Gandalf wrote-

Quote:

All muslims hold their prophet Mohammad in the greatest regard, and consider his example as the greatest example to follow. Link-www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1369558442/19#19

The Quran tells you to follow the example Mohammad set in many verses like this-
www.quran.com/33/21

Can the muslims in this forum clarify whether Mo is a good example for 7th century arabia or an example to follow for all times?

He is a man for all time.

cue the trolling about pedophilia or 20% war booty or something.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 9:43am:

He is a man for all time. cue the trolling about pedophilia or 20% war booty or something.

If he is an example for all time then muslims will have no problems with pedophilia in 2013 and beyond.

He married his first wife Khadija when he was 25 and she was in her 40's, Khadija lived to 65, so much for the myth people married young because they died young in those days.

Was this a result of Mo becoming a self proclaimed prophet from God?

Quote:

Narrated Aisha, Mohammad's child bride and his favourite wife- The Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old,and then she remained with him for nine years until his death. www.sunnah.com/bukhari/67/69

Lots of child brides in the Islamic world, did Nujood Ali become famous for getting divorced at age 10?
www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nujood_Ali

As I've said many other times, if the prophet was a pedophile, he would have jumped into bed with his 6 year old bride as soon as they were betrothed - as well as had a long list of other pre-pubescent brides that he regularly raped.

Instead, he waited 3 years before consumating the marriage - waited for what? Puberty perhaps? And yes, puberty can happen at 9 - but more likely, aisha's figures are off, and she was actually much older.


Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 1:47pm:

He married his first wife Khadija when he was 25 and she was in her 40's, Khadija lived to 65, so much for the myth people married young because they died young in those days.

The Prophet broke many moulds - including marrying an older woman, and particularly, remaining happilly married in a monogamous relationship for 25 years.

Other moulds that he broke was treating his wives with respect and dignity, and most shockingly of all, using them as key advisers in military matters, and highly esteemed community leaders (over both men and women) in their own right.

The Prophet had many brides towards the end of his life, all of which were arranged in the interests of alliances and political stability. There is no shred of evidence that he was some kind of a sexual predator who raped/abused his wives.

Quote:

And yes, puberty can happen at 9 - but more likely, aisha's figures are off, and she was actually much older.

She wasn't Jewish by any chance was she? That would explain her scheming. Either that or she forgot how old she is - not uncommon for Muslims apparently.

Throughout most of history women were married as soon as they reached puberty.


So does this mean that most of men that ever lived were pedophiles?


The modern western standard of 18 is arbitrary and not based on science.



Quote:

Adult Biologically, an adult is a human being or other organism that is of reproductive age (sexual maturity)... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult

Quote:

Throughout most of history women were married as soon as they reached puberty.

So this is another example of Mo setting the bar even lower?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:04pm:

As I've said many other times, if the prophet was a pedophile, he would have jumped into bed with his 6 year old bride as soon as they were betrothed - as well as had a long list of other pre-pubescent brides that he regularly raped. Instead, he waited 3 years before consumating the marriage - waited for what? Puberty perhaps? And yes, puberty can happen at 9 - but more likely, aisha's figures are off, and she was actually much older. Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 1:47pm: He married his first wife Khadija when he was 25 and she was in her 40's, Khadija lived to 65, so much for the myth people married young because they died young in those days. The Prophet broke many moulds - including marrying an older woman, and particularly, remaining happilly married in a monogamous relationship for 25 years. Other moulds that he broke was treating his wives with respect and dignity, and most shockingly of all, using them as key advisers in military matters, and highly esteemed community leaders (over both men and women) in their own right. The Prophet had many brides towards the end of his life, all of which were arranged in the interests of alliances and political stability. There is no shred of evidence that he was some kind of a sexual predator who raped/abused his wives.

The shia claim Mohammad was "thighing" Aisha before he consummated the marriage.The ayatollah Khomeni said thighing(its like a tit bugger yet 6-9 year old children dont have breasts so the penis is rubbed between the thighs) young children is ok becuse Mohammad did it.
I accept there are serious doctrinal differences between the shia and sunni over whose hadith is reliable yet Khomeni wrote a book saying it was ok and he was the Supreme Leader of the Islamic republic of Iran.

Did Mo have a wet dream or was it a revelation from Allah that he would marry the child of his neighbor Abu Bakr?

When muslims realise how repugnant pedophilia is today then out come the she was older excuses which contradict the saheeh hadeeth of Bukhari and Muslim which said she was 9 when that dirty old man porked her.
The Islamic texts say she was 9, do you expect us to believe muslim spin or what is actually written?

Mohammad  had sex with his 9 year old wife, the Quran tells you to follow the example Mo set.

Khadija was a businesswoman,today she would be called a filthy rich cougar for having a white fat dwarf who was much younger for a husband.
Khadija would have kicked Mo's ass to the kerb if he thought he could take another wife while he was with her, she was a rich woman and he had nothing.

Muslims are only allowed to have 4 wives, why was Mo allowed to have twice as many wives as the rest of the muslims, is it good to be a self proclaimed profit?

When Mohammad got busted having sex with his coptic christian sex slave called Maria he promised his wife he would not have sex with his slave girl ever again, when he was busted shortly afterwards having sex with his slave girl again and accused of lying Allah was there in the nick of time with a verse to get him out of trouble with his wives

Quote:

Allah speaking (why does allah have the mentality of a tribal warlord from the Arabian desert?) O Prophet, why do you prohibit (yourself from) what allah has made lawful for you, seeking the approval of your wives?And Allah is forgiving and merciful. www.quran.com/66/1

That Quran verse is Allah telling Mo it is halal to have sex with your female slaves.

