http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/article/16370198/pm-accused-of-using-rubbery-figures-in-457-visa-fight/

Prime Minister Julia Gillard is being accused of using rubbery figures to justify her call for a crackdown on 457 visa rorts.

Today Ms Gillard told a union conference that temporary overseas work was growing faster than employment.

She said temporary overseas worker numbers were up 20 per cent compared with the same time last year, whereas employment growth for the period was only 1 per cent.

But demographer and government adviser Peter McDonald has told 7.30 the statement does not bear scrutiny.

He says that is because the retirement of baby boomers means Australia starts each year 140,000 workers short.

"If the labour force grows by 1 per cent as the Prime Minister says, that's about 120,000 [people]," he said.

"So we take the 120,000 growth, 140,000 we have to make up, [making a] combined 260,000 new workers that we have to get into the labour force, and 457s make up about 40,000 of that."

Ms Gillard also told the union summit it was unacceptable that too many temporary overseas workers were filling health and information technology jobs and that local workers were missing out.

She said tighter requirements on visa applicants and employers would address that.

"It's just not acceptable that information technology jobs, the quintessential jobs of the future, the very opportunities being created by the digital economy ... that such an area as this should be such an area of imported skills," she told the summit.

But experts in both migration and computing have told 7.30 there is an information technology skills shortage.

Migration Institute of Australia chief executive Maureen Horder says IT is still a growth area.

"That's one of the growth areas, Technology. So it's not surprising that we would be looking to broaden the skill base in Australia in that particular sector," she said.

Australian Computer Society figures show since 2003, the number of jobs in IT has grown by 100,000, or 31 per cent, with 12,000 new jobs created last year.

But figures show from 2003 to 2010 the number of domestic Information and Communication Technology students halved, from 9,093 to 4,293.

The Australian Council of Trade Unions (ACTU) has continued to support the Government's moves to tighten the rules on 457 visas.

"I know there's a lot of people out there who want to turn this around into just being a migration issue," said ACTU secretary Dave Oliver.

"It is not. This is about an employment issue.

"This is an issue which is about opportunity.

"It's opportunity for local workers to be employed, it's opportunity for existing workers to be trained up."

So where are the lefties now on this issue??

2 weeks ago she made an announcement to spend $1B on a reading policy based on bad figures

now she wants to persecute legitimate workers based on bad figures again

this 457 crap is utter bs.

So is Dullard governing or electioneering on this matter. Or just dog whistling.

Without a doubt shes as dumb as dog sh1t.

Rider wrote on Mar 15^th, 2013 at 1:32pm:

this 457 crap is utter bs. So is Dullard governing or electioneering on this matter. Or just dog whistling. Without a doubt shes as dumb as dog sh1t.

... as are the fools who follow her!

Eevryone knows the 457 is a scam.  Ive seen plenty of them over the years and they are rarely used for the purpose intended.

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/_img/15-total-population-growth-2012.gif

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/15population.htm
=================================
Contrary to what Politicians say &/or may think, we can not continue to Grow the size of the Australian Population!

All actions & inactions have consequences and whilst we have a large nation, we will shortly have problems in food, water (some areas not enough & other areas, too much) & energy, so our Poluation growth must start to slow.

Immigration, Fertility rates & Death rates will all play a part!

As usual, the unions are talking rubbish and Gillard is only too happy to cart it away for them and sell it to the public.

"It's opportunity for local workers to be employed, it's opportunity for existing workers to be trained up."

They live in a dream world where a 53 year old redundant fitter can be turned into a skilled IT professional.

Yep..the bogans just love 457 visa holders pinching their jobs..good luck selling that one neo cons  :D

adelcrow wrote on Mar 15^th, 2013 at 2:36pm:

Yep..the bogans just love 457 visa holders pinching their jobs..good luck selling that one neo cons  :D

what are you talking about adel

so no one on the left is prepared to confront the numbers present in the article?

Maqqa wrote on Mar 15^th, 2013 at 2:55pm:

so no one on the left is prepared to confront the numbers present in the article?

