How many new start up companies have been destroyed by Labor's tax?
You can get taxed on shares that may be worthless one day -
taxed before you even cash them in.
See the example below.

It stinks & shows Labor wants to destroy all business & destroy our country.

Why does Labor want to destroy our country?


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-30/start-ups-say-tax-laws-are-crippling-their-viability/4724090


Quote:

The ABC understands the Federal Government has been forced to look for a fix to tax laws which start-ups say are crippling their viability. At the CeBIT business technology exhibition in Sydney, it was a talking point among the 100 start-ups that gathered to show off their wares. Fast growth companies, or start-ups, have been complaining since 2009 about what they say are complex and onerous laws surrounding Employee Share Option Programs (ESOPs). ESOPs are a critical currency for luring talent away from big companies with the promise of big rewards if the business is sold. But unlike in the United States, the shares are taxed from the moment they are offered - despite not having any real value. For instance, imagine you joined a start-up worth $1 million with a salary of $50,000 and a 10 per cent share of the company. You could not cash that 10 per cent share in until the company is sold in the future. In the eyes of the tax man, your income is $150,000, even though you only earned a $50,000 salary. After the tax office has taken its share of $43,447, you are left with just $6,553. "It's like walking into a newsagency, buying a lotto ticket for $10 and then having to pay another $100 in case you win," said Mick Liubinskas, the chief executive of Pollenizer. Pollenizer is a company working to foster the development of start-ups in Australia. "When you're starting a brand new company you're starting with typically no money - so you've got a big idea, lots of potential ... but there's no money," Mr Liubinskas said. "What you do is carve up the company and you share it between you. "Where it becomes really difficult is when you start to have some success...when you've got some value but you don't have enough cash but you're trying to lure someone away from a big salary." Norton Rose lawyer Nick Abrahams says copying the model in the United States would be the best solution. "In a nutshell, the American laws tax employee share options when the employee exercises the option," he said. "So once you exercise the option you would then have money so you would be able to pay the tax." It's understood Communications Minister Stephen Conroy's update to the National Digital Economy Strategy will consider the issue. The strategy is expected to be released in a few weeks.

Explains why there are little hi-tech startups operating in this country :(

They prefer to put 13 billion a year back into the pockets of property hoarders and speculators through negative gearing tax rorts instead of creating real jobs based on new ideas and inventions from prospective startups. It's little wonder why we don't have companies of the likes of google and apple here and why they have to keep doling out bribe money to get foreign car companies to make cars for us :(

And note how they are taxing the notional value of the shares which are only really valuable when the business has got off the ground and proved to be successful which could take years. Meanwhile how do you pay your bills with worthless shares ? The government is like a bunch of grave robbers :(

This place is well and truly f.cked :(

Endless cash from gillard for start up people smuggler business's though  :(

Sir lastnail wrote on May 31^st, 2013 at 2:21pm:

Explains why there are little hi-tech startups operating in this country :( They prefer to put 13 billion a year back into the pockets of property hoarders and speculators through negative gearing tax rorts instead of creating real jobs based on new ideas and inventions from prospective startups. It's little wonder why we don't have companies of the likes of google and apple here and why they have to keep doling out bribe money to get foreign car companies to make cars for us :( And note how they are taxing the notional value of the shares which are only really valuable when the business has got off the ground and proved to be successful which could take years. Meanwhile how do you pay your bills with worthless shares ? The government is like a bunch of grave robbers :( This place is well and truly f.cked :(

Yes Nail,
no wonder jobs are going overseas - the tax rules in this country just see any business
as a cash cow for a bankrupt Government.
The Govt. will drain any business dry & wreck it.

This Labor Govt. is anti-business & anti-jobs.

No wonder just about everyone I know has lost their job.

I posted some time ago about how labors laws are making things so much harder for small business. this is just another example.

longweekend58 wrote on May 31^st, 2013 at 6:00pm:

I posted some time ago about how labors laws are making things so much harder for small business. this is just another example.

Yes Longweekend,
we need to copy the tax laws in the USA which encourage startup business & innovation.

Never mind - Tony will organize it soon.

Very odd indeed, but given their current budget situation I'd doubt they will change it anytime sooner.  What a waste, what nonsensical bullcrap this tax is.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on May 31^st, 2013 at 6:17pm:

Very odd indeed, but given their current budget situation I'd doubt they will change it anytime sooner.  What a waste, what nonsensical bullcrap this tax is.

