I note all the austerity talk from lefties as if it's a bad thing

Facts are Austerity simply means spending less because the previous government had wasted sooooo much money

Maqqa wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 2:23pm:

I note all the austerity talk from lefties as if it's a bad thing Facts are Austerity simply means spending less because the previous government had wasted sooooo much money

More bullshyt.

Austerity isn't necessary, quite the contrary. Especially the Con-alition's version of it.

Those who support austerity at this time are fools and traitors who should never be given power.

And the govt hasn't 'wasted' money, it's merely spent what you maggots refused to, on things
that can only benefit the country. Something your putrid mates are notorious for NOT doing.

Your mob would rather indulge in REAL, blatant waste on middle-class wealthfare, and on
buying votes. And tax-breaks for the wealthiest, rather than supporting the mining tax. FOOLS!

So, it's the Libs' fault for the (non-existent) 'waste'. They did the wrong thing for 10 years, now
it's time to pay the piper. Suck it up!

But hey, keep posting your BS, it's good for a laugh (if nothing else).

weren't you on the other thread denying the fact that Abbott was planning Austerity measures? Now you are trying to defend it ? Why? if there are no Austerity plans why do you feel you need to defend it?

howard was the one who got us in the sh!t, he wasted the benefits of the mining boom by creating huge amounts of middle class welfare. he was handing money around like a drunklen sailor, trying to buy votes. Its been said he was the best Labor PM this country has ever had, a traitor to the conservative movement. He was good at propoganda though.

ian wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 2:49pm:

howard was the one who got us in the sh!t, he wasted the benefits of the mining boom by creating huge amounts of middle class welfare. he was handing money around like a drunklen sailor, trying to buy votes. Its been said he was the best Labor PM this country has ever had, a traitor to the conservative movement. He was good at propoganda though.

One thing is for sure you're not very good at anything. You parrot the same sh1t as your socialist muppets on this forum.

Socrates wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 2:56pm:

ian wrote on Jul 6th, 2013 at 2:49pm: howard was the one who got us in the sh!t, he wasted the benefits of the mining boom by creating huge amounts of middle class welfare. he was handing money around like a drunklen sailor, trying to buy votes. Its been said he was the best Labor PM this country has ever had, a traitor to the conservative movement. He was good at propoganda though. One thing is for sure you're not very good at anything. You parrot the same sh1t as your socialist muppets on this forum.

maybe he learnt from you?

Maqqa wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 2:23pm:

I note all the austerity talk from lefties as if it's a bad thing Facts are Austerity simply means spending less because the previous government had wasted sooooo much money

"Normally", Austerity programs are simply part of the ups & downs of the "Normal" Economic cycle, which have been a "Normal" part of Economics, for much of the last 200 years or so, of the Modern Economic Era!

However, this is not a "Normal" Economic cycle, owing to the prolonged impacts of Demographics, Energy Shortages/Price increases & Climate Change!

Therefore the "Normal" across the board Austerity programs are (think Europe)/would be (think Australia, the USA & elsewhere) absolutely the wrong thing, at absolutely the wrong time! Indeed, many of the "Normal" Economic fixes applied via both the Austrian & Keynesian Economic schools of thought, which have previously been successfully used, will now prove to be largely ineffective

That said, targeted change, to reduce expenses & primary consideration going to improving Productivity, is absolutely the correct thing, as this once in history combination of Economic drivers will continue to impact on us Locally & Globally, for decades to come.

WE NEED NEW APPROACHES/SOLUTIONS TO THESE PROBLEMS, WHICH ARE FAR FROM "NORMAL"!

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1372809408/16#16

End unfettered free market capitalism and do it now and give us back social democracy...

Maqqa wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 2:23pm:

I note all the austerity talk from lefties as if it's a bad thing Facts are Austerity simply means spending less because the previous government had wasted sooooo much money

So if this is the case then why wont Mr Abbott debate Mr Rudd on economics.
Why is Tony so scared of discussing economics in public?

ian wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 2:49pm:

howard was the one who got us in the sh!t, he wasted the benefits of the mining boom by creating huge amounts of middle class welfare. he was handing money around like a drunklen sailor, trying to buy votes. Its been said he was the best Labor PM this country has ever had, a traitor to the conservative movement. He was good at propoganda though.

Agree with this comment.

But I doubt Labor would claim him, he was way too far to the
right, although not as bad as the current clown-incumbent.

adelcrow wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 3:15pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jul 6th, 2013 at 2:23pm: I note all the austerity talk from lefties as if it's a bad thing Facts are Austerity simply means spending less because the previous government had wasted sooooo much money So if this is the case then why wont Mr Abbott debate Mr Rudd on economics. Why is Tony so scared of discussing economics in public?

Because he doesn't know anything about the economy.

His 'talking-down' comments, and his 'debt, debt, debt' rants are ample proof, if any was needed.

I'd like to have seen him & Fat-Boy do as well as Rudd/Swann did during and after the GFC.

But since it's never happened, and never will.....

Kat wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 3:36pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 6th, 2013 at 3:15pm: Maqqa wrote on Jul 6th, 2013 at 2:23pm: I note all the austerity talk from lefties as if it's a bad thing Facts are Austerity simply means spending less because the previous government had wasted sooooo much money So if this is the case then why wont Mr Abbott debate Mr Rudd on economics. Why is Tony so scared of discussing economics in public? Because he doesn't know anything about the economy. His 'talking-down' comments are ample proof, if any was needed. I'd like to have seen him & Fat-Boy do as well as Rudd/Swann did during and after the GFC. But since it's never happened, and never will.....

Abbott should cease his one liners and give us some real info on his economic policies if he wants us to take him seriously either that or debate Kevin Rudd so we can compare their
bona fides

STOP the waste... now theres an idea....

of course no one will be able to stop the borrowing JUST LIKE THAT..

but it does need to stop the polies have now got themselves a huge pay increase lets see them earn it by not wasting what little money we do have.

cods wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 3:46pm:

STOP the waste... now theres an idea.... of course no one will be able to stop the borrowing JUST LIKE THAT.. but it does need to stop the polies have now got themselves a huge pay increase lets see them earn it by not wasting what little money we do have.

Mr Abbott has a genuine offer to expand on his ideas in a debate with Mr Rudd and until he takes up that offer all his one liners on the subject amount to nothing.

Capitalism wants us to keep subsidizing its self inflicted crises and bailing it out by punishing the battler.  Its time this Free Market beast was reigned in with large tax increases, regulation and an expansion of public intervention into the economy....up yours objectivists and Ayn Rand disciples...up yours you thieving selfish criminals...

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2010/09/29/1225931/717111-john-howard.jpg



Former prime minister John Howard gave the economy a big tick before Treasurer Wayne Swan delivered his sixth budget on Tuesday night.

Mr Howard told a mortgage and finance industry convention in Sydney the economy was resilient despite the belief that it was ''running on empty''.

In an off-the-cuff speech on Friday, reported by trade website The Adviser, Mr Howard was upbeat about the economy.

''When the Prime Minister and the Treasurer and others tell you that the Australian economy is doing better than most - they are right,'' Mr Howard said.

The low unemployment rate had surprised him, he said.

''We are still fortunate that we have an unemployment rate with a five in front of it. I wouldn't have thought that was going to be possible a few years ago, and I don't think many people would. Our unemployment has remained pleasingly quite low,'' Mr Howard said.

''And our debt to GDP ratio, the amount of money we owe, to the strength of our economy, is still a lot better than most other countries,'' he said.

He said Australia's economy was better than the economies of Japan, the US and most European countries.

