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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl Member Run Boards >> Extremism Exposed >> The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1379892909 Message started by Yadda on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 9:35am

Title: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Yadda on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 9:35am

Describing the futility, of trying to accommodate a moslem community, within a non-moslem community, and [irrationally, imo] expecting to achieve a harmonious and healthy relationship between both communities.

Trying to 'accommodate' the members of a moslem community, within a larger non-moslem community, is, imo, the same as a non-moslem community trying to domesticate and accommodate a group of salt water crocodiles - among their own families and children.

It is a task which is fraught with indescribable dangers - for the non-moslem community, imo.

Why so ?

Because, imo, persons who self-declare as moslems are self-declaring, themselves, to be not 'nice' people, to be not peaceful people, are self-declaring, themselves, to be not tolerant, of those who are not moslems.

THE LOGICAL AND REASONING ARGUMENT, MUST ALWAYS BE;
Persons who self-declare as moslems, clearly, are persons who are dedicated to the tenets and laws of ISLAM.

And those tenets and laws of ISLAM seek to actively instil a 'righteous' [and a 'religious'] hostility, and the sense of a 'righteous' grievance, against all persons who are not moslems - BECAUSE, they are persons who are not moslems.

And that is why i say;
Trying to 'accommodate' the members of a moslem community, within a larger non-moslem community, is, imo, the same as a non-moslem community trying to domesticate and accommodate a group of salt water crocodiles - among their own families and children.

And, imo, it is an insane and irrational objective, for any non-moslem community, to try to accomplish this state of coexistence between the members of a moslem community, within a non-moslem community.

A PLEA TO REASON;
If there are those within our non-moslem community who would [still] seek to achieve this state of peaceful coexistence, with members of a moslem community, within a larger non-moslem community - i would ask that those non-moslems [who would argue for coexistence between those two communities] first try to seek out and to study and understand, what form of 'relationship' between a moslem and a non-moslem is MANDATED, within the tenets and laws of ISLAM.

All i can do is to appeal to the reason, of what i hope are a reasoning and a reasonable people [i.e. non-moslems].i+++

"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah:"
Koran 003.028

"O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?"
Koran 004.144

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51

"....the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
Koran 4.101

"O ye who believe! Take not my enemies and yours as friends.....offering them (your) love,..."
Koran 60.1

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."
Koran 3.85

"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..."
Koran 2.193

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of [i.e. for] those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Yadda on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 9:42am

IF WE WILL SEARCH, JUST A LITTLE, IT IS NOT DIFFICULT FOR US TO DISCOVER, TO UNCOVER, WITHIN ISLAMIC TEXTS;

THE MANDATED NATURE OF THE 'RELATIONSHIP', WHICH MUST ALWAYS EXIST BETWEEN THE MOSLEM AND EVERY NON-MOSLEM;

AN EXAMPLE OF THE 'WORLDVIEW' WHICH 'MAINSTREAM' ISLAM TEACHES TO, AND INCULCATES WITHIN, EVERY MOSLEM;

Quote:

Here, for example, are two very illuminating passages from the canonical Life of Mohammed by Ibn Ishaq, as translated by A. Guillaume, and a third passage, from the earliest known Muslim historian.

Ishaq: 204 - "'Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man [Muhammad]?' 'Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.'"

Ishaq:231 - "Muslims are one ummah (community) to the exclusion of all men. Believers are friends of one another to the exclusion of all outsiders."

And here is Al-Tabari, a very early Muslim historian, in book 9, chapter or section 69, reporting words that Muslims believe to have been said by Mohammed himself - "Killing infidels is a small matter to us".

These texts are not fossils from a distant past. They are not dead letters. They are still 'live' and carry tremendous weight in the imagination and practice of many Muslims around the world.
...DDA

Google it.

n.b.
"Killing infidels is a small matter to us"
Mohammed - the prophet of the religion of ~~peace~~ dismembered body parts.

+++

If you want to learn some real facts about the objective nature of ISLAM, look here.....

THE RELIGION OF PEACE
http://thereligionofpeace.com/

AND HERE....

Please watch this YT...
ISLAM - THREE THINGS YOU SHOULD KNOW!!!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OzxiHfWvBGw

AND HERE....

Please watch this YT... goto 4m 30s
Muslims being deceptive Islam EX-Muslims
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZx8cNSC9O0

AND HERE....

Please watch this YT... goto 45 secs
Mohamed Morsi-"The Koran is our constitution -The Prophet Muhammad is our leader Jihad is our path - AND DEATH FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH IS OUR MOST LOFTY ASPIRATION!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8NtiUMOFFg

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Yadda on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 11:15pm

True Colours wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 10:44pm:

READ THE MESSAGE DISPLAYED IN THE IMAGE
This IMAGE reflects that moslems are offended,
because some US citizen is offended,
because Obama and all USA politicians are appeasing ISLAM and the moslem community in the USA [and this US citizen is expressing his civic 'concern' inappropriately].....

+++

IMAGE...

Which is scarier,
1/ That these moslems - at moslem street protests in Sydney, 2012 - fully believe that they have a lawful right to murder persons who are not moslems, because those persons who are not moslems, do not believe what moslems believe ?
OR,
2/ That Australian society, has invited [and continues to invite] moslems to this country, to live among us, AND, that Australian society gives moslems the right to vote for OUR LAWMAKERS?

+++

Google;
Shahadah

The Shahadah is the ISLAMIC declaration of faith [so as to become a moslem].

The Shahadah goes;

Quote:

“There is no god but Allah; Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.”

Longer versions are common, especially those beginning with “I bear witness” or “I testify,” e.g.:

“I bear witness that there is no god but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.”

http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2012/10/what-is-shahada.html

It is not credible, imo, that a person declares himself to be a 'moslem', and that that person, a self declared moslem, is unaware that,
the fundamental tenets and laws of ISLAM, mandate a relationship of everlasting hatred and cultural enmity towards all persons who are not moslems.i
ISLAMIC law....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."

FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 28^th, 2013 at 11:59am

Yadda wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 11:15pm:

True Colours wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 10:44pm:

You really don't get the irony of what the image says, do you, Yadda?

You do know what "muslin" is, don't you?

Or are you as poorly educated as the person who scrawled it?

Muslims aren't offended by it, they like all educated people are mystified by it. ;D ;D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Yadda on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 10:40am

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 28^th, 2013 at 11:59am:

Yadda wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 11:15pm:

True Colours wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 10:44pm:

You really don't get the irony of what the image says, do you, Yadda?

You do know what "muslin" is, don't you?

Or are you as poorly educated as the person who scrawled it?

Muslims aren't offended by it, they like all educated people are mystified by it. ;D ;D

Brian_Ross,

So your argument is that because people make typos on their protest placards, it is questionable as to whether they are worthy to vote ???

Whereas, the moslems at the moslem street protests in Sydney, 2012 - who are promoting the murder of persons who do not believe what they believe - could perhaps be 'more' eligible to vote, in a country like Australia [because those moslems did not make typos on their protest placards] ?

IMAGE...

The right to vote, should be reserved for persons who have demonstrated that they are educated people [note; no typos in their protest placards].

:P

Brian_Ross,

I do believe [it is my opinion] that moslems, or other criminals, should NOT have an automatic right to vote for OUR LAWMAKERS, simply because they are resident in Australia.

Q.
Why shouldn't any moslem have the right to elect lawmakers, in any society which has chosen to embrace and maintain pluralism in society ?

A.
Because a moslem is a person who them self, choose to embrace and to promotes the [violent and intolerant] tenets and laws of ISLAM. And because, ISLAM is a political philosophy which is violently intolerant of any and every political view which does not align with the political views which are expressed by ISLAM and its tenets and laws - which is demonstrated, by the behaviour of moslems, wherever they go in the world;

"I absolutely insist that freedom of expression must be banned!"

MOSLEMS = = mentally incompetent, un-reasoning, and an un-reasonable, human beings.

To give such people [moslems] the right to vote for OUR LAWMAKERS, in a country like Australia, is imo, an act of insanity.

+++

Yadda.....
".....moslems, or other criminals," ???

Villawood Detention Centre fires under control,

Yadda wrote on Apr 21^st, 2011 at 1:47pm:

From what i know, from my study, of ISLAM's own texts, and doctrines, i would confidently make this statement;

Every good moslem in Australia [and indeed, every good moslem on the planet], by **self declaring** as a moslem, is self declaring a criminal intent [by our laws] against local non-moslems.

Every moslem!

Every non-moslem should be aware and recognise, that ISLAM is in fact, a criminal compact among moslems, to wage a violent 'religious' war against ALL non-moslems ['unbelievers'].

And in my estimation, every good moslem **does understand** what his/her **religious** OBLIGATION is, to ISLAM, and to fellow moslems.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 1:02pm

Yadda wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 10:40am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 28^th, 2013 at 11:59am:

Yadda wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 11:15pm:

True Colours wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 10:44pm:

You really don't get the irony of what the image says, do you, Yadda?

You do know what "muslin" is, don't you?

Or are you as poorly educated as the person who scrawled it?

Muslims aren't offended by it, they like all educated people are mystified by it. ;D ;D

Brian_Ross,

So your argument is that because people make typos on their protest placards, it is questionable as to whether they are worthy to vote ???

Yes. One would prefer an educated electorate over an uneducated one, Yadda. You're a perfect example, actually, who prefers faith over knowledge. ::)

Quote:

Whereas, the moslems at the moslem street protests in Sydney, 2012 - who are promoting the murder of persons who do not believe what they believe - could perhaps be 'more' eligible to vote, in a country like Australia [because those moslems did not make typos on their protest placards] ?

I never claimed all Muslims are well-educated, Yadda. I would expect that in many of their cases, English is a second language, so they may be excused to some degree. The American who scrawled that original placard doesn't have that excuse. He's just badly educated.

Quote:

Brian_Ross,

I do believe [it is my opinion] that moslems, or other criminals, should NOT have an automatic right to vote for OUR LAWMAKERS, simply because they are resident in Australia.

"or other criminals". So you believe all Muslims are criminals, Yadda?

And of course, you're not prejudiced, are you? Bigot. ::)

As for Muslims and their views on Pluralism, perhaps you don't detect the irony of you attacking them, do you? ::) ::)

"Islamic Extremism is to Islam as Yadda is to Christianity". Care to discuss that? ;)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Yadda on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 1:47pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 1:02pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 10:40am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 28^th, 2013 at 11:59am:

Yadda wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 11:15pm:

True Colours wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 10:44pm:

You really don't get the irony of what the image says, do you, Yadda?

You do know what "muslin" is, don't you?

Or are you as poorly educated as the person who scrawled it?

Muslims aren't offended by it, they like all educated people are mystified by it. ;D ;D

Brian_Ross,

So your argument is that because people make typos on their protest placards, it is questionable as to whether they are worthy to vote ???

Yes. One would prefer an educated electorate over an uneducated one, Yadda.

You're a perfect example, actually, who prefers faith over knowledge. ::)

Brian_Ross,

That is your opinion.

If i seek what is true, is the 'faith' that i hold absolutely certain ?

No.

Whereas, a rationalist like yourself, can choose to ignore what is patently true [e.g. about ISLAM], if it offends your 'common sense'.

Correct brian ?

e.g.
The contents of ISLAM's foundation texts can have little or no bearing upon the tenets and laws of ISLAM [and what it means, to be a moslem in the modern world], so lets pretend that the contents of ISLAM's foundation texts are merely 'ancient manuscripts'.

Correct brian ?

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Yadda on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 2:00pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 1:02pm:

I never claimed all Muslims are well-educated, Yadda. I would expect that in many of their cases, English is a second language, so they may be excused to some degree.

The American who scrawled that original placard doesn't have that excuse. He's just badly educated.

Brian,

Oh.

And who is he ???

You seem to be certain that he is an 'American'.

That isn't very clever of you.

'The American who scrawled that original placard' may not even be American born.

It is just an assumption on ~~our~~ your part.

Brian,

How can we know that the provocative text on the placard was not written in fact, by a moslem, as a local 'provocation', for the moslem community to 'point' to ?

Moslems do, do that.

They often manufacture and fabricate 'evidence' to 'prove' their 'victimhood' and their persecution by non-moslems.

That is the kind of people ALL moslems are.

e.g.
Do you remember the name;
Carnita Matthews
???

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Yadda on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 2:51pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 1:02pm:

"or other criminals". So you believe all Muslims are criminals, Yadda?

Absolutely.

brian,

How would you describe a group of people who join, or freely remains members of an organisation, which teaches its members that it is 'lawful' ['lawful' in their society], to murder people who do not believe as they believe ?

AGAIN.....
Villawood Detention Centre fires under control,

Yadda wrote on Apr 21^st, 2011 at 1:47pm:

i

Quote:

And of course, you're not prejudiced, are you?

Bigot. ::)

Oh.

I'm a bigot ?

But brian, these moslems [in the image below], are merely persons who are exercising their right of freedom of speech on a Sydney street. Right ?....

IMAGE...

Of course!

And i am the one WHO IS, PREJUDICED IN MY VIEWS/OPINIONS.

But you are the one who IS NOT PREJUDICED IN YOUR VIEWS/OPINIONS.

Correct, brian ?

SO,

Yadda - critical of moslems/ISLAM inciting murder - BIGOT!!!!!

Moslems - on a Sydney street, with placards inciting murder [of non-moslems] - NOT BIGOTS !!!!!

"And of course, you're not prejudiced, are you".....brian ?i

Dictionary;
bigot = =
1 a person who is prejudiced in their views and intolerant of the opinions of others.
2 a person who expresses an opinion/view which does not coincide with the opinion/views of Brian_Ross.

Bigots, are those people who are,
".....intolerant of the opinions of others."

In actual fact brian, i fully support the right of other people [especially moslems] to 'broadcast' their views and the right to make their views and opinions known to others.

All i ask is that moslems convey their views and opinions truthfully, and candidly.

And if they do not, then i [like many others today] will rebuke moslems - for deceitfully trying to spread their philosophy of intimidation, violence, and for moslems being barefaced LIARS.

Does my scrutiny and criticism of ISLAM [and moslems] define as me a bigot ?

brian,

If moslems can find fault with my criticism of ISLAM [and their behaviour] then let moslems declare [in this public forum] what my errors are.

And we will debate and argue.

And those who view our arguments [in this public forum] can decide, who has the best, most valid, most credible, arguments.i

Quote:

As for Muslims and their views on Pluralism, perhaps you don't detect the irony of you attacking them, do you? ::) ::)

I do not believe that my criticism of ISLAM, discredits me, as person who claims to support pluralist ideals [i.e. the right to choose].

I choose my own path.

And i do encourage all others to choose their own path.

It is ISLAM/moslems which try to violently prohibit the choice of a path, which is not ISLAM.

brian,

I think that i must alert you to the fact that 'Moslems for Pluralism' is a fake movement.

And you are the dupe of moslems.

ISLAMIC law....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."

FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260ii

Quote:

"Islamic Extremism is to Islam as Yadda is to Christianity". Care to discuss that? ;)

What ?

I'm an extremist then ?

Because i rebuke and criticise moslem lying and deception ?

I'm an extremist because i criticise moslems for seeking to INTENTIONALLY misrepresent ISLAM to Australians, who are ignorant about ISLAM's tenets and laws ?

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Yadda on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 3:32pm

Yadda wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 2:51pm:

ISLAMIC law....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."

FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

Dictionary;
bigot = =
1 a person who is prejudiced in their views and intolerant of the opinions of others.
2 a person who expresses an opinion/view which does not coincide with the opinion/views of Brian_Ross.

Bigots, are those people who are,
".....intolerant of the opinions of others."

brian,

If the act of bigotry, involves being intolerant of the expressed opinions of others;

And if 'mainstream' ISLAM [within its published religious doctrine] expresses ISLAM's intolerance of the 'expressed opinions' of others - that they do not want to become moslems;

Then is ISLAM the purveyor of violent religious bigotry in the world ?

FOR SUPPORTING EVIDENCE,
SEE THE HADITH QUOTE, IN THE ENCLOSED QUOTE [above], AND SEE THE KORAN VERSE, BELOW.....

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."
Koran 3.85

"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..."
Koran 2.193

OR, is it only bigotry when Yadda is critical of ISLAM's hypocrisy and lies ?

