ALP eyes youth dole boot camps

Date
    July 28, 2013



Young job seekers would be forced into tough army-style boot camps in order to qualify for the dole, under an election policy being considered by the Rudd government.      :-?

In a leaked submission put to the Labor government's powerful Expenditure Review Committee by ministers Bill Shorten and Kate Ellis in May, a Youth Start Boot Camp was tabled as a future election policy.

Senior government sources said that the army-style camps, which are designed to impose strict disciplinary regimes, remain on the table as an election policy for Prime Minister Kevin Rudd.

The idea was framed as a possible vote winner for the government and was slated to be announced before August 15, if accepted.


Fairfax Media has an outline of the written submission, which was discussed during a meeting of then Gillard government ministers putting up election campaign strategy proposals to the committee.

Asked how far the proposal had progressed and if it was still under consideration, Mr Rudd's office would not comment.      :(

A spokeswoman for the Prime Minister said: ''The government does not publicly discuss the submissions that come before the Expenditure Review Committee of cabinet.''

Mr Shorten, who is now Education Minister, and Ms Ellis, who remains Workplace Participation Minister, also declined to comment.

But another senior government source insisted the submission was still alive.

''Whatever the official word, this has not been taken off the table,'' they said. ''Not everything has been thrown out with the change of leadership.''

The proposal calls for $70 million over four years to be reallocated from Jobs Services Australia providers into other programs to ''assist young job seekers and provide campaigning opportunities''.

Early school leavers aged between 15 and 21 years are the target of the proposed initiative.

There are a wide variety of wilderness and adventure boot camps being used across Australia, ranging from those teaching work-ready skills like discipline, presentation and attitude to those targeting young repeat offenders.

The Queensland government is currently giving a trial to an early-intervention youth boot camp that will focus on young people at risk of long-term offending.

Boystown, a program operating in Queensland, NSW and South Australia, mixes adventure-based learning, sport and outdoor activities with employment programs to help young men and women aged 15 to 25.

A study by Monash University found 61 per cent of participants in Boystown programs found full-time employment and nearly 12 per cent found part-time or casual work.

The Brahminy Foundation's Wilderness Camp, 200 kilometres from Darwin, is for some of society's most troubled and unemployable youths.

Founder Allan Brahminy says his camps are tough and intense but he stresses there is a therapeutic element to the programs, which include long stays of up to a year and 21-day wilderness hikes including five days' kayaking and more than 100 kilometres of walking in the NT wilderness.

In the ministerial submission, the ministers highlighted in bold their proposal for a Youth Start Boot Camp and explained that: ''Unemployed young people will participate in an army boot camp and pre-employment training.''

Other options mooted were community work experience for unemployed youth, first job programs for youth from disadvantaged backgrounds, and a combination of all of the measures, including rigorous boot camps.

The submission complains about poor recognition for the existing program that funds providers to deliver targeted assistance in the form of structured activities of up to 25 hours a week to build life, study and employment skills.

And there is ''scant data on delivery rate and outcomes''.

Boot camps were proposed as a better option.

''Youth unemployment is a growing problem that we need to address,'' the submission reads.

''There are opportunities to partner with business, particularly big business and to end intergenerational unemployment for young people.''

With JULIE POWER

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/alp-eyes-youth-dole-boot-camps-20130727-2qrmk.html#ixzz2aHn3L7d7

The ALP and the Coalition need a boot camp for themselves, they're both out of control.

Punish the youth, they're all lazy.....nothing to do with the fact that there is NO work.

Little boot camps to con the youngsters into signing for the big boot camp.

Not acceptable in any way, shape or form, sorry.

Maybe you can sell the policy to Abbott, it's more his style.

Why am I not surprised Shorten's grubby fingerprints are all over this?

This 'punish the unemployed' mentality must be stamped out at all costs.

Rudd will have them goosestepping around in their little black uniforms in no time.

Old Ruddy has no shame, there isn't a single Labor party value he won't trash if there is a vote in it ... what an appalling little piece of shite he is.  ;D

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:18am:

The ALP and the Coalition need a boot camp for themselves, they're both out of control. Punish the youth, they're all lazy.....nothing to do with the fact that there is NO work. Little boot camps to con the youngsters into signing for the big boot camp.

shhhhh pansi someone from the left tells us this govt has created 4 million jobs..

well THEY believe it?.

can you see any govt making this generation DO ANYTHING?...hilarious.

Kat wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:18am:

Not acceptable in any way, shape or form, sorry. Maybe you can sell the policy to Abbott, it's more his style. Why am I not surprised Shorten's grubby fingerprints are all over this? This 'punish the unemployed' mentality must be stamped out at all costs.

Is the government saying that the job  agencies are so hopeless that they have to run boot camps to get people into work?

I would never allow my 15 or 16 year old to go into the bush with these people, not after what we know happens in the ADF and the churches. Parents will have to start hiding their children in the attic to keep them safe.

Quote:

The Brahminy Foundation's Wilderness Camp, 200 kilometres from Darwin, is for some of society's most troubled and unemployable youths.

Sounds like a POW camp, or Deep-South 'road-gang'-style incarceration to me.

Is this the first step towards locking our unemployed up for being unemployed?

If so, God help this country, because I surely will not.

Innocent bystander wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:26am:

Old Ruddy has no shame, there isn't a single Labor party value he won't trash if there is a vote in it ... what an appalling little piece of shite he is.  ;D

this is what I just dont get.... he will be a little dictator if he gets back in..

My WAY or the HIGHWAY..

havent we been there?

and the left think its great that he is breaking every labor rule in the book..

Kat wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:29am:

Quote: The Brahminy Foundation's Wilderness Camp, 200 kilometres from Darwin, is for some of society's most troubled and unemployable youths. Sounds like a POW camp, or Deep-South 'road-gang'-style incarceration to me. Is this the first step towards locking our unemployed up for being unemployed? If so, God help this country, because I surely will not.

for the troubled and  delinquent youth we have..

I have no problems  with it as long as its done with respect and kindness..  some of our kids have never been shown either

they learn a massive amount in some of these places and come out decent citizens instead of jailbait.... and tragically for some its the on ly love they know.

"Repeat offenders"? "Offending"? WTF?

SOB

http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

cods wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:26am:

[quote author=pansi1951 link=1374962909/1#1 date=1374963510] The ALP and the Coalition need a boot camp for themselves, they're both out of control. Punish the youth, they're all lazy.....nothing to do with the fact that there is NO work. Little boot camps to con the youngsters into signing for the big boot camp.

shhhhh pansi someone from the left tells us this govt has created 4 million jobs..

well THEY believe it?.

can you see any govt making this generation DO ANYTHING?...hilarious.


You do realise the previous generation said the same thing about your generation cods.

I wouldn't speak too ill of them because it is these same people who will be changing your diapers in the future. You wouldn't want them to leave you messy for too long, would you?

Is it the government wrecking manufacturing or the "lazy" kids?.....you can't have it both ways.

This generation is not lazy, they work damn hard, when they get the opportunity.

It's the economy.........

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:34am:

cods wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:26am: [quote author=pansi1951 link=1374962909/1#1 date=1374963510] The ALP and the Coalition need a boot camp for themselves, they're both out of control. Punish the youth, they're all lazy.....nothing to do with the fact that there is NO work. Little boot camps to con the youngsters into signing for the big boot camp. shhhhh pansi someone from the left tells us this govt has created 4 million jobs.. well THEY believe it?. can you see any govt making this generation DO ANYTHING?...hilarious. You do realise the previous generation said the same thing about your generation cods. I wouldn't speak too ill of them because it is these same people who will be changing your diapers in the future. You wouldn't want them to leave you messy for too long, would you? Is it the government wrecking manufacturing or the "lazy" kids?.....you can't have it both ways. This generation is not lazy, they work damn hard, when they get the opportunity. It's the economy.........

onai you are probably of a different generation to me.. but believe me.. we all had jobs.. good and bad.. no such thing as dole in my day. we were never called lazy cant get out of bed..

this generation is lazy pansi.. I remember someone suggesting the get on a BUS to go to work.. shock waves went through the place.

they do not work hard pansi.. they have far too many machines to do what MY GENERATION DID BY HAND AND BACK..

sorry matey...but that is a fact..men dont dig roads today machines do..

its the same with accounting.. its done my machine..

I would not go down a mine if you paid me too...and I admire those that do...but even that is becoming a thing of the past its all opencut now...

look around pansi things have changed an awful lot.

honest to god stop finding excuses for everything.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:33am:

"Repeat offenders"? "Offending"? WTF? SOB http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

It's just as I've been saying...

These dogs regard not having a job as a crime, and it's
fairly obvious that the long-term intent is to incarcerate
anyone who's out of work for longer than some arbitrarily-
set time limit.

Anything to avoid doing the right thing by the
unemployed.

And it plays right into the foul arms of those who espouse
the 'dole-bludger' mentality.

Taking money off working people without even bothering to try and find a job is a crime.

They need to stop giving them money and switch to food stamps and vouchers.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:48am:

Taking money off working people without even bothering to try and find a job is a crime. They need to stop giving them money and switch to food stamps and vouchers.

And you need a good dose of reality.

They need to do two things.  One is to make more jobs.  The other is to give the unemployed, a $50 a week increase.      :(      

wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:55am:

They need to do two things.  One is to make more jobs.  The other is to give the unemployed, a $50 a week increase.      :(

mmmmmmm more jobs.... and your suggestions ARE?

Well for one, stop sacking public servants.     :)

Kat wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:53am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:48am: Taking money off working people without even bothering to try and find a job is a crime. They need to stop giving them money and switch to food stamps and vouchers. And you need a good dose of reality.

why???..

if they spend it on smokes or grog...and then queue up at the soup kitchen...it looks good for the likes of crook and yourself..

give them another $50 a week $100 a fortnight and we know where most of that will go.

I have known unemployed in the past and not one of them lived on the streets they all lived in a nice comfy warm home.with food on the table...I dont really see why they should get more.

Business needs to take responsibility too.

Their policy of cutting jobs, wages and conditions, to protect CEO
bonuses and dividends to parasi...oops, shareholders is a major
cause of the unemployment problem.

As is their refusal to provide on-the-job training for employees.

cods wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 9:04am:

give them another $50 a week $100 a fortnight and we know where most of that will go.

Yeah - rent

SOB

http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:58am:

Well for one, stop sacking public servants.     :)

what a joke... so they sit there shuffling paper and thats ok...if you knew how many are on STRESS LEAVE .. some almost permanently...

how many go homes sick at least once a week...

you wouldnt be so smug.

you obviously dont understand who pays public servants

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 9:06am:

cods wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 9:04am: give them another $50 a week $100 a fortnight and we know where most of that will go. Yeah - rent SOB http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

the ones I kn ew lived at home with mum and dad./. and so do most of these..

if they pay rent then they must be able to afford it as rent also comes with a BOND.

wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:58am:

Well for one, stop sacking public servants.     :)

and buy more clocks so they'll have something to do during the day.

See, Rudd and his advisers know if they are to win the election they have to move to the right. It's finally dawned on them that the populace is more conservative than it is radical.

cods wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 9:04am:

Kat wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:53am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:48am: Taking money off working people without even bothering to try and find a job is a crime. They need to stop giving them money and switch to food stamps and vouchers. And you need a good dose of reality. why???.. if they spend it on smokes or grog...and then queue up at the soup kitchen...it looks good for the likes of crook and yourself.. give them another $50 a week $100 a fortnight and we know where most of that will go. I have known unemployed in the past and not one of them lived on the streets they all lived in a nice comfy warm home.with food on the table...I dont really see why they should get more.

And there goes your credibility, right there. The first sentence is loaded with bias, ignorance and stereotyping. No real need to read further.

The point being that you have no idea where it might go, and no right to decide where it might go.

And if you 'don't really see why they should get more' then you must be blind.

I don't think many unemployed would be living, a very comfortable life style.  Not on the measly money, that they have to survive on.      :( 

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 9:08am:

wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:58am: Well for one, stop sacking public servants.     :) and buy more clocks so they'll have something to do during the day.

I live in a public service town and my daughters work for the public service and both son in laws are coppers... they dont consider they are public servants but I do....

but the tales they tell would curl crooks hair..

it would fill too many pages to tell anyone what we put up with they are unsackable..

the nongs one of my daughters has to suffer...only puts into perspective.. just what all govt depts have to put up with...IDIOTS and USERS..people who flaunt the system for alls its worth..it goes on day in day out..

for crook to say stop sacking them... he knows full well they are NOT SACKED they are paid to leave... its only our money isnt it?

wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 9:11am:

I don't think many unemployed would be living, a very comfortable life style.  Not on the measly money, that they have to survive on.      :(

These idiots seem to think so...  >:( >:( >:(

Yes well said Kat, they do dont they?.  If they think it is so good, mabe they should try it for a while, and see what it is like.     >:(

Kat wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 9:05am:

Business needs to take responsibility too. Their policy of cutting jobs, wages and conditions, to protect CEO bonuses and dividends to parasi...oops, shareholders is a major cause of the unemployment problem. As is their refusal to provide on-the-job training for employees.

you hit the nail right on the head

how many companies or government departments now put on apprentices

wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 9:11am:

I don't think many unemployed would be living, a very comfortable life style.  Not on the measly money, that they have to survive on.      :(

Please tell me in however many words you like what they do for this money?

