http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/kevin-rudds-ets-move-at-mercy-of-hostile-greens-20130717-2q3lq.html

Kevin Rudd's pledge to ''terminate'' the carbon tax appears to be an unrealistic election promise, with the Greens party determined to block the legislation.

Greens leader Christine Milne said her party would not support the Prime Minister's plan to dump the carbon tax and accelerate the move to an emissions trading scheme  in 2014, a year earlier than planned.

Senator Milne took particular objection to Mr Rudd's plans to partly fund his promise – which costs the budget $3.8 billion – by slashing government programs including environmental and clean energy schemes.

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"The Greens would not support a move to give a $4 billion windfall to make it cheaper for the polluters to pollute and to lose those great programs," Senator Milne said on Wednesday.

Senator Milne's statement is a blow to Mr Rudd's election campaign. The Prime Minister's announcement on Tuesday that the carbon tax would be "terminated" was designed to blunt Tony Abbott's anti-tax attacks.

But Mr Rudd cannot honour his promise to dump the carbon tax without the support of the Greens Party.

''Prime Minister Rudd is out there trying to pretend that he can deliver this,'' Senator Milne said.

''He is a Prime Minister of a minority government ... [Rudd] has to stop pretending that former Prime Minister Gillard didn't achieve an emissions trading scheme.''

Senator Milne's announcement means both Labor and the Coalition are approaching this election with climate change policies that are unlikely to pass the Parliament.

Since polls have tightened following Mr Rudd's reinstatement, the Coalition is unlikely to have the numbers to repeal the carbon tax and shepherd their Direct Action climate policy through both houses of Parliament.

Earlier on Wednesday, Labor had been hinting it may recall Parliament before the election to consider its plan to accelerate the move to an emissions trading scheme.

Climate Change Minister Mark Butler says legislation will be drafted before the election.

''In the event that Parliament were to resume before the election, I could take draft legislation to the Parliament,'' Mr Butler told ABC TV on Wednesday.

If either house rejected the legislation, Labor would take it to the election and seek a mandate from the people, he said.

Deputy Prime Minister Anthony Albanese is confident Parliament will support the government's plan.

''Of course, we would get it through,'' he told Sky News.

''For [Mr Abbott] to stand in the way of a $380 improvement in living standards for the average family would be an extraordinary position.''

Both Mr Albanese and cabinet colleague Penny Wong fired shots at the Greens, who hold the balance of power in the Senate.

Mr Albanese dared ''this mob'' to reject legislation, while Senator Wong recalled a decision by the Greens to vote down Labor's plan for an emissions trading scheme in 2009.

''The Greens have got to start being held responsible for their destructive impact on climate policy over these last years,'' Senator Wong said.

While the government describes the package of changes to fund the ETS pledge as ''sensible [and] moderate'', the move has been criticised by the opposition and automotive industry.

Meanwhile, the Coalition has claimed changes to fringe benefits tax - announced by the government to help offset the cost of moving to an ETS early - will lead to a ''complete meltdown'' in Australian car making.

Speaking on Wednesday, shadow treasurer Joe Hockey said car orders were already being stopped because of ''massive uncertainty'' caused by the changes.

''This is going to be a complete meltdown in Australian manufacturing as a result of the announcement,'' Mr Hockey told Macquarie Radio.

Treasurer Chris Bowen said the government hadn't abolished an FBT concession for motor vehicles.

''If you are using your motor vehicle for business use, you deserve the reduction, you'll get the reduction, you'll keep the reduction,'' he told reporters in Sydney.

Mr Bowen said that people who claim business usage will need to justify their claim, either by filling in a log book or using a mobile phone app to track their percentage of business use over three months every five years.

''If you are going to return to surplus, if you are going to have responsible measures in place, that means sometimes making tough decisions,'' he said.

Parliament adjourned on June 28 and is scheduled to return on August 20, pending a decision about an election date.

If they can block Rudd's plan, doesn't that also mean they can block Abbott 'axe the tax' plan?

John Smith wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 7:31pm:

If they can block Rudd's plan, doesn't that also mean they can block Abbott 'axe the tax' plan?

