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General Discussion >> Federal Politics >> Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1373525391 Message started by dsmithy70 on Jul 11th, 2013 at 4:49pm |
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Title: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by dsmithy70 on Jul 11th, 2013 at 4:49pm
Off you go champ ;)
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 11th, 2013 at 4:51pm
Here's the transcript again, Grendal. Please highlight them all, and list your arguments for why Rudd is lying.
Cheers!!!  http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?action=downloadfile;file=ruddspeech_001.txt (23 KB | 46
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Honky on Jul 11th, 2013 at 5:19pm
Honest kev
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Aussie on Jul 11th, 2013 at 5:20pm
'Off you go champ.'
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by longweekend58 on Jul 11th, 2013 at 5:37pm Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 11th, 2013 at 4:49pm:
can we use the definition of 'lying' as used by lefties where a lie only has to be a prediction that fails or do we have to use the dictionary definition? I presume that being a discussion on labor then we use the Hypocritical Model of debate? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Aussie on Jul 11th, 2013 at 5:39pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 11th, 2013 at 5:37pm:
I'm content that Grendel use his definition. Shut up melielongtime. We are waiting for Grendel. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 11th, 2013 at 5:40pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 11th, 2013 at 5:37pm:
Fairrlllyy sure you're the one who was crying about the "big great budget surplus lie.' Anyway, can you start a new topic if you want to talk about definitions of lying? This topic is SPECIFICALLY FOR GRENDEL :) To highlight the 61 LIES FROM RUDD DURING HIS SPEECH. :) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Jul 11th, 2013 at 6:28pm longweekend58 wrote on Jul 11th, 2013 at 5:37pm:
lefties where a lie only has to be a prediction that fails Are you not one of the prawns claiming that missed budget forcasts are lies ??? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 11th, 2013 at 6:47pm Dnarever wrote on Jul 11th, 2013 at 6:28pm:
Ssshhhhhhh ... that was on a different thread, this thread is a totally different story |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 11th, 2013 at 7:03pm
Grendal?
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by cods on Jul 11th, 2013 at 7:14pm Aussie wrote on Jul 11th, 2013 at 5:20pm:
hey another one taking the micky out of pyscho kev this time the combover!!!!think psycho needs to take a leaf out of this guys book.. this looks so much better.. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by cods on Jul 11th, 2013 at 7:16pm Dnarever wrote on Jul 11th, 2013 at 6:28pm:
are you referring to the $1bn blow out for the boat people dna??..another misforecast we from the right are not surprised in fact we are sort of used to the mistakes coming from YOUR govt..we will be surprised if they ever get something right. ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by skippy. on Jul 11th, 2013 at 8:04pm
LOL I notice boofy is avoiding this thread like the plague.
:D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 11th, 2013 at 8:36pm
Sorry Skip I only just noticed it.
Wrong as usual eh... So where's the text hmmm... Gotta do everything myself eh. I won't be going into great depth on everything ok just the 61 I already noted. Lie1. Quote:
According to Tony Burke he recently stated that the government failed to change policy fast enough to adapt to the changing circumstances re boat people and people smuggling from Indonesia. A meeting of all stakeholders and the Industry involved was not held by Minister Garrett until after deaths had occurred due to the governments badly conceived Pink Batts scheme. The East Timor processing scheme... fail. Fuelwatch... fail. Grocerywatch... fail. The Malaysia people swap deal... fail. The MRRT... fail. The added cost due to changes to power pricing due to ALP/Green policies. All fails when it comes to implementation and the need for the government to change policy direction when it became necessary. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Jul 11th, 2013 at 8:45pm
Gee - the total still seems to be ZERO.
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by skippy. on Jul 11th, 2013 at 8:45pm Grendel wrote on Jul 11th, 2013 at 8:36pm:
So you lied when you said Rudd had told 61 lies, boof? We all knew you did, that is obviously why Smithy started this thread for you big fella. ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Aussie on Jul 11th, 2013 at 8:51pm Grendel wrote on Jul 11th, 2013 at 8:36pm:
Grendel, Old Chap. I dunno whether you are aware of it, but really this is your Waterloo. You made the bold claim that Rudd lied 61 times in his address to the Press Club today. Time to stump up Elde Fruit. Get on with it, or...................?? I reckon you should just take the hit on this one.....and get ready for more on other issues. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by skippy. on Jul 11th, 2013 at 8:54pm
Boofy never takes the hit,Aussie, you should know that by now. He would rather dig a bigger hole then hope the thread gets buried. We should keep bumping the thread. ;D
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 11th, 2013 at 9:09pm
I'm gonna do you all slowly...
1 lie at a time. I'm waiting for a sensible rebuttal not crap and bile. So far me 1... backed up by the F A C T S. ;) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Aussie on Jul 11th, 2013 at 9:11pm skippy. wrote on Jul 11th, 2013 at 8:54pm:
Well....okay, if you like. But....it has been a very good demonstration about how anyone who reads what is said can make a total tit of a poster who makes really silly claims they have absolutely zero chance of substantiating. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 11th, 2013 at 9:19pm
I'm still waiting... I can wait till tomorrow.. or later.
Is that all you've got? Nothing... ::) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Aussie on Jul 11th, 2013 at 9:25pm Grendel wrote on Jul 11th, 2013 at 9:19pm:
Let's make sure we are all on the same page. Mr Grendel it is true that you said that Rudd told 61 lies in his speech to the Press Club in Canberra today. *tick* It is true that you have been asked to list those 61 lies. *tick* Would you mind getting on with listing those aforesaid 61 lies? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Jul 11th, 2013 at 9:30pm Grendel wrote on Jul 11th, 2013 at 9:09pm:
There was nothing worth the effort, One piss ant opinion which was 70% incorrect and 30% irrelevant or maybe the other way around. Certainly no Lie to it. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 11th, 2013 at 9:54pm Grendel wrote on Jul 11th, 2013 at 8:36pm:
Weren’t most of those lies blocked by Mr Abbott in parliament? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 11th, 2013 at 9:58pm Grendel wrote on Jul 11th, 2013 at 9:09pm:
You haven't given any facts, only opinions .... you seem to struggle with understanding the difference between the two. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 11th, 2013 at 10:08pm Karnal wrote on Jul 11th, 2013 at 9:54pm:
No karnal and I am addressing your ignorant point. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 11th, 2013 at 10:10pm Aussie wrote on Jul 11th, 2013 at 9:25pm:
I'll list em all in my own good time. So far you lot have failed to rebut and failed to concede. So we haven't passed go yet, to get onto number 2. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 11th, 2013 at 10:11pm
What do you mean no text? I attachd it, and waiting for you to highlight 61 lies. I'll be satisfied by 40 :). Or even just 10.
Come on grendel, you don't say someone lies but then not back it up. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 11th, 2013 at 10:11pm John Smith wrote on Jul 11th, 2013 at 9:58pm:
No John you are ignoring the facts or refusing to recognise them. Either way not a good look or very constructive. Don't waste my time with having to refute and correct all of your opinions individually or we'll be here forever. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 11th, 2013 at 10:12pm
Thanks, Grendel. If you could address the 60 1/2 other lies as well it would be great.
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 11th, 2013 at 10:14pm
Patience karnal patience
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 11th, 2013 at 10:14pm Grendel wrote on Jul 11th, 2013 at 10:11pm:
so despite the fact that you've been told by everybody on this thread that you are full of crap, you are going to persist with your ridiculous claim? instead of telling everyone else they are wrong, why don't you explain why you think an opinion should be seen as a lie? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 11th, 2013 at 10:20pm
Grendel, I’ve asked Socrates and Generation X, but they won’t tell me. Why won’t Mr Abbott debate this Rudd charleton and rebut all those lies?
Apparently there’s this complicated legal reason, but I can’t make head or tail of it. Do you know? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 11th, 2013 at 10:54pm Karnal wrote on Jul 11th, 2013 at 10:20pm:
patience Karnal, patience. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 11th, 2013 at 11:01pm sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 11th, 2013 at 10:54pm:
Yes, I’m sure Mr Abbott will tell us his policies after the election. I doubt he’ll debate that liar Rudd though. Mr Abbott wants to surprise us. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 11th, 2013 at 11:05pm Karnal wrote on Jul 11th, 2013 at 11:01pm:
Yes. Rudd has told 61 lies. ANd they are so blatant we don't even know what they are! That damn Rudd and his lies. The liar. 61 lies. Mr Abbott has said THERE WILL BE NO CARBON TAX UNDER A GOVERNMENT I LEAD, and he means it!. IN fact, he will AX THE TAX, KEEP THE COMPENSATION and initiate the GREEN ARMY. All whilst delivering SURPLUS, SURPLUS, SURPLUS. Just wait and see leftards. Mr Abbott is a respectable man who doesn't stray from the well written and prepared statements. He has a plan for the first fortnight of the sitting parliament. ANd that is to AX THE TAX, IMPLEMENT DIRECT ACTION, and have a double dissolution election if necessary! |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 11th, 2013 at 11:12pm
Well alevine I've given you the chance to talk sensibly and refute what I said... so far all of you have failed to do so.
Is that then you conceding? Or is it too hard to admit. I don't mind debating politics with honest people I just don't like to waste my time with dribblers who can't admit or concede. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 11th, 2013 at 11:16pm
Yes, Alevine. Proof that there aren’t 61 lies, please.
You’re right about Mr Abbott though. He’s telling the truth. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 11th, 2013 at 11:29pm Grendel wrote on Jul 11th, 2013 at 11:12pm:
You are yet to provide anything within Rudd's speech that was a lie. You said you can provide 61 lines that were lies. Where are they? You talk of honest people, try being one. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 12th, 2013 at 12:44am
Patience Alevine patience.
Grendel won’t answer until an election date is announced. That’s the law. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 12th, 2013 at 12:54am
Mr Abbott had a good comeback for the journalists. He stood there at the doorstop and griped for a while about Rudd’s speech, and when they all said, well Rudd said you’d say that, you’re just being negative, Mr Abbott said, "well, well, come on... you’ve all been taking his phone calls when Julia Gillard was in power."
They were too. Constantly. Rudd was merciless with his leaks and distortions. How could they forget that? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 12th, 2013 at 11:34am Karnal wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 12:44am:
Nope just busy... will also look up some stats to back up lie 2 so you guys don't go into denial and ask me to do it later. ::) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by dsmithy70 on Jul 12th, 2013 at 11:59am Quote:
So lie number 1 is a personal opinion And to prove that personal opinion is a lie, we quote yet another personal opinion Quote:
So apparently because you have a different personal opinion to me by your definition , YOU Mr Grendal are a liar. Mate if that's all you've got we really did just waste bandwidth didn't we? Go peddle your bullsh!t over on Larry's site with Red, you'll be hailed as a hero there. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 12th, 2013 at 12:11pm Grendel wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 11:34am:
Maybe next time you should make your 61 lie claim when you're not so busy, Grendel. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 12th, 2013 at 12:12pm Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 11:59am:
So apparently because you have a different personal opinion to me by your definition , YOU Mr Grendal are a liar. Mate if that's all you've got we really did just waste bandwidth didn't we? Go peddle your bullsh!t over on Larry's site with Red, you'll be hailed as a hero there.[/quote] Patience dsmithy patience. Grendal is still collating 2 more lies for us. And then 58 more. Grendel is very diligent and our patience is required. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 12th, 2013 at 12:44pm
Oh I have no doubt that my time is wasted on people like you... but perhaps, just perhaps someone sensible will read this and see what rusted-ons you are.
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 12th, 2013 at 12:44pm
Lie 2.
Quote:
That is not true we are seen as a nation surrounded by a moat. One that even little boats from Indonesia or SriLanka can breech. One that spends less on defence than many other countries. One with relatively small numbers of personnel, which has decreased since the1990’s. We all know we have no weapons of mass destruction. So just how robust is our national security? The ADF is capable of providing only relatively small, 'special' forces for high intensity warfare. It’s logistic capabilities are insufficient to independently supply such forces deployed in areas distant from Australia. As a result, the ADF can only contribute forces to high intensity warfare outside of Australia's region when larger coalition partners provide logistical support. That is we cannot sustain our forces in large scale deployments in foreign countries or from outside aggressors on our own. How can this be described as a “robust” national security? If Labor keep taking the sword to defence spending and delaying replacement equipment etc how can we maintain or improve what we have. Remember Labor are not averse to cutting the defence budget. We are capable of undertaking peacekeeping operations around the world. The Navy's frigates and transport ships, the Army's light infantry battalions and the RAAF's transport aircraft are well-suited to peacekeeping. As opposed to “robust” national security. We have a large unprotected coastline and our small population and defence numbers cannot defend it “robustly”. Some say that during WWII this fact was uppermost in the government’s mind and the mythical “Brisbane Line” was bandied about as an acceptable tactic. Our current ADF has the capability to undertake only peacekeeping and low-intensity warfare operations independently in Australia's region. Think East Timor and the Solomon Islands. We could even aid our Pacific neighbours in their defence. But defending the Island Continent of Australia is another question altogether. ANZUS is our security blanket, not the robustness of our defence forces. Did not Obama at one stage call into question our on the ground contribution in Afghanistan? Surely if we were looked upon “as a nation underpinned by a robust national security”… then our ally and the leader of the free world would not be asking us for a greater effort and chiding us for not supplying it. Personally considering our population and the size of our defence forces I think we were actually pulling our weight. But it seems that even our allies do not agree with Kevin. I’m hoping I don’t need to mention; the Collins Class, the Abrahams, the F111s, etc, etc, etc… I’m hoping you all realize the situations with these purchases and in some cases, their replacements. http://www.defence.gov.au/ http://www.globalfirepower.com/ http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=Australia |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 12th, 2013 at 12:49pm Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 11:59am:
So apparently because you have a different personal opinion to me by your definition , YOU Mr Grendal are a liar. Mate if that's all you've got we really did just waste bandwidth didn't we? Go peddle your bullsh!t over on Larry's site with Red, you'll be hailed as a hero there.[/quote] Schmitty... you are an idiot mate. If you don't like the truth don't ask for it. :D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 12th, 2013 at 12:53pm Grendel wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 12:49pm:
Schmitty... you are an idiot mate. If you don't like the truth don't ask for it. :D [/quote] Refrain from insults. If you can't defend your opinion then don't reply. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 12th, 2013 at 12:55pm Grendel wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 12:44pm:
You want weapons of mass destruction? I'd saying given we've been a relatively safe and stable society, without ever a civil war and no where near the same devastation of "invasion" and war as other countries that it is justified to have an opinion that our national security is quite robust and strong. So once again your "lie" is not in fact a lie. 60 to go? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 12th, 2013 at 12:55pm Quote:
Just posting the truth alevine I suppose it it ok to lie and ridicule others eh, like schmitty did...but flames cannot be returned. My opinion of you keeps going down. Oh and alevine even I thought you could work out the lie has been highlighted ::) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 12th, 2013 at 12:57pm Grendel wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 12:55pm:
Who is lying about others on this thread, Grendel? And you're just posting the truth, are you? Really want to keep going, or don't you think it's wiser to apologise? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 12th, 2013 at 12:58pm sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 12:57pm:
puhlease don't waste my time. I'm arguing the facts, it is you lot playing the man and attacking with ad hom and failing to refute. Ignoring the lie shows you to be incredibly disingenuous. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by dsmithy70 on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:02pm
Opinion....Fact
Fact.......Opinion Their interchangeable you know ;) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:03pm Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:02pm:
not really... a lie is not a truth a truth is a fact. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:04pm Grendel wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 12:58pm:
we aren't the ones calling others idiots. Learn to keep your tongue tied when you have nothing of worth to add to a conversation. One would think as an adult you're mature enough. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:05pm Grendel wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:03pm:
Exactly. So how can you place a truth on an opinion? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:09pm
Anyway, moving along. I'm going to assume you think that our national security is not strong and robust because we don't have weapons of mass destruction and we have asylum seekers arriving by boats, each a terrorist in disguise eager to blow us all up.
As smithy mentions, Rudd did not give you factual information with regard to our national security. He simply raised an opinion that Australia's national security is strong and robust. And given that Australia has been a nation relatively free from war and terror, I'd tend to agree with that OPINION. What else you got? 60 to go. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by dsmithy70 on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:14pm Grendel wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 12:58pm:
No your arguing that in your opinion we do not have a robust National Security. You may well have a point, its been well know since the end of WWII Australia could not defend itself against invasion of a larger force & we have always counted on 1st the British & now the Americans will come to our aid. We made the down payment for that with blood by supporting every British & every American armed incursion into foreign lands, from the Boer War right up to Afghanistan. However where you come unstuck is attributing this to Rudd only, every PM has declared we have a "Robust National Security" but in the spirit of the game I give it to you, its a LONG bow but yes Australia cannot defend itself alone. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:18pm sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:09pm:
You'd assume wrong, but our national security would be more robust if we did have them. Not something I advocate at this time. Are you agreeing with me that we do not have robust national security... I mean it is hard to back up when hundreds of wooden boats arrive continuously with unidentified people on board. As for your squirming re the FACTS... Rudd said and i repeat... And the core fact is this: Australia is seen around the world as one of the strongest economies, one of the most stable societies, as well as a nation underpinned by a robust national security. Well... are we? I posted facts that both show we are not and that even an ally disagrees. Seeing a fact is a truth and what he claimed was a fact was untrue... then he lied. let me know when the penny drops. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by bogarde73 on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:18pm
It could if we had nuclear weapons . . .and we could.
