JuLiar just called it

Crean sacked  ;D

Hit me with your best shot says Julia..... ;)

Shambles

I so hope gillard wins.

Can you imagine the divide between gillard being upbeat and thinks she can conquer the world if she won, compared to the Australian people saying 'Get F outa here'.

That can only breed deeper hatred toward her.

Win win win gillard.

I predict a lot of BS will be spoken in the next two hours to 4:30pm, and then a lot of BS afterwards.

;D

Crean tapped her on the shoulder and demanded a Leadership spill, Juliar said no but after a conversation initiated by Anthony Albanese, she changed her mind.  So tell me now, who called it?  Julia...No..... Albanese, yes....I'm tipping she won't have the numbers...Albanese is man the behind the throne.

Just bring the election date forward and spare us the misery  :D

progressiveslol wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 1:37pm:

I so hope gillard wins. Can you imagine the divide between gillard being upbeat and thinks she can conquer the world if she won, compared to the Australian people saying 'Get F outa here'. That can only breed deeper hatred toward her. Win win win gillard.

I think Rudd's got the numbers

Gillard's just called an end to QT so she can start begging

Swagman wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 1:42pm:

Just bring the election date forward and spare us the misery  :D

Great news if it's true?  Yes bring forward the election.

Not there yet but the Red Queen's Crown is tipping all about the place. Please...please...please off with her head.

She is doing Australia in and always has done. Her reign has been a bloody basket case of the right royal order.

Personally, I would like to see Simon Crean given a chance but he has indicated he will not stand which leads us to KRudd...yes as in crud.

The one and only who gave away our national savings in the form 2 $900 cheques. So everyone could piss it up against the wall, which it appears everyone did.

And did it save us from the GFC? Not on your nellie, that money hardly dented the national account figures, that was done by the solid economy John Howard left behind plus a rock solid banking sector.

Good one Crud....and now it seems we are to get you back for the Titanic's last run in to September.

hard to know which outcome i prefer...

Gillard being knifed by Rudd has delicious symmetry but Gillard being massacred by  the electorate has a sense of justice about it.

either way, it is a good day to be a liberal watching the carnage...

Maqqa wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 1:45pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 1:37pm: I so hope gillard wins. Can you imagine the divide between gillard being upbeat and thinks she can conquer the world if she won, compared to the Australian people saying 'Get F outa here'. That can only breed deeper hatred toward her. Win win win gillard. I think Rudd's got the numbers Gillard's just called an end to QT so she can start begging

Hmm it's probaby no contest; spill is called too early for it to be close.

simonhall1900 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 1:48pm:

Swagman wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 1:42pm: Just bring the election date forward and spare us the misery  :D Great news if it's true?  Yes bring forward the election.

They do it too soon and you have the issue of the Senate election

The earliest the Senate can be called is 1st July

I cannot see the Labor Party giving a green light to a spill unless she is gone. The damage if she did survive would be fatal regards the election.

The numbers guys are hoping like hell that Rudd can save them from a bloody massacre in September, which would make Custer's Last Stand look like a picnic.

Gillard to win is the word. Woo hoo.

progressiveslol wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 2:13pm:

Gillard to win is the word. Woo hoo.

No word whether Rudd will even nominate

Maqqa I had word from a friend last night that Kevin Rudd cancelled an overseas trip today at the very last minute, and Kevin Rudd never, ever cancels an overseas trip.

My thoughts....the fix is in.

no matter what result, the ALP just confirms in more people that they dont have their eye on the ball.

Gillard's already 2 down in the votes

Carr is overseas and one other

Crean's been sacked by Gillard  ;D ;D ;D

red baron wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 2:16pm:

Maqqa I had word from a friend last night that Kevin Rudd cancelled an overseas trip today at the very last minute, and Kevin Rudd never, ever cancels an overseas trip. My thoughts....the fix is in.

Albo is the king maker here

Still no word of Rudd standing  :-?

