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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl Member Run Boards >> Environment >> Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet. http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1382537757 Message started by Chimp_Logic on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:15am

Title: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Chimp_Logic on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:15am

Earlier this year I attended a public lecture given by David Spratt. One important highlight that emerged from this informative lecture was the survivability of the Greenland ice sheet as the earth warms.

Will the Greenland Ice Sheet survive if the Arctic were sea-ice-free in summer and winter?

“not only is ice sheet survival unlikely but its disintegration would be a wet process that can proceed rapidly” – James Hansen

The tipping point for Greenland revised to 1.6 deg C above pre-industrial (uncertainty range is 0.8 to 3.2 deg C)
(Robinson et al., Nature Climate change 2: 429-432)

Paleo-Climate record shows that Greenland ice-sheet formed at less than 400 ppmv and we are at these CO2 levels now.

David Spratt’s opinion is that we have already crossed the Greenland ice sheet melt tipping point and we will only know in retrospect.

Get your atlases out ladies and gentlemen and check out HOW big Greenland is and find out how thick the ice sheet is.

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by namnugenot on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 11:38am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:15am:

So what?
Greenland melts...it disrupts the Atlantic conveyer...stops the Gulf Stream and before you can say Jimminy Cricket...you have an ice sheet again...only bigger...then you can have lots of sea ice...you should be up there with a hair dryer!

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Chimp_Logic on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 11:43am

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 11:38am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:15am:

HOW DARE you proclaim yourself as the first respondent to this thread topic

Don't let it happen again you putrid residue of foul stenched sloth droppings

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by namnugenot on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 11:57am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 11:43am:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 11:38am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:15am:

HOW DARE you proclaim yourself as the first respondent to this thread topic

Don't let it happen again you putrid residue of foul stenched sloth droppings

Rant, rant, rant, blah, blah, blah,... you've got nothing

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Chimp_Logic on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:02pm

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 11:57am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 11:43am:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 11:38am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:15am:

HOW DARE you proclaim yourself as the first respondent to this thread topic

Don't let it happen again you putrid residue of foul stenched sloth droppings

Rant, rant, rant, blah, blah, blah,... you've got nothing

...has your church group and its deranged laboratory priests managed to identify a modelling regime and theoretical framework, that shows a cooling or static temperature trend as atmospheric CO2 levels increase?

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Vuk11 on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:07pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 11:43am:

HOW DARE you proclaim yourself as the first respondent to this thread topic

Don't let it happen again you putrid residue of foul stenched sloth droppings

rudda_001.jpg (69 KB | 56 )

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by namnugenot on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:08pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:02pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 11:57am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 11:43am:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 11:38am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:15am:

HOW DARE you proclaim yourself as the first respondent to this thread topic

Don't let it happen again you putrid residue of foul stenched sloth droppings

Rant, rant, rant, blah, blah, blah,... you've got nothing

Why would I when they have nothing to do with one another to any significant level...Cambrian 7000ppm and temperature ??????
Starting to like you chimp...you really are e a barrel of fun...

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Chimp_Logic on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:30pm

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:08pm:

Why would I when they have nothing to do with one another to any significant level...Cambrian 7000ppm and temperature ??????

nam maggot wants to regress back to the Cambrian era ladies and gentlemen

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by namnugenot on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:47pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:30pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:08pm:

Why would I when they have nothing to do with one another to any significant level...Cambrian 7000ppm and temperature ??????

nam maggot wants to regress back to the Cambrian era ladies and gentlemen

Why isn't the water boiling?
And those yummy looking seafood dead?
Guess it's not that hot after all!!!

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Chimp_Logic on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:54pm

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:47pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:30pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:08pm:

Why would I when they have nothing to do with one another to any significant level...Cambrian 7000ppm and temperature ??????

nam maggot wants to regress back to the Cambrian era ladies and gentlemen

Why isn't the water boiling?
And those yummy looking seafood dead?
Guess it's not that hot after all!!!