Even a small business with only  20 employees has to hire an accountant
full time to try to ensure that tax laws are complied with -
what a waste of money for any business.

Now many more businesses will have to send their tax off monthly instead of once per year.

Farmers have to pay provisional tax for crops that are not even in the ground.
They have to borrow money to pay the tax or the tax Dept. will sue them in court
& take their farm from them - that's if the bank doesn't do it first.

This whole country is being destroyed by outrageous tax laws.

We will all be down at Centerlink before long.

I hope that Tony Abbott will fix these crazy laws when he comes to power & get the economy moving again.

Doesn't anyone have other ridiculous tax laws that they could add to the list?

It seems the all Governments tax businesses out of existence.
This is costing jobs.
Will Tony fix it?

One analysts has suggested that the Libs could massively increase their already large lead by promising a wide range of small business reforms of which this is just one example. even a labor-leaning small business owner being hampered by labors anti-business, pro-union, pro regulation regime could be moved the liberal side by a policy to make things easier for them. and that is without a relaxation of the IR laws that are draconian in many ways already.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 11:43am:

One analysts has suggested that the Libs could massively increase their already large lead by promising a wide range of small business reforms of which this is just one example. even a labor-leaning small business owner being hampered by labors anti-business, pro-union, pro regulation regime could be moved the liberal side by a policy to make things easier for them. and that is without a relaxation of the IR laws that are draconian in many ways already.

Wow Longweekend - you might end up being my buddy for this election.  :o

Bobby. wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 12:49pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 1st, 2013 at 11:43am: One analysts has suggested that the Libs could massively increase their already large lead by promising a wide range of small business reforms of which this is just one example. even a labor-leaning small business owner being hampered by labors anti-business, pro-union, pro regulation regime could be moved the liberal side by a policy to make things easier for them. and that is without a relaxation of the IR laws that are draconian in many ways already. Wow Longweekend - you might end up being my buddy for this election.  :o

that is a disturbing notion!!!  ;D ;D ;D

It's not just start up companies that end up impacted by some of rescinding if grants implemented by the Federal Labor Party.

In their mad rush attempt to get their much desired surplus the Federal Labor Government detailed to us (and all of our competitors) that R&D grants on streamlining of energy delivery, of improvement in shale fracking processes, of offshore exploration within Australian waters, would all be either cut or completely removed.

This had the effect of millions of dollars falling on industry - while the Government continues to reap the rewards of this R&D work.
This has hit the smaller exploration companies in Australia who end up needing to team with the bigger multi nationals just to stay afloat.

In recent meetings the industry had with Julie Bishop and Josh Frydenberg, it seems there will be a likelihood these grants will come back and make Australia again a more attractive place to carry out R&D.

The current Government I have to say have been disappointingly short sighted - particularly with the energy industry - in it's need to deliver a short term surplus and without thinking of how cuts they make will impact the longer term future.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 3:37pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 1st, 2013 at 12:49pm: longweekend58 wrote on Jun 1st, 2013 at 11:43am: One analysts has suggested that the Libs could massively increase their already large lead by promising a wide range of small business reforms of which this is just one example. even a labor-leaning small business owner being hampered by labors anti-business, pro-union, pro regulation regime could be moved the liberal side by a policy to make things easier for them. and that is without a relaxation of the IR laws that are draconian in many ways already. Wow Longweekend - you might end up being my buddy for this election.  :o that is a disturbing notion!!!  ;D ;D ;D

Very disturbing - LOL.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 4:55pm:

It's not just start up companies that end up impacted by some of rescinding if grants implemented by the Federal Labor Party. In their mad rush attempt to get their much desired surplus the Federal Labor Government detailed to us (and all of our competitors) that R&D grants on streamlining of energy delivery, of improvement in shale fracking processes, of offshore exploration within Australian waters, would all be either cut or completely removed. This had the effect of millions of dollars falling on industry - while the Government continues to reap the rewards of this R&D work. This has hit the smaller exploration companies in Australia who end up needing to team with the bigger multi nationals just to stay afloat. In recent meetings the industry had with Julie Bishop and Josh Frydenberg, it seems there will be a likelihood these grants will come back and make Australia again a more attractive place to carry out R&D. The current Government I have to say have been disappointingly short sighted - particularly with the energy industry - in it's need to deliver a short term surplus and without thinking of how cuts they make will impact the longer term future.

