http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gYq2DQG1zI


halal is sharia. boycott it if you think killing animals slowly and painfully is barbaric.

LOL What a nutter! ;D ;D ;D

He better boycott Kosher too, they don't even stun the animals before killing them.

http://www.zincfedsq.com.au/images/kosher-australia.jpg


What would Jesus do?


"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the way of the prophets.  I have come not to abolish but to fulfill...until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law..."
- Matthew 5:17


"...you may slaughter animals from the herds and flocks the Lord has given you, as I have commanded you..."
- Deuteronomy 12:21


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU3O5rykwe4

;D
Immediate deflection to the Joos.  You want to kill them all but you hide behind them at every opportunity. You just could not be any more bigoted.

I doubt anyone who has seen a regular (non-halal) chicken slaughter house in action would complain about halal slaughter of chickens.

Soren wrote on Aug 18^th, 2013 at 12:51am:

;D Immediate deflection to the Joos.  You want to kill them all but you hide behind them at every opportunity. You just could not be any more bigoted.

Halal products are booming in Australia, and with the millions of dollars pouring in, its only going to go bigger and bigger.

There is no point fighting it.

Some of my colleagues were asking about halal at work during the week. What does halal slaughter actually involve? And what percentage of the certification fees go towards funding terrorism?

wally1 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2013 at 8:20am:

Soren wrote on Aug 18th, 2013 at 12:51am: ;D Immediate deflection to the Joos.  You want to kill them all but you hide behind them at every opportunity. You just could not be any more bigoted. Halal products are booming in Australia, and with the millions of dollars pouring in, its only going to go bigger and bigger. There is no point fighting it.

What behaviour is permitted [halal], to moslems?




Within ISLAM, for a devout moslem all things are permissible, if they are permitted by Sharia.

What does Sharia permit?

If you wish to know what those things are, you could study the Koran, and the Hadith.

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/001.qmt.html#001.001


But if you don't have the time to devle deeply into those books,
.....then study the un-abridged life of Muhammad.




What Would Muhammad Do?
(a checklist of Muhammad's behaviour)
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/WWMD.htm







+++


ISLAM is a curse upon men, upon mankind.

Whether men are moslem or non-moslem, ISLAM is a curse upon men.







+++


Moslems hate God, moslems hate God's righteousness.

God, is going to destroy those [moslems AND non-moslems] who through omission [neglecting to embrace God's righteousness], choose to praise lawlessness.



Q.
What doe s God hate, more than lawlessness ???

A.
I DO NOT KNOW!








Psalms 4:5
Offer the sacrifices of righteousness, and put your trust in the LORD.


Proverbs 14:34
Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.


1 Samuel 3:13
For I have told him that I will judge his house for ever for the iniquity which he knoweth; because his sons made themselves vile, and he restrained them not.


Jeremiah 15:19
Therefore thus saith the LORD, If thou return, then will I bring thee again, and thou shalt stand before me: and if thou take forth the precious from the vile, thou shalt be as my mouth: let them return unto thee; but return not thou unto them.






Deuteronomy 28:1
And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:


Deuteronomy 28:15
But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:




ISLAM is a curse upon men, upon mankind - for the wrongdoing of men, for our wrongdoing.

For our [foolish] choice - to neglect God's righteousness.





+++




There was no Koran [no ISLAMIC or 'moslem' 'heritage'], before Mohammed wrote it.

And he wrote it having full access to the Jewish and Christian scriptures, through those communities living in Arabia.

And Abraham was no moslem [a follower of Allah].

That claim is a falsehood, 'manufactured' by Mohammed.

There is no mention of a God called Allah, or of a 'moslem', until the Mohammed produced the Koran.

And there is no reference in Jewish scripture to the phonetic word 'alah', as a name for God.


Psalms 83:18
.....whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.






ISLAM is a curse upon the earth [upon man, Adama], ISLAM is the curse that is upon those who displease God.

Study ISLAM, the culture, the 'religion'.

ISLAM is an 'adversary', a liar, a 'deceiver', a 'destroyer' [......even to those within its own ranks!!!].

ISLAM is cursed, and >> ISLAM << is a curse.

Every good thing which ISLAM touches, becomes desolate.

Daniel 9:11  Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore *the curse* is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

'alah = the curse 'upon the earth' from God.
Strongs #
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H423&version=KJV







+++


What behaviour is permitted [halal], to moslems?


"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah."
Koran 33.21




What Would Muhammad Do?
(a checklist of Muhammad's behaviour)
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/WWMD.htmi

WAKE UP - MOSLEMS, AND NON-MOSLEMS.

But you cannot, can you ?

That which is in YOUR HEART [which you, yourself have chosen], will not allow you to 'wake up'.


2 Thessalonians 2:10
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Yadda wrote on Aug 18^th, 2013 at 9:26am:

wally1 wrote on Aug 18th, 2013 at 8:20am: Soren wrote on Aug 18th, 2013 at 12:51am: ;D Immediate deflection to the Joos.  You want to kill them all but you hide behind them at every opportunity. You just could not be any more bigoted. Halal products are booming in Australia, and with the millions of dollars pouring in, its only going to go bigger and bigger. There is no point fighting it. What behaviour is permitted [halal], to moslems? Within ISLAM, for a devout moslem all things are permissible, if they are permitted by Sharia. What behaviour is permitted [halal], to moslems? "Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah." Koran 33.21 What Would Muhammad Do? (a checklist of Muhammad's behaviour) http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/WWMD.htm

It is not rocket science....

To a moslem, all things are permissible, if they are permitted by Sharia law.

What behaviour is permitted [halal], to moslems?



e.g.
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29



"O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee;..."
Koran 33.50






To a moslem, all things are permissible, if they are permitted by Sharia law.

Google;
she "had no right to say no", "She was not covering her face or wearing any headscarf"


Google;
Bilal rape victim was "aussie slut"


Google;
rape jihadi
ISLAM is lawlessness, rape, murder, robbery, falsehood, lies.


ISLAM [lawlessness] - is what moslems worship.

Lawlessness - is what moslems [and many non-moslems] choose, to worship.

Yadda - can you try & reduce your replies to one liners please?

I can't be bothered reading such long posts.

Just get to the point in one line.

Bobby. wrote on Aug 18^th, 2013 at 9:55am:

Yadda - can you try & reduce your replies to one liners please? I can't be bothered reading such long posts. Just get to the point in one line.

If you hate God [and his nature, and all men do], then you are going to hell. ['hell' = separation from God]

Bobby. wrote on Aug 18^th, 2013 at 9:55am:

Yadda - can you try & reduce your replies to one liners please? I can't be bothered reading such long posts. Just get to the point in one line.

Agree.

Yadda- not sure what your posts had any connections with the booming of halal meat in australia.I dont care if muslims have halal nor do i care if fellow jews or buddhists have there own halal food.

Can you refute me that halal meat is not booming?

Yadda wrote on Aug 18^th, 2013 at 10:02am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 18th, 2013 at 9:55am: Yadda - can you try & reduce your replies to one liners please? I can't be bothered reading such long posts. Just get to the point in one line. If you hate God [and his nature, and all men do], then you are going to hell. ['hell' = separation from God]

Thanks for that advice.

At least you got it down to a one liner.  :)

Bobby. wrote on Aug 18^th, 2013 at 10:23am:

Yadda wrote on Aug 18th, 2013 at 10:02am: Bobby. wrote on Aug 18th, 2013 at 9:55am: Yadda - can you try & reduce your replies to one liners please? I can't be bothered reading such long posts. Just get to the point in one line. If you hate God [and his nature, and all men do], then you are going to hell. ['hell' = separation from God] Thanks for that advice. At least you got it down to a one liner.  :)

I knew that you would appreciate that bobby.         ;)

Blessed are you Yadda.

have a look at this video as it explains hell quite well:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RT6rL2UroE

wally1 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2013 at 10:13am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 18th, 2013 at 9:55am: Yadda - can you try & reduce your replies to one liners please? I can't be bothered reading such long posts. Just get to the point in one line. Agree. Yadda- not sure what your posts had any connections with the booming of halal meat in australia.I dont care if muslims have halal nor do i care if fellow jews or buddhists have there own halal food. Can you refute me that halal meat is not booming?

No.

And yes, halal foods are 'booming' in Australia, which i do not deny, is an indication that Australia, and Australians are choosing to accommodate ISLAM/ moslems.

And accommodating ISLAM/ moslems, also means that Australians are choosing to tolerate the mores, the laws and the societal tenets of ISLAM.

Moslems claim, and moslems tell Australians, that ISLAM is a virtuous faith and that moslems are virtuous people.

I cannot choose, for other Australians [or for any other person], i can only choose for myself.

I choose to despise ISLAM [and moslems - for choosing to embrace ISLAM], and its wickedness.

I believe that i recognise what ISLAM promotes in the world, and choose to separate myself from moslems and ISLAM, and i choose to seek a different path.




I am perplexed at the stupidity [and wilful ignorance] of many Australians, in choosing to welcome moslems to Australia - without seeking to understand what it is, which ISLAM truly promotes.

Those persons [moslems] embrace a philosophy, which teaches moslems [from childhood], that it is 'lawful' nay, it is AN OBLIGATION for [moslems], [when they have the 'opportunity'...] to afflict and to terrorise persons who do not believe as they [moslems] believe !!



Who is a moslem ?

THIS IS TRUTH, THIS IS REALITY....

Quote:

A moslem, is a person who chooses to embrace a philosophy [ISLAM], which teaches moslems that it is 'lawful' for moslems, to kill those, who do not believe, as they believe.

KORAN....

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11


"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves....."
Koran 48.29







p.s.
sorry bobby.

True Colours wrote on Aug 18^th, 2013 at 12:42am:

LOL What a nutter!

Wow that's the first statement of truth you have made about yourself, well done. I still put you in the mentally retarded basket bracket however.

Yadda,

Quote:

p.s. sorry bobby.

forgiven

namaste

Bobby. wrote on Aug 18^th, 2013 at 10:27am:

Blessed are you Yadda. have a look at this video as it explains hell quite well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RT6rL2UroE

bobby,

I am happy for you to believe, whatever you want to believe.

And we all do that - make choices.




bobby,

Within you, is a minute [small] part of God.

You can have more, or less [of God].



I do not want to be separated from God, separated from my creator, separated from my 'father'.

I do not want to be subject to [to be the slave of], the lawless ones, who have chosen to hate God.



Your choice, my choice.

The harvest is closer than ever.

God is clever.




Matthew 13:47
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48  Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49  So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50  And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Quote:

And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

But God loves you.

The problem is you would find it very hard to boycott halal, black person cheese, tassel salmon and quite a lot of Kraft products including vegemite are halal certified.

Some of the money raised by certification has been linked to funding terrorists in the past.

I thought that only the Federal Government could levy taxes and as this is a tax on food is it legal to extort money in this way?

Got to love the spell checker FD COOON cheese spelt correctly turns  into black person.

freediver wrote on Aug 18^th, 2013 at 8:48am:

Some of my colleagues were asking about halal at work during the week.

LOL

Someone asking you about halal? What did they do next? Did they send an email to Hitler to ask about kosher?

Bobby. wrote on Aug 18^th, 2013 at 11:12am:

Quote: And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. But God loves you.

I am not 'special' bobby.

And i am not righteous.

I am as 'conflicted' as any other human being, who must be tested in this world.

But i know that God has the POWER to heal me.

And i know that God wants to heal me, because i want to be healed [redeemed from this 'corruption'].

I trust God.

I am a fool.

But you are too clever to be a fool, bobby.        ;)


1 Corinthians 1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.i
Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.


Repent means to turn, away from sin [human foolishness], and towards God and his righteousness.

To seek his face.


Psalms 27:8
When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek.


Psalms 51:10
Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11  Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12  Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13  Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.


Psalms 32:1
Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2  Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.