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:27pm Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:14pm:
Would one suggest though that a robust national security means one can defend themselves alone? I'd argue that given our population we would never really have certainty of defending ourselves on our own. But with the number of treaties we have, I'd say that's what makes us robust. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:30pm bogarde73 wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:18pm:
for what purpose? To be seen as aggressors? Nuclear weapons don't underpin national security. They only seek to aggrevate a situation, as was shown during the cold war (along with all the wasted money that was spent on them), as is shown with countries now trying to get them. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:33pm Grendel wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:18pm:
Rudd is saying that iother countries around the world have that opinion of Australia. He isn't saying himself that it's a fact that Australia has a robust national security. So again, whilst you're arguing that Australia doesn't have a robust national security, Rudd never laid claim to that being a fact. And robust national security prevents attacks on Australia. Last I checked no asylum seeker has attacked Australia. And it's not a fact that nuclear weapons make a robust national security. That's your opinion. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:36pm Quote:
I did not attribute it only to Rudd. That is a lie. Remember we are discussing his speech and the lies therein. Not anyone or anything else. He made a claim and it was false. I don't care who makes such a claim, at current levels of our defence force it is a lie. If China or Indonesia decided to invade we'd be in all sorts of trouble. The US are good friends to Indonesia too you know. They'd probably delay any direct action and try talking Indonesia out of invading us. As for China that is a completely different ball game. Remember the UK have abandoned us before and we had to go to the US for help. Our geography is in our favour in some respects, but given the right planning by an invading force that advantage can be negated. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by bogarde73 on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:37pm
as was shown during the cold war
What was shown in the cold war - apart from the fact that Alec Guinness made a great spy chief - was that democracy prevailed and the great experiment of the socialist world failed. As it will fail whenever and wherever it is attempted. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:37pm Grendel wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:36pm:
He made a claim that Australia is seen around the world to have a strong economy and robust security. That may explain why we have such a huge foreign investment? Perhaps because there is truth to that claim? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:37pm Grendel wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:18pm:
Grendel, are you saying Australia is a security risk? Do you think Mr Abbott should get in early and mount a counter-attack? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:39pm bogarde73 wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:37pm:
Yes the communist world collapsed on itself, and if you really review the history of the events you could really see that one of the main reasons for the collapse was the expenditure on trying to stay neck and neck with America in the arms race. So, America having nuclear weapons didn't deter USSR from having nuclear weapons. In fact, it only made the USSR want more and more. And ended up completely bankrupting the economy. Robust security with nuclear weapons? me thinks not. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:40pm Quote:
I already posted the facts alevine you keep trying to squirm out of it. I am against nuclear weapons so stop lying about me or I'll have to call you an idiot or a liar or some other appropriate epithet. We cannot defend ourselves if a determined invader decided we were ripe for the picking. Hence our national security is not robust. Please provide a quote from other countries who have said as much. Quote:
He did and I already posted that and refuted it. ::) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by dsmithy70 on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:43pm
You've got 1( a generous 1 at that)
However you claimed 61 Lets get on with it, at this rate we'll be here until 2050 just getting to 10. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:44pm Grendel wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:40pm:
He did and I already posted that and refuted it. ::)[/quote] Quote:
sorry I jumped the gun and assumed mass destruction meant nuclear. Did you mean chemical? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:45pm Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:43pm:
But Grendel, please note that it's really a 0.10 that we're giving you, but we have to round up giving a lie is a whole or nothing. So you're lucky. And yes, please proceed with the other 60. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 12th, 2013 at 2:45pm Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:43pm:
So far I'm actually 2 for 2 smithy... :) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 12th, 2013 at 2:49pm sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 1:44pm:
Quote:
sorry I jumped the gun and assumed mass destruction meant nuclear. Did you mean chemical?[/quote] You people keep complaining.... yet you keep delaying the debate with your nonsense. You do know that chemical and biological weapons are deemed weapons of mass destruction don't you? Quote:
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 12th, 2013 at 2:54pm Grendel wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 2:49pm:
sorry I jumped the gun and assumed mass destruction meant nuclear. Did you mean chemical?[/quote] You people keep complaining.... yet you keep delaying the debate with your nonsense. You do know that chemical and biological weapons are deemed weapons of mass destruction don't you? Quote:
So you then did mean chemical? Or biological? Anyway I'm terribly sorry for debating your points with you Grendel. Please continue to the next lie without any further interruption. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by dsmithy70 on Jul 12th, 2013 at 2:59pm Grendel wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 2:45pm:
Again, Personal Opinion confused for Facts/Truth :D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 12th, 2013 at 3:02pm
Please continue Grendel.
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 12th, 2013 at 5:29pm Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 2:59pm:
You people don't learn do you.... ::) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 12th, 2013 at 5:32pm sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 3:02pm:
Please continue, Grendel. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 12th, 2013 at 5:36pm
For the other slow learner...
Quote:
Please read everything I post... I don't post it for no reason and it would save me having to re post as I have had to do for you lot several times now. That tends to slow things down a bit :o FYI they are all classed as WMDs... see the info posted previously. ::) Quote:
I don't mind debate at all it's all the rest of the crap you lot subject people to that is tedious and odious. You may debate points in a strange ignorant manner, but you all fail when it comes to refutation and are painful and wayward when it comes time to concede. Once more I will wait till you do either. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 12th, 2013 at 5:40pm Grendel wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 5:36pm:
I don't mind debate at all it's all the rest of the crap you lot subject people to that is tedious and odious. You may debate points in a strange ignorant manner, but you all fail when it comes to refutation and are painful and wayward when it comes time to concede. Once more I will wait till you do either.[/quote] ? What does this mean? Quote:
Anyway, anyway, Grendel, please continue to lie #2. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 12th, 2013 at 5:48pm sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 5:40pm:
I've been busy most of the day and not had time to check on the list ... is he only up to number 2? I would have thought that with 61 lies, he'd be busting to get them out ... show everyone what a liar Rudd is ... I'm starting to suspect it isn't Rudd doing the lying. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 12th, 2013 at 5:50pm John Smith wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 5:48pm:
Nope, he's been busy "educating" us. I'm very close to putting him into the whitey file and just moving along. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 12th, 2013 at 5:51pm John Smith wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 5:48pm:
You guys let me know when we can move on ok. I'm patient. Even with time wasters. ::) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 12th, 2013 at 5:52pm sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 5:50pm:
sigh.... I don't recall using the word "educating" alevine |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 12th, 2013 at 5:54pm Grendel wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 5:51pm:
what was number 1 if you don't mind gretel? I haven't the time to go through 6 pages ..... |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by GeorgeH on Jul 12th, 2013 at 5:55pm
6 pages and no real lie? that is roach, b o r i n g little rightwing mass debator!
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 12th, 2013 at 5:56pm
actually I don't know a gretel or a grendal...
you guys are great time wasters I must say Good thing I'm so patient eh. ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 12th, 2013 at 5:57pm St George of the Garden wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 5:55pm:
So they are not real lies eh Monk... unreal lies perhaps? half-truths, exaggerations, fabrications... all lies I'm afraid Monk. I'm actually a LW Conservative Monky ol' Boy, Jovial Monk, HBS Guy, George H etc. wake me up when you guys are ready... ::) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 12th, 2013 at 5:58pm
***FILED***
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Aussie on Jul 12th, 2013 at 6:40pm Grendel wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 5:57pm:
I'm ready: |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Aussie on Jul 12th, 2013 at 7:21pm
*phlip you phucker*
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Aussie on Jul 12th, 2013 at 7:21pm
*phlip 2 phucker*
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 12th, 2013 at 7:27pm
I know exactly how she feels... ::)
Lie 3 (lie by inference) For these reasons, it is just plain wrong for anybody in our national political debate to be talking Australia down. Having already shown our defence is not so robust as he claimed Rudd is already off to a bad start. He is saying here that any criticism of the government, or its policies, or the economy… is talking Australia down. He is inferring (as ever) that Abbott and the Opposition are doing just that. They are not. When in Opposition, he did the exact same things the Opposition have been doing. Then, he called it messing with Howard’s mind. Criticism, dissent and indeed policy amendment, are things done by all parties and even some independents, it is not talking Australia down. His inference is that Abbott and the Coalition are talking Australia down, and so are not doing their job. They are the Opposition, and as such they are the major voice Australians have to disagree with the government. To hold them to account. It is not wrong for them to do so. It is not “plain wrong” at all. It is expected and necessary that in our national political debate there are voices of dissent. Hence Rudd has lied yet again, and proved himself disingenuous and hypocritical at the same time. It is important that anyone in politics should be an honest broker and provide the population with correct information at all times. Pity that during elections the truth is often hard to discern especially when the rusted-on fail to address reality whilst barracking for their “team”. (Now that last para is indeed my opinion.) You can lump in Lie 4... with that as well. But that is different to a daily diatribe of negative politics whose single objective is to cause the Australian people to feel that our national economy and our national security is on the verge of falling apart – if not now, then certainly by next Thursday afternoon. It ain't daily, not necessarily negative and certainly does not have the single objective he mentions. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by skippy. on Jul 12th, 2013 at 7:31pm
Wow boofy certainly has problems. :D
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 12th, 2013 at 7:32pm skippy. wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 7:31pm:
Care to elaborate and cut the pointless ad hom for a change skip? no? how unusual. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 12th, 2013 at 7:59pm
So in actual fact, Grendel, Rudd has driven the economy into the ground, ruined our national security, utterly destroyed our country for generations to come, but he wants pointing this out to be illegal. Like Stalin or Mao.
Good heavens, and that’s only 3 lies. This can only get much worse. These leftards are appalling! |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 12th, 2013 at 9:25pm Karnal wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 7:59pm:
I've been ignoring you karnal. I gather you are not wondering why. Since I'm a LWer and conservative by nature, I doubt I call all members of the Left leftards or think they are all appalling. interesting no refutation about as usual. ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Aussie on Jul 12th, 2013 at 9:31pm Grendel wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 9:25pm:
There is nothing to refute. You have not established even one lie in what Rudd said in that speech, and I have already posted my reasons. I am not going to post them again. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 12th, 2013 at 9:49pm Grendel wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 7:27pm:
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I can't wait to get to 61, just think of the possibilities Lie 61 (lie by ESP) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by scope on Jul 12th, 2013 at 10:41pm John Smith wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 9:49pm:
I,d just like to see 1 lie to start with , so far zilch, zip, nada |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 12th, 2013 at 10:51pm Grendel wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 9:25pm:
I couldn’t refute your insight, Grendel. You probably ignore me because I’m not as smart as you. These leftards are vile. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 10:02am scope wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 10:41pm:
Well in order to "see" you'd need an open mind and then you can open your eyes... if that doesn't work... then getting an adult to explain things to you might help but them I'm thinking that might be beyond you. :D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 10:04am
No refutation yet again... gee I'm on a roll.
I'll give you guys a few more hours to get things in motion shall I? 4/4... |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Generation X on Jul 13th, 2013 at 10:44am
Rudd's 61 lies?
No, No, No! He has covered himself, his now famous saying is "Circumstances Change" and then put the guilt onto Australian tax payers and says "We Have to Change". I in return say "F#%K YOU KEV" YOU AND YOUR F*#KED UP LABOR PARTY HAD THE CHANCE" YOU ARE RIGHT ONLY IN ONE THING KEV! WE HAVE TO CHANGE!" It is not lies, it is incompetence on behalf of the Labor Government and this is the FACT! |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:01am
Lie 5
He is the most conservative politician to become leader of the Liberal Party in its history. really? And how would Kevin the great measure this conservativeness...? who has he measured it against? this is just Labor propaganda it infers that being a conservative is a bad thing. However crazy Kevin has forgotten that he once sold himself to the public as being a big conservative himself. ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:01am
Well we all know GEN X just how disingenuous Crazy Kevin is.... some of us ignore it, some of us recognise it but don't care, some of us point it out.
I prefer the latter option... ignorance isn't really bliss... it is just ignorance. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:03am Karnal wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 10:51pm:
I'd only ignore you if you kept saying stupid non-factual things karnal. Got nothing to do with both our levels of intelligence. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Kat on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:04am
smack me!
Is this total waste of bandwidth still going on? (Reaches for another Oxycodone.... SNORE!!!!). |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:07am Kat wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:04am:
Thanks kat for your total lack of refutation... keep up the good work ;) I'm pretty sure we'll have lots of time till Kevin calls the election. I do agree though... kevin is a total waste of bandwidth. ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by mantra on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:09am Grendel wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 7:32pm:
No. 2 is not a lie. Abbott continually undermined Gillard's leadership inferring that we were going downhill fast. It spread fear. Abbott is the liar. By talking down the work of a government - you create instability and uncertainty, not only nationally, but internationally. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:10am Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:01am:
Well I dont see where you have proven its a lie. Of course rudd is a conservative but abbott is way more conservative. Who do you think was a more conservative leader of the libs? SOB |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Kat on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:10am Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:07am:
Not lack of refutation, mate. Lack of interest in the topic, well not so much that as the way it's being 'debated'. I DID try, though, last night...... |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:12am
Has grendel provided actual evidence for ANY lies yet?
SOB |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Kat on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:13am Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:12am:
Evidence? EVIDENCE????!!! We don' need no steenkin' 'evidence'...... (To be read in stereotypical 'Mexican Bandido' lingo). |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:17am mantra wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:09am:
this is lie 2 mantra Quote:
If you are going to participate at least get on track, it is there in black and white. As for your concern re an opposition doing an opposition's job... pull the other one, there have been bipartisan support for many things and don't forget 86% of legislation was passed by the Libs as well. If you want to look at negativity you don't need to look further than the ALP... and their blame... Abbott, Abbott, Abbott mantra... mantra. ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:19am Kat wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:10am:
Well kat I didn't start the topic... :D ;D ;D ;D Like I said... no refutation... plenty of ad hom but then that is what LW Progs are known for isn't it. All bile, piss and wind, but no facts. Latham was right... Labor knows how to hate. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:21am
Actually there was refutation but you ignored it and replied to the off topics instead.
SOB |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:27am Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:21am:
Nope... talking about factual truthful stuff Spotty... I ignore nothing. Not even karnal truth be known, just don't answer his nonsensical crappy stuff. Happy to concede when I'm proven wrong. Ad hom don't cut it. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:38am Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:10am:
Bump SOB |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:42am
I’ve been agreeing with you, Grendel. Just remember one thing. Despite those 61 lies, the people will vote on only one thing:
Only Mr Abbott will STOP THE BOATS. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:51am
Personally karnal... I think STOP THE BOATS is a slogan worth aiming for. Don't you?
I think most people understand what it actually means. Don't you? I don't necessarily agree with either party's policies on how to go about it. Obviously Labor's is a total failure. I'd think that is undeniable. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:18pm
OK nothing but nothing and ad hom
let's move on Lie 6 He is particularly formidable in the art of negative politics. Really? This is simply more propaganda from Crazy Kevin and the ALP. The same negative tactics that they use almost daily ad nauseam. From day one they saw Abbott as a liability and they painted him as Dr No. The same is echoed by their media mates. To disagree with Labor doesn't mean you are being negative. If one disagrees with a bad policy that is not "negative politics". The negative politics I see, is the constant ad hom attacks and disingenuousness mostly coming from the ALP. It is the non-answers to simple questions put to the government in question time. It is things like Gillard's misogyny rant, or Kevin's lying. These are negative politics. And it is the ALP not Abbott who are formidable in the art of it, especially when they employ people like McTernan and Hawker. To the ALP it is just spin... but in reality it is simply lies. Abbott's criticism of the ALP and its policies is well founded most of the time, unlike the kill the messenger attacks on Abbott. They have been relentless from day one. Gillard called it a game. Abbott has been blamed for every natural disaster and policy failure this government can think of. Now that is negative politics Kevvy. The guy is a lifesaver, he's in the bushfire brigade, he does charitable works, he lives with aborigines on remote locations helping and teaching... how is any of that negative and how does someone who does such works suddenly become Mr Negative. Truth be known, he doesn't. What we have is spin and playing the man, repeat a lie often enough is the ALP mantra... so here we have Kevin repeating it yet again. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:22pm Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:18pm:
So obviously you cant answer my question or back up your assertion he is lying since you ignored it again. SOB |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:22pm Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:38am:
Pity we are up to 6 now Spotty... So how do you measure conservatism? Rudd runs the parliament church group... not Abbott, does that make him more conservative? Menzies was a traditionalist and a monarchist in a fashion I think Abbott does not come close to. Personally I think Crazy Kev is just a liar. Something no one here has been able to disprove so far. BTW Spotty this site has a glitch that stops posts from coming up and being seen. I suggest you relax and stop making false accusations. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:28pm Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:51am:
The Libs and Greens opposed all Labor attempts to STOP THE BOATS. In Abbott’s case, he did so solely to keep the boats coming - that, I think, is undeniable. The policies on refugees have always been bipartisan. Only since Howard has this issue been used to create a political wedge. In this case, Abbott has done this with people’s lives. With this record, how can Abbott really be trusted to create a workable, regional solution? So far, he has only played politics. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by mantra on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:29pm Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:18pm:
How is that a lie? Abbott is only good at being an attack dog. Most of the time you don't have a clue what his attack is about - only that he revs up the haters and regressives. He has nothing positive to say about the future of this country. His political stance is always negative. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by philperth2010 on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:31pm Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:18pm:
The attack adds from the Coalition support Rudd's claim about Abbott's negative politics......Nothing about policy from Mr Abbott only negative diatribe to talk down the economy and promote a fear of asylum seekers.....Mr Abbott's prediction the carbon tax would be wrecking ball through the economy was crap like most of his negative rhetoric!!! ::) ::) ::) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by MOTR on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:41pm
It would seem anyone who forms an opinion outside Grendel's perspective on all matters is a liar.
