Tarek Fatah, a muslim wrote an excellent article on Jihad doctrine being the cause of Islamic terror which mainstream muslims have lied about for over a decade and continue to lie about today.


Quote:

While ordinary Britons and non muslims around the world are bewildered by these never ending acts of terrorism,the response of the leaders of the Islamic community is the tired old cliche -Islam is a religion of peace, and Jihad is simply an inner struggle. The fact these terrorists are motivated by one powerful belief- the doctrine of armed Jihad against the kuffar (non muslims) is disingenuously denied by Islamic clerics and leaders Yesterday, instead of calling on muslims to shelve the doctrine of armed jihad,predictably the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) issued a quick release claiming the barbaric attack  "has no basis in Islam" Not true,MCB as a muslim i can say without fear, the latest terror attack has a basis in Islam and its time for us muslims to dig our heads out of the sand. It was an opportunity for the muslim leadership to confess they have failed and that the time has come to admit the Jihadis cannot be fought without fighting the doctrine of Jihad It is worth noting that not a single muslim cleric since 9/11 has mustered the courage to say the doctrine of armed jihad is defunct and inapplicable in the 21st century,They rightfully denounce terrorism ,but dare not denounce Jihad Read more here-www.huffingtonpost.ca/tarek-fatah/uk-beheading-jihad-terror_b_3325363.html?utm_hp_ref=world&ir=world

Tarek Fatah is saying mainstream Islam in in denial about the root cause of Islamic terror.

Mainstream muslims have been bullshitting to us for over a decade about Islamic terror.

Mainstream muslims  call Tarek Fatah a murtad which means apostate so dont hold your breath on other muslims joining his views on jihad doctrine unless they are from the ahmadi sect which just happens to be persecuted by mainstream Islam for heretical interpretation of Islam.

Gandalf- are you prepared to denounce the jihad doctrine like Tarek fatah does or do you consider him to be a murtad?

::) ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 4:57pm:

::) ::) ::)

Quote:

He is a murtad secularist.The biggest munafiq (hypocrite) in Canada May Allah destroy him. www.forums.islamicawakening.com/f18/tarek-fatah-abandon-the-doctrine-of-jihad-28336/

;D

Baron, I do chuckle at the way you sift through all the different muslim opinions until you find one that suits your agenda - as if the opinions you want to promote are the only valid ones.

Instead of: "what mainstream muslims say is most likely the accurate version of islam" (ie the commonsense approach), its "mainstream muslims have concocted a huge conspiracy to trick non-muslims - and only a fringe element of muslims speak the truth" That apparently makes the most sense in Baron world.


Baronvonrort wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 4:47pm:

Gandalf- are you prepared to denounce the jihad doctrine like Tarek fatah does or do you consider him to be a murtad?

No, because I don't believe the jihad doctrine in the Quran allows for terrorism like we saw in the UK and Boston. As I'm sure freediver will be happy to explain, jihad has to be formally declared by an islamic government, and only in response to attack from an aggressor. A muslim living in Britain making an attack in the name of jihad is nonsense a) because there is obviously no British islamic nation which has the authority to declare war and b) British muslims are not themselves suffering from attack or oppression by their non-muslim rulers.

And no, claimed association with Afghani, or Iraqi or whatever muslims doesn't fly - because, well, they are simply not associated with those islamic nations.

Then there's the Islamic doctrine to obey the law of the land and remain loyal to their country of residence. And even if that country is oppressing you, islamic doctrine does not say to start fighting them, its leave and go somewhere where you don't get oppressed.

I don't suppose your friend mentioned that little part of islamic law did they Baron?

polite_gandalf wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 7:15pm:

As I'm sure freediver will be happy to explain, jihad has to be formally declared by an islamic government, and only in response to attack from an aggressor. A muslim living in Britain making an attack in the name of jihad is nonsense a) because there is obviously no British islamic nation which has the authority to declare war and b) British muslims are not themselves suffering from attack or oppression by their non-muslim rulers.

I didn't know that jihad has to be formally declared by an islamic government.  Well there you go. 

So I suppose absent that declaration by an Islamic government, beardy weirdies declaring jihad, issuing proclamations about the holy lands and killing others in the name of the religion of peace are not actual real fair dinkum practitioners of an approved jihad and just a bit of nonsense. 

I hope the victims take some solace in that.

gandalf post #3

Surprise, surprise - NOT!

Datalife wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 7:30pm:

I didn't know that jihad has to be formally declared by an islamic government.  Well there you go.

The exhortations to moslems, to 'the Cause of Allah' within ISLAMIC texts are prolific....

"Believers, obey Allah, and obey the Messenger! Those who disbelieve and hinder men from the Cause of Allah, He will not pardon. Do not falter; become faint-hearted, or weak-kneed, crying for peace. You have the upper hand.
Koran 47.33-35


"A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.065
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.080i


"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #001.002.026


and the text....

"To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause."

