If Rudd were to sweep into power (just saying), Swans hold as treasurer is untenable.   

I wonder who would team up with Rudd to take the treasurer role.

This, in my opinion, is Rudd's primary weakness. He doesnt have a high profile running mate.

David Bradbury is the Assistant Treasurer but as the MP for Lindsay he might be out of a job come Sept 14.

He was also promoted after Rudd got knifed for the second time suggesting he's a Gillard lackey.... :-?

WHEN Rudd assume ALP leadership role - in opposition Labor's Shadow Treasurer is probably Wong

Maqqa wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 12:28pm:

WHEN Rudd assume ALP leadership role - in opposition Labor's Shadow Treasurer is probably Wong

I thing you're wight.

Maqqa wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 12:28pm:

WHEN Rudd assume ALP leadership role - in opposition Labor's Shadow Treasurer is probably Wong

no. The treasurer will never be from the upper house.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 12:32pm:

Maqqa wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:28pm: WHEN Rudd assume ALP leadership role - in opposition Labor's Shadow Treasurer is probably Wong no. The treasurer will never be from the upper house.

Thomo.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 12:32pm:

Maqqa wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:28pm: WHEN Rudd assume ALP leadership role - in opposition Labor's Shadow Treasurer is probably Wong no. The treasurer will never be from the upper house.

Right choice but not a logical choice

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 12:32pm:

Maqqa wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:28pm: WHEN Rudd assume ALP leadership role - in opposition Labor's Shadow Treasurer is probably Wong no. The treasurer will never be from the upper house.

What makes you say that?

can you name a single treasurer in the history of the federal parliament who has been from the senate?

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 12:44pm:

can you name a single treasurer in the history of the federal parliament who has been from the senate?

No.

Now, what makes you say "never"?

Not sure whose side he is on, but Simon Creen "looks" like treasurer material.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 12:44pm:

can you name a single treasurer in the history of the federal parliament who has been from the senate?

No.

Traditionally they come from the HOR.

However, that's only tradition.

The same goes for the Prime Minister: there's absolutely nothing stopping a Prime Minister from sitting in/coming from the Senate.

Saying "never" is a little narrow-minded.

And, although not Federal, Treasurers have served in the upper houses of New South Wales (Michael Egan, Michael Costa and Eric Roozendaal), Victoria (John Lenders) and Tasmania (Michael Aird).

I certainly wouldn't say "never": you might be Wong one day   ;)

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 12:47pm:

Not sure whose side he is on, but Simon Creen "looks" like treasurer material.

Quote:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/simon-crean-blasts-disloyal-kevin-rudd-says-he-should-challenge-or-quit-the-team/story-fn59niix-1226275525220 CABINET minister Simon Crean has accused Kevin Rudd of disloyalty and urged an "assertion of leadership" by Julia Gillard to address Labor's leadership crisis. The loyal Gillard supporter said the Prime Minister should have a frank discussion with Mr Rudd, who he said should “exit the team” or bring on a challenge. “He is not playing as part of the team,” Mr Crean told ABC Radio. “He's clearly been disloyal internally. I know he's been talking to other people.” Mr Crean said the time had come for the Prime Minister and her rival to resolve the issue. He said Mr Rudd should “put up or shut up”. “I think what's got to happen is the Prime Minister has to have a discussion with him. The conversation should be if he can't be part of the team he should exit the team.

he could always ask Gillard .

John Smith wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 12:56pm:

he could always ask Gillard .

http://www.animateit.net/data/media/june2010/avatar.gif

No matter what Rudd does, Joe Hockey will be Treasurer  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Rider wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 1:09pm:

No matter what Rudd does, Joe Hockey will be Treasurer  ;D ;D ;D ;D

what a disaster that will be.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 12:44pm:

can you name a single treasurer in the history of the federal parliament who has been from the senate?

There's been a PM...

Swagman wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 1:17pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:44pm: can you name a single treasurer in the history of the federal parliament who has been from the senate? There's been a PM...

Yes, I actually forgot that.    :-[
There's nothing stopping the PM and/or Treasurer from sitting in the Senate.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 12:32pm:

Maqqa wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:28pm: WHEN Rudd assume ALP leadership role - in opposition Labor's Shadow Treasurer is probably Wong no. The treasurer will never be from the upper house.

