??

Nissan is now importing and selling the all electric LEAF.
Mitsubishi is importing the all electric MiEV and leasing it out to fleets.
By September/October of this year Holden will be importing and selling its plugin hybrid VOLT.
Renaulkt will be importing and selling it's all electric Flaurence with swappable battery technology some time this year.
The all electric Ford Focus TBA.
The chinese and Koreans are developing their versions of plugin hybrids and all electric cars.

The BIG question is is why, for all of the billions that has been pumped into these foreign car corporations is why none of them have produced a car with an electric plug on the end ?

Why do we bail them out anyway?

Especially since with the carbon tax we are trying to get rid of them arent we? Doublethink.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Why do we bail them out anyway? Especially since with the carbon tax we are trying to get rid of them arent we? Doublethink. SOB

yes why do we bail them out and no one else ?

If the pollies think other businesses are not worthy of a bailout then why take taxes off them ?

Mining companies produce ore, not metals.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Why do we bail them out anyway? Especially since with the carbon tax we are trying to get rid of them arent we? Doublethink. SOB

You must be Japanese...why do we give Japanese manufacturers a competitive advantage over our own by abolishing Tariffs?

A.)  because of halfwits like you. 8-)

I don't have a problem with Govt investing in the automotive industry, sensibly. It employs many people both directly and indirectly and contributes to advanced skills in engineering etc. We are one of only 15 countries worldwide with the capability to produce a vehicle right through from design to production, and we are certainly not alone in providing Govt assistance to automotive industry. IIRC, there are only 2 or 3 car manufacturing countries that don't provide assistance to the industry. The industry in the US, UK, Germany, Sth Africa, Sweden, Thailand (and many more) all get major Govt assistance.

There's nothing wrong with Australian made cars. On a value basis they are the equal of anything else in their class anywhere in the World. The problem is that they are not made by Australian companies and so they have little to gain by maintaining an Australian manufacturing operation. eg: The Falcon and Territory would be perfect for the US market. But they would decimate the sales of the Crown Vic and Exploder, so Ford does not want to export them there.

The key to getting value for the investment dollar is to tie it to exports. Only Toyota currently has a large export program for its vehicles, while Ford (especially) and Holden only have small export programs. The Govt should get serious about the industry and offer them major assistance. But only on the condition that they meet KPIs on exports of the vehicles.

All the vehicle manufacturers now are moving towards a worldwide standardised product line. There is no reason why Ford Australia could not be the production source of, say, the mid-size SUV for the World market (ie the Territory). Toyota have done it, Holden/GM have made a half-hearted attempt, Ford have done nothing.

The Govt needs to give the manufacturers an ultimatum: Take our money and export or get nothing and go away.

The Australian Government is legally obliged to add tariffs to every car imported to Australia to make sure they meet normal Australian production cost standards to make sure our manufacturing industries are not unfairly under cut.... Only the Rise Up Australia Party will ensure this happens and Australian conditions and laws are not circumvented....http://riseupaustraliaparty.com:)

Prevailing wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 11:29pm:

The Australian Government is legally obliged to add tariffs to every car imported to Australia to make sure they meet normal Australian production cost standards to make sure our manufacturing industries are not unfairly under cut....

While you can make a case for some tariff protection, there is also a downside. Tariffs can make manufacturers lazy when it comes to quality and value for money. I'd be happy with tariffs to stay where they are now.



Quote:

Only the Rise Up Australia Party will ensure this happens and Australian conditions and laws are not circumvented....http://riseupaustraliaparty.com:)

Isn't a little bit ironic that the "rise up Australia party", arguing for keeping things Australian, does not even have an Australian domain name (ie .au)?....and, worse, has a website that is hosted in the US by a US-owned company. How can one argue for keeping things Australian when they don't even bother to host their own website here?  ::)

NBNMyths wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 11:50pm:

Prevailing wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 11:29pm: The Australian Government is legally obliged to add tariffs to every car imported to Australia to make sure they meet normal Australian production cost standards to make sure our manufacturing industries are not unfairly under cut.... While you can make a case for some tariff protection, there is also a downside. Tariffs can make manufacturers lazy when it comes to quality and value for money. I'd be happy with tariffs to stay where they are now. Quote: Only the Rise Up Australia Party will ensure this happens and Australian conditions and laws are not circumvented....http://riseupaustraliaparty.com:) Isn't a little bit ironic that the "rise up Australia party", arguing for keeping things Australian, does not even have an Australian domain name (ie .au)?....and, worse, has a website that is hosted in the US by a US-owned company. How can one argue for keeping things Australian when they don't even bother to host their own website here?  ::)

Oh bite me, they are a grass roots outer metro working class social conservative party.  They don't get the massive corporate funding that flows to the Greens and the lib/Lab...They use what is available for free.  Tariffs are simply a level playing field to make sure the same production costs are incurred by our competitors and we are not competing with exploitative child labor, sweat shops and poor safety conditions. :P

Prevailing wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 12:05am:

NBNMyths wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 11:50pm: Prevailing wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 11:29pm: The Australian Government is legally obliged to add tariffs to every car imported to Australia to make sure they meet normal Australian production cost standards to make sure our manufacturing industries are not unfairly under cut.... While you can make a case for some tariff protection, there is also a downside. Tariffs can make manufacturers lazy when it comes to quality and value for money. I'd be happy with tariffs to stay where they are now. Quote: Only the Rise Up Australia Party will ensure this happens and Australian conditions and laws are not circumvented....http://riseupaustraliaparty.com:) Isn't a little bit ironic that the "rise up Australia party", arguing for keeping things Australian, does not even have an Australian domain name (ie .au)?....and, worse, has a website that is hosted in the US by a US-owned company. How can one argue for keeping things Australian when they don't even bother to host their own website here?  ::) Oh bite me, they are a grass roots outer metro working class social conservative party.  They don't get the massive corporate funding that flows to the Greens and the lib/Lab...They use what is available for free.  Tariffs are simply a level playing field to make sure the same production costs are incurred by our competitors and we are not competing with exploitative child labor, sweat shops and poor safety conditions. :P

Riiight.... So you're happy to force everyone to pay 20% more for cars, but you're not happy to put your own money where your mouth is by spending an extra $24/year supporting a top Australian web host?
Rise Up Australia hosts in the USA for US$4/month: http://www.hostgator.com/
They could get Aust hosting here for A$6/month: http://www.ventraipeconomy.com.au/web-hosting/

....Or actually pay less than US hosting here: http://zuver.net.au/web-hosting

The hypocrisy, it burns.  ::)

Oh, and our car manufacturers are losing out to other 1st-world car manufacturing nations such as the US and Japan, not to countries like China. A prospective Territory buyer doesn't choose a Great Wall ute instead. They might choose a Kluger though (if they haven't read the Wheels test -http://bit.ly/kluger1, http://bit.ly/kluger2), made in a safe and well-paid Japanese facility.

