Fears for lost generation of jobless youth

Date
    June 30, 2013



Latest Australian Bureau of Statistics figures show job vacancies have fallen in 15 out of 18 industries.

Australia is running the risk of creating its own European-style ''lost generation'' of youth, with unemployment rates for young people in some parts of Melbourne and Sydney running at almost four times the national average.      :(

In Melbourne's outer west, one in five people aged between 15 and 24 are trying to find work. Lucas Walsh, associate dean at Monash University's education faculty, said it was deplorable given Australia's stable economy.

''Youth unemployment is at an unacceptable level,'' he said. ''The reason why it's unacceptable is … we are in the longest period of unbroken economic growth we have experienced in this country. Adult unemployment is extremely low. Are these employment opportunities being passed on to teenagers? No, they are not.''

He said cuts to vocational education and training organisations had reduced employment options for young people.      :(    


Further, those in disadvantaged areas do not have the same social or professional connections as those in wealthier suburbs. The youth unemployment rate in Sydney's east is only 4.1 per cent, while Canterbury-Bankstown in the west is the city's worst-affected area, with an unemployment rate of 19.1 per cent for people aged 15-24. The national youth unemployment rate is 11.6 per cent, compared with a national unemployment rate of 5.5 per cent.      :(

Phil Lewis, of the University of Canberra's Centre for Labour Market Research, said the concentration of young unemployed was concerning.

''The reason youth unemployment is concentrated in particular suburbs is because these young people tend to live with their parents,'' he said. ''There are often higher levels of unemployment among the parents and lower levels of education. In the richer suburbs there is a culture. The parents were probably well-educated. The expectation is that young people will go on to further study.''

Changes to Australia's job market mean blue-collar jobs such as manufacturing are declining.      :(

''People without skills may have been able to get a job in a factory or on the railways in the past but those jobs don't exist any more,'' he said. ''With the structural change to the economy you really have to have an education to get into the labour market.''

Latest Australian Bureau of Statistics figures show job vacancies have fallen in 15 out of 18 industries. More than 687,700 Australians were looking for work last month, up from 624,900 in May 2012. In Victoria, there were five unemployed for every vacancy. ''It's a complex problem,'' said Damian Oliver, of Sydney University's Workplace Research Centre. ''It's important to boost post-school education and training, so there needs to be investment at that level but that doesn't create jobs. It doesn't do much for those young people who are starting from much further behind and don't have those direct pathways into work.''

The long-term unemployed are at risk of ending up like the ''lost generation'' of Europe's jobless youth, he said.

''The reason why youth unemployment is such an urgent policy issue is that if young people miss the opportunity of a good start in the labour market, it just gets harder and harder every day, every week, every month, every year they can't get their first job and get that foothold.''


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/fears-for-lost-generation-of-jobless-youth-20130629-2p465.html#ixzz2XdqjvqaZ

since when has 15 b een the working age?? I thought that went out 40 years ago..

didnt the gillard govt pay parents to keep their 16/17 years olds in school longer????

I dont get it... 15 seems like child labour to me.

What happened to the million jobs Rullard/Giludd created?

Don't blame the young people for not working, blame yourselves, you were greedy, you wanted 7/8 of the cake, the selfish generation who stole the future of gen x and gen y.

We are in the same position as most of Europe, for example, Spain, Italy and even Germany has 35% youth unemployment, the US and the UK.

The greedy baby boomers literally sold out the next generation, they betrayed the youth of their own country. They stole their children's future.

Please Just bugger Off, It's Our Turn Now
(Holding Baby Boomers to Account)

by Ryan Heath (ryanheath.com.au)

It's easy to read, according to my publishers it's "bitingly funny," (they would say that) but it is definitely controversial. A book you are going to love or hate, there is no sitting on the fence with this one.
Either way, it should make you change the way you think about Australia and all of the young people in it.

If you've ever wondered why you don't read more about young people who aren't Paris Hilton. If you're sick of not being able to buy a house or get a promotion despite your 20 years of education and working twice as hard as your boss – this book is what you need for inspiration, bitching material and the occasional answer.