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:43pm Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 10:02am:
nope ... a lie is a lie ... an open or closed mind does not change that ... an open mind only aids you in your quest to re- invent the definition of a lie |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:46pm John Smith wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:43pm:
Yes John but even though you are correct that a lie is a lie.... some people's attitudes prevent them from acknowledging them. A lie is an untruth. A lie ignores the facts. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:49pm Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:18pm:
See my post above. Mr Abbott says he wants to turn boats back to Indonesia, but refused to vote in a policy that sent boat people to.Malaysia. Why? Because Malaysia isn’t a signatory to the refugee convention. And neither is Indonesia. Mr Abbott demanded Labor reopen Nauru and Manus Island, and it did. To comply, Nauru had to sign the refugee convention. And it did. The legislation was drafted to overturn the High Court’s ruling on offshore processing. What happened? Mr Abbott said no. And this, in the aftermath of a boat sinking off Christmas Island, a tragedy that killed nearly two hundred people. However, lets put all this aside and see what Mr Abbott proposes to do instead, shall we? "A raft of measures", "proven to work", "deterants", "taking the sugar off the table", "breaking the people smuggler’s business model", "behavioural protocols,", and, when it is safe to do so, "turn back boats". What exactly does all this mean? Who knows? But one thing is clear: only Mr Abbott will STOP THE BOATS. How? That’s easy. He’ll just say no. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:53pm Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:22pm:
What false accusations would those be? If you didnt see them when why did you see the ones after them? And how did you know what i was talking about? You are the one that is saying rudd lied about abbott being the most conservative so who do you think was more conservative? SOB |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:54pm Quote:
Sorry Phil but if you want to refute you must use FACTS not just ALP propaganda and spin. Feel free to actually refute anything I have said. No factual refutation is no refutation. You see Phil, Kevin agrees with much of the stuff you call negative Abbott. His ''national competitiveness agenda'' is designed to directly counter Mr Abbott's highly effective political critiques of Labor over cost-of-living pressures, the carbon tax, union militancy and broader economic management. Mr Rudd said his multi-pronged strategy involved unspecified action to address: * electricity prices which were too high by global standards; * rigidities that had crept into the labour market under the Fair Work Act and were inhibiting investment and jobs growth; * the failure of Australian business to fully engage with and expand within Asia; and * improvements in vocational education and training and infrastructure financing. http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/rudds-push-for-a-pact-20130711-2pt6p.html#ixzz2YtFldgoH So since when is constructive criticism by Abbott negative when you would obviously be calling it negative. IF kevin addresses those concerns I'd be calling it positive. kevins certainly seems to think they needed addressing. Feel free to try and refute. ::) ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:58pm
Spotty you accused me of ignoring stuff I had not at that point seen.
You need to have some patience Spotty and not accuse people falsley Unfortunately I' don't sit here 24 hrs a day and unfortunately this site is not functioning at 100%. ignoring |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 13th, 2013 at 1:01pm Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:46pm:
so what part of that relates to an inference? or are you simple ignoring the 'facts'? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 2:23pm
One at a time people one at a time... patience there is only me at this end.
Quote:
Nope just conjecture on your behalf and not the truth either. The Libs have from day 1 asked, begged, told the government to re-implement the Howard government's pacific solution. Rudd when he first came in started undoing all what Howard had put in place. That is not Abbott saying NO at all. Finally the government started to reapply the Pacific Solution measures but as yet they have no implemented them all. Why not. If it fails they could have used it against the liberal party. were they afraid it might have worked. With their allies the Greens labor could have passed their policies. But not only the Greens but the courts themselves stopped labor changing laws to aid them in implementing the rather hasty and poorly negotiated malaysian solution. I hardly consider an 5 for 1 swap equitable. Quote:
Really. Could it be that the ALP who now consider themselves a purely progressive party were on a membership drive? The Howard policy saw an end to the people Smuggling problem Rudd's meddling reintroduced it. If you want to talk lives or deaths you need look no further. Quote:
So far he is only opposition leader. what has 6 years of Labor done? Answer.... nothing constructive. just ask the Indonesians. :o Like I said the Libs have criticised a failed policy... that is not negative. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by ian on Jul 13th, 2013 at 2:29pm
I would vote for Abbot if he had an effective solution, but he doesnt, he is just a bobble head on a stick.
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 2:32pm mantra wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:29pm:
Well I'd say you are ignorant or a liar but I know that would just upset you and you'd run to the mods and annoy them... so I won't. The Coalition has policies. "Battlelines" was just amended and re-released. The Coaltion's main theme is HOPE mantra. A hard thing to turn into a negative. It remains very positive about the country's future. But it doesn't ignore the policies and incompetence of the last 2 ALP ALP/Green governments. Neither would any sane person. Those who ignore the past, condemn the future... |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 2:33pm ian wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 2:29pm:
thank you for that constructive piece of advice... ::) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 13th, 2013 at 2:33pm Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 2:23pm:
the libs have criticised EVERYTHING .... not just failed policies ..EVERYTHING .... find one positive thing they have acknowledged over the last 3 years? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 2:35pm Quote:
Sorry John cant tell what you are referring to without a proper reference. Ruddy tells so many lies by inference and omission, apart from the downright obvious ones it's hard to keep track of them. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 13th, 2013 at 2:46pm Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 2:23pm:
Really. Could it be that the ALP who now consider themselves a purely progressive party were on a membership drive? The Howard policy saw an end to the people Smuggling problem Rudd's meddling reintroduced it. If you want to talk lives or deaths you need look no further. Quote:
So far he is only opposition leader. what has 6 years of Labor done? Answer.... nothing constructive. just ask the Indonesians. :o Like I said the Libs have criticised a failed policy... that is not negative.[/quote] It wasn’t a failed policy, it was a policy that was never voted through parliament because the Libs opposed it. The government’s advice - from Immigration and the Huston panel was that the Pacific Solution implimented "in full" would not work anymore. The advice Tony Burke has just received from his department is that the Malaysian "solution" would not work now either. The numbers of arrivals are now too high. The time for that policy - like the Pacific Solution - has now passed. This is a sensible discussion on a complex problem. Repeating the same old policies and behaviours does not always work. STOP THE BOATS is a nice idea, but how? The Pacific Solution is no solution at all, which we’ll all find out when the Libs get in. What then? Vote Abbott back out in three years? That doesn’t fix the problem either. This policy needs to be bipartisan and free of wedge politics to work. And yes, in hindsight (although I thought differently at the time), it was a mistake to abandon the Pacific Solution. That doesn’t mean it would work today. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 2:52pm
let's tie lie 6 and lie 7 together then eh.
Lie 7. But a 100 per cent diet of negative politics is bad for our nation. For starters neither Abbott nor the Coalition have been 100% negative towards labor or politics in general. That is clearly an untruth. Ok who here is going to honestly try and deny it? Bipartisanship most recently on the NDIS, under Nelson on The Sorry and apparently 86% of legislation in the last Parliament. Libs and Greens have joined to amend or stop Labor policy. Libs and Labor have joined to see legislation passed. Yet Kevin says there has been "a 100 per cent diet of negative politics", tsk, tsk, tsk, kevin... telling porkies again. Is negative politics bad for a nation? yes... but to infer that is due to only one side or one person is a lie. In the context of Rudd's speech the lies keep on coming. As for negative politics I have already stated what I consider them to be. So far no refutation. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 13th, 2013 at 2:58pm Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 2:35pm:
Grendel wrote on Jul 12th, 2013 at 7:27pm:
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 2:58pm Quote:
Like I said FAILED policy. If you don't think what Rudd implemented and what has been implemented since is not failed policy then you are having a lend of yourself and are in denial. Facts are facts karnal. As for the one policy that never got off the ground you are obsessing about as opposed to what i was talking about... The libs are not in coalition with the ALP the greens were... blame them for not passing the legislation their partners wanted. Blame the courts for knocking it back. Blame the pathetic negotiators who came up with such a poor deal. If you want to go off topic and exclusively argue boat people policy seek such a topic or start another one. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 3:07pm John Smith wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 2:58pm:
Lets try to keep up and not keep backsliding here ok... you guys complained at how slow I was going... sheesh. Quote:
Having already shown our defence is not so robust as he claimed Rudd is already off to a bad start. He is saying here that any criticism of the government, or its policies, or the economy… is talking Australia down. He is inferring (as ever) that Abbott and the Opposition are doing just that. They are not. When in Opposition, he did the exact same things the Opposition have been doing. Then, he called it messing with Howard’s mind. Criticism, dissent and indeed policy amendment, are things done by all parties and even some independents, it is not talking Australia down. His inference is that Abbott and the Coalition are talking Australia down, and so are not doing their job. They are the Opposition, and as such they are the major voice Australians have to disagree with the government. To hold them to account. It is not wrong for them to do so. It is not “plain wrong” at all. It is expected and necessary that in our national political debate there are voices of dissent. Hence Rudd has lied yet again, and proved himself disingenuous and hypocritical at the same time. It is important that anyone in politics should be an honest broker and provide the population with correct information at all times. Pity that during elections the truth is often hard to discern especially when the rusted-on fail to address reality whilst barracking for their “team”. (Now that last para is indeed my opinion.) Quote:
It ain't daily, not necessarily negative and certainly does not have the single objective he mentions. Hope that helps. We all know the major Labor tactic is to attack Abbott at every opportunity anyone watching Australian politics is aware of that aware of the paint Tony as negative tactic, blame tony for everything tactic. Now if that isn't negative then what is. On almost a daily occurrence Mp after MP from Labor repeat the same lines re Abbott... somehow they slip them in even when they are totally off topic... repeat a lie often enough that is the tactic. Kevin is a master of it. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by philperth2010 on Jul 13th, 2013 at 3:12pm Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:54pm:
I have made my point.....The fact you fail to see Abbott has been negative is astounding really!!! ::) ::) ::) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 3:18pm Quote:
What point did you make Phil... ? I have seen Abbott be negative and the Libs mindlessly so. But nowhere near as much or as badly as the ALP. But what Rudd is inferring and saying is a lie. That is the topic here. Labor even eat their own Phil. have a nice day ;D ps. phil what you fail to acknowledge is that constructive criticism has led to labor having to address policy and implementation failures. that is a positive, not a negative. Hmmm i'm sure I said that before Phil. ::) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by mantra on Jul 13th, 2013 at 3:26pm Karnal wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 2:46pm:
Well said. It appears you also know that the Pacific Solution is no solution now, but you keep saying Abbott will stop the boats. He can't. I agree with the rest of your post. Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 2:32pm:
I wouldn't report you for something so tame, but it's funny how ninety percent of those who read your posts say the same to you and you say the same thing back to them. Most people are ignorant and liars - except you and according to you. You have actually given the best spiel in Abbott's defence that I've seen yet by any right whinger - even if you did make it up. Funny how you still call yourself a left wing. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Generation X on Jul 13th, 2013 at 3:39pm ian wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 2:29pm:
Having said that, you can not possibly vote for Rudd either, under your effective solution statement. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Generation X on Jul 13th, 2013 at 3:41pm ian wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 2:29pm:
Having said that about Abbott, then you can not possibly vote for Rudd either then can you. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 13th, 2013 at 3:41pm Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 2:58pm:
I do blame the Greens, but that’s not the lie that has been rebutted. This goes to the Libs’ negativity and obstruction solely for tactical political reasons. The High Court ruled on offshore processing. We have a separation of powers - we can’t blame the courts. But by asking me to do so, you conceed that the Libs are guilty of obstructing legislation aimed to prevent the one thing they have consistently campaigned on: STOP THE BOATS. If they wanted them stopped, they would have voted with the government, who took the policy from an independant panel. This clearly shows the Libs guilty of saying one thing, and doing another. It shows politicking of the most Machiavellian imagination. Mr Abbott did not want the boats stopped because it might have resolved his central campaign platform: STOP THE BOATS. This highlight’s Mr Abbott’s fundamentally negative stance and willful obstructionism. It shows Mr Abbott to be no more than a cunning political hack, a tactician of dirty tricks campaigns, dirt files and back room plots - a job usually reserved for political staffers, and not the alternative leader of the country. This rebuts lie 3. You now have 59 more lies to go. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by philperth2010 on Jul 13th, 2013 at 3:43pm Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 3:18pm:
Quote:
Have a nice day yourself.....Rudd was correct!!! ::) ::) ::) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by froggie on Jul 13th, 2013 at 3:43pm Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:22pm:
First thing I have agreed with, so far. Hoping this post will get me past P10. :D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by froggie on Jul 13th, 2013 at 3:44pm
YAY!!
:P |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 5:46pm
Sigh... I'm pretty sure we passed lie 3 ages ago karnal.
Quote:
I already have shown this to be untrue. Quote:
So by your logic you just blame the Libs instead? I'm not going to repost what you said to back that up it is here in the topic already. As I already proved voting against a policy that is bad is not a negative. 5 for 1 swap karnal. To a nation not a signatory of the UN Convention a point labor made time and time again as the excuse when it refused to accept Nauru. Hypocrisy abounds. This also does nothing to back up Rudd's lie. Quote:
I have no need to concede anything as yet. The malaysia policy was not formulated by an independent panel. Their ideas came later. BTW just because they formulate a policy doesn't make it a good one. Or one that needs to be supported. Quote:
No it doesn't. Quote:
No it doesn't. Quote:
No that is just your biased conjecture and is out of character with the man, but in line with ALP propaganda. Clearly this issue of the boats has not been the sole major issue over the last 6 years. Clearly the Carbon Tax has been a higher order issue for most of this time. The NBN at another and various other minor issues from time to time. Quote:
No it mainly highlights your political bias. Where are the facts. where is the proof. we have just your biased speculation. Quote:
Unsuccessfully. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by adelcrow on Jul 13th, 2013 at 5:53pm |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 6:01pm
So where were we oh yeah 7... no refutation.
Lie 8 And the truth is that it is a lazy substitute for the hard work that is needed to develop, argue and implement real policies that will change Australia for the better. That is why Mr Abbott has so far publicly stated that he does not want to face the public scrutiny of an economic policy debate here at the National Press Club of Australia. Right Kevvy back on the propaganda trail lying about the Coalitions lack of policy and labelling it lazy. calling Abbott a coward and turning it around to him not wanting to face the people. No one out Machievellis, Crazy Kev. Abbott has called for an election how is that avoiding the public? In an election there are scheduled leadership debates how is that avoiding Kev and the judgement of the people? Kev's method is... tell a lie often enough... If the Coalition was so lazy and bereft of ideas and concerns why is it Kev has reacted to these and come up with a so-called but as yet un-detailed "plan" to remedy the situation? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 6:02pm adelcrow wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 5:53pm: let's face it adelcrow you are a CONSPIRANUT. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 13th, 2013 at 6:04pm
No it doesn't karnal, no it doesn't.
Patience karnal, patience. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 6:06pm
got nothing as usual I see alevine. ::)
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 7:51pm
One last chance I guess... just for you KRuddy.
Where has Abbott ever stated; "I do not want to face the public scrutiny of an economic policy debate here at the National Press Club of Australia. " gee kev how're those hallucinations going? :D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Aussie on Jul 13th, 2013 at 8:06pm Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 7:51pm:
I think it was by way of 'inference.' |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 8:23pm Aussie wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 8:06pm:
So you think he was lying by inference. ok. :) personally I think it was more direct. ::) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 13th, 2013 at 9:24pm sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 6:04pm:
I have much patience, Alevine. Grendel didn’t agree with my rebuttal of lie 3, so I’ll rebut it again. The case: Mr Slipper. Mr Slipper was one of Mr Abbott’s old Liberal Party friends. Mr Abbott even went to his wedding. Somewhere along the line, as some friends do, they had a falling out, and Mr Slipper left the Libs, setting up shop for himself. JuLiar, feeling sorry for Mr Slipper and looking for an extra vote in the parliament, made him the Speaker. Mr Abbott was angry about this, and vowed to get his revenge. By making Mr Slipper speaker, Mr Abbott’s plans to destroy JuLiar’s minority government and become PM before the term was out had to be put on hold. Mr Abbott did not need to wait long for his revenge. An ex-staffer went to the Libs with shocking information: Mr Slipper was a powder puff! This was no news to Chris Pyne, Mr Abbott’s chief whip, but Chris Pyne wanted more - could they meet? The staffer had more - photocopies of Mr Slipper’s diary and expenses! There must be something there. After all, no one is innocent. Mr Abbott, who had once hunted down another politician and had her thrown in jail, Pauline Hanson, knew this all too well. To cut a long story short, it was decided to finger Mr Slipper for sexual harassment. All the staffer would have to do is sigh and say how dirty he felt. The Libs would take it from there. Before long, all the senior Libs were doing doorstop interviews and saying what a horrible crime sexual harassment was. How could the Labor Party, the champion of the underdog, condone such a terrible crime and continue to have Mr Slipper as speaker? It all came down to a private text message Mr Slipper sent his staffer. Mr Slipper made a joke about mussels and ladies’, well, unmentionables. That was enough. Mr Slipper had to go. Mr Abbott decided to propose a no confidence motion against Mr Slipper for being a sexist, a crook, and all-round cad. JuLiar said he needed proof - the matter was in court (the ex-staffer’s legal costs waived by a well-connected legal firm). JuLiar challenged Mr Abbott’s hypocrisy in a speech that went viral. It was, perhaps, her finest moment. But it was to no avail. Mr Slipper was forced to stand down, his reputation in ruins. The magistrate threw the case out of court, but it was too late. Mr Slipper was destroyed by his old friend Mr Abbott for his description of ladies, er, private parts. Oh, and his rampant hommersexuality. Mr Abbott got another political scalp. JuLiar lost her speaker. The staffer got a holiday in a sunny country. Rather than spend his time in opposition focusing on policies for the good of the country, Mr Abbott sought to bring the government down by any means necessary. And he did. Before long, JuLiar was taken down too, her head lopped off by her own friends and allies. Mr Abbott will be our next PM, but it will be a phyrric victory. When he gets to the top of the greasy pole, Mr Abbott will have nothing to do. Having spent all his time destroying things - policies, friendships, political careers, Mr Abbott will be a spent force. As Lady Macbeth says at the news of her husband’s death; "tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow..." "Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." And herein I rebut lie 3. Again. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 13th, 2013 at 9:24pm Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 3:07pm:
It ain't daily, not necessarily negative and certainly does not have the single objective he mentions. Hope that helps. We all know the major Labor tactic is to attack Abbott at every opportunity anyone watching Australian politics is aware of that aware of the paint Tony as negative tactic, blame tony for everything tactic. Now if that isn't negative then what is. On almost a daily occurrence Mp after MP from Labor repeat the same lines re Abbott... somehow they slip them in even when they are totally off topic... repeat a lie often enough that is the tactic. Kevin is a master of it. [/quote] you've only given me your opinion of it ... I want to see where Rudd lied. You said he lied 61 times .... put up or shut up |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 13th, 2013 at 9:25pm Aussie wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 8:06pm:
;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 13th, 2013 at 9:25pm
Only Mr Abbott can STOP THE BOATS.