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 5:35pm

Yadda wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 1:47pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 1:02pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 10:40am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 28^th, 2013 at 11:59am:

Yadda wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 11:15pm:

True Colours wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 10:44pm:

You really don't get the irony of what the image says, do you, Yadda?

You do know what "muslin" is, don't you?

Or are you as poorly educated as the person who scrawled it?

Muslims aren't offended by it, they like all educated people are mystified by it. ;D ;D

Brian_Ross,

So your argument is that because people make typos on their protest placards, it is questionable as to whether they are worthy to vote ???

Yes. One would prefer an educated electorate over an uneducated one, Yadda.

You're a perfect example, actually, who prefers faith over knowledge. ::)

Brian_Ross,

That is your opinion.

Yes. Do you have a problem with it for some reason? Why?

Quote:

If i seek what is true, is the 'faith' that i hold absolutely certain ?

No.

Yet you appear to believe the reverse, if your comments are anything to go by, Yadda. Are you being disingenuous? ::) ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 5:43pm

Yadda wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 2:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 1:02pm:

"or other criminals". So you believe all Muslims are criminals, Yadda?

As Christians have for the last 2,000 years?

Or aren't you willing to admit to that, Yadda?

Quote:

[quote]
And of course, you're not prejudiced, are you?

Bigot. ::)

Oh.

I'm a bigot ?
[/quote]

Yes. You proved it by declaring all Muslims "criminals", Yadda.

Tell me is this Muslim a "criminal"?

::) ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 5:48pm

Yadda wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 2:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 1:02pm:

"Islamic Extremism is to Islam as Yadda is to Christianity". Care to discuss that? ;)

What ?

I'm an extremist then ?

It's amazing how myopic your vision is, Yadda

Quote:

Because i rebuke and criticise moslem lying and deception ?

Because you assume all Muslims are "criminals", Yadda. It is because you assume that all Muslims engage in "lying and deception".

If you can't recognise how extreme and bigoted those statements are, then there is no hope for you.

There is no hope for you.

1 Corinthians 3:18

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by muso on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 7:14pm

Matthew 7:3

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 8:19pm

muso wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 7:14pm:

Matthew 7:3

Yep, pretty much so for Yadda. ;)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 9:12pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 8:19pm:

muso wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 7:14pm:

Matthew 7:3

Yep, pretty much so for Yadda. ;)

Matthew 7:3 is not a 'get out of jail free' for all arseholes, or even all comers. It is an injunction for people of the SAME moral framework, the same community.
So it is not a call to accommodate Muslim jihad which falls outside all shared or decent moral frameworks at the time of Matthew 7:3 or since.

Matthew 7:3 is not a call to accommodate every murderous teaching of Islam.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 9:50pm

Soren wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 9:12pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 8:19pm:

muso wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 7:14pm:

Matthew 7:3

Yep, pretty much so for Yadda. ;)

Actually, Soren it is an admonishment against hubris. Something all bigots suffer from. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Yadda on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 11:15pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 9:50pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 9:12pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 8:19pm:

muso wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 7:14pm:

Matthew 7:3

Yep, pretty much so for Yadda. ;)

Actually, Soren it is an admonishment against hubris.

Something all bigots suffer from. ::)

Ah.

And all moslems then ?

+++

re.....
Matthew 7:3......'is an admonishment against hubris.'

Dictionary;
hubris = = excessive pride or self-confidence.

"Ye [moslems] are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors."
Koran 3.110

And it is ONLY the infidels, who are the are perverted the transgressors.

Honest !!! :P

So ISLAMIC doctrine declares, that;
A devout moslem, can NEVER, EVER, be a guilty wrongdoer in the eyes of Allah [so long as the moslem obeys Sharia!].

Now Brian,

You speak of hubris.

But the obvious hubris of moslems, goes completely over your head ?

And without any criticism ?

e.g.
What behaviour is permitted [halal], to moslems?

Within ISLAM, for a devout moslem all things are permissible, if they are permitted by Sharia.

Brian,

I ask you, what could instil pride in an individual more, than a philosophy which declares;

'You moslems, are the best of peoples evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong.
And oh, by the way, all conduct is lawful to you, so long as it is conduct permitted by Sharia law.
[which includes the enslavement, rape, and murder of your enemies]'

???

Hubris and bigotry are 'brothers', you say ?

e.g.
Allah's law IS VERY CLEAR.

"......If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him."
Koran 4.92-93

Whereas, a moslem is justified [by their deity], in murdering infidels, because, the infidels, are not moslems.

Brian,

And you do not see this bigotry, in a philosophy, which permits [which makes 'lawful'], such despicable conduct towards fellow human beings ?

Well, you are not alone, brian.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Yadda on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 11:29pm

Yadda wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 1:47pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 1:02pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 10:40am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 28^th, 2013 at 11:59am:

Yadda wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 11:15pm:

True Colours wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 10:44pm:

You really don't get the irony of what the image says, do you, Yadda?

You do know what "muslin" is, don't you?

Or are you as poorly educated as the person who scrawled it?

Muslims aren't offended by it, they like all educated people are mystified by it. ;D ;D

Brian_Ross,

So your argument is that because people make typos on their protest placards, it is questionable as to whether they are worthy to vote ???

Yes. One would prefer an educated electorate over an uneducated one, Yadda.

You're a perfect example, actually, who prefers faith over knowledge. ::)

Brian_Ross,

That is your opinion.

in response to your reply post #10

I am merely stating, that it is, your opinion.

And, i have no problem with you expressing, your opinion.

Yadda wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 1:47pm:

If i seek what is true, is the 'faith' that i hold absolutely certain ?

No.

in response to your reply post #10

I am confirming, that i am a human being, and that i am not omniscient.

Which amazes you. :-? :P

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 11:39pm

Yadda wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 11:15pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 9:50pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 9:12pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 8:19pm:

muso wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 7:14pm:

Matthew 7:3

Yep, pretty much so for Yadda. ;)

Actually, Soren it is an admonishment against hubris.

Something all bigots suffer from. ::)

Ah.

And all moslems then ?

You can demonstrate scientifically that all Muslims suffer from hubris, Yadda or is this merely another example of your bigotry? ::)

I look forward to you producing this proof, Yadda. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 11:55pm

Yadda wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 11:29pm:

in response to your reply post #10

I'm actually waiting for a reply to my post #11... ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Yadda on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:06am

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 5:43pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 2:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 1:02pm:

"or other criminals". So you believe all Muslims are criminals, Yadda?

As Christians have for the last 2,000 years?

Or aren't you willing to admit to that, Yadda?

brian,

It is true, that some men within the Christian church, took that authority to themselves.

But that authority [to murder people who do not believe as they believe] never came from Jesus the man, or from God the spirit.

Matthew 20:25
But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:

Matthew 23:3
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

John 16:2
They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.i

Quote:

[quote]
[quote]
And of course, you're not prejudiced, are you?

Bigot. ::)

Oh.

I'm a bigot ?
[/quote]

Yes. You proved it by declaring all Muslims "criminals", Yadda.

Tell me is this Muslim a "criminal"?

::) ::)

[/quote]

Already, he is being made subject to SATAN, and is bowing down towards Mecca, in worship to what ?

He is being taught to worship a black rock, an idol, situated in Mecca ?

does Islam equate sex and rape?
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1330935607/81#81

Quote:

What is in Mecca ?

What are moslems bowing down towards ????i

IMAGE....BLACK STONE, MECCA

+++

The Black Stone of the Kabaa in the Grand Mosque in Mecca, was an object of worship, in the paganism of the Arabian pagans, for 100's of years before Mohammed invented/fabricated ISLAM.

The origins of the Black Stone of the Kabaa is that it, the Black Stone, was a pagan object of worship.

The Black Stone, was a pagan object of worship - before Mohammed's time, it was a pagan object of worship in Mohammed's time, AND, it still is today.

The Black Stone of the Kabaa, is a pagan object of worship.

....."Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) faced the Black Stone, touched it, and then placed his lips on it and wept for a long time."

law/fiqhussunnah/fus5_76.html#5.74b

iChristian Army Mutilates Civilians
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1314097200/28#28

Quote:

In the image below, Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal is about to kiss the black stone at the Kabaa in the Grand Mosque in Mecca.
Khaled Mashaal thinks that his spiritual purity, may turn the stone white again.
[Why else would Khaled Mashaal kiss this black ROCK ???]

But pay attention;
Khaled Mashaal, is definitely NOT worshipping that black stone!
/sarc off

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Yadda on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:11am

Christian Army Mutilates Civilians
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1314097200/28#28

Quote:

ISLAMIC law texts record that;

....."Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) faced the Black Stone, touched it, and then placed his lips on it and wept for a long time."
.....Ibn 'Abbas that 'Umar bent down towards the Black Stone and said: "By Allah! I know that you are a mere stone, and if I had not seen my beloved Prophet (peace be upon him) kissing you and touching you I would have never done so." The Qur'an says: "You have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct)."'
....'Ever since I saw the Prophet (peace be upon him) doing this, I have never failed to do that.'
law/fiqhussunnah/fus5_76.html#5.74b

But Mohammed did NOT worship that black stone!
/sarc off

Open a dictionary.

Dictionary;
idol = =
1 an image or representation of a god used as an object of worship.
2 an object of adulation

Dictionary;
adulation = = excessive admiration.

PLEASE NOTE, ALL MOSLEMS; KISSING, AND THE ADORATION OF, A BLACK STONE - SITUATED IN MECCA - IS NOT IDOL WORSHIP!!! :P

Honest!

But you can NOT trust me, ....i'm and infidel!

So ask your imam.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:25am

Yadda wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:06am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 5:43pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 2:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 1:02pm:

"or other criminals". So you believe all Muslims are criminals, Yadda?

As Christians have for the last 2,000 years?

Or aren't you willing to admit to that, Yadda?

Really? Forgotten Deuteronomy 17:12, Yadda?

What about Exodus 22:17? Leviticus 20:13? Leviticus 20:27? Leviticus 20:10? Leviticus 21:9? Exodus 22:19? 2 Chronicles 15:12-13? Deuteronomy 13:13-19? Deuteronomy 13:7-12?

Christians believe the Bible is divinely inspired. Therefore, the admonishment in those verses to kill, must have come from God, according to Christian belief, Yadda. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:31am

Yadda wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:06am:

Quote:

[quote]
[quote]
And of course, you're not prejudiced, are you?

Bigot. ::)

Oh.

I'm a bigot ?

Yes. You proved it by declaring all Muslims "criminals", Yadda.

Tell me is this Muslim a "criminal"?

::) ::)

[/quote]

Already, he is being made subject to SATAN, and is bowing down towards Mecca, in worship to what ?

He is being taught to worship a black rock, an idol, situated in Mecca ?
[/quote]

I wasn't aware that it was illegal to worship Satan or any idol, Yadda.

Can you point me to the Legislation which criminalises those activities? ::)

No, you're not prejudiced or a Christian zealot, are you? ::) ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Yadda on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:35am

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 11:39pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 11:15pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 9:50pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 9:12pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 8:19pm:

muso wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 7:14pm:

Matthew 7:3

Yep, pretty much so for Yadda. ;)

Actually, Soren it is an admonishment against hubris.

Something all bigots suffer from. ::)

Ah.

And all moslems then ?

You can demonstrate scientifically that all Muslims suffer from hubris, Yadda or is this merely another example of your bigotry? ::)

I look forward to you producing this proof, Yadda. ::)

SIMPLE!

Ask any devout moslem;

Q. #1,
"Who are are the rightly guided people?"

AND;

Q. #2,
"Are there any rightly guided people among those who are not moslems?"

If the moslem is being candid;

If you ask those questions 1,001 times, the reply 1,001 times will be for Q. #1, "Moslems"

And the reply 1,001 times will be for Q. #2, "No. Only moslems are the rightly guided people!"

+++

brian,

What about Christian hubris, you ask ?

God our father, only requires flawed sinners to turn and seek him.

God even welcomes the flawed, repentant, ex-moslem.

1 Corinthians 1:26
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
......
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

Jesus said;
Luke 5:32
I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by UnderTheMilkyWay on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:38am

Yadda wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 9:35am:

All i can do is to appeal to the reason, of what i hope are a reasoning and a reasonable people [i.e. non-moslems].

I'm non Muslim and i consider myself reasonable. I've only been a member here for a few hours so forgive me if i've missed this already but is there a collection of Islamic scholars on this forum I don't know about?

After you show me your PhD in Islamic law, you'll have some credibility - you do not speak for Muslims.

Copying and pasting "quotes" from the Qur'an, without context and linking to hate sites, really doesn't encourage anyone to engage in any reasonable or civil debate.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:50am

Yadda wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:35am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 11:39pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 11:15pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 9:50pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 9:12pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 8:19pm:

muso wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 7:14pm:

Matthew 7:3

Yep, pretty much so for Yadda. ;)

Actually, Soren it is an admonishment against hubris.

Something all bigots suffer from. ::)

Ah.

And all moslems then ?

You can demonstrate scientifically that all Muslims suffer from hubris, Yadda or is this merely another example of your bigotry? ::)

I look forward to you producing this proof, Yadda. ::)

So, you admit that you don't have the proof, Yadda? You have done no actual questioning but you are presuming what you believe to be true.

That is prejudice, Yadda. You do realise that? ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Yadda on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:59am

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:25am:

Yadda wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:06am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 5:43pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 2:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 1:02pm:

"or other criminals". So you believe all Muslims are criminals, Yadda?

As Christians have for the last 2,000 years?

Or aren't you willing to admit to that, Yadda?

Really?

Forgotten Deuteronomy 17:12, Yadda?

What about Exodus 22:17? Leviticus 20:13? Leviticus 20:27? Leviticus 20:10? Leviticus 21:9? Exodus 22:19? 2 Chronicles 15:12-13? Deuteronomy 13:13-19? Deuteronomy 13:7-12?

Christians believe the Bible is divinely inspired. Therefore, the admonishment in those verses to kill, must have come from God, according to Christian belief, Yadda. ::)

brian,

A common error [on your part], again, due to ignorant assumption on your part.

I have previously, completely covered why those OT laws only apply against covenant breakers, and i have also covered the [again ignorantly assumed] sanction in the OT law, to kill unbelievers, here.....

more muslim daily madness
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1238715411/458#458

KFC employee loses it when customer asks for bacon
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1294224584/11#11

please read them. ;)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Yadda on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 1:25am

UnderTheMilkyWay wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:38am:

Yadda wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 9:35am:

All i can do is to appeal to the reason, of what i hope are a reasoning and a reasonable people [i.e. non-moslems].

Yes UnderTheMilkyWay,

I have absolutely no credibility among ppl such as yourself.

Is that because your 'sympathies' lie with the ISLAMISTS ?

You accuse me of.....
"Copying and pasting "quotes" from the Qur'an, without context"

UnderTheMilkyWay,

Please give me one of my own Koran quotes, and i will demonstrate to you, and to everyone else [by posting the surrounding verses], that the Koran [usually] DOES NOT PROVIDE ANY CONTEXT RELATING TO ITS VERSES.

But in any case.......iUnderTheMilkyWay,

All i can say, is that your ignorance about the perfection of Allah Koran is apparent to all!

UnderTheMilkyWay,

I do not require a PhD in Islamic law.

And if you knew anything about the Koran, at all, you would know that.

EXPLANATION;
Allah declares , IN THE KORAN ITSELF, that the words in the Koran are clear [perspicuous!!], and therefore those words in the Koran verses, clear-ly mean, what a rational person understands the Koran texts mean.

as per....

012.001
YUSUFALI: A.L.R. These are the symbols (or Verses) of the perspicuous Book.
PICKTHAL: Alif. Lam. Ra. These are verse of the Scripture that maketh plain.
SHAKIR: Alif Lam Ra. These are the verses of the Book that makes (things) manifest.

Dictionary;
perspicuous = =
1 (of an account or representation) clearly expressed and easily understood; lucid.
2 (of a person) expressing things clearly.

026.002
YUSUFALI: These are verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.
PICKTHAL: These are revelations of the Scripture that maketh plain.
SHAKIR: These are the verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.

See!!!!!

Allah, made the Koran clear for everyone, so that even i could understand what its words mean!