It's not perfect, by any means, but it tries to put down in writing a positive view of people born after 1970 and lets rip into all the crap in Australia that frustrates so many of us. From Anne Summers to shallow Sydneysiders to boomers who think multiculturalism is an eating strategy – they're all taken down.

http://thedwarf.com.au/forum/topic/14289/please-just-f-off-its-our-turn-now

cods wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 7:48am:

since when has 15 b een the working age?? I thought that went out 40 years ago.. didnt the gillard govt pay parents to keep their 16/17 years olds in school longer???? I dont get it... 15 seems like child labour to me.

It's actually 14 and 9 months cods. Not everyone wants to be an academic and they shouldn't be forced to stay in school if it's not beneficial to them.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 8:13am:

cods wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 7:48am: since when has 15 b een the working age?? I thought that went out 40 years ago.. didnt the gillard govt pay parents to keep their 16/17 years olds in school longer???? I dont get it... 15 seems like child labour to me. It's actually 14 and 9 months cods. Not everyone wants to be an academic and they shouldn't be forced to stay in school if it's not beneficial to them.

have two grandsons that are working since they were 14.9months.. casual of course one in a 5 star Hotel in Canberra the other at Maccas.. very proud of them I am..I am not referring to that... I am referring to crook remarks.. about unemployed.,.. can a youth of 15 go on unemployment?????????????????????..

if not then they should not be counted as unemployed..

I am over job search/austudy/ and every other device they come up with to make the figures go away...dont know about you?

It would be interesting to know, how many unemployed people are not counted in the numbers.  I have asked the question many times, have I not?.  Whats the real unemployment number?.      :( 

Probably around 20% all round, and about 50% for youth.

The hidden unemployed

The official (seasonally adjusted) unemployment rate now stands at 5 per cent and there is talk again that Australia has virtually attained full employment. However, other labour market data released in March shows that the official figures hide the real extent of unemployment in Australia.  For example, while the number of unemployed at the moment is 604,800 people, the ABS survey of people not in the labour force shows that 1,292,400 of them want to work. Overall 1,897,200 do not have a job but want one.

Put another way, that means that less than a third of the people who want to work are actually defined as unemployed. If we include all those who want to work then the real unemployment rate should be 14.3 per cent of the workforce not 5 per cent.

To be recorded as unemployed by the ABS can actually be quite difficult for those who genuinely want to work. They have to have been ’actively looking for work’ in the previous month and even if they have been actively looking they must be available to start work almost immediately—within the same week they were surveyed.  That excludes many women with caring responsibilities who want to work but also have to find alternative care arrangements.

There is also a substantial level of underemployment which the ABS defines as people who ‘want, and are available for, more hours of work than they currently have’. A total of 833,800 people are underemployed at the moment. Taking account of those people, the real rate of unemployment plus underemployment rises to 20.5 per cent. The official unemployment rate is just the tip of the iceberg in Australia.


http://www.tai.org.au/?q=node/254

Brought to you by a government near you, on the basis of agenda and special interest group (SIG) driven politics:-

a.  The Stolen Generation of fatherless children who never get to know their family beyond their mother's lot.

b.  The Lost Generation of men under siege from violent and unwarranted gender war unleashed on these unsuspecting and naive persons who sought only for a good life and family

c.  The Lost Generation after Generation of young people who are unemployed and thus are increasingly unemployable and never will be.

For the incogniscenti - here it is again:-

https://sites.google.com/site/grappleruniversitypublications/home/department-of-irreverent-revolutionary-thought-dirt/money-divides

Argue the points if you wish - disparage it and you have nothing to contribute to the discussion...

Socio-fascism by any name or cover is still the same - the diktat of a few self-appointeds who consider that they, like the Russian intelligentia socialists pre-Revolution, are the elite and the rest of us are meaningless since we lack 'education' and the 'intellect' and 'knowledge' that they do in their arcane smoke-filled rooms of circular discussion...their concept of the People is themselves and their mates only, not YOU!

... and all the current wave of socio-fascists on BOTH sides of politics here have achieved for us all is greater and greater social divides and growing poverty for the many accompanied with massive privilege for the few... including them.

Let me add again - as a person with some connection with the intelligence community (as they know and will read again here) - there are people arming out there, and not for directly criminal enterprises - they are arming against Der Tag when they need to revolt......to take back their own asylum......

We, The People - NEED to become and remain the ultimate guard over the guard who guards us......that is our only hope........ :'(

The alternative is never-ending violence in one form or another.. ladies.. gentlemen .. failure is NOT an option this time around.

