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Message started by # on Sep 19th, 2013 at 3:52pm

Title: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by # on Sep 19th, 2013 at 3:52pm
Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns

CBC News Posted: Nov 09, 2011 12:46 PM ET Last Updated: Nov 09, 2011 2:34 PM ET



The world is hurtling toward irreversible climate change, the International Energy Agency warns, saying that bold action must be taken in the next five years.

The IEA, in its annual World Energy Outlook released Wednesday, said that the world will lose the chance to limit warming if it doesn't act now.

The IEA’s members include 28 consuming nations. It was formed in response to the oil crisis in the 1970s, but since then its mandate has expanded beyond energy security to include environmental awareness.

The agency prescribed what needs to be done to cap global temperature increases at two degrees above preindustrial levels and predicted the consequences if those steps aren't taken.

A two-degree increase is the threshold beyond which some scientists have said catastrophic changes could be triggered.

The warning came a day after Canada's Environment Minister Peter Kent acknowledged in a speech in Toronto that his government expects to face international pressure at upcoming climate change talks over its refusal to sign on for a second commitment period of the Kyoto Protocol.

Kent said Canada has already declared that it will hold to that position "however acute the international pressure."

The talks begin in Durban, South Africa, on Nov. 28.

IEA pushes energy efficiency

The IEA report pushes for greater energy efficiency and reduced fossil fuel subsidies.

It considers increased efficiency the easiest way to reduce consumption since it has a price incentive built in.

That has become even more important since Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear accident sparked a rethinking of the use of atomic technology previously seen as key to cutting emissions.

"The most important contribution to reaching energy security and climate goals comes from the energy that we do not consume," the report says.

The report says that the current promises to reduce emissions, when taken together, will likely result in an increase of more than 3.5 degrees — and there isn't any guarantee those commitments will even be carried out.

Without them, the picture is bleaker: an increase of six degrees or more.

Despite that. the IEA’s chief economist, Fatih Birol, is not optimistic world leaders are willing to make the necessary sacrifices involved in taking its recommended steps.

"We are going in the wrong direction in terms of climate change," he said in an interview Monday, noting that although governments around the world have put increasing energy efficiency at the top of their to-do lists, efficiency has worsened for two years in a row now.

"After 2017, we will lose the chance to limit the temperature increase to two degrees Celsius," he said.

Birol said the world doesn't lack the technology to tackle the problem — just the political will.

"Even with existing technologies, you can improve substantially, but to do that, you need some price incentives and these price incentives are not there," he said.

In fact, the incentives to consume more have increased: The report said subsidies for fossil fuels have risen past $400 billion US.

Birol said those need to be cut and instead a price needs to be levied on carbon.

Only when "dirty" fuels become more expensive, he said, will governments follow through on their commitments to increase energy efficiency.

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Ajax on Sep 20th, 2013 at 2:42pm
More bullsh!t...........!!!!!!

In 2005 they said that the arctic would be ice free by 2013.

If we don't take action in the next five years.

Ross Garnaut said it would never rain in Australia again....!!

And then we had the years 2011 & 2012.

Polar bears will soon be extinct, yet their numbers have grown from 25000 to 32000 in the last 10 years or so.

That's why we don't hear about polar bears anymore....???

BTW that photo.......FFS....???

CO2 is colorless.....you cannot see it coming out of the stack....????

That looks like (steam) water vapour from boilers.

Still trying to scare everyone sh!tless aren't you......????

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by viewpoint on Sep 20th, 2013 at 2:57pm
World's top climate scientists told to 'cover up' the fact that the Earth's temperature hasn't risen for the last 15 years.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2425775/Climate-scientists-told-cover-fact-Earths-temperature-risen-15-years.html

So much for the green socialist myth perpetuated by fools.





Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by muso on Sep 20th, 2013 at 4:06pm
The denialists are getting more and more shrill as the date approaches for the AR5 release.

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by # on Sep 20th, 2013 at 8:17pm

Ajax wrote on Sep 20th, 2013 at 2:42pm:
More bullsh!t...........!!!!!!
...
Still trying to scare everyone sh!tless aren't you......????
The greatest fool knows no fear.

value.jpg (37 KB | 46 )

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by viewpoint on Sep 20th, 2013 at 9:03pm

muso wrote on Sep 20th, 2013 at 4:06pm:
The denialists are getting more and more shrill as the date approaches for the AR5 release.


Ah yes the AR5, yet another BS "release" .......already leaked.....conveniently, I wonder why that was necessary? These myths just go on and on and on etc....... :D

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Ajax on Sep 21st, 2013 at 10:08am

# wrote on Sep 20th, 2013 at 8:17pm:
The greatest fool knows no fear.


If it is real world data I might sit up and take notice.

But as long as the IPCC doomsday prophecies are coming from computer circulation models (CCM).....???

No need to worry dude relax enjoy life and take it easy...we're not going to be destroyed by AGW..... :D ;D

Remember in 2005 those same CCM predicted that the arctic would be ice free in the year 2013.

