In just under 60 hours the polls will be close for the election. Voting will be done and dusted for another 3 years.

So tell everyone why you are voting for a liberal government. What will a liberal government do that a labor can't do.

Is the liberal policy on the NBN better then the labor policy? Is the liberal policy on PPL  better then the labor policy on the PPL? Do you think the liberal party will change the the NDIS or leave like it has been legislate? Is the Asylum Seekers policy of the liberal party better the the labor party policy? You can't be voting liberal because they say that they will bring the budget back into surplus, because Abbott has said that it will be 10 years before they can do it and there will be 3 elections before then.

So why do you think that any of the liberal party policies are better the the labor party policies.

Are you voting liberal because the polls are saying that the liberals will win and you like backing a winner and you not voting on their policy?

Had the thread title been "Why I Won't Vote Liberal', I could have supplied an answer.

But, as I will never vote for this pathetic piece of shyt, Abbott and his far-right Liberal mob, I cannot give an answer.

A true, centrist liberal (small-l) party would get my vote, but not these neo-fascists.

Anyone but.

I may just vote Green, knowing how much conservatives despise them.

I have no sympathy for, or loyalty to, a conservative Australia.

John S wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 6:27am:

In just under 60 hours the polls will be close for the election. Voting will be done and dusted for another 3 years. So tell everyone why you are voting for a liberal government. What will a liberal government do that a labor can't do. Is the liberal policy on the NBN better then the labor policy? Is the liberal policy on PPL  better then the labor policy on the PPL? Do you think the liberal party will change the the NDIS or leave like it has been legislate? Is the Asylum Seekers policy of the liberal party better the the labor party policy? You can't be voting liberal because they say that they will bring the budget back into surplus, because Abbott has said that it will be 10 years before they can do it and there will be 3 elections before then. So why do you think that any of the liberal party policies are better the the labor party policies. Are you voting liberal because the polls are saying that the liberals will win and you like backing a winner and you not voting on their policy?

I can think of two things right away. Firstly, produce a surplus, because the Liberals have produced six of the biggest surpluses ever. Secondly, stop the boats, because they have done so once already - until Kevin747 came in. But hey, that doesn't matter because you won't change your vote no matter what. Oh well, your loss.

Kat, I started this thread for maqqa, longy, matty, cods and all the others that are saying that liberals will win.

I bet none of them will post and say why they are voting for the liberal party

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 6:48am:

John S wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 6:27am: In just under 60 hours the polls will be close for the election. Voting will be done and dusted for another 3 years. So tell everyone why you are voting for a liberal government. What will a liberal government do that a labor can't do. Is the liberal policy on the NBN better then the labor policy? Is the liberal policy on PPL  better then the labor policy on the PPL? Do you think the liberal party will change the the NDIS or leave like it has been legislate? Is the Asylum Seekers policy of the liberal party better the the labor party policy? You can't be voting liberal because they say that they will bring the budget back into surplus, because Abbott has said that it will be 10 years before they can do it and there will be 3 elections before then. So why do you think that any of the liberal party policies are better the the labor party policies. Are you voting liberal because the polls are saying that the liberals will win and you like backing a winner and you not voting on their policy? I can think of two things right away. Firstly, produce a surplus, because the Liberals have produced six of the biggest surpluses ever. Secondly, stop the boats, because they have done so once already - until Kevin747 came in. But hey, that doesn't matter because you won't change your vote no matter what. Oh well, your loss.

like I said in the opening post Abbott has said that he won't get a surplus for 10 years and there will be 3 election before then, so that is no reason

Why do you want the boats stop? Does the asylum seekers affect you in anyway personally? If so how do they affect you?


With your answer it just show that you don't think at all

John S wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 6:49am:

Kat, I started this thread for maqqa, longy, matty, cods and all the others that are saying that liberals will win. I bet none of them will post and say why they are voting for the liberal party

You're probably correct, WO.

Either that, or they'll simply turn up to slag-off at anyone who doesn't embrace the 'New Order'.

Honestly, I doubt they even know why they'll vote Liberal.

