Quote:

Another Liberal Party frontbencher who has trouble winning an argument without a visit to Bullshit Mountain is Malcolm Turnbull, says Vic Rollison.

http://www.independentaustralia.net/Wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/HockeyTurnbullAbbott.png
More residents of Bullshit Mountain.


Quote:

WHEN YOU’RE HAVING a debate with someone and they start to abandon facts, you can almost guarantee you’re right. Or if they respond to your evidence with a personal insult, you can also be fairly assured that you are, in fact, correct. This is never more so than in political debate. It seems that the Liberal Party and their supporters have abandoned any semblance of civilised discussion, and are instead invoking the ‘bullshit my way through this’ technique whenever they are questioned. We’ve seen this method used regularly by Shadow Treasurer, Joe Hockey, when talking down the government’s economic credibility. An example of this is Hockey saying that the Australian economy is ‘flat-lining’. When asked about the use of the words ‘flat-lining’ by Barrie Cassidy on Insiders, Hockey blustered his way through a very odd explanation of how below-trend growth could possibly be called ‘flat-lining’. Cassidy, to his credit, did call Hockey out on his blatant mistruth, and also pointed out that Abbott too had been dishonest about the Australian economy by saying that it wasn’t growing. But Hockey and Abbott couldn’t care less that what they say is in complete denial of facts. The Australian economy has, as Cassidy pointed out, been growing continuously for 21 years. Not flat-lining at all. http://youtu.be/wHXhBEW0hK0 Another Liberal front-bencher who has trouble winning an argument without a visit to Bullshit Mountain is Malcolm Turnbull. A few days ago, Turnbull got up on his moral high-horse at the Woodford Folk Festival and criticized the declining standard of debate in politics. He rightfully included himself in the problem, and went on to say politicians are increasingly being: “…drawn into more and more negativity, more and more of the game of politics… as opposed to the responsibility of dealing with the big issues of our time.” It’s a very fair point to make. He then says that due to the ‘instantaneous news cycle’, it has “…never been easier to get away with telling lies.” Hockey and Abbott are great examples of this. In our current media environment, most of the time politicians can pretty much say whatever they like and can be confident they’ll get away with it. Turnbull also said: “…it’s never been easier to get away with the glib one liner.” A glib one liner, hey? Now where might I find an example of someone using a glib one liner to end a debate that they are obviously losing? How about Turnbull’s effort on Twitter the day after his Woodford appearance? http://youtu.be/VTOtpzMelyI Turnbull is quite rare amongst his political colleagues on Twitter in that he actually does engage and respond when asked questions about policy. ‪On this occasion, some Twitter users, including @markjs1, were having a discussion with Turnbull about his criticisms of the National Broadband Network (NBN). It’s clearly been Abbott’s plan for Turnbull, as Shadow Minister for Communications and Broadband, to destroy the government’s NBN fibre to the premises (FTTP) policy and promote the opposition’s alternative fibre to the node broadband plans. After a few technical back and forths, about which broadband infrastructure was better for the country, Turnbull delivered this Tweet: ‘I argue against FTTP where it is not cost effective. Where it can be deployed quickly and relatively cheaply then it is worth doing.’ To which @markjs1 responded: ‘NBN IS ‘cost effective” …& U know it …will return 7.1% on money borrowed at 3% + a hugely valuable asset.’ Turnbull then responded: ‘@markjs1 so if you believe that I guess you believe Santa brought you your presents on a sleigh with reindeers, right?’ Up to this point, Turnbull had been holding his own in the discussion by showing that he understood the technical differences between his proposal and the government’s NBN and he was doing a good job of explaining his views. But, when faced with a refutation of his comment about the NBN’s ‘cost effectiveness’, he chose not to engage as an adult, and instead pulled out a ‘glib one liner’ — and one which left the Twitter audience none the wiser about what he really thought about the cost effectiveness of the NBN.

continue

http://www.independentaustralia.net/Wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/TurnbullNBN.png

Quote:

Argument lost. When the Liberal Opposition frontbench behave in this way, it is no wonder that their supporters feel they too can argue against facts, and use their own, or repeated, mistruths in political discussions. A recent comment on my blog is a great illustration of this type of empty rhetoric. ‘The usual rantings of the entitlement society left wing. Gillard is the worst PM since Whitlam, and her failed policies have increased Australia’s debt by many billions. Pink bats, NBN, illegals arriving by the boatload, the lies of the global warming scam – all propped up by the marxist greens. Hardly a success.’ It’s really difficult to respond to a comment like this. When someone is in complete denial of facts, and is living on Bullshit Mountain, there’s no point trying to have a respectful discussion with them. When the Leader of the Opposition is constantly calling asylum seekers ‘illegals’; when the Shadow Treasurer paints the best performing economy in the developed world as a debt catastrophe; and when climate change deniers are repeatedly given mainstream media credibility, it’s no wonder Liberal supporters feel justified in living in a deluded fact-free world. I should note that I am indebted to John Stewart for locating Bullshit Mountain for me on the political map. It’s an interesting geographical feature — found in Australia as well as the United States. Watch the video

http://www.independentaustralia.net/2012/politics/living-on-bullshit-mountain/

Independent Australia. Lol.
Place for nut cases and lunatics.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 31^st, 2012 at 4:29am:

Independent Australia. Lol. Place for nut cases and lunatics.

As you say about anything non-murdoch i expect.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Dec 31^st, 2012 at 5:11am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 31st, 2012 at 4:29am: Independent Australia. Lol. Place for nut cases and lunatics. As you say about anything non-murdoch i expect. SOB

