For me its the only subject in modern politics I can think of where a moral answer is'nt certain.
Without directly focusing on the precise economic figures Australia spends I am interested in more of a morality discussion on the subject. My previous stance was that we should help them where we can, but this is as vague as our current policy.

Obviously the major questions are how much can we spend on processing them? How many can we let in? How do we choose which ones to enter and what can we do to prevent them? etc.

But what I think should be the first question we have to ask is should we go out of our way to help them, when we still have our own problems locally with homlessness and equality etc. Are we ignoring our own suffering youth and poor to help people whose own countries should be helping them.

Tommy wrote on Dec 21^st, 2012 at 7:44am:

For me its the only subject in modern politics I can think of where a moral answer is'nt certain. Without directly focusing on the precise economic figures Australia spends I am interested in more of a morality discussion on the subject. My previous stance was that we should help them where we can, but this is as vague as our current policy.

We should help genuine refugees.

No moslem is a genuine refugee, imo.

They are lying scum.

That assertion is easy to prove.



If a person opens his mouth and states;

"I am a moslem."

Then you know straight away, that person is a pathological liar.

Dictionary;
pathological = =
1 involving, caused by, or of the nature of a disease.
2 compulsive: a pathological gambler.
3 of or relating to pathology.






In the 'religion' of ISLAM, lying and deceit, is a 'holy' religious doctrine.


“Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible..., and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. ...One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya




Google;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit

Google;
we smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"



How Taqiyya Alters Islams Rules of War
http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-wari





Quote:

Obviously the major questions are how much can we spend on processing them?

As much are you [as the one who is paying for it through your taxes ]are prepared to spend.i

Quote:

How many can we let in?

The number SHOULD BE, zero moslems.



Why so ?

Because moslems are persons who harbour a self-confessed criminal intent towards those who do not believe as they believe.




And by declaring [and, by continuing to declare];

"I am a moslem."

Every moslem, is directly associating them-self with what ISLAM promotes and encourages [as a philosophy], and they are thereby associating themselves with those acts which are purposefully being done, 'in the name of Allah'.


i.e.
A 'moslem', is a person who chooses to embrace a philosophy [ISLAM] which teaches moslems that those who do not believe, as they believe [and reject what they, moslems, believe], are their mortal enemies.

AND, ISLAM teaches moslems that it is 'lawful' for moslems, to kill those who do not believe, as they believe.

That is the reality.


"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11


"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123


"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111i
Quote:

How do we choose which ones to enter and what can we do to prevent them? etc.

Every 'good' moslem that enters, by self declaring as a moslem, is self declaring a criminal intent [by our laws] against local non-moslems.

ISLAM is a criminal compact among moslems, to wage a violent 'religious' war against ALL non-moslems ['unbelievers'].

That statement may be uncomfortable to some, but it is TRUTH, factual.iQuote:

But what I think should be the first question we have to ask is should we go out of our way to help them, when we still have our own problems locally with homlessness and equality etc. Are we ignoring our own suffering youth and poor to help people whose own countries should be helping them.

Moslem nations should be absorbing moslem refugees, an funding their care.

But they don't.

The oil rich states like Saudi Arabia could help [their fellow] moslem refugees.

But they don't.




Only idiot Western nations are helping moslem [so called] refugees escape Sharia jurisdictions !!,
......moslem 'refugees' who all come to Western nations for sanctuary,

And then when those moslem 'refugees' arrive in Western nations, many of those moslem 'refugees' begin to assert that they want to impose their own failed ISLAMIC culture AND A SHARIA JURISDICTION AND ITS LAWS, upon their generous and compassionate but naive, host countries.

That is scenario totally insane.

Allowing moslems to migrate to Western nations, is insane and destructive to our institutions and freedoms.

---

Yadda,

That's not my understanding of Islam. Muslims generally seem happy in Turkey, Malaysia and the world's largest Islamic nation, Indonesia. Please explain how you claim to know all that.

newtown_grafitti wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2012 at 10:54pm:

Yadda, That's not my understanding of Islam. Muslims generally seem happy in Turkey, Malaysia and the world's largest Islamic nation, Indonesia. Please explain how you claim to know all that.

Google;
Turkey's treatment of religious minorities


Google;
Malaysia's treatment of religious minorities


Google;
Indonesia's treatment of religious minorities





And some recent evidences of NOT pluralistic, and NOT tolerant,
....Malaysia Indonesia, and Turkey.



n.b.       LGBT = = Lesbians, Gays, Bisexuals and Transsexuals   

"Malaysia's Prime Minister: LGBTs, liberalism, and pluralism are enemies of Islam"
"Last Malaysian Hindu temple in central Kuala Lumpur condemned, given five days to vacate"
"Malaysian temple condemned, temple staff and devotees given 15 minutes to leave"
"Malaysian government views LGBT community as a 'spreading problem' to be stopped"
"Malaysian deputy prime minister: Islam not compatible with freedom, liberal thought"
"Yet another Malaysian non-Muslim house of worship demolished"
"Malaysian state holding seminar on "threat of Christianity" "
"A message from Malaysia's king: "Muslims need to emulate Prophet Muhammad" "


n.b.      Ahmadiyah & Shi'ites in Indonesia = = a wrong 'kind' of moslem = = an infidel

"Indonesian President at UN calls for legally binding Sharia blasphemy law criminalizing criticism of Islam"
"Indonesia: Catholic schools threatened with closure for not teaching Islam"
"Indonesia: Sunni Muslim preachers incited murder of Shi'ites"
"Indonesia: Ahmadiyah forced to apologize after being brutalized by Muslim mob"
"Modern, moderate Indonesia: Shi'ite cleric convicted of blasphemy, sentenced to two years in prison"
"Indonesia: Muslim mob attacks Ahmadiyya community, injuring four"


"Turkey's Erdogan: "Islamophobia" should be recognized as a crime against humanity"
"Turkish Minister halts military band to allow crowd to chant "Allahu akbar""
"Turkish government ordered 2007 torture and murder of Christian publishers"
"Turkish Islamic supremacists bar woman from public bus: "We would sin if you get on this bus, you are causing us to sin""
"Turkey: New law requires Islamic prayer rooms in all shopping malls, movie theaters, and other public spaces such as theaters and operas"
"Turkey: Internationally renowned pianist charged with insulting Islam"
"Turkey: Muslim mobs attacking Christian clerics"



http://www.jihadwatch.org/malaysia/

http://www.jihadwatch.org/indonesia/

http://www.jihadwatch.org/turkey/





+++

more from my archive....