This is in stark contrast to his protege and Opposition Leader Tony Abbott's assessment of doom and gloom on Monday.


http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/resilient-economy-in-better-shape-than-most-says-howard-20130514-2jke5.html#ixzz2Te3JNgsM

adelcrow wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 3:47pm:

cods wrote on Jul 6th, 2013 at 3:46pm: STOP the waste... now theres an idea.... of course no one will be able to stop the borrowing JUST LIKE THAT.. but it does need to stop the polies have now got themselves a huge pay increase lets see them earn it by not wasting what little money we do have. Mr Abbott has a genuine offer to expand on his ideas in a debate with Mr Rudd and until he takes up that offer all his one liners on the subject amount to nothing.

Just because Rudd begs Abbott for a debate doesn't mean Abbott has to do it.

The only reason Rudd is begging for it, is because he know Abbott looks more like the PM than Rudd himself. Who wouldn't after the the last 3 years of the rabble that has the gall to refer to themselves as a party when they are more like a kindergarten.

ian wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 2:49pm:

howard was the one who got us in the sh!t.

We aren't "in the sh!t"
The economy is performing BRILLIANTLY



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BGeNUmoCQAAGGVT.jpg

Dale Ftard wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 3:54pm:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 6th, 2013 at 3:47pm: cods wrote on Jul 6th, 2013 at 3:46pm: STOP the waste... now theres an idea.... of course no one will be able to stop the borrowing JUST LIKE THAT.. but it does need to stop the polies have now got themselves a huge pay increase lets see them earn it by not wasting what little money we do have. Mr Abbott has a genuine offer to expand on his ideas in a debate with Mr Rudd and until he takes up that offer all his one liners on the subject amount to nothing. Just because Rudd begs Abbott for a debate doesn't mean Abbott has to do it. The only reason Rudd is begging for it, is because he know Abbott looks more like the PM than Rudd himself. Who wouldn't after the the last 3 years of the rabble that has the gall to refer to themselves as a party when they are more like a kindergarten.

rudd thinks everyone has forgotten and forgiven his past... ho hum..

and we all know he has a gift for not answering questions... as the saying goes..

you can fool some of the people some of the time.. etc.etc.

I would go with it if on one condition... every question/point has to be answered..

rudd has a way of turning everything into an Abbott question..

yes he is now sorry about the deaths in roof cavities......why has it taken him so loooooooooooooooooong....

I guess he has been doing his best to find a way to pass the buck onto Abbott..nasty little weasel.never could own his own mistakes..

Must be why we just sacked the PM and Treasurer Buzz.

Because we are doing so well?

The AUD has tanked.
Unemployment is increasing across the economy, particularly manufacturing.
The resources boom is slowing.
Cost of living continues to place huge pressure on families.
Gross debt has increased by over 330%.

Australia is not looking that good lately.

Its not talking the economy down, its being honest.

Kevin "spend, spend, spend" Rudd is one of the reasons we have such a large deficit and labor were unable to produce even a single surplus.  His policy decisions done on the fly and largely without consultation lead to his dismissal and the intractable situation Julia found herself in.

Back again, his first though-bubble is to go to Indonesia and "spend, spend, spend"...  thank god SBY had other ideas...  not that he'd ever knock back money from Australia.

The NBN will prove to be a huge "white elephant" as technology races ahead and it becomes redundant at a huge cost to us.  No consultation, no proper implementation planning, and no business plan.  It is blowing out and is not only behind schedule but access and take up is below expectations.

Boat people are costing us a ridiculous amount running into the BILLIONS...  too much for so few people who choose criminal means to get access to Australia.  The bulk of whom are really just economic refugees.

Fuelwatch, Grocerywatch... waste waste waste...

MRRT taking from the states and ending up producing barely enough to be worth the bother...  a huge vehicle of churn and centralisation of power.

The Climate Change Commission; one of, if not the biggest waste of money for a useless over funded collection of bureaucrats.

The list goes on and on...

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 4:05pm:

Must be why we just sacked the PM and Treasurer Buzz. Because we are doing so well? The AUD has tanked. Unemployment is increasing across the economy, particularly manufacturing. The resources boom is slowing. Cost of living continues to place huge pressure on families. Gross debt has increased by over 330%. Australia is not looking that good lately. Its not talking the economy down, its being honest.

So Andrei, why do you think that the OZ Economy is slipping & are we alone in that slip?

And, HOW DEEP & HOW LONG will the slip be?

Finally, what difference would a change of government make, if any & why?

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 4:05pm:

Australia is not looking that good lately.

The Australian economy is among the world's ELITE - and it just IRKS you this has happened under a LABOR GOVERNMENT






http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2010/09/29/1225931/717111-john-howard.jpg



Former prime minister John Howard gave the economy a big tick before Treasurer Wayne Swan delivered his sixth budget on Tuesday night.

Mr Howard told a mortgage and finance industry convention in Sydney the economy was resilient despite the belief that it was ''running on empty''.

In an off-the-cuff speech on Friday, reported by trade website The Adviser, Mr Howard was upbeat about the economy.

''When the Prime Minister and the Treasurer and others tell you that the Australian economy is doing better than most - they are right,'' Mr Howard said.

The low unemployment rate had surprised him, he said.

''We are still fortunate that we have an unemployment rate with a five in front of it. I wouldn't have thought that was going to be possible a few years ago, and I don't think many people would. Our unemployment has remained pleasingly quite low,'' Mr Howard said.

''And our debt to GDP ratio, the amount of money we owe, to the strength of our economy, is still a lot better than most other countries,'' he said.

He said Australia's economy was better than the economies of Japan, the US and most European countries.

This is in stark contrast to his protege and Opposition Leader Tony Abbott's assessment of doom and gloom on Monday.


http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/resilient-economy-in-better-shape-than-most-says-howard-20130514-2jke5.html#ixzz2Te3JNgsM



ian wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 2:49pm:

howard was the one who got us in the sh!t.

We aren't "in the sh!t"
The economy is performing BRILLIANTLY



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BGeNUmoCQAAGGVT.jpgi

I'll give my views from the other side of the world here in England PN and if I knew the answer to some of those questions, I'd be in a lot more powerful position that my current one.

I just closed out the ANZ result for Q2.
Our revenue is being translated into the Corp result at 0.899.
I look back to Q1 close and I was translating it at 1.048. In Q4 I translated it at 1.086.

See a trend here?

By the way that's good for our OpEx which are lower but sh*thouse for gas sales from your region...

Why is it tanking?

Ok here is my view.

Australia has never been performing that well over the last couple of quarters.
There has been an excessive boom across China which has spurred the need for resources and natural mineral production refinement.

Chinas boom is slowing.
As a result that will see an end to more of the masking factors if you like.

Australia's manufacturing employment has not been good for a long time.
I sat with a high up guy at Holden recently who told me its near on impossible to produce cars in Australia now and that are not great outlooks for GMC in Australia the next few years.
Cost of living is high, competition is intense, salaries are too high in that sector.

The economy is small. You're only a little country. Here in Britain we're part of a much more powerful trading block in the EU to compete with the US and Asia.
Australia will find it hard to go it alone with such a small base.
So to keep your competitiveness, attract investment you need much higher interest rates than we have.
Thus increasing cost of living pressures with mortgages to your families etc.

How does Australia get out of this slide?
I don't know, I think debt increasing which you have done year on year since 2007 is not the answer.
No matter what your circumstance increasing debt is not really ever am answer.

What you're going to see now is essentially what's being going on for a while.
An economy in trouble but just this time the Chinese growth stalling is not going to mask it anymore.