When did the first mammals appear in earths history?

When did the first hominids appear?

You want to return Everybody and everything to the comforts of a 0.7% CO2 atmospheric level?

Where do you get your lies from?

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by namnugenot on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:26pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:54pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:47pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:30pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:08pm:

Why would I when they have nothing to do with one another to any significant level...Cambrian 7000ppm and temperature ??????

nam maggot wants to regress back to the Cambrian era ladies and gentlemen

Why isn't the water boiling?
And those yummy looking seafood dead?
Guess it's not that hot after all!!!

No just showing the absurdity of your link between global temperature and CO2.
In any case you think the burning of fossil fuels was a huge mistake...which drove the industrial revolution...which gave you many of the things you take for granted...and without the industrial revolution you would probably be in some hovel somewhere wondering where your next banana was coming from. So I hope you're not taking all these benefits...otherwise...you're a hypocrite.

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by muso on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:34pm

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:47pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:30pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:08pm:

Why would I when they have nothing to do with one another to any significant level...Cambrian 7000ppm and temperature ??????

nam maggot wants to regress back to the Cambrian era ladies and gentlemen

Why isn't the water boiling?
And those yummy looking seafood dead?
Guess it's not that hot after all!!!

Well you brought it up. What was the air temperature and the sea bed temperature?

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Chimp_Logic on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:38pm

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:26pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:54pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:47pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:30pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:08pm:

Why would I when they have nothing to do with one another to any significant level...Cambrian 7000ppm and temperature ??????

nam maggot wants to regress back to the Cambrian era ladies and gentlemen

Why isn't the water boiling?
And those yummy looking seafood dead?
Guess it's not that hot after all!!!

No just showing the absurdity of your link between global temperature and CO2.
.

I see.... so now you are claiming that CO2 is NOT a greenhouse gas

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by muso on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:46pm

How many doublings of CO2 to get to 7000ppm? Start at 300ppm. (The actual figure from Geocarb III is between 2000 and 8000 ppm.)

Allow 3 degrees per doubling as a rule of thumb. Multiply the number of doublings by 3 and add 4 degrees (current deep ocean temperature.) That should give you the approximate ocean floor temperature during the Cambrian period, with the usual high error for 500 million years in the past.

What do you get? Does that come close to Boiling Point?

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by namnugenot on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 2:06pm

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:34pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:47pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:30pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:08pm:

Why would I when they have nothing to do with one another to any significant level...Cambrian 7000ppm and temperature ??????

nam maggot wants to regress back to the Cambrian era ladies and gentlemen

Why isn't the water boiling?
And those yummy looking seafood dead?
Guess it's not that hot after all!!!

Well you brought it up. What was the air temperature and the sea bed temperature?

Forgot to mention water acidity... :-[

How far are we talking from volcanic vents here?
Sea bed?...you are familiar with the concepts of shallow and deep and the resulting differentials in temperature?
But on average...and taking into account the current temperatures of both...and the indisputable fact that CO2 and temperature are absolutely and completely linked as handed down on the Al Gore tablets...and diffusion effects...that would be...let me see...carry the one....17.5 times...oh... unless it's all crap.

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by namnugenot on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 2:15pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:38pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:26pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:54pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:47pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:30pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:08pm:

Why would I when they have nothing to do with one another to any significant level...Cambrian 7000ppm and temperature ??????

nam maggot wants to regress back to the Cambrian era ladies and gentlemen

Why isn't the water boiling?
And those yummy looking seafood dead?
Guess it's not that hot after all!!!

No just showing the absurdity of your link between global temperature and CO2.
.

I see.... so now you are claiming that CO2 is NOT a greenhouse gas

Again...you misrepresent me...and greenhouse gases for that matter...ALL OF THEM...they are beneficial and make the planet habitable.

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by namnugenot on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 2:52pm

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:46pm:

Rules of thumb....nice to know. So say we had zero CO2 (besides being a real bummer) what would the average world air temperature be? seeing as it's 15 degrees now?