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 9:27pm Karnal wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 9:25pm:
We are up to 8 karnal... I'm not wasting time going back to 3 just because you can't admit you are wrong. Sorry but the boat has left the dock. I'm not going to waste my time telling you each sentence you post is your opinion based on your political bias and unproven Labor rumour mongering and propaganda. BTW Abbott stayed out of the Slipper mess for a very long time and you are factually wrong about a great deal. Start another topic and I'll be glad to correct you. Rudd lied nothing you posted changes that. once again... Lie 3 (lie by inference) For these reasons, it is just plain wrong for anybody in our national political debate to be talking Australia down. Having already shown our defence is not so robust as he claimed Rudd is already off to a bad start. He is saying here that any criticism of the government, or its policies, or the economy… is talking Australia down. He is inferring (as ever) that Abbott and the Opposition are doing just that. They are not. When in Opposition, he did the exact same things the Opposition have been doing. Then, he called it messing with Howard’s mind. Criticism, dissent and indeed policy amendment, are things done by all parties and even some independents, it is not talking Australia down. His inference is that Abbott and the Coalition are talking Australia down, and so are not doing their job. They are the Opposition, and as such they are the major voice Australians have to disagree with the government. To hold them to account. It is not wrong for them to do so. It is not “plain wrong” at all. It is expected and necessary that in our national political debate there are voices of dissent. Hence Rudd has lied yet again, and proved himself disingenuous and hypocritical at the same time. It is important that anyone in politics should be an honest broker and provide the population with correct information at all times. Pity that during elections the truth is often hard to discern especially when the rusted-on fail to address reality whilst barracking for their “team”. (Now that last para is indeed my opinion.) You can lump in Lie 4... with that as well. But that is different to a daily diatribe of negative politics whose single objective is to cause the Australian people to feel that our national economy and our national security is on the verge of falling apart – if not now, then certainly by next Thursday afternoon. It ain't daily, not necessarily negative and certainly does not have the single objective he mentions. Like I said karnal Your Slipper argument doesn't hold water. happy to hear how Slipper is talking australia down though anytime you care to put it as such. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 13th, 2013 at 9:31pm
If I was you Gretel, I'd ignore this thread from now on ... each one of your 'lies' gets more and more desperate .. you are only making yourself worse.
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 9:33pm John Smith wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 9:31pm:
Ah winning by declaration and put down eh John. Sorry buddy it doesn't work like that. Put up or shut up, feel free to refute anything you can. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by skippy. on Jul 13th, 2013 at 9:39pm
Anybody heard the expression " don't feed the troll" ? Grendal is the worst kind, ignore him he will run way, always does. You can't argue with stupidity.
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 9:41pm
Come on Skip try your luck you'd have to do bett
er than the name callers and time wasters are doing. oh and Skippy you can stop lying to yourself about me. it's getting sad and pathetic. ::) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 13th, 2013 at 9:45pm Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 9:27pm:
Is that like the rule of announcing dates before two people can engage in a debate? Sorry, Grendel, the rebuttal stands. If you don’t have the patience to rebut such rebuttals, your argument fails. You’ve already established the rule: each serious rebuttal shall be addressed. Until you rebut my rebuttal of lie 3, your other lies don’t count. You still have 59 more lies to go. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 13th, 2013 at 9:47pm Karnal wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 9:45pm:
no karnal you don't get away with crap like that. Go and read what I said one more time then show how lie 3 and Slipper have anything to do with each other. the Slipper Affair has nothing to do with talking down australia. :D :D :D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 13th, 2013 at 9:58pm Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 6:01pm:
Rudd said, and I quote, "Mr Abbott has publicly stated that he does not want to face the.public scrutiny of an economic.policy debate here at the National Press Club of Australia". Mr Abbott refused to debate Rudd on economic policy at the National Press Club in Canberra. No election, no secret rules, no obscure precedents - Mr Abbott refused the debate. You can’t call this a lie, so it can’t even be rebutted. This lie doesn’t stand in the first place. Now back to lie 3 thanks, Grendel. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 13th, 2013 at 10:13pm Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 9:47pm:
I do and I have. Would you like another example of Mr Abbott playing Dr No to the detriment of our fine tradition of parliamentary demokracy? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:01pm
Let’s look at Craig Thomson, shall we? This instance was ruled on by the parliamentary Speaker, so we know it’s legit. It’s there in the Hansard.
Craig Thomson stood down from the Labor Party in disgrace and became an independant (like Mr Slipper). Mr Abbott made it clear that he would not be accepting Craig Thomson’s vote in his usual opposition of the government’s bills. Mr Abbott was unequivocal. Craig Thomson was not welcome in the Libs! Opposing the government was Mr Abbott’s job alone. So the Labor Party had a little joke. They had a word in Craig Thomson’s ear and asked him to vote against something irrelevant - some motion or other. Whatever it was, no one remembers. So the votes were counted, and there were the Libs, one by one, all opposing as usual. They finally got to Craig Thomson. He held the moment, looked at his feet, cleared his throat, and finally came out with his vote - nay! The Libs all looked at each other.. Nay? But that was their job - they’d voted nay. That meant... Yes, that meant they’d be voting with the disgraced Craig Thomson, a man who Mr Abbott said would poison the parliament with his vote. If they stayed and voted with this man, all hell would break loose. Realizing the seriousness of the problem, Mr Abbott looked up at his chief whip, Chris Pyne, and they both made a break for the doors of the parliament. Chris Pyne, a somewhat slippery, but powdery, character, made it through the doors just in time. Seeing Mr Abbott on the run, however, the speaker ordered the doors to be closed. Mr Abbott made it to the doors just as they closed in his face. Mr Abbott was locked in. Mr Abbott wasn’t happy. He wanted his opposition to the government to be pure - it didn’t really matter what he was opposing, but he wanted his opposition on his terms, and he wanted it to be seen that way. But the Speaker ruled: an MP gives his vote to the Speaker, not a political party. In his years spent opposing things in parliament, Mr Abbott had forgotten the whole point of it all: MPs vote on policies in the interest of the citizens they represent, not solely along tribal party lines for tactical political reasons, not with or against a government so as to support or oppose it. This incident, backed by the argument of the Speaker, offers us great insight into Mr Abbott’s character as Dr No. It shows the party political nature of Mr Abbott, a man for whom politics is a team sport bound by rules, tactics, point-scoring, and yes, physical agility. Thus, I rebut lie 3 (again). Mr Abbott was caught red-handed playing Dr No, and your alleged Rudd lie is proven false. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 14th, 2013 at 5:55am Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 12:58pm:
That is BS grendel. In other words you are lying. You replied to messages AFTER that. Not only that but you are STILL not answering the question - instead you are trying to distract to your excuse for not replying before! SOB |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 14th, 2013 at 5:59am Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 2:52pm:
So a 100% diet of negative politics is good for our nation? For that to be a lie it would have to be. In what you highlighted he didnt infer anything. Of course we all know what hes talking about but you made the inference yourself. SOB |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 14th, 2013 at 6:01am Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 3:18pm:
Nope. But a 100 per cent diet of negative politics is bad for our nation. Thats what you quoted as a lie. That statement is true - not a lie. 100% negativity is bad not good. SOB |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 14th, 2013 at 6:03am Lobo wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 3:43pm:
Wow. Thats pretty rediculous you know. The "glitch" makes the last few posts disappear when the page turns over. It does NOT make posts disappear in the middle of the page. He replied to 2 posts AFTER mine then said mine didnt come up. Outright lie. Oh and he still hasnt answered the question either: Who was more conservative than abbott? SOB |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 14th, 2013 at 9:51am Grendel wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 9:33pm:
I haven't read all your so called 'lies' but off the ones I've seen, they have already been well and truly refuted . The fact that you pretend not to see the answers is not my problem. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 14th, 2013 at 10:45am Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 14th, 2013 at 5:59am:
you goose... the lie is saying it was 100% ::) I hope you get it now Spotty... I have grave doubts though ::) As for your other crap... you are wrong about that too. get an adult to explain it to you. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 14th, 2013 at 10:47am Quote:
Ah yes i have and YOU haven't told me how to measure conservatism yet Spotty. Now please go away and stop wasting my time. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 14th, 2013 at 10:48am John Smith wrote on Jul 14th, 2013 at 9:51am:
Your biased opinion only John I not YOU have failed to try and refute anything. Since I'm not biased like you I suggest my opinion is way more relevant. ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 14th, 2013 at 10:48am Grendel wrote on Jul 14th, 2013 at 10:47am:
you can't, it becomes a matter of opinion ... therefore you cannot say Rudd lied about it. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 14th, 2013 at 10:49am Grendel wrote on Jul 14th, 2013 at 10:48am:
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D Do you actually think anyone will believe that? ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 14th, 2013 at 10:52am Karnal wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 9:58pm:
So come on karnal post Abbott's quote. I'm not interested in Rudd's misinterpretations or lies. Where is the quote stating what Rudd said was true. It wasn't. No used getting frustrated an annoyed with me telling the truth Rudd lied... Rudd lies... that is his forte. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 14th, 2013 at 10:54am Grendel wrote on Jul 14th, 2013 at 10:45am:
Oh so you reckon its not 100%? What exactly has abbott put forward that isnt negative then? SOB |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 14th, 2013 at 10:55am Karnal wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 11:01pm:
I never expected you to be a dope. Lie 3 is about talking Australia down. Rudd's context is the economy. Remember this debate is about the economy debt and deficit. Rudd's words not mine. Now you have mentioned boat, slipper and now thomson... none of which have anything to do with LIE 3... do wake up to yourself. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 14th, 2013 at 10:56am Grendel wrote on Jul 14th, 2013 at 10:47am:
No you haven't. What was your answer? BTW i dont have to measure conservatism - you do - you are the one that reckons abbott isnt the most conservative leader of the libs and you reckon it was a lie thathe is so YOU have to define it. SOB |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 14th, 2013 at 10:56am John Smith wrote on Jul 14th, 2013 at 10:49am:
Well it is true. I am a swinging voter I am LW and conservative. How many different parties have you ever voted for? :D :D :D Are you through with the ad hom. care to debate the topic for a change? You know participate in the actual topic. ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 14th, 2013 at 11:01am Quote:
One more time for Spotty... Who needs to learn that not everything labor tells him is true. 86% of legislation passed in parliament with bipartisan support Spotty... any bells ringing in your head yet.? No? I suggest then you go back and read what I've actually written for a change you may just find your answers, since it is clear you don't pay attention to politics in Australia very much at all. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 14th, 2013 at 11:03am
Looks like we won't be getting on to lie 9 today does if folks... well I've gotta zip
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by mantra on Jul 14th, 2013 at 11:30am
This thread title should be changed to "Grendel's 61 lies and obfuscation".
No-one will get a straight answer from him. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 14th, 2013 at 11:51am
You’re losing valuable lie time here, Grendel.
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 14th, 2013 at 11:52am mantra wrote on Jul 14th, 2013 at 11:30am:
Patience Mantra patience.. He’s up to lie 3. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 14th, 2013 at 11:56am Grendel wrote on Jul 14th, 2013 at 11:01am:
Abbott doesnt talk about that though does he. He talks negatively about the government and economy which is obviously what Rudd was talking about. So - why all the adhom? Dont like what im saying/asking? Have you answered my other question yet? Who is more conservative than abbott? SOB |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 14th, 2013 at 12:55pm Grendel wrote on Jul 14th, 2013 at 10:56am:
you spend so much time on here trying to discredit labor ..... you may have once upon a time being a swinging voter, but that's not the case now. Nothing Rudd does or says will change how you vote ... that makes you as rusted on as the next bloke. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 14th, 2013 at 12:59pm Karnal wrote on Jul 14th, 2013 at 11:52am:
No karnal I'm almost up to nine except for the fact you can't seem to tell what talking down australia means and your ability to count lies and know what each of them are is flakey. Butt out mantra if you can't participate don't snipe. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by skippy. on Jul 14th, 2013 at 1:00pm John Smith wrote on Jul 14th, 2013 at 12:55pm:
I have know him for seven years, John, he's been a Labor hater all that time. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 14th, 2013 at 1:05pm John Smith wrote on Jul 14th, 2013 at 12:55pm:
Did it ever cross your mind I'm sticking to the topic john? no? how unusual. having another snipe from the sidelines I see. ::) I have known of kevin since his Goss days. what do you know about Dr Death john? I don't particularly like Rudd as a person from what I actually know of him. But if Labor came up with a range of policies I really liked and they could convince me they will implement them and do a good job of it I might just vote for them again. Oh yes again Johnboy. If the Coalition come up with some howlers or even one really big howler I might not vote for them again... oh yes I have voted for other parties too. Now bugger off with your mindless prattle about me of whom you know next to nothing whilst I get on with the painful task of talking to rusted-on biased people who I already know will not concede anything even when they are patently wrong. I'm waiting to get on with 9... Oh and John... I didn't start this topic... it was a challenge set by someone else. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 14th, 2013 at 1:07pm
ps. John I don't have to discredit Labor... they managed to do that all by themselves.
or do you disagree with that? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 14th, 2013 at 1:10pm skippy. wrote on Jul 14th, 2013 at 1:00pm:
Now now Skippy you're the hater you and mantra and co. I just tell the truth. go take your meds there's a good roo. I just hate people telling lies Skippy, you know that. ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 14th, 2013 at 1:36pm Grendel wrote on Jul 14th, 2013 at 12:59pm:
You’ve confused the order, Grendel. Each time a lie is successfully rebutted, the number goes back. I don’t make the rules, you know. You’re up to 3 now. Please keep going. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 14th, 2013 at 2:06pm
Ok I understand you guys need a break...
So I'll just post an article that kinda backs me up where kevin is concerned. I mean it's obvious you are finding it hard to take my word for it. ;D ;D ;D Remember now, this is the guy you lot are defending and in some cases supporting :D Quote:
Hope you liked it. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by mantra on Jul 14th, 2013 at 2:32pm Grendel wrote on Jul 14th, 2013 at 2:06pm:
Grendel that is an opinion only interpreted and spruiked by a RW journalist. Regardless of Devine's comments - at least Rudd is saying something. Has the cat got Abbott's tongue? Where is he? What's he doing to further his cause? The only people who are trying to sell Abbott are a few RW journo's, broadcasters and of course the occasional supporter who has to invent a Coalition policy. We need to hear something from the horse's mouth to confirm the mutterings of the right whingers. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 14th, 2013 at 2:39pm mantra wrote on Jul 14th, 2013 at 2:32pm:
Do you actually read anything mantra? If you read the article you'd have noticed the FACTS mentioned in there. kevin lied... kevin lies a lot :o |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by skippy. on Jul 14th, 2013 at 2:40pm
Miranda Devine.
;D ;D :D :D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 14th, 2013 at 2:48pm
Miranda Divine? Grendel, you lose a lie for that one. You’re now back to lie 2.
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 14th, 2013 at 4:13pm
hmmmm
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 14th, 2013 at 4:15pm
I was going to say that's better... but having read the last couple of crap posts I'll refrain.
Just let me know when you guys are in partially sensible mode and I'll post the next lie. It has been noted that you have all failed to refute the facts posted in Miranda's article. A very good article btw folks. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 14th, 2013 at 6:20pm
We’re focusing on Rudd’s lies, Grendel, not Miranda Divine’s. You’ve got 2 down. Do you want to post your third?
59 to go. Chop chop. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 14th, 2013 at 7:06pm Karnal wrote on Jul 14th, 2013 at 6:20pm:
So am I and so is Miranda. Your credibility just hit zero. Hence I'll be taking my own good time since you can't even count or admit Rudd lies. ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 14th, 2013 at 7:42pm
I’m being nice. I’m counting Rudd’s lie that Australia’s national security is strong because we don’t have WMDs and a terrorist might get in on a boat.
If it wasn’t for you pointing that one out, I would have continued to go through life in a state of complacency over what I realize now is a full-blown crisis. Good work, Grendel - I might vote for Mr Abbott yet. I’m a swinging voter, you see. I’m LW and a conservative. You exposing Rudd’s lies is bringing me around to the necessity of an Abbott government. Please go to lie 3. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by dsmithy70 on Jul 14th, 2013 at 9:14pm
Well you had fun this weekend hunched over a keyboard.
