http://youtu.be/ixLds6hbvag

Good lord - criminals exist in London - who'd've thunk it??

UK government minister gets short shrift from moslem community spokesman, for daring to come into a 'moslem area'.

The moslem community spokesman shouts down the UK government minister...

How Dare You Come To A Muslim Area?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNiMXK8Lbv8

"How dare you [a UK government minister] come into a moslem area ? Don't push me man!"




+++

Moslems really appreciate the UK and its weclome to the moslems, and their community.

Moslems really appreciate the sanctuary which the UK has given to moslems, and their community.
/sarc off




The UK is full of 'sheep'.     [The UK is full of people who are morally sick and morally WEAKENED.]

How do moslems slaughter sheep ?

Easy.

"First, bring your knife to the throat of the [unresisting] sheep....."

The British 'sheep' are rushing to the moslem knife, because the British 'sheep' have come to hate life and truth.

AND, there will be a great slaughter in the UK, ISLAM demands it.







"It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land....."
Koran 8.067

Koran [8:67 above] is instructive to moslems.

Instructive.

Instructive.

Instructive.

Its meaning is that it teaches moslems should beleaguer and slaughter the enemies of ISLAM, in the land, so as to terrorise them, and so as to cower them, and to make them afraid of moslems.

So that later, moslems will more easily be able to defeat, and enslave a pliant, fearful enemy of ISLAM.

ISLAM wants all disbelievers, to fear moslems!




+++

The vast majority of the disbelievers in the West 'haven't got a clue' - as to how moslems will conduct warfare against the enemies of Allah.

But the moslems are attentive students, at the knee of their Imam's, and moslems know their 'game plan'.

Their 'game plan' is all set out in the Koran.

The Koran is a manual which directs moslems, on how to conduct their warfare, against the enemies of ISLAM.



Google;
quran, is a manual for warfare, against enemies of islam


Google;
quran, is an instruction manual




WAKE UP PEOPLE!

Interesting point. I remember as a student people asking how Amanda Vanstone could show her face in a university. How could the federal Minister for Education come to a student area after the recent cuts?

Peter Costello’s entry into student politics was to protest the protesters at Monash University. The Maoist-led student union wanted to stop Malcolm Fraser giving a lecture at the uni. How can the prime minister of Australia speak at an Australian university?

As always, there’s context. Amanda Vanstone was a rabble rouser - a hard-boiled picket line crosser. She’s tough - probably tougher that the students who marched to Hyde Park with her huge head on a platter. They later used the same effigy in the Mardi Gras and it became famous.

Now she’s the ambassador to Italy, or was before the Gillard govt owed someone a favour.

Karnal wrote on Jan 20^th, 2013 at 11:44pm:

Interesting point. I remember as a student people asking how Amanda Vanstone could show her face in a university. How could the federal Minister for Education come to a student area after the recent cuts? Peter Costello’s entry into student politics was to protest the protesters at Monash University. The Maoist-led student union wanted to stop Malcolm Fraser giving a lecture at the uni. How can the prime minister of Australia speak at an Australian university? As always, there’s context. Amanda Vanstone was a rabble rouser - a hard-boiled picket line crosser. She’s tough - probably tougher that the students who marched to Hyde Park with her huge head on a platter. They later used the same effigy in the Mardi Gras and it became famous. Now she’s the ambassador to Italy, or was before the Gillard govt owed someone a favour.

Ah, the old student days, when we called for the head of Amanda Vanstone on a platter.

What fun.




IMAGE...
http://images.smh.com.au/2012/09/15/3637564/art-protest3-620x349.jpg
Sydney, 2012, moslem street protests.
'Demonstrating' just how 'peaceful' and tolerant ISLAM and moslem really are.


But it was all just good fun.

'Nobody die.'

They were the good old days, but as the OP has no information or discussion starter, I don’t have a clue what he’s trying to say.

I know what you’re saying, Y. Have you got that GLBT post with the nameless PM? Let’s enlighten Big Dave.

Karnal wrote on Jan 21^st, 2013 at 7:47am:

They were the good old days, but as the OP has no information or discussion starter, I don’t have a clue what he’s trying to say.

but clearly we don't need a discussion starter Karnal - all we need is any random video/article/rant showing how horrible muslims are, then we can always rely on our good christian soldier here to provide the evil quran quotes and the beheading placards that explains everything. See thats all we need on this forum.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 21^st, 2013 at 10:58am:

Karnal wrote on Jan 21st, 2013 at 7:47am: They were the good old days, but as the OP has no information or discussion starter, I don’t have a clue what he’s trying to say. but clearly we don't need a discussion starter Karnal - all we need is any random video/article/rant showing how horrible muslims are, then we can always rely on our good christian soldier here to provide the evil quran quotes and the beheading placards that explains everything. See thats all we need on this forum.

