If you believe the politicians then free trade only benefits us and nobody else !!

So how come all of the fruit growers are having to kill off their crops and set fire to them just because it is no longer viable to can fruit in this country when the imported stuff is clealrly of inferior quality ?

Are we destroying our traditional manufacturing and production industries in exchange for propping up our resources sectors ? It seems that way and it proves that free trade is anything but free :( Something has to be sacrificed in the free trade deals and it looks like the traditional manufacturing and agricultural production is being sacrificed in exchange for selling a whole pile of unprocessed minerals to other countries.

Are the politicians selling us out whilst making sure their foreign mates Toyota, Holden and Ford survive the free trade Holocaust ?

Free trade it's free for us and free for them :D

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 21^st, 2013 at 11:27pm:

If you believe the politicians then free trade only benefits us and nobody else !! So how come all of the fruit growers are having to kill off their crops and set fire to them just because it is no longer viable to can fruit in this country when the imported stuff is clealrly of inferior quality ? Are we destroying our traditional manufacturing and production industries in exchange for propping up our resources sectors ? It seems that way and it proves that free trade is anything but free :( Something has to be sacrificed in the free trade deals and it looks like the traditional manufacturing and agricultural production is being sacrificed in exchange for selling a whole pile of unprocessed minerals to other countries. Are the politicians selling us out whilst making sure their foreign mates Toyota, Holden and Ford survive the free trade Holocaust ? Free trade it's free for us and free for them :D

Interesting comment. Especially since Toyota Australia has been screaming out for high Tariffs for over 15 years saying that it can't compete with its own parent company. 

Quantum wrote on Jun 21^st, 2013 at 11:34pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 21st, 2013 at 11:27pm: If you believe the politicians then free trade only benefits us and nobody else !! So how come all of the fruit growers are having to kill off their crops and set fire to them just because it is no longer viable to can fruit in this country when the imported stuff is clealrly of inferior quality ? Are we destroying our traditional manufacturing and production industries in exchange for propping up our resources sectors ? It seems that way and it proves that free trade is anything but free :( Something has to be sacrificed in the free trade deals and it looks like the traditional manufacturing and agricultural production is being sacrificed in exchange for selling a whole pile of unprocessed minerals to other countries. Are the politicians selling us out whilst making sure their foreign mates Toyota, Holden and Ford survive the free trade Holocaust ? Free trade it's free for us and free for them :D Interesting comment. Especially since Toyota Australia has been screaming out for high Tariffs for over 15 years saying that it can't compete with its own parent company.

instead they get handouts so its the same thing in the end :(

Whatever we do in Australia, farming, mining , manufacturing we have legislation and governments for the most part that enforce the legislation.
Our competitors have no such impediments in most parts.

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 21^st, 2013 at 11:27pm:

So how come all of the fruit growers are having to kill off their crops and set fire to them just because it is no longer viable to can fruit in this country when the imported stuff is clealrly of inferior quality ?

Well the main problem is people like you pansi and crook demanding cheap product and are willing to accept cheap at any cost. Quality Australian product cost more, for a few reasons, one of which is we tend to pay our workers a decent wage.

Do crap on how you buy cheap overseas products and then act all surprised and indignant when Australian businesses close down, be they farmers or retailers or manufacturers.  >:(

Free Trade is the foundation of economic stability. Unions demanding exorbitant pay rates make the Australian product uncompetitive. Imported products, especially when the Australian dollar is high obviously presents the buyer with a more attractive proposition and in most cases better quality than products manufactured in Australia. UK went through this many years ago when Britain was renowned for manufacturing quality products, unfortunately again the unions buggered up manufacturing over there as they are doing here.

Who was it year ago, that talked about all this free trade?.  The unions, and what did they say?.  Can anyone remember?.  Fair trade, not free trade.     ;)

Free trade is good. It does not make sense to destroy our own economy and harm the global economy to save uncompetitive businesses. That would be incredibly shortsighted.

We have a lot of very expensive things that improve our standard of living that we could not hope to produce locally to anywhere near the global standard. We can only afford all these things because of free trade.

Yes - I've been saying the same thing in my asshole (perjorative American term courtesy of donincomprehenso) redneck word salad way, for many years now.

Without MONEY coming in, your average Aussie consumer cannot even buy goods - thus all suffer and all businesses walk slowly towards the same wall for a low speed crash.  Thus the transporting of jobs, productivity, and incomes for the term of our natural lives MUST inevitably result in a situation where we cannot even begin to buy our own necessities.  No income - no outgo - no outgo - no purchasing power - no purchasing - NO ECONOMY (comment sponsored by ANZ Call Centres Offshore Inc).

Business and government need to get this idea through their very thick skulls, and stop chasing the short-term greed of the very, very few at the expense of the majority - an issue, by the way,that I put squarely as one major reason for the looming Civil War or War of Independence. 

Those 'few' are the middle men who profit massively from import/export of 'cheap' and rising in cost goods - UNTIL that market - as we now see - collapses, while the rest go without more and more (look around you).  Never in the field of human economics has so little been owed by so many to so few!

Now, of course, with the looming tragedy of our 'Asian Century', with our dollar in freefall and thus prices going up, and thus production going down (at a time when my lady in China is just receiving a 30% pay rise to keep up as a teacher with Cost of Living) in Asia, thus destroying their economies as well as ours - you see the (ta-raaaa) OUTCOMES of 'equalising the world'.

DFE - 99.99% dead farken  poor and the rest living in Fatland... Hunger Games here we come!  Damned equal on the farken breadline!  :'(      :'(      :'(

Socrates wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 7:21am:

Free Trade is the foundation of economic stability. Unions demanding exorbitant pay rates make the Australian product uncompetitive. Imported products, especially when the Australian dollar is high obviously presents the buyer with a more attractive proposition and in most cases better quality than products manufactured in Australia. UK went through this many years ago when Britain was renowned for manufacturing quality products, unfortunately again the unions buggered up manufacturing over there as they are doing here.

Free trade - check the comparative individual prosperity ratings for China and Australia here - then ask my why my lady friend wants to emigrate here:-

https://sites.google.com/site/grappleruniversitypublications/home/department-of-irreverent-revolutionary-thought-dirt/gnp-population-comparison

Then consider this:-

a.  We either 'equalise' in the 'Asian Century' with the ROA (Rest of Asia) or we somehow artificially keep up a 'standard of living' and personal prosperity rating that we are used to.

b.  How do we 'equalise'?  By becoming another country of serfs and poverty-riddled peasants, either unemployed of piece working for a pittance while the Mandarins accumulate their billions (outgoing Chinese President net family worth $4.2 billionAU).  Check the average prosperity rating for the individual Chinese (4 - Australian 1358) - HELLO!), and know ye that Cost of Living in Beijing is 49% that of Sydney.

Unions!  Hmm - well let me say this - which came first?  Unions and pay rises - or Cost of Living rises?  I don't recall the Unions having much to do with say, the near 100% rise in the cost of power, do you?

Just an example there. 

I take it then that in order to help Mother Australia you are prepared to accept a 50% pay loss to stabilise the escalating cost of living?  Wages/incomes go down, cost of living goes down, that your theory?  Just a thought.  Good start, don't you think?  Without the Unions we would still be at the mercy of Boss Mill Owner - pay... PAY mill owner to go to work!

You might want to present your argument to the Ambos and the nurses some time.......

As someone said - FAIR trade - fair wage for fair work for a fair standard of living.  Not so hard, eh?

I guess it is.  ::)

The cultural advantage we have over China will stay with us for a long time. China is benefiting from the low birth rate, education and adoption of technology and engineering, but still suffers due to political issues and an education system that focuses on rote learning and stifles creativity. It will take at least a few generations for the Chinese to shake off those burdens.

Eventually they probably will equalise, but this will not happen by lowering our standard of living. It will happen by raising China's (and eventually other Asian countries that are further behind).

The rise of China and India will significantly increase the global economy and the rate of technological change. There will be a huge long term market for our resources. Our future is not that of peasant food growers, but of wealthy miners and intellectual/technological leaders.

In the short term for Australian farmers, unless your product has low labour input  (grain ) you are not going to survive where there is competition.
If your product can be imported from overseas, change products.
There is probably a niche for small fresh product close to population centres.
If you are growing anything for a processor you are on real shaky ground.

Real food labeling would help local farmers however I have no faith in that becoming a reality.