The economy, boaties, Rudd's looks, the carbon tax non-lie etc are NOT valid reasons.

Stripped of all rhetoric, I think it comes down to greed and selfishness ie wealthfare, and handouts
for everyone BUT the genuinely needy.

There is simply NO VALID REASON to vote Liberal. NOT ONE.

But there are MANY REASONS NOT TO!!

John S wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 6:49am:

Kat, I started this thread for maqqa, longy, matty, cods and all the others that are saying that liberals will win. I bet none of them will post and say why they are voting for the liberal party

well..lets make you lose that BET shall we...


HE WONT WASTE AND PORE OUR MONEY INTO BOAT PEOPLE. FOR 6 LOOOOOOOOOONG YEARS..

HE ISNT MAKING IT UP AS HE GOES ALONG.....

HE WILL CONSULT AND NOT BARGE INTO PROGRAMS BECAUSE HE THINKS HE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT KNOWS ANYTHING.

IF YOU DONT LIKE HIM.. SHOVE OFF.. WE DONT LIKE YOU EITHER...

YOU DONT BELIEVE IN A FAIR GO... WE HAVE GIVEN KRUDD TWO CHANCE EAC H TIME HE HAS BLOWN THEM WIDE APART..


YOU MAY NOT LIKE ABBOTT BUT HE ISNT AS  STUPID
AND NARCISSISTIC AS KRUDD.

ITS A PITY SOME CANNOT WAIT BEFORE THEY JUDGE...

BUT AS WE KNOW LABOR RUSTED ON ARE JUST THAT... POOR LOSERS..

history...

history will tell you Australia is always better under the Liberal Party...

if you don't like Abbott so what... its about the Party and "their" ability to govern and balance a Budget... well... try to after Labor have gotten us into Record debt...

there's never been a harder working opposition party that I've ever seen in my life...

they held this pathetic government to account... every day for more than 3 years and rattled them so much they changed their leader twice...

History shows Labor always wasting Tax Payers money hand over fist... always get us into debt.. always infighting.. full of Union Thugs who have links to Bikies..

they are scum... the whole lot of them...

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae269/oldpom/General/Govt20net20debt.jpg

A BIG DITTO!

Don’t rely on major parties – vote Greens 

Voters who still cling to the tribal belief that there remains significant ideological difference between the two old major parties of Australian politics should have their faith shaken by the fact that Bill Kelty, former ACTU secretary and classical ALP power-broker, has joined former prime minister and classical blue-ribbon small-l Liberal, Malcolm Fraser in endorsing Greens South Australian senator, Sarah Hanson-Young in her fight for her senate seat and maintenance of a Greens federal balance of power.

As the Liberal Party lurches from its original foundations of liberal individual opportunity towards  collective reactionary conservatism, and the Labor Party lurches from its progressive, social justice and workers’ rights roots towards desperate political right-wing populism and expediency, Kelty and Fraser have formed a unity ticket in their support of Greens policy on asylum seekers and refugees. Both are obviously adamant that neither old party has the integrity necessary to be granted a rubber-stamp majority in both houses of parliament.

The old parties are unedifyingly conspiring to shut out the Greens and genuine independents in a direct act of betrayal to many of their grass-roots faithful.

Murky and hypocritical preference deals are being done with obscure and extremist, single-issue micro-parties in what amount to a corruption of to the democratic process, and at potential great cost to Australia’s commitment to basic human rights protections, our most vulnerable and disadvantaged families and a liveable future on a sustainable planet, in a country with a clean energy economy.

The Greens are standing up for these values, goals and principles which are truly the things that matter, for far longer than a three-year election cycle.

Make no mistake – your vote and your values are powerful, for better or for worse.

http://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/story/1754736/dont-rely-on-major-parties-vote-greens/?cs=79



When some here use history as part of their reasoning for voting Liberal, how can you when it's not the same party it was.

Reactionary Conservatism is dangerous.

The main reason more people are voting Abbott is because he is not Rudd or Gillard who both have a poor track records, give Abbott some time in power and he might have one of his own.

Clearly anything the ALP has delivered has both been bungled and has never been born out in the polls even the NDIS.

