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Member Run Boards >> Islam >> Islam and irony
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1377772853

Message started by Soren on Aug 29th, 2013 at 8:40pm

Title: Islam and irony
Post by Soren on Aug 29th, 2013 at 8:40pm
A large crowd of Muslims in Afghanistan got so excited, whilst protesting against the Koran burning Pastor from Florida, that they ended up setting light to several buildings including a girls’ school and some shops.

More Qurans were burned in the course of their protests than by Terry Jones. The demonstrations, which started peacefully, quickly turned violent, killing at least nine people and injuring scores in Kandahar City alone. And as protesters vandalized a girls’ school and set fire to shops, Qurans also inadvertently went up in flames. “If they burn a shop, there is a Quran in every shop, so this is a big problem,” says Azizullah Aziz, a perfume and soap salesman in Kandahar City. “People don’t know how to protest.”




Is Islam capable of an ironic view of itself? Or was Khomeini right hen he said that there are no jokes in Islam.



The long answer:

Quote:
Question
It is not allowed in Islam to lie, even when joking. But does it also count as a lie if what the person is saying is simply sarcastic, and the other person knows that it is just mean to be that way. For example, if I am writing something down and someone looks at me and asks: "Are you writing?", and I say: "No, I am playing football." In these cases it is just sarcasm and it is too obvious that it is not true. Please help me out with this one, as so many of us indulge into such minor sarcastic jokes everyday.
Answered by
the Fatwa Department Research Committee - chaired by Sheikh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turayrî
Deliberate lies and falsehoods must not be employed as a means to make people laugh.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Woe to the person who gives a speech to people and lies to make them laugh. Woe to him, woe to him.” [Sunan Abî Dâwûd (4990), Sunan al-Tirmidhî (2315), and Sunan al-Dârimî (2702)]

What you are asking about are sarcasm and irony - rhetorical devices in the language which communicate meanings that are clearly understood from their contexts.

Sarcasm is to say something with an underlying insulting or caustic implication. Irony is a form of expression in which an understood implicit meaning is concealed or contradicted by the explicit meaning of the expression. Sarcasm is often used in conjunction with irony. Both of these modes of speech are often conveyed with a particular vocal intonation when spoken and are sometimes rendered with italics when written, like in: “Great! That’s all I need!” or “Oh, very funny”.

What matters is the honesty of the meaning that is being conveyed by the communication, not the literal implications of the words.

For instance, in the example that you give in your question, a person is writing something down. The onlooker can see this, but asks: "Are you writings something?"

The person who is writing responds to the onlooker’s question by saying: “No, I am playing football.”

What he means is: “Of course I am writing, and it is silly of you to ask.” This is the meaning that is communicated and understood.

In English, there are some phrases that are always ironic. Consider when a person says: “Big deal” or “Wise guy”.

Therefore, ironic and sarcastic statements are not lies, any more than figurative speech is a lie. "He was a lion on the football field" is a figurative statement, not a lie - though certainly the football payer is not a great cat.

In the same way, irony and sarcasm are recognized modes of speech which convey an intended meaning understood by both the speaker and the listener.

Irony and sarcasm are therefore quite different than a joke that is a deliberate lie, where the teller of the joke means to communicate a falsehood. Whether or not the listener is aware that it is a lie, what matters is that the speaker fully intends to communicate by what he says a meaning that is false, with the intention of provoking laughter on account of that falsehood.

And Allah knows best.


Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by gandalf on Aug 30th, 2013 at 9:35pm

Soren wrote on Aug 29th, 2013 at 8:40pm:
A large crowd of Muslims in Afghanistan got so excited, whilst protesting against the Koran burning Pastor from Florida, that they ended up setting light to several buildings including a girls’ school and some shops.

More Qurans were burned in the course of their protests than by Terry Jones. The demonstrations, which started peacefully, quickly turned violent, killing at least nine people and injuring scores in Kandahar City alone. And as protesters vandalized a girls’ school and set fire to shops, Qurans also inadvertently went up in flames. “If they burn a shop, there is a Quran in every shop, so this is a big problem,” says Azizullah Aziz, a perfume and soap salesman in Kandahar City. “People don’t know how to protest.”