".....evil quran quotes"

".....beheading placards"


gandalf,

I don't see you reforming ISLAM, i don't see you engaging with ISLAM's 'misguided' cadres, to guide them in the correct path.

Do you do that gandalf ?


I only see people like yourself [on the net] castigating and denigrating the critics of that evil philosophy.

Why is that ?








Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20  For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

IMAGE....
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gvXwPghPsU4/TiV9dY_RIKI/AAAAAAAAC-k/yA0crbVWgvA/s320/10commandments.jpg





Hey gandalf,

You are a good moslem.

Do you love God ?

Do you keep his commandments ?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 21^st, 2013 at 10:58am:

Karnal wrote on Jan 21st, 2013 at 7:47am: They were the good old days, but as the OP has no information or discussion starter, I don’t have a clue what he’s trying to say. but clearly we don't need a discussion starter Karnal - all we need is any random video/article/rant showing how horrible muslims are, then we can always rely on our good christian soldier here to provide the evil quran quotes and the beheading placards that explains everything. See thats all we need on this forum.

True. We also need to know an unknown ex-Malaysian prime minister's thoughts on GLBTs. It was something to do with GLBTs being incompatible with Islam, Christianity or Hinduism, I forget which.

Do you know, Yadda?

Yadda wrote on Jan 21^st, 2013 at 12:21pm:

Hey gandalf, You are a good moslem. Do you love God ? Do you keep his commandments ?

Good question, Yadda. As a Christian, do you keep the Lord's commandments and teach others to do so?

yeah, isn't there a commandment somewhere thou shalt not be a judgmental douchebag? - or something like that...

Karnal wrote on Jan 21^st, 2013 at 3:05pm:

We also need to know an unknown ex-Malaysian prime minister's thoughts on GLBTs. It was something to do with GLBTs being incompatible with Islam,

A former deputy PM of Malaysia was jailed for 9 years for sodomy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_Ibrahim

The muslims have been imposing sharia on the Poms for a while, these pics went up a while ago.

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9251/sharia.jpg

Karnal wrote on Jan 21^st, 2013 at 3:08pm:

Yadda wrote on Jan 21st, 2013 at 12:21pm: Hey gandalf, You are a good moslem. Do you love God ? Do you keep his commandments ? Good question, Yadda. As a Christian, do you keep the Lord's commandments and teach others to do so?

Psalms 14:2
The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.


Where is the spirit of God?;

Matthew 6:33
...seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness;







Deuteronomy 25:1
If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.


Psalms 33:4
For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.
5  He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.


Psalms 37:28
For the LORD loveth judgment,...


Proverbs 8:13
The fear of the LORD is to hate evil:..


Proverbs 17:15
He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.


Proverbs 24:24
He that saith unto the wicked, Thou art righteous; him shall the people curse, nations shall abhor him:
25  But to them that rebuke him shall be delight, and a good blessing shall come upon them.


Proverbs 29:27
An unjust man is an abomination to the just: and he that is upright in the way is abomination to the wicked.


Isaiah 59:15
Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.


Amos 5:14
Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken.
15  Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.


Romans 12:9
.....Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.


Ephesians 5:9
(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
10  Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11  And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.


1 Thessalonians 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22  Abstain from all appearance of evil.


2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 21^st, 2013 at 3:17pm:

yeah, isn't there a commandment somewhere thou shalt not be a judgmental douchebag? - or something like that...

gandalf,

If you don't want to be rebuked [challenged] by me, then renounce ISLAM.

Why renounce ISLAM ?






"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123


"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111


"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29


"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."
Koran 3.85


"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..."
Koran 2.193


"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."
hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196


"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11


"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of [i.e. for] those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76





+++

gandalf,

Why should i tolerate ISLAM ?

I do not.

ISLAM is a deceitful, vicious, violent, death cult.

Q.
Why do moslems choose to associate themselves with ISLAM ?

A.
Because moslems see nothing wrong with what ISLAM promotes - moslem supremacy in the world.
....through intimidation and deceit and mayhem and violence and the murder of anyone who opposes them.



"....the death of those who are killed for the cause of God gives more impetus to the cause, which continues to thrive on their blood."
ISLAMIC scholar and 'academic', Sayyid Qutb






+++



"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."
Karl Popper


"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil."
Thomas Mann

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 21^st, 2013 at 3:17pm:

yeah, isn't there a commandment somewhere thou shalt not be a judgmental douchebag? - or something like that...

gandalf,

ISLAM itself, is a 'judgemental douchebag'.

ISLAM will not allow any man or woman freedom of conscience.


FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260








ISLAM judges those who do not wish to embrace ISLAM as being enemies of Allah and as being evil persons who are the friends of SATAN....

