How can we have any confidence in any moslem communication with us ?


How can we have any confidence in anything, which moslems, or the moslem community, tell us ?

Dictionary;
confidence = =
1 the belief that one can have faith in or rely on someone or something.
2 a feeling of self-assurance arising from an appreciation of one’s own abilities.


It can easily be demonstrated that moslems will routinely lie and misrepresent the nature and the intents of ISLAM, when communicating to those outside of their own 'camp'.

Dictionary;
routine = = a sequence of actions regularly followed; a fixed unvarying programme.



So, i ask, how can we believe anything which moslems, or the moslem community, tell us ?

It is my proposition that we cannot have confidence in anything, ANYTHING AT ALL, which moslems, or the moslem community, tell us.

e.g.
How can any 'narrative' which moslems communicate to us, have any credibility, when [in debate or in direct face-to-face communication] with us, moslems reveal [time and time again], that the words which are used by moslems can mean whatever moslems want those words to mean [sophistry] ?

But when the words which are used by moslems, do not mean, what we normally expect those words to mean !

It is my contention that, SOPHISTRY AND BLATANT LYING, are the two principle methods that moslems will use to deceive us [...we who are deemed to be their enemies].

But imo, it is sophistry [effecting intellectual deceit/cunning] which is probably the most common technique which is being used by moslems, in their communication with non-moslems.

In the moslem/ISLAMIC context, sophistry - essentially means [psychologically] redefining the meaning of common words [and phrases], so that those words [and phrases] can [now also] mean what you [the moslem] want those words [and phrases] to mean.

e.g.
These are just a few  examples of common words [and phrases] whose meanings [have not so much been changed, but whose meanings] have been appended, by the moslem psyche;
Peace = = submission to Allah's will            [we all want peace, don't we ?      "We moslems want to see peace cover all of the earth."]

Terrorism = = resisting Allah's will, by rejecting ISLAM            [we are all against the violence of terrorism, aren't we ?      "We moslems condemn acts of terrorism."]

Innocent people = = only moslems            [we all abhor acts of terrorism against Innocent people, don't we ?      "We moslems condemn the killing of all innocent people."]


e.g.
abu viewing osama positively
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1304755026/22#22

Quote:

June 26, 2007 HARDLINE Islamic cleric Abu Bakar Bashir said today that extremists blamed for Indonesian bombings were role models for other Muslims and feted them as "counter-terrorists." "There are no terrorists in Indonesia. What there are, are counter-terrorists," Bashir said.

It will become clear when engaging in debate with moslems, that the moslem psyche has appended the meaning of many common English words, so that [now] the moslem can use those words in their arguments with non-moslems, but, in a circumstance where the non-moslems are forced [intellectually] to still interpret the words that the moslem uses [in his argument] with their common meaning, but where [in actuality] moslems have already assigned [or appended] a different meaning to those words, for the purposes of engaging in intellectual argument with their enemies.

To the moslem mind, this is not seen as intellectual dishonesty, but is ['accepted' by him as] a 'legitimised' mental cunning.

And so it is with the blatant sophistry which is practiced by moslems.

This sophistry used by moslems, to appended the meaning of many common words [and phrases], is a supreme act of intellectual duplicity and dishonesty - but this dishonesty is made 'lawful' because this intellectual dishonesty is conducted against the enemies of Allah/moslems.

The sophistry as is used by moslems is a psychological slight of hand, which for moslems, [on a psychological and 'transactional' level] transforms their [moslem] deceit into meritorious [moslem] intellectual intelligence/cunning.

And moslems view this, their 'intellectual advantage' over the infidel, as proving Allah's favor towards them [moslems], and moslems view this 'intellectual coup' as being provided by Allah.

Moslems certainly, do not see themselves as engaged in intellectual argument with fair and honest persons, but as engaging in intellectual warfare with infidels, demons incarnate, who have rejected Allah's perfect religion.

Every act[tion] is justified in ISLAM.






SO WHAT CAN WE CONCLUDE FROM THIS UNDERSTANDING OF MOSLEM SOPHISTRY ?

THIS;
The words which we will hear moslems use, do not mean what >> we << think that they mean.
The words which moslems use, only mean what moslems want them to mean - and nothing more.


e.g.
"ISLAM is peace." [is mentally 'translated' as; "ISLAM is the religion of submission to Allah's will."]
and the declaration;
"We [moslems] condemn the killing of all innocent civilians." [the meaning of that statement was clarified, on hearing a statement by another moslem community spokesman; "....when we say innocent people, we mean muslims."]

some of the posts by Yadda, where moslem sophistry is examined...
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1354364015/14#14
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1327547890/38#38
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1314069846/179#179
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1327763527/22#22
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1295543010/13#13

There is an over-arching 'constraint' which always governs the content of all moslem communication with all other persons or groups - which relates specifically to the [subject of the] type of relationship moslems are obligated to have with 'disbelievers'.