That is actually pretty funny - in a really buggered up sort of way.

Coincidence that Afghanistan was the one and only place in all of muslimania that caused a stir in response to the bible burning? I don't think so.


Soren wrote on Aug 29th, 2013 at 8:40pm:
It is not allowed in Islam to lie, even when joking.


Obviously a lie. Don't make yadda tell you to google taqiyya again.

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Soren on Aug 30th, 2013 at 9:52pm

Soren wrote on Aug 29th, 2013 at 8:40pm:
It is not allowed in Islam to lie, even when joking.


Obviously a lie. Don't make yadda tell you to google taqiyya again.[/quote]



So Islam Today is posting lies.
http://en.islamtoday.net/quesshow-7-835.htm

You should declare a fatwah, no?

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by gandalf on Aug 30th, 2013 at 11:32pm
You should get Yadda on to it. I'm sure he has the authority to issue fatwas no?

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Karnal on Aug 31st, 2013 at 12:51am

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 11:32pm:
You should get Yadda on to it. I'm sure he has the authority to issue fatwas no?


That’s right. Y’s a big fan of the fatwa. Irony too.

/Sarc off.

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Soren on Feb 5th, 2014 at 8:29pm
Free Speech Wars: The Blasphemy Fashion Police
by Douglas Murray
February 4, 2014 at 4:00 am


Meet the latest victim of the "Cartoon Wars": Maajid Nawaz, head of the counter-extremism Quilliam Foundation and prospective parliamentary candidate for the Liberal Democrat party. He was on a BBC program discussing free speech and the right to offend, when two students from a London Atheists and Secular Society were present. They were wearing T-shirts with a cartoon strip on them called "Jesus and Mo." The wearing of such T-shirts has become a matter of principle for them since students manning the stall of the Atheists and Secularists society at the London School of Economics freshers' fair last October were asked either to cover their T-shirts up or be physically removed. No prizes for guessing who complained about the T-shirts, but it was not the LSE Christian Society.

This local infringement on freedom of speech caused some embarrassment for the LSE, and the debate over the dreaded T-shirts of hate rumbled on until December when the university authorities apologized for becoming the blasphemy fashion police.

But as everybody who remembers the Danish cartoons affair will remember, these things are never contained. Indeed so fevered is this debate that there are endless Hydra-headed spin-offs each time the cartoon wars crops up. Each time someone tries to chop its metaphorical head off, another cartoon affair pops up somewhere else.

In any event, this time the spin-off was the BBC Sunday morning discussion show on which the students turned up, again with their T-shirts. The BBC refused to show the T-shirts and some artful filming protected the audience from the full horror of having to see a stick-figure called "Mo" saying "How ya doin?" to Jesus, who is saying "Hey."


This "Jesus and Mo" image, featured on t-shirts and in comic strips, is the source of controversy at the BBC and the London School of Economics. (Image source: jesusandmo.net)
During the debate, a number of Muslims pointed out how offensive they found this outrageous image, and how against the feelings of all Muslims it was. And Nawaz was the only one to point out that he, as a Muslim, did not find this offensive at all. Rightly amazed at the BBC's genuflection to a new blasphemy law, when the program had finished, he sent the cartoon out to his twitter followers with a message saying that he thought his God was bigger than to find offense at something like this.

Cue the latest deluge of utter souped-up outrage. Prominent "moderate Muslims" immediately started to pass word around that a great offense had been committed. All around one could hear the sound of old scores being settled. One such figure – who runs an outfit called the "Ramadhan Foundation" announced that he was going to notify not just all Muslim groups but also Islamic countries of the "offense." Subsequently Nawaz began to receive serious death-threats. So serious have they become, in fact, that the UK police appear to have advised him to keep his head down and not make public appearances for a while.