I know it hurts your head but think about it

Rudd's promise is based on his assumption he might win government and still need the Greens for preferences

In that case - Milne is correct in saying she'll block it

Under your assumption of the Greens blocking the Abbott's move - you seem to think Abbott needs the Greens vote

Given that Rudd have now moved to an ETS this means the ALP is free to vote with the LIBs to scrap the carbon tax after the election

Maqqa wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 7:51pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 7:31pm: If they can block Rudd's plan, doesn't that also mean they can block Abbott 'axe the tax' plan? I know it hurts your head but think about it Rudd's promise is based on his assumption he might win government and still need the Greens for preferences In that case - Milne is correct in saying she'll block it Under your assumption of the Greens blocking the Abbott's move - you seem to think Abbott needs the Greens vote Given that Rudd have now moved to an ETS this means the ALP is free to vote with the LIBs to scrap the carbon tax after the election

Listen dopey, Rudds promise is made on the basis that he wins ... it is you who wants to dirty the waters by claiming he still need to preference the Greens. If the Greens can block labor, they can block the libs ... stop being such a d1ckhead all your life.

John Smith wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 7:55pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 7:51pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 7:31pm: If they can block Rudd's plan, doesn't that also mean they can block Abbott 'axe the tax' plan? I know it hurts your head but think about it Rudd's promise is based on his assumption he might win government and still need the Greens for preferences In that case - Milne is correct in saying she'll block it Under your assumption of the Greens blocking the Abbott's move - you seem to think Abbott needs the Greens vote Given that Rudd have now moved to an ETS this means the ALP is free to vote with the LIBs to scrap the carbon tax after the election Listen dopey, Rudds promise is made on the basis that he wins ... it is you who wants to dirty the waters by claiming he still need to preference the Greens. If the Greens can block labor, they can block the libs ... stop being such a d1ckhead all your life.

What are you basing your opinion on?

The current polls?

The same polls where the ALP relied to the Greens preference

Suck it up princess

Maqqa wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 7:51pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 7:31pm: If they can block Rudd's plan, doesn't that also mean they can block Abbott 'axe the tax' plan? I know it hurts your head but think about it Rudd's promise is based on his assumption he might win government and still need the Greens for preferences In that case - Milne is correct in saying she'll block it Under your assumption of the Greens blocking the Abbott's move - you seem to think Abbott needs the Greens vote Given that Rudd have now moved to an ETS this means the ALP is free to vote with the LIBs to scrap the carbon tax after the election

Yes - I am sure the Greens will not support a weakening of the carbon price.  That is consistent withe their policies.  They are a party with integrity.

But are you saying that a Lib opposition would also vote to keep a "carbon tax"

Really?!?!?!

Haven't they been whinging for thepast 3 years about having a "carbon tax"
Are you telling us that they are so hypocritical.  So shallow.  So useless that they would actually turn 180 degrees and suddenly vote FOR a "carbon tax"

Wow - great bunch of guys you support there.
You can really trust guys like that.  (...although I don't think I'd trust Cory Bernardi with one of my dogs...he has some funny ideas that one)

rabbitoh07 wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 7:59pm:

But are you saying that a Lib opposition would also vote to keep a "carbon tax" Really?!?!?!

Where did I say this?

Maqqa wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 8:09pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 7:59pm: But are you saying that a Lib opposition would also vote to keep a "carbon tax" Really?!?!?! Where did I say this?

Lie by inference.

STOP THE BOATS.

Karnal wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 8:56pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 8:09pm: rabbitoh07 wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 7:59pm: But are you saying that a Lib opposition would also vote to keep a "carbon tax" Really?!?!?! Where did I say this? Lie by inference. STOP THE BOATS.

So now it's gone from a claim that I've said something

To "lie by inference"

And somehow the inference of the stop the boat relates to the mechanism of an ETS  ;D ;D ;D

Karnal wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 8:56pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 8:09pm: rabbitoh07 wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 7:59pm: But are you saying that a Lib opposition would also vote to keep a "carbon tax" Really?!?!?! Where did I say this? Lie by inference. STOP THE BOATS.

That's right , Karnal. It is indeed a lie by inference!  Well spotted!
Maqqa is definitely not a LW conservative.