Something costs $10 to make in OZ and sells for $15
but then 'crap' comes in
at a cost of $1 to make and sells for $14 to both undercut the OZ product as a cheaper alternative and then rip the consumer off when it breaks in half when they take it home under the belief that is was 'slightly' less in quality from the OZ product.
If the Import was 'Capped' to sell at only $5 - then Consumers (& Industries) would be more certain in 'they get what they pay for'.

- that's the problem we face here. Oranges are a good example.

If not - then Australian Companies just have to start manufacturing NICHE markets.
But its hard when China buys all the Patents across the board, does nothing with them and stifles the Market of Manufacturing until the term is over and the sell ...rebuy again if possible after another small vacant term for the Patent, etc.

FEDERAL level Politics and Polititians are WEAK AS in regards to the International Scene (unlike the UK/USA Feds).
Even the (current) PM serves the USA blantantly and directly, as does the Gov-Gen serves the UK: Both do not make our 'domestic' needs a priority and in fact sabotage our domestic efforts to benefit Internationals!
I don't like the ALP, but I loved it when all the (ALP) States pooled together to tell the (Lib) Federals where to go in regards to more urgent Water Issues, rather than the War in Afghanistan.

POWER TO PROVINCIALS (Republic  ;)) is the only way to get things done FOR AUSTRALIA directly!

Maybe it's not so much free trade, as we practice it, but free trade as a lot of our competitors do, which is not at all.
Example: US farm bills, Malaysian & Thai lip service.

I agree with you about food subsidies, and they highlight the risk of trade barriers. Once one country does it, people in other countries start demanding that their governments do it too. The people who really loose out from food subsidies are third world countries that are net food exporters. These are the countries that should be gradually and sustainably working their way out of poverty, but food subsidies keep them there.

The answer of course is more free trade, not less. Instead of campaigning for protection of our farmers, we should be campaigning for the end to US and EU farm subsidies.

BigOl64 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 7:02am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 21st, 2013 at 11:27pm: So how come all of the fruit growers are having to kill off their crops and set fire to them just because it is no longer viable to can fruit in this country when the imported stuff is clealrly of inferior quality ? Well the main problem is people like you pansi and crook demanding cheap product and are willing to accept cheap at any cost. Quality Australian product cost more, for a few reasons, one of which is we tend to pay our workers a decent wage. Do crap on how you buy cheap overseas products and then act all surprised and indignant when Australian businesses close down, be they farmers or retailers or manufacturers.  >:(

but don't aldis use a lot of local produce ? And not only that don't aldis pay their suppliers ON TIME unlike your mates at coles and woolies who screw everyone.

so unlike you f.ckface, I do support local industry just not when it comes to whingers like old gerry buying his stuff from the same chinese factory as the online supplier I buy from :(

freediver wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 9:47am:

Free trade is good. It does not make sense to destroy our own economy and harm the global economy to save uncompetitive businesses. That would be incredibly shortsighted. We have a lot of very expensive things that improve our standard of living that we could not hope to produce locally to anywhere near the global standard. We can only afford all these things because of free trade.

FD,
does that include cutting down our pear trees because imported pears are a few cents cheaper?

I saw it on Today tonight on Thursday night -
thousands of beautiful pear trees being bulldozed & burnt due to free trade -
farmers going off the land - bankrupt - 1000s of jobs lost.

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 1:05pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 7:02am: Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 21st, 2013 at 11:27pm: So how come all of the fruit growers are having to kill off their crops and set fire to them just because it is no longer viable to can fruit in this country when the imported stuff is clealrly of inferior quality ? Well the main problem is people like you pansi and crook demanding cheap product and are willing to accept cheap at any cost. Quality Australian product cost more, for a few reasons, one of which is we tend to pay our workers a decent wage. Do crap on how you buy cheap overseas products and then act all surprised and indignant when Australian businesses close down, be they farmers or retailers or manufacturers.  >:( but don't aldis use a lot of local produce ? And not only that don't aldis pay their suppliers ON TIME unlike your mates at coles and woolies who screw everyone. so unlike you f.ckface, I do support local industry just not when it comes to whingers like old gerry buying his stuff from the same chinese factory as the online supplier I buy from :(

Actually you have stated on more than one occasion you only buy cheap and as we all know cheap comes from OS where they pay children a few cents a day to make crap for the likes of you.

I buy Australian when it is available and I don't whinge about price, because I know it employs people and helps Aussie businesses. You and you cheap mates are the ones at fault here. Screwing Aussie businesses  to save yourself a few dollars.


Lie all you like, your long history of posts are the ones that show your true feelings toward Aussie businesses and their employees.


Keep buying cheap junk for overseas suppliers, but don't be a scumbag hypocrite and show bullsh1t feelings for the Aussie businesses and workers you bugger over.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 1:11pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 9:47am: Free trade is good. It does not make sense to destroy our own economy and harm the global economy to save uncompetitive businesses. That would be incredibly shortsighted. We have a lot of very expensive things that improve our standard of living that we could not hope to produce locally to anywhere near the global standard. We can only afford all these things because of free trade. FD, does that include cutting down our pear trees because imported pears are a few cents cheaper? I saw it on Today tonight on Thursday night - thousands of beautiful pear trees being bulldozed & burnt due to free trade - farmers going off the land - bankrupt - 1000s of jobs lost.

yes bobby this is NOT what free trade should be all about :(

http://au.news.yahoo.com/today-tonight/consumer/article/-/17695681/crops-up-in-flames/


Quote:

Crops up in flames Farmers are forced to set fire to more than 750,000 peach trees because they can no longer compete with cheap foreign imports. Australian farmers are under threat as fruit and vegetable canneries are forced to close down or move off-shore unable to compete with foreign imports. Tony Latina, who farms peaches in the Goulburn Valley, was hoping to pass his farm to his son but he fears his hope is going up in flames like his peach trees. Mr Latina says 70 per cent of his orchard will be torched in the coming weeks, a scene that will be repeated across the Goulburn Valley. "I've been growing fruit for 40 years and never did I think it would come to this day," Mr Latina said. "It's hard to accept and it's devastating." He says the local cannery was originally taking 32,000-tonnes of fruit from his farm in 2011 but now they only need 13,000 peaches. "It takes eight years to get the peach trees to their peak but it takes only three or four days to burn them," Mr Latina said. Fruit and vegetable canneries across the country are either disappearing or axing their suppliers, affecting job employment and growers. Australian food manufacturer Simplot's processing plant in Devonport has been given two months to prove it can be viable. If the plant closes down, 300 jobs will be lost and 130 growers will have no where to send their peas, beans and carrots. Mike Badcock, vegetable farmer in Tasmania, says farmers don't know where to turn to next. "We're continually being squeezed for the price of our products," Mr Badcock said. It's costing farmers hundreds of thousands of dollars to pull out trees but they say leaving them in the ground is not an option. Fruit flies are an increasingly problem when trees are left in the ground, which can lead to diseases. Chief executive of Ausbuy Lynne Wilkinson is urging us to buy Australian produce in order to save our farmers. "Unfortunately we are doing this to our own people," Ms Wilkinson said.

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 1:20pm:

Crops up in flames Farmers are forced to set fire to more than 750,000 peach trees because they can no longer compete with cheap foreign imports. Australian farmers are under threat as fruit and vegetable canneries are forced to close down or move off-shore unable to compete with foreign imports. Tony Latina, who farms peaches in the Goulburn Valley, was hoping to pass his farm to his son but he fears his hope is going up in flames like his peach trees. Mr Latina says 70 per cent of his orchard will be torched in the coming weeks, a scene that will be repeated across the Goulburn Valley. "I've been growing fruit for 40 years and never did I think it would come to this day," Mr Latina said. "It's hard to accept and it's devastating." He says the local cannery was originally taking 32,000-tonnes of fruit from his farm in 2011 but now they only need 13,000 peaches. "It takes eight years to get the peach trees to their peak but it takes only three or four days to burn them," Mr Latina said. Fruit and vegetable canneries across the country are either disappearing or axing their suppliers, affecting job employment and growers. Australian food manufacturer Simplot's processing plant in Devonport has been given two months to prove it can be viable. If the plant closes down, 300 jobs will be lost and 130 growers will have no where to send their peas, beans and carrots. Mike Badcock, vegetable farmer in Tasmania, says farmers don't know where to turn to next. "We're continually being squeezed for the price of our products," Mr Badcock said. It's costing farmers hundreds of thousands of dollars to pull out trees but they say leaving them in the ground is not an option. Fruit flies are an increasingly problem when trees are left in the ground, which can lead to diseases. Chief executive of Ausbuy Lynne Wilkinson is urging us to buy Australian produce in order to save our farmers. "Unfortunately we are doing this to our own people," Ms Wilkinson said.

