Israeli court backs demolition of 8 West Bank villages
Published: 10 August, 2012, 19:01

http://rt.com/files/news/israel-demolition-palestinian-villages-357/afp-bader-hazem-photo.n.jpg
AFP Photo / Hazem Bader

The Israeli Supreme Court has ruled in favor of the demolition of eight Palestinian villages on the West Bank. The Israeli Defense Ministry says it needs this land for military exercises and will displace some 1,500 Palestinians.

The Association of Civil Rights in Israel, which is representing the villagers in court, has until November to appeal the case or the villages will be destroyed, the Jerusalem Post reports.

The ACRI announced it plans to file a new petition adding that they believe the court’s decision is a technical one and allows a new case.

The state insists the villagers do not permanently reside in the villages and this provides grounds for their eviction from the territory.

The Israeli Defense Ministry intends to force locals to the city of Yatta where, the authorities claim, they have permanent homes.
The ACRI argues that the state neglects the fact that people live in the area for six consecutive months to cultivate the land.

Initially there were 12 villages Israeli authorities sought to raze in IDF Firing Zone 918. However, last month the state agreed to allow four of the villages to remain on their territory.

Zone 918, in the southern Mount Hebron region, covers an area of some 11.5 square miles (30 sq km). It is situated in Area C, the territory under full Israeli control, and is used by Israeli military for training including fire exercise.

According to a recent UN report, 45 per cent of demolitions of Palestinian-owned structures in Area C since 2010 have taken place in firing zones. This goes against the international law which prohibits forcing populations out of occupied territories. The UN has repeatedly expressed concerns over the demolitions in the West Bank.

The EU has also called on Israel not to demolish the villages. On Wednesday 15 EU missions visited Zone 918 to explore the situation in the area and issued a statement.

“The EU calls upon Israel to meet its obligations regarding the living conditions of the Palestinian population in Area C, by a policy shift entailing accelerated approval of Palestinian master plans, halting forced transfer of population and demolition of Palestinian housing,” the EU said in the statement.

Source: Russia Today

its important to keep the Palestinians in the permanent homes - and not in the moving ones because of security.

I read about this story in Haaretz and there was a lot of negotiation before this decision.

Doesnt matter how much "negotiation" there is if you dont include the ppl affected in said negotiations.

How many ppl are homeless now? Children also?

Oh and havent seen you in a while. Were you suspended?

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 14^th, 2012 at 10:29am:

Oh and havent seen you in a while. Were you suspended? SOB

I went to New Zealand and Singapore for vacation with uni friends.
I do not come to australia to not see other places in this region.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 14^th, 2012 at 10:35am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 14th, 2012 at 10:29am: Oh and havent seen you in a while. Were you suspended? SOB I went to New Zealand and Singapore for vacation with uni friends. I do not come to australia to not see other places in this region.

Ahh yeah i remember now you saying you were going.They didnt have internet?

Did you answer my other questions? About the west bank?

SOB

had the internet in auckland but not in the trekking in the south island which is most of the time.

Yes internet in singapore obvious but i only use it to read the news on Haaretz or J Post.
Not for here, this just fill my time when i have time in sydney.

what other questions?

On this west bank? -there were consultations with Palestinians organization who represend them.
They know the rules - in this zone palestinians cannot be mobile settlements but permanent.

I only know this situation from what Israeli news says but the reasons they were moved is because it was dangerous AND that the settlement was not permanent.
The Palestinians were consulted for months before this move and also Israeli court ruled on this too.

Maybe one day the tables will turn &
the Palestinians will start bulldozing Israeli houses?

One day maybe Israel will regain all her lost territories from centuries past and all this crap will stop.

Or maybe the yanks and britain and australia will stop supporting israel and they will have to leave the palestinains alone.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 14^th, 2012 at 12:28pm:

Or maybe the yanks and britain and australia will stop supporting israel and they will have to leave the palestinains alone. SOB

Maybe you will have a look at history if you are able or that way inclined to do so. If you did you will find that the Jew boys were there first?

Adamant wrote on Oct 14^th, 2012 at 3:28pm:

Maybe you will have a look at history if you are able or that way inclined to do so. If you did you will find that the Jew boys were there first?

So in 1800 years time, you think Aboriginals will have a right to come and kick Aussies out of their homes? All because they were there first?

Lakemba was aboriginal land once.

Right, and now it's Lebo land  ;D

You can have it! It's a pooh hole.

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 14^th, 2012 at 6:54pm:

Adamant wrote on Oct 14th, 2012 at 3:28pm: Maybe you will have a look at history if you are able or that way inclined to do so. If you did you will find that the Jew boys were there first? So in 1800 years time, you think Aboriginals will have a right to come and kick Aussies out of their homes? All because they were there first?

If your mob returned to your squat we Aussies would not have a problem.

Big Dave wrote on Oct 14^th, 2012 at 7:22pm:

You can have it! It's a pooh hole.

We want your suburb next. Just like Palestinian villages are overrun by the Zionists, so too will Aussie suburbs, sound like a good deal?