There has been an intense amount of job losses in Australia lately across sectors.
I recruited for a $200k Fin Controller role lately down there. The amount of guys I had the cv who had recently been made redundant was huge. Strong candidates too. It was a sign of how tough it is out there now when you have skilled experienced guys looking for a paycut to get a job.

Australia has some rough days ahead I think.

Buzz if I thought you had the first clue about Finance or Economics I'd give a more detailed response.

However I rate perceptions knowledge, I don't actually rate your depth of knowledge at all.
Despite your claims to have an education level to mine.

Maqqa wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 2:23pm:

I note all the austerity talk from lefties as if it's a bad thing Facts are Austerity simply means spending less because the previous government had wasted sooooo much money

Maqqa admits to the secret Abbott austerity program.

I have a whole thread on it.

have a look at the pics on the first page here:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1372809408/0

Austerity cuts are sometimes what's required Bobby.

When you have a problem where you are spending more than you earn -

Do you think your answer is to spend how you are and borrow more to cover the gap or to cut your type of spending?

The problem is free market capitalists are taking out of the economy wealth they did not create, but stole...social democracy and justice is the solution.  Free Market propaganda should be censored from all media....

Austerity is a continuance of wealth redistribution from the poor to the rich...its a scam...enough of it....

All welfare payments should be doubled to ensure human security and place the burden on society to create secure, inclusive employment for those they have maliciously marginalized....

fight like hell for the poor!

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 5:11pm:

fight like hell for the poor!

The only ones who'll fight for the poor, ARE the poor.

No other ba$tard gives a stuff, they're too busy scamming the money that should be going to the poor for themselves.

Or actively encouraging poverty by driving wages & conditions down, and jobs overseas.

Either way, they're lining their pockets at the expense of the poor, and they won't let that change.

Aussies won't be the first to learn that the only way the poor will be heard is with the use of extreme violence, as
the French discovered in 1790, and the Russians in 1917.

No, I'm not advocating it (just to get in before the usual geese launch their attack), but I can see the potential for it.

Well there is the most absurd post of the day out of the way at 8.45am....

Maqqa wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 2:23pm:

I note all the austerity talk from lefties as if it's a bad thing Facts are Austerity simply means spending less because the previous government had wasted sooooo much money

Redevelop the top end - Liberal scheme - unfunded @ many 100's of Billions

Direct Action -  Liberal scheme - unfunded @ many 100's of Billions

No Mining tax - Liberal scheme - unfunded @ many 100's of Billions

Paid parental leave for the wealthy - Not funded in an acceptable manner for his party or owners.


Quote:

There's no money but lefties want to spend & spend

Sorry but who is it that wants to spend spend spend ??????

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 5:45pm:

Well there is the most absurd post of the day out of the way at 8.45am....

No.

Not absurd at all.

Look around you, if you can get down from your ivory tower for long enough.

Want absurd?

Read some of Maqqa's drivel.

Option 4 thanks. ;D

Kat wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 5:34pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 6th, 2013 at 5:11pm: fight like hell for the poor! The only ones who'll fight for the poor, ARE the poor. No other ba$tard gives a stuff, they're too busy scamming the money that should be going to the poor for themselves. Or actively encouraging poverty by driving wages & conditions down, and jobs overseas. Either way, they're lining their pockets at the expense of the poor, and they won't let that change. Aussies won't be the first to learn that the only way the poor will be heard is with the use of extreme violence, as the French discovered in 1790, and the Russians in 1917. No, I'm not advocating it (just to get in before the usual geese launch their attack), but I can see the potential for it.

This is a time of crises for capitalism and a time of great opportunity for the cause of social justice and democracy...seize the day, raise the social conscience of the world.  There are many good people who are in a much better financial situation than me who are fighting for social justice.  Social justice is the quest for human security and our future.  Its not just the cause the poor must fight, humanity must fight for it.

Quote:

Redevelop the top end - Liberal scheme - unfunded @ many 100's of Billions

Really....  it's called visionary booboo...  and yes it will cost a lot of money and take a lot of time but you have to start somewhere to decentralise and stop being fringe dwellers.

As for cost it will take federal, state and private funding to accomplish. Only a moron would try to paint it otherwise..


Quote:

Direct Action -  Liberal scheme - unfunded @ many 100's of Billions

Really?  You got the costings eh?  Or just the ALP propaganda sheet.  Direct action is a more realistic approach and environmental approach to solving environmental problems than a tax or market scheme.  More will be done and it won't mean an additional carbon tax putting the price of everything up and creating a cost of living crisis.


Quote:

No Mining tax - Liberal scheme - unfunded @ many 100's of Billions

LOL, you are a goose...  the states had a mining tax arrangement already this adds to the cost of industry and takes funding from the states and puts it into the hands of the federal government just a big churn.


Quote:

Paid parental leave for the wealthy - Not funded in an acceptable manner for his party or owners.

More crap.  Funded by a levy on companies over a specific size.  Not funded by a tax on all Australians and more generous than the ALP policy.

;D ;D ;D

Try to get some balance and reality in your poll Skippy, more people might vote then instead of just rusted on morons.

Grendel wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 6:31pm:

Try to get some balance and reality in your poll Skippy, more people might vote then instead of just rusted on morons.

Yea, LOL, reality has never been your strong point.

Grendel.

Quote:

More crap.  Funded by a levy on companies over a specific size.  Not funded by a tax on all Australians and more generous than the ALP policy.

More generous to the high paid.

What rubbish - tax on all Australians ???? How is it any different, as if the price won't be passed on to all Australians ????  Every argument that has been made against the fixed carbon price applies in exactly the same manner. The point is that the Libs will never be allowed to tax these businesses and in the end it will come from our taxes or just as likely it wont happen at all.

One of the silliest pieces of money wasting  I believe was done by Clover Moore ( Sydney City mayor and Labor do-gooder). She spends of $100,000 on a rainbow painted on the road at Oxford St Sydney. All these gay people start lying on the road and getting pictures taken. So now it's a safety issue. She spends another $100,000 getting it removed. So that's $200,000 flushed down the toilet. It's these people that have caused ordinary Labor voters to turn away from this party.

As for cost it will take federal, state and private funding to accomplish. Only a moron would try to paint it otherwise..

You think they will all chip in to move all the federal infrastructure to the outback with little prospect of a return, you really think that state governments will invest money in a project designed to cut their own throats?

Quote:

Really?  You got the costings eh?  Or just the ALP propaganda sheet.  Direct action is a more realistic approach and environmental approach to solving environmental problems than a tax or market scheme.

All realistic projections say that it would cost about 10 X more to achieve the same as a fixed price.

See that Tony has gone cheapskate on his green army, spending billions on paying the untrained youth to do local projects and now on a very low wage. If you consider that you only get what you pay for I imagine they won't be getting a lot. This is one of the corner stones of direct action.

One of the others is to plant a few million trees, trees that can't be supplied or maintained?

Direct action is nothing but a joke.

Dnarever wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 6:53pm:

Quote: Really?  You got the costings eh?  Or just the ALP propaganda sheet.  Direct action is a more realistic approach and environmental approach to solving environmental problems than a tax or market scheme. All realistic projections say that it would cost about 10 X more to achieve the same as a fixed price. See that Tony has gone cheapskate on his green army, spending billions on paying the untrained youth to do local projects and now on a very low wage. If you consider that you only get what you pay for I imagine they won't be getting a lot. This is one of the corner stones of direct action. One of the others is to plane a few million trees, trees that can't be supplied or maintained? Direct action is nothing but a joke.