[/quote]



Jeez buying cheap overseas product not working out as well as you thought, well so long as you looked after yourself, that's all that matters now doesn't it?

BigOl64 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 1:20pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 1:05pm: BigOl64 wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 7:02am: Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 21st, 2013 at 11:27pm: So how come all of the fruit growers are having to kill off their crops and set fire to them just because it is no longer viable to can fruit in this country when the imported stuff is clealrly of inferior quality ? Well the main problem is people like you pansi and crook demanding cheap product and are willing to accept cheap at any cost. Quality Australian product cost more, for a few reasons, one of which is we tend to pay our workers a decent wage. Do crap on how you buy cheap overseas products and then act all surprised and indignant when Australian businesses close down, be they farmers or retailers or manufacturers.  >:( but don't aldis use a lot of local produce ? And not only that don't aldis pay their suppliers ON TIME unlike your mates at coles and woolies who screw everyone. so unlike you f.ckface, I do support local industry just not when it comes to whingers like old gerry buying his stuff from the same chinese factory as the online supplier I buy from :( Actually you have stated on more than one occasion you only buy cheap and as we all know cheap comes from OS where they pay children a few cents a day to make crap for the likes of you. I buy Australian when it is available and I don't whinge about price, because I know it employs people and helps Aussie businesses. You and you cheap mates are the ones at fault here. Screwing Aussie businesses  to save yourself a few dollars. Lie all you like, your long history of posts are the ones that show your true feelings toward Aussie businesses and their employees. Keep buying cheap junk for overseas suppliers, but don't be a scumbag hypocrite and show bullsh1t feelings for the Aussie businesses and workers you bugger over.

so you think that buying chinese made crap from harvey norman is buying australian ?

what a tool :(

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 1:23pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 1:20pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 1:05pm: BigOl64 wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 7:02am: Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 21st, 2013 at 11:27pm: So how come all of the fruit growers are having to kill off their crops and set fire to them just because it is no longer viable to can fruit in this country when the imported stuff is clealrly of inferior quality ? Well the main problem is people like you pansi and crook demanding cheap product and are willing to accept cheap at any cost. Quality Australian product cost more, for a few reasons, one of which is we tend to pay our workers a decent wage. Do crap on how you buy cheap overseas products and then act all surprised and indignant when Australian businesses close down, be they farmers or retailers or manufacturers.  >:( but don't aldis use a lot of local produce ? And not only that don't aldis pay their suppliers ON TIME unlike your mates at coles and woolies who screw everyone. so unlike you f.ckface, I do support local industry just not when it comes to whingers like old gerry buying his stuff from the same chinese factory as the online supplier I buy from :( Actually you have stated on more than one occasion you only buy cheap and as we all know cheap comes from OS where they pay children a few cents a day to make crap for the likes of you. I buy Australian when it is available and I don't whinge about price, because I know it employs people and helps Aussie businesses. You and you cheap mates are the ones at fault here. Screwing Aussie businesses  to save yourself a few dollars. Lie all you like, your long history of posts are the ones that show your true feelings toward Aussie businesses and their employees. Keep buying cheap junk for overseas suppliers, but don't be a scumbag hypocrite and show bullsh1t feelings for the Aussie businesses and workers you bugger over. so you think that buying chinese made crap from harvey norman is buying australian ? what a tool :(

Where did I say that? Typical lying scum.

No need to be a total flog, we are all aware that you would kick a cripple if there was some money to be saved.


Even when Australian product aren't available,I, unlike you retard DO NOT buy cheap chinese sh1t because I think it's a bargain. Only morons buy cheap sh1t and are constantly baffled when they are continually replacing it.


Friggen lying hypocrite.

Thanks Nail,
yes - that's the Today Tonight video:

http://au.news.yahoo.com/today-tonight/consumer/article/-/17695681/crops-up-in-flames/

I hope Freediver watches it.

Forget about BigOl - he's just a troll.

BigOl64 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 1:32pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 1:23pm: BigOl64 wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 1:20pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 1:05pm: BigOl64 wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 7:02am: Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 21st, 2013 at 11:27pm: So how come all of the fruit growers are having to kill off their crops and set fire to them just because it is no longer viable to can fruit in this country when the imported stuff is clealrly of inferior quality ? Well the main problem is people like you pansi and crook demanding cheap product and are willing to accept cheap at any cost. Quality Australian product cost more, for a few reasons, one of which is we tend to pay our workers a decent wage. Do crap on how you buy cheap overseas products and then act all surprised and indignant when Australian businesses close down, be they farmers or retailers or manufacturers.  >:( but don't aldis use a lot of local produce ? And not only that don't aldis pay their suppliers ON TIME unlike your mates at coles and woolies who screw everyone. so unlike you f.ckface, I do support local industry just not when it comes to whingers like old gerry buying his stuff from the same chinese factory as the online supplier I buy from :( Actually you have stated on more than one occasion you only buy cheap and as we all know cheap comes from OS where they pay children a few cents a day to make crap for the likes of you. I buy Australian when it is available and I don't whinge about price, because I know it employs people and helps Aussie businesses. You and you cheap mates are the ones at fault here. Screwing Aussie businesses  to save yourself a few dollars. Lie all you like, your long history of posts are the ones that show your true feelings toward Aussie businesses and their employees. Keep buying cheap junk for overseas suppliers, but don't be a scumbag hypocrite and show bullsh1t feelings for the Aussie businesses and workers you bugger over. so you think that buying chinese made crap from harvey norman is buying australian ? what a tool :( Where did I say that? Typical lying scum. No need to be a total flog, we are all aware that you would kick a cripple if there was some money to be saved. Even when Australian product aren't available,I, unlike you retard DO NOT buy cheap chinese sh1t because I think it's a bargain. Only morons buy cheap sh1t and are constantly baffled when they are continually replacing it. Friggen lying hypocrite.

yeh like Holden and Ford cars which by the way if you hadn't noticed are NOT Australian owned companies but still they get favourable treatment from the government whilst the Aussie farmer has to burn their own crops :(

Bobby. wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 1:33pm:

Thanks Nail, yes - that's the Today Tonight video: http://au.news.yahoo.com/today-tonight/consumer/article/-/17695681/crops-up-in-flames/ I hope Freediver watches it. Forget about BigOl - he's just a troll.

Bighole wants to argue just for the sake of arguing as usual. I told him that I source most of my stuff from aldis not because it is cheaper but because it is reasonable quality and a lot of it is sourced locally from suppliers who get paid on time !!

but bighole shops at coles and woolies which source their produce on the cheap from china where they use human manure as fertilizer. No wonder he talks a lot of sh.t :D

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 1:42pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 1:33pm: Thanks Nail, yes - that's the Today Tonight video: http://au.news.yahoo.com/today-tonight/consumer/article/-/17695681/crops-up-in-flames/ I hope Freediver watches it. Forget about BigOl - he's just a troll. Bighole wants to argue just for the sake of arguing as usual. I told him that I source most of my stuff from aldis not because it is cheaper but because it is reasonable quality and a lot of it is sourced locally from suppliers who get paid on time !! but bighole shops at coles and woolies which source their produce on the cheap from china where they use human manure as fertilizer. No wonder he talks a lot of sh.t :D

Very true Nail,
all the Govt. needs to do is to protect certain industries just like the Europeans & Yanks do.
They call it free trade but they do protect certain industries & especially farmers.
Farmers are going out of business for the sake of a few cents price difference in their products.

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 1:42pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 1:33pm: Thanks Nail, yes - that's the Today Tonight video: http://au.news.yahoo.com/today-tonight/consumer/article/-/17695681/crops-up-in-flames/ I hope Freediver watches it. Forget about BigOl - he's just a troll. Bighole wants to argue just for the sake of arguing as usual. I told him that I source most of my stuff from aldis not because it is cheaper but because it is reasonable quality and a lot of it is sourced locally from suppliers who get paid on time !! but bighole shops at coles and woolies which source their produce on the cheap from china where they use human manure as fertilizer. No wonder he talks a lot of sh.t :D

So you know this as an absolute fact do you?

bugger, you have no idea that everything you say is just another fvcken lie.

Nearly all of these products you buy for that german company I buy direct form the farmers at our local market. But bugger if being a filthy liar helps you, so be it.


Mind you, you might buy all your produces for that german company, but you have crapped on endlessly about buying everything you can from overseas sources instead of Australian businesses. You have posted on hundreds of occasions about how you refuse to buy local, so bugger you!