Also its the governments job to make its case not the voters, the whole premise of the thread is flawed, but look who started it, its not the ALP electing the voters.

John S wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 6:27am:

In just under 60 hours the polls will be close for the election. Voting will be done and dusted for another 3 years. So tell everyone why you are voting for a liberal government. What will a liberal government do that a labor can't do. Is the liberal policy on the NBN better then the labor policy? Is the liberal policy on PPL  better then the labor policy on the PPL? Do you think the liberal party will change the the NDIS or leave like it has been legislate? Is the Asylum Seekers policy of the liberal party better the the labor party policy? You can't be voting liberal because they say that they will bring the budget back into surplus, because Abbott has said that it will be 10 years before they can do it and there will be 3 elections before then. So why do you think that any of the liberal party policies are better the the labor party policies. Are you voting liberal because the polls are saying that the liberals will win and you like backing a winner and you not voting on their policy?

Welcome back Wild One. Can you flush out Deathonadonkey for us? He kept telling us that Abbott would be replaced well before Saturday's election. I'm hoping we get an explanation from him/her/it.

Who will I vote for? The party that will do the least amount of damage to Australia and the least amount of harm to Australians.

salad in

That is how I vote, in fact I voted liberal the first time in the NSW election.

I vote backwards Greens last, the ALP second last because they stink like greens .... after that I just fill them out as I feel. In the last NSW state election there was only 3 candidates Lib/Lab?greens so I was forced into voting Liberal.

salad in wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 7:24am:

John S wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 6:27am: In just under 60 hours the polls will be close for the election. Voting will be done and dusted for another 3 years. So tell everyone why you are voting for a liberal government. What will a liberal government do that a labor can't do. Is the liberal policy on the NBN better then the labor policy? Is the liberal policy on PPL  better then the labor policy on the PPL? Do you think the liberal party will change the the NDIS or leave like it has been legislate? Is the Asylum Seekers policy of the liberal party better the the labor party policy? You can't be voting liberal because they say that they will bring the budget back into surplus, because Abbott has said that it will be 10 years before they can do it and there will be 3 elections before then. So why do you think that any of the liberal party policies are better the the labor party policies. Are you voting liberal because the polls are saying that the liberals will win and you like backing a winner and you not voting on their policy? Welcome back Wild One. Can you flush out Deathonadonkey for us? He kept telling us that Abbott would be replaced well before Saturday's election. I'm hoping we get an explanation from him/her/it. Who will I vote for? The party that will do the least amount of damage to Australia and the least amount of harm to Australians.

He told me he was banned from posting in the political section so has gone elsewhere.

____ wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 7:45am:

salad in wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 7:24am: John S wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 6:27am: In just under 60 hours the polls will be close for the election. Voting will be done and dusted for another 3 years. So tell everyone why you are voting for a liberal government. What will a liberal government do that a labor can't do. Is the liberal policy on the NBN better then the labor policy? Is the liberal policy on PPL  better then the labor policy on the PPL? Do you think the liberal party will change the the NDIS or leave like it has been legislate? Is the Asylum Seekers policy of the liberal party better the the labor party policy? You can't be voting liberal because they say that they will bring the budget back into surplus, because Abbott has said that it will be 10 years before they can do it and there will be 3 elections before then. So why do you think that any of the liberal party policies are better the the labor party policies. Are you voting liberal because the polls are saying that the liberals will win and you like backing a winner and you not voting on their policy? Welcome back Wild One. Can you flush out Deathonadonkey for us? He kept telling us that Abbott would be replaced well before Saturday's election. I'm hoping we get an explanation from him/her/it. Who will I vote for? The party that will do the least amount of damage to Australia and the least amount of harm to Australians. He told me he was banned from posting in the political section so has gone elsewhere.

ahhhhhh some good news from greeny...

Labor have the high ideals and aspire to great things.

However they can not do the basics , they wreck the economy and then we cant afford the great ideas and the promised Utopia.

Labor actually need the Libs in power for ten years or so to earn the money that they can then blow on Disabled minority lesbian puppetry.

I admit you just cant get enough  Disabled minority lesbian puppetry.