16 May 2006
Pressure on multi-faith Malaysia
Malaysia is considering its multi-cultural credentials after a crowd of Muslims on Sunday broke up a meeting called to defend the rights of religious minorities.
...."I'm becoming an alien in Malaysia, in my own country," says Dr Jacob George.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4965580.stm


Destruction of Non-Muslim Worship Centers Riles Faith Minorities in Malaysia
By Sean Yoong for AP:
April 01, 2007
PUTRAJAYA, Malaysia - The cavernous pink Putra Mosque with its soaring minaret is one of the most commanding sights and popular tourist photo backdrops in the new city of Putrajaya.
A house of worship for thousands of Muslims in the 8-year-old administrative capital of Malaysia, it is a showcase of the nation's dominant faith  Islam.
But the mosque also highlights the fact that Putrajaya doesn't have a single church or temple  a fact that minority Buddhists, Hindus and Christians see as one example of the second-class treatment other faiths get in this Muslim-majority country.
http://christianpost.com/article/20070330/destruction-of-non-muslim-worship-centers-riles-faith-minorities-in-malaysia.htm


Church demolished in Muslim-run state [Malaysia]
June 19 2007
Kuala Lumpur - Authorities have demolished a church in a Muslim-ruled state in northeast Malaysia, sparking anger among the indigenous people who say they own the property....
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=126&art_id=nw20070619141302153C420344


THOSE LINKS MAY BE DEAD NOW.

newtown_grafitti wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2012 at 10:54pm:

Yadda, That's not my understanding of Islam. Muslims generally seem happy in Turkey, Malaysia and the world's largest Islamic nation, Indonesia. Please explain how you claim to know all that.

He knows because he read it on Jihad Watch. Yadda, here is another site you should visit occasionally. They are Baptists. They share similar religious ideals to yours, but they show a great deal more compassion than you do. While I don't agree with all articles on this site, they do attempt  to introduce more balance.
http://baptistsocialissues.com/

An older article on boat people. Much of it still applies today:

http://baptistsocialissues.com/boat-people-facts-fictions-and-faith/

muso wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2012 at 9:11am:

newtown_grafitti wrote on Dec 22nd, 2012 at 10:54pm: Yadda, That's not my understanding of Islam. Muslims generally seem happy in Turkey, Malaysia and the world's largest Islamic nation, Indonesia. Please explain how you claim to know all that. He knows because he read it on Jihad Watch. Yadda, here is another site you should visit occasionally. They are Baptists. They share similar religious ideals to yours, but they show a great deal more compassion than you do. While I don't agree with all articles on this site, they do attempt  to introduce more balance. http://baptistsocialissues.com/ An older article on boat people. Much of it still applies today: http://baptistsocialissues.com/boat-people-facts-fictions-and-faith/

Thank you muso.

You have chosen your friends muso.

And i can choose mine too.

And i know [i firmly believe] that my God will judge me for my mistakes.



I would guess that you would believe that Christians should not 'judge' others.

While my own belief on that matter is, that [as an act of their faith] Christians need to exercise judgement of those things that are around them.
And that we are required to choose the good, and to separate ourselves from what we judge to be based in evil.
Others can make their own choices.


Revelation 3:15
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16  So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.


Quote:

Modern synonyms of the word "lukewarm": lacking ardor, enthusiasm or conviction; moderate; mild; unemotional; halfhearted; hesitant; indecisive; irresolute; uncertain; uncommitted; unresponsive; indifferent; impassive; languid; phlegmatic; apathetic; nonchalant; lackadaisical.

+++

'REFUGEES'

muso,

How can you base decision making [i.e. discernment] on what are false or untrue precepts ?

Dictionary;
precept = =
1 a general rule regulating behaviour or thought.
2 a writ or warrant.

Dictionary;
discerning = = having or showing good judgement.





Quote:

A refugee is defined by the United Nations Convention on Refugees as a person who “owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality, and is unable to or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country…”(3)

from;
http://baptistsocialissues.com/boat-people-facts-fictions-and-faith/

I have no argument with the definition.
Only with how the definition is applied in the real world.

1/ Moslems lie, profusely, intentionally, lying is used by moslems, as a cultural weapon [taqiyya].
2/ The United Nations is a deeply corrupt organisation, purporting to serve mankind.   [imo, the United Nations FACILITATE evil and corrupt actions all over the world.  If i had the power to do so, i would disband the United Nations tomorrow.   imo, Australia should definitely NOT be a member of the United Nations. The United Nations is largely a gang of criminals, and thugs, and murderers.]



To make my point;

[I wrote this back in 2009]

Quote:

UN Human Rights Commission members include... China [Tiananmen Square, continuing human rights abuses, Tibet.] !!, Zimbabwe [what need i say????] !!, Saudi Arabia [persecution of Christians, and muslim apostates, Google, Saudi Arabia maid abuse ] !!, Russia [info not to hand], Pakistan [persecution of Christians, and muslim apostates] !!, Sudan [ethinic cleansing in Darfur, the Gillian Gibbons 'insulting ISLAM', teddy bear 'incident'] !!, Egypt [persecution of Christians, and muslim apostates] !! Some past members of UNHRC include... Algeria, Vietnam, Syria and Libya. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Commission_on_Human_Rights#Criticism

muso,

One sentence;

"Birds of a feather, flock together."

Yadda wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2012 at 1:01pm:

Quote: A refugee is defined by the United Nations Convention on Refugees as a person who “owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality, and is unable to or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country…”(3) from; http://baptistsocialissues.com/boat-people-facts-fictions-and-faith/ I have no argument with the definition. Only with how the definition is applied in the real world.

Pure evil.

"The United Nations High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR) rejected or closed the applications of seven Afghan Christian families...."


"An Afghan Christian widow and three of her daughters were denied refugee status by the United Nations High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR) in New Delhi for the second time last month, and currently face imminent deportation to their home country where they could face imprisonment for apostasy and a potential death sentence."

Your friends ?