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Yadda on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 1:38am

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:50am:

Yadda wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:35am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 11:39pm:

You can demonstrate scientifically that all Muslims suffer from hubris, Yadda or is this merely another example of your bigotry? ::)

I look forward to you producing this proof, Yadda. ::)

So, you admit that you don't have the proof, Yadda? You have done no actual questioning but you are presuming what you believe to be true.

That is prejudice, Yadda. You do realise that? ::)

Brian,

I do not accept your proposition that i am 'prejudiced',
1/ in asking a moslem to describe the perfection which moslems achieve, through their devotion to ISLAM,
2/ and in my expecting a moslem to modestly attest to his perfection.

"Ye [moslems] are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors."
Koran 3.110

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 10:04am

Yadda wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:59am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:25am:

Yadda wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:06am:

It is true, that some men within the Christian church, took that authority to themselves.

But that authority [to murder people who do not believe as they believe] never came from Jesus the man, or from God the spirit.

Really?

Forgotten Deuteronomy 17:12, Yadda?

What about Exodus 22:17? Leviticus 20:13? Leviticus 20:27? Leviticus 20:10? Leviticus 21:9? Exodus 22:19? 2 Chronicles 15:12-13? Deuteronomy 13:13-19? Deuteronomy 13:7-12?

Christians believe the Bible is divinely inspired. Therefore, the admonishment in those verses to kill, must have come from God, according to Christian belief, Yadda. ::)

brian,

A common error [on your part], again, due to ignorant assumption on your part.

Really? What you claim goes against an awful lot of Christian belief and teaching, Yadda. I must assume that you're either lying, distorting the inconvenient truth or just plain ignorant. Which is it? ::)

Over 2,000 years of Christian belief, flushed down the toilet by our friend Yadda. Tsk, tsk, you appear only too willing to trash your own religion, that is if you're really a Christian? Doubts persist.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 10:08am

Yadda wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 1:38am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:50am:

So, you admit that you don't have the proof, Yadda? You have done no actual questioning but you are presuming what you believe to be true.

That is prejudice, Yadda. You do realise that? ::)

Brian,

I do not accept your proposition that i am 'prejudiced',

No surprise there, then. ::)

Quote:

1/ in asking a moslem to describe the perfection which moslems achieve, through their devotion to ISLAM,
2/ and in my expecting a moslem to modestly attest to his perfection.

You haven't actually done that on any statistically valid sample, have you, Yadda, by your own admission. Therefore, you have no proof, as I ask you for. Therefore your claims are based on prejudice, not proof.

I know fundamentalist Christians reject science but out here in the real world, the rest of us don't.

Until you produce proof to back your claim that all Muslims suffer from Hubris, I think we'll just file this in the round filing cabinet on our desktops, Yadda, along with most of the rest of your claims about Muslims and Islam.

Still waiting BTW on your proof that it is illegal to worship Satan or an Idol in Mecca. Afterall, that was the basis of your claim that "all Muslims are criminals". ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Sprintcyclist on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 10:49am

Quote:

.......The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems.....

futility, I'ld put it more at ..........'self-harm, self-loating".

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Yadda on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:27pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 10:08am:

Still waiting BTW on your proof that it is illegal to worship Satan or an Idol in Mecca.

Afterall, that was the basis of your claim that "all Muslims are criminals". ::)

brian,

No it is not.

The above supposition, is one which was 'created' in your own mind, brian.

[Re-read your own post #24, brian.]

In post #21,
I was commenting on the situation of the child within the image, that you presented.

I was commenting on the fact that it was apparent [in the image] that moslems were bringing their children into subjection to SATAN and teaching their children to bow down and to worship/venerate a black rock in Mecca.

In post #21, i did not suggest OR MENTION ANY criminality [by our laws], for moslems choosing to bow down and to worship/venerate a black rock in Mecca.

I did not suggest that, in my post #21

The specific argument i made, that "all Muslims are criminals", i made in post #4 and again in post #8 [the main argument was made within quote blocks].

But you chose not to refer to those arguments, nor, did you try to refute them.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Yadda on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:52pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 10:04am:

Really? What you claim goes against an awful lot of Christian belief and teaching, Yadda.

I must assume that you're either lying, distorting the inconvenient truth or just plain ignorant. Which is it? ::)

Over 2,000 years of Christian belief, flushed down the toilet by our friend Yadda. Tsk, tsk, you appear only too willing to trash your own religion, that is if you're really a Christian? Doubts persist.

brian,

I am not responsible for what you, or anyone else, chooses to believe.

We are instructed to search out the truth for ourselves.

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

brian,

Why do professing Christians open and read their bible, so rarely 'today' ?

IMO, many of professing Christians have been strangled by their cares the world.

Matthew 13:3
And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
....
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

If some chose to believe that the OT laws gave an authority from God [to those charged by God], to murder persons who were not in covenant with God, then they were mistaken.

And if we were to act upon that mistaken belief, then the responsibility for the murders we commit, we must answer for.

".....I must assume that you're either lying, distorting the inconvenient truth or just plain ignorant. Which is it?"

God's OT law is quite clear.....

.....for anyone with eyes to see, brian

Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Exodus 22:21
Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him...

Exodus 23:9
Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger...

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself...

n.b.
.....and thou shalt love him as thyself

Leviticus 25:47-49
[these verses clearly speak of [and reveal that it was entirely 'lawful'] for Hebrews [themselves] to become bond servants [slaves], to prosperous strangers living among the Hebrews.]

Deuteronomy 1:16
And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

Deuteronomy 10:17-19
For the LORD your God... loveth the stranger, ...Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 24:17
Thou shalt not pervert the judgment of the stranger, nor of the fatherless; nor take a widow's raiment to pledge:
18 But thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee thence: therefore I command thee to do this thing.

Deuteronomy 27:19
Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger...

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 1:26pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 10:08am:

Still waiting BTW on your proof that it is illegal to worship Satan or an Idol in Mecca.

Are you trying to suggest that it is legal and OK?

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by gandalf on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 6:43pm

lol trust me Brian, its illegal.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 1^st, 2013 at 11:49am

Yadda wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 12:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 10:08am:

Still waiting BTW on your proof that it is illegal to worship Satan or an Idol in Mecca.

Afterall, that was the basis of your claim that "all Muslims are criminals".

brian,

No it is not.

The above supposition, is one which was 'created' in your own mind, brian.

[Re-read your own post #24, brian.]
In post #21,
I was commenting on the situation of the child within the image, that you presented.

I was commenting on the fact that it was apparent [in the image] that moslems were bringing their children into subjection to SATAN and teaching their children to bow down and to worship/venerate a black rock in Mecca.

You made that comment in direct reply to my question whether that child was a criminal, Yadda. I took it, quite sensibly to be the answer to that question. Now you're backpeddling and saying that wasn't what you mean, now that you have been unable to prove that it is illegal to either worship Satan or an Idol in Mecca.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. So, you were merely posting another prejudiced opinion about Muslims and Islam which was directly insulting to them and their religion?

How typical of you, Yadda. And if someone was to suggest that it is you who worship Satan, promoting his views and his love of mischief and strife? How wold you take it, I wonder?

Of course, I don't believe that 'cause I don't believe in Satan's existence. I think you're just a bigot. And you keep proving it with every post. If I was you, Yadda, I'd take your extreme Christian fundamentalism somewhere it's appreciated like Stormfront. ;D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Oct 4^th, 2013 at 11:15am

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1^st, 2013 at 11:49am:

now that you have been unable to prove that it is illegal to either worship Satan or an Idol in Mecca.

Non-Muslims are banned from Mecca. They are prohibited from entering Mecca. Koran 9:28.

Geddit?

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 4^th, 2013 at 4:01pm

Soren wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 1:26pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 30^th, 2013 at 10:08am:

Still waiting BTW on your proof that it is illegal to worship Satan or an Idol in Mecca.

Are you trying to suggest that it is legal and OK?

I am indifferent to it being OK or not, Soren. That is an individual choice. I am concerned about the issue of "criminality". Yadda made a claim that all Muslims are criminal and based his claim upon the worshiping of Satan and/or idols.

I have asked him repeatedly for proof of the legislation which has made either or both actions illegal. He has continued to squirm away from his original statement as he always does. Rather like you do, as well, Soren. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 4^th, 2013 at 4:03pm

Soren wrote on Oct 4^th, 2013 at 11:15am:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1^st, 2013 at 11:49am:

now that you have been unable to prove that it is illegal to either worship Satan or an Idol in Mecca.

Non-Muslims are banned from Mecca. They are prohibited from entering Mecca. Koran 9:28.

Geddit?

Nope. You'll have toe explain your reasoning, Soren. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 12:53pm

Muslims don't want accommodation... they want submission.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 1:35pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4^th, 2013 at 4:03pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 4^th, 2013 at 11:15am:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1^st, 2013 at 11:49am:

now that you have been unable to prove that it is illegal to either worship Satan or an Idol in Mecca.

Non-Muslims are banned from Mecca. They are prohibited from entering Mecca. Koran 9:28.

Geddit?

Nope. You'll have toe explain your reasoning, Soren. ::)

I just did, with text reference and picture. That you are too thick or too spineless to do anything but pretend to be too thick is something for you to deal with.

I have given you the info and the Koranic basis of it. I am not here to accommodate your shifty, cowardly spinelessness.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 4:23pm

Soren wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 1:35pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4^th, 2013 at 4:03pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 4^th, 2013 at 11:15am:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1^st, 2013 at 11:49am:

now that you have been unable to prove that it is illegal to either worship Satan or an Idol in Mecca.

Non-Muslims are banned from Mecca. They are prohibited from entering Mecca. Koran 9:28.

Geddit?

Nope. You'll have toe explain your reasoning, Soren. ::)

So, somehow, a road sign in Saudi Arabia explains how it is illegal in Australia to worship Satan or idols?

Soren, you have surpassed yourself! Your Islamophobia appears to know no bounds. ::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 6:01pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 4:23pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 1:35pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4^th, 2013 at 4:03pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 4^th, 2013 at 11:15am:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1^st, 2013 at 11:49am:

now that you have been unable to prove that it is illegal to either worship Satan or an Idol in Mecca.

Non-Muslims are banned from Mecca. They are prohibited from entering Mecca. Koran 9:28.

Geddit?

Nope. You'll have toe explain your reasoning, Soren. ::)

You said Mecca, numpty.
Non Muslims, and that includes Satan worshippers, are not allowed into the place: Koran 9:28.

Don't pretend to be SO thick, on top of being spineless.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 9:37pm

Soren wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 6:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 4:23pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 1:35pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4^th, 2013 at 4:03pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 4^th, 2013 at 11:15am:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1^st, 2013 at 11:49am:

now that you have been unable to prove that it is illegal to either worship Satan or an Idol in Mecca.

Non-Muslims are banned from Mecca. They are prohibited from entering Mecca. Koran 9:28.

Geddit?

Nope. You'll have toe explain your reasoning, Soren. ::)

You said Mecca, numpty.

Did I, Soren? Then you should have absolutely no problem providing a quote and a link to where I said it. I look forward to you doing so. Failure though, will of course indicate that you are lying, Soren. ::)

Quote:

Non Muslims, and that includes Satan worshippers, are not allowed into the place: Koran 9:28.

Don't pretend to be SO thick, on top of being spineless.

Yes, but that was not I was talking about, which is why I asked you for an explanation, Soren. I was obviously discussing Yadda's claim that all Muslims are criminal because they worship Satan and idols. You introduced Mecca, no one else did at which point I asked for some form of explanation.

Soren, it is obvious your Islamophobia controls your thinking on this issue... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Oct 6^th, 2013 at 12:12am

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 9:37pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 6:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 4:23pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 1:35pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4^th, 2013 at 4:03pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 4^th, 2013 at 11:15am:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1^st, 2013 at 11:49am:

now that you have been unable to prove that it is illegal to either worship Satan or an Idol in Mecca.

Non-Muslims are banned from Mecca. They are prohibited from entering Mecca. Koran 9:28.

Geddit?

Nope. You'll have toe explain your reasoning, Soren. ::)

You said Mecca, numpty.

Not so. I even highlighted your quote.
Here it is again. You were talking to Yadda:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1^st, 2013 at 11:49am:

now that you have been unable to prove that it is illegal to either worship Satan or an Idol in Mecca.

You were gloating that Yadda was unable to prove that it is illegal to satan or idol worship in Mecca.

Gandy even told you it was totally off-limit.
But you insist - because the aleternative would be to admit that you said a silly thing. But it looks like you'd rather die in a ditch than concede your own silliness.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Karnal on Oct 6^th, 2013 at 1:48am

Ah, my friends, it is a silly world, isn’t it. It is a very potty place, you see.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 7^th, 2013 at 11:32pm

Soren wrote on Oct 6^th, 2013 at 12:12am:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 9:37pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 6:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 4:23pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 1:35pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4^th, 2013 at 4:03pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 4^th, 2013 at 11:15am:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1^st, 2013 at 11:49am:

now that you have been unable to prove that it is illegal to either worship Satan or an Idol in Mecca.

Non-Muslims are banned from Mecca. They are prohibited from entering Mecca. Koran 9:28.

Geddit?

Nope. You'll have toe explain your reasoning, Soren. ::)

You said Mecca, numpty.

Not so. I even highlighted your quote.
Here it is again. You were talking to Yadda:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1^st, 2013 at 11:49am:

now that you have been unable to prove that it is illegal to either worship Satan or an Idol in Mecca.

Oh, dear, Soren, you are getting desperate. It is obvious from the context that the way that sentence should be read is "now that you have been unable to prove that it is illegal to either worship Satan or idol worship in Mecca." You really need to learn how to read English. The "either...or" indicates an alternative, not a continuation. ::)

Keep trying, it's amusing watching your attempts to attack me. ;D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 11^th, 2013 at 7:06pm

Sorry bwian but Muslims don't want accommodation... they want submission.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 11^th, 2013 at 8:58pm

Grendel wrote on Oct 11^th, 2013 at 7:06pm:

Sorry bwian but Muslims don't want accommodation... they want submission.

You claim to speak authoritatively but on what basis do you make such a claim? Have you asked every Muslim their opinion? Or are you merely relying on your own prejudices reinforced by those of other Islamophobes'? ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 11^th, 2013 at 10:19pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 11^th, 2013 at 8:58pm:

Grendel wrote on Oct 11^th, 2013 at 7:06pm:

Sorry bwian but Muslims don't want accommodation... they want submission.

Weally?
Care to provide the quote?
Have you asked every Christian bwian?
You do make stupid statements in your efforts to dissemble.
Are you being a hypocrite again?

Perhaps you should start asking questions... they can explain what the word Islam means/stands for.
Perhaps you could ask them about apostasy.
Many Muslims I know who consider themselves moderate, all agree that the ultimate goal of Islam is; human development, welfare and prosperity in peace and security. In accordance to the Koran and the teachings of Allah... Al-Islam... absolute submission to them. (By everyone bwian... everyone... one big happy Islamic world)
I can tell you bwian... and you can ask the Muslims here.
But since you aren't a Muslim, they don't have to tell you the truth.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by gandalf on Oct 11^th, 2013 at 11:00pm

is calling Brian "Bwian" meant to be some clever insult?

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 11^th, 2013 at 11:45pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 11^th, 2013 at 11:00pm:

is calling Brian "Bwian" meant to be some clever insult?

It is merely a childish effort to try and insult me. Heard it and much worse all before. Resorting to such childish ad hominem merely shows they've lost the debate. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by WorldSacred on Oct 12^th, 2013 at 2:15am

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 28^th, 2013 at 11:59am:

Yadda wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 11:15pm:

True Colours wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 10:44pm:

Why do you continue to defend people who display offensive messages, actually committing an unlawful act? Regardless of whether this could be a photoshopped attempt at defamation, or whether the message is actually real and genuine. You shouldn't jump in to defend this fool (whoever he might be, or whatever he meant), just because "not ALL muslims think this way" is your first defense of the situation.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by WorldSacred on Oct 12^th, 2013 at 2:23am

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 11^th, 2013 at 11:45pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 11^th, 2013 at 11:00pm:

is calling Brian "Bwian" meant to be some clever insult?