And why is it, do you think, that the S.O.B wants to make WfD mandatory for the under-50s unemployed?

Who will, no doubt, do the bulk of the work, but receive none of the credit. Or any extra benefit/wage for doing so.

They're not called the Con-alition for nothing.

Grendel
Quote:

LOL, you are a goose...  the states had a mining tax arrangement already this adds to the cost of industry and takes funding from the states and puts it into the hands of the federal government just a big churn.

Still money that the Feds won't have that they will need to make up some other way. Money off the bottom line, money which will not be a plus on the finance report and missing money which adds to the deficit and is ultimately reflected in Australias debt.

Big Dave wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 6:44pm:

One of the silliest pieces of money wasting  I believe was done by Clover Moore ( Sydney City mayor and Labor do-gooder). She spends of $100,000 on a rainbow painted on the road at Oxford St Sydney. All these gay people start lying on the road and getting pictures taken. So now it's a safety issue. She spends another $100,000 getting it removed. So that's $200,000 flushed down the toilet. It's these people that have caused ordinary Labor voters to turn away from this party.

Labor do gooder? Really? You got a link to her ever being a member

Kat wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 5:34pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 6th, 2013 at 5:11pm: fight like hell for the poor! The only ones who'll fight for the poor, ARE the poor. No other ba$tard gives a stuff, they're too busy scamming the money that should be going to the poor for themselves. Or actively encouraging poverty by driving wages & conditions down, and jobs overseas. Either way, they're lining their pockets at the expense of the poor, and they won't let that change. Aussies won't be the first to learn that the only way the poor will be heard is with the use of extreme violence, as the French discovered in 1790, and the Russians in 1917. No, I'm not advocating it (just to get in before the usual geese launch their attack), but I can see the potential for it.

If you don't like WfD, get yourself a real job and contribute to society instead of being a parasite.

Dnarever wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 6:58pm:

Grendel Quote: LOL, you are a goose...  the states had a mining tax arrangement already this adds to the cost of industry and takes funding from the states and puts it into the hands of the federal government just a big churn. Still money that the Feds won't have that they will need to make up some other way. Money off the bottom line, money which will not be a plus on the finance report and missing money which adds to the deficit and is ultimately reflected in Australias debt.

It costs way more in red tape and bureaucracy to have the mining tax than it collects - its a classic ALP balls up

Let me summarise this for the leftards about skippy's Expenditure poll

(1) Expenditure under Howard was $241B with a GDP of $1.2 Trillion

(2) Expenditures under Labor is currently sitting at around $365B with a $1.5 trillion GDP

Cumulatively Labor have spent $300B more than what they have in the last 5 years

What it gets to is this

If LIBs spend - then they call it waste without really looking at the details

But any expenditure by Labor then it's lauded as the greatest thing since slice bread

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 4:37pm:

Buzz if I thought you had the first clue about finance or economics the GLOBAL ECONOMY ...

Well, NEITHER of us could lay claim to be leading authorities in THAT area
I don't PRETEND to be - I'm a musician, artist and environment advocate
And YOU - despite an overblown sense of self importance - are but a simple accountant

For these reasons I trust the UNANAMOUS verdict of ...

the OECD
the IMF
Moody's
Standard & Poor's
Fitch's
Euromoney Institutional Investor PLC
... and even the unlikely former Prime Minister, John Howard

( ... to name but a few)


Only a FOOL could seriously deny these respected opinions in favour of the LibNats, Murdoch Press, Alan Jones and Andrei Hicks

YOUR big problem - a product of your unyielding conservative, capitalist, right-wing bias - is that you are totally incapable of giving credit, where credit is due
 

Dale Ftard wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 7:09pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 6th, 2013 at 6:58pm: Grendel Quote: LOL, you are a goose...  the states had a mining tax arrangement already this adds to the cost of industry and takes funding from the states and puts it into the hands of the federal government just a big churn. Still money that the Feds won't have that they will need to make up some other way. Money off the bottom line, money which will not be a plus on the finance report and missing money which adds to the deficit and is ultimately reflected in Australias debt. It costs way more in red tape and bureaucracy to have the mining tax than it collects - its a classic ALP balls up

After the Mining companies supported by the Liberals spent millions on advertising against the tax and the then PM got turfed it was watered down to almost nothing. This clearly happened due to the pressure the mining companies were able to apply and fully supported by the Liberals.

It is also a super profits tax and if the big profits do not eventuate the tax income doesn't either. This means that in a depressed economy it isn't a big money spinner. 

Dnarever wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 7:32pm:

It is also a super profits tax and if the big profits do not eventuate the tax income doesn't either. This means that in a depressed economy it isn't a big money spinner.

You would be correct if the product of the miners were sold into a depressed economy as nobody is buying it

But the last time I looked - the ships are full steam ahead between Australia and China

Talking about a depressed economy - you guys supported Swannie's position that the economy is not depressed

Dnarever wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 6:44pm:

Grendel. Quote: More crap.  Funded by a levy on companies over a specific size.  Not funded by a tax on all Australians and more generous than the ALP policy. More generous to the high paid. What rubbish - tax on all Australians ???? How is it any different, as if the price won't be passed on to all Australians ????  Every argument that has been made against the fixed carbon price applies in exactly the same manner. The point is that the Libs will never be allowed to tax these businesses and in the end it will come from our taxes or just as likely it wont happen at all.

Oh dear more ignorance and bias on display by a labor rusted-on.
Puhlease do at least try to back your nonsense up with facts.

Dnarever wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 6:47pm:

As for cost it will take federal, state and private funding to accomplish. Only a moron would try to paint it otherwise.. You think they will all chip in to move all the federal infrastructure to the outback with little prospect of a return, you really think that state governments will invest money in a project designed to cut their own throats?

Oh puhlease what level of moron are you aiming your crap at.

If the ALP folds like a pack of cards you should take it up with them. Just naming it a "super profits" tax evokes Orwelliancommunist nightmare in the population of normal people.

It was a complete balls up from start to finish by Rudd, Swan and Gillard who between them know nothing of business and less about mining. These clowns should be nowhere near economic policy levers. They are outright dangerous.

Dale Ftard wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 7:05pm:

Kat wrote on Jul 6th, 2013 at 5:34pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 6th, 2013 at 5:11pm: fight like hell for the poor! The only ones who'll fight for the poor, ARE the poor. No other ba$tard gives a stuff, they're too busy scamming the money that should be going to the poor for themselves. Or actively encouraging poverty by driving wages & conditions down, and jobs overseas. Either way, they're lining their pockets at the expense of the poor, and they won't let that change. Aussies won't be the first to learn that the only way the poor will be heard is with the use of extreme violence, as the French discovered in 1790, and the Russians in 1917. No, I'm not advocating it (just to get in before the usual geese launch their attack), but I can see the potential for it. If you don't like WfD, get yourself a real job and contribute to society instead of being a parasite.

Asshole, I have a job, thanks very much. You have a hell of a lot of gall to call ME a parasite, pal.

You have NFI, all you fecktards can come up with is 'get a job' to anyone who disagrees with you.

Funny how the ones with all the invective are the ones who are ALWAYS on here during working hours. Hypocrites, much?

You're pathetic. Go and get a real brain.

I call em as I see them, parasite.

Would you prefer leech? Both apply to you.

Dale Ftard wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 7:51pm:

I call em as I see them, parasite. Would you prefer leech? Both apply to you.

Looking in that mirror again?

Hope you don't crack it, troll.

Having a job means I can afford to buy a new one.