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 10:27am:

wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 9:11am: I don't think many unemployed would be living, a very comfortable life style.  Not on the measly money, that they have to survive on.      :(  Please tell me in however many words you like what they do for this money?

Perhaps amnesty international can explain to you why such things as safety nets exist.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 10:29am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 10:27am: wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 9:11am: I don't think many unemployed would be living, a very comfortable life style.  Not on the measly money, that they have to survive on.      :(  Please tell me in however many words you like what they do for this money? Perhaps amnesty international can explain to you why such things as safety nets exist.

You'd think an 'economist', of all people, would understand how
essential a pool of available workers is to an economy.

Not this one, apparently...  >:(

It is good to have a pool of available workers.

It isn't as good to have a pool of oxygen stealers who haven't worked a day in decades and spent my money on beer.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 10:29am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 10:27am: wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 9:11am: I don't think many unemployed would be living, a very comfortable life style.  Not on the measly money, that they have to survive on.      :(  Please tell me in however many words you like what they do for this money? Perhaps amnesty international can explain to you why such things as safety nets exist.

Interesting you couldn't shoot holes in Amnesty's labeling of Australia as "shameful" though?

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 10:42am:

It is good to have a pool of available workers. It isn't as good to have a pool of oxygen stealers who haven't worked a day in decades and spent my money on beer.

And as long as you persist in that erroneous misconception, you'll have no credibility.

Your argument is based on a flawed premise.

They do what they have to do.  Look for jobs, and try survive till they can get work.     :(

Kat wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 10:44am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 10:42am: It is good to have a pool of available workers. It isn't as good to have a pool of oxygen stealers who haven't worked a day in decades and spent my money on beer. And as long as you persist in that erroneous misconception, you'll have no credibility.

Credibility with who?

I just received a high mark on my performance review and was labelled "exceptional" in my achievement of corporate objectives.
I'll take that credibility over the thoughts of the oddballs on here.

I am your better.

wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 10:44am:

They do what they have to do.  Look for jobs, and try survive till they can get work.     :(

Don't forget the WfD rubbish, and the fact that many also do volunteer work.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 10:46am:

Kat wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 10:44am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 10:42am: It is good to have a pool of available workers. It isn't as good to have a pool of oxygen stealers who haven't worked a day in decades and spent my money on beer. And as long as you persist in that erroneous misconception, you'll have no credibility. Credibility with who? I just received a high mark on my performance review and was labelled "exceptional" in my achievement of corporate objectives. I'll take that credibility over the thoughts of the oddballs on here. I am your better.

Mate, you will never be my better, except in your own estimation.

Get used to it.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 10:46am:

Kat wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 10:44am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 10:42am: It is good to have a pool of available workers. It isn't as good to have a pool of oxygen stealers who haven't worked a day in decades and spent my money on beer. And as long as you persist in that erroneous misconception, you'll have no credibility. Credibility with who? I just received a high mark on my performance review and was labelled "exceptional" in my achievement of corporate objectives. I'll take that credibility over the thoughts of the oddballs on here. I am your better.

Yeah better @ being a dill, a traitor, and a troll

SOB

http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

Oh yes, some of them do work for the dole rubbish, and other go nowhere useless programs.      :( 

... and the "race to the bottom" HOTS UP




How do these INCREDIBLY expensive gimmicks create full-time, part-time or casual PAYING JOBS - where ( ... in a tacit admission that) "work for the dole" HASN'T ?

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:28am:

Kat wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:18am: Not acceptable in any way, shape or form, sorry. Maybe you can sell the policy to Abbott, it's more his style. Why am I not surprised Shorten's grubby fingerprints are all over this? This 'punish the unemployed' mentality must be stamped out at all costs. Is the government saying that the job  agencies are so hopeless that they have to run boot camps to get people into work? I would never allow my 15 or 16 year old to go into the bush with these people, not after what we know happens in the ADF and the churches. Parents will have to start hiding their children in the attic to keep them safe.

what on earth have these job networks been doing that costs tax payers 4 billion a year to run ??

no wonder Therese Rein has made a fortune out of the unemployed. 210 billions worth according to the BRW :(

There's lots of money in unemployed people :(

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 10:46am:

Kat wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 10:44am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 10:42am: It is good to have a pool of available workers. It isn't as good to have a pool of oxygen stealers who haven't worked a day in decades and spent my money on beer. And as long as you persist in that erroneous misconception, you'll have no credibility. Credibility with who? I just received a high mark on my performance review and was labelled "exceptional" in my achievement of corporate objectives. I'll take that credibility over the thoughts of the oddballs on here. I am your better.

I know a dude who was a financial controller of a company who was on a five figure salary plus company car. They sent a couple of indian dudes from india to find out what he was doing and 2 weeks after that he got the push and his job is now being done in India for $7000 a year ;)

Nobody is indispensable hicks ;)

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 10:43am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 10:29am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 10:27am: wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 9:11am: I don't think many unemployed would be living, a very comfortable life style.  Not on the measly money, that they have to survive on.      :(  Please tell me in however many words you like what they do for this money? Perhaps amnesty international can explain to you why such things as safety nets exist. Interesting you couldn't shoot holes in Amnesty's labeling of Australia as "shameful" though?

... and Andrei is a RENOWNED supporter of The United Nations Convention on the Status of Refugees - not to mention Amnesty International

IN FACT, he wears an Amnesty lapel pin - just like ( ... former Howard Government Immigration Minister)  Phillip Ruddock's



http://images.theage.com.au/2011/09/08/2612289/art-353-letch-200x0.jpg

cods wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:42am:

no such thing as dole in my day.

... and what WAS "your day" ?



Quote:

There was a major extension of the social security system in 1945 with the introduction of Commonwealth Unemployment Benefit and Sickness Benefit in the form of flat-rate payments financed from general revenue and subject to an income test. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/94713ad445ff1425ca25682000192af2/8e72c4526a94aaedca2569de00296978!OpenDocument

Kat wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 9:10am:

cods wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 9:04am: Kat wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:53am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:48am: Taking money off working people without even bothering to try and find a job is a crime. They need to stop giving them money and switch to food stamps and vouchers. And you need a good dose of reality. why???.. if they spend it on smokes or grog...and then queue up at the soup kitchen...it looks good for the likes of crook and yourself.. give them another $50 a week $100 a fortnight and we know where most of that will go. I have known unemployed in the past and not one of them lived on the streets they all lived in a nice comfy warm home.with food on the table...I dont really see why they should get more. And there goes your credibility, right there. The first sentence is loaded with bias, ignorance and stereotyping. No real need to read further. The point being that you have no idea where it might go, and no right to decide where it might go. And if you 'don't really see why they should get more' then you must be blind.

ANY MORE THAN YOU HAVE THEY ARE ALL HARD DONE BY...


as for not knowing anything... in Canberra some wash wind=screens at the traffic lights thee are obviously unemployed rough looking and untidy.. ALL SMOKING....yes I always get mine cleaned..I do like to help..

DONT FORGET IF i DONT KNOW WHERE THE MONEY GOES NEITHER DO YOU OR CROOK...


FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN.. AN AWFUL LOT ARE COVERED IN TATTOOS..OR HAVE BODY PIERCING .. all of which turns many off employing them..


and for your information I not judging all the same.... as I said before I have known some and I was talking from that experience.

Absolutely.

Leave cods alone. She's from England.

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 11:52am:

cods wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:42am: no such thing as dole in my day. ... and what WAS "your day" ? NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. Quote: There was a major extension of the social security system in 1945 with the introduction of Commonwealth Unemployment Benefit and Sickness Benefit in the form of flat-rate payments financed from general revenue and subject to an income test. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/94713ad445ff1425ca25682000192af2/8e72c4526a94aaedca2569de00296978!OpenDocument

well I am talking about ENGLAND..they still had food coupons in 1945

they were getting over a massive WAR.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 12:15pm:

Absolutely. Leave cods alone. She's from England.

they wont leave me alone andrei.. I am easy pickings for the bully boys..

one of the things that always amazes me about this country is the fact they do HAVE IT REALLY GOOD.. when I left England they had 2 weeks holidays per annum..here it was 3/4 weeks..plus untold public holidays even Union days off..

and still it isnt enough..

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 11:28am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 10:46am: Kat wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 10:44am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 10:42am: It is good to have a pool of available workers. It isn't as good to have a pool of oxygen stealers who haven't worked a day in decades and spent my money on beer. And as long as you persist in that erroneous misconception, you'll have no credibility. Credibility with who? I just received a high mark on my performance review and was labelled "exceptional" in my achievement of corporate objectives. I'll take that credibility over the thoughts of the oddballs on here. I am your better. I know a dude who was a financial controller of a company who was on a five figure salary plus company car. They sent a couple of indian dudes from india to find out what he was doing and 2 weeks after that he got the push and his job is now being done in India for $7000 a year ;) Nobody is indispensable hicks ;)

dont forget nails.. they dont pay taxes in Australia..or spend the $7000 in AUstralia.. that is whats harming this country.

for many unemployed its not about a comfortable lifestyle, its about avoiding work at all cost. Un employment breeds crime, so what we need to start doing is to stop handing ourt money for nothing. Work for the dole must happen, in all cases. We may be surprised how many people actually find productive work for themselves when faced with the fact they are going to have to work anyway. The indigenous unemployment rate is a disgrace at 16 percent. We have too many in this country sitting on their arses with their hands out, it has to stop.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 10:42am:

It is good to have a pool of available workers. It isn't as good to have a pool of oxygen stealers who haven't worked a day in decades and spent my money on beer.

.




dickhead you have rip off the Australia taxpayers when you work here so how come the unemployed people spent your money on beer

cods wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 12:15pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 11:52am: cods wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:42am: no such thing as dole in my day. ... and what WAS "your day" ? NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. Quote: There was a major extension of the social security system in 1945 with the introduction of Commonwealth Unemployment Benefit and Sickness Benefit in the form of flat-rate payments financed from general revenue and subject to an income test. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/94713ad445ff1425ca25682000192af2/8e72c4526a94aaedca2569de00296978!OpenDocument well I am talking about ENGLAND..they still had food coupons in 1945 they were getting over a massive WAR.

In case you missed a BBC NEWSREEL, or two, so was Australia

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17073472

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 12:34pm:

cods wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 12:15pm: buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 11:52am: cods wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:42am: no such thing as dole in my day. ... and what WAS "your day" ? NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. Quote: There was a major extension of the social security system in 1945 with the introduction of Commonwealth Unemployment Benefit and Sickness Benefit in the form of flat-rate payments financed from general revenue and subject to an income test. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/94713ad445ff1425ca25682000192af2/8e72c4526a94aaedca2569de00296978!OpenDocument well I am talking about ENGLAND..they still had food coupons in 1945 they were getting over a massive WAR. In case you missed a BBC NEWSREEL, or two, so was Australia http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17073472

what the hell are you raving about?..

was Australia flattened???? like England was?..


I am not saying it wasnt tough here...you are so rude I really cant be bothered.

dont panic Mr Mannering.

Don't be such an ignorant fool Buzz.

You cannot compare the impact of WW2 on Australia compared to how we suffered through consistent bombing campaigns of 1940-44.
Whilst Australia like many suffered to so extent, it pales in comparison to Europe and Great Britain.

cods wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 12:13pm:

Kat wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 9:10am: cods wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 9:04am: Kat wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:53am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:48am: Taking money off working people without even bothering to try and find a job is a crime. They need to stop giving them money and switch to food stamps and vouchers. And you need a good dose of reality. why???.. if they spend it on smokes or grog...and then queue up at the soup kitchen...it looks good for the likes of crook and yourself.. give them another $50 a week $100 a fortnight and we know where most of that will go. I have known unemployed in the past and not one of them lived on the streets they all lived in a nice comfy warm home.with food on the table...I dont really see why they should get more. And there goes your credibility, right there. The first sentence is loaded with bias, ignorance and stereotyping. No real need to read further. The point being that you have no idea where it might go, and no right to decide where it might go. And if you 'don't really see why they should get more' then you must be blind. ANY MORE THAN YOU HAVE THEY ARE ALL HARD DONE BY... as for not knowing anything... in Canberra some wash wind=screens at the traffic lights thee are obviously unemployed rough looking and untidy.. ALL SMOKING....yes I always get mine cleaned..I do like to help.. DONT FORGET IF i DONT KNOW WHERE THE MONEY GOES NEITHER DO YOU OR CROOK... FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN.. AN AWFUL LOT ARE COVERED IN TATTOOS..OR HAVE BODY PIERCING .. all of which turns many off employing them.. and for your information I not judging all the same.... as I said before I have known some and I was talking from that experience.

If you arent judging then why the comment about the smoking?

