tragedy to loose the industry alltogether. I think whilst the govt. is in a position to do something about it,  they should do so ..... but even with that, there is only so much the government can do  Hyundai produce an average of 6000 vehicles per day, how can anyone justify throwing money at a company that will NEVER be able to compete. and what if we ever go to war with the Asian countries, do you plan on importing your cars ?... maybe you can ask them to send you a few tanks so that you  have something to shoot at them with .... the auto industry is a vital piece of  industry  ... if we don't keep it we will one day regret it ..... Ok then bring back the 55% tariff, to stop those pesky Asians from bringing in their new technology, GMH can go back to the 202 and Australians will be happy paying at times double the international cost of a car. (Check car prices in the 70's). Do you really want to pour millions into an industry in case there's a war? *shakes head in disbelief*

yep ..we pour billions into defense in case there may be a war .. this is an extension of that.. no amount of money spent on defense will help us if the troops cannot get to where they need to go .

The Government could wack tariffs on the importation of motor vehicles at any time to protect the Australian Manufacturing... 8-)

John Smith wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 5:14pm:

Guildford wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 4:52pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:48am: Guildford wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:10am: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 8:05am: lisa.greek wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 8:01am: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 7:53am: How many jobs would have been lost if not for the handouts? Probably a lot more than what actually happened John.  Unfortunately, all it seems to have done is delayed the inevitable and the job losses will occur anyway.  I also see in the papers that Thailand are offering substantial tax incentives for car manufacturing to relocate there - and Thailand Officials will visit Aust later this year for discussions.  A lot of Holden models are produced there, then fitted out in australia so that could be another issue There aren't many countries that produce cars anymore and it would be a tragedy to loose the industry alltogether. I think whilst the govt. is in a position to do something about it,  they should do so ..... but even with that, there is only so much the government can do  Hyundai produce an average of 6000 vehicles per day, how can anyone justify throwing money at a company that will NEVER be able to compete. and what if we ever go to war with the Asian countries, do you plan on importing your cars ?... maybe you can ask them to send you a few tanks so that you  have something to shoot at them with .... the auto industry is a vital piece of  industry  ... if we don't keep it we will one day regret it ..... Ok then bring back the 55% tariff, to stop those pesky Asians from bringing in their new technology, GMH can go back to the 202 and Australians will be happy paying at times double the international cost of a car. (Check car prices in the 70's). Do you really want to pour millions into an industry in case there's a war? *shakes head in disbelief* yep ..we pour billions into defense in case there may be a war .. this is an extension of that.. no amount of money spent on defense will help us if the troops cannot get to where they need to go .

That's the ticket, keep filling acres of storage with subsidised cars nobody wants, just in case.........

The Government must implement  a regime of tariffs on imported goods to make Australian manufacturing more competitive.  It has a legal obligation to do this. 8-)

Guildford wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 9:40pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 5:14pm: Guildford wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 4:52pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:48am: Guildford wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:10am: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 8:05am: lisa.greek wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 8:01am: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 7:53am: How many jobs would have been lost if not for the handouts? Probably a lot more than what actually happened John.  Unfortunately, all it seems to have done is delayed the inevitable and the job losses will occur anyway.  I also see in the papers that Thailand are offering substantial tax incentives for car manufacturing to relocate there - and Thailand Officials will visit Aust later this year for discussions.  A lot of Holden models are produced there, then fitted out in australia so that could be another issue There aren't many countries that produce cars anymore and it would be a tragedy to loose the industry alltogether. I think whilst the govt. is in a position to do something about it,  they should do so ..... but even with that, there is only so much the government can do  Hyundai produce an average of 6000 vehicles per day, how can anyone justify throwing money at a company that will NEVER be able to compete. and what if we ever go to war with the Asian countries, do you plan on importing your cars ?... maybe you can ask them to send you a few tanks so that you  have something to shoot at them with .... the auto industry is a vital piece of  industry  ... if we don't keep it we will one day regret it ..... Ok then bring back the 55% tariff, to stop those pesky Asians from bringing in their new technology, GMH can go back to the 202 and Australians will be happy paying at times double the international cost of a car. (Check car prices in the 70's). Do you really want to pour millions into an industry in case there's a war? *shakes head in disbelief* yep ..we pour billions into defense in case there may be a war .. this is an extension of that.. no amount of money spent on defense will help us if the troops cannot get to where they need to go . That's the ticket, keep filling acres of storage with subsidised cars nobody wants, just in case.........

they still remain one of the top selling cars so I'm not sure how you figure no one wants them .. (don't ask me why, personally I think fords are crap ... Holdens the way to go)

Interesting that many say that our wage costs here are not competitive when compared to mant other nations, then you have the same ppl who say that then say we should protect weekend overtime/penalty rates etc.

What is it??


Now if Ford built a family sized car with the power of a V6 that could do 400Km on a tank of whatever, fuel LPG Hydrogen electricity and sold it for under 30 grand, they take the car market by storm.

Even if they build a for example a Hyundai i30 type car on electricity that cost not much to run and sold it for 20 grand, well they'd sell millions of them????

Why can't they build what ppl want??? how hard is that???

woof woof wrote on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 7:28pm:

Interesting that many say that our wage costs here are not competitive when compared to mant other nations, then you have the same ppl who say that then say we should protect weekend overtime/penalty rates etc. What is it?? Now if Ford built a family sized car with the power of a V6 that could do 400Km on a tank of whatever, fuel LPG Hydrogen electricity and sold it for under 30 grand, they take the car market by storm. Even if they build a for example a Hyundai i30 type car on electricity that cost not much to run and sold it for 20 grand, well they'd sell millions of them???? Why can't they build what ppl want??? how hard is that???

well said ....

Without all the dodgy govt fleet deals Ford and Holden would have collapsed years ago.
Lets hope both companies go bust very soon so we can save taxpayers money to support locally owned companies.

This is a first,  but I agree with cods.  In the end the government can hand out billions to a company but fords problem is it produces a car that has been losing popularity for years.  And no matter what, if demand slows then production slows which results in job losses.  The 34 million wouldn't have raised the popularity of fords vehicles.  Hence the job losses are the same, at least on the factory floor.  Maybe some middle management jobs were saved, but that's about it. 

Ford needs a proper plan for Australia.  Set a date for falcon to cease production and replace the production for a smaller car.  Compete in markets that are in growth and not in markets that are dying a slow death.

But from the looks of things they really aren't interested cause it simply costs less elsewhere.

The one thing for our wonderfull libs to remember is that money going to the car industry was done under Howard too.  So stop getting your knickers into a twist.

Take this wit the knowledge that I can barely hold a screw driver.

From my understanding when things spin they create electricity?? wind turbines spring to mind.

So why can't they build a car that when it is moving it has components that spin and generate electricity that then helps power the car?

John Smith wrote on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 7:22pm:

Guildford wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:40pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 5:14pm: Guildford wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 4:52pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:48am: Guildford wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:10am: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 8:05am: lisa.greek wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 8:01am: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 7:53am: How many jobs would have been lost if not for the handouts? Probably a lot more than what actually happened John.  Unfortunately, all it seems to have done is delayed the inevitable and the job losses will occur anyway.  I also see in the papers that Thailand are offering substantial tax incentives for car manufacturing to relocate there - and Thailand Officials will visit Aust later this year for discussions.  A lot of Holden models are produced there, then fitted out in australia so that could be another issue There aren't many countries that produce cars anymore and it would be a tragedy to loose the industry alltogether. I think whilst the govt. is in a position to do something about it,  they should do so ..... but even with that, there is only so much the government can do  Hyundai produce an average of 6000 vehicles per day, how can anyone justify throwing money at a company that will NEVER be able to compete. and what if we ever go to war with the Asian countries, do you plan on importing your cars ?... maybe you can ask them to send you a few tanks so that you  have something to shoot at them with .... the auto industry is a vital piece of  industry  ... if we don't keep it we will one day regret it ..... Ok then bring back the 55% tariff, to stop those pesky Asians from bringing in their new technology, GMH can go back to the 202 and Australians will be happy paying at times double the international cost of a car. (Check car prices in the 70's). Do you really want to pour millions into an industry in case there's a war? *shakes head in disbelief* yep ..we pour billions into defense in case there may be a war .. this is an extension of that.. no amount of money spent on defense will help us if the troops cannot get to where they need to go . That's the ticket, keep filling acres of storage with subsidised cars nobody wants, just in case......... they still remain one of the top selling cars so I'm not sure how you figure no one wants them .. (don't ask me why, personally I think fords are crap ... Holdens the way to go)

FYI

The top 10 sellers in June

Mazda3 ... 4212
Holden Commodore ... 3809
Holden Cruze ... 3387
Volkswagen Golf ... 3275
Hyundai i30 ... 3197
Toyota HiLux ... 3066
Nissan Navara ... 2267
Toyota Corolla ... 2152
Ford Ranger ... 2148
Mitsubishi Lancer ... 2061


Not a Falcon in sight, I repeat why build something that does not sell. Ford dealers are struggling unless they have an alternate brand dealership.

But yes, let's keep sinking money into a company with no new plan until 2015 !

Take the govt fleet sales off that list and Commodore sales drop away

Add tafiffs and import duties and they go the roof, we get jobs and you pay more.... :)

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 12:04pm:

Add tafiffs and import duties and they go the roof, we get jobs and you pay more.... :)

You obviously dont remember the over priced crap Aussies used to crank out when we had tariffs on everything

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 12:10pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:04pm: Add tafiffs and import duties and they go the roof, we get jobs and you pay more.... :) You obviouslye dont remember the over priced crap Aussies used to crank out when we had tariffs on everything

We built the best cars in the world...Toranas, kingswoods, Premiers, Falcons Fairlaines you name it, they are classics and the occasional restored models you see on the road still look  beautiful.  We can be proud of the Cars we built right back to the FJ...you destroyed all that for greed. :P

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 12:26pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:10pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:04pm: Add tafiffs and import duties and they go the roof, we get jobs and you pay more.... :) You obviouslye dont remember the over priced crap Aussies used to crank out when we had tariffs on everything We built the best cars in the world...Toranas, kingswoods, Premiers, Falcons Fairlaines you name it, they are classics and the occasional restored models you see on the road still look  beautiful.  We can be proud of the Cars we built right back to the FJ...you destroyed all that for greed. :P

They were crap cars..Ive had all of them and the Japs have always made better cars

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 12:28pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:26pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:10pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:04pm: Add tafiffs and import duties and they go the roof, we get jobs and you pay more.... :) You obviouslye dont remember the over priced crap Aussies used to crank out when we had tariffs on everything We built the best cars in the world...Toranas, kingswoods, Premiers, Falcons Fairlaines you name it, they are classics and the occasional restored models you see on the road still look  beautiful.  We can be proud of the Cars we built right back to the FJ...you destroyed all that for greed. :P They were crap cars..Ive had all of them and the Japs have always made better cars

They were the best cars in the world...we can put tariffs on imported cars then we will get the jobs and you will have to pay more - remember the old saying...if its Jap, its crap... :)

With the AIDS  health crisis - more needs to be done to warn kids in schools about just how dangerous homosexuality can be to their health.... 8-)

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 12:38pm:

With the AIDS  health crisis - more needs to be done to warn kids in schools about just how dangerous homosexuality can be to their health.... 8-)

I agree...being reamed bareback by a poof in the back seat of a Ford is bad for your health

Most Poofs drive imported cars like Peugeout.. ;D

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 12:26pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:10pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:04pm: Add tafiffs and import duties and they go the roof, we get jobs and you pay more.... :) You obviouslye dont remember the over priced crap Aussies used to crank out when we had tariffs on everything We built the best cars in the world...Toranas, kingswoods, Premiers, Falcons Fairlaines you name it, they are classics and the occasional restored models you see on the road still look  beautiful.  We can be proud of the Cars we built right back to the FJ...you destroyed all that for greed. :P

All built with old technology nobody else wanted. Engines out of date before they even made them.

Guildford wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 1:40pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:26pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:10pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:04pm: Add tafiffs and import duties and they go the roof, we get jobs and you pay more.... :) You obviouslye dont remember the over priced crap Aussies used to crank out when we had tariffs on everything We built the best cars in the world...Toranas, kingswoods, Premiers, Falcons Fairlaines you name it, they are classics and the occasional restored models you see on the road still look  beautiful.  We can be proud of the Cars we built right back to the FJ...you destroyed all that for greed. :P All built with old technology nobody else wanted. Engines out of date before they even made them.