Maqqa wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 7:58pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 7:55pm: Maqqa wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 7:51pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 7:31pm: If they can block Rudd's plan, doesn't that also mean they can block Abbott 'axe the tax' plan? I know it hurts your head but think about it Rudd's promise is based on his assumption he might win government and still need the Greens for preferences In that case - Milne is correct in saying she'll block it Under your assumption of the Greens blocking the Abbott's move - you seem to think Abbott needs the Greens vote Given that Rudd have now moved to an ETS this means the ALP is free to vote with the LIBs to scrap the carbon tax after the election Listen dopey, Rudds promise is made on the basis that he wins ... it is you who wants to dirty the waters by claiming he still need to preference the Greens. If the Greens can block labor, they can block the libs ... stop being such a d1ckhead all your life. What are you basing your opinion on? The current polls? The same polls where the ALP relied to the Greens preference Suck it up princess

What do mean what am I basing my opinion on? Logic ... you should try it sometime.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 9:04pm:

Karnal wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 8:56pm: Maqqa wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 8:09pm: rabbitoh07 wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 7:59pm: But are you saying that a Lib opposition would also vote to keep a "carbon tax" Really?!?!?! Where did I say this? Lie by inference. STOP THE BOATS. That's right , Karnal. It is indeed a lie by inference!  Well spotted! Maqqa is definitely not a LW conservative.

Could one say he’s a rusted-on, or does this only apply to the leftards?

Thoughts?

Karnal wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 9:25pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 9:04pm: Karnal wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 8:56pm: Maqqa wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 8:09pm: rabbitoh07 wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 7:59pm: But are you saying that a Lib opposition would also vote to keep a "carbon tax" Really?!?!?! Where did I say this? Lie by inference. STOP THE BOATS. That's right , Karnal. It is indeed a lie by inference!  Well spotted! Maqqa is definitely not a LW conservative. Could one say he’s a rusted-on, or does this only apply to the leftards? Thoughts?

Karnal, I don't know if you can call liberal party employees "rusted on". Maqqa is only doing his job.

Maqqa wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 8:09pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 7:59pm: But are you saying that a Lib opposition would also vote to keep a "carbon tax" Really?!?!?! Where did I say this?

In the title of this thread:

Greens will block Rudd's ETS promise

The Greens can only block anything if the COALition voted that way too.

Or don't you understand how Parliament works?

STOP THE BOATS!!!!!!!

Karnal wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 9:25pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 9:04pm: Karnal wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 8:56pm: Maqqa wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 8:09pm: rabbitoh07 wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 7:59pm: But are you saying that a Lib opposition would also vote to keep a "carbon tax" Really?!?!?! Where did I say this? Lie by inference. STOP THE BOATS. That's right , Karnal. It is indeed a lie by inference!  Well spotted! Maqqa is definitely not a LW conservative. Could one say he’s a rusted-on, or does this only apply to the leftards? Thoughts?

definitely !!

rabbitoh07 wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 9:42pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 8:09pm: rabbitoh07 wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 7:59pm: But are you saying that a Lib opposition would also vote to keep a "carbon tax" Really?!?!?! Where did I say this? In the title of this thread: Greens will block Rudd's ETS promise The Greens can only block anything if the COALition voted that way too. Or don't you understand how Parliament works?

I thought he was talking about the senate...

dont tell me bandt expects to get back in.. ;D ;D ;D ;D

cods wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 9:47pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 9:42pm: Maqqa wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 8:09pm: rabbitoh07 wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 7:59pm: But are you saying that a Lib opposition would also vote to keep a "carbon tax" Really?!?!?! Where did I say this? In the title of this thread: Greens will block Rudd's ETS promise The Greens can only block anything if the COALition voted that way too. Or don't you understand how Parliament works? I thought he was talking about the senate... dont tell me bandt expects to get back in.. ;D ;D ;D ;D

? Senate is part of parliament.

Labor really has made a mess of this carbon tax announcement by KRudd. For years they've been passionately supporting the carbon tax and insisting it is not driving up the cost of living. Now they are prancing around saying how they're doing this to make life more affordable for everyone. Yet there will be no such legislation under a KRudd government prior to the election because KRudd doesn't have the numbers to pass it. Milne won't support it, so that policy of KRudd's is dead before it reaches parliament anyway. Besides all that, how can KRudd and Bowen expect us to take them seriously about their prediction of the floating price in Europe in 2014? The EU just voted to remove more than 900 carbon trading permits and in doing so, will drive up the price. We may well end up with a floating price in the EU next year close to what we're being slugged for here under the carbon tax!

This is vintage Labor - can't do a damn thing right.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 9:52pm:

For years they've been passionately supporting the carbon tax and insisting it is not driving up the cost of living. Now they are prancing around saying how they're doing this to make life more affordable for everyone.

it's called moving with the times ... unlike you monkeys who want everything the way it was pre 2007, labor looks to the future.