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by muso on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:09pm

300 double that
1. 600 double that
2. 1200 double that
3. 2400 double that
4. 4800 double that
5. 9600.

let's say 4 and a bit doublings at 3 degrees per doubling. 12-16 plus 4 = 16-20 degrees C deep ocean temperature. The deep ocean was where life existed during the Cambrian Period.

Of course it's more than that because of feedbacks. The estimates that I've seen show average ocean temperatures of around 40 degrees C and average atmospheric temperatures of around 50 degrees during the Cambrian, but obviously cooler than that on the ocean floor.

Then you'd have to take into account the very different ocean currents, the totally different landmass configuration, the difference in the sun's luminosity and quite a few other factors.

Now what was your argument again? I must have missed it.

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by muso on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:15pm

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 2:52pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:46pm:

Rules of thumb....nice to know. So say we had zero CO2 (besides being a real bummer) what would the average world air temperature be? seeing as it's 15 degrees now?

About -18 C is what I've seen quoted.

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Chimp_Logic on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:28pm

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:46pm:

...and that estimate does not take into account any predictable and unforseen tipping points

you seem to have found another fired in here muso

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by namnugenot on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:46pm

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:15pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 2:52pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:46pm:

Rules of thumb....nice to know. So say we had zero CO2 (besides being a real bummer) what would the average world air temperature be? seeing as it's 15 degrees now?

About -18 C is what I've seen quoted.

That's no atmosphere at all at -18 C or 33 C lower from the present...so by that measure 100% of the atmospheric greenhouse gas is CO2 as the sole gas responsible for warming...interesting...do you have that one locked in?... or might I suggest you phone a friend...

Just as a matter of interest would you consider gaseous H2O a gas?

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Chimp_Logic on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:49pm

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:46pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:15pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 2:52pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:46pm:

Rules of thumb....nice to know. So say we had zero CO2 (besides being a real bummer) what would the average world air temperature be? seeing as it's 15 degrees now?

About -18 C is what I've seen quoted.

you seem to be very friendly with muso - do you know him>?

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by namnugenot on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:52pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:28pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:46pm:

...and that estimate does not take into account any predictable and unforseen tipping points

you seem to have found another fired in here muso

What do you mean "unforseen"...that would suggest you don't know everything...you don't even know what you're uncertain about...nice to know.

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by namnugenot on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:55pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:49pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:46pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:15pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 2:52pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:46pm:

Rules of thumb....nice to know. So say we had zero CO2 (besides being a real bummer) what would the average world air temperature be? seeing as it's 15 degrees now?

About -18 C is what I've seen quoted.

you seem to be very friendly with muso - do you know him>?

I'm friendly with everyone...didn't I say I liked you...despite all the nasty and hurtful things you've said about me.

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Chimp_Logic on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 4:00pm

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:55pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:49pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:46pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:15pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 2:52pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:46pm:

Rules of thumb....nice to know. So say we had zero CO2 (besides being a real bummer) what would the average world air temperature be? seeing as it's 15 degrees now?

About -18 C is what I've seen quoted.

you seem to be very friendly with muso - do you know him>?

I'm friendly with everyone...didn't I say I liked you...despite all the nasty and hurtful things you've said about me.

Still cant find a model that predicts a cooling/static temperature scenario as CO2 levels rise?

you should be honoured to receive a bio-technical insult from me.

I don't just hand them out willy nilly, you filthy cast of smelly rodent excrement mould

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by muso on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 4:46pm

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:46pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:15pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 2:52pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:46pm:

Rules of thumb....nice to know. So say we had zero CO2 (besides being a real bummer) what would the average world air temperature be? seeing as it's 15 degrees now?

About -18 C is what I've seen quoted.

What happens to the vapour pressure of H2O as you drop the temperature?