Lies - nobody thinks like this or agrees with you....Our cars were the cutting edge proved year in year out at bathurst.... ;D

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 1:42pm:

Guildford wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 1:40pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:26pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:10pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:04pm: Add tafiffs and import duties and they go the roof, we get jobs and you pay more.... :) You obviouslye dont remember the over priced crap Aussies used to crank out when we had tariffs on everything We built the best cars in the world...Toranas, kingswoods, Premiers, Falcons Fairlaines you name it, they are classics and the occasional restored models you see on the road still look  beautiful.  We can be proud of the Cars we built right back to the FJ...you destroyed all that for greed. :P All built with old technology nobody else wanted. Engines out of date before they even made them. Lies - nobody thinks like this or agrees with you....Our cars were the cutting edge proved year in year out at bathurst.... ;D

oh but they do, you were hoodwinked into believing they were the best. Tariff protection ensured that they could keep building out of date and VERY expensive cars for years.

GMH was so sure they could force the Hawke government to put back the manditory introduction of ULP engines, they DIDN'T even have one.

John Smith wrote on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 7:33pm:

woof woof wrote on Jul 19th, 2012 at 7:28pm: Interesting that many say that our wage costs here are not competitive when compared to mant other nations, then you have the same ppl who say that then say we should protect weekend overtime/penalty rates etc. What is it?? Now if Ford built a family sized car with the power of a V6 that could do 400Km on a tank of whatever, fuel LPG Hydrogen electricity and sold it for under 30 grand, they take the car market by storm. Even if they build a for example a Hyundai i30 type car on electricity that cost not much to run and sold it for 20 grand, well they'd sell millions of them???? Why can't they build what ppl want??? how hard is that??? well said ....

thats a bit simplistic, dont you think? do you think you just decide what a car shoudl be and how much it should cost and voila! suddenly it is there? If you did any reading up onthe aussie car industry, the problem is that in the small car market they CANNOT compete and never will. over seas wage costs make it so that we will never be able to build small cars at anything like the same cost. big cars are the only areas where they can be competititve becase teh profit margins are higher and the japanese/asians pretty much only build small cars.

Guildford wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 1:52pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 1:42pm: Guildford wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 1:40pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:26pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:10pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:04pm: Add tafiffs and import duties and they go the roof, we get jobs and you pay more.... :) You obviouslye dont remember the over priced crap Aussies used to crank out when we had tariffs on everything We built the best cars in the world...Toranas, kingswoods, Premiers, Falcons Fairlaines you name it, they are classics and the occasional restored models you see on the road still look  beautiful.  We can be proud of the Cars we built right back to the FJ...you destroyed all that for greed. :P All built with old technology nobody else wanted. Engines out of date before they even made them. Lies - nobody thinks like this or agrees with you....Our cars were the cutting edge proved year in year out at bathurst.... ;D oh but they do, you were hoodwinked into believing they were the best. Tariff protection ensured that they could keep building out of date and VERY expensive cars for years. GMH was so sure they could force the Hawke government to put back the manditory introduction of ULP engines, they DIDN'T even have one.

lies - Aussie manufacturing = the highest of quality...its only when you corporatist start skimming off the top and calling it efficiency that quality turns to crap.  Corporatism and cheap imports = cheap crap - everyone knows this...when you greedy people are put in your proper place, we make the best cars, the best everything.  All you can do is lie lie lie deny deny deny because you are greedy and selfish... :)

woof woof wrote on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 7:53pm:

Take this wit the knowledge that I can barely hold a screw driver. From my understanding when things spin they create electricity?? wind turbines spring to mind. So why can't they build a car that when it is moving it has components that spin and generate electricity that then helps power the car?

I cant believe you were stupid enough to ask such a silly question. Do you think you just discovered perpetual motion or free energy??  I think it_is_the_light has information you will enjoy...

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 12:28pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:26pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:10pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:04pm: Add tafiffs and import duties and they go the roof, we get jobs and you pay more.... :) You obviouslye dont remember the over priced crap Aussies used to crank out when we had tariffs on everything We built the best cars in the world...Toranas, kingswoods, Premiers, Falcons Fairlaines you name it, they are classics and the occasional restored models you see on the road still look  beautiful.  We can be proud of the Cars we built right back to the FJ...you destroyed all that for greed. :P They were crap cars..Ive had all of them and the Japs have always made better cars

cars that were rusting out after 3 years, engines that were gutless, build quality that was north korean standard and high prices...

tariffs only ever make things worse. if we still had tem, GM would still be making kingswoods and we would all be paying more for the cars we actually wanted.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 6:29pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:28pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:26pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:10pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:04pm: Add tafiffs and import duties and they go the roof, we get jobs and you pay more.... :) You obviouslye dont remember the over priced crap Aussies used to crank out when we had tariffs on everything We built the best cars in the world...Toranas, kingswoods, Premiers, Falcons Fairlaines you name it, they are classics and the occasional restored models you see on the road still look  beautiful.  We can be proud of the Cars we built right back to the FJ...you destroyed all that for greed. :P They were crap cars..Ive had all of them and the Japs have always made better cars cars that were rusting out after 3 years, engines that were gutless, build quality that was north korean standard and high prices... tariffs only ever make things worse. if we still had tem, GM would still be making kingswoods and we would all be paying more for the cars we actually wanted.

Lets go back to the kingswood 202 trimatic..I had one and it was the biggest piece of sh!t on this planet..drank gallons of petrol and couldnt overtake a pushbike going uphill.

Lies...all jealous lies from greedy sellouts looking to make a buck by skimming off the top - these corporatists skim off the top and say...oooh look you cant make quality cars....Australia made quality cars before these morons started cutting costs and compromising on quality, labor and parts for profits...They destroyed a first class manufacturing base, nobody else...Tariffs breed economic success and will help spread the benefits of the resources boom out to the suburbs.... :) ::)

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 6:36pm:

Lies...all jealous lies from greedy sellouts looking to make a buck by skimming off the top - these corporatists skim off the top and say...oooh look you cant make quality cars....Australia made quality cars before these morons started cutting costs and compromising on quality, labor and parts for profits...They destroyed a first class manufacturing base, nobody else...Tariffs breed economic success and will help spread the benefits of the resources boom out to the suburbs.... :) ::)

Keep buying Aussie made cars Whitey..no ones stopping you

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 6:35pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:29pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:28pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:26pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:10pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:04pm: Add tafiffs and import duties and they go the roof, we get jobs and you pay more.... :) You obviouslye dont remember the over priced crap Aussies used to crank out when we had tariffs on everything We built the best cars in the world...Toranas, kingswoods, Premiers, Falcons Fairlaines you name it, they are classics and the occasional restored models you see on the road still look  beautiful.  We can be proud of the Cars we built right back to the FJ...you destroyed all that for greed. :P They were crap cars..Ive had all of them and the Japs have always made better cars cars that were rusting out after 3 years, engines that were gutless, build quality that was north korean standard and high prices... tariffs only ever make things worse. if we still had tem, GM would still be making kingswoods and we would all be paying more for the cars we actually wanted. Lets go back to the kingswood 202 trimatic..I had one and it was the biggest piece of sh!t on this planet..drank gallons of petrol and couldnt overtake a pushbike going uphill.

nearly everyone had one... and yes it was gutless. but the variety of imports werent that impressive either. Better yes, but not vastly so.

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 6:47pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:36pm: Lies...all jealous lies from greedy sellouts looking to make a buck by skimming off the top - these corporatists skim off the top and say...oooh look you cant make quality cars....Australia made quality cars before these morons started cutting costs and compromising on quality, labor and parts for profits...They destroyed a first class manufacturing base, nobody else...Tariffs breed economic success and will help spread the benefits of the resources boom out to the suburbs.... :) ::) Keep buying Aussie made cars Whitey..no ones stopping you

Tariffs will see that we can continue to buy quality Aussie made cars into the future...we must stop people like you sabotaging our Manufacturing industry with your greed...

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 6:47pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:36pm: Lies...all jealous lies from greedy sellouts looking to make a buck by skimming off the top - these corporatists skim off the top and say...oooh look you cant make quality cars....Australia made quality cars before these morons started cutting costs and compromising on quality, labor and parts for profits...They destroyed a first class manufacturing base, nobody else...Tariffs breed economic success and will help spread the benefits of the resources boom out to the suburbs.... :) ::) Keep buying Aussie made cars Whitey..no ones stopping you

you dont think he could AFFORD one do you? He probably gets his money 3 times a week from the mental health dept.

I owned am 81 Ford XD. it was crap
I now own a 04 FPV and it is awesome. competes well with cars double the price. cheaper than the equivalent BMW and massively cheaper to repair.

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 6:51pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:47pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:36pm: Lies...all jealous lies from greedy sellouts looking to make a buck by skimming off the top - these corporatists skim off the top and say...oooh look you cant make quality cars....Australia made quality cars before these morons started cutting costs and compromising on quality, labor and parts for profits...They destroyed a first class manufacturing base, nobody else...Tariffs breed economic success and will help spread the benefits of the resources boom out to the suburbs.... :) ::) Keep buying Aussie made cars Whitey..no ones stopping you Tariffs will see that we can continue to buy quality Aussie made cars into the future...we must stop people like you sabotaging our Manufacturing industry with your greed...

but you could only fit into the back of a HIACE van or in the cage trailer behind a Kingswood.

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 6:35pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:29pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:28pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:26pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:10pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:04pm: Add tafiffs and import duties and they go the roof, we get jobs and you pay more.... :) You obviouslye dont remember the over priced crap Aussies used to crank out when we had tariffs on everything We built the best cars in the world...Toranas, kingswoods, Premiers, Falcons Fairlaines you name it, they are classics and the occasional restored models you see on the road still look  beautiful.  We can be proud of the Cars we built right back to the FJ...you destroyed all that for greed. :P They were crap cars..Ive had all of them and the Japs have always made better cars cars that were rusting out after 3 years, engines that were gutless, build quality that was north korean standard and high prices... tariffs only ever make things worse. if we still had tem, GM would still be making kingswoods and we would all be paying more for the cars we actually wanted. Lets go back to the kingswood 202 trimatic..I had one and it was the biggest piece of sh!t on this planet..drank gallons of petrol and couldnt overtake a pushbike going uphill.

Yep the 202, new to GMH customers in 71, discontinued elsewhere in 72. 1955 Bedford engine.

You sabotaged our Car industry longweakend with your "efficiency reforms...we Aussies make first class cars - you greedy corporatist cant and hold us back...You and your policies are the failure...nobody else - move on... ::) :P

You can hear the failure in their own words...these people resist Australian success.....Tariffs breed success, efficiency and outsourcing produces economic failure.... :)

Guildford wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 6:55pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:35pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:29pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:28pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:26pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:10pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:04pm: Add tafiffs and import duties and they go the roof, we get jobs and you pay more.... :) You obviouslye dont remember the over priced crap Aussies used to crank out when we had tariffs on everything We built the best cars in the world...Toranas, kingswoods, Premiers, Falcons Fairlaines you name it, they are classics and the occasional restored models you see on the road still look  beautiful.  We can be proud of the Cars we built right back to the FJ...you destroyed all that for greed. :P They were crap cars..Ive had all of them and the Japs have always made better cars cars that were rusting out after 3 years, engines that were gutless, build quality that was north korean standard and high prices... tariffs only ever make things worse. if we still had tem, GM would still be making kingswoods and we would all be paying more for the cars we actually wanted. Lets go back to the kingswood 202 trimatic..I had one and it was the biggest piece of sh!t on this planet..drank gallons of petrol and couldnt overtake a pushbike going uphill. Yep the 202, new to GMH customers in 71, discontinued elsewhere in 72. 1955 Bedford engine.

it was a crap engine.

meanwhile in Ford territory, Ford AUSTRALIA built the Ford GT Phase III which was for a short time the fastest, most powerful production car IN THE WORLD.

so much for only producing crap.

however, it can now be overtaken by a Ford XR6 and my Ford GT would destroy it, plus mine has brakes that actually work TWICE in an hour!

car tech has improved dramatically in the last 40-50 years.

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 6:55pm:

You sabotaged our Car industry longweakend with your "efficiency reforms...we Aussies make first class cars - you greedy corporatist cant and hold us back...You and your policies are the failure...nobody else - move on... ::) :P

Have you considered sellin your body fat for candles? then u might actually be CONTRIBUTING something to the economy.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 7:06pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:55pm: You sabotaged our Car industry longweakenD with your "efficiency reforms...we Aussies make first class cars - you greedy corporatist cant and hold us back...You and your policies are the failure...nobody else - move on... ::) :P Have you considered sellin your body fat for candles? then u might actually be CONTRIBUTING something to the economy.