They can spend their money on whatever they want.

BTW that windshield gang is like the mafia. Nobody new can just go there and start washing windshields.

SOB

http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

ian wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 12:29pm:

for many unemployed its not about a comfortable lifestyle, its about avoiding work at all cost. Un employment breeds crime, so what we need to start doing is to stop handing ourt money for nothing. Work for the dole must happen, in all cases. We may be surprised how many people actually find productive work for themselves when faced with the fact they are going to have to work anyway. The indigenous unemployment rate is a disgrace at 16 percent. We have too many in this country sitting on their arses with their hands out, it has to stop.

Oh really? How would you know this? the lifestyle of not being able to afford rent you mean?

As for crime - well - you have a bunch of ppl in poverty and thats what happens.

SOB

http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 12:48pm:

You cannot compare the impact of WW2 on Australia compared to how we suffered through consistent bombing campaigns of 1940-44. Whilst Australia like many suffered to so extent, it pales in comparison to Europe and Great Britain.

OBVIOUSLY, "life in the colonies" was ( ... is ?) a component of little interest to the insular British education curriculum - "How We Won the War"


Australia bombed, strafed and shelled

http://www.awm.gov.au/exhibitions/underattack/images/maps/attacks.gif


A desperate air battle was fought over Darwin yesterday as the air war in Australia’s north flared to its greatest pitch of fury.
The Sun, 20 February 1942


On 19 February 1942 Japanese bombs fell on mainland Australia for the first time. The port and city of Darwin suffered two devastating attacks by over 188 Japanese aircraft that day.

Over the next twenty months northern Australia was to endure almost a hundred air raids, from Exmouth in the west to Townsville in the east. At the same time, Japanese submarines attacked merchant vessels off the coast of eastern Australia.

Reactions to these attacks varied across Australia. For those close to the areas under attack, the damage was obvious and the response immediate.

The population in southern Australia was shielded from the detail of the attacks by distance and wartime censorship. Nevertheless, strict air raid precautions were implemented and the civilian population prepared to face the national emergency.

On the night of 31 May – 1 June 1942 three Japanese midget submarines attacked Sydney Harbour. They were launched from a group of five larger submarines waiting off the Heads. All three midget submarines were lost, with two of them destroyed before they could fire their torpedoes. The third fired at but missed the USS Chicago, sinking HMAS Kuttabul, a coverted ferry, and killing 21 sleeping sailors aboard. Reactions by Sydney residents varied; a few made plans to flee the city, but many came to watch the recovery of the submarines.

A week after the midget submarine attack on Sydney Harbour, two of the larger submarines returned to bombard Sydney and Newcastle with their deck guns. One shelled Newcastle for twenty minutes until driven off by fire from coastal artillery defences. Another submarine fired ten rounds into eastern Sydney.

http://www.awm.gov.au/exhibitions/underattack/bombed/


During all of this, as in WW1, the Australian Defence Forces were in Europe- acting as cannon fodder - fighting "Britain's War"

A gesture, never reciprocated


But no-one EVER suffers as much as the English ( ... or as LOUDLY, at least)




Perhaps a visit to the Australian War Memorial might bring a little more RESPECT to the forefront - from the pair of you ?

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 10:42am:

It is good to have a pool of available workers. It isn't as good to have a pool of oxygen stealers who haven't worked a day in decades and spent my money on beer.

If people want to drink beer, that's their business. You have a wife and kids, you own a nice house and a fast car. The beer drinkers don't get that stuff, so I don't know why you're complaining. We don't live in a Third World country. Because our country is higher up on the economic hierarchy, we can afford to support beer drinkers, unlike countries in Africa. If we were suddenly thrown into the Dark Ages, that's when we would stop supporting beer drinkers.

Besides, it's not like you deserved all the money represented by your "gross income." A market driven system is not objective. They sell goods and services to the highest bidder. That means the person or company with the most money to offer seals the deal. If you have millions of dollars to spend, you have an advantage and probably a monopoly on the work force. In other words, the value of gross income is arbitrary, not objective and not proportional to the effort put in. You are not losing any more than you deserve to so-called "beer drinkers."

You don't really believe in the objectivity of the "invisible hand" do you? If not, why would you think you deserved all of your gross income and that something was being "stolen" from you?


cods wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 12:18pm:

one of the things that always amazes me about this country is the fact they do HAVE IT REALLY GOOD.. when I left England they had 2 weeks holidays per annum..here it was 3/4 weeks..plus untold public holidays even Union days off.. and still it isnt enough..

It's about keeping up with the Joneses. When you see your friends with smart-phones, you'll want one too. Nobody wants to be left behind. When others are having a great life, everybody wants a great life. It's a competition. You're competing with your friends and family. People complain when they feel they're missing out. They feel cheated. That's the psychology of this phenomenon. People compare themselves to others.

If people didn't have an opinion of what they might be missing, whether it's the unemployed who are struggling to pay rent or those that have six-figure incomes, they wouldn't be complaining.

People should stop having an opinion on what they deserve and get on with what they're supposed to be doing.

cods wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 12:20pm:

dont forget nails.. they dont pay taxes in Australia..or spend the $7000 in AUstralia.. that is whats harming this country.

Foreigners should be paying the same taxes we have, if not more. Just because you're not Australian, doesn't mean you should be exempt from our tax system. They should give them a tax file number immediately when they arrive here.

Foreign-owned companies should also be paying taxes, at least as much as locally owned ones -- if not more. You don't work, live or operate here for nothing. >:(

It may drive investment and capital away, but at least we'll own everything. We'll be self-sufficient.

................ and get rid of free trade, please. >:(

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 12:48pm:

Don't be such an ignorant fool Buzz. You cannot compare the impact of WW2 on Australia compared to how we suffered through consistent bombing campaigns of 1940-44. Whilst Australia like many suffered to so extent, it pales in comparison to Europe and Great Britain.

Yet, Great Britain has been able to maintain at least two aircraft carriers, meddle in world politics and maintain its military and political influence for decades.

Australia never wasted its energy on empire. Britain is just a tired old man who is still flexing his muscles, preparing and bracing himself to pick another fight. World powers exhaust themselves, trying to hold onto the status of alpha male.

I don't think the argument that European and Britain sustained heavy bombing is really relevant after seventy years. Just look at Japan and Germany. They were heavily bombed, but they rebuilt and have two of the world's biggest economies. They are both among the top 10.

BTW, what exactly do you mean by "we?" Aren't you Australian? You use "we" when talking about Americans and "we" when talking about the British. It's as if you don't even think of yourself as Australian and you have a problem with Australians putting beetroot in their burgers and sandwiches (like you said in one of the other threads). It's not like it's coriander or cilantro.

Kat wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:29am:

Quote: The Brahminy Foundation's Wilderness Camp, 200 kilometres from Darwin, is for some of society's most troubled and unemployable youths. Sounds like a POW camp, or Deep-South 'road-gang'-style incarceration to me. Is this the first step towards locking our unemployed up for being unemployed? If so, God help this country, because I surely will not.

so why do you want to vote labor then??  no matter how much you hate abbott, these kinds of Rudd policies are far right of the liberals.  If you are to be true to your convictions them you MUST vote Liberal.

How about compulsory National Service for everyone over 18 years old, but not employed?

We could put the conscripts to work, turning back the boats and all of our problems could be solved?

cods wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:42am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:34am: cods wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:26am: [quote author=pansi1951 link=1374962909/1#1 date=1374963510] The ALP and the Coalition need a boot camp for themselves, they're both out of control. Punish the youth, they're all lazy.....nothing to do with the fact that there is NO work. Little boot camps to con the youngsters into signing for the big boot camp. shhhhh pansi someone from the left tells us this govt has created 4 million jobs.. well THEY believe it?. can you see any govt making this generation DO ANYTHING?...hilarious. You do realise the previous generation said the same thing about your generation cods. I wouldn't speak too ill of them because it is these same people who will be changing your diapers in the future. You wouldn't want them to leave you messy for too long, would you? Is it the government wrecking manufacturing or the "lazy" kids?.....you can't have it both ways. This generation is not lazy, they work damn hard, when they get the opportunity. It's the economy......... onai you are probably of a different generation to me.. but believe me.. we all had jobs.. good and bad.. no such thing as dole in my day. we were never called lazy cant get out of bed.. this generation is lazy pansi.. I remember someone suggesting the get on a BUS to go to work.. shock waves went through the place. they do not work hard pansi.. they have far too many machines to do what MY GENERATION DID BY HAND AND BACK.. sorry matey...but that is a fact..men dont dig roads today machines do.. its the same with accounting.. its done my machine.. I would not go down a mine if you paid me too...and I admire those that do...but even that is becoming a thing of the past its all opencut now... look around pansi things have changed an awful lot. honest to god stop finding excuses for everything.

thats nonsense cods. The idea that 'the good old days' had full employment is as silly as it is provably wrong.  In fact, for most of the last 15 years we have had historically LOWER unemployment than most of the last century.  You seem to forget the 10%+ unemployment of the 70s and 80s, to 30%+unemployment of the 30s that was only ended by the major employer called WW2.  The 'good old days' never existed.  even the 1950s very low unemployment was a farce as it was only achieved by denying married women the right to work.

Kat wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 9:05am:

Business needs to take responsibility too. Their policy of cutting jobs, wages and conditions, to protect CEO bonuses and dividends to parasi...oops, shareholders is a major cause of the unemployment problem. As is their refusal to provide on-the-job training for employees.

cutting wages???  DOES NOT HAPPEN  or do you forget that wages are controlled by law?

Kat wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 9:10am:

cods wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 9:04am: Kat wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:53am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:48am: Taking money off working people without even bothering to try and find a job is a crime. They need to stop giving them money and switch to food stamps and vouchers. And you need a good dose of reality. why???.. if they spend it on smokes or grog...and then queue up at the soup kitchen...it looks good for the likes of crook and yourself.. give them another $50 a week $100 a fortnight and we know where most of that will go. I have known unemployed in the past and not one of them lived on the streets they all lived in a nice comfy warm home.with food on the table...I dont really see why they should get more. And there goes your credibility, right there. The first sentence is loaded with bias, ignorance and stereotyping. No real need to read further. The point being that you have no idea where it might go, and no right to decide where it might go. And if you 'don't really see why they should get more' then you must be blind.

why should the govt not have some right to dictate where at least part of the money goes??  the dole is not a RIGHT.  it is a privilege given by a country that can afford it and one that I strongly support.  That doesn't mean that there is no mutual obligation involved in this transaction.  the dole is given to support the basics of life while getting work and no more.

Mnemonic wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 2:30pm:

cods wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 12:20pm: dont forget nails.. they dont pay taxes in Australia..or spend the $7000 in AUstralia.. that is whats harming this country. Foreigners should be paying the same taxes we have, if not more. Just because you're not Australian, doesn't mean you should be exempt from our tax system. They should give them a tax file number immediately when they arrive here. Foreign-owned companies should also be paying taxes, at least as much as locally owned ones -- if not more. You don't work, live or operate here for nothing. >:( It may drive investment and capital away, but at least we'll own everything. We'll be self-sufficient. ................ and get rid of free trade, please. >:(

in general, if you work her you DO pay tax here.  also, if your company operates here you generally pay tax here.  There are exceptions of course but it is generally true.

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 2:16pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 12:48pm: You cannot compare the impact of WW2 on Australia compared to how we suffered through consistent bombing campaigns of 1940-44. Whilst Australia like many suffered to so extent, it pales in comparison to Europe and Great Britain. OBVIOUSLY, "life in the colonies" was ( ... is ?) a component of little interest to the insular British education curriculum - "How We Won the War" Australia bombed, strafed and shelled http://www.awm.gov.au/exhibitions/underattack/images/maps/attacks.gif A desperate air battle was fought over Darwin yesterday as the air war in Australia’s north flared to its greatest pitch of fury. The Sun, 20 February 1942 On 19 February 1942 Japanese bombs fell on mainland Australia for the first time. The port and city of Darwin suffered two devastating attacks by over 188 Japanese aircraft that day. Over the next twenty months northern Australia was to endure almost a hundred air raids, from Exmouth in the west to Townsville in the east. At the same time, Japanese submarines attacked merchant vessels off the coast of eastern Australia. Reactions to these attacks varied across Australia. For those close to the areas under attack, the damage was obvious and the response immediate. The population in southern Australia was shielded from the detail of the attacks by distance and wartime censorship. Nevertheless, strict air raid precautions were implemented and the civilian population prepared to face the national emergency. On the night of 31 May – 1 June 1942 three Japanese midget submarines attacked Sydney Harbour. They were launched from a group of five larger submarines waiting off the Heads. All three midget submarines were lost, with two of them destroyed before they could fire their torpedoes. The third fired at but missed the USS Chicago, sinking HMAS Kuttabul, a coverted ferry, and killing 21 sleeping sailors aboard. Reactions by Sydney residents varied; a few made plans to flee the city, but many came to watch the recovery of the submarines. A week after the midget submarine attack on Sydney Harbour, two of the larger submarines returned to bombard Sydney and Newcastle with their deck guns. One shelled Newcastle for twenty minutes until driven off by fire from coastal artillery defences. Another submarine fired ten rounds into eastern Sydney. http://www.awm.gov.au/exhibitions/underattack/bombed/ During all of this, as in WW1, the Australian Defence Forces were in Europe- acting as cannon fodder - fighting "Britain's War" A gesture, never reciprocated But no-one EVER suffers as much as the English ( ... or as LOUDLY, at least) Perhaps a visit to the Australian War Memorial might bring a little more RESPECT to the forefront - from the pair of you ?

now you just sound like a fool.  To even suggest that Australia suffered anything like the English in WW2 is just stupid... SOB-level stupidity.