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 14^th, 2012 at 9:27pm:

Big Dave wrote on Oct 14th, 2012 at 7:22pm: You can have it! It's a pooh hole. We want your suburb next. Just like Palestinian villages are overrun by the Zionists, so too will Aussie suburbs, sound like a good deal?

They want Syria back how are you fixed wanna do a trade bro?

Who exactly wants Syria back?

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 14^th, 2012 at 7:18pm:

Right, and now it's Lebo land  ;D

That's how the Jews think.

Adamant wrote on Oct 14^th, 2012 at 3:28pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 14th, 2012 at 12:28pm: Or maybe the yanks and britain and australia will stop supporting israel and they will have to leave the palestinains alone. SOB Maybe you will have a look at history if you are able or that way inclined to do so. If you did you will find that the Jew boys were there first?

No i dont think so. The fairy tale book isnt proof.

SOB

Well - were the families in the homes @ the time as usual?

SOB

Big Dave wrote on Oct 15^th, 2012 at 4:23am:

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 14th, 2012 at 7:18pm: Right, and now it's Lebo land  ;D That's how the Jews think.

Yeh we got taught by the best squatters of all. And the beauty of it is you guys put them there, and now it comes back to bite you from behind  ;D :D ;D

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 15^th, 2012 at 5:39am:

Big Dave wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 4:23am: abu_rashid wrote on Oct 14th, 2012 at 7:18pm: Right, and now it's Lebo land  ;D That's how the Jews think. Yeh we got taught by the best squatters of all. And the beauty of it is you guys put them there, and now it comes back to bite you from behind  ;D :D ;D

Don't worry about it bud. The Jews will put their new home to some good use for once.

Big Dave wrote on Oct 15^th, 2012 at 12:32pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 5:39am: Big Dave wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 4:23am: abu_rashid wrote on Oct 14th, 2012 at 7:18pm: Right, and now it's Lebo land  ;D That's how the Jews think. Yeh we got taught by the best squatters of all. And the beauty of it is you guys put them there, and now it comes back to bite you from behind  ;D :D ;D Don't worry about it bud. The Jews will put their new home to some good use for once.

The Yahud in Sydney live in the wealthy eastern suburbs, Westfield shopping centres were founded by a jew.

The muslims in sydney live in the south west where drive by shootings happen frequently.

John Ibrahim a sunni lebanese muslim prefers to live with the jews in Dover heights.

The jews have low unemployment and jail numbers, muslims have high unemployment and jail figures.

The USB flash drives came from jews who hold the patents on this, what patents on any technology do muslims have?

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 15^th, 2012 at 5:03am:

Adamant wrote on Oct 14th, 2012 at 3:28pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 14th, 2012 at 12:28pm: Or maybe the yanks and britain and australia will stop supporting israel and they will have to leave the palestinains alone. SOB Maybe you will have a look at history if you are able or that way inclined to do so. If you did you will find that the Jew boys were there first? No i dont think so. The fairy tale book isnt proof. SOB

So your suggesting that outside of the bible there is no evidence of Jewish settlement in the area 2000+ years ago?

Quantum wrote on Oct 15^th, 2012 at 7:03pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 5:03am: Adamant wrote on Oct 14th, 2012 at 3:28pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 14th, 2012 at 12:28pm: Or maybe the yanks and britain and australia will stop supporting israel and they will have to leave the palestinains alone. SOB Maybe you will have a look at history if you are able or that way inclined to do so. If you did you will find that the Jew boys were there first? No i dont think so. The fairy tale book isnt proof. SOB So your suggesting that outside of the bible there is no evidence of Jewish settlement in the area 2000+ years ago?

Can you in any way prove that the people claiming the land today are actually related to these people from 2000 years ago?
Can you explain how being somewhere 2000 years ago would justify the slaughter and military occupation of peoples on certain lands today?

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 15^th, 2012 at 5:04am:

Well - were the families in the homes @ the time as usual? SOB

No.
And that too is usual.
I have escorted bulldozers some years ago as 1 of several units assigned and there must be a exclusion zone and no civilian allowed at the time of operation.

So you are wrong.
Again.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 15^th, 2012 at 7:13pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 5:04am: Well - were the families in the homes @ the time as usual? SOB No. And that too is usual. I have escorted bulldozers some years ago as 1 of several units assigned and there must be a exclusion zone and no civilian allowed at the time of operation. So you are wrong. Again.

So then how do civilians get killed by bulldozers?

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 15^th, 2012 at 7:13pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 5:04am: Well - were the families in the homes @ the time as usual? SOB No. And that too is usual. I have escorted bulldozers some years ago as 1 of several units assigned and there must be a exclusion zone and no civilian allowed at the time of operation. So you are wrong. Again.

It was a question how could i be "wrong"? Hahahhaha you cant help yourself can you.

Meanwhile how did you get them out of the homes?

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 15^th, 2012 at 7:25pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 7:13pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 5:04am: Well - were the families in the homes @ the time as usual? SOB No. And that too is usual. I have escorted bulldozers some years ago as 1 of several units assigned and there must be a exclusion zone and no civilian allowed at the time of operation. So you are wrong. Again. It was a question how could i be "wrong"? Hahahhaha you cant help yourself can you. Meanwhile how did you get them out of the homes? SOB

Removal of temporary caravan homes occurs after court order.
The company which does this work has eviction notices for the people that are occupying the zones.
They are given time and date by which all belongings and people must be gone.