All you corporatists have ever been if a force for greed, selfishness negativity and economic failure.... 8-)

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 7:05pm:

Guildford wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:55pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:35pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:29pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:28pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:26pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:10pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:04pm: Add tafiffs and import duties and they go the roof, we get jobs and you pay more.... :) You obviouslye dont remember the over priced crap Aussies used to crank out when we had tariffs on everything We built the best cars in the world...Toranas, kingswoods, Premiers, Falcons Fairlaines you name it, they are classics and the occasional restored models you see on the road still look  beautiful.  We can be proud of the Cars we built right back to the FJ...you destroyed all that for greed. :P They were crap cars..Ive had all of them and the Japs have always made better cars cars that were rusting out after 3 years, engines that were gutless, build quality that was north korean standard and high prices... tariffs only ever make things worse. if we still had tem, GM would still be making kingswoods and we would all be paying more for the cars we actually wanted. Lets go back to the kingswood 202 trimatic..I had one and it was the biggest piece of sh!t on this planet..drank gallons of petrol and couldnt overtake a pushbike going uphill. Yep the 202, new to GMH customers in 71, discontinued elsewhere in 72. 1955 Bedford engine. it was a crap engine. meanwhile in Ford territory, Ford AUSTRALIA built the Ford GT Phase III which was for a short time the fastest, most powerful production car IN THE WORLD. so much for only producing crap. however, it can now be overtaken by a Ford XR6 and my Ford GT would destroy it, plus mine has brakes that actually work TWICE in an hour! car tech has improved dramatically in the last 40-50 years.

All Fords and Holdens of the high tariff era were unreliable rust buckets

The difference between us and them (The Shadow Corporate Maggot Economy) is we can, they cant....Tariffs breed success... 8-)

adelcrow wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 7:09pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:05pm: Guildford wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:55pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:35pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 6:29pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:28pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:26pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:10pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 12:04pm: Add tafiffs and import duties and they go the roof, we get jobs and you pay more.... :) You obviouslye dont remember the over priced crap Aussies used to crank out when we had tariffs on everything We built the best cars in the world...Toranas, kingswoods, Premiers, Falcons Fairlaines you name it, they are classics and the occasional restored models you see on the road still look  beautiful.  We can be proud of the Cars we built right back to the FJ...you destroyed all that for greed. :P They were crap cars..Ive had all of them and the Japs have always made better cars cars that were rusting out after 3 years, engines that were gutless, build quality that was north korean standard and high prices... tariffs only ever make things worse. if we still had tem, GM would still be making kingswoods and we would all be paying more for the cars we actually wanted. Lets go back to the kingswood 202 trimatic..I had one and it was the biggest piece of sh!t on this planet..drank gallons of petrol and couldnt overtake a pushbike going uphill. Yep the 202, new to GMH customers in 71, discontinued elsewhere in 72. 1955 Bedford engine. it was a crap engine. meanwhile in Ford territory, Ford AUSTRALIA built the Ford GT Phase III which was for a short time the fastest, most powerful production car IN THE WORLD. so much for only producing crap. however, it can now be overtaken by a Ford XR6 and my Ford GT would destroy it, plus mine has brakes that actually work TWICE in an hour! car tech has improved dramatically in the last 40-50 years. All Fords and Holdens of the high tariff era were unreliable rust buckets

a convenient if unsubstantiated statement. you dont get to make the fastest car in the world AND produce junk at the same time. they had to be doing SOME things right.

the 308 was a good engine. any 4cyl GMH engine was beyond embarrassing and the ford 351 was a great engine.

might be worth mentioning that the Ford F6 turbo charged 6cyl was among the worlds fastest turbo vehicles and when price was taken into account - one of the best. almost as fast as a porsche Gt2, 80-20 acceleration times FASTER than a lamborghini and of course 1/4 the price.

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 7:15pm:

The difference between us and them (The Shadow Corporate Maggot Economy) is we can, they cant....Tariffs breed success... 8-)

what would you know about BREEDING??

The anti tariff brigade are the negative no can do brigade, they are also cheapskates who believe the way to run a business is to skim off the cost and compromise on quality and labor.... :)

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 7:18pm:

The anti tariff brigade are the negative no can do brigade, they are also cheapskates who believe the way to run a business is to skim off the cost and compromise on quality and labor.... :)

you bring new meanings to the words, stupid, paranoid and moron. all you do is discover a new word and parrot it endlessly until you discover a new one.

this weeks word is 'tariff' - a concept you dont even understand.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 7:22pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:18pm: The anti tariff brigade are the negative no can do brigade, they are also cheapskates who believe the way to run a business is to skim off the cost and compromise on quality and labor.... :) you bring new meanings to the words, stupid, paranoid and moron. all you do is discover a new word and parrot it endlessly until you discover a new one. this weeks word is 'tariff' - a concept you dont even understand.

And you are a hopeless reductionist devoid of substance who instead reaches for denial, semantics, slogans, deflection and argument of the ad hominem abusive species to mask the fact that your argument is lost... :)

Tariffs build success... 8-)

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 7:25pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:22pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:18pm: The anti tariff brigade are the negative no can do brigade, they are also cheapskates who believe the way to run a business is to skim off the cost and compromise on quality and labor.... :) you bring new meanings to the words, stupid, paranoid and moron. all you do is discover a new word and parrot it endlessly until you discover a new one. this weeks word is 'tariff' - a concept you dont even understand. And you are a hopeless reductionist devoid of substance who instead reaches for denial, semantics, slogans, deflection and argument of the ad hominem abusive species to mask the fact that your argument is lost... :) Tariffs build success... 8-)

i thought it was Celts who did that? oh I forgot... that was LAST years delusion...

idiot.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 7:32pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:25pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:22pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:18pm: The anti tariff brigade are the negative no can do brigade, they are also cheapskates who believe the way to run a business is to skim off the cost and compromise on quality and labor.... :) you bring new meanings to the words, stupid, paranoid and moron. all you do is discover a new word and parrot it endlessly until you discover a new one. this weeks word is 'tariff' - a concept you dont even understand. And you are a hopeless reductionist devoid of substance who instead reaches for denial, semantics, slogans, deflection and argument of the ad hominem abusive species to mask the fact that your argument is lost... :) Tariffs build success... 8-) i thought it was Celts who did that? oh I forgot... that was LAST years delusion... idiot.

No No No No - thats all you negative anti tariff failures can say.... :)

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 7:34pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:32pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:25pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:22pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:18pm: The anti tariff brigade are the negative no can do brigade, they are also cheapskates who believe the way to run a business is to skim off the cost and compromise on quality and labor.... :) you bring new meanings to the words, stupid, paranoid and moron. all you do is discover a new word and parrot it endlessly until you discover a new one. this weeks word is 'tariff' - a concept you dont even understand. And you are a hopeless reductionist devoid of substance who instead reaches for denial, semantics, slogans, deflection and argument of the ad hominem abusive species to mask the fact that your argument is lost... :) Tariffs build success... 8-) i thought it was Celts who did that? oh I forgot... that was LAST years delusion... idiot. No No No No - thats all you negative anti tariff failures can say.... :)

well if only you could construct a reasonablke argument. that might even be fun. b ut you dont even understand whaqt a tariff is or how it works inthe context of free trade.

you dont even have a drivers license and you probably couldnt fit behind any steering wheel other than the bridge of a ship anyhow.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 7:37pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:34pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:32pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:25pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:22pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:18pm: The anti tariff brigade are the negative no can do brigade, they are also cheapskates who believe the way to run a business is to skim off the cost and compromise on quality and labor.... :) you bring new meanings to the words, stupid, paranoid and moron. all you do is discover a new word and parrot it endlessly until you discover a new one. this weeks word is 'tariff' - a concept you dont even understand. And you are a hopeless reductionist devoid of substance who instead reaches for denial, semantics, slogans, deflection and argument of the ad hominem abusive species to mask the fact that your argument is lost... :) Tariffs build success... 8-) i thought it was Celts who did that? oh I forgot... that was LAST years delusion... idiot. No No No No - thats all you negative anti tariff failures can say.... :) well if only you could construct a reasonablke argument. that might even be fun. b ut you dont even understand whaqt a tariff is or how it works inthe context of free trade. you dont even have a drivers license and you probably couldnt fit behind any steering wheel other than the bridge of a ship anyhow.

You are the most negative anti tariff anti success failure I have ever come across....you think the economy succeeds on an endless process of cutting costs and skimming off the cream of a business - enjoy swimming in the negativity of anti tariff failure... :)

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 7:41pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:37pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:34pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:32pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:25pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:22pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:18pm: The anti tariff brigade are the negative no can do brigade, they are also cheapskates who believe the way to run a business is to skim off the cost and compromise on quality and labor.... :) you bring new meanings to the words, stupid, paranoid and moron. all you do is discover a new word and parrot it endlessly until you discover a new one. this weeks word is 'tariff' - a concept you dont even understand. And you are a hopeless reductionist devoid of substance who instead reaches for denial, semantics, slogans, deflection and argument of the ad hominem abusive species to mask the fact that your argument is lost... :) Tariffs build success... 8-) i thought it was Celts who did that? oh I forgot... that was LAST years delusion... idiot. No No No No - thats all you negative anti tariff failures can say.... :) well if only you could construct a reasonablke argument. that might even be fun. b ut you dont even understand whaqt a tariff is or how it works inthe context of free trade. you dont even have a drivers license and you probably couldnt fit behind any steering wheel other than the bridge of a ship anyhow. You are the most negative anti tariff anti success failure I have ever come across....you think the economy succeeds on an endless process of cutting costs and skimming off the cream of a business - enjoy swimming in the negativity of anti tariff failure... :)

I was right... you DONT understand what a tariff is or how it is applied or the history of them.

go back to promoting celts or whatever else..

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 7:43pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:41pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:37pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:34pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:32pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:25pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:22pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 20th, 2012 at 7:18pm: The anti tariff brigade are the negative no can do brigade, they are also cheapskates who believe the way to run a business is to skim off the cost and compromise on quality and labor.... :) you bring new meanings to the words, stupid, paranoid and moron. all you do is discover a new word and parrot it endlessly until you discover a new one. this weeks word is 'tariff' - a concept you dont even understand. And you are a hopeless reductionist devoid of substance who instead reaches for denial, semantics, slogans, deflection and argument of the ad hominem abusive species to mask the fact that your argument is lost... :) Tariffs build success... 8-) i thought it was Celts who did that? oh I forgot... that was LAST years delusion... idiot. No No No No - thats all you negative anti tariff failures can say.... :) well if only you could construct a reasonablke argument. that might even be fun. b ut you dont even understand whaqt a tariff is or how it works inthe context of free trade. you dont even have a drivers license and you probably couldnt fit behind any steering wheel other than the bridge of a ship anyhow. You are the most negative anti tariff anti success failure I have ever come across....you think the economy succeeds on an endless process of cutting costs and skimming off the cream of a business - enjoy swimming in the negativity of anti tariff failure... :) I was right... you DONT understand what a tariff is or how it is applied or the history of them. go back to promoting celts or whatever else..

Your words are just meaningless semantics, denial and negativity - you have nothing to say anti tariff boy...

Tariffs and import duties are the engine of Aussie success - economic rationalism is its counter part path to negativity, greed and failure.   :)

Top Five Beliefs of Anti tariff failures..

1.  We Cant..
2.  We fail..
3.  No no no
4.  The path to success is reductionism
5. Greed is good.... ;D

Going back a couple of pages, there were some people wondering why Australian car manufactures keep building big cars. There are five costs when it comes to selling cars.

1. Design work - people sitting in offices designing the parts of the cars.

2. Testing - making prototypes, testing them, sending them back to stage 1, etc

3. Materials - buying the plastics, metals, glass, etc that the car will me made from.

4. Manufacturing - the work at the factories of actually making the cars.

5. Selling - Advertising, transporting cars to a show room, having a place to sell them, and the profits the carsales people need to exist.


Stages 1, 2, 4, and 5 are about the same cost irrespective of if the car is a compact 4 cylinder or a massive V8 family car. The only real change in cost is the extra materials the large car needs. But this is in fact only a small cost of the overall price.