It is merely a childish effort to try and insult me. Heard it and much worse all before. Resorting to such childish ad hominem merely shows they've lost the debate. ::)

I always considered it some kind of homage to the character in the "Life of Brian", where Brian is the well-meaning character who gets misunderstood with his intentions, and eventually has to pay the price for it. I think that one of the Monty Python clan who played the Roman consul, would pronounce Brian's name as "Bwian". Hilarious reference after the fact that the consul "wequested" that the executioners "welease Wodger" for the sake of displaying compassion towards the people.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 12^th, 2013 at 11:47am

Grendel wrote on Oct 11^th, 2013 at 10:19pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 11^th, 2013 at 8:58pm:

Grendel wrote on Oct 11^th, 2013 at 7:06pm:

Sorry bwian but Muslims don't want accommodation... they want submission.

Still waiting bwian... or have you wunaway wunaway fwom this one again?

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Oct 12^th, 2013 at 11:48am

Obviously your bait isn't working! :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 12^th, 2013 at 5:54pm

|dev|null wrote on Oct 12^th, 2013 at 11:48am:

Obviously your bait isn't working! :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Obviously bwian and you are avoiding the obvious.
That's your modus operandi...
But I'm a pretty patient person.

My bait is debate... something you both are trying desperately to avoid it seems.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 12^th, 2013 at 8:59pm

Grendel wrote on Oct 12^th, 2013 at 5:54pm:

|dev|null wrote on Oct 12^th, 2013 at 11:48am:

Obviously your bait isn't working! :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Obviously bwian and you are avoiding the obvious.
That's your modus operandi...
But I'm a pretty patient person.

My bait is debate... something you both are trying desperately to avoid it seems.

Sorry, I thought you were merely interested in insulting me. I hadn't noticed much in the way of actual debate from you, Beowulf. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 12^th, 2013 at 9:56pm

now now bwian no need to obfuscate.
I'm still waiting for you to reply with something on topic and sensible

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 12^th, 2013 at 9:57pm

in case you've forgotten...

Weally?
Care to provide the quote?
Have you asked every Christian bwian?
You do make stupid statements in your efforts to dissemble.
Are you being a hypocrite again?

Perhaps you should start asking questions... they can explain what the word Islam means/stands for.
Perhaps you could ask them about apostasy.
Many Muslims I know who consider themselves moderate, all agree that the ultimate goal of Islam is; human development, welfare and prosperity in peace and security. In accordance to the Koran and the teachings of Allah... Al-Islam... absolute submission to them. (By everyone bwian... everyone... one big happy Islamic world)
I can tell you bwian... and you can ask the Muslims here.
But since you aren't a Muslim, they don't have to tell you the truth.

So how have you done?
Spoken to anyone?
got a clue yourself?
Gonna keep to the stalling tactics bwian?

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 13^th, 2013 at 6:41pm

Now, now Beowulf no need to obfuscate.

I'm still waiting for you to reply with something on topic and sensible.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 13^th, 2013 at 8:58pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 13^th, 2013 at 6:41pm:

Now, now Beowulf no need to obfuscate.

I'm still waiting for you to reply with something on topic and sensible.

dont waste my time bwian... try to answer some questions and engage meaningfully for once in your life.
i don't need to post them again twice should be enough for anyone.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 14^th, 2013 at 12:17am

Now, now Beowulf no need to obfuscate.

I'm still waiting for you to reply with something on topic and sensible. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 14^th, 2013 at 11:54am

Grendel wrote on Oct 12^th, 2013 at 9:57pm:

Easy to see this is going to get weally boring. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Oct 14^th, 2013 at 12:49pm

You know, I find I can often get a better response by being polite, Grendel. Oh, and using better, clearer formatting. Of course, we both know you're not really interested in a response. You're just trying to antagonise Brian, aren't you? :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 14^th, 2013 at 12:58pm

Weally I'd have though bwian is twying to antagonise everyone else.
he'll get respect when he deserves it.
BTW who the hell do you people think you are Internet royalty ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 14^th, 2013 at 6:06pm

Grendel wrote on Oct 14^th, 2013 at 11:54am:

Easy to see this is going to get weally boring. ::)

Now, now Beowulf no need to obfuscate.

I'm still waiting for you to reply with something on topic and sensible. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 14^th, 2013 at 9:44pm

Grendel wrote on Oct 14^th, 2013 at 11:54am:

Grendel wrote on Oct 12^th, 2013 at 9:57pm:

Easy to see this is going to get weally boring. ::)

Wassup bwian... too retarded to do more, too frightened to engage.
Of course you are.

You gotta stop hiding behind Jnr. ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 14^th, 2013 at 10:51pm

Now, now Beowulf no need to obfuscate.

I'm still waiting for you to reply with something on topic and sensible. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 15^th, 2013 at 10:17am

Honestly bwian you couldn't even come up with an original post you had to steal mine ;D ;D ;D

So get Jnr to answer for you if you're too gutless.
Stop wasting everyone's time.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Oct 15^th, 2013 at 10:39am

What's wrong? Don't like your tactics being employed against you? :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 15^th, 2013 at 5:40pm

|dev|null wrote on Oct 15^th, 2013 at 10:39am:

What's wrong? Don't like your tactics being employed against you? :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

They're not my tactics Jnr I come to forums to engage.
As is very obvious. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 15^th, 2013 at 9:14pm

Grendel wrote on Oct 15^th, 2013 at 5:40pm:

|dev|null wrote on Oct 15^th, 2013 at 10:39am:

What's wrong? Don't like your tactics being employed against you? :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

They're not my tactics Jnr I come to forums to engage.
As is very obvious. ::)

Sorry, I thought you were merely interested in insulting me. I hadn't noticed much in the way of actual debate from you, Beowulf. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 10:52am

Grendel wrote on Oct 15^th, 2013 at 5:40pm:

|dev|null wrote on Oct 15^th, 2013 at 10:39am:

What's wrong? Don't like your tactics being employed against you? :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

They're not my tactics Jnr I come to forums to engage.
As is very obvious. ::)

Sure could have fooled me. It looks like you come to troll and aren't very successful at it, unlike my Sensei! His baits are sweet and fresh and often funny. He catches many fish in his trolls. Your baits are stale, foolish and come from the way of hate, which DL excels in! :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 5:05pm

Jnr... give it a rest you are not even comedic value.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 5:06pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 15^th, 2013 at 9:14pm:

Grendel wrote on Oct 15^th, 2013 at 5:40pm:

|dev|null wrote on Oct 15^th, 2013 at 10:39am:

What's wrong? Don't like your tactics being employed against you? :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

They're not my tactics Jnr I come to forums to engage.
As is very obvious. ::)

Sorry, I thought you were merely interested in insulting me. I hadn't noticed much in the way of actual debate from you, Beowulf. ::)

But like most people say... you're an idiot bwian... and I'm not going to keep repeating my posts for an idiot.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 10:42pm

Sorry, I thought you were merely interested in insulting me. I hadn't noticed much in the way of actual debate from you, Beowulf. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 17^th, 2013 at 8:41am

Keep trolling and not engaging bwian... people love that about you :D

So far you've managed to avoid every on topic comment I've made here... ad hom and stupidity is a blessing for you it seems, oh of course you can always tag team with Jnr. ;D ;D ;D

So bwian when will you actually address the topic or are you going to bore everyone with this stupid tactic of yours.

if you've forgotten the points I've made I suggest you go back and find them.
hint the main one has to do with submission... a subject related to Islam you keep avoiding either through ignorance or dishonesty.

Why don't you join the Ummah bwian? Or have you?

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by GeorgeH on Oct 17^th, 2013 at 10:55am

Grendel wrote on Oct 15^th, 2013 at 5:40pm:

|dev|null wrote on Oct 15^th, 2013 at 10:39am:

What's wrong? Don't like your tactics being employed against you? :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

They're not my tactics Jnr I come to forums to engage.
As is very obvious. ::)

Wow, to engage, like in engage in debate? You think that is what you are doing? So when I post an extract of a blog containing relevant parts of the Telstra wiring handbook and all you can do is disparage the author of the blog that is you seeking to engage in debate? Funny—I thought that was you running at the speed of light away from engaging in debate.

You are a boring rightwing troll is all.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 17^th, 2013 at 11:21am

Typical of Bwian’s posts…

Instead of stating what Muslin is bwian carries on ridiculing Yadda then states…

Quote:

Muslims aren't offended by it, they like all educated people are mystified by it.

As if all Muslims are educated people , cleary if that was so, then a great many are very poorly educated and in some cases that is almost national.

Personally I’d think most “educated”people would be bemused by it. I was.

I note as usual bwian ignores the more pertinent image, through his selective vision.

And once again ignores the pertinent questions.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 17^th, 2013 at 8:34pm

Grendel wrote on Oct 17^th, 2013 at 11:21am:

Typical of Bwian’s posts…

Instead of stating what Muslin is bwian carries on ridiculing Yadda

Why do I have to state what Muslin is, Beowulf? The writer of the image obviously doesn't, nor does Yadda. They seem rather ignorant. Should I encourage their ignorance or help them to alievate it? Better they work it out, rather than being given this enormously valuable piece of information on a platter. All I've been doing is providing a little prodding. ;D ;D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 17^th, 2013 at 8:35pm

St George of the Garden wrote on Oct 17^th, 2013 at 10:55am:

Grendel wrote on Oct 15^th, 2013 at 5:40pm:

|dev|null wrote on Oct 15^th, 2013 at 10:39am:

What's wrong? Don't like your tactics being employed against you? :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

They're not my tactics Jnr I come to forums to engage.
As is very obvious. ::)

Yes, Beowulf's tactics are both rather boring and of course pointless. He doesn't want to engage in real debate. He merely wants to pontificate. When he doesn't get the answers he demands, he'll chase you all over the shop. Pointless really. ::) ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 18^th, 2013 at 10:16am

Face it bwian... you're a disgusting piece of work.
Keep running away and avoiding the questions ;D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Datalife on Oct 18^th, 2013 at 10:32am

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 11^th, 2013 at 8:58pm:

but on what basis do you make such a claim? Have you asked every Muslim their opinion?

Says the clown dismissing a point, then goes on to say later…

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 28^th, 2013 at 11:59am:

Muslims aren't offended by it, they like all educated people are mystified by it. ;D ;D

On what basis do you make such a claim? Have you asked every Muslim if they are mystified by it…and all educated people? And for further fun with idiots, play the lefty game of "define educated". Just for giggles.

What a double speaking clown you are.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 18^th, 2013 at 10:43pm

Grendel wrote on Oct 18^th, 2013 at 10:16am:

Face it bwian... you're a disgusting piece of work.
Keep running away and avoiding the questions ;D

Questions? There were questions amongst all those insults? Sorry, I thought you were merely interested in insulting me. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 19^th, 2013 at 9:39am

Yes bwian there were questions and statements that contradicted your claims right from the get go... yet ad hom and ignorance is all you've managed to reply with so far, as you wunaway from engagement in the topic.

As Jnr would say :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 12:59am

Ad Hom? I believe DL might take you to task for misusing the term, Beowulf! ;D ;D

Now, if you wish to actually engage in debate, perhaps you should do so, instead of merely resorting to insult at every turn. I've always said I'm willing to debate you, Beowulf but I refuse to do so as long as you're merely engage in insult and ad hominem debate. ::)

Can you rise to the challenge? I suspect not.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 10:57am

I'm still waiting for you to address my earlier questions and posts bwian... yet you keep failing to do so ::) ::) ::)

No use lying bwian... get on with it or permanently disappear.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 10:58am

:D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 10:58am

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 12:43pm

if you wish to actually engage in debate, perhaps you should do so, instead of merely resorting to insult at every turn. I've always said I'm willing to debate you, Beowulf but I refuse to do so as long as you're merely engage in insult and ad hominem debate. ::)

Repost your questions in a civilised, polite manner and I may answer them. Can you rise to the challenge? I suspect not.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Lucas The Innkeeper on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 12:45pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 12:43pm:

There's that "ad hominem" again it gets rolled out every time don't it.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 3:25pm

Lucas The Innkeeper wrote on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 12:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 12:43pm:

There's that "ad hominem" again it gets rolled out every time don't it.

You got a problem with the term? ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 7:48pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 12:43pm:

Sorry bwian you are no one special, so bwian it shall wemain...
You've insulted me in worse ways bwian so lets not try the holier than though crap ok.

If you were prepared to engage you would have done so..

You're a chicken... you just wunaway...

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 8:04pm

I see, still nothing useful to contribute, just endless accusations and lies. if you wish to actually engage in debate, perhaps you should do so, instead of merely resorting to insult at every turn. I really wonder why you bother, Beowulf. How many forums have you been banned from now? ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 9:06pm

Oh I already answered that slur elsewhere bwian.

Grendel wrote on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 10:57am:

I'm still waiting for you to address my earlier questions and posts bwian... yet you keep failing to do so ::) ::) ::)

No use lying bwian... get on with it or permanently disappear.

Still chicken bwian... gonna try to get me banned here are you?

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 9:07pm

Come on bwian get on board and stop the pathetic obfuscation and answer the questions and address the posts.

I'm sick of answering your off topic ad hom and crap.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 9:59pm

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Oct 21^st, 2013 at 7:32am

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 17^th, 2013 at 8:34pm:

Grendel wrote on Oct 17^th, 2013 at 11:21am:

Typical of Bwian’s posts…

Instead of stating what Muslin is bwian carries on ridiculing Yadda

I have never seen you make an actual argument or state your case in a coherent manner.

I have seen endless statements like the above - "oh, well, I won't tell you if you don't know, you are ignorant if you can't read my mind" - and a limitless use of 'bigot' any time anyone pulls you up for saying nothing other than 'mustn't judge Islam by what Muslims do and anyone who does is an ignorant bigot.'

You are a Muslim who is afraid to come out of the closet.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 22^nd, 2013 at 11:24pm

Soren wrote on Oct 21^st, 2013 at 7:32am:

I have never seen you make an actual argument or state your case in a coherent manner.

I cannot be held responsible for your inability comprehend simple points, Soren. ::)

Quote:

I have seen endless statements like the above - "oh, well, I won't tell you if you don't know, you are ignorant if you can't read my mind" - and a limitless use of 'bigot' any time anyone pulls you up for saying nothing other than 'mustn't judge Islam by what Muslims do and anyone who does is an ignorant bigot.'

Endless arguments? Really? Perhaps could then quote a few? ::)

Quote:

You are a Muslim who is afraid to come out of the closet.

Nope. Obviously you're a great believer in the simplistic "unless you're 100% with me, you're 100% agin me", view of the world, Soren. It's a childish and simplistic argument. I'm not a Muslim. Nor will I ever be a Muslim. However, I'll defend the right of those who choose to be Muslims to be Muslims and to be free of the outright religious persecution you and your ilk enjoy engaging in. And that is exactly what it is, religious persecution. The sort of thing that bigots employ. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Lionel Edriess on Oct 23^rd, 2013 at 12:10am

Things quiet over there, Brian?

To obtain maximum benefit from the shock value of your opinions, and to exploit the novelty of your debating style, would it not be better to formally announce your presence on this forum so that we uninitiated may be forewarned as to what to expect?

The futility of attempting to extract a reasonable response from you with regard to an inquiry is akin to opening an oyster with a bus ticket.

You fart bigotry and espouse separatism!

I can excuse your claims to academia - I cannot excuse your societal treason.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 23^rd, 2013 at 12:27am

Lionel Edriess wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2013 at 12:10am:

Lionel, despite what you claim I always endeavour to answer a straight question with a straight answer.

I'd suggest you, however appear to write far too much allegory. ;)

Quote:

You fart bigotry and espouse separatism!

Really? Care to provide some quotes where I have done this?

It always amuses me that when I challenge people to do that, they are rarely able to.

Quote:

I can excuse your claims to academia - I cannot excuse your societal treason.

"Societal treason"? So we must all agree with Lionel than on how our society was, is and forever will be?

Obviously you don't support the ideal of a pluralistic society, Lionel.

As I've always said, people like you cannot accept such an ideal, instead you desire uniformity and conformity. Usually to your views. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 23^rd, 2013 at 4:05pm

Quote:

Lionel, despite what you claim I always endeavour to answer a straight question with a straight answer.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D 8-)

You left off.... but continually fail... bwian

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 23^rd, 2013 at 4:06pm

Quote:

Lionel, despite what you claim I always endeavour to answer a straight question with a straight answer.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D 8-)

You left off.... but continually fail... bwian

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 23^rd, 2013 at 4:09pm

Finally.... so what gives with this glitch FD?