If they are not gone, then they are removed.

Then after checks of the zones do the bulldozers start -- these are escorted by IDF.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 15^th, 2012 at 7:23pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 7:13pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 5:04am: Well - were the families in the homes @ the time as usual? SOB No. And that too is usual. I have escorted bulldozers some years ago as 1 of several units assigned and there must be a exclusion zone and no civilian allowed at the time of operation. So you are wrong. Again. So then how do civilians get killed by bulldozers?

Because they illegal trespass and jump into the way.
Much same as if you run on to a runway when a plane is landing.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 15^th, 2012 at 7:32pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 7:25pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 7:13pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 5:04am: Well - were the families in the homes @ the time as usual? SOB No. And that too is usual. I have escorted bulldozers some years ago as 1 of several units assigned and there must be a exclusion zone and no civilian allowed at the time of operation. So you are wrong. Again. It was a question how could i be "wrong"? Hahahhaha you cant help yourself can you. Meanwhile how did you get them out of the homes? SOB Removal of temporary caravan homes occurs after court order. The company which does this work has eviction notices for the people that are occupying the zones. They are given time and date by which all belongings and people must be gone. If they are not gone, then they are removed. Then after checks of the zones do the bulldozers start -- these are escorted by IDF.

What authority does an Israeli court have over a foreign nation?

this is Israeli land. The court has jurisdiction.

You think we restrict??? No, we are doing the opposite.

IDF pledges to ease travel restrictions in Jordan Valley


The Israel Defense Forces has promised to ease restrictions that prevent free passage for Palestinians to and from the Jordan Valley and separate it from the rest of the West Bank.

The Defense Ministry has informed the Association for Civil Rights in Israel, which has campaigned since 2006 for freedom of movement for Palestinians to and from the Jordan Valley.

"As part of our policy for improving the quality of life of the Palestinian population of Judea and Samaria, the IDF approved a few months ago free movement between Judea and Samaria and the Jordan Valley, subject to a security check," the IDF Spokesman's Office said.

The old procedure has been to allow free passage through checkpoints only to vehicles whose owners are registered as residents of a Palestinian community in the Jordan Valley. The driver has also had to be the vehicle's owner.

Since 2001, entry into the Jordan Valley has been banned for Palestinians whose ID card does not list an address in the Jordan Valley, or who do not hold an entry permit (as laborers in Jewish settlements do ). The prohibition has been imposed via four checkpoints on major roads and barriers on approach roads. The travel ban also applies to goods, agricultural produce and animals.

Already in 2007, then-Defense Minister Amir Peretz promised the ACRI that the restrictions would be lifted, but they were only partially lifted. Nonresident pedestrians were allowed to pass, but due to the distances involved, this had little meaning.

In recent years, two of the checkpoints have not been permanently staffed, while entry to the Jordan Valley via the southern exit from Jericho has been permitted so that theoretically Palestinians can enter the Jordan Valley. A check by the ACRI and Haaretz found that for the past few weeks one checkpoint has been allowing free passage without the old restrictions, while another still operates under them.

The travel restrictions, including those in force since 2007, largely hinder residents of the northern Jordan Valley, who live in small agricultural communities and depend on services such as education, health and employment from Nablus, Jenin and towns overlooking the valley. Some Jordan Valley lands belong to residents of those towns and cities.

The travel-restriction procedures made food and water supply for communities not linked to the water network more difficult and expensive, as it did regarding access to medical treatment and schools. Meanwhile, residents on the western side of the checkpoints were effectively cut off from relatives and friends on the eastern side.

Particularly difficult is the plight of around 15,000 Bedouin who are not registered as Jordan Valley residents but have lived there for many years in communities lacking infrastructure


http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/idf-pledges-to-ease-travel-restrictions-in-jordan-valley.premium-1.469999

---

Avram Horowitz

Andrei Hicks

You forgot one..

Adolf Hitler

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 15^th, 2012 at 7:32pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 7:25pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 7:13pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 5:04am: Well - were the families in the homes @ the time as usual? SOB No. And that too is usual. I have escorted bulldozers some years ago as 1 of several units assigned and there must be a exclusion zone and no civilian allowed at the time of operation. So you are wrong. Again. It was a question how could i be "wrong"? Hahahhaha you cant help yourself can you. Meanwhile how did you get them out of the homes? SOB Removal of temporary caravan homes occurs after court order. The company which does this work has eviction notices for the people that are occupying the zones. They are given time and date by which all belongings and people must be gone. If they are not gone, then they are removed. Then after checks of the zones do the bulldozers start -- these are escorted by IDF.

How would you like it if you were a refugee and told to move everything you owned so somebody from another country can bulldoze your home? Where would you go? Would you be angry?