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Innocent bystander on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 5:04pm

The only tipping point we should really worry about is the global warming cults tipping point into madness which has already been reached judging from this board. :D

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Chimp_Logic on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 5:06pm

The good old Clausius-Claperyon equation

P = A exp (- DHvap / R T)

And if you have two (T,P) conditions it looks something like this

   P1    DHvap 1    1
ln (---) = ----    (--- - ---)
   P2    R       T2 T1

so one would expect the vapour pressure to decrease as temperature decreases

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Chimp_Logic on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 5:09pm

Innocent bystander wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 5:04pm:

The only tipping point we should really worry about is the global warming cults tipping point into madness which has already been reached judging from this board. :D

you're right - its all one big scam that has hypnotised every scientific body in the world, as well as every fossil fuel corporation

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by muso on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 5:34pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 5:06pm:

Namgenot has gone to ask Anthony Watts if it's ok to use that equation. ;D

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by muso on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 5:37pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 5:09pm:

Innocent bystander wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 5:04pm:

The only tipping point we should really worry about is the global warming cults tipping point into madness which has already been reached judging from this board. :D

you're right - its all one big scam that has hypnotised every scientific body in the world, as well as every fossil fuel corporation

Are you talking to yourself?

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Chimp_Logic on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 5:53pm

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 2:15pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:38pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:26pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:54pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:47pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:30pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:08pm:

Why would I when they have nothing to do with one another to any significant level...Cambrian 7000ppm and temperature ??????

nam maggot wants to regress back to the Cambrian era ladies and gentlemen

Why isn't the water boiling?
And those yummy looking seafood dead?
Guess it's not that hot after all!!!

No just showing the absurdity of your link between global temperature and CO2.
.

I see.... so now you are claiming that CO2 is NOT a greenhouse gas

Again...you misrepresent me...and greenhouse gases for that matter...ALL OF THEM...they are beneficial and make the planet habitable.

water is essential for your well being as well, too much at the wrong time in the wrong place and you drown

whats your point?

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Deathridesahorse on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 5:58pm

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 2:15pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:38pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:26pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:54pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:47pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:30pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:08pm:

Why would I when they have nothing to do with one another to any significant level...Cambrian 7000ppm and temperature ??????

nam maggot wants to regress back to the Cambrian era ladies and gentlemen

Why isn't the water boiling?
And those yummy looking seafood dead?
Guess it's not that hot after all!!!

No just showing the absurdity of your link between global temperature and CO2.
.

I see.... so now you are claiming that CO2 is NOT a greenhouse gas

Again...you misrepresent me...and greenhouse gases for that matter...ALL OF THEM...they are beneficial and make the planet habitable.

TOXICITY SAYS WHAT????????????????????????????????

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Deathridesahorse on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 6:13pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:15am:

THE PASSING OF 450 PPM is inevitable according to atleast Dr David Mills- the canadian who studied in Australia to come up with i forget the solar thermal mirror blah blah blah of something that wen tto america because australai didn't care etc... i've written this many a time and we all know iT!(IT'S ALL ON YOUTUBE AND I SUPPOSE BEYOND ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) NOT THAT ANYONE CARES :D ;D :'( :'( )

BOTTOMLINE: THE 450 PPM CHICKENS ARE AS GOOD AS ROOSTED!

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Deathridesahorse on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 6:19pm

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 11:38am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:15am:

rates of change are dangerous: THAT'S WHAT!!

EVER HEARD OF RESOURCE BOTTLENECKS?

EVER HEARD OF PANIC??

WHAT IS WAR???

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Deathridesahorse on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 6:24pm

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:26pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:54pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:47pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:30pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:08pm:

Why would I when they have nothing to do with one another to any significant level...Cambrian 7000ppm and temperature ??????

nam maggot wants to regress back to the Cambrian era ladies and gentlemen

Why isn't the water boiling?
And those yummy looking seafood dead?
Guess it's not that hot after all!!!

NAZIS TRY AND OWN LANGUAGE!!