The United Nations High Commission for Refugees and the United Nations Human Rights Council are bodies that are essentially ISLAMIC 'forums' today, in the United Nations, and are being used to promote what are essentially ISLAMIC religious doctrines, within their areas of influence and authority within the United Nations.





muso,

Why are countries like Pakistan and Egypt NOT criticised within these United Nations bodies, when members [especially the children] of religious minorities resident in those two ISLAMIC countries are being routinely and incessantly persecuted, abducted, raped, and forcefully converted to ISLAM ?

muso,

Why are countries like AUSTRALIA, not speaking out in the United Nations and its forums, about the constant persecution of members of religious minorities in many ISLAMIC countries ???

I would have thought that that [i.e. speaking out about the human rights abuses, against minorities that is happening within the societies of United Nations member states] would have been a priority for a nation like AUSTRALIA ???







Google;
christians rejected as refugees

Google;
christians, in muslim countries rejected as refugees

Google;
religious minorities, in muslim countries



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Human_Rights_Council#Members




Hey muso,

I am not the only one who my God will judge.



Job 13:14
Wherefore do I take my flesh in my teeth, and put my life in mine hand?
15  Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.
16  He also shall be my salvation: for an hypocrite shall not come before him.

In my opinion someone who posts long lists of inflammatory headlines without evidentiary links to support them is not even worth reading, much less replying.

newtown_grafitti wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2012 at 10:08pm:

In my opinion someone who posts long lists of inflammatory headlines without evidentiary links to support them is not even worth reading, much less replying.

Of course not.

You are forgiven.

Yadda,

I am merely pointing out that the website I quoted is in line with Baptist (Evangelical Christian) mainstream thought, but that they seem to have a much more charitable view of refugees than you do.

In the words of G W Bush, "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists", so maybe this particular brand of Evangelical Christians is wrong. I'm asking for your advice on this because you just know which particular group of evangelical Christians represent the right-thinking one true church. Maybe this particular congregation is  indeed influenced by the Devil if they don't automatically read "refugee" to read "heretical Muslim devil".

Now, I'm not taking sides here or accusing you of doublethink, but hey, watch out where you're pointing that branding iron. I really don't want to be psychologically maimed by collateral venom if you'll excuse the mixed metaphor.

To be honest, I really don't identify much with Baptists. I'm just presenting the site as a kind of mirror on your "soul", and ...well to be honest, your last post was quite illuminating in that respect, and the illumination that I caught a glimpse of,  did have a marked tint of fiery orange as opposed to a pure white heavenly glow.

On the surface, I'm seeing a lot of torment  and anger and maybe just a touch of avarice. Surely this can't be a reflection of your true Christian character. Tell me that what I'm seeing is wrong. Maybe I just need to do some Hail Mary's or some such thing.

muso wrote on Dec 24^th, 2012 at 10:51pm:

Yadda, ......I'm just presenting the [Baptist] site as a kind of mirror on your "soul", and ...well to be honest, your last post was quite illuminating in that respect, and the illumination that I caught a glimpse of,  did have a marked tint of fiery orange as opposed to a pure white heavenly glow.

muso,

I am like everyone else [on this journey].
I have a physical aspect [i must live in this physical world].
And i have a spirit aspect [i recognise that there is a spirit realm].
And i am influenced by each aspect.

And i have come to believe that my primary purpose in being here, is to learn to differentiate between what is right and what is wrong [as 'defined' by God].

And those things in the physical, which influence us, are not all bad.
And those things in the spirit, which can influence us, are not all good.

Q.
If a person could differentiate between right and wrong, would he/she seek to be influenced by the 'world' which man has made ???
Or, would that person seek a more 'worthy' influence, upon his character ?




muso,

'...I caught a glimpse of,  did have a marked tint of fiery orange as opposed to a pure white heavenly glow.'

Fire, a fiery orange ?

Sometimes after reading bible passages, a 'picture' or an insight will develop in my mind, and i begin to understand [or maybe imagine?] how things will play out.

I wish that i understood better, what is coming upon men.   [....in any case, i have no authority to reveal it.]

I believe that a true 'understanding'/knowledge will be revealed, eventually [and simultaneously], to all men.

Suddenly all men, all of mankind, will have knowledge of God.

Please believe me, my God is able to do that, to instantly impart that knowledge of himself, to all.

And when that moment comes, some will be joyous, and some of us will be very fearful.


Deuteronomy 4:24
For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

Hebrews 12:29
For our God is a consuming fire.




Quote:

On the surface, I'm seeing a lot of torment  and anger and maybe just a touch of avarice. Surely this can't be a reflection of your true Christian character. Tell me that what I'm seeing is wrong. Maybe I just need to do some Hail Mary's or some such thing.

Yes, anger.
Sometimes it is an anger directed inward, which turns into sorrow and repentance [in my heart].
And sometimes it is an anger i direct outwards, if i feel that is appropriate. [i.e. i make a choice]

But God is [and will be] the judge [of others], not me.

Yes, avarice.
I am, and i have been, a selfish person.



I am a spiritual 'creature', yet, i inhabit this physical form [this body, this clay 'temple'], and at this time i am 'imprisoned' in this world.
And yes, in every waking moment in this body, i am influenced by the things of this world, to some extent.

I told you previously, believe that i am going to be judged, by my God [my creator].



Hey muso,

Q.
Why would God choose to forgive me, for my mistakes ?




Psalms 78:37
For their heart was not right with him, neither were they stedfast in his covenant.
38  But he, being full of compassion, forgave their iniquity, and destroyed them not: yea, many a time turned he his anger away, and did not stir up all his wrath.
39  For he remembered that they were but flesh; a wind that passeth away, and cometh not again.


Psalms 32:2
Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.


Psalms 25:8
Good and upright is the LORD: therefore will he teach sinners in the way.
9  The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way.
10  All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.
11  For thy name's sake, O LORD, pardon mine iniquity; for it is great.
12  What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.
13  His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.
14  The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

Yadda wrote on Dec 27^th, 2012 at 12:32am:

.....in every waking moment in this body, i am influenced by the things of this world, to some extent.

muso,

Do you believe that being exposed to the views of those who post on OzPol would be a good [beneficial] influence upon a personality like myself ?








+++

I remember that a long time ago, you did post that you expressed a fear, for a person like myself, that i may loose my faith, by being exposed to some of the hard headed views that confronted me, here on OzPol.

Personally i do find my interactions here sometimes 'challenging'.

And i believe that to some extent, many of the views i encounter here, do have a bad [a deleterious] influence upon me [upon my soul.    but not upon my spirit.     not upon the spirit which influences me.   :D     ;D  ].

But i'm always up for an 'argument' [pov] that challenges my own pov.