Then emerged the backlash to the backlash. The same figures who had appeared to organize (in the words of one BBC journalist) a lynch-mob against Nawaz complained that they themselves had also been subject to death threats. In some instances this may be true. Two of those who whipped up outrage against Nawaz for tweeting out the cartoon of "Jesus and Mo" were recently on a hit-list of British targets issued by the terrorist group Al-Shabaab. Their offense, in the eyes of Al-Shabaab, was that they had spoken out against the decapitation of Drummer Lee Rigby by two jihadist maniacs in London last year.

All of which is certainly a new riff, but it is on an old tune. Round and round we go in the cartoon wars. And all the time, the underlying problem goes unaddressed. When Nawaz and I debated whether Islam is a "religion of peace" in New York, the scales-falling-from-eyes moment from the audience occurred when it became clear that everybody on all sides of the debate – Muslim and non-Muslim, believers that Islam is a religion of peace and those who believe that it is not – were all the subject to some degree of threat to their lives.

It is the same in the latest round of the cartoon wars. Nawaz rightly said he was not offended by a cartoon. But a bunch of individuals thought he should be and helped whip up a storm against him. In their defense, they then pointed out that their lives were in danger too. All of which reminds us, is anyone ever going to concentrate on what the problem is here?
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4154/free-speech-blasphemy

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Stratos on Feb 5th, 2014 at 8:59pm
I always thought it was quite ironic that the koran was written down by someone who was apparently illiterate.

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Stratos on Feb 5th, 2014 at 9:01pm
i remember a friend of mine used to work at a Christian bookshop, apparently the things that went missing the most were the WWJD bracelets.

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by freediver on Feb 5th, 2014 at 10:00pm

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by gandalf on Feb 5th, 2014 at 10:01pm

Stratos wrote on Feb 5th, 2014 at 8:59pm:
I always thought it was quite ironic that the koran was written down by someone who was apparently illiterate.


Except he didn't write it down  ;)

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Stratos on Feb 5th, 2014 at 10:02pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 5th, 2014 at 10:01pm:

Stratos wrote on Feb 5th, 2014 at 8:59pm:
I always thought it was quite ironic that the koran was written down by someone who was apparently illiterate.


Except he didn't write it down  ;)


What's the story there then?

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Yadda on Feb 5th, 2014 at 10:03pm

Soren wrote on Feb 5th, 2014 at 8:29pm:
....is anyone ever going to concentrate on what the problem is here?
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4154/free-speech-blasphemy


Soren,

I'm a visitor from another planet.

You human beings are very strange creatures.



What is the problem that is presently plaguing all of you 'Earthlings' ?

What is the problem ?

If i turn on the TV news, or tune into a current affairs program, will i then see this nebulous 'problem' which afflicts humanity, actually named and identified ?







+++





IN CONTRAST -
HERE IS SOME DELICIOUSLY FUNNY SATIRE,
WHICH LAMPOONS OUR 'POLITICALLY CORRECT' MEDIA,
AND WHICH RIDICULES THE CREDIBILITY OF MANY SO-CALLED TERRORISM 'EXPERTS'.


Refusing to Name the Enemy in the War on Terror
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpM8qk3t52A


Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Datalife on Feb 5th, 2014 at 10:05pm

freediver wrote on Feb 5th, 2014 at 10:00pm:


LOL, that bloke has to be taking the piss.   ;D ;D

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by gandalf on Feb 5th, 2014 at 10:06pm

Stratos wrote on Feb 5th, 2014 at 10:02pm:
What's the story there then?


Revelation was narrated to him by the Archangel Gabriel, and he relayed it to his followers by mouth - some of them memorized it, and others wrote it down

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Datalife on Feb 5th, 2014 at 10:09pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 5th, 2014 at 10:06pm:
Revelation was narrated to him by the Archangel Gabriel, and he relayed it to his followers by mouth - some of them memorized it, and others wrote it down


That's the way, nothing ridiculous about that at all. 

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Yadda on Feb 5th, 2014 at 10:16pm




Datalife wrote on Feb 5th, 2014 at 10:05pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 5th, 2014 at 10:00pm:


LOL, that bloke has to be taking the piss.   ;D ;D



Datalife,

Ya reckon ???         ;D         ;D

IMAGE....