ADDS:-  Pansi hit it on the head - hidden unemployed is massive.  I'm a pensioner, looking for work constantly, and ready to start work imediately even if it means relocating - I've applied for international jobs -

'Asking only workman's wages,
I come looking for a job but I get no offers,
just a come-on from the whores on Seventh Avenue'....

ABS figures - even when I worked there (quit over AA by the way, as an unprincipled measure of calculated dicsrimination - but I've been over that - just another example of socio-fascism) -were a lie..... even Centrelink figures showed more recipients on dole than their figures showed unemployed....

You are employed if you work at all.... one hour a week at MacFries is the benchmark...

cods wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 7:48am:

since when has 15 b een the working age?? I thought that went out 40 years ago.. didnt the gillard govt pay parents to keep their 16/17 years olds in school longer???? I dont get it... 15 seems like child labour to me.

I agree. since when was the employment rate of 15-18yos of any consequence?  They should be in school and if they are not then perhaps the reason for their unemployment is that they are unskilled and probably untrainable.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 8:13am:

cods wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 7:48am: since when has 15 b een the working age?? I thought that went out 40 years ago.. didnt the gillard govt pay parents to keep their 16/17 years olds in school longer???? I dont get it... 15 seems like child labour to me. It's actually 14 and 9 months cods. Not everyone wants to be an academic and they shouldn't be forced to stay in school if it's not beneficial to them.

it is hardly 'being an academic' to pass year 9!  Perhaps their unemployment issues are related to a lack of education.  Exactly what jobs would a person with year 8 level education expect? 

Prime Minister

miketrees wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 6:47pm:

Prime Minister

while funny, the truth is that most MPs are very well educated.

Fears For Lost Generation Of Jobless Youth.

#####

Blame the Labor govt...now Rudd-Labor...they were/are the 'employment' and 'industrial relations/unions' party.
Just ask them, they'''l tell you.  :).

bambu wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 7:11pm:

Fears For Lost Generation Of Jobless Youth. ##### Blame the Labor govt...now Rudd-Labor...they were/are the 'employment' and 'industrial relations/unions' party. Just ask them, they'''l tell you.  :).

Aah, the blame game rightards love to play.

So what would Tony do about it? This problem is far more serious than asylum seekers and facile slogans like "stop the boats" won't cut it.

Peter Freedman wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 9:53am:

bambu wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 7:11pm: Fears For Lost Generation Of Jobless Youth. ##### Blame the Labor govt...now Rudd-Labor...they were/are the 'employment' and 'industrial relations/unions' party. Just ask them, they'''l tell you.  :). Aah, the blame game rightards love to play. So what would Tony do about it? This problem is far more serious than asylum seekers and facile slogans like "stop the boats" won't cut it.

No, they have other facile slogans like 'dole bludger' and 'never worked, never will' for this situation.

But again, facile slogans are all they have.

cods wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 7:48am:

since when has 15 b een the working age?? I thought that went out 40 years ago.. didnt the gillard govt pay parents to keep their 16/17 years olds in school longer???? I dont get it... 15 seems like child labour to me.

In WA, kids have to stay in school or training or approved work (or in a combination of approved options) until the end of the year in which they turn 17.

I agree: a 15 year old in full-time employment seems like child labour.

cods wrote on Jun 30^th, 2013 at 8:17am:

... can a youth of 15 go on unemployment?????????????????????..

To be eligible for Newstart Allowance one has to be at least 22 years old.

There is a Youth Allowance for 16 year olds, but there are some study requirements attached to that payment (I believe?).

I started working at 16.

Back then, most of us did.

But that was back when the jobs were everywhere (1973/74).

Kat wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 11:01am:

I started working at 16. Back then, most of us did. But that was back when the jobs were everywhere (1973/74).

Perhaps the other strand - the (chorus of clear clarion calls) Gender War had something to do with it - add 40% more workers and hey, presto - automatic unemployment....
Throw in a few policies that favour some over others to 'equalise' them - and hey - guess who suffers the most unemployment....

Young Men.......who are also high in the homeless category... and the 'crime' category - well I wonder farken why?

ALSO:-  The rise in the Single Mother of Choice lifestyle is a job by another name... it's a living when there is no other.  Check the demos on SMBC in low employment vacancy areas...