The Libs normally say what they believe will happen, not what people want to necessarily hear.

The alp are the opposite.


the alp sold the aust voters a fraud in Rudd, then in Gillard, then in Rudd again. the results show this.

Abbott is a proven performer. He is discliplined physically and mentally and rides a bike.

at the end of the day it comes down to HONESTY..I have yet to hear krudd own up to anything...not once... when he gets asked a too hard question he goes into the bluster and waffle until he hopes everyone has forgotten the question... it happens all the time..


has any ever heard him answer YES or NO.???

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 8:03am:

The Libs normally say what they believe will happen, not what people want to necessarily hear. The alp are the opposite. the alp sold the aust voters a fraud in Rudd, then in Gillard, then in Rudd again. the results show this. Abbott is a proven performer. He is discliplined physically and mentally and rides a bike.

Its common sense, in business its called managing the customers expectations, do not over promise and under deliver...... Abbott was very clear to get that message with his small target politics.

In all honesty, and yes in hindsight ....... I doubt anyone could come up with a better campaign strategy and other then the odd over blown daggy dad moment, Abbott has been the consummate professional, while Rudd has yet again shown us why his own party knifed him.

cods wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 8:12am:

at the end of the day it comes down to HONESTY..I have yet to hear krudd own up to anything...not once... when he gets asked a too hard question he goes into the bluster and waffle until he hopes everyone has forgotten the question... it happens all the time.. has any ever heard him answer YES or NO.???

cods

That is a very pointed question, in the eyes of the ALP and outside elections the ALP has seen fit twice to sack its own leader it selected. Twice we have had a PM that got the job before facing the voters.

The argument (which I supported) was that Rudd was best to take over and I thought Rudd would make the ALP competitive, but your question must be the main reason he has failed, he has come back with unclean hands that he is in denial about. I am sure Gillard will write a book about it, I am sure she knows a ,lot more about Rudd's handy work she is holding onto until after the election.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 8:03am:

The Libs normally say what they believe will happen, not what people want to necessarily hear. The alp are the opposite. the alp sold the aust voters a fraud in Rudd, then in Gillard, then in Rudd again. the results show this. Abbott is a proven performer. He is discliplined physically and mentally and rides a bike.

Abbott is a proven performer

Doesn't matter that it is a proven bad performer ???


He is disciplined physically and mentally

Physically OK mentally debatable.

He rides a bike

OH got it you will vote for Abbott because he rides a bike - you should have said that first? Now I understand.

cods wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 8:12am:

at the end of the day it comes down to HONESTY..I have yet to hear krudd own up to anything...not once... when he gets asked a too hard question he goes into the bluster and waffle until he hopes everyone has forgotten the question... it happens all the time.. has any ever heard him answer YES or NO.???

when he gets asked a too hard question he goes into the bluster and waffle until he hopes everyone has forgotten the question

You didn't watch QandA the other night obviously where Rudd answered all the questions and they were all real rough ones.

How does your incorrect impression compare with Abbott just turning and actually running away when asked an average question that he isn't scripted to answer?

Can we really afford to have Run Abbott Run as our PM - How embarrassing.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 6:48am:

I can think of two things right away. Firstly, produce a surplus, because the Liberals have produced six of the biggest surpluses ever. Secondly, stop the boats, because they have done so once already - until Kevin747 came in. But hey, that doesn't matter because you won't change your vote no matter what. Oh well, your loss.

Firstly, produce a surplus, because the Liberals have produced six of the biggest surpluses ever

As stated the Liberals current position is no surplus in the next decade stated by Both Abbott and Hockey just a few days ago.

All the BS the last years calling Labor poor economic managers on the basis of their inability to produce a surplus and to now openly state that they will do worse is a joke.

A asking just who the poor economic managers are now give the Liberals as the result using their own criteria. They are promising a decade of increasing debt and borrowing while simultaneously committing to spending a mountain of money they don't have.

Now that is a great plan for Australia. Putting Heckle Abbott and Jeckle Hockey in charge of treasury would be like signing them on to co-captain the Titanic.