NBNMyths wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 12:25am:

Prevailing wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 12:05am: NBNMyths wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 11:50pm: Prevailing wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 11:29pm: The Australian Government is legally obliged to add tariffs to every car imported to Australia to make sure they meet normal Australian production cost standards to make sure our manufacturing industries are not unfairly under cut.... While you can make a case for some tariff protection, there is also a downside. Tariffs can make manufacturers lazy when it comes to quality and value for money. I'd be happy with tariffs to stay where they are now. Quote: Only the Rise Up Australia Party will ensure this happens and Australian conditions and laws are not circumvented....http://riseupaustraliaparty.com:) Isn't a little bit ironic that the "rise up Australia party", arguing for keeping things Australian, does not even have an Australian domain name (ie .au)?....and, worse, has a website that is hosted in the US by a US-owned company. How can one argue for keeping things Australian when they don't even bother to host their own website here?  ::) Oh bite me, they are a grass roots outer metro working class social conservative party.  They don't get the massive corporate funding that flows to the Greens and the lib/Lab...They use what is available for free.  Tariffs are simply a level playing field to make sure the same production costs are incurred by our competitors and we are not competing with exploitative child labor, sweat shops and poor safety conditions. :P Riiight.... So you're happy to force everyone to pay 20% more for cars, but you're not happy to put your own money where your mouth is by spending an extra $24/year supporting a top Australian web host? Rise Up Australia hosts in the USA for US$4/month: http://www.hostgator.com/ They could get Aust hosting here for A$6/month: http://www.ventraipeconomy.com.au/web-hosting/ ....Or actually pay less than US hosting here: http://zuver.net.au/web-hosting The hypocrisy, it burns.  ::) Oh, and our car manufacturers are losing out to other 1st-world car manufacturing nations such as the US and Japan, not to countries like China. A prospective Territory buyer doesn't choose a Great Wall ute instead. They might choose a Kluger though (if they haven't read the Wheels test -http://bit.ly/kluger1, http://bit.ly/kluger2), made in a safe and well-paid Japanese facility.

Yes I am happy to see you not buy cars manufactured under sub standard conditions not permitted in our own country and that is the true intent of our law.  Australians may not be undercut in our own country by foreign competition given unfair advantage.  You know it. Stick with your over funded corporate mates - the suburbs are rising and we are not going to take Gillard, Abbott or the greens crap any more...got efficiency? 8-) ;D ::)

Let them go to the wall. There's still plenty of work to be done.

Put tariffs and duties on imported products that make sure they comply with Australias production cost standards....Tariffs help prevent child exploitation/abuse and worker deaths.... :) :)

NBNMyths wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 11:13pm:

I don't have a problem with Govt investing in the automotive industry, sensibly. It employs many people both directly and indirectly and contributes to advanced skills in engineering etc. We are one of only 15 countries worldwide with the capability to produce a vehicle right through from design to production, and we are certainly not alone in providing Govt assistance to automotive industry. IIRC, there are only 2 or 3 car manufacturing countries that don't provide assistance to the industry. The industry in the US, UK, Germany, Sth Africa, Sweden, Thailand (and many more) all get major Govt assistance. There's nothing wrong with Australian made cars. On a value basis they are the equal of anything else in their class anywhere in the World. The problem is that they are not made by Australian companies and so they have little to gain by maintaining an Australian manufacturing operation. eg: The Falcon and Territory would be perfect for the US market. But they would decimate the sales of the Crown Vic and Exploder, so Ford does not want to export them there. The key to getting value for the investment dollar is to tie it to exports. Only Toyota currently has a large export program for its vehicles, while Ford (especially) and Holden only have small export programs. The Govt should get serious about the industry and offer them major assistance. But only on the condition that they meet KPIs on exports of the vehicles. All the vehicle manufacturers now are moving towards a worldwide standardised product line. There is no reason why Ford Australia could not be the production source of, say, the mid-size SUV for the World market (ie the Territory). Toyota have done it, Holden/GM have made a half-hearted attempt, Ford have done nothing. The Govt needs to give the manufacturers an ultimatum: Take our money and export or get nothing and go away.

RUBBISH !!

What about any all Australian business that gets nothing ?? Are they supposed to take it up the arse each time Holden and Ford gets bailed out ?

And how do countries like Germany have their OWN car industries which export premium quality cars all over the world whilst not having to continuously subsidize foreign car corporations ??

It's about time the Aussie gov grew a pair of balls and told  these Holden and Ford scammers to f.ckoff. And they can leave all of their equipment behind because we have well and truly paid for that many times over !! It belongs to the Australian tax payer now.