They also said temperature will just keep rising in step with manmade CO2 emissions.

Well we have had 17 years of NO warming..!!!!!

And one third of ALL that's ALL manmade CO2 emissions have gone up into the atmosphere since 1998.

Must I go on......!!!!!!

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by muso on Sep 21st, 2013 at 1:16pm
CCM ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCM

What are the computers circulating on? A turntable?

There is no such thing as a Computer Circulation Model. I thought at first you meant a General Circulation Model, but then you were using it in the context of Ocean level measurement and Arctic Ice, so I have no idea what you're going on about. 

Do you?

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Deathridesahorse on Sep 21st, 2013 at 1:38pm

viewpoint wrote on Sep 20th, 2013 at 9:03pm:

muso wrote on Sep 20th, 2013 at 4:06pm:
The denialists are getting more and more shrill as the date approaches for the AR5 release.


Ah yes the AR5, yet another BS "release" .......already leaked.....conveniently, I wonder why that was necessary? These myths just go on and on and on etc....... :D

Says the depressed waffler made only interesting by war!

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Deathridesahorse on Sep 21st, 2013 at 1:40pm
Dear forum: is this true or untrue, "And one third of ALL that's ALL manmade CO2 emissions have gone up into the atmosphere since 1998."?

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Ajax on Sep 21st, 2013 at 1:52pm

muso wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 1:16pm:
CCM ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCM

What are the computers circulating on? A turntable?

There is no such thing as a Computer Circulation Model. I thought at first you meant a General Circulation Model, but then you were using it in the context of Ocean level measurement, so I have no idea what you're going on about. 

Do you?


Playing with words again......!!!!!!

Apart from their behinds...
Where do the IPCC get all these forecasts from....???

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Ajax on Sep 21st, 2013 at 1:54pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 1:40pm:
Dear forum: is this true or untrue, "And one third of ALL that's ALL manmade CO2 emissions have gone up into the atmosphere since 1998."?


Dear Dear Deathridesahorse

Of course it is silly, would I post nonsense.... :-* :-*


Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by muso on Sep 21st, 2013 at 2:11pm

Ajax wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 1:52pm:

muso wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 1:16pm:
CCM ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCM

What are the computers circulating on? A turntable?

There is no such thing as a Computer Circulation Model. I thought at first you meant a General Circulation Model, but then you were using it in the context of Ocean level measurement, so I have no idea what you're going on about. 

Do you?


Playing with words again......!!!!!!

Apart from their behinds...
Where do the IPCC get all these forecasts from....???


I think half the things that you attribute to the IPCC were never stated in any of their reports.  I'd suggest that they come from your blog friends in the form of  Strawmen.

Unless you provide links, we should make the assumption that they were the invention of Christopher Monckton.

Now tell me more about these magic "Computer Circulation models" that predict everything from Ocean levels to Sea Ice extent.

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Ajax on Sep 21st, 2013 at 2:15pm

muso wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 2:11pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 1:52pm:

muso wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 1:16pm:
CCM ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCM

What are the computers circulating on? A turntable?

There is no such thing as a Computer Circulation Model. I thought at first you meant a General Circulation Model, but then you were using it in the context of Ocean level measurement, so I have no idea what you're going on about. 

Do you?


Playing with words again......!!!!!!

Apart from their behinds...
Where do the IPCC get all these forecasts from....???


I think half the things that you attribute to the IPCC were never stated in any of their reports.  I'd suggest that they come from your blog friends in the form of  Strawmen.


Sure sure just like the oceans dropped 7mm because it p!ssed down on Australia in 2010-2011.

But hold on a minute if satellite frequencies can only measure down to 20mm how could it detect 7mm drop in the ocean............????

Wouldn't the instrument have to be more sensitive than the measurement....????

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by muso on Sep 21st, 2013 at 2:16pm

Ajax wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 1:54pm:
Of course it is silly, would I post nonsense.... :-* :-*


You do.

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by muso on Sep 21st, 2013 at 2:27pm

Ajax wrote on Sep 10th, 2013 at 8:58am:
The frequency of the altimeters on satellites cannot be anymore accurate than about 100mm.




Ajax wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 2:15pm:
But hold on a minute if satellite frequencies can only measure down to 20mm how could it detect 7mm drop in the ocean............????


Ajax, You have to be consistent when you tell lies. You need to be able to remember what you said before, or as Mark Twain said:


Quote:
“If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.”

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Ajax on Sep 21st, 2013 at 2:42pm
Truth is Soon said around 100mm.

Then when I look up other references they said down to about 20mm.

So now i'm using the most recent data.

not lying just getting an education.

So are you going to answer the question....???

If satellites can only measure down to 20mm how did they measure the 7mm drop in 2011.....?????

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by muso on Sep 21st, 2013 at 2:46pm

Ajax wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 2:42pm:
If satellites can only measure down to 20mm how did they measure the 7mm drop in 2011.....?????


