Bitter battle over Sunday pay


    SAMANTHA MAIDEN and BRITTANY STACK
    The Sunday Telegraph
    August 12, 2012


BOSSES pushing to scrap penalty rates on Sundays claim double time is a 1950s concept that is killing jobs.    :-?

The threat to penalty rates has prompted unions to launch a new national campaign today - Save Our Aussie Weekends.

But employers warn the current regime of paying casual waiters up to $40 an hour on Sundays is forcing companies to the wall.

"We say that's archaic," National Retail Association's Gary Black said. "Penalty rates were implemented in the 1950s in the context of a Monday-to-Friday manufacturing model."

Employers want a review of the current award to consider options such as a flat rate, only paying penalties when more than five consecutive days are worked and removing penalty rates for small businesses.

Some workers are earning up to $35 an hour on Sundays, with casual loadings taking the pay rate to nearly $40.

But union United Voice is fighting the move.    :)

"We are trying to draw a line in the sand - weekend penalty rates are back on the agenda," United Voice's Louise Tarrant said. "What it really represents is the tip of an iceberg and that is the incursion of work into family life. We're asking families, church groups and sporting clubs to get behind our website saveourweekend.org.au."

A new Galaxy poll reveals 87 per cent of respondents believe workers should be paid more on Sundays.

This week, employers will lodge fresh submissions with Fair Work Australia outlining the impact of penalty rates on their businesses.

Workplace Relations Minister Bill Shorten said getting paid more to work on a weekend was only fair.    ;)

"Australia may have come a long way since the 1950s but we haven't given up on the idea of a weekend," he said.

Restaurant and Catering Australia CEO John Hart said penalty rates were costing jobs.

"You can't negotiate a flat rate to compensate for weekends," he said. "That's causing a lot of pain. Businesses are going to the wall."

Paddington Inn bartender Michelle Congdon said casuals were entitled to the extra pay.

"When you work at night, some staff work until 5am or 6am and that could be considered overtime in another job," Ms Congdon, 25, said.

"And on public holidays we have to be on the other side of the bar while everyone else is having fun, so we deserve the extra money."    ;)

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/business/bitter-battle-for-sundays/story-e6frfm1i-1226448246731#ixzz23MyIERKN

Union push to keep weekends 'special'

    From: AAP
    August 12, 2012


UNION bosses have launched a campaign against employers pushing to scrap weekend penalty rates, out of concern that Saturdays and Sundays could lose their special appeal.    :-?

The current award for those working in hospitality can give workers 125 per cent of ordinary wages for working on Saturdays and 175 per cent for Sundays.

That may change after Restaurant and Catering Australia approached Fair Work Australia (FWA) to vary the award so that workers would receive penalty rates only if they worked for six or more consecutive days.

Louise Tarrant, a spokeswoman for United Voice (an amalgamated union which represents 130,000 workers in a wide range of industries including hospitality), believes the move could result in weekends no longer being considered special.    :(

It could also lead to more temporary workers from overseas filling jobs because there would be less incentive for locals to work on weekends, Ms Tarrant said.    :(


"Penalty rates currently mean that if you work on a weekend you get compensated for the fact that you are missing out on family time, social time, you are not able to participate in sport, or do all of the sort of things we expect to happen on a weekend," she said while launching the Save Our Weekend campaign in Canberra on Sunday.

"Once penalty rates go, then what is it about a Saturday or Sunday that makes it special, when any business can open on those days?"    :(

Restaurant and Catering Australia CEO John Hart argued that most Australians wanted to eat out on weekends but establishments that couldn't afford to pay Sunday penalty rates were at risk of closing.

"So Australians will not be able to do what they enjoy most," Mr Hart told AAP.