As you lot say about murdoch, so eat on your own shi

So you are saying these people are nut cases and lunatics andrei

• Mark Aldridge
  
• Denise Allen
  
• Bill Angus
  
• Alan Austin
  
• Tony Backhouse
  
• Tim Badrick
  
• Paul Bains
  
• Greg Barns
  
• Rev’d Dr Ray Barraclough
  
• Neil Barrett
  
• Mark Batistich
  
• Miriam Bauman
  
• Virginia Becker
  
• Deb Bennett
  
• George Bludger
  
• Wayne Brooks
  
• Madam Butterfly
  
• Kelly Butterworth
  
• Nick Carson
  
• Dan Cass
  
• Barrie Cassidy
  
• Nancy Cato
  
• CDH
  
• Wei Ling Chau
  
• Dr Ted Christie
  
• Dave Clarke
  
• Joseph Cotta
  
• Scot Bill Deller
  
• Professor Paddy Dewan
  
• Dr Mark Diesendorf
  
• David Donovan
  
• Matthew Donovan
  
• Andrew Douglas
  
• Keith Dunstan
  
• Jennifer Elliott
  
• Bob Ellis
  
• Doug Evans
  
• Joan Evatt
  
• Dr Peter Evans
  
• Barry Everingham
  
• Philip Feinstein
  
• Terry Fewtrell
  
• JJ Fiasson
  
• David Flint
  
• Ken Flower
  
• Ruth Forsythe
  
• Dr Ian Freckelton SC
  
• Lynton Freeman
  
• Bob Fritakis
  
• Dr Jone Gaillard
  
• Ross Garrad
  
• Gee
  
• William Gladys
  
• David Glynn Jones
  
• Jai Goulding
  
• Alex Gunther
  
• Jenny Haines
  
• Sandra Hajda
  
• Graham Hardy
  
• Ludwig Heinrich
  
• Adam Henry
  
• Rodger Hills
  
• Kelly Hockley
  
• Lewis Holden
  
• Rob Hutchinson
  
• Louis Irmo
  
• Graham Jackson
  
• Allan Jamieson
  
• Andrew Jennings
  
• Peter Johnstone
  
• Dr Benjamin Thomas Jones
  
• Chris Jones
  
• Associate Professor Evan Jones
  
• Sandi Keane
  
• Major General Michael Keating
  
• Ash Kelso
  
• Andrew Kos
  
• JD Lang
  
• Tess Lawrence
  
• Jed Lea-Henry
  
• Jenny LeComte
  
• Jason Leopold
  
• Rodney E. Lever
  
• Len Liddelow
  
• Angela Long
  
• Harold Lubansky
  
• Dr Hugh McDermott
  
• Peter McGee
  
• Roy McKeen
  
• David McKenna
  
• Simon McMan
  
• Dr Julie Milland
  
• Matthew Mitchell
  
• Dr Brian Moench
  
• Carey Moore
  
• James Moore
  
• Dr Tony Moore
  
• Jordan Nash
  
• Shaun Newman
  
• Matt Norman
  
• Vincent O’Grady
  
• Max O'Oray
  
• Frank O’Shea
  
• Emily Osmond
  
• John Passant
  
• Kim Peart
  
• Dr Mike Pepperday
  
• Henry Pill
  
• William Rivers Pitt
  
• Gervase Poulden
  
• Gregory ‘Binnah’ Pownall
  
• John Pyke
  
• Dick Racey
  
• Graham Readfearn
  
• T.K. Riches
  
• Dr Kay Rollison
  
• Victoria Rollison
  
• Herman Royce
  
• George Said
  
• Ynes Sanz
  
• Carl Scrase
  
• Philip Shaw
  
• Blunt Shovels
  
• John Skene
  
• Graham Smith
  
• Dr RFI Smith
  
• John Smith
  
• Betty Smout
  
• Mike Stuchbery
  
• Luke Sulzberger
  
• Dave Sweeney
  
• Don Tate
  
• Julia Thiemann
  
• Damon Thomas
  
• Lorel Thomas
  
• Peter Thomas
  
• Kane Thornton
  
• Andrew Tiedt
  
• Eugene Tomison
  
• John Turnbull
  
• Jacinda Tutty
  
• Iurgi Urrutia
  
• Dr George Venturini
  
• Robert Vose
  
• Syd Walker
  
• Wil Wallace
  
• John Ward
  
• Professor John Warhurst
  
• Noel Wauchope
  
• Brad Webb
  
• Brigadier Neil Weekes
  
• Reverend Canon Dr Andrew PB White
  
• Peter Wicks
  
• Professor George Williams
  
• Matt Williams
  
• Melinda Wilson
  
• Evan Whitton
  
• Dr Klaas Woldring
  
• Jeffrey Wood
  
• Bec Zajac
  

…. and many others.




http://www.independentaustralia.net/about/ia-contributors/


I know who the nut cases and lunatics are, people that read Murdoch Papers and think that it "Is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth"

The sooner you lefties get rid of white conservatives and replace them all with unemployed boat people the happier you will be, will happen, maybe not in your lifetime but at least you can be pleased that you got the ball rolling  ;)

Innocent bystander wrote on Dec 31^st, 2012 at 7:45am:

The sooner you lefties get rid of white conservatives and replace them all with unemployed boat people the happier you will be, will happen, maybe not in your lifetime but at least you can be pleased that you got the ball rolling  ;)

First paragraph of the article FYI bystander


Quote:

WHEN YOU’RE HAVING a debate with someone and they start to abandon facts, you can almost guarantee you’re right. Or if they respond to your evidence with a personal insult, you can also be fairly assured that you are, in fact, correct.

Innocent bystander wrote on Dec 31^st, 2012 at 7:45am:

The sooner you lefties get rid of white conservatives and replace them all with unemployed boat people the happier you will be, will happen, maybe not in your lifetime but at least you can be pleased that you got the ball rolling  ;)

Typical troll trying to make it all about race

SOB

Its a fact and its already happened in France and Holland, millions of unemployed reffos and white conservatives fleeing the country in droves.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Dec 31^st, 2012 at 7:55am:

Innocent bystander wrote on Dec 31st, 2012 at 7:45am: The sooner you lefties get rid of white conservatives and replace them all with unemployed boat people the happier you will be, will happen, maybe not in your lifetime but at least you can be pleased that you got the ball rolling  ;) Typical troll trying to make it all about race SOB

Replacing Alan Jones with a boatload of reffos seems like a good swap to me.
At least Sydneysiders will feel safer using public toilets with that creepy old white conservative gone.

John S wrote on Dec 31^st, 2012 at 7:33am:

So you are saying these people are nut cases and lunatics andrei Mark Aldridge Denise Allen Bill Angus Alan Austin Tony Backhouse Tim Badrick Paul Bains Greg Barns Rev’d Dr Ray Barraclough Neil Barrett Mark Batistich Miriam Bauman Virginia Becker Deb Bennett George Bludger Wayne Brooks Madam Butterfly Kelly Butterworth Nick Carson Dan Cass Barrie Cassidy Nancy Cato CDH Wei Ling Chau Dr Ted Christie Dave Clarke Joseph Cotta Scot Bill Deller Professor Paddy Dewan Dr Mark Diesendorf David Donovan Matthew Donovan Andrew Douglas Keith Dunstan Jennifer Elliott Bob Ellis Doug Evans Joan Evatt Dr Peter Evans Barry Everingham Philip Feinstein Terry Fewtrell JJ Fiasson David Flint Ken Flower Ruth Forsythe Dr Ian Freckelton SC Lynton Freeman Bob Fritakis Dr Jone Gaillard Ross Garrad Gee William Gladys David Glynn Jones Jai Goulding Alex Gunther Jenny Haines Sandra Hajda Graham Hardy Ludwig Heinrich Adam Henry Rodger Hills Kelly Hockley Lewis Holden Rob Hutchinson Louis Irmo Graham Jackson Allan Jamieson Andrew Jennings Peter Johnstone Dr Benjamin Thomas Jones Chris Jones Associate Professor Evan Jones Sandi Keane Major General Michael Keating Ash Kelso Andrew Kos JD Lang Tess Lawrence Jed Lea-Henry Jenny LeComte Jason Leopold Rodney E. Lever Len Liddelow Angela Long Harold Lubansky Dr Hugh McDermott Peter McGee Roy McKeen David McKenna Simon McMan Dr Julie Milland Matthew Mitchell Dr Brian Moench Carey Moore James Moore Dr Tony Moore Jordan Nash Shaun Newman Matt Norman Vincent O’Grady Max O'Oray Frank O’Shea Emily Osmond John Passant Kim Peart Dr Mike Pepperday Henry Pill William Rivers Pitt Gervase Poulden Gregory ‘Binnah’ Pownall John Pyke Dick Racey Graham Readfearn T.K. Riches Dr Kay Rollison Victoria Rollison Herman Royce George Said Ynes Sanz Carl Scrase Philip Shaw Blunt Shovels John Skene Graham Smith Dr RFI Smith John Smith Betty Smout Mike Stuchbery Luke Sulzberger Dave Sweeney Don Tate Julia Thiemann Damon Thomas Lorel Thomas Peter Thomas Kane Thornton Andrew Tiedt Eugene Tomison John Turnbull Jacinda Tutty Iurgi Urrutia Dr George Venturini Robert Vose Syd Walker Wil Wallace John Ward Professor John Warhurst Noel Wauchope Brad Webb Brigadier Neil Weekes Reverend Canon Dr Andrew PB White Peter Wicks Professor George Williams Matt Williams Melinda Wilson Evan Whitton Dr Klaas Woldring Jeffrey Wood Bec Zajac …. and many others. http://www.independentaustralia.net/about/ia-contributors/ I know who the nut cases and lunatics are, people that read Murdoch Papers and think that it "Is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth"

All that needs to be done is look at the content on the site.

Yep, f#ck jones off, and the hundreds of jobs he has created and replace them all with unemployed boat people, a labor/greens version of paradise, can't believe its not official policy, well I guess it almost is.

Innocent bystander wrote on Dec 31^st, 2012 at 7:45am:

The sooner you lefties get rid of white conservatives and replace them all with unemployed boat people the happier you will be, will happen, maybe not in your lifetime but at least you can be pleased that you got the ball rolling  ;)

:D :D :D :D


the best jokes are always when "the jokes on them"
we'll see how much welfare their new asian masters are willing to pay them :D :D :D :D

PS  another dairy farmer at beaudesert just sold to taiwanese investors. even the eastern europeans wont allow this.  go global socialism,
start building that mud hut wise one :D

aquascoot wrote on Dec 31^st, 2012 at 8:36am:

PS  another dairy farmer at beaudesert just sold to taiwanese investors. even the eastern europeans wont allow this.  go global socialism, start building that mud hut wise one Cheesy

So who are you blaming?

The Government? - Yet every time they want to introduce legislation you go ballistic about nanny states & how the individual should be allowed to do whatever they want?

The Farmer? - With all the whining these guys do over foreign investment it's surprising they haven't learnt all they have to do is say NO.
But the money wins out for the "ever so concerned about our country being sold" Aussie
And I can already here the cries of Commie if he was not allowed to sell to the highest offer if it came from a non Australian.

The Buyer? - I always wonder if we'd be as concerned if it was say the Dutch buying farms.
I think not.

So Innocent_bystander and aquascoot all the following quotes that both of you have posted.