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 7:51pm:

NBNMyths wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 11:13pm: I don't have a problem with Govt investing in the automotive industry, sensibly. It employs many people both directly and indirectly and contributes to advanced skills in engineering etc. We are one of only 15 countries worldwide with the capability to produce a vehicle right through from design to production, and we are certainly not alone in providing Govt assistance to automotive industry. IIRC, there are only 2 or 3 car manufacturing countries that don't provide assistance to the industry. The industry in the US, UK, Germany, Sth Africa, Sweden, Thailand (and many more) all get major Govt assistance. There's nothing wrong with Australian made cars. On a value basis they are the equal of anything else in their class anywhere in the World. The problem is that they are not made by Australian companies and so they have little to gain by maintaining an Australian manufacturing operation. eg: The Falcon and Territory would be perfect for the US market. But they would decimate the sales of the Crown Vic and Exploder, so Ford does not want to export them there. The key to getting value for the investment dollar is to tie it to exports. Only Toyota currently has a large export program for its vehicles, while Ford (especially) and Holden only have small export programs. The Govt should get serious about the industry and offer them major assistance. But only on the condition that they meet KPIs on exports of the vehicles. All the vehicle manufacturers now are moving towards a worldwide standardised product line. There is no reason why Ford Australia could not be the production source of, say, the mid-size SUV for the World market (ie the Territory). Toyota have done it, Holden/GM have made a half-hearted attempt, Ford have done nothing. The Govt needs to give the manufacturers an ultimatum: Take our money and export or get nothing and go away. RUBBISH !! What about any all Australian business that gets nothing ?? Are they supposed to take it up the arse each time Holden and Ford gets bailed out ? And how do countries like Germany have their OWN car industries which export premium quality cars all over the world whilst not having to continuously subsidize foreign car corporations ?? It's about time the Aussie gov grew a pair of balls and told  these Holden and Ford scammers to f.ckoff. And they can leave all of their equipment behind because we have well and truly paid for that many times over !! It belongs to the Australian tax payer now.

When Ford, Holden and Toyota get "bailed out" it helps plenty of Australian companies who supply those three. If Ford, Toyota and Holden go, then so do all their suppliers.

The German Government actually give billions to their car industry. In 2009 alone, they provided $1.5 billion Euro to them in assistance.

The German manufacturers have also started offshoring their production to other countries. In fact, "German" cars are currently made in the US, South Africa, Mexico, Argentina, India and China. Starting this year, there are very few BMW or VW models being sold in Australia that are made in Germany.

Automotive industry assistance, worldwide:
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/1rslr.jpg

What - no Tariffs and import duties?  Who is compromising Australian manufacturing standards and laws? >:( >:(

NBNMyths wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 8:32pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 7:51pm: NBNMyths wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 11:13pm: I don't have a problem with Govt investing in the automotive industry, sensibly. It employs many people both directly and indirectly and contributes to advanced skills in engineering etc. We are one of only 15 countries worldwide with the capability to produce a vehicle right through from design to production, and we are certainly not alone in providing Govt assistance to automotive industry. IIRC, there are only 2 or 3 car manufacturing countries that don't provide assistance to the industry. The industry in the US, UK, Germany, Sth Africa, Sweden, Thailand (and many more) all get major Govt assistance. There's nothing wrong with Australian made cars. On a value basis they are the equal of anything else in their class anywhere in the World. The problem is that they are not made by Australian companies and so they have little to gain by maintaining an Australian manufacturing operation. eg: The Falcon and Territory would be perfect for the US market. But they would decimate the sales of the Crown Vic and Exploder, so Ford does not want to export them there. The key to getting value for the investment dollar is to tie it to exports. Only Toyota currently has a large export program for its vehicles, while Ford (especially) and Holden only have small export programs. The Govt should get serious about the industry and offer them major assistance. But only on the condition that they meet KPIs on exports of the vehicles. All the vehicle manufacturers now are moving towards a worldwide standardised product line. There is no reason why Ford Australia could not be the production source of, say, the mid-size SUV for the World market (ie the Territory). Toyota have done it, Holden/GM have made a half-hearted attempt, Ford have done nothing. The Govt needs to give the manufacturers an ultimatum: Take our money and export or get nothing and go away. RUBBISH !! What about any all Australian business that gets nothing ?? Are they supposed to take it up the arse each time Holden and Ford gets bailed out ? And how do countries like Germany have their OWN car industries which export premium quality cars all over the world whilst not having to continuously subsidize foreign car corporations ?? It's about time the Aussie gov grew a pair of balls and told  these Holden and Ford scammers to f.ckoff. And they can leave all of their equipment behind because we have well and truly paid for that many times over !! It belongs to the Australian tax payer now. When Ford, Holden and Toyota get "bailed out" it helps plenty of Australian companies who supply those three. If Ford, Toyota and Holden go, then so do all their suppliers. The German Government actually give billions to their car industry. In 2009 alone, they provided $1.5 billion Euro to them in assistance. The German manufacturers have also started offshoring their production to other countries. In fact, "German" cars are currently made in the US, South Africa, Mexico, Argentina, India and China. Starting this year, there are very few BMW or VW models being sold in Australia that are made in Germany. Automotive industry assistance, worldwide:

Yes but at the end of the day the profits stay in Germany unlike Australia where the profits are sent back to US head quarters. Where is the investmnet to the Austrealian tax payer ? What shares does the Australian tax payer receive for all of the money it has given these foreign car companies :(

It would be a lot different if the money that was pored into the car industry here was used to support ALL Australian car companies but it is not. As such companies like Ford and Holden keep the good stuff for themselves in the US whilst giving Australia the scraps that nobody wants anymore.