Yes Andrei,
but why do governments demand provisional tax for crops that aren't even in the ground?

It's ridiculous - & no wonder farmers are selling up & moving to the city.

As if floods and droughts are not enough -
the Govt. does it's best to destroy their business too.

I don't understand it.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 11:43am:

One analysts has suggested that the Libs could massively increase their already large lead by promising a wide range of small business reforms of which this is just one example. even a labor-leaning small business owner being hampered by labors anti-business, pro-union, pro regulation regime could be moved the liberal side by a policy to make things easier for them. and that is without a relaxation of the IR laws that are draconian in many ways already.

well why didn't they reform this one then and give startups a fair go  ? and why don't they do something about the 13 billion dollar a year negative gearing tax rorts on property ? I mean can I startup a vegetable patch in my garden and register it as a business and then write off the losses against the income from my day job in case the crop fails etc ?

The liberals are just as bad as labor when it comes to small business :(

Bobby. wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2013 at 10:49am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 1st, 2013 at 4:55pm: It's not just start up companies that end up impacted by some of rescinding if grants implemented by the Federal Labor Party. In their mad rush attempt to get their much desired surplus the Federal Labor Government detailed to us (and all of our competitors) that R&D grants on streamlining of energy delivery, of improvement in shale fracking processes, of offshore exploration within Australian waters, would all be either cut or completely removed. This had the effect of millions of dollars falling on industry - while the Government continues to reap the rewards of this R&D work. This has hit the smaller exploration companies in Australia who end up needing to team with the bigger multi nationals just to stay afloat. In recent meetings the industry had with Julie Bishop and Josh Frydenberg, it seems there will be a likelihood these grants will come back and make Australia again a more attractive place to carry out R&D. The current Government I have to say have been disappointingly short sighted - particularly with the energy industry - in it's need to deliver a short term surplus and without thinking of how cuts they make will impact the longer term future. Yes Andrei, but why do governments demand provisional tax for crops that aren't even in the ground? It's ridiculous - & no wonder farmers are selling up & moving to the city. As if floods and droughts are not enough - the Govt. does it's best to destroy their business too. I don't understand it.

bump

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 4:55pm:

It's not just start up companies that end up impacted by some of rescinding if grants implemented by the Federal Labor Party. In their mad rush attempt to get their much desired surplus the Federal Labor Government detailed to us (and all of our competitors) that R&D grants on streamlining of energy delivery, of improvement in shale fracking processes, of offshore exploration within Australian waters, would all be either cut or completely removed. This had the effect of millions of dollars falling on industry - while the Government continues to reap the rewards of this R&D work. This has hit the smaller exploration companies in Australia who end up needing to team with the bigger multi nationals just to stay afloat. In recent meetings the industry had with Julie Bishop and Josh Frydenberg, it seems there will be a likelihood these grants will come back and make Australia again a more attractive place to carry out R&D. The current Government I have to say have been disappointingly short sighted - particularly with the energy industry - in it's need to deliver a short term surplus and without thinking of how cuts they make will impact the longer term future.

and rightfully so. why dole out billions for filthy polluting shale that has been stuck in the ground for the last billion years or so. you've got to be joken. What innovation is this ? Get money for building an electric car that doesn't need oil you nit wit just like Tesla motors.

longweekend58 wrote on Jun 1^st, 2013 at 11:43am:

One analysts has suggested that the Libs could massively increase their already large lead by promising a wide range of small business reforms of which this is just one example. even a labor-leaning small business owner being hampered by labors anti-business, pro-union, pro regulation regime could be moved the liberal side by a policy to make things easier for them. and that is without a relaxation of the IR laws that are draconian in many ways already.

yes and the key word here is "promising". that's all they are is promises whilst they will still give concessions to property hoarders and speculators as well as foreign car corporations. We will never see innovation in this country as long as the housing-hoarding mentality is live and well. That's what labor and liberal both stand for. Doling out huge money to unprofitable foreign car corporations and calling that their manufacturing policy :(

Yes Nail,

why do governments demand provisional tax for crops that aren't even in the ground?