Innocent bystander wrote on Dec 31^st, 2012 at 7:45am:

The sooner you lefties get rid of white conservatives and replace them all with unemployed boat people the happier you will be, will happen, maybe not in your lifetime but at least you can be pleased that you got the ball rolling  ;)

Innocent bystander wrote on Dec 31^st, 2012 at 7:57am:

Its a fact and its already happened in France and Holland, millions of unemployed reffos and white conservatives fleeing the country in droves.

Innocent bystander wrote on Dec 31^st, 2012 at 8:12am:

Yep, f#ck jones off, and the hundreds of jobs he has created and replace them all with unemployed boat people, a labor/greens version of paradise, can't believe its not official policy, well I guess it almost is.

aquascoot wrote on Dec 31^st, 2012 at 8:36am:

:D :D :D :D the best jokes are always when "the jokes on them" we'll see how much welfare their new asian masters are willing to pay them :D :D :D :D PS  another dairy farmer at beaudesert just sold to taiwanese investors. even the eastern europeans wont allow this.  go global socialism, start building that mud hut wise one :D

Did both of you read all that in the Daily Telegraph or the Australian newspapers or did Alan Jones tell both of you.


First paragraph of the opening Post FYI innocent_bystander and aquascoot


Quote:

WHEN YOU’RE HAVING a debate with someone and they start to abandon facts, you can almost guarantee you’re right. Or if they respond to your evidence with a personal insult, you can also be fairly assured that you are, in fact, correct.

Was it little voices in both your head that told you.

If it was voices in your head I feel sorry for both of you.

Here is a couple of web sites that might help you both out

Beyond Blue and  Head Space

double post sorry

wise one  , perhaps unwise one. :D :D

i just wish they would teach economics and the business cycle at school.

so many people think the business cycle works like this..

consumers buy stuff and pay  gst
retail workers work and pay paye tax
the government use the tax to provide services and employ public servants

they think this is a closed loop sustainable system

IT IS SO CHILDISH.

without business , the above is a total ponzi scheme. it has no income (real income) whatsoever.

do you acknowledge this.

anyone who does not acknowledge this as an indisputable fact should receive a lifetime ban ;) ;)

Quote:

WHEN YOU’RE HAVING a debate with someone and they start to abandon facts, you can almost guarantee you’re right. Or if they respond to your evidence with a personal insult, you can also be fairly assured that you are, in fact, correct. This is never more so than in political debate. It seems that the Liberal Party and their supporters have abandoned any semblance of civilised discussion, and are instead invoking the ‘bullshit my way through this’ technique whenever they are questioned.

I read this much then stopped. You know it's going to be a rubbish article when it starts out like: I am the paragon of truth and virtue and all you who oppose are liars and immoral.

Sounds liek the same thing aquascoot just said.

Thing is if the government hadnt sold off all the resources there would be income (PO, electricity, public transport, etc).

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Dec 31^st, 2012 at 10:23am:

Sounds liek the same thing aquascoot just said. Thing is if the government hadnt sold off all the resources there would be income (PO, electricity, public transport, etc). SOB

this is what i mean spot, think carefully now
public transport is useful....to get people to business to produce wealth
electricity is useful...to run business to produce wealth for australia
the post office is useful....to allow business to trade and grow the economy.

in and of themselves, revenue from these things IS NOT A SUSTAINABLE SOURCE OF DOLLARS

John S wrote on Dec 31^st, 2012 at 3:52am:

WHEN YOU’RE HAVING a debate with someone and they start to abandon facts, you can almost guarantee you’re right. Or if they respond to your evidence with a personal insult, you can also be fairly assured that you are, in fact, correct.

This happens every time I debate with lefties - especially unwise one

he/she ask me about how many countries between Iraq/Afghanistan and Australia that have signed the UN Refugee Convention

He/She was hoping that there's is none - to prove the point illegals had to choice but to got to Australia

But when I pointed pointed out that there were 145 countries. And Europe was closer to Afghanistan/Iraq. As well as if these people started walking or take a boat East, South or West they would run into 10 countries that have signed the UN Refugee convention before they get to Australia

unwise one decided to abandon this quest as if he/she never mentioned it - instead calling me a racist  :D :D :D

We're , (Your) all living on Bull poo Moutain.

If you create a big enough lie People will eventually Believe it,