Mr Hart said he believed Monday to Friday pay rates were now higher than those paid on Sundays before the Fair Work Act became effective in 2009.    :P

"The Monday to Friday rate is already compensating for the penalty rates that we had previously, so the reality is our businesses cannot afford to open under a regime that imposes that amount of penalty," he said.       :(

Mr Hart, if you want people to work on weekends, then how about paying the penalty rates?.  Like you should be doing.    :(

penalty rates really should depend on how hard it is to get workers to fill shifts.

eg if youre at uni, you might be quite happy to work weekends.

if, like me, you fish as much as possible, i would be very happy to work a sunday and have a day off midweek when the boat traffic is much less.

but if employees dont want to work, then bosses should have to pay an appropriate incentive to encourage them to work.

flexible , individualized, sensible.

Quote
penalty rates really should depend on how hard it is to get workers to fill shifts.  No so, penalty rates should be paid to all workers, that work weekends.  Regardless if it is hard to fill shifts or not.    ;) 

No penalty rates?

Don't hold your breath expecting me to work weekends then, won't you?

Cos it AIN'T gonna happen.

fair enough, but , for example, in the taxi industry, you probably have a much better earning capacity on a weekend then you do mid week.

so you may have to pay an extra incentive to get people to work at different times to just weekends

there is no ,"one size fits all" 

noone should be forced to work weekends but noone should be excluded if it fits with their lifestyle, study commitments etc etc.

Union campaign, didnt read.

If shops don't like paying sunday rates to their staff, they shouldn't open Sundays ....

I don't get these people ..first they argue to change trading hours to allow sunday trading in order to remain competative, then they cry that they can't stay competative if they have to pay penalty rates .... penalty rates were in before they asked for sunday trading, if it wasn't going to work they shouldn't have argued for it in the first place.

Verge wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 11:04am:

Union campaign, didnt read.

Via a report in the Sunday Telegraph though - not directly from the union movement.  Seriously though, why did you not read it?  Even if you firmly believe that employers have every right to exploit workers as much as they can, shouldn't you at least be aware of what the union movement is saying and why they are saying it, if you want to be fully informed?

Frances wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 11:22am:

Verge wrote on Aug 13th, 2012 at 11:04am: Union campaign, didnt read. Via a report in the Sunday Telegraph though - not directly from the union movement.  Seriously though, why did you not read it?  Even if you firmly believe that employers have every right to exploit workers as much as they can, shouldn't you at least be aware of what the union movement is saying and why they are saying it, if you want to be fully informed?

Because the union is starting to gear into election mode, and I dont really care what they have to say.

Its the same things, Liberal bad, ALP good and the lies they spouted about workchoices was disgusting.  Like how AWA's werent allowed to bargain below an award, how AWA's had to be approved etc.  The union never told people that.

I know industrial relations like the back of my hand, I dont need union propaganda to influence my decision making, nor do I need any political interference full stop.

wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 7:41am:

Mr Hart, if you want people to work on weekends, then how about paying the penalty rates?.  Like you should be doing.    :(

And if you want to shop on weekends how about a 20% surcharge on all prices? Does that work for you?

And if you want to shop on weekends how about a 20% surcharge on all prices? Does that work for you?
That is not my decision.  That is up to the employer.  However if they make prices to high, customers may go elsewhere.   ;) 

You can make the same argument for Tuesdays, why should the employer have to pay wages on Tuesdays - everyone should be happy to work for free on this day.

It is only fair if we are going to be compedative?

Dnarever wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 4:01pm:

You can make the same argument for Tuesdays, why should the employer have to pay wages on Tuesdays - everyone should be happy to work for free on this day. It is only fair if we are going to be compedative?

They don't do penalty rates in Asia.

Dnarever wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 4:01pm:

You can make the same argument for Tuesdays, why should the employer have to pay wages on Tuesdays - everyone should be happy to work for free on this day. It is only fair if we are going to be compedative?

That argument would have to be 100times better to even be mocked as silly. Try again, this time trying not to look so dumb.

Looks to me like Kat has the right idea.  No weekend penalty rates = No weekend work.    :) 

wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 4:29pm:

Looks to me like Kat has the right idea.  No weekend penalty rates = No weekend work.    :)

and no open shops! that will upset you, wont it? no place to go and sit all day and do nothing using their heating and cooling and free toilets?