Labor's confusion, bewilderment and utter disorientation has resulted in a general consensus that they don't know what the bugger they are doing. The Milky-Bar Kid or Bill (stretched head) Shortarse. What next Marky Boy Latham.......? ;D

The World awaits with baited breath......NOT

My Prediction is Kevin wins.

1) Gillard will give a teary goodbye.
2) Kevin will say "there is much work to do to restore labors image with the people"
3) The Media will look back on Gillard with rose colored glasses.
4) Tony Abbott will start saying Gillard was a great PM, and Rudd is evil for disposing her.


Politics 101.

Doctor Jolly wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 2:48pm:

My Prediction is Kevin wins. 1) Gillard will give a teary goodbye. 2) Kevin will say "there is much work to do to destroy restore labors image with the people" 3) The Media will look back on Gillard with rose colored glasses. 4) Tony Abbott will start saying Gillard was a great PM, and Rudd is evil for disposing her. Politics 101.

(1) There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead

(2) I will not challenge for leadership again

Rudd is probably waiting until the last minute in an attempt to somehow vindicate his statement about never challenging again.

Apparently there are about 20 MP's in his office atm urging him to stand.

Amadd wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 3:00pm:

Rudd is probably waiting until the last minute in an attempt to somehow vindicate his statement about never challenging again. Apparently there are about 20 MP's in his office atm urging him to stand.

the depth of hatred for Gillard is substantial, is it not? she is doomed no matter what happens.

Amadd wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 3:00pm:

Rudd is probably waiting until the last minute in an attempt to somehow vindicate his statement about never challenging again. Apparently there are about 20 MP's in his office atm urging him to stand.

This is why they started the petition

If Gillard hadn't called the spill - Labor needed 35 signatures to petition Caucus to sit and consider a leadership spill

I think there's more than 35 signatures when Gillard called the spill

oh well looks like its all off then.

I'm dissapointed - I was looking forward to a vote  :(

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 3:28pm:

oh well looks like its all off then. I'm dissapointed - I was looking forward to a vote  :(

there will still be a vote... just no candidates unless Crean gives it a shot. For all we know that was the master plane right from the beginning..

;D ;D ;D

i had to say it but broke down laughing. the ALP with a master plan for ANYTHING???


just more shambles in the leadership front to knock a few more percent off Labor's polls.

Rudd not nominating is actually the best outcome for the LIBs

Can Labor just put us out of our misery, and give us an election NOW.

Maqqa wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 3:37pm:

Rudd not nominating is actually the best outcome for the LIBs

oddly you are right. Gillard gets to pay the price for her political sins in a very public voters execution in 6 months time.

A black day for the ALP.

I'm gonna enjoy watching them regret this.

Don't worry, though, I STILL won't be voting for Tony.

What a bloody joke this Party is, firstly a Leadership spill is called then Kevin Rudd refuses to run, then suddenly there is only one candidate for P.M.....Gillard and one for Deputy Wayne Swan.

This Party is an absolute disgrace and to think we have to put up with this mob of INCOMPETENTS until September is a bloody outrage.

Gillard re-elected un-opposed. I'm glad - it means Labor's anhilation in September will be even bigger. I'm also not surprised. Who would want to lead a ship that is doomed to sink??? Crean was smart in a way by putting his hand up for Deputy. He obviously had an eye on the next term.

And so she also sacks Crean from the front bench.

Nice work Julia - thats unifying a party eh...

i lost 2 one dollar bets at work..

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:07pm:

And so she also sacks Crean from the front bench. Nice work Julia - thats unifying a party eh...

Crean is VERY experienced, and probably has more honesty and
integrity in his little finger than Gillard has in her whole body.

Once Rudd decided to choke, Crean should have nominated.

Gillard's win will destroy the Party.

