It seems that the idea of women and children first is a bit of a myth.  They usually have to wait until all the men are safe......


Quote:

The notion that women and children are rescued first during a shipwreck is a myth, scientists say, after analysing 18 maritime disasters that show men generally save themselves. The sinking of the Titanic - in which 70 per cent of the women and children on board were saved compared to 20 per cent of the men - is a rare exception to the rule, said the study by Swedish researchers in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Instead, captain and crew tend to look out for their own safety first, men on board typically have twice the survival rate of women, and children fare the worst. The data on maritime disasters from 1852 to 2011 included 15,000 passengers and crew members of more than 30 different nationalities.  The analysis did not include the Italian cruise ship, Costa Concordia, whose captain came under fire earlier this year for leaving the deadly scene of shipwreck before all 4200-plus passengers were evacuated. Thirty-two people died.  But the study showed that his behaviour may not have been all that unusual. Historical data shows that crew members 'have a higher survival rate than passengers and that only nine of 16 captains went down with their ships', said the study. In disasters when the captain took the lead in alerting passengers and crew to prioritise the needs of women and children, they tended to fare better.  Otherwise, 'self-regarding players comply with norms only if the cost of the social stigma of violation exceeds the cost of compliance', said the study. In the case of the Titanic, the captain ordered women and children to be saved first and there were reports of officers shooting at any men who disobeyed the order.  Women had a survival advantage over men in just two of the shipwrecks studied, the Titanic in 1912 and the Birkenhead, a British ship that went aground in the Indian Ocean in 1852. Markedly fewer women than men survived in 11 disasters, and there was no clear evidence of a difference in the remaining five studied. When researchers focused on British shipwrecks in particular, they found that women consistently fared worse than men, even though the order to save women and children first was given more often on British ships.  'This contrasts with the notion of British men being more gallant than men of other nationalities,' said the study authored by Mikael Elindera and Oscar Erixson of the Department of Economics, Uppsala University, Sweden. They also noted that similar conclusions have been reached in other studies of human behaviour during natural disasters. 'What happened on the Titanic seems to have spurred misconceptions about human behaviour in disasters,' the researchers concluded.

clicky

Did they take into account that any person on the titanic who entered the water would have died, compared to mens survival rates in open sea, in the water (warmer waters), would be greater than women by strength and endurance.

Actually on the Titanic you were much more likely to survive according to the class you were as a passenger. Most of the first class passengers made it onto lifeboats, fewer second class and the bulk of the dead were the 3rd class. There is some dispute as to whether or not they were locked below decks. Actually 100% of the first class women made it onto the lifeboats. Interestingly 6 of the 8 chinese on board survived.
Full breakdown - http://www.ithaca.edu/staff/jhenderson/titanic.html#pass

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 31^st, 2012 at 8:28am:

Did they take into account that any person on the titanic who entered the water would have died, compared to mens survival rates in open sea, in the water (warmer waters), would be greater than women by strength and endurance.

Nar, it'd be the other way around.  Women have several adaptations, including an extra layer of body fat (useful for withstanding cold water) that make them more "hardy" - a necessity due to them carrying the children.  In cold water like the titanic, hypothermia would ahve set in after a few minutes - long before endurance becomes a factor.

... wrote on Jul 31^st, 2012 at 10:33am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jul 31st, 2012 at 8:28am: Did they take into account that any person on the titanic who entered the water would have died, compared to mens survival rates in open sea, in the water (warmer waters), would be greater than women by strength and endurance. Nar, it'd be the other way around.  Women have several adaptations, including an extra layer of body fat (useful for withstanding cold water) that make them more "hardy" - a necessity due to them carrying the children.  In cold water like the titanic, hypothermia would ahve set in after a few minutes - long before endurance becomes a factor.

I said everyone would have died in the water, but in turn, warmer waters would be different.

Frances wrote on Jul 31^st, 2012 at 8:21am:

It seems that the idea of women and children first is a bit of a myth.  They usually have to wait until all the men are safe...... Quote: The notion that women and children are rescued first during a shipwreck is a myth, scientists say, after analysing 18 maritime disasters that show men generally save themselves. The sinking of the Titanic - in which 70 per cent of the women and children on board were saved compared to 20 per cent of the men - is a rare exception to the rule, said the study by Swedish researchers in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Instead, captain and crew tend to look out for their own safety first, men on board typically have twice the survival rate of women, and children fare the worst. The data on maritime disasters from 1852 to 2011 included 15,000 passengers and crew members of more than 30 different nationalities.  The analysis did not include the Italian cruise ship, Costa Concordia, whose captain came under fire earlier this year for leaving the deadly scene of shipwreck before all 4200-plus passengers were evacuated. Thirty-two people died.  But the study showed that his behaviour may not have been all that unusual. Historical data shows that crew members 'have a higher survival rate than passengers and that only nine of 16 captains went down with their ships', said the study. In disasters when the captain took the lead in alerting passengers and crew to prioritise the needs of women and children, they tended to fare better.  Otherwise, 'self-regarding players comply with norms only if the cost of the social stigma of violation exceeds the cost of compliance', said the study. In the case of the Titanic, the captain ordered women and children to be saved first and there were reports of officers shooting at any men who disobeyed the order.  Women had a survival advantage over men in just two of the shipwrecks studied, the Titanic in 1912 and the Birkenhead, a British ship that went aground in the Indian Ocean in 1852. Markedly fewer women than men survived in 11 disasters, and there was no clear evidence of a difference in the remaining five studied. When researchers focused on British shipwrecks in particular, they found that women consistently fared worse than men, even though the order to save women and children first was given more often on British ships.  'This contrasts with the notion of British men being more gallant than men of other nationalities,' said the study authored by Mikael Elindera and Oscar Erixson of the Department of Economics, Uppsala University, Sweden. They also noted that similar conclusions have been reached in other studies of human behaviour during natural disasters. 'What happened on the Titanic seems to have spurred misconceptions about human behaviour in disasters,' the researchers concluded. clicky

I'd like to see more evidence of their research methodology.
Coming from a Sweden university is a bit suspect.

I too am a bit skeptical.  However in the absence of anyone pushing me, I can't be bothered to look through the study and see how they've come up with their conclusion.  be my guest though:

http://www.ifn.se/eng/publications/wp/2012/913

There are always going to be problems with these sorts of studies looking at purely statistical data. What were the ratios of swimmers for both sexes? Just a guess but it probably would have been higher for the men. The clothes of past eras would also seem to favour survival by men if you get thrown into the water...just saying is all.

It doesn't really matter anyway. Men are more likely to save themselves in today's generation anyway, especially after the feminist revolution. A woman will probably tell you she doesn't need help. Men would simply be too embarrassed to ask for fear they might be seen as condescending. We're not supposed to open doors for women anymore, so who wants to be rescued?

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 1^st, 2012 at 12:31am:

It doesn't really matter anyway. Men are more likely to save themselves in today's generation anyway, especially after the feminist revolution. A woman will probably tell you she doesn't need help. Men would simply be too embarrassed to ask for fear they might be seen as condescending. We're not supposed to open doors for women anymore, so who wants to be rescued?

Well yu are right, I would only save my loved ones and myself. If I could save someone without me perishing, then I would, but I would vette the feminists and allow them to show me how it is done.

Well i dont see any reason women should be first anyway but children should be. Maybe nursing mothers.

SOB

Most shipwrecks don't have a nice orderly evacuation like the titanic. If the sip sinks in 30 seconds, it is swim or die, and you have to save yourself before you can save anyone else.

BTW, I'm pretty sure there were lots of partly full lifeboats leaving the titanic. Whatever they did cost lives.