BigOl64 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 2:23pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 1:42pm: Bobby. wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 1:33pm: Thanks Nail, yes - that's the Today Tonight video: http://au.news.yahoo.com/today-tonight/consumer/article/-/17695681/crops-up-in-flames/ I hope Freediver watches it. Forget about BigOl - he's just a troll. Bighole wants to argue just for the sake of arguing as usual. I told him that I source most of my stuff from aldis not because it is cheaper but because it is reasonable quality and a lot of it is sourced locally from suppliers who get paid on time !! but bighole shops at coles and woolies which source their produce on the cheap from china where they use human manure as fertilizer. No wonder he talks a lot of sh.t :D So you know this as an absolute fact do you? bugger, you have no idea that everything you say is just another fvcken lie. Nearly all of these products you buy for that german company I buy direct form the farmers at our local market. But bugger if being a filthy liar helps you, so be it. Mind you, you might buy all your produces for that german company, but you have crapped on endlessly about buying everything you can from overseas sources instead of Australian businesses. You have posted on hundreds of occasions about how you refuse to buy local, so bugger you!

yeh just like you said i was lying about the latex foam pillow that you could buy for $25 at bigw :(

bugger off mate. no wonder you were voted 2nd worst troller on this forum :(

freediver wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 11:15am:

The cultural advantage we have over China will stay with us for a long time. China is benefiting from the low birth rate, education and adoption of technology and engineering, but still suffers due to political issues and an education system that focuses on rote learning and stifles creativity. It will take at least a few generations for the Chinese to shake off those burdens. Eventually they probably will equalise, but this will not happen by lowering our standard of living. It will happen by raising China's (and eventually other Asian countries that are further behind). The rise of China and India will significantly increase the global economy and the rate of technological change. There will be a huge long term market for our resources. Our future is not that of peasant food growers, but of wealthy miners and intellectual/technological leaders.

And this is all going to happen when?  Before or after the petroleum dries up and we are forced back to coal burning (easy with 80% still in the ground).

Who on earth can think that we can have a viable economy by equalising our serfs with the serfs of China and India?  Where lies any possibility of trade when there are no imbalances in materials produced and in incomes to purchase finished goods?  And if WE are the purchasers of finished goods - how then do we compete other than as a Third World Banana Republic?....

I recall Ahr Julia saying that 'Asians will become middle class consumers of high quality finished goods' - and we are ALL supposed to be rich miners, offering dirt to the factories and foundries for final solution - and make a massive profit by buying back those finished goods ourselves?

Look at the way our dollar is dropping NOW - and how this is affecting this womderful economy or ours and raising the price of those same finished goods right now.

Footnote:=  "wealthy miners and intellectual/technological leaders."  What - six wealthy miners and 500 well-heeled professors?  We are currently over-run and run by 'social scientists' - how then export their wisdom to the PTW (Previously Third World - dogs in the moonlight, man).

I'll be back when I finish planting out the gardens....

:o      :D      ;D      ::)

ADDS:-  Looking above me at the bun fight - I see that the troll don incomprehensiblo has had an effect... :P :P

My fervent belief is that the One World Economy - designed and run to benefit the rich middle men while disenfranchsing economically those at either end - will end in a welter of blood and fire....(not the Salvos).

One in 16 working age Australians unemployed, times two part employed - minus those on pensions....

Massive and escalating social and economic divides.

Social disintegration due to a multiple set of reasons....

"The Boible says 'Beat yer armour into tractors!  I says beat your fruit grower tractors into armour!"... sorry Ned Kelly...

(Year 2189 ANZRS (Australian and New Zealand Restoration Struggle) Day:-

"..as the Parade turns into George Street, we see at the head the very much decorated Fruit Growers Armoured Corps, who fought from Mildura all the way to Canberra, never missing a single battle and holding Battle Honours for each stop along the way.. there they are on their Regimental flag... Batlow.. a terrible fight for the Apple Corps there and a steadfast defence for over nine months... next to that the Twin Pears of Stanthorpe and Orange, both terrible battles costing so many lives... Stanthorpe the Golden Cherry clasp..... Goulburn and Yarra Valleys and the bloody fight for Peargrowers Co-Op Hall, a moment in history that will live forever.... an truly illustrious unit passing by here now - with the President taking the salute humbly with bowed head for these brave men and women....these few survivors covering no more than twenty yards of this march.. but holding a high place in the esteem of the Australian people.....as the First To Fight, thus suffering enormous casualties until Australia joined in, and committed the Wheat Growers and the Rice Mill Hands, next in line....then from New Zealand, brothers and sisters in arms, the League of Sheep Shearers, now so few in number that they are grouped with the CheeseMakers and Cattle Hands, while the Forestry workers make up a small contingent right behind....They are followed by the much larger group - the Retrenched Factory Workers Division, famous for the Ford and Holden campaigns"....

Bobby. wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 2:02pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 1:42pm: Bobby. wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 1:33pm: Thanks Nail, yes - that's the Today Tonight video: http://au.news.yahoo.com/today-tonight/consumer/article/-/17695681/crops-up-in-flames/ I hope Freediver watches it. Forget about BigOl - he's just a troll. Bighole wants to argue just for the sake of arguing as usual. I told him that I source most of my stuff from aldis not because it is cheaper but because it is reasonable quality and a lot of it is sourced locally from suppliers who get paid on time !! but bighole shops at coles and woolies which source their produce on the cheap from china where they use human manure as fertilizer. No wonder he talks a lot of sh.t :D Very true Nail, all the Govt. needs to do is to protect certain industries just like the Europeans & Yanks do. They call it free trade but they do protect certain industries & especially farmers. Farmers are going out of business for the sake of a few cents price difference in their products.

In Malaysia they have their very own car industry called Proton !! At the same time they protect it with huge tariffs on ALL imported cars whether they are luxury or not. Guess what ? A lot of people still buy imported cars and luxury ones such as Mercs, Lexus and BMW's etc. But on the flip-side a lot of people buy the local Proton cars. Maybe not the most refined car but they work and a lot of taxi drivers use them.

Now the key difference between Malaysia and Australia is that Malaysia OWNS it own car brand whereas Australia does not and takes its orders from abroad and that is why Ford is going broke for not being allowed to make the right cars and export them to other countries whereas Proton doesn't have those restrictions :(

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 3:52pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 2:02pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 1:42pm: Bobby. wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 1:33pm: Thanks Nail, yes - that's the Today Tonight video: http://au.news.yahoo.com/today-tonight/consumer/article/-/17695681/crops-up-in-flames/ I hope Freediver watches it. Forget about BigOl - he's just a troll. Bighole wants to argue just for the sake of arguing as usual. I told him that I source most of my stuff from aldis not because it is cheaper but because it is reasonable quality and a lot of it is sourced locally from suppliers who get paid on time !! but bighole shops at coles and woolies which source their produce on the cheap from china where they use human manure as fertilizer. No wonder he talks a lot of sh.t :D Very true Nail, all the Govt. needs to do is to protect certain industries just like the Europeans & Yanks do. They call it free trade but they do protect certain industries & especially farmers. Farmers are going out of business for the sake of a few cents price difference in their products. In Malaysia they have their very own car industry called Proton !! At the same time they protect it with huge tariffs on ALL imported cars whether they are luxury or not. Guess what ? A lot of people still buy imported cars and luxury ones such as Mercs, Lexus and BMW's etc. But on the flip-side a lot of people buy the local Proton cars. Maybe not the most refined car but they work and a lot of taxi drivers use them. Now the key difference between Malaysia and Australia is that Malaysia OWNS it own car brand whereas Australia does not and takes its orders from abroad and that is why Ford is going broke for not being allowed to make the right cars and export them to other countries whereas Proton doesn't have those restrictions :(

Hi Nail,
but in Malaysia they have clever Govts.

We have a bunch of idiots here:

For instance - Bill Shorten is retarded - 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf4nlIEHfaU

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 2:37pm:

[ yeh just like you said i was lying about the latex foam pillow that you could buy for $25 at bigw :( bugger off mate. no wonder you were voted 2nd worst troller on this forum :(

Once again another lie.

I have no doubt you paid $25 dollars for some piece of sh1t chinese product, what I did say is that it was not the same quality as the more expensive item, because it was not the same product.

See when you tell so many lies you can't remember what the bugger you said.

Here's something, try telling the truth, for something different.


Pointing out someone is an idiot who is totally clueless doesn't make one a troll. Laughing the death or misfortune of others, try looking at pansi if you want trolling.

BigOl - you're so boring.

Increase the dose of your Prozac.