I don't think there has been one (yet)...but


Quote:

There is nothing to prevent a treasurer being chosen from outside Parliament. True, treasurers have always been members of the House of Representatives, but there is nothing in the constitution that specifies this must be the case.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/carr-appointment-takes-senate-manipulation-to-next-level-20120313-1uyab.html#ixzz2LJOip9dO 8-)

...that's a loop hole.  The Govt can appoint anyone as a senator and then make them the PM....? :o :o

Maybe Julia will give Timmy the job?  He a hairdresser.  He must have filled in a few BAS statements maybe... ;D

Swagman wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 1:30pm:

...that's a loop hole.  The Govt can appoint anyone as a senator and then make them the PM....? :o :o Maybe Julia will give Timmy the job?  He a hairdresser.  He must have filled in a few BAS statements maybe... ;D

"Some of the central features of Australia’s system of government (described as parliamentary, cabinet or responsible government and also called a Westminster-style system) are not set down in the Constitution but are based on custom and convention. These include the position of Prime Minister and the group of senior Ministers called the Cabinet, who make major policy and administrative decisions and in effect govern the country."

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/House_of_Representatives/Powers_practice_and_procedure/00_-_Infosheets/Infosheet_13_-_The_Constitution

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 12:06pm:

If Rudd were to sweep into power (just saying), Swans hold as treasurer is untenable.    I wonder who would team up with Rudd to take the treasurer role. This, in my opinion, is Rudd's primary weakness. He doesnt have a high profile running mate.

Eddie Obeid. He knows how to create a surplus.

John Smith wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 1:12pm:

Rider wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 1:09pm: No matter what Rudd does, Joe Hockey will be Treasurer  ;D ;D ;D ;D what a disaster that will be.

What do you base this on? You may well be correct, he may well be a disaster, but surely someone actually has to be in the role before you can critically make this assessment?

Swagman wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 1:27pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:32pm: Maqqa wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:28pm: WHEN Rudd assume ALP leadership role - in opposition Labor's Shadow Treasurer is probably Wong no. The treasurer will never be from the upper house. I don't think there has been one (yet)...but Quote: There is nothing to prevent a treasurer being chosen from outside Parliament. True, treasurers have always been members of the House of Representatives, but there is nothing in the constitution that specifies this must be the case. Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/carr-appointment-takes-senate-manipulation-to-next-level-20120313-1uyab.html#ixzz2LJOip9dO 8-)

John Gorton was still in the senate when he became PM, so it has already happened. The fact he joined the HOR after that is irelivent, there is nothing in the constitution that says a PM must be from the HORs, in fact the PM is not even mentioned in the constitution. Which leads me to this, LAbor are in all sorts of sh it and don't want to go back to Rudd but Gillard is losing votes by the day, could they come to a compromise position ? Bob Carr? I have always been under the impression the NSW right lobbied for Carr for that senate vacancy and foreign minister as a backup plan should Gillard fail, now is the time to use him, he would have six months to turn it around.

Bob Carr?  Interesting theory.  Labor would win zero seats in NSW if they install him though... ;D

How about Robbie Waterhouse? Even a bookmaker would be preferable to that bozo Swann.

The ALP desperately need to pick up some seats in WA.

A Smith/Shorten ticket would probably work better for them.

A Prime Minister from Narrogin!  I'd like to see that  ;)

Swagman wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 12:19pm:

David Bradbury is the Assistant Treasurer but as the MP for Lindsay he might be out of a job come Sept 14. He was also promoted after Rudd got knifed for the second time suggesting he's a Gillard lackey.... :-?

i thought that guy was our gold medal winning ice skater.
then again, they did recruit kneebone,  ;) ;)

aquascoot wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 4:47pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:19pm: David Bradbury is the Assistant Treasurer but as the MP for Lindsay he might be out of a job come Sept 14. He was also promoted after Rudd got knifed for the second time suggesting he's a Gillard lackey.... :-? i thought that guy was our gold medal winning ice skater. then again, they did recruit kneebone,  ;) ;)

I thought he was a fiction writer.

:-/

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 4:56pm:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 4:47pm: Swagman wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:19pm: David Bradbury is the Assistant Treasurer but as the MP for Lindsay he might be out of a job come Sept 14. He was also promoted after Rudd got knifed for the second time suggesting he's a Gillard lackey.... :-? i thought that guy was our gold medal winning ice skater. then again, they did recruit kneebone,  ;) ;) I thought he was a fiction writer. :-/

should be an easy transition to labor treasurer then

Rider wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 3:29pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 1:12pm: Rider wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 1:09pm: No matter what Rudd does, Joe Hockey will be Treasurer  ;D ;D ;D ;D what a disaster that will be. What do you base this on? You may well be correct, he may well be a disaster, but surely someone actually has to be in the role before you can critically make this assessment?

