Larger states want bigger GST slice

Date
    July 26, 2012


PREMIERS of rich and poor states have clashed sharply at the Council of Australian Governments meeting, as the bigger states flagged a co-ordinated campaign to slash the $4.25 billion a year subsidy taken from them for the smaller states and territories.

Northern Territory Chief Minister Paul Henderson accused Western Australian Premier Colin Barnett of ''an unprincipled attack on the smaller states'' by proposing that 60 per cent of future GST money be allocated on a per capita basis.    :-?

GST revenue is collected by the Commonwealth on behalf of the states, but allocated entirely on a needs basis, as assessed by the Commonwealth Grants Commission. Those assessments differ so much that this year the Northern Territory will receive almost as much GST money as WA, which has 10 times more people.

The premiers of the four donor states - WA, Victoria, New South Wales and Queensland - met to consider a common position to demand that only part of the GST be allocated on a needs basis, and part as per capita entitlements.
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Mr Barnett's plan for a 40/60 split, if implemented this year, would save WA $1.4 billion, Victoria almost $600 million, NSW $450 million and Queensland $86 million. But it would be a zero-sum game, with the small states losing just as much. The Northern Territory would lose $1.4 billion, close to a third of its revenue. South Australia would lose $637.5 million, Tasmania $400 million and the Australian Capital Territory $90 million.

Mr Barnett said the four largest states are close to a common position, advocating that most of the GST poll be allocated on a per capita basis, and the rest according to needs.

''The system is broken,'' he said. ''It isn't serving the Australian economy well, and tinkering with it will not solve the problem.''    :-?

But Mr Henderson and South Australian Premier Jay Weatherill hit back. Mr Henderson called the proposal ''an unprincipled grab for cash [that] goes against all the fundamentals that this Commonwealth is meant to be about''.

Mr Weatherill said such a shift in funding would have ''dramatic effects on the smaller states'' and break the principle that ''where ever you are based … as a citizen, you receive the same level of services''.

Prime Minister Julia Gillard sided with her Labor colleagues. ''We do have an expectation about what it means to be an Australian citizen,'' she said. Australians would not agree if ''impoverished places were not getting assistance because [their] part of the nation didn't have revenue-raising capacity''.    ;)

Her government has set up an inquiry into the GST distribution, expected to submit its final report by September.    :)


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/larger-states-want-bigger-gst-slice-20120725-22qvt.html#ixzz21fMsJFd8

The States that have the most money and the ability to raise more revenue want more of the pie while the poorer States are starving of funds.....It is not surprising the States run by Coalition Governments overlook the need and pander to greed!!!

>:( >:( >:(

philperth2010 wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 7:45am:

The States that have the most money and the ability to raise more revenue want more of the pie while the poorer States are starving of funds.....It is not surprising the States run by Coalition Governments overlook the need and pander to greed!!! >:( >:( >:(

The states that generate the most in GST should receive a larger slice of the pie. It's only fair, otherwise those states are effectively subsidising the others.

Weatherill 'bitching' about GST: Barnett

Date
    July 25, 2012

 

West Australian Premier Colin Barnett has dismissed his South Australian counterpart's criticism of the mining state's push for GST reform as "bitching".    :-?

South Australian Premier Jay Weatherill on Wednesday described WA's bid to have the bulk of GST revenue distributed on a per capita basis as "deeply selfish", saying it did not want to share the benefits of the mining boom.    >:(

"Western Australia has a very short memory. It was only a few short years ago that they stopped being a receiver of money and are now a net contributor back to the rest of the nation," Mr Weatherill told reporters in Canberra.

"Not only is it deeply selfish, it's completely contrary to principle, it's contrary to the way in which this nation was formed."    :(


Mr Barnett said he was disappointed by Mr Weatherill's comments.

"That has been the problem of commonwealth-state relations, one state sort of bitching about the other state," the Liberal leader told ABC Radio.

"That's not the way forward in a modern federation.

"It's about time we raised this level of debate rather than one state grizzling about another or grizzling to the Commonwealth."

Mr Barnett conceded WA had been financially propped up by the other states for decades before the boom "but you never have the degree of differences between states that you've got now".    :(

"And Western Australia has more than repaid anything it received in the past."