Just saying - not criticising... but this is a sort of continuation of the 'mum at home' by another name - and is a stark reminder of REALITY!  Maybe more 'mums at home'
would free up the market.... maybe even lower housing prices and so on that are currently geared to the mandatory dual income family......

Too many workers - and even here - a very low job opportunity area - there are people with two jobs and many with none... now WTF sort of micro-management is that?

Absolute freedom for all in the work marketplace, meaning you can have five jobs if you can get them, but someone else might have none.

Great work there!  And guaranteed to do three things - fragment this country into massive social divides - lead to massive and permanent underclass poverty and serfdom and consequent disempowerment socially, economically and politically (well, I never!) - and also lead inevitably to revolt and civil war.

:'(

Ah - life in The Third World Banana Republic.... (kisses off fingers) .....

THE primary cause of revolt and revolution is insult.  How much longer can the dual insults of deprivation and the gender war go on before some eruptions occurs?

Hey, dude!  Where's My Australia?   :'(

Some very valid points raised.

When you get right down to the core of it, Globalisation is responsible for the massive youth unemployment.  It's not just about manufacturing and low-skill jobs going offshore, it's much broader than that.  Because of modern Internet and telecommunications, many of our I.T. and call centre jobs have gone offshore, and in massive numbers.  Retail is taking a hit too, and that will probably make the biggest difference, as it's the nations biggest employer.  Because of cheap online sales, which are also not subject to GST, more and more people are buying goods online, which is forcing numerous Australian retailers out of business.  Also, as most of the manufacturing is now gone, more people are opening up retail stores in Australia, only compounding issues.  The bottom line is, the wealthy in this country are continually looking to boost their profits by sourcing labour offshore, wherevere and however they can.  And in the remaining local jobs, corporations are now importing migrant workers who will work for slave wages.

As a result of all this, the only industries that are doing well in Australia are the mining/resources sector, along with large farms.  The wealthy and the Liberal Party simply want the rest to become homeless and starve - a simple case of forced population reduction.  There are a number of things that people can do to change this issue:

[list bull-blackball]

First and foremost, write to your Federal MP, demanding an end to Free Trade Agreements.

Put an end to migration, for the time being, but as a total separate issue to Boat People.

We are simply filling prisons with the poor and unemployed.  Raise public awareness about our ever-increasing prison populations in most states, and how this is crippling our economy.  When business owners realise this, then they might wake up.

Investigate the number of people of working age on Newstart or other job-seeking benefits (exluding pensions), as a percentage of the working age population.  This will give a TRUE indicator of unemployment rates.

On a personal level, we need to provide free birth control to all the unemployed, and encourage women as much as possible to take up this option.

If at all possible, don't pay for Rent alone - take up share housing to minimise your expenses.  If enough people did this, this would put pressure on the economy, where the number of vacant rental properties would increase.  Ultimately, this would force more wealthy property owners to sell up.


None of these options are a silver bullet solution, but they would go along way to fixing unemployment and UNDERemployment in this country, and distributing the wealth much more evenly.

That's a good post, AR.

Quote:

we need to provide free birth control to all the unemployed

Sorry.

Not on. It reeks of eugenics.

As I've said before, the unemployed are not some kind of undesirable
sub-species that you have the right to breed into extinction, nor should
anyone tolerate them being treated as such

The idea is completely unacceptable, especially due to its blatantly
discriminatory nature. The unemployed have as much right to breed as
anyone else, and certainly more-so than those who'd practice some kind
of genocide upon them.

You sound like another of the 'they've never worked since leaving school,
and never will' school of (no) thought, who believes that the unemployed
should be punished and marginalised simply for being unemployed.


As you've done before, you post a comment which, on the surface, seems
quite reasonable. Then the 'sting in the tail' appears, and negates everything
else you've said.

Just what is it that makes you think that you are somehow superior to an
unemployed person?