Go to the big meatworks in Murray Bridge, Naracoorte, Bordertown and Port Wakefield and ask them how many of their unskilled and semi skilled workers are here on 457 visas.
Is Tony Abbott saying its beyond us to train our own people to work in these sorts of jobs?

adelcrow wrote on Mar 15^th, 2013 at 3:14pm:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 15th, 2013 at 2:55pm: so no one on the left is prepared to confront the numbers present in the article? Go to the big meatworks in Murray Bridge, Naracoorte, Bordertown and Port Wakefield and ask them how many of their unskilled and semi skilled workers are here on 457 visas. Is Tony Abbott saying its beyond us to train our own people to work in these sorts of jobs?

Are they breaking the law?

And where are the evidence they are breaking the law?

You are not prepared to confront the numbers present in the article and what it means - but prefer to divert attention to meat works where no evidence is forthcoming

Maqqa wrote on Mar 15^th, 2013 at 3:16pm:

adelcrow wrote on Mar 15th, 2013 at 3:14pm: Maqqa wrote on Mar 15th, 2013 at 2:55pm: so no one on the left is prepared to confront the numbers present in the article? Go to the big meatworks in Murray Bridge, Naracoorte, Bordertown and Port Wakefield and ask them how many of their unskilled and semi skilled workers are here on 457 visas. Is Tony Abbott saying its beyond us to train our own people to work in these sorts of jobs? Are they breaking the law? And where are the evidence they are breaking the law?

Well...its quite obvious that they are bringing in overseas workers while there are many thousands of Aussies capable of doing the work. So its abuse of the 457 visa system...Or do you think its beyond the average Aussie to pack meat or learn how to shoot a bolt into a sheep or Bulls head?

adelcrow wrote on Mar 15^th, 2013 at 3:23pm:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 15th, 2013 at 3:16pm: adelcrow wrote on Mar 15th, 2013 at 3:14pm: Maqqa wrote on Mar 15th, 2013 at 2:55pm: so no one on the left is prepared to confront the numbers present in the article? Go to the big meatworks in Murray Bridge, Naracoorte, Bordertown and Port Wakefield and ask them how many of their unskilled and semi skilled workers are here on 457 visas. Is Tony Abbott saying its beyond us to train our own people to work in these sorts of jobs? Are they breaking the law? And where are the evidence they are breaking the law? Well...its quite obvious that they are bringing in overseas workers while there are many thousands of Aussies capable of doing the work. So its abuse of the 457 visa system...Or do you think its beyond the average Aussie to pack meat or learn how to shoot a bolt into a sheep or Bulls head?

Quote:

Prime Minister Julia Gillard is being accused of using rubbery figures to justify her call for a crackdown on 457 visa rorts

Maqqa wrote on Mar 15^th, 2013 at 2:55pm:

so no one on the left is prepared to confront the numbers present in the article?

Honestly Maqqa..if you're half the successful business man you claim to be then you already know about the rampant abuse of the 457 visa scheme across the country. So you're either just playing dumb or you're completely ignorant.

adelcrow wrote on Mar 15^th, 2013 at 3:26pm:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 15th, 2013 at 2:55pm: so no one on the left is prepared to confront the numbers present in the article? Honestly Maqqa..if you're half the successful business man you claim to be then you already know about the rampant abuse of the 457 visa scheme across the country. So you're either just playing dumb or you're completely ignorant.

then show us the figures

Real evidence of RORTING required, otherwise its front page spin as usual from the party with no idea.

Gillard is out to trash anyone and anything in order to keep her governments dismal performance off the front pages and out of the tv news cycle - simply pathetic, she has single handedly trashed the meaning of serving in high office.

Maqqa wrote on Mar 15^th, 2013 at 3:28pm:

adelcrow wrote on Mar 15th, 2013 at 3:26pm: Maqqa wrote on Mar 15th, 2013 at 2:55pm: so no one on the left is prepared to confront the numbers present in the article? Honestly Maqqa..if you're half the successful business man you claim to be then you already know about the rampant abuse of the 457 visa scheme across the country. So you're either just playing dumb or you're completely ignorant. then show us the figures

where are you adel with the figures?

