For all of those that denied claims that the state lib leaders haven't signed up to Gonski just to make it difficult for labor, maybe you could ask O'Farrell. He admitted that Abbott went to see the state lib. leaders to ask them not to sign up.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/17241380/schools-to-lose-16-2bn-with-coalition-pm/




Abbotts plans to cut $16 B from education should see him thrown out of the country ... disgraceful.

Not bad the bloke isnt even PM yet and the morons are chirping

so milktree, you don't see anything wrong with Abbott approaching the lib leaders and asking them to not sign up?

I agree with you jacksh1t that our Education should be improved - especially if it's producing the calibre of you then we need to put $1Trillion into the change

there is NO evidence that throwing money at education will "work'

in fact, expenditure adjusted for inflation went up 40 % in the last 10 years as our international rankings went down.

everything looks like a nail when you only have a hammer.
everything has money chucked at it when you only have a brain dead political class with a credit card.

i would rather gonski looked at how to motivate excellence in our schools teachers and students.  if you think the $$$ is all that drives people you are extremely narrow minded and bereft of imagination (this of course describes gillard swan garrett  to a tee)

Facts and Figures and Funding dosn't Educate our young.

People do,

These teachers need to get of their arse and teach our kids properly.


When I was working as a Techers Aide in Queensland a few years ago I saw year 8 boys that couldn't add numbers together. Something that should have been taught in Primary school.

I don't blame the kids or their parents, I blame the teachers for not doing there JOB.

warrigal wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 7:41am:

Facts and Figures and Funding dosn't Educate our young. People do, These teachers need to get of their arse and teach our kids properly. When I was working as a Techers Aide in Queensland a few years ago I saw year 8 boys that couldn't add numbers together. Something that should have been taught in Primary school. I don't blame the kids or their parents, I blame the teachers for not doing there JOB.

Therein is the problem.

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Re: Joe Hockey is preferred Treasurer!!!
Reply #11 - Today at 8:02am Quote
Hockey will still need to be available to step up to be PM, when Satans Labor party discredit Abbott for what he has archived. in the lead up to this election.

Turbull needs to but and and let these two run the leadership.
Back to top      

aquascoot wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 6:30am:

there is NO evidence that throwing money at education will "work'

but there is evidence that schools without adequate resources produce students that on average score lower than in other schools. Gonski isn't just about money, it's about a whole new approach to how we provide that funding.

The same people on here complaining it's about improving the quality of teaching are the same people who oppose the naplan tests and the school rankings on  the websites ... You want to improve teacher outcomes you must first find out which teachers aren't doing their jobs properly. You complain about the teachers and then you complain about the measures used to flush our the waste.   

John Smith wrote on May 19^th, 2013 at 9:41pm:

For all of those that denied claims that the state lib leaders haven't signed up to Gonski just to make it difficult for labor, maybe you could ask O'Farrell. He admitted that Abbott went to see the state lib. leaders to ask them not to sign up. http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/17241380/schools-to-lose-16-2bn-with-coalition-pm/ Abbotts plans to cut $16 B from education should see him thrown out of the country ... disgraceful.

Would that be because the hell or highwater surplus became a $19 Billion dollar DEFICIT?
* D I S G R A C E F U L *

Or is it because the last 5 Labor Budgets have accumulated around $191 *B I L L I O N* dollars in deficits.

That $190 Billion could have paid for several Gonskis and NDISs.... ::)

These 5 deficits need to be repaid either with additional taxes (Yes Labor has already raised taxes to fund it's overspending and passed it off as NDIS funding) :( or funding cuts or asset sales.

If, Abbott is contemplating funding cuts to anything it is A DIRECT RESULT of Labor's incomepetence John Smith. >:(

Of course providing incentive to the business community instead of penalties and extra taxation may increase employment and increase tax revenues but the Coalition will start $191 Billion behind the 8 ball.... :(

The Finnish system is one of the worlds best yet the govt puts less money per student than we do - around 40% less. money isn't the solution. Gonski will only bloat education departments. Finland has independently run and managed public schools. Principals hire and fire staff and manage their own budgets. the education dept there is very small and responsible mainly for the curriculum and paying the bills. and the results are spectacular. In effect, the entire Finnish public education system is run like the private system here.