The 'constrained' content of all moslem communication with all other persons or groups, always depends upon whether the audience is a moslem audience or a non-moslem audience.

And the 'form' of this 'constraint' of content, reveals that moslem communication with all other [non-moslem] persons or groups is [almost always] totally duplicitous and deceitful - on the part of the moslem.

And this is the form that that over-arching 'constraint' [of content] takes;

TO A MOSLEM AUDIENCE;
Whenever moslems communicate among themselves, moslems will [often] declare the Jihad [i.e. Allah's cause].
And moslems will affirm among themselves, the right of the moslems to violently impose ISLAM and ISLAM's 'legal' strictures [enslavement] upon all other peoples.

TO A NON-MOSLEM AUDIENCE;
Whenever moslems communicate with a group of stronger and independent non-moslems, moslems will >> always << misrepresent ISLAM to those other non-moslem peoples.
ISLAM will always [deceitfully] be portrayed, by moslems, as a non-threatening philosophy, and as a tolerant and benign 'religious' philosophy.

For a ready example of this duplicitous communication, watch;

Google YouTube;
undercover mosque



What is clearly revealed in the 'Undercover Mosque' production, is that if any evidence showing moslem enmity towards non-moslems is [exposed] overheard/uncovered, the moslem [response] will insist that the evidence [against moslem sincerity in their communication] is a blatant lie, and moslems will [simply] deny the validity of that evidence.
Or, the moslem will claim that the evidence is being misinterpreted, or, misrepresented [by 'hatemongers' and 'bigots'], so as to >> unfairly << attack moslems and misrepresent ISLAM.



The insurmountable problem for moslems is that, within its own 'religious' texts, ISLAM itself reveals the true nature of the 'relationship' a moslem  must always have with an 'unbeliever'.

Enmity.

e.g. Koran 3.28, Koran 4.144, Koran 2.89, Koran 9.123, Koran 2.98, Koran 60.1, Koran 5.51

But moslem denial will always rise to the fore, and moslems will insist that >> ISLAMIC texts << are always being 'misinterpreted' by those non-moslems who examine them.

And moslems will insist that those >> ISLAMIC texts << which call for [never ending] religious violence against 'disbelievers', do not [actually] call for [never ending] religious violence against 'disbelievers' !





CONCLUSION;
Moslem claims of sincere and honest communication with non-moslems, are always [eventually] shown/proven to be false claims - when examined against all of the facts/evidence.

ANOTHER YADDA POST....
Falah: Jews are 'parasites'
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1327483631/13#13

Quote:

"Abu, I would trust moslems, if i did not know that moslems are 'openly' a deceitful people. Personally, i am convinced that moslems typically, only tell the truth, about their relationship with infidels, ...when moslems talk among themselves. It is my opinion, that moslems typically, ARE LIARS, and will blatantly, and intentionally, and deceitfully misrepresent ISLAM to infidels, whenever they are talking to infidels."

I will present some examples of this duplicitous over-arching 'constraint' of content [referred to in previous post], which is evident in all moslem communication.

Examples [below] where moslems have inadvertently exposed the duplicitous and deceitful nature of their communication.



+++

DECEIT EXAMPLE #1,
GOOD MOSLEM SPEAKS TO NON-MOSLEM AUDIENCE
A UK moslem community leader, speaking in the wake of the London 7/7 bombing;

Quote:

"We condemn the killing of all innocent civilians."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article552594.ece

#1,
THE KICKER...

Quote:

"...Later when he addressed his own followers he explained that he had in fact been referring only to Muslims as only they were innocent: "Yes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar." "

DECEIT EXAMPLE #2,
GOOD MOSLEM SPEAKS TO NON-MOSLEM AUDIENCE

Quote:

"The Undercover Mosque: The return" "A group of Christians visiting the mosque and the preacher and the Women's Circle treat [the Christians] kindly and talk about, 'We're all people of the book and we all come from the same history'."

#2,
THE KICKER...

Quote:

"Just as soon as that group of visitors [the Christians] leaves, the language changes completely. 'CHRISTIANITY IS VILE', the preacher says....."