Mohammad had a coptic christian sex slave who gave him his only son Ibrahim who died before 2 years of age.
The Quran tells you to follow the example Mohammad set which means owning christian slaves and having sex with them is halal.
Does the Universal declaration of human rights outlaw slavery?

Muhammed had no surviving sons?

Throughout most of history women were married when they reached puberty. Were most of the men who ever lived pedophiles?

Just because some government says that people can't be married before 18 does that make it right?


The prophet did not live with Aisha until she reached puberty.


This was nothing unusual. Women all over the world would marry and live with their husbands when they reached puberty until very recently.


And those who think that puberty starts at 18 are wrong.


http://www.answering-christianity.com/thaigal.jpg

Do you see the word "shocked" there TC? What does it mean to you? That it is normal? They are hardly going to confuse whoever the father is with God's messenger on earth are they?

freediver wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2013 at 9:22pm:

Do you see the word "shocked" there TC? What does it mean to you? That it is normal? They are hardly going to confuse whoever the father is with God's messenger on earth are they?

If you would like to look at it in a scientific rational manner then you will find that girls reaching puberty at 9 is considered within the normal range.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here TC. You have made several similar claims and I have asked you to elaborate. Spell it out for us.

Baron, Khomenei's "thighing" claim seems to be a fake.

King Richard II, a devout Christian, married Isabella of Valois when she was six.

Peter Freedman wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2013 at 6:29pm:

King Richard II, a devout Christian, married Isabella of Valois when she was six.

How many people think king Richard 2 was a perfect role model to follow for all time, is it just unemployed kiwi immigrants like you?

People get killed for insulting Mohammad they have the death penalty for that in some Islamic countries, does anyone get hurt/imprisoned/killed for insulting King Richard the 2nd in the year 2013?

Oh, dear, you do get personal very quickly, don't you?

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2013 at 10:18am:

Baron, Khomenei's "thighing" claim seems to be a fake.

Yeah muslims have also said Prophet Mo prescribing the drinking of camel urine was fake, i have always asked why muslims can never agree on anything from the niqab to terror if Islam was perfected like allah claims in the Quran, you and others have dodged this question.
There is a hadith with Safiyya about the veil, if she wears one she will be a muslim if not then she will be his slave girl, does that verse prove the veil was used in Mohammad's time and not an imported custom as some muslims claim?

As for Khomeni if you search for it you get the typical muslim confusion with half saying bullshit then others saying it is true.

Here is a 100% Islamic link for you Gandalf about Khomeni, Go to the section "The imam has mutah with a small child

Quote:

Indeed the ruling of having mutah with a small child is permissible but only with fondling,kisses and squeezing with the thighs,as for intercourse,indeed she is not strong enough to do it. [url]www.theunjustmedia.com/Islamic Perspectives/March13/"Why I Left Shi'ah"--Sayyid Husain Al-Musawi.htm[/url]

For some reason link not working yet google gets a link that works by searching for author Sayyid Husain Al Musawi and clicking unjustmedia link.

You could google-Saudi/Yemeni child bride which are quite common today to see how the sunni follow the example of Mohammad by marrying children.

Girls who have reached puberty are not allowed to play with dolls in Islam, does this hadith confirm Aisha was prepubescent when she was taken to Mo's house as his bride at age 9?

Quote:

taken to his house as a bride when she was 9,and her dolls were with her www.sunnah.com/muslim/16/83

Even Bukhari who is pretty solid for the sunni side says it is haram for a girl who has reached puberty to have dolls and Aisha had not reached puberty
www.sunnah.com/bukhari/78/157

The Quran tells you to follow the example Mohammad set, muslims say Mohammad is the perfect role model,Mohammad banged his prepubescent wife.

Muslims will claim Aisha reached puberty which is refuted by their own texts.

Khomenei, and his buddies are shia. 90% of Muslims are follow the mainstream sunni branch of Islam and would consider Khomenei to be a sick joke.


Camel urine was prescribed for a specific illness. This should not really be surprising considering that scientists have discovered many therapeutic properties in various animal's urine. Perhaps it would surprise you to know that many modern pharmaceutical products are derived from animal urine.



The niqab or face covering was only ordered for the prophet's wives due to their high esteemed place. In the time of the prophet, niqab was considered optional but praiseworthy for women. Most of the Muslim women did not wear it. There are hadeeth mentioning that Muslim women did not wear face coverings in the time of the prophet.



As for dolls, there are hadeeth saying that Aisha had dolls when she was  17 or 18. Generally, statues, pictures, and 2D or 3D objects with faces are not permitted in Islam. The 'dolls' kept by Aisha were made from wool and did not have clearly defined faces, so the issue of permissibility is a bit of grey area in Islamic jurisprudence. Aisha having dolls should not be take as indicator of puberty being reached or not reached considering that she still had the dolls when she was about 18 years old.

Quote:

Generally, statues, pictures, and 2D or 3D objects with faces are not permitted in Islam.

Why not?

I thought it was just Muhammed you weren't supposed to draw a picture of.

freediver wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2013 at 10:24pm:

Why not? I thought it was just Muhammed you weren't supposed to draw a picture of.

Definitely not allowed for any of the prophets, and probably not any one else either.

Reason being that when people make images and statues of people they revere, there is a good chance they will start worshiping them as idols - which is the greatest sin in islam. Thats why islamic art is strictly abstract.

So how does that work with photos?

FD, whats forbidden is idol worship and/or holding mere mortals up as partners to God. Photos, portraits etc are not forbidden per se. However muslims are acutely aware of the danger of turning those into objects of worship. The prophets are understandably a prime candidate here - which is why I believe they have been singled out specifically.

Photos of your children on the wall, or sending photos of your holiday to friends and family is obviously fine.