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 23^rd, 2013 at 9:24pm

Perhaps too much ad hominem, Beowulf? ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Oct 23^rd, 2013 at 9:51pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 8:19pm:

muso wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 7:14pm:

Matthew 7:3

Yep, pretty much so for Yadda. ;)

Laaazeee!!!! Very lazy, both Muso and Brain. Just amazingly reflex, uncritical mental laziness from both of you.

The one thing you CANNOT accuse Christianity of is lack of self-examination, lack of soul-searching. Islam has very little right to be critical of others because it has never been critical of itself - it has NEVER applied Matthew 7:3 to itself.

Not so Christianity or the Jews. Critical self-reflection is the very essence of both. To Islam, it is anathema.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 23^rd, 2013 at 10:45pm

You really don't understand how religious belief works, do you, Soren? ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 7:35am

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2013 at 10:45pm:

You really don't understand how religious belief works, do you, Soren? ::)

Thank you Brain, another one of your oblique, inadequate thoughts that nevertheless appears cohesive and insightful to you alone. This is typical of you because you have no actual cohesive and well-thought out argument on anything.
All you ever post is puffery, hyperbole, oblique side-glances and paradoxical cliches.

This is a case in point, as bad as any.

And now for "ah, if you don't understand oblique, inadequate thoughts, that's your problem, Sore."

Go on.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 10:56am

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2013 at 9:24pm:

Perhaps too much ad hominem, Beowulf? ::)

nah.... you've got years on everyone else there'll be no catching up to you bwian.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 10:57am

Looks like Soren doesn't understand "insightful oblique" comments, either.

Perhaps you need to widen your knowledgebase away from "how to iron your brown shirt" and "how to polish your jackboots"?

Or is that too "insightful and oblique" for you? :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 10:58am

Soren wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2013 at 9:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 8:19pm:

muso wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 7:14pm:

Matthew 7:3

Yep, pretty much so for Yadda. ;)

Islam is the perfect word of God, it corrects the defilement of His word, by those who are of the Book.
There is no need for correction or questioning, Islam is perfect.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 11:21am

Rather like many Christians belief their word is as well. To them, the Bible is inspired and the literal word of God.

I see more similarities than differences in all the Opiates of the world. Makes me wonder why you people get your knickers in twist over your fellow God believers. :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Sprintcyclist on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:48pm

Grendel wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 10:58am:

Soren wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2013 at 9:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 8:19pm:

muso wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 7:14pm:

Matthew 7:3

Yep, pretty much so for Yadda. ;)

Islam is the perfect word of God, it corrects the defilement of His word, by those who are of the Book.
There is no need for correction or questioning, Islam is perfect.

The intransigence of muslims is only one aspect that gives the free people of the world reason to dislike islam.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:47pm

Anti-Semites say similar things about the Jews. Racists about black or brown or yellow peoples. The real reason why you claim that is because you hate Muslims, not because of what all Muslims may say or do.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 25^th, 2013 at 2:21pm

|dev|null wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 11:21am:

You are clueless aren't you... your chioice in Islam today, is Dhimmitude, Submission/Conversion or Death... this is not the choice that today's Christians offer.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Oct 25^th, 2013 at 2:40pm

Grendel wrote on Oct 25^th, 2013 at 2:21pm:

|dev|null wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 11:21am:

You are clueless aren't you... your chioice in Islam today, is Dhimmitude, Submission/Conversion or Death... this is not the choice that today's Christians offer.

Interesting qualification there. What about the Christians of last week, a month ago, a year ago, a decade ago, a century ago?

Brian often makes the point that the Christianity of today is very different to the Christianity of yesteryear. That Christianity justified enslavement, exploitation, intolerance, hatred and bigotry. Rather like you do. :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by muso on Oct 25^th, 2013 at 7:29pm

Yadda wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 11:15pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 9:50pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 9:12pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 8:19pm:

muso wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 7:14pm:

Matthew 7:3

Yep, pretty much so for Yadda. ;)

Actually, Soren it is an admonishment against hubris.

Something all bigots suffer from. ::)

Ah.

And all moslems then ?

Many Muslims. I wouldn't say all. A few Christians too.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 25^th, 2013 at 7:53pm

|dev|null wrote on Oct 25^th, 2013 at 2:40pm:

Grendel wrote on Oct 25^th, 2013 at 2:21pm:

|dev|null wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 11:21am:

You are clueless aren't you... your chioice in Islam today, is Dhimmitude, Submission/Conversion or Death... this is not the choice that today's Christians offer.

Ok prove it....
1/ I know you can't prove it about me because it's a lie.
2/ How far back in history and how much cherry picking you gonna do?

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Oct 25^th, 2013 at 8:54pm

|dev|null wrote on Oct 25^th, 2013 at 2:40pm:

Whereas Islam is NOT AT ALL different today from the way it was on the day Mohammed died 1400 years ago.

But this salient point escapes both you and Brain and all the other blow-hard-thick-as-five-smacking-firedoors crazies.

You guys are stupid in a forever-innovative and surprising and unexpected way.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 25^th, 2013 at 11:15pm

Soren wrote on Oct 25^th, 2013 at 8:54pm:

|dev|null wrote on Oct 25^th, 2013 at 2:40pm:

Whereas Islam is NOT AT ALL different today from the way it was on the day Mohammed died 1400 years ago.

Actually it is, Soren. Only a fool assumes that. There has been several massive schisms, changes in interpretation and modernist movements within Islam.

Indeed, the very existence of the Salafist movement shows that Takfiri extremists believe that Islam has changed since it's inception.

Of course, your prejudice prevents you admitting that but hey, what else can we expect from you except ignorance? ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Yadda on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 1:39am

muso wrote on Oct 25^th, 2013 at 7:29pm:

Yadda wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 11:15pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 9:50pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 9:12pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 8:19pm:

muso wrote on Sep 29^th, 2013 at 7:14pm:

Matthew 7:3

Yep, pretty much so for Yadda. ;)

Actually, Soren it is an admonishment against hubris.

Something all bigots suffer from. ::)

Ah.

And all moslems then ?

Many Muslims. I wouldn't say all. A few Christians too.

muso,

All moslems.

muso,

All moslems, who declare themselves to be moslems, are faultless people. :P

All moslems, are the faultless people.

[goto my post #17 for details confirming this perfect human condition of the moslems]

muso,

'A few Christians too.' .....may claim that they consider themselves faultless.

I have not met any.

muso,

All moslems. know with a certainty, that they [the moslems] are the faultless people.

How else could men, with good conscience, murder their inferiors [witness ~~the actions of~~ the atrocities committed by the 'faultless' moslems in Iraq, Egypt, Syria, etc], except that they were doing God's work ???

Those faultless people,
bomb public markets,
they bomb and murder people at funerals,
they bomb and murder people attending mosques,
they bomb and murder people attending churches.

Dictionary;
hubris = = excessive pride or self-confidence. excessive pride or presumption towards the gods, leading to nemesis.

muso,

These people, these MOSLEM bombers are righteous people.

They are righteous moslems, who in good conscience, righteously murder, people who do not believe as they [moslems] believe,.i+++

muso,

I am a Christian.

And it is a great sin and a great moral error for me to shine a light upon the actions of such faultless people.

They refer to themselves, as moslems.

The righteous people.

Quote:

Who is a moslem ?

"Allah is my god, and Mohammed is his prophet."
[i.e. these, are the Allah, and the Mohammed, that are described in the Koran and Hadith]

By making such a declaration;

"I am a moslem.";

.....every moslem, is choosing to directly associate themselves with the 'religious' violence which ISLAM justifies, legitimises, promotes and encourages [within the moslem community].

And every moslem is thereby associating >> themselves << with every violent criminal act which is purposefully done, 'in the name of Allah/ISLAM'.

p.s.

muso,

I sleep well at night.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 11:03am

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 25^th, 2013 at 11:15pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 25^th, 2013 at 8:54pm:

|dev|null wrote on Oct 25^th, 2013 at 2:40pm:

Whereas Islam is NOT AT ALL different today from the way it was on the day Mohammed died 1400 years ago.

Come on bwian be totally honest and accurate for once... I'm still waiting for the correct information to come from you... a few hints... minority, apostates, not the real religion, don't just drop in the word Takfiri and not go into it, or call them extremists as if that means the same thing as it does in the West where extremists are normally very small minorities... etc, etc, etc... A Takfiri Sunni sees the world in black and white, Muslim and Kafir... a Takfiri's goal/mission is to re-create the Khalifate... oh dear how many Islamic NATIONS want to do that Bwian. Now we begin to see the numbers eh.

Much like the Catholics the Sunnis see themselves as the one true church... as with the Catholics, Sunnis command the greater number... Sunnis are about 85% of Muslims worldwide. The Sunni/Shia split is basically a political one. How many Sunnis are Takfiri bwian.. a couple, some, most... nations of them?

In my opinion the Arab Muslims/Sunnis, 85% of the Muslim world is quite a block and they and their Sunni brothers basically the other 15% agree on the goal of an Islamic world.

Dhimmi/Convert/Death.

Whereas Christianity does not hold such goals in the modern world... a point made to you over and over again.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 3:08pm

Why do I need to "go into it", Beowulf?

I assume that we are all familiar with the term, although, it appears from your post that you're not. A Takfiri doesn't have to believe in the Caliphate, indeed, some find the idea blasphemous. A Takfiri is a zealot - their interpretation of Islam is the only only valid one. Rather like the ideal of the Christian Puritans, if you need another simile.

Not all Sunni Muslims believe in the re-establishment of the Caliphate and I'm unsure why you believe that is the case.

A Khalifist, OTH does believe in the re-establishment of a Caliphate. A Takfiri can be a Khalifist. A Sunni or a Sh'ia can be a Khaifist, as can any of the other denominations or branches or schools of Islam. Khalifa overlays them all as an additional belief, Beowulf.

As for them being extremists, of course they are. By definition, a Takfiri is an extremist. A Salafist is an extremist. A Khalifist can be an extremist (depends on how much they believe the Caliphate should be re-established and what methods should be taken to achieve it). Mainstream Muslims don't accept their viewpoints and are all too often the victims of the adherents to them.

That you appear to believe all Muslims are extremists and should be condemned through guilt by association appears obvious, though. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 7:01pm

Good grief... strictly... Kufr in Arabic means disbelief, atheism, or blasphemy. Kafir is the adjective which means somebody who is an infidel, atheist or heathen. Takfir is to attribute this adjective to someone, eg; someone who castigates people and/or excommunicates them as Kafirs.

Sorry bwian but a Takfiri (zealot) certainly does believe in re-creating the Khalifate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takfiri
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takfir

Yes a Takfiri is a "zealot" bwian, as you say, but who are you to judge, they may just be a moderate by Islamic standards, right?

Let's see what recent leader in Iran was a believer in the re-creation of the Khalifate and the return of the Mahdi? Ever watch him give speeches to fellow believers and the military? I have. They are all zealots bwian if you don't want to call them Takfiri. Pedant that you are.

Now where were we? Oh yes... using your own words...

A Takfiri can be a Khalifist. A Sunni or a Sh'ia can be a Khaifist, as can any of the other denominations or branches or schools of Islam.

Gee thanks bwian ::) ::) ::) A takfiri "doesn't have to" go to the loo, but they do....

I crown you... Bwian, King of the Weasel Words, spineless apologetic.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 10:01pm

As other Muslims consider Takfiri as extremists, just as Christians do zealots or puritans, Beowulf I'll take their word for it.

Takfiri do not necessarily have to be Khalifa. They tend to go hand-in-hand but it isn't necessarily a precondition. Just as a Orthodox Jew doesn't necessarily have to be a member to of the The Temple Institute or the Temple Mount and Eretz Yisrael Faithful Movement.

I see though, you're returning to your normal modus operandi, so I won't be bothering with your next post as I know it will merely contain either one or all of these:

1. Personal insults;
2. A silly picture;
3. A silly cartoon.

That appears to pass in your mind for "debate". ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by muso on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 9:53am

Yadda wrote on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 1:39am:

Quote:

[quote]
Ah.

And all moslems then ?

Many Muslims. I wouldn't say all. A few Christians too.

muso,

All moslems, who declare themselves to be moslems, are faultless people. :P

All moslems, are the faultless people.

[/quote]

How does that relate to the fact that I said that most Muslims and some Christians are bigots?

I don't follow your line of argument.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Yadda on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 12:11pm

muso wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 9:53am:

Yadda wrote on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 1:39am:

Quote:

[quote]
Ah.

And all moslems then ?

Many Muslims. I wouldn't say all. A few Christians too.

muso,

All moslems, who declare themselves to be moslems, are faultless people. :P

All moslems, are the faultless people.

How does that relate to the fact that I said that most Muslims and some Christians are bigots?

I don't follow your line of argument.

[/quote]

We two, are standing on different mountaintops muso.

But i'm sure that your own perspective, from your own vantage point, is a valid one. ;)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 8:44pm

Grendel wrote on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 7:01pm:

Got nothing eh bwian.... just more excuses and denial of the real world.
You never change bwian you choose to ignore that which you cannot confront.
You really are a spineless apologetic.
I note you ran away before I even replied... how usual of you.
It is you who cannot hold a reasoned debate.
Who flees the truth and hides behind ignorance and bigotry.
Oh just so you aren't too disappointed I'm going for the lot this time...

You ignored everything I said about Iran.
You ignored the numbers involved.
The groups involved.
There's a lot of Takfiri in the world bwian... ignore them at your peril.
Zealotry abounds in the muslim world especially in the middle east.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 8:54pm

Quote:

Israeli Sheik: Jerusalem will soon fall to the Caliphate
Head of the northern faction of Israel's Islamic Movement, Sheikh Raed Salah, said Friday that "soon Jerusalem will be the capital of the new Muslim caliphate, and the caliph's seat will be there." Salah, an Israeli citizen, addressed an audience of 50,000 attending the Islamic Movement's 11th annual rally in Umm al-Fahm, in northern Israel. "Caliph" refers to the leader of a Muslim nation and in Arabic means "heir" or "substitute" of the prophet Muhammad. "The Israeli occupation will leave Jerusalem soon. It will happen sooner than is thought," Salah said at the rally. The event, held annually, has become an occasion for Israel's Muslim citizens to disparage their country and call for its destruction.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 9:04pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EBgqgIWuoc

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 12:41am

He's no longer in power, Beowulf, in case you missed the Iranian elections earlier this year. Iran is now starting to negotiate about dismantling it's nuclear weapons programme. Iran has learnt that it cannot defy the rest of the world.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 10:54am

Grendel is a troll. He lives in a cave or so the story tells us. Perhaps an obvious Freudian reference to his monstrousness? He certain posts like a troll. Little of content, just endless efforts at provocation and personal attack. Such a silly way to Troll. This is the way of unsubtle ones. Sensei Herbert on the otherhand, is a master Troll! :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by gizmo_2655 on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 3:07pm

|dev|null wrote on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 10:54am:

No. Grendel is NOT a troll...

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 5:48pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 12:41am:

Oh really bwian... gee tell me something I don't know for a change oh and for a change do it without lying. ::)

It is said in many places that the goal is still the same and that Rouhani is as bad as Ahmadinejad.

You ignored my other post.
You ignored the entire Iranian military and the tens of thousands of followers that turn up to his rallies and need I say it... agree with him.

I've seen them on SBS over the years and similar rallies in different countries of the middle east... zealots by the millions bwian, nations of zealots.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 9:28pm

Beowulf, I don't disagree that he's popular but he did lose the election which rather suggests you are puffing up his popularity for some reason. Could it be to try and paint the entire Iranian nation as being lunatics or something? You do know that even in Iran Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has always been considered a bit extreme?

Considering that he relied upon the rural poor for his power base, a power base that has rapidly decreased in size and hence votes due to the massive demographic shifts that Iran is presenting undergoing, I think its safe to say that his viewpoint is presently rather in the minority within Iran. Most Iranians have seen what his policies of antagonism and nuclear aggrandisement have wrought to their livelihoods are aren't happy with them. Hence their rejection of him in the last election.