And i can't imagine that anyone here could ever 'turn' me.     ;)




Again, i have no 'proof'.

There is no proof.

But, even if Columbus had returned from the 'New World' with no physical evidence of its existence, no one could ever have ever robbed Columbus of what he had seen and come to understand.

And i have been on a journey [along with many others] [while others have remained at 'home'].

I have been to a 'far away' land.



I leapt across a chasm.

I have imagined,    ....that there is a God.

;)

Yadda wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2012 at 11:33pm:

newtown_grafitti wrote on Dec 22nd, 2012 at 10:54pm: Yadda, That's not my understanding of Islam. Muslims generally seem happy in Turkey, Malaysia and the world's largest Islamic nation, Indonesia. Please explain how you claim to know all that. Google; Turkey's treatment of religious minorities Google; Malaysia's treatment of religious minorities Google; Indonesia's treatment of religious minorities And some recent evidences of NOT pluralistic, and NOT tolerant, ....Malaysia Indonesia, and Turkey. n.b.       LGBT = = Lesbians, Gays, Bisexuals and Transsexuals    "Malaysia's Prime Minister: LGBTs, liberalism, and pluralism are enemies of Islam" "Last Malaysian Hindu temple in central Kuala Lumpur condemned, given five days to vacate" "Malaysian temple condemned, temple staff and devotees given 15 minutes to leave" "Malaysian government views LGBT community as a 'spreading problem' to be stopped" "Malaysian deputy prime minister: Islam not compatible with freedom, liberal thought" "Yet another Malaysian non-Muslim house of worship demolished" "Malaysian state holding seminar on "threat of Christianity" " "A message from Malaysia's king: "Muslims need to emulate Prophet Muhammad" " n.b.      Ahmadiyah & Shi'ites in Indonesia = = a wrong 'kind' of moslem = = an infidel "Indonesian President at UN calls for legally binding Sharia blasphemy law criminalizing criticism of Islam" "Indonesia: Catholic schools threatened with closure for not teaching Islam" "Indonesia: Sunni Muslim preachers incited murder of Shi'ites" "Indonesia: Ahmadiyah forced to apologize after being brutalized by Muslim mob" "Modern, moderate Indonesia: Shi'ite cleric convicted of blasphemy, sentenced to two years in prison" "Indonesia: Muslim mob attacks Ahmadiyya community, injuring four" "Turkey's Erdogan: "Islamophobia" should be recognized as a crime against humanity" "Turkish Minister halts military band to allow crowd to chant "Allahu akbar"" "Turkish government ordered 2007 torture and murder of Christian publishers" "Turkish Islamic supremacists bar woman from public bus: "We would sin if you get on this bus, you are causing us to sin"" "Turkey: New law requires Islamic prayer rooms in all shopping malls, movie theaters, and other public spaces such as theaters and operas" "Turkey: Internationally renowned pianist charged with insulting Islam" "Turkey: Muslim mobs attacking Christian clerics" http://www.jihadwatch.org/malaysia/ http://www.jihadwatch.org/indonesia/ http://www.jihadwatch.org/turkey/ +++ more from my archive.... 16 May 2006 Pressure on multi-faith Malaysia Malaysia is considering its multi-cultural credentials after a crowd of Muslims on Sunday broke up a meeting called to defend the rights of religious minorities. ...."I'm becoming an alien in Malaysia, in my own country," says Dr Jacob George. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4965580.stm Destruction of Non-Muslim Worship Centers Riles Faith Minorities in Malaysia By Sean Yoong for AP: April 01, 2007 PUTRAJAYA, Malaysia - The cavernous pink Putra Mosque with its soaring minaret is one of the most commanding sights and popular tourist photo backdrops in the new city of Putrajaya. A house of worship for thousands of Muslims in the 8-year-old administrative capital of Malaysia, it is a showcase of the nation's dominant faith  Islam. But the mosque also highlights the fact that Putrajaya doesn't have a single church or temple  a fact that minority Buddhists, Hindus and Christians see as one example of the second-class treatment other faiths get in this Muslim-majority country. http://christianpost.com/article/20070330/destruction-of-non-muslim-worship-centers-riles-faith-minorities-in-malaysia.htm Church demolished in Muslim-run state [Malaysia] June 19 2007 Kuala Lumpur - Authorities have demolished a church in a Muslim-ruled state in northeast Malaysia, sparking anger among the indigenous people who say they own the property.... http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=126&art_id=nw20070619141302153C420344 THOSE LINKS MAY BE DEAD NOW.

Obviously they arent the minorities there.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Dec 27^th, 2012 at 4:08am:

Obviously they arent the minorities there. SOB

And there you go, once again SPOT.

Posting on OzPol, but saying absolutely nothing.




SPOT,

'They', are who ?

And 'there', is where ?

And your argument is, what ?






SPOT, once again you prove, to all, that you have no ability to express an opinion, about anything.

Your 'function' here on OzPol is simply being an indistinct, irrelevant, 'reactive', 'bot', who is wasting storage bytes on FD's server.



SPOT,

Breathe in.

There, you managed to do something useful.

Maybe.

Yadda wrote on Dec 27^th, 2012 at 2:01am:

Yadda wrote on Dec 27th, 2012 at 12:32am: .....in every waking moment in this body, i am influenced by the things of this world, to some extent. muso, Do you believe that being exposed to the views of those who post on OzPol would be a good [beneficial] influence upon a personality like myself ? +++ I remember that a long time ago, you did post that you expressed a fear, for a person like myself, that i may loose my faith, by being exposed to some of the hard headed views that confronted me, here on OzPol. Personally i do find my interactions here sometimes 'challenging'. And i believe that to some extent, many of the views i encounter here, do have a bad [a deleterious] influence upon me [upon my soul.    but not upon my spirit.     not upon the spirit which influences me.   :D     ;D  ]. But i'm always up for an 'argument' [pov] that challenges my own pov. And i can't imagine that anyone here could ever 'turn' me.     ;)

Well that's cool. I wouldn't want you to lose your faith. From a selfish PoV, I enjoy talking with people who have different views from myself.

A lot of posters on OzPolitic would benefit from doing just that.

You know, I heard something quite funny on the radio on the way home. There was a Bangladeshi living in London. Some person unknown to him on the underground asked him "Why do you people all hate us so much?"

He replied "We don't". He explained that probably 20 years ago "you people" would have meant Pakistanis or Indians, but from 911 onwards, it meant Muslims.  He added "By the way, I'm an Atheist, but that wouldn't have meant anything to him (the guy who asked him the question".