Abbott is playing into Labors hand if he fights a battle on education.

For as long as history, Labor wins when the battle is on education and health.   Its their strong points.

Gillard will be hoping Pyne and Abbott continue to ark up over Gonski.


And what a petulant display for the whole liberal party to be absent during the NDIS speech to parliment. Again, letting a health issue become top news.

A dangerous game. They arent over the line yet.

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 10:16am:

Abbott is playing into Labors hand if he fights a battle on education. For as long as history, Labor wins when the battle is on education and health.   Its their strong points. Gillard will be hoping Pyne and Abbott continue to ark up over Gonski. And what a petulant display for the whole liberal party to be absent during the NDIS speech to parliment. Again, letting a health issue become top news. A dangerous game. They arent over the line yet.

Not really.  As I mentioned above.  Showing everyone that cares to listen that Gonski and the NDIS could have been fully funded within the budget had Labor not irresponsibly overspent.

The interest bill alone on Labor's accumulated debt would pay for the NDIS.... :(

Swagman wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 10:23am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 20th, 2013 at 10:16am: Abbott is playing into Labors hand if he fights a battle on education. For as long as history, Labor wins when the battle is on education and health.   Its their strong points. Gillard will be hoping Pyne and Abbott continue to ark up over Gonski. And what a petulant display for the whole liberal party to be absent during the NDIS speech to parliment. Again, letting a health issue become top news. A dangerous game. They arent over the line yet. Not really.  As I mentioned above.  Showing everyone that cares to listen that Gonski and the NDIS could have been fully funded within the budget had Labor not irresponsibly overspent. The interest bill alone on Labor's accumulated debt would pay for the NDIS.... :(

The debt line is not working, because Hockey is saying the liberals will produce deficits too. And all economists to a man say that deficits are fine in this economic climate.

For the luddites, a surplus means the govern is taking money out of the economy. Exactly what you dont want when the world economy is fragile.

Swagman wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 9:36am:

John Smith wrote on May 19th, 2013 at 9:41pm: For all of those that denied claims that the state lib leaders haven't signed up to Gonski just to make it difficult for labor, maybe you could ask O'Farrell. He admitted that Abbott went to see the state lib. leaders to ask them not to sign up. http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/17241380/schools-to-lose-16-2bn-with-coalition-pm/ Abbotts plans to cut $16 B from education should see him thrown out of the country ... disgraceful. Would that be because the hell or highwater surplus became a $19 Billion dollar DEFICIT? * D I S G R A C E F U L * Or is it because the last 5 Labor Budgets have accumulated around $191 *B I L L I O N* dollars in deficits. That $190 Billion could have paid for several Gonskis and NDISs.... ::) These 5 deficits need to be repaid either with additional taxes (Yes Labor has already raised taxes to fund it's overspending and passed it off as NDIS funding) :( or funding cuts or asset sales. If, Abbott is contemplating funding cuts to anything it is A DIRECT RESULT of Labor's incomepetence John Smith. >:( Of course providing incentive to the business community instead of penalties and extra taxation may increase employment and increase tax revenues but the Coalition will start $191 Billion behind the 8 ball.... :(

oh Bullsh1t ..... if he can come up with the money for his paid parental leave, he can come up with money for Gonski, its about priorities. .... besdies, that has nothing to do with his blatant attempts to sabotage labor.... he doesn't need to worry about the budget, he's not the PM. Everything Abbott has done for the last 3 years has been about one thing and one thing only, the polls ... he has never put the country first .. this is another example of that.  Once he wins office (if he wins) he can make whatever changes he likes until then , he should butt out of things that don't concern him

post count up

The education department in this country already employs two people for every one job, are they trying to make it three for one?