SOB

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 15^th, 2012 at 7:33pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 7:23pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 7:13pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 5:04am: Well - were the families in the homes @ the time as usual? SOB No. And that too is usual. I have escorted bulldozers some years ago as 1 of several units assigned and there must be a exclusion zone and no civilian allowed at the time of operation. So you are wrong. Again. So then how do civilians get killed by bulldozers? Because they illegal trespass and jump into the way. Much same as if you run on to a runway when a plane is landing.

Yeah. right. you actually expect me to believe that? Ppl dont do that unless they were already there and you ppl just run them over and kill them. Yeah - likely excuse.

And its not illegal trespass if its their home. you are revolting.

SOB

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 14^th, 2012 at 10:17pm:

Who exactly wants Syria back?

A Jewish Queen ruled Syria once why cant the Jews have Syria back, you don't have a problem with that do you bigot.

Which Jewish queen?

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 15^th, 2012 at 7:33pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 7:23pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 7:13pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 5:04am: Well - were the families in the homes @ the time as usual? SOB No. And that too is usual. I have escorted bulldozers some years ago as 1 of several units assigned and there must be a exclusion zone and no civilian allowed at the time of operation. So you are wrong. Again. So then how do civilians get killed by bulldozers? Because they illegal trespass and jump into the way. Much same as if you run on to a runway when a plane is landing.

That is BS and you know it. The party line. Propaganda. They are in the way because they are in their homes when you knock them down.

SOB

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 15^th, 2012 at 7:36pm:

this is Israeli land. The court has jurisdiction.

No its not. Ppl live there.

SOB

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 10:31pm:

Which Jewish queen?

Did more than one Jewish Queen rule what is now the equivalent  of Syria.

Please enlighten me further Abu_Rashid

Adamant wrote on Oct 18^th, 2012 at 4:08pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 16th, 2012 at 10:31pm: Which Jewish queen? Did more than one Jewish Queen rule what is now the equivalent  of Syria. Please enlighten me further Abu_Rashid

So far you've yet to name one...

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 5:43am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 7:36pm: this is Israeli land. The court has jurisdiction. No its not. Ppl live there. SOB

Judea and Samaria is under jurisdiction of the Israeli Army.
This is fact.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 18^th, 2012 at 5:52pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 17th, 2012 at 5:43am: Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 15th, 2012 at 7:36pm: this is Israeli land. The court has jurisdiction. No its not. Ppl live there. SOB Judea and Samaria is under jurisdiction of the Israeli Army. This is fact.

So? I was talking about the west bank.

SOB

Judea & Samaria are what the Zionist garbage are planning to rename the West bank when they finally expel all the Palestinians.

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 19^th, 2012 at 6:11am:

Judea & Samaria are what the Zionist garbage are planning to rename the West bank when they finally expel all the Palestinians.

But its not judea or samaria - its the west bank.

SOB

This is your opinion if you read history Jordan regards this land as theirs.
Palestinians are treated as second class humans by the Arab world.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 19^th, 2012 at 7:05pm:

This is your opinion if you read history Jordan regards this land as theirs. Palestinians are treated as second class humans by the Arab world.

And what class by the jews?

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 20^th, 2012 at 5:10am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 19th, 2012 at 7:05pm: This is your opinion if you read history Jordan regards this land as theirs. Palestinians are treated as second class humans by the Arab world. And what class by the jews? SOB

They are not our people.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 1:29pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 20th, 2012 at 5:10am: Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 19th, 2012 at 7:05pm: This is your opinion if you read history Jordan regards this land as theirs. Palestinians are treated as second class humans by the Arab world. And what class by the jews? SOB They are not our people.

Yes they are, Jews are Semitic just like Arabs.
Also statistically many Arabs would be descended from what you call 'gods chosen people'.

Then may be ask them why they kill our women and children with terrorist bombs.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 2:31pm:

Then may be ask them why they kill our women and children with terrorist bombs.

History seems to show that people of all kinds defend themselves against Nazi's

They sure did defend themselves against those horrible nightclubs and buses. I heard one on teli the other day. A Jewish leader got up and said- the bloodshed will stop when the Palestinians love their children more than they hate ours.

Big Dave wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 2:41pm:

They sure did defend themselves against those horrible nightclubs and buses. I heard one on teli the other day. A Jewish leader got up and said- the bloodshed will stop when the Palestinians love their children more than they hate ours.

I feel sorry for you

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 2:44pm:

Big Dave wrote on Oct 21st, 2012 at 2:41pm: They sure did defend themselves against those horrible nightclubs and buses. I heard one on teli the other day. A Jewish leader got up and said- the bloodshed will stop when the Palestinians love their children more than they hate ours. I feel sorry for you

Little Dave doesn't deserve your pity.

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 2:44pm:

Big Dave wrote on Oct 21st, 2012 at 2:41pm: They sure did defend themselves against those horrible nightclubs and buses. I heard one on teli the other day. A Jewish leader got up and said- the bloodshed will stop when the Palestinians love their children more than they hate ours. I feel sorry for you

I feel sorry for you because you are dumb.

Big Dave wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 3:07pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 21st, 2012 at 2:44pm: Big Dave wrote on Oct 21st, 2012 at 2:41pm: They sure did defend themselves against those horrible nightclubs and buses. I heard one on teli the other day. A Jewish leader got up and said- the bloodshed will stop when the Palestinians love their children more than they hate ours. I feel sorry for you I feel sorry for you because you are dumb.