15 pages and we are still at number 3 And to top it off your now referencing Miranda Divine, the Austalian Ann Coulter. PFFFT you've got nothing, as supected from day dot. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 14th, 2013 at 9:47pm
No, Smithy, Grendel just posted Miranda Divine to get warm and cosy and remember what’s important in life. It is a Sunday, after all.
Grendel’s not posting lie 3 until we’re ready for it. We need to be positive, focus, and say, all together: THERE WILL BE NO CARBON TAX UNDER A GOVERNMENT I LEAD. Grendel will feel better and come back. I can’t wait for his next one. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 14th, 2013 at 11:00pm Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 14th, 2013 at 9:14pm:
What is it they call you people? LEFTARDS? Obviously Leftards can't count. You lot are showing just how shallow you can be. The opportunity is there and yet you cannot refute the truth of what Miranda said. That's ok because I can't either because it is the FACTUAL TRUTH... KRUDD is a LIAR. ;D ;D ;D You lot could try to redeem yourselves by at least conceding the point ::) Then we can move onto 9... |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by dsmithy70 on Jul 14th, 2013 at 11:37pm Grendel wrote on Jul 14th, 2013 at 11:00pm:
Please post your difinition of a liar & then back it with an example of an Australian politican that doesn't. The biggest lie I know of currently is Tony's bullsh!t of turning boats back(never happen because it will never "Be safe to do so") and follow that with his "Axe the Tax" He may well axe the price on carbon for business but then funds to the exact same target soley with TAXPAYER $$$$. How is collecting taxation revenue and then spending it not a tax? Tell me how the aboves are not untrue statements |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 15th, 2013 at 12:04am
And when you’ve finished telling Smithy that, Grendel, onto lie three, thanks.
You have 59 more to go, you know. At this rate, we might get done by the end of Rudd’s first term. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 15th, 2013 at 6:28am
gRendel - time to answer my questions:
1) Who was more conservative than abbott? 2) Name something not negative abbott has said in the press about the government SOB |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 15th, 2013 at 9:32am
But the lie first, thanks, Grendel. We must have an orderly process here.
I don’t make the rules, you know. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 15th, 2013 at 12:16pm
Spotty... go away you stupid troll... I already answered your questions you dope.
You however have not answered mine. ;D Quote:
moi "difinition" eh smiffy... Someone who intentionally tells untruths. Would you like a dictionary definition? liar (ˈlaɪə) — n a person who has lied or lies repeatedly Want a "difinition" of lie now? Ok just for you then smiffy... lie 1 /laɪ/ Show Spelled [lahy] Show IPA noun, verb, lied, ly·ing. noun 1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood. Synonyms: prevarication, falsification. Antonyms: truth. 2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one. 3. an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood. 4. the charge or accusation of telling a lie: He flung the lie back at his accusers. verb (used without object) 5. to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive. Synonyms: prevaricate, fib. 6. to express what is false; convey a false impression. hope that helps... should I wait till you get back to me... again? Quote:
I'm pretty sure "Axe the Tax" was not a Liberal policy slogan. In fact I first saw it at the protest in Canberra where Albanese called hundreds of concerned Australians the Convoy of Incontinence. Albo he's always been a class act. :D Quote:
He may well repeal the tax and in doing so cut my power bills and if we are lucky the domino effect will see decreases in other cost of living expenses Kevin has finally admitted were impacted by the Carbon Tax. He may well fund Direct Action out of an already present tax pool. better that than an additional one... right? Quote:
How is it you do not recognise that the Carbon tax was an additional tax. How was it you were fooled into believing that it would only effect the big polluters? How was it you failed even after they added compensation that it was effecting Australians cost of living expenses? Quote:
I think I've well and truly shot your "aboves" out of the water smiffy. Does your political bias now prevent you from acknowledging that? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 15th, 2013 at 12:17pm Karnal wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 9:32am:
:D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Another time waster eh karnal... ::) try writing something truthful for a change. I might respond. ;) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 15th, 2013 at 12:28pm Grendel wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 12:16pm:
I'm pretty sure "Axe the Tax" was not a Liberal policy slogan. In fact I first saw it at the protest in Canberra where Albanese called hundreds of concerned Australians the Convoy of Incontinence. Albo he's always been a class act. :D Quote:
He may well repeal the tax and in doing so cut my power bills and if we are lucky the domino effect will see decreases in other cost of living expenses Kevin has finally admitted were impacted by the Carbon Tax. He may well fund Direct Action out of an already present tax pool. better that than an additional one... right? Quote:
How is it you do not recognise that the Carbon tax was an additional tax. How was it you were fooled into believing that it would only effect the big polluters? How was it you failed even after they added compensation that it was effecting Australians cost of living expenses? Quote:
I think I've well and truly shot your "aboves" out of the water smiffy. Does your political bias now prevent you from acknowledging that? [/quote] Nope. You havent. If you have then quote and link to it please. You did NOT ask me about the definition of "liar" and you are the one thats making the claims so you define it. SOB |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 15th, 2013 at 12:39pm
weird site...
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 15th, 2013 at 12:41pm Quote:
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 15th, 2013 at 12:52pm Grendel wrote on Jul 14th, 2013 at 1:05pm:
you did start this topic and then when they asked you to explain the 61 lies you told them to start another thread or you wouldn't list them .... I can see why you would be confused though ... |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 15th, 2013 at 1:15pm Grendel wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 12:17pm:
I have written something truthful, Grendel. I don't make the rules - you've already laid them out. You tell the lies and answer every serious post. But there has to be an order - no queue jumpers, thanks. Smithy first, then the lie, then SOB. You haven't done the 3rd lie yet. We're waiting, Grendel. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 15th, 2013 at 1:19pm
Amazing. You rusted ons are just being impatient. Grendel will do you all slowly. So be patient, leftards. Grendel is up
To Miranda divines lie #7. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by dsmithy70 on Jul 15th, 2013 at 1:20pm Grendel wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 12:16pm:
Seriously?? Because Tony's used that phrase everyday since. To deny that shoots what little credibility you have out of the water. And it was, no one was under 60 ;) Grendel wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 12:16pm:
Prices will not fall Quote:
To your 2nd part, the budget is already out of control, according to Tony & you, so what will be cut? Education? Heath? Defense? Already the populace thanks to Howard expect handouts & leg ups, so with spending more from that limited pool how will we reach surplus, yet another pie in the sky no detail thought bubble? Grendel wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 12:16pm:
1) Its not, its a cost on business 2) They are the ones that pay, who else does it DIRECTLY effect? Don't sight cost increases being passed on otherwise we will have to think about PPL, a cost on 5000 Australian businesses not 300.Opps too late Quote:
3) It hasn't, I have not changed a thing & seeing as we are dealing with unsubstantiated anecdotes my experience holds just as much weight as your rhetoric Grendel wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 12:16pm:
I have no bias accept I think Abbott & his goons are bad for my country, its not party based put Turnbull there & I'll vote Liberal, put Hunt there & I'll vote Liberal, put Hockey there & I'll consider it seriously. You've only shoot yourself in the foot champ, where's number 4 or whatever we are up to? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 15th, 2013 at 1:45pm Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 12:28pm:
He may well repeal the tax and in doing so cut my power bills and if we are lucky the domino effect will see decreases in other cost of living expenses Kevin has finally admitted were impacted by the Carbon Tax. He may well fund Direct Action out of an already present tax pool. better that than an additional one... right? Quote:
How is it you do not recognise that the Carbon tax was an additional tax. How was it you were fooled into believing that it would only effect the big polluters? How was it you failed even after they added compensation that it was effecting Australians cost of living expenses? Quote:
I think I've well and truly shot your "aboves" out of the water smiffy. Does your political bias now prevent you from acknowledging that? [/quote] Nope. You havent. If you have then quote and link to it please. You did NOT ask me about the definition of "liar" and you are the one thats making the claims so you define it. SOB [/quote] Nope you have NOT answered my questions and its not up to me to define conservatism since you are the one that was using the word to say that abbott is not the most conservative lib leader. What did you mean it was a lie? Who was more conservative than him? What do you mean by conservative and more to the point what does rudd mean by it? Theres a second question there too: 1) Who was more conservative than abbott? 2) Name something not negative abbott has said in the press about the government BTW you addressed the post to me then quoted someone saying the definition of liar. It wasnt me. SOB |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 15th, 2013 at 3:16pm Quote:
Ok willing to admit I missed it. please post examples of Tony saying Axe the tax everyday.... did you kinda admit you were wrong I noticed the word "since" BTW they were not all over 60 and albo and now you apparently are a disgrace. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 15th, 2013 at 3:19pm Quote:
they definitely won't under labor smiffy... obviously you don't care. I'd like to give the more likely team a chance. You realise that if labor had not chickened out on having the tax recorded on the bill 1/ we'd know how much it increased a bill... they obviously didn't want us to know. 2/ we'd be able to readily see that it was removed when the tax is repealed. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 15th, 2013 at 3:23pm Quote:
I don't believe I have even mentioned the budget being out of control. You seem to be ignoring the fact that labor have already found savings for the ETS... so what is being cut by them? Oh right they aren't saying. Honestly smiffy... ::) Quote:
Happened long before Howard. or don't you go back that far? We were in surplus even when Howard was dealing "hand-outs" remember? ::) ::) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 15th, 2013 at 3:26pm Quote:
Well that is just rubbish and a stupid act of denial. Quote:
More rubbish and denial... please smiffy do at least try to address reality. Quote:
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 15th, 2013 at 3:32pm Quote:
Well if you have to deny facts and lie I find that hard to believe smiffy. The Wet Turnbull failed as opposition leader that is why labor and greens like him... he is unacceptable to most conservatives. he is like Rudd... he represents himself and his beliefs. So why do you hate abbott? be nice for one of you guys to actually have a go at addressing that instead of just saying because we do... Quote:
We are up to 9... almost :) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Aussie on Jul 15th, 2013 at 3:50pm Quote:
I have posted my reasons. You have been too preoccupied with your own self importance to notice. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by dsmithy70 on Jul 15th, 2013 at 3:51pm Grendel wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 3:16pm:
Page 4 in the Book of Dreams Quote:
http://lpa.webcontent.s3.amazonaws.com/realsolutions/LPA%20Policy%20Booklet%20210x210_pages.pdf Please don't waste my time with semantics of language, Freeing from the Burdens of Carbon Tax, Axe the Tax, Repeal the Carbon Tax all equal the same thing. Seriously if you have heard a carbon tax reference in every interview then your not listening. Grendel wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 3:19pm:
It increased bills by 7% do the maths, & I've already posted the article where the energy providers refuse to commit to lowering prices. Are you advocating Tony go for the Soviet style state owned Utilities? How much would that cost to buy?What would that do to the Budget? or are you advocating forced repossession" Grendel wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 3:26pm:
No its a fact, what was the electricity costs before? What was the 37% increase from 2000 to July 2011 called? Again no mention of TAX there either I never heard them called a Tax Grendel wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 3:26pm:
I have how about you address the reality of PPL & its on-flow costs to those poor pensioners. Grendel wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 3:26pm:
CLICK THE LINK Paid Parental Leave puts a tax increase of 1.5% on all Australian Businesses that TURNOVER more than $5,000,000(you do know the difference between Turnover,Gross Profit & Nett profit Right?) If the carbon tax put financial stress on 300 businesses forcing it to raise prices why wont the added burden to over 5000 do the same? Covering a much wider spectrum....no, in fact the WHOLE economy not just the ENERGY Sector? Grendel wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 3:32pm:
I don't hate the guy, I never said I did. Why don't I want him to be PM? Because the Austerity measures he & Hockey advocate have been a TOTAL FAILURE around the rest of the world. Europe is heading or has achieved a TRIPLE DIP recession. Do you really think a tightening of spending is a way to encourage business & consumer confidence? He panders to the LOWEST common denominator, he appeals from the perspective of fear & distrust(like the church), we all know its not about stopping reffos drowning its about stopping Mussies & brown people coming here. Its not about saving peoples Cost of Living its about saving energy companies money. He has not once since taking the leadership of the Liberal Party of Australia offered a POSITIVE outlook for our nation. He has not once offered any DETAIL even in the BROADEST terms on how he will achieve his rhetoric. He cant string together 2 coherent words when asked an off the cuff question, imagine him trying to talk with Putin,Obama,Brown in fact any world leader. What if they asked a difficult question.....ahhhhhhh.....ummmmmm......ahhhhhhh.haha.....oh Merkel coming over(not even realising that's her surname) He is a BULLY, a spoilt bully who resorts to intimidation if he doesn't get his way. THAT WHY I DO NOT WANT THIS MAN LEADING MY COUNTRY! |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 15th, 2013 at 4:55pm
Sorry, Grendel, most of your lies have been successfully rebutted. You have 59 to go, or you can admit you were wrong and say Rudd only lied twice.
Thoughts? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Jul 15th, 2013 at 6:37pm
You people still playing with this troll and his flawed pathetic opinion?
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by adelcrow on Jul 15th, 2013 at 6:57pm
The problem is that Labor is falling for the homosexual agenda and totally ignoring the elephant in the room...Stop..The...Boats :D
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Jul 15th, 2013 at 7:18pm
Maybe the most pathetic list I have ever seen - nothing worth even considering seriously there is not a single clear lie or a topic which is worth the effort either way.
Dismal absurd pathetic fragile pitiable feeble are the words which come to mind. Quote:
Rudd is entitled to his opinion. Quote:
About right I would think, no room for disagreement there. Quote:
Grendal thinks it is a good idea to be talking Australia down??? I agree with Rudd it is not a good thing for the country Quote:
Difficult to not agree that the Liberals and Media have been pedalling this view for a number of years. Quote:
He would be up there but I think that Rudd is probably wrong if he said this. However being wrong is not the same as telling lies. Quote:
Absolutely no doubt that this has been Tony's political strength. Quote:
The statement is in general terms correct, If saying that 100% is a few percentage points over the top when talking about Tony then that would be correct, If Rudd said this in the terms stated then he is guilty of an exaggeration. Quote:
Abbott clearly didn't turn up to discuss the economy ??? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 15th, 2013 at 7:37pm Aussie wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 3:50pm:
Sorry Aussie unlike you I'm a 'umble cove and don't suffer from self importance like yourself. You still obsessing over being turfed at PA and not being Admin anymore? You need to get over it... people will think you are too full of yourself... mmmm what's the words... self important? So come on Aussie not that I asked you but since you decided to butt in... come on and post the info here. I'll be really interested to see if you can come up with something sensible. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 15th, 2013 at 7:40pm Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 3:51pm:
So there is no AXE THE TAX... He did not say it everyday. If ever... It is not the slogan for the official Liberal Policy. So why did you lie about it smithy? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 15th, 2013 at 7:43pm
Gretel, are you a masochist?
I don't understand why you keep coming back to this thread to have your but handed back to you over and over again ... if you had any sort of brain you'd leave it alone and let it run of the page. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 15th, 2013 at 7:56pm Quote:
Sorry lets be honest here, you know what you said. So do I. Quote:
You mean if I haven't heard don't you? But no, I have been listening and I haven't heard that referred to in every interview. And I listen a lot. Grendel wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 3:19pm:
Quote:
Nope... treasury actually said 7-10% but we all know how wrong treasury have been since Labor took over. How are those surpluses going? I've done the maths and it is more. My bills went up 25%. As for the total effect of the federal and state governments on my bill due to Green initiatives my bill could be anything up to 90% higher than it should be. The government can legislated to ensure the energy providers are not ripping us off. The states however at least NSW are taking dividends off the electricity distributors and have been since the 70s when Greiner was in charge. This has effected costs, quality of service and maintenance in the industry. Quote:
Are you saying we don't already have a form of that now? If so you'd be wrong in at least NSW. Quote:
Hope you don't mind if I stick to actual policy and not idle speculation. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 15th, 2013 at 7:57pm John Smith wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 7:43pm:
I'm not going to let you people post unchallenged lies John so suck it up... not even the one you just posted even if it is pathetic. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 15th, 2013 at 7:59pm Dnarever wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 7:18pm:
About right I would think, no room for disagreement there. Quote:
Grendal thinks it is a good idea to be talking Australia down??? I agree with Rudd it is not a good thing for the country Quote:
Difficult to not agree that the Liberals and Media have been pedalling this view for a number of years. Quote:
He would be up there but I think that Rudd is probably wrong if he said this. However being wrong is not the same as telling lies. Quote:
Absolutely no doubt that this has been Tony's political strength. Quote:
The statement is in general terms correct, If saying that 100% is a few percentage points over the top when talking about Tony then that would be correct, If Rudd said this in the terms stated then he is guilty of an exaggeration. Quote:
Abbott clearly didn't turn up to discuss the economy ??? [/quote] Excuse me, that’s just leftard thinking. You’ve got it all wrong - you must be a rusted on Rudd supporter. Typical. Grendel is progressive AND conservative. He can see both sides. He gets to the heart of the truth. He’s up to lie 3, but he seems to have slowed down. Stay on target, Grendel. The truth depends on it. Next lie, please. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 15th, 2013 at 8:01pm Grendel wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 7:57pm:
Suck it up, leftards. Pathetic, just pathetic. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by skippy. on Jul 15th, 2013 at 8:05pm
bugger I'm glad I don't have to pay for popcorn to read these 61 lies. Good luck getting more than one or two and ya can bet they will be stretched ala boofy style.
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 15th, 2013 at 8:06pm
Gotta zip smithy so I'll be brief.