All satellites are not the same.   Poseidon 3 is a high accuracy altimeter. I already posted the data from the manufacturer, but you chose to ignore it.

Do you understand the difference between precision and accuracy?

If you really want to self educate, the bottom line for estimating the annual mean sea level rise is :


Quote:
When the entire record is assembled, the average rate of sea level rise from 1993–2009 is 3.4 ± 0.4 mm/year. There is considerable interannual variation due to ENSO-related processes, which include the period of lower sea level rise over the last three years of the time series during the recent La Nina event.


http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01490419.2010.491031#tabModule

The precision is predictably higher than the accuracy.

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by perceptions_now on Sep 24th, 2013 at 1:35pm

Ajax wrote on Sep 20th, 2013 at 2:42pm:
More bullsh!t...........!!!!!!

In 2005 they said that the arctic would be ice free by 2013.

If we don't take action in the next five years.

Ross Garnaut said it would never rain in Australia again....!!

And then we had the years 2011 & 2012.

Polar bears will soon be extinct, yet their numbers have grown from 25000 to 32000 in the last 10 years or so.

That's why we don't hear about polar bears anymore....???

BTW that photo.......FFS....???

CO2 is colorless.....you cannot see it coming out of the stack....????

That looks like (steam) water vapour from boilers.

Still trying to scare everyone sh!tless aren't you......????


You do realize that the article, that started this thread, was reputedly derived for comments by the IEA, which could not possibly be considered as a natural ally of the IPCC???

The IEA head honcho's following comments are of interest, at least to some?  -

"Birol said those need to be cut and instead a price needs to be levied on carbon.

Only when "dirty" fuels become more expensive, he said, will governments follow through on their commitments to increase energy efficiency."
 

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Ajax on Sep 24th, 2013 at 2:57pm

perceptions_now wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 1:35pm:
You do realize that the article, that started this thread, was reputedly derived for comments by the IEA, which could not possibly be considered as a natural ally of the IPCC???

The IEA head honcho's following comments are of interest, at least to some?  -

"Birol said those need to be cut and instead a price needs to be levied on carbon.

Only when "dirty" fuels become more expensive, he said, will governments follow through on their commitments to increase energy efficiency."


Are you sure about that....??????


Quote:
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) was established by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) and the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) in 1988. Its main objective was to assess scientific, technical and socio-economic information relevant to the understanding of human induced climate change, potential impacts of climate change and options for mitigation and adaptation. The IPCC has completed four assessment reports, developed methodology guidelines for national greenhouse gas inventories, special reports and technical papers. For more information on the IPCC, its activities and publications, please see the IPCC homepage.

The IPCC National Greenhouse Gas Inventories Programme was managed from 1991 by the IPCC WG I in close collaboration with the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) and the International Energy Agency (IEA) until its transfer to the IPCC's Task Force on National Greenhouse Gas Inventories (TFI) based in Japan in 1999.

http://www.ipcc-nggip.iges.or.jp/

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by greggerypeccary on Sep 24th, 2013 at 3:20pm

Ajax wrote on Sep 20th, 2013 at 2:42pm:
Still trying to scare everyone sh!tless aren't you......????




It's far easier to control a frightened population.

Those with weak minds succumb to the fearmongering quite quickly.



Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Ajax on Sep 24th, 2013 at 3:27pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 3:20pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 20th, 2013 at 2:42pm:
Still trying to scare everyone sh!tless aren't you......????




It's far easier to control a frightened population.

Those with weak minds succumb to the fearmongering quite quickly.


Nice one..... I like.... 8-) 8-) 8-)

We're even being told how they operate......!!!


Quote:
"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."
- David Rockefeller


"We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years... It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries."
- David Rockefeller, Bilderberg Meeting, June 1991 Baden, Germany

“Some even believe we (the Rockefeller family) are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.”
- David Rockefeller, Memoirs, page 405

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Deathridesahorse on Sep 24th, 2013 at 6:24pm

muso wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 2:16pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 1:54pm:
Of course it is silly, would I post nonsense.... :-* :-*


You do.

So, muso o dearest of the dearest,  :-? , is the statement
"And one third of ALL that's ALL manmade CO2 emissions have gone up into the atmosphere since 1998."  actually true or untrue?

  :-?

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by bobbythebat1 on Sep 24th, 2013 at 6:30pm

# wrote on Sep 20th, 2013 at 8:17pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 20th, 2013 at 2:42pm:
More bullsh!t...........!!!!!!
...
Still trying to scare everyone sh!tless aren't you......????
The greatest fool knows no fear.







What a clever cartoon.

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Vuk11 on Sep 24th, 2013 at 6:34pm
I wish someone would make a cartoon, where climate change happened despite cutting out all c02 and the children ask why they wasted their time preventing the inevitable and why all of the people in poverty had to suffer as a result of taxes etc.