BigOl64 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 4:56pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 2:37pm: [ yeh just like you said i was lying about the latex foam pillow that you could buy for $25 at bigw :( bugger off mate. no wonder you were voted 2nd worst troller on this forum :( Once again another lie. I have no doubt you paid $25 dollars for some piece of sh1t chinese product, what I did say is that it was not the same quality as the more expensive item, because it was not the same product. See when you tell so many lies you can't remember what the bugger you said. Here's something, try telling the truth, for something different. Pointing out someone is an idiot who is totally clueless doesn't make one a troll. Laughing the death or misfortune of others, try looking at pansi if you want trolling.

you said I was lying about the low price and I proved you wrong because I had seen both of them and there was no difference between the two in terms of quality and you hadn't seen either of them. Now you are back peddling and making excuses like the fricken weasel that you are. I find it hard to believe that you were anything but the shoe shine boy in the armed forces just going around listening to everyone else's gossip.

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 21^st, 2013 at 11:27pm:

If you believe the politicians then free trade only benefits us and nobody else !! So how come all of the fruit growers are having to kill off their crops and set fire to them just because it is no longer viable to can fruit in this country when the imported stuff is clealrly of inferior quality ?

The Aussie farmer (the most destructive feral on the face of the planet) motto is: 'If there's not a quick buck in it burn it, bulldoze it or shoot it.' Spitefully destroying crops & livestock is an Aussie farming tradition.

We pay outrageous prices for fresh fruit & veg. in this country, and it's not just the supermarkets fault. High prices attract cheaper imports. Aussie is pricing himself out of existence. Dick Smith can go to hell with his nationalistic buy Aussie crap. Aussie prices are outrageous enough with 'free trade', what in hell would they like without it?



Quote:

Are we destroying our traditional manufacturing and production industries in exchange for propping up our resources sectors ? It seems that way and it proves that free trade is anything but free :( Something has to be sacrificed in the free trade deals and it looks like the traditional manufacturing and agricultural production is being sacrificed in exchange for selling a whole pile of unprocessed minerals to other countries. Are the politicians selling us out whilst making sure their foreign mates Toyota, Holden and Ford survive the free trade Holocaust ? Free trade it's free for us and free for them :D

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 3:52pm:

But on the flip-side a lot of people buy the local Proton cars. Maybe not the most refined car but they work and a lot of taxi drivers use them.

Are these cars safe? Cars in Australia have to pass certain safety standards. Do Proton cars pass those tests?

I just heard recently from someone here (I think it was longweekend) that Malaysia has lousy drivers. It would be no surprise then that they'd have substandard cars. Malaysia's level of civilisation is apparently lower than Australia's.

Mnemonic wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 9:43pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 3:52pm: But on the flip-side a lot of people buy the local Proton cars. Maybe not the most refined car but they work and a lot of taxi drivers use them. Are these cars safe? Cars in Australia have to pass certain safety standards. Do Proton cars pass those tests? I just heard recently from someone here (I think it was longweekend) that Malaysia has lousy drivers. It would be no surprise then that they'd have substandard cars. Malaysia's level of civilisation is apparently lower than Australia's.

Yes proton is sold in Australia so must pass ADR ;)

GA wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 7:27pm:

The Aussie farmer (the most destructive feral on the face of the planet) motto is: 'If there's not a quick buck in it burn it, bulldoze it or shoot it.' Spitefully destroying crops & livestock is an Aussie farming tradition.

It's not a surprise to me if they're renting the land. They can't afford to keep their "assets" in storage anymore and they can't put it anywhere else (it's illegal), so it's better to destroy it. Blame the laws we have. Without them, we wouldn't have civilisation. My cows would cross over the fence and run over your sheep due to poor infrastructure. Less developed countries simply don't care. If my cows run over your sheep it's your problem, not mine. That's why their products are cheaper. :D

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 9:48pm:

Yes proton is sold in Australia so must pass ADR ;)

It must be their lower labour costs then.

Quote:

does that include cutting down our pear trees because imported pears are a few cents cheaper?

There are lots of reasons for cutting down fruit trees. Lack of profit is just part of it.


Quote:

I saw it on Today tonight on Thursday night

I guess it must be true then.


Quote:

Actually you have stated on more than one occasion you only buy cheap and as we all know cheap comes from OS where they pay children a few cents a day to make crap for the likes of you. I buy Australian when it is available and I don't whinge about price, because I know it employs people and helps Aussie businesses. You and you cheap mates are the ones at fault here. Screwing Aussie businesses  to save yourself a few dollars. Lie all you like, your long history of posts are the ones that show your true feelings toward Aussie businesses and their employees. Keep buying cheap junk for overseas suppliers, but don't be a scumbag hypocrite and show bullsh1t feelings for the Aussie businesses and workers you bugger over.

I buy the cheapest item I can usually, and I am happy if that helps out dirt poor struggling foreign workers rather than whinging Aussies who think everyone owes them.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 1:33pm:

Thanks Nail, yes - that's the Today Tonight video: http://au.news.yahoo.com/today-tonight/consumer/article/-/17695681/crops-up-in-flames/ I hope Freediver watches it. Forget about BigOl - he's just a troll.

Freediver,
did you watch the video above?
It's heartbreaking to see all those trees bulldozed & burnt.

If they burnt them at the same time, it probably means they had been dead for a while. It's hard to compete against cheap imports with dead trees, isn't it? Maybe we should give the farmers some more sit down money on account of their plight?

freediver wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 11:51pm:

If they burnt them at the same time, it probably means they had been dead for a while. It's hard to compete against cheap imports with dead trees, isn't it? Maybe we should give the farmers some more sit down money on account of their plight?

So you're saying that that farmer is a liar?

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 6:46pm:

you said I was lying about the low price and I proved you wrong because I had seen both of them and there was no difference between the two in terms of quality and you hadn't seen either of them. Now you are back peddling and making excuses like the fricken weasel that you are. I find it hard to believe that you were anything but the shoe shine boy in the armed forces just going around listening to everyone else's gossip.

Once again you are lying, never said anything of the sort. I said the only a moron (you0 would believe the two different items, even with similar name are the same thing and therefore demand they be the same price.

You never proved they were the same item, you only prove they were similar as in they were both pillows. You even provided evidence that they were not the same thing, not that you understood that.

But the important thing is you made sure that you bought the cheap one, made in some nasty chinese sweatshop. Which is what this thread is about POS like you that deliberately buy cheap imports instead of considering the impact on Australian businesses and workers.


Just so you don't continue to act like a total tosser, there is no job in the ADF of shoe shine boy, even if there was you wouldn't be smart enough to do it.  :)

freediver wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 11:41pm:

I buy the cheapest item I can usually, and I am happy if that helps out dirt poor struggling foreign workers rather than whinging Aussies who think everyone owes them.

Well you, nails, pansi and crook must absolutely wet yourself with excitement every time a business goes under of lays off a few hundred workers.

Always surprises me that people demand cheap and easy never accept the same from themselves; they demand a decent wage and to be treated with respect in the workplace, but would never consider doing that for other people.


I buy Australian and I buy quality, a lot of the time they are the same, I do not try and screw someone over for my own short term financial gain; and there in lays the difference between myself and you lot.

Quote:

So you're saying that that farmer is a liar?

I'm saying that every time you watch ACA, your IQ drops by 1 point. It's true. I saw it on today tonight.


Quote:

Well you, nails, pansi and crook must absolutely wet yourself with excitement every time a business goes under of lays off a few hundred workers.

That's capitalism for you. It's not the end of the world. It is actually how our economy grows. If nothing ever changed we would all be weaving baskets.


Quote:

Always surprises me that people demand cheap and easy never accept the same from themselves; they demand a decent wage and to be treated with respect in the workplace, but would never consider doing that for other people.

Sure I do. The best way to increase the wages of the poorest people is to buy stuff off them, especially from the ones doing a viable business.


Quote:

I buy Australian and I buy quality, a lot of the time they are the same, I do not try and screw someone over for my own short term financial gain

But you are screwing someone over. The fact that you also loose out in doing so does not give you some kind of moral high ground. It just makes you foolish.

Bobby

Quote:

So you're saying that that farmer is a liar?

FD

Quote:

I'm saying that every time you watch ACA, your IQ drops by 1 point. It's true. I saw it on today tonight.

FD,
I am sure that 1000s of trees have been bulldozed & burnt.
You did make a good point about burning a green tree or stump -
maybe those trees had been bulldozed months before in the summer & were being burnt now?
You can't expect a short report to have every detail.