+++


bobby,

Here, in this place, we are free to be, whatever we want to be.

We are free to be.

We are free to choose.





Daniel 12:10
Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.


Isaiah 48:10
Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.


Revelation 21:7
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8  But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

True Colours wrote on Aug 18^th, 2013 at 11:29am:

freediver wrote on Aug 18th, 2013 at 8:48am: Some of my colleagues were asking about halal at work during the week. LOL Someone asking you about halal? What did they do next - send an email to Hitler to ask about kosher?

Is English your second language?

Yadda-your missing your point, and your just using halal slaughter to push your anti muslim agenda.

Do you think the growth of halal meat in australia is because the government, coles, woollies, mcdonalds and all these abboitors love muslims, they only love what the money is bringing to them.

Halal is making them big money and that's why it is booming.

So quote al the bible verses or Koran verses you want.
Its all about the money.

wally1 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2013 at 12:42pm:

Its all about the money

Yes but is it legal?

wally1 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2013 at 12:42pm:

Yadda-your missing your point, and your just using halal slaughter to push your anti muslim agenda.

Halal is sharia-compliant.  I am against sharia, so I am against halal. If you can be a Muslim without wanting sharia, then I have nothing against you or your ideas. You can practice your private religion in any way you like, as far as I am concerned.

But if you want to achieve sharia law in Australia, then you are my opponent and enemy in political terms and I have no intention to accommodate or accept you.

Soren wrote on Aug 18^th, 2013 at 8:24pm:

wally1 wrote on Aug 18th, 2013 at 12:42pm: Yadda-your missing your point, and your just using halal slaughter to push your anti muslim agenda. Halal is sharia-compliant.  I am against sharia, so I am against halal. If you can be a Muslim without wanting sharia, then I have nothing against you or your ideas. You can practice your private religion in any way you like, as far as I am concerned. But if you want to achieve sharia law in Australia, then you are my opponent and enemy in political terms and I have no intention to accommodate or accept you.

How did jesus and his disciples kill animals to eat?

is seeing a halal label on food really that traumatic for you Soren?

As for the cruelty argument, under Australian law halal slaughtered animals must be stunned just like regular slaughtered animals.

Anyone who knows anything about the so called "humane" slaughter of non-halal would have no qualms whatsoever with halal slaughter. Please do some research on what goes on in your average chicken abbattoire.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 18^th, 2013 at 8:47pm:

is seeing a halal label on food really that traumatic for you Soren? As for the cruelty argument, under Australian law halal slaughtered animals must be stunned just like regular slaughtered animals. Anyone who knows anything about the so called "humane" slaughter of non-halal would have no qualms whatsoever with halal slaughter. Please do some research on what goes on in your average chicken abbattoire.

Halal is sharia-compliant. Sharia = barbarity. Barbarity - stick it up yer arse.
Geddit?

wally1 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2013 at 8:39pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 18th, 2013 at 8:24pm: wally1 wrote on Aug 18th, 2013 at 12:42pm: Yadda-your missing your point, and your just using halal slaughter to push your anti muslim agenda. Halal is sharia-compliant.  I am against sharia, so I am against halal. If you can be a Muslim without wanting sharia, then I have nothing against you or your ideas. You can practice your private religion in any way you like, as far as I am concerned. But if you want to achieve sharia law in Australia, then you are my opponent and enemy in political terms and I have no intention to accommodate or accept you. How did jesus and his disciples kill animals to eat?

Who gives a bugger? Do you, Wally?


(Wally?? WTF? You are a Wally.)

Soren wrote on Aug 18^th, 2013 at 8:55pm:

Halal is sharia-compliant.

Air is halal, so stop breathing it.

Soren wrote on Aug 17^th, 2013 at 11:40pm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gYq2DQG1zI halal is sharia. boycott it if you think killing animals slowly and painfully is barbaric.

Western farmers have been slaughtering animals since time immemorial by cutting their throats and bleeding them, this is actually a very quick and less painful method of slaughtering. Despite the modern methods used in industrial abbatoirs of stunniog the animals  first which really only makes the animals docile and not less painful because the animals still die in fear our  farmers still kill their own animals in the traditional method of bleeding them. so while you are on your soapbox you might want to start your campaign against this alleged cruelty in this country first. Wouldnt want to call you a hypocrite or anything.

True Colours wrote on Aug 18^th, 2013 at 9:27pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 18th, 2013 at 8:55pm: Halal is sharia-compliant. Air is halal, so stop breathing it.

;D ;D good one TC - sig-worthy.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 18^th, 2013 at 8:47pm:

is seeing a halal label on food really that traumatic for you Soren? As for the cruelty argument, under Australian law halal slaughtered animals must be stunned just like regular slaughtered animals. Anyone who knows anything about the so called "humane" slaughter of non-halal would have no qualms whatsoever with halal slaughter. Please do some research on what goes on in your average chicken abbattoire.

So what does Halal slaughter actually involve?

Ian, do you actually know any farmers that slaughter their own stock?

freediver wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 8:43am:

Ian, do you actually know any farmers that slaughter their own stock?

For their own consumption, yes. I have slaughtered farm animals myself many times. Why would you waste a bullet ?

freediver wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 8:43am:

So what does Halal slaughter actually involve?

Saying a ritual prayer while cutting the animals throat.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 1:20am:

True Colours wrote on Aug 18th, 2013 at 9:27pm: Soren wrote on Aug 18th, 2013 at 8:55pm: Halal is sharia-compliant. Air is halal, so stop breathing it. ;D ;D good one TC - sig-worthy.

Don't be stupid. Which sharia court has rules air halal?

Quite correct, Halal only applies to food.

Soren wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 12:52pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 1:20am: True Colours wrote on Aug 18th, 2013 at 9:27pm: Soren wrote on Aug 18th, 2013 at 8:55pm: Halal is sharia-compliant. Air is halal, so stop breathing it. ;D ;D good one TC - sig-worthy. Don't be stupid. Which sharia court has rules air halal?

It is a basic principle of Islam; everything is halal unless God or His Prophet say otherwise.


Quote:

Ḥalāl (Arabic: حلال‎ ḥalāl, 'permissible') is any object or an action which is permissible to use or engage in, according to Islamic law... ...Halal is an Arabic word meaning "lawful" or "permissible." The term covers not only food and drink, but also all matters of daily life. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halal

Once again Soren demonstrates that he doesn't know what he is talking about.

Keep going Soren...shows us how ignorant Islamophobes really are.




Fruit and vegetables and clean water are all halal, so you better give them up too.


;D ;D ;D

Halal and kosher aren't much different in their barbarity and neither are our normalised abbatoirs much better. Commercial scale slaughter is ironically enough more barbarous than any 'savage' peoples practices.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzaeHfh65hs&noredirect=1&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DOzaeHfh65hs%26noredirect%3D1&has_verified=1

'Bleeding' an animal to death, isn't slashing its throat. If you put a small knick or incision into a main vein or artery by a sharp blade. The animal is petted, stroked and spoken to gently, unaware that its life is ebbing away, lack of oxygen sends it to sleep before death comes with a quick final shudder.

Blood is a valued resource to 'primitive' people and is collected in a bowl, not splashed about willy-nilly. In fact the Masai cattle-herders of Africa don't even kill the animal at all, they just bleed off a little blood and mix it with milk for food.

If beef is to be available as a cheap affordable commodity in supermarkets, cattle HAVE to be abused. It's bloody senseless to point the finger from one to the other as being the worse abuser. Every oz of meat in Coles and Woolies has suffered. I'm not a vegetarian, I'm a realist. If you want your meat to have died gently kill it yourself.

ian wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 1:13pm:

Quite correct, Halal only applies to food.

no it doesn't.


Quote:

Halal is an Arabic word meaning "lawful" or "permissible." The term covers not only food and drink, but also all matters of daily life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halal

As to your question Soren, anything life sustaining is halal by default. It simply means "permitted". For anything to be haram, it must be specifically deemed as such.

Soren keeps trying to pass himself off as a sophisticate of the intelligentsia - then he posts another  Pat Condell video. Too funny.  ::)

Grey wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 2:43pm:

Soren keeps trying to pass himself off as a sophisticate of the intelligentsia

How so?



Anyway, what is halal is what is permitted under Islam. Islam may well say that that air is life-giving therefore permitted. The point is - I do not need some silly sharia scholar to tell me what is permitted under Islam.

No wonder sharia covers the most minute aspects of ordinary life. I would not be surprised if there has been an Islamic ruling on air, specifically, being decreed life-giving therefore halal.

you don't seem to understand Soren - halal is default - you don't need any ruling to make anything halal - only whats haram.

Grey wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 2:12pm:

'Bleeding' an animal to death, isn't slashing its throat. If you put a small knick or incision into a main vein or artery by a sharp blade. The animal is petted, stroked and spoken to gently, unaware that its life is ebbing away, lack of oxygen sends it to sleep before death comes with a quick final shudder.

It's a relatively quick an painless way to die. Is it more merciful to allow an animal die at old age from a heart attack or from cancer?

With proper halal slaughter, the animals are not even supposed to see each other being killed because Muslims are not even supposed to scare animals. In the collection of Hadith of Al Hakim he says that one should not kill an animal in front of another animal. In fact, the Prophet even told people not to sharpen their knives in front of animal because even that might put terror in the animal's heart.

In the modern Western abattoirs, animals are often killed in front of each other which is a fairly terrifying ending for an animal.

Islam also recommends humane killing:


Quote:

Verily God has enjoined goodness to everything; so when you kill, kill in a good way and when you slaughter, slaughter in a good way. So every one of you should sharpen his knife, and let the slaughtered animal die comfortably. - Bukhari

http://spa.qibla.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=1773&CATE=127

Soren wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 2:48pm:

Grey wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 2:43pm: Soren keeps trying to pass himself off as a sophisticate of the intelligentsia How so? Anyway, what is halal is what is permitted under Islam. Islam may well say that that air is life-giving therefore permitted. The point is - I do not need some silly sharia scholar to tell me what is permitted under Islam. No wonder sharia covers the most minute aspects of ordinary life. I would not be surprised if there has been an Islamic ruling on air, specifically, being decreed life-giving therefore halal.

Everything is considered halal in Islam unless there is a specific prohibition.

Only a few things are forbidden to Muslims to eat - intoxicants, pork, blood, animals with fangs, carrion, poisons, food contaminated by impurities, and meat slaughtered by pagans.

Everything else is halal.


Kosher is halal - I have eaten kosher many times. Seeing as kosher is halal, would yo have it banned?

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 2:51pm:

you don't seem to understand Soren - halal is default - you don't need any ruling to make anything halal - only whats haram.

Bollocks.



What is halal?
Halal simply means permitted or lawful. So when we are talking about halal foods it means any foods that are allowed to be eaten according to Islamic Sharia law.

This means that for any food to be considered halal it must comply with the religious ritual and observance of Sharia law.

What is halal certification?
This means that food has been subjected to approved certification systems which guarantee to consumers that nothing in the food has any forbidden components. Halal certificates are issued, for a fee, by a certifying body.

What is haram?
The opposite of halal is haram (forbidden).

Food can be forbidden in Islam if it includes:

blood
alcohol
meat or any products from a forbidden animal, including pigs and any carnivorous animals or birds of prey
meat or any products of an animal which has not been slaughtered in the correct manner in the name of Allah

Under Islamic law (sharia) it is permissible (halal) to consume items that would otherwise be termed haram so long as it is a matter of survival and not just an act of disobedience.
http://www.halalchoices.com.au/what_is_halal.html

Thats correct Soren, here's how it works:

Consider all food is by default halal. Then comes along the islamic doctrine which states which food isn't allowed - ie those that are not slaughtered the proscribed way, carnivores, pork etc.

Thus just like I said - everything is halal by default until islamic law specifies what is haram. Would you like me to dumb it down even further for you?

