Post by Aussie on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:28pm
Oh look a 'death penalty' thread, at last!
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General Discussion >> General Board >> The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1372309675 Message started by Herbert on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:07pm |
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Title: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Herbert on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:07pm
A new thread because the Search facility on this board is crap.
The Death Penalty. Texas despatched 500 since 1976. I'm all for the death penalty, but only in certain cases. It's utterly ridiculous that this woman had to sit on Death Row for 14 years before they applied the original sentence. She was an addict at the time she committed the murder. She's been clean for 14 years. She's definitely not the person she was. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:13pm "The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd..." Yep, they're are some very strange folk in society: people who seem to think that state-sanctioned killing is acceptable. Takes all kinds I suppose. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Kat on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:21pm
I'm unequivocally opposed to the Death penalty.
Always was, always will be. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Herbert on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:22pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:13pm:
Abortion clinics ... soldiers ... sailors ...airmen ... the police ... armed security guards ... ... all of them State-sanctioned killing utilities and functionaries. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:28pm
Oh look a 'death penalty' thread, at last!
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:28pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:22pm:
Sorry, I should have clarified. Yep, they're are some very strange folk in society: people who seem to think that premeditated state-sanctioned killing is acceptable as a form of punishment. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:29pm Aussie wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:28pm:
Right about now we should see bobby come in with a "hang em high" youtube video ... |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by dsmithy70 on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:41pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:29pm:
His too busy masturbating to the "Homo Porn" Aussie posted ;) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Herbert on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:47pm
bummer
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:48pm Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:41pm:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj3VphK9AMk Hey bobby? ;) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:51pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:47pm:
I didn't modify my opinion: I modified the text. My opinion has always been that premeditated state-sanctioned killing is not an acceptable form of punishment. Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:47pm:
I think you'll find they do. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Herbert on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:51pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:28pm:
Ah! You see? You CAN modify your opinion if you really want to. Too late for Kat though. He/she has long since decided to give his/her cerebral cortex a bypass on this subject. Too Hot to Handle, maybe. Some don't want to get offside with God, so ... um, Greg ... our military personnel going into combat situations do NOT have a premeditated willingness to take life? They carry their guns in the hope of selling them to the local villagers for goat hunting and shooting lame donkeys... ? 8-) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:55pm
...
Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:47pm:
I didn't modify my opinion: I modified the text. My opinion has always been that premeditated state-sanctioned killing is not an acceptable form of punishment. Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:47pm:
I think you'll find they do. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:59pm
Hang em high.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsMQABEiRMc Not that there is anything wrong with it. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Herbert on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:03pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:51pm:
I accept your right to have this opinion. In the final washup it really doesn't matter what happens to these serial killers and serial rapists ~~ the damage has already been done. But then again, I'm drawn to the fact that the surviving families of these murder and rape victims need to feel that society has a justice system that does not allow for leniency and compassion towards these perpetrators. The only closure the immediate family of murder victims have is when the perpetrator dies. For as long as the serial killer and rapists are alive and enjoying the comforts and entertainments found in prisons, the family members of the deceased are in a limbo of unresolved grieving and bereavement. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:06pm Bobby. wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:59pm:
Oh, there's a lot wrong with lowering oneself to accept premeditated state-sanctioned killing as a punishment. Anyway bobby, this video is much better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7Q9ZEdOLSE |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by dsmithy70 on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:08pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:03pm:
Only if they choose too allow this person to run their lives. Seriously their in prison not ideal maybe but still liberty is curtailed. They get out, well retribution can be sort if so inclined. Your only a victim if you allow yourself to be. (although in today's society everyone wants to be one, faux outrage & perceived hurt abounds >:() |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:13pm Bobby. wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:59pm:
Atta boy Bobby! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHpm-52_WcI |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:14pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:03pm:
Oh "closure", please. Spare me the Oprah words. ::) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by FriYAY on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:14pm
Plenty we should still drag out the back and put down like bad dogs.
Milat, Knight, Bryant to name a few. BANG BANG BANG |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:17pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:06pm:
My video was better. That Irishman made a good speech. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:26pm Bobby. wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:17pm:
Come on bobby. Mine had a cowbell solo! |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:37pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:26pm:
Mine showed the horror better. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Herbert on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:38pm Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:08pm:
It's not optional for the families, any more than it is optional for returned soldiers to have nightmares. The thought that the person who raped and killed your daughter is alive and well and being taken good care of in a prison is bound to play on your mind. Only with death does that resolve itself. Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:08pm:
;D You should be a psychiatrist. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:41pm Bobby. wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:37pm:
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Kat on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:42pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:51pm:
smack-all to do with God. I don't support the DP. That's all I said, and it's all that needs to be said. And, agree or disagree, that decision should be respected, not ridiculed or minimised. I do not have to justify my reasons here, or anywhere else, and will not do so. The put-down was totally unjustified. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Herbert on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:44pm
I remember late one night a man phoned up the Brian Wilshire talkback show on Radio 2GB.
They talked for a while, and then he was asked what his personal interest was in the subject. He then admitted that many years ago he had killed a man who had molested his young daughter. He spoke very quietly, in a very relaxed way. Brian asked if he had ever regretted doing what he'd done, and he said 'no'. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by dsmithy70 on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:58pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:44pm:
Did he catch the man in the act? If so, then I would assume most parents would do the same & good on them, I know I would. Or did he just "THINK" it was him? That is the core issue surrounding the death penalty. There is no release with a "Sorry" at the end of it if new evidence comes to light. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Herbert on Jun 27th, 2013 at 5:17pm Kat wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:42pm:
Oh no. You said a lot more than that. Your "always have and always will" was admitting to a closed mind. It was an admission of you no longer being willing to exercise your intelligence or your intellect on the subject. Seventh Day Adventists manifest the same stubbornness regarding refusal to permit blood transfusions for their dying offspring after car accidents. "Never have and never will!" They chant proudly, in lockstep with biblical dogma. Kat wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:42pm:
But this thread isn't a poll, is it? We're not looking for 'Yes' and 'No' polling here. Debate, discussion, and the exchange of ideas and opinions is expected from anyone posting in this thread. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 27th, 2013 at 5:21pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:13pm:
and then there are the texans who arent even all that fixated on the idea of being sure they are guilty... or sane... or mentally competent... 200 people set free from death row by Project INnocence in only 13 years indicates that justice has a funny way of getting it wrong and the DP makes correcting those mistakes impossible. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jun 27th, 2013 at 5:21pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 5:17pm:
Nah, Herbert, the subject has been done to death here, and if you were not trolling you would have found one of the existing threads, and added your OP there. All you are doing is having another 'look at me' wank. Cheers. :) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Herbert on Jun 27th, 2013 at 5:22pm Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:58pm:
Shďt happens. Society does its best, but nothing is guaranteed. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Herbert on Jun 27th, 2013 at 5:30pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 5:21pm:
The Devil is in the detail. State governors in the US often release prisoners from death row as part of their platform promises in their re-election campaigns. But I agree that if 'Reasonable doubt' can be proved - then okay, release them from death row. But bear in mind that a high percentage of these death row inmates had former convictions a mile long of rape and theft and drug dealing. They are no saints. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 27th, 2013 at 5:52pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 5:30pm:
I've never seen anyone claim that people on death row are saints. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 27th, 2013 at 5:53pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 5:22pm:
Not always. A society that uses premeditated state-sanctioned killing as a form of punishment is in no way doing its best. Not even close. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Kat on Jun 27th, 2013 at 6:06pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 5:17pm:
Basically, you are attempting to belittle me simply because I made a decision you disagree with. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 27th, 2013 at 6:40pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 5:30pm:
the werent released from Death Row dummy. They were released from prison by virtue of having their convictions overturned. Try adn keep up. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 27th, 2013 at 6:42pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 5:52pm:
actually a surprising number have no criminal record at all. Not that it should matter. Guilt should be proven not inferred or expected. No wonder you like the death penaly. You ahve an appalling concept of justice. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 27th, 2013 at 6:44pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:03pm:
What an extraordinary generalisation. How can you claim to know what is in the mind of every family member of every murder victim? The justice system is not about vengeance or "closure" for the victim's family. No nation that practises judicial murder is truly civilised. Every time there is a particularly nasty killing, the "hang 'em high" mob crawl out of their holes to vent their blood lust. Then they crawl back in till the next time. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jun 27th, 2013 at 7:28pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 6:44pm:
What hang em high mob? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsMQABEiRMc |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by brumbie on Jun 27th, 2013 at 7:36pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:07pm:
I recently finished a book by John Grisham concerning the over zealous hangem high attitude of the Texans called The Confession: http://www.jgrisham.com/the-confession/ The article you refer to brings it to life somewhat. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 27th, 2013 at 7:50pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 6:42pm:
You got the wrong person. I am totally against the death penalty. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by brumbie on Jun 27th, 2013 at 8:02pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 6:44pm:
A bit like the Anti Gun Lobbyists after the latest school massacre in the Usa you mean? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 27th, 2013 at 8:06pm brumbie wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 8:02pm:
Absolutely nothing like the "Anti Gun Lobbyists after the latest school massacre in the Usa". Anti-gun lobbyists want to see the killing stop. The "hang 'em high" mob want to see the killing continue. See if you can spot the difference. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by brumbie on Jun 27th, 2013 at 8:12pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 8:06pm:
I did spot the difference...I was kinda wondering if you did |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Herbert on Jun 27th, 2013 at 8:13pm
Peter:
Quote:
Good grief, you really are out of touch with modern trends, Peter. 'Victim Impact Statements' have been a feature of our criminal courts for quite some years now. It's suppose to help give some measure of closure and catharsis for the families of victims of brutal murders and suchlike. And needless to say, 'vengeance' is still very much a valid part of today's concept of jurisprudence. Punishment is still thought to be a reasonable response to those who commit crimes upon the individual and society in general. Peter: Quote:
Oh come on! You got that out of a Fortune Cookie didn't you? I got mine out of one of those pull-the-ends firecrackers at a party not so long ago. Your use of the term 'murder' in this context does nothing but demonstrate that being on shaky ground you need to employ the sort of language that will appeal to the Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder crowd up in the peanut gallery. What do you say about 'military murder'? Used to throw red paint at our soldiers returning from Vietnam, did you? Peter: Quote:
Is aboriginal 'payback' okay with you? Not a problem in THEIR case ... ? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 27th, 2013 at 8:18pm brumbie wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 8:12pm:
Absolutely. Anti-gun lobby = good citizens. Hang 'em high mob = irrational blood thirsty sheep. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 27th, 2013 at 8:20pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 8:13pm:
Persisting with these ridiculous Oprah words does absolutely nothing for your credibility. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by brumbie on Jun 27th, 2013 at 8:38pm
Give me one link where it has been proved that sheep are irrational and blood thirsty.HahHaHa...see you can't can you?...hahahaha...guess who i am...hahaha...seriously i'm a lefterd hahaha.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 27th, 2013 at 8:41pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 7:50pm:
sorry... was referring to Herbert via your quote of his stilliness. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 27th, 2013 at 8:43pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 8:13pm:
Oh come on! You got that out of a Fortune Cookie didn't you? I got mine out of one of those pull-the-ends firecrackers at a party not so long ago. Your use of the term 'murder' in this context does nothing but demonstrate that being on shaky ground you need to employ the sort of language that will appeal to the Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder crowd up in the peanut gallery. What do you say about 'military murder'? Used to throw red paint at our soldiers returning from Vietnam, did you? Peter: Quote:
Is aboriginal 'payback' okay with you? Not a problem in THEIR case ... ? [/quote] damn,. you are dumb. are you SOB?? vengeance is NOT a part of our judicial system. IN fact, it is specifically NOT about vengeance. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 27th, 2013 at 8:50pm brumbie wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 8:38pm:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gEDUDmZkyc "SHEEP: 1. A group of people who lack the capacity for careful consideration, imagination, or individual thought ... " http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sheep |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 27th, 2013 at 8:52pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 8:50pm:
NOW you want to use a dictionary???? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Herbert on Jun 27th, 2013 at 8:57pm
This Ozpolitic board seems to have a bad problem with swarms of delinquent pests who very quickly invade and overwhelm new threads that show some promise for having a decent discussion.
I would have a segregated area of the board where certain members are banned from participating. It really is becoming apparent to me that I'm wasting my time here. There are some good posters here, but the graffiti hooligans win the day, most days. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 27th, 2013 at 9:07pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 8:52pm:
We're not discussing legislation. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jun 27th, 2013 at 9:07pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 8:57pm:
Yes, you are Herbert, and you are also wasting your time by duplicating Threads on issues done and dusted a zillion times here. It was not so long ago I recall trying to inform you how absurd it was to attempt to credibly draw an analogy between the administration of justice and the administration of a War. You are a troll of the most obvious kind, one I'd like to buy at my price and sell at yours. Cheers. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 27th, 2013 at 9:11pm Aussie wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 9:07pm:
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 27th, 2013 at 10:51pm
an eye for an eye. We need to bring this form of justice back and force the poofs who think its "socially unacceptable" to watch the executions. Singapore has a very low crime rate, they have got it right. Execute the drug dealers and use the bamboo cane for minor offences such as littering and offensive behaviour.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 28th, 2013 at 6:20am longweekend58 wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 8:43pm:
Is aboriginal 'payback' okay with you? Not a problem in THEIR case ... ? [/quote] damn,. you are dumb. are you SOB?? vengeance is NOT a part of our judicial system. IN fact, it is specifically NOT about vengeance. [/quote] So anyone that disagrees with you is me now? You are seriously stupid SOB |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 28th, 2013 at 6:22am ian wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 10:51pm:
Yet i expect you are one of those ppl that thinks some muslim countries are subhuman for doing just that SOB |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Kat on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:25am Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 6:44pm:
This is curious. Herb supports Peter's right to hold an opinion that opposes the DP. But goes into attack-mode when I express the same view. Something's wrong here..... |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Herbert on Jun 28th, 2013 at 8:11am Kat wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:25am:
"Let's move FORWARD shall we? We're going to move FORWARD" quote, Julia Gillard to media crush. I apologise if I seemed a little harsh, but we're moving on ~ we're moving FORWARD now ... So ... 1. As things stand, I wouldn't vote for the Death Penalty. My reason is that far too many provoked murderers are given the chop in the USA. Example: A Black ghetto rat enters a liquor store with a .38 and demands of the Korean shop owner that he hand over the contents of the till ~ a paltry few dollars at best. And then, with the jived-up black pointing the .38 at the Korean's head ~ incredibly, the Korean shop owner swings a rifle into view from under the counter. Happens all the time with Asian shop keepers. The black pulls the trigger and is soon sitting on death row. Not in a fit would I give this black the death penalty for what he did. 2. Possibly 70 to 80% of murders in the US are related to 'turf wars' where gang members kill each other for a bigger share of the profits. Criminals killing criminals would not attract the death penalty in my court. But how many Hispanics and blacks are sitting on death row because they 'wasted' some street scum over crack cocaine distribution rights? 3. Wives/girlfriends who eventually kill long-time abusive husbands. No death penalty from me. 4. Paedophiles ... no death sentence, but life in prison, never to be released. 5. Traitors ~ death penalty. 6. Serial killers ~ death penalty. 7. Crimes again humanity ~ death penalty. 8. Premeditated murder of an innocent party ~ death penalty. 9. Murder by reason of insanity ~ life behind bars, never to be released. 10. Planning a terrorist act designed to take life ~ death penalty. In all cases of the death penalty the prisoner must not be left waiting for more than 12 months. All appeals must be completed within this time. 11. No death sentence on circumstantial evidence. 12. Forensic Science has been thoroughly discredited in the past two years by independent researchers appointed by the US judiciary. This poses the problem of convicting upon the dubious 'evidence' of forensic investigations. If you haven't seen this particular doco ~ then I recommended it to you. It's a shocker. The abuses and the half-baked 'science' has been a disgrace. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 28th, 2013 at 9:58am
Herbert, yes, I am aware of VIS. They are as you describe, but are quite separate from the question of sentencing.
What is the death penalty if it is not premeditated killing? Isn't that the definition of murder? I oppose the death penalty for various reasons. Firstly there is no proof it is a deterrent. In fact quite the opposite. In US states where the government takes life, this encourages citizens to do so as well. Secondly it makes the state no better than the criminals it executes. Thirdly the very real possibility of error. You can take life, but not give it back. The last man executed in NZ was later found to be innocent. There have been two major cases (Arthur Alan Thomas and David Bain) where juries were subsequently found to have been wrong. In one case, Thomas, two juries convicted him. It was later found police had planted evidence. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by FriYAY on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:16am Dsmithy70 wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 4:58pm:
Yes, but there are plenty when the guilt is obvious isnt there? Do you think Milat will be cleared at a later date? Julian Knight? Martin Bryant? No, no ,no. Bang Bang Bang |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:17am Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 9:58am:
1. Funny how this doesn't occur in japan who also have the DP, but don't around killing people; I dare say it would be very similar in many other countries with the DP. The US is the US and a lot of what they do does NOT extrapolated to the rest of the world. 2. No it doesn't, a dead scumbag is nothing more than a dead scumbag; there is no moral issue here. 3. When handing out the DP, use it sparingly and dare I say it judiciously, like most non-nutbag countries outside of the US do, where they have the DP. The US is not the yard stick for the proper application of the DP, but is is the ''go to country' for those with weak emotional arguments. The DP is not about learning lessons, or rehabilitation or even crime prevention, it is about ensuring that one particular scumbag does not get released into the world, ever. We all know there is always a small group of socialist sh1theads working to ensure every scumbag gets to walk free. We have them in Aus, they are usually judges and the parole board but they very much include defence barristers and other lowlifes. Try not to get to emotional about the death of a piece of sh1t and since we in Australia love having our filth freed as soon as possible, walking the street no matter what, all is jum dandy. Sh1t in this country, being sentenced "Never to be Released" does not mean you never walk the streets again, all you have to do is wait for the right judge to hear your case and out the door you go. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by FriYAY on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:23am Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 9:58am:
1. It is a punishment doesnt have to deter anyone. 2. Thats just your opinion many dont share it 3. But there are plenty that are guilty beyond any doubt especially serial killers (Milat, Deyner) and mass murderers (Knight, Bryant) All punishments laid down in law are premeditated the whole state sanctioned premeditated murder line is just soooo hysterical. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:24am BigOl64 wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:17am:
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:37am Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 9:58am:
Yep, it's premeditated killing. Nobody is going to argue with you on that point. Premeditated, state-sanctioned killing. Quite disturbing. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:43am greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:37am:
Only if you are a fully functioning soft c0ck, otherwise it's nothing more than throwing out the garbage. The state kills lots and lots of people, Australia has been carrying out state sanctioned killing since federation. At least killing scumbags is a net benefit. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by FriYAY on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:46am greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:37am:
LOL All state sanctioned punishments are premeditated FFS. You still have to break the law to be punished, yes? The state doesnt go around looking for people to kill or punish does it? No, they come to them, via heinous despicable crimes. The premeditated state sanctioned murder line is hysterical bollocks. ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:48am BigOl64 wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:43am:
Not withstanding your obsession with male genitalia, the death penalty is indeed premeditated, state-sanctioned killing. This is not an opinion: it's a cold hard fact. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:50am FriYAY wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:46am:
Correct. The death penalty is premeditated, state-sanctioned killing. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Socrates on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:51am
You're not getting excited by this are you peccahead?