This is why Australian car manufactures (Holden, Ford, Toyota, and up until recently Mitsubishi) have made large cars, as it would cost them nearly the same price to make a small car. But people won't pay large car prices for a little four cylinder when they can buy an import for half of that, so the companies are stuck making them big.

Tariffs on imports are the solution to Australian manufacturing...its right that importers should be made to incur normal Australian costs, thats just economic sanity....you don;t let other countries with lower standards undercut you.... :)

Quantum wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:05pm:

Going back a couple of pages, there were some people wondering why Australian car manufactures keep building big cars. There are five costs when it comes to selling cars. 1. Design work - people sitting in offices designing the parts of the cars. 2. Testing - making prototypes, testing them, sending them back to stage 1, etc 3. Materials - buying the plastics, metals, glass, etc that the car will me made from. 4. Manufacturing - the work at the factories of actually making the cars. 5. Selling - Advertising, transporting cars to a show room, having a place to sell them, and the profits the carsales people need to exist. Stages 1, 2, 4, and 5 are about the same cost irrespective of if the car is a compact 4 cylinder or a massive V8 family car. The only real change in cost is the extra materials the large car needs. But this is in fact only a small cost of the overall price. This is why Australian car manufactures (Holden, Ford, Toyota, and up until recently Mitsubishi) have made large cars, as it would cost them nearly the same price to make a small car. But people won't pay large car prices for a little four cylinder when they can buy an import for half of that, so the companies are stuck making them big.

exactly. the economics of scale are such that local manufacturers will never be able to compete with multi-million selling unit overseas manufacturers with very low labor costs. NEVER. so the only alternatives are to either just throw the car manufacturers away or employ some govt subsidy to support ths single area of manufacture which is still economic - large cars.

I find it remarkable that the very same people who lament the loss of manufacturing in australia would happly send australias largest remaining manufacturers to the wall just because they prsonally dont like large cars.

Quote:

because they prsonally dont like large cars.

I wish you could spell - university graduate -  ;D

Large cars - just for one person to drive to work
in traffic jams is not environmentally friendly.
When will you understand basic ideas Longweekend?

Bobby. wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 4:19pm:

Quote: because they prsonally dont like large cars. I wish you could spell - university graduate -  ;D Large cars - just for one person to drive to work in traffic jams is not environmentally friendly. When will you understand basic ideas Longweekend?

thats not a 'basic idea', booby. it is an OPINION.

large cars are great and what I and others prefer. we dont lambast your choice for tiny buzz-boxes.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 4:25pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 4:19pm: Quote: because they prsonally dont like large cars. I wish you could spell - university graduate -  ;D Large cars - just for one person to drive to work in traffic jams is not environmentally friendly. When will you understand basic ideas Longweekend? thats not a 'basic idea', booby. it is an OPINION. large cars are great and what I and others prefer. we dont lambast your choice for tiny buzz-boxes.

Here's $2,000 for your clunker -  ;D

Let's get it off the road.

Bobby. wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 4:32pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 4:25pm: Bobby. wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 4:19pm: Quote: because they prsonally dont like large cars. I wish you could spell - university graduate -  ;D Large cars - just for one person to drive to work in traffic jams is not environmentally friendly. When will you understand basic ideas Longweekend? thats not a 'basic idea', booby. it is an OPINION. large cars are great and what I and others prefer. we dont lambast your choice for tiny buzz-boxes. Here's $2,000 for your clunker -  ;D Let's get it off the road.

I offered to race my car against your any time booby, but you wussed out. try again loser.

and since I work from home, my environmental impact from my car is vastly lower than you or your girlfeired lastnail driving you multi-coloured panel 20yo commodores.

I drive a small economical car because I care about the environment & my bank balance.

Longweekend drives a V8 gas guzzler.

Bobby. wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 4:46pm:

I drive a small economical car because I care about the environment & my bank balance. Longweekend drives a V8 gas guzzler.

A) because all you can afford is a dinky buzzbox
b) it drives on petrol not gas you american sychophant
C) you only WISH you drove a hi-powered car instead of your ancient  buzzbox

so... whens the race? you can bring your gf to nail if you want.

I thought only 18 yr old bogans raced cars to settle who had the best car.
If the fastest car in a straight line was the best one we'd all be driving drag cars but most of us judge the best cars with a far broader criteria.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 4:50pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 4:46pm: I drive a small economical car because I care about the environment & my bank balance. Longweekend drives a V8 gas guzzler. A) because all you can afford is a dinky buzzbox b) it drives on petrol not gas you american sychophant C) you only WISH you drove a hi-powered car instead of your ancient  buzzbox so... whens the race? you can bring your gf to nail if you want.

if you wanted a fast car you should never have bought a ford.....

I drive a Landcruiser, paid luxury car tax.

I once knew a guy who had a landcruiser sahara ... he refused to park it on the grass once for fear of damaging it ..... needless to say the guy was a total dickhead ....

John Smith wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 5:08pm:

I once knew a guy who had a landcruiser sahara ... he refused to park it on the grass once for fear of damaging it ..... needless to say the guy was a total dickhead ....

My Hilux gets a fair beating ..bullet proof would be the best way to describe it.
And I would put money on my type R Civic giving Longys Falcon a sound flogging through the Adelaide Hills.

The Japanese manufacturers are not paying appropriate import duties and tariffs on their imported cars.... >:(

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 4:50pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 4:46pm: I drive a small economical car because I care about the environment & my bank balance. Longweekend drives a V8 gas guzzler. A) because all you can afford is a dinky buzzbox b) it drives on petrol not gas you american sychophant C) you only WISH you drove a hi-powered car instead of your ancient  buzzbox so... whens the race? you can bring your gf to nail if you want.

I already offered you a race between your car and a ZX-10R & you declined - coward.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTa5du-dmVE

adelcrow wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 5:12pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 5:08pm: I once knew a guy who had a landcruiser sahara ... he refused to park it on the grass once for fear of damaging it ..... needless to say the guy was a total dickhead .... My Hilux gets a fair beating ..bullet proof would be the best way to describe it. And I would put money on my type R Civic giving Longys Falcon a sound flogging through the Adelaide Hills.

it all boils down to the best driver. and picking a track that overwhelmingly suits one car over another is the very definition of being a loser.

Notice Longweekend ignored the challenge again.


Quote:

a race between your car and a ZX-10R

What a coward.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 7:16pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 5:12pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 5:08pm: I once knew a guy who had a landcruiser sahara ... he refused to park it on the grass once for fear of damaging it ..... needless to say the guy was a total dickhead .... My Hilux gets a fair beating ..bullet proof would be the best way to describe it. And I would put money on my type R Civic giving Longys Falcon a sound flogging through the Adelaide Hills. it all boils down to the best driver. and picking a track that overwhelmingly suits one car over another is the very definition of being a loser.

but by denying him his track, aren't  you in effect choosing a track? does that make you a looser too?

Of course Longweekend is a loser.

Bobby. wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 6:04pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 4:50pm: Bobby. wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 4:46pm: I drive a small economical car because I care about the environment & my bank balance. Longweekend drives a V8 gas guzzler. A) because all you can afford is a dinky buzzbox b) it drives on petrol not gas you american sychophant C) you only WISH you drove a hi-powered car instead of your ancient  buzzbox so... whens the race? you can bring your gf to nail if you want. I already offered you a race between your car and a ZX-10R & you declined - coward. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTa5du-dmVE

You mean between a car I OWN vsa a motorobike you DONT OWN???

do you ever eonder why people mock you and think you are pathetic? this is why.

Who said I don't own one?

Coward - I offered you a 1/4 mile drag race & you declined.

Bobby. wrote on Jul 24^th, 2012 at 3:15pm:

Who said I don't own one? Coward - I offered you a 1/4 mile drag race & you declined.

do you own one?

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 24^th, 2012 at 3:29pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 24th, 2012 at 3:15pm: Who said I don't own one? Coward - I offered you a 1/4 mile drag race & you declined. do you own one?

Forget about what I own Longweekend.
The fact is that your V8 clunker could not win against even a little motorbike - a 250cc in a 1/4 mile drag.
Once - I saw a TZ 350cc 2 stroke from 1975 run a 10.23  1/4 mile time!
Cars are very slow in acceleration compared to bikes -
yet old men like you pretend they are racing car heros in their heavy V8s.

Bobby. wrote on Jul 24^th, 2012 at 11:54pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 24th, 2012 at 3:29pm: Bobby. wrote on Jul 24th, 2012 at 3:15pm: Who said I don't own one? Coward - I offered you a 1/4 mile drag race & you declined. do you own one? Forget about what I own Longweekend. The fact is that your V8 clunker could not win against even a little motorbike - a 250cc in a 1/4 mile drag. Once - I saw a TZ 350cc 2 stroke from 1975 run a 10.23  1/4 mile time! Cars are very slow in acceleration compared to bikes - yet old men like you pretend they are racing car heros in their heavy V8s.

True. Yet cars kill them under braking and in corners. Hence why even the top racing bikes in the world set similar lap times to a V8 supercar, and why street bikes get smashed by a decent sports car. Even with all that acceleration they set slower laps time because they are so slow everywhere else.

True - cars do have 4 wheels for grip + flat profile tryes
for maximum grip on corners.
They have lousy acceleration unless they are sports cars costing zillions.

Lets's get back to the topic.

Ford would be running a profitable business if they had made electric cars.
To succeed in this world you have to be innovative -
it's too hard to compete with overseas markets where labor is cheaper
& often the quality is better -
so you need a trump card -
that is the all electric car -
why can't we make the best one in the world & export it too?

Reason: they are just too dumb at Ford  & taxpayers are expected
to pay for their lack of brains.

See how when Longweekend loses he doesn't reply?

Bobby. wrote on Jul 25^th, 2012 at 12:50am:

True - cars do have 4 wheels for grip + flat profile tryes for maximum grip on corners. They have lousy acceleration unless they are sports cars costing zillions. Lets's get back to the topic. Ford would be running a profitable business if they had made electric cars. To succeed in this world you have to be innovative - it's too hard to compete with overseas markets where labor is cheaper & often the quality is better - so you need a trump card - that is the all electric car - why can't we make the best one in the world & export it too? Reason: they are just too dumb at Ford  & taxpayers are expected to pay for their lack of brains.

So much for the 100 mill handout Ford got earlier this year to stop job losses :(

What a scam !! The Governmenbt needs to wake up to the scam and stop trying to buy votes with our hard earned money !!

Ford doesn't want to make anytrhing new here. They will run this operation into the ground for as long as they can get handouts from the government. They will keep the electric car and hybrid car development for themselves in the US whilst throwing the scraps to Australia :( As soon as the handouts stop so will Ford.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 4:50pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 4:46pm: I drive a small economical car because I care about the environment & my bank balance. Longweekend drives a V8 gas guzzler. A) because all you can afford is a dinky buzzbox b) it drives on petrol not gas you american sychophant C) you only WISH you drove a hi-powered car instead of your ancient  buzzbox so... whens the race? you can bring your gf to nail if you want.

nobody wants those big cars anymore that's why Holden Commodore has slipped to 8th place and the Ford Falcon is not even on the top 10 list.

What I predicted about large cars and the rising cost of fuel has come true. Now you owe me an apology for all of the bullshit you hurled at me over the years on this topic.

Just another one of your failed predictions as usual !!

John Smith wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 9:48am:

Guildford wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:10am: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 8:05am: lisa.greek wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 8:01am: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 7:53am: How many jobs would have been lost if not for the handouts? Probably a lot more than what actually happened John.  Unfortunately, all it seems to have done is delayed the inevitable and the job losses will occur anyway.  I also see in the papers that Thailand are offering substantial tax incentives for car manufacturing to relocate there - and Thailand Officials will visit Aust later this year for discussions.  A lot of Holden models are produced there, then fitted out in australia so that could be another issue There aren't many countries that produce cars anymore and it would be a tragedy to loose the industry alltogether. I think whilst the govt. is in a position to do something about it,  they should do so ..... but even with that, there is only so much the government can do  Hyundai produce an average of 6000 vehicles per day, how can anyone justify throwing money at a company that will NEVER be able to compete. and what if we ever go to war with the Asian countries, do you plan on importing your cars ?... maybe you can ask them to send you a few tanks so that you  have something to shoot at them with .... the auto industry is a vital piece of  industry  ... if we don't keep it we will one day regret it .....

That's a long bow.

I doubt if a domestic car is going to be of use defending the country in modern pushbutton warfare !!