BigOl64 wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2013 at 5:24am:

freediver wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 11:41pm: I buy the cheapest item I can usually, and I am happy if that helps out dirt poor struggling foreign workers rather than whinging Aussies who think everyone owes them. Well you, nails, pansi and crook must absolutely wet yourself with excitement every time a business goes under of lays off a few hundred workers. Always surprises me that people demand cheap and easy never accept the same from themselves; they demand a decent wage and to be treated with respect in the workplace, but would never consider doing that for other people. I buy Australian and I buy quality, a lot of the time they are the same, I do not try and screw someone over for my own short term financial gain; and there in lays the difference between myself and you lot.

so you would buy the $170 harvey norman imported latex pillow when you can buy the same elsewhere for $25 !! And because you are such a simpleton you want to criticize others just because they are wise to the scam :o

the shoit is really going to hit the fan when the west finally wake up to the fact that you cant globalise trade without globalising the labour market.

if australia doesnt free up its labor market, if labor dont stop supporting crazy , racist trade unions who want to buy cheaply off the sweat and toil of the asian, and borrow off the aasian to fund social service programs like free health care, ndis etc. which are not available to the asian.

we are all in this together now.
bob hawke and paul keating (rightly in my opinion) opened up free trade.  this means free trade in LABOUR as well. dont like the fact your job can be outsourced to india or china.

tough titties.  you should work harder and smarter than our neighbours, study harder at school and be more frugal

i welcome the arrival of our asian overlords who will hopefully whip this god awful ,lazy, whinging, pampered , OH and S crazy, penalty rate obseesed, nation into shape.

i hope to employ asians and see them feeding left over scraps to the racist overpaid selfish lazy australian worker who should soon be scrounging at the tip.

as dr phil says, there are 2 sides to every pancake and you are about to reap what you sewed, lazy fat bloated consumer society :D :D :D :D.

freediver wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 1:02pm:

I agree with you about food subsidies, and they highlight the risk of trade barriers. Once one country does it, people in other countries start demanding that their governments do it too. The people who really loose out from food subsidies are third world countries that are net food exporters. These are the countries that should be gradually and sustainably working their way out of poverty, but food subsidies keep them there. The answer of course is more free trade, not less. Instead of campaigning for protection of our farmers, we should be campaigning for the end to US and EU farm subsidies.

The problem is other countries are doing it. You must be gullible to think that there is a level playing field :(

Free trade is to international economics what perfect competition is to national economics.
That is, it's an idealised situation which never has been nor probably never will be replicated in the real world.
Is the grocery trade in Australia producing a fair result for consumers or producers? No.
By being an icon of a free trading nation are we gaining a fair result for our consumers and producers? No.
Does that mean we shouldn't work towards a better trading world? No.
But we should be working the system more as others do rather than just working within the system.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2013 at 12:06pm:

Bobby Quote: So you're saying that that farmer is a liar? FD [quote]I'm saying that every time you watch ACA, your IQ drops by 1 point. It's true. I saw it on today tonight.

FD,
I am sure that 1000s of trees have been bulldozed & burnt.
You did make a good point about burning a green tree or stump -
maybe those trees had been bulldozed months before in the summer & were being burnt now?
You can't expect a short report to have every detail.
[/quote]

You can't expect ACA to do any real journalism either.


Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2013 at 1:40pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 1:02pm: I agree with you about food subsidies, and they highlight the risk of trade barriers. Once one country does it, people in other countries start demanding that their governments do it too. The people who really loose out from food subsidies are third world countries that are net food exporters. These are the countries that should be gradually and sustainably working their way out of poverty, but food subsidies keep them there. The answer of course is more free trade, not less. Instead of campaigning for protection of our farmers, we should be campaigning for the end to US and EU farm subsidies. The problem is other countries are doing it. You must be gullible to think that there is a level playing field :(

This is good for us too. Not necessarily for our farmers, but it basically means US and EU taxpayers are subsidising food for us. Same thing with the proton - dirt poor Malaysians are subsidising cars for us.

Freediver,

Quote:

You can't expect ACA to do any real journalism either.

Dear FD,
I am convinced that the story about those trees is true.
It happens all the time as farmers can't compete with imported products.

We are losing our food security as well.

I find your cynicism disturbing.


forgiven

namaste

freediver wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2013 at 3:00pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 23rd, 2013 at 12:06pm: Bobby Quote: So you're saying that that farmer is a liar? FD [quote]I'm saying that every time you watch ACA, your IQ drops by 1 point. It's true. I saw it on today tonight. FD, I am sure that 1000s of trees have been bulldozed & burnt. You did make a good point about burning a green tree or stump - maybe those trees had been bulldozed months before in the summer & were being burnt now? You can't expect a short report to have every detail.

You can't expect ACA to do any real journalism either.


Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2013 at 1:40pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 1:02pm: I agree with you about food subsidies, and they highlight the risk of trade barriers. Once one country does it, people in other countries start demanding that their governments do it too. The people who really loose out from food subsidies are third world countries that are net food exporters. These are the countries that should be gradually and sustainably working their way out of poverty, but food subsidies keep them there. The answer of course is more free trade, not less. Instead of campaigning for protection of our farmers, we should be campaigning for the end to US and EU farm subsidies. The problem is other countries are doing it. You must be gullible to think that there is a level playing field :(

This is good for us too. Not necessarily for our farmers, but it basically means US and EU taxpayers are subsidising food for us. Same thing with the proton - dirt poor Malaysians are subsidising cars for us.[/quote]

you are dreaming.

the truth of the matter is the pollies have an unwritten rule where they encourage the rest of the world to buy our resources and land at bargain basement prices provided we kill off our own industries and instead import those goods from those countries.

why do you think Bob Hawke has gone to china nearly 100 times so he can sell off bits of australian land to the chinese :(

In the end these farmers will have to sell off their land for next to nothing :(

Quote:

I am convinced that the story about those trees is true. It happens all the time as farmers can't compete with imported products.

I am happy to accept that trees were bulldozed. The explanation given is most likely crap. It fails the common sense test. Once you have the trees planted and producing fruit, you have already sunk a lot of the costs. It would not go from financially viable to plant the trees and raise them, to being financially unviable to harvest from existing trees. Chances are one of the farmers had some trees at the end of their useful life, and decided the images of them being bulldozed would be a good chance for yet another ACA whingefest. One thing is for sure - ACA is not going to ask the hard questions that might undermine a simple story with good footage.


Quote:

We are losing our food security as well.

We are a net food exporter, without even trying, and that is not going to change. What does that mean to you?


Quote:

I find your cynicism disturbing.

It is not as disturbing as your naivety. What are you doing even watching ACA? Are you a bored housewife or something?


Quote:

the truth of the matter is the pollies have an unwritten rule where they encourage the rest of the world to buy our resources and land at bargain basement prices provided we kill off our own industries and instead import those goods from those countries

Sounds like a conspiracy to me. Have you contacted ACA about it yet? Though they might be too scared to go after the big end of town.

freediver wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2013 at 3:46pm:

Quote: I am convinced that the story about those trees is true. It happens all the time as farmers can't compete with imported products. I am happy to accept that trees were bulldozed. The explanation given is most likely crap. It fails the common sense test. Once you have the trees planted and producing fruit, you have already sunk a lot of the costs. It would not go from financially viable to plant the trees and raise them, to being financially unviable to harvest from existing trees. Chances are one of the farmers had some trees at the end of their useful life, and decided the images of them being bulldozed would be a good chance for yet another ACA whingefest. One thing is for sure - ACA is not going to ask the hard questions that might undermine a simple story with good footage. [quote]We are losing our food security as well.

We are a net food exporter, without even trying, and that is not going to change. What does that mean to you?


Quote:

I find your cynicism disturbing.

It is not as disturbing as your naivety. What are you doing even watching ACA? Are you a bored housewife or something?


Quote:

the truth of the matter is the pollies have an unwritten rule where they encourage the rest of the world to buy our resources and land at bargain basement prices provided we kill off our own industries and instead import those goods from those countries

Sounds like a conspiracy to me. Have you contacted ACA about it yet? Though they might be too scared to go after the big end of town.[/quote]


Dear Freediver,
no matter what source I quote I am put down by the readers here.
I quote CNN, TIME magazine, Today Tonight, ABC Lateline etc -
it doesn't matter to people here.
Whatever I do is not good enough for them.

You have to quote something to back up a story.
Many people just give no links at all & get 100s of replies.