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 5:14pm:

Thats correct Soren, here's how it works: Consider all food is by default halal. Then comes along the islamic doctrine which states which food isn't allowed - ie those that are not slaughtered the proscribed way, carnivores, pork etc. Thus just like I said - everything is halal by default until islamic law specifies what is haram. Would you like me to dumb it down even further for you?

What is halal certification?
This means that food has been subjected to approved certification systems which guarantee to consumers that nothing in the food has any forbidden components. Halal certificates are issued, for a fee, by a certifying body.





This is what it's all about, my obfuscating, overcomplicating, discombobulated, sharia-certified, garden-path attendant friend.
If it's halal-certified - boycott it. That's what Condell's video was about, that's what I said, that's what it's all about.
Not the fvckn air and some such swivel-eyed bollocks.

Soren you were the one mistaking "halal" for something that needs a certificate or whatever. I merely corrected you. It is true that 'halal' is more often used to describe permitted food - but that is not all that it is.

The air you breathe is every bit as halal as the food with a halal certificate. I'm sorry for your confusion.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 5:46pm:

Soren you were the one mistaking "halal" for something that needs a certificate or whatever. I merely corrected you. It is true that 'halal' is more often used to describe permitted food - but that is not all that it is. The air you breathe is every bit as halal as the food with a halal certificate. I'm sorry for your confusion.

See the vid in the OP. It is about sharia certification/permission/endorsement/nod/approval/OK, call it what you will. It is entirely about sharia approval, not about the fvckn air or water or fruit or raisins, 72 or otherwise.

No bloody wonder Muslims are regarded as untrustworthy, dishonest obfuscating hagglers - even you are arguing the hind leg off a donkey of your own invention.

You guys try to imitate the Joos and all that Bugs Bunny cleverness but you bugger it up every time.

Soren wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 7:22pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 5:46pm: Soren you were the one mistaking "halal" for something that needs a certificate or whatever. I merely corrected you. It is true that 'halal' is more often used to describe permitted food - but that is not all that it is. The air you breathe is every bit as halal as the food with a halal certificate. I'm sorry for your confusion. See the vid in the OP. It is about sharia certification/permission/endorsement/nod/approval/OK, call it what you will. It is entirely about sharia approval, not about the fvckn air or water or fruit or raisins, 72 or otherwise. No bloody wonder Muslims are regarded as untrustworthy, dishonest obfuscating hagglers - even you are arguing the hind leg off a donkey of your own invention. You guys try to imitate the Joos and all that Bugs Bunny cleverness but you bugger it up every time.

Well yeah but who doesn't? In the excitement of making money and eating cheaply everybody fvcks up all the time. How it's meant to be according to the rites of Islam, Judaism or the Royal smacking humane society is not the way it is.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 2:28pm:

Quote: Halal is an Arabic word meaning "lawful" or "permissible." The term covers not only food and drink, but also all matters of daily life. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halal As to your question Soren, anything life sustaining is halal by default. It simply means "permitted". For anything to be haram, it must be specifically deemed as such.

You will find that when used in the english language the word halal is only ever used to refer to food. Your ridicule of Soren for using this term correctly is misplaced.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 5:14pm:

Thus just like I said - everything is halal by default until islamic law specifies what is haram. Would you like me to dumb it down even further for you?

No, that is incorrect. Meat isnt Halal by default, the animal must be slaughtered correctly to be considered Halal.

ian wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 8:47pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 2:28pm: Quote: Halal is an Arabic word meaning "lawful" or "permissible." The term covers not only food and drink, but also all matters of daily life. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halal As to your question Soren, anything life sustaining is halal by default. It simply means "permitted". For anything to be haram, it must be specifically deemed as such. You will find that when used in the english language the word halal is only ever used to refer to food. Your ridicule of Soren for using this term correctly is misplaced.

What sort of Halal shampoo do you prefer to eat, ian?


http://www.thenational.ae/deployedfiles/Assets/Richmedia/Image/SaxoPress/AD20121113995559-Habibi_Haircare.jpg


:-/

ian wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 8:47pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 2:28pm: Quote: Halal is an Arabic word meaning "lawful" or "permissible." The term covers not only food and drink, but also all matters of daily life. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halal As to your question Soren, anything life sustaining is halal by default. It simply means "permitted". For anything to be haram, it must be specifically deemed as such. You will find that when used in the english language the word halal is only ever used to refer to food. Your ridicule of Soren for using this term correctly is misplaced.

Do you eat this stuff, ian?


http://www.sareeguru.com/acatalog/halal_skincare.jpg


:-/

ian wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 8:47pm: You will find that when used in the english language the word halal is only ever used to refer to food. Your ridicule of Soren for using this term correctly is misplaced.[/quote]


Does one spray this on bread?


http://www.sareeguru.com/acatalog/halal_spray.jpg


:-/

ian wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 8:47pm:

You will find that when used in the english language the word halal is only ever used to refer to food. Your ridicule of Soren for using this term correctly is misplaced.

Edible condoms, ian?


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Q7Zse-Ov4iI/T9lL1hP_XMI/AAAAAAAAb_E/EjjctisYe_Q/s1600/halal_condom.jpg

ian wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 8:47pm:

You will find that when used in the english language the word halal is only ever used to refer to food. Your ridicule of Soren for using this term correctly is misplaced.

I'm guessing this food has a nasty aftertaste:


http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/c0.0.403.403/p403x403/398139_590876290938693_582174025_n.jpg

Ah. Habibi haircare. It is my personal choice.

It thickens the hairs on one’s head, you see. Insh’allah, a man of faith will never lose his hairs with this product.

Gud is great!

ian wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 8:47pm:

You will find that when used in the english language the word halal is only ever used to refer to food. Your ridicule of Soren for using this term correctly is misplaced.

Um no. As disproven by the wiki article I linked. The word is specific to islamic law. What you are proposing is "anglosising" (if you like) islamic law, and making it into something that it is not. It is a muslim word, and it is a muslim concept - muslims get to define what it means - not non-muslim English speakers.

Karnal wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 9:17pm:

Ah. Habibi haircare. It is my personal choice. It thickens the hairs on one’s head, you see. Insh’allah, a man of faith will never lose his hairs with this product. Gud is great!

Halal "food, and stuff like that".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO4U4FCSxnI

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 9:22pm:

ian wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 8:47pm: You will find that when used in the english language the word halal is only ever used to refer to food. Your ridicule of Soren for using this term correctly is misplaced. Um no. As disproven by the wiki article I linked. The word is specific to islamic law. What you are proposing is "anglosising" (if you like) islamic law, and making it into something that it is not. It is a muslim word, and it is a muslim concept - muslims get to define what it means - not non-muslim English speakers.

Which Muslims? I thought there was a huge diversity of Muslim views. Who are you speaking for? Why is your view to be taken seriously as the 'Muslim' view? Are you a scholar (certified)? Do you speak classical Arabic? Have you memorised the Koran?

Are you halal certified?

Soren wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 9:27pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 9:22pm: ian wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 8:47pm: You will find that when used in the english language the word halal is only ever used to refer to food. Your ridicule of Soren for using this term correctly is misplaced. Um no. As disproven by the wiki article I linked. The word is specific to islamic law. What you are proposing is "anglosising" (if you like) islamic law, and making it into something that it is not. It is a muslim word, and it is a muslim concept - muslims get to define what it means - not non-muslim English speakers. Which Muslims? I thought there was a huge diversity of Muslim views. Who are you speaking for? Why is your view to be taken seriously as the 'Muslim' view? Are you a scholar (certified)? Do you speak classical Arabic? Have you memorised the Koran? Are you halal certified?

My parents went to Islam, and all they brought me back was this t-shirt:


http://rlv.zcache.com/100_halal_t_shirt-r09976bd98f404fbabee5bf782053ef1f_804gy_512.jpg

Soren wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 9:27pm:

Which Muslims? I thought there was a huge diversity of Muslim views. Who are you speaking for? Why is your view to be taken seriously as the 'Muslim' view? Are you a scholar (certified)? Do you speak classical Arabic? Have you memorised the Koran? Are you halal certified?

Soren show me a single muslim who considers "halal" to mean only what food is permitted.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 9:37pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 9:27pm: Which Muslims? I thought there was a huge diversity of Muslim views. Who are you speaking for? Why is your view to be taken seriously as the 'Muslim' view? Are you a scholar (certified)? Do you speak classical Arabic? Have you memorised the Koran? Are you halal certified? Soren show me a single muslim who considers "halal" to mean only what food is permitted.

This thread is not about Muslims that I can or cannot show you. It is about boycotting anything that is halal-certified.


I don't give a bugger about what is halal and what isn't. I am calling for, with Pat Condell, for the boycotting of anything that is halal certified.
I didn't actually take you for one of the usual Muslim thickos but you seem to insist...

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 9:22pm:

ian wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 8:47pm: You will find that when used in the english language the word halal is only ever used to refer to food. Your ridicule of Soren for using this term correctly is misplaced. Um no. As disproven by the wiki article I linked. The word is specific to islamic law. What you are proposing is "anglosising" (if you like) islamic law, and making it into something that it is not. It is a muslim word, and it is a muslim concept - muslims get to define what it means - not non-muslim English speakers.

What are you tallking about? Muslim isnt a language, its a religion. Secondly the word is commonly used by non Arabic Muslims  in a number of non Arabic languages (including English)  and relates only to food in all of them. 

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 9:37pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 9:27pm: Which Muslims? I thought there was a huge diversity of Muslim views. Who are you speaking for? Why is your view to be taken seriously as the 'Muslim' view? Are you a scholar (certified)? Do you speak classical Arabic? Have you memorised the Koran? Are you halal certified? Soren show me a single muslim who considers "halal" to mean only what food is permitted.

Have you ever seen the word before any other word but "food" ? You wont see it used in any other ciontext in any Muslim country either. 

ian wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 9:49pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 9:37pm: Soren wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 9:27pm: Which Muslims? I thought there was a huge diversity of Muslim views. Who are you speaking for? Why is your view to be taken seriously as the 'Muslim' view? Are you a scholar (certified)? Do you speak classical Arabic? Have you memorised the Koran? Are you halal certified? Soren show me a single muslim who considers "halal" to mean only what food is permitted. Have you ever seen the word before any other word but "food" ? You wont see it used in any other ciontext in any Muslim country either.

http://www.hijabistas.net/home/images/stories/2013/jan/halal_cosmetics/amara_halal_cosmetics.jpg

ian wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 9:49pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 9:37pm: Soren wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 9:27pm: Which Muslims? I thought there was a huge diversity of Muslim views. Who are you speaking for? Why is your view to be taken seriously as the 'Muslim' view? Are you a scholar (certified)? Do you speak classical Arabic? Have you memorised the Koran? Are you halal certified? Soren show me a single muslim who considers "halal" to mean only what food is permitted. Have you ever seen the word before any other word but "food" ? You wont see it used in any other ciontext in any Muslim country either.

http://www.thenational.ae/deployedfiles/Assets/Richmedia/Image/SaxoPress/AD20121113995559-Habibi_Haircare.jpg

ian wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 9:49pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 9:37pm: Soren wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 9:27pm: Which Muslims? I thought there was a huge diversity of Muslim views. Who are you speaking for? Why is your view to be taken seriously as the 'Muslim' view? Are you a scholar (certified)? Do you speak classical Arabic? Have you memorised the Koran? Are you halal certified? Soren show me a single muslim who considers "halal" to mean only what food is permitted. Have you ever seen the word before any other word but "food" ? You wont see it used in any other ciontext in any Muslim country either.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/europe/magazine/2009/0525/halal_0525.jpg

ian wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 9:49pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 9:37pm: Soren wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 9:27pm: Which Muslims? I thought there was a huge diversity of Muslim views. Who are you speaking for? Why is your view to be taken seriously as the 'Muslim' view? Are you a scholar (certified)? Do you speak classical Arabic? Have you memorised the Koran? Are you halal certified? Soren show me a single muslim who considers "halal" to mean only what food is permitted. Have you ever seen the word before any other word but "food" ? You wont see it used in any other ciontext in any Muslim country either.

http://www.sareeguru.com/acatalog/halal_spray.jpg

ian wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 9:49pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 9:37pm: Soren wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 9:27pm: Which Muslims? I thought there was a huge diversity of Muslim views. Who are you speaking for? Why is your view to be taken seriously as the 'Muslim' view? Are you a scholar (certified)? Do you speak classical Arabic? Have you memorised the Koran? Are you halal certified? Soren show me a single muslim who considers "halal" to mean only what food is permitted. Have you ever seen the word before any other word but "food" ? You wont see it used in any other ciontext in any Muslim country either.

http://www.aboutleb.com/ItemImages/IB-2270-634678696213973465.jpg

All those products contain food.  And it is obviously only being used as a slogan for a motor vehicle, I doubt the Shariah council had a meeting and decided that particular motor car rental business  was Halal. Nice try though. The problem is Greggary, unlike yourself I have travelled considerably in many Muslim countries.

ian wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 10:03pm:

All those products contain food.

http://couchlocked.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/laughing-hysterically_thumb.gif

I love it when some smart#rse does a frantic google which falls flat on its face .

ian wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 10:03pm:

All those products contain food.