Quote:
I understand your point. I am not for it even though it is much more generous than labor's policy. It is much less an impact than the carbon tax which does effect everyone and every company smithy. Not only do companies pay for the carbon tax many pay for the up to 400% increase in refrigerant costs. The costs set for feeding power back into the grid at a much higher rate than the standard power rate. there are other schemes and add-on costs due to green initiatives taken on by both levels of government. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by skippy. on Jul 15th, 2013 at 8:07pm John Smith wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 7:43pm:
He loves be rogered, Ive been doing him slowly for seven years or so and he can't get enough. Sad to watch really. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 15th, 2013 at 10:10pm Quote:
Really, hard to believe, considering you are willing to pan him relentlessly for no real reason and acept ALP propaganda about him as a given. Quote:
What austerity measures? That is ALP propaganda you've swallowed. Why? what actual policies are austere? Quote:
So what. Can't blame Abbott or Hockey for that. Quote:
I think a country like a home must live within it's means and budgets must be cut to fit the situation. None of their rhetoric or policies so far seem detrimental to business or consumer confidence. Except of course the scaremongering from the ALP. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 15th, 2013 at 10:16pm Quote:
Personally I think Kevin does. Those who would fill the pages of a particular Hans Christian Anderson book. I'm sorry to see it, but your personal bias about the guy is rather pathetic. Not to mention unsustainable based on no proof. Do you hate "brown people" and muslims... Your racist libel is pathetic. Quote:
Spoken like a true socialist. Comrade. I guess we've worked out the hatred bit after all eh. The progressive Left hates as mark latham pointed out years ago. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 15th, 2013 at 10:18pm Quote:
If you don't listen or read what the man says how would you know? Quote:
If you don't listen or read what the man says how would you know? BTW don't start with the policy crap, every Labor government tries that one on before campaigns... it has grown/groan rather old. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 15th, 2013 at 10:27pm Quote:
What a load of baseless crap... you want to believe all that because you want to dislike him, he is the opposition. It is true I have seen him stumble a few times. Did you see Rudd stumble the other day? I've seen many politicians stumble over the years... What you just wrote is again just prejudice based on propaganda. He has met dignitaries before and yet there is no proof or even a hint at a stumble. I have heard his prepared speeches and they all work rather well. His co-workers in the rural fires service and lifeguards all speak well of him as a person. He is seen as down to earth and approachable. He helps the aboriginals on remote locations and many charities. Is this the same person you have described. You think maybe you might have it a bit wrong? Personally the leader of either party will not effect my vote. I'll vote for the policies I think are best for my country. Leaders usually do not have much effect on that, even Gillard and our worst government managed to get most of their legislation through parliament. I doubt the Coalition and Abbott can do worse. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 15th, 2013 at 10:29pm
gotta zip folks
we're cookin' with gas eh... ;D yeah great language for a PM I know... ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 15th, 2013 at 11:07pm Grendel wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 7:57pm:
how is my comment a lie? you keep coming back to this thread despite being made to look like a fool each and every time, do you enjoy it? ... if you can think of a better word than masochist I'm listening. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 15th, 2013 at 11:10pm Grendel wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 8:06pm:
How often do you, or anyone else for that matter, re- gas your fridge ? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Kat on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:10am
Are we there ye...Oh!
Carry on. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:14am
is this nonsense still going?
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:26am Grendel wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 10:27pm:
Yes, leftards, policies. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 16th, 2013 at 6:02am Karnal wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 1:15pm:
Ahh okay karnal. i just wanted to make him answer just 1 question - just 1 - but he wont. Seems the lies are omnipotent and have a forcefield around them. SOB |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 16th, 2013 at 6:07am
Grendel why dont you just list the 61 lies in a post and be done with it? Number them 1 . . 2 . . .3 . . . etc?
SOB |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 16th, 2013 at 11:17am Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 6:07am:
Because Grendel says he wants to be done slowly, SOB. Skippy says it's sad, but Grendel says he enjoys it. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 16th, 2013 at 11:30am John Smith wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 11:10pm:
You goose John best you just snipe from the sidelines eh... your ignorance is showing... all refrigeration including transport vehicles and stores like woolies and coles etc use it duh!!! Oh and John your car air-con is affected too ;D Try and think for a moment just how many industries use it on a daily basis around the clock.... any with perishables you dummy. oh dear... and yes refilling of gases and replacement of gases can occur at least on a yearly or quaterly basis depending on the usage. BTW it is very expensive now that it at least 4 times the cost. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
An annual bill of say $10,000 suddenly becomes $40,000 for a business like a Coles store for instance, that means a manager suddenly puts off a whole load of casual staff previously dependent on their wage. I've seen it happen ::) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 16th, 2013 at 11:35am Grendel wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 11:30am:
How could an annual bill rise by 400% when the carbon tax has raised the price of electricity by less than 10%? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 16th, 2013 at 11:36am
Proof please, leftards.
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by mantra on Jul 16th, 2013 at 11:52am Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 15th, 2013 at 3:51pm:
Great summary. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 16th, 2013 at 11:59am
Ok time to move on I suppose before you all start back slapping again... ::) ::) ::)
This is the first lie in his speech that I can't back up with factual refutation. because to be able to do so I'd have to run a national poll... mind you Kevin did no such thing so his claims/lies are nothing more than that. Difference being I'm not making the unsubstantiated claims. Lie 9 My core argument to you today is that given the new economic challenges that Australia is now facing, what the Australian people now want to see is a debate about a clear, positive economic policy direction for their future. Really? Is that what every Australian wants. Perhaps more hubris is exactly what we don't want. I can't remember an election where the "Australian people" as a whole were all wanting an economic debate. Just more crap from Kevin. I'm calling it a lie. Just a quick look at any political site and debates on the economy are few and far between. Anecdotally it would seem Australians then are not all that interested in an economic debate. How many people sit around watching the budget or the budget reply? Hmmmm What issues take precedence in the media. Not the economy. It is a back issue. Except perhaps at budget time. Where people are largely worried about how much extra they are getting or how much less. Normally though during a term of government it is a back burner issue. What issues are now at the forefront, now we are about to have an election... NOT the economy. Lets look at the big news items around Australia today... BOAT PEOPLE/JAKARTA BENJI/WEST TIGERS OUTBACK OIL/SHALE OIL SHARK ATTACK/TEEN VICTIM LABOR RULES/KING KEVIN PAROLE BOARD/FOR THE AXE RUDD CUTS/CLIMATE TAX NBN/CUTS ANOTHER CABLE SEVERE WEATHER/FOR WA RADWANSKA/DROPPED BY CHURCH EASTER BUNNY/ATTACKED 800 PUBLIC SERVICE JOBS/CUT BLAKE FERGUSON/NOT GUILTY PLEA It would seem people are interested in various thing and it would seem politics in general is not top of their list let alone the economy. Sorry Kev you got it wrong you lied.... |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:01pm mantra wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 11:52am:
Like you'd know anything... You're a hater... smiffy said he wasn't ... hmmm I wonder if he lied. nice of you to admit your bias though mantra... not that people who know you were surprised eh ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by dsmithy70 on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:25pm Grendel wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:01pm:
No I didn't. I have great respect for Abbott the volunteer whether life saver or firer fighter & I genuinely believe he wants to make a difference in aboriginal communities. I just don't want him as my PM for reasons outlined above. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by mantra on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:28pm Grendel wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:01pm:
I think these days I would probably know a little more than you Grendel. You've lost the plot lately as evidenced by this thread. You might get the support of a couple of dysfunctional RW's on another board, but your true obfuscation and bulldust is blatantly obvious. Only you can't see it. As far as Rudd referring to the Australian people as a whole - what is wrong with that? Most thinking Australians do want to see a clear economic policy direction from a leader. We've heard nothing from Abbott. What does he stand for? About as much as you by the looks of it. In regard to hating - where you're concerned anyone who doesn't agree with you is a hater - so I consider it a compliment. God forbid if more than a handful of people agreed with your rhetoric and I was one of them. Too low to fall. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Aussie on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:37pm Quote:
As I have no respect for him at all for those things I concede I'm starting from a low base, but whatever respect I have would get better if he did it all in the total absence of a camera or other media exposure. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:42pm mantra wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:28pm:
You are so deluded... ::) ::) ::) Excuse me if I ignore your crap... |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:43pm Quote:
Most of which are baseless bias smithy... |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:44pm Aussie wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:37pm:
Well you are in mantra's hater club, Jase after all... ::) the club for mindless progs :o |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Aussie on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:45pm Quote:
Dunno what that means. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:47pm Grendel wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 11:59am:
;D ;D ;D ;D. Talk about scraping the very bottom Of the barrel. And we aren't even at 10 yet. Ok Grendel. That was an outrageous lie. You are correct. Please move on to lie #10 |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:48pm Aussie wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:45pm:
hope I've cleared that up for you... ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:48pm Grendel wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:42pm:
That's right. Mantra, Grendel is a LW conservative. He isn't RW. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:50pm sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:48pm:
Glad you at least acknowledge some truths... ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:50pm Grendel wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 11:59am:
Yes. http://essentialvision.com.au/most-important-election-issues Q. Which are the three most important issues in deciding how you would vote at a Federal election? 17/06/2013. 1. Management of the economy 47%. 2. Ensuring the quality of Australia’s health system 45%. 3. Australian jobs and protection of local industries 34%. 4. Ensuring a quality education for all children 24%. 5. Political leadership 22%. 6. Ensuring a fair taxation system 19%. 7. Housing affordability 14%. 8. Addressing climate change 11%. 9. Controlling interest rates 11%. 10. Treatment of asylum seekers 11%. 11. Managing population growth 11%. 12. A fair industrial relations system 10%. 13. Security and the war on terrorism 8%. 14. Ensuring a quality water supply 5%. Looks like the economy's number one, Grendel. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:52pm sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:47pm:
Patience Alevine patience. Grendel's up to lie 3. I don't make the rules here. His other lies have been rebutted. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Aussie on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:52pm Grendel wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:48pm:
Nope.....what did you mean by the word, 'Jase?' |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:53pm
Karnal, I'd say in that list the economy is number 1-10 ;)
Even in grendels article list, amazing how the highlighted articles are about the economy. And yet... No no! Grendel is 100% correct. Grendel, show these rightards what lie |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 16th, 2013 at 1:13pm Karnal wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:50pm:
Karnal, don't you know that essential vision is just LW propaganda. Good LW conservatives don't read such propaganda. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 16th, 2013 at 1:59pm Karnal wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:50pm:
Sorry karnal that's a fail not even 50% are interested. How do you justify that the total percentage of your list goes way beyond 100%? ;D ;D ;D Sorry karnal the choices are also loaded by the pollster. ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 16th, 2013 at 2:00pm sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:53pm:
Ah gee wizz who'd a thunk I highlighted the political ones... ;D ;D ;D ;D You guys are legends in your own minds... ::) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 16th, 2013 at 2:00pm Grendel wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 1:59pm:
Yes Karnal. 34% of people worried about jobs aren't interested in the economy. 24% worrying about quality education aren't interested in the economy. 19% who want a fair tax system...they don't care about the economy. 14% with housing affordability think economy is a non-issue. Those who want climate change action - do you think they are interested in the economy? HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!!!! You've got to be joking!! |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 16th, 2013 at 2:06pm sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 2:00pm:
Sorry alevine your going to have to stop bragging about how wrong you get things... I already refuted karnals claims. I used the media and the national population to gather todays top interests. More than kevin did. more than you guys did. I' feel sorry for you all running around only thinking about the economy and kevin holding a debate on it. I mean that is what you are all thinking about it is all you guys want right... I mean kevin said so so it must be right... right? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 16th, 2013 at 2:15pm
Here you go something else to laugh about.
Imagine being kevin and still hurting about peter making him look stupid all those years ago... Comes of being full of oneself I imagine. Lie 10. When I was first elected leader of the opposition, I argued long and hard that Australia had to prepare for the day when the resources boom was over. You will remember I was ridiculed by then Treasurer Peter Costello for even asking the question – as if it reflected a lack of economic patriotism. So what was the question you asked Kevin? I don’t see a question. Kevin, Kevin, Kevin… you lack “economic patriotism”? You were ridiculed really? I guess Costello didn’t have a leg to stand on considering the boom has just ended, 7 years and 2 governments later…according to you eh. You’ve just spent a great deal of time in your speech about people being negative and talking down the Australian economy. Do you suppose Kevvy that Costello was doing to you what you and the ALP have been doing to the Opposition for years now… attacking people about talking down the economy? Are you just being a hypocrite Kevin? Are you inferring that this economic "ridicule" was constant and everyday occurrence? That it was all you talked about everyday whilst in Opposition. Sorry Kevin I don’t remember it like that at all. I remember you saying you were a fiscal conservative, Howard lite. The safe pair of hands. I remember you making a very big and constant deal about Climate Change and Workchoices Kevin… in fact it would be hard to forget or even pretend that there were any more urgent matters during the election. There were of course also the NBN and the Education Revolution and the Apology to the Stolen Generation wasn’t there. But I’m sorry Kev I just don’t recall you banging on endlessly about the end of the boom for any length of time. Or if I’m honest being ridiculed for it. After all it was the boom that was going to fund all your promises… and the $22 billion government surplus and the Future Fund of course was there to be plundered if necessary. Perhaps you made one speech or wrote one article. I do recall Costello berating you about an article once. 7 years and 2 governments later, the boom has ended… do you think Costello may have had a point, If he questioned your concerns, your talking down the Australian economy? Did he tick you off? I mean, even now you call it ridicule… must be a hard thing to bare... being the narcissist you are after all these years. Are you being a tad hubristic and lying about the extent of this so-called ridicule? Are you exaggerating about what your concerns actually were Kevin? Did you just fudge the truth and tell another lie? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 16th, 2013 at 2:20pm Grendel wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 1:59pm:
Perhaps you should read the link, Grendel. The poll asks respondents for their top 3 issues. I'm sure people raised a range of issues not included on this list - more sex, free beer, legalized drugs, etc, etc, etc. A case in point: the pollsters don't include animal welfare, but I know one member here who sees this as an important election issue. He even joined the Greens to do something about it (until he found out they were red on the inside). PLEASE EXPLAIN. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 16th, 2013 at 2:27pm sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 2:00pm:
I take your point, Alevine, but voters definitely don't want to see the two potential PMs debating these issues. We're in a demokracy. There is a process for these things. Mr Abbott goes on Alan, Rudd goes on the 7.30 Report, and News Ltd provides insight into these important economic issues. That's demokracy. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 16th, 2013 at 2:42pm Grendel wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 2:15pm:
Here's Peter Costello having a chat with Alan: Quote:
http://www.petercostello.com.au/transcripts/2007/3317-labor-tax-policy-budget-2007-2008-kevin-rudd-industrial-relations-market-deregulation-interview-with-alan-jones-2gb Interesting, isn't it? Peter Costello seems to be criticizing Rudd for not releasing policies before an election. Now where have we heard that before? Peter Costello must be unlike all those Australians who aren't interested in the economy - a statistical aberration. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 16th, 2013 at 3:27pm Grendel wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 2:06pm:
Do we really need to spell this out for you, Grendel? A person doesn't need to say very very specifically they are concerned about the economy to be concerned about the economy. A person concerned about good education is in effect concerned about the economy. A person concerned about tax and tax cuts is concerned about the economy. A person concerned about climate change is...guess what...concerned about the economy! The majority of issues, the vast majority of issues, all come down to ... the economy! I used to think like you...when I was 15... you know....why is the government concerned about the economy when they should be worried about social policies. Well guess what...even the ECONOMY impacts SOCIAL POLICIES. And Vice Versa. So when Rudd says Australians think about the economy it's because they do. Asylum Seekers? What's the main concern for the xenos - that too many are coming and are on Welfare. For the rest of us, it's the risk to life. But here you have, a somewhat proportion of the Australian people still thinking about the economy when they are reading about Asylum Seekers! Those worried about the carbon tax - it's not just because of climate, but it's the impact of climate and the sustainability of our economy in a changing climate. Now, please, go away. You've wasted enough time. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 16th, 2013 at 3:40pm
No, Alevine, Grendel's up to lie 3.
If I can find any evidence on Australia's security rating, he'll be up to lie 2. Patience, Alevine, patience. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 16th, 2013 at 3:51pm Karnal wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 3:40pm:
Sorry Karnal. I forget: patience, patience. Karnal, I love how Grendel debates! I'm very surprised you've been able to outdebate him on his 10 lies, and only leave him with 3. Did you see how he outsmarted you with his quite well substantiated "no it doesn't" response before? Or how he constantly reminds you, quite correctly, that you only read LW Propaganda nonsense? I think Grendel should be a minister in a Matty government. Thoughts? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by skippy. on Jul 16th, 2013 at 4:20pm
LOL twenty pages and boofy still can't come up with one significant lie, what a loser. ;D ;D ;D ;D :D looks like boofy is the liar. :D
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 16th, 2013 at 4:27pm
STOP THE LEFTARDS.
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 16th, 2013 at 4:34pm sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 3:51pm:
Yes, Alevine, I agree. I think Grendel would make a marvelous minister in Matty's government. Grendel's lies are starting to become very complicated. I'm not sure if he knows which part the lie is - this is an excellent skill for an aspiring politician. Still, we must have patience. All will be revealed in due course. Lie 3, thanks, Grendel. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 16th, 2013 at 4:36pm skippy. wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 4:20pm:
No, Skippy, Grendel will apologize if he's found to be wrong. That's the rules. If he can't prove 61 lies, he must say he was wrong and promise not to do it again. Lie 3 thanks, Grendel. We have much patience. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 16th, 2013 at 4:39pm Grendel wrote on Jul 11th, 2013 at 9:09pm:
Lies proven so far: Rudd's ability to manage change when necessary (Grendel doesn't even need to prove that - it's self-evident). Australia has strong national security (the rebuttal: we don't have WMDs and a terrorist might get in on a boat). All other lies have been disproven. Grendel has 59 to go. Patience, leftards, patience. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 16th, 2013 at 5:18pm Karnal wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 4:39pm:
tsk, tsk tsk liar liar pants on fire... ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 16th, 2013 at 5:41pm Grendel wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 5:18pm:
Serious rebuttals only, thanks, Grendel. I don't make the rules, you know. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 16th, 2013 at 5:47pm
someone just shoot the dumb twat and put him out of his misery ....