Kat wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 9:18am:

Quote: we need to provide free birth control to all the unemployed Sorry. Not on. It reeks of eugenics. As I've said before, the unemployed are not some kind of undesirable sub-species that you have the right to breed into extinction, nor should anyone tolerate them being treated as such The idea is completely unacceptable, especially due to its blatantly discriminatory nature. The unemployed have as much right to breed as anyone else, and certainly more-so than those who'd practice some kind of genocide upon them. You sound like another of the 'they've never worked since leaving school, and never will' school of (no) thought, who believes that the unemployed should be punished and marginalised simply for being unemployed. As you've done before, you post a comment which, on the surface, seems quite reasonable. Then the 'sting in the tail' appears, and negates everything else you've said. Just what is it that makes you think that you are somehow superior to an unemployed person?

Couldn't agree more, Kat, this would be just the first step on a very slippery slope; next, perhaps the forced sterilization of the long-term unemployed. Then let's include those who are somehow "different".
We've been there before...

It's a Libbo idea to punish the unemployed.

their policy is:

---

The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 9:38am:

Couldn't agree more, Kat, this would be just the first step on a very slippery slope; next, perhaps the forced sterilization of the long-term unemployed. Then let's include those who are somehow "different". We've been there before...

Ending the feral breeding program would help Australia. No more money for being too stupid to take a pill or wanting a new TV at the taxpayer's expense.


If you can't feed 'em, you shouldn't breed 'em. Personal responsibility, it's not just for taxpayers, it for everyone.

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 10:09am:

The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 9:38am: Couldn't agree more, Kat, this would be just the first step on a very slippery slope; next, perhaps the forced sterilization of the long-term unemployed. Then let's include those who are somehow "different". We've been there before... Ending the feral breeding program would help Australia. No more money for being too stupid to take a pill or wanting a new TV at the taxpayer's expense. If you can't feed 'em, you shouldn't breed 'em. Personal responsibility, it's not just for taxpayers, it for everyone.

Why so angry BigOl', was your stint as Spot's flight attendant really so bad?

The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 10:40am:

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:09am: The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 9:38am: Couldn't agree more, Kat, this would be just the first step on a very slippery slope; next, perhaps the forced sterilization of the long-term unemployed. Then let's include those who are somehow "different". We've been there before... Ending the feral breeding program would help Australia. No more money for being too stupid to take a pill or wanting a new TV at the taxpayer's expense. If you can't feed 'em, you shouldn't breed 'em. Personal responsibility, it's not just for taxpayers, it for everyone. Why so angry BigOl', was your stint as Spot's flight attendant really so bad?

Why so wrong felon?

See this means Im angry  >:( There are none of these in my post. No   >:( means no anger.

No emoticon mean no emotion, just information.

But thanks for what little effort you put into the reply, I know you exceeded your limitiations on that one.  ;D (laughing at you)

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 10:09am:

The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 9:38am: Couldn't agree more, Kat, this would be just the first step on a very slippery slope; next, perhaps the forced sterilization of the long-term unemployed. Then let's include those who are somehow "different". We've been there before... Ending the feral breeding program would help Australia. No more money for being too stupid to take a pill or wanting a new TV at the taxpayer's expense. If you can't feed 'em, you shouldn't breed 'em. Personal responsibility, it's not just for taxpayers, it for everyone.

I agree BigOl,
it's irresponsible to bring children into the world
if you don't have a steady job & income.

Maybe that's why RU486 is almost being given away now?

thank god crook, that people like you and me can see that the union demands for higher wages and penalty rates are resulting in this tragic unemployment.

i applaud your efforts crook, to curb the power of the unions , and assist small business to employ these young people.

thankfully , you can see that union demands will see them thrown on the scrap heap of unemployment and i am grateful for your many posts recognising the evil of wages growth that is not accompanied by productivity growth

The war in America between the north and the south, didn't go the way some wanted.  The result was the north won, and it put an end to slavery.      :)      

I hope they got solution with these problem. It needs a lot of effort must be done by the government to solve these issue. But if in case you are an office worker, you might be spending most of your waking life inside those sardine cans of woe known as cubicles. If you are stuck in an office space can and rely on the income you get for stewing in corporate preservative juices, act like a good little fish and display amazing workplace conduct. Here are a few not-so-obvious suggestions for what not to do at your cubicle. Keep away from these things because you fear unemployment and drowning in debt.Joblessness hurts, even more than spending much of your days in a cubicle. Keep away from doing any of these things while you are in your office tomb and "The Man" will not fire you. More here.

aquascoot wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 11:54am:

thank god crook, that people like you and me can see that the union demands for higher wages and penalty rates are resulting in this tragic unemployment. i applaud your efforts crook, to curb the power of the unions , and assist small business to employ these young people. thankfully , you can see that union demands will see them thrown on the scrap heap of unemployment and i am grateful for your many posts recognising the evil of wages growth that is not accompanied by productivity growth

(*Roger, air strike on the way in - this is a big one - tell your people to get their heads down and hold their breath)...