What if Osama is in the background going for a swim? Do you have to burn the photo?

thanks FD. Nice trying to have a sensible discussion with you.  :P

Can you give an example of someone you revere?

um.. the prophet Muhammad maybe?  :-/

I mean someone who is not a religious leader.

I don't know - Gough Whitlam, Bob Brown...

I certainly wouldn't hang their picture up on my wall at home.

I cringe whenever I see places like Damascus with giant portraits of Bashar Al Assad looking sagely. Even for most non-muslims that would come across as a bit creepy I would imagine.

True Colours wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2013 at 10:05pm:

Khomenei, and his buddies are shia. 90% of Muslims are follow the mainstream sunni branch of Islam and would consider Khomenei to be a sick joke. Camel urine was prescribed for a specific illness. This should not really be surprising considering that scientists have discovered many therapeutic properties in various animal's urine. Perhaps it would surprise you to know that many modern pharmaceutical products are derived from animal urine. The niqab or face covering was only ordered for the prophet's wives due to their high esteemed place. In the time of the prophet, niqab was considered optional but praiseworthy for women. Most of the Muslim women did not wear it. There are hadeeth mentioning that Muslim women did not wear face coverings in the time of the prophet. As for dolls, there are hadeeth saying that Aisha had dolls when she was  17 or 18. Generally, statues, pictures, and 2D or 3D objects with faces are not permitted in Islam. The 'dolls' kept by Aisha were made from wool and did not have clearly defined faces, so the issue of permissibility is a bit of grey area in Islamic jurisprudence. Aisha having dolls should not be take as indicator of puberty being reached or not reached considering that she still had the dolls when she was about 18 years old.

The shia are muslims, if you claim the LRA and Khony represent christians then surely the Islamic republic of Iran represents Islam.
The shia have Political Islam ,ruled by the bearded mullah's, do the sunnis have Islamic rule or are they impotent compared to the shia on this issue?

Mo prescribed camel urine for sickness?, the medical profession would call that quackery.
Can you name 1 medicine that is derived from 100% urine?

Quote:

It was narrated from Annas that some people from Urainah came to the messenger of Allah but they were averse to the climate of al Madina He said- "Why dont you go to a flock of camels of ours,and drink their milk and urine" And they did that. www.sunnah.com/urn/1275480

So what sickness did mo prescribe camel urine for?

We could search the hadeeth for verses on camel urine, there are more than 1-
www.sunnah.com/search/camel-urine

We could listen to Sheikh Munajid who says drinking camel urine can cure cancer and even baldness-
www.islamqa.com/en/83423

I reckon these guys are taking the (camel) piss out of Islam-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn7JaB9pqew

Mohammad prescribed camel urine, a clear case of Mo preaching some quackery.

Why is a niqab praiseworthy, would it lead to a vitamin D deficiency which affects many Saudi women? (try google for saudi woman vitamin D)

Islamic ideology does not allow girls who have reached puberty to play with dolls, Aisha had her dolls with her when she went to the prophets house as a bride,Bukhari even says playing with dolls is haram for girls who have reached puberty
Is this the verse  you are trying to misrepresent?

Quote:

Narrated Aisha- When the messenger of Allah arrived after the expedition to Tabuk or Khaybar, the draught raised an end of a curtain which was hung in front of a store room revealing some dolls which belonged to her. Among them he saw a horse with wings made of rags. www.sunnah.com/search/dolls

There is a verse saying Aisha had dolls hidden in a store room, there are no verses that indicate Aisha played with dolls after reaching puberty.

Aisha had a horse doll with wings, is that where Mo got the Idea for a flying horse to visit a masjid that had not even been built?
The deeper you look the more absurd Islam gets-
www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buraq

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 2:45pm:

I don't know - Gough Whitlam, Bob Brown... I certainly wouldn't hang their picture up on my wall at home. I cringe whenever I see places like Damascus with giant portraits of Bashar Al Assad looking sagely. Even for most non-muslims that would come across as a bit creepy I would imagine.

I thought you just said "there is a good chance they will start worshiping them as idols". So which is it? Creepy, or some kind of unstoppable spiritual force?

unstoppable spiritual force? Where did you get that?

And yeah its creepy - don't know why you find that confusing.

Quote:

Reason being that when people make images and statues of people they revere, there is a good chance they will start worshiping them as idols

its a simple question FD. I never referred to any "unstoppable spiritual force". Where did you get that?

Also why is it confusing if I say its creepy?

I just showed you where it was from.

no you didn't.

Nowhere does it say it was some stupid spiritual force - what is wrong with you?

I was trying t get you to explain the difference between most muslims finding it creepy and "a good chance they will start worshiping them as idols".

ahh I see now. Reading comprehension again.

I said even non muslims would find it creepy, and most muslims would be disgusted by it.

Those fawning over Assad though no doubt see nothing wrong with it.

Do they worship pictures of Assad?

Probably.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 2:45pm:

I don't know - Gough Whitlam, Bob Brown... I certainly wouldn't hang their picture up on my wall at home.

Gissa hug, bro.

Are muslims for some reason particularly susceptible to worshiping pictures and statues?

its a muslim gene FD :P

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2013 at 9:09pm:

Even Bukhari who is pretty solid for the sunni side says it is haram for a girl who has reached puberty to have dolls www.sunnah.com/bukhari/78/157

The opinion that you have referenced is written in brackets and comes from the book Fath-ul-Bari.


Fath-ul-Bari was written by Ibn Hajr Asqalani, who finished the book in 1428 - nearly 600 years after Bukhari wrote his book on prophetic narrations.


What you have presented is merely the opinion of Asqalani. It is not a hadeeth, and does not come from Bukhari.

True Colours wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 11:10pm:

What you have presented is merely the opinion of Asqalani. It is not a hadeeth, and does not come from Bukhari.