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 16th, 2013 at 6:07pm sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 3:27pm:
you don't expect me or any thinking person to agree with that do you? ::) You can keep squirming and trying to move the goalposts... you can call black white... ignore sovereignty and people smugglers and call immigration issues the economy if you like, but unfortunately for you you just ain't right. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 16th, 2013 at 6:13pm
gotta zip
so to keep you folks honest ::) and give you something to do.... like ignore the facts and backslap each other here are the rest of Rudd's lies... so time for you to start cookin with gas and shakin that sauce bottle... Nine months into office, while implementing these productivity-based reforms, we, together with the rest of the world, were hit by the GFC. Lie 11 But our core economic priority, understandably, became national economic survival as we watched bank collapses around the world, depositors lose their savings and economies crash into recession with massive job losses. As you know, here in Australia, we deployed a national economic stimulus strategy, timely targeted and temporary, which helped keep Australia out of recession, kept the economy growing, and kept unemployment with a five in front of it – one of the lowest levels in the world. Lie by inference 12. And we did so with lower levels of debt and deficit than practically all the major advanced economies in the world. Lie by inference 13, These were our core preoccupations from 2008 to 2010. In early 2010 with the economy stabilising, as Prime Minister I returned to the theme of national productivity growth. Lie 14. Just to recap: in 2010 one in seven Australians were over the age of 65, whereas by 2050 that ratio will fall to one in four. Lie 15 – unknown. My confidence in rising to this challenge is underpinned by our economic fundamentals which we have kept strong, despite the pressures of the Global Financial Crisis. Lie 16 – debt and deficit The government will maintain a prudent approach to fiscal policy, returning the budget to surplus across the economic cycle – and as the Treasurer has recently confirmed. We will continue with our plan to return the budget to balance in the medium term. Lie 17 Because the China resources boom is coming off, Australia's core economic strategy for the future must be one which diversifies our economy, by creating more jobs in manufacturing, food production, infrastructure, construction, and our many other services industries, rather than having all our eggs in just one basket – the resources and energy sector. Lie by inference and contradiction 18 Relying on the lower dollar alone to boost competitiveness is insufficient for the great economic task that lies ahead. Lie 19. But before you all start reaching for your revolver on the carbon price, let's be rational about this: the carbon price at present contributes less than 10 per cent to national electricity prices. Lie 20. The primary reason for the hike in electricity prices appears to be the current system of national electricity regulation which has allowed excessive rates of return for publicly-owned transmission and distribution utilities I am also concerned that if you went through our business elites, you would not find a whole lot of the top 25 executives in each of our top 100 firms who have spent any of their career time serving in Asia – the engine driver of the global economy through until mid-century. Lie by inference 21. This is a problem of Australian enterprise. Not a problem created by Australian unions. Lie by inference 22. We now have universal pre-school education supervised by teachers for a minimum of 15 hours a week emphasising pre-literacy, pre-numeracy skills. Lie 23. We do, however, need to do more with vocational education and training, particularly given the recent withdrawal of effort by many of the states. Lie by inference 24. Number six: Infrastructure. Infrastructure Australia is doing great work. Lie 25. For the first time in the nation's history, a national infrastructure priority list has been developed on the basis of a rigorous cost-benefit analysis. Lie 26. The NBN is being rolled out – the new infrastructure of the 21st century which of itself becomes a massive productivity driver for firms. Lie 27. It also involves other productivity drivers such as the effective take up of the NBN. Lie 28. Mr Abbott says that Australia's core economic problem is that we are suffering from a debt and deficit crisis. Lie 29. He said: '… there is now a budget emergency.' (Budget Reply speech, 16 May 2013). Lie 30 he said a lot more. Mr Abbott, is a formidable politician – he is the nation's most formidable exponent of negative politics, and negative politics above all designed to induce feelings of worry, anxiety and fear in the community. Lie 31. He and the Liberal Party have concluded that fear is a far better political bet than engaging on a debate on the facts. Lie 32. Which is why once again Mr Abbott refused to debate the economic facts here today. Lie 33. Fact one: Despite Mr Abbott saying every day the economy is in crisis, since we have been in office the Australian economy has in fact grown by 14 per cent. Lie 34. And those of Germany and the United States have only grown about one fifth the rate of the Australian economy. Lie by inference 35. Fact four: Australia's budget deficit as a proportion of the size of our economy is also one of the lowest in the OECD. Lie by inference 36. Fact five: Australia's unemployment rate is lower than almost every major advanced economy. Lie 37 So this is the factual economic report card for Australia that Mr Abbott does not want to debate today. Lie 38. sorry no time to highlight for you ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 16th, 2013 at 6:15pm
I know you kokoda survivors wont let kev down...
Let's go to debt and deficit levels in particular - because this is what Mr Abbott has banged on about for three years now, and it will dominate Mr Abbott's negative message for the election campaign. Lie 39. Our debt level is scheduled to peak at 11.4 per cent of the size of our economy. Lie 40 -unknown Of course we should always be concerned if we have a debt. And we should always repay our debts responsibly. But Australia has one of the lowest debt levels in the world. Lie by inference 41. Because Mr Abbott's exaggerated claims on debt and deficit are based on a falsehood the whole house of cards he has constructed against the government's economic credentials, resting on the flimsy foundation of his debt and deficit attack, comes tumbling down. Lie 42 Mr Abbott's economic policy for the future is even worse. Lie 43 His prescription is to implement a slash and burn austerity drive across the nation. Lie 44 Well we have seen how that works in Queensland under Campbell Newman where business and consumer confidence has been shaken by the sacking of thousands of people, and the shrinking of critical government services. lie by inference 45 We have also seen the impact of austerity drives by conservative governments in the United Kingdom which nearly produced a double dip recession, and has continued to plague growth. Lie by inference 46 Just this year, the United Kingdom recorded the largest quarterly decline in household living standards in a generation. Lie by inference and omission 47 And please note this core fact: the British economy today is smaller than it was back in 2008. In summary, Mr Abbott just doesn't understand economics. Lie 48. Don't take my word for it. That is what former treasurer Peter Costello said about Mr Abbott. Lie contextual 49. Today, I wanted to debate the future of our economy. Mr Abbott's absence has made such a debate impossible. Therefore, whenever you hear Mr Abbott, Mr Hockey, Mr Robb or anyone else try and run the lines on an Australian debt and deficit crisis, remember this was the day for Mr Abbott to defend his case. Lie 50. Instead, Mr Abbott decided to cut and run. Lie 51. Run away from the facts. Lie 52 But keep pumping out the fear. Lie 53. In Mr Abbott's absence, what I have done today is outline our framework for tackling Australia's future economic challenges. Australia is now an economy in transition. A transition from the previous decade of the China resources boom. Lie by inference 54. To the decade ahead where we must now diversify our economy so that we don't have all our eggs in one basket. Lie by inference 55 The challenge for the Australian government is to accelerate a new national competitiveness agenda that boosts our long term productivity growth. We need to aim for a productivity number with a “2” in front of it. And to get there we need to bring the nation together, not pull it apart. Lie by inference 56 Australian Labor governments know how to manage the great transitions in our economy. Lie 57 We did it with the Hawke and Keating governments when they transitioned Australia from the old, closed, post-war economy to the new internationalised economy that sets us up for the future – producing 22 years of sustained economic growth and an underlying inflation rate of 2.5 per cent – a world record. Lie by inference 58 We did it again under this government when we transitioned Australia through what Paul Keating recently and eloquently described to me as the “valley of death” of the 2008-09 Great Global Recession. Lie 59 And I believe we can transition Australia again, capturing the gains of the Asian Century while diversifying the Australian economy so that in the future we have all sectors, all our cities and our regional centres lifting their economic performance. Australian Labor governments manage transitions. We sketch the future. We harness the energy and ambition of our people. Lie 60 And as the people's government, we put policy to work to put the changes in place that best secures our future. Lie 61. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 16th, 2013 at 6:17pm skippy. wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 4:20pm:
that's ok Skippy getting you to acknowledge they are lies just not significant ones ;D is a major breakthrough.. my job is done... ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Aussie on Jul 16th, 2013 at 6:33pm Quote:
Not quite Grendel. You have not explained what you meant with this comment, especially the reference to 'Jase.' Quote:
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 16th, 2013 at 6:54pm
Sorry, Grendel, you’re going to need to go back and explain each one of those lies "by inference".
You’re still on lie 3. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 16th, 2013 at 7:58pm
Grendel, an inference is an act of inferring something to be true. You can’t lie by inference - or "omission" - because an inference is not a statement of fact.
All lies in your above posts are therefore rebutted as non-lies. You have 59 lies left. Patience, leftards, patience. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 16th, 2013 at 7:59pm
THERE WILL BE NO CARBON TAX IN A GOVERNMENT I LEAD.
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by scope on Jul 16th, 2013 at 8:36pm Grendel wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 6:15pm:
21 pages to get to these supposed lies and this is all you have? fu.k your'e a dickhead Grendal |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 16th, 2013 at 8:55pm
Patience, Scope, patience. Grendel was just having a bit of a laugh.
He wants to do the leftards slowly. He’s playing them like a cat with a ball of wool. Don’t worry, Grendel will post all 61 lies or apologize to everybody and promise not to do it again. Those are Grendel’s rules. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Jasignature on Jul 16th, 2013 at 9:04pm
OZ polititians are sub-ordinant pissants in the scheme of things.
Japan will get it's right to whale thanks to the legal/political empowerment of the USA, rather than the subject at hand as pushed by Australia. Rudd, Abbott?? It doens't matter - they are cowards! :P ::) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 16th, 2013 at 9:09pm Karnal wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 8:55pm:
Karnal, Grendel is a LW Conservative, and she is out to get those nasty... centrards? Anyway. I'm fairly sure this ends the debate, centrards! Grendel has either shown that Rudd lied by inference or by unknown throughout his entire speech. I now ask that all centrards apologise to our future deputy pm. And centrards, next time have some patience, patience. Grendel is a master at doing you all slowly. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by mantra on Jul 16th, 2013 at 9:17pm sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 9:09pm:
Grendel is a male. This thread might surpass the "Spot of Troll" thread which totalled 144 pages. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 16th, 2013 at 9:19pm sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 9:09pm:
Sorry, Alevine, allow me to get this straight. Are you saying Grendel has shown us that Rudd didn’t really lie in his speech, but instead made inferences? You’re right. I can see how Grendel must hate these rusted on centrards. Understandably so. Typical. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 16th, 2013 at 9:19pm mantra wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 9:17pm:
Typo. Typical centrard for picking up on it ;) Anyway this thread can end as Grendel has done you all, slowly. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 16th, 2013 at 9:22pm Karnal wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 9:19pm:
That's right karnal; either lied by inference or by unknown. I'm really pissed off that he lied by unknown! What a maniac to do such a thing! Thankfully Grendel spotted it, as unlike rusted on centrards he is a LW conservative and doesn't believe... centrard propaganda. All we needed was patience, karnal, patience. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 16th, 2013 at 9:23pm
;D ;D ;D
you can just smell the fear!!! |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Jul 16th, 2013 at 10:42pm
I would be surprised if even Macca can beat this topic for the troll of the week award.
Grand has been superb actually producing 61 pieces of absolute nothing - it has been amazing. worthless but amazing. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 16th, 2013 at 10:48pm Dnarever wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 10:42pm:
he seriously needs to get a life .... it would have been a lot of work to come up with all that claptrap of his |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 16th, 2013 at 10:52pm
Now now, centrards, no need for backslapping. Grendel hasn’t finished yet.
Rudd has many more lies, inferences, omissions and unknowns to go. We are going to need someone with a rusted on dedication to truth to counter these, and who better a man for the job than Grendel? Suck it up, leftards. There are infinite lies to go. Not Mr Abbott though. Grendel doesn’t do him. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 17th, 2013 at 7:08am Aussie wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:52pm:
He is pretending he already answered you - he is just trolling it seems. SOB |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 17th, 2013 at 11:17am John Smith wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 10:48pm:
That's true, JS, but Grendel needs to show how bad Rudd is and convince us of Mr Abbott's truthfulness and marvelous vision for this country of ours. By keeping mum, Mr Abbott isn't helping too much, but Grendel's a true believer. He's a swinging voter, a LW Conservative. Thoughts? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 22nd, 2013 at 2:41pm
Ah yes you guys, hassle and ridicule... both of you need new names... sloth and bluster perhaps.
I more than fulfilled my part of the deal and here you are letting the side down again. Karnal wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 7:58pm:
Oh dear.... you need lessons from kevvy... So just for those who think they know stuff and really don't. Quote:
Quote:
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 22nd, 2013 at 2:42pm Karnal wrote on Jul 16th, 2013 at 10:52pm:
I didn't start the topic... ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 22nd, 2013 at 2:53pm
Gotta zip.... things to do elsewhere...
you guys have a lot of catching up to do still. But I'll be back when I get the chance to see how you're doing. ::) Oh yeah Kevs 2 newies... re the $380/year and the ETS. Hmmm, now what was that other one? maybe you guys can get back to me? ;D Quote:
If you swallow that one you deserve to choke on it. ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by alevine on Jul 22nd, 2013 at 2:56pm
Grendel, I think the lies by unknown were absolutely outrageous!
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 22nd, 2013 at 3:19pm Grendel wrote on Jul 22nd, 2013 at 2:53pm:
Come on Gretel ... your comment was that he had 61 lies in his speech the other week. Now you want to try and introduce lies from 2007? and you're only up to number 3? hahahaha you just don't know when to shut up do you ..... :D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by skippy. on Jul 22nd, 2013 at 4:18pm John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2013 at 3:19pm:
Boofy is not very bright, he's always had a habit of shooting off his mouth with both feet firmly inplanted. But hey , we need someone to make maqqa look bright. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Aussie on Jul 22nd, 2013 at 4:33pm Quote:
Found anyone yet? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 22nd, 2013 at 5:05pm John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2013 at 3:19pm:
I posted the 61 Johnboy... I merely posted the extra to prove it's habitual. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 22nd, 2013 at 5:40pm Grendel wrote on Jul 22nd, 2013 at 5:05pm:
is that what that was? now can you stop your thread about your fantasies and get to the real lies please? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 22nd, 2013 at 7:05pm
Not my thread... Goodnight Johnboy.
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Jul 22nd, 2013 at 8:41pm
Grend needs to work out that if he stops posting on this topic his embarrassment may end for a while.
We are not likely to find a more pathetic list of false lies anywhere. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by John Smith on Jul 22nd, 2013 at 8:44pm Dnarever wrote on Jul 22nd, 2013 at 8:41pm:
oh don't worry, Grendel spreads his pathetic lies all over the forum ... they aren't just limited to this thread. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Jul 22nd, 2013 at 8:59pm Grendel wrote on Jul 22nd, 2013 at 5:05pm:
Some accepted one or two from the pathetic list - most didn't really concede any were correct. It was terrible. I thought you were going to accuse him of lying about the length of his right shoe lace at one stage. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 23rd, 2013 at 11:31am Dnarever wrote on Jul 22nd, 2013 at 8:59pm:
Johnboy... how sad and pathetic of you ;D DNA... a lie is a lie and kevin spreads em like confetti in the wind. You can ignore them or accept them as the truth if you like. I prefer reality. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 23rd, 2013 at 11:33am
BTW DNA
Why should I be embarrassed for telling the truth? It's people like you and kevin who should be embarrassed. ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 23rd, 2013 at 11:34am
Spotty... still cant be bothered to go back and see where I answered you eh :D
Still haven't answered my question either... tsk, tsk, tsk... how hypocritical of you. ::) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 23rd, 2013 at 5:39pm
What you don't even know his recent lies?
No wonder you guys have problems... Guess you forgot kevvy promised no unilateral action to Indonesia... :D a week later... ta da.....h Go kevvy... keep telling them lies. ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Jul 23rd, 2013 at 10:43pm
Me too, Grend. I like lie by inference.
Confetti. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Jul 23rd, 2013 at 11:11pm Grendel wrote on Jul 23rd, 2013 at 11:33am:
You should be embarrassed for posting a load of worthless rubbish and then just keeping on digging the hole deeper and deeper. Nothing in a list of 61 pieces of rubbish is any worse than him getting the number of lollies in his pocket wrong and well over 90% of your claims are just plain wrong. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Jul 23rd, 2013 at 11:12pm
dig dig dig scratch scratch dig dig.
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Jul 23rd, 2013 at 11:37pm Grendel wrote on Jul 23rd, 2013 at 5:39pm:
Talking about party leaders telling lies how is Whyalla doing? I am thinking about selling tours of the ashes and ruins of the site where the city once stood. Does Tony still think that a tax is the best option if you want to take action on carbon emissions? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 24th, 2013 at 5:40am Grendel wrote on Jul 23rd, 2013 at 11:34am:
I answered your question several times. Here it is again: YOU are the one that is defining conservatism by saying abbott isnt the most conservative liberal leader. Since YOU made the statement YOU are the one that needs to provide a definition (and answer who was more conservative than him). SOB |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 24th, 2013 at 1:25pm Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 24th, 2013 at 5:40am:
Spotty Spotty Spotty :D :D :D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 24th, 2013 at 1:28pm
I see little Kev's been spraying a mouthful of lies again today...