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of [i.e. for] those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76




ISLAM sanctions moslem violence against those who do not wish to embrace ISLAM, as being 'lawful'....

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

Yadda wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2013 at 2:02am:

Karnal wrote on Jan 21st, 2013 at 3:08pm: Yadda wrote on Jan 21st, 2013 at 12:21pm: Hey gandalf, You are a good moslem. Do you love God ? Do you keep his commandments ? Good question, Yadda. As a Christian, do you keep the Lord's commandments and teach others to do so? Psalms 14:2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. Where is the spirit of God?; Matthew 6:33 ...seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; Deuteronomy 25:1 If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked. Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth. 5  He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD. Psalms 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment,... Proverbs 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil:.. Proverbs 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD. Proverbs 24:24 He that saith unto the wicked, Thou art righteous; him shall the people curse, nations shall abhor him: 25  But to them that rebuke him shall be delight, and a good blessing shall come upon them. Proverbs 29:27 An unjust man is an abomination to the just: and he that is upright in the way is abomination to the wicked. Isaiah 59:15 Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. Amos 5:14 Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken. 15  Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph. Romans 12:9 .....Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good. Ephesians 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) 10  Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11  And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22  Abstain from all appearance of evil. 2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

You know, Y? That's the first time I've read a Christian supporting the view that Christians should set themselves up as judges. There's always a first, I guess.

You've also ignored every other quote in the Bible stating that Christians should do the exact opposite - not unlike like your reading of the Koran.

Is it a problem with the books or the people reading them?

Karnal wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2013 at 9:14am:

You know, Y? That's the first time I've read a Christian supporting the view that Christians should set themselves up as judges. There's always a first, I guess. You've also ignored every other quote in the Bible stating that Christians should do the exact opposite - not unlike like your reading of the Koran. Is it a problem with the books or the people reading them?

K,

It just goes to show you how refreshing a new perspective can be, on old material.       :P

Doesn't it ?








Am i really a 'judge' of others ?

I have no authority to pass any sentence on others.       [....on a few occasions here in OzPol, i have said in a post, how i would like Australian law to change, to take account of the threat to Australian life, which ISLAM poses. Don't i have a right to encourage others to do the same [to lobby their government] also ?]

But, i do have the right to challenge the worldview of others [particularly, if the worldview of others [e.g. moslems] is going to impact adversely upon my own well being].

Don't i ?





Luke 17:3
Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
4  And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.



K,

What moslems choose to embrace, and have chosen to embrace, deeply offends me.

And here on OzPol i express my offence [at the views and choices of moslems].

Is it a crime, to express a view or an opinion ?

ISLAM says that to express a view or an opinion against ISLAM, is a crime.



"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
George Orwelli

K,

As for the views that i express, e.g. about moslems/ISLAM, 'offending' moslems.

I, DO NOT give offence to anyone.

If moslems are 'offended', then it is moslems who create that feeling, within their own heart.




"You make yourself and others suffer just as much when you take offence, as when you give offence."

H.B.T.H.C. Ken Keyes

Y, the right to challenge the worldview of others is not what Jesus was on about.

I agree with Luke. I’m not sure you do, but who am I to challenge the worldview of others?

Karnal wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2013 at 12:05am:

Y, the right to challenge the worldview of others is not what Jesus was on about. I agree with Luke. I’m not sure you do, but who am I to challenge the worldview of others?

Surely that depends upon 'how far' some persons want to take their worldview.



http://www.truthbeknown.com/images/nickbergbeheading.jpg





Jesus ?

Jesus the man, was a 'law taker' [i.e. he was an obedient son of God].

i.e.
Jesus did not believe that men should pursue lawlessness, to achieve good.

Moslems do, and that is precisely what ISLAM teaches to mankind.

i.e.
That to do evil, so that good may come, is OK.

ISLAM teaches moslems, that it is required for good men, to do evil, so that good may come.



But of course, in a literal sense ISLAM ALWAYS insists [falsely] that the evil which it encourages, is really 'good works', serving Allah.

Karnal wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2013 at 12:05am:

I agree with Luke. I’m not sure you do, but who am I to challenge the worldview of others?

K,

Luke was quoting Jesus.

Right ?


Luke 17:3
Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
4  And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.







Karnal wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2013 at 12:05am:

Y, the right to challenge the worldview of others is not what Jesus was on about.

No ?

n.b.
"If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him;"

Was Jesus in error, K ?

How far? Jesus taught a worldview of not judging others. That’s your self-professed world view.

It’s not a matter of how far you want to take it. The benchmark’s set. Jesus didn’t play a lot of cut and paste intellectual games. He asked God to forgive the people who crucified him.

I’m not here to challenge your worldview. There’s no anti-Yadda Muslims here or anywhere else. Your Muslims are all in your head. If you don’t want to follow your own worldview, that only makes you in conflict with yourself.