It makes you think

Yadda wrote on Dec 27^th, 2012 at 8:24am:

Your 'function' here on OzPol is simply being an indistinct, irrelevant, 'reactive', 'bot', who is wasting storage bytes on FD's server. SPOT, Breathe in. There, you managed to do something useful. Maybe.

Does the word "mascot" have any bearing here?  ;D

this  is problematic...

I mean we have Yadda
who cannot conceive of a world without God.

Every waking breathe and exhalation worships his God.

He has bolstered his 'worldview' 
(...oh there is a much better German word to describe it... Gestalt..?  no  ..another word...hmmm ???  Zeitgeist ?) ..anyway


With scholastic study of religious texts,  and finds comfort in the truths he finds.
He is purposeful, resolute, and tenacious.

He spreads the 'Word' at every opportunity....  but he doesn't

UNDERSTAND 

he is alone in his faith... it is particular..to him. 
As is all faith....
something 'individual' and specific to those who hold it to themselves....

he wants to share this understanding of his,   BUT he will never truly succeed... because faith is a purely individual thing.

No amount of talk, of quotes, of sharing ,  will make another person understand his 'view'.
Although.... the desire to do so ..perhaps explains the popularity of TV Evangelists!! :-? :-?

Each individual human makes their own decisions and the continued proselytising by Yadda gains  NO FAVOR  here. 

  Religious views lost their credibility when 'churches'  began their Rule. 
I'm talking the Western religious here.  The BIBLE in other words.  When the faithful followers of Jesus Christ ignored and defied the Commandments of Yahweh.God.... His Father....that was it for Christians,, as far as I'm concerned. Of course I wasn't around then  .....

OF COURSE,  I see this NOW, having spent some time over the yrs considering this most complex and confounded of human activity... religious faith.
Never having been baptised,  or whatever,  I have no early conditioning to overide. I had free choice in religious matters, even as a young child.

IT NEVER MADE ANY SENSE TO ME.
IT still makes no sense to me,  and Yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda, 
you  need to get a life.

Yadda wrote on Dec 27^th, 2012 at 8:24am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Dec 27th, 2012 at 4:08am: Obviously they arent the minorities there. SOB And there you go, once again SPOT. Posting on OzPol, but saying absolutely nothing. SPOT, 'They', are who ? And 'there', is where ? And your argument is, what ? SPOT, once again you prove, to all, that you have no ability to express an opinion, about anything. Your 'function' here on OzPol is simply being an indistinct, irrelevant, 'reactive', 'bot', who is wasting storage bytes on FD's server. SPOT, Breathe in. There, you managed to do something useful. Maybe.

you try to prove that they arent happy in thier own country by saying they dont treat minorities well. Well they arent the minorities and we dont treat minorities that well either.

Of course rather than address this you resort to the usual attempts @ personal abuse.

SOB

muso wrote on Dec 27^th, 2012 at 7:15pm:

Yadda wrote on Dec 27th, 2012 at 8:24am: Your 'function' here on OzPol is simply being an indistinct, irrelevant, 'reactive', 'bot', who is wasting storage bytes on FD's server. SPOT, Breathe in. There, you managed to do something useful. Maybe. Does the word "mascot" have any bearing here?  ;D

Whats the matter muso do you disagree with me too?

SOB

Emma wrote on Dec 28^th, 2012 at 3:14am:

yadda yadda yadda yadda....   ....Religious views lost their credibility when 'churches'  began their Rule.  I'm talking the Western religious here.  The BIBLE in other words.  When the faithful followers of Jesus Christ ignored and defied the Commandments of Yahweh.God.... His Father....that was it for Christians,, as far as I'm concerned. Of course I wasn't around then  ..... OF COURSE,  I see this NOW, having spent some time over the yrs considering this most complex and confounded of human activity... religious faith. Never having been baptised,  or whatever, I have no early conditioning to overide. I had free choice in religious matters, even as a young child. IT NEVER MADE ANY SENSE TO ME. IT still makes no sense to me,  and Yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda,  you  need to get a life.

Emma Peel,

I have no early [religious] conditioning to override.      [....the only early [religious] 'conditioning' i received was singing hymns every morning, at primary school morning assembly.     which i remember as something which i did not regard as an imposition.    i enjoyed it.]

"I had free choice in religious matters, even as a young child."

Me too.

My family 'religious' background is nominally 'Anglican', and i attended a state primary school.

I was never compelled [or even encouraged] to go to church on Sunday, and i never did.    [and i felt no desire to go to church]

Though i remember, that i did believe in angels [protective spirits] from a very early age.   [...though at that time i had no strong belief in a personal God]

And i have a very distinct memory [of myself as a young child, 7-8?, ] i was standing in my primary school yard, and of having a strong sense [or belief?] that this life [too], was very much an experience of, 'going to school'.     [  <---- i have 'always' sort of 'known' that.  even when i wasn't 'religious', and, even before i was a bible reader]


p.s.
I have a life.

It has been difficult at times, and challenging.

I was in state care when i started school, then with foster parents, then later, back with one of my parents [by about 6-7].

But i have no cause to hate 'religion' or God.

Life is, what life is.

Life has taught me [sometimes harshly] that it is in my own best interest, to seek after good choices, rather than accept [easy] poor choices.

Is that a bad philosophy ?

[If there is a God,] should i hate God, because my life has been sometimes difficult ?






When i was about 18 years old, i intentionally prepared to, and i very nearly did purposely end my life [because i felt overwhelmed and alone at that time].

It must have been about then that i picked up and started reading the Gideons NT bible that we had all been given in school.     [...because i was looking for 'answers'.]





+++

1 Corinthians 1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Dec 28^th, 2012 at 4:08am:

muso wrote on Dec 27th, 2012 at 7:15pm: Yadda wrote on Dec 27th, 2012 at 8:24am: Your 'function' here on OzPol is simply being an indistinct, irrelevant, 'reactive', 'bot', who is wasting storage bytes on FD's server. SPOT, Breathe in. There, you managed to do something useful. Maybe. Does the word "mascot" have any bearing here?  ;D Whats the matter muso do you disagree with me too? SOB

I've no idea if you breathed in or not.

..............'But i have no cause to hate 'religion' or God.

Life is, what life is.

Life has taught me [sometimes harshly] that it is in my own best interest, to seek after good choices, rather than accept [easy] poor choices.