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:53am Socrates wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:51am:
What a very strange, irrational, and irrelevant question. :-/ Oh, it's you Socrates: now I understand. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:54am greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:48am:
And as I pointed out, the state has be sanctioning killing since federation and will continue to do so; so fvcken what. It is merely and extension of the status quo and an overall benefit. Mentioning once that you are a soft c0ck, isn't quite an obsession now is it, unless the definition of obsession has change in the last day or so. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by FriYAY on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:56am greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:50am:
:) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:57am FriYAY wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:56am:
Oh, I see. So they don't actually kill the person? Fascinating. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Herbert on Jun 28th, 2013 at 11:15am Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 9:58am:
I accept your apology. Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 9:58am:
For God sake man! Stop playing with semantics or I'll issue a Fatwa against you! You won't want to meet Mustafa the Machete Maniac on your doorstep at midnight during a full moon. He's known to utter long and mournful ululations to the moon before and after he has fulfilled his contract. There are all sorts of definitions that describe different kinds of human killings. My brother wasn't 'murdered' when the palliative care doctor happened to give the syringe-plunger a bit of a nudge that delivered an overdose of morphine. During WWII it wasn't murder when my headmaster shot a soldier who was sitting against a fence with half his head blown off. Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 9:58am:
There's also no proof that it isn't a deterrent. How many women are raped by ... quote: family members, neighbours, people they know, work colleagues'? Heaps. And yet these easily identified rapists don't kill the victim in order to conceal their identity. How many men are in jail for rape? Thousands ... because they didn't dare go that next step and throttle their victims. Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 9:58am:
That's a Good News story. Moral degenerates climbing into people's houses at night for a bit of burglary and perhaps with the hope of a little rape-action as a bonus - deserve to have themselves terminated by irate husbands and single-occupier spinsters and widows. No tears from a majority of the population I dare guess. Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 9:58am:
This is a favourite of Kat's. Unfortunately its bunkum, of course. The State does not terminate the lives of horrific murderers for reasons of criminal mischief and moral degeneracy. Certain individuals are so monstrous in their psychology that these judicial executions should be seen more in the nature of 'late terminations' than anything else. They should have been aborted at birth. Better late than never. The removal of these Hannibal Lecters gives finality to the families of victims, as well as ensuring they never offend again. There is no such thing as 'life' in prison. It means 25 years ~ and then the parole system kicks in. Not good enough. Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 9:58am:
Read my above post. No death penalty upon circumstantial evidence. Too much opportunity for tampering with the evidence to produce a desired outcome. I take your point that the police are totally untrustworthy when giving evidence in court. I agree. Well, Peter, I think we can reach a compromise. If you promise me never to ask a palliative care doctor to shorten your life of misery on your death bed ~ (it's Murder Most Foul you've told us here) ~ then I promise I'll vote "No" if I ever find myself on a jury in a murder case. Do we have a deal? 8-) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by FriYAY on Jun 28th, 2013 at 11:17am greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:57am:
Incidental its only punishment. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 11:30am Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 6:22am:
I dont support Sharia law but I do support the types of punishments I mentioned. Good try at a strawman argument though. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 11:31am
The death penalty serves a purpose in society, the fact that it is punihsment is incidental.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by The Grappler on Jun 28th, 2013 at 11:54am ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 11:31am:
"I'll do anything, Br'er Turnkey - jes' don' put me up in dat 'lectric chair!" "It's on'y incidental, Br'er Rabbit! Take it like a man! Dis here Green Mile awful long, but ain' no thang! " |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 28th, 2013 at 12:40pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 11:15am:
Not true. For example, Victoria: "In Victoria, only the Supreme Court can impose a life sentence. A term of life means for the term of an offenders natural life. However, the court must fix a non-parole period for any sentence of two years or more, unless it considers that the nature of the offence or the past history of the offender makes it inappropriate to fix a non-parole period. If a non-parole period is not set for a life sentence, the offender will remain in prison for their whole life." https://sentencingcouncil.vic.gov.au/page/about-sentencing/sentencing-information/sentencing-options/sentencing-adults/imprisonment Example number two: "MARTIN BRYANT - on each of the 35 counts of murder in this indictment you are sentenced to imprisonment for the term of your natural life. "I order that you not be eligible for parole in respect of any such sentence. "On each of the remaining counts in the indictment, you are sentenced to imprisonment for 21 years to be served concurrently with each other and the concurrent sentences of life imprisonment already imposed. "In respoect of each sentence of 21 years, I order that you likewise not be eligible for parole." http://www.geniac.net/portarthur/sentence.htm |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 1:25pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 11:15am:
It actually varies state by state. Most states must set a minimum term, in Western australia for instance the average life term is around 14 years before parole. But you make a good point, life does not mean life at all under sentencing laws. It should mean in all cases for the term of your natural life. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 28th, 2013 at 1:34pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 1:25pm:
He doesn't make a good point at all: he made a mistake. His statement was incorrect. "There is no such thing as 'life' in prison. It means 25 years ~ and then the parole system kicks in." Wrong. Not everybody gets parole. http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1372309675/82#82 |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 28th, 2013 at 2:30pm FriYAY wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 10:23am:
How can a simple fact be hysterical -even "sooo hysterical"? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 3:37pm Bobby. wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 7:28pm:
bump |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 28th, 2013 at 3:42pm |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Herbert on Jun 28th, 2013 at 3:51pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 12:40pm:
Nice try, but these sentences of ... "For the term of your natural life" have a history of being rescinded and revoked in later years. 25 years down the track ~ (and sometimes sooner) ~ these sentences start to be 'reviewed'. Our court system is always open to appeal after appeal, until the desired result is forthcoming. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 3:53pm ian wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 10:51pm:
you need to read a bit more about Singapores 'justice' system which doesnt grant the right to free speech, a proper trial or due process. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:01pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 3:51pm:
You forgot to provide some evidence. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:03pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 3:53pm:
huh? No justice system grants the "right to free speech" thats normally a consitutional right and is always relative, no country has the right to absolute free speech. As for the other 2 points, wrong on both counts. Maybe you need to read a bit more. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:05pm
I have noticed that with rare exception, most supporters of the Death Penalty give short shrift or in come cases, total disregard for the concept of GUILT. Reasonable doubt seems okay. The death penalty must always attract the very highest standard of evidence - much higher than the average 'absence of reasonable doubt' but rather absence of ANY doubt. But the experience of all countries that apply the DP is that they use it not sparingly but rather often and the number of post-execution proofs of innocence are disturbingly high. But supporters of the DP seem almost to a man, totally disinterested in the problem of judicial failings or police corruption. As long as someone is killed, their lust is sated... for a while.
Again with rare exception, vocal supporters of the DP tend to be frustrated or violent people seeking to see others die - even if not by their own hand (although a disturbing number offer to do so!). The concept of guilt - absolute guilt - rarely gets even thought about. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:05pm Bobby. wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 3:37pm:
bump |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:06pm Bobby. wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:05pm:
as if to prove the point... |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:12pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:05pm:
ahhh, emotional rhetoric aimed at portraying DP supprters as rabid blood lusters. what nonsense, most supporters of the DP incluidng myself simply recognise that there are those amongst us who appear human but are not and should be put down. And under our legal system if there is reasonable doubt, the accused is found innocent, not gulity. I wonder where you people get these bizarre ideas from. It is extraordinarly rare for an innocent person to be found guilty under our system, so rare that there hasnt been a case of wrongful imprisonment for decades. Now with the advent of DNA science it is almost impossible for it to happen. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:13pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:05pm:
Or you could be wrong. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:20pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:03pm:
What planet do you live on ian? Seriously? Have you ever heard of Singapore? "Singapore's transition from a due process model to a crime control model occurred in 1976 ... " http://simply-inconceivable.blogspot.com.au/2008/03/due-process-or-crime-control.html "Singapores belief in the crime control model has led to a significant dismantling of the traditional common law adversarial system. The utilitarian emphases on crime control and efficiency combine to shift much of the fact-finding process and decisionmaking from judges and trials to police and prosecutors at the pre-trial stage. Much of the cluster of rights protecting the adversarial process are significantly pruned. "The right to counsel exists, but is subordinated to the needs of police investigation, which includes the procurement of self-incriminatory statements admissible in court. "No published rules or guidelines governing the manner of police interrogation exist. "The right to silence has been declared not to be a constitutional right ... " http://www.isrcl.org/Papers/Hor.pdf " ... the excessive focus on crime control rather than due process ... " https://mercury.smu.edu.sg/rsrchpubupload/17580/WrongfulConvictionsInSingapore%5B1%5D.pdf |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:21pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:12pm:
The last case I heard of was just recently in Nth QLD, where the police prosecutor withheld exculpatory evidence from the defence and a person was imprisoned for 15 yrs before it was uncovered End result, he was released and now looks to sue the state, the cop quit before any internal investigation was completed and no charges have been laid against the cop. In the event this sort of thing occurred in a DP case the cop should face murder charges and take their chances with the courts. Pity you can't fully trust the judiciary or the cops to do their job professionally. >:( |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:22pm
.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:23pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:22pm:
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Herbert on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:26pm BigOl64 wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:21pm:
Good point. Police officers later found to have falsified evidence in cases of the death penalty where the prisoner has been convicted, should themselves be placed on death row. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:28pm
Good point Herbert.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:29pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:26pm:
Maybe not death row, but definitely a long time in prison to think about the pros and cons of with holding or falsifying evidence. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:40pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:05pm:
My Gawd, what have you done with the real longy, you fiend? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:45pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:23pm:
LOL Singapore moved away from a due process model to a crime control model in the '70s. This isn't "someone's opinion": it's a fact. ;D Here, this will help you understand the difference: http://www.ask.com/question/crime-control-model-v-due-process Oh ian, nobody will ever take this away from you: You are a very funny fellow. ;D |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:45pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:12pm:
ian, don't be absurd. You have no idea how many innocent people are sitting in prison, no-one does. DNA science isn't infallible and many cases are decided without it. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:47pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:45pm:
You're kidding, right? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:49pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:01pm:
Hello? Herbert? Have you forgotten something? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:56pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:12pm:
Oh ian, my dear boy. I'm starting to think you're putting on an act now. Nobody could be as naive as you are pretending to be. http://www.innocenceprojectwa.org.au/ |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:19pm
Due process simply means that the state must respect all the legal rights available to a person under the law. There is no argument that Singapore does not do this. Your posts are becoimgn even more incoherent garbage Graggary. You simlpy should not be discussing any of this because you do not understand basic legal concepts.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:20pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:45pm:
nonsense, blog and opinion posts mean nothing. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:24pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:56pm:
Might pay you to read what you actually post, You have no idea what you are talking about. There is a huge difference betwqeen wrongful conviction and innocence, I suggest you learn it. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:24pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:12pm:
i think you've been hiding under a rock. No less than 200 people on death row in the USA have had their convictions overturnd (ie found innocent) in just 13 years. and in australia, wrong ful convictions happen all the time. Remember Vic a few yeas ago that convicted a man of rape despite having an airtight alibi on the basis of DNA evidence? oops! the dna system was found to be tainted. And I repeat that by using terms such as 'put down' you ARE displaying bloodlust. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:25pm
Article 9 of the Constitution of Singapore
A cell of the Old Supreme Court Building lock-up. Article 9 of the Constitution guarantees the rights to life and personal liberty and other rights of arrested persons, but these rights are not absolute. Article 9 of the Constitution of the Republic of Singapore, specifically Article 9(1), guarantees the right to life and the right to personal liberty. The Court of Appeal has called the right to life the most basic of human rights, but has yet to fully define the term in the Constitution. Contrary to the broad position taken in jurisdictions such as Malaysia and the United States, the High Court of Singapore has said that personal liberty only refers to freedom from unlawful incarceration or detention. Article 9(1) states that persons may be deprived of life or personal liberty "in accordance with law". In Ong Ah Chuan v. Public Prosecutor (1980), an appeal to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council from Singapore, it was held that the term law means more than just legislation validly enacted by Parliament, and includes fundamental rules of natural justice. Subsequently, in Yong Vui Kong v. Attorney-General (2011), the Court of Appeal held that such fundamental rules of natural justice embodied in the Constitution are the same in nature and function as common law rules of natural justice in administrative law, except that they operate at different levels of the legal order. A related decision, Yong Vui Kong v. Public Prosecutor (2010), apparently rejected the contention that Article 9(1) entitles courts to examine the substantive fairness of legislation, though it asserted a judicial discretion to reject bills of attainder and absurd or arbitrary legislation. In the same case, the Court of Appeal held that law in Article 9(1) does not include rules of customary international law. Other subsections of Article 9 enshrine rights accorded to persons who have been arrested, namely, the right to apply to the High Court to challenge the legality of their detention, the right to be informed of the grounds of arrest, the right to counsel, and the right to be produced before a magistrate within 48 hours of arrest. These rights do not apply to enemy aliens or to persons arrested for contempt of Parliament. The Constitution also specifically exempts the Criminal Law (Temporary Provisions) Act (Cap. 67, 2000 Rev. Ed.), the Internal Security Act (Cap. 143, 1985 Rev. Ed.), and Part IV of the Misuse of Drugs Act (Cap. 185, 2008 Rev. Ed.) from having to comply with Article 9. Like I said, there is no argument that Singapore does not allow due process. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:28pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:24pm:
Im not talking about the US justice system Obviously their system has significant flaws. And Im talking about wrongful murder convictions, not other offences since we are talking about cases where the death penalty is involved. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:28pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:40pm:
LOL... there is this funny thing Ive discovered about those that debate with passion and intelligence on apparently opposite sides. They tend to actually have similar opinions on many things and vary only on the edges or the process of getting there. Unfortunately, a lot of people on places like this are actually just plain stupid, ignorant and ill-informed. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Herbert on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:29pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:40pm:
He's having a long weekend. He'll be back. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:29pm
again, I suggest you people learn the diufference between basic legal l concepts before commenting in this thread lest you end up looking like Greggary.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Herbert on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:31pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 4:28pm:
Thank you, Ian. I believe you and I might be the only sane ones here. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:31pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:24pm:
as someone who cherishes the meanings of words, you are absolutely right. The error in your argument however is in assuming that they aren't the same thing in many cases. Mind you, your arguments have been to date been rather simplistic and lacking in any real-world information. And we haven't even moved onto moral grounds. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:35pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:28pm:
so no wrongful murder convictions? History - ours included - is LITTERED with examples of wrongful convictions for murder. Lindy Chamberlain anyone??? etc etc etc But I wil ask you this which of course you will no answer and no pro-DP ever does. "What is the acceptable rate of error in applying the DP that you would accept and still retain it?" I look forward to your repeated ignoring of this question. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:36pm
As I stated, extremely rare and in cases where it might have attracted the death penalty were that still in force , decades ago. Most "wrongful convictions" do not mean the defendant was innocent but rather convicted wrongly on points of law. Huge difference between wrongful conviction and innocence. There are cases such as violent rape and homicide where the law does not get it wrong simply because DNA is such a crucial part of the evidence. It is possible to enforce the death oenalty in cases where guilt irs irrevocable, i.e decide not only by eye witness testimony but also cirumstantial and DNA evidence, We have recently had a cse in W.A. where the defenant was quite obviously guilty but found not guilty because of the way the police handled the cahin of evidence. It is much more common for this top happen rather than wrongful conviction to occur.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:38pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:29pm:
Innocence is not a legal concept. And if you had half a brain you would know that. A court doesnt actually declare you to be innocent. it declares you not guilty beyond reasonable doubt which are quite different. While it is tru that in many cases if not most they are effectively the same thing, 'innocence' is NOT a legal status. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:39pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:36pm:
actually it is not 'extremely rare' at all. it is at best, 'uncommon'. But I look forward to you answering (or more likely, ignoring) my question before. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:43pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:38pm:
No kidding Einstein, I never stated it was. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:44pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:39pm:
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:45pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:44pm:
voila... avoiding the question as do ALL DP advocates. So tell me (if you would of course), what is YOUR acceptable rate of innocent executions that you could tolerate and still support the DP? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:46pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:45pm:
Zero. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:48pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:46pm:
so you cannot possibly support the DP in australia since we have wrongful convictions for murder. Lindy chamberlain for instance. Or Andrew Mallard or Darryl Beamish and the list goes on. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:54pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:20pm:
No nonsense. Singapore moved away from a due process model to a crime control model in the '70s. This isn't "someone's opinion": it's a fact. What makes this even funnier, is the fact that you keep denying it. When you leave school and get a job, ian, I suggest you do some travelling (and buy a few books). Your limited understanding on just about every subject in this forum is making you look quite the fool. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:56pm
Show me the list of people wrongly executed, not wrongfully concvicted. I doubt any of those cases would have attracted the death penalty. I dont see anyone advocating a mandatory death penalty which is the only context in which your argument would make sense.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:57pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:54pm:
Pure nonsense. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 6:03pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:56pm:
what kind of illogical argument is that??? the list of wrongly executed people iw widely available so go look it up for yourself. But if you are proposing a return to the DP then the issue of wrongly convicted is centre stage. You are jumping all over the place in this argument placing yourself in hopeless knots. You statement that you could not accept wrongful executions MUST mean you oppose the DP since it is impossible to guarantee only the guilty are executed. No model of justice can categorically exclude error and the evidence is plentiful to suggest that the error-rate is quite notable. This is the DP's biggest flaw: that you cannot redress the wrongful execution like you can a wrongful conviction and jail term. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 28th, 2013 at 6:04pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:57pm:
"Changes to the Singapore Criminal Justice Process: "There are 2 widely-accepted models of criminal justice process, namely due-process and crime-control. "The due-process model embodies the ideology that it is better to let 10 guilty men go free than convict an innocent one. The presumption of innocence is therefore a central tenet of this model. "On the contrary, the main feature of the crime-control model concentrated on vindicating victims rights rather than on protecting the defendants rights. "The Criminal Procedure Code (Amendment) Act 1976 introduced elements of the crime-control model into Singapore. Prior to 1976, the criminal justice system pre-dominantly resembled the due-process model." Singapore Law Review http://www.singaporelawreview.org/2008/04/changes-to-the-singapore-criminal-justice-process-a-vignette/ |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 6:05pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 5:57pm:
There are multiple books on the failings of the Singapore justice system including its shortcuts, corruption and frankly, lack of genuine interest in genuine justice. It is interested in law and order and mainly order. Their legal system is very effective at maintaining order but the price is one of wrongful convictions, unjust executions and a legal system that penalises just about anything and everything. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 6:08pm
If there are any Star Trek fans, think of the Cardassian Model of Justice.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 6:25pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 6:05pm:
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 6:27pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 6:03pm:
Ok. Show me one wrongly executed person in Australia, just one. Surely you have one example? If as you state the DP has errors then just show one example where a person was wrongly executed when the DP was in place in Australia. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 6:50pm
Hang the bastard - hang em high.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:12pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 6:27pm:
Ronald Ryan - last man executed and very dubious Colin Ross http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2008/05/27/1211653994898.html and there are others but it is not the point. as you said yourself you have zero tolerance for excuting the innocent so there needs to only be a risk of that to make it wrong. Yet you support it. Why |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:13pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 6:25pm:
for goodness sake, are you THAT obtuse??? the Singapore legal system proudly proclaims that it has abandoned the due process model. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:15pm
Sometimes due process can be a hindrance to justice in my opinion.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:20pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:15pm:
a hindrance to revenge yes. But justice is by definition JUST and must therefore be open and fair to all which must therefore be a process. Summary justice is not justice. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Lionel Edriess on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:21pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 6:27pm:
@ ian: How about you illustrate the differences between those few who (may) have been incorrectly sentenced/executed and those numerous convicted offenders who have been released on parole and have gone on to re-offend? Prior to DNA testing is a bit difficult, so we'll stick with the DNA convictions, eh? The family of Jill Meagher are awaiting with bated breath. How about the death penalty when there are no questions to be answered - guilty as charged and incontrovertible evidence? What happens, these days, if you own a dog that bites? Funny, innit, these days the gangs'll take a risk about poppin' a cap in yo' ass - but the Law must be seen to be above reproach. And ain't it! ;D |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:26pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:20pm:
Your religion and mine differ. If you are hit, you say here is my other cheek. In mine we are hit, we hit him back. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:30pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:26pm:
and look at the frigging mess THAT has gotten you and your country into!!!! Im not pro-palestinian at all. Quite the contrary in fact. But you could learn a little from the Jesus you reject about getting on with people better. Revenge is a dish best served cold and leads to two graves (mixed quotes I know). and no, I dont want to discuss the 'israel problem'. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:32pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:12pm:
So you had to go back 80 years before the advent of current forensic technology and DNA to find someone who may have been hanged in error. No one is suggesting we use methods in use 80 years ago to try and prove peoples guilt in a court of law. Im suggesting that we use methods available today. If a persons guilt cannot be corroborated by DNA and forensic evidence then I would be in favour of not executing the death sentence until it can be. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:34pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:13pm:
No it doesnt, that was an opinion piece posted by Greggary. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:36pm
Leaving an act un avenged is no justice.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:38pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:32pm:
there has been no DP in australia for 45 years so it was always going to be hard to find a recent example, is it not? And do you think that current forensics and DNA precludes error and corruption? Clearly you forget the case of only a few years ago when DNA evidence was banned from Victorian courts after someone was convicted on DNA evidence that was tainted. We've also had DNA that has shown the wrong person to be the offender because the process was wrong. CSI is not real life. People get it wrong - often. People re lazy and corrupt - often. You simply CANNOT preculed error from criminal judgments. thatr is an impossibility for anyone but God in Whose place you currently presume to judge. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:40pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:34pm:
the Singapore Law Review is an OPINION PIECE????? http://www.singaporelawreview.org/2008/04/changes-to-the-singapore-criminal-just... |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:42pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:36pm:
well that pretty much explains 2000 years of Jewish dispersion and misery. No wonder your lot rejected the Messiah. That whole 'forgiveness' thing is as foreign to you as pork chops. Forgiveness and compassion are what CHANGES things. REVENGE is why arabs and jews are fighting over issues dating back millennia. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:45pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 6:27pm:
Now you are becoming seriously silly, ian. No doubt many innocent people have been executed. We will never know. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:45pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:40pm:
*sigh* yes, the Singapore law review publishes opinion pieces. It is not an official government document. The Singapore Law Review welcomes contributions on all aspects of law from both students and academics for consideration to be published in the next issue of the Law Review. - See more at: http://www.singaporelawreview.org/the-singapore-law-review-journal/submissions/#sthash.jhNM2kDJ.dpuf |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:48pm
The death penalty for me is an important act of vengeance.