As to whether his replacement will be sincere in his apparent desire for rapprochement with the West and the USA in particular, we'll have to see. Unlike you, I approach such matters with an open mind. I don't automatically assume that Muslims are evil, like you when you allow your obvious prejudices to do the thinking for you. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 29^th, 2013 at 9:49am

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 9:28pm:

Oh I do have an open mind.
I also face reality and bwian we aren't talking about any very small minority here.
I'm not prejudiced... just facing reality something I've never known you to do... well maybe once. The rest of the time you spout nonsense flame and insult people and their intelligence.
I have a very balanced attitude towards Islam and Muslims. Unfortunately the majority I have met and know of, do not have a reciprocal attitude to non-Muslims and the West.
I suggest you pull your head out bwian because...

Oh yes bwian obvious to everyone but to you your socks and Jnr.
When you do some real research and mix with more Muslims and find that real moderates are in the minority get back to me.
Muslims moderate or zealot put their Muslim brothers first... right or wrong....

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 29^th, 2013 at 10:13am

We all know... Iran's Supreme Leader is still Ali Khamenei btw.

Smooth-Talking Rouhani, Trash-Talking Ahmadinejad: Different Style, Same Substance

Whilst the West and others have been in talks with Iran they have been furthering their goals re becoming a nuclear power... Hussein wanted to lead the Arab world and so did Iran, there were factions in the Arab League due to these competing tensions. America put an end to any real competition to Iran.

Ahmadinejad later voiced these goals more publicly, and the goal of Arab Islam... the Caliphate and the mystic return of the Mahdi... We are talking about a religious state, not a secular nation. A nation led by a cleric... the Supreme Leader.

Quote:

In July 2005, Hasan Rouhani, then secretary of Iran's Supreme National Security Council and now president of Iran, proposed to the EU3, among other things:

* an agreement on initial limitations on uranium enrichment at the Natanz enrichment site, a facility revealed by the National Council of Resistance of Iran, the only pro-democracy organization that rejects clerical rule
*
* negotiations for full-scale operation of Natanz
*
* arrangements to import material for uranium conversion

But Rouhani, known as the "diplomatic sheikh," bragged about having duped the West in these negotiations. According to a March 2006 Telegraph article, Rouhani boasted that while nuclear talks took place in Tehran with the EU3, Iran was able to complete installation of equipment for conversion, a key stage in the nuclear fuel process, at its Isfahan plant.

The good news as the Rouhani era begins is that his words are soothing to our ears. It is good to hear from an Iranian president that he pledges to be moderate and flexible. The bad news is that Rouhani has only taken cosmetic steps to demonstrate moderation, and the West is bound to reach out even more to Rouhani because of a misperception of moderation.

Quote:

There is little evidence that Ahmadinejad and Rouhani differ on substance. A major stumbling block was and is Iran's claim to an inherent right to enrich uranium, which has been an obstacle in negotiations under successive Iranian presidents, including Ahmadinejad and Rouhani.

In addition to Iran's nuclear file, trash-talking Ahmadinejad and smooth-talking Rouhani see eye to eye on maltreatment of Iranian pro-democracy movements. Rouhani has not welcomed the National Council of Resistance of Iran, the largest unit of which is the People's Mojahedin Organization of Iran (PMOI), to participate in truly competitive elections. To do so would be to renounce the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran; it bestows on the supreme leader ultimate authority.

Indeed, Rouhani continues Ahmadinejad's policy of pressuring Baghdad to murder 52 members of the PMOI

Quote:

In comparison with the Ahmadinejad era of consistency between rhetoric and actions in the quest for nuclear capability and persecution of pro-democracy groups, the Rouhani era shows consistency of actions to acquire a nuclear weapons capability and mistreatment of pro-democracy movements.

The only difference between Ahmadinejad and Rouhani is in style, not substance.

http://shadow.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/09/23/smooth_talking_rouhani_trash_talking_ahmadinejad_different_style_same_substance

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 29^th, 2013 at 10:28am

More evidence of zealotry, lies and deception...(Taqiyya).
Imagine a culture, religion, way of life where lying and deception is acceptable.

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/fars-says-cnn-fabricated-rouhani-translation-2013-9

Quote:

It may seem minor, but the controversy over the quote may depress those who had been hopeful about Rouhani. Even his relatively tepid comments were too controversial for some back home. As Meir Javedanfar writes at Iran-Israel Observer, even with CNN’s translation Rouhani seems concerned about the opinion of Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei.

“On this question,” Javedanfar writes, “he pushed the envelope as far as it could go, without endangering his position with Khamenei, who to him is far more important than Netanyahu or Obama.”

Now whether or not Rouhani was genuine in his comments, the point to be made is the reaction "back home".

Lies and deception lead to mistrust...

http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/editorials/2013/10/03/benjamin-netanyahu-orders-diplomats-prematurely-skip-hasan-rouhani-speech/h0YXAXgQHobqQsPlYz8t8I/story.html

Quote:

ISRAELI PRIME Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his government had ample reason to avoid speeches by former Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who denied the Holocaust and threatened to wipe the Jewish state off the face of the map. But it stands to reason that the Israeli prime minister would at least hear out Iran’s new president, Hassan Rouhani, who has acknowledged the Holocaust and wished Jews a happy Rosh Hashana on Twitter. But Netanyahu treats the two leaders the same.

He recently ordered Israeli diplomats to leave the United Nations General Assembly during Rouhani’s speech, just as they did during Ahmadinejad’s fiery sermons. In dismissing Rouhani this week as a “wolf in sheep’s clothing,” Netanyahu implicitly gives Ahmadinejad a measure of credit for making his intentions transparent. “Ahmadinejad said, ‘We can get to nuclear weapons with a frown,’ ” Netanyahu said on “CBS This Morning.” “Rouhani says, ‘we can get to nuclear weapons with a smile.’ ”

In fact, Rouhani goes beyond the standard assurances that Iran will never develop a nuclear weapon and says his government will resolve all outstanding concerns about the program in the next 12 months. It’s too early to tell if those are empty promises, or a sign of a real change. No one faults Netanyahu for his skepticism.

Yet anyone who has kept their fingers on the pulse of this issue know that Iran's military have been deeply involved and clearly present at every step of the way in Iran's nuclear development and very closely aligned with Ahmadinejad.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Oct 29^th, 2013 at 12:48pm

Grendel wrote on Oct 29^th, 2013 at 9:49am:

Oh I do have an open mind.

The most ironic statement of the week goes to...! :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 29^th, 2013 at 5:27pm

|dev|null wrote on Oct 29^th, 2013 at 12:48pm:

Grendel wrote on Oct 29^th, 2013 at 9:49am:

Oh I do have an open mind.

The most ironic statement of the week goes to...! :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

More open than yours Jnr... you're just an ignorant bigot.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Oct 30^th, 2013 at 10:44am

Good to see your level of "debate" hasn't improved. Nor your sense of humour. :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Oct 30^th, 2013 at 7:51pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 3:08pm:

Talk about a many headed monster...

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Oct 30^th, 2013 at 8:16pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 25^th, 2013 at 11:15pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 25^th, 2013 at 8:54pm:

|dev|null wrote on Oct 25^th, 2013 at 2:40pm:

Whereas Islam is NOT AT ALL different today from the way it was on the day Mohammed died 1400 years ago.

Really?

So, which version of Islam would you be happy to live under?

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Yadda on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 10:49am

Yadda wrote on Apr 9^th, 2012 at 11:46am:

The Alawite moslems [i.e. the Syrian government forces] consider the Sunni moslem faction to be infidels.

And the Sunni moslem faction [i.e. the insurgents] consider the Alawite moslems to be infidels.

Quote:

....in the eyes of Moslems, anyone who is against him, can be called a kafir and then such barbaric practices get the blessing of the mullah, the representative of Allah. It is common knowledge that the Iranians call the Iraqis, infidels and vice versa. It is truly ingenious how Allah is made to support anything that the believer wants to do for his own satisfaction.

http://islamreview.org/korankafir/chapter15.html

i.e.
For the person who identifies himself as a moslem;

e.g.
"I am among the righteous. I am a moslem!"

.....any person, ANY PERSON, who disagrees or opposes the will of this moslem, [he] will always be regarded by the moslem, as a Kafir/infidel/as a piece of dog shiite under his shoe.

e.g.
In the lingering conflict that is being waged [wager-ed ?] in Syria, the Alawite moslems are the government forces [of Assad and his 'cronies'].

And the Sunnis moslems are the 'insurgents' [the 'terrorists'].

n.b.
Each side in this conflict has determined, that they 'are' the real moslems, and that their opponents 'are' infidels, oppressing the innocent and righteous moslems!

In this lingering conflict that is going on in Syria, the Alawite regard the Sunni moslems as infidels, BECAUSE, THEY ARE NOT Alawite/Shia!!!

And contra-wise, the Sunnis regard the Shia/Alawite moslems as infidels, BECAUSE, THEY ARE NOT Sunnis!!!

THIS MOSLEM 'DEMARCATION' PROBLEM [i.e. "Everyone who rejects my will, is a filthy infidel!"],
HIGHLIGHTS >> THE PROBLEM << WHICH WILL 'BITE' EVERY NON-MOSLEM ENTITY WHICH HAS DETERMINED [decided], TO TRY TO 'ACCOMMODATE' A MOSLEM [guest community].

i.e.
If ever a NON-MOSLEM ENTITY allows itself to be a host for a moslem community, the demands coming from moslems, for accommodation of their 'religious' ~~requirements~~ rights [i.e. the ever so slow, ISLAMISATION of the host society!] will always be 'proportional' and progressive, BUT, these progressive demands will be never ending.

And over time, the demands from the moslem [community] for accommodation of their 'religious' ~~requirements~~ rights [made to a NON-MOSLEM ENTITY], will grow more and more onerous [and more and more deleterious to the 'interests' [i.e. political power] of the NON-MOSLEM ENTITY].

But if ever the NON-MOSLEM ENTITY refuses to 'accommodate' the will of a moslem [i.e. all of his desires], the moslem will bide his time until he is strong enough, and once the moslem feels himself strong enough, the moslem will then begin to engage in a 'hot war' against those infidel hosts [the NON-MOSLEM host ENTITY], who are 'oppressing' the moslem, by refusing to 'accommodate' his right to practice his 'religion' [i.e. moslem 'religious' requirements which in effect, will set moslems above and superior to all non-moslems, in a society].

'Immigrant youths' in the Netherlands, protesting about 'injustice' against the moslem community.

The above is an nice 'theory' ?

Anti-moslem paranoia ?

....read on --->

AN EXAMPLE inadvertent exposure, of the real moslem intent [towards all disbelievers],
....an intent which is endorsed and 'authorised' by 'mainstream' ISLAM, and which is ~~revealed~~ exposed by this prestigious moslem scholar......

Quote:

Live in peace till strong enough to wage jihad, says UK Deoband scholar to Muslims
London, Sept.8 [2007]
A Deobandi scholar believes Muslims should preach peace till they are strong enough to undertake a jihad, or a holy war.
Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani was quoted by the BBC as saying that Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, only until they gain enough power to engage in battle.
A former Sharia judge in Pakistan's Supreme Court, 64-year-old Usmani, is...a regular visitor to Britain.
Polite and softly spoken....
He agreed that it was wrong to suggest that the entire non-Muslim world was intent on destroying Islam, but justifies an aggressive military jihad as a means of establishing global Islamic supremacy.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2409833.ece

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 10:54am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 3:07pm:

|dev|null wrote on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 10:54am:

No. Grendel is NOT a troll...

His MO is that of a troll. :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 11:58am

We know who the trolls are Jnr. :D ;D :D ;D :D

nice post yadda... especially like the last quote... no doubt bwian and Jnr will keep ignoring such things. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 12:31pm

Grendel wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 11:58am:

We know who the trolls are Jnr. :D ;D :D ;D :D

Yes, you're one of the worst. You claim you want debate yet all you do is scream and insult other people. Ad hominem debate doesn't do anything except enflame passions. Posting endless silly pictures and cartoons instead of addressing the arguments of your opponents, isn't debate. Posting endless claims of "liar" without evidence, isn't debate. You're not even funny, so what are you, except a troll?

At least the old man provides amusement with his Way of the Troll. You merely waste electrons. :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Quote:

nice post yadda... especially like the last quote... no doubt bwian and Jnr will keep ignoring such things. ::)

Why address it? It's just one more opinion. Who appointed this "scholar" the spokesman for all Muslims? I don't normally bother to address Yadda's posts 'cause I don't like hurting kindergarten children's feelings. :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 4:28pm

|dev|null wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 12:31pm:

Grendel wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 11:58am:

We know who the trolls are Jnr. :D ;D :D ;D :D

nice post yadda... especially like the last quote... no doubt bwian and Jnr will keep ignoring such things. ::)

Scream?
I've never raised my voice once... my blood pressure is fine too thanks.
If yadda posts quotes from Muslims and Muslim leaders then you need to open your bigoted little mind and take it on board.
Ignorance is bliss eh?

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 11:52pm

Still can't see much debate coming from your keyboard, Beowulf. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 1^st, 2013 at 6:10am

Must be the loss of your other eye giving you problems then bwian. 8-)

So far all I've seen from you is excuses and baseless off topic claims about me. ::) ::) ::)

It's always avoidance with you bwian always. :D ;D :D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 1^st, 2013 at 2:31pm

Still no debate, just further trolling! What a waste of electrons your comments are Grendell. :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 1^st, 2013 at 4:45pm

|dev|null wrote on Nov 1^st, 2013 at 2:31pm:

Still no debate, just further trolling! What a waste of electrons your comments are Grendell. :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Trolling?
You call your crap back to yadda debating...? ::)

Any time you and bwian can raise enough courage have a go. You're both rarely on the topic. Then you wonder why others aren't ::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 1^st, 2013 at 6:30pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 1^st, 2013 at 4:45pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 1^st, 2013 at 2:31pm:

Still no debate, just further trolling! What a waste of electrons your comments are Grendell. :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Trolling?
You call your crap back to yadda debating...? ::)

Nope, no more than you can call what you post back to myself or Brian debating. :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 1^st, 2013 at 7:31pm

Still can't see much debate coming from your keyboard, Beowulf. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 2^nd, 2013 at 12:27pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 1^st, 2013 at 7:31pm:

Still can't see much debate coming from your keyboard, Beowulf. ::)

Ditto....
and you wonder why?
be interesting to tally up all your real contributions against your claptrap personal shyt like the quoted post eh. :D ;D :D ;D :D
both you and Jnr fail the debate test bwian.

This crap is all you post... anyone who can read and see bwian knows you are a coward and can't debate a single point.

Both of you still haven't addressed my original post... ;D ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 3^rd, 2013 at 12:22am

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 3^rd, 2013 at 11:14am

Bwian bwian bwian... if you can't bring yourself to address and engage in the topic and all you do is flame then all you will get back is replies to that flame.
Frankly asking me to debate a flame is a waste of time. I've never asked you to debate a flame or return flame. Just the on topic content, which you continually avoid.
No use blaming others for your own faults and inadequacies.
Why have you not once addressed my initial comment?
Why do you keep obfuscating?
Why are you even here?
All you seem to do is pass judgement on your peers and attack them and their personalities... you libel people ad nauseam... no wonder you've been labelled a bigot.
How about you be as judgemental of "others" bwian... is that some sort of reverse xenophobia... anywhere else is better than here?
Come on bwian you profess to know so much and pay out on your lessers continuously, how about you actually engage and address what has been brought up... even that stuff you ignore because you have no answers.
Stop being a spineless apologetic and have the courage of your professed convictions.
it's about time you fessed up to being wrong on occasions too bwian... we know you are wrong... your obstinate stupidity and strawmen mark you for it continually.
How about YOU stop moving the goalposts for a change and address what other people actually say?
Here's your big chance to turn over a new leaf.
Time to embrace HONESTY

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 3^rd, 2013 at 7:32pm

Still can't see much debate coming from your keyboard, Beowulf. When you want to attempt some, I might be interested in taking part but as it seems you can only resort to ad hominem argument and insult, it really doesn't count, now does it? ::)

Your reading comprehension skills appear a bit poor, as well, if you can't figure out from that paragraph why I'm not "addressing your posts", then there isn't much hope for you, now is there, Beowulf? ::)

Do you want it explained to you? ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 12:18pm

Wunning away again bwian....??? ;D ;D ;D

Come on there is lots you could have addressed instead of me having to reply to your off topic crap continuously here.