You should try it sometime

Being a labour supporter my problem is with us blindly following the U.K/E.U into a carbon tax-ETS scam that has been proven to do nothing to actually benefit e environment !
The u.k govt has now released a report that shows their CARBON CONSUMPTION  has increased over the life of their ETS when you include imports. The e.u has also acknowledged this but is to afraid to cause a diplomatic incident by even suggesting a ETS tax on imports from china or India.
The high point was 2004 when u.k emissions including imports had gone from around 650 million tons carbon in 93 to over 850 million tons! The gfc hit the imports hard and dropped for the first time below the starting figure, but by 2010 it was climbing up above that figure again. They actually have forward projections that show if imports continue unchecked total emissions including cunsumtion of imports will have increased almost 50% from 1993-2025!
gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/85869/release-carbon-footprint-dec2012.pdf

/climatesafety.org/uks-total-emissions-set-to-rise-new-data-obtained-by-pirc/

To follow the two links put three w's in front.

Australia is a wealthy and prosperous country and has been for over 100 yrs so to say there in no money left only shows a lack of understanding about basic economics and the world around us.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 4:47pm:

Austerity cuts are sometimes what's required Bobby. When you have a problem where you are spending more than you earn - Do you think your answer is to spend how you are and borrow more to cover the gap or to cut your type of spending?

Rather than cut welfare to punish the most disadvantaged people
why not reduce public servant pay packets?

A reduction of between 10 & 25% would probably fix
the problem & no one would lose their job.

adelcrow wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 11:28am:

Australia is a wealthy and prosperous country and has been for over 100 yrs so to say there in no money left only shows a lack of understanding about basic economics and the world around us.

Well done...  one of the most; irrelevant, simplistic and vague statements I've ever read on a forum.

There is no money according to the capitalists so you want to kick the poor again...?  Where have we heard this story before?  Capitalists are being held accountable for the GFC, for the loss of manufacturing jobs off shore, for the disenfranchising of the working class from the economy and the destruction of the welfare system....just so you know.  This is a moral stain on society and an indictment of the Free Market capitalist system which fails our people, fails to deliver on human protection and security and is outright fascism...

Bobby. wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 11:35am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 6th, 2013 at 4:47pm: Austerity cuts are sometimes what's required Bobby. When you have a problem where you are spending more than you earn - Do you think your answer is to spend how you are and borrow more to cover the gap or to cut your type of spending? Rather than cut welfare to punish the most disadvantaged people why not reduce public servant pay packets? A reduction of between 10 & 25% would probably fix the problem & no one would lose their job.

Don't think there needs to be one or the other.
I would support cutting public servant salary as well as welfare reduction and overseas aid.

Grendel wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 7:42pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 6th, 2013 at 6:47pm: As for cost it will take federal, state and private funding to accomplish. Only a moron would try to paint it otherwise.. You think they will all chip in to move all the federal infrastructure to the outback with little prospect of a return, you really think that state governments will invest money in a project designed to cut their own throats? Oh puhlease what level of moron are you aiming your crap at.

I was aiming for something low enough fore you to cope with.

I gather that's as much a concession as you are capable of giving  ;D

You don't do your side of the debate any credit.

Grendel wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 3:03pm:

I gather that's as much a concession as you are capable of giving  You don't do your side of the debate any credit.

Nor you yours.

Grendel wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 11:40am:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 7th, 2013 at 11:28am: Australia is a wealthy and prosperous country and has been for over 100 yrs so to say there in no money left only shows a lack of understanding about basic economics and the world around us. Well done...  one of the most; irrelevant, simplistic and vague statements I've ever read posted on a forum.

Fixed. :P :P ;)

adelcrow wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 11:28am:

Australia is a wealthy and prosperous country and has been for over 100 yrs so to say there in no money left only shows a lack of understanding about basic economics and the world around us.

eg

Labor thinks by ignoring the $300B it will pay itself

You really need to get over this.

Funny, isn't it, how the only people in the developed world (and, for all I know or care, half the
un-developed world) who are in a panic over a debt which is, by world standards, negligible and
easily serviced, are the smack-knuckles from the Australian Right and their brain-dead supporters?

Now, I just wonder who is correct? (well no, I don't, actually).

You dills need to get a new act.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 4:36pm:

Australia has never been performing that well over the last couple of quarters. There has been an excessive boom across China which has spurred the need for resources and natural mineral production refinement. Chinas boom is slowing. As a result that will see an end to more of the masking factors if you like. Australia's manufacturing employment has not been good for a long time. You're only a little country. Here in Britain we're part of a much more powerful trading block in the EU to compete with the US and Asia. Australia will find it hard to go it alone with such a small base. So to keep your competitiveness, attract investment you need much higher interest rates than we have. How does Australia get out of this slide? I don't know, I think debt increasing which you have done year on year since 2007 is not the answer. No matter what your circumstance increasing debt is not really ever am answer. What you're going to see now is essentially what's being going on for a while. An economy in trouble but just this time the Chinese growth stalling is not going to mask it anymore. Australia has some rough days ahead I think.

Well Andrei, you are dwelling too much on Economic effects, when you should be looking at basic causes!

In order to get a good perspective on why the OZ Economy is slipping & it is, you/we/us first need to have a good look at the Global situation, because those are the major issues impacting the OZ Economy!

In order to get some proper perceptions of what  & why, things are changing, I would suggest a quick look at the major drivers that have been impacting the Global Economy, for much of the modern era, since say around 1800.

The absolute standouts are -
Demographics
This has been the biggest & most consistent driver of Global Demand & therefore Economic Growth, certainly since 1800.
Global Fertility around 1800 was about 6 children for each women, in many western countries it dipped to a low around the early 1930's (which coincided with the Great Depression), then peaked again  around 1956, before starting a relentless decline which now sees the Global rate around 2.
With 2.1 being regarded as the break even point, we are now bordering on actual Population reductions and indeed some countries are already much lower than break even, with Japan & a number of European countries being prime examples.

So, the Demand Growth is now slowing AND NO AMOUNT OF KEYNESIAN ECONOMICS WILL INCREASE DEMAND GROWTH BACK TO THE LEVELS OF THE LAST 40-50 YEARS!

Equally, THE USUAL AUSTERITY MEASURES, TO BRING HIGH DEBT LEVELS BACK TO NORMAL, KNOWING THAT THE USUAL POPULATION GROWTH WILL EVENTUALLY SPARK DEMAND GROWTH AGAIN & THEREFORE RESTART THE ECONOMY, WILL ALSO NOT WORK THIS TIME!

Energy
Fossil fuels such as Coal, Oil & Gas has been one of the great "energisers/Enablers" of Global Economic Growth, since around 1800. These fuels have been both Plentiful AND Cheap, for some 200 years, BUT since around 2000 the Oil & Coal gravy train has started to run down, with supply not keeping up with the usual Demand increases & Prices therefore rising, unless the Global Economy starts to slow.

Technology 
The second of the great "energisers/Enablers" of Global Economic Growth, since around 1800, with Technological advances being a substantial basis of Productivity gains, which have translated into great advances in Economic Growth!

Now, it MAY be possible that Technology MAY again come to our rescue & it MAY produce answers that MAY solve the Energy problem/s, BUT that would be a huge gamble to take & I simply don't believe that good Public policy should run those sort of risks AND quite frankly I think it is highly unlikely that Technology will actually solve the Energy problem/s! 

So, the likely outcome is that these major Economic drivers will continue their apparent new paths & the Global & local OZ Economies will continue to experience lower Growth, than the past 40-59 years AND that will translate into a long term Economic slowdown!