The ONLY winner here is her ego.

red baron wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 3:49pm:

What a bloody joke this Party is, firstly a Leadership spill is called then Kevin Rudd refuses to run, then suddenly there is only one candidate for P.M.....Gillard and one for Deputy Wayne Swan. This Party is an absolute disgrace and to think we have to put up with this mob of INCOMPETENTS until September is a bloody outrage.

the leadership spill was called to try and put an end to the media speculation ... the media refused to listen to rudd when he repeatedly told them he wouldn't challenge ... now rudd doesn't challenge and you act surprised? Why?

John Smith wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:13pm:

red baron wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 3:49pm: What a bloody joke this Party is, firstly a Leadership spill is called then Kevin Rudd refuses to run, then suddenly there is only one candidate for P.M.....Gillard and one for Deputy Wayne Swan. This Party is an absolute disgrace and to think we have to put up with this mob of INCOMPETENTS until September is a bloody outrage. the leadership spill was called to try and put an end to the media speculation ... the media refused to listen to rudd when he repeatedly told them he wouldn't challenge ... now rudd doesn't challenge and you act surprised? Why?

And then she sacks Simon Crean....

Something is going on here.

I still wouldn't be surprised if she's gone by the end of the week - a la Mills/Ballieu.

This kind of behaviour only makes me more eager and excited to vote out Labor this year.

john_g wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:20pm:

Something is going on here. I still wouldn't be surprised if she's gone by the end of the week - a la Mills/Ballieu. This kind of behaviour only makes me more eager and excited to vote out Labor this year.

Well now she doesn't just have Rudd off side she also the other person with the next amount of numbers after Rudd. Rudd wants to be begged by the likes of Shorten, he wants them to grovel. I don't believe it's over. I think today show a Likely leadership team come election time, Rudd and Crean.

red baron wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 2:16pm:

I had word from a friend last night ...

Oh MY  ... you have a LOT of "friends" !

Going well this Labor Government isn't it Buzz??

;D

Maqqa wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 3:37pm:

Rudd not nominating is actually the best outcome for the LIBs

Macca has three lines of spin ready to cut and paste as required the others were.


Rudd winning is actually the best outcome for the LIBs


Gillard winning is actually the best outcome for the LIBs

The result never mattered Macca had the appropriate spin for the situation.

Dnarever wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:46pm:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 3:37pm: Rudd not nominating is actually the best outcome for the LIBs Macca has three lines of spin ready to cut and paste as required the others were. Rudd winning is actually the best outcome for the LIBs Gillard winning is actually the best outcome for the LIBs The result never mattered Macca had the appropriate spin for the situation.

I dont think it is unfair to say that whatever the outcome, it was going to be bad for Labor. the mere fact of the leadership squabble made it a vote lser. the fact that there were NO CREDIBLE CANDIDATES at all is even worse.

Simon rolled the dice...and lost.

He could be a lot happier not being a Minister in her cabinet and just playing golf etc until September though.

Being out of the limelight has its benefits.

The whole thing just shows proof positive that the whole rudd thing was media hype - showing that we need some caps on media bullshit.

SOB

Think today showed two things:

1) Rudd doesn't have the numbers because too many people remember what he was like as a leader

2) Labor isn't prepared to go into an election with a poor leader who would make a rotten Prime Minister.

I wonder if the Liberals would have done the same?

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 5:17pm:

The whole thing just shows proof positive that the whole rudd thing was media hype - showing that we need some caps on media bullshit. SOB

KRudd said he'd take the PM's job again...only if asked to by the Party [MPs].

When push came to shove, they couldn't convince him to put himself forward for the vote...so the ballot was a big fizzer.

Another Labor joke.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 5:17pm:

The whole thing just shows proof positive that the whole rudd thing was media hype - showing that we need some caps on media bullshit. SOB

did someone at fairfax or murdoch call the leadership spill,  i missed that.  thanks spot

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:55pm:

Dnarever wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 4:46pm: Maqqa wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 3:37pm: Rudd not nominating is actually the best outcome for the LIBs Macca has three lines of spin ready to cut and paste as required the others were. Rudd winning is actually the best outcome for the LIBs Gillard winning is actually the best outcome for the LIBs The result never mattered Macca had the appropriate spin for the situation. I dont think it is unfair to say that whatever the outcome, it was going to be bad for Labor. the mere fact of the leadership squabble made it a vote lser. the fact that there were NO CREDIBLE CANDIDATES at all is even worse.