Source;

Quote:

ABC Radio National Religion interview transcript  - "The Undercover Mosque: The return" ".....Stephen Crittenden: .....your program highlights a certain kind of duplicity. When they're caught out, individuals don't miss a [beat], they just say they've been taken out of context.... David Henshaw: ......Regent's Park Mosque is officially committed to inter-faith dialogue....."

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/religionreport/the-undercover-mosque/3183906#transcript



We non-moslems who are members of 'religious' communities [particularly Christians and Jews] need to realise, that intentional, blatant, and malicious deceit, is being directed to us from the moslem community.
Blatant lies, describing a 'tolerant', 'peaceful' ISLAM, is declared by moslems, as part of the moslem 'inter-faith dialogue', with people of other faiths. But these are blatant lies.








DECEIT EXAMPLE #3,
GOOD MOSLEM SPEAKS TO A *MOSLEM* AUDIENCE

Quote:

Use children as troops, says cleric [Sheik Feiz Mohammed] January 18, 2007 ..."We want to have children and offer them as soldiers...Teach them this: There is nothing more beloved to me than wanting to die as a mujahid (holy warrior). Put in their soft, tender hearts the zeal of jihad and a love of martyrdom." ......"The peak, the pinnacle, the crest, the highest point, the pivot, the summit of Islam is jihad," he declares in the film, before denouncing "kaffirs" (non-Muslims). "Kaffir is the worst word ever written, a sign of infidelity, disbelief, filth, a sign of dirt."

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=94224
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/014863.php

#3,
THE EXACT SAME GOOD MOSLEM LATER SPEAKS TO NON-MOSLEM AUDIENCE - WHO HAVE BECOME AWARE OF HIS PREVIOUS STATEMENTS

Quote:

Fiery Australian cleric claims jihad remarks were misunderstood "The jihad I speak of is not one of violence,"... "I don't believe in suicide bombing. I don't believe in violence against others," he said. "We denounce that. This is not Islamic law and it is not moral."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/01/fiery-australian-cleric-claims-jihad-remarks-were-misunderstood.html





Sheik Feiz declares;
"....violence against others,..This is not Islamic law and it is not moral.";

Sheik Feiz duplicity is exposed, in the face of this open declaration within the Koran.....

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

Yadda quoting himself and agreeing with himself.  Mmm, what is wrong with this picture?   ::)

DECEIT EXAMPLE #4,
GOOD MOSLEMS SPEAK PLAINLY TO A *MOSLEM* AUDIENCE

Quote:

February 11, 2008 Turkey Jihadist website to Muslims: "If you want Allah to grant you victory, every one of you must kill an infidel!"

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/019900.php
and;

Quote:

December 31, 2007 Pakistan Cleric: "We want Islamic law for all Pakistan and then the world. We would like to do this by preaching. But if not then we would use force."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/019399.php

#4,
GOOD MOSLEMS SPEAK TO NON-MOSLEM AUDIENCE - blatant deceit
'ISLAM IS PEACE!', declare the moslem community, in the UK
source;

Quote:

"An advertising campaign promoting British Muslims as integrated citizens who reject extremism has been launched."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/018326.php

IMAGE....
http://www.jihadwatch.org/London_Bus_2.jpg
A moslem advertising campaign [2007] in the UK, promoting British moslems as normal, integrated citizens, who reject extremism;
"PROUD TO BE A.....MOSLEM"








DECEIT EXAMPLE #5,
GOOD MOSLEM SPEAKS TO A *MOSLEM* AUDIENCE

Quote:

25 May 2007 "......Al-Faisal spent years travelling the UK preaching racial hatred urging his audience to kill Jews, Hindus and Westerners."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6692243.stm

#5,
SAME GOOD MOSLEM, WHEN CONFRONTED BY A NON-MOSLEM AUDIENCE - blatant deceit

Quote:

"......[Al-Faisal] throughout [his] trial...denied he had intended to incite people to violence."

CONSIDER;
Funny isn't it [the Al-Faisal story above], how Al-Faisal was able to spend years travelling the UK, preaching racial hatred [we are always led to presume, to 'peaceful' and 'moderate' moslem audiences], without once being openly, publicly, denounced by the UK's 'peaceful' moslem community???

I find that fact, in-credible.





DECEIT EXAMPLE #6,
MOSLEM SPEAKING TO, ....MOSLEMS
A moslem, who is an ISLAMIC scholar, gives 'religious' advice to moslems, who are living within non-moslem host nations...


