US wasted billions in Iraq, few results     :(

    From: AAP
    March 07, 2013

 

AFTER invading Iraq 10 years ago, the United States spent $US60 billion ($A58.84 billion) on a vast reconstruction effort that left behind few successes and a litany of failures, an auditor's report says.    

The ambitious plan to transform the country after the fall of Saddam Hussein has been marked by half-finished projects and crushed expectations, according to the final report of the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction, Stuart Bowen.

The aid effort was plagued by in-fighting among US agencies and an improvised "adhocracy" approach, with no one clearly in charge of a massive investment that was supposed to put Iraq on a stable footing, said the report to Congress.     :(

"Management and funding gaps caused hundreds of projects to fall short of promised results, leaving a legacy of bitter dissatisfaction among many Iraqis," it said.

Some of the reconstruction money was stolen, with a number of US military officers and contractors now imprisoned for fraud, while other funds remain unaccounted for to this day, it said.


Of $US2.8 billion in Iraqi oil revenues handled by the US Defense Department, officials could not produce documents accounting for the use of about $US1.7 billion, including $US1.3 billion in fuel purchases, it said.

The lengthy report highlighted some of the worst examples of mismanagement and graft and included interviews with senior Iraqi and US officials who mostly regretted the outcome of the reconstruction program.

"The level of fraud, waste, and abuse in Iraq was appalling," Senator Susan Collins, a Republican from Maine, was quoted as saying.     :(

She was "especially angry when she learned that some reconstruction money found its way into the hands of insurgent groups," the report said.

Both Iraqi and US officials agreed the Americans ignored the advice of Iraqis or never bothered to consult them before launching costly projects, with sometimes disastrous results.

The litany of failures included a new police academy with raw sewage leaking through ceilings, a subcontractor charging $US900 for a control switch valued at seven dollars and a project to build a large prison in Diyala province that was eventually abandoned, despite an investment of $US40 million.

The level of fraud, waste, and abuse in Iraq was appalling," Senator Susan Collins, a Republican from Maine, was quoted as saying.    

She was "especially angry when she learned that some reconstruction money found its way into the hands of insurgent groups," the report said.



I do not believe anyone is surprised by this..

when WW11 ended Germany to its credit revived to become a powerful nation again...and very very quickly... we on the other hands.. get bogged down with so much crap.is it any wonder the crooks and scoundrels took over. over there? they were sitting ducks waiting to be plucked..


dont just look at fraud and waste...in Iraq..its everywhere...

How is this news? This stuff was common knowledge five years ago.!

And in other news, John McCain has been announced as the Republican Presidential candidate.

It's called Oil!!!

That was & is THE result required!

perceptions_now wrote on Mar 7^th, 2013 at 8:36am:

It's called Oil!!! That was & is THE result required!

If that's the case then explain why the US has yet to import a meaningful amount of Iraqi oil? In fact, why invade at all when Saddam would have jumped at the opportunity to sell oil to us for far less money then what it cost to invade?

Chard wrote on Mar 7^th, 2013 at 8:48am:

perceptions_now wrote on Mar 7th, 2013 at 8:36am: It's called Oil!!! That was & is THE result required! If that's the case then explain why the US has yet to import a meaningful amount of Iraqi oil? In fact, why invade at all when Saddam would have jumped at the opportunity to sell oil to us for far less money then what it cost to invade?

I often wonder how many of those that say it was all about oil.... would be happy to go without oil???? I bet they still queue up on pay day to fill it up.

perceptions_now wrote on Mar 7^th, 2013 at 8:36am:

It's called Oil!!! That was & is THE result required!

Fortunately now in this country, we are going to be using bucket loads of shale gas....

Making the United States a net exporter in the future.

My favorite result from the illegal invasion of Iraq -

A U.S. vet. suicides every eighty minutes.  That's 22 per day on 2012 figures.  Up from 18 per day in 2010.   May it go on climbing.

AaLF wrote on Mar 7^th, 2013 at 3:38pm:

My favorite result from the illegal invasion of Iraq - A U.S. vet. suicides every eighty minutes.  That's 22 per day on 2012 figures.  Up from 18 per day in 2010.   May it go on climbing.

OMG... you are one sick dude...

Chard wrote on Mar 7^th, 2013 at 8:48am:

In fact, why invade at all when Saddam would have jumped at the opportunity to sell oil to us for far less money then what it cost to invade?