It's quite amusing that one of Julia Gillards statements about the carbon tax is that it "gave businesses certainty".

Only for a short time later the party to dump it as a policy....

Turns out it did affect cost of living and we can stop boats.

Who'd have thought Abbott was right all along eh?

Rudd has a new policy which he isn't going to implement and doesn't have the numbers after the election to get it passed.

Australia - a joke one day and laughable the next.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 10:42pm:

It's quite amusing that one of Julia Gillards statements about the carbon tax is that it "gave businesses certainty". Only for a short time later the party to dump it as a policy.... Turns out it did affect cost of living and we can stop boats. Who'd have thought Abbott was right all along eh? Rudd has a new policy which he isn't going to implement and doesn't have the numbers after the election to get it passed. Australia - a joke one day and laughable the next.

did you get A+ in Crystal ball reading or Tea leaf reading at that fancy uni of yours?

Both the Greens and Coalition have said they will block his climate change policies in the Senate either now or after the election.

He does not have the ability.

It's a new gimmick and policy on the run.
Classic Rudd.

I'll leave you with your chip on your shoulder about your lack of a decent education.
Nothing needed from me on that but it does explain a lot of your need to attack people.

Maybe go to uni now? It's never too late yo learn John.
I realize we had very very different opportunities in life but there's not a lot I can do on that.

Don't let it get to you so much. Just my advice to you.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 10:48pm:

Both the Greens and Coalition have said they will block his climate change policies in the Senate either now or after the election. He does not have the ability. It's a new gimmick and policy on the run. Classic Rudd.

It's Rudd's fault that Tony is an obstructionist? Please. Do everyone a favour and come back with better reasoned comments.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 9:52pm:

Labor really has made a mess of this carbon tax announcement by KRudd. For years they've been passionately supporting the carbon tax and insisting it is not driving up the cost of living. Now they are prancing around saying how they're doing this to make life more affordable for everyone. Yet there will be no such legislation under a KRudd government prior to the election because KRudd doesn't have the numbers to pass it. Milne won't support it, so that policy of KRudd's is dead before it reaches parliament anyway. Besides all that, how can KRudd and Bowen expect us to take them seriously about their prediction of the floating price in Europe in 2014? The EU just voted to remove more than 900 carbon trading permits and in doing so, will drive up the price. We may well end up with a floating price in the EU next year close to what we're being slugged for here under the carbon tax! This is vintage Labor - can't do a damn thing right.

the carbon 'market' is artificial.
noone 'wants' to buy carbon at any price, there is essentially no volume going through.
I know how markets work. This is bogus.

Abbott has set his stand out.

He is not going to support an ETS.

How about concentrating on why the Greens won't support it?

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 10:48pm:

Both the Greens and Coalition have said they will block his climate change policies in the Senate either now or after the election. He does not have the ability. It's a new gimmick and policy on the run. Classic Rudd.

Rubbish, once Abbott loses the election he's gone, Turnbull will support the ETS.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 10:51pm:

I'll leave you with your chip on your shoulder about your lack of a decent education. Nothing needed from me on that but it does explain a lot of your need to attack people. Maybe go to uni now? It's never too late yo learn John. I realize we had very very different opportunities in life but there's not a lot I can do on that. Don't let it get to you so much. Just my advice to you.

you can stick your advise where the sun don't shine, I get better advice from a kids stuffed bear

and don't worry yourself about me, the day I let something you say worry me will be the day Elton John becomes pope ...

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 10:55pm:

Abbott has set his stand out. He is not going to support an ETS. How about concentrating on why the Greens won't support it?

Greens are irrelevant. So you're telling me, that Tony has set his stand out, and is now back on the Carbon Tax wagon?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12PN66IBoPs

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 9:52pm:

Labor really has made a mess of this carbon tax announcement by KRudd. For years they've been passionately supporting the carbon tax and insisting it is not driving up the cost of living. Now they are prancing around saying how they're doing this to make life more affordable for everyone. Yet there will be no such legislation under a KRudd government prior to the election because KRudd doesn't have the numbers to pass it. Milne won't support it, so that policy of KRudd's is dead before it reaches parliament anyway. Besides all that, how can KRudd and Bowen expect us to take them seriously about their prediction of the floating price in Europe in 2014? The EU just voted to remove more than 900 carbon trading permits and in doing so, will drive up the price. We may well end up with a floating price in the EU next year close to what we're being slugged for here under the carbon tax! This is vintage Labor - can't do a damn thing right.