John Smith wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 10:40am:

oh Bullsh1t ..... if he can come up with the money for his paid parental leave, he can come up with money for Gonski, its about priorities. .... besdies, that has nothing to do with his blatant attempts to sabotage labor.... he doesn't need to worry about the budget, he's not the PM. Everything Abbott has done for the last 3 years has been about one thing and one thing only, the polls ... he has never put the country first .. this is another example of that.  Once he wins office (if he wins) he can make whatever changes he likes until then , he should butt out of things that don't concern him

Just pull out the visa card Smithy that's what Labor does.  Pity it's maxed out.... :(

Innocent bystander wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 11:03am:

The education department in this country already employs two people for every one job

Thats a very sweeping statement with little to back it up.

Swagman wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 11:50am:

John Smith wrote on May 20th, 2013 at 10:40am: oh Bullsh1t ..... if he can come up with the money for his paid parental leave, he can come up with money for Gonski, its about priorities. .... besdies, that has nothing to do with his blatant attempts to sabotage labor.... he doesn't need to worry about the budget, he's not the PM. Everything Abbott has done for the last 3 years has been about one thing and one thing only, the polls ... he has never put the country first .. this is another example of that.  Once he wins office (if he wins) he can make whatever changes he likes until then , he should butt out of things that don't concern him Just pull out the visa card Smithy that's what Labor does.  Pity it's maxed out.... :(

the same visa card he wants to use for paid parental leave? seriously you want to keep repeating that excuse? Abbotts talks the talk, but his priorities are all wrong. I think the country would gain more with the gonski reforms then they we will ever gain with the paid paretnal leave.

longweekend58 wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 9:44am:

The Finnish system is one of the worlds best yet the govt puts less money per student than we do - around 40% less. money isn't the solution. Gonski will only bloat education departments. Finland has independently run and managed public schools. Principals hire and fire staff and manage their own budgets. the education dept there is very small and responsible mainly for the curriculum and paying the bills. and the results are spectacular. In effect, the entire Finnish public education system is run like the private system here.

Who'd have thunk small private businesses could outperform a massive bloated public service run bureaucracy  ? :D :D :D

aquascoot wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 12:19pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 20th, 2013 at 9:44am: The Finnish system is one of the worlds best yet the govt puts less money per student than we do - around 40% less. money isn't the solution. Gonski will only bloat education departments. Finland has independently run and managed public schools. Principals hire and fire staff and manage their own budgets. the education dept there is very small and responsible mainly for the curriculum and paying the bills. and the results are spectacular. In effect, the entire Finnish public education system is run like the private system here. Who'd have thunk small private businesses could outperform a massive bloated public service run bureaucracy  ? :D :D :D

I thought the Finns didn't have private schools ... what small businesses are you referring to?

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 11:52am:

Innocent bystander wrote on May 20th, 2013 at 11:03am: The education department in this country already employs two people for every one job Thats a very sweeping statement with little to back it up.

the govt department with the most employees being paid $300K (by far) is the education dept.

John Smith wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 12:28pm:

aquascoot wrote on May 20th, 2013 at 12:19pm: longweekend58 wrote on May 20th, 2013 at 9:44am: The Finnish system is one of the worlds best yet the govt puts less money per student than we do - around 40% less. money isn't the solution. Gonski will only bloat education departments. Finland has independently run and managed public schools. Principals hire and fire staff and manage their own budgets. the education dept there is very small and responsible mainly for the curriculum and paying the bills. and the results are spectacular. In effect, the entire Finnish public education system is run like the private system here. Who'd have thunk small private businesses could outperform a massive bloated public service run bureaucracy  ? :D :D :D I thought the Finns didn't have private schools ... what small businesses are you referring to?

they run all public schools as private schools, using the same methods and practices as private schools. That was the point.

longweekend58 wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 1:25pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 20th, 2013 at 11:52am: Innocent bystander wrote on May 20th, 2013 at 11:03am: The education department in this country already employs two people for every one job Thats a very sweeping statement with little to back it up. the govt department with the most employees being paid $300K (by far) is the education dept.

Oh, I thought he meant two teachers in every classroom.

There are a few public schools trialling 'independence' where the principal is actually allowed to run the school. they can select or remove teachers and manage their own funding. Watch in the future how this model gets replicated and over 10-20 years education department nationwide get scaled back to the bone.  Then schools will have more money, more teachers, better outcomes and will cost us less than currently!