For example the Holden plugin hybnrid Volt is going to be manufactured in the US exclusively but they don't want to let Holden Australia make it nor does Ford which is working on an all electric car, plugin hybrid etc This is a recipe for a failed car industry in Australia where Ford and Holden will only stay as long as the Government keeps bailing them out just so that they can make outdated petrol guzzlers that nobody wants :(

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 8:53pm:

NBNMyths wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 8:32pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 7:51pm: NBNMyths wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 11:13pm: I don't have a problem with Govt investing in the automotive industry, sensibly. It employs many people both directly and indirectly and contributes to advanced skills in engineering etc. We are one of only 15 countries worldwide with the capability to produce a vehicle right through from design to production, and we are certainly not alone in providing Govt assistance to automotive industry. IIRC, there are only 2 or 3 car manufacturing countries that don't provide assistance to the industry. The industry in the US, UK, Germany, Sth Africa, Sweden, Thailand (and many more) all get major Govt assistance. There's nothing wrong with Australian made cars. On a value basis they are the equal of anything else in their class anywhere in the World. The problem is that they are not made by Australian companies and so they have little to gain by maintaining an Australian manufacturing operation. eg: The Falcon and Territory would be perfect for the US market. But they would decimate the sales of the Crown Vic and Exploder, so Ford does not want to export them there. The key to getting value for the investment dollar is to tie it to exports. Only Toyota currently has a large export program for its vehicles, while Ford (especially) and Holden only have small export programs. The Govt should get serious about the industry and offer them major assistance. But only on the condition that they meet KPIs on exports of the vehicles. All the vehicle manufacturers now are moving towards a worldwide standardised product line. There is no reason why Ford Australia could not be the production source of, say, the mid-size SUV for the World market (ie the Territory). Toyota have done it, Holden/GM have made a half-hearted attempt, Ford have done nothing. The Govt needs to give the manufacturers an ultimatum: Take our money and export or get nothing and go away. RUBBISH !! What about any all Australian business that gets nothing ?? Are they supposed to take it up the arse each time Holden and Ford gets bailed out ? And how do countries like Germany have their OWN car industries which export premium quality cars all over the world whilst not having to continuously subsidize foreign car corporations ?? It's about time the Aussie gov grew a pair of balls and told  these Holden and Ford scammers to f.ckoff. And they can leave all of their equipment behind because we have well and truly paid for that many times over !! It belongs to the Australian tax payer now. When Ford, Holden and Toyota get "bailed out" it helps plenty of Australian companies who supply those three. If Ford, Toyota and Holden go, then so do all their suppliers. The German Government actually give billions to their car industry. In 2009 alone, they provided $1.5 billion Euro to them in assistance. The German manufacturers have also started offshoring their production to other countries. In fact, "German" cars are currently made in the US, South Africa, Mexico, Argentina, India and China. Starting this year, there are very few BMW or VW models being sold in Australia that are made in Germany. Automotive industry assistance, worldwide: Yes but at the end of the day the profits stay in Germany unlike Australia where the profits are sent back to US head quarters. Where is the investmnet to the Austrealian tax payer ? What shares does the Australian tax payer receive for all of the money it has given these foreign car companies :( It would be a lot different if the money that was pored into the car industry here was used to support ALL Australian car companies but it is not. As such companies like Ford and Holden keep the good stuff for themselves in the US whilst giving Australia the scraps that nobody wants anymore. For example the Holden plugin hybnrid Volt is going to be manufactured in the US exclusively but they don't want to let Holden Australia make it nor does Ford which is working on an all electric car, plugin hybrid etc This is a recipe for a failed car industry in Australia where Ford and Holden will only stay as long as the Government keeps bailing them out just so that they can make outdated petrol guzzlers that nobody wants :(

I would love nothing more than for there to be an Australian car company. But there isn't one, and there never will be. If Ford, Holden and Toyota close shop, then there will be no Australian car industry at all.

It's not true that Australian cars are ones that "nobody wants". Nor are they all "gas guzzlers" (Witness Falcon ecoboost & ecoLPI, Cruze diesel, Territory diesel, Camry hybrid). While sales of the big cars (Falcon/Commodore) are down, they are still infinitely more popular than an electric or hybrid. Holden also make the small Cruze (which is doing quite well), and Ford have the extremely popular Territory.

I do think there is promise in alternative fuel cars, but they are a long way from being mainstream. In the real world in which we live, it makes absolutely no business sense for GM or Ford to make those niche cars in our country, with its expensive labour and tiny market.

There is plenty of world market for a variety of vehicles. We are good at building large sedans and SUVs in Australia. It's our strength. Hence my call for Govt assistance to be dependent on exports, and by extension the integration of Australia into the world plans of our three local manufacturers.

Shout out if you are sick of the negativity of the "We Can't" anti tariff brigade who undermine our competitive advantage by not charging Australian production costs to our competitors.  All to willing to tax and drive down Australian conditions, security and standards to third world level these people hold back Australia and deliberately sabotage our position and its time to call them what they are - agents for foreign interests and traitors.  I say, yes we can - get out of our way dirt ball and stop undermining Australia. 8-)

Prevailing wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 10:54pm:

Shout out if you are sick of the negativity of the "We Can't" anti tariff brigade who undermine our competitive advantage by not charging Australian production costs to our competitors.  All to willing to tax and drive down Australian conditions, security and standards to third world level these people hold back Australia and deliberately sabotage our position and its time to call them what they are - agents for foreign interests and traitors.  I say, yes we can - get out of our way dirt ball and stop undermining Australia. 8-)

Have you got off your high horse and stopped undermining the Australian web hosting industry yet?

Or are you still hosting your website with the foreign traitors? ;D ;D ;D

NBNMyths wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 11:10pm:

Prevailing wrote on Jul 22nd, 2012 at 10:54pm: Shout out if you are sick of the negativity of the "We Can't" anti tariff brigade who undermine our competitive advantage by not charging Australian production costs to our competitors.  All to willing to tax and drive down Australian conditions, security and standards to third world level these people hold back Australia and deliberately sabotage our position and its time to call them what they are - agents for foreign interests and traitors.  I say, yes we can - get out of our way dirt ball and stop undermining Australia. 8-) Have you got off your high horse and stopped undermining the Australian web hosting industry yet? Or are you still hosting your website with the foreign traitors? ;D ;D ;D

Get lost, not only do you remove tafiffs that meet Australian standards on production costs for import, you argue for a crippling economic sanction or tariff on our own production that you dishonestly call Emissions Trading.   Emissions trading is a con and it wont survive - the High Court will bury it or the coalition will first - and then we are going to make our competitors pay appropriate costs to sell their goods in our Market....Up yours Synarchists...up yours.... :P

NBNMyths wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 10:34pm:

I would love nothing more than for there to be an Australian car company. But there isn't one, and there never will be. If Ford, Holden and Toyota close shop, then there will be no Australian car industry at all. It's not true that Australian cars are ones that "nobody wants". Nor are they all "gas guzzlers" (Witness Falcon ecoboost & ecoLPI, Cruze diesel, Territory diesel, Camry hybrid). While sales of the big cars (Falcon/Commodore) are down, they are still infinitely more popular than an electric or hybrid. Holden also make the small Cruze (which is doing quite well), and Ford have the extremely popular Territory. I do think there is promise in alternative fuel cars, but they are a long way from being mainstream. In the real world in which we live, it makes absolutely no business sense for GM or Ford to make those niche cars in our country, with its expensive labour and tiny market. There is plenty of world market for a variety of vehicles. We are good at building large sedans and SUVs in Australia. It's our strength. Hence my call for Govt assistance to be dependent on exports, and by extension the integration of Australia into the world plans of our three local manufacturers.