Word.

And whats this guy smoking? Dolls forbidden?? Rubbish. Islamic scholars are unanimous that dolls are perfectly fine for children.

FD asked;

Quote:

Are muslims for some reason particularly susceptible to worshiping pictures and statues?

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 10:07pm:

its a muslim gene FD :P

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 10:02am:

As a matter of fact I did watch it. The last 30 minutes was considerably darker than the rest. Yadda wrote on Aug 5th, 2013 at 8:59am: the movie seemed to be a serious portrayal of a group of people who were [in their own minds] behaving 'seriously', if ludicrously Well thats what makes it a spoof doesn't it? The idea that the guy who was carrying explosives and tripped over a wall blowing himself up along with a sheep - would die as a martyr because he took out some "essential infrastructure" (sheep) - is precisely funny because they [moslems] convinced themselves that was true. Dark funny - but still funny.

ALSO, when moslems insist that;

'Mohammed was a prophet of Allah, and a virtuous man.'


This is proof, that that 'conviction' among moslems, is something peculiar to the moslem genome.        :Pi



All reasonable persons [upon scrutiny of ISLAMIC texts], recognise that the person referred to as 'Mohammed' was nothing more than a charismatic, ruthless, carnal, narcissistic warlord.

An extra-ordinary person, yes.

But not a person who could be regarded [by any rational person], as a virtuous man.


Can the stuff that makes us, define us?

Yadda wrote on Jan 16^th, 2013 at 1:03am:

Quote: DNA is influneced by Words and Frequencies By Grazyna Fosar and Franz Bludorf DNA Can Be Influenced And Reprogrammed By Words And Frequencies Russian DNA Discoveries The human DNA is a biological Internet and superior in many aspects to the artificial one. The latest Russian scientific research directly or indirectly explains phenomena such as clairvoyance, intuition, spontaneous and remote acts of healing, self healing, affirmation techniques, unusual light/auras around people (namely spiritual masters), the mind’s influence on weather patterns and much more. In addition, there is evidence for a whole new type of medicine in which DNA can be influenced and reprogrammed by words and frequencies WITHOUT cutting out and replacing single genes. Only 10% of our DNA is being used for building proteins. It is this subset of DNA that is of interest to western researchers and is being examined and categorized. The other 90% are considered "junk DNA. The Russian researchers, however, convinced that nature was not dumb, joined linguists and geneticists in a venture to explore those 90% of "junk DNA". Their results, findings and conclusions are simply revolutionary!

Truth is stranger than we could imagine.

We humans imagine that we are intelligent [and that we are highly accomplished creatures], but the truth is that we [human beings] know almost nothing about our own circumstances, in this 'reality'.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 6^th, 2013 at 8:13am:

True Colours wrote on Aug 5th, 2013 at 11:10pm: What you have presented is merely the opinion of Asqalani. It is not a hadeeth, and does not come from Bukhari. Word. And whats this guy smoking? Dolls forbidden?? Rubbish. Islamic scholars are unanimous that dolls are perfectly fine for children.

Yes dolls are fine for children,Aisha was a child playing with dolls when Mo broke her in.

Girls who have reached puberty are not allowed to play with dolls is this in dispute?

I wonder if the Geckos broke a treaty with muslims.

Quote:

Allah's apostle commanded the killing of geckos, he called them noxious little creatures. www.sunnah.com/urn/255620

Mohammad condoned child abuse, he even commanded it-

Quote:

The messenger of allah said- Command your children to pray when they become 7 years old, and beat them for it (prayer) when they become 10 years old. www.sunnah.com/abudawud/2/105

Mo didnt like dogs-

Quote:

Allah's messenger ordered that dogs should be killed. www.sunnah.com/bukhari/59/129

Mo on Jews and christians-

Quote:

Allah's messenger said- Do not greet the jews and christian before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it. www.sunnah.com/urn/253890

Allah allows muslims to steal from non muslims as long as he gets a 20% cut,
www.quran.com/8/41

Quote:

The prophet cut off the hand of a thief for stealing a shield worth 3 dirhams. sunnah.com/bukhari/86/26

Mohammad ordered apostates to be killed, Islamic countries have the death penalty for apostasy yet muslims will spin that no compulsion in religion verse to deceive the gullible.

Quote:

The prophet said- If somebody (a muslim) discards his religion, kill him. www.sunnah.com/bukhari/56/226

Is this how Mohammad found some brides,do muslims claim  it is a love story?

Quote:

The messenger of allah made a raid upon the Banu Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water. He killed those who defended themselves from muslims and imprisoned others (women and children). On that very day he captured Juwairiya bint al Harith. www.sunnah.com/muslim/32/1

The Quran tells you to follow the example Mo set, Mo didnt set the bar very high for muslims.

muhammad was a coward and hypocrite, he did not believe what he preached to muslims, he merely used muslims for his own despicable ends

Quote:

Reason being that when people make images and statues of people they revere, there is a good chance they will start worshiping them as idols

Gandalf, do you actually believe that there is a good chance they will start worshiping them as idols, or were you just informing us of the reasons that are given?

moses wrote on Aug 6^th, 2013 at 4:41pm:

muhammad was a coward and hypocrite, he did not believe what he preached to muslims, he merely used muslims for his own despicable ends

moses,

I feel inspired    :)  , to say;


Moslems are a cowards and hypocrites, moslems do not believe what ISLAM preaches [to moslems].

The tribe of 'moslems' merely use/exploit ISLAM [and its doctrines of aggression] for their own despicable ends.i
If moslems were NOT cowards and hypocrites, moslems would speak truthfully, and not behave like kuffar!!!