Not this one, ian:


http://www.barenakedislam.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/mcdonalds-halal-sign.jpg

Halal scanties:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tdd0OQnuF4


Non-halal, I fear. Or possibly halal. Who knows? Not a 9 year old in any cases, so possibly borderline.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-JQvw-Ce00

ian wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 10:03pm:

The problem is Greggary, unlike yourself I have travelled considerably in many Muslim countries.

You're full of poo, ian.

You've never been out of Australia.

I've been to a few "Muslim countries", and have seen all of these products.

Cosmetics, especially.

Have you been to the Pavilion in KL, ian?

Have you seen the range of Halal cosmetics and skin care products in that little shopping centre?

No, I didn't think so.

Get off the lounge and go see the world, ian.  You'll learn a thing or two.

errr.. beef is a food Greggary.

ian wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 10:03pm:

All those products contain food.

Does one spread this on bread, ian, or is it served with vegetables?


http://www.hussana.com.au/hussanahalalskincarerange.html




(Seriously ian, you are so full of poo.  Be a man for once and just admit that you were wrong.)

ian wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 10:33pm:

errr.. beef is a food Greggary.

Yes, ian, it was a little joke.  About McDonald's.  Trust you to not get it.

So, do you eat this stuff often, ian?


http://www.zuleykhamagazine.com/inglot-halal-nail-polish-for-muslim-women/

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 10:33pm:

ian wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 10:03pm: All those products contain food.  Does one spread this on bread, ian, or is it served with vegetables? http://www.hussana.com.au/hussanahalalskincarerange.html (Seriously ian, you are so full of poo.  Be a man for once and just admit that you were wrong.)

With added natural aloe vera gel,
Feel like an idiot now? You should after trying to say beef isnt a food and not knowing that skin care and cosmetics commonly contain food items.

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 10:38pm:

ian wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 10:33pm: errr.. beef is a food Greggary. Yes, ian, it was a little joke.  About McDonald's.  Trust you to not get it. So, do you eat this stuff often, ian? http://www.zuleykhamagazine.com/inglot-halal-nail-polish-for-muslim-women/

Keep putting yourself in it, Im enjoying this, Lol. From your link

Quote:

There are still some speculations if it is actually halal or not so many do not wear

ian wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 10:40pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 10:33pm: ian wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 10:03pm: All those products contain food.  Does one spread this on bread, ian, or is it served with vegetables? http://www.hussana.com.au/hussanahalalskincarerange.html (Seriously ian, you are so full of poo.  Be a man for once and just admit that you were wrong.) With added natural aloe vera gel, Feel like an idiot now? You should after trying to say beef isnt a food and not knowing that skin care and cosmetics commonly contain food items.

You've been caught out, ian.

"Have you ever seen the word before any other word but "food" ? You wont see it used in any other ciontext in any Muslim country either."

Tsk tsk

How many of these have you had in your mouth, ian?


http://ecofren.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/halal_condom.jpg


Did you swallow?

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 10:11pm:

ian wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 10:03pm: The problem is Greggary, unlike yourself I have travelled considerably in many Muslim countries. You're full of poo, ian. You've never been out of Australia. I've been to a few "Muslim countries", and have seen all of these products. Cosmetics, especially. Have you been to the Pavilion in KL, ian? Have you seen the range of Halal cosmetics and skin care products in that little shopping centre? No, I didn't think so. Get off the lounge and go see the world, ian.  You'll learn a thing or two.

No Greggary I havent travelled, I speak 4 Asian languages fluently and lived and worked in Indonesia for over 5 years and Malaysia and Singapore for over 2 years.  ;D

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 10:44pm:

ian wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 10:40pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 10:33pm: ian wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 10:03pm: All those products contain food.  Does one spread this on bread, ian, or is it served with vegetables? http://www.hussana.com.au/hussanahalalskincarerange.html (Seriously ian, you are so full of poo.  Be a man for once and just admit that you were wrong.) With added natural aloe vera gel, Feel like an idiot now? You should after trying to say beef isnt a food and not knowing that skin care and cosmetics commonly contain food items. You've been caught out, ian. "Have you ever seen the word before any other word but "food" ? You wont see it used in any other ciontext in any Muslim country either." Tsk tsk How many of these have you had in your mouth, ian? http://ecofren.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/halal_condom.jpg Did you swallow?

The lubrication would be sonsidered a food item, just because its classified as food doesnt mean it has to be swallowed. Food can also be ingested by absorption, thats exactly why in these countries some skin care, cosmetics etc. are classified as Halal because they contain food items which obviously are used on the skin or other parts of the body and can be absorbed. see, your learning something Greggary.

ian wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 10:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 10:11pm: ian wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 10:03pm: The problem is Greggary, unlike yourself I have travelled considerably in many Muslim countries. You're full of poo, ian. You've never been out of Australia. I've been to a few "Muslim countries", and have seen all of these products. Cosmetics, especially. Have you been to the Pavilion in KL, ian? Have you seen the range of Halal cosmetics and skin care products in that little shopping centre? No, I didn't think so. Get off the lounge and go see the world, ian.  You'll learn a thing or two. No Greggary I havent travelled, I speak 4 Asian languages fluently and lived and worked in Indonesia for over 5 years and Malaysia and Singapore for over 2 years.  ;D

And still you're stupid enough to make a statement like this:  "Have you ever seen the word before any other word but "food" ? You wont see it used in any other ciontext in any Muslim country either."

Perhaps you need to travel a little bit more, ian.

Stay out of the bath houses, and spend a little time on the streets.   There's a good lad    ;)

ian wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 10:47pm:

The lubrication would be sonsidered a food item, just because its classified as food doesnt mean it has to be swallowed.

So you spit?

::)

Seeing as with all your frantic googling all you did was reinforrce my point, your comments are somewhat hollow. As usual your trolling fell flat on its face. Let me leave you with this little pearl of wisdom
makin lama makin tolol kamu.

ian wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 10:52pm:

Seeing as with all your frantic googling all you did was reinforrce my point, your comments are somewhat hollow. As usual your trolling fell flat on its face. Let me leave you with this little pearl of wisdom makin lama makin tolol kamu.

"Have you ever seen the word before any other word but "food" ? You wont see it used in any other ciontext in any Muslim country either."


Yes, ian.  In a variety of places.

http://muslimahsmusings.blogspot.com.au/2011/07/halal-beauty-products-ultimate-list.html

http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/96962

http://www.newdirections.com.au/articles/article.php?aid=65


Get yourself a passport, turn off The Bolt Report, get off the lounge, and do a bit of travelling.

Seriously ian, you need to get out and see the real world.

Your ignorance is astounding.

ian wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 10:03pm:

All those products contain food.

Do me a favour .... never invite me to your place for dinner. Thanks but no thanks.

John Smith wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 11:01pm:

ian wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 10:03pm: All those products contain food.  Do me a favour .... never invite me to your place for dinner. Thanks but no thanks.

Don't take any condoms, whatever you do.

"The lubrication would be considered a food item ... "

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1376746834/86#86

Ian, I'm not sure what stuff your smoking to make you think all those cosmetics anad condoms and nail polish are classed as "food".

Either way, you have no idea what you are talking about. According to the islamic way of life, everything is divided into "halal" and "non-halal". To say halal only refers to food is gross ignorance on your part.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 11:34pm:

Ian, I'm not sure what stuff your smoking to make you think all those cosmetics anad condoms and nail polish are classed as "food". Either way, you have no idea what you are talking about. According to the islamic way of life, everything is divided into "halal" and "non-halal". To say halal only refers to food is gross ignorance on your part.

It wouldn't be an ian post if it didn't contain gross ignorance.

Perhaps ian will be having this for breakfast:


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-nqfI1Z_M0o0/UHhUvig3DsI/AAAAAAAAAcE/yc3bl_vwc5g/s1600/hussana-halal-banner-15.jpg

ian wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 1:13pm:

Quite correct, Halal only applies to food.

Incorrect. Halal applies to just about everything.

Halal Clothes
Relationships
Halal finance
Halal insurance
Halal investment
Halal clothing
Halal perfume
Halal soap
Halal farming
Aquiculture
Halal Home
Halal Employment
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Soren wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 2:48pm:

Grey wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 2:43pm: Soren keeps trying to pass himself off as a sophisticate of the intelligentsia How so? Anyway, what is halal is what is permitted under Islam. Islam may well say that that air is life-giving therefore permitted. The point is - I do not need some silly sharia scholar to tell me what is permitted under Islam.

Keep exposing your ignorance Soren. ;D ;D ;D

Everything in the world is halal by default

True Colours wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 8:21am:

Everything in the world is halal by default

Thank You. Just like I said:


Quote:

Nothing is haram except what is prohibited by a sound and explicit nas (Nas denotes either a verse of the Qur'an or a clear, authentic, and explicit sunnah (practice or saying) of Prophet Muhammad.

But I'm sure Soren will somehow interpret this as muslims deliberately obfuscating  :P

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 2:28pm:

ian wrote on Aug 19th, 2013 at 1:13pm: Quite correct, Halal only applies to food. no it doesn't. Quote: Halal is an Arabic word meaning "lawful" or "permissible." The term covers not only food and drink, but also all matters of daily life. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halal As to your question Soren, anything life sustaining is halal by default. It simply means "permitted". For anything to be haram, it must be specifically deemed as such.

Didn't you previously insist that unless I can find a verse specifically permitting rape it must mean it is forbidden?

Rape has been very clearly deemed as haram.

freediver wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 7:03pm:

Didn't you previously insist that unless I can find a verse specifically permitting rape it must mean it is forbidden?

Islam forbids rape, and hands out a hefty punishment and deterrent:


Quote:

Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr: When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me...the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: "Messenger of God, I am the man who did it to her. He (the Prophet) said..."Stone him to death..." -Abu Dawood

Compare to the West where rapists get locked up in luxury for a couple of years and get fed gourmet food.

Or compare to the Judeo-Christian Bible:

"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman"
- Deuteronomy 22:28-29
:o


Sick. Westerners are soft on rape. Shameful!

Justice for rape victims!

True Colours wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 12:04am:

freediver wrote on Aug 21st, 2013 at 7:03pm: Didn't you previously insist that unless I can find a verse specifically permitting rape it must mean it is forbidden? Islam forbids rape, and hands out a hefty punishment and deterrent: Quote: Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr: When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me...the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: "Messenger of God, I am the man who did it to her. He (the Prophet) said..."Stone him to death..." -Abu Dawood Compare to the West where rapists get locked up in luxury for a couple of years and get fed gourmet food. Or compare to the Judeo-Christian Bible: "If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman" - Deuteronomy 22:28-29 :o Sick. Westerners are soft on rape. Shameful! Justice for rape victims!