"Freedom of expression - GO TO HELL!"



Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Stratos on Feb 5th, 2014 at 10:20pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 5th, 2014 at 10:06pm:
Revelation was narrated to him by the Archangel Gabriel, and he relayed it to his followers by mouth - some of them memorized it, and others wrote it down


How does this account for human error?  Just thinking because Muslims believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that the old and new testaments were corrupted from their original form? 

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Pete Waldo on Feb 6th, 2014 at 4:20am

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 9:35pm:
Obviously a lie. Don't make yadda tell you to google taqiyya again.


Come on Gand. Few things are more in vogue or widely practiced, with Islam's Greek sophist styled entertainers and lying antichrists like Ahmed Deedat and Yusuf estes, than lying.
Just look at what they do to Pslams 84.
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1390996044
Let alone the First Epistle of John.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/first_epistle_john.htm

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Soren on Feb 6th, 2014 at 7:57am

freediver wrote on Feb 5th, 2014 at 10:00pm:



And whatever you do, DON'T LAUGH!  That will only hurt their feelings. And you know what happens when you hurt their feelings....
So no laffing, or even sniggering  (if you know what's goo for you) .


Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by gandalf on Feb 6th, 2014 at 1:15pm

Stratos wrote on Feb 5th, 2014 at 10:20pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 5th, 2014 at 10:06pm:
Revelation was narrated to him by the Archangel Gabriel, and he relayed it to his followers by mouth - some of them memorized it, and others wrote it down


How does this account for human error?  Just thinking because Muslims believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that the old and new testaments were corrupted from their original form? 


Like all religions a fairly large leap of faith is required. It is not really intended for scientific scrutiny*, although its certainly not something thats beyond the bounds of possibility. But the point is, it all comes down to muslims believing that it was passed down flawlessly into the form we have today - because thats what God intended to happen.

* as an interesting aside, during the Islamic golden age when islamic philosophy became dominated by a scientific approach, there emerged a dominant idea amongst islamic scholars that the quran was in fact not divine, but man-made

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by freediver on Feb 6th, 2014 at 1:20pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 1:15pm:
there emerged a dominant idea amongst islamic scholars that the quran was in fact not divine, but man-made


Not even divinely inspired?

What happened to this view?

Abu liked to blame the area's degeneration on drifting from the Koran.

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by gandalf on Feb 6th, 2014 at 1:21pm
The picture of the protestor has been photoshopped. This is the original:




Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by gandalf on Feb 6th, 2014 at 1:27pm

freediver wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 1:20pm:
What happened to this view?


I am at this very moment charging my kindle so I can look up the book I read it in.

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by freediver on Feb 6th, 2014 at 1:31pm
Perhaps they all underwent headerectomies.

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by gandalf on Feb 6th, 2014 at 1:43pm
what is a headerectomy?

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Yadda on Feb 6th, 2014 at 2:06pm

IMAGE...



polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 1:21pm:
The picture of the protestor has been photoshopped. This is the original:




gandalf,

These Google hits have not been 'photoshopped'.


Google;
"Death to the Pope for Calling Us Violent"



http://abbagav.blogspot.com.au/2006/09/death-to-pope-for-calling-us-violent.html


MUSLIMS ARE SELF DECEIVERS
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1226196753/0#0

Quote:

MUSLIMS...

"DO NOT CALL US VIOLENT, OR WE WILL KILL YOU."



Saturday, September 16, 2006
The "Death to the Pope for Calling Us Violent" Protests
"......Many Islamist activists are so perturbed that they've taken to the streets to proclaim their seething anger at the Pope for questioning their pacifism."
http://abbagav.blogspot.com/2006/09/death-to-pope-for-calling-us-violent.html

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Datalife on Feb 6th, 2014 at 2:22pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 1:21pm:
The picture of the protestor has been photoshopped. This is the original:




LOL, well clearly that is much better.   ::)

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by gandalf on Feb 6th, 2014 at 2:30pm

Datalife wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 2:22pm:
LOL, well clearly that is much better.


not really.