"Dear muslim, YOU are the kuffar"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1229682951/0#0

Quote:

Dear muslim, YOU are the kuffar, YOU are the unbeliever. You who embrace ISLAM, your own lies and deception, have become a witness against you, before God. You muslims insist that ONLY muslims are the 'properly guided'. Is he who is on a path of lies and deception, 'properly guided'?? AN EXPLANATION OF THE WORD 'KUFFAR'... "kuffar" = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuffar

n.b.
"kuffar" = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."

AGAIN;

"kuffar" = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."i
All moslems, are despicable, lying, deceitful, kuffar!!!

All of them, imo.iGoogle;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit


Google;
Taqiyya and Kitman, islam

Yadda wrote on Aug 6^th, 2013 at 7:28pm:

Google; taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit

Ok so I googled it.



Quote:

...Taqiyya was developed to protect Shi'ites...In the Shi'a view, taqiyya is lawful in situations where there is overwhelming danger of loss of life or property and where no danger to religion would occur thereby. The term taqiyya does not exist in Sunni jurisprudence. ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya

Does not exist in Sunni jurisprudence. Who are these sunnis? Only 90% of Muslims.






Even the shia are only supposed to lie if they are threatened


Quote:

In the Shi'a view, taqiyya is lawful in situations where there is overwhelming danger of loss of life

You must think that very deceptive Yadda. Your government wants to kill someone for their beliefs, so they change their belief. That would be very frustrating for someone like you. How dare they deny the government a chance to kill them.

Abu is a Sunni. He explained it like this:

War is deception. Basically, anything goes.

The west has been at war with the Muslim world for over a century.

It's a bit like what Gandalf and TC have been explaining with Muhammed's career as a highway robber. They were at war, apparently. And sure enough, the people they were robbing eventually attacked them. It only took a few years, which proves they were "hell bent" on wiping them all out.

True Colours wrote on Aug 6^th, 2013 at 9:12pm:

Yadda wrote on Aug 6th, 2013 at 7:28pm: Google; taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit Ok so I googled it. Quote: ...Taqiyya was developed to protect Shi'ites...In the Shi'a view, taqiyya is lawful in situations where there is overwhelming danger of loss of life or property and where no danger to religion would occur thereby. The term taqiyya does not exist in Sunni jurisprudence. ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya Does not exist in Sunni jurisprudence. Who are these sunnis? Only 90% of Muslims. Even the shia are only supposed to lie if they are threatened [quote]In the Shi'a view, taqiyya is lawful in situations where there is overwhelming danger of loss of life

You must think that very deceptive Yadda. Your government wants to kill someone for their beliefs, so they change their belief. That would be very frustrating for someone like you. How dare they deny the government a chance to kill them.


[/quote]


Yadda paraphrases TC's post;

True_Colours says, Sunni moslems don't 'taqiyya'.







Yadda says, TC's post is more moslem taqiyya.

True Colours wrote on Aug 6^th, 2013 at 9:12pm:

Yadda wrote on Aug 6th, 2013 at 7:28pm: Google; taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit Even the shia are only supposed to lie if they are threatened Quote: In the Shi'a view, taqiyya is lawful in situations where there is overwhelming danger of loss of life You must think that very deceptive Yadda. Your government wants to kill someone for their beliefs, so they change their belief. That would be very frustrating for someone like you. How dare they deny the government a chance to kill them.

Contrast the above statements by True_Colours, about why moslems use taqiyya, with;

"The Koran is our constitution, the Prophet is our leader, jihad is our path and death in the name of Allah is our goal."
Morsi - Recently elected ISLAMIST PRESIDENT of Egypt.




Please watch this YT...
Mohamed Morsi-The Koran is our constitution -The Prophet Muhammad is our leader Jihad is our path
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8NtiUMOFFg






The fundamental and primary moslem mantra declared by moslems is that they, moslems, want to die, for Allah, and for ISLAM.

But TC tells us that, moslems need taqiyya, to protect themselves from persecution, persecution because they are moslems






CONCLUSION;
Something about the differing things which moslems tell us [about moslems], doesn't quite ring true.

Duh!

Yadda wrote on Aug 6^th, 2013 at 10:08pm:

But TC tells us that, moslems need taqiyya, to protect themselves from persecution, persecution because they are moslems

Isaid no such thing.


Seems that it is the Islam-bashers who are practicing taqiyya  with all these lies.



Taqiyya is not an Islamic practice. It was invented by the apostate ayaollahs of the shia sect.


90% of Muslims are orthodox mainstream sunni, and have nothing to with Taqiyya.




In fact Sunni Muslims follow hadeeth, the most authenic book of which is Bukhari:


Narrated 'Ali: The Prophet said, "Do not tell a lie against me for whoever tells a lie against me then he will surely enter the Hell-fire." 
- Bukhari


A sunni Muslim is forbidden to lie aout Islam.

True Colours wrote on Aug 7^th, 2013 at 12:32am:

A sunni Muslim is forbidden to lie aout Islam.

Quote:

Yadda paraphrases TC's post; True_Colours says, Sunni moslems don't 'taqiyya'. Yadda says, TC's post is more moslem taqiyya.

i

True_Colours,

yadda said;

Quote:

.......when their deceit is exposed, moslems will barefacedly deny the evidence of their deceit.

e.g.
THE LYING, DECEITFUL, 'MAINSTREAM' SUNNI MOSLEM COMMUNITY IN THE UK,
are using sophistry and blatant unashamed deceit to deceive local non-moslem host communities, about the nature of ISLAM/moslems....


EXAMPLE #1,

The Muslim Council of Britain [which represents all British 'mainstream' moslems] declares on its website that the moslem community, condemns extremism and violence....