DNA... I expected better. I hope you really aren't so politcally biased you refuse to see the truth from the lies. And yes unlike you I don't dismiss small lies as unimportant. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by life_goes_on on Jul 24th, 2013 at 1:30pm
A quick game is a good game.
List all 61 lies in the one post. If any need post after tedious post of explanation and/or argument then even to the most retarded of house plants it would be obvious that the definition of "lie" is at best being stretched. So... cut the crap and trolling and just put those 61 lies out there in one go. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 24th, 2013 at 1:43pm
Whyalla?
Mr Abbott reiterated comments made last week by Australian Workers Union state secretary Wayne Hanson that a carbon tax would wipe Whyalla and Port Pirie off the map. While Whyalla Deputy Mayor and local businessman Colin Carter has labelled the comments an "emotional statement", Mr Abbott said the threat to the town, and other steelmaking cities such as Newcastle, was very real. "Obviously the Prime Minister's carbon tax is going to have a dramatic impact on the profitability of this plant," Mr Abbott said after touring the OneSteel operations. "This plant is currently only marginally profitable. (The carbon tax) will threaten its long term viability and obviously it will damage the job prospects of the nearly 4000 people who are directly or indirectly dependant upon this plant. "Whyalla risks becoming a ghost town, an economic wasteland, if this carbon tax goes ahead." While OneSteel would not comment specifically on the profitability of the Whyalla steelmaking iterations, spokesman Steve Ashe said the company's manufacturing division made a $71 million loss for the second-half of last year. Ok so are you saying he repeated a lie DNA? Are you saying that a $71 million dollar loss is insignificant and bodes well for the company's future? "Whyalla wipeout" was an ALP exaggeration, so that dope Emerson could "sing" a song... surely one of the most stupid acts of a disingenuous politician ever. Now Abbott did not say Whyalla would be wiped out... he said it ran the risk of becoming an economic wasteland under the carbon tax policy... which it did/does... if the policy was to continue and if the cost of power keeps going up there is indeed that risk. Obviously for reasons illogical you disagree... that's ok ::) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 24th, 2013 at 1:44pm Life_goes_on wrote on Jul 24th, 2013 at 1:30pm:
Already been done for the vast majority 50 or so thanks... perhaps you should read a topic before YOU start trolling eh. ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 24th, 2013 at 1:46pm
Gotta zip folks... ;D ;D ;D
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 26th, 2013 at 11:17am
Starting to look like Rudd's PNG deal was just a bluff... is a bluff a lie? ;)
Obviously a much simpler question you guys might be able to actually handle. ;D ;D ;D So many LW Progs and so little sense... ;) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 26th, 2013 at 11:33am Grendel wrote on Jul 24th, 2013 at 1:25pm:
So you arent going to answer? SOB |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Jul 26th, 2013 at 1:10pm Grendel wrote on Jul 24th, 2013 at 1:28pm:
You can not post the 61 pieces of irrelevant garbage you have and then claim to not be biased in the extreme, any balance person would consider your list a pathetic joke. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Jul 26th, 2013 at 1:29pm Grendel wrote on Jul 24th, 2013 at 1:43pm:
''Whyalla risks becoming a ghost town, an economic wasteland, if this carbon tax goes ahead,'' Mr Abbott said. Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/abbott-works-wedge-between-swan-and-unions-over-tax-20110427-1dwzc.html#ixzz2a7NXYwB1 Abbott used the Whyalla example many times and failed to attribute the comment to anyone but himself on most occasions. His additions to the statement were his own. Now Abbott did not say[/b] Whyalla would be wiped out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F-r-KtKDcU Are you saying that a $71 million dollar loss is insignificant and bodes well for the company's future? Go have a look at their financial reports for the reasons. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 26th, 2013 at 7:09pm
Soooooo... you don't know what the word "risks" means? ::)
Should I post a definition for you? The other anecdotal stuff also is irrelevant to you ::) ::) ::) And you are going to keep ignoring or making excuses for Rudd continuing to lie? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Jul 27th, 2013 at 12:46am Grendel wrote on Jul 24th, 2013 at 1:43pm:
Now Abbott did not say[/b] Whyalla would be wiped out.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jMHoEMwFNQ Looks a lot like TABbott to me? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Jul 27th, 2013 at 1:07am Grendel wrote on Jul 24th, 2013 at 1:43pm:
spokesman Steve Ashe said the company's manufacturing division made a $71 million loss for the second-half of last year. Ok so are you saying he repeated a lie DNA? Every opportunity he had and most of the time didn't mention that he was repeating anything - he routinely passed it off as his own. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 27th, 2013 at 2:55pm
What he said wasn't a lie DNA how many times must I keep repeating myself and it for you?
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Jul 27th, 2013 at 2:59pm risk (rsk) n. 1. The possibility of suffering harm or loss; danger. loss: a poor risk. tr.v. risked, risk·ing, risks 1. To expose to a chance of loss or damage; hazard. See Synonyms at endanger. ::) ::) ::) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Aug 4th, 2013 at 6:05pm
Well well well... What evs kev is at it again.
His first speech of the election campaign more lies and half truths... go What evs... ::) |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Aug 4th, 2013 at 10:13pm
dear ol' What evs kev...
He said; "Three-word slogans don't solve complex problems, they never have and they never will." Somebody better tell him his campaign slogan has 3 words in it. ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Aug 4th, 2013 at 11:39pm Grendel wrote on Jul 27th, 2013 at 2:55pm:
OK I'll check again but just the other day Whyalla was still there. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Aug 4th, 2013 at 11:49pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jMHoEMwFNQ
Whyalla will be wiped off the Map. No ifs or buts - its gone. Apparently there was the risk of it becoming a ghost town but defiantly no longer on the map. Stated by Tony Abbott, attributed to nobody but Tony Abbott. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Aug 5th, 2013 at 12:08am Grendel wrote on Aug 4th, 2013 at 6:05pm:
Another 651 lies which turns out to be about 1 maybe if you change the words and look at it standing on your head. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Aug 5th, 2013 at 1:57pm
You do realise how pathetic your harping on incorrectly about that makes you look don't you dna?
Why don't you move on to one of the 61 lies I posted maybe you can redeem yourself. ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Aug 10th, 2013 at 10:36am
Lies damned lies and the ALP...
One thing that Gillard and Rudd have excelled at as PMs and that is telling lies. The current 3 ig ones doing the rounds are: 1/ the missing $70 billion from Coalition accounting, 2/ the reality behind the latest interest rate cut, and 3/ Abbott's alleged plans to increase the GST. Lie, lie, lie... 1/ The origin of Labor's crap about austerity and the charge that Abbott is planning ''cuts to the bone'' to cover his $70 billion black hole was of course Joe Hockey. It was a figure Hockey verbally confided to a colleague in 2011, remember that? labor made a big deal of it then, but never told the truth about it. It was a figure created to unearth a leaker. Different figures were told to different people and once it surfaced. the leaker was found. Hockey however was given a difficult time by the LW media of course not helped by the continuous lies of the ALP. A good idea, but one that partially back-fired. Rudd and co are now touting that figure again. Funny that. Rudd of course always the consummate liar has embellished it even further, calling it an open Coalition commitment to an austerity program the likes Australia has never seen before. Food for the rusted-on mindless masses. ''We are investing in Australian families and what they need, as opposed to Mr Abbott, who has said he will be in the business of ripping $70 billion out, which means cuts to jobs, education and education services, as well as cuts to health,'' he said. Reporter: On the question of accuracy, you have said here today that Tony Abbott is planning $70 billion worth of cuts. I wonder if you can point to where he's said that? Rudd: Mr Hockey announced that number a long time ago. They have never walked away from it. Even the ever so biased political fact-checking service PolitiFact has tested the assertion and found it to be false because it is based on dodgy assumptions, exaggerations and simple guesses. Penny Wong has admitted it is based on guesses. 2/ The interest rate cut. Borrowers, of course, welcome any relief, which is why Rudd was crowing on Tuesday. But Labor's claim that Hockey was arguing against the cut was nonsense. just another lie. Swan used to do the same thing as Rudd claim low interest rates were a Labor blessing bestowed upon the public yet failed to mention that RBA reductions were made to stir a stagnant economy. The Reserve Bank has been ordering cuts to stimulate a slowing economy for years. Considering te ALP's dishonesty with just about everything, the wisdom of Hockey to get into an argument about rates, is debatable. But his point about the lowest cash rate since the 1950s, a soft economy and a worrying outlook, is completely correct. 3/ Finally, there's the faux debate over the GST. Faux Aussie... get it? Labor says Abbott and Hockey are planning to increase it. This is a scare campaign, pure and simple. That the Coalition has said for quite a while now that it will include the GST within the scope of a planned tax review sometime during it's first term is true and to its credit. That Labor did not do so with its Henry review was pathetic. Anyone with a brain, should know, that Abbott has said... there are no plans to touch the GST and has further promised that should the review recommend any changes, he would take those plans to a subsequent election. One more time for the ALP dummies... If any changes are made it must include the cooperation of all the states and that the Coalition will seek a mandate to implement those changes at the next election and not before. When it comes to lying What evs kev just can't help himself... |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Aug 10th, 2013 at 10:38am
They just keep rolling off his tongue...
Talk about a desperate Kevin, today he was lying about the cost of vegemite. :roll: Not only has he said the Coalition will change the GST to cover food, he has them putting it up an extra 2% The sooner this lying poo gets put down the better... |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Neferti on Aug 10th, 2013 at 10:49am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIKM1K76Hnk
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Aug 10th, 2013 at 10:58am Grendel wrote on Aug 10th, 2013 at 10:36am:
Quote:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/joe-hockey-regrets-70bn-savings-figure/story-fn59niix-1226265970680 Yep Rudd Lied because the Libs have re written the facts. Hockey freely admits to saying it and the rubbish posted trying to show some sort of Rudd Lie is in itself a lie. Fact is that the Liberals announced spending has to be paid for somehow by someone, it is money they don't have and a shite load of it. History clearly shows what they are most likely to do. Rudd is correct. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Aug 10th, 2013 at 11:12am Grendel wrote on Aug 10th, 2013 at 10:36am:
Quote:
Of course you guys are now saying that John Howard telling us for years that low interest rates were a good thing and a sign of their great economic management was a lie???? The question is why is it now that Hockey has chosen to call Howard a liar ??? "Interest rates will always be lower under a coalition government" John Howard - and a line worshipped by ever conservative supporter. You got the title wrong - it does not say Howards 61 Lies. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Aug 10th, 2013 at 11:49am
Don't you love when people who think they are bright get sucked in...
Quote:
Yep he did and does with phenomenal regularity DNA. Instead of trying to find excuses for this maggot just admit it... so much simpler and so much more honest. Oh and please... do try to quote things in context if you want to try and defend the indefensible. Howard and Hockey even explained that the other day ::) ::) ::) it doesn't take a mental giant to understand the reality of the situation unless you are a rusted-on ALP supporter it seems. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Aug 10th, 2013 at 3:15pm Grendel wrote on Aug 10th, 2013 at 11:49am:
JOE Hockey says he regrets saying the Coalition needed to find up to $70 billion to fund its election promises Hockey has been trying to re write that bit of his history ever since he said it. Unfortunately Treasury looked at the numbers and said that it was right, the Independents looked at the numbers and found the same thing and Hockey admitted that it was correct. You would not recognise a lie if it hit you over the head. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Aug 10th, 2013 at 6:11pm Dnarever wrote on Aug 10th, 2013 at 3:15pm:
I'm sorry I was born and around when the first $70 billion crap was brought up by the ALP. What I've written can be verified by any competent journalist and has been ;D What you believe DNA is just plain crap. ::) Even Laurie Oakes an ALP supporter, and Mark Kenny, just to name 2 have verified it. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Aug 10th, 2013 at 6:47pm Grendel wrote on Aug 10th, 2013 at 6:11pm:
Dribble all you like what I posted was the words used by Hockey himself at the time. It is fact that treasury found the same problem and that the Independants agreed that it was true. This is not opinion these are facts - it is what happened. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by longweekend58 on Aug 10th, 2013 at 7:19pm Dnarever wrote on Aug 10th, 2013 at 11:12am:
Howard himself address this one. AS he pointed out, low interest rates in a stagnant or failing economy are an embarrassment - or should be. The real skill is getting low interest rates in a BOOMING economy. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by longweekend58 on Aug 10th, 2013 at 7:21pm Dnarever wrote on Aug 10th, 2013 at 3:15pm:
a comment from 2 years ago prior to the current set of policies. do you want a re-run of Labor policies? what about the heap of policies they promised and didn't implement and as for cost-overruns... labor has $70B black holes EVERY YEAR. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Aug 10th, 2013 at 7:57pm longweekend58 wrote on Aug 10th, 2013 at 7:21pm:
Quote:
It was a figure Hockey verbally confided to a colleague in 2011, remember that? labor made a big deal of it then, but never told the truth about it. It was a figure created to unearth a leaker. This is the fantasy Grend came out with - My post is in this context ??? You like to agree with what Grend has said ?????? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Aug 10th, 2013 at 9:19pm
Funnily enough Laurie and Mark agree with me as do many other journos...
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Aug 10th, 2013 at 9:31pm Grendel wrote on Aug 10th, 2013 at 9:19pm:
Bet you have no link to support that ?? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Aug 10th, 2013 at 9:38pm
Why don't you google it then like i did.
Everything I posted was true in fact the post was based on a Mark Kenny article. It must gall you to have faith and believe the crap that Rudd and his party put out. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Aug 17th, 2013 at 8:27pm
No stomach for the truth then eh?
Not to worry your glorious leader kevin has been caught out lying again. This time it is the details of the PNG deal he's been lying about. :D :D :D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Aug 17th, 2013 at 10:01pm Grendel wrote on Aug 10th, 2013 at 9:38pm:
An articly where Mark was very obviously wrong or didn't know what he was talking about. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Aug 17th, 2013 at 10:09pm longweekend58 wrote on Aug 10th, 2013 at 7:19pm:
AS he pointed out, low interest rates in a stagnant or failing economy are an embarrassment - When Interest rates went to their lowest following 2000 with a world economic downturn coupled with the introduction of the GST interest rates were reduced to stimulate an economy in trouble - the very same reason we see at this time. Howard is just trying to rewrite the history and to modify his original statment in order to appear to have been honest. Had gillard said the same thing it would have been labled as a lie. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Aug 18th, 2013 at 10:30pm Dnarever wrote on Aug 17th, 2013 at 10:01pm:
Spoken like a true denialist or someone incapable of doing a bit of research or keeping up to date on Australian politics or all of the above. ;D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Aug 18th, 2013 at 10:32pm Grendel wrote on Aug 17th, 2013 at 8:27pm:
No denial or refutation here? No? the other facts about Rudd lying are true as well... no need to go to great lengths to try and disprove the truth. :D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Aug 30th, 2013 at 3:15pm
A week and a bit to go and Kevin and Co are still trotting out the lies...
Now Treasury has walked away from them mid lie. When will they ever learn? The Liebor Party |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Sep 10th, 2013 at 4:26pm
Sad isn't it... even in his seemingly endless concession speech KRudd still told lies....
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Good news though people.... Labor lost Greens are down by almost a third. Kevin says he won't stand again... maybe... not that he can be trusted. :D |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Sep 10th, 2013 at 4:46pm Grendel wrote on Sep 10th, 2013 at 4:26pm:
I'm sorry, Grendel, that's not good enough. You're going to need to go through them one by one. How many, by the way? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Sep 10th, 2013 at 7:06pm Karnal wrote on Sep 10th, 2013 at 4:46pm:
I think he ended with 1 maybe and 3 possible ???? |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Sep 10th, 2013 at 7:46pm Dnarever wrote on Sep 10th, 2013 at 7:06pm:
That’s not many. I can think of more than that - by omission alone. No, I’d say there must be at least 60 to 70 lies - possibly more. Am I right, Grendel? Please explain. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Dnarever on Sep 10th, 2013 at 8:02pm Karnal wrote on Sep 10th, 2013 at 7:46pm:
I would think that Abbott probably tells more lies before breakfast on most days that Rudd and Gillard combined since 2007. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Karnal on Sep 11th, 2013 at 10:38am Dnarever wrote on Sep 10th, 2013 at 8:02pm:
I don't think Grendel would agree with you there, Dnarever. Mind you, if Grendel was retrospective and looked at Mr Abbott's statements over the last 4 years - budget emergency, stopping boats, ending the Labor waste - I think he'd have to concur. There's no budget emergency. problem with boats, or drastic spending waste anymore. Amazing what an election can do. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Sep 11th, 2013 at 4:22pm Karnal wrote on Sep 10th, 2013 at 4:46pm:
Didn't count, you guys, are clueless anyway. We could start with labor not losing any seats in Qld. An unknown at the time but kevvy went ahead and said it anyway. he just can't help himself. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Sep 11th, 2013 at 4:24pm Karnal wrote on Sep 10th, 2013 at 7:46pm:
history lesson for karnal. hey karnal... I didn't start this topic... one of your lefty mates did. :D ;) :o 8-) :P ::) let me know the year when the penny finally drops odds are I'll still be around somewhere. |
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Title: Re: Rudd's 61 lies by Grendal Post by Grendel on Sep 11th, 2013 at 4:26pm Dnarever wrote on Sep 10th, 2013 at 8:02pm:
You would think that why? because of your irrational personal and political bias against the guy? ::) ::) ::) :D |
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