Is that a bad philosophy ?

[If there is a God,] should i hate God, because my life has been sometimes difficult ?...........'  - YADDA

Well thanks for that Yadda.  I do understand  what you are saying in the entirety of your post,  and thats fine with me... I didn't have the greatest childhood either, ..but I chose another path in life..thats all.

I don't hate God..... how does one hate something that doesn't exist.?
IMO ,  and like I said - it is a personal thing...

I can't even say I hate religion, or religious...  although I think the world would be better without them,, they are...  Life is what Life is.

I don't go around actively preaching atheism however,  and we all know what your views are  regarding religion, more or less..  :) ;)
we have heard you... you are not preaching to people that really want to listen or should I say ''read" religious material everytime you enter a discussion.  OK I speak for myself only....

Can you view life through any other prism?
There is LOTS to SEE.

Peace be with you.
May you find harmony...   :) :) :) :-* :-*

We all want, one way or another, what they used to call the 'brotherhood of man'. But that now sounds so archaic as to be unutterable. It is unutterable, except inside churches, because that's what religion is, the seeking after the final redemption of the brotherhood of man.

We can't utter it but we still all want it, one way or another, the brotherhood of man.





The problem with the asylum seekers is that people do not believe that most of them are genuine (I do not believe that most of them are genuine). So they are rejected because they are seen as exploiters of people's good will, of people's sense of obligation and desire for the brotherhood of man. That a lot of them are Muslims who expressly disdain the brotherhood of man doesn't help.

Soren wrote on Dec 29^th, 2012 at 6:15pm:

The problem with the asylum seekers is that people do not believe that most of them are genuine (I do not believe that most of them are genuine). So they are rejected because they are seen as exploiters of people's good will, of people's sense of obligation and desire for the brotherhood of man. That a lot of them are Muslims who expressly disdain the brotherhood of man doesn't help.

Well I understand that virtually all Sri Lankan boat people are rejected, and that they are a growing proportion. Very few of them are Muslim. They tend to be Hindu. (Tamils)

I'm not entirely sure about the others but there are some persecuted minorities among the Afghans and the Iraqis at least. .

and no doubt very soon we will find people from Myanmar risking their lives for a chance / ..at life.!!

They will also be treated in the same manner.
This is a sad sad thing.

Brotherhood of Man.???
Yep,  thats been real good for the World, hasn't it?

Seems that many of the Sri Lankans arriving here, have been conned by the people smugglers, into thinking that Australia offers them good work..  IE  they are not genuine refugees, they are people who come here looking to make money.  Now no-one could blame them really,  BUT, that means they are not 'refugees'  as such...   unlike many many people who arrive here by boat. That is substantiated by the number of people, who eventually, are granted immigration rights.
Sad it is also, that by then many are so damaged by the treatment they have endured, at our hands, that they can no longer participate in their new country,  rather they become victims, and dependants of the State.

No, The Sri Lankans that are returned are just like the ones that fly in. and stay illegally,  not legitimate.  They bought into a big con, and are all now the worse off by mucho money.

Not genuine refugees, in other words. Frankly  I fail to see how one's religious beliefs, have any bearing at all, on the refugee status.....
...but then my opinions aren't driven by fear.

perhaps I should include an addendum.  :( :)

My very dearest and oldest friend, who has stood by me thru thick and thin..
is afraid.
She is so concerned by the influx of 'other' , particularly Moslems,  that she told me she has had nightmares about her sons being stood up against a wall, and executed. :( :(


She is  the smartest, most caring person I have ever known,  and it really hurts and concerns me to see what an impact this media sh*tstorm .(mainly) has had  on her deepest instincts.

This whole thing we are facing is so much more than the surface would suggest...  what I mean is.... it shows us all really... what a total clusterfck
WE have made of the life of our species ... Humans with so much potential....  remain rolling in the blood of our enemies, and their children.!!!!!!!!!

Of course, Climate change is another. I think we will find that our great Mother Earth, has had enough of us. And soon,  relatively ... we will disappear...... a failed branch of life on Earth. :(

Happy New Year...

Emma wrote on Dec 29^th, 2012 at 11:58pm:

perhaps I should include an addendum.  :( :) My very dearest and oldest friend, who has stood by me thru thick and thin.. is afraid. She is so concerned by the influx of 'other' , particularly Moslems,  that she told me she has had nightmares about her sons being stood up against a wall, and executed. :( :( She is  the smartest, most caring person I have ever known,  and it really hurts and concerns me to see what an impact this media sh*tstorm .(mainly) has had  on her deepest instincts. This whole thing we are facing is so much more than the surface would suggest...  what I mean is.... it shows us all really... what a total clusterfck WE have made of the life of our species ... Humans with so much potential....  remain rolling in the blood of our enemies, and their children.!!!!!!!!! Of course, Climate change is another. I think we will find that our great Mother Earth, has had enough of us. And soon,  relatively ... we will disappear...... a failed branch of life on Earth. :( Happy New Year...

Yes. It's a crazy situation. People are demonised just because of their religion. It's not the first time it has happened. Even in Australia, the Catholics were in teh same position 50 years ago.

Of course, a small minority of people will always take advantage of people because of their religions, and in the past, many people have followed the charge into war behind the cross or the crescent moon.

Boat people, some of whom are genuine refugees are demonised as Muslim terrorists, and we don't have a single politician who is prepared to stand up against populist hypocrisy. Muslims are the new "Reds under the bed", and some people are gullible enough to fall for that. The same principle of BS baffles brains applies to Climate Change.   

I have friends throughout the world of many different worldviews and religions. They are just people like anybody else, trying to eke out a life for themselves. 

muso wrote on Dec 30^th, 2012 at 5:40am:

Emma wrote on Dec 29th, 2012 at 11:58pm: perhaps I should include an addendum.  :( :) My very dearest and oldest friend, who has stood by me thru thick and thin.. is afraid. She is so concerned by the influx of 'other' , particularly Moslems,  that she told me she has had nightmares about her sons being stood up against a wall, and executed. :( :( She is  the smartest, most caring person I have ever known,  and it really hurts and concerns me to see what an impact this media sh*tstorm .(mainly) has had  on her deepest instincts. This whole thing we are facing is so much more than the surface would suggest...  what I mean is.... it shows us all really... what a total clusterfck WE have made of the life of our species ... Humans with so much potential....  remain rolling in the blood of our enemies, and their children.!!!!!!!!! Of course, Climate change is another. I think we will find that our great Mother Earth, has had enough of us. And soon,  relatively ... we will disappear...... a failed branch of life on Earth. :( Happy New Year... Yes. It's a crazy situation. People are demonised just because of their religion. It's not the first time it has happened. Even in Australia, the Catholics were in teh same position 50 years ago. Of course, a small minority of people will always take advantage of people because of their religions, and in the past, many people have followed the charge into war behind the cross or the crescent moon. Boat people, some of whom are genuine refugees are demonised as Muslim terrorists, and we don't have a single politician who is prepared to stand up against populist hypocrisy. Muslims are the new "Reds under the bed", and some people are gullible enough to fall for that. The same principle of BS baffles brains applies to Climate Change.    I have friends throughout the world of many different worldviews and religions. They are just people like anybody else, trying to eke out a life for themselves.