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 8:48pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:48am: Guildford wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 9:10am: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 8:05am: lisa.greek wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 8:01am: John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2012 at 7:53am: How many jobs would have been lost if not for the handouts? Probably a lot more than what actually happened John.  Unfortunately, all it seems to have done is delayed the inevitable and the job losses will occur anyway.  I also see in the papers that Thailand are offering substantial tax incentives for car manufacturing to relocate there - and Thailand Officials will visit Aust later this year for discussions.  A lot of Holden models are produced there, then fitted out in australia so that could be another issue There aren't many countries that produce cars anymore and it would be a tragedy to loose the industry alltogether. I think whilst the govt. is in a position to do something about it,  they should do so ..... but even with that, there is only so much the government can do  Hyundai produce an average of 6000 vehicles per day, how can anyone justify throwing money at a company that will NEVER be able to compete. and what if we ever go to war with the Asian countries, do you plan on importing your cars ?... maybe you can ask them to send you a few tanks so that you  have something to shoot at them with .... the auto industry is a vital piece of  industry  ... if we don't keep it we will one day regret it ..... That's a long bow. I doubt if a domestic car is going to be of use defending the country in modern pushbutton warfare !!

if you shut down the auto plants, who's going to build you're military vechiles? ... you'll find if we ever go to war Ford and holden will stop making commodores and falcons and use the plants to make troop movers and armoured personnel carriers etc ........  everything we need is there, it's just some of the processes that will have to change.

John - have you read this thread?

Why can't Ford make & export the best all electric car in the world?

John Smith wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 8:54pm:

if you shut down the auto plants, who's going to build you're military vechiles? ... you'll find if we ever go to war Ford and holden will stop making commodores and falcons and use the plants to make troop movers and armoured personnel carriers etc ........  everything we need is there, it's just some of the processes that will have to change.

So why did they let Mitsubishi close down ?

Honestly you're living in the past. Australia can't make military equipment that's why they import most of it. What makes yoiu think they are going to make anything of military use in a domestic car factory ?

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 9:02pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 8:54pm: if you shut down the auto plants, who's going to build you're military vechiles? ... you'll find if we ever go to war Ford and holden will stop making commodores and falcons and use the plants to make troop movers and armoured personnel carriers etc ........  everything we need is there, it's just some of the processes that will have to change. So why did they let Mitsubishi close down ? Honestly you're living the past. Australia can't make military equipment that's why they import most of it. What makes yoiu think they are going to make anything of military use in a domestic car factory ?

I don't really care who is left holding the batton (ok, I do, Fords are crap, i'd prefer Holden) ... as long as one of them is there when we need them .... we don't need 10 different manufacturers , we don't have that many troops ....

Bobby. wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 8:57pm:

John - have you thread this thread? Why can't Ford make & export the best all electric car in the world?

The reason why is beacuse they are not here to make anything useful. Making obsolete old junk is just a front to milk the givernment which they have done for the last 30 years :(

Bobby. wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 8:57pm:

John - have you thread this thread? Why can't Ford make & export the best all electric car in the world?

Ford can't make the best anything in the world .... Holden on the other hand,

I would agree ... make cars that people want and their numbers will turn .... but regardless, we cannot afford to let  the auto industry die in Australia ... I think its an essential service ....

John Smith wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 9:06pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 8:57pm: John - have you read this thread? Why can't Ford make & export the best all electric car in the world? Ford can't make the best anything in the world .... Holden on the other hand, I would agree ... make cars that people want and their numbers will turn .... but regardless, we cannot afford to let  the auto industry die in Australia ... I think its an essential service ....

Rubbish - if we put money into R&D we could make the best electric car in the world.
Ford & Holden could be a part of it.

John Smith wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 9:06pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 8:57pm: John - have you thread this thread? Why can't Ford make & export the best all electric car in the world? Ford can't make the best anything in the world .... Holden on the other hand, I would agree ... make cars that people want and their numbers will turn .... but regardless, we cannot afford to let  the auto industry die in Australia ... I think its an essential service ....

so why not use the money to create an all australian car manufacturer so we don't have to worry about them pissing off when they can no longer scam money out of the government ?

Bobby. wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 9:15pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 9:06pm: Bobby. wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 8:57pm: John - have you read this thread? Why can't Ford make & export the best all electric car in the world? Ford can't make the best anything in the world .... Holden on the other hand, I would agree ... make cars that people want and their numbers will turn .... but regardless, we cannot afford to let  the auto industry die in Australia ... I think its an essential service .... Rubbish - if we put money into R&D we could make the best electric car in the world. Ford & Holden could be a part of it.

Ford and Holden Australia are small time (side point, but why does everyone seem to forget Toyota Australia?). There is no way they can make the best electric car in the world.

The way the system works is that the global companies spend billions (that's illions with a B, not M) in R&D. The Australian companies use the technology developed by the parent companies and incorporate it into their cars. They do very little development of their own.

The cost of designing a fresh sheet car these days is anywhere from about 5 to 10 billions dollars. Toyota, Ford, Holden (and Mitsubishi before they went broke) do not design fresh sheet cars in Australia. Engines, platforms, transmission, are sourced from other models by the parent company. Hence why new cars in Australia only cost about 500-1000 million to design. That's because most of the expensive work has already been done by the parent company.

It is insane to think Ford Australia with their tiny budget could come up with an electric car design better than what the parent company can do. The only realistic option is to wait for the parent company to spend billions coming up with the technology and then incorporating it into their next car. Likewise, the money the Australian government gives to Ford and Holden is nothing compared to the R&D budgets of the parent companies. So even putting all that money into electric car research will still leave them years behind.

Quantum wrote on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 12:54am:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 9:15pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 9:06pm: Bobby. wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 8:57pm: John - have you read this thread? Why can't Ford make & export the best all electric car in the world? Ford can't make the best anything in the world .... Holden on the other hand, I would agree ... make cars that people want and their numbers will turn .... but regardless, we cannot afford to let  the auto industry die in Australia ... I think its an essential service .... Rubbish - if we put money into R&D we could make the best electric car in the world. Ford & Holden could be a part of it. Ford and Holden Australia are small time (side point, but why does everyone seem to forget Toyota Australia?). There is no way they can make the best electric car in the world. The way the system works is that the global companies spend billions (that's illions with a B, not M) in R&D. The Australian companies use the technology developed by the parent companies and incorporate it into their cars. They do very little development of their own. The cost of designing a fresh sheet car these days is anywhere from about 5 to 10 billions dollars. Toyota, Ford, Holden (and Mitsubishi before they went broke) do not design fresh sheet cars in Australia. Engines, platforms, transmission, are sourced from other models by the parent company. Hence why new cars in Australia only cost about 500-1000 million to design. That's because most of the expensive work has already been done by the parent company. It is insane to think Ford Australia with their tiny budget could come up with an electric car design better than what the parent company can do. The only realistic option is to wait for the parent company to spend billions coming up with the technology and then incorporating it into their next car. Likewise, the money the Australian government gives to Ford and Holden is nothing compared to the R&D budgets of the parent companies. So even putting all that money into electric car research will still leave them years behind.

The point is the parent companies including Toyota have come up with all electric car designs and plugin hybrid designs but we are still manufacturing old gas guzzlers. Go figure !!

Ford and Holden are American companies so why should we give them money to develop an electric car?
Cars are made better and cheaper throughout Asia and we are much better off doing things we are good at instead of propping up US car makers in this country.
What is this obsession with wasting our time and money making cars in this country?

adelcrow wrote on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 11:07am:

Ford and Holden are American companies so why should we give them money to develop an electric car? Cars are made better and cheaper throughout Asia and we are much better off doing things we are good at instead of propping up US car makers in this country. What is this obsession with wasting our time and money making cars in this country?

because we give them money to make old gas guzzlers so may as well put conditionals on the money we givce them !!

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 10:51am:

Quantum wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 12:54am: Bobby. wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 9:15pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 9:06pm: Bobby. wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 8:57pm: John - have you read this thread? Why can't Ford make & export the best all electric car in the world? Ford can't make the best anything in the world .... Holden on the other hand, I would agree ... make cars that people want and their numbers will turn .... but regardless, we cannot afford to let  the auto industry die in Australia ... I think its an essential service .... Rubbish - if we put money into R&D we could make the best electric car in the world. Ford & Holden could be a part of it. Ford and Holden Australia are small time (side point, but why does everyone seem to forget Toyota Australia?). There is no way they can make the best electric car in the world. The way the system works is that the global companies spend billions (that's illions with a B, not M) in R&D. The Australian companies use the technology developed by the parent companies and incorporate it into their cars. They do very little development of their own. The cost of designing a fresh sheet car these days is anywhere from about 5 to 10 billions dollars. Toyota, Ford, Holden (and Mitsubishi before they went broke) do not design fresh sheet cars in Australia. Engines, platforms, transmission, are sourced from other models by the parent company. Hence why new cars in Australia only cost about 500-1000 million to design. That's because most of the expensive work has already been done by the parent company. It is insane to think Ford Australia with their tiny budget could come up with an electric car design better than what the parent company can do. The only realistic option is to wait for the parent company to spend billions coming up with the technology and then incorporating it into their next car. Likewise, the money the Australian government gives to Ford and Holden is nothing compared to the R&D budgets of the parent companies. So even putting all that money into electric car research will still leave them years behind. The point is the parent companies including Toyota have come up with all electric car designs and plugin hybrid designs but we are still manufacturing old gas guzzlers. Go figure !!

becaue no one wants fully electric vehicles. they have been a massive failure world-wide. they can barely give them away and while GM crows about selling 7000 Volts, the rest of the industry sold 15M cars.

Quantum wrote on Jul 25^th, 2012 at 12:19am:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 24th, 2012 at 11:54pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 24th, 2012 at 3:29pm: Bobby. wrote on Jul 24th, 2012 at 3:15pm: Who said I don't own one? Coward - I offered you a 1/4 mile drag race & you declined. do you own one? Forget about what I own Longweekend. The fact is that your V8 clunker could not win against even a little motorbike - a 250cc in a 1/4 mile drag. Once - I saw a TZ 350cc 2 stroke from 1975 run a 10.23  1/4 mile time! Cars are very slow in acceleration compared to bikes - yet old men like you pretend they are racing car heros in their heavy V8s. True. Yet cars kill them under braking and in corners. Hence why even the top racing bikes in the world set similar lap times to a V8 supercar, and why street bikes get smashed by a decent sports car. Even with all that acceleration they set slower laps time because they are so slow everywhere else.

exactly. on a windy track a car wiill either keep up with or beat a bike. more rubber on the road. far superior braking and handling. the only the bike has is superior accelleration beccause of its lower weight.

Bobby. wrote on Jul 24^th, 2012 at 11:54pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 24th, 2012 at 3:29pm: Bobby. wrote on Jul 24th, 2012 at 3:15pm: Who said I don't own one? Coward - I offered you a 1/4 mile drag race & you declined. do you own one? Forget about what I own Longweekend. The fact is that your V8 clunker could not win against even a little motorbike - a 250cc in a 1/4 mile drag. Once - I saw a TZ 350cc 2 stroke from 1975 run a 10.23  1/4 mile time! Cars are very slow in acceleration compared to bikes - yet old men like you pretend they are racing car heros in their heavy V8s.

wow you are a serial loser. so you want to race a car I actually own in a bike you DONT own???

ok. I'll race your bike against my FA-18. after all neither of us own them. All you ever do is wage your own personal wankest.

idiot

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 2:32pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 24th, 2012 at 11:54pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 24th, 2012 at 3:29pm: Bobby. wrote on Jul 24th, 2012 at 3:15pm: Who said I don't own one? Coward - I offered you a 1/4 mile drag race & you declined. do you own one? Forget about what I own Longweekend. The fact is that your V8 clunker could not win against even a little motorbike - a 250cc in a 1/4 mile drag. Once - I saw a TZ 350cc 2 stroke from 1975 run a 10.23  1/4 mile time! Cars are very slow in acceleration compared to bikes - yet old men like you pretend they are racing car heros in their heavy V8s. wow you are a serial loser. so you want to race a car I actually own in a bike you DONT own??? ok. I'll race your bike against my FA-18. after all neither of us own them. All you ever do is wage your own personal wankest. idiot

If I was gonna race a v8 Ford or Holden I'd want the RAA on speed dial  :D

I dont know what the stats are but I know from my own experience that in the wealthy cities throughout Asia, Toyota, Honda, BMW and Mercedes are the cars you see more than any other.
That kinda shows why Ford and GM are wasting their time and should be closed down asap.
Even the smarter yanks would rather drive a Jap or German car if given the choice

adelcrow wrote on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 2:54pm:

I dont know what the stats are but I know from my own experience that in the wealthy cities throughout Asia, Toyota, Honda, BMW and Mercedes are the cars you see more than any other. That kinda shows why Ford and GM are wasting their time and should be closed down asap. Even the smarter yanks would rather drive a Jap or German car if given the choice

GM is in the number one spot for car sales. Toyota will probably take that back now that their factories are back online (Japan earthquake), but GM are still very much up there.