What news service or site would be acceptable to you?

freediver wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2013 at 3:46pm:

Quote: I am convinced that the story about those trees is true. It happens all the time as farmers can't compete with imported products. I am happy to accept that trees were bulldozed. The explanation given is most likely crap. It fails the common sense test. Once you have the trees planted and producing fruit, you have already sunk a lot of the costs. It would not go from financially viable to plant the trees and raise them, to being financially unviable to harvest from existing trees. Chances are one of the farmers had some trees at the end of their useful life, and decided the images of them being bulldozed would be a good chance for yet another ACA whingefest. One thing is for sure - ACA is not going to ask the hard questions that might undermine a simple story with good footage. [quote]We are losing our food security as well.

We are a net food exporter, without even trying, and that is not going to change. What does that mean to you?


Quote:

I find your cynicism disturbing.

It is not as disturbing as your naivety. What are you doing even watching ACA? Are you a bored housewife or something?


Quote:

the truth of the matter is the pollies have an unwritten rule where they encourage the rest of the world to buy our resources and land at bargain basement prices provided we kill off our own industries and instead import those goods from those countries

Sounds like a conspiracy to me. Have you contacted ACA about it yet? Though they might be too scared to go after the big end of town.[/quote]

No need  ! I live in a suburb full of chinese who can only afford to buy property here. All of the traditional aussies have moved out to the bogun suburbs with high unemployment rates. The pollies have already sold us out :(

Bob Hawke is the national real estate agent for Australia :(

Labor will be tossed out into the political rubbish bin at the next election and will become extinct like the democrats. One thing people don't like is to be treated like a second rate citizen after paying taxes for all of their working life. The other thing they don't like is having their intelligence insulted by lying politicians.

Quote:

no matter what source I quote I am put down by the readers here.

You can hardly expect us to take ACA seriously. By your own admission the piece had some logical flaws.


Quote:

What news service or site would be acceptable to you?

You should start with The Australian or the SMH.


Quote:

No need  ! I live in a suburb full of chinese who can only afford to buy property here.

It sounds like they are Australians to me.

freediver wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2013 at 7:17pm:

Quote: no matter what source I quote I am put down by the readers here. You can hardly expect us to take ACA seriously. By your own admission the piece had some logical flaws. [quote]What news service or site would be acceptable to you?

You should start with The Australian or the SMH.

[/quote]


What about the Melbourne AGE & Herald Sun?
The Australian & SMH are both right wing papers but
I have also quoted from them too.

They sound fairly mainstream. I can't really comment on what other people have rubbished you for, but if you want to be taken seriously I would not advertise the fact that you watch ACA.

bump

freediver wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 7:38pm:

bump

Is the forum software still buggy?

freediver wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 7:30pm:

They sound fairly mainstream. I can't really comment on what other people have rubbished you for, but if you want to be taken seriously I would not advertise the fact that you watch ACA.

But FD,
you are using a strawman fallacy - the ideas from ACA &
Today Tonight are also repeated in many other stories on TV -
you've obviously never watched landline &
the internet is full of stories about poor farmers:

e.g.

http://www.theland.com.au/news/agriculture/agribusiness/general-news/vic-fruit-industrys-execution/2657842.aspx



Quote:

Federal Independent MP Bob Katter announced he would support the immediate introduction of clear labeling to identify produce place of origin, as a step to protect Australian producers from cheap imports. Click this image to see more photos in our online gallery.  More than 100 growers had their contracts reduced or cut completely, which second-generation orchardist Mario Mete said was devastating for Goulburn Valley growers. "It is heartbreaking – some people have been taken out completely and left with no source of income," he said. Final SPC Ardmona figures are expected to be released next week. Mr Mete anticipated his orchard tonnage would be reduced by up to 40 per cent, leaving him to "ride it out" and hope for government intervention to improve Australian agriculture.

ACA & Today Tonight are not wrong because you say so.
You act as though what has happened in Goulburn Valley is a lie.

freediver wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 7:38pm:

bump

Did you watch 4 corners tonight ?

Do you ever think those slave workers in Bangladeshi textile sweat shops will ever get out of poverty ?

Don't think so. The rich get richer and the poor get the picture :(

Coles not only screws its suppliers in Australia but they are over in Bangladesh screwing the poorest people in the world :(

Got to look after the shareholders greed at any expense even if others have to die for it :(

Greed is good !!

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2013/06/25/3785918.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201306/r1132467_13967588.jpg

Sir lastnail wrote on Jun 25^th, 2013 at 12:01am:

freediver wrote on Jun 24th, 2013 at 7:38pm: bump Did you watch 4 corners tonight ? Do you ever think those slave workers in Bangladeshi textile sweat shops will ever get out of poverty ? Don't think so. The rich get richer and the poor get the picture :( Coles not only screws its suppliers in Australia but they are over in Bangladesh screwing the poorest people in the world :( Got to look after the shareholders greed at any expense even if others have to die for it :( Greed is good !! http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2013/06/25/3785918.htm http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201306/r1132467_13967588.jpg

Nice little rant.  What do you propose as solutions other than rioting and throwing rocks through the window of a McDonalds? 

Good post Nail,
another example of what free trade is doing -
putting our famers & manufacturers out of business &
exploiting poor people in Bangladesh.

They get $16 per week or was it per month? -
and a single clothes item was sold for $60 in our shops.
They work in fire traps behind metal bars so they can't escape during a fire.
Many have died & their families received nothing.

Quote:

Do you ever think those slave workers in Bangladeshi textile sweat shops will ever get out of poverty ?

Sure, but not by us getting all jingoistic and refusing to buy whatever they make.


Quote:

Coles not only screws its suppliers in Australia but they are over in Bangladesh screwing the poorest people in the world

You sure about that? There is no dole in Bangladesh.


Bobby. wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 11:57pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 24th, 2013 at 7:30pm: They sound fairly mainstream. I can't really comment on what other people have rubbished you for, but if you want to be taken seriously I would not advertise the fact that you watch ACA. But FD, you are using a strawman fallacy - the ideas from ACA & Today Tonight are also repeated in many other stories on TV - you've obviously never watched landline & the internet is full of stories about poor farmers: e.g. http://www.theland.com.au/news/agriculture/agribusiness/general-news/vic-fruit-industrys-execution/2657842.aspx Quote: Federal Independent MP Bob Katter announced he would support the immediate introduction of clear labeling to identify produce place of origin, as a step to protect Australian producers from cheap imports. Click this image to see more photos in our online gallery.  More than 100 growers had their contracts reduced or cut completely, which second-generation orchardist Mario Mete said was devastating for Goulburn Valley growers. "It is heartbreaking – some people have been taken out completely and left with no source of income," he said. Final SPC Ardmona figures are expected to be released next week. Mr Mete anticipated his orchard tonnage would be reduced by up to 40 per cent, leaving him to "ride it out" and hope for government intervention to improve Australian agriculture. ACA & Today Tonight are not wrong because you say so. You act as though what has happened in Goulburn Valley is a lie.

Would you mind pointing out the bit where they say farmers are bulldozing perfectly good trees, which for some reason burn really well, just because of cheap imports?

Bob Katter is not much better than ACA.

Mnemonic wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2013 at 9:53pm:

GA wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 7:27pm: The Aussie farmer (the most destructive feral on the face of the planet) motto is: 'If there's not a quick buck in it burn it, bulldoze it or shoot it.' Spitefully destroying crops & livestock is an Aussie farming tradition. It's not a surprise to me if they're renting the land. They can't afford to keep their "assets" in storage anymore and they can't put it anywhere else (it's illegal), so it's better to destroy it. Blame the laws we have. Without them, we wouldn't have civilisation. My cows would cross over the fence and run over your sheep due to poor infrastructure. Less developed countries simply don't care. If my cows run over your sheep it's your problem, not mine. That's why their products are cheaper. :D

Aussie businesses are doomed. They are uncompetitive, inefficient & overpricing of their products and services. (Aussie's solution to all financial problems is to raise prices, raise wages, raise rents or raise taxes).

As long as we have a small population we are going to be suffering the perils of poor efficiency of scale. And we will have a small population as long as Aussie is in Government. It's Aussie's xenophobia and racism that has kept the population small. The problem isn't the farmers, workers or businesses, it's Aussie himself. Everything will become cheaper if we had a bigger market. And reductions in prices will flow-back to reductions in production costs. It's one of the reasons 'big' countries like the USA have low prices. And why the US citrus industry has managed to keep afloat despite the competition from 'less developed countries'.

Damn right!