Quote:

Rejecting Terror Thursday, 11 April 2013 Muslims everywhere consider all acts of terrorism that aims to murder and maim innocent human beings utterly reprehensible and abhorrent. There is no theological basis whatsoever for such acts in our faith. The very meaning of the word 'Islam' is peace. It rejects terror and promotes peace and harmony.

http://www.mcb.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2307:mcbnewstemplate&catid=82:mcb-news
http://www.mcb.org.uk/article_detail.php?article=announcement-656




YET, FROM ISLAM'S PRIMARY THEOLOGICAL TEXT.....


"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123


"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111iEXAMPLE #2,

Speaking in the UK, publicly, AND THEN PRIVATELY, regarding the London 7/7 bombing victims.


Quote:

"......In public interviews Bakri condemned the killing of all innocent civilians. Later when he addressed his own followers he explained that he had in fact been referring only to Muslims as only they were innocent: Yes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1724541,00.html

n.b.
This moslem declared to the broader community that moslems condemned the killing of all innocent civilians.
BUT LATER IT WAS REVEALED, that that moslem omitted to declare that moslems in the UK, DO NOT regard the members of the broader UK community as innocent civilians.









EXAMPLE #3,

a deceit, that is endorsed by 'mainstream' ISLAM, as per revealed by this moslem scholar......


Quote:

Live in peace till strong enough to wage jihad, says UK Deoband scholar to Muslims London, Sept.8 [2007] A Deobandi scholar believes Muslims should preach peace till they are strong enough to undertake a jihad, or a holy war. Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani was quoted by the BBC as saying that Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, only until they gain enough power to engage in battle. A former Sharia judge in Pakistan's Supreme Court, 64-year-old Usmani, is...a regular visitor to Britain. Polite and softly spoken.... He agreed that it was wrong to suggest that the entire non-Muslim world was intent on destroying Islam, but justifies an aggressive military jihad as a means of establishing global Islamic supremacy.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2409833.ece




n.b.
Moslems are permitted to declare to non-moslems, that moslems/ISLAM intends to always have a peaceful relationship with non-moslem host communities [e.g. 'Muslims should preach peace'] - when all of the time, ALL moslems KNOW that what they are declaring, IS A LIE.







+++


CONCLUSIONS ???
ALL MOSLEMS LIE, almost all of the time, whenever moslems are communicating with un-informed and ignorant NON-moslems - about the nature of ISLAM.


AGAIN, JUST FOR CLARITY;
ALL MOSLEMS LIE, almost all of the time.




Google;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit


Google;
Taqiyya and Kitman, islam

AGAIN, JUST FOR CLARITY;
ALL MOSLEMS LIE, almost all of the time.




Google;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit


Google;
Taqiyya and Kitman, islam






Quote:

There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman.  These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them. ...... Additional Notes: Muslims are allowed to lie to unbelievers in order to defeat them.  The two forms are: Taqiyya - Saying something that isn't true. Kitman - Lying by omission.  An example would be when Muslim apologists quote only a fragment of verse 5:32 (that if anyone kills "it shall be as if he had killed all mankind") while neglecting to mention that the rest of the verse (and the next) mandate murder in undefined cases of "corruption" and "mischief."

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/011-taqiyya.htm

There is no taqiyya in mainstream Islam.


Taqiya is an invention of crazy shi-ite ayatollahs in Iran.

True Colours wrote on Aug 7^th, 2013 at 9:24am:

There is no taqiyya in mainstream Islam.

AGAIN;

Quote:

Yadda paraphrases TC's post; True_Colours says, Sunni moslems don't 'taqiyya'. Yadda says, TC's post is more moslem taqiyya.

i

Google;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit


Google;
Taqiyya and Kitman, islamiQuote:

There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman.  These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them. ...... Additional Notes: Muslims are allowed to lie to unbelievers in order to defeat them.  The two forms are: Taqiyya - Saying something that isn't true. Kitman - Lying by omission.  An example would be when Muslim apologists quote only a fragment of verse 5:32 (that if anyone kills "it shall be as if he had killed all mankind") while neglecting to mention that the rest of the verse (and the next) mandate murder in undefined cases of "corruption" and "mischief."

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/011-taqiyya.htm

p.s.

True Colours,

Your own behaviour defines you as a Kafir, too!!!

You are a Kafir.

True Colours,

It is the hot place for you!

You have been fooled, by SATAN.




"Satan makes them promises, and creates in them false desires; but satan's promises are nothing but deception.
They (his dupes) will have their dwelling in Hell, and from it they will find no way of escape."
Koran 4.120



"Then, on the Day of Judgment,.....Then would they offer submission (with the pretence), "We did no evil (knowingly)." (The angels will reply), "Nay, but verily [God] knoweth all that ye did;"
Koran 16.27

AGAIN;

"kuffar" = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."i
All moslems, are despicable, lying, deceitful, kuffar!!!

All of them, imo.iGoogle;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit


Google;
Taqiyya and Kitman, islam







+++

BUT moslems refuse to acknowledge these evidences against them, and against ISLAM.

And that [refusal to acknowledge truth], is what confirms that ALL moslems are Kuffar !!!




EVERY MOSLEM is, "...a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."



Hot place!

I am having a hard time thinking who is more important, Muslims or boat people. These are the tough decisions progressives have to make.

Quote:

Taqiyya is not an Islamic practice. It was invented by the apostate ayaollahs of the shia sect.

Why did they need to lie? To avoid being slaughtered the Sunni way?

Does Sunni Islam permit you to spread lies about the fundamental nature of Sunni Islam in the context of war?

Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Aug 7^th, 2013 at 12:00pm:

I am having a hard time thinking who is more important, Muslims or boat people. These are the tough decisions progressives have to make.