Anyway, for those who are interested - you can read all about the islamic philosophy that states (among other things) that the Quran is man made and not the eternal word of God:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu%27tazila

http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ip/rep/H052

http://hangingodes.wordpress.com/2005/10/13/creation-of-quran-a-mutazilite-perspective/

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by freediver on Feb 6th, 2014 at 7:33pm
Do any of those links claim that this view became dominant among Islamic scholars during the "golden" age?

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Soren on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:16pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 1:21pm:
The picture of the protestor has been photoshopped. This is the original:




That's alright, then!
Much better!


Round and round we go in the placard wars and the cartoon wars. And all the time, the underlying problem goes unaddressed. When debating whether Islam is a "religion of peace", the scales-falling-from-eyes moment comes when it becomes clear that everybody on all sides of the debate – Muslim and non-Muslim, believers that Islam is a religion of peace and those who believe that it is not – are all the subject to some degree of threat to their lives.

Islam is a very dangerous topic to discuss. THAT is the point Gandy.



Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Stratos on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:20pm
The most ironic thing is that someone decided to forge a poster to make Islam more ironic in the juxtaposition of violence and religion.

As you said Soren, I wonder why anyone would feel the need to bother.

Which of course adds to the swiftly growing pile of irony.

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by freediver on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:23pm
They didn't do a very good job with the V. Surely they could have just inverted the A and removed bits.

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Soren on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:23pm

Stratos wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:20pm:
The most ironic thing is that someone decided to forge a poster to make Islam more ironic in the juxtaposition of violence and religion.

As you said Soren, I wonder why anyone would feel the need to bother.

Which of course adds to the swiftly growing pile of irony.

Islam is a very dangerous topic to discuss. THAT is the point.

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Yadda on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:58pm

Soren wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:23pm:

Stratos wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:20pm:
The most ironic thing is that someone decided to forge a poster to make Islam more ironic in the juxtaposition of violence and religion.

As you said Soren, I wonder why anyone would feel the need to bother.

Which of course adds to the swiftly growing pile of irony.


Islam is a very dangerous topic to discuss. THAT is the point.



Islam is very dangerous.

And ISLAM is 'wrong' [i.e. wicked].

And ISLAM is an inappropriate philosophy for ANY human beings [such as ourselves] to embrace or to tolerate among us.



Q.
Why won't modern mankind DOES modern mankind refuse to acknowledge the truth about what ISLAM is, and about what ISLAM encourages in its adherents ?

'Lawful' murder [for the sake of glorifying of a demon/demons].



Ezekiel 35:10
Because thou hast said, These two nations and these two countries shall be mine, and we will possess it; whereas the LORD was there:
11  Therefore, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, I will even do according to thine anger, and according to thine envy which thou hast used out of thy hatred against them; and I will make myself known among them, when I have judged thee.
12  And thou shalt know that I am the LORD, and that I have heard all thy blasphemies which thou hast spoken against the mountains of Israel, saying, They are laid desolate, they are given us to consume.
13  Thus with your mouth ye have boasted against me, and have multiplied your words against me: I have heard them.


Revelation 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.


A prophecy.....

Deuteronomy 32:15
But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.
16  They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.
17  They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.
18  Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.






By our own choices, we are known.

WHAT IS ISLAM ???


"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..."
Koran 2.193


"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11


"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216


"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123


"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111


"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29



Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Soren on Feb 6th, 2014 at 11:04pm

Yadda wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:58pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:23pm:

Stratos wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:20pm:
The most ironic thing is that someone decided to forge a poster to make Islam more ironic in the juxtaposition of violence and religion.

As you said Soren, I wonder why anyone would feel the need to bother.

Which of course adds to the swiftly growing pile of irony.


Islam is a very dangerous topic to discuss. THAT is the point.



Islam is a very dangerous topic to discuss. THAT is the point.

And ISLAM is 'wrong' [i.e. wicked].

And ISLAM is an inappropriate philosophy for ANY human beings [such as ourselves] to embrace or to tolerate among us.