Karnal wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2013 at 12:39am:

How far? Jesus taught a worldview of not judging others. That’s your self-professed world view. It’s not a matter of how far you want to take it. The benchmark’s set. Jesus didn’t play a lot of cut and paste intellectual games. He asked God to forgive the people who crucified him. I’m not here to challenge your worldview. There’s no anti-Yadda Muslims here or anywhere else. Your Muslims are all in your head.

And the ISLAMIC foundation texts [the Koran and Hadith], which guide ALL moslems, and promote murder and genocide, are also 'inside my head', oh fatuous one.i
Karnal wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2013 at 12:39am:

If you don’t want to follow your own worldview, that only makes you in conflict with yourself.

I inhabit this flesh [the same as you, and the same everyone else who takes a breath].

And do i sound as confused and conflicted, as you are suggesting ?         :D




My God will judge me.

My God will be my judge.

It is a wonderful game, and challenging.

Am i in error, K ?



Read the Bible.

Meditate upon what it reveals.








Malachi 3:14
Ye have said, It is vain to serve God: and what profit is it that we have kept his ordinance, and that we have walked mournfully before the LORD of hosts?
15  And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered.
16  Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
17  And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
18  Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

I have meditated on the Bible, Y. I continue to. I’m constantly suprised when I hear a new verse that really says something, or an old one I’ve never thought of quite in that way.

I’m not sure you’re confident of your stance. I think you’re aware that it’s not the Christian path, but I don’t think you care.

All those words about meeting God and being judged - I think you assume none of it will happen to you. After all, you’ve prayed to Jesus, and you believe He’ll save you. It’s not essential for you to practice what Jesus really taught - it’s essential to speak in the "name" of Jesus, to brand yourself a Christian, and as an added benefit, to spread hatred for those you see as gravely in sin.

Jesus taught none of these things. In fact, he rebuked those who would preach division in his name He called them hypocrites.

I don’t think your hatred of Muslims is a part of your religion. I think it’s an addiction you can’t quit. You don’t see it as a problem. It’s just a sort of hobby on the side.

But this hatred is exactly what Jesus taught about, and there are consequences to it. Most of all, it just keeps you unhappy. You think that each post increases your knowledge and the knowledge of others, but it’s a hollow form of knowledge and no one’s reading anyway. It keeps you in misery.

Anyone who reads words of hatred from a self-professed Christian knows hypocracy when they see it. For most, I think, it just puts them off Christianity.

Which is a pity, because the teachings are revolutionary if you apply them in your life. "I came not to bring peace, but a sword."

The problem is, thanks to the example of the Christians Jesus warned about, so few people do.

I don’t expect you to come around to the message of Jesus anytime soon, and I don’t judge you for this. But please be aware that no one will really take your Bible quotes seriously until you do.

Karnal wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2013 at 9:30am:

I have meditated on the Bible, Y. I continue to. I’m constantly suprised when I hear a new verse that really says something, or an old one I’ve never thought of quite in that way. I’m not sure you’re confident of your stance. I think you’re aware that it’s not the Christian path, but I don’t think you care. All those words about meeting God and being judged - I think you assume none of it will happen to you. After all, you’ve prayed to Jesus, and you believe He’ll save you. It’s not essential for you to practice what Jesus really taught - it’s essential to speak in the "name" of Jesus, to brand yourself a Christian, and as an added benefit, to spread hatred for those you see as gravely in sin. Jesus taught none of these things. In fact, he rebuked those who would preach division in his name He called them hypocrites. I don’t think your hatred of Muslims is a part of your religion. I think it’s an addiction you can’t quit. You don’t see it as a problem. It’s just a sort of hobby on the side. But this hatred is exactly what Jesus taught about, and there are consequences to it. Most of all, it just keeps you unhappy. You think that each post increases your knowledge and the knowledge of others, but it’s a hollow form of knowledge and no one’s reading anyway. It keeps you in misery. Anyone who reads words of hatred from a self-professed Christian knows hypocracy when they see it. For most, I think, it just puts them off Christianity. Which is a pity, because the teachings are revolutionary if you apply them in your life. "I came not to bring peace, but a sword." The problem is, thanks to the example of the Christians Jesus warned about, so few people do.

K,

But you have already denigrated me, casting me as crazy [irrational].

So isn't it clear that any opinions i hold, and any views that i express, are totally in error and irrelevant ???




K,

And so, isn't it clear, that only rational people like yourself can ever hold any sway, in a forum such as this ?



K, posited....Craziest poster

Karnal wrote on Jan 21^st, 2013 at 3:54pm:

Greetings to you, my friends. It is a jolly day for all, no? Can you say who is biggest crazy poster in the boards? :D :D :D There are many, it is so. You can choose as you wish: Yadda It is Light Soren Some are not so crazy, no? Maybe you have your own. Please to add. It is only for funs, you understand. These peoples are like a brother, sister, aunie, uncle, mother, father, all.