If Australia got invaded then I would like to see you call it terrorism for Australians to defend themselves.

So defending yourself is blowing up buses and killing kids then.

Big Dave wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 3:13pm:

So defending yourself is blowing up buses and killing kids then.

Well that's what Israel does...

Dave,

So if Indonesians invaded and took over Australia, if they brought their families and kids with them to occupy your home, you'd refrain from fighting them just because they were stupid enough to bring their kids into an occupation zone?

So you'd just get up and leave?

I'd never kill kids and women.

Big Dave wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 4:25pm:

I'd never kill kids and women.

Yet you support Israel and the West which has been responsible for the deaths of millions of them?

I'm never going to support islam. They want me converted or dead. They want the women in my life in a burqa.

Big Dave wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 4:28pm:

I'm never going to support islam. They want me converted or dead. They want the women in my life in a burqa.

So you support something much worse? Doesn't make much sense really.

Big Dave wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 2:41pm:

They sure did defend themselves against those horrible nightclubs and buses. I heard one on teli the other day. A Jewish leader got up and said- the bloodshed will stop when the Palestinians love their children more than they hate ours.

Thats just sad . . . . .

SOB

I wouldn't be feeling to sorry for the Taliban and Saddam's Army. I feel really bad for the innocent people killed by both sides though. They always get caught in the middle. I know what's good for the world and America has got more to offer. Look at South Korea. Fundamentalist Islam and tyrants have nothing to offer but death and misery. But if you want to go around apologising (like in your name) and kissing tyrant ass then good for you. Warriors bring about change. Ass kissers end up as slaves.

Big Dave wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 3:13pm:

So defending yourself is blowing up buses and killing kids then.

As opposed to bulldozing whole families in homes?

SOB

I personally believe that sending the jews back to the middle east was a bad idea. One part of me can  see why they did it. They did it so they could stop them getting slaughtered around the world. BUT the jews are an ambitious people and the arabs hate them and won't live with them. So the jews want the arabs gone. They can't live together because it'll be death. So what do you do?

Big Dave wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 4:46pm:

I personally believe that sending the jews back to the middle east was a bad idea. One part of me can  see why they did it. They did it so they could stop them getting slaughtered around the world. BUT the jews are an ambitious people and the arabs hate them and won't live with them. So the jews want the arabs gone. They can't live together because it'll be death. So what do you do?

Wow you keep changing the subject pretty often don't you...Why you gotta abandon all the other points you make?

So the Palestinians hate them but they were happy to accept millions of Jewish refugess fleeing the Nazis during ww2?
The 'hate' wouldn't have anything to do with them stealing their land, killing them in droves and forcing them into nazi style ghettos for generations...NAH IT MUST BE CAUSE THEIR JEWS  ::)

The jews are an arab peoples.

Jews are not Arabs you fool.

You realise you are defending terrorists who blow up buses knowing it is full of just women and small children?

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 5:02pm:

Big Dave wrote on Oct 21st, 2012 at 4:46pm: I personally believe that sending the jews back to the middle east was a bad idea. One part of me can  see why they did it. They did it so they could stop them getting slaughtered around the world. BUT the jews are an ambitious people and the arabs hate them and won't live with them. So the jews want the arabs gone. They can't live together because it'll be death. So what do you do? Wow you keep changing the subject pretty often don't you...Why you gotta abandon all the other points you make? So the Palestinians hate them but they were happy to accept millions of Jewish refugess fleeing the Nazis during ww2? The 'hate' wouldn't have anything to do with them stealing their land, killing them in droves and forcing them into nazi style ghettos for generations...NAH IT MUST BE CAUSE THEIR JEWS  ::) The jews are an arab peoples. I didn't cause the whole situation so  stop arguing with me and tell us how you think you can fix it. Some politican around the world might read it and use it. Abu wants the jews to up and leave . I don't think that's right. The jews and arabs can't live together because there will be massive death. So what do you think?

To apologist.

didn't cause the whole situation so  stop arguing with me and tell us how you think you can fix it. Some politican around the world might read it and use it. Abu wants the jews to up and leave . I don't think that's right. The jews and arabs can't live together because there will be massive death. So what do you think?

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 5:04pm:

Jews are not Arabs you fool. You realise you are defending terrorists who blow up buses knowing it is full of just women and small children?

Your both Semitic.
I am defending people who defend themselves, Israel has killed more innocent people then the Palestinians could ever hope to and you know it.
Your argument makes no sense.
"Support us, killers of hundreds of thousands of innocent people because our enemy has killed a few thousand at most."

Big Dave wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 5:08pm:

To apologist. didn't cause the whole situation so  stop arguing with me and tell us how you think you can fix it. Some politican around the world might read it and use it. Abu wants the jews to up and leave . I don't think that's right. The jews and arabs can't live together because there will be massive death. So what do you think?