Why worry about Abbott?
If Labor actually were to implement the Gonski report they would stuff it up anyway.

longweekend58 wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 1:26pm:

they run all public schools as private schools, using the same methods and practices as private schools. That was the point.

I'm not particularly fussed as long as so-called "private school" graduates don't get to be patronising and condescending to "public school" graduates. If everyone is under the same system, that's fine with me because in this case there is no "public" or "private." If they're going to mix traits associated with both public (government-funded, free tuition) and private schools (independent administration) in a universal education system, I don't care if part of it works like a "private" system.

longweekend58 wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 5:36pm:

There are a few public schools trialling 'independence' where the principal is actually allowed to run the school. they can select or remove teachers and manage their own funding. Watch in the future how this model gets replicated and over 10-20 years education department nationwide get scaled back to the bone.  Then schools will have more money, more teachers, better outcomes and will cost us less than currently!

As long as it doesn't lead to class-ism, I'm all for it.

Abbott thinks education funding is ok the way it is???

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/how-privilege-rules-over-school-funding-20130428-2imiu.html

longweekend58 wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 1:26pm:

John Smith wrote on May 20th, 2013 at 12:28pm: aquascoot wrote on May 20th, 2013 at 12:19pm: longweekend58 wrote on May 20th, 2013 at 9:44am: The Finnish system is one of the worlds best yet the govt puts less money per student than we do - around 40% less. money isn't the solution. Gonski will only bloat education departments. Finland has independently run and managed public schools. Principals hire and fire staff and manage their own budgets. the education dept there is very small and responsible mainly for the curriculum and paying the bills. and the results are spectacular. In effect, the entire Finnish public education system is run like the private system here. Who'd have thunk small private businesses could outperform a massive bloated public service run bureaucracy  ? :D :D :D I thought the Finns didn't have private schools ... what small businesses are you referring to? they run all public schools as private schools, using the same methods and practices as private schools. That was the point.

so they are all public schools that are run differently to our system .... they are still public schools no matter how they are run. So again, what small business is outperforming anything? 

What the hell is the federal government doing in education anyway.
Leave it to the states.

longweekend58 wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 1:25pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on May 20th, 2013 at 11:52am: Innocent bystander wrote on May 20th, 2013 at 11:03am: The education department in this country already employs two people for every one job Thats a very sweeping statement with little to back it up. the govt department with the most employees being paid $300K (by far) is the education dept.

But where are the stats to say that there are two people employed for each job??

:D

John Smith wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 9:05pm:

so they are all public schools that are run differently to our system .... they are still public schools no matter how they are run. So again, what small business is outperforming anything?

The Finnish system seems to be a hybrid public/private system.

public = government-funded, free tuition
private = independent administration

longweekend was saying it combines both.


miketrees wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 9:58pm:

What the hell is the federal government doing in education anyway. Leave it to the states.

I think State governments fund public schools and the Federal government funds private schools.

Lobo wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 10:16pm:

[quote author=longweekend58 link=1368963668/21#21 date=1369020344][quote author=Doctor_Jolly link=1368963668/17#17 date=1369014768] But where are the stats to say that there are two people employed for each job?? :D

Obviously you've never worked in the education department.    ... "worked" probably shouldn't even use that term  ;D

Mnemonic wrote on May 20^th, 2013 at 10:38pm:

John Smith wrote on May 20th, 2013 at 9:05pm: so they are all public schools that are run differently to our system .... they are still public schools no matter how they are run. So again, what small business is outperforming anything?  The Finnish system seems to be a hybrid public/private system. public = government-funded, free tuition private = independent administration longweekend was saying it combines both. miketrees wrote on May 20th, 2013 at 9:58pm: What the hell is the federal government doing in education anyway. Leave it to the states. I think State governments fund public schools and the Federal government funds private schools.

he was trying to imply that the Finnish system is better because it is in some way a private school system. It is not in any way a private school system, it is a public system that is run differently to ours.

I think schools should be administered independantly. School principles should have a lot more say in the running of the school. Schools should get a set amount per child and then it is up to the principle to spend that money as they know best. Including hiring and firing of staff etc.

Where will the government get the money to fund Gonski from.

warrigal wrote on May 21^st, 2013 at 2:16pm:

Where will the government get the money to fund Gonski from.