Would greatly sum up the skeptics point of view. Then you could have both cartoons side by side at the start of a debate so everyone knows where everyone's coming from instead of the use of arbitrary labels.

Just saying is all....

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by muso on Sep 24th, 2013 at 7:35pm

Vuk11 wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 6:34pm:
I wish someone would make a cartoon, where climate change happened despite cutting out all c02 and the children ask why they wasted their time preventing the inevitable and why all of the people in poverty had to suffer as a result of taxes etc.

Would greatly sum up the skeptics point of view. Then you could have both cartoons side by side at the start of a debate so everyone knows where everyone's coming from instead of the use of arbitrary labels.

Just saying is all....


It's a question of semantics, VUK. Some climate change is as a result of natural drivers and has been throughout history. However in the past 50 or 60 years, the dominant driver that has emerged has been CO2 from fossil fuel emissions.

Try to keep an open mind. I don't think you need to try to deceive using semantics.

The graph should convince you that in terms of CO2 emissions, I don't think were in Kansas any more.

20000yearsbig_001.gif (17 KB | 31 )

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by greggerypeccary on Sep 24th, 2013 at 7:48pm

muso wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 7:35pm:
Some climate change is as a result of natural drivers and has been throughout history. However in the past 50 or 60 years, the dominant driver that has emerged has been appears to be CO2 from fossil fuel emissions, but that is merely a theory: nobody is certain.  It might be true, it might not.  Not enough evidence exists to support the AGW theory at the moment.



Fixed.

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by muso on Sep 24th, 2013 at 8:01pm
It's about as certain as you can possibly get.

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by greggerypeccary on Sep 24th, 2013 at 8:03pm

muso wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 8:01pm:
It's about as certain as you can possibly get.



Simple question, that requires no more than a 'yes' or 'no' answer:  is there any possibility at all that AGW may not be happening?




Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by greggerypeccary on Sep 24th, 2013 at 9:02pm

'yes', or 'no'?

Surely it's not that hard.

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Chimp_Logic on Sep 24th, 2013 at 10:52pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 6:24pm:

muso wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 2:16pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 1:54pm:
Of course it is silly, would I post nonsense.... :-* :-*


You do.

So, muso o dearest of the dearest,  :-? , is the statement
"And one third of ALL that's ALL manmade CO2 emissions have gone up into the atmosphere since 1998."  actually true or untrue?

  :-?


What percentage of the CO2 release was absorbed by the earths oceans?

What is the change in mean temperature for the earths entire surface?



Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by greggerypeccary on Sep 24th, 2013 at 10:57pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 9:02pm:
'yes', or 'no'?

Surely it's not that hard.



Any disciples have the balls to answer?



Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Chimp_Logic on Sep 24th, 2013 at 10:59pm

perceptions_now wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 1:35pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 20th, 2013 at 2:42pm:
More bullsh!t...........!!!!!!

In 2005 they said that the arctic would be ice free by 2013.

If we don't take action in the next five years.

Ross Garnaut said it would never rain in Australia again....!!

And then we had the years 2011 & 2012.

Polar bears will soon be extinct, yet their numbers have grown from 25000 to 32000 in the last 10 years or so.

That's why we don't hear about polar bears anymore....???

BTW that photo.......FFS....???

CO2 is colorless.....you cannot see it coming out of the stack....????

That looks like (steam) water vapour from boilers.

Still trying to scare everyone sh!tless aren't you......????


You do realize that the article, that started this thread, was reputedly derived for comments by the IEA, which could not possibly be considered as a natural ally of the IPCC???

The IEA head honcho's following comments are of interest, at least to some?  -

"Birol said those need to be cut and instead a price needs to be levied on carbon.

Only when "dirty" fuels become more expensive, he said, will governments follow through on their commitments to increase energy efficiency."
 


Sweden has had a price on carbon for almost 25 years. It is currently hovering around the $140 per tonne mark. Pretty high hey?

Swedish carbon emissions are down 8% ON 1990 LEVELS.

Did you get that? DOWN 8% ON 1990 LEVELS.

the Swedish economy has also grown nearly 50% during this period.

Why do you believe that a carbon price and emission trading scheme will destroy your beloved socialist corporate welfare economic insanity?

You have a lot to answer for batman


Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Chimp_Logic on Sep 24th, 2013 at 11:19pm

muso wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 8:01pm:
It's about as certain as you can possibly get.


I suspect that you have come across the term emissions intensity or a quantitative indicator that relates carbon emissions per growth in GDP?

Very interesting spin approach by the AGW fossilized deniers.

This indicator can actually decrease during a period of increasing NET carbon emissions depending on what is happening with economic growth indicators like the GDP.

I am sure the environment and the earths fever will take into account the fluctuations in one of its species internal artificial indicators.

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by muso on Sep 25th, 2013 at 7:29am
The argument I have against that, is that some countries are doing very well both in terms of wealth and the use of renewable technology. You cited Sweden as an example.  Sweden is a very good example  (and I'm sure that you appreciate their past reliance on nuclear fission that helped them along that road)

Premise # 1.Nobody wants to be poor.