I don't think anyone understood the game plan of the neocons when they decided to march into Iraq - least of all the neocons themselves. Its common knowledge that they literally had no reconstruction plan - outside of a vague notion of getting the oil industry back up and thinking that it will pay for itself. And then simply sit back and watch liberal democracy spread across the middle east.

The fact that the oil industry - even to this day - never got back on its feet to provide the necessary reconstruction revenue doesn't mean that wasn't the intention at the outset. The billions upon billions wasted in the aftermath is tribute to the complete absense of any reconstruction strategy - and the implementation of what the article termed "adhocracy".

Chard wrote on Mar 7^th, 2013 at 8:48am:

perceptions_now wrote on Mar 7th, 2013 at 8:36am: It's called Oil!!! That was & is THE result required! If that's the case then explain why the US has yet to import a meaningful amount of Iraqi oil? In fact, why invade at all when Saddam would have jumped at the opportunity to sell oil to us for far less money then what it cost to invade?

Actually, Iraq does already sends a very healthy % of its Oil exports, to the US!

However, there was a period during the early to mid 1990's when there was virtually nothing going from Iraq to the US and that was the crux of the decision to "assist" Iraqi citizens, so they could guarantee their future incomes, by guaranteeing future Oil sales to the US! 

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 7^th, 2013 at 9:16am:

perceptions_now wrote on Mar 7th, 2013 at 8:36am: It's called Oil!!! That was & is THE result required! Fortunately now in this country, we are going to be using bucket loads of shale gas.... Making the United States a net exporter in the future.

Shale oil is the last highly polluting dregs that will be gleaned.
It's 3 x more polluting than oil to produce & use.

Andrei doesn't care about the environment.

Iraq was an example of American incompetence.

They had little knowledge of the history of the nation or its warring factions. There was little in the way of an aim except the vague notion they could turn an Arab state into a Western democracy.

what a joke.

"A Democracy"??

No, no, no.  The invasion was pure blood lust on the premise that Iraq had chemical weapons & a missle delivery system that could strike within 45mins of launch.

In 2002/3 an over-whelming 87% of the sheeple were in favor of invasion because they were led to believe Iraq did 911.  They just wanted to see muslim blood flow like oil.  And so did australia.  The democracy crap was a later on red herring to cover the lies for the invasion.

And me, I'm looking forward to seeing the U.S. Iraqi vets attain a suicide rate of more than one an hour every hour.  Nearly there too.   24 per hour.  Yi-ha.

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 8^th, 2013 at 8:24pm:

Iraq was an example of American incompetence. They had little knowledge of the history of the nation or its warring factions. There was little in the way of an aim except the vague notion they could turn an Arab state into a Western democracy. what a joke.

America loves war and everything about it, but they are so bad at it.

That's hilarious!!!

The Yanks are quite good at war, they get plenty of practice. It's peace they stink at.

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 6:57pm:

The Yanks are quite good at war, they get plenty of practice. It's peace they stink at.

No, we're good at that as well.  The problem with Iraq is that we're terrible at nation building and Arabs are culturally unable to accept the full responsibilities involved with running a stable democratic civilization.

Chard wrote on Mar 11^th, 2013 at 5:49am:

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 6:57pm: The Yanks are quite good at war, they get plenty of practice. It's peace they stink at. No, we're good at that as well.  The problem with Iraq is that we're terrible at nation building and Arabs are culturally unable to accept the full responsibilities involved with running a stable democratic civilization.

But Iraq never was a nation. It was a mixture of three Arab tribes with a long history of hatred and warfare. The borders of Iraq's predecessor, Mesopotamia, were drawn up to suit Western interests and bore no recognition of the reality on the ground.

The only thing that kept Iraq together was a series of dictatorships. Without them the country has fallen into chaos.

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 17^th, 2013 at 8:21pm:

Chard wrote on Mar 11th, 2013 at 5:49am: Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 6:57pm: The Yanks are quite good at war, they get plenty of practice. It's peace they stink at. No, we're good at that as well.  The problem with Iraq is that we're terrible at nation building and Arabs are culturally unable to accept the full responsibilities involved with running a stable democratic civilization. But Iraq never was a nation. It was a mixture of three Arab tribes with a long history of hatred and warfare. The borders of Iraq's predecessor, Mesopotamia, were drawn up to suit Western interests and bore no recognition of the reality on the ground. The only thing that kept Iraq together was a series of dictatorships. Without them the country has fallen into chaos.