If you take the life of someone, then your life will be taken. See longweekend the Munich Olympics massacre. Vengeance is sought. So we can not bring them to trial but we find them, in the night, thousands of Kim's away, we find them and we kill them. So the death penalty is not just the justice but it is demanded to right a wrong. I will leave your forgiveness for your churches. We deal in a more tough world. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:49pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:45pm:
Now you are just being a tool. it is a peer-reviewed journal of the law society. This stupidity of yours comment renders the rest of your opinions equally pointless. It is interesting and rather ironic that in a thread where you believe justice can be perfect that you dont seem to have any standard of evidence that is achievable. ANd I am equally sure you dont understand that. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:51pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:45pm:
The point is that the death penalty was dropped in Australia before the advent of modern forensic science and DNA testing And the doubts which have been laid at these decades old executions are being voiced becuse modern DNA testing is casting the doubt. These people would never be convicted and executed under our current system. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:51pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:48pm:
and their sons grow up to kill your sons to avenge their fathers death and on it goes. And that is why arabs are today killing jews literally because of murders that took place millenia ago. Your system is really working well for you, isnt it? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:53pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:51pm:
you have to be a teenager. no one else could be so naively confident that the modern forensic science can deliver error-free judgements. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:54pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:49pm:
Like I said, you poorly understand what you are talking about. And you continue to display it. You will not find where the Singapore government states their legal system does not allow due process. That is what was claimed and you have yet to show otherwise. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:55pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:53pm:
I never claimed it did. Do you have some sort of comprehension problem? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:58pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:55pm:
it is derived using a process I call logic - you should try it. Let me sum it up for you: You declare that there must be zero tolerance for error in executions. You are in favour of the DP ergo you must believe in a error-free judicial system care to find the flaw in the above logical progression? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:59pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:54pm:
Well if you are no prepare to accept the word of the Singapore Law society then it probably means there is no standard of evidence you would ever accept. It makes debating with you rather pointless. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 8:00pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:58pm:
Longy, Are you saying that Julian Knight, Martin Bryant & Adrian Bayley shouldn't have got the noose? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 8:02pm Bobby. wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 8:00pm:
yes. its called MORALITY. You should investigate it. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 28th, 2013 at 8:04pm
Bobby has the same view with me on death penalty
We have spoke before of it. Correct bobby? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 28th, 2013 at 8:05pm
You don't have time for morality when you pick up your dead women and children.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 8:11pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:58pm:
yes, your conclusion. I didnt state the judicial system could be error free. That would be impossible. However, as far as reinstating the death penalty we can put in place a system which would ensure no one is executed in error. See the difference? That doesnt mean the whole judicial system has to be error free. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 8:16pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 8:05pm:
which is why you will always be picking them up. Someone has to break the cycle of revenge or else... you get what you have now. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 8:18pm ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 8:11pm:
a 4 yo could pick the logical fallacy in that. to have error-free executions you have to have error-free due process in DP cases. That is impossible and you in fact stated such. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jun 28th, 2013 at 8:32pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 8:04pm:
Correct Avram, If you knew what: Julian Knight, Martin Bryant & Adrian Bayley did then you would agree with me too. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 28th, 2013 at 8:36pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 8:18pm:
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:07am ian wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 8:36pm:
you are a moron who cannot even formulate a logical and consistent argument. you should be executed for it. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 10:03am longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:07am:
Took you a while to get there. He is totally irrational. Can't form a logical and consistent argument. Does not accept any form of evidence, from anywhere, unless it supports his opinion. Doesn't know when he's been beaten. After reading the last two pages of this thread, I won't be wasting my time replying directly to him anymore. I've never seen anyone quite like him on this forum before. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:01am longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:07am:
surrender acknowledged |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:07am Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 7:48pm:
In less civilised societies, yes. Australia, thankfully, is much more civilised than places like Texas. We'll never see premeditated state-sanctioned killing used as punishment in this country again, under any government. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:44am greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 10:03am:
oh I think SOB could top him. lastnail is also one for whom there is no standard of evidence possible to dispute his own personal opinion. They are the real losers; the ones who have no logical centre. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:47am greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:07am:
I think you are right. Every now and then there is a case - like Jill Meagher - which brings the sentiment to the fore but the Australian people do not have the stomach for killing people. We have seen too many miscarriages of justice to accept that the DP could be foolproof and too many other societies where the DP simply does not work beyond satisfying the bloodlust of the lower classes. it is another reason why we live in one of the best and enlightened countries on the planet. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:48am
Despite having a much higher rate of deaths and injuuries form firearms, the US has a much lower rate of violent crime overall than Australia. wonder how that can be.
http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Australia/United-States/Crime Crime stats: Australia vs United States Australian Crime stats American Crime stats Assault victims 2.4% 1.2% Ranked 4th. 100% more than United States Ranked 11th. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:49am ian wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:01am:
only a true dimwit makes such a comment. and you certainly fit the bill. Are you SOB's bastard child? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:50am longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:47am:
Absolutely. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:50am ian wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:48am:
LOL this from a drongo who doesnt accept the word of the Singapore Law society but quotes this site which is well known for its error-filled bogus statistics. Higher crime rate in australia in USA?? only a retard like you could beleive that. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:52am longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:47am:
we are becoming a country of limp wqrists and soft cocks. Your posts illustrate that point perfectly. You would rather see a murderer or rapist walk free than compromise his or her civil rights. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:53am longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:50am:
I only used that site for convenience, I know the stats on this because I have previously studied it. Use any source you like. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:54am longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:49am:
When people resort to personal attacks rather than supply the evidence asked for, then I know I have won. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:56am Bobby. wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 8:32pm:
bump |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 12:02pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:47am:
Yes, it was good to see Australia handle that case with some maturity. That guy is a true monster, and he certainly doesn't deserve to be granted parole. I hope I never hear his name again. However, we don't need to perpetuate the vicious cycle of violence. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 12:08pm
because holding signs up and having a protest march will defintiely stop the sociopathic predators amongst us and they will mend their ways. The utter and complete naivete of some people in our society is absolutley mind boggling.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 12:20pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:50am:
A "drongo" who doesn't accept the word of anyone, if it goes against his personal opinion. Facts that contradict his own twisted views have no place in ian's life. He's a worry. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 12:36pm ian wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 12:08pm:
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 12:39pm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7Q9ZEdOLSE |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 12:44pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 8:16pm:
That's exactly right. Civilised societies don't perpetuate violence: they look for alternatives. Someone has to have the balls to stop the killing. The death penalty is the easy option: a quick "solution" for people who don't have the guts or intelligence to consider other options. Thankfully, we Australians don't live in such a weak society. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 1:27pm ian wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:53am:
no actually the onus is on YOU to provide stats that show the crime rate in USA lower than australia. but remember, we want gold-plated statistics as per YOUR standard. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 1:38pm ian wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 12:08pm:
who else can smell the hint of BLOODLUST? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 2:14pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 1:38pm:
Oh, there's more than a hint. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 29th, 2013 at 2:26pm
"It is better ten guilty men go free, than one innocent man suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 2:49pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 1:27pm:
I didnt state the crime rate was lower, I stated the violent crime rate was lower. and I did not demand "gold plated " sources as you suggest, merely credible sources other than an opinion post. Not only that, neither you or the other numpty has yet to supply any statistics at all. So your demand is a strawman, I have supplied verifiable statistics, you have not. Now either show they are wrong or argue the point some other way, but Im not going to continue to play semantics. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 3:01pm Bobby. wrote on Jun 28th, 2013 at 8:00pm:
Nobody should get the noose. Introducing specific names and cases to the debate is irrelevant. Civilised societies do not use premeditated state-sanctioned killing as a form of punishment, no matter how horrendous the crime. Nobody is excusing the actions of criminals: we're merely condemning the perpetuation of the vicious cycle of violence. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 3:01pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 2:26pm:
William blackstone obviously was never close to a victim who was anally and vaginally raped with a blunt instrument a number of times before being tortured slowly and finally dying horrendously. Civilised societies protect the innocent, not the predators. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 3:11pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 1:27pm:
You'll never get him to understand that logic. While you are 100% correct, the onus is indeed on ian, he will never admit to it. He doesn't actually understand why the person presenting the premise needs to provide the supporting evidence. In ian's world everything he says is true and it's up to everyone else to provide evidence to the contrary. Everything everyone else says, however, is merely "opinion" and no amount of evidence will convince him otherwise. He really is quite a strange and rare individual. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Socrates on Jun 29th, 2013 at 3:27pm
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT FOR:
Murder of Law Enforcement Officers, including Corrections/Prison Officers Premeditated murder Murder of Children Sexual assault and abuse of children Now for all you smug twats (peccahead, skippy and Jackass) who are going to respond with explain, either read it again, or go back to school. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 3:29pm Socrates wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 3:27pm:
Civilised societies do not use premeditated state-sanctioned killing as a form of punishment, no matter how horrendous the crime. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 3:37pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 2:26pm:
It is the principle we base our system on which is why the burden of proof is in the prosecution while in Singapore the burden of proof is on the defendant. You have to prove your innocence. It is a little more difficult to do and is why they have a high rate of miscarriages of justice. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 3:40pm ian wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 3:01pm:
yep, there's that bloodlust again! You might think differently if you were charged with murder and were innocent. You might take a great deal of comfort in the idea that the prosecution has to prove its case with no reasonable doubt. And again, ALL you are after is vengeance - not justice. Justice upholds the rights of all - including the accused. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 3:42pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 3:11pm:
if only it were true. Unfortunately, such fools are not rare at all. They demand a standard of evidence that is unattainable from others while quoting nothing more than opinion or sources that make wiki look unimpeachable and then wonder why we laugh at them. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 3:45pm Socrates wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 3:27pm:
question: why is the murder of a child a special category? Why does the 'heat of the moment' murder of a child rate higher than other such murders? And 'sexual aasault and abuse' is a very poor definition since it has a range of offence from the trivial to the monstrous. And that is why we dont have mandatory sentences - so judges can sentence on the basis of the facts of the case rather than the whims of politicians seeking to look tough on crime to get re-elected. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Herbert on Jun 29th, 2013 at 3:45pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 2:26pm:
Very true. But then nobody reported what he said next... "It is better eleven guilty men get the rope, than fear of convicting one innocent man sets them free" - English jurist William Blackstone. Very wise man. 8-) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 3:55pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 3:45pm:
not reported because he didnt say it. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 3:58pm
Just for Ian who apparently beleives modern forensics can give ua a safe DP
http://listverse.com/2013/04/09/10-innocent-people-sentenced-to-death/ |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 3:59pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 3:55pm:
Surely advocates of the death penalty wouldn't tell lies in order to support their bloodlust-fueled "arguments". Surely not. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 29th, 2013 at 4:01pm
The death penalty is a key part of a society where you must enact vengeance.
Never allow a act to go unpunished. Never allow a act to not bring vengeance to the people wronged. If you kill someone then you in turn must be killed. It is the act of a just society who looks after its people. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 4:04pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 4:01pm:
Actually, it's the act of an extremely barbaric society fueled by vengeance instead of the desire for justice. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 4:06pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 4:01pm:
it is the act of people who beg others to come and attack them. There is a bible verse (Old Testament) that directly opposes you position which says. "If all our iniquities were marked (punished), who would stand?" Forgiveness is the key to life and was the fundamental message of Jesus. No wonder you didnt recognise the Messiah. You are too busy wreaking revenge on everyone |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 4:07pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 4:01pm:
that could ONLY possibly be true if the DP were faultless. do you suggest otherwise? and if not then what error rate aer you willing to accept? 5% of executions being wrong? 10%? just what is your acceptable error rate? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Big Dave on Jun 29th, 2013 at 4:10pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 4:04pm:
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 4:13pm Big Dave wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 4:10pm:
who? Ive not heard any international mocking at all. Given that we are the most desirable location on the planet that sounds like... made-up fantasy. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 29th, 2013 at 4:38pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 4:07pm:
The system is not faultless. Our targeted removals have sometimes got the wrong person because the information was incorrect. But there is a acceptable error rate. You cannot quantify it but more take it fr each case. Of course there will be errors and this is not a good thing. But the vengeance of the people must be brought. You and I longweekend come from very different worlds. But my beliefs are the same everywhere. "Understand this one thing. These people who committed this atrocity will hear from us. Not because we want it but because it is demanded as just vengeance. Their time on this earth has now come to an end and they will now have to run every day of their lives from us." Golda Meir, Operation Wrath of God, 1972. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 5:12pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 4:38pm:
remind me agian of this when someone kills someone from your family by accident. I am sure you will just say it is the price of vengeance. Which of course it is. You will live with death and violence all the days of your life and mainly because you beg for it. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 29th, 2013 at 5:16pm
You live and die by the sword.
You look at things different to me because of our different worlds. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 5:24pm
They will never understand Avram, there are 3 types of people in this world. sheep, wolves and sheepdogs. They are the sheep who do not understand it is us who keep them from the wolves.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 5:33pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 5:16pm:
perhaps your world could be a little different if you took slightly less pleasure in killing and even *shock horror* an interest in the fates of innocents. Your support of the death penalty is clear but what I object to is your almost complete lack of interest in the deaths of innocents. You dont even have the decency to be upset about it. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 5:35pm
I'm sorry, but you cannot tell me this piece of filth deserves to live?
http://au.news.yahoo.com/queensland/a/-/latest/17799539/aussie-gets-40-years-jail-for-abusing-baby/ they bought a baby for the purposes of abusing it and then handed it from one pedo to another and did this for several years ..... if I could I would shoot the miserable son of a b1tch myself, although I would be careful to avoid anything fatal until he had suffered for at least a few days. Maybe just shoot him in each joint and then put him in a pit of hungry rats .... |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 29th, 2013 at 5:43pm
I agree with John Smith here .
I would take this to the Sinai and leave in the sun all day |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:07pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 5:35pm:
well John, we agree on something. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:09pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 5:35pm:
as I said before... supporters of the DP are just after blood lust. You are just TOO PREDICTABLE!!! |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:09pm
Lets see someone defend this pedophiles right to live amongst humans.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:11pm
And we have a winner, longweekend doesnt condemn the vicious pedophile but instead condemns the person who very appropriately states that the scumbag should forfeit his life! Unbeleivable!
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:12pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:09pm:
I don't care if it is predictable ... the piece of sh1t still doesn't deserve to live. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:14pm ian wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:11pm:
welcome to long's world ...... I'd like to know if, in longy's world, once this or any other pedo has served his sentence, would longy be OK for him to move next door to his grandkids .... after all, they've done their time. That's the civilised thing to do isn't it.? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:16pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 3:45pm:
Herbert, Blackstone lived in the 18th century. If no-one reported this supposed remark, how do you know he said it? If you cannot produce evidence of this alleged statement, then are we not entitled to consider you a person who makes things up when it suits him? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:23pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 5:16pm:
Avram, you describe a society whose life system is based on vengeance. You face Arab nations whose attitude is the same. It is no wonder you are in a constant state of war. How could it be otherwise? How do you think peace can ever be achieved? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:45pm ian wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:09pm:
It is a question of society's right to kill him. I believe we have no such right. In the case referred to, a man aged 42 has been sentenced to 40 years. If he serves his full sentence he may never be released. Every day of the rest of his life, he can think about what he did and why he is behind bars. Isn't that a better punishment than putting him to death? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:52pm ian wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:09pm:
It is not a question of his right to live, but of society's right to kill him. I believe we have no such right. At 42, he has been sentenced to 40 years. The odds are he will never be released. For 40 years, he will, every day, think about what he did. Isn't that a better punishment than killing him? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:53pm ian wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:11pm:
bloodlust, bloodlust. it is all you DP-proponents ever do. And most of you dont even TRY and put up a coherent argument. You just demand BLOOD and pretend that that solves the problem. It isnt even a deterrent! |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:55pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:23pm:
It is achieved by the first person to stop shooting back. The whole reason ME peace Plans ALWAYS fail is because there are too many retards on both sides ready to kill someone on the basis of an offence from hundreds if not thousands of years before. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:55pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:45pm:
meanwhile every day for the next 80 yrs, this kid gets to re-live everything they did to him. Nope, I still think it would be better for all concerned if they killed the bloke ... at least then the kid would know there is one monster under his bed who is never coming back. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:56pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:45pm:
but there is no BLOOD!!! how can they cheer? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:56pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:53pm:
If a death sentence isn't a deterrent , what makes you think anything else will work to deter them? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:59pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:55pm:
thats already true. again., all you want - all you DP-supporters ever want - is DEATH and BLOOD. you cant even make a conherent cogent argument for the DP beyond bloodlust |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:02pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:55pm:
Is that really the best you can come up with? That lame piece of crap? Are you so desperate to see someone die? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Big Dave on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:03pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 4:13pm:
They are laughing at our laws in SW Sydney. They are burning each others factories down and shooting one another. It's you that lives in the fantasy world. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:04pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:59pm:
that's exactly right, in these cases, I want blood .... I'll leave the arguments for you. By the way, I notice you avoided answering my question . If after he, or any other pedo, has served his sentence & moves in next door to your grandkids would you object? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Socrates on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:04pm
Well Jack, I'm going to have to be civil to you because I agree with you 100% on this particular matter.
;) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:04pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:55pm:
Sad, but so true. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:06pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:02pm:
not someone, just a pieces of living sh1t like this bloke. What makes you think I need to justify my position to you? I'm not trying to convince you, just don't try and convince me that pandering to these pedo's is the answer. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:07pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 6:56pm:
ah... the penny drops. there are many criminals for whom there is no deterrence possible. Sociopaths for example. Pedophiles (real ones, not the ones often called thus) are the same. So are the pathologically violent and other classes of criminal. they simply cannot be deterred. You can only protect as best you can. The problem is that YOU see the DP as deterrence but you are not likely to commit any of these crimes. Dont imagien that everyone else thinks the same way. There are some get sick people out there, some of whom dont expect to live toa ripe old age so the DP holds no terror or deterence |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:09pm Big Dave wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:03pm:
the gang wars, mass murder and infernos didnt make the media. Is thatr a conspiracy of silence or is it more likely that what you are saying is just BS? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:11pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:04pm:
its moot because he isnt getting out. And I dont have the problem of a guilty conscience of executing criminals who may not all be actually guilty. Thats a problem you refuse to address. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:13pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:07pm:
WRONG WRONG WRONG.... I've never said I see the death penalty as a deterrent, I just pointed out that if it doesn't deter someone nothing will ..... I see the death penalty as a solution, with a little comeuppance thrown in for good measure. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:15pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:13pm:
a solution to what exactly? you already admit is is not a deterrent (and in fact has been show to slightly INCREASE violent crime) so what is the problem that it is a solution to. The murdered victim is not coming back from the dead and the families are not getting anythign either so again, to what problem is this a solution to beyond appealing to the bloodlust of a few? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:16pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:11pm:
ahh, I notice now you keep your answer limited to him, whereas before you were worried about the innocent ... Ok, would you have been happy if Dennis Ferguson or any other pedo , upon his release from prison (and before dying), moved in next door to your grandkids? As for the guilty conscience bullsh1t, I doubt it would bother me too much. As long as my intentions are honest, I accept that I cannot control everything and understand that mistakes are made and I am prepared to live with that. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:17pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:15pm:
to that piece of sh1t |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:17pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:06pm:
If you are not prepared to take a position and justify it, what the hell are you doing here? Take up lacrosse instead. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Socrates on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:18pm
Lack of a serious deterrent condones these maggots to enact their terrible crimes with impunity. Capital Punishment is a deterrent.
I will not explain myself to smacking idiots who have no experience with the results of these type of murderous acts which leave a trail of victims which are left agonising over the result of this depraved, psychopathic scum who have no conscience whatsoever. Rehabilitate them with a lethal injection. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:18pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:15pm:
I have not admitted that .... comprehension not your forte is it? It will deter some, others it won't .... either way it's not a factor |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:19pm
Death penalty is 100% proof from re offending.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:20pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:16pm:
ah the irony! YOU are prepared to 'live with it'. Pity the poor innocent bugger executed. As predicted, this is all about YOU and your bloodlust and has zero to do with justice of any kind. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:20pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:17pm:
voicing my opinion .... do not kid yourself as to your importance ... I have never, nor ever will be, required to justify to you why I have any opinion on anything. If I choose to give my reasons about something I will, If I don't tough ... if you don't like it I suggest you take up lacrosse |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:21pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:17pm:
its hard to justify a position of wanting people killed to assuage your own anger and powerlessness. Even worse when you barely give lip-service to the notion of innocence vs guilt. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:22pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:20pm:
of course it's about justice .... but you asked me to address my supposed guilty conscience ... now you want me to tell you about the victims conscience? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:23pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:20pm:
which is part of why nobody listens to you or takes you seriously. if you want to be taken seriously anywhere you will actually have reasons - even poor ones - for the positions you hold. Otherwise you will be viewed as a bogon for whom we have contempt and pity. BTW it is your type that ends up executed unfairly because you are too stupid to be able to defend yourself properly. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:24pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:20pm:
why do you avoid answering the question put to you? Are you afraid? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Big Dave on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:24pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:09pm:
Most of the truth isn't being reported by the media. People come in from other parts of the world where the law is a bullet and they soon realise that this place is too soft. To get a jail term you almost have to murder somebody. Too many do-gooders running the judicial system. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:25pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:22pm:
wow... you really dont understand arguments very well do you? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:25pm Socrates wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:18pm:
Stop the name calling and the obscenities and find me proof of that statement. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:26pm Big Dave wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:24pm:
aha... another bogan fool to simply scroll past without reading. ring up talk-back radio instead. they are more your speed.. dumber than snot. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:27pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:23pm:
you seriously have problems ..... are you on medication? If you didn't take what I said seriously why do you try to argue what I say ... why don't you try sticking to topic instead of trying to divert attention away from your stupidity? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:27pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:25pm:
multiple researchers have concluded that the DP is at best no deterrent at all and in a disturbing number of states/countries has a correlation with a slight increase in violent crime. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:29pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:25pm:
or you don't maybe understand how to present a question properly? ... you asked about my conscience and then complain that it is about me and not the victim ... you're not the sharpest tool in the shed are you? Not to worry, despite that, you still are a tool |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:30pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:27pm:
DO YOU EVEN UNDERSTAND TO CONCEPT OF DEFENDING YOUR POSITION? Do you have any opinions that have emanated from a thinking process or are you operating on instinct alone? if you wont try and justify your position it suggests you have never even thought about why you believe it. Either tha or you are too cowardly to try. Or conversely, to inept to succeed. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:30pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:27pm:
care to prove that somehow? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:32pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:29pm:
well let me clarify it with the simple question that I can almost guarantee you wont answer directly. What rate of error in executing the guilty are you prepared to accept and still support the death penalty? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:32pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:30pm:
I have no need to defend anything .... now answer the question, Would you be happy if a pedo, after serving his time , moved next door to your grandkids ... it's a very simple question, what are you scared off? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Big Dave on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:32pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:26pm:
Walk down George st or through the cross and a friday night you stupid do-gooder and witness first hand your law abiding nirvana. You stupid old douche. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:33pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:32pm:
as many as it takes. you want me to present a number? that's not how it works dopey .... as long as the system does everything it can to try and keep the number to a minimum, that is all anyone can ask |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:34pm
Vengeance is justice.
They are the same coin. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:34pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:30pm:
would it change anything if I did show you the research? would you even accept it anyhow? Or would you - as most expect - just continue on as if it hasbt been presented? You are not concerned with the effectiveness or deterrence of the DP. you just want some people to die. When you want to enter the debate as a serious debater on the opposite side with some actual thought-out opinions then I will respond with teh facts you claim to want to see. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:35pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:32pm:
its a deflection. the topic is DP. we can move to that topic once this one has been put to death. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:36pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:34pm:
how did I know you would try to avoid posting any evidence? I've gotta go and put the kids to bed, I will look for your answer to my question upon my return ... man up and answer the question you chicken sh1t |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:36pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:33pm:
so if 10 people a year are executed and 3 are innocent you are okay with that? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:37pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:34pm:
i dont think you could get a single philosopher, statesman or thinking person to agree with that. I am however poretty sure you could get a mess of criminals and terrorist who would. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:39pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:34pm:
Thank you, Avram. To those who claim deterrence ponder this: Capital punishment has been used for centuries, yet the crimes which attracted it continued to be committed. Where's the deterrent? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:43pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:36pm:
its easy to prove. THERE just isnt any point. You wouldnt believe it. If you were Ian you'd just say it was a blog or opinion etc. Id show peter or gregory because while I disagree with them most time, they do have the ability to think. You however dont. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:44pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:39pm:
if the DP worked i ending murder I still wouldnt support it, but at least there would be a valid argument. and that is in a nutshell the problem with the DP. It doesnt deter crime, it doesnt prevent crime and it doesnt resolve the fallout from crime. So what exactly are its merits again? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:45pm
I claim it as deterrence too.
How many acts of violence have you seen committed by a dead person re offending? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:47pm
I also claim as vengeance for justice too.
I cannot pick Aussie history I apologise but for my country how about Operation Wrath of God? 11 murderers removed by the state for killing innocent people and those 11 people never murdered anyone again. Vengeance, deterrent and justice! |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:48pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:33pm:
John, you seem very keen to personalise this debate. So tell me this: How would you feel if your son was executed for a crime you knew he didn't commit? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:49pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:45pm:
No Avram. Deterrence means deterring other people. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:51pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:45pm:
stupid, stupid argument. Although I guess it does explain carpet bombing of civilians. go away avram. you discredit your country, your religion and frankly, your species. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:52pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:48pm:
pretty certain you wont get a reply to this. well not one on topic anyhow. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:53pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:43pm:
Thank you, longy. Same back at ya. ;) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:54pm
So it prevents re offending 100% and it prevents others from doing the same when you know the result is death.
You must respond fire with fire. If you don't. You lose and you do your people no justice. I am sorry this is how it must be. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:58pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:54pm:
hows that deterrence thing working out for you in Israel? suicide bombers stopped have they? you are an idiot. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:58pm
How is targeted removals or death penalty in justice linked to carpet civilians bombing.
I don't think anyone supports this. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:01pm
I think its quite telling in this debate that the DP opponents are getting very emotional, emotional enough to sling insults at others and emotional enough to defend the right to live of the pedophile mentioned but not emotional enough to condemn the pedophile. Not 1 so far has condemned this subhuman peice of poo for his actions but they support his right to live, not only his right to live but his right to eventually get parole and committ his offences all over again.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:05pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:44pm:
Lol, what a completely naive and ludicrous statement. Of course it prevents reoffending, how can a dead person reoffend? If Jill Meaghers killer was given the death penalty for the violent rapes he admitted to doing then she would be alive today, how can this be an argument. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:05pm
As far as having a pedophile living next door, it is a sad reflection on society that a parent has to treat any stranger, and not necessarily only strangers, as potential pedophiles.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:05pm ian wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:01pm:
I think you confuse 'staying on topic' with other things. The topic is the DP and desperate people like yourself always abandon the argument on principle for the argument of example. The debate is not about one pedo. it is about the DP. If you want to get responses to your posts then you might try debating the topic at hand. Deflecting to side emotive issues might work with some people but you may have noticed (or not) that your opponents here are older, more experienced and clearly more educated and informed than most. We have our positions based on facts, experience and morality. We did not come to these positions lightly or on the basis of Ivan Milat or whoever. In short, WE THINK. You should try the same. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:07pm ian wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:05pm:
well what about first offenders??? how does it work there?? Meagher was the result of judicial failure. But that failure is not resolved by executing all convicted rapists because the next such predator will be a first-timer. then what do you do? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:08pm
Suicide bombers is a completely different discussion.
And no we will NEVER step backwards in our fight with the Arab Terrorists. But you confuse subjects here. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:09pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:05pm:
oddly enough the present obsesion with pedophiles has neither reduced nor increased the rate of sexual offending towards children. again, it is one of those offences which is part of human nature in general and not just part of the sociopath or predatory subgroups. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Big Dave on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:11pm
Longweekend need to take a bex and have a nap. The capital punishment topic is obviously too much for his emotional state to handle.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:11pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:05pm:
You are the one doing the deflecting, hurl a few more insults. Doesnt worry me. And you do not post based on experience, I know that much. I can tell you that no one who works with these types of subhumans is a DP opponent, no one. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:12pm
Long weekend you yourself have not stayed on topic.
You reference suicide bombers and civilian carpet bombing on a death penalty subject. I may be much younger than you but I have much life experience already. I know the subject. I have strong views of justice and vengeance sought. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:13pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:07pm:
Judicial failure? Youre kidding, right? Thats the way the system works, get out in the real world, these sacks of human garbage almost inevitably get out to reoffend again. And thats thanks to people like yourself who defend them. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:16pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:09pm:
What are you babbling about now? You really have no idea at all what you are talking about, pedophilia can not be cured, there has never, ever been one rehabilitated. You appear to be attempting to noramilse this behaviour now. A normal human response is to have empathy for children, not cause them harm. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:17pm ian wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:13pm:
and here we have it folks! Not an argument based on logic or on positive outcomes, but an argument based on hate and frustration tinged with bloodlust. If it were not so, you would be on a thread demanding longer sentences or life without parole or something along those lines. But no, you are here demanding death therefore implying a completely different agenda - revenge and blood. Show me where I am wrong. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:19pm
Id like your rationale in stating pedophilia is part of normal human behaviour thanks.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:21pm Socrates wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:18pm:
Incorrect. "A report that examined the 74 studies into the the death penalty over a 51-year period found no evidence that executing offenders had a deterrent effect on crime." http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/is-capital-punishment-a-deterrent/2005/12/01/1133311147494.html "Some studies even found the opposite - a 'brutalisation effect' - that when the state sanctions violence, levels of violence increase." |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:21pm ian wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:16pm:
now you are treading into my are of expertise (Psychology). Firstly there is an enormous difference between pedophilia and sex offending. The former isnt even an offence. It is a mental illness. the vast majoritt of sexual abuse of children is not done by pedophiles but by Joe and Joan Average. it occures in every society, culture, religion, social and educational strata and is unfortunately a part of the human condition. I am not trying to normalise it. I however do have an actual understanding of areas of abnormal psychology having actually published a book on one area of it. You might try and work on your comprehension. Just because someone doesnt wish to execute a particular criminal does not mean he is sympathising. That is the view you'd expect from a bogan with a grad 5 education and married to his cousin. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:22pm ian wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:19pm:
which isnt what I said of course. But you arent that good with understanding the detail of opposing opinions. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:24pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:21pm:
thanks for that. I forget what the effect was called. When you devalue anyone's life, you devalue all life. When you start to kill it is hard to know when to stop and draw the line. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:26pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:30pm:
Too easy. "A report that examined the 74 studies into the the death penalty over a 51-year period found no evidence that executing offenders had a deterrent effect on crime." "Some studies even found the opposite - a 'brutalisation effect' - that when the state sanctions violence, levels of violence increase." http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/is-capital-punishment-a-deterrent/2005/12/01/1133311147494.html |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Big Dave on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:27pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:21pm:
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:29pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:22pm:
Well you stated they werent predators or sociopaths, did you not? So what are they? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:31pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:21pm:
Nah mate, youre full of it. Even a complete beginner knows pedophiles are predators. You have no understanding. You are trying to normalise it. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:33pm
ian, isn't calling someone a "subhuman piece of poo" a tad emotional?
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Big Dave on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:34pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:24pm:
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:35pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:33pm:
Thats what they are, you think these people are human? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:36pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:54pm:
No, it doesn't. Where are you getting your (mis)information from? "A report that examined the 74 studies into the the death penalty over a 51-year period found no evidence that executing offenders had a deterrent effect on crime." "The October 2004 report for the NSW Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research, entitled The deterrent effect of capital punishment: A review of the research evidence, found no conclusive evidence that the death penalty had reduced crime." "One clear message comes from reading the vast literature that exists on this topic, and that is, there is no consistent evidence that capital punishment deters crime ... " "Some studies even found the opposite - a 'brutalisation effect' - that when the state sanctions violence, levels of violence increase." "The majority of the studies the pair examined found capital punishment 'did not deter the commission of homicide.' " http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/is-capital-punishment-a-deterrent/2005/12/01/1133311147494.html |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:39pm
Death penalty provides vengeance and justice.
If it prevents more deaths from deterrence this is a bonus. For me it is about the response. Never let a act go unavenged. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:42pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:39pm:
It doesn't. You were wrong. Your bloodlust fueled vengeance is not only completely disgusting, it is also preventing you from thinking clearly or presenting anything that resembles a rational argument. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:45pm
Longweekend states pedophilia is his area of expertise , then goes on to state that most child abusers are not pedophiles. Heres the truth of the matter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia However, the Mayo Clinic reports perpetrators who meet the diagnostic criteria for pedophilia offend more often than non-pedophile perpetrators, and with a greater number of victims. They state that approximately 95% of child sexual abuse incidents are committed by the 88% of child molestation offenders who meet the diagnostic criteria for pedophilia.[13] A behavioral analysis report by the FBI states that a "high percentage of acquaintance child molesters are preferential sex offenders who have a true sexual preference for [prepubescent] children (i.e., true pedophiles)".[11] |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Socrates on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:46pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:25pm:
You are a smug arsehole, and I don't have to find you bugger-all. Use that peanut you call a brain and do your own research. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:48pm
Vengeance is not disgusting but it is natural justice of correcting a wrong.
If people murder then they no longer deserve to live. In my country we have for a long time adopted policy of every act of violence receives a response. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:49pm Socrates wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:46pm:
Here's some research for you: "A report that examined the 74 studies into the the death penalty over a 51-year period found no evidence that executing offenders had a deterrent effect on crime." "The October 2004 report for the NSW Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research, entitled The deterrent effect of capital punishment: A review of the research evidence, found no conclusive evidence that the death penalty had reduced crime." "One clear message comes from reading the vast literature that exists on this topic, and that is, there is no consistent evidence that capital punishment deters crime ... " "Some studies even found the opposite - a 'brutalisation effect' - that when the state sanctions violence, levels of violence increase." "The majority of the studies the pair examined found capital punishment 'did not deter the commission of homicide.' " http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/is-capital-punishment-a-deterrent/2005/12/01/1133311147494.html |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:50pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:48pm:
And how's that working out for you sunshine? How is your shithole of a country doing these days? Hmmm? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:50pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:48pm:
terrible, but I'm not talking about executing the innocent, I'm talking about executing this piece of filth ... why do you struggle to stick to topic? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Big Dave on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:51pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:42pm:
I wonder how you'd feel if your daughter was raped and murdered. I bet you'd change your tune. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:52pm
How is my country doing?
It is still there. If we did not follow this policy it would not be. Like I said previous you have luxuries of being soft that we do not. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:53pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:36pm:
as long as everyone did everything their jobs properly, yes. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:53pm Big Dave wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:51pm:
I'd feel terrible. I'd want the bastard who did it to die. However, that doesn't give me the right to kill him and it doesn't give a civilised country the right to use premeditated state-sanctioned killing as a means of punishment. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:55pm Socrates wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:46pm:
In other words you have no proof and therefore get obscene and offensive. Fine by me. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:55pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:52pm:
"It is still there". Wonderful. You should get your tourism board to use that as its slogan. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:55pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 7:52pm:
no, you are now confusing me with you ....I've answered everything .. it is you who tries to go of topic. My initial question was about the guy I put a link up to. You've since then moved onto the innocent, my guilt, the victims guilt, the bogans ... everything and anything to avoid answering ... and the only reason you avoid answering is because you are afraid to look like the hypocrite you are. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Socrates on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:56pm
http://deathpenaltycurriculum.org/student/c/about/arguments/argument1a.htm
NOT IN RESPONSE TO FREEDMAN. For the information of others. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:58pm
We don't need slogans thank you but you understand we operate in a situation where we must carry out removals of people by the state.
Now the situation is different in Australia. You need to follow courts etc which is the justice route and it is sensible to expect death sentences for nasty crimes. Perfectly reasonable. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Big Dave on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:00pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:52pm:
That last sentence says a hell of a lot Avram. Maybe some of these people need to leave their cosy lives and experience how law is adaptive to how much a group of people want to remain in power. Nice words won't maintain power. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:01pm
I notice for all their talk and high and mighty attitude, the anti death penalty crusaders on here are quick to avoid answering or quick to change the line of reasoning to something else whenever they are asked something they don't like.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:02pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:58pm:
No, perfectly unreasonable. That's why we don't have the death penalty in this country. We are (mostly) civilised people. You could learn an awful lot from us. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:03pm Socrates wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:56pm:
I suppose it's too much to ask for longy to put up his imaginary evidence. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:03pm
I still don't know why longweekend talked of carpet bombing civilians which everyone doesn't want and then accuses another person of off topic?