Your one valid point is "the evil of wages growth that is not accompanied by productivity " - wages rise to meet cost of living which then rises to meet wage rises - it's a never-ending cycle and nobody wins....the only valid question is:-

Who will be the first to take a pay drop?  The cost of living factors or the workers?  Who is under more control here?

In one - the workers are - so it falls upon those who raise the cost of living to accept a freeze and maybe a downturn - so that wages might begin to come down again.  Prime amongst those factors of COL rise are 'privatised government' things - where the only outcome was the addition of an extra layer of cost through both government shareholding and taxation..... good work if you can get it!

Great work again... take a bonus, politicians.... add a little more to your healthy retirement fund....

*dons kevlar and awaits barrage of vehement ad hominauseums - coin of the realm here with 3-4 users*....

ADDS:-  You know - it always amazes me - even those comfortable and soooo conservative public servants, and I've worked with some, who will not rock their golden boat and just love to pummel those filthy lower-class Union workers, never seem to realise that it is the Union movement and the pressure of the workers that leads to their pay rises, too.  When the Arbitration or whoever they are now people give a pay rise, then it flows on to the non-unionised shops as well - NOBODY is excluded from the benefits of the Unions' work in working out how much is needed to continue to survive and receive a fair day's pay for a fair day's work, and then presenting the case at huge cost before that commission of whatever.

Who do you think does the spadework and presents the case?  YOU?  Kevin Rudd and his henchmen?  Tony Abbott and his henchmen, the near-forgotten Greens and theirs?....

Fine - go without....would you rather that the government enforce a fascist freeze on wages, reduce pensions as Maggie 'Ding Dong' Thatcher did with War Veterans while neglecting the wounded Falklands Vets needs, and let the cards fall as they may?  You prepared to go first?

Lay on, MacDuff - and cursed be he who first cries 'Hold!'!

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 10:05pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 11:54am: thank god crook, that people like you and me can see that the union demands for higher wages and penalty rates are resulting in this tragic unemployment. i applaud your efforts crook, to curb the power of the unions , and assist small business to employ these young people. thankfully , you can see that union demands will see them thrown on the scrap heap of unemployment and i am grateful for your many posts recognising the evil of wages growth that is not accompanied by productivity growth (*Roger, air strike on the way in - this is a big one - tell your people to get their heads down and hold their breath)... Your one valid point is "the evil of wages growth that is not accompanied by productivity " - wages rise to meet cost of living which then rises to meet wage rises - it's a never-ending cycle and nobody wins....the only valid question is:- Who will be the first to take a pay drop?  The cost of living factors or the workers?  Who is under more control here? In one - the workers are - so it falls upon those who raise the cost of living to accept a freeze and maybe a downturn - so that wages might begin to come down again.  Prime amongst those factors of COL rise are 'privatised government' things - where the only outcome was the addition of an extra layer of cost through both government shareholding and taxation..... good work if you can get it! Great work again... take a bonus, politicians.... add a little more to your healthy retirement fund.... *dons kevlar and awaits barrage of vehement ad hominauseums - coin of the realm here with 3-4 users*.... ADDS:-  You know - it always amazes me - even those comfortable and soooo conservative public servants, and I've worked with some, who will not rock their golden boat and just love to pummel those filthy lower-class Union workers, never seem to realise that it is the Union movement and the pressure of the workers that leads to their pay rises, too.  When the Arbitration or whoever they are now people give a pay rise, then it flows on to the non-unionised shops as well - NOBODY is excluded from the benefits of the Unions' work in working out how much is needed to continue to survive and receive a fair day's pay for a fair day's work, and then presenting the case at huge cost before that commission of whatever. Who do you think does the spadework and presents the case?  YOU?  Kevin Rudd and his henchmen?  Tony Abbott and his henchmen, the near-forgotten Greens and theirs?.... Fine - go without....would you rather that the government enforce a fascist freeze on wages, reduce pensions as Maggie 'Ding Dong' Thatcher did with War Veterans while neglecting the wounded Falklands Vets needs, and let the cards fall as they may?  You prepared to go first? Lay on, MacDuff - and cursed be he who first cries 'Hold!'!