That slowdown will not be able to be corrected, like the usual Economic cycle and we will be obliged to look at new "solutions" against which we will measure success, although success is unlikely to have the same meaning as it once did?

Finally, I am fully aware that this news is hardly palatable, BUT at least forewarned is forearmed & those who have a better idea of what the future is really likely to bring, MAY be able to live better with the likely new realities?    

Oh & the following MAY be of interest, for those looking for background -
http://kounfinance.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/global-economic-driver-world-population.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nvqzXM_rlw#at=17
http://www.econ.umn.edu/~guvenen/paper6.pdf
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1372809408/16#16

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 3:02pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jul 6th, 2013 at 2:23pm: I note all the austerity talk from lefties as if it's a bad thing Facts are Austerity simply means spending less because the previous government had wasted sooooo much money "Normally", Austerity programs are simply part of the ups & downs of the "Normal" Economic cycle, which have been a "Normal" part of Economics, for much of the last 200 years or so, of the Modern Economic Era! However, this is not a "Normal" Economic cycle, owing to the prolonged impacts of Demographics, Energy Shortages/Price increases & Climate Change! Therefore the "Normal" across the board Austerity programs are (think Europe)/would be (think Australia, the USA & elsewhere) absolutely the wrong thing, at absolutely the wrong time! Indeed, many of the "Normal" Economic fixes applied via both the Austrian & Keynesian Economic schools of thought, which have previously been successfully used, will now prove to be largely ineffective That said, targeted change, to reduce expenses & primary consideration going to improving Productivity, is absolutely the correct thing, as this once in history combination of Economic drivers will continue to impact on us Locally & Globally, for decades to come. WE NEED NEW APPROACHES/SOLUTIONS TO THESE PROBLEMS, WHICH ARE FAR FROM "NORMAL"! http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1372809408/16#16

No response Maqqa!

Because, you know what I'm saying is correct?

Or because, as usual, you simply have NFI what is actually driving Economics and nor do the Liberals or Labor!
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1373084587/73#73

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 12:10am:

That said, targeted change, to reduce expenses & primary consideration going to improving Productivity, is absolutely the correct thing, as this once in history combination of Economic drivers will continue to impact on us Locally & Globally, for decades to come. WE NEED NEW APPROACHES/SOLUTIONS TO THESE PROBLEMS, WHICH ARE FAR FROM "NORMAL"!

I agree with most of this statement. 

Productivity improvement should be top of the list.

Tax reform.

Reforming out of date IR policies.

Concentrating on providing (affordable) incentives to industries that Australia has a competitive advantage and not cripple them with taxes .

Reforming Govt services to make them more self sustainable.

The state cannot afford to fornicate with the libertarian right any more and not expect to reap the consequences of giving in to organized crime and anarchy.  The state is bound to uphold the rule of law which is the only basis of its existence.  To cut taxes, cut labor rights, cut the size of Government voluntarily and to cut services is to fail social democracy and to fail the people.

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:58am:

The state cannot afford to fornicate with the libertarian right any more

It cannot afford not to.

The Libertarian Right is where the State likely gets the majority of its revenue from......

Swagman wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:51am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 8th, 2013 at 12:10am: That said, targeted change, to reduce expenses & primary consideration going to improving Productivity, is absolutely the correct thing, as this once in history combination of Economic drivers will continue to impact on us Locally & Globally, for decades to come. WE NEED NEW APPROACHES/SOLUTIONS TO THESE PROBLEMS, WHICH ARE FAR FROM "NORMAL"! I agree with most of this statement.  Productivity improvement should be top of the list. Tax reform. Reforming out of date IR policies. Concentrating on providing (affordable) incentives to industries that Australia has a competitive advantage and not cripple them with taxes . Reforming Govt services to make them more self sustainable.

Well, there certainly is a lot to do!

However, I would make reducing government from 3 branches to 2, as the first cab of the rank.

In doing so, I would completely get rid of Local Councils, by making those services fall under the relevant State Government minister for Local government.

That would remove one whole tier of graft & corruption, although there would still be plenty to go around.

And, it would reduce expenses, additional red tape & unnecessary variations in local regulations.

That said, there is also a heck of a lot about both Commonwealth & State governments that also need a lot of changing!

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 12:10am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 6th, 2013 at 3:02pm: Maqqa wrote on Jul 6th, 2013 at 2:23pm: I note all the austerity talk from lefties as if it's a bad thing Facts are Austerity simply means spending less because the previous government had wasted sooooo much money "Normally", Austerity programs are simply part of the ups & downs of the "Normal" Economic cycle, which have been a "Normal" part of Economics, for much of the last 200 years or so, of the Modern Economic Era! However, this is not a "Normal" Economic cycle, owing to the prolonged impacts of Demographics, Energy Shortages/Price increases & Climate Change! Therefore the "Normal" across the board Austerity programs are (think Europe)/would be (think Australia, the USA & elsewhere) absolutely the wrong thing, at absolutely the wrong time! Indeed, many of the "Normal" Economic fixes applied via both the Austrian & Keynesian Economic schools of thought, which have previously been successfully used, will now prove to be largely ineffective That said, targeted change, to reduce expenses & primary consideration going to improving Productivity, is absolutely the correct thing, as this once in history combination of Economic drivers will continue to impact on us Locally & Globally, for decades to come. WE NEED NEW APPROACHES/SOLUTIONS TO THESE PROBLEMS, WHICH ARE FAR FROM "NORMAL"! http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1372809408/16#16 No response Maqqa! Because, you know what I'm saying is correct? Or because, as usual, you simply have NFI what is actually driving Economics and nor do the Liberals or Labor! http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1373084587/73#73

How are you going Maqqa?

Still seeking clarification from the Party Bosses on how to SPIN an answer, when you really have NFI about Economics?

PN

Your posts in regards to this deserves no answer because you will demonise the LIBs for cuts but applaud the ALP for the very same cuts

So you are not interested in a discussion

Unless and until you admit there is a need for a cut because expenditure have skyrocketed under this Labor government - what is there to discuss

Your interest was never about economic or budgetary debate

Maqqa wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:21pm:

PN Your posts in regards to this deserves no answer because you will demonise the LIBs for cuts but applaud the ALP for the very same cuts So you are not interested in a discussion Unless and until you admit there is a need for a cut because expenditure have skyrocketed under this Labor government - what is there to discuss Your interest was never about economic or budgetary debate

More of your standard rubbish, Maqqa!

As I have already said -
Therefore the "Normal" across the board Austerity programs are (think Europe)/would be (think Australia, the USA & elsewhere) absolutely the wrong thing, at absolutely the wrong time! Indeed, many of the "Normal" Economic fixes applied via both the Austrian & Keynesian Economic schools of thought, which have previously been successfully used, will now prove to be largely ineffective

That said, targeted change, to reduce expenses & primary consideration going to improving Productivity, is absolutely the correct thing, as this once in history combination of Economic drivers will continue to impact on us Locally & Globally, for decades to come.

WE NEED NEW APPROACHES/SOLUTIONS TO THESE PROBLEMS, WHICH ARE FAR FROM "NORMAL"!

And, that applied to both major parties.

The problem is, when the Libs win the forthcoming election, they will implement their standard fix (across the board Austerity) and it is simply the worst option, for a bad time!

You can go ahead and bury your head in the sand & pretend it will all go away? The problem is YOUR SOLUTION IS WRONG AT THIS TIME & IT WILL MAKE A BAD SITUATION WORSE!

Dale Ftard wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 7:42pm:

If the ALP folds like a pack of cards you should take it up with them. Just naming it a "super profits" tax evokes Orwelliancommunist nightmare in the population of normal people. It was a complete balls up from start to finish by Rudd, Swan and Gillard who between them know nothing of business and less about mining. These clowns should be nowhere near economic policy levers. They are outright dangerous.