We hardly got off scot free but we had ONE attack on the mainland.

cods wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 9:07am:

wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:58am: Well for one, stop sacking public servants.     :) what a joke... so they sit there shuffling paper and thats ok...if you knew how many are on STRESS LEAVE .. some almost permanently... how many go homes sick at least once a week... you wouldnt be so smug. you obviously dont understand who pays public servants

cods.... some people on here are on jungle juice or live in fairy land... maybe they are mentally challenged..

just ask Greece and Italy etc what broke their countries....

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:20am:

Rudd will have them goosestepping around in their little black uniforms in no time.

This is choice.
Not creating any new jobs, just showing a tough face.

rudd has failed at every jump.
It was fuel watch, grocery watch, now youth watch.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 3:13pm:

Kat wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:29am: Quote: The Brahminy Foundation's Wilderness Camp, 200 kilometres from Darwin, is for some of society's most troubled and unemployable youths. Sounds like a POW camp, or Deep-South 'road-gang'-style incarceration to me. Is this the first step towards locking our unemployed up for being unemployed? If so, God help this country, because I surely will not. so why do you want to vote labor then??  no matter how much you hate abbott, these kinds of Rudd policies are far right of the liberals.  If you are to be true to your convictions them you MUST vote Liberal.

I'm being true to my convictions by voting for neither.

But keep thinking I'm a Laborite if it helps you sleep at night...

The Australian Greens, are the ones that support a fair and just increase of $50 a week for the unemployed.  Vote 1 Australian Greens.     :)    

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 1:27pm:

Oh really? How would you know this? the lifestyle of not being able to afford rent you mean? As for crime - well - you have a bunch of ppl in poverty and thats what happens. SOB http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

bs, poverty is an excuse for crime, and poverty here is nothing compared to 3rd world countries many of which have a far lower crime rate than us. Our society has become one of self entitlement, particularly in relation to those who live off social security. Its only supposed to be a safety net, not afford a comfortable existence.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 4:37pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:20am: Rudd will have them goosestepping around in their little black uniforms in no time. This is choice. Not creating any new jobs, just showing a tough face. rudd has failed at every jump. It was fuel watch, grocery watch, now youth watch.

No, not youth watch Sprint.
Something much better than that.
Rudd Youth.
Kinda like the Hitler Youth goosestepping around in their black uniforms, but without the racism, violence and the nazi salutes.
At least the kids will be able to march in step, not to mention looking good after having a proper haircut.  :)

ian wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 5:34pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 1:27pm: Oh really? How would you know this? the lifestyle of not being able to afford rent you mean? As for crime - well - you have a bunch of ppl in poverty and thats what happens. SOB http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg bs, poverty is an excuse for crime, and poverty here is nothing compared to 3rd world countries many of which have a far lower crime rate than us. Our society has become one of self entitlement, particularly in relation to those who live off social security. Its only supposed to be a safety net, not afford a comfortable existence.

For which the current rate is woefully insufficient, and has been for a decade at least.

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 3:17pm:

cods wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:42am: Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:34am: cods wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:26am: [quote author=pansi1951 link=1374962909/1#1 date=1374963510] The ALP and the Coalition need a boot camp for themselves, they're both out of control. Punish the youth, they're all lazy.....nothing to do with the fact that there is NO work. Little boot camps to con the youngsters into signing for the big boot camp. shhhhh pansi someone from the left tells us this govt has created 4 million jobs.. well THEY believe it?. can you see any govt making this generation DO ANYTHING?...hilarious. You do realise the previous generation said the same thing about your generation cods. I wouldn't speak too ill of them because it is these same people who will be changing your diapers in the future. You wouldn't want them to leave you messy for too long, would you? Is it the government wrecking manufacturing or the "lazy" kids?.....you can't have it both ways. This generation is not lazy, they work damn hard, when they get the opportunity. It's the economy......... onai you are probably of a different generation to me.. but believe me.. we all had jobs.. good and bad.. no such thing as dole in my day. we were never called lazy cant get out of bed.. this generation is lazy pansi.. I remember someone suggesting the get on a BUS to go to work.. shock waves went through the place. they do not work hard pansi.. they have far too many machines to do what MY GENERATION DID BY HAND AND BACK.. sorry matey...but that is a fact..men dont dig roads today machines do.. its the same with accounting.. its done my machine.. I would not go down a mine if you paid me too...and I admire those that do...but even that is becoming a thing of the past its all opencut now... look around pansi things have changed an awful lot. honest to god stop finding excuses for everything. thats nonsense cods. The idea that 'the good old days' had full employment is as silly as it is provably wrong.  In fact, for most of the last 15 years we have had historically LOWER unemployment than most of the last century.  You seem to forget the 10%+ unemployment of the 70s and 80s, to 30%+unemployment of the 30s that was only ended by the major employer called WW2.  The 'good old days' never existed.  even the 1950s very low unemployment was a farce as it was only achieved by denying married women the right to work.

I dont have a clue what you are going on about.. who mentioned unemployment what I said was we did not have the dole..I had no trouble finding employment..I did office work so it may have been easy I dont know.. but I do not remember any form of dole for unemployed in England..unless I was lucky and didnt know anyone who didnt have a job...

my husbands family who were poor even by those standards.. would go hop picking during the school holidays..like  gypsies.his dad worked but he also likes the pub.

Kat wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 6:05pm:

ian wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 5:34pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 1:27pm: Oh really? How would you know this? the lifestyle of not being able to afford rent you mean? As for crime - well - you have a bunch of ppl in poverty and thats what happens. SOB http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg bs, poverty is an excuse for crime, and poverty here is nothing compared to 3rd world countries many of which have a far lower crime rate than us. Our society has become one of self entitlement, particularly in relation to those who live off social security. Its only supposed to be a safety net, not afford a comfortable existence. For which the current rate is woefully insufficient, and has been for a decade at least.

have you lived on the dole kat?..

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 3:52pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 2:16pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 12:48pm: You cannot compare the impact of WW2 on Australia compared to how we suffered through consistent bombing campaigns of 1940-44. Whilst Australia like many suffered to so extent, it pales in comparison to Europe and Great Britain. OBVIOUSLY, "life in the colonies" was ( ... is ?) a component of little interest to the insular British education curriculum - "How We Won the War" Australia bombed, strafed and shelled http://www.awm.gov.au/exhibitions/underattack/images/maps/attacks.gif A desperate air battle was fought over Darwin yesterday as the air war in Australia’s north flared to its greatest pitch of fury. The Sun, 20 February 1942 On 19 February 1942 Japanese bombs fell on mainland Australia for the first time. The port and city of Darwin suffered two devastating attacks by over 188 Japanese aircraft that day. Over the next twenty months northern Australia was to endure almost a hundred air raids, from Exmouth in the west to Townsville in the east. At the same time, Japanese submarines attacked merchant vessels off the coast of eastern Australia. Reactions to these attacks varied across Australia. For those close to the areas under attack, the damage was obvious and the response immediate. The population in southern Australia was shielded from the detail of the attacks by distance and wartime censorship. Nevertheless, strict air raid precautions were implemented and the civilian population prepared to face the national emergency. On the night of 31 May – 1 June 1942 three Japanese midget submarines attacked Sydney Harbour. They were launched from a group of five larger submarines waiting off the Heads. All three midget submarines were lost, with two of them destroyed before they could fire their torpedoes. The third fired at but missed the USS Chicago, sinking HMAS Kuttabul, a coverted ferry, and killing 21 sleeping sailors aboard. Reactions by Sydney residents varied; a few made plans to flee the city, but many came to watch the recovery of the submarines. A week after the midget submarine attack on Sydney Harbour, two of the larger submarines returned to bombard Sydney and Newcastle with their deck guns. One shelled Newcastle for twenty minutes until driven off by fire from coastal artillery defences. Another submarine fired ten rounds into eastern Sydney. http://www.awm.gov.au/exhibitions/underattack/bombed/ During all of this, as in WW1, the Australian Defence Forces were in Europe- acting as cannon fodder - fighting "Britain's War" A gesture, never reciprocated But no-one EVER suffers as much as the English ( ... or as LOUDLY, at least) Perhaps a visit to the Australian War Memorial might bring a little more RESPECT to the forefront - from the pair of you ? now you just sound like a fool. . we had ONE attack on the mainland.

What IS this ...

An IGNORAMOUS ANONYMOUS convention ?


There were EIGHTY EIGHT Japanese Air Force bombing raids on mainland Australia - including SIXTY FOUR on Darwin, ALONE

http://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/air_raids/raids/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17073472


And not forgetting TWO Japanese submarine attacks on Sydney from the harbour

http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/fact-sheets/fs192.aspx





Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

- Abraham Lincoln

cods wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 6:16pm:

Kat wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 6:05pm: ian wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 5:34pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 1:27pm: Oh really? How would you know this? the lifestyle of not being able to afford rent you mean? As for crime - well - you have a bunch of ppl in poverty and thats what happens. SOB http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg bs, poverty is an excuse for crime, and poverty here is nothing compared to 3rd world countries many of which have a far lower crime rate than us. Our society has become one of self entitlement, particularly in relation to those who live off social security. Its only supposed to be a safety net, not afford a comfortable existence. For which the current rate is woefully insufficient, and has been for a decade at least. have you lived on the dole kat?..

No.

I've subsisted on it a couple of times, most notably during the 'recession we had to have'.

But live? No, can't be done.

Only an ignorant fool would seriously compare the attacks on Australia to the sustained, solid daily bombings of Great Britain by Nazi Germany over a 5 year period.

An utter utter fool you are Buzz.

Britain suffered terribly in the war both in the attacks on our mainland and the men that we lost.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 6:39pm:

Only an ignorant fool would seriously compare the attacks on Australia to the sustained, solid daily bombings of Great Britain by Nazi Germany over a 5 year period. An utter utter fool you are Buzz. Britain suffered terribly in the war both in the attacks on our mainland and the men that we lost.

... not to mention the many Australian troops fighting Britain's war - despite their OWN home-land under simultaneous air attack by Japanese forces ( ... an expectation of the colony, at the day) 



I didn't say one was more or less than the OTHER

It's not a smacking CONTEST

- but an attempt at an education, for those lacking, in bombing attacks on Australian soil during WW2


Japanese views are understandable
To this day - the history of the Japanese-Australian war in the Pacific is subject to censorship in Japanese education

The British believe WW2 was between Britain and Germany - and Britain won

But the ignorance shown by a "know it all" middle-aged, bible-bashing capitalist from Adelaide, Australia - is indescribable

WW2 was a GLOBAL war between the Allies of the British Empire, the United States and Free France v the Axis Powers of Nazi Germany, Italy and Japan.

bugger knows what p1ss poor education they teach you down here but the small number of attacks left Australia pretty much untouched.

In contrast our cities were decimated by daily bombings given we are just an hour and a bit flight from Germany.

Australia's major hubs by contrast are a long way from the Japanese Asia.


You really have no idea.

Quote:

WW2 was a GLOBAL war between the Allies of the British Empire, the United States and Free France v the Axis Powers of Nazi Germany, Italy and Japan.

You forgot the most important one:

The USSR.

Without them being involved there would have been no defeat of Germany in 1945.

D Day probably wouldn't have happened - well, not successfully with the yanks still fighting Japan.

Yes admittedly the Soviet Union in Europe.

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 11:28am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 10:46am: Kat wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 10:44am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 10:42am: It is good to have a pool of available workers. It isn't as good to have a pool of oxygen stealers who haven't worked a day in decades and spent my money on beer. And as long as you persist in that erroneous misconception, you'll have no credibility. Credibility with who? I just received a high mark on my performance review and was labelled "exceptional" in my achievement of corporate objectives. I'll take that credibility over the thoughts of the oddballs on here. I am your better. I know a dude who was a financial controller of a company who was on a five figure salary plus company car. They sent a couple of indian dudes from india to find out what he was doing and 2 weeks after that he got the push and his job is now being done in India for $7000 a year ;) Nobody is indispensable hicks ;)

As well he knows....

;)

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 12:15pm:

Absolutely. Leave cods alone. She's from England.

  ::) ::) ::) ::)

cods wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 12:18pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 12:15pm: Absolutely. Leave cods alone. She's from England. they wont leave me alone andrei.. I am easy pickings for the bully boys.. one of the things that always amazes me about this country is the fact they do HAVE IT REALLY GOOD.. when I left England they had 2 weeks holidays per annum..here it was 3/4 weeks..plus untold public holidays even Union days off.. and still it isnt enough..