Considering how many women have been stoned to death because they have been raped your comments are laughable.

Again, if you hate the west so much, go back to your own people.

Quantum wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 12:20am:

True Colours wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:04am: freediver wrote on Aug 21st, 2013 at 7:03pm: Didn't you previously insist that unless I can find a verse specifically permitting rape it must mean it is forbidden? Islam forbids rape, and hands out a hefty punishment and deterrent: Quote: Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr: When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me...the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: "Messenger of God, I am the man who did it to her. He (the Prophet) said..."Stone him to death..." -Abu Dawood Compare to the West where rapists get locked up in luxury for a couple of years and get fed gourmet food. Or compare to the Judeo-Christian Bible: "If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman" - Deuteronomy 22:28-29 :o Sick. Westerners are soft on rape. Shameful! Justice for rape victims! Considering how many women have been stoned to death because they have been raped your comments are laughable. Again, if you hate the west so much, go back to your own people.

No Islamic court has ever ordered somebody to be stoned for being raped.

Do your lies bring you any shame Quantum?

True Colours wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 12:30am:

Quantum wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:20am: True Colours wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:04am: freediver wrote on Aug 21st, 2013 at 7:03pm: Didn't you previously insist that unless I can find a verse specifically permitting rape it must mean it is forbidden? Islam forbids rape, and hands out a hefty punishment and deterrent: Quote: Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr: When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me...the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: "Messenger of God, I am the man who did it to her. He (the Prophet) said..."Stone him to death..." -Abu Dawood Compare to the West where rapists get locked up in luxury for a couple of years and get fed gourmet food. Or compare to the Judeo-Christian Bible: "If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman" - Deuteronomy 22:28-29 :o Sick. Westerners are soft on rape. Shameful! Justice for rape victims! Considering how many women have been stoned to death because they have been raped your comments are laughable. Again, if you hate the west so much, go back to your own people. No Islamic court has ever ordered somebody to be stoned for being raped. Do your lies bring you any shame Quantum?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/nov/02/somalia-gender

Quantum wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 12:43am:

True Colours wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:30am: Quantum wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:20am: True Colours wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:04am: freediver wrote on Aug 21st, 2013 at 7:03pm: Didn't you previously insist that unless I can find a verse specifically permitting rape it must mean it is forbidden? Islam forbids rape, and hands out a hefty punishment and deterrent: Quote: Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr: When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me...the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: "Messenger of God, I am the man who did it to her. He (the Prophet) said..."Stone him to death..." -Abu Dawood Compare to the West where rapists get locked up in luxury for a couple of years and get fed gourmet food. Or compare to the Judeo-Christian Bible: "If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman" - Deuteronomy 22:28-29 :o Sick. Westerners are soft on rape. Shameful! Justice for rape victims! Considering how many women have been stoned to death because they have been raped your comments are laughable. Again, if you hate the west so much, go back to your own people. No Islamic court has ever ordered somebody to be stoned for being raped. Do your lies bring you any shame Quantum? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/nov/02/somalia-gender

The story is discredited. The court said that the main points reported in the article were untrue. First of all, her age was officially not 13, witnesses including journalists said she appeared to be about 23. Secondly, her own testimony did not mention rape - she came to the court requesting to be punished for committing adultery. You can see the bias in the article with the description of the Shabab government as 'rebels' even though they controlled most of the country at the time.




Have any cases supported by hard evidence rather than this disputed and discredited article?

True Colours wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 1:27am:

Quantum wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:43am: True Colours wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:30am: Quantum wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:20am: True Colours wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:04am: freediver wrote on Aug 21st, 2013 at 7:03pm: Didn't you previously insist that unless I can find a verse specifically permitting rape it must mean it is forbidden? Islam forbids rape, and hands out a hefty punishment and deterrent: Quote: Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr: When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me...the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: "Messenger of God, I am the man who did it to her. He (the Prophet) said..."Stone him to death..." -Abu Dawood Compare to the West where rapists get locked up in luxury for a couple of years and get fed gourmet food. Or compare to the Judeo-Christian Bible: "If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman" - Deuteronomy 22:28-29 :o Sick. Westerners are soft on rape. Shameful! Justice for rape victims! Considering how many women have been stoned to death because they have been raped your comments are laughable. Again, if you hate the west so much, go back to your own people. No Islamic court has ever ordered somebody to be stoned for being raped. Do your lies bring you any shame Quantum? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/nov/02/somalia-gender The story is discredited. The court said that the main points reported in the article were untrue. First of all, her age was officially not 13, witnesses including journalists said she appeared to be about 23. Secondly, her own testimony did not mention rape - she came to the court requesting to be punished for committing adultery. You can see the bias in the article with the description of the Shabab government as 'rebels' even though they controlled most of the country at the time. Have any cases supported by hard evidence rather than this disputed and discredited article?

So the guardian article has been discredited and is disputed? How about these?

BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7708169.stm

Al-Jazeera
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2008/11/2008111201216476354.html

The Mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1081214/Somali-girl-pleaded-mercy-Islamists-stoned-death-raped.html

NBC
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27484976/ns/world_news-africa/t/militants-stone-death-somali-rape-victim/

Huffingtonpost
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-daou/13-year-old-somali-rape-v_b_143452.html

ABC
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-11-02/13yo-adulterer-stoned-to-death-amnesty/190522

Fox
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,445962,00.html

NY Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/05/world/africa/05somalia.html?_r=0

CBS
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-202_162-4562850.html

Bloomberg
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a7cuz2auN8RE&refer=africa

The Independent
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/dont-kill-me-she-screamed-then-they-stoned-her-to-death-1003462.html

None of them checked before running the story?

Some of them didn't run the story till more than a week after some of the others, so there was plenty of time to check. Many of those sources are even at times very apologetic to Muslims, so why would they run a "disputed" story as fact? There are media outlets listed there that are from the extreme left and right, as well as from several different countries. If there is evidence that this was all a lie, then you need to show it.

Quantum wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 1:43am:

So the guardian article has been discredited and is disputed? How about these? BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7708169.stm Al-Jazeera http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2008/11/2008111201216476354.html The Mail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1081214/Somali-girl-pleaded-mercy-Islamists-stoned-death-raped.html NBC http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27484976/ns/world_news-africa/t/militants-stone-death-somali-rape-victim/ Huffingtonpost http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-daou/13-year-old-somali-rape-v_b_143452.html ABC http://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-11-02/13yo-adulterer-stoned-to-death-amnesty/190522 Fox http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,445962,00.html NY Times http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/05/world/africa/05somalia.html?_r=0 CBS http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-202_162-4562850.html Bloomberg http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a7cuz2auN8RE&refer=africa The Independent http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/dont-kill-me-she-screamed-then-they-stoned-her-to-death-1003462.html

All the above articles use the same source - an Amnesty report that has been contradicted by eyewitnesses which included journalists.

Amnesty themselves acknowledge that eyewitnesses said that there story doesn't stack up:

Quote:

Amnesty said witnesses originally reported that Duhulow was 23-years-old based on appearance http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/nov/02/somalia-gender

the BBC says that many of the witnesses who dispute Amnesty's claims are journalists:


Quote:

print and radio journalists who were allowed to attend estimated that the woman, Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow, was 23 years old. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7708169.stm

The court says that the woman came to the court admitting to adultery and asked to be punished. She was asked by the court to review her confession three times. She did not recant and never said she was raped.


Quote:

Initial reports had said she was a 23-year-old woman who had confessed to adultery before a Sharia court... ...Court authorities have said the woman came to them admitting her guilt.       She was asked several times to review her confession but she stressed that she wanted Sharia law and the deserved punishment to apply, they said... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7708169.stm

Now why would you accept an amnesty report that has been discredited by eyewitnesses that included journalists rather than the official court records? You would only do so if you had an anti-Islam agenda.

Now seeing as all these reports are based on disputed Amnesty report, I would like to know whether you accept Amnesty accusations of war crimes against Israel - a simple yes or no will do.  ::)


Now do you have a clear-cut undisputed example of a real court ordering somebody to be stoned for being raped?

True Colours wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 10:02am:

Quantum wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 1:43am: So the guardian article has been discredited and is disputed? How about these? BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7708169.stm Al-Jazeera http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2008/11/2008111201216476354.html The Mail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1081214/Somali-girl-pleaded-mercy-Islamists-stoned-death-raped.html NBC http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27484976/ns/world_news-africa/t/militants-stone-death-somali-rape-victim/ Huffingtonpost http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-daou/13-year-old-somali-rape-v_b_143452.html ABC http://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-11-02/13yo-adulterer-stoned-to-death-amnesty/190522 Fox http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,445962,00.html NY Times http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/05/world/africa/05somalia.html?_r=0 CBS http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-202_162-4562850.html Bloomberg http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a7cuz2auN8RE&refer=africa The Independent http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/dont-kill-me-she-screamed-then-they-stoned-her-to-death-1003462.html All the above articles use the same source - an Amnesty report that has been contradicted by eyewitnesses which included journalists. Amnesty themselves acknowledge that eyewitnesses said that there story doesn't stack up: Quote: Amnesty said witnesses originally reported that Duhulow was 23-years-old based on appearance http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/nov/02/somalia-gender the BBC says that many of the witnesses who dispute Amnesty's claims are journalists: [quote]print and radio journalists who were allowed to attend estimated that the woman, Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow, was 23 years old. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7708169.stm

The court says that the woman came to the court admitting to adultery and asked to be punished. She was asked by the court to review her confession three times. She did not recant and never said she was raped.


Quote:

Initial reports had said she was a 23-year-old woman who had confessed to adultery before a Sharia court... ...Court authorities have said the woman came to them admitting her guilt.       She was asked several times to review her confession but she stressed that she wanted Sharia law and the deserved punishment to apply, they said... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7708169.stm

Now why would you accept an amnesty report that has been discredited by eyewitnesses that included journalists rather than the official court records? You would only do so if you had an anti-Islam agenda.

Now seeing as all these reports are based on disputed Amnesty report, I would like to know whether you accept Amnesty accusations of war crimes against Israel - a simple yes or no will do.  ::)


Now do you have a clear-cut undisputed example of a real court ordering somebody to be stoned for being raped?

[/quote]

You are an idiot;

"Initial reports had said she was a 23-year-old woman who had confessed to adultery before a Sharia court..."

Do you understand what that means? The initial (as In; original, first, to start with, etc) reports were that she was 23 years old and had confessed to adultery and wanted to be stoned. It later turned out that she was 13, had been raped, and had begged for her life.  That means the 23 year old claim was the disputed and discredited one. You are getting your timeline mixed up.   

True Colours wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 12:04am:

freediver wrote on Aug 21st, 2013 at 7:03pm: Didn't you previously insist that unless I can find a verse specifically permitting rape it must mean it is forbidden? Islam forbids rape, and hands out a hefty punishment and deterrent: Quote: Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr: When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me...the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: "Messenger of God, I am the man who did it to her. He (the Prophet) said..."Stone him to death..." -Abu Dawood Compare to the West where rapists get locked up in luxury for a couple of years and get fed gourmet food. Or compare to the Judeo-Christian Bible: "If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman" - Deuteronomy 22:28-29 :o Sick. Westerners are soft on rape. Shameful! Justice for rape victims!

Islam has the same punishment for consensual sex. Where sex is forbidden, rape and consensual sex have the same punishment. Where sex is permitted, Islam does not even appear to recognise rape. The only time rape enters into Islamic law is as a way for victims of rape (in some contexts) to avoid being stoned to death for having sex without permission.