Is there any difference?

freediver wrote on Aug 7^th, 2013 at 12:27pm:

Does Sunni Islam permit you to spread lies about the fundamental nature of Sunni Islam in the context of war?

Mainstream Islam does not allow lying about Islam.



It would be a major sin to lie about Islam.

Yadda wrote on Aug 7^th, 2013 at 9:57am:

True Colours, It is the hot place for you! You have been fooled, by SATAN. "Satan makes them promises, and creates in them false desires; but satan's promises are nothing but deception. They (his dupes) will have their dwelling in Hell, and from it they will find no way of escape." Koran 4.120 "Then, on the Day of Judgment,.....Then would they offer submission (with the pretence), "We did no evil (knowingly)." (The angels will reply), "Nay, but verily [God] knoweth all that ye did;" Koran 16.27

Actually it refers to people like you.

Satan makes you believe in a bible full of mistakes, contradictions, lies and fabrications.

Then when people like you are burning in hell, satan will come to you and say, "I didn't not force you to follow me, you followed your own desires".

Torpedo wrote on Aug 7^th, 2013 at 3:42pm:

Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Aug 7th, 2013 at 12:00pm: I am having a hard time thinking who is more important, Muslims or boat people. These are the tough decisions progressives have to make. Is there any difference?

Good point. This makes it easier for a progressive like me to make a decision. If they are both boat people and Muslim then they couldn't possibly be bad people. Maybe I could elevate Muslim boat people above non-Muslims boat people. This definitely coincides with my ideology.

Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Aug 7^th, 2013 at 5:46pm:

Torpedo wrote on Aug 7th, 2013 at 3:42pm: Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Aug 7th, 2013 at 12:00pm: I am having a hard time thinking who is more important, Muslims or boat people. These are the tough decisions progressives have to make. Is there any difference? Good point. This makes it easier for a progressive like me to make a decision. If they are both boat people and Muslim then they couldn't possibly be bad people. Maybe I could elevate Muslim boat people above non-Muslims boat people. This definitely coincides with my ideology.

What if they come as Muslim boat people but then apostatise outa Islam once they are in.
Is that queue jumping?  Or if they come as non-Muslim boat people and convert to Islam while in detention. Is that credible or is that queue jumping?

It seems that we can't believe them when they say they are Muslims or when they say they are not Muslims. You'll end up being wracists and phobic whatever way you look at it. A very unique demographic, that.

True Colours wrote on Aug 7^th, 2013 at 3:58pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 7th, 2013 at 12:27pm: Does Sunni Islam permit you to spread lies about the fundamental nature of Sunni Islam in the context of war? Mainstream Islam does not allow lying about Islam. It would be a major sin to lie about Islam.

Even in the context of war?

True Colours wrote on Aug 7^th, 2013 at 3:58pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 7th, 2013 at 12:27pm: Does Sunni Islam permit you to spread lies about the fundamental nature of Sunni Islam in the context of war? Mainstream Islam does not allow lying about Islam. It would be a major sin to lie about Islam.

So what is Dar al Harb , is that lands where muslim law in not in force or lands of war?

Quote:

The profit said ( allah demands 20% of all war booty)- War is deceit. www.sunnah.com/bukhari/56/237

Mohammad was a bullshit artist who told whopping great lies.

This muslim is evidence that muslims lie about Islam to sell it to the gullible, he confirms the death penalty for apostasy at the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKs7oi_-NUo

When the topic is Islam i suggest people turn their bullshit detectors on , muslims speak fluent bullshit

shockresist wrote on Aug 7^th, 2013 at 4:53pm:

Satan makes you believe in a bible full of mistakes, contradictions, lies and fabrications. Then when people like you are burning in hell,

Do you realise there are a large number of people in Australia who have No Religion?
Those with no religion are growing in numbers much faster than any religion, what relevance does the buy-bull have to those with no religion?
www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_Australia

The Quran is full of contradictions,lies,ignorance,superstition and fabrications, it is a book of fairy tales (jinns...lmao at stupid muslims. ;D) that does not contain any useful information.

Quote:

Then do they not reflect upon the Quran,If it had been from any other than allah,they would have found within much contradiction. www.quran.com/4/82

The fine print says the Quran is not from allah yet muslims are too stupid to realise this.

As for your holy books they say satan urinates in the ears of those who miss morning prayers.

Quote:

A person was mentioned before the profit (pbuh) and he was told that he kept sleeping till morning and had not got up for the prayer. The Prophet said,Satan urinated in his ears. www.sunnah.com/bukhari/19/25

If you dont worship Mohammad's allah you will burn in the hellfire, muslims fear the hellfire because they are stupid and believe in fairy tales, if they do worship allah and follow Mo's example (quran 33;21) then they get a Islamic afterlife with rivers of wine and a whole heap of houris to have sex with which would be like owning a whorehouse combined with a pub.
If wine is allowed in the Islamic afterlife then maybe ass to mouth is ok too,is there a verse saying these houris will have poo that does not stink?

Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Aug 7^th, 2013 at 5:46pm:

Torpedo wrote on Aug 7th, 2013 at 3:42pm: Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Aug 7th, 2013 at 12:00pm: I am having a hard time thinking who is more important, Muslims or boat people. These are the tough decisions progressives have to make. Is there any difference? Good point. This makes it easier for a progressive like me to make a decision. If they are both boat people and Muslim then they couldn't possibly be bad people. Maybe I could elevate Muslim boat people above non-Muslims boat people. This definitely coincides with my ideology.

Nice_One_Macca,

You are a moslem.




Who is a moslem ?

A person who has a moslem heart, is a moslem.