With Macca it could be a story about duck food and he would spin it into a negative Labor story, then you would support his view.

bambu wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 5:22pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 5:17pm: The whole thing just shows proof positive that the whole rudd thing was media hype - showing that we need some caps on media bullshit. SOB KRudd said he'd take the PM's job again...only if asked to by the Party [MPs]. When push came to shove, they couldn't convince him to put himself forward for the vote...so the ballot was a big fizzer. Another Labor joke.

Yes a big fizzer.

Why would Rudd want to lead a party where more than half of them
stabbed him in the back?

Right now I am having a glass of wine to celebrate Juliar's win.
Six months will pass in the blink of an eye for the electorate, but it will seem like years for her.
The real question is, how low can she go in the polls until then.

Today has been a good day for Labor has it dna?

A senior Minister calling for the PM to leave, panic, sackings and the shambles towards election annihilation rolls on....

It is a bad day.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:43pm:

Going well this Labor Government isn't it Buzz?? ;D

Almost as "well" as that Baillieu Naphthalene LibNat Government in Victoria

( ... OFFICIALLY, Australia's MOST unpopular government - and definite "one termer") 



NOT surprisingly, Victoria has been the FIRST to learn a costly lesson
The Federal ALP vote in Victoria is WAY ahead of the LibNats'

Desperate much Buzz??!

aquascoot wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 5:24pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 5:17pm: The whole thing just shows proof positive that the whole rudd thing was media hype - showing that we need some caps on media bullshit. SOB did someone at fairfax or murdoch call the leadership spill,  i missed that.  thanks spot

Did i say the media called it? No i said the media nas been spinning it. They have been on for weeks about how rudd is going to make a play (even though he had no intention).

SOB

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:55pm:

Dnarever wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 4:46pm: Maqqa wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 3:37pm: Rudd not nominating is actually the best outcome for the LIBs Macca has three lines of spin ready to cut and paste as required the others were. Rudd winning is actually the best outcome for the LIBs Gillard winning is actually the best outcome for the LIBs The result never mattered Macca had the appropriate spin for the situation. I dont think it is unfair to say that whatever the outcome, it was going to be bad for Labor. the mere fact of the leadership squabble made it a vote lser. the fact that there were NO CREDIBLE CANDIDATES at all is even worse.

Today's result confirmed there WAS no "leadership squabble" since Rudd's ONE and ONLY challenge, which he LOST

Rudd NEVER had the numbers
Which is WHY he has never challenged since

buzzanddidj wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 5:43pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 4:55pm: Dnarever wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 4:46pm: Maqqa wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 3:37pm: Rudd not nominating is actually the best outcome for the LIBs Macca has three lines of spin ready to cut and paste as required the others were. Rudd winning is actually the best outcome for the LIBs Gillard winning is actually the best outcome for the LIBs The result never mattered Macca had the appropriate spin for the situation. I dont think it is unfair to say that whatever the outcome, it was going to be bad for Labor. the mere fact of the leadership squabble made it a vote lser. the fact that there were NO CREDIBLE CANDIDATES at all is even worse. Today's result confirmed there WAS no "leadership squabble" since Rudd's ONE and ONLY challenge, which he LOST Rudd NEVER had the numbers Which is WHY he has never challenged since[b] [/b]

No, it was worse. It was part of labors party who were so disappointed in the misandrist gillard PM, that they went it alone in hope to force Rudd to challenge. Rudd has had enough of this disfunctional party, he doesnt even want to lead it any more.

Yep, its much worse than just Rudd challenging.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 5:35pm:

Desperate much Buzz??!