In any case you have completely missed the point. This concept of halal being default gets trotted out when it suits Muslims, but they will happily turn it on it's head when it suits them.

freediver wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 12:19pm:

True Colours wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:04am: freediver wrote on Aug 21st, 2013 at 7:03pm: Didn't you previously insist that unless I can find a verse specifically permitting rape it must mean it is forbidden? Islam forbids rape, and hands out a hefty punishment and deterrent: Quote: Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr: When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me...the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: "Messenger of God, I am the man who did it to her. He (the Prophet) said..."Stone him to death..." -Abu Dawood Compare to the West where rapists get locked up in luxury for a couple of years and get fed gourmet food. Or compare to the Judeo-Christian Bible: "If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman" - Deuteronomy 22:28-29 :o Sick. Westerners are soft on rape. Shameful! Justice for rape victims! Islam has the same punishment for consensual sex. Where sex is forbidden, rape and consensual sex have the same punishment.

That is incorrect.

A single man convicted of fornication in Islam - which has never occurred except with self-confession - has the stipulated punishment of being lashed.

If the same man were to commit rape, then depending on the circumstances, there would be many more punishments available for the judge to hand out including, amputation of limbs, crucifixion, execution, imprisonment, and or banishment. On top of this, the offender can be ordered to pay compensation to the victim.

Depending on the circumstances, a rapist may be punished in a number of ways such as execution,



freediver wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 12:19pm:

The only time rape enters into Islamic law is as a way for victims of rape (in some contexts) to avoid being stoned to death for having sex without permission.

That is complete load of bs. In the history of Islam, no court has ever convicted a man or woman of adultery except on the basis of self-confession. So how on Earth is it some kind way out when it has never even happened?

Do you ever feel ashamed of your lies Freediver? Do you feel that it helps to promote your Zionist agenda by telling lies? The more you lie, the worse the Zionists look.



freediver wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 12:19pm:

This concept of halal being default gets trotted out when it suits Muslims, but they will happily turn it on it's head when it suits them.

Completely untrue. But once again, truth is not important to you is it?

True Colours wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 12:57pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:19pm: Islam has the same punishment for consensual sex. Where sex is forbidden, rape and consensual sex have the same punishment. That is incorrect. A single man convicted of fornication in Islam - which has never occurred except with self-confession - has the stipulated punishment of being lashed.

True Colours wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 8:21am:

Everything in the world is halal by default

Unmarried males fornicating is the natural default position in all species.

A bit like breathing air.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 9:22pm:

Rape has been very clearly deemed as haram.

So where is the verse in the Quran that says rape is haram, please cite it for us.

The Quran says allah has perfected Islam in 5/3 so where is this verse prohibiting rape?
www.quran.com/5/3

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 3:48pm:

So where is the verse in the Quran that says rape is haram, please cite it for us.

Islamic law comes from two sources - the quran and the hadith.

In the case of rape, the quran gives the generalised proscription for the respect and equality of women. The specific outlawing of rape is found in the hadith of Abu Dawud Book 38, Number 4366:


Quote:

Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr:     When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her.     She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They went and seized the man whom they thought had had intercourse with her and brought him to her.     She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him).     When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man who did it to her.     He (the Prophet) said to her: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. But he told the man some good words (AbuDawud said: meaning the man who was seized), and of the man who had had intercourse with her, he said: Stone him to death.     He also said: He has repented to such an extent that if the people of Medina had repented similarly, it would have been accepted from them.

There is no verse in the Quran that states rape is haram, what you have done is give a verse that comes from a book that was written over 200 years after the Quran was made into a book.
Allah says Islam is perfected in 5/3 yet despite this perfection muslims have to wait over 200 years for another book to be written which contains this single verse that outlaws exactly what gandalf?
The shia do not follow this book that came 200 years after the Quran

The Quran also says wife beating is halal is that what muslims mean by respect and equality shown to women, why does your link leave this verse out?
Allah says wife beating is halal
www.quran.com/4/34


Quote:

The prophet said- A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife www.sunnah.com/abudawud/12/102

Quote:

The prophet said- None of you should flog his wife as he flogs a slave and then have sexual intercourse with her in the last part of the day. www.sunnah.com/bukhari/67/138

So is it ok to flog your wife like you flog your slave only if you dont have sex with her in the  last part of the day?
I guess with polygamy you could always bang your other wives.

Where does that hadith say rape is haram, there are many other hadeeth where someone admitting to sex outside of marriage are stoned to death.
If they do not admit to it do they get away with it?
www.sunnah.com/bukhari/86/44
www.sunnah.com/abudawud/40/75
www.sunnah.com/abudawud/40/89
Mo even stoned jews to death for adultery-
www.sunnah.com/muslim/29/41

You are absolutely right Baron - the quran makes it clear that women are to be treated with respect and dignity, but at the same time implicitly condones rape.  :P

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 4:09pm:

You are absolutely right Baron - the quran makes it clear that women are to be treated with respect and dignity, but at the same time implicitly condones rape.  :P

...and explicitly condones wife beating, slavery, and plenty of other demeaning things for women.

Remembers, unless it is explicitly forbidden, it is permitted, right?

freediver wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 7:36pm:

Remembers, unless it is explicitly forbidden, it is permitted, right?

So if I convert to Islam I can do everything that is not forbidden by Mohammed?

Really? Everything?

Yep! You can fly planes into buildings, gas entire suburbs, and even jack off to pictures of dead Christian babies. Everything is halal if it isn't explicitly forbidden.

Praise Allah!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCZ-8ugn37E

OR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jFOrXNm5WY

OR- Belphegor !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPWaq0d6uKU

Soren wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 9:54pm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jFOrXNm5WY

She's cute.

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 11:29pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 23rd, 2013 at 9:54pm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jFOrXNm5WY She's cute.

;D

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 5:28pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 3:48pm: So where is the verse in the Quran that says rape is haram, please cite it for us. Islamic law comes from two sources - the quran and the hadith. In the case of rape, the quran gives the generalised proscription for the respect and equality of women. The specific outlawing of rape is found in the hadith of Abu Dawud Book 38, Number 4366: Quote:     Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr:     When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her.     She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They went and seized the man whom they thought had had intercourse with her and brought him to her.     She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him).     When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man who did it to her.     He (the Prophet) said to her: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. But he told the man some good words (AbuDawud said: meaning the man who was seized), and of the man who had had intercourse with her, he said: Stone him to death.     He also said: He has repented to such an extent that if the people of Medina had repented similarly, it would have been accepted from them.

So what about the shia who reject Abu Dawud, do you have any other hadeeth you could try and pass off as outlawing rape that all muslims follow?

So what chance would a woman have in getting someone convicted for zina (illegal intercourse with consent) would it be zip zilch bugger all?

The word of a woman is less than half the word of a man so how can a man be convicted of zina on the word of 1 woman?

Quote:

The prophet said-Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man? The woman said- yes The prophet said-this is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind. www.sunnah.com/bukhari/52/22

There are only 4 ways someone can be convicted for zina and in your hadith the only reason he was stoned to death was because he confessed to zina, if he denied it there is no way he would have been stoned to death on the word of 1 woman.

Quote:

The scholars have listed the ways of establishing proof of zina,and there are 4 ways. 1. Testimoney of witnesses. 2. Admission of the parties concerned 3. Pregnancy of a woman who has no husband or master 4. If the husband engages in li'aan and the wife refuses to take part in li'aan. Sheikh Munajid quotes from the Quran and hadith. www.islamqa.com/en/88051

As we see in the UAE today under sharia law, a woman gets jailed for reporting rape if she does not have 4 male witnesses who saw the penis enter the vagina.
Google UAE (or Dubai) rape victim jailed and read about all those western women who were jailed for reporting being raped without 4 witnesses.

Soren wrote on Aug 17^th, 2013 at 11:40pm:

halal is sharia. boycott it if you think killing animals slowly and painfully is barbaric.

Funny why don't we see calls to boycott Kosher?  Oh, thats right, only Islamophobia is allowed here...   :D :D :D :D

You can have as much halal meat as you like. But to make halal the only type of meat available in places like schools, colleges, hospitals, workplace canteens for the sake of a minority is what should be stopped.



Quote:

Three-quarters of schools under Waltham Forest Council control serve only Halal meat, the Guardian can reveal. A total of 46 schools and academies supported by the local authority order only Halal meat from Waltham Forest Catering, their supplier. Just one school serves both Halal and non-Halal meat and 15 serve meat from animals slaughtered using ‘standard’ methods, a Guardian enquiry has discovered. The news comes after a row erupted at Larkswood Primary School in New Road, Chingford, last month when parents were informed meat served there would be replaced by food prepared according to the rituals of Islam from mid-April. Parents said they had no issue with Muslim children practicing their faith and eating Halal meat but did not want these religious beliefs imposed on their own sons and daughters. A council spokesman said: “All meat provided to local schools is certified by the Halal Food Authority. HFA certified meat is from animals that are stunned prior to slaughter.”

Its a non issue, Halal is as humane as non Halal and your stomach cant tell the difference

ian wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 2:22pm:

Its a non issue, Halal is as humane as non Halal and your stomach cant tell the difference

Indeed. Soren, what exactly is the problem if halal is the only option?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 3:13pm:

ian wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 2:22pm: Its a non issue, Halal is as humane as non Halal and your stomach cant tell the difference Indeed. Soren, what exactly is the problem if halal is the only option?

Well, why insist on halal, then?

I don't quite follow...

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 3:13pm:

ian wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 2:22pm: Its a non issue, Halal is as humane as non Halal and your stomach cant tell the difference Indeed. Soren, what exactly is the problem if halal is the only option?

what exactly is the problem if halal is not an option?

Soren wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 3:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:13pm: ian wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 2:22pm: Its a non issue, Halal is as humane as non Halal and your stomach cant tell the difference Indeed. Soren, what exactly is the problem if halal is the only option? what exactly is the problem if halal is not an option?

Ok, you go into a restaurant. The restaurant is in Collingwood and only serves meat pies. Thats ok for most of the diners because they like meat pies fine, but you come from Sydney and wish to eat something else. Whats the problem?

Soren wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 3:46pm:

what exactly is the problem if halal is not an option?

Because muslims can't eat it. I realise thats a positive in your book, but if its the same meat, same choices - just with a tiny 'halal' sticker on it, how does that affect non-muslim consumers? Win-win for everyone.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 4:32pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:46pm: what exactly is the problem if halal is not an option? Because muslims can't eat it. I realise thats a positive in your book, but if its the same meat, same choices - just with a tiny 'halal' sticker on it, how does that affect non-muslim consumers? Win-win for everyone.

Why can't they eat it. It's the same meat with or without the ritual or the sticker. I hate silliness creeping into broader society.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 3:13pm:

ian wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 2:22pm: Its a non issue, Halal is as humane as non Halal and your stomach cant tell the difference Indeed. Soren, what exactly is the problem if halal is the only option?

If all the meat is halal then muslims will control the meat industry,if they are doing it properly they are not allowed to employ non muslims.

Allah does allow muslims to eat non halal meat if the choice is that or nothing.

Punchbowl KFC, Take note of the sign on fridge door that says not halal, they dont serve bacon and cheese zingers there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8ZxhzAP82s

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 5:29pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:13pm: ian wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 2:22pm: Its a non issue, Halal is as humane as non Halal and your stomach cant tell the difference Indeed. Soren, what exactly is the problem if halal is the only option? If all the meat is halal then muslims will control the meat industry,if they are doing it properly they are not allowed to employ non muslims. Allah does allow muslims to eat non halal meat if the choice is that or nothing.

How do you know they don't employ non muslims?

The main job of the muslim slaughter men is to slaughter the animal, or other aspects of the abboitor, the shipping, processing, final product is supervised and run by non muslims.

Exactly the same conditions are applied by Jews. How come Kosher stickers never caused a problem?

Soren wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 2:05pm:

You can have as much halal meat as you like. But to make halal the only type of meat available in places like schools, colleges, hospitals, workplace canteens for the sake of a minority is what should be stopped.

Why?

I wonder, can there be such a thing as a vegetarian Muslim?