Free Trade, along with John Howard's Baby Bonus, are the two biggest disasters brought about in this country.  What it's all about is maximising the profits of the mining and resource sector, while everyone else ends up either dead or homeless.  If you think it's just about the automotive and manufacturing industries, you're dreaming.  Look at a lot of our farmers now; we're buying cheap subsidised products from overseas (although I bet these farmers didn't expect that when many of them initially supported globalisation).  Now because of I.T. and high speed global communication, most of our I.T. and Call Centre workers are now based in Asia or India.  It's all about big corporations being allowed to exploit slave wages wherever they can.  And of the jobs remaining here in Australia, we're bringing in tens of thousands of economic migrants to fill these jobs for lower pay (look at most of the cleaners and aged care workers now).  I'm more than happy to take a pay cut....if the utility companies (gas, electricity, etc.) cut their rates by an equal measure.  Not happening.

Eventually it will reach a crisis point where it costs the wealthy tax payers so much in Centrelink benefits and imprisonment fees that they'll realise we have to restructure our economy.  The problem is, this will take decades, but it's already starting now.  Just look at our prison populations.

DAMN WRONG!

Australia cannot expect to do business with other countries if its not prepared to return the favour. Price is this country's problem, everything is overpriced and that is because the unions and the government have extorted money from the manufacturers and the producers. They have allowed a duopoly to exist for years were producers are made to accept whatever Coles and Woolworth's decide they'll pay. The unions just ask for more and more, the taxpayer has to subsidise industries which are unviable because of this.  Then when they don't get the sales because it's still cheaper to import, they shut shop and put workers on the dole. They just manufacture elsewhere and we import for better quality and better prices.  Free trade isn't this country's problem, poor quality and high prices are.

freediver wrote on Jun 25^th, 2013 at 7:45pm:

Quote: Do you ever think those slave workers in Bangladeshi textile sweat shops will ever get out of poverty ? Sure, but not by us getting all jingoistic and refusing to buy whatever they make. [quote]Coles not only screws its suppliers in Australia but they are over in Bangladesh screwing the poorest people in the world

You sure about that? There is no dole in Bangladesh.


Bobby. wrote on Jun 24^th, 2013 at 11:57pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 24th, 2013 at 7:30pm: They sound fairly mainstream. I can't really comment on what other people have rubbished you for, but if you want to be taken seriously I would not advertise the fact that you watch ACA. But FD, you are using a strawman fallacy - the ideas from ACA & Today Tonight are also repeated in many other stories on TV - you've obviously never watched landline & the internet is full of stories about poor farmers: e.g. http://www.theland.com.au/news/agriculture/agribusiness/general-news/vic-fruit-industrys-execution/2657842.aspx Quote: Federal Independent MP Bob Katter announced he would support the immediate introduction of clear labeling to identify produce place of origin, as a step to protect Australian producers from cheap imports. Click this image to see more photos in our online gallery.  More than 100 growers had their contracts reduced or cut completely, which second-generation orchardist Mario Mete said was devastating for Goulburn Valley growers. "It is heartbreaking – some people have been taken out completely and left with no source of income," he said. Final SPC Ardmona figures are expected to be released next week. Mr Mete anticipated his orchard tonnage would be reduced by up to 40 per cent, leaving him to "ride it out" and hope for government intervention to improve Australian agriculture. ACA & Today Tonight are not wrong because you say so. You act as though what has happened in Goulburn Valley is a lie.

Would you mind pointing out the bit where they say farmers are bulldozing perfectly good trees, which for some reason burn really well, just because of cheap imports?

Bob Katter is not much better than ACA.[/quote]

Always my sources are attacked.
Just happened on this thread too:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1361578582/345




Quote:

Standard straw man fallacy argument: Every youtube  video is false therefore your youtube reference video is also false. BigOl - you are a simpleton incapable of rebutting any point in the video. You are however an expert troll.

GA wrote on Jun 26^th, 2013 at 11:47am:

Mnemonic wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 9:53pm: GA wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 7:27pm: The Aussie farmer (the most destructive feral on the face of the planet) motto is: 'If there's not a quick buck in it burn it, bulldoze it or shoot it.' Spitefully destroying crops & livestock is an Aussie farming tradition. It's not a surprise to me if they're renting the land. They can't afford to keep their "assets" in storage anymore and they can't put it anywhere else (it's illegal), so it's better to destroy it. Blame the laws we have. Without them, we wouldn't have civilisation. My cows would cross over the fence and run over your sheep due to poor infrastructure. Less developed countries simply don't care. If my cows run over your sheep it's your problem, not mine. That's why their products are cheaper. :D Aussie businesses are doomed. They are uncompetitive, inefficient & overpricing of their products and services. (Aussie's solution to all financial problems is to raise prices, raise wages, raise rents or raise taxes). As long as we have a small population we are going to be suffering the perils of poor efficiency of scale. And we will have a small population as long as Aussie is in Government. It's Aussie's xenophobia and racism that has kept the population small. The problem isn't the farmers, workers or businesses, it's Aussie himself. Everything will become cheaper if we had a bigger market. And reductions in prices will flow-back to reductions in production costs. It's one of the reasons 'big' countries like the USA have low prices. And why the US citrus industry has managed to keep afloat despite the competition from 'less developed countries'.

The US only represents about 5% of the world's population, yet the number of people imprisoned in the US makes up about 25% of the world's total prison population....which US tax payers have to pay for.
This is NOT an economic model I wish to follow.

Socrates wrote on Jun 26^th, 2013 at 12:59pm:

DAMN WRONG! Australia cannot expect to do business with other countries if its not prepared to return the favour. Price is this country's problem, everything is overpriced and that is because the unions and the government have extorted money from the manufacturers and the producers. They have allowed a duopoly to exist for years were producers are made to accept whatever Coles and Woolworth's decide they'll pay. The unions just ask for more and more, the taxpayer has to subsidise industries which are unviable because of this.  Then when they don't get the sales because it's still cheaper to import, they shut shop and put workers on the dole. They just manufacture elsewhere and we import for better quality and better prices.  Free trade isn't this country's problem, poor quality and high prices are.

If Australia simply cannot produce something that we require, then I'm all for importing those things we cannot produce ourselves.  Bring it in...in droves.

But that's not what's happening with this madness of "Free Trade".  What the wealthy exporters in Australia are saying is very simple:

"We know full well that people in Australia can produce "Product X" and "Service Y", but since people overseas are desperate, starving, and willing to produce the same (or similar) products and services for a much cheaper cost, I'll import those goods/services. I don't care if the rest of Australia starves and dies."

People in Australia expect a more equitable distribution of wealth that is NOT affected by the madness overseas.  "Free Trade" is simply an means of enforcing a type of economic Darwinism/Survival of the fittest by exploiting large, 3rd world populations that are starving & desperate - if you cannot compete at lower costs, you will starve and die.  If you want to support this type of lunacy, no problem, you can do so by voting for the Liberals.  I'm more than happy to disappoint you that I won't be joining your decision at the ballot box.

Coporations in Australia need to accept they cannot keep increasing their profits at a massive rate, percentage-wise, in comparison to their own workforce and the rest of the population.  Simple.

Aussie Realist wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

GA wrote on Jun 26th, 2013 at 11:47am: Mnemonic wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 9:53pm: GA wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 7:27pm: The Aussie farmer (the most destructive feral on the face of the planet) motto is: 'If there's not a quick buck in it burn it, bulldoze it or shoot it.' Spitefully destroying crops & livestock is an Aussie farming tradition. It's not a surprise to me if they're renting the land. They can't afford to keep their "assets" in storage anymore and they can't put it anywhere else (it's illegal), so it's better to destroy it. Blame the laws we have. Without them, we wouldn't have civilisation. My cows would cross over the fence and run over your sheep due to poor infrastructure. Less developed countries simply don't care. If my cows run over your sheep it's your problem, not mine. That's why their products are cheaper. :D Aussie businesses are doomed. They are uncompetitive, inefficient & overpricing of their products and services. (Aussie's solution to all financial problems is to raise prices, raise wages, raise rents or raise taxes). As long as we have a small population we are going to be suffering the perils of poor efficiency of scale. And we will have a small population as long as Aussie is in Government. It's Aussie's xenophobia and racism that has kept the population small. The problem isn't the farmers, workers or businesses, it's Aussie himself. Everything will become cheaper if we had a bigger market. And reductions in prices will flow-back to reductions in production costs. It's one of the reasons 'big' countries like the USA have low prices. And why the US citrus industry has managed to keep afloat despite the competition from 'less developed countries'. The US only represents about 5% of the world's population, yet the number of people imprisoned in the US makes up about 25% of the world's total prison population....which US tax payers have to pay for. This is NOT an economic model I wish to follow.

You've applied your own (simple) interpretation to as why there is so much criminality in the US. And, being a charlatan, you avoid offering any economic, or for that matter, any argument at all as a 'model'.