God save Australia.

I saw this interview recently on "the Real News" (try it - you might find it more informative than the Telegraph) about why the right in the US hates so deeply (notice any similarities) and his reply was that in reality it was because they could not forgive America for electing a Black President. I don't know how much truth there is in that but since then I can't help wondering whether the right wing hates Rudd sooo deeply for saying sorry to the aboriginal peoples. 

____ wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 7:45am:

salad in wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 7:24am: John S wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 6:27am: In just under 60 hours the polls will be close for the election. Voting will be done and dusted for another 3 years. So tell everyone why you are voting for a liberal government. What will a liberal government do that a labor can't do. Is the liberal policy on the NBN better then the labor policy? Is the liberal policy on PPL  better then the labor policy on the PPL? Do you think the liberal party will change the the NDIS or leave like it has been legislate? Is the Asylum Seekers policy of the liberal party better the the labor party policy? You can't be voting liberal because they say that they will bring the budget back into surplus, because Abbott has said that it will be 10 years before they can do it and there will be 3 elections before then. So why do you think that any of the liberal party policies are better the the labor party policies. Are you voting liberal because the polls are saying that the liberals will win and you like backing a winner and you not voting on their policy? Welcome back Wild One. Can you flush out Deathonadonkey for us? He kept telling us that Abbott would be replaced well before Saturday's election. I'm hoping we get an explanation from him/her/it. Who will I vote for? The party that will do the least amount of damage to Australia and the least amount of harm to Australians. He told me he was banned from posting in the political section so has gone elsewhere.

Shame if that is true - there are many worse than him.

Why I will vote liberal

Because sheep always do what their shepherd tells them to do

John S wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 6:49am:

Kat, I started this thread for maqqa, longy, matty, cods and all the others that are saying that liberals will win. I bet none of them will post and say why they are voting for the liberal party

Proof please, leftards.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 8:03am:

The Libs normally say what they believe will happen, not what people want to necessarily hear. The alp are the opposite. the alp sold the aust voters a fraud in Rudd, then in Gillard, then in Rudd again. the results show this. Abbott is a proven performer. He is discliplined physically and mentally and rides a bike.

The Libs normally say what they believe will happen, not what people want to necessarily hear.

Interest rates will always be lower under a coalition government (sure they will), children were thrown over board (no they weren't),

Look at Abbott when the people wanted action on climate he was a supporter of an ETS

Talking to industrialists it was at the same time all BS (what did they want to hear),

When Labor wanted an ETS he wanted a carbon tax,

He said that global warming was a political problem for the Liberals because people believe it: his direct action policy exists only because it is what people want to hear.

His direct action policy - the worst of the lot but the only option he had left after ruling every other possibility out. 

Tony has nothing except what people want to hear, this is the case even when it is clear that he does not believe it himself and his position varies significantly dependant on who he is talking to and what they want to hear.

Tony's beliefs are quite flexible.

RightSadFred wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 7:34am:

salad in That is how I vote, in fact I voted liberal the first time in the NSW election. I vote backwards Greens last, the ALP second last because they stink like greens .... after that I just fill them out as I feel. In the last NSW state election there was only 3 candidates Lib/Lab?greens so I was forced into voting Liberal.

I can't fault your approach. It has to be Australia and Australians first. I'm not interested in the UN or how other nations perceive us.

Apart from some good points others have put up, for voting Coalition, Labor cannot be trusted, EVER, to have the good of the country at heart.  Behind the facade of apologies and heartarming policies like NDIS, is the deep and abiding ambition for as much control as possible.
We escaped a bullet with Capain RedPants Conroy, but if labor got back in, an attack on freedom of the Press/Speech would be high on the agenda.
I'm happy to see the Libs, via Sen George Brandis will be very quickly on to this issue , should they be elected.

Kat wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 6:38am:

A true, centrist liberal (small-l) party would get my vote

What would your example of such a party? The Greens? Socialist Alliance?

Gianna

If one was to be completely un-bias here is the facts on trust.

You know you can not trust the ALP

Your not sure if you can trust the LNP.

This election is more about voting the ALP out (regardless who leads them) then voting the LNP in.