Oh and bwian it's simple you are a coward and don't like being found to be wong. :D :D :D
better to ignore name call and wun away... ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 4:20pm

When you're explaining it to him Brian, remember to use words of only one syllable. He might get the idea then! :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 5^th, 2013 at 10:41pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 12:18pm:

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 12:48pm

Grendel isn't interested in debate. He's only interested in intimidation! :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 1:41pm

;D ;D ;D
Intimidation? moi?
Nope... try another word Jnr... and both of you stop wasting everyone's time.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 1:43pm

I had to go back a fair way, but guess what I found.... me trying to debate and both of you.... well, doing what apparently comes naturally.

::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 3:33pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 1:41pm:

;D ;D ;D
Intimidation? moi?
Nope... try another word Jnr... and both of you stop wasting everyone's time.

How is pointing out your hypocrisy wasting anybody's time? :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 3:35pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 1:43pm:

I had to go back a fair way, but guess what I found.... me trying to debate and both of you.... well, doing what apparently comes naturally.

::)

Provide a link and we'll see or can't you?

Betcha it's got a load of insults in there! Quick, edit it and then link to it! :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 10:56pm

|dev|null wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 3:35pm:

Grendel wrote on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 1:43pm:

I had to go back a fair way, but guess what I found.... me trying to debate and both of you.... well, doing what apparently comes naturally.

::)

Provide a link and we'll see or can't you?

Betcha it's got a load of insults in there! Quick, edit it and then link to it! :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

just page back Jnr. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 7^th, 2013 at 11:23pm

Still can't see much debate coming from your keyboard, Beowulf. When you want to attempt some, I might be interested in taking part but as it seems you can only resort to ad hominem argument and insult, it really doesn't count, now does it? ::)

Still having problem grasping the message, aren't you, Beowulf?

Got you kicked off the old D&R. Still haven't learnt anything from that experience it appears. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 8:14am

Soren wrote on Oct 30^th, 2013 at 8:16pm:

Really?

So, which version of Islam would you be happy to live under?

Hot Tits and Brain, you both very studiously avoid this question.

You never say what aspects of Islam you are happy to invite into your lives. I have asked you plenty of times and it is a very simple and straightforward question. You know I want none of it.

But you both avoid answering it because you know it cuts to the heart of your spineless apologetics for Islam.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 11:26am

I fail to see how it is relevant. I am not intending to move to a Muslim country at any time, so I will never live under any version of Islam. If I was, I would like to live under the tolerant and inclusive version of Islam practised in most of Indonesia. :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 12:12pm

|dev|null wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 11:26am:

So what aspects of Islam are you defending?

I am not asking which Muslim majority country has the most western characteristics.
What you like about Indonesia is what is least Islamic about it - tolerance and inclusiveness.

What I am asking you is what aspects of Islam are you defending?

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 12:42pm

|dev|null wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 11:26am:

You mean like burning out and harassing Indonesian Christians or blowing up non-Muslims and various venues where westerners frequent? ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 2:47pm

Soren wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 12:12pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 11:26am:

I'd have thought it was bloody obvious by now that I'm not defending any aspect as such of Islam. I am defending the religious freedom of Muslims. Personally, I think all religion is poppycock but that doesn't give me the right to persecute Muslims for their beliefs. For all I care, they could worship the Man in the Moon. You, on the otherhand think that because you disagree with their religion you can persecute them for their beliefs! :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 2:50pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 12:42pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 11:26am:

You mean like burning out and harassing Indonesian Christians or blowing up non-Muslims and various venues where westerners frequent? ::)

Still mistaking the actions of a minority for the what the majority believe?

Tell me, do you disagree with this statement?

Because some Australians are racists, all Australians must therefore be racists!

:D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 3:24pm

|dev|null wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 2:50pm:

Grendel wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 12:42pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 11:26am:

You mean like burning out and harassing Indonesian Christians or blowing up non-Muslims and various venues where westerners frequent? ::)

Not making a mistake at all.
Can't see the word "all" there at all.
Seems to me you are lying again and just made another strawman.
Good for you.
You must have a barn full by now. ;D
I was trying to make a point... one that apparently went whoosh right over your head.
When you get around to it you can try to provide an answer.... or continue on foolishly in the inevitable Ross fashion.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 5:08pm

|dev|null wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 2:47pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 12:12pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 11:26am:

SO you uncritically accept their every claim about how the world is and should be, every value judgement, every moral tenet, every plan for the future, every explanation of the past and the present?

Without question or critical remark. Because looking critically at Islam is, to you and Brain and ll those you epitomise, the same as religious persecution.

Which is a totally stupid position to have. But you rejoice in that very position.

Please explain.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 7:14pm

Soren wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 5:08pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 2:47pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 12:12pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 11:26am:

Why bother? you haven't comprehended what was said so far so it would be pointless attempting it. Just keep on with your religious persecution. You enjoy it. I enjoy mocking it. We're both happy. Right?

:D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 9^th, 2013 at 10:23am

Yet another giant contribution to the debate and more unanswered questions courtesy of the Ross Bwaintwust.

Who will no doubt post some more crap re this response. ::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Nov 9^th, 2013 at 1:48pm

|dev|null wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 2:47pm:

I'd have thought it was bloody obvious by now that I'm not defending any aspect as such of Islam. I am defending the religious freedom of Muslims.

So how is my freedom of conscience and speech, allowing me to criticise Islam, is religious persecution?

They are free to worship Allah - and I am free to say what I think about it.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 9^th, 2013 at 3:32pm

Yet it seems the only religious freedoms he wishes to uphold are those of Muslims.
It seems he is happy for Islam to impose restrictions on religious practice and tolerance.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 9^th, 2013 at 6:27pm

Soren wrote on Nov 9^th, 2013 at 1:48pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 2:47pm:

I'd have thought it was bloody obvious by now that I'm not defending any aspect as such of Islam. I am defending the religious freedom of Muslims.

So how is my freedom of conscience and speech, allowing me to criticise Islam, is religious persecution?

They are free to worship Allah - and I am free to say what I think about it.

Except when it is considered vilification/libel/slander/incitement/religious persecution, Soren. All things you should be aware of when you make your continued bigoted comments about Muslims and their religious beliefs.

Are you a Christian? Perhaps a member of Opus Dei? What about the Westboro Baptist Church? The Lord's Resistance Army? A member of the Dove World Outreach Center?

Sure looks like it, from your persecution of Muslims... ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 9^th, 2013 at 6:28pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 9^th, 2013 at 3:32pm:

Yet it seems the only religious freedoms he wishes to uphold are those of Muslims.
It seems he is happy for Islam to impose restrictions on religious practice and tolerance.

Really? What a strange conclusion to come to, Beowulf. One could almost conclude that you're actually lying but of course I'd never suggest that about you, now would I? ::) ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 9^th, 2013 at 6:46pm

Bwian you should stop being a hypocrite... didn't i warn you about using silly images?

Nice libel job on Soren BTW bwian. ::)
Not that you're a hypocrite or bigot right? :D ;D :D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 9^th, 2013 at 9:16pm

Libel? Since when was asking questions libellous, Beowulf?

It is interesting. It seems OK for Freediver to ask my religion. I saw nary a peep out of you on that little effort yet you jump to Soren's defence immediately. One might question your motives, perhaps? ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 9^th, 2013 at 10:44pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 9^th, 2013 at 9:16pm:

When they clearly infer things bwian. When there are no question marks. Then they are not questions ;D

I do wish you'd stop wasting my time with all these off topic questions.

So when are you going to engage on topic bwian? You know instead of all the personal crap you so like to invest in.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 10:11am

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 9^th, 2013 at 6:27pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 9^th, 2013 at 1:48pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 2:47pm:

I'd have thought it was bloody obvious by now that I'm not defending any aspect as such of Islam. I am defending the religious freedom of Muslims.

So how is my freedom of conscience and speech, allowing me to criticise Islam, is religious persecution?

They are free to worship Allah - and I am free to say what I think about it.

"considered", eh?

SO if you consider something vilification/libel/slander/incitement/religious persecution, then it is, therefore, vilification/libel/slander/incitement/religious persecution and suddenly the entire discussion is about your newly minted definition of something.

You debate with this peculiar habit all the time. You fill something with completely new meaning and then expect everyone to either to toe the new-thought line or be "considered" a bigot, racist, stupid, indulging in vilification/libel/slander/incitement/religious persecution.

I ask you: how is fear and dislike of Islam vilification/libel/slander/incitement/religious persecution? Why is it not simply a fear and dislike?

If I had a fear of heights, would I be slandering and vilifying tall buildings?

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 10:53am

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 10:11am:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 9^th, 2013 at 6:27pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 9^th, 2013 at 1:48pm:

|dev|null wrote on Nov 8^th, 2013 at 2:47pm:

I'd have thought it was bloody obvious by now that I'm not defending any aspect as such of Islam. I am defending the religious freedom of Muslims.

So how is my freedom of conscience and speech, allowing me to criticise Islam, is religious persecution?

They are free to worship Allah - and I am free to say what I think about it.

"considered", eh?

Yep. Remember, if an action was taken against you, it would be the courts considering it, so perhaps you should also consider it before you post?

Quote:

SO if you consider something vilification/libel/slander/incitement/religious persecution, then it is, therefore, vilification/libel/slander/incitement/religious persecution and suddenly the entire discussion is about your newly minted definition of something.

Nope, if the courts decide it is, it is, Soren. Forgotten what happened to Daniel Scot and Danny Nalliah?

Quote:

You debate with this peculiar habit all the time. You fill something with completely new meaning and then expect everyone to either to toe the new-thought line or be "considered" a bigot, racist, stupid, indulging in vilification/libel/slander/incitement/religious persecution.

I don't "fill something with completely new meaning," Soren. The "meaning" is always there, it's just that you, as a bigot don't recognise it. It takes a more reasonable voice, one whom can and does identify "it" as to what it is. If it's promoting the superiority of one "race" over another, it is racism. If it is persecuting a religion, it's bigotry or religious persecution. These are the correct labels, nothing more. If you don't like the labels, then stop making these arguments. Simple, really, isn't it?

Quote:

I ask you: how is fear and dislike of Islam vilification/libel/slander/incitement/religious persecution? Why is it not simply a fear and dislike?

It becomes vilification when it is taken out into the public sphere and promoted as you do, continually, Soren. It is based on distortions, ignorance and as you point out, fear and loathing which is of course prejudice and intolerance. Society has decreed these things are not acceptable in the case of innocent members of a groups such as Muslims. As I keep pointing out, you're an Islamophobe ad you've just admitted it by proclaiming your motive is "fear and loathing". ;)

Quote:

If I had a fear of heights, would I be slandering and vilifying tall buildings?

Tall buildings are not people, Soren. You are comparing apples and oranges in your usual grasping at anything to justify the unjustifiable.

You've revealed your Islamophobia. Now, if you'll admit you have a problem, I'm sure you can find help for it.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 10:57am

Grendel wrote on Nov 9^th, 2013 at 10:44pm:

[quote author=Brian_Ross link=1379892909/188#188 date=1383995802]Libel? Since when was asking questions libellous, Beowulf?

It is interesting. It seems OK for Freediver to ask my religion. I saw nary a peep out of you on that little effort yet you jump to Soren's defence immediately. One might question your motives, perhaps? ::)

When they clearly infer things bwian. When there are no question marks. Then they are not questions

I infer nothing, Beowulf. If a sentence has no question mark, it isn't a question by definition, it's a statement and nothing is inferable from it. It is direct. Is English your second language? ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 11:18am

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 10:53am:

1. Islam is not a person.
2. Disliking or fearing a religion or an ideology is not vilification and it has not been made illegal.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 11:32am

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 10:53am:

1. Islam is not a race so there is no promoting of a race over another when Islam is judged negatively and western democracy positively.
2. Fear and/or dislike f something is not persecuting it. Having a negative opinion of Islam is not religious persecution. We don't have to like it, you know.
3. Even having a negative opinion of you as a person is neither vilification nor persecution. It's a negative opinion.
4. "Stop making these arguments" - now there's the nub of it. You cannot how how I am wrong so you resort to threats and bandying of overinflated words of "bigotry, libel, vilification" and the like.

I asked you what part of Islam you like and would like to accept in your life but you never say.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 12:53pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 10:57am:

Grendel wrote on Nov 9^th, 2013 at 10:44pm:

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I do so enjoy it when you like proving my points bwian or twisting the truth so much you get yourself in knots. Lost in your tapestry of lies...

Just let me know when you will be getting back on topic instead of leading everyone off in ad hom land... you are slime bwian... that's a statement too.
Your pathetic defamation of people who disagree with you is beneath contempt.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 12:55pm

Bwian

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 1:02pm

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 11:18am:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 10:53am:

1. Islam is not a person.

Where did I suggest it was? ::)

Quote:

2. Disliking or fearing a religion or an ideology is not vilification and it has not been made illegal.

Making those attacks on the basis of "fear and loathing" as you have admitted, Soren, despite all your ignorant views being continually corrected, is by definition, Islamophobia, Soren. Get used to it. It is you.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 1:15pm

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 10:53am:

1. Islam is not a race so there is no promoting of a race over another when Islam is judged negatively and western democracy positively.

I didn't claim that Islam was a "race", Soren. I used "racism" as an example. Is your English comprehension really that bad?

Quote:

2. Fear and/or dislike f something is not persecuting it. Having a negative opinion of Islam is not religious persecution. We don't have to like it, you know.

Fear and/or loathing (lets use the word you used) is your rationale for your continued persecution of Muslims, Soren. That is irrational. That is Islamophobia.

Quote:

3. Even having a negative opinion of you as a person is neither vilification nor persecution. It's a negative opinion.

When that "negative opinion" is voiced continually and emphasised to the degree that you have, Soren, it moves from mere opinion to persecution. When it's basis is "racial"/sexual orientation/religious/ethnicity/etc., it becomes vilification.

Quote:

4. "Stop making these arguments" - now there's the nub of it. You cannot how how I am wrong so you resort to threats and bandying of overinflated words of "bigotry, libel, vilification" and the like.

I have made no threats, Soren. I have merely made observations. If I had said, "Keep making those arguments and I'll sue you!" I'd have been making a threat. I haven't said that you MUST STOP using those arguments. I have advised you that if you don't want those labels to be applied to your arguments, then stop using them. You appear unable to differentiate. Could it be that you don't realise there are limitations on free speech in Australia (and always have been)?

Quote:

I asked you what part of Islam you like and would like to accept in your life but you never say.

Why should I have to, Soren? I don't live in a Muslim country. Australia will never become one with less than 2% of the population claiming that religion as their faith. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 1:16pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 12:53pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 10:57am:

Grendel wrote on Nov 9^th, 2013 at 10:44pm:

*SIGH* I do wish you'd stop wasting our time with all these off topic questions. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 1:18pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 12:55pm:

Bwian

For a person who claims he craves debate, you appear to contribute nothing beyond silly pictures, insults, ad hominem and obfuscation, Beowulf. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 1:25pm

Bwian

rather ironic considering your name Brian ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 7:46pm

*SIGH* I do wish you'd stop wasting our time with all these off topic questions. For someone who claims they crave debate, you engage in so little, Beowulf. Such hypocrisy. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 9:04pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

[quote author=Brian_Ross link=1379892909/191#191 date=1384044792]

2. Fear and/or dislike f something is not persecuting it. Having a negative opinion of Islam is not religious persecution. We don't have to like it, you know.

Fear and/or loathing (lets use the word you used) is your rationale for your continued persecution of Muslims, Soren. That is irrational. That is Islamophobia.

I did not use the word loathing - wouldn't want to be as derivative as to nod towards Thompson and gonzo journalism.

Anyway, I do not see anything irrational in being fearful of Islam. People IN THE WEST are murdered and roughed up and harassed if they draw a cartoon, make a video, write a book, translate a book, make a speech that doesn't accept Islam's claims about itself.
And in the 'Muslim lands' they blow up each other every day because of ever so slight differences in view about Islam.

To say that there is nothing to be afraid of is pathological. To say that these things are not causes of fear is pathological.