It's a "sport and hobby" to me
NEITHER results would affect me either way
There are larger things in MY life that would/could make me "desperate" in front of these ones

( ... At the MOMENT, I'm DESPERATE for RAIN in Victoria

progressiveslol wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 5:45pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 5:43pm: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 4:55pm: Dnarever wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 4:46pm: Maqqa wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 3:37pm: Rudd not nominating is actually the best outcome for the LIBs Macca has three lines of spin ready to cut and paste as required the others were. Rudd winning is actually the best outcome for the LIBs Gillard winning is actually the best outcome for the LIBs The result never mattered Macca had the appropriate spin for the situation. I dont think it is unfair to say that whatever the outcome, it was going to be bad for Labor. the mere fact of the leadership squabble made it a vote lser. the fact that there were NO CREDIBLE CANDIDATES at all is even worse. Today's result confirmed there WAS no "leadership squabble" since Rudd's ONE and ONLY challenge, which he LOST Rudd NEVER had the numbers Which is WHY he has never challenged since[b] [/b] No, it was worse. It was part of labors party who were so disappointed in the misandrist gillard PM, that they went it alone in hope to force Rudd to challenge. Rudd has had enough of this disfunctional party, he doesnt even want to lead it any more. Yep, its much worse than just Rudd challenging.

You ppl sound so desperate. Seriously gillard called it so she could shut the media up about the leadership crap. Its her thing - its why she called the election early too.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 6:24pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 5:45pm: buzzanddidj wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 5:43pm: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 4:55pm: Dnarever wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 4:46pm: Maqqa wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 3:37pm: Rudd not nominating is actually the best outcome for the LIBs Macca has three lines of spin ready to cut and paste as required the others were. Rudd winning is actually the best outcome for the LIBs Gillard winning is actually the best outcome for the LIBs The result never mattered Macca had the appropriate spin for the situation. I dont think it is unfair to say that whatever the outcome, it was going to be bad for Labor. the mere fact of the leadership squabble made it a vote lser. the fact that there were NO CREDIBLE CANDIDATES at all is even worse. Today's result confirmed there WAS no "leadership squabble" since Rudd's ONE and ONLY challenge, which he LOST Rudd NEVER had the numbers Which is WHY he has never challenged since[b] [/b] No, it was worse. It was part of labors party who were so disappointed in the misandrist gillard PM, that they went it alone in hope to force Rudd to challenge. Rudd has had enough of this disfunctional party, he doesnt even want to lead it any more. Yep, its much worse than just Rudd challenging. You ppl sound so desperate. Seriously gillard called it so she could shut the media up about the leadership crap. Its her thing - its why she called the election early too. SOB

OMG your reputation is accurate.

aquascoot wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 5:24pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 5:17pm: The whole thing just shows proof positive that the whole rudd thing was media hype - showing that we need some caps on media bullshit. SOB did someone at fairfax or murdoch call the leadership spill,  i missed that.  thanks spot

How many times has 'Rudd counting votes' or some such crap apeared in a Fairfax or Murdoch paper in the last fortnight? Gillard had to bring it to a head to end the speculation .. she's a clever girl.

The fake caucus vote wont reassure voters.

I don't mind Pro-wrestling, but Labors choreography is getting predictable and tired.

Similarly,  their controversial new media reform package they knew would never pass both upper and lower houses in it's entirety was merely a diversion, a decoy, a way of subjugating our media who are ignoring  the elephant in the room.

Whilst Gillard insists her position as Labor leader has been emphatically confirmed after Kevin Rudd failed to nominate against her in a leadership spill this afternoon, there was never a doubt.
Rudd wont be returning as Labors leader.

So long as we take an interest, Fairfax & News Ltd will keep giving theses circus clowns oxygen, they will keep performing.

Labor will spill when Bill Shorten is good and ready to assume the leadership, even if this means dragging out a tired ineffective support act such as Crean in between.

For me, September cant come quick enough, for only when we the audience appear disinterested, and start focusing more on the elephant in the room will they spill and bring forward the election date.