So how did Germany do it ??

Certainly not by feeding Holden and Ford with billions of their taxpayer dollars !!

How about this company for a start. Lets pump up their measily 3 million R&D grant to 100 million and reduce Holden's by 100 million. At least this company is working in the right direction and are really building a green car !!

http://www.evengineering.com.au/

Tariffs on imports and subsidy's for our own food and manufacturing industries is the way to go - its an investment in our own jobs & children's future and lets face it the Greens are lunatics :D clearly in the Pay of overseas interests....they think  spending our tax payers money subsidizing jobs in foreign countries is a good idea - do the math - vote Rise Up Australia party - dump the Greens loons :D ;D and keep Australia Australian... :) :)http://riseupaustraliaparty.com/

NBNMyths wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 11:50pm:

Prevailing wrote on Jul 21st, 2012 at 11:29pm: The Australian Government is legally obliged to add tariffs to every car imported to Australia to make sure they meet normal Australian production cost standards to make sure our manufacturing industries are not unfairly under cut.... While you can make a case for some tariff protection, there is also a downside. Tariffs can make manufacturers lazy when it comes to quality and value for money. I'd be happy with tariffs to stay where they are now. Quote: Only the Rise Up Australia Party will ensure this happens and Australian conditions and laws are not circumvented....http://riseupaustraliaparty.com:) Isn't a little bit ironic that the "rise up Australia party", arguing for keeping things Australian, does not even have an Australian domain name (ie .au)?....and, worse, has a website that is hosted in the US by a US-owned company. How can one argue for keeping things Australian when they don't even bother to host their own website here?  ::)

Prolly dont want to pay the extra $125 it costs for an aussie domain name. Notice this forum doesnt have one either.

Aussie hosting companies are ripoff bastards. And ridiculously expensive.

SOB

Ford and holden sadly build peices of junk.  They regularly have suspension or gearbox problems, the VE's are notorious for scrubbing tyres, the clutches in the manuals arent heavy duty enough and they fall to bits.

The FG's have issues with brake rotars warping quickly, boot releases playing up, and too are very plastic inside.

I just went to a Nissan and couldnt be happier, all the extras come standard and I know Ive got a better build quality.

We all know Australia built the finest cars and the ALP deliberately sabotaged them by lowering tariffs so imports could be sold cheaper here.  They know these imports do not meet our production standards but they are happy to circumvent our standards in this way and undermine our own competitive position for personal short term gain.  But these economic rationalists are selling our country and the time has come to stop it and reinstall appropriate tariffs and protections of our national sovereignty , our food security and manufacturing with appropriate tariffs and duties on imports to make sure our own trading position is not unfairly disadvantaged.  The carbon tax and ETS must be scrapped or charged on imports from countries like China and India who are the real mass emissions offenders.  We must stop subsidizing other nations and there peoples jobs over our own which is illegal and unconstitutional.  Only the Rise Up Australia Party has the sensible policies to secure Australia's economic future and Keep Australia Australian owned...
http://riseupaustraliaparty.com :) :)

Verge wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 10:24am:

Ford and holden sadly build peices of junk.  They regularly have suspension or gearbox problems, the VE's are notorious for scrubbing tyres, the clutches in the manuals arent heavy duty enough and they fall to bits. The FG's have issues with brake rotars warping quickly, boot releases playing up, and too are very plastic inside. I just went to a Nissan and couldnt be happier, all the extras come standard and I know Ive got a better build quality.

verge - yes, most people are buying imported cars because they are better.

the customers always right.
ford have presented cars with the same weak points for decades.

And yet we all know that Australians make better cars but the Government deliberately places illegal economic sanctions on them to make them price uncompetitive.  We must urge politicians with a nation wide campaign to reinstate tariffs urgently to force foreign countries to meet our standards of production.  When Australian builds things they are built to last... :)

Prevailing wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 10:57am:

We all know Australia built the finest cars and the ALP deliberately sabotaged them by lowering tariffs so imports could be sold cheaper here.  They know these imports do not meet our production standards but they are happy to circumvent our standards in this way and undermine our own competitive position for personal short term gain.  But these economic rationalists are selling our country and the time has come to stop it and reinstall appropriate tariffs and protections of our national sovereignty , our food security and manufacturing with appropriate tariffs and duties on imports to make sure our own trading position is not unfairly disadvantaged.  The carbon tax and ETS must be scrapped or charged on imports from countries like China and India who are the real mass emissions offenders.  We must stop subsidizing other nations and there peoples jobs over our own which is illegal and unconstitutional.  Only the Rise Up Australia Party has the sensible policies to secure Australia's economic future and Keep Australia Australian owned... http://riseupaustraliaparty.com :) :)

Thats rot.  The Holden and Falcon have survived on emotion alone for over a decade.

Their reliability is pathetic, and their suspension packages "for Australian conditions" couldnt be further from the truth.

The hyundai i30 won car of the year for something like 3 years in a row and it didnt change in that time.

Ford and Holden have treated their customers poorly by overcharging for heaps of rubbish.  If it wasnt for the ford/holden V8SC rivalry they would have died long ago.  Even NASCAR went to smaller vehicles for their main racing game long ago.