I think that's the main stumbling block that leads to all these meticulously constructed arguments  that, although patently false and mind-numbingly superficial, are aimed at dismantling any attempt to divert from the status quo of financial growth.

In the same way, salmon will always swim upstream to spawn regardless of the fact that they will die in the process.

If we have any chance of transitioning to renewable technology, it must preserve wealth. Is renewable technology compatible with wealth and financial growth?

Of course it is, but as long as we have the deep greens who'd rather weave (and smoke) hemp and sing Kumbaya, then there will remain an obstacle to that goal. Those people are the biggest single obstacle to the continuation of civilisation, and they are every bit as bad as denialists, if not worse. 

Our best chance of survival is to create wealth while pursuing clean technology.  - and guess what? I like having the benefits of a market economy. I like technology.

This is where I differ with many posters, but I think that the key to success is environmental capitalism, where capitalism is just an extension of natural processes.

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by greggerypeccary on Sep 25th, 2013 at 8:03am

muso wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 8:01pm:
It's about as certain as you can possibly get.



Is there any possibility at all that AGW may not be happening?

'yes', or 'no' ?


Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Ajax on Sep 25th, 2013 at 8:42pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 10:52pm:
So, muso o dearest of the dearest,  :-? , is the statement
"And one third of ALL that's ALL manmade CO2 emissions have gone up into the atmosphere since 1998."  actually true or untrue?

  :-?


You bet your inflated red arse it is............?????




Quote:
What percentage of the CO2 release was absorbed by the earths oceans?

What is the change in mean temperature for the earths entire surface?


Have a look here banana breath............!!!

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1379999189/0

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by # on Sep 26th, 2013 at 10:20am

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 25th, 2013 at 8:03am:

muso wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 8:01pm:
It's about as certain as you can possibly get.



Is there any possibility at all that AGW may not be happening?

'yes', or 'no' ?

Still trolling, young simpleton? What are the risks?

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by perceptions_now on Sep 26th, 2013 at 5:35pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 25th, 2013 at 8:03am:

muso wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 8:01pm:
It's about as certain as you can possibly get.



Is there any possibility at all that AGW may not be happening?

'yes', or 'no' ?


The answer you're looking for, is YES and it is a logical answer, for various reasons!

That said, let's change the question a little and ask -
"is it likely that Climate Change is Real and that on the balance of probabilities, humanity has impacted & continues to impact on the directions of that Changing Climate?

And again, the logical answer is YES!
 

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by perceptions_now on Sep 26th, 2013 at 6:00pm

Ajax wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 2:57pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 1:35pm:
You do realize that the article, that started this thread, was reputedly derived for comments by the IEA, which could not possibly be considered as a natural ally of the IPCC???

The IEA head honcho's following comments are of interest, at least to some?  -

"Birol said those need to be cut and instead a price needs to be levied on carbon.

Only when "dirty" fuels become more expensive, he said, will governments follow through on their commitments to increase energy efficiency."


Are you sure about that....??????



Quote:
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) was established by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) and the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) in 1988. Its main objective was to assess scientific, technical and socio-economic information relevant to the understanding of human induced climate change, potential impacts of climate change and options for mitigation and adaptation. The IPCC has completed four assessment reports, developed methodology guidelines for national greenhouse gas inventories, special reports and technical papers. For more information on the IPCC, its activities and publications, please see the IPCC homepage.

The IPCC National Greenhouse Gas Inventories Programme was managed from 1991 by the IPCC WG I in close collaboration with the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) and the International Energy Agency (IEA) until its transfer to the IPCC's Task Force on National Greenhouse Gas Inventories (TFI) based in Japan in 1999.

http://www.ipcc-nggip.iges.or.jp/


The IEA has been around since the "Oil Crisis of the early 1970's" and its bias is towards the "BIG ENERGY CONSUMERS/PRODUCERS & OLD ENERGY (FOSSIL FUELS)!

The IPCC has been around since the late 1980's and its bias is to "protect the climate against the human impacts of CO2, which are largely derived from Fossil Fuels"!

And, because the IPCC had the IEA manage one of its Energy progams for a few years, ending in 1999, you think that the IEA would agree with the IPCC, to the detriment of its natural constituency, in BIG Energy Consumers & Producers???   

Well, all I can say is, I know where the IPCC Bias is, I know where the IEA's bias is and I'm pretty sure I know where your Bias is pointing to! 
And frankly wherever your Bias may be coming from, your Logic is a bit Batty!

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by muso on Sep 26th, 2013 at 6:27pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 6:24pm:
So, muso o dearest of the dearest,  :-? , is the statement
"And one third of ALL that's ALL manmade CO2 emissions have gone up into the atmosphere since 1998."  actually true or untrue?

  :-?


It's close enough if you exclude CO2 from land use changes.


Chimp_Logic wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 10:52pm:
What percentage of the CO2 release was absorbed by the earths oceans?