Google---Unanswered Questions in Writing – Parliament of Australia.

Take your time, read the list carefully.

Our media need to be focusing more on unanswered questions, scrutinizing Bills before parliament and policy failures

According to The Australian,  The Victorian Police fraud squad investigation into the AWU "slush fund" scandal was drawing to a close.

This was three weeks ago, and we haven't heard so much as a whisper about it since.

Are they delaying the public release of the reports findings?



So many elephants in the room, so little time.....

:)i

John Smith wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 7:12pm:

aquascoot wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 5:24pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 5:17pm: The whole thing just shows proof positive that the whole rudd thing was media hype - showing that we need some caps on media bullshit. SOB did someone at fairfax or murdoch call the leadership spill,  i missed that.  thanks spot How many times has 'Rudd counting votes' or some such crap apeared in a Fairfax or Murdoch paper in the last fortnight? Gillard had to bring it to a head to end the speculation .. she's a clever girl.

I thought it was Simon Crean that brought it on? Another of the best PM's Australia never had. For years I thought Gillard was the Labour Party's great hope for PM. Her ability to speak well at places like the Press club, in particular somewhat ironically, her defence of Simon Crean, had me totally convinced. To say I'm disinchanted would be the understatement of my life. The womens a poisonous xenophobic witch. 

Grey...  there is much more to it than that... 

she isn't anything but an exceptional woman, of unwavering determination... to get things DONE.  Bit scary is it?? 
That women ARE that strong.!!??

Go Julia  ... in this .. I am with you.

Bring on the election.. in September...  a week is a long time in politics...

Rudd was never viable .. he's a  nutso... 
Gillard is the only leader in the ALP worth shite..

Emma wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 11:04pm:

Grey...  there is much more to it than that...  she isn't anything but an exceptional woman, of unwavering determination... to get things DONE.  Bit scary is it??  That women ARE that strong.!!?? Go Julia  ... in this .. I am with you. Bring on the election.. in September...  a week is a long time in politics... Rudd was never viable .. he's a  nutso...  Gillard is the only leader in the ALP worth shite..

Come on Emma,
they are both liars - Labor will lose most of their seats.

John Smith wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 7:12pm:

aquascoot wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 5:24pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 5:17pm: The whole thing just shows proof positive that the whole rudd thing was media hype - showing that we need some caps on media bullshit. SOB did someone at fairfax or murdoch call the leadership spill,  i missed that.  thanks spot How many times has 'Rudd counting votes' or some such crap apeared in a Fairfax or Murdoch paper in the last fortnight? Gillard had to bring it to a head to end the speculation .. she's a clever girl.

Indeed she is, which explains why she goes from blunder to blunder and faces electoral wipe out.

Quote:

Emma Peel - Bit scary is it??  That women ARE that strong.!!??

I'm the father of three women Emma and I've raised them to understand what patriarchy is and what's wrong with it Was a time when Julia Gillard had no more vocal supporter than I. I applauded even as recently as the 'misogyny' speech; though the disenchantment started long before that. Maybe you and I have different 'values'. I despise racists and sexists, I don't excuse racism if it comes from black and I don't excuse homophobia if it comes from woman. How an atheist woman could oppose gay marriage and look a comrade like Penny Wong across the cabinet table is beyond me.

  But don't get me wrong. I'm an Anarchist not a Tony Abbott supporter. It's just got to the stage with her attack on 457 visa holders that I couldn't pass a cigarette paper between them.

I don't think that's chance. I think they're both the product of a system that's fallen into complete corruption.  What I mean by corruption has more to do with the third law of thermodynamics than the passing of brown paper bags. Any system will fail. It doesn't make any difference whether it's a painting, a house, a hard drive, a universe or you and me. Over time little weaknesses grow into big weaknesses. The more complex a system is, the greater the rate of entropy, (think that's the word  ) .