I just found out that the Govt. doesn't call it provisional tax anymore -
it's called PAYG tax - still it's the same thing.

http://www.ato.gov.au/corporate/PrintFriendly.aspx?doc=/content/00224959.htm



Quote:

Stronger measures We take firmer action against taxpayers who are unwilling to work with us to address their tax debt or repeatedly default on agreed arrangements. Even when we have started to implement stronger measures, including legal action, we are willing to work with taxpayers to help them address their tax debt. We do not take firmer action if you are complying with an agreed payment arrangement, including lodging and paying current obligations on time. Stronger measures include: • garnishee notices •director penalty notices •legal action, specifically a ◦claim or summons ◦bankruptcy notice ◦creditor's petition ◦statutory demand ◦wind-up action.

Quote:

Director penalty notice Company directors have a legal responsibility to ensure that their company meets its pay as you go (PAYG) withholding and superannuation guarantee charge (SGC) obligations. The director of a company that fails to meet a PAYG withholding or SGC liability in full by the due date automatically becomes personally liable for a penalty equal to the unpaid amount.

The Tax department is ruthless.
They will even wind up your business & can even make a director personally liable
when he's running a LTD company - limited liability.
I think Stalin would have been proud of them.

if you are asking for assistance

i can provide your answer here

http://i-uv.com/

if you can disprove your freedom

i will leave this messageboard

it is for you alone to pursue your justice

with extreme prejudice

unrebutted and forgiven

namaste

- : )

further

the ATO is not a legal entity

The ATO is not a legal entity by it's own admission

The ATO is also a private, foreign owned business, hence it is called "Office", not "Department." If the ATO denies being foreign owned private business, make them sign a JP witnessed Statutory Declaration so they can perjure themselves.

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~hubbca/tax.htm


Is the ATO operating legally? - http://www.itwillpass.com/tax_ato_not_legal.shtml
ATO is an Illegal Entity - http://www.itwillpass.com/tax_ato_non_legal_entity.shtml

ATO (Australian Tax Office) Is illegal By Its Own Admission - Lifting The Veil of Deception - http://www.loveforlife.com.au/node/130

High Court Transcript - Moeliker v Chapman B8/2000 (17 May 2000)
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/hca/transcripts/2000/B8/1.html

http://www.loveforlife.com.au/files/ATO-illegal%20entity%20by%20it's%20own%20admission-actual%20docs%20to%20prove%20it-1.pdf

http://www.itwillpass.com/tax_ato_non_legal_entity.shtml
http://www.brumbywatchaustralia.com/Principality12.htm
http://www.brumbywatchaustralia.com/Principality40.htm

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~hubbca/tax.htm

The Principality of Range View
Is the illegal ATO above the purported law – obviously the purported Tax Commissioner thinks it is. … Another example of the tyranny in Australia.

Below: Mr S. Cantrill of the illegal ATO confirms that the ATO is not a legal entity. ………… Mr B. Bissett of the illegal ATO implies that he is not concerned that the ATO is not a legal entity ………… He totally avoided the issue that he may be liable to imprisonment for 7 years for obeying the order or ………… commands of a committee or body not legally constituted, per the Criminal Code Act 1899.
http://www.clrg.info/wp-content/uploads/ato_not_legal_01.gif

just like your birth certificate

which is separate to you the flesh and blood being

all is well,be at peace

namaste

- : )

Hi master Light,
notice the victim received no remedy.
He was still made bankrupt.

cheers
Bobby

It's ironical that gillard decides to create a whole lot of NDIS public servant jobs in geelong to replace the manufacturing jobs lost by Ford  which was just another billion dollar tax payer gamble that never paid off :(

Perhaps if labor stopped this charade of taxing the sh.t out of small startups and stealing from Universities whilst putting money into the pockets of property hoarders then geelong could have created lots of REAL jobs from nurturing small start-ups with innovative ideas just like how Tesla Motors started !!

But of course labor and liberal won't do this because they are inherently corrupt and believe in gambling australia's future by selling off the farm to foreign corporations and putting all of their money on the one mining horse which is now losing  :(

Nail,

Quote:

Perhaps if labor stopped this charade of taxing the sh.t out of small startups

Yes Nail,
the tax dept. - Labor - is just not interested in helping small business.
They want to tax them before they make any money.
PAYG tax takes money before it's made &
taxing  shares in a business that might be worthless by the time it's sold
is a shocking way to undermine business.
A new employee can't be offered a share bonus.
It looks like that stupid rule might be changed -
maybe before the election.

I am surprised that this thread has not gained more traction -
surely everyone would like to bitch about the tax dept.?


They don't seem to want to work with business but rather against business.

http://www.clrg.info/wp-content/uploads/ato_not_legal_01.gif

Master Light - I already replied to that.