Just naming it a "super profits" tax evokes Orwelliancommunist nightmare

I would have thought that the fact that it only applies to companies making super profits and only on the super part of the profit would qualify.

i.e. a 30% tax on profit over $75 Million minus deductions +  minus state royalties+ minus a projects allowance of 25%

effective tax rate of 22.5% on profit over $75M after deductions  and royalties.

A profit of over $75M is considered a super profit.

Maqqa wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:21pm:

PN Your posts in regards to this deserves no answer because you will demonise the LIBs for cuts but applaud the ALP for the very same cuts So you are not interested in a discussion Unless and until you admit there is a need for a cut because expenditure have skyrocketed under this Labor government - what is there to discuss Your interest was never about economic or budgetary debate

The Libs won't cut middle class welfare they will increase it. The very same cuts between the two groups are uncommon.

Dnarever wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:57pm:

Dale Ftard wrote on Jul 6th, 2013 at 7:42pm: If the ALP folds like a pack of cards you should take it up with them. Just naming it a "super profits" tax evokes Orwelliancommunist nightmare in the population of normal people. It was a complete balls up from start to finish by Rudd, Swan and Gillard who between them know nothing of business and less about mining. These clowns should be nowhere near economic policy levers. They are outright dangerous. Just naming it a "super profits" tax evokes Orwelliancommunist nightmare I would have thought that the fact that it only applies to companies making super profits and only on the super part of the profit would qualify. i.e. a 30% tax on profit over $75 Million minus deductions +  minus state royalties+ minus a projects allowance of 25% effective tax rate of 22.5% on profit over $75M after deductions  and royalties. A profit of over $75M is considered a super profit.

An example from back in 2010 except it hasn't taken into account that the ALP squibbed on the company tax rate reduction to 28%.
Revenue = $100 and
Expenses = $50
Your profit = $50
You can then subtract depreciation, with the allowance - set at 6 per cent.
So if RSPT allowance = $3
You are left with $50 - $3 = $47
The $47 is taxed at 40 per cent (the super tax).
So $47 x 0.4 = $18.80 and you are left with $ 28.20
The $28.20 is taxed again at 28 per cent (the company tax).
So $28.20 x 0.28 = $7.90 and you are left with $20.30.
That adds up to about a total tax of about 57 per cent.

Put that into millions or billions and you can see already investment would be threatened bu the greedy ALP. $100M or $100Bn revenue is nothing if the company and investors have spent years and $$$ in exploration and development an the greedy ALP want to tax them twice and think that a "super profit" is 6%??? WTF??

How would you like it if the govt turned around and decided that every dollar you earned was a "super profit" and were going to take 0.80c and leave you with 0.20c?

It's completely retarded.

Swagman wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 4:17pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 8th, 2013 at 10:58am: The state cannot afford to fornicate with the libertarian right any more It cannot afford not to. The Libertarian Right is where the State likely gets the majority of its revenue from......

Well if they hurry up with this NBN they will have a proper income again

SOB

http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

By the time the "You must have our system or none" Labor govt NBN is completed, 'everyone' will be mobile, with wireless devices.
Phones, 'iPads', mini-'iPads', laptops, mini laptops...etc.

bambu wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 6:01am:

By the time the "You must have our system or none" Labor govt NBN is completed, 'everyone' will be mobile, with wireless devices. Phones, 'iPads', mini-'iPads', laptops, mini laptops...etc.

There was a thread about this somewhere. It wont happen because they want to gouge us. I had to use my mobile internet for a week or so and it cost 100s of dollars and there was a 3g limit on it.

SOB

http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 6:40am:

bambu wrote on Jul 9th, 2013 at 6:01am: By the time the "You must have our system or none" Labor govt NBN is completed, 'everyone' will be mobile, with wireless devices. Phones, 'iPads', mini-'iPads', laptops, mini laptops...etc. That is now, but wait until everyone goes mobile, competition will bring the costs down. The NBN for most people will likely be unaffordable. There was a thread about this somewhere. It wont happen because they want to gouge us. I had to use my mobile internet for a week or so and it cost 100s of dollars and there was a 3g limit on it. SOB http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

Dale Ftard wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 1:10am:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 8th, 2013 at 11:57pm: Dale Ftard wrote on Jul 6th, 2013 at 7:42pm: If the ALP folds like a pack of cards you should take it up with them. Just naming it a "super profits" tax evokes Orwelliancommunist nightmare in the population of normal people. It was a complete balls up from start to finish by Rudd, Swan and Gillard who between them know nothing of business and less about mining. These clowns should be nowhere near economic policy levers. They are outright dangerous. Just naming it a "super profits" tax evokes Orwelliancommunist nightmare I would have thought that the fact that it only applies to companies making super profits and only on the super part of the profit would qualify. i.e. a 30% tax on profit over $75 Million minus deductions +  minus state royalties+ minus a projects allowance of 25% effective tax rate of 22.5% on profit over $75M after deductions  and royalties. A profit of over $75M is considered a super profit. An example from back in 2010 except it hasn't taken into account that the ALP squibbed on the company tax rate reduction to 28%. Revenue = $100 and Expenses = $50 Your profit = $50 You can then subtract depreciation, with the allowance - set at 6 per cent. So if RSPT allowance = $3 You are left with $50 - $3 = $47 The $47 is taxed at 40 per cent (the super tax). So $47 x 0.4 = $18.80 and you are left with $ 28.20 The $28.20 is taxed again at 28 per cent (the company tax). So $28.20 x 0.28 = $7.90 and you are left with $20.30. That adds up to about a total tax of about 57 per cent. Put that into millions or billions and you can see already investment would be threatened bu the greedy ALP. $100M or $100Bn revenue is nothing if the company and investors have spent years and $$$ in exploration and development an the greedy ALP want to tax them twice and think that a "super profit" is 6%??? WTF?? How would you like it if the govt turned around and decided that every dollar you earned was a "super profit" and were going to take 0.80c and leave you with 0.20c? It's completely retarded.

$100M or $100Bn revenue is nothing

Nothing to do with revenue - it is after everything profit over $75M

company and investors have spent years and $$$ in exploration and development

All with the benefit of huge government hand outs and tax breaks.

How would you like it if the govt turned around and decided that every dollar you earned was a "super profit"

No not every dollar, just the ones above $75 Million in profit after everything and then a bit more is deducted and the rate reduced.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 6:40am:

bambu wrote on Jul 9th, 2013 at 6:01am: By the time the "You must have our system or none" Labor govt NBN is completed, 'everyone' will be mobile, with wireless devices. Phones, 'iPads', mini-'iPads', laptops, mini laptops...etc. There was a thread about this somewhere. It wont happen because they want to gouge us. I had to use my mobile internet for a week or so and it cost 100s of dollars and there was a 3g limit on it. SOB http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

I've got BigPuddle wireless 4G, and get a pathetic 8 gigs a month for $60.

Go over, and it slows to a completely unusable 64kb/s.

I love its convenience, but, pricing-wise, it's an obscene scam which
can in no way be justified.

Dale Ftard wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 1:10am:

Put that into millions or billions and you can see already investment would be threatened bu the greedy ALP. $100M or $100Bn revenue is nothing if the company and investors have spent years and $$$ in exploration and development an the greedy ALP want to tax them twice and think that a "super profit" is 6%??? WTF??

An interesting perception, Dale?