The big four are ; GM, Toyota, Nissan/Renault, and VW. Anyone of those four could take the number one spot in the next few years.

The next band is Hyundai and Ford with everyone else fighting for the scraps.

Globally Mercedes and BMW are nothing in car sales. Usually only selling about 1/6 of the big four, and about 1/4 of The next two (Hyundai and Ford).

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 2:32pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 24th, 2012 at 11:54pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 24th, 2012 at 3:29pm: Bobby. wrote on Jul 24th, 2012 at 3:15pm: Who said I don't own one? Coward - I offered you a 1/4 mile drag race & you declined. do you own one? Forget about what I own Longweekend. The fact is that your V8 clunker could not win against even a little motorbike - a 250cc in a 1/4 mile drag. Once - I saw a TZ 350cc 2 stroke from 1975 run a 10.23  1/4 mile time! Cars are very slow in acceleration compared to bikes - yet old men like you pretend they are racing car heros in their heavy V8s. wow you are a serial loser. so you want to race a car I actually own in a bike you DONT own??? ok. I'll race your bike against my FA-18. after all neither of us own them. All you ever do is wage your own personal wankest. idiot

But Longweekend - you think you're a racing car driver in your old V8 clunker -
get a life loser.

Bobby. wrote on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 7:13pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 2:32pm: Bobby. wrote on Jul 24th, 2012 at 11:54pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jul 24th, 2012 at 3:29pm: Bobby. wrote on Jul 24th, 2012 at 3:15pm: Who said I don't own one? Coward - I offered you a 1/4 mile drag race & you declined. do you own one? Forget about what I own Longweekend. The fact is that your V8 clunker could not win against even a little motorbike - a 250cc in a 1/4 mile drag. Once - I saw a TZ 350cc 2 stroke from 1975 run a 10.23  1/4 mile time! Cars are very slow in acceleration compared to bikes - yet old men like you pretend they are racing car heros in their heavy V8s. wow you are a serial loser. so you want to race a car I actually own in a bike you DONT own??? ok. I'll race your bike against my FA-18. after all neither of us own them. All you ever do is wage your own personal wankest. idiot But Longweekend - you think you're a racing car driver in your old V8 clunker - get a life loser.

give him a break ...at his age anything over 100km / hr is fast !!!!!

Yes but Longweekend - he carries on about his old car.
I use to race bikes & even a little 250cc bike would drag him off around any race track.
He's just a wanker.

Quantum wrote on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 3:22pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 2:54pm: I dont know what the stats are but I know from my own experience that in the wealthy cities throughout Asia, Toyota, Honda, BMW and Mercedes are the cars you see more than any other. That kinda shows why Ford and GM are wasting their time and should be closed down asap. Even the smarter yanks would rather drive a Jap or German car if given the choice GM is in the number one spot for car sales. Toyota will probably take that back now that their factories are back online (Japan earthquake), but GM are still very much up there. The big four are ; GM, Toyota, Nissan/Renault, and VW. Anyone of those four could take the number one spot in the next few years. The next band is Hyundai and Ford with everyone else fighting for the scraps. Globally Mercedes and BMW are nothing in car sales. Usually only selling about 1/6 of the big four, and about 1/4 of The next two (Hyundai and Ford).

Of course BMW and Mercs sell less in quantity simply because they are aiming for the premium end of the market. However the important point to note is the fact that BMW and Mercs sell ALL around the world whereas Ford and Holden sell to who ?

Bobby. wrote on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 7:43pm:

Yes but Longweekend - he carries on about his old car. I use to race bikes & even a little 250cc bike would drag him off around any race track. He's just a wanker.

madweekend thinks he is like this driver :D LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6_gUS8ByXA

Nail - I think this is the right link:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6_gUS8ByXA

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 8:18pm:

Quantum wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 3:22pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 2:54pm: I dont know what the stats are but I know from my own experience that in the wealthy cities throughout Asia, Toyota, Honda, BMW and Mercedes are the cars you see more than any other. That kinda shows why Ford and GM are wasting their time and should be closed down asap. Even the smarter yanks would rather drive a Jap or German car if given the choice GM is in the number one spot for car sales. Toyota will probably take that back now that their factories are back online (Japan earthquake), but GM are still very much up there. The big four are ; GM, Toyota, Nissan/Renault, and VW. Anyone of those four could take the number one spot in the next few years. The next band is Hyundai and Ford with everyone else fighting for the scraps. Globally Mercedes and BMW are nothing in car sales. Usually only selling about 1/6 of the big four, and about 1/4 of The next two (Hyundai and Ford). Of course BMW and Mercs sell less in quantity simply because they are aiming for the premium end of the market. However the important point to note is the fact that BMW and Mercs sell ALL around the world whereas Ford and Holden sell to who ?

You serious? Ford sell all around the world. GM also sell around the world under many different names including Holden. So what exactly is the question here?

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 8:18pm:

Quantum wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 3:22pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 2:54pm: I dont know what the stats are but I know from my own experience that in the wealthy cities throughout Asia, Toyota, Honda, BMW and Mercedes are the cars you see more than any other. That kinda shows why Ford and GM are wasting their time and should be closed down asap. Even the smarter yanks would rather drive a Jap or German car if given the choice GM is in the number one spot for car sales. Toyota will probably take that back now that their factories are back online (Japan earthquake), but GM are still very much up there. The big four are ; GM, Toyota, Nissan/Renault, and VW. Anyone of those four could take the number one spot in the next few years. The next band is Hyundai and Ford with everyone else fighting for the scraps. Globally Mercedes and BMW are nothing in car sales. Usually only selling about 1/6 of the big four, and about 1/4 of The next two (Hyundai and Ford). Of course BMW and Mercs sell less in quantity simply because they are aiming for the premium end of the market. However the important point to note is the fact that BMW and Mercs sell ALL around the world whereas Ford and Holden sell to who ?

Your kidding right? GM is Holden, is Opel and probably goes under a few more badges as well ... I doubt there are many countries that DON'T sell Ford or GM Vehicles, regardless of their badges

Quantum wrote on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 9:28pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 8:18pm: Quantum wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 3:22pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 2:54pm: I dont know what the stats are but I know from my own experience that in the wealthy cities throughout Asia, Toyota, Honda, BMW and Mercedes are the cars you see more than any other. That kinda shows why Ford and GM are wasting their time and should be closed down asap. Even the smarter yanks would rather drive a Jap or German car if given the choice GM is in the number one spot for car sales. Toyota will probably take that back now that their factories are back online (Japan earthquake), but GM are still very much up there. The big four are ; GM, Toyota, Nissan/Renault, and VW. Anyone of those four could take the number one spot in the next few years. The next band is Hyundai and Ford with everyone else fighting for the scraps. Globally Mercedes and BMW are nothing in car sales. Usually only selling about 1/6 of the big four, and about 1/4 of The next two (Hyundai and Ford). Of course BMW and Mercs sell less in quantity simply because they are aiming for the premium end of the market. However the important point to note is the fact that BMW and Mercs sell ALL around the world whereas Ford and Holden sell to who ? You serious? Ford sell all around the world. GM also sell around the world under many different names including Holden. So what exactly is the question here?

Which Australian made Ford and GM cars are sold all around the world ??

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 9:53pm:

Quantum wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 9:28pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 8:18pm: Quantum wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 3:22pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 2:54pm: I dont know what the stats are but I know from my own experience that in the wealthy cities throughout Asia, Toyota, Honda, BMW and Mercedes are the cars you see more than any other. That kinda shows why Ford and GM are wasting their time and should be closed down asap. Even the smarter yanks would rather drive a Jap or German car if given the choice GM is in the number one spot for car sales. Toyota will probably take that back now that their factories are back online (Japan earthquake), but GM are still very much up there. The big four are ; GM, Toyota, Nissan/Renault, and VW. Anyone of those four could take the number one spot in the next few years. The next band is Hyundai and Ford with everyone else fighting for the scraps. Globally Mercedes and BMW are nothing in car sales. Usually only selling about 1/6 of the big four, and about 1/4 of The next two (Hyundai and Ford). Of course BMW and Mercs sell less in quantity simply because they are aiming for the premium end of the market. However the important point to note is the fact that BMW and Mercs sell ALL around the world whereas Ford and Holden sell to who ? You serious? Ford sell all around the world. GM also sell around the world under many different names including Holden. So what exactly is the question here? Which Australian made Ford and GM cars are sold all around the world ??

That's irrelevant actually, as you are comparing one division of a major company to the full global sales of another. So what exactly is the point of this inquiry?

Having said that, if we were to look then we would find that the Australian companies do in fact export a lot of cars. They are often sold under different names, but the Australian divisions do export to Europe, Asia, America etc.

Quantum wrote on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 10:10pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 9:53pm: Quantum wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 9:28pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 8:18pm: Quantum wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 3:22pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 2:54pm: I dont know what the stats are but I know from my own experience that in the wealthy cities throughout Asia, Toyota, Honda, BMW and Mercedes are the cars you see more than any other. That kinda shows why Ford and GM are wasting their time and should be closed down asap. Even the smarter yanks would rather drive a Jap or German car if given the choice GM is in the number one spot for car sales. Toyota will probably take that back now that their factories are back online (Japan earthquake), but GM are still very much up there. The big four are ; GM, Toyota, Nissan/Renault, and VW. Anyone of those four could take the number one spot in the next few years. The next band is Hyundai and Ford with everyone else fighting for the scraps. Globally Mercedes and BMW are nothing in car sales. Usually only selling about 1/6 of the big four, and about 1/4 of The next two (Hyundai and Ford). Of course BMW and Mercs sell less in quantity simply because they are aiming for the premium end of the market. However the important point to note is the fact that BMW and Mercs sell ALL around the world whereas Ford and Holden sell to who ? You serious? Ford sell all around the world. GM also sell around the world under many different names including Holden. So what exactly is the question here? Which Australian made Ford and GM cars are sold all around the world ?? That's irrelevant actually, as you are comparing one division of a major company to the full global sales of another. So what exactly is the point of this inquiry? Having said that, if we were to look then we would find that the Australian companies do in fact export a lot of cars. They are often sold under different names, but the Australian divisions do export to Europe, Asia, America etc.

so why are they retrenching people if as you say they are exporting everywhere ??

Look how Holden treats all Australian design innovation into hybrid cars. This is why we keep giving them our hard earned money so they can thumb there nose up at innovation and keep making sh.t that nobody really wants :(

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2007/s2271918.htm


Quote:

Hybrid hype, but who killed the ECommodore? Yesterday the Government announced that it would be inject $35 million into a new Toyota hybrid car, the move has prompted many to query the fate of the Ecommodore. Produced by Holden and the CSIRO, the Ecommodore was the first all-Australian hybrid car and the VIP vehicle of the Sydney Olympics, but quickly disappeared. Transcript KERRY O'BRIEN, PRESENTER: As the Australian Government throws half a billion dollars at the greening of the Australian car industry and for all the excitement about the prospect of manufacturing a hybrid Toyota in Australia, it may surprise if not annoy you to learn that this is not the first time a local manufacturer has been given Government assistance to develop an environmentally friendly vehicle. Around 10 years ago, with the writing already on the wall in terms of declining oil supplies and the need to reduce greenhouse emissions, the CSIRO and Holden began working extensively together to produce an all-Australian hybrid Commodore. The result was the "Ecommodore" which with great fanfare was made the VIP car for the Sydney Olympics. But when the Olympics were over, Australia's green car idea went absolutely nowhere. Until Australian manufacturers were finally forced to face reality.

watch the video.