The tax dept. has huge power:
they can freeze bank accounts - force bankruptcy etc.

Don't make light of them - excuse the pun.

I am bumping this thread up again because of it's extreme importance.

Unless Tony - when he gets in - encourages innovation we are all doomed to a low standard of living.

Does he have the balls to do it?

Bobby. wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 12:28pm:

I am bumping this thread up again because of it's extreme importance. Unless Tony - when he gets in - encourages innovation we are all doomed to a low standard of living. Does he have the balls to do it?

When you had a Government that cut innovation R&D Grants to the bone to companies spending millions on Australian projects - all in the name of a hollow surplus promise - you know they aren't serious about the future.

Not only that Andrei,
the financial controller at work told me that there were
about 40 different taxes & charges that applied to our company -
I don't know them all but some that come to mine:

payroll tax ,
land tax,
company tax,
GST,
forced payment of public liability insurance,
work cover insurance,
auditing charges  etc

add the rest on if you know them.

We had to employ a team of financial people to try & control these taxes & charges -
called a compliance cost - about $250,000 per year.


It all means that business is not encouraged in Australia.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 2:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 12:28pm: I am bumping this thread up again because of it's extreme importance. Unless Tony - when he gets in - encourages innovation we are all doomed to a low standard of living. Does he have the balls to do it? When you had a Government that cut innovation R&D Grants to the bone to companies spending millions on Australian projects - all in the name of a hollow surplus promise - you know they aren't serious about the future.

They gave plenty to Ford who couldn't make a profit if their life depended on it :(

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 4:26pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 2:21pm: Bobby. wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 12:28pm: I am bumping this thread up again because of it's extreme importance. Unless Tony - when he gets in - encourages innovation we are all doomed to a low standard of living. Does he have the balls to do it? When you had a Government that cut innovation R&D Grants to the bone to companies spending millions on Australian projects - all in the name of a hollow surplus promise - you know they aren't serious about the future. They gave plenty to Ford who couldn't make a profit if their life depended on it :(

Australia needs more energy - it has a growing population and energy need.
Yet they removed innovation grants on energy delivery.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 4:27pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 4:26pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 2:21pm: Bobby. wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 12:28pm: I am bumping this thread up again because of it's extreme importance. Unless Tony - when he gets in - encourages innovation we are all doomed to a low standard of living. Does he have the balls to do it? When you had a Government that cut innovation R&D Grants to the bone to companies spending millions on Australian projects - all in the name of a hollow surplus promise - you know they aren't serious about the future. They gave plenty to Ford who couldn't make a profit if their life depended on it :( Australia needs more energy - it has a growing population and energy need. Yet they removed innovation grants on energy delivery.

Not for clean green energy unlike the filthy sh.t you were trying to dig out of the ground :(

Whether you like to admit it or not - our company is a player in renewable energy sourcing, cleaner energy sourcing and geo-thermal delivery.

You can't box everybody into neat categories.

Hell, on our balance sheet, we have several patents relating to electric vehicle parts!

Dear Andrei,
when you open a business in Australia the Govt. sees you as a cash cow
whereby they can extract enormous taxes - & they don't care if you go bankrupt.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

Whether you like to admit it or not - our company is a player in renewable energy sourcing, cleaner energy sourcing and geo-thermal delivery. You can't box everybody into neat categories. Hell, on our balance sheet, we have several patents relating to electric vehicle parts!

so what are these parts and where are these EV parts used ??  patent numbers ?

and are the patents like the chevron/cobasys EV battery patent which they won't license out to any EV manufacturers which by the way is an abuse of the patent system ?

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 4:42pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 4:33pm: Whether you like to admit it or not - our company is a player in renewable energy sourcing, cleaner energy sourcing and geo-thermal delivery. You can't box everybody into neat categories. Hell, on our balance sheet, we have several patents relating to electric vehicle parts! so what are these parts and where are these EV parts used ??  patent numbers ? and are the patents like the chevron/cobasys EV battery patent which they won't license out to any EV manufacturers which by the way is an abuse of the patent system ?

You'll find its not.

Holding a patent and preventing licensing to non approved, aligned groups is an intrinsic part of patenting and protection of IP.

The fact is that if you work for a boss in Australia you only get about
half the money you should as the rest ends up with the tax department.
All the money that is milked out of the business is money you can't get in your salary.

The Govt. robs every worker & discourages business.
It's 4 times cheaper to make a car in South east Asia than it is to make at Ford.