However, I would suggest that $100 Billion is a large figure, not matter which way it is viewed, as backed up by the following website, which shows the Largest Corporate Annual Earnings of All Time, with the top earner being ExxonMobil in 2008 at $45.22Bn!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_corporate_profits_and_losses

Oh& btw, it should come as no surprise to anyone how much those company's in the Oil & Gas sector figure in the above all time earners list!

bambu wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 6:01am:

By the time the "You must have our system or none" Labor govt NBN is completed, 'everyone' will be mobile, with wireless devices. Phones, 'iPads', mini-'iPads', laptops, mini laptops...etc.

Wireless is more expensive, slower, less reliable and often not available.  It is really good and has a place for sure but no where near the best option for a primary at home service.

Nationalise the mines! Does this country belong to Clive and Gina or the other 22 million people who live on this continent?

Reduce politicians pay and perks - no more taxpayer-funded junkets or holidays. Get your snouts out of the trough.

Bring Australian troops home from the current deployments in 12 (yes 12) different countries.

True Colours wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 8:30pm:

Nationalise the mines! Does this country belong to Clive and Gina or the other 22 million people who live on this continent? Reduce politicians pay and perks - no more taxpayer-funded junkets or holidays. Get your snouts out of the trough. Bring Australian troops home from the current deployments in 12 (yes 12) different countries.

No it dose not belong to Clive or Gina, our country belongs to 22 million people that live in "other" countries.
What would you have all our troops do once they are back home?

De-registered User wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 8:17am:

What would you have all our troops do once they are back home?

How about an Australian Defence Force that has a role of defending Australia? Bring them home and get them ready to defend Australia. Might need them to actually do some defending in a few years - unless you think China will somehow evolve into the world's benevolent friendly superpower, and won't throw their weight around like all superpowers before them.

Instead of squandering away Australia's treasure on fruitless overseas adventures, let's spend every cent in the defence budget ensuring that our defence force will actually be capable of defence when the time comes that it is needed.

Foreign deployments cost the Australian taxpayer $1billion a year. To put that in perspective, a treasurer recently ripped away $700 million from single mothers in an attempt to produce a budget surplus. Why do we throw cash away on fruitless adventuring around the world whilst taking support  away from the poorest here in Australia?

Foreign deployments do little for our economy and security. Add to this that being on the losing side in Afghanistan or the illegal side in Iraq does little to enhance Australia's prestige.

The real cost of deployments are not obvious because the compensations claims from returned soldiers suffering PTSD and whatever else are not factored into costs. There are many Australian children growing up without fathers because of these deployments.

Labor always spends and spends

That way, they can justify the overseas loans they always indulge in

Hawke's still cruising around, you know.  That little bastard rat

and Keating, prematurely aged, is still trying to play elder-statesman.  Keating, with his Grade Eight education and his ten months actual employment, now whining about 'rabble' at the Cross as he fingers his antique clocks in his Italian suit --- all gained, apparently, on a low income and what remained of that low income after sending four kids to private schools while his wife never worked

Amazing, really

Now will they just effing die and get out of my pocket !

True Colours wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 9:06am:

De-registered User wrote on Jul 10th, 2013 at 8:17am: What would you have all our troops do once they are back home? How about an Australian Defence Force that has role of  defending Australia? Bring them home and get them ready to defend Australia. Might need them to actually do some defending in a few years - unless you think China will somehow evolve into the world's benevolent friendly superpower, and won't throw their weight around like all superpowers before them. Instead of squandering away Australia's treasure on fruitless overseas adventures, let's spend every cent in the defence budget ensuring that our defence force will actually be capable of defence when the time comes that it is needed. Foreign deployments cost the Australian taxpayer $1billion a year. To put that in perspective, a treasurer recently ripped away $700 million from single mothers in an attempt to produce a budget surplus. WHy do we throw cash away on fruitless adventuring around the world whilst taking support  away from the poorest here in Australia?

Great post !

And on the subject of Hawke and Keating


it was Keating who, out of the generosity of OUR pockets, who undertook to give ... give ... Hazel Hawke how much ?  Two hundred and fifty thousand per year indexed, wasn't it ?

Now, we were already paying Hawke hundreds of thousands to live for free as reward for effing up our country

then Hawke traded Hazel in for that other thing

Well, you lot have been divorced, many of you.  Didn't you have to divvy up your marital assets with your ex ?

So how come Hawke didn't have to do the same ?

How come Keating decided we should pay Hawke and his new thingo

AND pay Hazel as well ?


And Keating got away with it

Hawke didn't say 'no'

Nor did Hazel

PZ547 wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 9:12am:

Labor always spends and spends That way, they can justify the overseas loans they always indulge in Hawke's still cruising around, you know.  That little bastard rat and Keating, prematurely aged, is still trying to play elder-statesman.  Keating, with his Grade Eight education and his ten months actual employment, now whining about 'rabble' at the Cross as he fingers his antique clocks in his Italian suit --- all gained, apparently, on a low income and what remained of that low income after sending four kids to private schools while his wife never worked Amazing, really Now will they just effing die and get out of my pocket !

All rubbish based on a dogmatic perception but when you look at actual facts you see Labor having cut back over a sequence of budgets and the Liberals with announced plans to spend up big time with no available funding to pay for what they are going to do.

True Colours wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 9:06am:

De-registered User wrote on Jul 10th, 2013 at 8:17am: What would you have all our troops do once they are back home? How about an Australian Defence Force that has a role of defending Australia? Bring them home and get them ready to defend Australia. Might need them to actually do some defending in a few years - unless you think China will somehow evolve into the world's benevolent friendly superpower, and won't throw their weight around like all superpowers before them. Instead of squandering away Australia's treasure on fruitless overseas adventures, let's spend every cent in the defence budget ensuring that our defence force will actually be capable of defence when the time comes that it is needed. Foreign deployments cost the Australian taxpayer $1billion a year. To put that in perspective, a treasurer recently ripped away $700 million from single mothers in an attempt to produce a budget surplus. Why do we throw cash away on fruitless adventuring around the world whilst taking support  away from the poorest here in Australia? Foreign deployments do little for our economy and security. Add to this that being on the losing side in Afghanistan or the illegal side in Iraq does little to enhance Australia's prestige. The real cost of deployments are not obvious because the compensations claims from returned soldiers suffering PTSD and whatever else are not factored into costs. There are many Australian children growing up without fathers because of these deployments.

Great post !

PZ547 wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 9:18am:

And on the subject of Hawke and Keating it was Keating who, out of the generosity of OUR pockets, who undertook to give ... give ... Hazel Hawke how much ?  Two hundred and fifty thousand per year indexed, wasn't it ? Now, we were already paying Hawke hundreds of thousands to live for free as reward for effing up our country then Hawke traded Hazel in for that other thing Well, you lot have been divorced, many of you.  Didn't you have to divvy up your marital assets with your ex ? So how come Hawke didn't have to do the same ? How come Keating decided we should pay Hawke and his new thingo AND pay Hazel as well ? And Keating got away with it Hawke didn't say 'no' Nor did Hazel

.

PZ547 wrote on Jul 10^th, 2013 at 9:12am:

Labor always spends and spends That way, they can justify the overseas loans they always indulge in Hawke's still cruising around, you know.  That little bastard rat and Keating, prematurely aged, is still trying to play elder-statesman.  Keating, with his Grade Eight education and his ten months actual employment, now whining about 'rabble' at the Cross as he fingers his antique clocks in his Italian suit --- all gained, apparently, on a low income and what remained of that low income after sending four kids to private schools while his wife never worked Amazing, really Now will they just effing die and get out of my pocket !

.