Business has too much freedom. :P :P

Quantum wrote on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 12:54am:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 9:15pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 9:06pm: Bobby. wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 8:57pm: John - have you read this thread? Why can't Ford make & export the best all electric car in the world? Ford can't make the best anything in the world .... Holden on the other hand, I would agree ... make cars that people want and their numbers will turn .... but regardless, we cannot afford to let  the auto industry die in Australia ... I think its an essential service .... Rubbish - if we put money into R&D we could make the best electric car in the world. Ford & Holden could be a part of it. Ford and Holden Australia are small time (side point, but why does everyone seem to forget Toyota Australia?). There is no way they can make the best electric car in the world. The way the system works is that the global companies spend billions (that's illions with a B, not M) in R&D. The Australian companies use the technology developed by the parent companies and incorporate it into their cars. They do very little development of their own. The cost of designing a fresh sheet car these days is anywhere from about 5 to 10 billions dollars. Toyota, Ford, Holden (and Mitsubishi before they went broke) do not design fresh sheet cars in Australia. Engines, platforms, transmission, are sourced from other models by the parent company. Hence why new cars in Australia only cost about 500-1000 million to design. That's because most of the expensive work has already been done by the parent company. It is insane to think Ford Australia with their tiny budget could come up with an electric car design better than what the parent company can do. The only realistic option is to wait for the parent company to spend billions coming up with the technology and then incorporating it into their next car. Likewise, the money the Australian government gives to Ford and Holden is nothing compared to the R&D budgets of the parent companies. So even putting all that money into electric car research will still leave them years behind.

Ohh come on - 5 to 10 billions dollars is a number you have pulled out of your backside.
Some people have made all electric cars in their home garages.

The $200 million that JuLiar gave away would have gone a long way
if Ford had matched it & added their R&D that they've already done.

Always excuses from people here.
We need a can do mentality.

Bobby. wrote on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 11:07pm:

Quantum wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 12:54am: Bobby. wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 9:15pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 9:06pm: Bobby. wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 8:57pm: John - have you read this thread? Why can't Ford make & export the best all electric car in the world? Ford can't make the best anything in the world .... Holden on the other hand, I would agree ... make cars that people want and their numbers will turn .... but regardless, we cannot afford to let  the auto industry die in Australia ... I think its an essential service .... Rubbish - if we put money into R&D we could make the best electric car in the world. Ford & Holden could be a part of it. Ford and Holden Australia are small time (side point, but why does everyone seem to forget Toyota Australia?). There is no way they can make the best electric car in the world. The way the system works is that the global companies spend billions (that's illions with a B, not M) in R&D. The Australian companies use the technology developed by the parent companies and incorporate it into their cars. They do very little development of their own. The cost of designing a fresh sheet car these days is anywhere from about 5 to 10 billions dollars. Toyota, Ford, Holden (and Mitsubishi before they went broke) do not design fresh sheet cars in Australia. Engines, platforms, transmission, are sourced from other models by the parent company. Hence why new cars in Australia only cost about 500-1000 million to design. That's because most of the expensive work has already been done by the parent company. It is insane to think Ford Australia with their tiny budget could come up with an electric car design better than what the parent company can do. The only realistic option is to wait for the parent company to spend billions coming up with the technology and then incorporating it into their next car. Likewise, the money the Australian government gives to Ford and Holden is nothing compared to the R&D budgets of the parent companies. So even putting all that money into electric car research will still leave them years behind. Ohh come on - 5 to 10 billions dollars is a number you have pulled out of your backside. Some people have made all electric cars in their home garages. The $200 million that JuLiar gave away would have gone a long way if Ford had matched it & added their R&D that they've already done. Always excuses from people here. We need a can do mentality.

The CSIRO did it for Holden for nothing which subsequently cost the taxpayer 20 mill in 2000. What did Holden do with this world beating technology ?? Nothing of course except to completely ignore it whilst continuing on building gas guzzlers that nobody really wants anymore :(

Now, we the tax payers have to compensate Holden for their pig headedness and stupidity :(

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2007/s2271918.htm

Bobby. wrote on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 11:07pm:

Quantum wrote on Jul 27th, 2012 at 12:54am: Bobby. wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 9:15pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 9:06pm: Bobby. wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 8:57pm: John - have you read this thread? Why can't Ford make & export the best all electric car in the world? Ford can't make the best anything in the world .... Holden on the other hand, I would agree ... make cars that people want and their numbers will turn .... but regardless, we cannot afford to let  the auto industry die in Australia ... I think its an essential service .... Rubbish - if we put money into R&D we could make the best electric car in the world. Ford & Holden could be a part of it. Ford and Holden Australia are small time (side point, but why does everyone seem to forget Toyota Australia?). There is no way they can make the best electric car in the world. The way the system works is that the global companies spend billions (that's illions with a B, not M) in R&D. The Australian companies use the technology developed by the parent companies and incorporate it into their cars. They do very little development of their own. The cost of designing a fresh sheet car these days is anywhere from about 5 to 10 billions dollars. Toyota, Ford, Holden (and Mitsubishi before they went broke) do not design fresh sheet cars in Australia. Engines, platforms, transmission, are sourced from other models by the parent company. Hence why new cars in Australia only cost about 500-1000 million to design. That's because most of the expensive work has already been done by the parent company. It is insane to think Ford Australia with their tiny budget could come up with an electric car design better than what the parent company can do. The only realistic option is to wait for the parent company to spend billions coming up with the technology and then incorporating it into their next car. Likewise, the money the Australian government gives to Ford and Holden is nothing compared to the R&D budgets of the parent companies. So even putting all that money into electric car research will still leave them years behind. Ohh come on - 5 to 10 billions dollars is a number you have pulled out of your backside. Some people have made all electric cars in their home garages. The $200 million that JuLiar gave away would have gone a long way if Ford had matched it & added their R&D that they've already done. Always excuses from people here. We need a can do mentality.

Read up on the auto industry before you accuse people of making stuff up. It cost a fortune to develop a new car from scratch. The current Holden commodore cost 1 billion to develop, and that is with a very large percentage of the car being sourced from other models in the GM empire. It is far from a clean sheet. The last model Camry even cost $350 million just to modify it for Australian conditions. This is a car that was fully designed and just needed to be adapted.

There is a massive difference between making one off prototypes and designing a car that can be produced and sold. Making a new car takes thousands of people years designing and sourcing every part, testing them, redesigning, retesting, redesigning etc. Then the actual factories have to be retooled to make the new car with more designing, contracting, etc taking place. All this has to be done to ever demanding laws. This is why it cost billions, whether you believe it or not.

Does anyone really think that Holden or Ford could make an awesome electric car that is;

Better than anything that runs on petrol;
Can do it all for a few hundred million dollars;
Sell millions of them around the world and make billions of dollars doing so;
But, they don't because they are too dumb and like to run at a loss?

What this forum needs is not a "can do mentality", but a reality Mentality. Too many people have all the answers and no knowledge of the auto industry. This is why they think that everyone explaining the truth of the situation is making excuses.

Quote:

What this forum needs is not a "can do mentality", but a reality Mentality. Too many people have all the answers and no knowledge of the auto industry. This is why they think that everyone explaining the truth of the situation is making excuses.

The time for excuses is over.
You forget that the body, suspension & just about everything else can be the same.
People just pull out the old engine, transmission etc & replace
it all with a  brushless electric motor & battery.
It's not that hard mate.
That's why some people can do it in their home garages.

Bobby. wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 7:59am:

Quote: What this forum needs is not a "can do mentality", but a reality Mentality. Too many people have all the answers and no knowledge of the auto industry. This is why they think that everyone explaining the truth of the situation is making excuses. The time for excuses is over. You forget that the body, suspension & just about everything else can be the same. People just pull out the old engine, transmission etc & replace it all with a  brushless electric motor & battery. It's not that hard mate. That's why some people can do it in their home garages.

No it can't.

Electric cars have different weight, weight distribution, and if done properly have the electric motors connected directly to the wheels. This requires total suspension redesign.

Electric cars have the batteries as low as possible to keep the COG down, better cooling, and space saving. This needs a completely different chassis as there is no need for an engine but room needed for these batteries.

What you are talking about are nothing but one off garage jobs. The big manufactures do this all the time. They call them concept cars. They cost thousands, sometimes a few million to make. But when ever they do bring them into production they require massive redesign and testing, as well as huge consideration to cost reduction and manufacturing. This is what cost billions to make happen.

These private garage jobs are significantly inferior to proper manufacturer designed electric cars. They are in no way at a mass production level.

Quantum wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 9:41am:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 28th, 2012 at 7:59am: Quote: What this forum needs is not a "can do mentality", but a reality Mentality. Too many people have all the answers and no knowledge of the auto industry. This is why they think that everyone explaining the truth of the situation is making excuses. The time for excuses is over. You forget that the body, suspension & just about everything else can be the same. People just pull out the old engine, transmission etc & replace it all with a  brushless electric motor & battery. It's not that hard mate. That's why some people can do it in their home garages. No it can't. Electric cars have different weight, weight distribution, and if done properly have the electric motors connected directly to the wheels. This requires total suspension redesign. Electric cars have the batteries as low as possible to keep the COG down, better cooling, and space saving. This needs a completely different chassis as there is no need for an engine but room needed for these batteries. What you are talking about are nothing but one off garage jobs. The big manufactures do this all the time. They call them concept cars. They cost thousands, sometimes a few million to make. But when ever they do bring them into production they require massive redesign and testing, as well as huge consideration to cost reduction and manufacturing. This is what cost billions to make happen. These private garage jobs are significantly inferior to proper manufacturer designed electric cars. They are in no way at a mass production level.

Then how do these backyarders get these EV conversions road worthy and registered to drive on Australian roads if they are so inferior ?

http://www.evcapri.com/new/Kearons_EV_Capri_-_100_electric_car_conversion/Blog/Blog.html

Also did this dude get the billions needed to build EV's ??

http://bev.com.au/

Also what about this mob and their converted Commodores ??

http://www.evengineering.com.au/

Like bobby said the time for excuses is well and truly over !!

Bobby. wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 7:59am:

Quote: What this forum needs is not a "can do mentality", but a reality Mentality. Too many people have all the answers and no knowledge of the auto industry. This is why they think that everyone explaining the truth of the situation is making excuses. The time for excuses is over. You forget that the body, suspension & just about everything else can be the same. People just pull out the old engine, transmission etc & replace it all with a  brushless electric motor & battery. It's not that hard mate. That's why some people can do it in their home garages.

Holden and Ford are like an old computer company that expects to profit out of manufacturing the original IBM XT computer with a 5 MHz 8/16 bit CPU, 256K of memory,  a 5 megabyte hard drive and 360K floppy disk drive running MSDOS 2.11 and Windows 1.01. And when nobody wants to buy their sh.t they make lame excuses and go running to the government for handouts to try and make up for the profits they can't possibly ever make !! And when they suck the government in for more money they tell the government they are working on a new version with an 8MHz processor and 10 Megabyte hard drive whilst everyone else has moved on and are using the latest 3.6GHz Quadcore computer running Windows 7 :D LOL

Would the people here defending Holden and Ford expect tax payers to bail them out if they were making old computers that nobody wanted anymore ??

Nail,

Quote:

Would the people here defending Holden and Ford expect tax payers to bail them out if they were making old computers that nobody wanted anymore ??

It seems that way Nail.
The people here seem to be on the side of this useless government.
Maybe they are public servants?

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 11:19am:

Quantum wrote on Jul 28th, 2012 at 9:41am: Bobby. wrote on Jul 28th, 2012 at 7:59am: Quote: What this forum needs is not a "can do mentality", but a reality Mentality. Too many people have all the answers and no knowledge of the auto industry. This is why they think that everyone explaining the truth of the situation is making excuses. The time for excuses is over. You forget that the body, suspension & just about everything else can be the same. People just pull out the old engine, transmission etc & replace it all with a  brushless electric motor & battery. It's not that hard mate. That's why some people can do it in their home garages. No it can't. Electric cars have different weight, weight distribution, and if done properly have the electric motors connected directly to the wheels. This requires total suspension redesign. Electric cars have the batteries as low as possible to keep the COG down, better cooling, and space saving. This needs a completely different chassis as there is no need for an engine but room needed for these batteries. What you are talking about are nothing but one off garage jobs. The big manufactures do this all the time. They call them concept cars. They cost thousands, sometimes a few million to make. But when ever they do bring them into production they require massive redesign and testing, as well as huge consideration to cost reduction and manufacturing. This is what cost billions to make happen. These private garage jobs are significantly inferior to proper manufacturer designed electric cars. They are in no way at a mass production level. Then how do these backyarders get these EV conversions road worthy and registered to drive on Australian roads if they are so inferior ? http://www.evcapri.com/new/Kearons_EV_Capri_-_100_electric_car_conversion/Blog/Blog.html Also did this dude get the billions needed to build EV's ?? http://bev.com.au/ Also what about this mob and their converted Commodores ?? http://www.evengineering.com.au/ Like bobby said the time for excuses is well and truly over !!