Employers want a 'cheapie, just arrived off the boat', Aussie IT workers told     :(

Date
    March 15, 2013



Sylvia Pennington



While IT figureheads are in high dudgeon over Prime Minister Julia Gillard's call for a crackdown on rorting and abuse of the 457 temporary visa system, local IT workers says she's on the money.     :(

    To my mind, this is the biggest rort in the system.
    Senior IT consultant

The situation is far from new. Vendors began using cut-price foreign talent to up their profits and elbow Aussies out of jobs early last decade, as soon as they twigged they could, according to those who claim to have been stung by the practice.     :(

While debate over the visa system rages, IT consultancy Mahindra Satyam has announced plans to use staff from India, Malaysia and the Philippines to up its Australian head count from 1600 to 5000 over the next two years.


Forty per cent of the staff would be located in Australia and 60 per cent offshore to Mahindra Satyam, head of ANZ operations Bobby Gupta told India's The Economic Times on Tuesday.

The region currently accounts for 8 per cent of the firm's $US1.31 billion annual revenue.

One worker told Fairfax Media he was made redundant from his nine-year IT management gig with a national liquor retailer in 2003 after the company hired Satyam (now Mahindra Satyam) to take over the IT jobs of eight local staff.

"Satyam had set up company offices in Australia and were bringing in Indian IT staff to do our jobs," the worker claimed.     :(

"We were given a few months' notice of our redundancy and in that time we had to train the Indian staff on how to support our internal systems. It was never said but we were made to feel that if you wanted your redundancy payment, you had to train them. While training the Indian staff, we found out that they were all in Australia on 457 visas.

"There were six of them with some rotating to give others exposure to the systems."

IT professionals say this practice is in common with other major systems integrators and consultancies that use short-term 456 and longer-term 457 visas to boost their bottom line by importing lower-paid overseas workers.     :(

Latest figures show 5800 ICT workers arrived on 457 visas, which allow them to stay for up to four years, in the past seven months.

In a speech on Thursday morning at an Australian Council of Trade Unions event, Ms Gillard accused IT firms of rorting the visa scheme at the expense of local professionals.

IT chiefs say the claim represents desperate vote mongering but those further down the tech food chain believe it's high time the government cottoned on to an issue they've long been highlighting.

"Local workers are effectively replaced by [456] visa holders who come in via their outsourcing employer and they stay for the minimum time, three months, I think, then go home and are replaced by another [456] visa holder," said one senior IT consultant, who asked to remain anonymous.

"This way, their employers pay them minimum wages and are able to undercut local businesses in tendering for work. To my mind, this is the biggest rort in the system."

Vendors and industry associations maintain the problem is one of skills – local candidates just don't have the specialised expertise of their imported brethren – but workers say their rhetoric cloaks an agenda that's all about economics.

"I actually have a colleague here who came in under a 457 and is sponsored by [a major telco]," the consultant said.

"His family are all here now and he's applying for permanent residency. I'm not sure what criteria he was able to meet but his actual job is fairly generic and could be filled by many Australian workers."

Another ICT professional who contacted Fairfax Media claimed to have applied for a job in Western Australia relevant to his skills but was informed by the recruiter that the hiring company wanted a "cheapie, just arrived off the boat".     :o

Satyam Mahindra was contacted for comment.

Have you experienced issues with 457 visas in the IT industry? Email us at scoop@smh.com.au.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/government-it/employers-want-a-cheapie-just-arrived-off-the-boat-aussie-it-workers-told-20130315-2g515.html#ixzz2NaRkBoIJ

Maqqa wrote on Mar 15^th, 2013 at 2:55pm:

so no one on the left is prepared to confront the numbers present in the article?

Well Maqqa, I'm not a "lefty", BUT the numbers in the article do not paint a proper picture -

1) The Total Baby Boomers in OZ is about 5.5-6.0 million and therefore the average annual figure, over
18 years is actually around 305,000 to 333,000.

That said, the Boomer Baby Boom actually Peaked around 1956, so the figures between 2011 to 2021 are likely to be greater than the above.