And all moslems are Kuffar.



http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1375098020/51#51

Soren wrote on Aug 7^th, 2013 at 5:56pm:

Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Aug 7th, 2013 at 5:46pm: Torpedo wrote on Aug 7th, 2013 at 3:42pm: Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Aug 7th, 2013 at 12:00pm: I am having a hard time thinking who is more important, Muslims or boat people. These are the tough decisions progressives have to make. Is there any difference? Good point. This makes it easier for a progressive like me to make a decision. If they are both boat people and Muslim then they couldn't possibly be bad people. Maybe I could elevate Muslim boat people above non-Muslims boat people. This definitely coincides with my ideology. What if they come as Muslim boat people but then apostatise outa Islam once they are in. Is that queue jumping?  Or if they come as non-Muslim boat people and convert to Islam while in detention. Is that credible or is that queue jumping? It seems that we can't believe them when they say they are Muslims or when they say they are not Muslims. You'll end up being wracists and phobic whatever way you look at it. A very unique demographic, that.

Our best course, imo, is to continue, at every opportunity, to expose the despicable behaviour and deceit of moslems.

To expose the truth about what ISLAM is ['politically'], i.e. a lying fascist political philosophy, masquerading as a religion.

To keep exposing the blatant falsehoods and deceit of ISLAM/moslems at every opportunity.

To keep exposing the unreasoning and unreasonable and blatant denials of ISLAM/moslems - whenever their lies and deceits are exposed.iQuote:

ISLAM is a lie and truth is killing it. Posted by: Alaskan http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/023681.php#c602782

Yadda wrote on Aug 8^th, 2013 at 10:05am:

Our best course, imo, is to continue, at every opportunity, to expose the despicable behaviour and deceit of moslems. To expose the truth about what ISLAM is ['politically'], i.e. a lying fascist political philosophy, masquerading as a religion. To keep exposing the blatant falsehoods and deceit of ISLAM/moslems at every opportunity. To keep exposing the unreasoning and unreasonable and blatant denials of ISLAM/moslems - whenever their lies and deceits are exposed.

Did i mention also, that [all] moslems are impersonating 'believers' ???

:)          ;)           :)








Mohammad -the role model for muslims
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1375098020/51#51


"Dear muslim, YOU are the kuffar"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1229682951/0#0

Soren wrote on Aug 7^th, 2013 at 5:56pm:

Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Aug 7th, 2013 at 5:46pm: Torpedo wrote on Aug 7th, 2013 at 3:42pm: Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Aug 7th, 2013 at 12:00pm: I am having a hard time thinking who is more important, Muslims or boat people. These are the tough decisions progressives have to make. Is there any difference? Good point. This makes it easier for a progressive like me to make a decision. If they are both boat people and Muslim then they couldn't possibly be bad people. Maybe I could elevate Muslim boat people above non-Muslims boat people. This definitely coincides with my ideology. What if they come as Muslim boat people but then apostatise outa Islam once they are in. Is that queue jumping?  Or if they come as non-Muslim boat people and convert to Islam while in detention. Is that credible or is that queue jumping? It seems that we can't believe them when they say they are Muslims or when they say they are not Muslims. You'll end up being wracists and phobic whatever way you look at it. A very unique demographic, that.

I don't like to think about these things too much. I just make sure I feel a warm, inner buzz when I see non-white boat people entering our borders.

Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Aug 8^th, 2013 at 9:55pm:

I don't like to think ...

Nobody is arguing that point.

True Colours wrote on Aug 7^th, 2013 at 3:58pm:

Mainstream Islam does not allow lying about Islam. It would be a major sin to lie about Islam.

Abu and Falah said Taqiyya was a shia concept and nothing to do with Sunni/Salafi Islam.

They also pointed out a Mutah marriage was shia, the sunni/salafi call it Misyar marriage.

The bullshit flows thick and fast from muslims, if Islam was the truth then why do they need to bullshit about it?

Quote:

The messenger of Allah said- He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information is not a liar www.sunnah.com/bukhari/53/3

Bukhari is pretty solid with the sunni/salafi side of Islam, the shia reject Bukhari.

Allah allows muslims to tell lies to peddle their religion.

So let's get this straight. Islam only permits deception in the context of war, and also as a means to achieve peace?

freediver wrote on Aug 15^th, 2013 at 8:00pm:

So let's get this straight. Islam only permits deception in the context of war, and also as a means to achieve peace?

You are also allowed to lie to your wife/wives.

As Mohammad said: If you invent good information you are not a liar.

Quote:

The messenger of Allah had a female slave with whom he had intercourse, but Aisha and Hafsa would not leave him alone until he said that she was forbidden for him,Then allah revealed (how convenient..lmao at stupid muslims). -O Prophet! why did you forbid what Allah has allowed to you... www.sunnah.com/nasai/36/21

2 of Mohammad's wives did not like him having sex with his coptic christian slave girl they asked him to stop banging her, then a miracle occurs allah gives a revelation to get Mo out of trouble with his wives.

Quote:

O prophet,why did you prohibit (yourself from) what allah has made lawful for you, seeking the approval of your wives? www.quran.com/66/1

Since Mo had a christian slave who he had sex with that makes sex with slaves halal for muslim men,the Quran tells you to follow Mohammad's example-

Quote:

The case of a man who had intercourse with the slave woman of his wife was referred to the messenger of allah, and he did not stipulate any legal punishment for him. www.sunnah.com/urn/1268690

Quote:

The prophet said- None of you should flog his wife as he flogs a slave and then have sexual intercourse with her in the last part of the day. www.sunnah.com/bukhari/67/138

Quote:

Islam allows a man to have intercourse with his slave woman,whether he has a wife or wives or is not married. www.islamqa.com/en/10382

You seem obsessed with anything to do with sex. Maybe you need to find a fulfilling marriage so you won't waste so much time thinking about other peoples sex lives. ;D

Islam is obsessed with sex.