Watched an interview once where he admitted he got put in a portfolio he had no idea about (under Howard) ... he even admitted to being grateful when they took it if him. He's a nice enough guy, but he hasn't got what it takes .

Chris Bowen would be Rudds Treasurer, and to be honest, he'd be better than Swan is or Hockey could be.

Rudd should be PM, Treasurer and Foreign Minister.
Anything less would be questioning his ability

aquascoot wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 4:58pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 4:56pm: aquascoot wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 4:47pm: Swagman wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:19pm: David Bradbury is the Assistant Treasurer but as the MP for Lindsay he might be out of a job come Sept 14. He was also promoted after Rudd got knifed for the second time suggesting he's a Gillard lackey.... :-? i thought that guy was our gold medal winning ice skater. then again, they did recruit kneebone,  ;) ;) I thought he was a fiction writer. :-/ should be an easy transition to labor treasurer then

Boom boom!

http://www.latimes.com/includes/projects/hollywood/portraits/groucho_marx.jpg

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 12:52pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:44pm: can you name a single treasurer in the history of the federal parliament who has been from the senate? No. Traditionally they come from the HOR. However, that's only tradition. The same goes for the Prime Minister: there's absolutely nothing stopping a Prime Minister from sitting in/coming from the Senate. Saying "never" is a little narrow-minded. And, although not Federal, Treasurers have served in the upper houses of New South Wales (Michael Egan, Michael Costa and Eric Roozendaal), Victoria (John Lenders) and Tasmania (Michael Aird). I certainly wouldn't say "never": you might be Wong one day   ;)

im not sure that is true of the PM. I suspect that the PM has to be from the lower house. constitution notwithstanding, having a PM that was never in the house would be pointless.

again ruddy's problem is that he (like most politicians ) just never understood human psychology.

you are always best to UNDERPROMISE  and OVERDELIVER.
kevin was the classic OVERPROMISE and UNDERDELIVER guy of all times.

we will crush climate change
we will fix the murray
we will deliver the nbn
we will get on the UN
we will fix the federal state hospital funding problem

iits just unsound and can only lead to disappointment.

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 12:06pm:

If Rudd were to sweep into power (just saying), Swans hold as treasurer is untenable.

Not necessarily

All that is needed in a PM/Treasurer relationship is a "bed-mates" FACADE - in the image department - for credibility

Look no further than Howard and Costello to confirm THAT home truth
Their mutual loathing was LEGENDARY
Never so much as invite from either - to cross the other's door-step - in over a decade

But they BOTH managed to put that ASIDE - at the "OFFICE" - for the good of the party

If it takes the teaming of "Australia's preferred Prime Minister" - and the Standard & Poor's and Moody's internationally acclaimed "World's Best Finance Minister" - to keep this country on track, then a number hatchets need to be buried ... and peace pipes smoked

There is TOO much at stake - to consider anything LESS

buzzanddidj wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 9:53pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:06pm: If Rudd were to sweep into power (just saying), Swans hold as treasurer is untenable.    Not necessarily All that is needed in a PM/Treasurer relationship is a "bed-mates" FACADE - in the image department - for credibility Look no further than Howard and Costello to confirm THAT home truth Their mutual loathing was LEGENDARY Never so much as invite from either - to cross the other's door-step - in over a decade But they BOTH managed to put that ASIDE - at the "OFFICE" - for the good of the party If it takes the teaming of "Australia's preferred Prime Minister" - and the Standard & Poor's and Moody's internationally acclaimed "World's Best Finance Minister" - to keep this country on track, then a number hatchets need to be buried ... and peace pipes smoked There is TOO much at stake - to consider anything LESS

you seem to forget Hawke and Keating.  and what about the mutual loathing of Rudd and Swan?

the position of Treasurer is almost always given to the heir-apparent do leadership tensions are pretty common. Why do you think that Turnball - who would be the best choice for Treasurer - is not in that portfolio?

try thinking it thru a bit more.