:'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 3:18pm:

Kat wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 9:05am: Business needs to take responsibility too. Their policy of cutting jobs, wages and conditions, to protect CEO bonuses and dividends to parasi...oops, shareholders is a major cause of the unemployment problem. As is their refusal to provide on-the-job training for employees. cutting wages???  DOES NOT HAPPEN  or do you forget that wages are controlled by law?

Think you missed this bit, longy.
A lot of firms DO have this POLICY....

Under workchoices it actually happened.

And, before you go off quarter-cocked, the examples of such instances have been well documented, both here and elsewhere.

One if the reasons Rudd romped home in '07.

:)

cods wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 6:15pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 3:17pm: cods wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:42am: Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:34am: cods wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:26am: [quote author=pansi1951 link=1374962909/1#1 date=1374963510] The ALP and the Coalition need a boot camp for themselves, they're both out of control. Punish the youth, they're all lazy.....nothing to do with the fact that there is NO work. Little boot camps to con the youngsters into signing for the big boot camp. shhhhh pansi someone from the left tells us this govt has created 4 million jobs.. well THEY believe it?. can you see any govt making this generation DO ANYTHING?...hilarious. You do realise the previous generation said the same thing about your generation cods. I wouldn't speak too ill of them because it is these same people who will be changing your diapers in the future. You wouldn't want them to leave you messy for too long, would you? Is it the government wrecking manufacturing or the "lazy" kids?.....you can't have it both ways. This generation is not lazy, they work damn hard, when they get the opportunity. It's the economy......... onai you are probably of a different generation to me.. but believe me.. we all had jobs.. good and bad.. no such thing as dole in my day. we were never called lazy cant get out of bed.. this generation is lazy pansi.. I remember someone suggesting the get on a BUS to go to work.. shock waves went through the place. they do not work hard pansi.. they have far too many machines to do what MY GENERATION DID BY HAND AND BACK.. sorry matey...but that is a fact..men dont dig roads today machines do.. its the same with accounting.. its done my machine.. I would not go down a mine if you paid me too...and I admire those that do...but even that is becoming a thing of the past its all opencut now... look around pansi things have changed an awful lot. honest to god stop finding excuses for everything. thats nonsense cods. The idea that 'the good old days' had full employment is as silly as it is provably wrong.  In fact, for most of the last 15 years we have had historically LOWER unemployment than most of the last century.  You seem to forget the 10%+ unemployment of the 70s and 80s, to 30%+unemployment of the 30s that was only ended by the major employer called WW2.  The 'good old days' never existed.  even the 1950s very low unemployment was a farce as it was only achieved by denying married women the right to work. I dont have a clue what you are going on about.. who mentioned unemployment what I said was we did not have the dole..I had no trouble finding employment..I did office work so it may have been easy I dont know.. but I do not remember any form of dole for unemployed in England..unless I was lucky and didnt know anyone who didnt have a job... my husbands family who were poor even by those standards.. would go hop picking during the school holidays..like  gypsies.his dad worked but he also likes the pub.

------------------

United Kingdom

Main article: Jobseeker's Allowance

History and etymology

Unemployment benefits were first instituted in 1911. Ten years later over two million people were relying on the payments, as the United Kingdom experienced economic hardship after World War I.
Unemployment benefit is commonly referred to as "the dole"; to receive the benefit is to be "on the dole". "Dole" here is an archaic expression meaning "one's allotted portion", from the synonymous Old English word dāl.
-------------

:)

Quote:

The idea was framed as a possible vote winner for the government and was slated to be announced before August 15, if accepted.

... until the COST of keeping every unemployed teenager in the nation in detention was realised, no doubt

These sort of "no-brainers" get thrown up all the time - during round table "brain-storming" sessions
They rarely make it past the draft paper stage


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2f/Thumbs-down-icon.png



Don't hold your breath on THIS one

I think Kevin Rudds admiration for John Howard is quite obvious, except that John Howard was chastised by the left for being so cruel for his work for the dole scheme, but the left are silent when Kevin Rudd releases a policy just like the work for the dole scheme, but for young people.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 6:39pm:

Only an ignorant fool would seriously compare the attacks on Australia to the sustained, solid daily bombings of Great Britain by Nazi Germany over a 5 year period.

Oh now pardon me for saying this, Andrei, but I would like to question the accuracy of this statement here.

Germany stopped bombing Britain in May 1941. It seems to have lasted barely 12 months.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_britain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blitz

stryder wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 11:48pm:

the left are silent when Kevin Rudd releases a policy just like the work for the dole scheme, but for young people.

FIRSTLY, it's NOT a "policy"
SECONDLY, nothing has been "released"
THIRDLY, it's not a creation of Kevin Rudd's, but leftovers from Julia Gillard's "in" tray - of such low priority, it hasn't been binned yet




http://bijyo.oooooz.com/thumb/198/tumblr_lga91tPoa71qzsm0zo1_r1_250.jpg

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 3:14pm:

How about compulsory National Service for everyone over 18 years old, but not employed? We could put the conscripts to work, turning back the boats and all of our problems could be solved?

The military doesnt accept ppl over a certain age. Aussies are expected to work until they are (whats the age now?) 70? 69? Its not like you even get to retire anymore unless you are extremely healthy or wealthy.

SOB

http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 3:52pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 2:16pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 12:48pm: You cannot compare the impact of WW2 on Australia compared to how we suffered through consistent bombing campaigns of 1940-44. Whilst Australia like many suffered to so extent, it pales in comparison to Europe and Great Britain. OBVIOUSLY, "life in the colonies" was ( ... is ?) a component of little interest to the insular British education curriculum - "How We Won the War" Australia bombed, strafed and shelled http://www.awm.gov.au/exhibitions/underattack/images/maps/attacks.gif A desperate air battle was fought over Darwin yesterday as the air war in Australia’s north flared to its greatest pitch of fury. The Sun, 20 February 1942 On 19 February 1942 Japanese bombs fell on mainland Australia for the first time. The port and city of Darwin suffered two devastating attacks by over 188 Japanese aircraft that day. Over the next twenty months northern Australia was to endure almost a hundred air raids, from Exmouth in the west to Townsville in the east. At the same time, Japanese submarines attacked merchant vessels off the coast of eastern Australia. Reactions to these attacks varied across Australia. For those close to the areas under attack, the damage was obvious and the response immediate. The population in southern Australia was shielded from the detail of the attacks by distance and wartime censorship. Nevertheless, strict air raid precautions were implemented and the civilian population prepared to face the national emergency. On the night of 31 May – 1 June 1942 three Japanese midget submarines attacked Sydney Harbour. They were launched from a group of five larger submarines waiting off the Heads. All three midget submarines were lost, with two of them destroyed before they could fire their torpedoes. The third fired at but missed the USS Chicago, sinking HMAS Kuttabul, a coverted ferry, and killing 21 sleeping sailors aboard. Reactions by Sydney residents varied; a few made plans to flee the city, but many came to watch the recovery of the submarines. A week after the midget submarine attack on Sydney Harbour, two of the larger submarines returned to bombard Sydney and Newcastle with their deck guns. One shelled Newcastle for twenty minutes until driven off by fire from coastal artillery defences. Another submarine fired ten rounds into eastern Sydney. http://www.awm.gov.au/exhibitions/underattack/bombed/ During all of this, as in WW1, the Australian Defence Forces were in Europe- acting as cannon fodder - fighting "Britain's War" A gesture, never reciprocated But no-one EVER suffers as much as the English ( ... or as LOUDLY, at least) Perhaps a visit to the Australian War Memorial might bring a little more RESPECT to the forefront - from the pair of you ? now you just sound like a fool.  To even suggest that Australia suffered anything like the English in WW2 is just stupid... SOB-level stupidity. We hardly got off scot free but we had ONE attack on the mainland.

Go away troll

SOB

http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

ian wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 5:34pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 1:27pm: Oh really? How would you know this? the lifestyle of not being able to afford rent you mean? As for crime - well - you have a bunch of ppl in poverty and thats what happens. SOB http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg bs, poverty is an excuse for crime, and poverty here is nothing compared to 3rd world countries many of which have a far lower crime rate than us. Our society has become one of self entitlement, particularly in relation to those who live off social security. Its only supposed to be a safety net, not afford a comfortable existence.

Are you saying there are no homeless? Nobody who doesnt get a meal every day? Nobody who is broke enough to resort to crime to support their family?

Yeah you prolly are saying that and predictably you will rant on about homeless shelters and soup kitchens. Well they arent everywhere especially not in rural areas.

SOB

http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 6:39pm:

Only an ignorant fool would seriously compare the attacks on Australia to the sustained, solid daily bombings of Great Britain by Nazi Germany over a 5 year period. An utter utter fool you are Buzz. Britain suffered terribly in the war both in the attacks on our mainland and the men that we lost.

Not even pretending to be an aussie now?

SOB

http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:37am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 6:39pm: Britain suffered terribly in the war both in the attacks on our mainland and the men that we lost. Not even pretending to be an aussie now? SOB

Andrei needs a different font or colour - depending who "we" ... "us"... and "ours" ...  refers to, on a given day



http://www.gscdn.org/library/cms/04/904.jpg

Bill Shorten defends boot camps

    by: VERITY EDWARDS
    From: The Australian
    July 29, 2013


A PROPOSAL to force young jobseekers into army-style boot camps has been met with widespread condemnation.

A leaked submission from Labor ministers Bill Shorten and Kate Ellis to the expenditure review committee in May included plans for a Youth Start boot camp as a future election policy.

The strict army-style camps remain on the table as one of Kevin Rudd's election policies, with an announcement expected before August 15.

Mr Shorten defended the proposal yesterday and said the Youth Start proposal "would provide motivation, focus and employment skills for young jobseekers".

The plan is part of a range of welfare announcements that crack down on dependence, as the government tries to create a contrast from the softer position it wants to take on single mothers.


The Australian has learnt the boot camp idea is yet to go to cabinet but likely to win support because most ministers think the Newstart payments of single mothers must he boosted.

The four-year $70 million proposal calls for funds to be reallocated from Jobs Services Australia providers into programs targeting 15- to 21-year-olds.

Youth unemployment in parts of northern Adelaide has exceeded 43 per cent and in parts of Sydney has been above 40 per cent.

Australian Council of Social Service chief executive Cassandra Goldie said youth unemployment was rising and the federal government needed to take it seriously.

"The last thing we should be doing is stereotyping young people and sending them off to be disciplined because they're not trying hard enough."

Opposition employment participation spokeswoman Sussan Ley said boot camps would not resolve the problem.

Shorten is a grub. Simple as that.


Quote:

as the government tries to create a contrast from the softer position it wants to take on single mothers.

So show me the justification for taking a hard line on the unemployed.

Bit hard, when there isn't one.

Looks like the toe of the jack-boot is once again aimed squarely in the faces of the unemployed.

Always the first to suffer, always the last to benefit.

This bullshyt really does have to stop.

cods wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:42am:

in my day. we were never called lazy cant

typo ?

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:14am:

Are you saying there are no homeless? Nobody who doesnt get a meal every day? Nobody who is broke enough to resort to crime to support their family? Yeah you prolly are saying that and predictably you will rant on about homeless shelters and soup kitchens. Well they arent everywhere especially not in rural areas. SOB http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

Homelessness is a separate issue to unemployment, and yes, I am saying no one needs to resort to crime to support their family. What a nonsense. There is an adequate safety net in this country for everyone if they need it. The issue is what the money is spent on which is why those on the dole should never be given money but food stamps and vouchers.

ian wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:19am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 29th, 2013 at 5:14am: Are you saying there are no homeless? Nobody who doesnt get a meal every day? Nobody who is broke enough to resort to crime to support their family? Yeah you prolly are saying that and predictably you will rant on about homeless shelters and soup kitchens. Well they arent everywhere especially not in rural areas. SOB http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg Homelessness is a separate issue to unemployment, and yes, I am saying no one needs to resort to crime to support their family. What a nonsense. There is an adequate safety net in this country for everyone if they need it. The issue is what the money is spent on which is why those on the dole should never be given money but food stamps and vouchers.

Its not a separate issue for 100s of unemployed who couldn't pay their rent and ended up on the streets. Food stamps and vouchers wont pay the rent.

SOB

http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

ian wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:19am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 29th, 2013 at 5:14am: Are you saying there are no homeless? Nobody who doesnt get a meal every day? Nobody who is broke enough to resort to crime to support their family? Yeah you prolly are saying that and predictably you will rant on about homeless shelters and soup kitchens. Well they arent everywhere especially not in rural areas. SOB http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg Homelessness is a separate issue to unemployment, and yes, I am saying no one needs to resort to crime to support their family. What a nonsense. There is an adequate safety net in this country for everyone if they need it. The issue is what the money is spent on which is why those on the dole should never be given money but food stamps and vouchers.