Soren wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 3:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:13pm: ian wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 2:22pm: Its a non issue, Halal is as humane as non Halal and your stomach cant tell the difference Indeed. Soren, what exactly is the problem if halal is the only option? what exactly is the problem if halal is not an option?

Using that rationale we should not cater for people who suffer from any form of food allergy such as to Nuts.

Why should Muslims be denied a meal simply because of your bigotry, Soren?

You can eat Halal food.  A practising Muslim cannot eat non-Halal food.   Easier to cater for their needs, your stomach doesn't notice the difference.

Quote:

The main job of the muslim slaughter men is to slaughter the animal

Can a non-Muslim do it?

ian wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 3:55pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:46pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:13pm: ian wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 2:22pm: Its a non issue, Halal is as humane as non Halal and your stomach cant tell the difference Indeed. Soren, what exactly is the problem if halal is the only option? what exactly is the problem if halal is not an option? Ok, you go into a restaurant. The restaurant is in Collingwood and only serves meat pies. Thats ok for most of the diners because they like meat pies fine, but you come from Sydney and wish to eat something else. Whats the problem?

When in Collingwood, eat like the Collingwoodsmen.
Or didn't you know you were in Collingwood, Dorothy?

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 7:00pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:46pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:13pm: ian wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 2:22pm: Its a non issue, Halal is as humane as non Halal and your stomach cant tell the difference Indeed. Soren, what exactly is the problem if halal is the only option? what exactly is the problem if halal is not an option? Using that rationale we should not cater for people who suffer from any form of food allergy such as to Nuts. Why should Muslims be denied a meal simply because of your bigotry, Soren? You can eat Halal food.  A practising Muslim cannot eat non-Halal food.   Easier to cater for their needs, your stomach doesn't notice the difference.

So being a Muslim is now a mental health issue??  And I have to go along with their mental attitude because I am not as obsessive-compulsive about it as they are?

I remind you - because you need reminding - that their stomach doesn't notice the difference either.

The issue is not whether they should have halal or not at home. The issue is whether everyone else must have halal -  in schools, canteens, workplaces - just to please a minority.

Quote:

I  remind you - because you need reminding - that their stomach doesn't notice the difference either.

Neither do Jewish stomachs, yet kosher food has gone unremarked for decades.

There should be separation of religion and state in (general) public eating places.

A lot of people believe that islam is evil and demonic, why should they be forced to eat meat that has been dedicated to a satanic deity?

Simply present food according to all health regulations.

Why has the perspective got to favour one religious position only?

Secularism / Separation of Church and State should apply, in public places.

Grey wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2013 at 1:04am:

Quote: I  remind you - because you need reminding - that their stomach doesn't notice the difference either. Neither do Jewish stomachs, yet kosher food has gone unremarked for decades.

Because it has never been the exclusive option where Jews are in a minority.

Once more, slowly: the issue is not whether they should have halal or not at home. The issue is whether everyone else must have halal -  in schools, canteens, workplaces - just to please a minority.

moses wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2013 at 8:35am:

There should be separation of religion and state in (general) public eating places.

Holy smoke, so we should do away with all government regulations about eating?  bugger me, you really do have a death wish!   :D :D :D


Quote:

A lot of people believe that islam is evil and demonic, why should they be forced to eat meat that has been dedicated to a satanic deity?

Please quantify "a lot"?  What are your sources for this?  How reliable are they?  The only people who seem to hold that view that I can discover are weirdo way-out wankers who have a mental health problem about other religions.  Why should their opinion be listened to?  They are only a handful.   :D


Quote:

Simply present food according to all health regulations.

People should be allowed a choice, I agree.  However, you seem to want to even deny that!  You are a bigotl!   :o


Quote:

Why has the perspective got to favour one religious position only?

It doesn't, except in your imagination.


Quote:

Secularism / Separation of Church and State should apply, in public places.

So, then no display of religious symbols in public?  Lets rip down all the Crosses on top of churches then.  All the religious signs outside places of worship!  Change all the placenames which include references to religion!  Change all peoples' names with references to religion!   Change all food names with references to religion! 

Or do you want this ONLY to apply to Muslims?  Looks to me like a lot more people will be effected than you realised by your absolutist stance!   ;D ;D ;D

Hot Breath


Quote:

[quote] moses wrote: There should be separation of religion and state in (general) public eating places.

Hot Breath wrote:
Holy smoke, so we should do away with all government regulations about eating?  bugger me, you really do have a death wish![/quote]

You've lost me, the state regulates public eating etc, keep religious demands out of it 


Quote:

[quote]moses wrote: A lot of people believe that islam is evil and demonic, why should they be forced to eat meat that has been dedicated to a satanic deity?

Hot Breath wrote:
Please quantify "a lot"?  What are your sources for this?  How reliable are they?  The only people who seem to hold that view that I can discover are weirdo way-out wankers who have a mental health problem about other religions.  Why should their opinion be listened to?  They are only a handful.[/quote]

You're certainly out of touch with reality, there is a huge amount of media available (internet, print, audio) which demonstrates a distinct aversion to islam by other beliefs. They should not have islam forced on them in a public place.   


Quote:

[quote]moses wrote: Simply present food according to all health regulations.

Hot Breath wrote:
People should be allowed a choice, I agree.  However, you seem to want to even deny that!  You are a bigotl![/quote]

Again your pro islam, anti everything else is showing, health regulations seem to me to be the only necessary dictates in a public eating place, religious observances should not be forced on those who do not want them.


Quote:

[quote]moses wrote: Why has the perspective got to favour one religious position only?

Hot Breath wrote:
It doesn't, except in your imagination.[/quote]

An islamic ritual is being forced on people who do not want it.


Quote:

[quote]moses wrote: Secularism / Separation of Church and State should apply, in public places.

Hot Breath wrote:
So, then no display of religious symbols in public?  Lets rip down all the Crosses on top of churches then.  All the religious signs outside places of worship!  Change all the placenames which include references to religion!  Change all peoples' names with references to religion!   Change all food names with references to religion! 

Or do you want this ONLY to apply to Muslims?  Looks to me like a lot more people will be effected than you realised by your absolutist stance! [/quote]

You seem to have a problem differentiating between church owned property and state owned public property.

I refer you to the following:


Quote:

Soren wrote: You can have as much halal meat as you like. But to make halal the only type of meat available in places like schools, colleges, hospitals, workplace canteens for the sake of a minority is what should be stopped. [quote] Three-quarters of schools under Waltham Forest Council control serve only Halal meat, the Guardian can reveal. A total of 46 schools and academies supported by the local authority order only Halal meat from Waltham Forest Catering, their supplier. Just one school serves both Halal and non-Halal meat and 15 serve meat from animals slaughtered using ‘standard’ methods, a Guardian enquiry has discovered. The news comes after a row erupted at Larkswood Primary School in New Road, Chingford, last month when parents were informed meat served there would be replaced by food prepared according to the rituals of Islam from mid-April. Parents said they had no issue with Muslim children practicing their faith and eating Halal meat but did not want these religious beliefs imposed on their own sons and daughters. A council spokesman said: “All meat provided to local schools is certified by the Halal Food Authority. HFA certified meat is from animals that are stunned prior to slaughter.”

[/quote]

I agree, individuals should not have other people's religious observances forced on them in public places.

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 9:56pm:

Quote: The main job of the muslim slaughter men is to slaughter the animal Can a non-Muslim do it?

????

I am surprised this is still going unnoticed.

moses wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2013 at 12:09pm:

Hot Breath Quote: [quote] moses wrote: There should be separation of religion and state in (general) public eating places. Hot Breath wrote: Holy smoke, so we should do away with all government regulations about eating?  bugger me, you really do have a death wish!

You've lost me, the state regulates public eating etc, keep religious demands out of it 
[/quote]

Then we should see no provision of government certified Kosher meals either.  Nor of Buddhist meals.  Government inspection and certification backs all aspects of food preparation and serving, wanker, not just Halal.


Quote:

[quote][quote]moses wrote: A lot of people believe that islam is evil and demonic, why should they be forced to eat meat that has been dedicated to a satanic deity?

Hot Breath wrote:
Please quantify "a lot"?  What are your sources for this?  How reliable are they?  The only people who seem to hold that view that I can discover are weirdo way-out wankers who have a mental health problem about other religions.  Why should their opinion be listened to?  They are only a handful.[/quote]

You're certainly out of touch with reality, there is a huge amount of media available (internet, print, audio) which demonstrates a distinct aversion to islam by other beliefs. They should not have islam forced on them in a public place. 
[/quote]

Doesn't answer the question asked.  If you are unable to answer the question directly, the cede that your claim is unsupported by anything other than your bigoted opinion. 


Quote:

[quote][quote]moses wrote: Simply present food according to all health regulations.

Hot Breath wrote:
People should be allowed a choice, I agree.  However, you seem to want to even deny that!  You are a bigotl![/quote]

Again your pro islam, anti everything else is showing, health regulations seem to me to be the only necessary dictates in a public eating place, religious observances should not be forced on those who do not want them.
[/quote]

I am pro only giving people a fair go.  Something you refuse to do.


Quote:

[quote][quote]moses wrote: Why has the perspective got to favour one religious position only?

Hot Breath wrote:
It doesn't, except in your imagination.[/quote]

An islamic ritual is being forced on people who do not want it.
[/quote]

An Islamic dietary requirement is being accommodated.  Most people don't give two hoots.  Only Islamophobic bigots do.


Quote:

[quote][quote]moses wrote: Secularism / Separation of Church and State should apply, in public places.

Hot Breath wrote:
So, then no display of religious symbols in public?  Lets rip down all the Crosses on top of churches then.  All the religious signs outside places of worship!  Change all the placenames which include references to religion!  Change all peoples' names with references to religion!   Change all food names with references to religion! 

Or do you want this ONLY to apply to Muslims?  Looks to me like a lot more people will be effected than you realised by your absolutist stance! [/quote]

You seem to have a problem differentiating between church owned property and state owned public property.
[/quote]

You said "in public".  All the things I mentioned are displayed "in public" on the outside of buildings, on people, etc.  There is a reason why Churches put up crosses on top of their buildings - to advertise.  You've declared you don't want religions symbols on display.  Well, "rip'em down!" is what I say!   ;D

OUT WITH ALL RELIGIOUS SYMBOLS.  NO RULES FOR ONE RELIGION?  THEN RULES FOR ALL RELIGIONS APPLIED EQUALLY!

No religious symbols or dietary rules or ceremonies in public.

Let all religions come in "plain wrappings".    ;D

Lets get rid of all the opiates, shall we?   ;D ;D ;D

Grey wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2013 at 1:04am:

Neither do Jewish stomachs, yet kosher food has gone unremarked for decades.

Actually, so has halal. I know that Halal meat has been available here in Canberra since at least the 70s. No doubt at least as long in Sydney and Melbourne.

My parents live in a small country town - and there happens to be a local butcher who sources halal meat. I don't know of a single muslim in the town - but guess what? No one gives a poo  :) Good for us though - and my parent are only too happy to be able to provide meat for us when we visit.


freediver wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2013 at 12:30pm:

???? I am surprised this is still going unnoticed.

Not sure FD. My understanding (which could be wrong) is that the important thing is that the bismilah is uttered during slaughter - not who makes the cut. So it could conceivably be done by two people - one non-muslim slaughterer and one muslim uttering the bismilah. But you know you could always look it up yourself if you are that interested.

Grey wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2013 at 1:04am:

Quote: I  remind you - because you need reminding - that their stomach doesn't notice the difference either. Neither do Jewish stomachs, yet kosher food has gone unremarked for decades.

Because no school, workplace canteen or other secular eating place has dreamed of providing only kosher meat to all their customers, Jewish or otherwise, on the grounds that a minority of them are Jewish.


Let Muslims eat halal. But to make everyone eat halal is not on. Example:
What was supposed to be a welcome-back barbecue for students at Coburg West Primary School has turned into a debate over the Islamic halal method of preparing meat.