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 12:06pm:

If Rudd were to sweep into power (just saying), Swans hold as treasurer is untenable.    I wonder who would team up with Rudd to take the treasurer role. This, in my opinion, is Rudd's primary weakness. He doesnt have a high profile running mate.

Humphrey B Bear would be the front runner there. ;D
The only thing Rudd has a chance of sweeping is the back porch.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 10:16am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:06pm: If Rudd were to sweep into power (just saying), Swans hold as treasurer is untenable.    I wonder who would team up with Rudd to take the treasurer role. This, in my opinion, is Rudd's primary weakness. He doesnt have a high profile running mate. Humphrey B Bear would be the front runner there. ;D The only thing Rudd has a chance of sweeping is the back porch.

;D

Rudd's primary weakness is that he is Rudd. And that he had Gillard as his deputy.
And Swan as his Treasurer.
The only thing going for him is that he was dumped by Gillard and Swan. :D  That's even more pissweak than Budwiser.

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 7:36pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:52pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:44pm: can you name a single treasurer in the history of the federal parliament who has been from the senate? No. Traditionally they come from the HOR. However, that's only tradition. The same goes for the Prime Minister: there's absolutely nothing stopping a Prime Minister from sitting in/coming from the Senate. Saying "never" is a little narrow-minded. And, although not Federal, Treasurers have served in the upper houses of New South Wales (Michael Egan, Michael Costa and Eric Roozendaal), Victoria (John Lenders) and Tasmania (Michael Aird). I certainly wouldn't say "never": you might be Wong one day   ;) im not sure that is true of the PM. I suspect that the PM has to be from the lower house. constitution notwithstanding, having a PM that was never in the house would be pointless.

The PM doesn't have to come from the lower house.

See: John Gorton.

However, you're right: it wouldn't be very practical if they were sitting in the Senate.

Still, it's happened before and will probably happen again.

It is only by convention that the leader of the majority party (or parties) in the lower house becomes Prime Minister.

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 11:16am:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 7:36pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:52pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:44pm: can you name a single treasurer in the history of the federal parliament who has been from the senate? No. Traditionally they come from the HOR. However, that's only tradition. The same goes for the Prime Minister: there's absolutely nothing stopping a Prime Minister from sitting in/coming from the Senate. Saying "never" is a little narrow-minded. And, although not Federal, Treasurers have served in the upper houses of New South Wales (Michael Egan, Michael Costa and Eric Roozendaal), Victoria (John Lenders) and Tasmania (Michael Aird). I certainly wouldn't say "never": you might be Wong one day   ;) im not sure that is true of the PM. I suspect that the PM has to be from the lower house. constitution notwithstanding, having a PM that was never in the house would be pointless. The PM doesn't have to come from the lower house. See: John Gorton. However, you're right: it wouldn't be very practical if they were sitting in the Senate. Still, it's happened before and will probably happen again. It is only by convention that the leader of the majority party (or parties) in the lower house becomes Prime Minister.

except that Gorton moved from the senate to the lower house to be PM.  i dont think a senator PM is really very practical.

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 11:56am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 20th, 2013 at 11:16am: longweekend58 wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 7:36pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:52pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:44pm: can you name a single treasurer in the history of the federal parliament who has been from the senate? No. Traditionally they come from the HOR. However, that's only tradition. The same goes for the Prime Minister: there's absolutely nothing stopping a Prime Minister from sitting in/coming from the Senate. Saying "never" is a little narrow-minded. And, although not Federal, Treasurers have served in the upper houses of New South Wales (Michael Egan, Michael Costa and Eric Roozendaal), Victoria (John Lenders) and Tasmania (Michael Aird). I certainly wouldn't say "never": you might be Wong one day   ;) im not sure that is true of the PM. I suspect that the PM has to be from the lower house. constitution notwithstanding, having a PM that was never in the house would be pointless. The PM doesn't have to come from the lower house. See: John Gorton. However, you're right: it wouldn't be very practical if they were sitting in the Senate. Still, it's happened before and will probably happen again. It is only by convention that the leader of the majority party (or parties) in the lower house becomes Prime Minister. except that Gorton moved from the senate to the lower house to be PM.  i dont think a senator PM is really very practical.

He moved from the senate to the lower house AFTER he became PM.  He served as a senator, for a short time, while he was PM.