Verge wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 11:36am:

Prevailing wrote on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 10:57am: We all know Australia built the finest cars and the ALP deliberately sabotaged them by lowering tariffs so imports could be sold cheaper here.  They know these imports do not meet our production standards but they are happy to circumvent our standards in this way and undermine our own competitive position for personal short term gain.  But these economic rationalists are selling our country and the time has come to stop it and reinstall appropriate tariffs and protections of our national sovereignty , our food security and manufacturing with appropriate tariffs and duties on imports to make sure our own trading position is not unfairly disadvantaged.  The carbon tax and ETS must be scrapped or charged on imports from countries like China and India who are the real mass emissions offenders.  We must stop subsidizing other nations and there peoples jobs over our own which is illegal and unconstitutional.  Only the Rise Up Australia Party has the sensible policies to secure Australia's economic future and Keep Australia Australian owned... http://riseupaustraliaparty.com :) :) Thats rot.  The Holden and Falcon have survived on emotion alone for over a decade. Their reliability is pathetic, and their suspension packages "for Australian conditions" couldnt be further from the truth. The hyundai i30 won car of the year for something like 3 years in a row and it didnt change in that time. Ford and Holden have treated their customers poorly by overcharging for heaps of rubbish.  If it wasnt for the ford/holden V8SC rivalry they would have died long ago.  Even NASCAR went to smaller vehicles for their main racing game long ago.

No thats the truth and you Japanese can go on with your racist self serving negativity all you like but Australias manufacturing was the best, the highest quality, the most environmentally sustainable and built to last not cashed in every couple of years....They don't call it Jap Crap for nothing... 8-) 8-)

Prevailing wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 11:44am:

Verge wrote on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 11:36am: Prevailing wrote on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 10:57am: We all know Australia built the finest cars and the ALP deliberately sabotaged them by lowering tariffs so imports could be sold cheaper here.  They know these imports do not meet our production standards but they are happy to circumvent our standards in this way and undermine our own competitive position for personal short term gain.  But these economic rationalists are selling our country and the time has come to stop it and reinstall appropriate tariffs and protections of our national sovereignty , our food security and manufacturing with appropriate tariffs and duties on imports to make sure our own trading position is not unfairly disadvantaged.  The carbon tax and ETS must be scrapped or charged on imports from countries like China and India who are the real mass emissions offenders.  We must stop subsidizing other nations and there peoples jobs over our own which is illegal and unconstitutional.  Only the Rise Up Australia Party has the sensible policies to secure Australia's economic future and Keep Australia Australian owned... http://riseupaustraliaparty.com :) :) Thats rot.  The Holden and Falcon have survived on emotion alone for over a decade. Their reliability is pathetic, and their suspension packages "for Australian conditions" couldnt be further from the truth. The hyundai i30 won car of the year for something like 3 years in a row and it didnt change in that time. Ford and Holden have treated their customers poorly by overcharging for heaps of rubbish.  If it wasnt for the ford/holden V8SC rivalry they would have died long ago.  Even NASCAR went to smaller vehicles for their main racing game long ago. No thats the truth and you Japanese can go on with your racist self serving negativity all you like but Australias manufacturing was the best, the highest quality, the most environmentally sustainable and built to last not cashed in every couple of years....They don't call it Jap Crap for nothing... 8-) 8-)

It hasnt been "Jap Crap" for a long time, and Ford and Holden were overtaken many years ago.

Have a look at the holden Captiva, made in korea in a daewoo factory!

Hyundai, Nissan, Volkswagon all make substantially better, more reliable and better fitted out vehicles and have for some time.

Prevailing wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 11:08am:

And yet we all know that Australians make better cars but the Government deliberately places illegal economic sanctions on them to make them price uncompetitive.  We must urge politicians with a nation wide campaign to reinstate tariffs urgently to force foreign countries to meet our standards of production.  When Australian builds things they are built to last... :)

what rubbish.

the government got rid of the tarrifs but made up for it by giving them handouts whenever they wanted. In the end they are being subsidized  one way or another.

and everyone knows they make junk that's why they find it difficult to export to the rest of the world.

Prevailing wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 11:44am:

Verge wrote on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 11:36am: Prevailing wrote on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 10:57am: We all know Australia built the finest cars and the ALP deliberately sabotaged them by lowering tariffs so imports could be sold cheaper here.  They know these imports do not meet our production standards but they are happy to circumvent our standards in this way and undermine our own competitive position for personal short term gain.  But these economic rationalists are selling our country and the time has come to stop it and reinstall appropriate tariffs and protections of our national sovereignty , our food security and manufacturing with appropriate tariffs and duties on imports to make sure our own trading position is not unfairly disadvantaged.  The carbon tax and ETS must be scrapped or charged on imports from countries like China and India who are the real mass emissions offenders.  We must stop subsidizing other nations and there peoples jobs over our own which is illegal and unconstitutional.  Only the Rise Up Australia Party has the sensible policies to secure Australia's economic future and Keep Australia Australian owned... http://riseupaustraliaparty.com :) :) Thats rot.  The Holden and Falcon have survived on emotion alone for over a decade. Their reliability is pathetic, and their suspension packages "for Australian conditions" couldnt be further from the truth. The hyundai i30 won car of the year for something like 3 years in a row and it didnt change in that time. Ford and Holden have treated their customers poorly by overcharging for heaps of rubbish.  If it wasnt for the ford/holden V8SC rivalry they would have died long ago.  Even NASCAR went to smaller vehicles for their main racing game long ago. No thats the truth and you Japanese can go on with your racist self serving negativity all you like but Australias manufacturing was the best, the highest quality, the most environmentally sustainable and built to last not cashed in every couple of years....They don't call it Jap Crap for nothing... 8-) 8-)

Highest quality :D LOL That's why when you see a car broken down on the road it's usually a Ford.

People who buy a jap car know they get a reliable car that will go for years. The folks at Holden and Ford  haven't worked out the secret for reliability.