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:03pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:53pm:
Ummm, John, isn't THIS about executing the innocent? Including, possibly your own son? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Big Dave on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:04pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:53pm:
Well I feel sorry for the family who now don't have a daughter while some piece of crap still has a life after doing 10 years. The law is losing these people. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:04pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:03pm:
Evidence of what? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:05pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:02pm:
I could learn many things from Aussies. I find them a fascinating and warm friendly people. However my views on death penalty and necessary vengeance ? No I can learn nothing from them. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:05pm Socrates wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:56pm:
OK, FINE. I WON'T READ IT THEN. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:05pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:03pm:
I doubt Longy will be back in this thread, in fact he might not even return to this forum at all. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:06pm Big Dave wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:04pm:
Yes, so do I. Very much so. However, feeling sorry for someone doesn't give a country the right to use premeditated state-sanctioned killing as a form of punishment. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:06pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:03pm:
no, it's about executing the guilty. Don't try to make this about my son, stick to topic. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:06pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:05pm:
Avram, these are not the views of the majority of Australians, I can assure you. If a referendum was to be held tomorrow the result would be a reinstatement of the death penalty. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:07pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:05pm:
Actually, you are right and I was wrong. I seriously doubt that you could learn anything. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:08pm ian wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:06pm:
I think that would be true. It's a pity the ALP doesn't try to introduce it, they would almost be guaranteed a win in the election |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:10pm
My country performs targeted removals of murderers no matter where they run.
This has support of 80% of our people. My friend I support this. Every act shall be avenged. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:10pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:03pm:
Evidence of what? What is it you want to see John? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:11pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:04pm:
this was one of longy's comments earlier. multiple researchers have concluded that the DP is at best no deterrent at all and in a disturbing number of states/countries has a correlation with a slight increase in violent crime. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:12pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:10pm:
I don't doubt that for a minute. Your country is a shithole full of crazy people. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:14pm John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:11pm:
He was 100% correct. "A report that examined the 74 studies into the the death penalty over a 51-year period found no evidence that executing offenders had a deterrent effect on crime." "The October 2004 report for the NSW Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research, entitled The deterrent effect of capital punishment: A review of the research evidence, found no conclusive evidence that the death penalty had reduced crime." "One clear message comes from reading the vast literature that exists on this topic, and that is, there is no consistent evidence that capital punishment deters crime ... " "Some studies even found the opposite - a 'brutalisation effect' - that when the state sanctions violence, levels of violence increase." http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/is-capital-punishment-a-deterrent/2005/12/01/1133311147494.html |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:15pm
We live with different threats to you.
The principle of vengeance is the same all over the world. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:16pm
The 'funny' thing is that if an Israeli murders his Israeli neighbour, there is no death penalty.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:17pm
There is no domestic death penalty in Israel yes.
This is true. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:19pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:14pm:
not according to this one Then in 1973 Isaac Ehrlich employed a new kind of analysis which produced results showing that for every inmate who was executed, 7 lives were spared because others were deterred from committing murder. Similar results have been produced by disciples of Ehrlich in follow-up studies (that's from the link Socrates put up earlier) he even explained why the others were inconclusive Moreover, even if some studies regarding deterrence are inconclusive, that is only because the death penalty is rarely used and takes years before an execution is actually carried out. Punishments which are swift and sure are the best deterrent. The fact that some states or countries which do not use the death penalty have lower murder rates than jurisdictions which do is not evidence of the failure of deterrence. States with high murder rates would have even higher rates if they did not use the death penalty. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:22pm One study compared to 74. You can't be serious. "Even the most famous study by Issac Ehrlich in the 1970s, that did find qualified support for a deterrent effect, found that probability of arrest and conviction had a more profound impact." |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:26pm "Study: 88% of criminologists do not believe the death penalty is an effective deterrent" There is overwhelming consensus among Americas top criminologists that the empirical research conducted on the deterrence question fails to support the threat or use of the death penalty. A previous study in 1996 had come to similar conclusions." "Nearly 78% of those surveyed said that having the death penalty in a state does not lower the murder rate." http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/study-88-criminologists-do-not-believe-death-penalty-effective-deterrent |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:29pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:17pm:
*Pop* goes the vengeance crap. ;) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:34pm
It's not exactly my area of expertise so I'm not about to go looking for studies. Most of the studies you've shown have said that the evidence is inconclusive ... with 'some' showing crimes rates actually increase. I counter your 'some' with 'Similar results have been produced by disciples of Ehrlich'.
The truth of the matter is that the evidence is inconclusive one way or the other. It's impossible to test with any certainty. To know if it really works you would have to know the number of deaths that will occur over a period of time, with and without the death penalty. Then make your comparison. From a psychological point of view, their is no greater motivator than the risk to ones own life. Sure, some won't care regardless, but this isn't about ending these crimes, merely reducing and punishing appropriately. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:37pm Aussie wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:29pm:
I was not referring to domestic vengeance. I was talking about vengeance on our people by non Jews. But anyway this is not the point. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:41pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:37pm:
It has been the only point you have been making in this Thread. The dummies here fell for it. I realised you were blurring your argument quite deliberately, hence I decided to step into a Thread I swore I'd not post in. So, tell us what your view is on the 'domestic' death penalty, huh? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:47pm
I support the death penalty domestically as well.
My position is no different. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:55pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:47pm:
I agree. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7Q9ZEdOLSE |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:58pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:47pm:
Jolly good. Do carry on then, and remember, the discussion is not about vengeance in War, but sentencing for domestic criminal activity. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jun 29th, 2013 at 10:03pm
Hi Avram - have you watched hang em high with Clint Eastwood - ?
great movie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsMQABEiRMc |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 10:11pm
Any of you geniuses posting so called "studies: saying the DP does not deter crime care to explain why violent crime is on a downward trend in the US?
 11violentcrimeoffnesefigure.gif (15 KB | 32
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 29th, 2013 at 10:24pm
I'd be fascinated to know how any study can find that an execution deters seven other murders. Why not six or eight?
The other part of Socrates' link (yes, I cheated and read it) quotes another professor as claiming that the DP must be a deterrent because people fear death more than anything. That is certainly not true for all. And how many people commit crimes expecting to get found out? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 29th, 2013 at 10:26pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:37pm:
We're you also talking about the vengeance of Jews on non Jews? Or is that different? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 29th, 2013 at 10:28pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 9:15pm:
No, Avram, vengeance isn't a principle. It is an emotional reaction. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jun 29th, 2013 at 10:29pm
Ian, that graph says nothing about the death penalty and any deterrent value it might have.
In fact, if the DP was really the cause of that drop, there would be a consistent drop and not a rise. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:05pm
Not all American states have the DP. National figures are meaningless.
Murder rates in death penalty states have been higher than in those without execution every year for at least the last twenty. Source: www.deathpenalty.org. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:23pm
Interestingly enough, the violent crime statistics in the US have been trending down since the 80's. This directly corresponds to the number of executions which have followed an upward trend since that time. It pretty well puts to rest any argument that the DP corresponds to an actual increase in crime.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:27pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:05pm:
Yes, but the comparison used is a states murder rates with the DP compared to another without the DP. This is meaningless Now compare the murder rates within the individual states to the number of people they execute, you will find that the more people they execute, the lower the murder rate. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:29pm Aussie wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 10:29pm:
I agree with your first point. As to the rise in crime, that is only a rise compared to the previous year, the trend is still significantly downward. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 30th, 2013 at 3:02am
The graph is meaningless.
Firstly, it covers all violent crime and not all such offences attract the death penalty. Secondly it produces figures for the entire US, while only some states conduct executions. A meaningful comparison is the murder rates for execution states versus the rates for non execution ones. This shows the murder rate for the execution states has been higher for at least the last twenty years. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 30th, 2013 at 8:56am ian wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:31pm:
thats because anyone with any actual knowledge would be aware that the majority of sex offenders against children are not pedophiles - they are sex offenders. pedophiles are people with a sexual preference for children. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 30th, 2013 at 8:59am ian wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:45pm:
a misrepresented report because it is based on convictions and not offences. it is inherently biased. most sexual offenders against children are opportunistic and not predatory which is also one of the diagnositc crtieria that is missed. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 30th, 2013 at 8:59am
you can always rely on longy to change the topic to something else when he doesn't want to answer something
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 30th, 2013 at 9:01am John Smith wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 8:53pm:
so you arent really that interested in justice then are you. Just as long as some people die you are happy. Their guilt or innocence is not of great concern to you. thanks for proving my point which is that bloodlust is the central driver for DP proponents. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 30th, 2013 at 9:06am ian wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 10:11pm:
the DP was introduced 30 yeas before this graph thus rendering your graph POINTLESS>. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 30th, 2013 at 9:10am longweekend58 wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 9:01am:
See there you go with your stupid statements again. The death penalty is justice dopey. And I only support the death penalty on the guilty. I do not propose we hang the innocent so stop trying to make it about something its not. It's not about bloodlust, its about JUSTICE. Real justice, not this take them to a shrink, give a tablet and a good lecture and make them promise not to do it again. The only point proven is that you are incapable of sticking to topic and you would rather go on a rant about me than answer basic questions. By the way, Just to refresh your memory, last nights question ..... would you be happy for a serial pedo who was released from jail, after serving his sentence, to move next door to your grandkids ? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 30th, 2013 at 9:22am John Smith wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 9:10am:
I don't accept the premise of your question. Why is the "serial pedo" being released? You seem to be suggesting that there are only two options when it comes to dealing with "serial pedos": the death penalty or release from jail. :-/ The first question you should ask is "would you be happy for a serial pedo to be released from jail"? Then, you can ask the second question regarding the grandkids. (and, of course, by "serial pedo" I assume that you meant "serial sex offender") |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Socrates on Jun 30th, 2013 at 9:53am
LW I usually agree with your posts, especially with regards to political debate, however there are one or two occasions where i find that your views are absolutely stupid and you seem to veer over to the other sheep who have neither experience with the subject or who do not sympathise with the victims or their loved ones who are left with a lifetime of suffering, and this is one of those occasions........
The psychopaths who commit these crimes cannot be normalised and should be eradicated from society. The pedophiles plain and simply should also be eradicated, no question. The premeditated murders who plan and execute the most heinous of crimes should suffer the DP......no long terms taxpayer funded death row holiday, immediate injection. Killing of a LE Officer, police or other agencies, should be automatic DP. Call it revenge, call it barbaric, call it what the hell you like. I consider it a very effective deterrent which saves innocent lives and delivers justice. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 30th, 2013 at 10:03am ian wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:27pm:
How can the comparison be meaningless? It is a clear indication that execution states have higher murder rates. To claim that is meaningless is just absurd. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 30th, 2013 at 10:48am
For 2011, the lat available, the murder rate for death states was 4.7, for the others 3.1.
These figures are simple, clear and demonstrate the DP is no deterrent. To argue otherwise is self delusion. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jun 30th, 2013 at 10:55am
Imagine the main street of every city,
with lampposts from which 100's of bad guys are hanging by ropes with signs around their necks saying what they have done: murderer, rapist, thief, pedophile, terrorist. Oh the joy for justice & a deterrent to others. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jun 30th, 2013 at 10:55am https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsMQABEiRMc |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 30th, 2013 at 10:55am greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 9:22am:
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 30th, 2013 at 10:59am Socrates wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 9:53am:
That's how I see most of his posts Socrates .... Welcome to my world ... he makes you want to grab him by the scruff of the neck and knock some sense into him. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 30th, 2013 at 11:01am Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 10:03am:
For that to be true you would have to assume that all the states would have exactly the same murder rate if they al had the same penalties. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 30th, 2013 at 12:08pm Socrates wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 9:53am:
I would call it everything you say, bar the deterrent. There is no proof of that, but plenty against it. Yet you believe it anyway. You should change your nick. Socrates was a very wise man. You are not. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Socrates on Jun 30th, 2013 at 12:16pm
When I want your opinion on anything I'll request it. That, you opinionated clown will not happen, so shut the bugger up!
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 30th, 2013 at 12:28pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 12:08pm:
I had always assumed he was just being ironic. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 30th, 2013 at 12:31pm ian wrote on Jun 29th, 2013 at 11:23pm:
pity that what you say is complete BS. And unsupported, of course. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 30th, 2013 at 12:33pm John Smith wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 9:10am:
actually, that is not true. You have only scant interest in avoiding executing the innocent and as long as 'every tries real hard' you are happy for the innocent to be executed along with the guilty. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 30th, 2013 at 12:34pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 10:48am:
Nice twist, but as i stated previously you need to compare DP and murder rates withing individual states to have any relevance. There may be any number of other factors why states have a high mruder rate, increased access to firearms, etc. And as I also stated previously, when you compare DP rates to murder rates within individual states, the rising number of exectutions corresponds directly to a lower rate of homicide which is why overall US homicide and crime rate is trending down. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 30th, 2013 at 12:34pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 12:33pm:
you wouldn't know the truth if it fell on you. Are you going to answer my question or are you still running? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 30th, 2013 at 12:36pm Socrates wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 9:53am:
the problem with your argument is that you are quite simply wrong in every aspect. the DP does NOT deter crime. It is not foolproof and many innocents have been executed. very few criminals are actually psychopaths ro sociopaths so that eliminates that category as well. So we are left with the real remaining reason for the DP which is revenge and bloodlust |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 30th, 2013 at 12:37pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 12:31pm:
Tell us a bit more about the book you wrote on pedophiles and how that is part of human behaviour and how these people arent predators. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 30th, 2013 at 12:44pm
So in the end what do we have here?
We have John Smith who believes passionately in exeucting criminals but with not a lot of problems with the innocent being caught up in the hangmans noose as well We have Ian who reject all evidence contrary to his opinion and while he states that no innocent should ever be executed he has this quaint belief that an error-free death penalty is possible because of 'dna and forensics'. We have Avram who seems to believe in vengeance for everything and seems quite happy for the innocent to die along with the guilty. Worst point of course is that this beleif applies to arabs not jews. (and I am an Israel supporter) We have incontrovertible evidence that not only is the DP not a deterrent but seems to increase the rate of violent crime. The argument about 'protecting soceiety from recidivist criminals' always fails because the option of life without parole exists. But then there isnt the joy of killing someone. so in short, there is no reason, no justification and no positive outcome for the DP. On the other hand there is the guaranteed execution of innocent people and an increase in violent crime. And thats before we even begin to discuss the moral ambiguity of the state killing someone. so, bloodlusting DP proponents... tell me again why the DP is good. Do a pro and con analysis of it. See if you can even make a half-decent case. I tip you will ignore all the above and go back to Milat, Ferguson or whoever and reduce the debate to your own pitiful arguments-by-example rather than an argument on principle. over to you bloodlusters! |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 30th, 2013 at 1:17pm
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 30th, 2013 at 1:17pm
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 30th, 2013 at 1:18pm
i dont know why but a lot of posts arent showing in this thread, getting a bit tired of this site.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by JC Denton on Jun 30th, 2013 at 1:45pm
there is no guarantee of an "increase in violent crime".
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 30th, 2013 at 1:46pm JC Denton wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 1:45pm:
experience of other jurisdictions with the DP suggests there is such a a guarantee. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by JC Denton on Jun 30th, 2013 at 2:10pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 1:46pm:
like where and how are you bridging the gap between correlation and causation here |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 30th, 2013 at 2:25pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 1:46pm:
No, all evidence suggests the opposite. The rise in the number of people executed in the US directly corresponds with a drop in violent crime. Thats as simple as it gets. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jun 30th, 2013 at 2:33pm ian wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 2:25pm:
Ian, this page of information suggests you are wrong. Quote:
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 30th, 2013 at 2:43pm Aussie wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 2:33pm:
no it doesnt, you need to understand what I am saying here. All you are doing is posting compariison rates between states, this proves nothing since some states may have already had a high violent crime rate which may very well be the reason why they have the DP to begin with.. Violent crimee overall in the US has been trending down since the 80's. This directly corresponds with an increaqse in the number of people executed. Now, if you have a look at individual states you will alos find that thier violent crime rate trends down directly corresponding toi the numkber of people executed. I cant make it any simpler than that. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jun 30th, 2013 at 2:51pm Quote:
What the information I provided shows is that the DP has no connection with the decrease in (in this case) murders. 'Simple as that.' |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bambu on Jun 30th, 2013 at 3:08pm Time America woke up to itself ... and stopped execution-homiciding human beings in death chambers Wonder when California will be starting with the execution-homiciding [some people are calling it 'mass murder'] of the 700+ convicteds it has on its death row? Got themselves a brand new shining death chamber and renovated the old gas chamber. Statistics show that some of the 700+ inmates on death row could be innocent. Obama stays silent. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jun 30th, 2013 at 3:35pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 12:44pm:
Firstly longstupidone, where have I ever said I have no problem with innocents being caught up? Do you have to twist what I say to try to make your point valid? You asked me if I would feel guilty ... I answered no. There is a difference. Secondly, you said 'reduce the debate to your own pitiful arguments-by-example rather than an argument on principle' .... that's as close as you've ever come to actually understanding it. The fact that you did so by accident and probably haven't even realised shows what a fool you are. The death penalty should be looked at on a case by case basis. Not as a matter of principle. Principles have nothing to do with justice. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 30th, 2013 at 4:17pm Aussie wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 2:51pm:
What the information I provided shows is that the DP has no connection with the decrease in (in this case) murders. 'Simple as that.'No, while the correlation between high DP executions and the downward trend on crime doesnt necassarily mean causation (although there is obviously a strong inference) comparing a states crime rate without the DP to one with the DP is erroneous because there are obviously other factors at work including individual state gun licensing laws and existing historical high or low rates of homicide. What we can say without doubt that it shows is that violent crime does not increase in corelation with an increase of executions. as some are claiming here, but just the opposite. There is no argument that the US violent crime rate including that for homicide has been trending downward since the 80's, there is also no argument that DP execution rates have been rising during this period. Causation is the argument here, whether or not the high DP death rates are directly causing a lower rate of violent crime. We must also take inot account, stricter law enforcement, higher incarceration rates, longer prison terms and higher personal firearm ownership rates. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jun 30th, 2013 at 4:29pm
You've had me a little confused with what you have previously said with this, Mr Smith:
Quote:
Can you clarify your position on this matter? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 30th, 2013 at 5:38pm JC Denton wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 2:10pm:
74 studies have concluded this. So dont argue with me, argue with the researchers. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 30th, 2013 at 5:40pm
Tell me why you would expect an act to go unavenged?
I don't understand why you would accept it. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 30th, 2013 at 5:40pm John Smith wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 3:35pm:
Principles have nothing to do with justice??? that comment alone invalidates EVERYTHING you have to say on the topic! unbelievably stupid. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 30th, 2013 at 5:50pm Aussie wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 4:29pm:
He was asked before if for example 10 people were executed per year and if 3 were innocent would he have a problem with it. In response he said that as long as everyone had done their best he had no issue with this. Ergo, he has no real problem with the execution of the innocent as long as i isnt deliberate. It isnt exactly the high moral ground! |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 30th, 2013 at 5:51pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 5:40pm:
The fact that you literally have no comprehension of an alternative response other than revenge is deeply disturbing. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jun 30th, 2013 at 5:52pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 5:38pm:
75 studies have coincluded the opposite. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 30th, 2013 at 6:00pm ian wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 5:52pm:
thank you for yet again providing evidence of your intellectual deficiencies and I would like to thank you for playing (and losing) this debate and if there were a DP in Australia it should be reserved for the desperately stupid just in case they breed. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 30th, 2013 at 6:05pm
And I think that draws this year's annual DP debate to a close with the pro-DP section predictably immolating themselves on a pyre of bloodlust and revenge and intellectual paucity.