Roughly 30% to date, or 167 GtC.

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by greggerypeccary on Sep 26th, 2013 at 6:36pm

# wrote on Sep 26th, 2013 at 10:20am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 25th, 2013 at 8:03am:

muso wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 8:01pm:
It's about as certain as you can possibly get.



Is there any possibility at all that AGW may not be happening?

'yes', or 'no' ?

What are the risks?



The situations involving exposure to danger.


Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Deathridesahorse on Sep 26th, 2013 at 6:44pm

muso wrote on Sep 25th, 2013 at 7:29am:
The argument I have against that, is that some countries are doing very well both in terms of wealth and the use of renewable technology. You cited Sweden as an example.  Sweden is a very good example  (and I'm sure that you appreciate their past reliance on nuclear fission that helped them along that road)

Premise # 1.Nobody wants to be poor.

I think that's the main stumbling block that leads to all these meticulously constructed arguments  that, although patently false and mind-numbingly superficial, are aimed at dismantling any attempt to divert from the status quo of financial growth.

In the same way, salmon will always swim upstream to spawn regardless of the fact that they will die in the process.

If we have any chance of transitioning to renewable technology, it must preserve wealth. Is renewable technology compatible with wealth and financial growth?

Of course it is, but as long as we have the deep greens who'd rather weave (and smoke) hemp and sing Kumbaya, then there will remain an obstacle to that goal. Those people are the biggest single obstacle to the continuation of civilisation, and they are every bit as bad as denialists, if not worse. 

Our best chance of survival is to create wealth while pursuing clean technology.  - and guess what? I like having the benefits of a market economy. I like technology.

This is where I differ with many posters, but I think that the key to success is environmental capitalism, where capitalism is just an extension of natural processes.

If we have any chance of transitioning to renewable technology, it must preserve wealth. Is renewable technology compatible with wealth and financial growth?

I agree: so at some point we have to ask what wealth is, surely?!!?

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Deathridesahorse on Sep 26th, 2013 at 6:49pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 10:52pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Sep 24th, 2013 at 6:24pm:

muso wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 2:16pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 1:54pm:
Of course it is silly, would I post nonsense.... :-* :-*


You do.

So, muso o dearest of the dearest,  :-? , is the statement
"And one third of ALL that's ALL manmade CO2 emissions have gone up into the atmosphere since 1998."  actually true or untrue?

  :-?


What percentage of the CO2 release was absorbed by the earths oceans?

What is the change in mean temperature for the earths entire surface?

I wish I knew!

Socratic method is surely the way however!!  ;) ;)

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by muso on Sep 26th, 2013 at 6:51pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Sep 26th, 2013 at 6:44pm:
I agree: so at some point we have to ask what wealth is, surely?!!?


Astute. Is this what you mean?


Quote:
Ecological economics is referred to as both a transdisciplinary and interdisciplinary field of academic research that aims to address the interdependence and coevolution of human economies and natural ecosystems over time and space.[1] It is distinguished from environmental economics, which is the mainstream economic analysis of the environment, by its treatment of the economy as a subsystem of the ecosystem and its emphasis upon preserving natural capital.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_economics

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Ajax on Sep 27th, 2013 at 9:41am

perceptions_now wrote on Sep 26th, 2013 at 6:00pm:
The IEA has been around since the "Oil Crisis of the early 1970's" and its bias is towards the "BIG ENERGY CONSUMERS/PRODUCERS & OLD ENERGY (FOSSIL FUELS)!

The IPCC has been around since the late 1980's and its bias is to "protect the climate against the human impacts of CO2, which are largely derived from Fossil Fuels"!

And, because the IPCC had the IEA manage one of its Energy progams for a few years, ending in 1999, you think that the IEA would agree with the IPCC, to the detriment of its natural constituency, in BIG Energy Consumers & Producers???   

Well, all I can say is, I know where the IPCC Bias is, I know where the IEA's bias is and I'm pretty sure I know where your Bias is pointing to! 
And frankly wherever your Bias may be coming from, your Logic is a bit Batty!


Their origins are as you say, but right now this minute...!!!

Big oil is on your side, not because they want to protect the world from anthropogenic CO2 emissions....!!!!

They want to be a part of the carbon derivatives market as most other corporations.....!!

Big oil is on your side.......................!!!!!

Show me otherwise in TODAY's world..............????????

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by perceptions_now on Sep 27th, 2013 at 11:10am

Ajax wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 9:41am:

perceptions_now wrote on Sep 26th, 2013 at 6:00pm:
The IEA has been around since the "Oil Crisis of the early 1970's" and its bias is towards the "BIG ENERGY CONSUMERS/PRODUCERS & OLD ENERGY (FOSSIL FUELS)!

The IPCC has been around since the late 1980's and its bias is to "protect the climate against the human impacts of CO2, which are largely derived from Fossil Fuels"!