The 'issue' is that we have no right to decide what they spend their money on.

And nor should we.

The whole concept is repugnant.

And, even as a 'safety-net' the dole at its current level is manifestly inadequate.

To claim otherwise is foolish in the extreme.

Dole's far too low: report

Date
    August 27, 2012


THE federal government has been urged to raise the dole amid warnings it is falling well behind other welfare payments.     :(

A report prepared by the National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling for church welfare agencies says the government has been sitting on advice since 2009 that there were growing inequalities between the dole and other government allowances.

''The unemployment benefit in Australia is particularly low, especially for singles,'' says the report, to be released today.      :(


''The Newstart allowance and Youth Allowance job seeker payment rates are indexed to the Australian Bureau of Statistics Consumer Price Index which is consistently lower than average household incomes growth and ensures that these households continue to slide further behind the rest of the community in terms of economic resources and opportunities''.

The 2009 Henry Review recommended job seeker allowances be raised, also arguing there was growing inequality between the dole and other government pensions.

Singles with no children who receive the Newstart allowance are eligible for $244 a week, plus a possible $60.10 a week in rental assistance. This compares with the average male weekly earning of $1298. After basics are paid for, Newstart recipients have an average of $22 a day discretionary money.

Workplace Minister Bill Shorten said today he sympathised with the plight of people on the Newstart allowance.

But, he said, while the government would consider calls to raise the payment, it would "stay where it is for the time being''.

''I'm not going to stand here and say I think life is easy for people on the Newstart allowance, because I don't think it is,''  Mr Shorten told reporters in Canberra.

''The Newstart allowance is incredibly low and would be difficult to live on.''      ;)

A Senate committee will this week hold public hearings on the adequacy of Newstart. The inquiry was sparked by Greens senator Rachel Siewert, who lived for a week on the equivalent of the dole.

''We know that over 60 per cent of people who receive Newstart are on the payment for more than 12 months,'' Senator Siewert said. ''Newstart remains more than $130 per week below the poverty line.''      :(

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/doles-far-too-low-report-20120826-24ulk.html#ixzz2aNjA9RKr

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:25am:

The 'issue' is that we have no right to decide what they spend their money on. And nor should we. The whole concept is repugnant.

Yes, we do. It is taxpayers money and it is not a right, it is a privelege. I dont find it repugnant at all. What I do find repugnant is large amounts of unemployed people sitting around getting on the booze and dope all day long. This is a stereotype because it is accurate.

98% of the submissions to that enquiry were in favour of an increase.

They were ignored.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:22am:

Its not a separate issue for 100s of unemployed who couldn't pay their rent and ended up on the streets. Food stamps and vouchers wont pay the rent. SOB http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

prove this.

ian wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:29am:

Kat wrote on Jul 29th, 2013 at 8:25am: The 'issue' is that we have no right to decide what they spend their money on. And nor should we. The whole concept is repugnant. Yes, we do. It is taxpayers money and it is not a right, it is a privelege. I dont find it repugnant at all. What I do find repugnant is large amounts of unemployed people sitting around getting on the booze and dope all day long. This is a stereotype because it is accurate.

I'm sorry, but we do not and should not.

And they do not '.sit(ting) around getting on the booze and dope all day long'. That's
all fiction, these people exist only in the smallest of minorities. And not just among
the unemployed.

Get off your high-horse, and seek out some facts, instead of parroting stereotypes.

The stereotype is not accurate, and hasn't been for years.

If ever.

Anyway, I'd love to stay and chat, but I have work to go to. No doubt you'll
still be here when I knock-off...

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:36am:

at's all fiction, these people exist only in the smallest of minorities. And not just among the unemployed. Get off your high-horse, and seek out some facts, instead of parroting stereotypes. The stereotype is not accurate, and hasn't been for years. If ever.

Rubbish, these are the facts.


Quote:

Anyway, I'd love to stay and chat, but I have work to go to. No doubt you'll still be here when I knock-off...

ha, says the one posting 24/7

ian wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:54am:

Kat wrote on Jul 29th, 2013 at 8:36am: at's all fiction, these people exist only in the smallest of minorities. And not just among the unemployed. Get off your high-horse, and seek out some facts, instead of parroting stereotypes. The stereotype is not accurate, and hasn't been for years. If ever. Rubbish, these are the facts. Quote: Anyway, I'd love to stay and chat, but I have work to go to. No doubt you'll still be here when I knock-off... ha, says the one posting 24/7

Fool.

ian wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:31am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 29th, 2013 at 8:22am: Its not a separate issue for 100s of unemployed who couldn't pay their rent and ended up on the streets. Food stamps and vouchers wont pay the rent. SOB http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg prove this.

It has been demonstrated over and over on this forum that the dole is not enough to pay rent unless you have 6 ppl sharing one place and a real estate isnt going to rent you that place if you are on the dole.

SOB

http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

ian wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:54am:

Kat wrote on Jul 29th, 2013 at 8:36am: at's all fiction, these people exist only in the smallest of minorities. And not just among the unemployed. Get off your high-horse, and seek out some facts, instead of parroting stereotypes. The stereotype is not accurate, and hasn't been for years. If ever. Rubbish, these are the facts.

Prove it

SOB

http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:25am:

The 'issue' is that we have no right to decide what they spend their money on. And nor should we.

The smart people will save and not spend their money on beer or retail therapy.

That's much better than providing benefits unconditionally. The people will decide for themselves how they will spend their money, based on their own needs. Assuming a Newstart allowance of $500 per fortnight, that would work out to $15.2 billion per year and would be less than 2% of GDP based on the 2012 GDP figure of $970 billion (by PPP - purchasing power parity). It is hardly a disruption of market-driven capitalism.

The concept is one that Im unsure of.

As demonstrated by the group Boystown, the program they have implemented has had an enormous amount of success, however it is part of a wider program that is about support networks as well as training.

Where programs like this can fall down is the motives behind those running it, and the willingness of the people involved.

The mentors behind Boystown are very driven and passionate people.  They have created a culture that is commendable.  You cant just recreate this by throwing government money into a pot and saying "do what they do".  It would make more sense to fund boystown to expand their program slowly so they can continue to assist more and more people but still maintain their group culture and reach their objectives.

When I talk about the willingness of the participants, well, that says it all doesnt it.  The people that attend boystown do so because they want to make something of themselves, or they have hit rock bottom.  If you make the governments program "compulsary" then that itself is setting it up for failure straight away.

Mnemonic wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 12:34am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 6:39pm: Only an ignorant fool would seriously compare the attacks on Australia to the sustained, solid daily bombings of Great Britain by Nazi Germany over a 5 year period. Oh now pardon me for saying this, Andrei, but I would like to question the accuracy of this statement here. Germany stopped bombing Britain in May 1941. It seems to have lasted barely 12 months. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_britain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blitz

That's our ANDREI !


( ... on the cods and Andrei example - NO-ONE whinges like the ENGLISH)i

ian wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:19am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 29th, 2013 at 5:14am: Are you saying there are no homeless? Nobody who doesnt get a meal every day? Nobody who is broke enough to resort to crime to support their family? Yeah you prolly are saying that and predictably you will rant on about homeless shelters and soup kitchens. Well they arent everywhere especially not in rural areas. SOB http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg Homelessness is a separate issue to unemployment, and yes, I am saying no one needs to resort to crime to support their family. What a nonsense. There is an adequate safety net in this country for everyone if they need it. The issue is what the money is spent on which is why those on the dole should never be given money but food stamps and vouchers.

Besides if all the unemployed get is vouchers and stamps how are they supposed to pay rent?

SOB

http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:59am:

ian wrote on Jul 29th, 2013 at 8:19am: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 29th, 2013 at 5:14am: Are you saying there are no homeless? Nobody who doesnt get a meal every day? Nobody who is broke enough to resort to crime to support their family? Yeah you prolly are saying that and predictably you will rant on about homeless shelters and soup kitchens. Well they arent everywhere especially not in rural areas. SOB http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg Homelessness is a separate issue to unemployment, and yes, I am saying no one needs to resort to crime to support their family. What a nonsense. There is an adequate safety net in this country for everyone if they need it. The issue is what the money is spent on which is why those on the dole should never be given money but food stamps and vouchers. Besides if all the unemployed get is vouchers and stamps how are they supposed to pay rent? SOB http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

The point is, Spot, that this is such a discriminatory move it should NEVER be allowed to be implemented.

Imagine the hue & cry if we decided that workers could only have half their pay in cash?

There'd be an uproar.

Well doing it to the unemployed is NO different, but far more repugnant.

These dummies like Ian et al need to accept that we have NO right to decide how the unemployed 
spend THEIR money, and nor SHOULD we.

I'm sure conservatives want it specifically BECAUSE it's such an offensive and discriminatory idea.

Hoe DARE anyone assume I can't handle MY money, simply because I lose my job.

The unemployed need compensation for not having a job, not punishment.

I will never support a punitive or discriminatory response to the unemployment issue.

EVER!

Sadly, the Right are racing, as usual,to hurt the unemployed the most, but Labor are not far behind.

Oh, and the usual suspects needn't bother with their pathetic insults either...

Hoe DARE anyone assume I can't handle MY money, simply because I lose my job.



Governments never admit that unemployment is their problem/bad management, they always put the blame back on the job seekers.

There is no shame in being unemployed in this current economic climate.

A friend of mine works for Fosters and they are cutting staff there, unheard of, a booze company going bad, but that's a sign of things to come.

Young job seekers would be forced into tough army-style boot camps in order to qualify for the dole, under an election policy being considered by the Rudd government.

#####

LOL

Hilarious!

Only justice, seeing as how they're reportedly gonna all be voting for Rudd-Labor at the election.

If Rudd-Labor is re-elected the nation will be finished...so they're likely to be in boot camp for a very long time. :)

Many people running businesses are just waiting to see the election result.
If Rudd wins they'll be off to early retirement and business closure, no more jobs in them.

Mnemonic wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 12:34am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 6:39pm: Only an ignorant fool would seriously compare the attacks on Australia to the sustained, solid daily bombings of Great Britain by Nazi Germany over a 5 year period. Oh now pardon me for saying this, Andrei, but I would like to question the accuracy of this statement here. Germany stopped bombing Britain in May 1941. It seems to have lasted barely 12 months. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_britain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blitz

I am trying to pardon such a stupid statement.
Do us all a favour and do some bloody research first will you before posting such crap.
The Battle of Britain may have finished in 1940, but the bombing never stopped whether by aircraft or by V1 or V2 rockets later in the war.
Your obvious ignorance is astounding.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 8:40am:

I am trying to pardon such a stupid statement. Do us all a favour and do some bloody research first will you before posting such crap. The Battle of Britain may have finished in 1940, but the bombing never stopped whether by aircraft or by V1 or V2 rockets later in the war. Your obvious ignorance is astounding.

You obviously missed the context in which I was posting that, despite the fact that I highlighted the key words in yellow. I was responding to a statement Andrei made of 5 years of "sustained, solid daily bombings." That was what I was disputing. Obviously the Germans may have made some minor sorties after "the Blitz" and "Battle of Britain," but they never went back to large-scale bombing of Britain. I was talking about sustained bombing. Maybe I should have been more "specific," but after writing several paragraphs, I decided to get to the point and put in something brief.

If you think that the air raids on Great Britain began and ended with the run up to the 1940 Battle of Britain you are either ignorant or stupid.

I can excuse Buzz because he isn't very intelligent and quite gullible as a result of not ever having learned much but others can't be excused.

As an example, from October 1944 to Jan 1945 there were a total of 1,402 V2 rockets fired at Great Britain. 1,358 of them at London, 43 at Norwich and 1 landed in Ipswich.
A rough average of 11 attacks every night without warning.

I really do wonder just how much you people are taught about WW2 in the most important theatre of it, Europe.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:21pm:

I really do wonder just how much you people are taught about WW2 in the most important theatre of it, Europe.

Yeah, not as far as we were concerned.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:21pm:

If you think that the air raids on Great Britain began and ended with the run up to the 1940 Battle of Britain you are either ignorant or stupid. I can excuse Buzz because he isn't very intelligent and quite gullible as a result of not ever having learned much but others can't be excused. As an example, from October 1944 to Jan 1945 there were a total of 1,402 V2 rockets fired at Great Britain. 1,358 of them at London, 43 at Norwich and 1 landed in Ipswich. A rough average of 11 attacks every night without warning. I really do wonder just how much you people are taught about WW2 in the most important theatre of it, Europe.

I wonder what this has to do with proposed Youth Boot Camps?

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 7:37am:

cods wrote on Jul 28th, 2013 at 8:42am: in my day. we were never called lazy cant typo ?

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:27pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 2:21pm: If you think that the air raids on Great Britain began and ended with the run up to the 1940 Battle of Britain you are either ignorant or stupid. I can excuse Buzz because he isn't very intelligent and quite gullible as a result of not ever having learned much but others can't be excused. As an example, from October 1944 to Jan 1945 there were a total of 1,402 V2 rockets fired at Great Britain. 1,358 of them at London, 43 at Norwich and 1 landed in Ipswich. A rough average of 11 attacks every night without warning. I really do wonder just how much you people are taught about WW2 in the most important theatre of it, Europe. I wonder what this has to do with proposed Youth Boot Camps?

bugger all but I hate ignorance.