It was rather easy to be honest. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jun 30th, 2013 at 6:59pm Bobby. wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 10:55am:
bump |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 30th, 2013 at 7:08pm
Longweekend. None of your alleged arguments successfully changed my mind as a supporter of the death penalty.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 30th, 2013 at 7:13pm ian wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 5:52pm:
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 30th, 2013 at 7:18pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 7:08pm:
IM not sure why you think having a closed mind and next to no respect for life is a virtue. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 30th, 2013 at 7:18pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 5:40pm:
I don't understand you. Seriously. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 30th, 2013 at 7:33pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 7:18pm:
it was one of the more deeply disturbing posts. Ian is an idiot and John Smith is just an angry old fart but this... this is an insight into why the M/E will always be a toilet-hole. No one from either side has the slightest notion of value of life and as for forgiveness??? the concept is virtually unknown. And to think that Jesus - history's greatest exponent of forgiveness came from that country. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jun 30th, 2013 at 7:33pm
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jun 30th, 2013 at 7:40pm longweekend58 wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 6:05pm:
Yes, I think we are done. At least someone is done. Thank you, longy and others for an interesting debate. The attitude of some on this topic is a timely reminder that often civilisation is only skin deep. With others it doesn't even reach that far. Thank you, linesmen, thank you, ball boys. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jun 30th, 2013 at 7:42pm
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:25am greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 7:18pm:
No you dont. But Avram does what men do and you do whatever you do. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:30am longweekend58 wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 7:33pm:
And yet I refuted every single fabricated statistic and claim you came up with. You were beaten by an idiot. Doesnt make you very clever does it now? Anyway, thats Mister idiot to you. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by warrigal on Jul 1st, 2013 at 8:21am
What a pack of IGNORANT brbarivk BASTARDS you all are.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jul 1st, 2013 at 9:00am longweekend58 wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 5:40pm:
No, what is unbelievably stupid is some hick poster thinking he gets to dictate what is and isn't a valid comment.. ..... you failed another one dopey. Stick to Evian, I only hope you have some idea what you are doing there. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 9:06am John Smith wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 9:00am:
do you even know what a principle is??? In this context it is the guiding rules and laws we apply to anyone regardless of race colour creed or.. offence. you really are an ill-informed moron. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jul 1st, 2013 at 9:14am longweekend58 wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 7:33pm:
Every time you open your mouth you continually prove what a terrible judge of anything you are .... I am neither angry nor old, you geriatric fool. Not unless you consider early 40's old .... |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jul 1st, 2013 at 9:18am longweekend58 wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 9:06am:
yes dopey, your problem is that your principles don't mean sh1t to me ...... |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 10:26am longweekend58 wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 7:33pm:
Yes, many of his posts are quite disturbing. As you've said: no value of human life and absolutely no idea of forgiveness. Hopefully his time in Australia will help him realise that's there's more to life than hate and vengeance. And good old ian: he's a strange one, that's for sure. Despite being proven wrong on just about every point (in every argument, on every thread in this forum) he still maintains that black is white and white is black. His opinion is "fact" and every real fact in the world is merely "opinion". Quite an extraordinary fellow. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 1st, 2013 at 11:04am
Find me some more of my "disturbing" posts.
I have a support for the death penalty as a just act of ensuring further people are not killed. I do not see that as disturbing at all. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 11:13am Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 11:04am:
"Death penalty provides vengeance and justice." "Never let a act go unavenged." "Vengeance is not disgusting but it is natural justice of correcting a wrong." "However my views on death penalty and necessary vengeance ?" "Every act shall be avenged." "The principle of vengeance is the same all over the world." "Tell me why you would expect an act to go unavenged? I don't understand why you would accept it." Deeply, deeply disturbing. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 1st, 2013 at 11:18am
Not disturbing at all.
1973 - Operation Wrath of God - Several hours before each assassination, each target's family received flowers with a condolence card reading: "A reminder we do not forget or forgive." "They will look over their shoulders every day and night of their lives. They will run. They will hide. But we are coming. These deaths will be avenged and they will pay with their blood." Golda Meir, Prime Minister Greggerypeccary - when you have seen 6m of your people murdered, when you have seen your lives attacked, when you have seen your families killed. Maybe they you will understand we do not have your luxuries of sitting in your home in australia shaking your head and asking for forgiveness. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 11:26am Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 11:18am:
Deeply, deeply disturbing. The Middle East will always be a shithole as long as people like you continue with your primitive, draconian mindset. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 11:42am Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 11:18am:
What a sick, sick society. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 1st, 2013 at 12:15pm
A society which is under attack and do not have the luxuries you do.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by FriYAY on Jul 1st, 2013 at 12:16pm
Milat, Bryant, knight, Deyner theres 4 we could drag out now and put down like bad dogs.
>:( Bang Bang Bang Bang :) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 1:08pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 12:15pm:
I'm not denying any of that. However, a society built on perpetual hate and vengeance is a very sick and disturbing society. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 1:11pm FriYAY wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 12:16pm:
A civilised nation does not use premeditated state-sanctioned killing as a punishment. No matter how horrendous the crime or who the criminal is. It's not a debate about individuals or particular crimes. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 1st, 2013 at 1:16pm
Nonsense.
A state does have every right to avenge the killings of its people and to correct the scores. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 1:20pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7Q9ZEdOLSE
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 1:25pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 1:16pm:
A nation state built on perpetual hate and vengeance is a very sick and disturbing society. Using phrases like "correct the scores" when talking about human life clearly demonstrates the disturbing dehumanising influence of your extremely primitive, draconian society. Check that poo at the door when you enter this country: it's not welcome here. Very, very sick. (* I pegged you as a troll when I first saw your posts, and my mind hasn't changed on the matter. No sane person could have the attutude that you display in this forum, thus it is quite clear you're just trying to stir up trouble. However, I enjoy addressing your ridiculous posts because you're not that good at trolling. You make little slips now and then. Carry on though.) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 1:36pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 1:08pm:
Hate is not a prerequisite to carry out an execution, in fact, it's better if it is not involved at all. Granted the softer member of our society who embrace a the group hug philosophy dealing with scumbags need to explain everything in extreme emotional terms, but it is nothing more that a legal process. Now run off grab a tissue and wipe away those crocodile tears, little buckaroo. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 1:41pm BigOl64 wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 1:36pm:
Once again, you've got it wrong (seriously, do you ever get anything right?). I was talking about Avram's shithole of a country, in general. It wasn't a comment on capital punishment per se. Try to keep up. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 1:44pm BigOl64 wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 1:36pm:
Hi BigOl, would you like the honor of pulling the pin on the gallows? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 1:46pm BigOl64 wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 1:36pm:
This is where your stupidity really shines through. In your little mind there are two options: capital punishment, or group hugs. Your narrow-minded ignorance can not even imagine that there may be any alternatives in between. Don't be too hard on yourself though: many advocates for state-sanctioned killing fall into the same trap. As for myself, I don't need any tissues: I'm not shedding a tear over any "scumbag". I'm opposed to premeditated state-sanctioned killing as a punishment. I'm not opposed to punishing criminals. See if you can spot the difference. ;) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 1st, 2013 at 1:59pm
I am not a troll thank you. But can "peg" me however you like.
I am fine with your views. I am a visitor and a very happyn one to be here one too. My society as you call it is not sick. We have actually a peaceful country. The only violence etc you see on the tv is in very small areas in disputed zones. I grew up in a city which saw no violence and is as peaceful as any. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 1:59pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 1:46pm:
I don't want our society spending 40 years punishing some criminal - just hang them & hang them high with a sign around their neck saying what they've done: murderer rapist thief pedophile terrorist |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Socrates on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:03pm
Peccahead, why do you call Israel a sh1thole of a country? Have you ever been there? Or is it that they are smacking good at protecting themselves and won't take sh1t of anybody, unlike Australia that needs to dance to Indonesia's tune because that country allows boat loads of illegals to leave its ports for this country.
I say good for you Israel, keeping smacking up those murderous bastards who would eradicate the State of Israel, keep upsetting weak mouthy wankers like peccahead who have never experienced any danger, risk or had to fight to live. Kudos to you and your countrymen and women. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:05pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 1:59pm:
On the steps of the Opera House bobby? Federation Square? Rundle St Mall? Will you be selling popcorn bobby? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:06pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 1:59pm:
OK, I'm convinced. ::) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:08pm
duplicate
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by FriYAY on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:08pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 1:11pm:
All civilized nations use premeditated state sanctioned punishments. Death for heinous crimes, proved beyond any doubt (Milat, Bryant, Knight, Deyner etc) should be one of them. Bang Bang Bang Bang |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:08pm
bump
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:10pm FriYAY wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:08pm:
Really Einstein? ::) They don't, however, use premeditated state-sanctioned killing as a punishment. Huge difference. Huge. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:10pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:05pm:
Yes - good idea - the center of town so that everyone can see. Popcorn & ice cold ginger beer would be given out freely. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by FriYAY on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:12pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:10pm:
And Im saying they should. Do try to keep up. ::) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:12pm FriYAY wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:08pm:
What about retrospective justice? Just drag out all the worst offenders from jail & hang them all on one day in the city square? Invite school children to witness it so they'll grow up better people. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:13pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:10pm:
Good on ya bobby: http://www.becaustralia.org.au/ |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Ubermensch on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:13pm
Avram's vengeance is understandable when you consider the part of the world he's in and the history of Jews. He also displays strong ethnic solidarity through seeking vengeance, which is common for Jews. Whites have no such ethnic solidarity; it has been eliminated through 50 years of 'education', therefore whites simply do not understand ethnic solidarity at all and the vengeance that comes with it when part of the group has been damaged by an outsider. In fact, we have the reverse attitude here: Solidarity and self-determination for all races and cultures except for whites.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:14pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:12pm:
you could probably put the budget back in surplus with all the savings you'd make. Alternatively, we could always ship them of to the UK. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:14pm FriYAY wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:12pm:
Well if they did, they wouldn't be civilised. capiche? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:16pm John Smith wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:14pm:
Actually you could sell tickets for $50 each. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:16pm Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:13pm:
Yes, not acceptable though. (I still maintain that he's a troll) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:18pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:16pm:
imagine the television rights? Murdoch would pay a fortune. Maybe start a 24 hr DP channel |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:20pm
Bump - every time Greg posts the page won't turn without a bump.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:20pm
bump again
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:23pm
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:24pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:20pm:
Nonsense. See! |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:25pm John Smith wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:18pm:
Yes - & don't have a gallows - just string them up slowly on to power poles. It lasts longer that way. ;) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:25pm John Smith wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:18pm:
I wish you guys wouldn't use those initials. It makes me think of them in the porn industry context. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:26pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 1:46pm:
Never said there were only two options, so no need to lie to support your argument; just been reading your endless emotive arguments against tapping the deserving scumbag na d concluded you only hand two options. You're the one with the let 'em live at all costs agenda and sadly you are well supported by a soft c0ck judiciary. I oppose filth being allow to live one day longer than is necessary, and I have not one ounce of hate toward them, I just prefer to know they ain't walkin free because of some sh1t head manipulating our weak laws to get them out. Try a less emotive argument about how your lot is about ensuring that scumbags will never breath free air and never go on to commit more crimes because they weren't dealt with properly in the first place and then we might have a decent judicial system. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:29pm BigOl64 wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:26pm:
You were caught out. It's done now. Learn to live with your mistakes. And try to use rational thinking instead of irrational emotions when addressing topics like this. You'll be taken more seriously that way. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:31pm
I hope the killer of Jill Meagher - Adrian Bayley -
gets some prison justice as per Carl Williams. The only way we ever see justice is when the crooks do it for us. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:37pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:31pm:
Not an entirely unreasonable comment. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:40pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:37pm:
Well - the limp wristed judges aren't allowed to give the DP so the crooks do it instead. Apparently the crooks have some sort of honor system & they don't like murderers, rapists, women bashers & pedophiles. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by FriYAY on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:58pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:14pm:
In your opinion. Comprendez? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 3:01pm FriYAY wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:58pm:
Yes, in my civilised opinion. concordato |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jul 1st, 2013 at 3:05pm Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:13pm:
Jews come in all colours, I am white and Jewish. What Avram doesn't understand is that so long as his people seek vengeance and his enemies do the same, the killing will go on and on. His mule headed attitude ensures there will never be peace for those who come after him. It is blind, crazy and very, very sad. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 3:06pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:29pm:
You continue to lie, even to the extent of misrepresenting posts. So lying is the only way you can move on from here, I also think we're done. Remember you're the bleeding heart cry baby, carrying on like killing a scumbag will be the downfall of all society, instead of just the production of a dead scumbag. ;D Lying and crying, jeez, :-[ |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 3:09pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:37pm:
So you you don't mind that scumbags get tapped out, you don't want it done under controlled and managed processes as an official act of the state. Turn our gaols into the Thunder Dome, killing for sh1ts and giggles among the prisoners. Jeez no hypocrisy there. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 3:16pm BigOl64 wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 3:09pm:
"Not an entirely unreasonable comment." "Turn our gaols into the Thunder Dome, killing for sh1ts and giggles among the prisoners." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifjk032k7m4 |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by FriYAY on Jul 1st, 2013 at 3:19pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 3:01pm:
No :) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 3:20pm BigOl64 wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 3:06pm:
You were caught out. You should have walked away with a little bit of dignity. That ship has sailed. Sorry. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 3:30pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 3:05pm:
Yeah, I don't think if israel stops killing people the arabs will just let them live in peace. Pretty much any sign of weakness or lack of resolve will see the end of the jewish state, pretty quick smart. The arabs attitude to israel is no different now than it was in the 60's and 70's, just ask the president of iran if the existence of israel is acceptable. When the amount of people who want to kill you vastly outnumber you, then being 'nice' isn't really an option. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 3:48pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 3:05pm:
You're right, and it's difficult to comprehend why he doesn't understand that fact. Or, it may be a case that he understands but doesn't really care. Death and vengeance are inevitable in his (horrible) world and since he's known nothing else he's accepted his fate. He quite literally knows no better. All quite sad. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:07pm
Guys, the game is over.
The ref has blown his whistle and the crowd's gone home. The lights have been turned out, the hot dogs are cold and the beer warm. There will never be consensus as to the winner. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:17pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 3:05pm:
Ok this is not a subject on my homeland but let me tell you this once and so straight so it is clear. I support the death penalty - why do i do so? Because i believe that a killing can not go unavenged and that it is just retribution for taking lives - be this in attacks of terror or in murder circumstances. Now just on the subject of my home. Greggerypeccery it is a beautiful place. It is mostly peaceful and it has wonders which i invite you to come and see. It is the birthplace of civilization and of the biblical times - even your christian heroes they are here. Now I grow up in Haifa - until I go into the IDF i see no fighting, no war, no terror in my personal life. All you see is on the tv - this is the areas where many of us dont live. I see all this in my time in the army. Now what of my views? I support peace. I support reconciliation. I support giving some land in exchange for peace. But i believe in retribution, i believe in avenging death, i believe in taking eye for a eye and never take a step back. All of these things in its correct place. I am the young generation of Israelis. We are prepared for peace but we are ready for war. It is the arabs choice which they get. Now return to the death penalty discussion please. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:19pm Quote:
Problem with that theory especially in the ME......is......who took the first life and eye? And from there on, then violence becomes self propelling. Dumb. Aussie wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:28pm:
Agreed, Mr Freedman. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:20pm Socrates wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:03pm:
Yes (last February). Have you? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:22pm
You call the Holy Land a 'sh1thole'?
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:22pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 3:20pm:
Having a gif doesn't make your lies any more plausible. You're liar, nothing more and probably considerably less. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by dsmithy70 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:23pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:17pm:
Have you been to the Universal House of Justice on Mt Carmel? I hope to visit it someday. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:23pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:17pm:
No need to. "And I think that draws this year's annual DP debate to a close with the pro-DP section predictably immolating themselves on a pyre of bloodlust and revenge and intellectual paucity." http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1372309675/429#429 |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:24pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:22pm:
The entire Middle East. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:25pm Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:23pm:
Yes i have been. It is a beautiful building to see. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:26pm BigOl64 wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:22pm:
Run out of puff, and now it's just insults. Am I surprised? Of course not. Bye bye. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:27pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:24pm:
Me, I would not call anyone's country such. Every country and region has bad places and problem places. There is much in Israel to see which is beautiful. My home city is peaceful and has many things and wonders for people like aussies from a new country to see. We have buildings older than your entire country to see. So much history. You cannot be so negative about it. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:33pm Quote:
No, you don't. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:33pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:27pm:
I can. I'm glad I went. Doubt I'll go back. The buildings were ... OK. I've seen old poo before: I've been to Ostia Antica a couple of times. Meh. I've been around. Seen some beautiful countries. Yours isn't on the list. Sorry. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:36pm Aussie wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:33pm:
Your country is 200 years old. yes we do. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by dsmithy70 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:38pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:27pm:
The problem stems from the fact we never hear or see any good come out of any country in that region. Sure Dubai is the flavour of the month ATM but that's only because we as a society worship wealth. The rest of the middle East is just murder & death. I myself hve posted many times we should just pull the camera's out & let you kill each other off. It does not help that interests of both sides manipulate our media & politicians either for gain, whether monetary or sympathy. It may not be true but in regards to Israel & the Palestinians you look like the Ghetto guards of the Nazi's. The persecuted have become the persecutors. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:40pm Aussie wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:33pm:
Quote:
Yes I can, given the instability (and attitude) there threatens the entire Planet. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:42pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:36pm:
Actually, you'll find the country had been here for millions of years ..... |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:42pm Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:38pm:
Can't say Dubai impressed me much. I'll be in Qatar shortly: we'll see how that stacks up. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:42pm Aussie wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:33pm:
The Tower of King David was build by King Herod 2,050 years ago. Your country begins in 210 years ago right? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:43pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:42pm:
No, it's been here for a few million years. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:43pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:42pm:
White colonisation of it did. We have evidence of life here millions of years ago. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:44pm John Smith wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:42pm:
Not as a the country though. Maybe as the land but that is the case for the whole planets. I am talking that the history we have for the buildings and civilization, there was no Australia or Australians. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:45pm Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:38pm:
This is a very offensive comment to say to us you know. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:45pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:26pm:
Running out of puff, you haven't presented anything to argue against. Just misrepresenting the arguments of others, and speding time tracking down gifs. This facile attempt at school yard humour, merely proves that you're pretty hollow little man. But we know that from previous encounters don't we; little man. But if gifs and lies are all you have, then so be it. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:46pm
Israel did not exist prior to 1948......and I can see another Thread in the making, another 'Israel' Thread.
:-[ |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:50pm
[quote author=Aussie link=1372309675/528#528 date=1372661179]Israel did not exist prior to 1948......and I can see another Thread in the making, another 'Israel' Thread.
:-[/quote] Then he said to me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say, Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are indeed cut off. Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I will open your graves and raise you from your graves, O my people. And I will bring you into the land of Israel. Ezekiel 37:11 |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by dsmithy70 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:50pm Aussie wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:43pm:
A cave is not a building. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by FriYAY on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:50pm Aussie wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:43pm:
Oh FFS. I knew you morons were going to say awww we got ya, our country is millions of years old nah nah na nah nah But i didnt think 3 x morons would. So did you win? Or do you look like morons? How many buildings were here 1 million years ago? Pyrrhic victory anyone . ::) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:50pm Aussie wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:43pm:
Indeed. (RIP) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by dsmithy70 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:51pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:45pm:
It might be offensive, the truth often is to those that don't wish to hear it. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:52pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:45pm:
Will you be wreaking vengeance? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by John Smith on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:54pm FriYAY wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:50pm:
But no one said Australia had buildings older than Israel.... he said Israel had building older than Australia (not Australian buildings) ... learn to read Now who looks like the moron? moron. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by dsmithy70 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:55pm |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 1st, 2013 at 5:03pm
dsmithy - thats very misleading. Thats just a regular checkpoint at the border.