So, the calculation for the  annual loss of Boomers, from the workforce, is likely to be considerably higher than the 140,000 suggested in the article.

Forget about 120,000 being 1% of the workforce! The figure that should be born in mind, is our 1.13% total Population rate.
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?c=as&v=24

So, 1.13% of our total Population is around 255,000 annual growth AND that's the growth to be born in mind, not the 120,000 figure referred to in the article. 

Oh & you don't add those two figures together! The Population Growth figures should be subtracted from the Boomer Retirement figures, participation rate adjusted (of course) AND the deficit left, is the net loss of workers, which may need recruiting from overseas, IF THEY CAN BE RECRUITED, IF WE ARE STILL IN NEED OF THOSE WORKERS AND IF WE CAN SUSTAIN THOSE ADDITIONAL WORKERS?

Maqqa wrote on Mar 15^th, 2013 at 2:55pm:

so no one on the left is prepared to confront the numbers present in the article?

What's to confront? Gillard has confirmed she's as xenophobic as Pauline Hanson or Tony Abbott. Anybody with an ounce of integrity must vote green and give preferences to independents or vica verse.

457 visas are the Devil Atheists slave visa to provide cheap labor to support Satans beautiful Atheist Demons in the lavish luxury they have become accustomed to before the Judgment when they will be sent to hell and we, the poor will torment them day and night for their crimes against us...

perceptions_now wrote on Mar 15^th, 2013 at 4:37pm:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 15th, 2013 at 2:55pm: so no one on the left is prepared to confront the numbers present in the article? Well Maqqa, I'm not a "lefty", BUT the numbers in the article do not paint a proper picture - 1) The Total Baby Boomers in OZ is about 5.5-6.0 million and therefore the average annual figure, over 18 years is actually around 305,000 to 333,000. That said, the Boomer Baby Boom actually Peaked around 1956, so the figures between 2011 to 2021 are likely to be greater than the above. So, the calculation for the  annual loss of Boomers, from the workforce, is likely to be considerably higher than the 140,000 suggested in the article. Forget about 120,000 being 1% of the workforce! The figure that should be born in mind, is our 1.13% total Population rate. http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?c=as&v=24 So, 1.13% of our total Population is around 255,000 annual growth AND that's the growth to be born in mind, not the 120,000 figure referred to in the article.  Oh & you don't add those two figures together! The Population Growth figures should be subtracted from the Boomer Retirement figures, participation rate adjusted (of course) AND the deficit left, is the net loss of workers, which may need recruiting from overseas, IF THEY CAN BE RECRUITED, IF WE ARE STILL IN NEED OF THOSE WORKERS AND IF WE CAN SUSTAIN THOSE ADDITIONAL WORKERS?

The simple answer to your dilemma is economy of scales

Maqqa wrote on Mar 15^th, 2013 at 5:25pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Mar 15th, 2013 at 4:37pm: Maqqa wrote on Mar 15th, 2013 at 2:55pm: so no one on the left is prepared to confront the numbers present in the article? Well Maqqa, I'm not a "lefty", BUT the numbers in the article do not paint a proper picture - 1) The Total Baby Boomers in OZ is about 5.5-6.0 million and therefore the average annual figure, over 18 years is actually around 305,000 to 333,000. That said, the Boomer Baby Boom actually Peaked around 1956, so the figures between 2011 to 2021 are likely to be greater than the above. So, the calculation for the  annual loss of Boomers, from the workforce, is likely to be considerably higher than the 140,000 suggested in the article. Forget about 120,000 being 1% of the workforce! The figure that should be born in mind, is our 1.13% total Population rate. http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?c=as&v=24 So, 1.13% of our total Population is around 255,000 annual growth AND that's the growth to be born in mind, not the 120,000 figure referred to in the article.  Oh & you don't add those two figures together! The Population Growth figures should be subtracted from the Boomer Retirement figures, participation rate adjusted (of course) AND the deficit left, is the net loss of workers, which may need recruiting from overseas, IF THEY CAN BE RECRUITED, IF WE ARE STILL IN NEED OF THOSE WORKERS AND IF WE CAN SUSTAIN THOSE ADDITIONAL WORKERS? The simple answer to your dilemma is economy of scales

1) It is not my dilemma, it is our dilemma, all of us!
2) Regardless of your "simple answer", There are NO SIMPLE SOLUTIONS!
3) So, you agree my figures are correct!

labor are just pathetic. When gillard is asked why it is ok for her to use the 457 when there is obviously no need for it, even on the temporary basis, she goes to her no answer, Abbotts fault BS.