Enough shops will open.  Some will, others will decide to stay closed.  Not a problem.    ;) 

wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 5:14pm:

Enough shops will open.  Some will, others will decide to stay closed.  Not a problem.    ;)

yeah, great for the workers. Then they dont get paid AT ALL. See, this is the issue that you just dont get. Working is not a free ride. If the employer cannot afford to pay $x they either go broke or sack the employee. You just dont get that essential economic maxim.

gold_medal wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 4:08pm:

Dnarever wrote on Aug 13th, 2012 at 4:01pm: You can make the same argument for Tuesdays, why should the employer have to pay wages on Tuesdays - everyone should be happy to work for free on this day. It is only fair if we are going to be compedative? That argument would have to be 100times better to even be mocked as silly. Try again, this time trying not to look so dumb.

It is the same premise - just a small step further.

Kat wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 8:54am:

No penalty rates? Don't hold your breath expecting me to work weekends then, won't you? Cos it AIN'T gonna happen.

Unfortunatly many people don't have the option - almost nobody wants to work weekends.

Shane B wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 4:03pm:

Dnarever wrote on Aug 13th, 2012 at 4:01pm: You can make the same argument for Tuesdays, why should the employer have to pay wages on Tuesdays - everyone should be happy to work for free on this day. It is only fair if we are going to be compedative? They don't do penalty rates in Asia.

We don't have to eat dogs in Australia.

Penalty rates are the free market system is action:

If you want to allocate prime hours you need to pay a prime rate.

Dnarever wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 6:25pm:

Shane B wrote on Aug 13th, 2012 at 4:03pm: Dnarever wrote on Aug 13th, 2012 at 4:01pm: You can make the same argument for Tuesdays, why should the employer have to pay wages on Tuesdays - everyone should be happy to work for free on this day. It is only fair if we are going to be compedative? They don't do penalty rates in Asia. We don't have to eat dogs in Australia.

Yet.

Dnarever wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 6:20pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 13th, 2012 at 4:08pm: Dnarever wrote on Aug 13th, 2012 at 4:01pm: You can make the same argument for Tuesdays, why should the employer have to pay wages on Tuesdays - everyone should be happy to work for free on this day. It is only fair if we are going to be compedative? That argument would have to be 100times better to even be mocked as silly. Try again, this time trying not to look so dumb. It is the same premise - just a small step further.

not even close. it is the classic stretching of a concept to extents it was never intended to go, to try and prove a point that isnt there. If you tried that on a debating team you'd get thrown off and laughed at - deservedly.

Kat wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 6:29pm:

Dnarever wrote on Aug 13th, 2012 at 6:25pm: Shane B wrote on Aug 13th, 2012 at 4:03pm: Dnarever wrote on Aug 13th, 2012 at 4:01pm: You can make the same argument for Tuesdays, why should the employer have to pay wages on Tuesdays - everyone should be happy to work for free on this day. It is only fair if we are going to be compedative? They don't do penalty rates in Asia. We don't have to eat dogs in Australia. Yet.

:) :)  $6 dagwood dogs at the show, it was a sunday though  20 % surcharge

aquascoot wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 6:40pm:

Kat wrote on Aug 13th, 2012 at 6:29pm: Dnarever wrote on Aug 13th, 2012 at 6:25pm: Shane B wrote on Aug 13th, 2012 at 4:03pm: Dnarever wrote on Aug 13th, 2012 at 4:01pm: You can make the same argument for Tuesdays, why should the employer have to pay wages on Tuesdays - everyone should be happy to work for free on this day. It is only fair if we are going to be compedative? They don't do penalty rates in Asia. We don't have to eat dogs in Australia. Yet. :) :)  $6 dagwood dogs at the show, it was a sunday though  20 % surcharge

surcharges may end up coming into being which would be sad because that would damage weekend shopping but with margins dropping and volume also dropping there simply isnt room now for the excesses of penatly rates. Perhaps a 25% penaly rate instead of 50-100%. Sounds like a reasonable compromise to me.