Mining TAX   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

warrigal wrote on May 21^st, 2013 at 2:16pm:

Where will the government get the money to fund Gonski from.

same place they get the money for Abbotts paid parental leave scheme

John Smith wrote on May 21^st, 2013 at 3:56pm:

warrigal wrote on May 21st, 2013 at 2:16pm: Where will the government get the money to fund Gonski from. same place they get the money for Abbotts paid parental leave scheme

the real answer is the same place gillard got it from????... she does have it doesnt she????

I guess shes paid for the report as well...funny how we pay for all these reports remember the Henry Tax report.. he disappeared and so did the report?????

cods wrote on May 21^st, 2013 at 4:28pm:

John Smith wrote on May 21st, 2013 at 3:56pm: warrigal wrote on May 21st, 2013 at 2:16pm: Where will the government get the money to fund Gonski from. same place they get the money for Abbotts paid parental leave scheme the real answer is the same place gillard got it from????... she does have it doesnt she???? I guess shes paid for the report as well...funny how we pay for all these reports remember the Henry Tax report.. he disappeared and so did the report?????

don't kid yourself into believing that the libs don't pay for reports Cods ... at least pretend to be honest.

As far as where Gillard is paying for it, it was outlined in the budget. Keep up.

I think the Gonski plan is pink bats for education. It is a massively expensive misunderstanding of what education actually is.

Abstract
This brief is critical of a number of important premises that lie behind the Gonski report on school funding and the proposed reforms based on that report by the Australian government. Specifically, we: see no reason to make performance on international tests an objective of Australian schooling; doubt the wisdom of increasing the role of the Australian government in schooling; argue the impact of additional resources on student achievement is likely to be small; view the resource standards calculated in the Gonski report as unlikely to achieve what they are intended to do; and believe there is really no possibility of constructing any such objective resource standards.
Melbourne uni policy briefs

It should be 'sabotaged', that is, not allowed to be implemented.

Soren wrote on May 21^st, 2013 at 9:45pm:

I think the Gonski plan is pink bats for education. It is a massively expensive misunderstanding of what education actually is. Abstract This brief is critical of a number of important premises that lie behind the Gonski report on school funding and the proposed reforms based on that report by the Australian government. Specifically, we: see no reason to make performance on international tests an objective of Australian schooling; doubt the wisdom of increasing the role of the Australian government in schooling; argue the impact of additional resources on student achievement is likely to be small; view the resource standards calculated in the Gonski report as unlikely to achieve what they are intended to do; and believe there is really no possibility of constructing any such objective resource standards. Melbourne uni policy briefs It should be 'sabotaged', that is, not allowed to be implemented.

(quote) Pink bats for education.

So more government money will be wasted.
17 Billion deficit, 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ........

Soren wrote on May 21^st, 2013 at 9:45pm:

I think the Gonski plan is pink bats for education. It is a massively expensive misunderstanding of what education actually is. Abstract This brief is critical of a number of important premises that lie behind the Gonski report on school funding and the proposed reforms based on that report by the Australian government. Specifically, we: see no reason to make performance on international tests an objective of Australian schooling; doubt the wisdom of increasing the role of the Australian government in schooling; argue the impact of additional resources on student achievement is likely to be small; view the resource standards calculated in the Gonski report as unlikely to achieve what they are intended to do; and believe there is really no possibility of constructing any such objective resource standards. Melbourne uni policy briefs It should be 'sabotaged', that is, not allowed to be implemented.

correct.
intervention in the professions..teaching, medicine  etc by bureaucrats invariably leads to loss of morale and a burgeoning middle management who (being paid by government) will always side with government leading to further dysfunction at the coalface.  best not to disturb very delicate ecosystems.

one could look at the disastrous consequences on aboriginal communities of successive waves of government intervention as an example.  despite tresurer swan and miss gillard believing more spending will fix any problem, the reality is it wont.

having dispensed with gonski, we now need to dispense with the NDIS.  the weak and vulnerable disabled of australia are far too important to be looked after by a public service army in canberra.  it is cruel to suggest otherwise. >:(