Its not a concentration camp - it is not even a camp. The fence is the border. The roof is lining up section to keep people out of the sun. Jews have to line up for checkpoints too. This is my point about the media. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by dsmithy70 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 5:44pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 5:03pm:
Better? Also I did point out the perception we have here Quote:
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 5:48pm Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:51pm:
Nup, it's just offensive and that is all it was meant to be; so well done |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by dsmithy70 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 6:01pm BigOl64 wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 5:48pm:
Your entitled to your opinion, their like assholes, everyone has one. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 6:13pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 2:40pm:
a murderer killed by a murderer is not an honour system and anyone who thinks so clearly has little idea what HONOUR actually means. Unless of course you think Islamic Honour Killings re righteous?? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 6:15pm BigOl64 wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 3:30pm:
never heard of Ghandi??? not exactly a failure now, was he? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 6:17pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:17pm:
you are not prepared for peace at all. Your attitudes absolutely preclued any possibility of any kind of peace. Peace requires give and take and you will no budge one inch... ever. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 6:19pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:42pm:
We are going to Saudi Arabia this year (I hope). Not exactly a tourist destination! |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 6:22pm
old buildings... whoopee
it is hardly the measure of a country. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 6:46pm
Longy has an altered personality on this topic:
He cares about murderers, rapists, thieves, & pedophiles & the justice they receive. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 6:49pm BigOl64 wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:45pm:
Still just insults. Tsk Tsk. You were caught out. Be a man and move on. Each new post just makes you look a little sillier (as hard as that is to imagine). Maybe tomorrow will be a better day for you (let's all hope so). Bye bye my little friend. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Lionel Edriess on Jul 1st, 2013 at 6:49pm Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 4:38pm:
As an unqualified comment, as a personal point of view, I find those remarks both offensive and insensitive. It's quite obvious that none of your family had any experience in the death camps - can you say the same for Avram's family? In the 58 years since its establishment, the state of Israel has proven that there is life and hope in the sands of the Middle East without the benefit of the oil deposits exploited by other countries in the region. They've achieved their statehood by sheer hard work and a refusal to be bullied by enemies on every side. From where do you draw your comparisons? At this very moment we have 'Australian' citizens flying overseas to fight with Al Qaeda sympathisers in Syria! Won't they be an asset to Australia when they get back home. Look at the crime stats in this country over the last fifteen years and then tell me, "It's the Joooooooooos!" Shame on you! You stand at odds with the very thing that makes this country worth living in - the concept of the 'fair go'. >:( |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 6:52pm Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 6:01pm:
As does every thread. (how's it going '64? ;)) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 6:53pm
This thread is off topic.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:00pm Lionel Edriess wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 6:49pm:
Yeas, but I will never fathom why in 1948 they bunged a Jewish State right in the middle of 'Arabia.' I have offered Tasmania as an alternative many times, but those stubborn two headed selfish bastards will not let go! |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:02pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 6:53pm:
Well, let's get it back on topic and up to date. "Capital punishment is no easy answer. It is a barbaric, horrific and out-dated relic, tainted by the nightmare grisly ceremony of the whole process, something incongruous to a modern society and rightly consigned to the dustbin of history. It must never return." http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/rob-atkinson/capital-punishment-not-the-answer_b_3122727.html |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:14pm Aussie wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:00pm:
Hey! That's my second home. Hands off. Offer South Australia, or the NT. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:14pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:02pm:
I don't agree - hang em high. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:19pm
Just started a new poll.
Do you support the death penalty? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:20pm
bump
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:20pm
bump again - didn't flip the page.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:21pm
bump for the 3rd time - still didn't flip.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:22pm
still won't flip - what's wrong?
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:24pm
5th time?
The page finally flipped. What the hell is wrong with the software? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:30pm
We seem to have moved far from the original topic, but that's not unusual.
As a man of Jewish heritage I take great pride in much of what my people have done. The transformation of barren country into a green, productive land and a thriving democracy, is a marvellous achievement. But I am ashamed of the Israeli attitude to Palestine. And I am disgusted by the cries for vengeance typified by Avram Horowitz. Both sides desperately need leaders of Gandhi-like qualities, men who see beyond the insane cries for revenge and find a way for both peoples to live beside each other in peace and brotherhood. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Lionel Edriess on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:30pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:24pm:
That's easy! Doesn't want to accept the inevitable! All you young'uns want to dig out the old Soylent Green movie. That's your future - unless you're a pork eater. ;) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by dsmithy70 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:33pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:30pm:
Thanks Peter, for putting my clumsy thoughts into a easily understood post. Agree on all points :) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:49pm Lionel Edriess wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 6:49pm:
dont be such a wanker. Im a supporter of Israel, but that does not mean everything they do is righteous. thge inability to accept criticism or suggestion of any kind is not a great characteristic of Israelis. Avram's attitude towards justice is appalling and the very reason why the violence continues. The camps the Israelis run may not be anything like the nazi Death Camps but they still do not win praise. You do not have to be a Hamas supporter to criticise Israel. You only have to ahve the ability to think outside your prejudices. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:50pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:14pm:
but you are an idiot and you cant even define 'em' at any point with any precision or confidence. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:53pm Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:33pm:
ditto. the trouble is while there is little chance of a peace-seeking Israeli, there is ZERO chance of a pan-arabic statesman genuinely wanting peace. it is not the formula for peace. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jul 1st, 2013 at 8:20pm
Test
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Lionel Edriess on Jul 1st, 2013 at 9:01pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:13pm:
One supposes then, that you have no objection to the religious-sanctioned killing that is spreading across the globe like algae on a pond? After all, there is not a 'state' behind such actions, is there? No, indeed! Just a socio-religious entity that denies any such actions by blaming atrocity on other 'factions' of their belief system whilst decrying 'misinterpretation' of the 'universal' religion of peace. Right. That's OK, then. ;D Instead of putting people like Dahmer and Milat out of their misery, we'll just go ahead and assassinate young girls dancing in the rain - while wearing their mandatory religious coverings. Takes all kinds, I s'pose. :-? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jul 1st, 2013 at 9:08pm Lionel Edriess wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 9:01pm:
Mr Peccary's comment accords with your view, Mr Endriess. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 1st, 2013 at 9:22pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:53pm:
My 25 comments are ignored stating I am the new generation who supports peace. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 1st, 2013 at 9:30pm Quote:
My grandfather leaves Majdanek Nazi Camp after liberation by the Soviets. He is the only male and with his sister he finds later are just two from family of 12 who remain. He goes from Europe to the new land of Israel. This is the reason we do not accept the criticism from longweekend and the accusations to us. We will never be in a weak position again. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jul 1st, 2013 at 9:34pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 9:22pm:
Rubbish...you are the bloke who would wreck any chance of peace in the futile search for 'vengeance.' How about a bit of 'turn the other cheek?' |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 1st, 2013 at 9:37pm
No.
If we had a partner for peace then I would support giving up of land in exchange for real peace from them. We negotiate from stronger position but in genuine nature for peace hopes. But of course any attack on our people is returned. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 10:02pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 9:22pm:
You lying piece of poo. Your entire world revolves around vengeance. If you want peace, stop with the "we must avenge them" childish nonsense. You are a war mongering, lying piece of poo. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jul 1st, 2013 at 10:05pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 9:37pm:
You might think you are in a position of strength locally, and it is true you have some powerful international friends, but let me tell you Mr Israel, I'll be buggered if I would want to see any Aussie blood shed to help you on your pissant pursuit of 'Statehood' in 'Arabia' and petty vengeance. In fact, just so you know in fairness to you, I have said here and elsewhere loud and long that creating an artificial State for a gathering of people of one faith was a mistake, one the Planet will pay for dearly sooner or later. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Jasignature on Jul 1st, 2013 at 10:11pm
Israel is no longer a 'Religion'
-its a Military act ! They dropped the Book and now carry a Gun. Judaism is a lie. Not only that. Military 'culture' emanates from South America via the Conquistadors which constitute an internal disengagement, like the Aborigines of OZ and the Amerindians of North America. ...So that means that ISRAEL is being MILITARY on behalf of South America as a 'entity' abroad. Judaism is the ultimate lie that oppresses Moslems whose only means of defence is to 'outbreed' and keep throwing Zombie sacrifices in their thousands. Judaism 'exiled' itself from the Garden of the Middle-East. ISRAEL IS A LIE. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Lionel Edriess on Jul 1st, 2013 at 10:22pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 9:30pm:
I hear you. It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 10:11pm:
I also see what you are facing here. And here's me thinking that the shades of my forefathers rested easy after giving their all in the defence against tyranny. What a fool am I! |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jul 1st, 2013 at 10:25pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 9:30pm:
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jul 1st, 2013 at 10:28pm Quote:
If you insist......... |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 10:40pm Lionel Edriess wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 9:01pm:
I'm not sure why you support something like that. You are one very sick puppy. Get some help. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Lionel Edriess on Jul 1st, 2013 at 10:45pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 10:40pm:
Out of context - and obviously irony is something grammar used to do. Have a nice day. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jul 1st, 2013 at 10:46pm
he doesnt get it Lionel, he never does.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 1st, 2013 at 10:47pm Lionel Edriess wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 10:45pm:
You're a sick pup. Go away. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Lionel Edriess on Jul 1st, 2013 at 10:49pm ian wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 10:46pm:
I can see that. 8-) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jul 1st, 2013 at 10:50pm Lionel Edriess wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 10:45pm:
You made your point very, very poorly Mt Endreiss, so much so that Mr Peccary was unable to see that you were actually in agreement with him. You were in agreement with him, weren't you? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Aussie on Jul 1st, 2013 at 10:51pm
Bump One.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 9:31am Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 9:22pm:
Maybe because every post talks about killing and vengeance. Your words say violence yet you want to be thought of as peaceful. It does not compute! |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 10:08am Aussie wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 10:05pm:
All nation states are artificial, borders move, ethnicity changes, political allegiances ebb and flow, why should israel be held to a different standard than the rest of us? And as for gathering people of one faith, having a bunch of christians lob in to sydney harbour fill that requirement too, are you demanding we and many other people leave where we are or are you only demanding the Jews bugger off from their homeland. I wouldn't get all finger pointy if I were you. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 10:14am longweekend58 wrote on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 9:31am:
He's obsessed with vengeance. "Death penalty provides vengeance and justice." "Never let a act go unavenged." "Vengeance is not disgusting but it is natural justice of correcting a wrong." "However my views on death penalty and necessary vengeance ?" "Every act shall be avenged." "The principle of vengeance is the same all over the world." "Tell me why you would expect an act to go unavenged? I don't understand why you would accept it." |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 10:40am longweekend58 wrote on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 9:31am:
Ready for peace. Prepared for war. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 10:58am Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 10:40am:
Hardly. "Never let a act go unavenged." "Vengeance is not disgusting but it is natural justice of correcting a wrong." "Every act shall be avenged." |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 11:18am
There is no difference in being ready for peace and not prepared to accept attacks on your people.
You can be ready to deal for peace and at same time stand strong vs. terrorism. A attack on one Jew is a attack on us all. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 11:23am Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 10:40am:
'Killing for peace' Should be your national slogan. Definitely should be your personal one. I understand defence. I understand deterrence. But it appears you relish too much the killing and show such little regard for innocents caught up in it. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 11:31am
There is no enjoyment of killing (if i have read relish correctly the term relish).
I myself have always always always tried to avoid cross firing of civilians and innocents of course. I dont know why you say this otherwise. You can be prepared for peace, be strong for war and make the situation as safe for your people as you can. This should be a lesson for everyone. Look after your people and do the right thing for them. Death penalty for me is a very important aspect of safety in the community and just retribution for crimes committed. Not innocents at all. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 11:48am Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 11:31am:
as has been stated time and time again, it is not possible for the DP to be applied without error. That is one of is major objections. And given that it INCREASES violent crime slightly it is hardly a public safety policy. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 11:54am
of course there are errors.
But i accept this is as part of it and the state must make sure it does not make too many of them. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 12:00pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 11:31am:
They say this because they have a pretty p1ss weak argument otherwise. Remember neither of these two have suffered any real adversity and this extended softness has allowed them to see the world as right (everything they say and believe) and wrong (anyone who doesn't agree with them). Anyone who believes if Israel stopped actively defending itself would cause the arab states to drop their grudges and embrace your act of openness (weakness). There would be tanks rolling across the desert within weeks to eliminate Israel. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 12:06pm
bigol - i have seen ak47 fire land just 1m in front of me.
i have seen a petrol bomb land and catch my boot on fire. i have seen crowds try to draw us in to come into the line of the snipers in the high rises. My views come from these experiences. My views come from my people's experiences. My views are if these people - and i speak of any here - want to kill people then they themselves are to be removed. They make the choice. My opinions on death penalty is the same as the security of my land - which longweekend has bringed this point into it - even though it does not have 100% relevance. The situation for me - death penalty - if you take someone life, you yourself lose your right to live. security at home - strong position, strong defence. Offer peace, offer friendship. If they want peace we want it too. If they want war and aggression - let them bring it and we will beat them again. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 12:17pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 11:54am:
so it is okay for you that innocent people are executed as long as everyone 'tries real hard'? But by your own logic that every evil must be avenged then arent the family of the wrongly executed perfectly within their rights to kill the prosecutor, judge and jury as well as the actual executioner? That is the message you are giving. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 2:27pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 12:17pm:
His message is one of perpetual vengeance and killing. Hopeless. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Peter Freedman on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 3:31pm
Avram you are not silly.
Do you not understand that so long as you seek vengeance, and your enemy seeks vengeance the killing will never end? Is that the legacy you want to leave your children? Don't you realise there has to be another way? And don't tell me it's up to the Arabs, or I'll get angry with you. Shalom, my friend. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 3:34pm
flip
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 4:10pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 2:27pm:
It must be so fulfilling to be able to pass judgement on others in war torn countries from the safety of your safe little house, in your safe little suburb, in your safe little city in your safe little country. Maybe if you lived in a country where half a dozen other countries are hell bent on wiping you off the face of the earth, you might not be such a self serving wanker. But that is just my opinion. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 4:14pm BigOl64 wrote on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 4:10pm:
Careful with those insults BigOl. I didn't report it. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 4:38pm BigOl64 wrote on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 4:10pm:
Exactly. And it's worth even less than Avram's. Not sure why you bothered. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 4:40pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 3:31pm:
The answer is "no". He quite simply does not understand how destructive and negative his vengeance is. It's sad. It really is. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 5:21pm BigOl64 wrote on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 4:10pm:
it is true that we sit in the spectator seats but at the same time, it is also true that spectators see things that participants never do. Israel is certainly treated badly by the countiries round about them but at the same time their own actions - while mainly justified - are not actions seeking peace. I dont know what the solution to it all is but I do know that endless killing of each other is certainly NOT the solution. But what grates on most of us is Avram's insistence that his generation 'is for peace' while insisting that every act must be avenged and people killed. Even the fundamental insistence that the innocent shoudl not be killed is not treated as all that important. THAT is the issue here. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 5:30pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 4:38pm:
But you still feel the need to reply, no cretinous gif to explain your thoughts though. Unless you reintroduce the cretinous gifs I feel you wasting everyone's time, it is the only worthwhile thing you have to offer in this or any other thread. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 6:37pm BigOl64 wrote on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 5:30pm:
Nope. Still not sure why you bothered. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by pansi1951 on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 11:31am Peter Freedman wrote on Jul 1st, 2013 at 7:30pm:
Good post Peter. You and many other Jewish people are ashamed of Israel's treatment of the people of Palestine, that's why we shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush. There are plenty of Jews living in Israel that have a conscience. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 11:37am
The poll is 50/50.
I am surprised as I though most people would like a good hanging? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 12:12pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 2nd, 2013 at 6:37pm:
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 1:22pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 11:37am:
50/50? Hmmm. "Australians say penalty for murder should be Imprisonment (64%) rather than the Death Penalty (23%)" http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/finding-4411-201302260051 |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 2:23pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 1:22pm:
I am not surprised - we can't even get euthanasia through parliament - people who are vegetables with no chance of ever living a normal life can't end their days with dignity. We have a culture that denies death. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 4:41pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 2:23pm:
and you want one that embraces and adores it. maybe the DP for poofs?? thats the end of you and nail then. In Iran it is the case and Uganda too I think. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 5:43pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 1:22pm:
Even though bobby was not even referring to this poll the link is interesting. 50% of Australian are keen for other countries to kill Australians for crimes a lot less neferious than murder. Kinda odd attitude toward the DP. Save a murderer but kill a trafficker Australians still support the tough penalties for drug trafficking in many South-East Asian countries like Malaysia and Singapore with 50% (down 11%) of Australians agreeing that If an Australian is convicted of trafficking drugs in another country and sentenced to death, the penalty should be carried out while 44% (up 9%) say the death penalty should not be carried out and 6% (up 2%) cant say. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 6:06pm
...