Because there are different standards from personal to corporate. This is why you can drive a left hand side wheel in Australia with permission, but Toyota could not sell a left hand drive car. This is why you can make a V8 hot rod, but Ford couldn't sell it due to emission controls. This is why you can build a light little roadster, but Holden couldn't due to safety requirements.

There are different rules applied to manufacturers than to garage jobs. Many of the safety, environmental, and quality requirements do not apply to a privately built car. There is also a huge difference between building a one off concept (often built as you go with little in planning) compared to building a car than can be legally mass produced.

Every manufacturer has built concept cars quickly for little money (often under a million dollars). Yet it cost hundred of millions and often billions to turn them into sellable road vehicles.

Do you think they spend all that extra money just for the fun of it? That they would hire 1000 people for 5 years and spend 3, or 4, or 5, or 6 billions dollars, when it could be made by one person in a garage for 10 or 20 thousand dollars. Really?

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 11:26am:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 28th, 2012 at 7:59am: Quote: What this forum needs is not a "can do mentality", but a reality Mentality. Too many people have all the answers and no knowledge of the auto industry. This is why they think that everyone explaining the truth of the situation is making excuses. The time for excuses is over. You forget that the body, suspension & just about everything else can be the same. People just pull out the old engine, transmission etc & replace it all with a  brushless electric motor & battery. It's not that hard mate. That's why some people can do it in their home garages. Holden and Ford are like an old computer company that expects to profit out of manufacturing the original IBM XT computer with a 5 MHz 8/16 bit CPU, 256K of memory,  a 5 megabyte hard drive and 360K floppy disk drive running MSDOS 2.11 and Windows 1.01. And when nobody wants to buy their sh.t they make lame excuses and go running to the government for handouts to try and make up for the profits they can't possibly ever make !! And when they suck the government in for more money they tell the government they are working on a new version with an 8MHz processor and 10 Megabyte hard drive whilst everyone else has moved on and are using the latest 3.6GHz Quadcore computer running Windows 7 :D LOL Would the people here defending Holden and Ford expect tax payers to bail them out if they were making old computers that nobody wanted anymore ??

This is the worse example I have seen yet. I am no fan of Holden or ford, but their cars are technologically on par with anything from Asia, America, or Europe. Why wouldn't they be? A large percentage of the parts in them are designed and built by other companies that also build for many other manufacturers. Or are you unaware that there are hundreds of specialty companies that build transmissions, suspension parts, radiators, electrical systems, and then have contracts to many different brands? You do know that the same company that designs and builds the auto transmission for Ford also builds them for BMW right?

Quantum wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 4:26pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 28th, 2012 at 11:19am: Quantum wrote on Jul 28th, 2012 at 9:41am: Bobby. wrote on Jul 28th, 2012 at 7:59am: Quote: What this forum needs is not a "can do mentality", but a reality Mentality. Too many people have all the answers and no knowledge of the auto industry. This is why they think that everyone explaining the truth of the situation is making excuses. The time for excuses is over. You forget that the body, suspension & just about everything else can be the same. People just pull out the old engine, transmission etc & replace it all with a  brushless electric motor & battery. It's not that hard mate. That's why some people can do it in their home garages. No it can't. Electric cars have different weight, weight distribution, and if done properly have the electric motors connected directly to the wheels. This requires total suspension redesign. Electric cars have the batteries as low as possible to keep the COG down, better cooling, and space saving. This needs a completely different chassis as there is no need for an engine but room needed for these batteries. What you are talking about are nothing but one off garage jobs. The big manufactures do this all the time. They call them concept cars. They cost thousands, sometimes a few million to make. But when ever they do bring them into production they require massive redesign and testing, as well as huge consideration to cost reduction and manufacturing. This is what cost billions to make happen. These private garage jobs are significantly inferior to proper manufacturer designed electric cars. They are in no way at a mass production level. Then how do these backyarders get these EV conversions road worthy and registered to drive on Australian roads if they are so inferior ? http://www.evcapri.com/new/Kearons_EV_Capri_-_100_electric_car_conversion/Blog/Blog.html Also did this dude get the billions needed to build EV's ?? http://bev.com.au/ Also what about this mob and their converted Commodores ?? http://www.evengineering.com.au/ Like bobby said the time for excuses is well and truly over !! Because there are different standards from personal to corporate. This is why you can drive a left hand side wheel in Australia with permission, but Toyota could not sell a left hand drive car. This is why you can make a V8 hot rod, but Ford couldn't sell it due to emission controls. This is why you can build a light little roadster, but Holden couldn't due to safety requirements. There are different rules applied to manufacturers than to garage jobs. Many of the safety, environmental, and quality requirements do not apply to a privately built car. There is also a huge difference between building a one off concept (often built as you go with little in planning) compared to building a car than can be legally mass produced. Every manufacturer has built concept cars quickly for little money (often under a million dollars). Yet it cost hundred of millions and often billions to turn them into sellable road vehicles. Do you think they spend all that extra money just for the fun of it? That they would hire 1000 people for 5 years and spend 3, or 4, or 5, or 6 billions dollars, when it could be made by one person in a garage for 10 or 20 thousand dollars. Really?

What on earth are you talking about !!

If backyarders can get EV conversions on the road and registered without spending billions then what's the problem with Holden and Ford ??

They obviously just want the money for the sake of wanting the money :(

Quantum wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 4:48pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 28th, 2012 at 11:26am: Bobby. wrote on Jul 28th, 2012 at 7:59am: Quote: What this forum needs is not a "can do mentality", but a reality Mentality. Too many people have all the answers and no knowledge of the auto industry. This is why they think that everyone explaining the truth of the situation is making excuses. The time for excuses is over. You forget that the body, suspension & just about everything else can be the same. People just pull out the old engine, transmission etc & replace it all with a  brushless electric motor & battery. It's not that hard mate. That's why some people can do it in their home garages. Holden and Ford are like an old computer company that expects to profit out of manufacturing the original IBM XT computer with a 5 MHz 8/16 bit CPU, 256K of memory,  a 5 megabyte hard drive and 360K floppy disk drive running MSDOS 2.11 and Windows 1.01. And when nobody wants to buy their sh.t they make lame excuses and go running to the government for handouts to try and make up for the profits they can't possibly ever make !! And when they suck the government in for more money they tell the government they are working on a new version with an 8MHz processor and 10 Megabyte hard drive whilst everyone else has moved on and are using the latest 3.6GHz Quadcore computer running Windows 7 :D LOL Would the people here defending Holden and Ford expect tax payers to bail them out if they were making old computers that nobody wanted anymore ?? This is the worse example I have seen yet. I am no fan of Holden or ford, but their cars are technologically on par with anything from Asia, America, or Europe. Why wouldn't they be? A large percentage of the parts in them are designed and built by other companies that also build for many other manufacturers. Or are you unaware that there are hundreds of specialty companies that build transmissions, suspension parts, radiators, electrical systems, and then have contracts to many different brands? You do know that the same company that designs and builds the auto transmission for Ford also builds them for BMW right?

It's an appropriate example given the facts.

Exhibit 'A': Ford's green car in the US !! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJjQdrDtUWo

Exhibit 'B': Fords green car in Australia :(

http://cdn0.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/geelong-ford_i6_production.jpg

http://www.caradvice.com.au/64732/ford-australia-announcesd-20-million-green-upgrade-to-retain-skills-create-jobs/

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 5:15pm:

Quantum wrote on Jul 28th, 2012 at 4:26pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 28th, 2012 at 11:19am: Quantum wrote on Jul 28th, 2012 at 9:41am: Bobby. wrote on Jul 28th, 2012 at 7:59am: Quote: What this forum needs is not a "can do mentality", but a reality Mentality. Too many people have all the answers and no knowledge of the auto industry. This is why they think that everyone explaining the truth of the situation is making excuses. The time for excuses is over. You forget that the body, suspension & just about everything else can be the same. People just pull out the old engine, transmission etc & replace it all with a  brushless electric motor & battery. It's not that hard mate. That's why some people can do it in their home garages. No it can't. Electric cars have different weight, weight distribution, and if done properly have the electric motors connected directly to the wheels. This requires total suspension redesign. Electric cars have the batteries as low as possible to keep the COG down, better cooling, and space saving. This needs a completely different chassis as there is no need for an engine but room needed for these batteries. What you are talking about are nothing but one off garage jobs. The big manufactures do this all the time. They call them concept cars. They cost thousands, sometimes a few million to make. But when ever they do bring them into production they require massive redesign and testing, as well as huge consideration to cost reduction and manufacturing. This is what cost billions to make happen. These private garage jobs are significantly inferior to proper manufacturer designed electric cars. They are in no way at a mass production level. Then how do these backyarders get these EV conversions road worthy and registered to drive on Australian roads if they are so inferior ? http://www.evcapri.com/new/Kearons_EV_Capri_-_100_electric_car_conversion/Blog/Blog.html Also did this dude get the billions needed to build EV's ?? http://bev.com.au/ Also what about this mob and their converted Commodores ?? http://www.evengineering.com.au/ Like bobby said the time for excuses is well and truly over !! Because there are different standards from personal to corporate. This is why you can drive a left hand side wheel in Australia with permission, but Toyota could not sell a left hand drive car. This is why you can make a V8 hot rod, but Ford couldn't sell it due to emission controls. This is why you can build a light little roadster, but Holden couldn't due to safety requirements. There are different rules applied to manufacturers than to garage jobs. Many of the safety, environmental, and quality requirements do not apply to a privately built car. There is also a huge difference between building a one off concept (often built as you go with little in planning) compared to building a car than can be legally mass produced. Every manufacturer has built concept cars quickly for little money (often under a million dollars). Yet it cost hundred of millions and often billions to turn them into sellable road vehicles. Do you think they spend all that extra money just for the fun of it? That they would hire 1000 people for 5 years and spend 3, or 4, or 5, or 6 billions dollars, when it could be made by one person in a garage for 10 or 20 thousand dollars. Really? What on earth are you talking about !! If backyarders can get EV conversions on the road and registered without spending billions then what's the problem with Holden and Ford ?? They obviously just want the money for the sake of wanting the money :(

Because you are comparing projects (and even just private hobbies) to designing and manufacturing a real mass produced car. Getting an old car and sticking an electric motor in it is nothing compared to designing an all new electric car.

How about you answer the earlier question. If cars can be designed in a small garage for thousands of dollars that are as good (or apparently better) than any other car, then why do the big manufactures spend billions? If it can be done for so cheap why do they waist all that money?

So far the only answer that seems to be given is that their dumb. They just spend for the sake of it when it could be done for sooooo cheap.

Quote:

Because you are comparing projects (and even just private hobbies) to designing and manufacturing a real mass produced car. Getting an old car and sticking an electric motor in it is nothing compared to designing an all new electric car. How about you answer the earlier question. If cars can be designed in a small garage for thousands of dollars that are as good (or apparently better) than any other car, then why do the big manufactures spend billions? If it can be done for so cheap why do they waist all that money? So far the only answer that seems to be given is that their dumb. They just spend for the sake of it when it could be done for sooooo cheap.

Listen Pal,
Have you read the links that Nail has provided?

When some people say that we can't - I say - yes we can.

Bobby. wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 7:28pm:

Quote: Because you are comparing projects (and even just private hobbies) to designing and manufacturing a real mass produced car. Getting an old car and sticking an electric motor in it is nothing compared to designing an all new electric car. How about you answer the earlier question. If cars can be designed in a small garage for thousands of dollars that are as good (or apparently better) than any other car, then why do the big manufactures spend billions? If it can be done for so cheap why do they waist all that money? So far the only answer that seems to be given is that their dumb. They just spend for the sake of it when it could be done for sooooo cheap. Listen Pal, Have you read the links that Nail has provided? When some people say that we can't - I say - yes we can.

So if someone says that no matter how fast anyone flaps their arms they will not be able to fly to the moon, you simply say... Yes we can.

There are many things that are not possible, no matter how positive you want to be. Most of the solutions to the car industry on this thread are simply unrealistic and naive. In fact, they are not even actual solutions, but just visions of what they want it to be and reality be damned.

Yes I have looked at the links. None of them are showing anything that is ready to be produced on mass scale. Most of it is just development work, proof of concept, or simply hack jobs. Nothing yet at the level that would be ready to tool up a factory and start pumping them out. Why is that simple fact too hard for some people to grasp?