Now you can carry out restoration work on an 'old master' or an important building. You can carry out repairs on people. But you can't put off the inevitable forever. We've extended the life expectancy of people by a decade or two, but it seems likely that's as far as it will go. Of course people are an organic self replicating system which is both as good and as complex as you can imagine.

So for a political system I think it silly to think you don't have to rebuild regularly. Especially given that it's in symbiotic relationship with so many other systems like the financial system; which has been allowed to decay into abstraction.

well grey  .. I take your point... both parties are what they are because of their members and supporters.

PM Gillard lost much of my support when they pursued the liberal line of ''offshore detention" .. of refugees.  Shameful and a failure.
I have sympathy with the 457 Visa position.

You must know that the business community ,  will take the cheapest,  not the best, route.

Education funding and polcy has to be improved massively... why should there be a shortage of skills in australian youth???

Why isn't there  investment in our young folk,  who only really need to embrace the idea of learning... 
apprenticeships?  perhaps there is a better solution.   But I don't agree that 457 visas should be used to import 'labour'.
Knowledge.. to share ? .. expertise in IT ? OK...  but  drs nurses and teachers and public servants??? NO.
It is expected of government that they produce the best outcomes for their citisens..

progressiveslol wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 7:04pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 6:24pm: progressiveslol wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 5:45pm: buzzanddidj wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 5:43pm: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 4:55pm: Dnarever wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 4:46pm: Maqqa wrote on Mar 21st, 2013 at 3:37pm: Rudd not nominating is actually the best outcome for the LIBs Macca has three lines of spin ready to cut and paste as required the others were. Rudd winning is actually the best outcome for the LIBs Gillard winning is actually the best outcome for the LIBs The result never mattered Macca had the appropriate spin for the situation. I dont think it is unfair to say that whatever the outcome, it was going to be bad for Labor. the mere fact of the leadership squabble made it a vote lser. the fact that there were NO CREDIBLE CANDIDATES at all is even worse. Today's result confirmed there WAS no "leadership squabble" since Rudd's ONE and ONLY challenge, which he LOST Rudd NEVER had the numbers Which is WHY he has never challenged since[b] [/b] No, it was worse. It was part of labors party who were so disappointed in the misandrist gillard PM, that they went it alone in hope to force Rudd to challenge. Rudd has had enough of this disfunctional party, he doesnt even want to lead it any more. Yep, its much worse than just Rudd challenging. You ppl sound so desperate. Seriously gillard called it so she could shut the media up about the leadership crap. Its her thing - its why she called the election early too. SOB OMG your reputation is accurate.

Obviously you have nothing to say on topic . . . .

SOB

The Labor Government is a shambles. What more is there to say about them.

They all got 100% behind the leader to foil a media driven spill - looks like the opposite of a shambles to me.

The numbers (apparently) were:

Rudd: 50
Gillard: 44

9 were said to be undecided.

I don't know if Rudd would have won, but the party is very much divided.

The above might be false, but it has been reported a couple of times

Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 9:09am:

The numbers (apparently) were: Rudd: 50 Gillard: 44 9 were said to be undecided. I don't know if Rudd would have won, but the party is very much divided.

It is more likely that no-one ran, even Rudd, because everyone apart from the voters of gillard have lost all hope. Demoralised.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 6:24pm:

You ppl sound so desperate. Seriously gillard called it so she could shut the media up about the leadership crap. Its her thing - its why she called the election early too. SOB

She didn't call it.
Simon Crean did.

She had no intention at the start of the day to do anything of the sort.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/and-the-winner-is-8230-abbott-20130321-2gizk.html

''If he had actually lifted the phone'' to lobby for votes, said one of his dismayed allies, ''he'd be prime minister now.'' But he insisted on the sanctity of his pledge, even though it doomed his cause and exposed his supporters to the wrath of the Prime Minister. Rudd kept his promise, but he has destroyed his credibility as a leadership candidate.

As he entered the caucus room, he paused before the TV cameras and announced that he would not be a candidate. It was a moment of gut-wrenching disappointment for his supporters and gleefully comical anti-climax for his detractors.