He wants a 75 per cent floor on GST distributions and was pushing his case at a Council of Australian Governments meeting in Canberra on Wednesday.

WA received 72 cents in the dollar in 2011/12, will get 55 cents for each dollar this financial year and is expected to get even less in coming years.

Mr Barnett said Victoria, NSW and Queensland were "pretty close" to broadly agreeing with WA in calling for the majority of GST funds to be distributed according to a state or territory's population.

"That's what I hope can be achieved out of these two days," he said.

"And I think if the big four states agree, then that's a powerful argument for going that way because those states represent 90 per cent of the Australian economy and 90 per cent of Australia's population."

Any change would be phased in slowly over a period of time so no state or territory was disadvantaged during the transition, he said.

"Obviously Northern Territory, South Australia, Tasmania would be looked after."    :-?

WA Opposition Leader Mark McGowan suggested a higher floor of 80 cents in the dollar.

Mr McGowan called for bipartisanship on the issue, but also pitched to electors that they would get a better GST deal if they elected a Labor government in state elections in March.

"A simple, certain, bipartisan approach is what's required ... that's the most reasonable way forward," he told reporters in Perth.

Mr Barnett was part of the Richard Court-led state government in 1999 when it signed the original GST deal with the Commonwealth, he said.

"There was no floor put in, so our rate could go down to zero," Mr McGowan said.

Read more: http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/weatherill-bitching-about-gst-barnett-20120725-22qok.html#ixzz21foe7iIt

South Australian Premier Jay Weatherill on Wednesday described WA's bid to have the bulk of GST revenue distributed on a per capita basis as "deeply selfish", saying it did not want to share the benefits of the mining boom.   I thought the minerals in the ground belonged to all Australians.    :(

wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 7:55am:

South Australian Premier Jay Weatherill on Wednesday described WA's bid to have the bulk of GST revenue distributed on a per capita basis as "deeply selfish", saying it did not want to share the benefits of the mining boom.   I thought the minerals in the ground belonged to all Australians.    :(

I think it should be a mixture of per capita and sq klm of the state, with a complexity factor of urbanised/industrialised sq klm compared to bare unproductive sq klm.

I think per capita is pushing the envelope..the idea behind GST is it sustains us ALL..as we are the bloody mugs paying it..

on top of paying every other kind of TAX they can dream up for us..

even Levies.

and what good does it do us.. we are in debt up to our eyeballs..

doesnt matter what they get they still cant manage it..

its a disaster nothing in this country works.. simple as that..we have got to be on a par with Greece when it comes to lousy management..

I think it time they talk to the likes of Gina.

.worlds richest woman how does she do it????


the Feds are in debt and every State is in debt...

and guess who has the honor of paying it back.. we already know Qld is paying $5billion per annum in interest... what the heck are the rest paying.. and it comes out of our pockets.

wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 7:55am:

South Australian Premier Jay Weatherill on Wednesday described WA's bid to have the bulk of GST revenue distributed on a per capita basis as "deeply selfish", saying it did not want to share the benefits of the mining boom.   I thought the minerals in the ground belonged to all Australians.    :(

They don't and they never have.

The minerals in the ground belong to the people of the state that owns them.


Maybe the basket case states (labor) should attempt to look after themselves rather demand more and more handouts for the 'working' states.

The minerals in the ground belong to the people of the state that owns them.    I somehow don't think that the federal government, quite sees it that way.    ;)

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 8:03am:

wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 7:55am: South Australian Premier Jay Weatherill on Wednesday described WA's bid to have the bulk of GST revenue distributed on a per capita basis as "deeply selfish", saying it did not want to share the benefits of the mining boom.   I thought the minerals in the ground belonged to all Australians.    :( They don't and they never have. The minerals in the ground belong to the people of the state that owns them. Maybe the basket case states (labor) should attempt to look after themselves rather demand more and more handouts for the 'working' states.