Q.
Why won't modern mankind DOES modern mankind refuse to acknowledge the truth about what ISLAM is, and about what ISLAM encourages in its adherents ?



Because it is a very dangerous subject to discuss. You cannot openly, honestly discuss it without endangering yourself.



Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Stratos on Feb 6th, 2014 at 11:04pm
yes

Islam is a very dangerous

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Yadda on Feb 6th, 2014 at 11:13pm

Soren wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 11:04pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:58pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:23pm:

Stratos wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 10:20pm:
The most ironic thing is that someone decided to forge a poster to make Islam more ironic in the juxtaposition of violence and religion.

As you said Soren, I wonder why anyone would feel the need to bother.

Which of course adds to the swiftly growing pile of irony.


Islam is a very dangerous topic to discuss. THAT is the point.



Islam is a very dangerous topic to discuss. THAT is the point.

And ISLAM is 'wrong' [i.e. wicked].

And ISLAM is an inappropriate philosophy for ANY human beings [such as ourselves] to embrace or to tolerate among us.



Q.
Why won't modern mankind DOES modern mankind refuse to acknowledge the truth about what ISLAM is, and about what ISLAM encourages in its adherents ?



Because it is a very dangerous subject to discuss. You cannot openly, honestly discuss it without endangering yourself.



Well, i guess that this is Gods way of separating his children from those children of the world.




Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:...

John 8:23
....Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:...

Galatians 4:29
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.




"....for the harvest of the earth is ripe."

Revelation 14:13
And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
14  And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15  And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16  And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17  And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18  And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19  And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.


Joel 3:9
Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
10  Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.
11  Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.
12  Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
13  Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.


Isaiah 26:21
For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.





Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Karnal on Feb 7th, 2014 at 12:33am
Y and the old boy discuss irony.

Comedy gold.

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by gandalf on Feb 7th, 2014 at 6:51am

freediver wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 7:33pm:
Do any of those links claim that this view became dominant among Islamic scholars during the "golden" age?


I don't think so. Dominant may not have been the correct term, but it did flourish and was a leading philosophy. But it did become official state doctrine during the minha, though this actually backfired on the movement as public sympathy was lost as a result of that state intervention (freedom of thought was strong in those days), and public sympathy shifted towards the Hanbal school of thought.

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Soren on Feb 7th, 2014 at 7:19am

Karnal wrote on Feb 7th, 2014 at 12:33am:
Y and the old boy discuss irony.

Comedy gold.



Here's to laughing danger in the face:




A hundred lashes if you don't die laughing.

Oops! Even that is a threat of violence. Full ironingc circle.



Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Yadda on Feb 7th, 2014 at 7:43am

Karnal wrote on Feb 7th, 2014 at 12:33am:

Y and the old boy discuss irony.

Comedy gold.



K,

I don't think i have ever come across an individual who can use so many words [in an online forum], to say to express so little nothing - of the self.

Care to give us an Ullha Akbar K ?


Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Yadda on Feb 7th, 2014 at 7:52am

Proverbs 28:12
When righteous men do rejoice, there is great glory: but when the wicked rise, a man is hidden.
13  He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by gandalf on Feb 7th, 2014 at 11:04am

Yadda wrote on Feb 7th, 2014 at 7:43am:
I don't think i have ever come across an individual who can use so many words [in an online forum], to say to express so little nothing - of the self.


;D ;D on the topic of irony

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Karnal on Feb 7th, 2014 at 11:13am

Yadda wrote on Feb 7th, 2014 at 7:43am:

Karnal wrote on Feb 7th, 2014 at 12:33am:

Y and the old boy discuss irony.

Comedy gold.



K,

I don't think i have ever come across an individual who can use so many words [in an online forum], to say to express so little nothing - of the self.


That's right, Y.


Quote:


Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:...

John 8:23
....Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:...

Galatians 4:29
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.




"....for the harvest of the earth is ripe."

Revelation 14:13
And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
14  And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15  And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16  And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17  And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18  And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19  And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.


Joel 3:9
Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
10  Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.
11  Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.
12  Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
13  Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.


Isaiah 26:21
For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.