Look how manufacturing has declined in Australia - along with most other western style countries:

http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/speeches/5150125.html


http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/speeches/5150125_files/gw-manufacturing-decline-not-just-a-dollar-story-feb-2013-web00.jpg


I think it's only 7% now in Australia.
Manufacturing has died under the excessive taxes in this country.
The Govts. - both Labor & Liberal - just sat back & watched it die while they
introduced more & more taxes to make it less competitive.

This tax on people who start up companies being taxed on unsold share options is outrageous
& does even more to destroy our industry.

We don't need governments - we need paid administrators.
Every Govt. has been incompetent & done their best to destroy our industries.
They should all be in jail for life with hard labor & no parole.

It's disgusting & I'm angry about it.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 5^th, 2013 at 5:05pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 4:42pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 5th, 2013 at 4:33pm: Whether you like to admit it or not - our company is a player in renewable energy sourcing, cleaner energy sourcing and geo-thermal delivery. You can't box everybody into neat categories. Hell, on our balance sheet, we have several patents relating to electric vehicle parts! so what are these parts and where are these EV parts used ??  patent numbers ? and are the patents like the chevron/cobasys EV battery patent which they won't license out to any EV manufacturers which by the way is an abuse of the patent system ? You'll find its not. Holding a patent and preventing licensing to non approved, aligned groups is an intrinsic part of patenting and protection of IP.

No it's not. The patent system was designed to encourage innovation and improvement upon existing inventions. It was not designed to stifle innovation which is exactly what Chevron oil has done along with many pharmaceutical companies by making minor changes in order to hold onto the patent to stop it from being made available to the public domain. That's why patents only last 25 years and not indefinitely. Denying a license to manufacture an invention has nothing to do with protecting intellectual property.

You are talking rubbish as usual.

Payroll tax in Victoria is 4.9%.

http://www.sro.vic.gov.au/sro/sronav.nsf/childdocs/-34FAD0EFBAFF8BE0CA2575A100442101-5DB4C6346AF77ABBCA2575D10080B1F7?open

If you earn 60,000 a year in Victoria your employer must pay $2,940 to the Government -
money your employer can't give to you.
It's a tax on jobs.
It takes bread from your table.

How can this encourage employment?
It's pure theft.
You already pay income tax & GST yet this is not able to be claimed back as a loss by the employee.

Just listening to parliament.

Labor is pushing through a new tax expected to raise  $1 billion on financial services.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 6^th, 2013 at 10:28am:

Just listening to parliament. Labor is pushing through a new tax expected to raise  $1 billion on financial services.

just stealing more of peoples hard earned life's savings :(

I'll tell you about stealing.

I am sat right now not 10 paces from a pair of politicians kicking back with wines in Qantas bus class lounge.

All at our Fking expense no doubt!

Parasite c**ts. Makes my blood boil knowing they get all this at our expense...

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 6^th, 2013 at 1:04pm:

I'll tell you about stealing. I am sat right now not 10 paces from a pair of politicians kicking back with wines in Qantas bus class lounge. All at our Fking expense no doubt! Parasite c**ts. Makes my blood boil knowing they get all this at our expense...

Hi Andrei,
they should be hanged.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 6^th, 2013 at 1:22pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 6th, 2013 at 1:04pm: I'll tell you about stealing. I am sat right now not 10 paces from a pair of politicians kicking back with wines in Qantas bus class lounge. All at our Fking expense no doubt! Parasite c**ts. Makes my blood boil knowing they get all this at our expense... Hi Andrei, they should be hanged.

Every time I see politicians in here Bobby it makes me think of Wayne Swan flying his whole team back from London in first class at our expense.

Then they turn around and say they can't afford to give pensioners more.

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 6^th, 2013 at 12:38pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2013 at 10:28am: Just listening to parliament. Labor is pushing through a new tax expected to raise  $1 billion on financial services. just stealing more of peoples hard earned life's savings :(

Yes Nail,
The Govt. is short of money due to excessive spending so they create new taxes.
This causes businesses to go bankrupt & reduces their tax intake so what do they do?

answer -

make up even more new taxes which drive more businesses under.

It's a runaway positive feedback loop.

It's out of control & threatens everyone's job.