gold_medal wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 7:00pm:

aquascoot wrote on Aug 13th, 2012 at 6:40pm: Kat wrote on Aug 13th, 2012 at 6:29pm: Dnarever wrote on Aug 13th, 2012 at 6:25pm: Shane B wrote on Aug 13th, 2012 at 4:03pm: Dnarever wrote on Aug 13th, 2012 at 4:01pm: You can make the same argument for Tuesdays, why should the employer have to pay wages on Tuesdays - everyone should be happy to work for free on this day. It is only fair if we are going to be compedative? They don't do penalty rates in Asia. We don't have to eat dogs in Australia. Yet. :) :)  $6 dagwood dogs at the show, it was a sunday though  20 % surcharge surcharges may end up coming into being which would be sad because that would damage weekend shopping but with margins dropping and volume also dropping there simply isnt room now for the excesses of penatly rates. Perhaps a 25% penaly rate instead of 50-100%. Sounds like a reasonable compromise to me.

Cafe near me has a 20% surcharge on Sundays. Other cafes nearby have no surcharge.

aquascoot wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 6:40pm:

Kat wrote on Aug 13th, 2012 at 6:29pm: Dnarever wrote on Aug 13th, 2012 at 6:25pm: Shane B wrote on Aug 13th, 2012 at 4:03pm: Dnarever wrote on Aug 13th, 2012 at 4:01pm: You can make the same argument for Tuesdays, why should the employer have to pay wages on Tuesdays - everyone should be happy to work for free on this day. It is only fair if we are going to be compedative? They don't do penalty rates in Asia. We don't have to eat dogs in Australia. Yet. :) :)  $6 dagwood dogs at the show, it was a sunday though  20 % surcharge

Hmmm, forgot about them.... :-?

real dog is probably more nutritious kat

aquascoot wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 7:22pm:

real dog is probably more nutritious kat

You're not wrong there....:-)

Probably tastes better too, and all....

Business push to remove weekend penalty rates would cut take-home pay of working Australians
Chef and waitress in restaurant kitchen
14 August, 2012 | Media Release Moves by employers to strip workers of penalty rates on weekends would cut take-home pay and will be strongly resisted by unions.    :)

ACTU President Ged Kearney said hundreds of thousands of workers in the retail and hospitality sectors depend on weekend penalty rates as a bedrock of their take-home pay and a campaign by employers to remove them would result in a less fair Australia.    :(

Ms Kearney said unions would use the Modern Awards Review process in Fair Work Australia to lock in entitlements for people who work on public holidays and weekends, and would unite against a campaign by employer groups to take away penalty rates from workers on Saturdays and Sundays.

She said the ACTU’s applications to the review would seek to preserve the rights to extra compensation that should come with working on days that most people take for granted as important family and social time.

“When employers talk about more flexibility in the workplace, what they are really seeking is to cut penalty rates and shift loadings that workers depend on as part of their take-home pay,” Ms Kearney said.    :(

“Adequate compensation for working anti-social hours is part of what makes a secure job. People in part-time or casual work often give up their time on weekends, evenings and public holidays because they are the only hours available to them and usually rely on penalty rates to provide them with a sustainable income.

“The employers leading the campaign to remove weekend and public holiday entitlements are those in the restaurant and catering industry, but we know this is the thin edge of the wedge and if employers succeed in these industries it will undermine the weekend penalty rate system across all industries.

“Business owners should try living on hospitality and retail wages before thinking about slashing penalty rates.    ;)

“We are concerned that removing penalty rates is not only on the employers’ wishlist, but recent comments by Tony Abbott confirm it is also part of the Liberal Party’s agenda for Australian workplaces. Australian workers have shown before that they will punish at the ballot box any politician or political party that seeks to take away penalty rates or otherwise slash longstanding workplace rights and entitlements.”

A national survey by the United Voice union released on Sunday found that 87% of Australians support the notion that if you work on weekends you should be entitled to a higher rate of pay.

Ms Kearney said the Save our Aussie Weekend campaign by the United Voice union to maintain penalty rates for the hundreds of thousands of workers in the retail and hospitality industries highlighted the issues of job and income security that the ACTU is campaigning about.    ;)