I agree with you though: it's not very practical.  However, there is absolutely nothing stopping a PM coming from the senate (and there is absolutely nothing about the office of Prime Minister mentioned in the Constitution).

salad in wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 3:16pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:06pm: If Rudd were to sweep into power (just saying), Swans hold as treasurer is untenable.    I wonder who would team up with Rudd to take the treasurer role. This, in my opinion, is Rudd's primary weakness. He doesnt have a high profile running mate. Eddie Obeid. He knows how to create a surplus.

Yes, but for himself.

aquascoot wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 7:41pm:

again ruddy's problem is that he (like most politicians ) just never understood human psychology. you are always best to UNDERPROMISE  and OVERDELIVER. kevin was the classic OVERPROMISE and UNDERDELIVER guy of all times. we will crush climate change we will fix the murray we will deliver the nbn we will get on the UN we will fix the federal state hospital funding problem iits just unsound and can only lead to disappointment.

All in the present Labor Party are overpromise and underdelivery politicians. Also, they are convincing liars, have many still voting for them.

However, it's hard to still believe when one stares at a power bill.

Don't worry about this rheotorical outcome. They all will be looking for a new job mid September!!

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 12:15pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 20th, 2013 at 11:56am: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 20th, 2013 at 11:16am: longweekend58 wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 7:36pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:52pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:44pm: can you name a single treasurer in the history of the federal parliament who has been from the senate? No. Traditionally they come from the HOR. However, that's only tradition. The same goes for the Prime Minister: there's absolutely nothing stopping a Prime Minister from sitting in/coming from the Senate. Saying "never" is a little narrow-minded. And, although not Federal, Treasurers have served in the upper houses of New South Wales (Michael Egan, Michael Costa and Eric Roozendaal), Victoria (John Lenders) and Tasmania (Michael Aird). I certainly wouldn't say "never": you might be Wong one day   ;) im not sure that is true of the PM. I suspect that the PM has to be from the lower house. constitution notwithstanding, having a PM that was never in the house would be pointless. The PM doesn't have to come from the lower house. See: John Gorton. However, you're right: it wouldn't be very practical if they were sitting in the Senate. Still, it's happened before and will probably happen again. It is only by convention that the leader of the majority party (or parties) in the lower house becomes Prime Minister. except that Gorton moved from the senate to the lower house to be PM.  i dont think a senator PM is really very practical. He moved from the senate to the lower house AFTER he became PM.  He served as a senator, for a short time, while he was PM. I agree with you though: it's not very practical.  However, there is absolutely nothing stopping a PM coming from the senate (and there is absolutely nothing about the office of Prime Minister mentioned in the Constitution).

a week or two while parliament wasnt sitting.

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 8:12pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 20th, 2013 at 12:15pm: longweekend58 wrote on Feb 20th, 2013 at 11:56am: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 20th, 2013 at 11:16am: longweekend58 wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 7:36pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:52pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 12:44pm: can you name a single treasurer in the history of the federal parliament who has been from the senate? No. Traditionally they come from the HOR. However, that's only tradition. The same goes for the Prime Minister: there's absolutely nothing stopping a Prime Minister from sitting in/coming from the Senate. Saying "never" is a little narrow-minded. And, although not Federal, Treasurers have served in the upper houses of New South Wales (Michael Egan, Michael Costa and Eric Roozendaal), Victoria (John Lenders) and Tasmania (Michael Aird). I certainly wouldn't say "never": you might be Wong one day   ;) im not sure that is true of the PM. I suspect that the PM has to be from the lower house. constitution notwithstanding, having a PM that was never in the house would be pointless. The PM doesn't have to come from the lower house. See: John Gorton. However, you're right: it wouldn't be very practical if they were sitting in the Senate. Still, it's happened before and will probably happen again. It is only by convention that the leader of the majority party (or parties) in the lower house becomes Prime Minister. except that Gorton moved from the senate to the lower house to be PM.  i dont think a senator PM is really very practical. He moved from the senate to the lower house AFTER he became PM.  He served as a senator, for a short time, while he was PM. I agree with you though: it's not very practical.  However, there is absolutely nothing stopping a PM coming from the senate (and there is absolutely nothing about the office of Prime Minister mentioned in the Constitution). a week or two while parliament wasnt sitting.

What's your point, exactly?

Nothing I've said is incorrect.

There's nothing stopping a PM coming from the Senate: it's happened before and there's absolutely nothing stopping it from happening again.

The office of Prime Minister is not mentioned in the Constitution of Australia.