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 11:52am:

Prevailing wrote on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 11:08am: And yet we all know that Australians make better cars but the Government deliberately places illegal economic sanctions on them to make them price uncompetitive.  We must urge politicians with a nation wide campaign to reinstate tariffs urgently to force foreign countries to meet our standards of production.  When Australian builds things they are built to last... :) what rubbish. the government got rid of the tarrifs but made up for it by giving them handouts whenever they wanted. In the end they are being subsidized  one way or another. and everyone knows they make junk that's why they find it difficult to export to the rest of the world.

Arent you sick of these economic rationalist losers - who also coincidentally are behind the ETS and Carbon Tax - they are always talking Australia down and skimming off the top for personal greed and there is no truth in anything they say - its all no no no negativity and lies and Greed.  Aussies are the can do nation - Tariffs and subsidies ensure our high standards are maintained as is our children's future. :) :)

Whats with all the Japanese posters talking Australia down - ... :-?

Prevailing wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 11:59am:

Whats with all the Japanese posters talking Australia down - ... :-?

Tony encouraged it

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qyhZ9_eXCHM/SnE0m-nnpiI/AAAAAAAABk4/Gj7Toy5q7RM/s400/tony+abbott.jpg

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 12:21pm:

Prevailing wrote on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 11:59am: Whats with all the Japanese posters talking Australia down - ... :-? Tony encouraged it http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qyhZ9_eXCHM/SnE0m-nnpiI/AAAAAAAABk4/Gj7Toy5q7RM/s400/tony+abbott.jpg SOB

does anyone realize that this could be the future prime minister of australia :D LOL

Why do the old Lib Lab Greens tripartite parties always talk negative about what Australia cant do and talk up the "Asian Century".  As if our kids have no future.

Vote the rise up Australia party - the can do party - the party that will put Australian manufacturing and engineering back on the map and keep Australia Australian...we wont sell out like they did...http://riseupaustraliaparty.com 8-) 8-)

Prevailing wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 11:44am:

Verge wrote on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 11:36am: Prevailing wrote on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 10:57am: We all know Australia built the finest cars and the ALP deliberately sabotaged them by lowering tariffs so imports could be sold cheaper here.  They know these imports do not meet our production standards but they are happy to circumvent our standards in this way and undermine our own competitive position for personal short term gain.  But these economic rationalists are selling our country and the time has come to stop it and reinstall appropriate tariffs and protections of our national sovereignty , our food security and manufacturing with appropriate tariffs and duties on imports to make sure our own trading position is not unfairly disadvantaged.  The carbon tax and ETS must be scrapped or charged on imports from countries like China and India who are the real mass emissions offenders.  We must stop subsidizing other nations and there peoples jobs over our own which is illegal and unconstitutional.  Only the Rise Up Australia Party has the sensible policies to secure Australia's economic future and Keep Australia Australian owned... http://riseupaustraliaparty.com :) :) Thats rot.  The Holden and Falcon have survived on emotion alone for over a decade. Their reliability is pathetic, and their suspension packages "for Australian conditions" couldnt be further from the truth. The hyundai i30 won car of the year for something like 3 years in a row and it didnt change in that time. Ford and Holden have treated their customers poorly by overcharging for heaps of rubbish.  If it wasnt for the ford/holden V8SC rivalry they would have died long ago.  Even NASCAR went to smaller vehicles for their main racing game long ago. No thats the truth and you Japanese can go on with your racist self serving negativity all you like but Australias manufacturing was the best, the highest quality, the most environmentally sustainable and built to last not cashed in every couple of years....They don't call it Jap Crap for nothing... 8-) 8-)

cars imported from O/S outsell cars made here
Imported cars outrate aust. cars in customer satisfaction.
imports outrate aust cars in retained value.

the facts speak against you

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 1:20pm:

Prevailing wrote on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 11:44am: Verge wrote on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 11:36am: Prevailing wrote on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 10:57am: We all know Australia built the finest cars and the ALP deliberately sabotaged them by lowering tariffs so imports could be sold cheaper here.  They know these imports do not meet our production standards but they are happy to circumvent our standards in this way and undermine our own competitive position for personal short term gain.  But these economic rationalists are selling our country and the time has come to stop it and reinstall appropriate tariffs and protections of our national sovereignty , our food security and manufacturing with appropriate tariffs and duties on imports to make sure our own trading position is not unfairly disadvantaged.  The carbon tax and ETS must be scrapped or charged on imports from countries like China and India who are the real mass emissions offenders.  We must stop subsidizing other nations and there peoples jobs over our own which is illegal and unconstitutional.  Only the Rise Up Australia Party has the sensible policies to secure Australia's economic future and Keep Australia Australian owned... http://riseupaustraliaparty.com :) :) Thats rot.  The Holden and Falcon have survived on emotion alone for over a decade. Their reliability is pathetic, and their suspension packages "for Australian conditions" couldnt be further from the truth. The hyundai i30 won car of the year for something like 3 years in a row and it didnt change in that time. Ford and Holden have treated their customers poorly by overcharging for heaps of rubbish.  If it wasnt for the ford/holden V8SC rivalry they would have died long ago.  Even NASCAR went to smaller vehicles for their main racing game long ago. No thats the truth and you Japanese can go on with your racist self serving negativity all you like but Australias manufacturing was the best, the highest quality, the most environmentally sustainable and built to last not cashed in every couple of years....They don't call it Jap Crap for nothing... 8-) 8-) cars imported from O/S outsell cars made here Imported cars outrate aust. cars in customer satisfaction. imports outrate aust cars in retained value. the facts speak against you

The Rise Up Australia Party will fix the competitive problem by moving aside the cant do and negative element, and encouraging expansion of manufacturing by placing tariffs and duties on imports to make sure they meet our standards and encouraging productive manufacturing and agriculture with subsidy's...The facts are on our side, the global financial crisis is on your account... :) :)

Prevailing wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 1:19pm:

Why do the old Lib Lab Greens tripartite parties always talk negative about what Australia cant do and talk up the "Asian Century".  As if our kids have no future. Vote the rise up Australia party - the can do party - the party that will put Australian manufacturing and engineering back on the map and keep Australia Australian...we wont sell out like they did...http://riseupaustraliaparty.com 8-) 8-)

because it's true !! Thanks to those brain dead maggots in Canberra our children have no future other than to pull rickshaws for the rich chinese tourists and polishing rockets in massage parlours :(

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 4:06pm:

Prevailing wrote on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 1:19pm: Why do the old Lib Lab Greens tripartite parties always talk negative about what Australia cant do and talk up the "Asian Century".  As if our kids have no future. Vote the rise up Australia party - the can do party - the party that will put Australian manufacturing and engineering back on the map and keep Australia Australian...we wont sell out like they did...http://riseupaustraliaparty.com 8-) 8-) because it's true !! Thanks to those brain dead maggots in Canberra our children have no future other than to pull rickshaws for the rich chinese tourists and polishing rockets in massage parlours :(

Thanks to globalism, free trade, open borders, privatization, economic rationalism, Carbon Tax, Emissions Trading and other acts of genius by the we cant brigade.. 8-) 8-) 8-)

Verge wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 11:36am:

Prevailing wrote on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 10:57am: We all know Australia built the finest cars and the ALP deliberately sabotaged them by lowering tariffs so imports could be sold cheaper here.  They know these imports do not meet our production standards but they are happy to circumvent our standards in this way and undermine our own competitive position for personal short term gain.  But these economic rationalists are selling our country and the time has come to stop it and reinstall appropriate tariffs and protections of our national sovereignty , our food security and manufacturing with appropriate tariffs and duties on imports to make sure our own trading position is not unfairly disadvantaged.  The carbon tax and ETS must be scrapped or charged on imports from countries like China and India who are the real mass emissions offenders.  We must stop subsidizing other nations and there peoples jobs over our own which is illegal and unconstitutional.  Only the Rise Up Australia Party has the sensible policies to secure Australia's economic future and Keep Australia Australian owned... http://riseupaustraliaparty.com :) :) Thats rot.  The Holden and Falcon have survived on emotion alone for over a decade. Their reliability is pathetic, and their suspension packages "for Australian conditions" couldnt be further from the truth. The hyundai i30 won car of the year for something like 3 years in a row and it didnt change in that time. Ford and Holden have treated their customers poorly by overcharging for heaps of rubbish.  If it wasnt for the ford/holden V8SC rivalry they would have died long ago.  Even NASCAR went to smaller vehicles for their main racing game long ago.

All cars have problems.

I currently own 2 Australian Fords (A Territory and a GT Falcon), and a Japanese Toyota Landcruiser. Before that I've owned 2 Nissan Patrols and a Suzuki (all Japanese).

The only fault I've had with the Fords is the GT had a gearbox oil leak fixed under warranty (ironically, a German-made ZF gearbox...). The Cruiser has had several oil leaks (Engine, transfer case), cracked bits of metal, 2 front diff failures, leaks dust like a sieve, seat material tore, rear speakers stopped working..... Between the Patrols I had to rebuild an engine due to burning oil, several electrical faults, 3 recalls, terrible and unfixable squeaks and rattles. The Suzuki's clutch failed after less than 50,000km.

My uncle had a Merc/AMG E55 which developed a computer fault. It took months and numerous return visits to the dealer to rectify.

The bottom line is that all vehicles, no matter their origin, have build and engineering faults. The Japanese cars are probably the best put together, but they have their share of major engineering faults (eg: Witness Toyota's recent long list of global recalls). The German cars are probably the best engineered, but they often have abysmal build quality (They often rank very low in customer satisfaction). And both Japan and Germany have started offshoring their builds to cheap labour countries anyway.

I'm not under any illusion that Australian cars are the best in the World. But they certainly aren't the worst and on a value basis are right up there. Of course a Falcon G6 isn't as good as a BMW 330i. But it's half the price so what would you expect?

Prevailing wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 1:25pm:

The Rise Up Australia Party will fix the competitive problem by moving aside the cant do and negative element, and encouraging expansion of manufacturing by placing tariffs and duties on imports to make sure they meet our standards and encouraging productive manufacturing and agriculture with subsidy's...The facts are on our side, the global financial crisis is on your account... :) :)

You do know that there are still tariffs on imported cars, right?

NBNMyths wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 6:48pm:

Prevailing wrote on Jul 23rd, 2012 at 1:25pm: The Rise Up Australia Party will fix the competitive problem by moving aside the cant do and negative element, and encouraging expansion of manufacturing by placing tariffs and duties on imports to make sure they meet our standards and encouraging productive manufacturing and agriculture with subsidy's...The facts are on our side, the global financial crisis is on your account... :) :) You do know that there are still tariffs on imported cars, right?

Not Even Close To A Sensible Tariff Plan..

The reason why we are where we are today...

The Button Fail... :D :D ;D ;D


Quote:

Button car plan The Button car plan, also known as the Button plan was the informal name given to the Motor Industry Development Plan. The plan was an Australian federal government initiative, intended to rationalise the Australian motor vehicle industry. Industry consultation had begun in 1984 with a proposed start date of 1985. The plan took its name from Senator John Button, the federal Minister for Commerce, Trade and Industry. At the time of its inception, Australia's motor industry was heavily protected by import tariffs, harbouring the assembly of thirteen models by various manufacturers. The Button car plan aimed to reduce this number to eight models, with the aim of forcing some amount of industry consolidation. The over-arching aim of the scheme was to make the motor vehicle industry in Australia more efficient by consolidation of resources, allowing the import tariffs to be gradually unwound. This in turn would theoretically expose the local industry to increased competition from imported products, fostering improvement in local vehicles and creating the basis for a competitive export industry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Button_car_plan

The old Lib Lab Greens Parties have had their chances with economic rationalism, Free Trade ect and they have failed on economics...again and their ETS fails the planet...its a subsidy on failure.

Only The Rise Up Australia Party has the blue print for an economically and sustainable outcome for Australia and our future....We have answers...they FAIL...
http://riseupaustraliaparty.com/ 8-) 8-)