the truth is this.

workers are "selling' their labor on a market in EXACTLY the same was as a retailer sells clothes or a food outlet sells meals.

this is competitive and as a free market should lead to a drive to the top ,(not the bottom , the leftards always harp on about). it should lead to a drive to excellence.

but imagine if we "unionised" food outlets and unionised clothing stores and said all meals must be sold at the same price, all dresses at the same price. what would be the result of this collective bargaining?

absolute crap food and absolute shoddy clothes. without competition, who would give a f#ck.

same with labor,  you want exclellent
teachers
doctors
footballers
carpenters
shop assistants

then
FREE UP THE LABOR MARKET and get rid of this mentality that all workers deserve the same.
not all small businesses earn the same rate, why are these employees who risk no capital entitled to the cream. ;)

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 4^th, 2013 at 11:15am:

The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:40am: BigOl64 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:09am: The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 9:38am: Couldn't agree more, Kat, this would be just the first step on a very slippery slope; next, perhaps the forced sterilization of the long-term unemployed. Then let's include those who are somehow "different". We've been there before... Ending the feral breeding program would help Australia. No more money for being too stupid to take a pill or wanting a new TV at the taxpayer's expense. If you can't feed 'em, you shouldn't breed 'em. Personal responsibility, it's not just for taxpayers, it for everyone. Why so angry BigOl', was your stint as Spot's flight attendant really so bad? Why so wrong felon? See this means Im angry  >:( There are none of these in my post. No   >:( means no anger. No emoticon mean no emotion, just information. But thanks for what little effort you put into the reply, I know you exceeded your limitiations on that one.  ;D (laughing at you)

So the next time you get bad service in a shop or restaurant, you'll draw them a frowny face? That'll show 'em...

Sorry - but the workers do not sell their labour on a free and open market - their wages are prescribed.  The level of cost of living issues, such as housing, power and so forth, are governed by market forces and are thus subject to abuse.

The workers are the only ones who are paid under awards and agreements, and who have little to no control or autonomy over that.  They are the only ones in a controlled market place.

It thus behoves those who are not in that controlled market place to either be controlled or control themselves... I'm awaiting a fly-past of pigs.   ::)

"but imagine if we "unionised" food outlets and unionised clothing stores and said all meals must be sold at the same price, all dresses at the same price. what would be the result of this collective bargaining?

absolute crap food and absolute shoddy clothes. without competition, who would give a f#ck."

- that's exactly why we get shoddy work - they have no incentive and no proper direction and no autonomy - remember Boeing?  They gave to their workers a personal autonomy and responsibility for 'their' own aircraft, and the results were a 90%+ drop in post manufacturing repairs.

Competition has its upper limit - it's called greed..... when all the same business are equally greedy and exploitative - where is there an open market for workers - and don't forget employment - yup - you can operate on that free market - take it or leave it!

Also - think it through - are not the workers also competing with business for a fair wage etc and fair standard of living?  Each is a legal entity - as is government BTW - let's start thinking here....

I'm in the business of making money - you are in the business of making money - will we compete fairly across the board or will one of us go for greed and ruin it for both?

OH:-  and I'm not a 'leftard' - I'm far too radical for that...... now gimme some more rhetoric and hyperbole and ad hominem.... the day would not be complete without  it!

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 5^th, 2013 at 7:06am:

Sorry - but the workers do not sell their labour on a free and open market - their wages are prescribed.  The level of cost of living issues, such as housing, power and so forth, are governed by market forces and are thus subject to abuse. The workers are the only ones who are paid under awards and agreements, and who have little to no control or autonomy over that.  They are the only ones in a controlled market place. It thus behoves those who are not in that controlled market place to either be controlled or control themselves... I'm awaiting a fly-past of pigs.   ::) "but imagine if we "unionised" food outlets and unionised clothing stores and said all meals must be sold at the same price, all dresses at the same price. what would be the result of this collective bargaining? absolute crap food and absolute shoddy clothes. without competition, who would give a f#ck." - that's exactly why we get shoddy work - they have no incentive and no proper direction and no autonomy - remember Boeing?  They gave to their workers a personal autonomy and responsibility for 'their' own aircraft, and the results were a 90%+ drop in post manufacturing repairs. Competition has its upper limit - it's called greed..... when all the same business are equally greedy and exploitative - where is there an open market for workers - and don't forget employment - yup - you can operate on that free market - take it or leave it! Also - think it through - are not the workers also competing with business for a fair wage etc and fair standard of living?  Each is a legal entity - as is government BTW - let's start thinking here.... I'm in the business of making money - you are in the business of making money - will we compete fairly across the board or will one of us go for greed and ruin it for both? OH:-  and I'm not a 'leftard' - I'm far too radical for that...... now gimme some more rhetoric and hyperbole and ad hominem.... the day would not be complete without  it!