Why do Labor need the Greens to pass the legislation?
Won't the Liberals support it?

For years they've been passionately calling the price on carbon a "tax"  and insisting it is driving up the cost of living, putting a wrecking ball through the economy, wiping Whyalla off the map and making legs of lams cost $100.

Are you say that if they were given the chance, the would vote to keep this "tax" that Tony has been working so hard with his Bogan Slogans to get rid of?!?!?!

You really don't think much of the Liberal Party do you!  Do you really think that they are such hypocritical scum?

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 10:55pm:

Abbott has set his stand out. He is not going to support an ETS. How about concentrating on why the Greens won't support it?

We already have an ETS.

Are you saying that Tony would vote to keep the set price period in place for one more year?

Why would he do that?

Are you calling Tony a hypocrite?

Tony said the carbon price would wipe Whyalla off the map
Tony said it would be a wrecking ball through the economy
Tony said legs of lamb would cost $100.

Now you are telling us that Tony would vote to keep this evil "tax"

Are you calling Tony a liar?

rabbitoh07 wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 11:21pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 10:55pm: Abbott has set his stand out. He is not going to support an ETS. How about concentrating on why the Greens won't support it? We already have an ETS. Are you saying that Tony would vote to keep the set price period in place for one more year? Why would he do that? Are you calling Tony a hypocrite? Tony said the carbon price would wipe Whyalla off the map Tony said it would be a wrecking ball through the economy Tony said legs of lamb would cost $100. Now you are telling us that Tony would vote to keep this evil "tax" Are you calling Tony a liar?

Never! Tony only ever tells the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12PN66IBoPs

Watch him repeat these sentiments now ;)  That's what obstructionist Tony does. Simply go back and forth.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 11:22pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 11:21pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 10:55pm: Abbott has set his stand out. He is not going to support an ETS. How about concentrating on why the Greens won't support it? We already have an ETS. Are you saying that Tony would vote to keep the set price period in place for one more year? Why would he do that? Are you calling Tony a hypocrite? Tony said the carbon price would wipe Whyalla off the map Tony said it would be a wrecking ball through the economy Tony said legs of lamb would cost $100. Now you are telling us that Tony would vote to keep this evil "tax" Are you calling Tony a liar? Never! Tony only ever tells the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12PN66IBoPs Watch him repeat these sentiments now ;)  That's what obstructionist Tony does. Simply go back and forth.

The truth is an "invisible substance"

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 11:09pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 10:55pm: Abbott has set his stand out. He is not going to support an ETS. How about concentrating on why the Greens won't support it? Greens are irrelevant. So you're telling me, that Tony has set his stand out, and is now back on the Carbon Tax wagon? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12PN66IBoPs

I think you'll find when it comes to getting things through the Senate the ALP is stuffed without Greens support.

In my book that kinda passes the relevance test don't you think?

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 11:42pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 11:09pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 10:55pm: Abbott has set his stand out. He is not going to support an ETS. How about concentrating on why the Greens won't support it? Greens are irrelevant. So you're telling me, that Tony has set his stand out, and is now back on the Carbon Tax wagon? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12PN66IBoPs I think you'll find when it comes to getting things through the Senate the ALP is stuffed without Greens support. In my book that kinda passes the relevance test don't you think?

;D and if the Libs win, what'll happen? The Greens will support them?
I think you are either very clueless...or.... clueless.

fact remains. Will Tony vote for the Carbon Tax?

He won't obviously.

But The Greens are not irrelevant at all right now.

You might be right for 5-6 years time but right now they are relevant and they've already said they'll shoot down Rudds plan and that he never consulted them on it.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 11:59pm:

He won't obviously. But The Greens are not irrelevant at all right now. You might be right for 5-6 years time but right now they are relevant and they've already said they'll shoot down Rudds plan and that he never consulted them on it.

Who cares??? The coalition will have to either vote for it, or vote for the carbon tax!!  The Greens will be irrelevant, or the Coalition hypocrites. Take your pick.

There isn't a vote until after the election.

1) the most likely result is Tony Abbott is PM so there will be no vote.
2) if Rudd has won, then Abbott is gone.