2 very good posts. I enjoyed both thank you.

The majority of peope still do not know that the majority of assylum seekers are not Muslim

muso wrote on Dec 30^th, 2012 at 5:40am:

Yes. It's a crazy situation. People are demonised just because of their religion. It's not the first time it has happened. Even in Australia, the Catholics were in teh same position 50 years ago.

This is a bit more than silly.

The Muslims demonise themselves by their behaviour. No Catholic (or Sikh or Buddhist or Jew or baptist or Pentecostal, etc, etc), now or 50 years ago, has gone around with a placard about beheading those who dis the pope or plotted jihad or kicked sand in lifesavers' faces and generally behaved like the Muslims.

It is a totally stupid reflex, cultivated by a lot of noice people, to witness the daily news for the past 20-30 years (not to mention the past 1000) and maintain that somehow the Muslims are not a different category.

Too right, S.

I mean, the guy [muso] won't even admit that >> mainstream << ISLAM [in its own foundation texts], cultivates violence against those who reject ISLAM.

How 'tolerant' is that [...that >> mainstream << ISLAM, cultivates and encourages moslem violence and enmity [i.e. hatred] against those who reject ISLAM.] ?



ISLAM is a violent, fascist philosophy, that is the reality - and it is the truth.

Yet muso [and many other otherwise intelligent people] continue with the absurd proposition that the problem [with ISLAM] is only with a tiny minority of extremists.

That proposition is patently false.

Yet many people like muso will not acknowledge that fact.






muso,

Am i lying, about ISLAM ?

Do you truly believe, that i am i 'misrepresenting' what ISLAM encourages, in its followers ?





+++

This, is what >> mainstream << ISLAM cultivates, in its followers   ---->


"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11


"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123


"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

Yadda wrote on Dec 30^th, 2012 at 10:11pm:

muso, Am i lying, about ISLAM ? Do you truly believe, that i am i 'misrepresenting' what ISLAM encourages, in its followers ?

muso,

Many times here on OzPol, i have been accused of misrepresenting moslems and ISLAM.
[...despite the many evidences i have provided supporting my assessment/opinion.]

And people such as yourself would seem to accept that accusation of my misrepresenting of ISLAM and moslem intent ?



But, at the same time, people such as yourself, seem to view as it being inconceivable that it could be moslems, who are guilty of misrepresenting ISLAM, to those who are not moslems.

Q.
Why that dichotomy of thought ?

A.
There is a specific reason why you are following that path [....of mentally allowing one possibility [#1], but dismissing out of hand another possibility [#2], even though the 2nd possibility is supported by reasoned argument and many evidences].





+++

There is always a specific reason why a person follows a specific path.

Am i mistaken, muso ?       ;)

muso wrote on Dec 30^th, 2012 at 5:40am:

Yes. It's a crazy situation. People are demonised just because of their religion. It's not the first time it has happened.

KUALA LUMPUR, Dec 30 — Perak Mufti Tan Sri Harussani Zakaria today told non-Muslims who insist on using the word “Allah” to refer to their Gods to convert to Islam if they refused to accept that the word belongs only to Muslims.

The controversial cleric also accused the Christians community of intentionally provoking Muslims by pressing on with their demand to use “Allah” in their holy book.

“The matter is already in the (Islamic) enactments of every state, they’re provoking Muslims on purpose so Muslims will melatah (over-react),” Harussani  told The Malaysian Insider here.
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/embrace-islam-if-you-want-to-use-allah-harussani-tells-non-muslims

Non-muslims MAKE Muslims over-react, don't you know. Muslims are babies who cannot be held responsible for things like self-control. They are emotionally immature, insh'allah (can  say that?) You must respect that, dogs.

The Bangladeshi atheist in London - he could not have said that out loud in Dhakka, that he is an atheist.

It makes you think. And having thought, you realise that more Islam means less freedom.

And having realised, you chose whether you want to support freedom or Islam because you can't do both.

But not wishing to seem intolerant, you can pretend to do both (knowing full well that you are  hypocrite for the sake of appearing tolerant).

This is the sort of hypocrisy Nanny Roxon would like to legislate, btw.

Asylum Seekers Philosophy:

Seek a safe life for yourself and family and you may be rewarded with an environment where your children can flourish.

Asop.

Asylum Seekers Philosophy:


Always carry some spare plugs for the boat.

That's good advice Dnarever..

Just can't seem to understand why the words Refugees, boat people... keep bringing up the  same old flotsam and jetsam... you know ;D
Soren ... Yadda.... Soren....Yadda.....Soren.....Yadda....who seem to think the word refugee = evil Muslim extremist....  makes ya wonder yeah??

And I'll substitute BLAH BLAH BLAH for YADDA, from now on..... 
at least thats more Oz then the yank vernacular  of Yadda ......Yadda ....Yadda.

:)

Emma wrote on Dec 31^st, 2012 at 9:13pm:

Just can't seem to understand why the words Refugees, boat people... keep bringing up the  same old flotsam and jetsam... you know ;D Soren ... Yadda.... Soren....Yadda.....Soren.....Yadda....who seem to think the word refugee = evil Muslim extremist....  makes ya wonder yeah??

There is no such thing as a 'moslem extremist'.

'A moslem', is a sufficient term.




+++

Dictionary;
refugee = = a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster.




A FEW Q's...

If a moslem refugee needs to leave their country and find sanctuary, why does a moslem refugee need to travel half way around the world to find sanctuary ?

Why so, when there are many other moslem countries [Dar al-Islam - - 'The land(s) of Peace'] surrounding his country of origin ?