I dont agree.. they belong to us all..otherwise we will have a country of poor on one side wealthy on the other...

dont agree at all.

its by chance where these wonders from the earth are..and each one will either run out or go past its use by date aka coal..

then what the rich will suddenly be poor..come on!!!

wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 8:10am:

The minerals in the ground belong to the people of the state that owns them.    I somehow don't think that the federal government, quite sees it that way.    ;)

neither do I what about you?

cods wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 8:16am:

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 8:03am: wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 7:55am: South Australian Premier Jay Weatherill on Wednesday described WA's bid to have the bulk of GST revenue distributed on a per capita basis as "deeply selfish", saying it did not want to share the benefits of the mining boom.   I thought the minerals in the ground belonged to all Australians.    :( They don't and they never have. The minerals in the ground belong to the people of the state that owns them. Maybe the basket case states (labor) should attempt to look after themselves rather demand more and more handouts for the 'working' states. I dont agree.. they belong to us all..otherwise we will have a country of poor on one side wealthy on the other... dont agree at all. its by chance where these wonders from the earth are..and each one will either run out or go past its use by date aka coal.. then what the rich will suddenly be poor..come on!!!

Whether you agree or not is irrelevant, it's the law.

wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 8:10am:

The minerals in the ground belong to the people of the state that owns them.    I somehow don't think that the federal government, quite sees it that way.    ;)

yeah, as of today the states still own their minerals, so the federal government can't be too sure about themselves owning our minerals.

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 8:03am:

wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 7:55am: South Australian Premier Jay Weatherill on Wednesday described WA's bid to have the bulk of GST revenue distributed on a per capita basis as "deeply selfish", saying it did not want to share the benefits of the mining boom.   I thought the minerals in the ground belonged to all Australians.    :( They don't and they never have. The minerals in the ground belong to the people of the state that owns them. Maybe the basket case states (labor) should attempt to look after themselves rather demand more and more handouts for the 'working' states.

Then when the mining boom is over and WA is once again reliant on the rest of Australia for support the other States will just have to accept it.....WA can raise its revenue (and has by putting a higher price on iron ore fines) and also reaps the benefits of much higher royalties due to the boom.....WA is rolling in cash and Barnett wants more to pork barrel and buy votes at the expense of the rest of Australia.....Mr Barnett is a typical greedy Conservative who sees only their own need to retain power over the needs of the majority!!!

>:( >:( >:(

neither do I what about you?
I think that all Australians should benefit from the mining boom.  So if your asking me if I support the mining tax.  Yes I do.   ;)

Tony Abbott will return royalties to the big miners and then the mining States will raise royalties accordingly.....So when the Commonwealth raises royalties it will destroy investment however when Conservative States Governments raise royalties it is not questioned by the Opposition leader.....Either the boom supports all Australia or it is not a boom it is a bubble!!!

>:( >:( >:(

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 7:48am:

philperth2010 wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 7:45am: The States that have the most money and the ability to raise more revenue want more of the pie while the poorer States are starving of funds.....It is not surprising the States run by Coalition Governments overlook the need and pander to greed!!! The states that generate the most in GST should receive a larger slice of the pie. It's only fair, otherwise those states are effectively subsidising the others.

Yes that is the idea.

I think the question is really about the level of compensation, is it too generous or not generous enough, not long ago WA was one of the states demanding more from the opposite side of the fence when they were being very heavily subsidised.

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 8:17am:

cods wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 8:16am: BigOl64 wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 8:03am: wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 7:55am: South Australian Premier Jay Weatherill on Wednesday described WA's bid to have the bulk of GST revenue distributed on a per capita basis as "deeply selfish", saying it did not want to share the benefits of the mining boom.   I thought the minerals in the ground belonged to all Australians.    :( They don't and they never have. The minerals in the ground belong to the people of the state that owns them. Maybe the basket case states (labor) should attempt to look after themselves rather demand more and more handouts for the 'working' states. I dont agree.. they belong to us all..otherwise we will have a country of poor on one side wealthy on the other... dont agree at all. its by chance where these wonders from the earth are..and each one will either run out or go past its use by date aka coal.. then what the rich will suddenly be poor..come on!!! Whether you agree or not is irrelevant, it's the law.

you said its the way you think it should be... as far as I know if they found gold on my property the feds would be here..


and who makes the LAW anyway?

it wasnt written in stone on top of a mountain as far as I know.