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:25pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 2:21pm: I really do wonder just how much you people are taught about WW2 in the most important theatre of it, Europe. Yeah, not as far as we were concerned.

Not sure the families of Anzacs in Europe would agree.

The Australian Air Force flew in the Battle of Britain and in the Battle for the Atlantic.
The ANzacs were at El Alamein, Greece and Italy pushing the offensive.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:51pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 2:25pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 2:21pm: I really do wonder just how much you people are taught about WW2 in the most important theatre of it, Europe. Yeah, not as far as we were concerned. Not sure the families of Anzacs in Europe would agree. The Australian Air Force flew in the Battle of Britain and in the Battle for the Atlantic. The ANzacs were at El Alamein, Greece and Italy pushing the offensive.

Yeah but the Germans weren't bombing our country or sitting on our doorstep and if Curtain had his way all those Aussie troops woulve been back on our soil and not defending Britain


We were a lot more concerned with the Pacific Campaign than the European one because it affected us directly.

What the Boat People have over dole recipients is they are provided with shelter, food, medicine, the luxuries like access to television and computers.

Most dole recipients 'not' living at their parent's  home would never stretch their pittance to what the illegals get as soon as they hit dry dock.

red baron wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 3:58pm:

What the Boat People have over dole recipients is they are provided with shelter, food, medicine, the luxuries like access to television and computers. Most dole recipients 'not' living at their parent's  home would never stretch their pittance to what the illegals get as soon as they hit dry dock.

"illegals"    ;D


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/34/A_Current_Affair_logo.png

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:21pm:

If you think that the air raids on Great Britain began and ended with the run up to the 1940 Battle of Britain you are either ignorant or stupid. I can excuse Buzz because he isn't very intelligent and quite gullible as a result of not ever having learned much but others can't be excused.

That wasn't even my point anyway. I was disputing what you said about Germany's "sustained bombing" campaign against Britain, which didn't last beyond 12 months. I can see how it seemed that I was saying that Germany never bombed Britain ever again, but that's mainly because after typing out a much longer post I decided to just cut it short and didn't check carefully what I was posting. In the context of talking about a "sustained bombing" campaign, however, the bombing did stop -- momentarily.

My mistake, however, doesn't excuse you from exaggerating and making an inaccurate statement. Contrary to what you said, Britain did not suffer from anywhere near "5 years" of "sustained, solid daily bombings."

Starting from June 1941, Germany started invading the Soviet Union and they took 4,000 aircraft over there as well, meaning that Britain was mostly off the hook. They lost most of it there. Operation Steinbock in 1944 was nowhere near as successful as the original "blitz" over Britain. They lost a staggering 329 out of 524 bombers in that campaign, a much higher proportion of losses than during the whole Battle of Britain campaign. That was due to the lack of experience of their bomber crews then and much better British defences.

The V2 rockets were a spectacular achievement, but they didn't get to enjoy them for very long.


Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:21pm:

I really do wonder just how much you people are taught about WW2 in the most important theatre of it, Europe.

We learnt Asian history when I was in secondary school, but there were plenty of books about WW2 in the school library covering both the Pacific and European theatres.

Socialists are watching free market capitalists like a hawke for economic crimes and corruption committed against the Australian youth, when socialism comes in, big business and organized crime will be made accountable for their actions...

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 4:21pm:

Socialists are watching free market capitalists like a hawke for economic crimes and corruption committed against the Australian youth, when socialism comes in, big business and organized crime will be made accountable for their actions...

Like a bob hawke?

Insane how a topic on youth booth camps somehow ends up being about bombing attacks in WW2.

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 4:34pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 4:21pm: Socialists are watching free market capitalists like a hawke for economic crimes and corruption committed against the Australian youth, when socialism comes in, big business and organized crime will be made accountable for their actions... Like a bob hawke?

Close enough that as free market capitalism collapses under the weight of its own corruption, those who have been involved in what is clearly economic crimes against the Australian people will be charged for their participation in organized crime and judged accordingly by the harshest of socialist measures...its a free market only in their minds...they will be made to be accountable for their actions and decisions that affect the socio economic entitlements of fellow citizens...

Dont collaborate with the free market, with organized crime and corruption, we are watching you if you come to our attention...we are keeping records on everything you say and do...

All you free market capitalists need to understand that when your organized crime networks collapse that private property and profit in all of its forms will be abolished...be ware of what sounds to you like a clever idea to punish someone you are exploiting...socialists view things very differently....we view property and crime very differently...

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 4:36pm:

Insane how a topic on youth booth camps somehow ends up being about bombing attacks in WW2.

I thought you would have twigged by now, verge.

It's all about andrei......

:)

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 4:36pm:

Insane how a topic on youth booth camps somehow ends up being about bombing attacks in WW2.

Because one is an interesting historical event and the other is just a policy pant load, never going to happen.

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 4:41pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 4:34pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 4:21pm: Socialists are watching free market capitalists like a hawke for economic crimes and corruption committed against the Australian youth, when socialism comes in, big business and organized crime will be made accountable for their actions... Like a bob hawke? Close enough that as free market capitalism collapses under the weight of its own corruption, those who have been involved in what is clearly economic crimes against the Australian people will be charged for their participation in organized crime and judged accordingly by the harshest of socialist measures...its a free market only in their minds...they will be made to be accountable for their actions and decisions that affect the socio economic entitlements of fellow citizens...

Soooo, not a bob hawke then?

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:01pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 4:41pm: BigOl64 wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 4:34pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 4:21pm: Socialists are watching free market capitalists like a hawke for economic crimes and corruption committed against the Australian youth, when socialism comes in, big business and organized crime will be made accountable for their actions... Like a bob hawke? Close enough that as free market capitalism collapses under the weight of its own corruption, those who have been involved in what is clearly economic crimes against the Australian people will be charged for their participation in organized crime and judged accordingly by the harshest of socialist measures...its a free market only in their minds...they will be made to be accountable for their actions and decisions that affect the socio economic entitlements of fellow citizens... Soooo, not a bob hawke then?

If you are a right wing redneck, or just some corrupt sh1t feeding off the free market of corruption...stop it, when socialism comes in people involved in organized economic crimes against social property rights will be dealt with by the harshest of socialist measures which will include but is not limited to penal reeducation and rehabilitation...

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:08pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:01pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 4:41pm: BigOl64 wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 4:34pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 4:21pm: Socialists are watching free market capitalists like a hawke for economic crimes and corruption committed against the Australian youth, when socialism comes in, big business and organized crime will be made accountable for their actions... Like a bob hawke? Close enough that as free market capitalism collapses under the weight of its own corruption, those who have been involved in what is clearly economic crimes against the Australian people will be charged for their participation in organized crime and judged accordingly by the harshest of socialist measures...its a free market only in their minds...they will be made to be accountable for their actions and decisions that affect the socio economic entitlements of fellow citizens... Soooo, not a bob hawke then? If you are a right wing redneck, or just some corrupt sh1t feeding off the free market of corruption...stop it, when socialism comes in people involved in organized economic crimes against social property rights will be dealt with by the harshest of socialist measures which will include but is not limited to penal reeducation and rehabilitation...

I think Ill be ok if you have anything to do with this most harshest of punishments.  ;D

Lobo wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 4:49pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 4:36pm: Insane how a topic on youth booth camps somehow ends up being about bombing attacks in WW2. I thought you would have twigged by now, verge. It's all about andrei...... :)

Yeah because I was in WW2 Pete.
Dear God.

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:11pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:08pm: BigOl64 wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:01pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 4:41pm: BigOl64 wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 4:34pm: corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 4:21pm: Socialists are watching free market capitalists like a hawke for economic crimes and corruption committed against the Australian youth, when socialism comes in, big business and organized crime will be made accountable for their actions... Like a bob hawke? Close enough that as free market capitalism collapses under the weight of its own corruption, those who have been involved in what is clearly economic crimes against the Australian people will be charged for their participation in organized crime and judged accordingly by the harshest of socialist measures...its a free market only in their minds...they will be made to be accountable for their actions and decisions that affect the socio economic entitlements of fellow citizens... Soooo, not a bob hawke then? If you are a right wing redneck, or just some corrupt sh1t feeding off the free market of corruption...stop it, when socialism comes in people involved in organized economic crimes against social property rights will be dealt with by the harshest of socialist measures which will include but is not limited to penal reeducation and rehabilitation... I think Ill be ok if you have anything to do with this most harshest of punishments.  ;D

Go and study what happened to economic criminals under Stalin and tell me you will be ok when free market organized crime collapses...

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:16pm:

[Go and study what happened to economic criminals under Stalin and tell me you will be ok when free market organized crime collapses...

About the same that happened to the Jews, average men and women of Russia, children, trusted politbureau members, generals they were killed without mercy, without a valid reason and without justice.

Is that what you are trying to bring forth for Australia and stalinist dictatorship that uses murder as the terror weapon of choice against your own countrymen?

Yeah, don't like ya chances, the police and ADF will hunt you down like communist running dogs.  ;D

Commos are kinda funny when they get all threateny, but your threats are nothing out here in the ral world. But if you feel you're up to it Im more than happy to recieve avisit from you and see if you are willing to have a go for the communist cause.  ;D

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:24pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:16pm: [Go and study what happened to economic criminals under Stalin and tell me you will be ok when free market organized crime collapses... About the same that happened to the Jews, average men and women of Russia, children, trusted politbureau members, generals they were killed without mercy, without a valid reason and without justice. Is that what you are trying to bring forth for Australia and stalinist dictatorship that uses murder as the terror weapon of choice against your own countrymen? Yeah, don't like ya chances, the police and ADF will hunt you down like communist running dogs.  ;D Commos are kinda funny when they get all threateny, but your threats are nothing out here in the ral world. But if you feel you're up to it Im more than happy to recieve avisit from you and see if you are willing to have a go for the communist cause.  ;D

Rubbish...everyone punished under Johseph Stalin was found guilty of the most heinous of crimes...your right wing hero hitler persecuted the weak and vulnerable like all right wing evil doers do...

Free Market capitalism and organized crime is collapsing...don't be caught collaborating or expect a knock at the door when the socialist regime is in place....

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 4:36pm:

Insane how a topic on youth booth camps somehow ends up being about bombing attacks in WW2.

I don't particularly like the idea of "boot camps" because it seems like too much of an "army" thing. It would give the boys a distorted view of what it means to be masculine. They would think their life's purpose was being macho, muscular and aggressive. These people would be more likely to get into brawls at night and kill people with a king hit.

Mandatory employment in a factory or mandatory training to become a tradesperson is something I think would be more suitable. Pay them minimum wage and below market rates or on commission. They will make things cheaper and maybe help us compete with foreign imports. I think "boot camp" is a waste of time. As the name suggests, it's probably just people putting "boots" on, setting up tents, camping, exercise, marching and jogging around in the park. Just another outdoor education program. :D

I also don't understand why "youth unemployment" is such a problem when they can just send them back to school where they should be.

How about ongoing detention for being unemployed, absent from school and/or for being a truant? :D

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:13pm:

Yeah because I was in WW2 Pete. Dear God.

Really .............. You'd have to be at least 70 years old and wearing spectacles. You should be retired by now but it seems like you're still working. I am starting to picture you now with a walking stick.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:46pm:

bugger all but I hate ignorance.

I thought maybe I should make one final comment on the discussion here on "sustained bombing" of Britain.

When someone says that Britain underwent "five years" of "sustained, solid daily bombings," I assume that they are talking about a "sustained bombing campaign" like the "Battle of Britain" or "the Blitz."

If I then mention the "Battle of Britain" or "the Blitz," and then say, "Germany stopped bombing Britain in May 1941," I wouldn't then assume you'd think I meant they stopped for the entire remainder of the war.

I can see why some people thought I meant that they stopped bombing Britain for the entire remainder of the war, because I didn't say otherwise. However, I never said that.

I would have thought it was obvious that by saying, "Germany stopped bombing Britain in May 1941," I am refuting what Andrei said about five unbroken years of sustained bombing. It makes sense when it was around the same time that Germany started invading the Soviet Union and they committed 4,000 of their aircraft to the task.

Notice that Andrei did not say, five years of "bombing" from Germany, but "five years of sustained bombing." I had to point out that he was wrong, that there were huge lulls in "sustained bombing" in the 5-6 years of the war.

The use of V-2 rockets to attack Britain, even in a "sustained manner" is irrelevant because I was countering what Andrei said about five unbroken years of sustained bombing -- not whether Germany ever bombed Britain again.

If anyone wants to accuse me of being "ignorant," they should at least try to understand what I actually meant first and not put words in my mouth.

Well pulled-off-topic, fellas.