+++


K,

Is this your position ?

Persons who choose to who follow an evil supremacist philosophy, a philosophy which promotes intimidation, vicious violence, rape, murder, banditry and brigandry as being 'righteous' and 'lawful' [so long as these 'affections' are inflicted upon those outside of their own 'camp'], so as to promote their own exclusive worldview, of their own supremacist fantasies,
.....THEY are the ones who get a 'pass' from you.

But those persons who expose the error [in ourselves] of toleration of such a philosophy, are 'crazy' and full of 'hatred'.

Sure.

You are the rational one K.

Sure you are.






Devolution, in man, is taking place, at a pace, in the physical bodies of mankind, but devolution also taking place in the psyche of man.

But K, the clear lack of your ability to see discrimination [of good or evil] as a virtue, proves the devolution case.

IMO, people such as yourself are glaring examples, that devolution is also taking place in the psyche of men.



Dictionary;
devolution = =
1 the devolving of power by central government to local or regional administration.
2 formal descent or degeneration to a lower or worse state.


Dictionary;
psyche = = the human soul, mind, or spirit.


Dictionary;
discrimination = =
1 the action of discriminating against people.
2 recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another.    good judgement or taste.







+++


FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260





FROM THE 'HOLY' KORAN

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111





FROM AN ISLAMIC 'SCHOLAR' AND 'ACADEMIC', PROMOTING THE 'VIRTUE' OF ISLAM    /sarc off

"....the death of those who are killed for the cause of God gives more impetus to the cause, which continues to thrive on their blood."
Sayyid Qutb

Y, it’s not our job to discriminate between the good or evil of others. As you’ve said, you’re not a judge, and neither am I.

But as people who profess to follow a spiritual path, it’s our job to discriminate between the good and evil in ourselves. This is what Jesus taught, and he was very careful to advise against judging everybody else. Jesus was absolutely clear. "Judge not, as you surely shall be judged". The gospels report him saying this a number of different times, in a number of different ways. He even advised what his followers should do when attacked - turn the other cheek. He then went on and gave a real life example of what to do when you’re falsely accused and tried. Jesus stood mute, copped it all, and prayed for his tormentors’ forgiveness.

Jesus didn’t say and do these things to give everyone a free ticket to Heaven. If he did, he wouldn’t have bothered having disciples and teaching people how to live well. Jesus showed by example that he meant what he taught. He was followed by Paul, a reformed persecutor of Christians. Paul’s letters expand on Jesus’s teachings about love and forgiveness. He speaks in no uncertain terms about how Christians should ignore the failings of others, and how they should work on themselves. He taught that life is short, and its purpose is to prepare yourself for what happens after life. He also believed that the world’s life would be short, and the religion he established was to prepare everyone for a final reckoning.

Myself and others have discussed this with you many times, and using so many Bible quotes I lost count. Please correct me if I’m wrong here, but I believe you clarified your religious status as something of an Old Testament man. You even used the term "karmic Christian" to distance yourself from all the nice, peace-loving Christians. You said that you followed your own brand of Christianity that you conceeded was quite different to the organised church variety. Fair enough.

But no matter how you interpret the gospels, you can’t avoid the fact that Jesus taught his followers to be humble, sincere practitioners of a spiritual work based on self-sacrifice, forgiveness, love and  compassion. Anyone who chooses to practice this path gets my full respect. I know how hard it is to do, and I think this work is the most important thing we can do with our lives. Wealth, fame, power - none of this is ultimately fulfilling, but the work of self-efacement and reducing the ego, I think, is.

None of this involves slagging off the religious beliefs and practices of others. This is just pride and ego-gratification. You know this. It’s the very antithesis of what Jesus and Paul taught. All those Bible verses you put in your posts with are a way to avoid this fact. You can’t be an unrepentant hater and a self-professed Christian at the same time.

There are many Christians who continue living in hate. They can try to get away with it, but people will see them as hypocrites. We know, of course,  what Jesus said about them. He wasn’t kind, as you know.

That mote in the eye of the Moslem, Y, presents no problems at all to either of us. Gandalf, Abu and Falah, have not raped or killed us, and they have no intention of doing so. You know this.  But the beam in your own eye is causing you a lot of problems. You ask why you shouldn’t be free to hate who you want, and pass this on to as many people as possible.

That’s the problem: you are. You’re free to continue to go on cutting and pasting the same Koran and jihadwatch quotes you always have. And you can continue to be ignorant about them, revengeful and bitter in the process, because let’s face it, no one’s paying you for it, no one’s thanking you or appreciating your work. You can keep doing this, again and again, repeating the same quotes and the same conclusions that you have done for years - hours and hours of work. But do you know?