Dnarever wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 9:32am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 7:48am: philperth2010 wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 7:45am: The States that have the most money and the ability to raise more revenue want more of the pie while the poorer States are starving of funds.....It is not surprising the States run by Coalition Governments overlook the need and pander to greed!!! The states that generate the most in GST should receive a larger slice of the pie. It's only fair, otherwise those states are effectively subsidising the others. Yes that is the idea. I think the question is really about the level of compensation, is it too generous or not generous enough, not long ago WA was one of the states demanding more from the opposite side of the fence when they were being very heavily subsidised.

it was all about balance.. well like we all know in life things never remain the same do they??..

it really gets me when I read about the Yanks and their passions for guns they always bring in the constitution..something that was written so many years ago it may well have been for a different planet..

its a different world today even in 10 years things change

even laws need to move with the times.

philperth2010 wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 8:33am:

Tony Abbott will return royalties to the big miners and then the mining States will raise royalties accordingly.....So when the Commonwealth raises royalties it will destroy investment however when Conservative States Governments raise royalties it is not questioned by the Opposition leader.....Either the boom supports all Australia or it is not a boom it is a bubble!!! >:( >:( >:(

go away phil... you are talking with what you hope will happen so you can say I TOLD YOU SO..

no one knows what Abbott will do anymore than anyone knew what gillard would do in 2010.

did you know she would stab rudd in the back??

did you know she would backflip on a major labor promise????

cods wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 9:56am:

philperth2010 wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 8:33am: Tony Abbott will return royalties to the big miners and then the mining States will raise royalties accordingly.....So when the Commonwealth raises royalties it will destroy investment however when Conservative States Governments raise royalties it is not questioned by the Opposition leader.....Either the boom supports all Australia or it is not a boom it is a bubble!!! >:( >:( >:( go away phil... you are talking with what you hope will happen so you can say I TOLD YOU SO.. no one knows what Abbott will do anymore than anyone knew what gillard would do in 2010. did you know she would stab rudd in the back?? did you know she would backflip on a major labor promise????

Actually it is written a little differently but it is saying what Tnoy said he will do if you choose to believe him.

I personally do not see how he could possibly afford it.

cods wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 9:51am:

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 8:17am: Whether you agree or not is irrelevant, it's the law. you said its the way you think it should be... as far as I know if they found gold on my property the feds would be here.. and who makes the LAW anyway? it wasnt written in stone on top of a mountain as far as I know.

1. If they (miners) found gold on your property they would go to the state government to get the mining rights to it, the feds would not be consulted in any way.

2. Both the feds and the states make law, and mining law is a state law.

3. The law allowing the states to make law is governed by the constitution, so yeah it is pretty much written in stone.

You and labor may not like the states having the right to make laws, but stiff we can and we do

Quote:

RESOURCE-RICH Queensland has dismissed Julia Gillard's claim to stewardship of the nation's mineral resources, reasserting its right to all revenue - state and commonwealth - raised from mining within its borders. The West Australian government has also re-emphasised its control of minerals, with the two governments provoked by the Prime Minister's claim on Wednesday that mineral resources were owned by governments, not businesses. Queensland Premier Campbell Newman, backed by the Minerals Council of Australia, moved quickly yesterday to remind Ms Gillard that the Constitution made it clear the states controlled mineral resources, accusing her of seeking to imply the commonwealth had a stake - a  position he said was "misleading and untrue". As Mr Newman insisted every dollar raised in his state by Ms Gillard's new minerals resource rent tax must be spent in Queensland, the opposition warned the Prime Minister's attempt to "look tough" before mining executives could backfire legally because the Constitution prohibited commonwealth taxation of state property.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/state-politics/states-reassert-control-of-minerals/story-e6frgczx-1226377897932

The LNP have already bankrupted Queensland so why waste more federal money on them

adelcrow wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 4:59pm:

The LNP have already bankrupted Queensland so why waste more federal money on them

That was labor ya fool. Stick to your own state if your too stupid to do some basic research

All resources belong to the Crown... :)

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 5:20pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 4:59pm: The LNP have already bankrupted Queensland so why waste more federal money on them That was labor ya fool. Stick to your own state if your too stupid to do some basic research

There was no mention of Queensland being bankrupt until Newman took over..he broke it he should fix it.

adelcrow wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 5:30pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 5:20pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 4:59pm: The LNP have already bankrupted Queensland so why waste more federal money on them That was labor ya fool. Stick to your own state if your too stupid to do some basic research There was no mention of Queensland being bankrupt until Newman took over..he broke it he should fix it.