So it's kinda not relevant right now,

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 18^th, 2013 at 12:08am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 11:59pm: He won't obviously. But The Greens are not irrelevant at all right now. You might be right for 5-6 years time but right now they are relevant and they've already said they'll shoot down Rudds plan and that he never consulted them on it. Who cares??? The coalition will have to either vote for it, or vote for the carbon tax!!  The Greens will be irrelevant, or the Coalition hypocrites. Take your pick.

Mr Abbott gone, the coalition can change position without hypocrisy. A new leader could outflank Labor quite easily.

The other scenario, if Mr Abbott wins, will Labor vote with him to scrap the carbon tax or look hypocritical?

Labor is currently pushing to weaken action on dangerous climate change, and so is the coalition.

Maqqa wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 7:51pm:

Given that Rudd have (sic) now moved to an ETS this means the ALP is free to vote with the LIBs to scrap the carbon tax after the election

And if the Government is re-elected - should we expect the LibNats to vote with them in cutting short the interim fixed price ( ... or "carbon tax", as they call it) - rendering the Green's vote obsolete ?


... after ALL, abolishing the "carbon tax" is pretty much all they've been BANGING on about in their campaign for election to government

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 18^th, 2013 at 12:35am:

There isn't a vote until after the election. 1) the most likely result is Tony Abbott is PM so there will be no vote. 2) if Rudd has won, then Abbott is gone. So it's kinda not relevant right now,

And if Abbott is gone Turnbull will support the ETS. Do you see where you were wrong yet?

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 11:42pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 11:09pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 10:55pm: Abbott has set his stand out. He is not going to support an ETS. How about concentrating on why the Greens won't support it? Greens are irrelevant. So you're telling me, that Tony has set his stand out, and is now back on the Carbon Tax wagon? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12PN66IBoPs I think you'll find when it comes to getting things through the Senate the ALP is stuffed without Greens support. In my book that kinda passes the relevance test don't you think?

I think you will find that when it comes to getting things through the Senate the ALP will pass any thing that has Coalition support.

Don't you understand how our parliament works?

In my book, you really just passed the stupid test, don't you think?

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 17^th, 2013 at 11:59pm:

He won't obviously. But The Greens are not irrelevant at all right now. You might be right for 5-6 years time but right now they are relevant and they've already said they'll shoot down Rudds plan and that he never consulted them on it.

If you say tony won't vote for a "carbon tax" - then why on earth would he vote against a Government motion to change the fixed price period?

Do you have any idea how Parliament works?

Tell us what you don't understand and I will explain it for you.

Moron.

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 18^th, 2013 at 8:46am:

Maqqa wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 7:51pm: Given that Rudd have (sic) now moved to an ETS this means the ALP is free to vote with the LIBs to scrap the carbon tax after the election And if the Government is re-elected - should we expect the LibNats to vote with them in cutting short the interim fixed price ( ... or "carbon tax", as they call it) - rendering the Green's vote obsolete ? ... after ALL, abolishing the "carbon tax" is pretty much all they've been BANGING on about in their campaign for election to government

That's a big IF

The LIBs will block - because it's another carbon tax

The Greens will block - because it does not do enough as a fixed price

Labor is trying to lie to voters saying the LIBs and Greens have the same reasons

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 18^th, 2013 at 12:35am:

There isn't a vote until after the election. 1) the most likely result is Tony Abbott is PM so there will be no vote. 2) if Rudd has won, then Abbott is gone. So it's kinda not relevant right now,

http://www.phrases.org.uk/images/pigs-might-fly.jpg

Maqqa wrote on Jul 20^th, 2013 at 9:48am:

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 18th, 2013 at 8:46am: Maqqa wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 7:51pm: Given that Rudd have (sic) now moved to an ETS this means the ALP is free to vote with the LIBs to scrap the carbon tax after the election And if the Government is re-elected - should we expect the LibNats to vote with them in cutting short the interim fixed price ( ... or "carbon tax", as they call it) - rendering the Green's vote obsolete ? ... after ALL, abolishing the "carbon tax" is pretty much all they've been BANGING on about in their campaign for election to government That's a big IF The LIBs will block - because it's another carbon tax The Greens will block - because it does not do enough as a fixed price Labor is trying to lie to voters saying the LIBs and Greens have the same reasons

Wow!!  You really hate the LIBS!!!

Do you really think that they are so shallow and hypocritical - that they would whinge and lie and carry on about how the "carbon tax" is putting a "wrecking ball through the economy" - yet when given the chance to drastically reduce the carbon price, they would vote against it?

Do you really the the lIbs are scum like this?  Or are you just a bit stupid?