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 6:37pm
Avenging the deaths of people and justice can be exactly the same thing.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Lionel Edriess on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 8:34pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 6:37pm:
We should take lessons from nature. If you place rats in an enclosed environment that provides sufficient food and water to support all rats born into that environment, they begin to cannibalise their own until they reach a 'sustainable' population. You want to know what triggers that behaviour? Personal space! We have a lot to learn about our own intrinsic, and instinctive, reactions about modern, crowded, divisive societies. The research is out there! Homo Sapiens doesn't like crowds. Civilisation is but a thin veneer on our limbic system. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 8:57pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 4:41pm:
Longweekend, How dare you suggest again this poofter slur. You're just a flamer & a troll. If you do it once more I will report you. The death penalty should only be for: murder rape theft pedophilia terrorism |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Lionel Edriess on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 9:57pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 8:57pm:
A long list there, Bobby. I'd prefer to have the definitions of some crime changed. The murder and rape of Jill Meagher, for example. This is the type of criminal offence that I would like to see classified as 'terrorism'. To my way of thinking, this young woman was not 'merely' killed, she was also subjected to what I would term as terrorism. She probably felt the same in her last few conscious moments. Penalty for terrorism - death! Ivan Milat was not a murderer, he was a terrorist. He should pay the penalty. Geoffrey Dahmer was not a murderer, he was a terrorist. You walk up to a car and shoot a bloke in the front seat - murder. You steal someone off the street, kicking and screaming - you hi-jack someone from their home - you kidnap someone or keep someone hostage ...... that's terrorism. It's the treatment of the victim that should define the crime. The penalty for terrorism - death. Simple murder - a looooong stretch. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 10:17pm Lionel Edriess wrote on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 9:57pm:
I think my list is good enough but I see your point. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 4th, 2013 at 7:11am Bobby. wrote on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 8:57pm:
"theft"? Seriously? All theft? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 9:27am greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 7:11am:
Not stealing a candy bar from the shop. Big time theft. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:09am Bobby. wrote on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 8:57pm:
so.. stealing a loaf of bread gets the death penatly? And since terrorism has ben expanded to include such acts as burning down an empty building perhap you might want to redefine that as well. And pedophilis is a STATE, not an action. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:11am Lionel Edriess wrote on Jul 3rd, 2013 at 9:57pm:
oh goodie... let's now change the definition of terrorism so that it too can be meaningless along with sexism, racism and even rape and assault. All these words have such a wide range of meanings that out of context (such as bobbys list) they mean nothing. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:12am Bobby. wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 9:27am:
so wonderfully expanded. so you mean an entire shopping trolley of food and not just bread?? idiot. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:15am longweekend58 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:12am:
What about embezzlers who steal $millions from a business due to their gambling addiction - cause that business to go bankrupt - then get maybe 2 years jail & the money is never repaid? Is that fair? I say - hang em high as a deterrent to others. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:15am longweekend58 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:09am:
Somehow, I don't think that fact would change bobby's mind. He seems to be pretty loose with the noose. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:17am Bobby. wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:15am:
Just because something isn't "fair", it doesn't mean the only solution is premeditated state-sanctioned killing. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:19am greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:15am:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia Quote:
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:20am Quote:
It would clean up society. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:22am Bobby. wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:19am:
Yes bobby, it's not an act. You want to kill people because of an attraction. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:23am longweekend58 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:09am:
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:24am greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:22am:
If a pedophile sodomized your child you'd want to kill them. Just admit it. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:26am
Anyone who thinks pedophilia is just an "attraction" is either attempting to normalise this type of behaviour for thier own vested interests or severely uneducated on the matter.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:31am longweekend58 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:09am:
Another argument 'won' using semantics How about child rape, actiony enough for ya? How about we execute them instead of our current action of ensuring they do as little time as possible before setting them free to carry on with their lives. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:33am BigOl64 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:31am:
It's not semantics at all. Anyone with half a brain would understand that. Easy to see how you were confused though. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:38am
The english language is not defined by Latin or Greek scientific terms but instead by how people commonly use words. In this case we know when some talks about someone being a pedophile it is obvious we are talking about the actions associated with the state, that is the common use of the term. Simply becasue this has to be explained to you Greggary gives you the ongoing honour of being dunce of the day, an award you have won almost every day for the last month on this forum. Keep up the good work.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:39am Bobby. wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:24am:
Absolutely. I have no problem whatsoever admitting that. However, it doesn't give me the right to do it. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:40am ian wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:38am:
Did you learn that while you were on maternity leave? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:41am BigOl64 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:31am:
Yes, because pedophiles can never be cured as anyone with any experience with these people knows and the problem with giving them definable prison sentences is they inevitably get out to reoffend again. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:42am greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:39am:
Or the balls, I suspect. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:43am greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:39am:
But if we all get together & agree on the DP then maybe we can have a referendum to get the justice we all crave for? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:45am ian wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:42am:
Interesting fact: people on maternity leave don't have balls. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:46am greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:33am:
Good thing you purposely left out half of my reply, otherwise your post would look really moronic. You and longy are just desperate, we're all just waiting for you to run off and find some new gifs to fill in for actual debate. Must getting close. BTW I do know the difference between a paedophile and a child rapist (usually opportunity) and I do know the terms are regularly interchanged and I do know what is meant when people request the paedophiles are executed. It's not that hard to think beyond desperate attempts at winning an argument solely on identifying issues of semantics. But if pathetic is all you have, then that's all you have oh that and gifs, we really like the gifs. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:55am Bobby. wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:43am:
We all crave justice: no argument there bobby. However, we don't all crave the same type of "justice". I support your referendum idea. The results would be interesting. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 11:05am greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:55am:
Thanks Greg, So far the vote here is 50/50. That's not encouraging but shows that half of all people here are fed up with scum who run our streets & want them taken out of the equation. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jul 4th, 2013 at 11:42am greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:45am:
But still pobably more than you. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 4th, 2013 at 11:43am Bobby. wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 11:05am:
6 people out of 13. I don't like your chances bobby. And of course, you have this little hurdle to get over: http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2010A00037 |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jul 4th, 2013 at 11:55am
Ok, we need a law enabling the victims of such acts or victims families to act with impuinity if summarily dispensing their own justice. i.e. you fiddle with my child, i kill you. No legal consequences.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:10pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 11:43am:
Laws were made to be changed but none have the Pollys have any balls. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:15pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:15am:
and loose with the facts. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:17pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:19am:
apart from the credibility issue with a wiki link, which part of that essentially accurate definition involves sexual offending and therefore my actual POINT? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:19pm ian wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:23am:
there are cleverer and more observant people than you in society (thankfully). Paedophilia is identified often in NON-OFFENDERS, some of whom seek help in ensuring that they dont offend. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:21pm ian wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:26am:
'severely uneducated' is your area of expertise, not ours. just as you are attracted to (presumably) girls, so paedos are attracted to children. None of this means that there is any sexual interaction just like how you are yet to have a sexual interaction with another person. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:22pm
Just hang them.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:22pm ian wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:38am:
so wrong, so often. You should be executed simply for your idiocy and in case you get the unlikely proposition to breed. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:25pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:19pm:
Wrong, rarely identified in non offenders. Do you really think that these people stick their hands up for treatment which doesnt exist? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:28pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:21pm:
wrong, here you go trying to normalise these deviants. Physical sexual interaction is not the only way these people offend or harm children, simply viewing child pornography is not only an offense but harmful to children. Or are you going to argue that viewing child pron is harmless? we can go down that road if you want. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:30pm ian wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:41am:
NO paraphilia can be 'cured', dimwit. and this IS my area of expertise being a recognised expert on a particular paraphilia. It is always about developing better thinking patterns, recognising unacceptable thinking and actions and building up strong, secure personal boundaries to prevent unacceptable or illegal behaviours. And of course, attempting to redirecet at least part of the sexual desire to safer outlets. that is how REAL people in the REAL word work with REAL subjects for REAL outcomes. You just want to kill anyone not to your liking. And it isnt just pedos is it? I bet not long ago you would be calling for the execution of gays and lesbians. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:30pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:43am:
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:33pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:30pm:
Longweekend, what should be the correct punishment for pedophiles? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:34pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:30pm:
Doesnt work, dimwit, not one success without castration. And even then thats not for sure. You sound like one of those social workers these people are always manipulating. recognised expert, pigs arse. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:35pm ian wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:28pm:
some 50 years ago child porn was legal in parts of europe and this magazines and photos still circulate the internet. If you want to make the proposition that viewing these images harm current children then go ahead an make a fool of yourself. Im not defending CP or its downloading but the 1:1 relationship between a photo and child harm is rather ludicrous. it appeals to politicians pandering to stupid people like yourself but psychologists actually working in the field say the very opposite. They aer the people on the frontier of this problem and know what is the ACTUAL problem and not some made-up simplistic excuse such as you come up with. There was a study that concluded that nearly 10% of the canadian population had viewed some form of child porn. do you want to now maintain that 10%+ are paedophiles? I realise all the above vastly exceeds your ability to understand and was written for the benefit of your betters which amazingly enough even includes booby. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:38pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:33pm:
I am a believer in the correct use of words and terminology and will continue to do so even in the face of illerates and bogans. there should be NO PENALTY for paedophilia. However there should be a range of penalties for actual sex offenders against children. Strangely enough, that is exactly how the law operates at present. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:39pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:38pm:
Ok Longy, so you're happy that pedophiles are let back out on the street to re-offend? ( after a bit of jail time) I bet you wouldn't say that if one of them sodomized your child? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:40pm ian wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:34pm:
prove that it doesnt work. Do you have any idea how many sex offenders are actual paedos? real answer is very few. The majority of paedos or those close to the definition DONT OFFEND. you have an awfully simplistic view of the world and justice. you also have next to no real life experience in any field. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:42pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:39pm:
it is almost as if u cannot read. You certainly cannot understand what has been written. You live in abject FEAR of anything you cannot control or understand which is apparently, quite a lot. Explaining these things to you is a waste of time because you are too stupid to understand or at the very least, unwilling. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:45pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:42pm:
Longy, Just answer the simple questions above. Instead you resort to abuse. You're worse than a politician. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:48pm
Longweekend, The existence of child porn harms children, by its existence it reinforces to whoever views it that this is normal behaviour and also perpetuates this behaviour.Just like you are doing now. Sounds like you have a vested interest in attemting to argue that this behaviour is normal. I can see that you have a lot of "pro pedophile" arguments. you have obviously researched these arguments very well. I often hear them from offenders myself. They think they can manipulate, many times they fool the psyches, and nearly always the social workers. But almost never the people who work with these people on a daily basis, we know what they are, another form of predator. They are sociopaths and they are chameleons. This is how they go about their filthy business sometimes for decades without any long term incarceration. They fool the psyches into thinking behaviour modification and groupo therapy and ever other bit of nonsense invented by these "professionals" is working. Becasue these professionals want to pat themselves on the back, they dont want to admit that their treatments dont work, because they cant work. And then, inevitably the predators reoffend. In every case. Anyone lacking the normal form of empathy towards children definitely is a sociopath. And to even think about being involved in a sexual act with a child means they lack this essential bit of empathy which makes us human. these people are not human.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:50pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:45pm:
you personalise EVERYTHING because you lack the capacity to reason by principle. Im not going to enable your intellectual deficiencies further by pandering to your never-ending sideshow of deflections. You do so because you simply dont understand the question being discussed here.There have been societies in the past that have executed the stupid. would you want that situatiuon? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:51pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:35pm:
Show me the study, you keep claiming but offer no evidence. Most of what you claim I have proved is nonsense. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:52pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:50pm:
Id go for the perpetuators first. you would get a double whammy. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:54pm ian wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:48pm:
I agree, hang em high with a sign around their neck saying pedophile. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:54pm ian wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:48pm:
everytime you post you demonstrate how little you really know. You live in fear of something that is not true. The world is not fully of sociopathic super-intelligent pedophiles. I doubt very much that you've spoken to a single offender ever. Because what you are saying flies in the face of the evidence. All you have done in this thread is demand that someone dies. it is all about killing to you and if you were interviewed by me for my research Id be giving you a few questionnaires to elict the basis of your sublimated violence and hatred. and I will bet my bottom dollar you wet your bed into your teens. It is a common trait in those like you. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:55pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:50pm:
What deflection? ( By the way - you can't spell. ) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 1:03pm
bump
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Socrates on Jul 4th, 2013 at 1:03pm Quote:
Absolutely, particularly as all Laborites are stupid.... ;D ;D :D |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 1:04pm
bump again - page won't flip
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 1:46pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:54pm:
Attacking those you want to educate; but then who really wants to be educated to be pro-paedophile. Look no harm can come form double tapping child rapists; get in, get it done, every one's happy. And I say that without any hate, in fact the killing of child rapists fills me with indifference for their plight. Well maybe a little bit of happiness, but mostly indifference. ;D I'm impressed you still have your pro-peado / child rapist argument so refined since the last time you trotted out this drivel. Still don't believe it and still anti-peado, better luck next time hey. :) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jul 4th, 2013 at 1:48pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:54pm:
Nobody called these people super intelligent and no one said the world is full of them, those are your words.You are trying to divert. I also dont have any "sublimated "violent tendencies. you have no idea what my personality profile is, unlike yourself I dont give that away on internet forums. Where are the stats on your claim that 10 percent of Canadians view child porn. Still waiting. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 1:50pm
BigOl,
Quote:
I agree BigOl, hang all convicted pedophiles. Get rid of this filth. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jul 4th, 2013 at 2:55pm
Longtalltales, you have made a number of claims in this thread and are yet to supply any substance for any of them. 2 in particular I would wish to have stats for. The first is your claim that most pedophiles are diagnosed without actioning their desires. The 2nd is that 10 percent of Canadians view child porn.I find both of these claims extraordinary and serving only to try and attempt to normalise these pedophiles within mainstream society. However, I am prepared to look at any evidence that can be supplied. I alos find it quite extraordinary that you claim to be an expert in this field of research but cannot supply the evidence for your claims, surely an expert would have links or sources of some sort.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by GA on Jul 4th, 2013 at 3:12pm Lord Herbert wrote on Jun 27th, 2013 at 3:07pm:
The problem is that penalties are handed out by the judiciary. They are legal decisions, when they shouldn't be. It should be ethicists and psychiatrists that decide the penalty, including whether justice is being done by executing murderers. Another example of unnecessary injustice would be in the sentencing to death of Leslie Van Houten for her part in the murders carried out by the Manson family. She narrowly escaped the death sentence, but is still rotting away in jail for a crime that she was as much as a victim of, herself. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 4th, 2013 at 3:49pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:15pm:
That's the standard MO for the DP mob. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 4:07pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 12:45pm:
nope, I am sticking to the topic which is something you cannot do. Because your mind is so small you cannot formulate an opinion or policy based on principle - just actions you see or think about. IN complex issues like this your opinion is worthless because you lack the capacity to extrapolate from one criminal activity to the entire subject of justice. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 4:11pm BigOl64 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 1:46pm:
unfortunately, you also possess an exceptional indifference to innocence vs guilt. There have been plenty of examples of convicted child abusers who were later found to have been convicted without any evidence and proof of their innocence hidden from the defence and jury. IN your world of hate and killing they would be dead and what is worse, you wouldnt even care. AS long as people die you are happy. Their guilt is just an added but optional bonus. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 4:13pm ian wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 2:55pm:
why don't you actually do your own research you pitiful wimp. IM not going to waste my time doing it because you have already shown that you will not accept as evidence anything that contradicts your opinion. That was demonstrated when you refused to accepted the Singapore Law Society's article on Singapore law. I could find researcher after psychiatrist after psychologist and you would simply say it isnt true. Why would I bother with a twit like you? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 4:14pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 1:50pm:
:) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 4th, 2013 at 9:27pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 4:13pm:
There's no reason at all to bother, Longy. This is the guy who would only accept evidence from a Singapore Government website showing that Singapore does not follow due process. I'm sure there are better examples of stupidity and naivety on this forum, however, I haven't seen them yet. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by greggerypeccary on Jul 4th, 2013 at 9:28pm
flip
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by corporate_whitey on Jul 4th, 2013 at 9:49pm
Yes its only a matter of timebefore the right wing have the execution channel on foxtel and ppv and have people fighting to the death for public entertainment. The next logical step is killing Christians for fun... 8-)
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:47pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 4:07pm:
Longloser, My questions are still valid. They place the truth of what is happening right in your face. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by ian on Jul 5th, 2013 at 12:16am greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 9:27pm:
of course, why should we be surprised you are one of the pro pedophile posters. Maybe you and Longy can get togerther and compare notes on how pedophiles are only that way because they didnt get enough hugs when they were children. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 5th, 2013 at 1:06am Quote:
Still no answer. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 5th, 2013 at 6:28am corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 9:49pm:
Now that does sound like fun - lets get it happening! SOB |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jul 5th, 2013 at 7:07am longweekend58 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 4:11pm:
Jeez I nearly started crying for the innocent child rapists then. I don't recall demanding innocence child rapists be executed, must be another semantics thing. There are more than enough of your mates with more than a few convictions walking the streets, they would be excellent candidates for a double tap. Or are you going to argue that these poor innocent child rapist have been successfully convicted on multiple occasions based on false evidence too. Nice diversionary tactics, but no prize for you. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by warrigal on Jul 5th, 2013 at 7:12am
:)
BigOl64 wrote on Jul 5th, 2013 at 7:07am:
:) :) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by warrigal on Jul 5th, 2013 at 7:15am
47 pages, worst then Jill Magher lessons topic, still the same hatred, maybe you all didn't get enough hugs as children.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 5th, 2013 at 10:29am Bobby. wrote on Jul 5th, 2013 at 1:06am:
When will his highness reply? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 5th, 2013 at 12:27pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:47pm:
they are not valid at all. this is a discussion on the DP - a PRINCIPLE-BASED debate. specific examples merely serve to deflect or introduce emotive issues into a discussion which simply MUST be devoid of emotion... Remember, that is one of the underlying principles of Justice! |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by longweekend58 on Jul 5th, 2013 at 12:30pm BigOl64 wrote on Jul 5th, 2013 at 7:07am:
i don't recall you giving the concept of innocence must emphasis. You want executions but dont show a lot of interest in the falsely convicted. The innocent are not simply the victims; they include everyone innocent of committing the crime as well. It is a distinction violent, blood-lusting sods like you rarely understand. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 5th, 2013 at 12:33pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 5th, 2013 at 10:29am:
He always avoids the answers - he's worse than JuLiar Gillard. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 5th, 2013 at 12:40pm
The crime list so far for the death penalty is:
murderers rapists thieves pedophiles terrorists Are there any more offences that we should add to the list? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 5th, 2013 at 12:40pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 5th, 2013 at 12:33pm:
bump |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 5th, 2013 at 12:41pm
bump page wouldn't flip
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 5th, 2013 at 12:41pm
bump page wouldn't flip
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 5th, 2013 at 12:42pm
bump page wouldn't flip
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jul 5th, 2013 at 12:53pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 5th, 2013 at 12:30pm:
Innocent child rapist don't have multiple convictions with multiple child victims, so it shouldn't be too hard to see who is worthy of a double tap and who is not In fact an active child rapist would be the easiest of the scumbags that crawl along this planet to set aside for that special needle, and even an apologist like you couldn't argue their supposed innocence. But look who I'm talking about here, you could argue the innocence of a child rapist even if you were watching them commit the crime. Murderers usually kill only once and yes there is a extremely small chance of wrongful conviction; child rapist however, commit their entire lives to their pursuit, with hundreds of victims in their wake. There will be no mistake when necking these little pigs. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 5th, 2013 at 1:08pm
Adrian Ernest Bayley raped 22 women & killed Jill Meagher.
If he was hanged after the first rape 21 other women could have been saved as well as Jill's life. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jul 5th, 2013 at 2:13pm
.
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by BigOl64 on Jul 5th, 2013 at 2:33pm
frig this is annoying
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by PZ547 on Jul 5th, 2013 at 2:53pm
Watched a doco on Youtube last night. Guy killed five people for no apparent reason
He was sentenced to death Eighteen years of it with his mother devoting all of it (and the lives of her immediate and extended family) to getting the killer off. ' Don't kill my son. He was such a good little boy, such a loving little boy' etc The killer was more philosophical when interviewed on the eve of his execution. His lawyers tried the 'insanity' plea right to the end. When asked by tv crew if he was guilty, the killer said 'yes'. When asked if he was insane, he said 'No'. At the last gasp, teams of psychiatrists again assessed him and unanimously reached the conclusion he was sane enough to be executed and had been basically sane when he killed five people When there was a last-minute stay of execution, the killer was disappointed at the same time his mother was whooping it up joyously for the media Finally they executed him. Eighteen years of argy bargy and dozens of lives close to ruined, not counting the five lives he ended Sure, every now and then the law makes a mistake and an innocent is imprisoned for the term of natural life. Just as in the past, going right back through time, innocent people have been executed by the law. But these are the small minority. And using them as justification, Commonwealth countries abolished the death penalty without a referendum and despite that overwhelmingly, the majority want a return to the death penalty. In fact, in the UK right now, MPs are arguing for a return of the death penalty Women are killed in so called 'honour killings' every day of the week. Still more are permanently disfigured by temper tantrum acid attacks. Motor vehicles kill thousands each year, worldwide as do drug overdoses, falling from balconies, phony wars for profit -- and let's not forget the tens of thousands in each nation on earth who're killed by doctors and Big Medicine Yet people fuss around about a few executed, usually guilty, prisoners. Tens of millions of dollars are wasted via trials, appeals, etc. We're all going to die. Some people seem to think it's a movie and unless something 'really awful' happens, everyone will live if not forever, then 'for a long, long time' I've no problems with a return to the death penalty when there's a confession in black and white and video I have a real problems with corrupt judges and legal beagles who put scum back on the streets. And a similar issue with conveniently anonymous parole board members who do the same thing Anyway, Sharia rule will become fact for Commonwealth slaves soon, apparently -- and with it the death penalty |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty is still drawin' a crowd... Post by bobbythebat1 on Jul 5th, 2013 at 6:58pm
Good post PZ547.
What about the list for the DP?: murderers rapists thieves pedophiles terrorists Are there any more offences that we should add to the list? |
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