Logically, the ALP have a dreadful track record even the ALP tries to runaway from, Abbott/Libs have played small target politics, politically the right strategy.

RightSadFred wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 3:11pm:

Gianna If one was to be completely un-bias here is the facts on trust. You know you can not trust the ALP Your not sure if you can trust the LNP. This election is more about voting the ALP out (regardless who leads them) then voting the LNP in. Logically, the ALP have a dreadful track record even the ALP tries to runaway from, Abbott/Libs have played small target politics, politically the right strategy.

If one was to be completely un-bias here is the facts on trust.

year right.

You know you can not trust the ALP

Your opinion

Your not sure if you can trust the LNP.

You know you can not trust the LNP

Logically, the ALP have a dreadful track record even the ALP tries to runaway from

Not true.


Abbott/Libs have played small target politics, politically the right strategy.

They have avoided telling the truth about a large number of things they will do. The have been deliberately lying by omission.

Interesting that you are not even capable of pretending to be unbiased.

Dnarever wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 9:42am:

____ wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 7:45am: salad in wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 7:24am: John S wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 6:27am: In just under 60 hours the polls will be close for the election. Voting will be done and dusted for another 3 years. So tell everyone why you are voting for a liberal government. What will a liberal government do that a labor can't do. Is the liberal policy on the NBN better then the labor policy? Is the liberal policy on PPL  better then the labor policy on the PPL? Do you think the liberal party will change the the NDIS or leave like it has been legislate? Is the Asylum Seekers policy of the liberal party better the the labor party policy? You can't be voting liberal because they say that they will bring the budget back into surplus, because Abbott has said that it will be 10 years before they can do it and there will be 3 elections before then. So why do you think that any of the liberal party policies are better the the labor party policies. Are you voting liberal because the polls are saying that the liberals will win and you like backing a winner and you not voting on their policy? Welcome back Wild One. Can you flush out Deathonadonkey for us? He kept telling us that Abbott would be replaced well before Saturday's election. I'm hoping we get an explanation from him/her/it. Who will I vote for? The party that will do the least amount of damage to Australia and the least amount of harm to Australians. He told me he was banned from posting in the political section so has gone elsewhere. Shame if that is true - there are many worse than him.

Ain't that a fact.

Soren wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 3:06pm:

Kat wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 6:38am: A true, centrist liberal (small-l) party would get my vote What would your example of such a party? The Greens? Socialist Alliance?

OLD Labor (pre-Latham).

Pre-Howard (Hewson) Lib/Nats (voted for them in '93).

There are a couple.

If you were trying to paint me (red?) as a Communist, you are way off the mark.

I won't be voting Liberal.

They want to build an inferior nbn, they have less than positive views on homosexuality and their leader doesn't bring anything positive to the conversation.

I won't preference the ALP first either - the big 2 get my 2nd last and last preferences (usually).

I haven't worked out who I will preference 2nd/3rd/4th etc yet though.

John S wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 6:27am:

In just under 60 hours the polls will be close for the election. Voting will be done and dusted for another 3 years. So tell everyone why you are voting for a liberal government. What will a liberal government do that a labor can't do. Is the liberal policy on the NBN better then the labor policy? Is the liberal policy on PPL  better then the labor policy on the PPL? Do you think the liberal party will change the the NDIS or leave like it has been legislate? Is the Asylum Seekers policy of the liberal party better the the labor party policy? You can't be voting liberal because they say that they will bring the budget back into surplus, because Abbott has said that it will be 10 years before they can do it and there will be 3 elections before then. So why do you think that any of the liberal party policies are better the the labor party policies. Are you voting liberal because the polls are saying that the liberals will win and you like backing a winner and you not voting on their policy?

I posted this yesterday morning and not one liberal can say what liberal policy is better then labor policy, not one of you liberals are voting liberals on policies you are just like a mob of sheep. It looks like to me that you do what Murdoch tells you can't any of you liberals supporter think for yourself?

don't come back on here and stared whingeing when Abbott starts to cut thing and if you think you will get something off him you won't unless you are a millionaire.