WTF!

In what world do you think that the then bligh government would be willing to mention to the people of QLD that she bankrupted the state. It wasn't until the new government came to power that the true extent of labor mismanagement was uncovered.

If you are not going to do even a modicum of research before posting a comment, you might want to get used to being humiliated when your stupidity is pointed out.

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 5:34pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 5:30pm: BigOl64 wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 5:20pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 4:59pm: The LNP have already bankrupted Queensland so why waste more federal money on them That was labor ya fool. Stick to your own state if your too stupid to do some basic research There was no mention of Queensland being bankrupt until Newman took over..he broke it he should fix it. WTF! In what world do you think that the then bligh government would be willing to mention to the people of QLD that she bankrupted the state. It wasn't until the new government came to power that the true extent of labor mismanagement was uncovered. If you are not going to do even a modicum of research before posting a comment, you might want to get used to being humiliated when your stupidity is pointed out.

Its is strange that every new govt no matter if they are Conservative or Labor always claim the state is in the sh!tter because of the previous govt when they grab power....and some idiots fall for it everytime  :D

wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 8:28am:

neither do I what about you? I think that all Australians should benefit from the mining boom.  So if your asking me if I support the mining tax.  Yes I do.   ;)

the mining TAX is one thing the CARBON TAX is another.. crook.

no I was asking if you thought where ever the ore is.. belongs to the State alone.which is what AP is saying.

adelcrow wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 5:36pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 5:34pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 5:30pm: BigOl64 wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 5:20pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 4:59pm: The LNP have already bankrupted Queensland so why waste more federal money on them That was labor ya fool. Stick to your own state if your too stupid to do some basic research There was no mention of Queensland being bankrupt until Newman took over..he broke it he should fix it. WTF! In what world do you think that the then bligh government would be willing to mention to the people of QLD that she bankrupted the state. It wasn't until the new government came to power that the true extent of labor mismanagement was uncovered. If you are not going to do even a modicum of research before posting a comment, you might want to get used to being humiliated when your stupidity is pointed out. Its is strange that every new govt no matter if they are Conservative or Labor always claim the state is in the sh!tter because of the previous govt when they grab power....and some idiots fall for it everytime  :D

so what you are saying adel.. is no govt should be held accountable!!!!

at least thats the way I read that

no one GRABS POWER stop sounding hysterical.

they are voted in for better or worse..

in my opinion whoever comes in can only take over the reins as they were the day before.. as the bureaucracy doesnt change does it?

in some case like this govt it just gets heavier.

When we get into power we will introduce the reforms to remove the flat GST on goods and services which is crippling the domestic economy...Vote Rise Up Australia for change  we need... :) :)

Ol64 fails to remember that every new govt claims to have inherited a state in dire straights.
Newman is simply repeating a tired old line thats been used since the beginning of politics

adelcrow wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 5:54pm:

Ol64 fails to remember that every new govt claims to have inherited a state in dire straights. Newman is simply repeating a tired old line thats been used since the beginning of politics

But Del - that State's finances were audited by the very independent Peter Costello!   Shunned by Howard and licking crumbs wherever he can.

oops..dire straits  ::)

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 5:34pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 5:30pm: BigOl64 wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 5:20pm: adelcrow wrote on Jul 26th, 2012 at 4:59pm: The LNP have already bankrupted Queensland so why waste more federal money on them That was labor ya fool. Stick to your own state if your too stupid to do some basic research There was no mention of Queensland being bankrupt until Newman took over..he broke it he should fix it. WTF! In what world do you think that the then bligh government would be willing to mention to the people of QLD that she bankrupted the state. It wasn't until the new government came to power that the true extent of labor mismanagement was uncovered. If you are not going to do even a modicum of research before posting a comment, you might want to get used to being humiliated when your stupidity is pointed out.

yeah ... thats why, with the shortage of money he faces, one of the first things he announces is new govt. building to be built on a flood zones ... he'll be fine, his office will be on the top floor ...