No one will bother reading them. In the end, as you have said in the past, you don’t do any of this for the benefit of others. Ultimately, you do it for yourself.

And that’s what’s so sad. If you believe the words of the man you call your saviour, no one benefits, from anger, hatred and constant negativity, but least of all ourselves. Can I suggest another tactic?

Instead of focusing all your energy on the Moslems, why not put your effort into your own worldview? You’ve got a computer, a voice and a good pair of writing hands. Instead of telling everyone how evil the Moslems are, why not write about how great the Christians are?

I’m a receptive audience, and I’ve already grown up with the Bible, so you could start with me. If I’m convinced, we could go and talk to the Moslems. You know, we could tell Gandalf and Abu and Falah about what Jesus said and how they could learn from what he did. Before long, who knows? Maybe people could be inspired to learn and work on themselves. From there, we could help each other and start to work on the evil.

Why not? The current project has not worked for years. If it’s just a way to channel your frustration and letoff steam about people you don’t know, fine. But what’s so great about that? It doesn’t help you or anyone else.

You have the chance to turn things around. What do you want to do? Keep going on, or start to help?

God gave us all that choice, Y. And believe me, we’re far more lucky that many other people and animals in this world. We have a chance. Many don’t. What are you going to do about it?

My source for this article was aussiemuslim.com. So what's wrong with me posting it when they can karnal. I was reading the aussiemuslim.com responses to this article and our good old ex moderator Abu Rashid stated that he didn't believe this incident was a bad thing. Basically religious nutjobs were on a public street accosting people at night and telling them what they can and can't do in their own country. Making them tip out beer and telling a girl off for wearing a skirt .Telling her to get away from their mosque because the street out front was sharia controlled land . Obstructing people from their civil liberties. I'll tell you one thing- if a white boy was filmed doing the same thing to muslims he'd be off writing response after response of fuming kafur  rubbish with his cronies on aussiemuslim.com.

Karnal wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2013 at 5:08pm:

Y, it’s not our job to discriminate between the good or evil of others. As you’ve said, you’re not a judge, and neither am I. But as people who profess to follow a spiritual path, it’s our job to discriminate between the good and evil in ourselves. This is what Jesus taught, and he was very careful to advise against judging everybody else. Jesus was absolutely clear. "Judge not, as you surely shall be judged". The gospels report him saying this a number of different times, in a number of different ways. He even advised what his followers should do when attacked - turn the other cheek. He then went on and gave a real life example of what to do when you’re falsely accused and tried. Jesus stood mute, copped it all, and prayed for his tormentors’ forgiveness. Jesus didn’t say and do these things to give everyone a free ticket to Heaven. If he did, he wouldn’t have bothered having disciples and teaching people how to live well. Jesus showed by example that he meant what he taught. He was followed by Paul, a reformed persecutor of Christians. Paul’s letters expand on Jesus’s teachings about love and forgiveness. He speaks in no uncertain terms about how Christians should ignore the failings of others, and how they should work on themselves. He taught that life is short, and its purpose is to prepare yourself for what happens after life. He also believed that the world’s life would be short, and the religion he established was to prepare everyone for a final reckoning.

+++

But as people who profess to follow a spiritual path, it’s our job to discriminate between the good and evil in ourselves #1. This is what Jesus taught #2, and he was very careful to advise against judging everybody else #3. Jesus was absolutely clear. "Judge not, as you surely shall be judged". The gospels report him saying this a number of different times, in a number of different ways. He even advised what his followers should do when attacked #4 - turn the other cheek. He then went on and gave a real life example of what to do when you’re falsely accused and tried. Jesus stood mute, copped it all, and prayed for his tormentors’ forgiveness. #5

Jesus didn’t say and do these things to give everyone a free ticket to Heaven. If he did, he wouldn’t have bothered having disciples and teaching people how to live well #6. Jesus showed by example that he meant what he taught. He was followed by Paul, a reformed persecutor of Christians. Paul’s letters expand on Jesus’s teachings about love and forgiveness #7. He speaks in no uncertain terms about how Christians should ignore the failings of others #8, and how they should work on themselves. He taught that life is short, and its purpose is to prepare yourself for what happens after life #9. He also believed that the world’s life would be short, and the religion he established was to prepare everyone for a final reckoning.

+++

YOUR POINTS;
#1, Our job is to discriminate between the good and evil [only in ourselves]
#2, This is what Jesus taught - to discriminate between the good and evil [only in ourselves], and, to NOT judge others
#3, Jesus was very careful to advise against judging everybody else
#4, Jesus taught that his followers should always turn the other cheek
#5, Jesus example to us, was that we should suffer the torment inflicted by others, and forgive them.
#6, Jesus had disciples, and taught people how to live well
#7, Jesus taught about love and forgiveness
#8, Jesus taught, Christians should ignore the failings of others
#9, Jesus taught, lifes purpose is to prepare yourself for what happens after this life


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MY RESPONSE;


#1, Our job is to discriminate between the good and evil [only in ourselves]

No argument.