Gillard did not need to use the 457 visa to employ her communication director. There are plenty of people in Australia to do that job, so what the F is she on about, when she gillard/labor, are in fact abusing the 457 visa system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDqEcjX2c50

progressiveslol wrote on Mar 19^th, 2013 at 5:08pm:

labor are just pathetic. When gillard is asked why it is ok for her to use the 457 when there is obviously no need for it, even on the temporary basis, she goes to her no answer, Abbotts fault BS. Gillard did not need to use the 457 visa to employ her communication director. There are plenty of people in Australia to do that job, so what the F is she on about, when she gillard/labor, are in fact abusing the 457 visa system. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDqEcjX2c50

Not just a side issue stirred up by the opposition. It's a slam dunk that shows Gillard to be a complete hypocrite and totally ingenuous. Nobody on the left should attempt to defend this creature for another minute.  >:(  :-[

perceptions_now wrote on Mar 15^th, 2013 at 7:09pm:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 15th, 2013 at 5:25pm: perceptions_now wrote on Mar 15th, 2013 at 4:37pm: Maqqa wrote on Mar 15th, 2013 at 2:55pm: so no one on the left is prepared to confront the numbers present in the article? Well Maqqa, I'm not a "lefty", BUT the numbers in the article do not paint a proper picture - 1) The Total Baby Boomers in OZ is about 5.5-6.0 million and therefore the average annual figure, over 18 years is actually around 305,000 to 333,000. That said, the Boomer Baby Boom actually Peaked around 1956, so the figures between 2011 to 2021 are likely to be greater than the above. So, the calculation for the  annual loss of Boomers, from the workforce, is likely to be considerably higher than the 140,000 suggested in the article. Forget about 120,000 being 1% of the workforce! The figure that should be born in mind, is our 1.13% total Population rate. http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?c=as&v=24 So, 1.13% of our total Population is around 255,000 annual growth AND that's the growth to be born in mind, not the 120,000 figure referred to in the article.  Oh & you don't add those two figures together! The Population Growth figures should be subtracted from the Boomer Retirement figures, participation rate adjusted (of course) AND the deficit left, is the net loss of workers, which may need recruiting from overseas, IF THEY CAN BE RECRUITED, IF WE ARE STILL IN NEED OF THOSE WORKERS AND IF WE CAN SUSTAIN THOSE ADDITIONAL WORKERS? The simple answer to your dilemma is economy of scales 1) It is not my dilemma, it is our dilemma, all of us! 2) Regardless of your "simple answer", There are NO SIMPLE SOLUTIONS! 3) So, you agree my figures are correct!

I neither acknowledge you figures or agree with it because it's based on assumptions I don't know

Your continued adhesion to them show you lack the understand of how economy of scales work

Of course Maqqua, Juliar Gillard was most probably watching a re run of Zulu and watched the Zulu Chief Cetawayo do his famous feint whereby he attacks but leaves the centre of the attack not so strong, concentrating his strength on the horns or the edges of the thrust.

Yes Gillard most probably went away chanting, Feint! feint!" Then she got up in the morning with the numbers 457, going through her head. Nothing like a sideshow to take the attention away from 34,000 extra mouths to house and feed.

This is just another way for atheists to exploit and enslave the worlds poor... :)

I bet that Christ hater Longweekend supports 457 visas, meritocracy, right wing death squads, war on terror and every other Atheist apostacy out there... :)

You go corporate whitey, you are slaying them tonight!

Atheism has to be held accountable...the bloody nerve of them... ::) :P