Well if you want a solution the jews leaving is a pretty good one.
But you could start by not forcing them to live in nazi style ghettos where they have no chance at prosperity, you could give back some farmland so they can support themselves etc..
You do realise the vast majority of both populations do not want conflict, but when Israel does what it does some people are forced to defend themselves and rightfully so.

Well if you want a solution the jews leaving is a pretty good one. By apologist


That's wrong and extremist. Muslim are you?

Big Dave wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 5:14pm:

Well if you want a solution the jews leaving is a pretty good one. By apologist That's wrong and extremist. Muslim are you?

Strange, you needed to ignore 90% of my post to make that sound like a legitimate response. Wonder why?

Your right, it would only be appropriate if the Palestinians forced them from their land, killed thousands of them and locked them up in ghettos, then it wouldn't be extremist.

How many more arguments do you want to leave lying dead in your tracks?

Western Apologist the armchair muslim warrior fighting from the safety of his lounge room. Lakemba is full of them.

Big Dave wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 5:23pm:

Western Apologist the armchair muslim warrior fighting from the safety of his lounge room. Lakemba is full of them.

Wow, who would have expected it.. Another non argument  ::)

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 5:08pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 21st, 2012 at 5:04pm: Jews are not Arabs you fool. You realise you are defending terrorists who blow up buses knowing it is full of just women and small children? Your both Semitic. I am defending people who defend themselves, Israel has killed more innocent people then the Palestinians could ever hope to and you know it. Your argument makes no sense. "Support us, killers of hundreds of thousands of innocent people because our enemy has killed a few thousand at most."

We kill terrorists
We have a terms of engagement when firing to Palestinians so to avoid and minimalise innocent injures.
Palestinian terrorists get onto Jewish buses in Jerusalem see it is full of women and children as young as 3 and blow themselves up.

I share no tears for the deaths of Palestinian terrorists and I am happy to shoot them myself.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 6:02pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 21st, 2012 at 5:08pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 21st, 2012 at 5:04pm: Jews are not Arabs you fool. You realise you are defending terrorists who blow up buses knowing it is full of just women and small children? Your both Semitic. I am defending people who defend themselves, Israel has killed more innocent people then the Palestinians could ever hope to and you know it. Your argument makes no sense. "Support us, killers of hundreds of thousands of innocent people because our enemy has killed a few thousand at most." We kill terrorists We have a terms of engagement when firing to Palestinians so to avoid and minimalise innocent injures. Palestinian terrorists get onto Jewish buses in Jerusalem see it is full of women and children as young as 3 and blow themselves up. I share no tears for the deaths of Palestinian terrorists and I am happy to shoot them myself.

How can they be terrorists when they are defending themselves?
If you try then obviously your military is extremely incompetent because you have slaughtered thousands of innocent people.
Are you saying that it would be ok for Palestine to bomb Israel if they dropped them from planes instead?

Once again your argument makes no sense...
"Support us, killers of hundreds of thousands of innocent people because our enemy has killed a few thousand at most."

Defending yourself is not terrorism

Please tell me how you get on to a bus of women and children and blow it up on purpose is defending yourself?
Explain how this is defense?

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 6:02pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 21st, 2012 at 5:08pm: Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 21st, 2012 at 5:04pm: Jews are not Arabs you fool. You realise you are defending terrorists who blow up buses knowing it is full of just women and small children? Your both Semitic. I am defending people who defend themselves, Israel has killed more innocent people then the Palestinians could ever hope to and you know it. Your argument makes no sense. "Support us, killers of hundreds of thousands of innocent people because our enemy has killed a few thousand at most." We kill terrorists We have a terms of engagement when firing to Palestinians so to avoid and minimalise innocent injures. Palestinian terrorists get onto Jewish buses in Jerusalem see it is full of women and children as young as 3 and blow themselves up. I share no tears for the deaths of Palestinian terrorists and I am happy to shoot them myself.

And imo, their blood is on their own hands Avram.

The Jewish people have a legitimate right to defend themselves, and to kill those who are trying to kill them and destroy Israel.




Avram,

I hope that you enjoy this video by Pat Condell, ........he mentions the issue of Israel, and the Pal's;

The ugliest newspaper in Britain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOgV6Fvc8wc

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 6:50pm:

Please tell me how you get on to a bus of women and children and blow it up on purpose is defending yourself? Explain how this is defense?

Its the only thing they can do. They have no planes to do an "airstrike" they have no weapons to wage a proper war.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2012 at 4:52am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 21st, 2012 at 6:50pm: Please tell me how you get on to a bus of women and children and blow it up on purpose is defending yourself? Explain how this is defense? Its the only thing they can do. They have no planes to do an "airstrike" they have no weapons to wage a proper war. SOB

"They have no....." peaceful intentions.

The destruction of Israel, and the slaughter of the Jewish people, are their only aim, .....in the service of their god.






Quote:

"Allah is our objective; the Quran is our law, the Prophet is our leader; Jihad is our way; and death for the sake of Allah is the highest of our aspirations."

The moslem brotherhood call to duty - BEING A MOSLEM = = LIVE AND DIE FOR ALLAH.


ISLAM, is the death cult of Mohammed.