By Thursday night, at least three Rudd supporters had paid the price of openly supporting Rudd; Crean had lost his cabinet post, Richard Marles had resigned as parliamentary secretary for foreign affairs, and Joel Fitzgibbon was reconsidering his position as government Whip.

More than 40 MPs had allowed themselves to be counted as his supporters in a caucus of 100 available members. Few will consider repeating that exercise.

One of his most important and effective lieutenants declared: ''I'm over Rudd.'' But in the process, Labor has revealed that almost half the caucus was prepared to vote for Rudd even without him asking. This indicates that Gillard suffers a major deficit of confidence.

Emma wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 12:33am:

well grey  .. I take your point... both parties are what they are because of their members and supporters. PM Gillard lost much of my support when they pursued the liberal line of ''offshore detention" .. of refugees.  Shameful and a failure. I have sympathy with the 457 Visa position. You must know that the business community ,  will take the cheapest,  not the best, route. Education funding and polcy has to be improved massively... why should there be a shortage of skills in australian youth??? Why isn't there  investment in our young folk,  who only really need to embrace the idea of learning...  apprenticeships?  perhaps there is a better solution.   But I don't agree that 457 visas should be used to import 'labour'. Knowledge.. to share ? .. expertise in IT ? OK...  but  drs nurses and teachers and public servants??? NO. It is expected of government that they produce the best outcomes for their citisens..

The 457 visa issue is desperate dog whistle appeal to racism Emma. Her figures weren't rubbery, they were a blatant lie. The fact is industry uses 457 visas for the purpose they are made for and in the overwhelming majority pay the right pay rates. It doesn't get more racist than the "their taking your jobs" appeal.

Australia is a service economy. It's all paid for by carving off bits of the country and selling it. Mountains are turned into holes in the ground and the money from that flows into the pockets of hairdressers and telephone cleaners. There's no hairdressers employed on 457 visas, they're employed by the miners in places unemployed people in Sydney and Melbourne are unwilling to go for a job.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6f1uXgrebM

It's not a side issue beaten up by the opposition, (for once) it is blatant hypocrisy.

The 'left' must now take The Greens seriously, because it's the only horse we've got running in the race.

Must be my imagination then.......how many have resigned or been sacked since this fiasco. I wouldn't call that 100% behind Herr Leader, and that's not counting the gutless 'others' who voted against Gillard but prefer to stay on and rest on their massive salaries.

Grey wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 1:06pm:

The 'left' must now take The Greens seriously, because it's the only horse we've got running in the race.

Greens seriously  ;D ;D ;D

simonhall1900 wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 1:13pm:

Grey wrote on Mar 22nd, 2013 at 1:06pm: The 'left' must now take The Greens seriously, because it's the only horse we've got running in the race. Greens seriously  ;D ;D ;D

Fresh ideas for a new century, spirit of openess. Liberals have nothing to crow about, they're leader is a mirror image of Gillard + budgie.

Grey wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 2:24pm:

simonhall1900 wrote on Mar 22nd, 2013 at 1:13pm: Grey wrote on Mar 22nd, 2013 at 1:06pm: The 'left' must now take The Greens seriously, because it's the only horse we've got running in the race. Greens seriously  ;D ;D ;D Fresh ideas for a new century, spirit of openess. Liberals have nothing to crow about, they're leader is a mirror image of Gillard + budgie.

correct

Grey wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 1:06pm:

The 'left' must now take The Greens seriously, because it's the only horse we've got running in the race.

50%+ tax band??
Yeah, awesome one that grey.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 2:47pm:

Grey wrote on Mar 22nd, 2013 at 1:06pm: The 'left' must now take The Greens seriously, because it's the only horse we've got running in the race. 50%+ tax band?? Yeah, awesome one that grey.

Don't bother me none  ;D In fact I think they may be being a little conservative.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/greens-push-millionaires-tax-to-spare-single-parents-20121228-2bzeo.html