....is verbatim, from the official Muslim Student Assoc [of America] website text.
[p.s. the last time i looked, those Koran and Hadith texts on the MSA website have been removed.  embarrassment ?]

polite_gandalf wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 7:15pm:

Baron, I do chuckle at the way you sift through all the different muslim opinions until you find one that suits your agenda - as if the opinions you want to promote are the only valid ones. Instead of: "what mainstream muslims say is most likely the accurate version of islam" (ie the commonsense approach), its "mainstream muslims have concocted a huge conspiracy to trick non-muslims - and only a fringe element of muslims speak the truth" That apparently makes the most sense in Baron world. Baronvonrort wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 4:47pm: Gandalf- are you prepared to denounce the jihad doctrine like Tarek fatah does or do you consider him to be a murtad? No, because I don't believe the jihad doctrine in the Quran allows for terrorism like we saw in the UK and Boston. As I'm sure freediver will be happy to explain, jihad has to be formally declared by an islamic government, and only in response to attack from an aggressor. A muslim living in Britain making an attack in the name of jihad is nonsense a) because there is obviously no British islamic nation which has the authority to declare war and b) British muslims are not themselves suffering from attack or oppression by their non-muslim rulers. And no, claimed association with Afghani, or Iraqi or whatever muslims doesn't fly - because, well, they are simply not associated with those islamic nations. Then there's the Islamic doctrine to obey the law of the land and remain loyal to their country of residence. And even if that country is oppressing you, islamic doctrine does not say to start fighting them, its leave and go somewhere where you don't get oppressed. I don't suppose your friend mentioned that little part of islamic law did they Baron?

Mainstream muslims are in denial about Islamic terror, the Muslim council of Britain said it has no basis in Islam and Tarek Fatah says it does.
Mainstream muslims have been bullshitting to non muslims for the last decade about Islamic terror.

It was Abu the absent moderator of the Islam section and not Freediver who claimed a caliph was needed to order Jihad which is more bullshit,there has been no Caliph for nearly 100 years and islamic terror is increasing not decreasing.

I am aware of the verse that tells muslims they must leave the land they are in if they cannot practice islam, if we outlaw Islam then muslims will have to go to a land where they can worship their pedophile prophet, how simple is that to solve our Islamic problem.

Can you cite the verse that says muslims must obey the non Islamic law of the land, i want it from Quran.com or Sunnah.com no other bullshit will be acceptable.

Yadda wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 7:40pm:

Datalife wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 7:30pm: I didn't know that jihad has to be formally declared by an islamic government.  Well there you go.  The exhortations to moslems, to 'the Cause of Allah' within ISLAMIC texts are prolific....

Any saying jihad (in the context of you know, demanding the heads of the unbelievers) can only be formally declared by an Islamic government? 

Datalife wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 7:46pm:

Yadda wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 7:40pm: Datalife wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 7:30pm: I didn't know that jihad has to be formally declared by an islamic government.  Well there you go.  The exhortations to moslems, to 'the Cause of Allah' within ISLAMIC texts are prolific.... Any saying jihad (in the context of you know, demanding the heads of the unbelievers) can only be formally declared by an Islamic government?

Datalife,

Many moslems [as a deflection to criticism of violent moslem behaviour] will claim that there are no ISLAMIC governments, anywhere in teh world.

All of the nominal ISLAMIC governments that we point to, are claimed [by moslems] to be Western ar se licking moslem regimes.

So, violent moslem behaviour [around the world] cannot be held to account - OR, moslems refuse to 'self regulate'.


but see barons post #7, re the authority of the Caliph

Datalife wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 7:30pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 7:15pm: As I'm sure freediver will be happy to explain, jihad has to be formally declared by an islamic government, and only in response to attack from an aggressor. A muslim living in Britain making an attack in the name of jihad is nonsense a) because there is obviously no British islamic nation which has the authority to declare war and b) British muslims are not themselves suffering from attack or oppression by their non-muslim rulers. I didn't know that jihad has to be formally declared by an islamic government.  Well there you go.

Formal, Jihad in the sense of "holy war" does, DL.  However, "Jihad" can also be a personal, spiritual struggle.  Problem is the Takfiri have warped the meaning of the word, as they appear to have so much about Islam, such as the adoption of suicide bombing and Terrorism as a strategy.  Western media have helped them as well.  While certain bigots just believe any old tosh as long as it reinforces their prejudices.


Quote:

So I suppose absent that declaration by an Islamic government, beardy weirdies declaring jihad, issuing proclamations about the holy lands and killing others in the name of the religion of peace are not actual real fair dinkum practitioners of an approved jihad and just a bit of nonsense.

Yes.


Quote:

I hope the victims take some solace in that.