actually just giving you facts.

free up the labor market, stop making a good worker a commodity that must be paid the same as a poor worker.
allow good workers to sell their skills on the open market in the same way roger federer and tiger woods sell their skills.  seems fair and promotes excellence.

think we should unionise the USA golf and wimbledon.  want all players paid an hourly rate.

sounds like a recipe for mediocrity and a drive to the bottom.  very very unhelpful   ;) ;)

The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 5^th, 2013 at 6:39am:

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 11:15am: The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:40am: BigOl64 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:09am: The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 9:38am: Couldn't agree more, Kat, this would be just the first step on a very slippery slope; next, perhaps the forced sterilization of the long-term unemployed. Then let's include those who are somehow "different". We've been there before... Ending the feral breeding program would help Australia. No more money for being too stupid to take a pill or wanting a new TV at the taxpayer's expense. If you can't feed 'em, you shouldn't breed 'em. Personal responsibility, it's not just for taxpayers, it for everyone. Why so angry BigOl', was your stint as Spot's flight attendant really so bad? Why so wrong felon? See this means Im angry  >:( There are none of these in my post. No   >:( means no anger. No emoticon mean no emotion, just information. But thanks for what little effort you put into the reply, I know you exceeded your limitiations on that one.  ;D (laughing at you) So the next time you get bad service in a shop or restaurant, you'll draw them a frowny face? That'll show 'em...

Yes, because I always communicate in writing to people standing right in front of me. My god, please don't talk to me anymore I'm losing intelligence just reading your replies.

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 5^th, 2013 at 8:42am:

The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 5th, 2013 at 6:39am: BigOl64 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 11:15am: The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:40am: BigOl64 wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 10:09am: The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 4th, 2013 at 9:38am: Couldn't agree more, Kat, this would be just the first step on a very slippery slope; next, perhaps the forced sterilization of the long-term unemployed. Then let's include those who are somehow "different". We've been there before... Ending the feral breeding program would help Australia. No more money for being too stupid to take a pill or wanting a new TV at the taxpayer's expense. If you can't feed 'em, you shouldn't breed 'em. Personal responsibility, it's not just for taxpayers, it for everyone. Why so angry BigOl', was your stint as Spot's flight attendant really so bad? Why so wrong felon? See this means Im angry  >:( There are none of these in my post. No   >:( means no anger. No emoticon mean no emotion, just information. But thanks for what little effort you put into the reply, I know you exceeded your limitiations on that one.  ;D (laughing at you) So the next time you get bad service in a shop or restaurant, you'll draw them a frowny face? That'll show 'em... Yes, because I always communicate in writing to people standing right in front of me. My god, please don't talk to me anymore I'm losing intelligence just reading your replies.

Verbal skills aint what they might be, eh?

Written ones aren't much chop either...

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 1^st, 2013 at 10:51am:

cods wrote on Jun 30th, 2013 at 7:48am: since when has 15 b een the working age?? I thought that went out 40 years ago.. didnt the gillard govt pay parents to keep their 16/17 years olds in school longer???? I dont get it... 15 seems like child labour to me. In WA, kids have to stay in school or training or approved work (or in a combination of approved options) until the end of the year in which they turn 17. I agree: a 15 year old in full-time employment seems like child labour.

Incorrect. Children can leave at 15.

The Heartless Felon wrote on Jul 5^th, 2013 at 10:08am:

Verbal skills aint what they might be, eh? Written ones aren't much chop either...

Oh what a stinging rebuke, well after that I've learned my lesson.   ;D


Quit while you're behind