Quote:

Live in peace till strong enough to wage jihad, says UK Deoband scholar to Muslims London, Sept.8 [2007] A Deobandi scholar believes Muslims should preach peace till they are strong enough to undertake a jihad, or a holy war. Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani was quoted by the BBC as saying that Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, only until they gain enough power to engage in battle. A former Sharia judge in Pakistan's Supreme Court, 64-year-old Usmani, is...a regular visitor to Britain. Polite and softly spoken.... He agreed that it was wrong to suggest that the entire non-Muslim world was intent on destroying Islam, but justifies an aggressive military jihad as a means of establishing global Islamic supremacy.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2409833.ece






A PROPOSITION IN LOGIC;
The contents of ISLAM's own foundation texts, the Koran and Hadith, and the unguarded declarations of many moslems themselves,
....ARE A WITNESS AGAINST THE CRIMINAL INTENT OF MOSLEMS - TOWARDS THOSE WHO ARE NOT MOSLEMS.






Quote:

A Study in Muslim Doctrine "...while sincere friendship with non-Muslims is forbidden, insincere friendship - whenever beneficial to Muslims - is not."

http://www.meforum.org/2512/nidal-hasan-fort-hood-muslim-doctrine



Quote:

Raymond Ibrahim: How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior [in dealings with infidels, moslems should....] Preach peace when weak, wage war when strong.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/01/raymond-ibrahim-how-circumstance-dictates-islamic-behavior.html






And there are lots, lots, more examples available of moslem deceit and duplicity, in their everyday 'conversation' with non-moslems !!!

Brian Ross wrote on May 29^th, 2013 at 12:12am:

Yadda quoting himself and agreeing with himself.  Mmm, what is wrong with this picture?   ::)

Yadda quoting himself and agreeing with himself.  Mmm, what is wrong with this picture?

Yadda stating a reasoned opinion,      and providing evidence which supports my opinion.

I leave it to others to decide if my opinion, has any merit.iDictionary;
bigot = =
1  a person who is prejudiced in their views and intolerant of the opinions of others.
2  a person who expresses an opinion/view which does not coincide with the opinion/views of Brian_Ross.

Why would moslems continually and blatantly try to deceive us - unless it is for some nefarious and damnable purpose ?





And aren't moslems insulting us [taking us for easily led fools], in their attempted deceit towards us ?

It is now 2013, and things have moved along for us, since Sept, 11, 2001.

Since the atrocity of 9/11, and the fact that the perp's were associated with ISLAM, many common people have been seeking to inform themselves, about what exactly ISLAM is.

With access to the internet available to almost everyone today, no one needs to be uninformed about what ISLAM 'represents'.

And do moslems think that we [non-moslems] are not paying attention, when moslems say one thing, to us [a non-moslem audience], but then will communicate something entirely different when moslems speak among themselves [i.e. to a moslem audience] ?



For a ready example of this duplicitous communication, watch;

Google YouTube;
undercover mosque



Please watch this YT...
"A non-moslem in a moslem country, is like a cow. You can take him [enslave him], or kill him."
Muslims being deceptive Islam EX-Muslims                        goto 4m 30s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZx8cNSC9O0



YT
KILLING OF NON-MUSLIMS IS LEGITIMATE
"...when we say innocent people, we mean moslems."
"....[not accepting ISLAM] is a crime against God."
"...If you are a non-moslem, then you are guilty of not believing in God."
"...as a moslem....i must have hatred towards everything which is non-ISLAM."
"...[moslems] allegiance is always with the moslems, so i will never condemn a moslem for what he does."
"...Britain has always been Dar al Harb [the Land of War]"
"...no, i could never condemn a moslem brother, i would never condemn a moslem brother. I will always stand with my moslem brother....whether he is an oppresser or the oppressed."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4





And because it is clear that there are many, many, liars and deceivers within the moslem 'camp', how can we [non-moslems] believe anything which moslems tell us [directly] ?

How can we [the non-moslem community] believe anything that is communicated to us, about ISLAM and about the type of relationship moslems want with us, when [on that subject] again, and again, moslems are shown to be being duplicitous and deceitful in their communication with us ?




+++



WHAT DOES THE 'RELIGION' OF ISLAM DO, TO THE PSYCHE OF HUMAN BEINGS ?





This [below] are typical examples of the [resultant] worldview which ISLAM, pure ISLAM, UNDENIABLY inculcates into the moslem psyche....



In the UK, a moslem community leader speaking >> BEFORE << the London 7/7 Bus and Subway bombings....

Attack on London 'inevitable'
April 19, 2004
"We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, innocents and non-innocents. Only between Muslims and unbelievers. And the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity."
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/19/1082326119414.html?from=storyrhs&oneclick=true





AND;

Speaking in the UK, publicly, AND THEN PRIVATELY, regarding the London 7/7 bombing victims.