So you're saying multiculturalism doesn't work.
But you've stated in other threads that it does work, and disagreed with those who said it doesn't. Like the fiasco in Logan recently, for example.

I might surmise from this highly contradictory situation that you saw an opportunity to put the boot into the West and took it, without realising you broke one of your cardinal rules: Criticising multiculturalism.

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 17^th, 2013 at 8:21pm:

But Iraq never was a nation. It was a mixture of three Arab tribes with a long history of hatred and warfare. The borders of Iraq's predecessor, Mesopotamia, were drawn up to suit Western interests and bore no recognition of the reality on the ground

Blame the Brits for that, they were the ones playing redraw the maps after the collapse of the Ottoman Turks. At this point it doesn't matter as trying to undo the work of the Royal Arbitrary Lines On Maps Commission would be far more destabilizing to region than our invasion and occupation of Iraq was.



Quote:

The only thing that kept Iraq together was a series of dictatorships. Without them the country has fallen into chaos.

Yeah, we replaced a stable, or at least predictable, secular dictatorship with a massive sectarian clusterf*ck. But hey, at least they can now democratically decide to remain primatie religous fanatics!

Atheism = war, lies, torture, dictatorship, debt...

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 17^th, 2013 at 9:49pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 17th, 2013 at 8:21pm: Chard wrote on Mar 11th, 2013 at 5:49am: Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 6:57pm: The Yanks are quite good at war, they get plenty of practice. It's peace they stink at. No, we're good at that as well.  The problem with Iraq is that we're terrible at nation building and Arabs are culturally unable to accept the full responsibilities involved with running a stable democratic civilization. But Iraq never was a nation. It was a mixture of three Arab tribes with a long history of hatred and warfare. The borders of Iraq's predecessor, Mesopotamia, were drawn up to suit Western interests and bore no recognition of the reality on the ground. The only thing that kept Iraq together was a series of dictatorships. Without them the country has fallen into chaos. So you're saying multiculturalism doesn't work. But you've stated in other threads that it does work, and disagreed with those who said it doesn't. Like the fiasco in Logan recently, for example. I might surmise from this highly contradictory situation that you saw an opportunity to put the boot into the West and took it, without realising you broke one of your cardinal rules: Criticising multiculturalism.

Rubbish. Sometimes multiculturalism works, others it doesn't.

Anyway, the three tribes of Iraq are all the same culture!

How can it be the same culture if, as you said, they have a "long history of hatred and warfare"? There must be something more than just simple disagreements for that to occur; like deep conflicting cultural values.

Anyway, if it hasn't worked in Iraq, how do you feel about importing these 3 tribes here under the guise of multiculturalism?

I wouldn't call 30% of the population disabled and more than 50% of the rest unemployed  small results.

Grey wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 1:39am:

I wouldn't call 30% of the population disabled and more than 50% of the rest unemployed  small results.

Not to mention Depleted uranium.  How many thousands of years is that going to go on killing & maiming & deforming??    My hope is that God visits the same misfortune & suffering on U.S.U.K. & australia.  What goes around comes around.

Some good news - America's bragging that they only lost 5000 soldiers & the rest (80k?) were only injured & maimed & disabled due to protective clothing, armor & transports & hi-tach field hospitals etc is coming back to haunt them.  More than half of all the vets. are already claiming disability pensions plus massive medical care bills.  And its going to get worse as they age.

AaLF wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 10:53am:

Grey wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 1:39am: I wouldn't call 30% of the population disabled and more than 50% of the rest unemployed  small results. Not to mention Depleted uranium.  How many thousands of years is that going to go on killing & maiming & deforming??    My hope is that God visits the same misfortune & suffering on U.S.U.K. & australia.  What goes around comes around. Some good news - America's bragging that they only lost 5000 soldiers & the rest (80k?) were only injured & maimed & disabled due to protective clothing, armor & transports & hi-tach field hospitals etc is coming back to haunt them.  More than half of all the vets. who served in Iraq & Afghanistan are already claiming disability pensions plus massive medical care bills.  And its going to get worse as they age.

AaLF wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 10:54am:

AaLF wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 10:53am: Grey wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 1:39am: I wouldn't call 30% of the population disabled and more than 50% of the rest unemployed  small results. Not to mention Depleted uranium.  How many thousands of years is that going to go on killing & maiming & deforming??    My hope is that God visits the same misfortune & suffering on U.S.U.K. & australia.  What goes around comes around. Some good news - America's bragging that they only lost 5000 soldiers & the rest (80k?) were only injured & maimed & disabled due to protective clothing, armor & transports & hi-tach field hospitals etc is coming back to haunt them.  More than half of all the vets. who served in Iraq & Afghanistan are already claiming disability pensions plus massive medical care bills.  And its going to get worse as they age.