Such disctinctions are important when making sense of such issues, DL.    ::)

Yadda wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 8:02pm:

Datalife wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 7:46pm: Yadda wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 7:40pm: Datalife wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 7:30pm: I didn't know that jihad has to be formally declared by an islamic government.  Well there you go.  The exhortations to moslems, to 'the Cause of Allah' within ISLAMIC texts are prolific.... Any saying jihad (in the context of you know, demanding the heads of the unbelievers) can only be formally declared by an Islamic government?  Datalife, Many moslems [as a deflection to criticism of violent moslem behaviour] will claim that there are no ISLAMIC governments, anywhere in teh world. All of the nominal ISLAMIC governments that we point to, are claimed [by moslems] to be Western ar se licking moslem regimes. So, violent moslem behaviour [around the world] cannot be held to account - OR, moslems refuse to 'self regulate'. but see barons post #7, re the authority of the Caliph

I actually agree.  I was having a poke at the mob who at the same time who can declare that Islam is not a monolith are surprised and object when some beardy wierdy declares jihad and kills people. 

But, but , but, its not real jihad they splutter in indignation.  Do you think those who have had heads hacked off in the name of the non monolithic religion of peace give a poo that the person decapitating them has been declared doctrinally challenged by lefty apologists?

Brian Ross wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 8:22pm:

Quote: So I suppose absent that declaration by an Islamic government, beardy weirdies declaring jihad, issuing proclamations about the holy lands and killing others in the name of the religion of peace are not actual real fair dinkum practitioners of an approved jihad and just a bit of nonsense.  Yes.

Excellent, I look forward to you posting a reference along with a source so that I can determine its authority in stipulating the conditions whereby a jihad to kill others is declared. 

Brian Ross wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 8:22pm:

Problem is the Takfiri have warped the meaning of the word, as they appear to have so much about Islam, such as the adoption of suicide bombing and Terrorism as a strategy.

Why did the 'vast majority of Muslims' let such a 'tiny minority' do that to the whole of Islam??

They can't be a billion fvckn useless puppets, surely??

Islamic terror - Jihad doctrine


ISLAMIC Jihad, which is an official ISLAMIC doctrine, is a 'hate crime', against all non-moslems.

ISLAMIC Jihad, effectively, is 'lawful' moslem violence which specifically targets non-moslems.

Why do our politicians refuse to recognise that fact ?iFROM ISLAM'S PRIMARY THEOLOGICAL TEXT ---->

These are ISLAMIC 'religious' texts which either,
1/ call for violence against non-moslems,
OR,
2/ directly incite moslem distrust and hatred of non-moslems.



"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216


"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah:"
Koran 003.028


"O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?"
Koran 004.144


"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51


"....the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
Koran 4.101


"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123


"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111


"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29


"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."
Koran 3.85


"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..."
Koran 2.193


"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089


"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11


"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of [i.e. for] those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76






Moslems insist that ISLAM is a tolerant and peaceful religion.

Why do our politicians refuse to recognise the truth - that the moslem community is lying to them [our government] and to us ?

Soren wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 9:09pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 8:22pm:   Problem is the Takfiri have warped the meaning of the word, as they appear to have so much about Islam, such as the adoption of suicide bombing and Terrorism as a strategy.  Why did the 'vast majority of Muslims' let such a 'tiny minority' do that to the whole of Islam?? They can't be a billion fvckn useless puppets, surely??

I think no one's more scared of these fundamentalists than are the ordinary, non-political Muslim majority.

This same Muslim majority wouldn't dare convert out of their religion for fear of Death Fatwas being issued against them.

It's like the mafia. Once you join, you're in for good ~ like it or not.

Soren wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 9:09pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 8:22pm:   Problem is the Takfiri have warped the meaning of the word, as they appear to have so much about Islam, such as the adoption of suicide bombing and Terrorism as a strategy.  Why did the 'vast majority of Muslims' let such a 'tiny minority' do that to the whole of Islam??

Who says it has happened to the "whole of Islam", Soren?

The MSM doesn't ever question their credentials.  You seem to never question their credentials, yet you accept what they say as being well, "Gospel" for some reason.   ::)


Quote:

They can't be a billion fvckn useless puppets, surely??

Who suggests they are?  The Takfiris want them to be however they seem to be resisting their encroachments, which is why they are, more often than not, the real targets of Takfiri violence, Soren.   Violence which you seem not able to recognise for some reason...   ::)

Lord Herbert wrote on May 26^th, 2013 at 9:23pm:

Soren wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 9:09pm: Brian Ross wrote on May 26th, 2013 at 8:22pm:   Problem is the Takfiri have warped the meaning of the word, as they appear to have so much about Islam, such as the adoption of suicide bombing and Terrorism as a strategy.  Why did the 'vast majority of Muslims' let such a 'tiny minority' do that to the whole of Islam?? They can't be a billion fvckn useless puppets, surely?? I think no one's more scared of these fundamentalists than are the ordinary, non-political Muslim majority. This same Muslim majority wouldn't dare convert out of their religion for fear of Death Fatwas being issued against them. It's like the mafia. Once you join, you're in for good ~ like it or not.

My, Herbie, are you letting your real opinions show through for a change?  That post was almost sympathetic...

The reality is that if the majority of Muslims were cowered by the Takfiri, the Takfiri wouldn't need to keep killing the moderates, now would they?

What we are observing, I'd suggest is a billion small decisions made by a billion small people, not to comply with the Takfiri viewpoint.

Unfortunately, some in the West condemn such quiet defiance for inaction.   ::)