Why are moslem countries so unattractive to moslems, as places of sanctuary ?

Are moslem host countries so inhospitable to their fellow moslems ?

Why are moslem refugees unwelcome in potential moslem host countries ?

And why are infidel jurisdiction countries so attractive to moslems ?            [....when moslems universally declare that infidel jurisdictions are places of injustice, which they, moslems, claim that they despise ?]

And why does a moslem who has found sanctuary in another moslem country [e.g. Indonesia] need to leave that country, illegally ?






Moslem 'refugees' are patently, not coming to countries like Australia, because they need to seek refuge and sanctuary.

Patently not, because moslem refugees never travel, to Australia [and other 1st world countries], directly from their home country, but moslems always travel through a number of 3rd countries, before eventually embarking for Australian shores.

In some cases moslems will spend years, living within a 3rd country, and then leave that sanctuary, to travel to an infidel jurisdiction country.



Moslem 'refugees' are self declared moslems [i.e. they are people who have chosen to maintain their 'embrace' of a dangerous and violent philosophy, not unlike Nazism.     Google; similarity between islam and nazism]

The truth is that ISLAM is an evil philosophy, which, imo, creates a mental pathology [a 'sickness'] in the psyche of those human beings who choose to embrace it.     [n.b. moslems still have the 'wit' seek to escape the injustice and violence which ISLAM produces, but, after they escape its clutches, moslems cannot find it in themselves to renounce ISLAM.    Isaiah 26:10]

And no moslem who deeply embraces ISLAM can recognise or will acknowledge that truth - that ISLAM produces a mental pathology in the human psyche.

IMO, such people, i.e. 'unrepentant' moslems, should not be accepted as 'refugees' into countries like Australia.

---

Yadda wrote on Dec 31^st, 2012 at 11:55pm:

There is no such thing as a 'moslem extremist'. 'A moslem', is a sufficient term.

FOR EXAMPLE; Sayyid Qutb [below] was not a 'moslem extremist'.

Sayyid Qutb was a mainstream moslem academic.


Quote:

"....the death of those who are killed for the cause of God gives more impetus to the cause, which continues to thrive on their blood."

ISLAMIC scholar, Sayyid Qutb, .......A moslem, promoting, justifying, ISLAM's murder of all humanity if necessary, to further the moslem Allah's cause.




Quote:

"Sayyid Qutb was an Egyptian author, educator, Islamist theorist, poet, and the leading member of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood in the 1950s and '60s."

I would never refer to such a person, as a 'moslem extremist'.
/sarc off

Soren wrote on Dec 31^st, 2012 at 12:27pm:

The Bangladeshi atheist in London - he could not have said that out loud in Dhakka, that he is an atheist. It makes you think. And having thought, you realise that more Islam means less freedom. And having realised, you chose whether you want to support freedom or Islam because you can't do both. But not wishing to seem intolerant, you can pretend to do both (knowing full well that you are  hypocrite for the sake of appearing tolerant). This is the sort of hypocrisy Nanny Roxon would like to legislate, btw.

You could say the same thing about Southern Baptists. Make it known that you're an atheist in many Southern USA towns and see what it does to your job prospects. Many religions come packaged with less freedom. If we had a country of 90% born again Christians, it would be a very scary place to live.  I don't support Islam any more than I support Christianity, but I definitely support freedom of religion.

By the way:

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/782/the_rise_of_atheism_in_pakistan

OK, it's a different country, but It doesn't seem to gel with your comment on the repression of atheists.

muso wrote on Jan 1^st, 2013 at 9:03am:

......I don't support Islam any more than I support Christianity, but I definitely support freedom of religion. By the way: http://www.thecommentator.com/article/782/the_rise_of_atheism_in_pakistan

muso,

A very interesting article!
Thanks.i

muso......

Quote:

OK, it's a different country, but It doesn't seem to gel with your comment on the repression of atheists.

muso,

But, the statements of Hazrat Nakhuda in the article, don't nearly support your assertion, re Pakistan on the NON repression of atheists.


Quote:

G: How open are you about your view and your activities in Pakistan? HN: Within my circle of friends I am very open. My family knows I don’t believe in God but they don’t know that I am in a leading role in such an organization. Obviously I use a pseudonym that alone should tell you how open I can be. G: Would you say Atheism is on the increase in Pakistan? HN: It is on the rise. Not as much as I hoped to but it is on the rise. There is a huge amount of closet atheists in Pakistan. For every member of the organization I get an email from five others telling me that they want to join but can’t. ...... G: What are your plans for the future? HN: Right now most Pakistanis aren’t even aware that there is an option to not believe in God; they don’t question the existence of God and generally don’t believe that Atheists exist. What is more, according to a Gallup poll, 78 percent of Pakistanis believe that a person who leaves Islam should be killed. And finally, Pakistan has very strict blasphemy laws. If I get to change these three things in my life time, I would die a happy man.

hey blahblahblah .....this is about Asylum Seekers philosophy.

Now that can have at least two very different interpretations...

the 'philosophy ' held by Asylum Seekers... ::)
..which doesn't make sense to me..... as one would not exist.....

or

the 'philosophy' which dictates how Asylum seekers are managed in Australia , for example. 

Blahblahblah  ...you seem to be addressing the first, ludicrous interp.. 
I don't think you are able to reason with any clarity at all.... most definitely not when it comes to Moslems, and it's really tiresome.  YAWN.

NO offense Dnarever 
;)

Emma wrote on Jan 1^st, 2013 at 9:09pm:

hey blahblahblah .....this is about Asylum Seekers philosophy. Now that can have at least two very different interpretations... the 'philosophy ' held by Asylum Seekers... ::) ..which doesn't make sense to me..... as one would not exist..... or the 'philosophy' which dictates how Asylum seekers are managed in Australia , for example.  Blahblahblah  ...you seem to be addressing the first, ludicrous interp..  I don't think you are able to reason with any clarity at all.... most definitely not when it comes to Moslems, and it's really tiresome.  YAWN. NO offense Dnarever  ;)

I agree with Kat (opps, I meant Emma, sorry) , it does get tiresome reading what these two put up over and over again ...  especially when you consider a large portion of asylum seekers are escaping from muslim countries because they subscribe to OTHER religions ... trying to make out all asylum seekers are muslim terrorists shows a complete lack of understanding of the real issues.

thats OK JS.
Kat is pretty smart IMO, so I don't have a problem with your slip. :)