And, who am I ?

I am, MY self.
And i am part of MY family.
A part of MY community.
A part of MY nation.


Exodus 29:45
And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will be their God.

Though i [and all others] live within a vast and diverse world, still it is true, that no man [or woman] is an island.
And i am conscience bound to rebuke error in those entities to which i 'feel' that i am bound [joined], by reputation, when they tarnish MY reputation.

e.g.
Are you all, proud Australians ?
I too am an Australian.
And i am ashamed of the conduct of many 'ugly' Australians abroad.
i.e. The, "I've been to Bali too!!!" 'mob', the drunken yobbo clique.

K, are you saying that i am in error, to be ashamed of, and angry, AND CRITICAL about [for example], the conduct of 'ugly' Australians abroad ?

IMO, in a very real sense, every Australian who goes abroad is an ambassador, for all other Australians.

Am i wrong in feeling this way ?

e.g.
The Bali 9.
What 'image' does that phrase, 'The Bali 9', conjure up for you, and for every other Australian ?

Are those convicted Australian drug smugglers, good ambassadors, for the reputation of all other Australians ?

And, aren't we all, as Australians, diminished in reputation, when so many Australians abroad are seen as being drug users/smugglers and LAWLESS drunken yobbos ?







#2, This is what Jesus taught - to discriminate between the good and evil [only in ourselves], and, to NOT judge others

WRONG.
Yes K, Jesus was our example.
And Jesus example was that we are entitled to judge others who offended our 'righteousness', who offend our conscience about what is good and evil.

e.g. #1,
Jesus ['judged' and] condemned the unrighteousness of the scribes and Pharisees.

Matthew 5:20
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.          and, Matthew 23:13-33


e.g. #2,
Jesus judged the unrighteousness of the wrong-doer, and charged his followers to exile from their daily company the [unrepentant] wrong-doing person

Matthew 18:15
Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16  But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17  And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.


e.g. #3,
Jesus judged the UN-righteousness of the Temple hawkers and money-changers

Matthew 21:12
And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
13  And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.




AND DID JESUS, SET A 'PARAMETER' FOR OUR FORGIVENESS OF THOSE WHO DO US WRONG ?

YES HE DID, imo.

Jesus taught that repentance on the part of the wrong-doing person, was a requirement of his/her forgiveness.

And Jesus was showing the type of [spiritual] contrition before God, that is required within us, if we wish to be forgiven by God.

Luke 17:3
Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
4  And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.





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#3, Jesus was very careful to advise against judging everybody else

TRUE.
[BUT, also see response #2]


Jesus said;

Luke 6:37
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Judge not MEN, and ye shall not be judged BY MEN: condemn not MEN, and ye shall not be condemned BY MEN: forgive MEN, and ye shall be forgiven BY MEN:

Now read the preceeding verse [to Luke 6:37]...

Luke 6:35
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36  Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.



Jesus is saying;
Avoid contentions in this life with other men, if you can.

Always be on good terms with other men, if you can.




IN CONTRAST WHAT DID JESUS SAY ABOUT JOINING OURSELVES TO EVIL ?

Look what Jesus said about the corrupt steward.

Luke 16:1
And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
2  And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward.
3  Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do? for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship: I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed.
4  I am resolved what to do, that, when I am put out of the stewardship, they may receive me into their houses.
5  So he called every one of his lord's debtors unto him, and said unto the first, How much owest thou unto my lord?
6  And he said, An hundred measures of oil. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and sit down quickly, and write fifty.
7  Then said he to another, And how much owest thou? And he said, An hundred measures of wheat. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and write fourscore.
8  And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.
9  And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.

???

If we want to join ourselves to [the world of] 'unrighteousness' in this life, well that is fine [we are free to choose].
But, if we choose that path, then [God says] there will be a personal cost to us, before God.
If we choose the path of corruption [spiritual death] in this life, then corruption will be the place of our [spiritual] habitation.





#4, Jesus taught that his followers should always turn the other cheek

Matthew 5:39
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Teaching us ?

That to live a life [in this place], is to suffer.

Bear the suffering of this life as best you can.

And, seek to be reconciled [in righteousness] to those who do us wrong.

Matthew 5:23
Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24  Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

Peace before man and God, comes through our pursuit of righteousness [righteousness as defined by God], and not through 'joining ourselves' to [our tolerance of] the ungodly and those that hate God's righteousness.

Proverbs 8:13
The fear of the LORD is to hate evil:..



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#5, Jesus example to us, was that we should suffer the torment inflicted by others, and forgive them.