JuLiar should just have the election now & do us all a favor.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 6^th, 2013 at 1:25pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 6th, 2013 at 1:22pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jun 6th, 2013 at 1:04pm: I'll tell you about stealing. I am sat right now not 10 paces from a pair of politicians kicking back with wines in Qantas bus class lounge. All at our Fking expense no doubt! Parasite c**ts. Makes my blood boil knowing they get all this at our expense... Hi Andrei, they should be hanged. Every time I see politicians in here Bobby it makes me think of Wayne Swan flying his whole team back from London in first class at our expense. Then they turn around and say they can't afford to give pensioners more.

Try to go to Centerlink & get any money.
They won't pay you unless you're flat broke.

Shame labor and shame liberal. Taxing the sh.t out of start-ups whilst giving generous tax concessions to property hoarders and speculators :(

backward and inward looking draconian policies towards progressive businesses :(

shame, shame, shame :(

Neither labor or liberal deserves a single vote based on this policy alone :(

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 10^th, 2013 at 11:31am:

Shame labor and shame liberal. Taxing the sh.t out of start-ups whilst giving generous tax concessions to property hoarders and speculators :( backward and inward looking draconian policies towards progressive businesses :( shame, shame, shame :( Neither labor or liberal deserves a single vote based on this policy alone :(

Yes Nail,
the question is -
why don't they encourage start up companies?
Why try & tax people before they have made any money?


Both Labor & Liberal do it -
the original article was shown again on ABC 24  last night.

Still no answers from the pollys.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 10^th, 2013 at 1:14pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 10th, 2013 at 11:31am: Shame labor and shame liberal. Taxing the sh.t out of start-ups whilst giving generous tax concessions to property hoarders and speculators :( backward and inward looking draconian policies towards progressive businesses :( shame, shame, shame :( Neither labor or liberal deserves a single vote based on this policy alone :( Yes Nail, the question is - why don't they encourage start up companies? Why try & tax people before they have made any money? Both Labor & Liberal do it - the original article was shown again on ABC 24  last night. Still no answers from the pollys.

bump -


Why try & tax people before they have made any money?

Bobby. wrote on Jun 10^th, 2013 at 1:14pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 10th, 2013 at 11:31am: Shame labor and shame liberal. Taxing the sh.t out of start-ups whilst giving generous tax concessions to property hoarders and speculators :( backward and inward looking draconian policies towards progressive businesses :( shame, shame, shame :( Neither labor or liberal deserves a single vote based on this policy alone :( Yes Nail, the question is - why don't they encourage start up companies? Why try & tax people before they have made any money? Both Labor & Liberal do it - the original article was shown again on ABC 24  last night. Still no answers from the pollys.

Bobby -- you won't get an answer from the pollies

until they've received their script from their Zionist masters

and until they've scraped and bowed and kissed their masters' feet


Then, 'our' pollies will struggle to read their Zionist masters' script to us

We're paying a hell of a price for these jokers

We'd be better off just sticking a tape-recorder in a room and playing it to the slaves, instead of funding these useless goons and the buildings they infest at our cost

So what is labor and liberal's stance on this business destroying tax law !!

Does anyone know what either side is going to do or do they think service industries alone are going to carry the economy forward like they are in Greece ?

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 10:36am:

So what is labor and liberal's stance on this business destroying tax law !! Does anyone know what either side is going to do or do they think service industries alone are going to carry the economy forward like they are in Greece ?

Hi Nail,

see link again:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-30/start-ups-say-tax-laws-are-crippling-their-viability/4724090


Quote:

Thu May 30, 2013 8:28pm AEST It's understood Communications Minister Stephen Conroy's update to the National Digital Economy Strategy will consider the issue. The strategy is expected to be released in a few weeks.

I have heard nothing yet.

Bobby. wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 10:55am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 9th, 2013 at 10:36am: So what is labor and liberal's stance on this business destroying tax law !! Does anyone know what either side is going to do or do they think service industries alone are going to carry the economy forward like they are in Greece ? Hi Nail, see link again: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-30/start-ups-say-tax-laws-are-crippling-their-viability/4724090 Quote: It's understood Communications Minister Stephen Conroy's update to the National Digital Economy Strategy will consider the issue. The strategy is expected to be released in a few weeks. I have heard nothing yet.

dudd reckons we should be a country that makes things so lets see him put his money where his mouth is and take the first step of getting rid of this draconian tax law.

Or does dudd think that bringing more business migration from china, running two dollar shops and cafes thus adding to the black economy is the ultimate solution to making things here ?

Hi Nail,
neither Dudd nor Abort have any policy on this.