"......In public interviews Bakri condemned the killing of all innocent civilians. Later when he addressed his own followers he explained that he had in fact been referring only to Muslims as only they were innocent: Yes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1724541,00.html

Yadda wrote on May 29^th, 2013 at 9:23am:

Why would moslems continually and blatantly try to deceive us - unless it is for some nefarious and damnable purpose ?

Do they?  None of my Muslim friends ever has.  Must be something the water you're drinking mate which makes you see such illusions.  Do you hear voices as well?   ;D  ;D ;D

|dev|null wrote on May 29^th, 2013 at 2:39pm:

Yadda wrote on May 29th, 2013 at 9:23am: Why would moslems continually and blatantly try to deceive us - unless it is for some nefarious and damnable purpose ? Do they?  None of my Muslim friends ever has. ...  ;D  ;D ;D

Dhimmi!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

|dev|null wrote on May 29^th, 2013 at 2:39pm:

Yadda wrote on May 29th, 2013 at 9:23am: Why would moslems continually and blatantly try to deceive us - unless it is for some nefarious and damnable purpose ? Do they?  None of my Muslim friends ever has.

Hey Hot Breath,

Oh of course not!        ;)


But answer me this, Hot Breath;
If your moslem friends are deceiving you,      you would know, HOW exactly ?

Duh!


Not another Western Sydney uni graduate, are you ?          :P




Hey Hot Breath, here is a hot tip for you;
If you ever visit the crocodile park, stay on this side of the fence.

OK ?       8-)

Lionel Edriess wrote on May 29^th, 2013 at 9:02pm:

|dev|null wrote on May 29th, 2013 at 2:39pm: Yadda wrote on May 29th, 2013 at 9:23am: Why would moslems continually and blatantly try to deceive us - unless it is for some nefarious and damnable purpose ? Do they?  None of my Muslim friends ever has. ...  ;D  ;D ;D Dhimmi!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Bigot!   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Yadda wrote on May 29^th, 2013 at 9:25pm:

|dev|null wrote on May 29th, 2013 at 2:39pm: Yadda wrote on May 29th, 2013 at 9:23am: Why would moslems continually and blatantly try to deceive us - unless it is for some nefarious and damnable purpose ? Do they?  None of my Muslim friends ever has. Hey Hot Breath, Oh of course not!        ;) But answer me this, Hot Breath; If your moslem friends are deceiving you,      you would know, HOW exactly ?

How do we know you aren't deceiving us, Yadda?   ;D ;D ;D

Quote:

Who really speaks for Islam? [quote] I'VE seen this before. A Muslim terrorist slays a non-Muslim citizen in the West, and representatives of the Muslim community rush to dissociate themselves and their faith from the horror.    After British soldier Lee Rigby was hacked to death last week in south London, Julie Siddiqi, for the Islamic Society of Britain, stepped before the microphones to attest that all good Muslims were "sickened" by the attack, "just like everyone else". This happens every time. Muslim men wearing suits and ties or women wearing stylish headscarves are sent out to reassure the world that these attacks have no place in real Islam, that they are aberrations and corruptions of the true faith. But then what to make of Omar Bakri? He, too, claims to speak for the true faith, though he was unavailable for cameras in England last week because the Islamist group he founded, Al Muhajiroun, was banned in Britain in 2010. Instead, he talked to the media from Tripoli in Lebanon, where he now lives. Michael Adebolajo - who was seen on a video at the scene of the Woolwich murder, talking to the camera while displaying his bloody hands and a meat cleaver - was Bakri's student a decade ago. "A quiet man, very shy, asking lots of questions about Islam," Bakri recalled last week. The teacher was impressed to see in the grisly video how far his shy disciple had come, "standing firm, courageous, brave. Not running away". Bakri also told the press: "The Prophet said an infidel and his killer will not meet in Hell. That's a beautiful saying. May God reward (Adebolajo) for his actions . . . I don't see it as a crime as far as Islam is concerned." ... And yet, after nearly a decade of similar rhetoric from Islamists around the world, last week the Guardian could still run a headline quoting a Muslim Londoner: "These poor idiots have nothing to do with Islam." Really? Nothing? Of course, the overwhelming majority of Muslims are not terrorists or sympathetic to terrorists. Equating all Muslims with terrorism is stupid and wrong. But acknowledging there is a link between Islam and terror is appropriate and necessary. ...

I am told I cannot post links.  Well I believe in referencing my gear so the above is from an article Who really speaks for Islam? byAyaan Hirsi Ali,  The Wall Street Journal, May 29, 2013