And, because the IPCC had the IEA manage one of its Energy progams for a few years, ending in 1999, you think that the IEA would agree with the IPCC, to the detriment of its natural constituency, in BIG Energy Consumers & Producers???   

Well, all I can say is, I know where the IPCC Bias is, I know where the IEA's bias is and I'm pretty sure I know where your Bias is pointing to! 
And frankly wherever your Bias may be coming from, your Logic is a bit Batty!


Their origins are as you say, but right now this minute...!!!

Big oil is on your side, not because they want to protect the world from anthropogenic CO2 emissions....!!!!

They want to be a part of the carbon derivatives market as most other corporations.....!!

Big oil is on your side.......................!!!!!

Show me otherwise in TODAY's world..............????????


BIG Oil and the other Fossil Fuels,are on the side of BIG Oil, Coal, Gas etc!!!

The IPCC is NOT on the side of BIG Oil, because BIG Oil and the other Fossil Fuels, are where a large % of the CO2 impacting Climate Change, comes from!

BIG Oil & the IPCC are at opposing ends of the spectrum and as I have already said, if you think otherwise, then your logic is Batty!

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Ajax on Sep 27th, 2013 at 12:39pm
The bottom line is the big oil companies are actually pushing for carbon pricing, they agree with you that action has to be taken on anthropogenic Co2 emissions.

They want carbon taxes and ETS systems on a global scale so the carbon credit derivatives market get into gear and kick off on a global scale.

The big oil companies are on your side when it comes to pricing carbon..........................!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by perceptions_now on Sep 27th, 2013 at 2:37pm

Ajax wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 12:39pm:
The bottom line is the big oil companies are actually pushing for carbon pricing, they agree with you that action has to be taken on anthropogenic Co2 emissions.

They want carbon taxes and ETS systems on a global scale so the carbon credit derivatives market get into gear and kick off on a global scale.

The big oil companies are on your side when it comes to pricing carbon..........................!!!!!!!!


Why?

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Ajax on Sep 27th, 2013 at 2:42pm

perceptions_now wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 2:37pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 12:39pm:
The bottom line is the big oil companies are actually pushing for carbon pricing, they agree with you that action has to be taken on anthropogenic Co2 emissions.

They want carbon taxes and ETS systems on a global scale so the carbon credit derivatives market get into gear and kick off on a global scale.

The big oil companies are on your side when it comes to pricing carbon..........................!!!!!!!!


Why?


Because the elite moguls that control big oil and the world want to tax you, me and all the people of the Earth on the air we breath.

For some reason or another they also don't want us to have cheap energy at our finger tips anymore either.....!!!


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/29/us-jpmorgan-commodities-sale-analysis-idUSBRE96S04E20130729

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by perceptions_now on Sep 27th, 2013 at 3:14pm

Ajax wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 2:42pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 2:37pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 12:39pm:
The bottom line is the big oil companies are actually pushing for carbon pricing, they agree with you that action has to be taken on anthropogenic Co2 emissions.

They want carbon taxes and ETS systems on a global scale so the carbon credit derivatives market get into gear and kick off on a global scale.

The big oil companies are on your side when it comes to pricing carbon..........................!!!!!!!!


Why?


Because the elite moguls that control big oil and the world want to tax you, me and all the people of the Earth on the air we breath.

For some reason or another they also don't want us to have cheap energy at our finger tips anymore either.....!!!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/29/us-jpmorgan-commodities-sale-analysis-idUSBRE96S04E20130729


The main reason for the higher Prices, IS CALLED SCARCITY!

That said, why would BIG Oil want to take action on anthropogenic Co2 emissions, IF co2 EMISSIONS ARE NOT A PROBLEM?




Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Chimp_Logic on Sep 27th, 2013 at 3:28pm

perceptions_now wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 3:14pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 2:42pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 2:37pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 12:39pm:
The bottom line is the big oil companies are actually pushing for carbon pricing, they agree with you that action has to be taken on anthropogenic Co2 emissions.

They want carbon taxes and ETS systems on a global scale so the carbon credit derivatives market get into gear and kick off on a global scale.

The big oil companies are on your side when it comes to pricing carbon..........................!!!!!!!!


Why?


Because the elite moguls that control big oil and the world want to tax you, me and all the people of the Earth on the air we breath.

For some reason or another they also don't want us to have cheap energy at our finger tips anymore either.....!!!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/29/us-jpmorgan-commodities-sale-analysis-idUSBRE96S04E20130729


The main reason for the higher Prices, IS CALLED SCARCITY!

That said, why would BIG Oil want to take action on anthropogenic Co2 emissions, IF co2 EMISSIONS ARE NOT A PROBLEM?


Actually the big fossil fuel and mining corporations have already made a joint public statement that recommends urgent action be taken globally to mitigate the effects of man made global warming.

And that was in 2003.