Where Are the  Weapons of Mass Destruction?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 20^th, 2013 at 6:19pm:

How can it be the same culture if, as you said, they have a "long history of hatred and warfare"? There must be something more than just simple disagreements for that to occur; like deep conflicting cultural values. Anyway, if it hasn't worked in Iraq, how do you feel about importing these 3 tribes here under the guise of multiculturalism?

Morning Mist, does the term "civil war" mean anything to you?

Shouldn't you change your name to Morning Fog?

http://i.imgur.com/fiiRb.jpg
Page Three Sni- Oh sh*t!


Grey wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 12:32pm:

Where Are the  Weapons of Mass Destruction?

Apparently they're in Syria being used on civilians.

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 1:50pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 20th, 2013 at 6:19pm: How can it be the same culture if, as you said, they have a "long history of hatred and warfare"? There must be something more than just simple disagreements for that to occur; like deep conflicting cultural values. Anyway, if it hasn't worked in Iraq, how do you feel about importing these 3 tribes here under the guise of multiculturalism? Morning Mist, does the term "civil war" mean anything to you? Shouldn't you change your name to Morning Fog?

The underlying reason for the civil war was?

Could it be incompatible cultures? Irreconcilable beliefs? 

Is it wise to import these divisions here?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 20^th, 2013 at 6:19pm:

How can it be the same culture if, as you said, they have a "long history of hatred and warfare"? There must be something more than just simple disagreements for that to occur; like deep conflicting cultural values. Anyway, if it hasn't worked in Iraq, how do you feel about importing these 3 tribes here under the guise of multiculturalism?

What a dope. Mistie wins hands down.

Criticizing the West again, Mistie? Shame on you.

Get back to your work at the Acadame, thanks. The future minds of our great white culture depend on it.

AaLF wrote on Mar 7^th, 2013 at 3:38pm:

My favorite result from the illegal invasion of Iraq - A U.S. vet. suicides every eighty minutes.  That's 22 per day on 2012 figures.  Up from 18 per day in 2010.   May it go on climbing.

It must be school holiday time again!

.....what about the 1.42 million civilian deaths in Iraq?

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 1:48pm:

.....what about the 1.42 million civilian deaths in Iraq?

Shhhhh!!! don't talk about that or you'll end up in a cell next to Bradley Manning.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 1:51pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 30th, 2013 at 1:48pm: .....what about the 1.42 million civilian deaths in Iraq? Shhhhh!!! don't talk about that or you'll end up in a cell next to Bradley Manning.

buggerer deserved a court marshall simply for his taste music. Seriously, no one twigged that kid was more f*cked up than a football bat despite him being a fan of Lady Gaga? We used to blanket party soldiers for that sort of thing.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 1:51pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 30th, 2013 at 1:48pm: .....what about the 1.42 million civilian deaths in Iraq? Shhhhh!!! don't talk about that or you'll end up in a cell next to Bradley Manning.

...and of course there is the massive quantities of Depleted Uranium dumped on IRaq by the USA.

shhhhhhh - nobody will know

How do we know this?

Well I suggest people investigate WHY the Dutch forces retreated from a specific area of Iraq during the initial invasion

Its on the public record what the Dutch forces measured and detected in that part of Iraq and their decision to protect their own soliders from the DU aerosol plume that was floating around

Um, why wouldn't anyone know our military uses depleted uranium? It's not like we hide from anyone and its chemical properties make it an ideal material for armor and projectiles. Depleted uranium is also absurdly common in civilian products in a wide veriety of products. I'm willing to bet you've probably got over half a kilo of the stuff in your home and don't even know it.

Chard wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 2:31pm:

Um, why wouldn't anyone know our military uses depleted uranium? It's not like we hide from anyone and its chemical properties make it an ideal material for armor and projectiles. Depleted uranium is also absurdly common in civilian products in a wide veriety of products. I'm willing to bet you've probably got over half a kilo of the stuff in your home and don't even know it.

List the household items that contain depleted Uranium metal - AND how they add up to 500 grams.