"....the death of those who are killed for the cause of God gives more impetus to the cause, which continues to thrive on their blood."
ISLAMIC scholar, Sayyid Qutb, .......A moslem, promoting, justifying, ISLAM's murder of those who do not believe, as they believe.



Google;
We love death as you love life, mujahideen





Raymond Ibrahim: How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior
Consider this video of Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami, a top-ranked figure in Egypt’s Salafi movement which won some 25% of the votes in recent elections. He makes clear a point that, in a different era, would be thoroughly eye-opening—that all notions of peace with non-Muslims are based on circumstance: when Muslims are weak, they should be peaceful; when strong, they should go on the offensive.
......Burhami is referring to the famous Mecca/Medina division: when Muhammad was weak and outnumbered in his early Mecca period, he preached peace and made pacts with infidels; when he became strong in the Medina period, he preached war and went on the offensive. This dichotomy—preach peace when weak, wage war when strong—has been instructive to Muslim leaders for ages.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/01/raymond-ibrahim-how-circumstance-dictates-islamic-behavior.html






Quote:

Live in peace till strong enough to wage jihad, says UK Deoband scholar to Muslims London, Sept.8 [2007] A Deobandi scholar believes Muslims should preach peace till they are strong enough to undertake a jihad, or a holy war. Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani was quoted by the BBC as saying that Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, only until they gain enough power to engage in battle.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2409833.ece



And on, and on, and on it goes.....

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2012 at 4:52am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 21st, 2012 at 6:50pm: Please tell me how you get on to a bus of women and children and blow it up on purpose is defending yourself? Explain how this is defense? Its the only thing they can do. They have no planes to do an "airstrike" they have no weapons to wage a proper war. SOB

Board a bus look around see just innocent women and children.
That is not war.
That is terrorism.

If you support that you are disgusting.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2012 at 11:07am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 22nd, 2012 at 4:52am: Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 21st, 2012 at 6:50pm: Please tell me how you get on to a bus of women and children and blow it up on purpose is defending yourself? Explain how this is defense? Its the only thing they can do. They have no planes to do an "airstrike" they have no weapons to wage a proper war. SOB Board a bus look around see just innocent women and children. That is not war. That is terrorism. If you support that you are disgusting.

If you support (and actually participate in) airtrikes on 2 large apartment buildings then you are disgusting.

SOB

I asked a question you can answer.

Do you support a guy getting onto a civilian bus seeing it has only women and young children and blow it up?

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2012 at 11:42am:

I asked a question you can answer. Do you support a guy getting onto a civilian bus seeing it has only women and young children and blow it up?

A hell of a lot more then I support what Israel does.

It seems that there are a couple of likely outcomes.

1) Both sides and their supporters, accept that the past can not be changed, but with good will & an acceptance of change on the part of both sides, a reasonable future is still negotiable. 

2) Both sides and their supporters, continue their current approach to each other.

In respect of approach one, an outcome is possible where the past remains but all sides concentrate on a decent future for each other and eventually learn to live together, without tearing at the very fabric of their lives!

In respect of approach two, eventually the very fabric of their lives of both sides is completely torn asunder, no one wins & everyone loses!

The choices may & may not, be quite that stark, but they are the two essential choices!

To all involved, I suggest a step back & a deep breath, may actually be the first step forward, on a new path.

This path needs to be walked together, by both sides into possibly a more hopeful & brighter future.

Should  both sides Fail to walk this path together, they may well condemn future generations, on both sides, to become permanently lost, in a dark wilderness of distress & distrust.

As always, the choice lays with you & with me, the choice is ours to make and I hope we make the right choice!

perceptions_now,

Your two scenarios have some merit, however what it doesn't take into account is what each side is working with. For the Palestinians, scenario two has already been chosen for them (ever since 1948) and they live it day in day out, so there's nothing for them to lose by continuing to work for the reversal of the entire situation, and nothing to gain by working for scenario one.

On the other hand we have have the Zionists who live according to the projected outcomes for scenario one (for the most part anyway), and so they have everything to lose by abandoning that.

Your scenarios, like most proposed by outsiders, do not take into account whatsoever what each side entered this situation with. It simply says "cut your losses and move on", and that's not a viable, and certainly not a just, solution.

The Palestinians did not ask for any of this to come to them, and they should not have to make any concession to right a wrong they did not invite nor cause in any way whatsoever. If the Zionists want to right the wrong they wrought, all power to them for that, but expecting the victim to do so is just ludicrous. It's like telling a rape victim to just move on and get along with their attacker, or worse that they have to marry them and live with them, because the rape cannot be undone.

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2012 at 6:31pm:

perceptions_now, Your two scenarios have some merit, however what it doesn't take into account is what each side is working with. For the Palestinians, scenario two has already been chosen for them (ever since 1948) and they live it day in day out, so there's nothing for them to lose by continuing to work for the reversal of the entire situation, and nothing to gain by working for scenario one. On the other hand we have have the Zionists who live according to the projected outcomes for scenario one (for the most part anyway), and so they have everything to lose by abandoning that. Your scenarios, like most proposed by outsiders, do not take into account whatsoever what each side entered this situation with. It simply says "cut your losses and move on", and that's not a viable, and certainly not a just, solution. The Palestinians did not ask for any of this to come to them, and they should not have to make any concession to right a wrong they did not invite nor cause in any way whatsoever. If the Zionists want to right the wrong they wrought, all power to them for that, but expecting the victim to do so is just ludicrous. It's like telling a rape victim to just move on and get along with their attacker, or worse that they have to marry them and live with them, because the rape cannot be undone.