If I said 'I dislike all religion' you'd be cool with that. When I say I dislike a particular religion, you are all over the shop about bigotry, racism, vilification and all that over-invested puffery that is your speciality.

I don't have to like Islam. As a freeborn man, I can say that. Who the bugger are you to tell me what I have to like and respect?

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 9:26pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

3. Even having a negative opinion of you as a person is neither vilification nor persecution. It's a negative opinion.

Islam is not a person, Brain. It has no rights. Persons have rights.

You would have us believe that disagreeing with every aspect of an ideology is persecution of that ideology. I have to agree with/like some aspects of Islam, otherwise I am persecuting Islam.

This is what you are saying and I think it is idiotic AND menacing to an exceptional degree. You are actually menacing me and others with this sort of low-burning rancorous bvllshit.

If I slagged off modernist architecture at every turn, you wouldn't ride to the rescue of modernist architecture and architects and the partisans of modernist architecture.

What is it about Islam that is so dear to your heart? There are plenty of expressions of dislike for plenty of things on these boards but it is only disagreement and dislike of Islam that gets you going.

You should come clean and tell us about your special relationship with it.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 9:37pm

If I remember right..... bwian has claimed in the past to have a few indonesian fwends...

You know bwian... that's enough to make him an expert and judge everyone else on the planet.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 9:44pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

I asked you what part of Islam you like and would like to accept in your life but you never say.

Why should I have to, Soren?

You don't have to.

But why wouldn't you say what you like about it. Or are you ashamed of it?
You defend Islam at every turn. It is only natural to ask what you like and embrace about it. Why the big secrecy about where you stand with Islam?

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 8:57am

Fatwa... don't worry bwian, you'll be safe. ;D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 1:59pm

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 9:44pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

I asked you what part of Islam you like and would like to accept in your life but you never say.

Why should I have to, Soren?

Why do you feel the need to know? Perhaps we could ask why you "fear and loath" Islam so much? Did a big bad Muslim scare you as a child? :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Ezy Va on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 2:05pm

We are all brothers if we do open our hearts!

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 3:10pm

Ezy Va wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 2:05pm:

We are all brothers if we do open our hearts!

You realise that is impossible for Soren, Freediver, Yadda, Grendel, etc.?

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 11:15pm

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 9:04pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 10:53am:

2. Fear and/or dislike f something is not persecuting it. Having a negative opinion of Islam is not religious persecution. We don't have to like it, you know.

Fear and/or loathing (lets use the word you used) is your rationale for your continued persecution of Muslims, Soren. That is irrational. That is Islamophobia.

I did not use the word loathing - wouldn't want to be as derivative as to nod towards Thompson and gonzo journalism.

You're right, you didn't. I Unreservedly apologise, Soren.

Quote:

Anyway, I do not see anything irrational in being fearful of Islam.

More rational people than you would differ. There is nothing to fear from a religion, Soren, unless you are irrational or paranoid. Are you either or both?

[quote]
People IN THE WEST are murdered and roughed up and harassed if they draw a cartoon, make a video, write a book, translate a book, make a speech that doesn't accept Islam's claims about itself.

Yes they are. Is that the fault of the religion or is it the fault of some of it's followers who refuse to enter into the 21st century? You blame every Muslim for the acts of a few, Soren.

Quote:

And in the 'Muslim lands' they blow up each other every day because of ever so slight differences in view about Islam.

Yes they do. Rather as did the Catholics and the Protestants in Belfast. However, I suspect you'd never blame Christianity for that! ::)

Quote:

To say that there is nothing to be afraid of is pathological. To say that these things are not causes of fear is pathological.

If I said 'I dislike all religion' you'd be cool with that. When I say I dislike a particular religion, you are all over the shop about bigotry, racism, vilification and all that over-invested puffery that is your speciality.

Yes. If you hate all religions equally, then you are being even-handed, Soren. Obviously if you only hate one, you're not. Simple really. That you persecute Muslims for their beliefs indicates a hatred that is irrational.

Quote:

I don't have to like Islam. As a freeborn man, I can say that.

Yes you can but do you have to keep repeating it so volubly and more often than not, so viciously?

Quote:

Who the bugger are you to tell me what I have to like and respect?

I'm not. You must merely tolerate it, Soren. Just as we must tolerate you and your opinions.

I wonder though, if your need to continually repeat your fear and dislike so much indicates uncertainty on your part? ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 13^th, 2013 at 2:37pm

Got nothin' I see bwian... just trying to gum up the works with your vilifying individuals and moralising again.

Come on bwain surely you can do better than that?

How do you accomodate a religion which expects all to submit to the will of their God? All to become Muslim?
Do we all become spineless apologetics and dhimmis perhaps, and/or pay jizya/tax... protection money... ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by wally1 on Nov 13^th, 2013 at 9:07pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2013 at 2:37pm:

They are already accommodated and established.

Muslims are increasing in Australia.There building schools, mosques, establishing businesses, going to uni.

In one night muslim organisations can fundraise up to 1 million dollars to build a new Islamic centre, mosque, school or special projects.

Only a imbicile would start a heading like that.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by True Colours on Nov 14^th, 2013 at 12:49am

Grendel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2013 at 2:37pm:

How do you accomodate a religion which expects all to submit to the will of their God? All to become Muslim?

There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever rejects oppressive falsehood, and believes in God, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And God is All-Hearer, All-Knower.
- the Quran, al-Baqarah, v.256

Say: "O Deniers [of monotheistic faith]; I am not worshipping [false gods] that you worship; And you are not worshipping [God Almighty] that I worship; And I will not worship [false gods] that you are worshipping; And you are not worshipping [God Almighty] that I worship; Then to you be your religion [polytheism], and to me be my religion [Islamic Monotheism]."
- the Quran, al-Kaafiroon

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 14^th, 2013 at 10:02am

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Really then please explain why Muslims conquests involved killing mostly everyone who refused to convert, killing apostates, etc, etc, etc...

Oi FD.... I tried posting some images to back up my claims and guess what... your site wont let me...
please explain.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 14^th, 2013 at 10:05am

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 14^th, 2013 at 3:27pm

Study at the Yadda School of Trolling now? :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 14^th, 2013 at 10:50pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 14^th, 2013 at 10:05am:

The reason why the image doesn't display is rather obvious really - if you look at the URL it contains the at symbol - "@". The BB software obviously believes it's an email address, Beowulf. I'd recommend using a hosting image site, such as Image Shack which will translate the mangled URL into something sensible which the BB software will accept.

However, resorting to silly pictures is of course not a replacement for the debate you claim you crave so much, now is it. Particularly when the image is posted without commentary or even a caption. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 15^th, 2013 at 9:26am

A picture is worth a thousand words bwian I already made my claim... I was posting evidence you could see instead of read and deny.

Oh and I wouldn't be sure the @ symbol was the cause since I used various sources, but thanks I'll double check.

Well there you go for some reason s o d a h e a d is changed to sp@m.... so the url address that was posted was changed somehow... fd?

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 9:47am

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 11:15pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 9:04pm:

Anyway, I do not see anything irrational in being fearful of Islam.

More rational people than you would differ. There is nothing to fear from a religion, Soren, unless you are irrational or paranoid. Are you either or both?

I am not afraid of the of private, devotional aspects of Islam.

I am afraid of its political, legal, social design on the world.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 9:51am

True Colours wrote on Nov 14^th, 2013 at 12:49am:

There is no compulsion in religion.

That's right - you can choose to remain a second-class citizen, a dhimmi, and pay for the privilege. No compulsion in religion does not mean religious freedom.

This is the sleight of hand Muslims use every time thy trot out this little gem.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 1:32pm

Soren wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 9:47am:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 11:15pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 9:04pm:

Anyway, I do not see anything irrational in being fearful of Islam.

More rational people than you would differ. There is nothing to fear from a religion, Soren, unless you are irrational or paranoid. Are you either or both?

I am not afraid of the of private, devotional aspects of Islam.

I am afraid of its political, legal, social design on the world.

Well I guess that is just proof of what an idiot bwian is.
9/11, London, Spain, Bali, Jakarta, etc, etc, etc...

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 3:27pm

Soren wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 9:47am:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 11:15pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 9:04pm:

Anyway, I do not see anything irrational in being fearful of Islam.

More rational people than you would differ. There is nothing to fear from a religion, Soren, unless you are irrational or paranoid. Are you either or both?

I am not afraid of the of private, devotional aspects of Islam.

I am afraid of its political, legal, social design on the world.

Ah, so a religion made up by many, diverse and different sects, denominations, and individual beliefs now has a coherent, unified "political, legal, social design on the world"? Soren, your paranoia appears to know no bounds. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 3:28pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 1:32pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 9:47am:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 11:15pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 9:04pm:

Anyway, I do not see anything irrational in being fearful of Islam.

More rational people than you would differ. There is nothing to fear from a religion, Soren, unless you are irrational or paranoid. Are you either or both?

I am not afraid of the of private, devotional aspects of Islam.

I am afraid of its political, legal, social design on the world.

Well I guess that is just proof of what an idiot bwian is.
9/11, London, Spain, Bali, Jakarta, etc, etc, etc...

All deranged individuals and groups whom cannot claim to represent what the majority, mainstream views of Muslims are, Beowulf. It's like suggesting you and Soren represent what the majority of Australians believe! ;D ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 10:45pm

round and round we go... on the bwian - go -round.

Honestly bwian do we have to keep explaining it to you year after year month after month week after week day after day? :D ;D :D ;D :D

better you do us all a favour and go back and read all the stuff we posted previously all over the forum again. ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Soren on Nov 25^th, 2013 at 7:51am

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 3:27pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 9:47am:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 11:15pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 9:04pm:

Anyway, I do not see anything irrational in being fearful of Islam.

More rational people than you would differ. There is nothing to fear from a religion, Soren, unless you are irrational or paranoid. Are you either or both?

I am not afraid of the of private, devotional aspects of Islam.

I am afraid of its political, legal, social design on the world.

The jihadists are setting the Islamic agenda. Look around, don't just parrot diversity puffery.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Datalife on Nov 25^th, 2013 at 8:43am

You could draw a venn for Brian demonstrating the common intersection of his "many", "diverse", "different sects" and "denominations" but it will not aid the fools comprehension and he will still be excusing Islamic atrocities and finding himself unable to criticise religious fundies chopping off the heads of unbelievers.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Yadda on Nov 25^th, 2013 at 9:56am

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 3:28pm:

Grendel wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 1:32pm:

Well I guess that is just proof of what an idiot bwian is.
9/11, London, Spain, Bali, Jakarta, etc, etc, etc...

All deranged individuals and groups whom cannot claim to

represent what the majority, mainstream views of Muslims are,

Beowulf. It's like suggesting you and Soren represent what the majority of Australians believe! ;D ::)

brian,

Like so many apologists for ISLAM, you make the [deceitful and false] claim that the 'extremists', and the moslems who are justifying political violence do not represent "what the majority, mainstream views of Muslims are".

That is a diversion-ary lie.

It is a lie whose intent, is to divert responsibility, for the social and religious violence which ISLAM >> does << promote and encourage, away from ISLAM.

Your argument goes;
"Oh, we all denounce the violence of the extremists. But we should allow the peaceful moslems to practice and follow their religion, ISLAM."

As though mainstream ISLAM had no direct and real influence upon the 'extremist' moslems, and the moslems who are justifying political violence.

brian,

Like so many apologists;

What you are doing is trying to segregate 'moslems1' from 'moslems2', based upon their 'apparent' behaviour [no matter, that the beliefs and motives of moslems1, and moslems2, are the same beliefs and motives].
[.......supposing if moslems1, being extremists ...and moslems2, being 'moderate'.]

The truth is that there is no difference between moslems1, and moslems2, except their opportunity and access to the means [to demonstrate their religious extremism and violence].

The social tents and laws of ISLAM, justify and encourage violence against persons who are not moslems -
PRECISELY BECAUSE THOSE PERSONS WHO ARE NOT MOSLEMS, HAVE AUTHORITY OVER MOSLEMS
[We in Australia, i.e. persons who are not moslems, are able to make laws, which moslems are compelled to comply with, and that is a 'situation' which moslems absolutely abhor! Moslems want to destroy our society, by destroying its laws, and destroying its institutions. Because ISLAM is a better way, mad moslems believe.]

IMAGE...

Sydney CBD, 2012, moslem street protests.
Moslems, demanding the right to exercise their 'religious freedom'.
Moslems, demanding the right to 'practise their religion'.
Moslems, proclaiming their 'religious' right to murder persons [who are not moslems] who 'offend' moslems, by refusing to believe as they [moslems] believe.

AND MAKE NO MISTAKE, THAT, IS WHAT ISLAM TEACHES, ...ALL MOSLEMS [FROM CHILDHOOD].

Q.
WHAT DOES THAT IMAGE [above] DEPICT ?;
1/ A group of moslems, on the streets of a Western nation.
2/ A group of moslems, on the streets of a Western nation, exercising their lawful right >>> to express <<< their views and opinions, publicly.
3/ A group of moslems, on the streets of a Western nation, who are, ALSO, inciting the murder of persons who would dare to PUBLICLY EXPRESS, that they [non-moslems], do not believe as they [moslems] believe.
4/ A group of moslems, on the streets of a Western nation, demanding their right to exercise their 'freedom of religion',
...i.e. their 'right', to kill people who do not believe as they [moslems] believe.
5/ A group of moslems, on the streets of a Western nation, who [by their own PUBLIC DECLARATIONS] are seeking to intimidate [into silence] all other persons who may wish to PUBLICLY EXPRESS, that they [non-moslems], do not believe as they [moslems] believe.

AND #6/ What is being displayed, is group of moslems, religious bigots, openly and publicly 'demonstrating', just how 'peaceful' ISLAM and moslems really are.

Does anybody doubt that if members of the moslem community within Australia had ready access to AK47's, that we would not see a great deal of religious extremism and violence being perpetrated by moslems, in Australia, against non-moslems ?

And that religious violence would be being justified on religious grounds, i.e. as;
"Those Australians insulted our religion! We killed those infidels because we are defending ISLAM!!"

+++

Here in Australia, if you drive past a mosque,
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1384868573/0#0

Quote:

Who is a moslem ?

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.

Google;
Shahadah

The Shahadah is the ISLAMIC declaration of faith [so as to become a moslem].

The Shahadah goes;

[quote]

“There is no god but Allah; Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.”

Do not be fooled, a person who self declares as a moslem, is a follower of ISLAM.

And ISLAM is a murderous death cult.

ISLAM's own foundation religious texts [which can be perused by anyone!] openly attest to that undeniable fact.

And the declarations of many of ISLAM's own religious scholars attest to that undeniable fact.

[/quote]

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Hot Breath on Nov 25^th, 2013 at 10:24am

Grendel wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 10:45pm:

Perhaps you should the same but this time, try it with an open mind. Of course that's an alien concept to you but at least give it a go! :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 25^th, 2013 at 12:26pm

hey there peanut bwain....

Do try to stay on topic and not force me to continually address the personal crap you post.

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 25^th, 2013 at 8:21pm

Soren wrote on Nov 25^th, 2013 at 7:51am:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 3:27pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 9:47am:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 11:15pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 10^th, 2013 at 9:04pm:

Anyway, I do not see anything irrational in being fearful of Islam.

More rational people than you would differ. There is nothing to fear from a religion, Soren, unless you are irrational or paranoid. Are you either or both?

I am not afraid of the of private, devotional aspects of Islam.

I am afraid of its political, legal, social design on the world.

The jihadist are setting the Islamic agenda. Look around, don't just parrot diversity puffery.

What? One of them is doing that for the other 1.6 billion, Soren? Really? ::) ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Brian Ross on Nov 25^th, 2013 at 8:22pm

|dev|null wrote on Nov 25^th, 2013 at 10:24am:

Grendel wrote on Nov 24^th, 2013 at 10:45pm:

Perhaps you should the same but this time, try it with an open mind. Of course that's an alien concept to you but at least give it a go! :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

You do realise you are asking for a miracle? ::)

Title: Re: The futility, of trying to accommodate moslems
Post by Grendel on Nov 25^th, 2013 at 9:24pm

Are you flaming/trolling me again bwian? ::) ::) ::)
you should try facing the truth/facts bwian you have been told so many times... yet you keep coming back to the same spot... it is tedious and a sign of your stupidity and denial.