I doubt whether you even know what internal exposure to Depleted Uranium does to the human body let alone its effect of the Human DNA.

Are you aware that Fallujah in Iraq had a 7 fold increase in cancer rate as well as a massive increase in birth deformities?

This increase is post the Fallujah attack by US forces (who incidentally used DU weaponry in Fallujah even though this type of weaponry was not required as there were no tanks or armoured vehicles to PIERCE with DU weapons.

Are you aware that returning US personnel were pissing out radionuclides?

Wonder why

(Youre one little sick puppy thinking that you can gallop in here with your fascist apologetics and spin doctoring trying to defend the racist war crimes YOU personally approve of)

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 2:02pm:

...and of course there is the massive quantities of Depleted Uranium dumped on IRaq by the USA.

Dumped eh?


You should google greenpeace radioactive iraq and see what greenpeace have to say.

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 6:03pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 30th, 2013 at 2:02pm: ...and of course there is the massive quantities of Depleted Uranium dumped on IRaq by the USA. Dumped eh? You should google greenpeace radioactive iraq and see what greenpeace have to say.

The best sources are the medical journals

Some very interesting scientific and medical articles have managed to be published in peer reviewed journals that show the health effects and carnage caused by DU weaponry used in Iraq.

In fact many western journals wouldn't publish the articles for obvious reasons. Evidence has since shown that editorial interference occurred from the HIGHEST political levels.

Ironically western scientists were forced to publish their findings in countries such as Iran - lol

And remember, Depleted Uranium based weaponry was banned in the passed but then allowed when the first gulf war occurred.

What a convenient way of disposal of a by product of the Yellow Cake processing industry.

Criminal and the MEdia totally SILENT!

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 6:11pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 30th, 2013 at 6:03pm: Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 30th, 2013 at 2:02pm: ...and of course there is the massive quantities of Depleted Uranium dumped on IRaq by the USA. Dumped eh? You should google greenpeace radioactive iraq and see what greenpeace have to say. The best sources are the medical journals Some very interesting scientific and medical articles have managed to be published in peer reviewed journals that show the health effects and carnage caused by DU weaponry used in Iraq. In fact many western journals wouldn't publish the articles for obvious reasons. Evidence has since shown that editorial interference occurred from the HIGHEST political levels. Ironically western scientists were forced to publish their findings in countries such as Iran - lol And remember, Depleted Uranium based weaponry was banned in the passed but then allowed when the first gulf war occurred. What a convenient way of disposal of a by product of the Yellow Cake processing industry. Criminal and the MEdia totally SILENT!

The yanks are filthy mongrels, they just leave their filth in every place they invade, sore losers.

This is what the Afghani's have to look forward to, USA poisonous trash and unexploded grenades laying around.

I suppose people from the rest of the world will have to clean up their shite for the next 50 years, like in Cambodia.

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 6:11pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 30th, 2013 at 6:03pm: Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 30th, 2013 at 2:02pm: ...and of course there is the massive quantities of Depleted Uranium dumped on IRaq by the USA. Dumped eh? You should google greenpeace radioactive iraq and see what greenpeace have to say. The best sources are the medical journals

Yes what do the medical journals say about radiation sickness?


Quote:

Bagdad 29th June 2003 Environmental group Greenpeace yesterday urged villages near Iraq's largest and badly looted nuclear facility to stop using radioactive barrels to store water and food. Greenpeace has warned that the water supply may have been poisoned as residents,mostly farmers washed the barrels in the nearby Tigris river The group has also uncovered radioactivity in a number of buildings including one source measuring 10,000 times above normal and another outside a 900 pupil primary school measuring 3,000 times above normal. www.arabnews.com/node/233605

Greenpeace say it was a bad idea to store looted radioactive materials in schools.

Washing radioactive contaminated things in the river is not a good idea.

I can see why anti american bigots dont want to read what Greenpeace is saying about radioactive Iraq, i wonder how many scientists work for Greenpeace.

[/quote]

Greenpeace say it was a bad idea to store looted radioactive materials in schools.

Washing radioactive contaminated things in the river is not a good idea.

I can see why anti american bigots dont want to read what Greenpeace is saying about radioactive Iraq, i wonder how many scientists work for Greenpeace.[/quote]

I am not anti-American - just simply anti-Fascism and anti-Imperialism

THe fascist US corpocracy kind of fits the bill don't you think.