You may need to keep up with the debate

(Incidentally, humans have extracted about 1% of the total naturally sequestered fossil reserves in the earths crust. The scarcity claim is rediculous. For human to extract 5% of the total fossil fuel reserves will be terminally catastrophic)

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by perceptions_now on Sep 27th, 2013 at 4:17pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 3:28pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 3:14pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 2:42pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 2:37pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 12:39pm:
The bottom line is the big oil companies are actually pushing for carbon pricing, they agree with you that action has to be taken on anthropogenic Co2 emissions.

They want carbon taxes and ETS systems on a global scale so the carbon credit derivatives market get into gear and kick off on a global scale.

The big oil companies are on your side when it comes to pricing carbon..........................!!!!!!!!


Why?


Because the elite moguls that control big oil and the world want to tax you, me and all the people of the Earth on the air we breath.

For some reason or another they also don't want us to have cheap energy at our finger tips anymore either.....!!!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/29/us-jpmorgan-commodities-sale-analysis-idUSBRE96S04E20130729


The main reason for the higher Prices, IS CALLED SCARCITY!

That said, why would BIG Oil want to take action on anthropogenic Co2 emissions, IF co2 EMISSIONS ARE NOT A PROBLEM?


Actually the big fossil fuel and mining corporations have already made a joint public statement that recommends urgent action be taken globally to mitigate the effects of man made global warming.

And that was in 2003.

You may need to keep up with the debate

(Incidentally, humans have extracted about 1% of the total naturally sequestered fossil reserves in the earths crust. The scarcity claim is rediculous. For human to extract 5% of the total fossil fuel reserves will be terminally catastrophic)


Really? And, what urgent action/s have they taken?

Really? Even those on "Hopium" in the fossil Fuel camp have said we have probably already used between 33%-50% of all the likely extractable Oil and that, together with "exponential Economic Growth optimists" are the main reasons for Oil Price increases of 1,000% plus, since around the end of the last century.
Supply & Demand, those are the 2 Economic basics!

Oh and Coal & Gas are not far behind! 


Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Vuk11 on Sep 27th, 2013 at 4:59pm

perceptions_now wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 3:14pm:
, why would BIG Oil want to take action on anthropogenic Co2 emissions, IF co2 EMISSIONS ARE NOT A PROBLEM?



Because the coal industry is Oil and Gases biggest competitor. Coal pumps out a lot more c02 than the natural gas industry, so if they can get prices on c02 it will hurt coal a lot more than it will hurt them.

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by muso on Sep 27th, 2013 at 5:12pm
I think it comes down to coming to grips with the reality of the situation. Denial is not a useful corporate strategy.

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Deathridesahorse on Sep 28th, 2013 at 2:02am

Ajax wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 12:39pm:
The bottom line is the big oil companies are actually pushing for carbon pricing, they agree with you that action has to be taken on anthropogenic Co2 emissions.

They want carbon taxes and ETS systems on a global scale so the carbon credit derivatives market get into gear and kick off on a global scale.

The big oil companies are on your side when it comes to pricing carbon..........................!!!!!!!!

You're a joke!!

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Deathridesahorse on Sep 28th, 2013 at 2:04am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 3:28pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 3:14pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 2:42pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 2:37pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 12:39pm:
The bottom line is the big oil companies are actually pushing for carbon pricing, they agree with you that action has to be taken on anthropogenic Co2 emissions.

They want carbon taxes and ETS systems on a global scale so the carbon credit derivatives market get into gear and kick off on a global scale.

The big oil companies are on your side when it comes to pricing carbon..........................!!!!!!!!


Why?


Because the elite moguls that control big oil and the world want to tax you, me and all the people of the Earth on the air we breath.

For some reason or another they also don't want us to have cheap energy at our finger tips anymore either.....!!!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/29/us-jpmorgan-commodities-sale-analysis-idUSBRE96S04E20130729


The main reason for the higher Prices, IS CALLED SCARCITY!

That said, why would BIG Oil want to take action on anthropogenic Co2 emissions, IF co2 EMISSIONS ARE NOT A PROBLEM?


Actually the big fossil fuel and mining corporations have already made a joint public statement that recommends urgent action be taken globally to mitigate the effects of man made global warming.

And that was in 2003.

You may need to keep up with the debate

(Incidentally, humans have extracted about 1% of the total naturally sequestered fossil reserves in the earths crust. The scarcity claim is rediculous. For human to extract 5% of the total fossil fuel reserves will be terminally catastrophic)

I find the words in red interesting: where did you get this from may I ask???  :-?

Title: Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Post by Deathridesahorse on Sep 28th, 2013 at 2:06am

Vuk11 wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 4:59pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Sep 27th, 2013 at 3:14pm:
, why would BIG Oil want to take action on anthropogenic Co2 emissions, IF co2 EMISSIONS ARE NOT A PROBLEM?



Because the coal industry is Oil and Gases biggest competitor. Coal pumps out a lot more c02 than the natural gas industry, so if they can get prices on c02 it will hurt coal a lot more than it will hurt them.

Ah, there's problems with this argument!!  ;) ;)

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