Amazing how a topic about the worst-off in our country, and how they're
being victimised, can become all about Andrei & World War 2.

red baron wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 3:58pm:

What the Boat People have over dole recipients is they are provided with shelter, food, medicine, the luxuries like access to television and computers. Most dole recipients 'not' living at their parent's  home would never stretch their pittance to what the illegals get as soon as they hit dry dock.

How exactly is access to television a "luxury"? They are a dime a dozen and you cant even apply for a job without access to the internet nowadays.

SOB

http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 6:26am:

red baron wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 3:58pm: What the Boat People have over dole recipients is they are provided with shelter, food, medicine, the luxuries like access to television and computers. Most dole recipients 'not' living at their parent's  home would never stretch their pittance to what the illegals get as soon as they hit dry dock. How exactly is access to television a "luxury"? They are a dime a dozen and you cant even apply for a job without access to the internet nowadays. SOB http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

Didn't you know, mate...

The unemployed aren't entitled to have the internet.

Or a TV set that's less than 20 years old.

Or a cell-phone.

Well, not if you believe the 'haters', at least.

The unemployed are entitled to have what they like Kat.

What I would ask is what do they do to deserve more money?

What do they actually DO for it? I work 10-11 hours a day for my wage. What are the unemployed doing for the cash we give them?

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 11:44am:

The unemployed are entitled to have what they like Kat. What I would ask is what do they do to deserve more money? What do they actually DO for it? I work 10-11 hours a day for my wage. What are the unemployed doing for the cash we give them?

Trying to survive and hoping to get a job but longer it goes less likely that is because they cant afford clothes and accommodation. One can only hope that you dont find out by getting retrenched.

SOB

http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 11:44am:

The unemployed are entitled to have what they like Kat. What I would ask is what do they do to deserve more money?

They aren't getting any more money, if it makes you happy.

If people had to deserve something to get it, the human population would be much smaller than it is now.

Even a market-driven economy, the concept that you are fond of advocating, doesn't give people what they deserve. You're not going to tell me that someone who gets $20 million a year actually deserves all that money. It's not about what people deserve. It's about being practical.

We have a market-driven economy because it is a practical concept. It's where the economy regulates itself.

We have social security because it is a practical concept. If we give people the means to find a job, then people can find work and the economy will remain productive.


Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 11:44am:

What do they actually DO for it? I work 10-11 hours a day for my wage. What are the unemployed doing for the cash we give them?

I thought you had a salary. What is a person on a gross income in excess of $150k a year doing on a wage?

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 12:10pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 31st, 2013 at 11:44am: The unemployed are entitled to have what they like Kat. What I would ask is what do they do to deserve more money? What do they actually DO for it? I work 10-11 hours a day for my wage. What are the unemployed doing for the cash we give them? Trying to survive and hoping to get a job but longer it goes less likely that is because they cant afford clothes and accommodation. One can only hope that you dont find out by getting retrenched. SOB http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg

I have been retrenched in my time actually - something I worked to engineer as a payout.

You then get another job. Its about attitude, you either let life's challenges defeat you or make you.

We all have problems in life - it seems some just crumble and expect everyone else to bale them out.

Mnemonic wrote on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 2:14pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 31st, 2013 at 11:44am: The unemployed are entitled to have what they like Kat. What I would ask is what do they do to deserve more money? They aren't getting any more money, if it makes you happy. If people had to deserve something to get it, the human population would be much smaller than it is now. Even a market-driven economy, the concept that you are fond of advocating, doesn't give people what they deserve. You're not going to tell me that someone who gets $20 million a year actually deserves all that money. It's not about what people deserve. It's about being practical. We have a market-driven economy because it is a practical concept. It's where the economy regulates itself. We have social security because it is a practical concept. If we give people the means to find a job, then people can find work and the economy will remain productive. Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 31st, 2013 at 11:44am: What do they actually DO for it? I work 10-11 hours a day for my wage. What are the unemployed doing for the cash we give them? I thought you had a salary. What is a person on a gross income in excess of $150k a year doing on a wage?

On the contrary the market is always the best benchmark of what someone is worth.

If someone is paid $20m per year then the market has valued them at that.

In a listed entity, the remuneration committee determines the exec salary and it takes into account the market at the time.

Why when I was looking for work - the 4 roles I ended up looking at all paid within $5-10k of each other?
Because the market knew my worth, the market knew the value of the role to the organization.

In a market based supply/demand curve the market ALWAYS knows the value of the person.

The market is no measure of a persons worth but the degree of their corruption and level they can be morally compromised to get ahead with organized crime...

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 2:38pm:

The market is no measure of a persons worth but the degree of their corruption and level they can be morally compromised to get ahead with organized crime...

Organized crime eh?

Like Al Capone?
Jimmy Hoffa?
Kenny Noye?

Interesting circles you have....

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 2:32pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 31st, 2013 at 12:10pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 31st, 2013 at 11:44am: The unemployed are entitled to have what they like Kat. What I would ask is what do they do to deserve more money? What do they actually DO for it? I work 10-11 hours a day for my wage. What are the unemployed doing for the cash we give them? Trying to survive and hoping to get a job but longer it goes less likely that is because they cant afford clothes and accommodation. One can only hope that you dont find out by getting retrenched. SOB http://spotofborg.com/files/persecution5.jpg I have been retrenched in my time actually - something I worked to engineer as a payout. You then get another job. Its about attitude, you either let life's challenges defeat you or make you. We all have problems in life - it seems some just crumble and expect everyone else to bale them out.

Attitude is only a deciding factor in whether you get the job. 

The supply and demand of positions within your skill set determine whether or not you can get a job in the first place.

Whiles its easy to say "people should just re-train" it is actually a very ignorant and pathetic statement.

As a financial controller I know I can get a job any day of the week.  A process line worker can not.

Tell me which workers tend to get made redundant more often in larger groups which then floods the immediate labour market?

You really shouldnt begrudge those who are not as fortunate as yourself, its not really becoming of someone who touts themselves as a leader.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 2:41pm:

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 31st, 2013 at 2:38pm: The market is no measure of a persons worth but the degree of their corruption and level they can be morally compromised to get ahead with organized crime... Organized crime eh? Like Al Capone? Jimmy Hoffa? Kenny Noye? Interesting circles you have....

Free Market capitalism is lawlessness and organized crime and should be treated as an organized crime problem...

I don't think I've ever suggested people should re-train en masse - though people can do something about the line of work they are in compared to where the supply and demand of their particular location is.

That's what I'd do.

I am quite understanding of people who find themselves out of work through no fault of their own.
The retrenchment I had was part of a mass re-alignment of the production we were doing from ANZ to India and many were impacted.
Not everyone was as fortunate as I - no doubt at all.

But nonetheless many many people seem to feel the world owes them a living - it does not.

Verge wrote on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 2:47pm:

[quote author=Andrei.Hicks link=1374962909/162#162 date=1375245140] As a financial controller I know I can get a job any day of the week.  A process line worker can not. .

You might want to think about that one.

I spent 3 month process hiring for a $200,000 Financial Controller down here - of the 10 final stage candidates I had - 7 were out of the workforce.

Good candidates too. Goldman Sachs, GM Holden, BHP, ANZ....

You MAY (heaven forbid) even need to do what I do and re-locate to where it suits better.

Quote:

I am quite understanding of people who find themselves out of work through no fault of their own.

BAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Bullshyt!

You've been in the thick of it, abusing those out of work, name-calling and stereotyping with the best of them, for years.

You've never given a smack about the unemployed except insofar as how denying them can benefit you.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 3:20pm:

I don't think I've ever suggested people should re-train en masse - though people can do something about the line of work they are in compared to where the supply and demand of their particular location is. That's what I'd do. I am quite understanding of people who find themselves out of work through no fault of their own. The retrenchment I had was part of a mass re-alignment of the production we were doing from ANZ to India and many were impacted. Not everyone was as fortunate as I - no doubt at all. But nonetheless many many people seem to feel the world owes them a living - it does not.

No one is suggesting they are owed a living, and far from it.  What people expect is that their government wont let a segment of its population live in poverty and in unlivable conditions.

Unemployment brings about far more expenditure that a dole cheque on a cost to government.  Malnutrution brings an added burden to our health systems as people cant afford decent food, poor living conditions and homelessness bring about a whole range of illnesses related to living on the street which adds further costs to health care.  It also overburdens the work of charities, its volunteers and the requirement for donations.  Then there is also associated costs of law enforcement that comes with poverty as people are pushed into circumstances that ordinary people dont have a clue about.

The way you carry on you would think those on the dole are living it up and laughing at us.  The same man who thinks he deserves additional child care sponsored by the government while on a few hundred grand.

Tell me this much, if it is so easy, why not do it yourself?

On the contrary, I think though that there exists generational unemployed who don't get off their arses and get a job - simply expecting us to pay for them.

They get concessions, they get benefits for families, they get unemployment hand-outs - plenty of things.

However not all of that goes where it should.

I am all for helping people to look after their families whilst they find work - I am not about helping them to go to the pub and get p1ssed with our money.

Hence why I prefer a voucher or stamp system as benefits.
That way we can be assured that at least it is targetted to the right areas of spending.

- And you're twisting my words on childcare. I said we needed help where others (like you) do not because we have no family network at all to help us.

Kat wrote on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 3:38pm:

Quote: I am quite understanding of people who find themselves out of work through no fault of their own. BAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Bullshyt! You've been in the thick of it, abusing those out of work, name-calling and stereotyping with the best of them, for years. You've never given a smack about the unemployed except insofar as how denying them can benefit you.

All the while being an instrumental party of an organisation that made the dole que even longer by shipping jobs to India all the while enjoying his much loved bonus, and six months pay worth over a hundred grand.

Thats the difference between Andre and I, he carries out his duties as instructed and takes his money with a grin all the while trashing those who earn less than him.

Makes you wonder how he sleeps at night knowing that money is worth more to him that family and his fellow man.

You'll find verge - that the decision on re-structuring was taken at an Exec level in Chicago at the time - well above me.

As you would damn well know.

It was my role as Project Lead to provide the varying options available to streamline the business and provide best value add to the bottom line.

One of which was a move to India. I also offered up 3 other solutions.

I sleep soundly as I did the job instructed to me to do. I might add my role was redundant as a result in Australia.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 3:43pm:

On the contrary, I think though that there exists generational unemployed who don't get off their arses and get a job - simply expecting us to pay for them. They get concessions, they get benefits for families, they get unemployment hand-outs - plenty of things. However not all of that goes where it should. I am all for helping people to look after their families whilst they find work - I am not about helping them to go to the pub and get p1ssed with our money. Hence why I prefer a voucher or stamp system as benefits. That way we can be assured that at least it is targetted to the right areas of spending. - And you're twisting my words on childcare. I said we needed help where others (like you) do not because we have no family network at all to help us.

The difference being you expect the tax payer to pick up the slack.  My wife is a stay at home mum, we dont rely on family to care for our kids.  What we do is take our kids to our family members houses, or they come to ours and we have what is called family time.

So both of us dont have family look after our kids, once again the difference being you want the tax payer to look after yours.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 3:45pm:

You'll find verge - that the decision on re-structuring was taken at an Exec level in Chicago at the time - well above me. As you would damn well know. It was my role as Project Lead to provide the varying options available to streamline the business and provide best value add to the bottom line. One of which was a move to India. I also offered up 3 other solutions. I sleep soundly as I did the job instructed to me to do. I might add my role was redundant as a result in Australia.

Thats right, you do the job, as instructed and as far as you're concerned that makes you a good boy.

I wont do the job at all.  My moral compass doesnt allow me to take orders which means thousands of people wont have a job, all the while taking a heafty pay packet myself.

What was your pay out again Andre, six months, 12 months for how many years with the company.  The the lowly process worker, 12 weeks?

Society is entitled to defend itself from corruption and organized crime that seeks to deny any potion of society economic rights, social security and safety...If we abolished private property we would eliminate organized crime right there...

Verge wrote on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 4:03pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 31st, 2013 at 3:45pm: You'll find verge - that the decision on re-structuring was taken at an Exec level in Chicago at the time - well above me. As you would damn well know. It was my role as Project Lead to provide the varying options available to streamline the business and provide best value add to the bottom line. One of which was a move to India. I also offered up 3 other solutions. I sleep soundly as I did the job instructed to me to do. I might add my role was redundant as a result in Australia. Thats right, you do the job, as instructed and as far as you're concerned that makes you a good boy. I wont do the job at all.  My moral compass doesnt allow me to take orders which means thousands of people wont have a job, all the while taking a heafty pay packet myself. What was your pay out again Andre, six months, 12 months for how many years with the company.  The the lowly process worker, 12 weeks?

I think all in all we treated our Australian employees pretty well.

They received their contracted pay outs, notice period, leave, pro-rated LSL and offered them counselling and re-training.

I was treated just the same and was paid out my contractual obligations, my 3m notice and pro-rated LSL.
I didn't need the re-training etc because I took up a role in Canada.

My wife too is a stay at home verge - difference is we get no break at all like you do with family around to help you.
Hence why we need the childcare help.