Members of the school's Parents and Friends Association believed they were being inclusive when they ordered halal-only sausages for last month's barbie.

But some parents thought it was political correctness gone mad to offer only halal meat.

Geddit?


 

Hotbreath wrote:
Quote:

Then we should see no provision of government certified Kosher meals either.  Nor of Buddhist meals.  Government inspection and certification backs all aspects of food preparation and serving, wanker, not just Halal. & Doesn't answer the question asked.  If you are unable to answer the question directly, the cede that your claim is unsupported by anything other than your bigoted opinion. & I am pro only giving people a fair go.  Something you refuse to do. & An Islamic dietary requirement is being accommodated.  Most people don't give two hoots.  Only Islamophobic bigots do. & You said "in public".  All the things I mentioned are displayed "in public" on the outside of buildings, on people, etc.  There is a reason why Churches put up crosses on top of their buildings - to advertise.  You've declared you don't want religions symbols on display.  Well, "rip'em down!" is what I say!    OUT WITH ALL RELIGIOUS SYMBOLS.  NO RULES FOR ONE RELIGION?  THEN RULES FOR ALL RELIGIONS APPLIED EQUALLY! No religious symbols or dietary rules or ceremonies in public. Let all religions come in "plain wrappings".    Lets get rid of all the opiates, shall we?

The issue is: one minority religion, forcing it's doctrine and rituals onto the majority of people (many of whom are opposed to it), in publicly owned places.

Privately owned places may do as they please within the law.

I say separate religion and state in publicly owned places.

moses wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2013 at 8:35am:

Why has the perspective got to favour one religious position only?

Islam is a political ideology as well as a religion that wants things done the Islamic way.

Cows are sacred to the Hindu and we have a huge beef industry, the Hindu have never asked us to change any laws to suit them and those who i have asked said they were aware of our attitudes towards beef before they moved here and it will never be an issue.

Halal butchers are  cheap it probably has something to do with high numbers of muslims on welfare.

Soren wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2013 at 1:23pm:

Geddit?

no I don't "geddit".

You still haven't explained the problem Soren. Just because a few bigots at West Coburg Primary want to stir some islamophobic sh!t over something that everyone else just doesn't care about? Why should there be choice if it tastes exactly the same? You make about as much sense as saying that its "not on" if all meat comes from the same abbattoir - which in most cases it probably does.

It’s not the old boy’s fault, Gandalf. English is his second language.

We should honour and welcome these types for their fine contribution to our great society.

He does appear to bring with him a detailed knowledge of meat and smallgoods - you have to give him that.

Cheese too, if I’m not mistaken. Cheese too, old boy?

It helps if you speak clearly. They don’t always understand.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2013 at 12:48pm:

Grey wrote on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 1:04am: Neither do Jewish stomachs, yet kosher food has gone unremarked for decades. Actually, so has halal. I know that Halal meat has been available here in Canberra since at least the 70s. No doubt at least as long in Sydney and Melbourne. My parents live in a small country town - and there happens to be a local butcher who sources halal meat. I don't know of a single muslim in the town - but guess what? No one gives a poo  :) Good for us though - and my parent are only too happy to be able to provide meat for us when we visit. freediver wrote on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 12:30pm: ???? I am surprised this is still going unnoticed. Not sure FD. My understanding (which could be wrong) is that the important thing is that the bismilah is uttered during slaughter - not who makes the cut. So it could conceivably be done by two people - one non-muslim slaughterer and one muslim uttering the bismilah. But you know you could always look it up yourself if you are that interested.

Do they usually pay the guy who says the prayer?

Does kosher food preparation require a Jew onsite?

freediver wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2013 at 9:45pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 12:48pm: Grey wrote on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 1:04am: Neither do Jewish stomachs, yet kosher food has gone unremarked for decades. Actually, so has halal. I know that Halal meat has been available here in Canberra since at least the 70s. No doubt at least as long in Sydney and Melbourne. My parents live in a small country town - and there happens to be a local butcher who sources halal meat. I don't know of a single muslim in the town - but guess what? No one gives a poo  :) Good for us though - and my parent are only too happy to be able to provide meat for us when we visit. freediver wrote on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 12:30pm: ???? I am surprised this is still going unnoticed. Not sure FD. My understanding (which could be wrong) is that the important thing is that the bismilah is uttered during slaughter - not who makes the cut. So it could conceivably be done by two people - one non-muslim slaughterer and one muslim uttering the bismilah. But you know you could always look it up yourself if you are that interested. Do they usually pay the guy who says the prayer? Does kosher food preparation require a Jew onsite?

I think it might, FD. How about that Danish salami? Marvellous stuff. I believe it’s made by a chap named Don.

Is he a Dane?

Poor fellow. I’ve seen him on the television. Can’t string more than two words together.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2013 at 5:49pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 1:23pm: Geddit? no I don't "geddit". Why should there be choice if it tastes exactly the same?

Why do insist on halal if it tastes exactly the same?  Why are you trying to apply a standard to me - tastes exactly the same - which you yourself do not accept?

You want halal BECAUSE it is not about how it tastes. It is about Muslim ritual. You want me to accept Muslim ritual. But I am not a Muslim and I do not accept Islam. I most certainly do not accept Muslim ritual forced on me by giving me no choice but halal only.

Don't tell me you don't understand.i

Sorry, old chap, I didn’t quite get that. Can you speak a little more clearly?

The reason i dont care about Halal or non Halal is because saying a prayer when the animal is slaughtered doesnt actually change the meat in any way, the meat doesnt magically become different and start emanating Muslim vibrations. They can stand on their head and recite the alphabet backwards in the direction of Mars while they are slaughtering it as far as I am concerned. It will still be the same meat. Complete non issue.

I went to the Woolworths deli counter the other day and tried to buy some fetta cheese.

Ask me to slow down if you can’t keep up, old boy.

Anyway, I took a ticket and waited for my number to be called. After finalizing another customer’s order, they called my number and asked me what I wished to purchase. I asserted my desire for fetta cheese. Of the Australian variety, thank you very much.

Sorry, old chap, I can’t stomach that foreign muck. Please don’t take offense.

So they pointed at some fishy white paste floating in water and I said, no. Australian, thanks.

They looked at the label.This is Danish, they said.

I want Australian, I said.

But it’s made in Australia, they said.

Well.

I can’t print my immediate response, but I can assure you, I was ropeable. Australian Danish cheese? What if I happen to want just Australian cheese? Or even Danish Australian cheese - will they sell me that?

They checked. No.

I’m not having that. I want Australian fetta cheese.

They couldn’t do it.

Let me tell you, I promised to take my custom elsewhere in future. I wasn’t having that nonsense. If I want Australian, Australian it shall be. I have been shopping at the Woolworths chain for many years. Good heavens, my family has been shopping there for generations.

And they wanted to sell me some foreign muck, supposedly made in Australia, but made to sound foreign.

Nothing personal, old boy, you understand. 

Pathetic, just pathetic. I told them so too. I can assure you, I gave that Indian deli chap a piece of my mind.

I didn’t even give him my ticket.

Can you believe it? Australian Danish cheese.

In the end, I went and bought some from Coles.

http://www.choice.com.au/reviews-and-tests/food-and-health/food-and-drink/groceries/feta-cheese-review-and-compare/page/results%20table.aspx

Good point. Quite right.

freediver wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2013 at 9:45pm:

Do they usually pay the guy who says the prayer? Does kosher food preparation require a Jew onsite?

Who's "they".

I have no idea, and I frankly don't care. Clearly you need to know these things more than me. Baffling indeed that you don't just look these things up yourself.


Soren wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2013 at 10:07pm:

You want halal BECAUSE it is not about how it tastes. It is about Muslim ritual. You want me to accept Muslim ritual. But I am not a Muslim and I do not accept Islam. I most certainly do not accept Muslim ritual forced on me by giving me no choice but halal only.

You're being hysterical. Fact: the vast majority of Australians simply don't give a sh!t. Clearly if non-muslims objected to halal meat, they wouldn't be profitable in mainstream supermarkets and butchers - as it is is today. Your entire case comes down to a couple of hicks down in hicksville at a school BBQ decided to b!tch about something because they had nothing better to do. Everyone else at the BBQ was happy to consume the identical-tasting meat.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 6:21am:

Everyone else at the BBQ was happy to consume the identical-tasting meat.

So why do you insist on halal if it tastes exactly the same?

Anyway, no point bitching Soren - in the end the market will sort it out. I mean its not as if its a great conspiracy to ensure that all meat will one day be all halal. The simple fact of the matter is it is encroaching on our supermarket floors because no one is objecting to it (save you and a couple of hicks at a primary school BBQ). If there really is a groundswell of objections to having halal meat at the supermarket, then it will obviously become profitable for someone to market non-halal-only meat at their business.

Maybe you can start one up S? Chop chop, stop whinging about it and do something about it!

Soren wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

So why do you insist on halal if it tastes exactly the same?

wait - you actually thought halal meat had something to do with the taste??

You know the muslim requirement halal meat - I'm obviously not going into a theological debate about it - with you of all people.

The only thing you need to concern yourself with is that having a halal sticker on identical tasting meat is of no concern to you - it is however a concern for us.

Soren wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 4th, 2013 at 6:21am: Everyone else at the BBQ was happy to consume the identical-tasting meat. So why do you insist on halal if it tastes exactly the same?

It is like Danish, my friend, something we know you like to take. Food is good for all the cultures, isn't it.

Gud is great, no?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:34am:

Anyway, no point bitching Soren - in the end the market will sort it out. I mean its not as if its a great conspiracy to ensure that all meat will one day be all halal. The simple fact of the matter is it is encroaching on our supermarket floors because no one is objecting to it (save you and a couple of hicks at a primary school BBQ). If there really is a groundswell of objections to having halal meat at the supermarket, then it will obviously become profitable for someone to market non-halal-only meat at their business. Maybe you can start one up S? Chop chop, stop whinging about it and do something about it!

That's a lovely dodge.

So why do you insist on halal if it tastes exactly the same?

Karnal wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2013 at 11:04pm:

I went to the Woolworths deli counter the other day and tried to buy some fetta cheese. Ask me to slow down if you can’t keep up, old boy. Anyway, I took a ticket and waited for my number to be called. After finalizing another customer’s order, they called my number and asked me what I wished to purchase. I asserted my desire for fetta cheese. Of the Australian variety, thank you very much. Sorry, old chap, I can’t stomach that foreign muck. Please don’t take offense. So they pointed at some fishy white paste floating in water and I said, no. Australian, thanks. They looked at the label.This is Danish, they said. I want Australian, I said. But it’s made in Australia, they said. Well. I can’t print my immediate response, but I can assure you, I was ropeable. Australian Danish cheese? What if I happen to want just Australian cheese? Or even Danish Australian cheese - will they sell me that? They checked. No. I’m not having that. I want Australian fetta cheese. They couldn’t do it. Let me tell you, I promised to take my custom elsewhere in future. I wasn’t having that nonsense. If I want Australian, Australian it shall be. I have been shopping at the Woolworths chain for many years. Good heavens, my family has been shopping there for generations. And they wanted to sell me some foreign muck, supposedly made in Australia, but made to sound foreign. Nothing personal, old boy, you understand.  Pathetic, just pathetic. I told them so too. I can assure you, I gave that Indian deli chap a piece of my mind. I didn’t even give him my ticket. Can you believe it? Australian Danish cheese. In the end, I went and bought some from Coles.

There is only one type of feta cheese I'm afraid, and that's Greek feta.

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Only greek feta cheese.

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Is Dodoni. Is Goodoni.

Soren wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 10:17pm:

Is Dodoni. Is Goodoni.

No hawkers and canvassers here, old boy. We do have regulations, you know.

This is a civilised board. No cheese-dealing here, thanks.