That article was dated:
Thu May 30, 2013 8:28pm AEST

but we have heard nothing.

Yes - expect to see more $2 shops.

Bobby. wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 11:11am:

Hi Nail, neither Dudd nor Abort have any policy on this. That article was dated: Thu May 30, 2013 8:28pm AEST but we have heard nothing. Yes - expect to see more $2 shops.

yep more $2 shops, milk bars, cafes, fish and chip shops, mobile phone shops, even laundry mats !! All black economy cash businesses that hide cash under the table !!

Is this the future for us here in terms of "making things" ?

Yes Nail,
this country is finished unless they encourage start up companies.

does anyone know, are either of the parties actually going to look at this mess?

Bobby. wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 11:25am:

Yes Nail, this country is finished unless they encourage start up companies.

I think it maybe to far gone. All prospective investors have gone elsewhere. Australia is just a penal colony full of peasants and crooks with a house hoarding mentality :(

Yes Nail,

both Labor & Liberal are the enemies of small business.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 11:26am:

does anyone know, are either of the parties actually going to look at this mess?

I'd like to know how come labor in their infinite wisdom didn't address this issue ASAP when they got voted in 2007 in response to the GFC ?

Surely stimulating start-ups with fairer tax rules would have spawned new and innovative industries. Instead they propped up the building sector and put money into the pockets of tradees, builders and property developers whilst keeping the corrupt negative gearing tax rorts going !!! Labor was propping up the very thing that caused the GFC in the first place :(

Go figure !!

What a bunch of retards dudd and and his fantastic 4 were :(

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 3:07pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 9th, 2013 at 11:26am: does anyone know, are either of the parties actually going to look at this mess? I'd like to know how come labor in their infinite wisdom didn't address this issue ASAP when they got voted in 2007 in response to the GFC ? Surely stimulating start-ups with fairer tax rules would have spawned new and innovative industries. Instead they propped up the building sector and put money into the pockets of tradees, builders and property developers whilst keeping the corrupt negative gearing tax rorts going !!! Labor was propping up the very thing that caused the GFC in the first place :( Go figure !! What a bunch of retards dudd and and his fantastic 4 were :(

Hi Nail,
hopefully we'll see some better policies this time around.

Why waste time debating destruction of Aussie companies

We KNOW what happened

We KNOW what has robbed Aussies of work and Aussie manufacturers of viability

The Lima Declaration

1975 onwards


Initial gift of Aussie jobs and manufacturing to asia was 25%

That was the start

Now, it's closer to 85%


Anyone who even thinks of starting up business in Oz is shafted by the same bastards who're continuing to pursue the LIma Declaration agenda

Same on the Gold Coast.  Take a look at what's thrown at anyone who attempts to start up there

No need for debate


Long past time for action


And the way to get that moving is to dump both the fake 'big' parties at the next election

and keep doing it

Otherwise, you're dead and so are your kids, grandkids

(unless you inherit a chalet in Switzerland or France.  One that's in good condition)

Quote:

Same on the Gold Coast.  Take a look at what's thrown at anyone who attempts to start up there.

An example?

Bobby. wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 9:52am:

Quote: Same on the Gold Coast.  Take a look at what's thrown at anyone who attempts to start up there. An example?

Just take my word for it


OR --- do some research on your own time

Why waste time debating destruction of Aussie companies

We KNOW what happened

We KNOW what has robbed Aussies of work and Aussie manufacturers of viability

[b]The Lima Declaration

1975 onwards[/b]

Initial gift of Aussie jobs and manufacturing to asia was 25%

That was the start

Now, it's closer to 85%

Anyone who even thinks of starting up business in Oz is shafted by the same bastards who're continuing to pursue the LIma Declaration agenda


Same on the Gold Coast.  Take a look at what's thrown at anyone who attempts to start up there

No need for debate


Long past time for action


And the way to get that moving is to dump both the fake 'big' parties at the next election

and keep doing it

Otherwise, you're dead and so are your kids, grandkids(unless you inherit a chalet in Switzerland or France.  One that's in good condition)

PZ547 wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 9:53am:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 10th, 2013 at 9:52am: Quote: Same on the Gold Coast.  Take a look at what's thrown at anyone who attempts to start up there. An example? Just take my word for it OR --- do some research on your own time

Why should I take your word for it?

You're just lazy.

My threads are of a higher standard - I always back up the post which starts the thread with a link.