WRONG.

Jesus example to us, was that we should not follow the error of others.

Jesus life pointed to the path of the perfect man.

But we are not here to become perfect.
And, we are not here, in order to come to perfection.
We are here, merely to learn to aspire to our own perfection, imo.

Q.
So what is our path here?

We are here to make [real] choices, and to then learn from the consequences of those [our] choices, and to learn the great value there is, in recognising our own errors.

But if instead we keep repeating the same mistakes, continuing to make the same poor choices, without [our] perception or [our] care[ing] for the consequences [of our real choices], can never bring us to humility before God.

Maybe you [and many others, if you are atheists] do not believe in or expect any redemption - from this world ?

That is OK.

But i and others like me, do hope for our redemption.


Job 19:25
For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26  And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:





#6, Jesus had disciples, and taught people how to live well

No argument.

Jesus was a Torah teacher, and Torah law observant, Jewish man.

IMAGE....
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gvXwPghPsU4/TiV9dY_RIKI/AAAAAAAAC-k/yA0crbVWgvA/s320/10commandments.jpg








#7, Jesus taught about love and forgiveness

Jesus message was about the need for repentance [acknowledgement of error], and the forgiveness that was available to men through that repentance.

Without our heart-felt repentance, there will be no forgiveness.

Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 12:28
...if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Luke 17:20
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21  Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

One day, your body will die, and you will leave it.





#8, Jesus taught, Christians should ignore and be uncritical of the failings of others
WRONG.
See #2



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#9, Jesus taught, lifes purpose is to prepare yourself for what happens after this life

True.

But we are not perfect, nor will any of us come to any form of [spiritual] perfection in our lives here.

That, imo, is an impossible quest.

IMO, our purpose here is to come to that place where we personally acknowledge our 'unredeemable' nature, before God.

Psalms 14:2
The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
3  They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.





Q.
So, how does scripture teach us to 'solve' the problem of our 'unredeemable' nature ?

Q.
How can man with an 'unredeemable' nature 'approach' a righteous God ?

A.
In humility.

Acknowledge our errors to God, in prayer.

Look for God's forgiveness and mercy.

Psalms 6:2
Have mercy upon me, O LORD; for I am weak: O LORD, heal me; for my bones are vexed.

Jeremiah 17:14
Heal me, O LORD, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou art my praise.

1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.






Further;

We need to acknowledge that God alone is the final arbiter of righteousness among men.
And if we are a righteous people, we must be willing to align ourselves with God's righteousness.
Period.

If we love God [i.e. if we love God's righteousness] we have an obligation before God to seek protect the weak from oppressors and criminals, where we can.

And it is WE, WE, WE, who must be prepared to accuse and bring the guilty oppressors and criminals to account.

Isaiah 1:16
Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17  Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

Jeremiah 22:3
Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood in this place.



Our silence in the face of evil, and silence in the face of wrong-doing, is our consent and acceptance [before God] of that wrong-doing.

Revelation 21:7
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8  But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

If we love the world and our 'life' more than God's righteousness, then corruption will be our reward.








Standing with [and being tolerant of] those who hate God, and those who hate God's righteousness [his laws], is not a 'healthy' place to be for mankind or for any individual.

2 Chronicles 19:2
And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD.

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.


Proverbs 8:13
The fear of the LORD is to hate evil:..


Proverbs 17:15
He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.

Y, I think you’re merely justifying. I don’t think you understand what I mean.

Your posts here are almost solely directed against your enemy. There’s no positive display of Christian forgiveness or anything else. Just anger and resentment directed at the Moslem.

If this is a reflection of your mind, it means you’re unhappy. You create this for yourself - no Moslem has insulted or hurt you. You’re picking a fight.

This is no way to achieve peace or contentment. Jesus taught that the world is a reflection of ourselves. What we put out, we get back - judge not, or ye surely shall be judged.

It’s your life. I can’t tell you how to live it. But your campaign here has gone on for years and convinced no one. It reads as you merely trying to convince yourself. Day aftet day after day.

It’s nothing more than repetition. What ghosts are you evading?

You will have to face them to make them go away, you know.

I suppose we should all shut up and not mention anything about muslims because we are all unhappy gits.

Big Dave wrote on Feb 17^th, 2013 at 4:50pm:

I suppose we should all shut up and not mention anything about muslims because we are all unhappy gits.

Didn’t you say you know a couple of Muslims and they are, and I quote, "nice blokes"?

Yadda’s sadness is confined to the fact that he has, pretty much, no other topic of conversation.

If people focus solely on what they want to erradicate in others, then yes, they are most unhappy gits. Not only will they not fulfill their desires, but they will frustrate themselves in the process.

We have a choice: get busy living, or get busy dying.

The Muselman’s hardly going anywhere.