Allah Uakbar.

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by freediver on Feb 8th, 2014 at 9:48am

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 7th, 2014 at 6:51am:

freediver wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 7:33pm:
Do any of those links claim that this view became dominant among Islamic scholars during the "golden" age?


I don't think so. Dominant may not have been the correct term, but it did flourish and was a leading philosophy. But it did become official state doctrine during the minha, though this actually backfired on the movement as public sympathy was lost as a result of that state intervention (freedom of thought was strong in those days), and public sympathy shifted towards the Hanbal school of thought.


So how popular was the view? Is it still popular? Your wikipedia article made it sound like it was mostly state driven - to deal with all the competing religious interpretations of "the law".

What do you think of the philosophy?

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by gandalf on Feb 8th, 2014 at 8:47pm
Why don't you read the articles properly FD? Then you will know about as much about it as me.

It did not originate as a state-driven philosophy. It was started by a group of philosophers independent to the state. Only years later did two caliphs co-opt the philosophy, which actually caused popular support for it decline.

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by freediver on Feb 9th, 2014 at 10:13am
Do the articles reveal what you think of the philosophy?

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by gandalf on Feb 9th, 2014 at 11:43am
fair enough you did ask that. I'm just so used to you demanding I do your research for you.

Anyway, I honestly haven't really thought about it. But I'll let you know if I do.

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Soren on Feb 10th, 2014 at 10:39pm

An excellent rant from Canada.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlsr1hkcyAI

"Not here." Indeed.

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Pete Waldo on Feb 10th, 2014 at 11:55pm

Soren wrote on Feb 10th, 2014 at 10:39pm:
An excellent rant from Canada.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlsr1hkcyAI

"Not here." Indeed.


In the same vein:
http://dotsub.com/view/72457cbc-fe18-4053-ae3f-6c7639cf4e79

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Soren on Feb 11th, 2014 at 11:57am
Iraqi suicide bombing instructor accidentally kills himself and pupils
Over 20 trainee suicide bombers and their teacher were killed in Iraq when the tutor mistakenly detonated the bomb




Irony or poetic justice?

Or farce?


Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Karnal on Feb 11th, 2014 at 12:03pm

Soren wrote on Feb 11th, 2014 at 11:57am:
Iraqi suicide bombing instructor accidentally kills himself and pupils
Over 20 trainee suicide bombers and their teacher were killed in Iraq when the tutor mistakenly detonated the bomb

Irony or poetic justice?

Or farce?


An act of Gud. Each will be rewarded in Paradise for their inner struggle against...

Themselves. Gud is great!

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Yadda on Feb 11th, 2014 at 12:48pm

Soren wrote on Feb 11th, 2014 at 11:57am:
Iraqi suicide bombing instructor accidentally kills himself and pupils
Over 20 trainee suicide bombers and their teacher were killed in Iraq when the tutor mistakenly detonated the bomb



Another report of 'innocent' moslems dying,        .....again!

What a tragedy!




Psalms 9:16
The LORD is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. Higgaion. Selah.




Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by Sprintcyclist on Feb 11th, 2014 at 1:09pm

Datalife wrote on Feb 5th, 2014 at 10:09pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 5th, 2014 at 10:06pm:
Revelation was narrated to him by the Archangel Gabriel, and he relayed it to his followers by mouth - some of them memorized it, and others wrote it down


That's the way, nothing ridiculous about that at all. 


ah, and moh said god said moh could change his mind on anything. Moh also said god said moh could have as many wives and sex slaves as he wanted.
that's what moh said.

Title: Re: Islam and irony
Post by wally1 on Feb 11th, 2014 at 1:20pm

Soren wrote on Feb 11th, 2014 at 11:57am:
Iraqi suicide bombing instructor accidentally kills himself and pupils
Over 20 trainee suicide bombers and their teacher were killed in Iraq when the tutor mistakenly detonated the bomb




Irony or poetic justice?

Or farce?


I hardly see any evidence there was a bomb in the car or that it caught on fire.

Car just looked mangled, almost looks like a car has smashed into its side.

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