I understand there are great difficulties involved, in moving forward, particularly for those party's most closely involved.

However, the two essential choices remain and if both party's can not take that first & subsequent steps, then outcome two will eventually take place and everyone will lose!

So, whilst I understand that there are past issues that will remain, from both perspectives, it is essential that the party's understand that if they both fail to communicate with each other now and they both fail to take the first step forward now, then they may well condemn future generations, on both sides, to oblivion.

Obviously, there will be some stumbling blocks along the way, but the end outcomes are very clear, so I hope the correct choices are made, by both sides of the dilemma and that outcomes are found that both party's can live with, instead of die for!

I have said here before a few months previous that I believe that Israel has been just and fair for what is proposed.
I will not vote in this coming election but I think now with more younger generations and less who fought with no land in 1945 times that we make better progress.

People like me and my generation. Young overseas educated Israeli with wish to live in peace.
It is us that can deliver it.

Me I would be happy to work with moderate Palestinians to achieve two state solution.
Abbas and his Fatah was good option.
Hamas no. I will never see Israel work with terrorists.

So I think we work to agreements. For me on our side I would insist,
1) 2 states with West Bank and Gaza
2) Golan stay Israeli
3) Jerusalem must not be shared. It is 100% Israeli.
4) keep ID card system but allow Palestinians to cross Israel.
5) no more settlements in Judea and Samaria. Just existing ones to stay.
6) work with Fatah but insist the Palestinians denounce Hamas and Hizbollah.

I think the young generation is the key.
But I do go home knowledge that so many Aussies support us.
I will be sad to leave Australia.

perceptions_now wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2012 at 7:52pm:

I understand there are great difficulties involved, in moving forward, particularly for those party's most closely involved. However, the two essential choices remain and if both party's can not take that first & subsequent steps, then outcome two will eventually take place and everyone will lose!

I think what you're neglecting to realise is that Palestinians have already lived for over half a century with outcome two. They have nothing to lose, they're already there. Threatening them with a possible outcome two is pointless, since they already live it, day in, day out.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2012 at 8:14pm:

fought with no land in 1945

At least you are now coming to admit you are a squatter.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2012 at 8:14pm:

I have said here before a few months previous that I believe that Israel has been just and fair for what is proposed. I will not vote in this coming election but I think now with more younger generations and less who fought with no land in 1945 times that we make better progress. People like me and my generation. Young overseas educated Israeli with wish to live in peace. It is us that can deliver it. Me I would be happy to work with moderate Palestinians to achieve two state solution. Abbas and his Fatah was good option. Hamas no. I will never see Israel work with terrorists. So I think we work to agreements. For me on our side I would insist, 1) 2 states with West Bank and Gaza 2) Golan stay Israeli 3) Jerusalem must not be shared. It is 100% Israeli. 4) keep ID card system but allow Palestinians to cross Israel. 5) no more settlements in Judea and Samaria. Just existing ones to stay. 6) work with Fatah but insist the Palestinians denounce Hamas and Hizbollah. I think the young generation is the key. But I do go home knowledge that so many Aussies support us. I will be sad to leave Australia.

The specifics of any lasting arrangements in the region must come from the active participants, but those arrangements will also necessarily involve proposals, which at first sight may seem to go too far, by both sides!

This dilemma, will no doubt, require the clearing of stumbling blocks along the way, some of which have been created by the respective antagonists, whilst some of those stumbling blocks were created by others in the international community.

As I have already said, I hope that the right choices are made, by both sides of this dilemma and that outcomes are found that both party's can live with, instead of die for!

On a personal note, I wish you well for your future, on leaving Australia.

I also hope that is the case for your family & all other families in the region and that a way past the Gordian Knot is found!

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2012 at 10:56pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Oct 22nd, 2012 at 7:52pm: I understand there are great difficulties involved, in moving forward, particularly for those party's most closely involved. However, the two essential choices remain and if both party's can not take that first & subsequent steps, then outcome two will eventually take place and everyone will lose! I think what you're neglecting to realise is that Palestinians have already lived for over half a century with outcome two. They have nothing to lose, they're already there. Threatening them with a possible outcome two is pointless, since they already live it, day in, day out.

I understand that there are some intractable dilemma's, but trust me, under outcome two there is still a great deal to be lost, by both sides.

As I have already said, the specifics of any lasting arrangements in the region must come from the active participants, but those arrangements will also necessarily involve proposals, which at first sight may seem to go too far, by both sides!

This dilemma, will no doubt, require the clearing of stumbling blocks along the way, some of which have been created by the respective antagonists, whilst some of those stumbling blocks were created by others in the international community.

As I have already said, I hope that the right choices are made, by both sides of this dilemma and I  hope that a way past this Gordian Knot can be found!