You gallop in here and defend the Devil himself, and pedal spin and apologetics

Look in the mirror

Look at what you represent

(blaming the victims - lol)

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 6:36pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 30th, 2013 at 6:11pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Mar 30th, 2013 at 6:03pm: Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 30th, 2013 at 2:02pm: ...and of course there is the massive quantities of Depleted Uranium dumped on IRaq by the USA. Dumped eh? You should google greenpeace radioactive iraq and see what greenpeace have to say. The best sources are the medical journals Some very interesting scientific and medical articles have managed to be published in peer reviewed journals that show the health effects and carnage caused by DU weaponry used in Iraq. In fact many western journals wouldn't publish the articles for obvious reasons. Evidence has since shown that editorial interference occurred from the HIGHEST political levels. Ironically western scientists were forced to publish their findings in countries such as Iran - lol And remember, Depleted Uranium based weaponry was banned in the passed but then allowed when the first gulf war occurred. What a convenient way of disposal of a by product of the Yellow Cake processing industry. Criminal and the MEdia totally SILENT! The yanks are filthy mongrels, they just leave their filth in every place they invade, sore losers. This is what the Afghani's have to look forward to, USA poisonous trash and unexploded grenades laying around. I suppose people from the rest of the world will have to clean up their shite for the next 50 years, like in Cambodia.

That is how fascist imperial war lords behave

I am not sure why anybody in here would be surprised at this behaviour

corporate_whitey wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 9:49pm:

Atheism = war, lies, torture, dictatorship, debt...

Pffft! The war in Iraq was created by a religious fanatic nutbag, Jeebuz-Chlyste lover called "George W Bush", who based his reasoning on lies, used torture against civilians, and created a dictatorship by proxy. Bush also put the United States into further debt, all so that his oil baron buddies could reap the rewards of higher oil profits from higher oil prices.

Atheists are more in tune with the here and now. We don't concern ourselves with fairytale mythical worlds.

corporate_whitey wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 9:49pm:

Atheism = war, lies, torture, dictatorship, debt...

Hitler was a Christian

(Look up the word Atheism in the Dictionary - I am pretty sure that it specifically refers to people who choose to believe in a God-less Universe. I hope that's OK with you)

hitler may have been religious of some kind, but he wasnt a christian

he privately mocked catholicism and christianity, referred to it as "whole hearted bolshevism under the tinsel of metaphysics", etc. legitimate thoughts.

corporate_whitey wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 9:49pm:

Atheism = war, lies, torture, dictatorship, debt...

George W Bush and Barack Obama seem to bang on about good Christian values, and they are renowned for war, lies, torture, dictatorship and debt.

Add John Howard and Tony Abbott to that too.

It seems like Atheism and Christianity have a lot in common.

Iraq, within easy bombing range of Iran.
Iraq, US bases now in the Middle East.
Oh, and the US swiped all our massive wheat contracts with Iraq...we were better off when Saddam was in power.

Afghanistan...borders communist China.  ;)

The US Wasted Billions In Iraq, With Few Results.

What a stupid statement .... what do you mean no results?

Share prices in defence and weapons manufacturing companies have gone up significantly over the last decade ... I'd say thats a good result for the US poli's since most US poli's have shares in these companies ... it was why they went to war in the first place, to create demand for the products .

John Smith wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 7:18pm:

The US Wasted Billions In Iraq, With Few Results. What a stupid statement .... what do you mean no results? Share prices in defence and weapons manufacturing companies have gone up significantly over the last decade ... I'd say thats a good result for the US poli's since most US poli's have shares in these companies ... it was why they went to war in the first place, to create demand for the products .

Are you implying that the 9/11 hit was an inside job?

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 7:23pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 2nd, 2013 at 7:18pm: The US Wasted Billions In Iraq, With Few Results. What a stupid statement .... what do you mean no results? Share prices in defence and weapons manufacturing companies have gone up significantly over the last decade ... I'd say thats a good result for the US poli's since most US poli's have shares in these companies ... it was why they went to war in the first place, to create demand for the products . Are you implying that the 9/11 hit was an inside job?

nope ... Afghanistan was about 9/11 .... thread is about Iraq.

John Smith wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 10:16pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 2nd, 2013 at 7:23pm: John Smith wrote on Apr 2nd, 2013 at 7:18pm: The US Wasted Billions In Iraq, With Few Results. What a stupid statement .... what do you mean no results? Share prices in defence and weapons manufacturing companies have gone up significantly over the last decade ... I'd say thats a good result for the US poli's since most US poli's have shares in these companies ... it was why they went to war in the first place, to create demand for the products . Are you implying that the 9/11 hit was an inside job? nope ... Afghanistan was about 9/11 .... thread is about Iraq.

So you believe NOBODY in the USA knew about the 9/11 hit prior to 9/11?

Interesting how MOSSAD sent its agents there to document it. You would think the CIA knew

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 10:51pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 2nd, 2013 at 10:16pm: Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 2nd, 2013 at 7:23pm: John Smith wrote on Apr 2nd, 2013 at 7:18pm: The US Wasted Billions In Iraq, With Few Results. What a stupid statement .... what do you mean no results? Share prices in defence and weapons manufacturing companies have gone up significantly over the last decade ... I'd say thats a good result for the US poli's since most US poli's have shares in these companies ... it was why they went to war in the first place, to create demand for the products . Are you implying that the 9/11 hit was an inside job? nope ... Afghanistan was about 9/11 .... thread is about Iraq. So you believe NOBODY in the USA knew about the 9/11 hit prior to 9/11? Interesting how MOSSAD sent its agents there to document it. You would think the CIA knew

Off the top of my head I can think of at least six US intelligence agencies that had information about a possible attack. The two  problems were that 1. no single agency had all of the evidence required to warn about a specific attack, and 2. none of those agencies talk to each other at levels low enough in their organizations to share and collectively analyze the data.

The first problem stems from us having so many different intelligence services, each specializing in gatheting different forms of intelligence (e.g. HumInt vs ElInt, sat/aircraft recon vs infiltration recon) and/or specific geographic areas based on legal restriction (the CIA and NSA are both prohibbited from spying inside US boarders by the Posse Comitatus act, so the FBI handles most domestic intelligence), and/or specializing in a specific area of interest (the Defense Intelligence Ageny only cares about national defense related information while the specific branch organizations care about operational intelligence). This means our government "knows" about things in an abstract sense, but there's no gaurantee that a specific piece of information will get to anyone with the authority to act on it.

All of that is compounded by the second problem. Most agencies don't have much in the way of communication with each other, and what cross-talk that does happen is usually at the upper end of the administrative side of the community. CIA doesn't talk to the FBI, the NRO doesn't talk to any of the domestic services, and the DIA doesn't like to talk to anyone not working for the Pentagon. Even better, all of these agencies often have conflicts of interests from the operational level all the way up to agency vs agency infighting over who gets how much in the next federal budget.

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 10:51pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 2nd, 2013 at 10:16pm: Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 2nd, 2013 at 7:23pm: John Smith wrote on Apr 2nd, 2013 at 7:18pm: The US Wasted Billions In Iraq, With Few Results. What a stupid statement .... what do you mean no results? Share prices in defence and weapons manufacturing companies have gone up significantly over the last decade ... I'd say thats a good result for the US poli's since most US poli's have shares in these companies ... it was why they went to war in the first place, to create demand for the products . Are you implying that the 9/11 hit was an inside job? nope ... Afghanistan was about 9/11 .... thread is about Iraq. So you believe NOBODY in the USA knew about the 9/11 hit prior to 9/11? Interesting how MOSSAD sent its agents there to document it. You would think the CIA knew

it's a bit of a stretch from 'US intelligence knowing something was up', to 'it being an inside job' isn't it?

John Smith wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2013 at 8:29am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 2nd, 2013 at 10:51pm: John Smith wrote on Apr 2nd, 2013 at 10:16pm: Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 2nd, 2013 at 7:23pm: John Smith wrote on Apr 2nd, 2013 at 7:18pm: The US Wasted Billions In Iraq, With Few Results. What a stupid statement .... what do you mean no results? Share prices in defence and weapons manufacturing companies have gone up significantly over the last decade ... I'd say thats a good result for the US poli's since most US poli's have shares in these companies ... it was why they went to war in the first place, to create demand for the products . Are you implying that the 9/11 hit was an inside job? nope ... Afghanistan was about 9/11 .... thread is about Iraq. So you believe NOBODY in the USA knew about the 9/11 hit prior to 9/11? Interesting how MOSSAD sent its agents there to document it. You would think the CIA knew it's a bit of a stretch from 'US intelligence knowing something was up', to 'it being an inside job' isn't it?

The Chimp was one of those putting up the massive amounts of explosives to demolish the WTC.

It put them up when everyone was at smoko as to not attract too much attention.

;D ;D