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Deathridesahorse on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 6:27pm

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 2:06pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:34pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:47pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:30pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:08pm:

Why would I when they have nothing to do with one another to any significant level...Cambrian 7000ppm and temperature ??????

nam maggot wants to regress back to the Cambrian era ladies and gentlemen

Why isn't the water boiling?
And those yummy looking seafood dead?
Guess it's not that hot after all!!!

Well you brought it up. What was the air temperature and the sea bed temperature?

WAIT WAIT:: WHEN DID GRASS COME ABOUT???

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by muso on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 9:42pm

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 4:46pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:46pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:15pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 2:52pm:

muso wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 1:46pm:

Rules of thumb....nice to know. So say we had zero CO2 (besides being a real bummer) what would the average world air temperature be? seeing as it's 15 degrees now?

About -18 C is what I've seen quoted.

What happens to the vapour pressure of H2O as you drop the temperature?

Bump for namgenots

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Ajax on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 4:34pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:15am:

Alarmists also told us there would be no ice in the arctic by 2013...LOL....????

But there is nothing out of the ordinary about the arctic and Greenland melting.

During the medieval warm period the glaciers on Greenland were all but gone.

That's why it was named green land.

In the 1940's it was also reported that Greenland and the arctic where melting at alarming rates.

Yet here we are today and we have ice on both.

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Old Codger on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 5:42am

How, where, and when does ice melt at <ZERO CENTIGRADE?

OC

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Chimp_Logic on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 6:38am

Mr Ajax

Are suggesting that CO2 concentration in the earths atmosphere can be increased to any level and not have any effects on the earths thermal retention rates, ice cover, climate etc?

Have you decided what proportion of the fossil fuel reserves should be burnt as quickly as possible, how much forest cover is allowed for the planet, what CO2 level is permitted?

Have you designed the future for ALL of the earths inhabitants as well as all of the other species of life?

Are you the ultimate judge of risk, for all of humanity?

All because you don't want to pay any taxes but wish to benefit from what taxes deliver

...like the internet which you are using right now, as well as the computer chip which is running your PC - all innovations of the tax payer funding model.

If it concerns you so much why not live alone on a desolate island somewhere?

I know that there are plenty of Australians who prefer to shift their citizenry and therefor their tax liability to various small island nations,

Why would they do that Mr Ajax?

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by muso on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 9:31am

Let me guess, Chimp and "Death Rides a Horse" are the same poster using socks?

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by muso on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 9:40am

Ajax, Wieslaw Maslowski works for the US Navy Polar Ice Prediction System. He might have written a paper on polar ice, but it was one of many. Just because one researcher gets it wrong doesn't imply that there was any consensus.

Perhaps if the level of Chinese aerosol pollution was less, he could have easily been right.

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Chimp_Logic on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 9:50am

muso wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 9:31am:

Let me guess, Chimp and "Death Rides a Horse" are the same poster using socks?

If that was the case, I wouldn't lie about it in public (or private)

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Chimp_Logic on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 10:03am

muso wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 9:40am:

Ajax, Wieslaw Maslowski works for the US Navy Polar Ice Prediction System. He might have written a paper on polar ice, but it was one of many. Just because one researcher gets it wrong doesn't imply that there was any consensus.

Perhaps if the level of Chinese aerosol pollution was less, he could have easily been right.

...an easy exercise or calculation can be done to account for all aerosol emissions that act as dimming agents in the earths atmosphere

In fact the sluggish warming or static temperatures measured during the 1945 to 1965 period can be attributed to the elevated presence of aerosols from global industries that had poor or NO emission treatment or filtration systems installed. During this period the atmospheric CO2 level had not reached 320 ppmv. We are looking at about 400 ppmv today

We also know that the large volcanic eruption in the late 1990s also caused a suppression of thermal retention rates.

In any case, if CO2 levels continue to rise the thermal retention rates will trend upwards triggering various known and unknown tipping points. (in fact even if the CO2 level stabilised TODAY, there is a latency in the system that will still cause warming)

Hard times ahead - especially for AUstralia which will be hit very severely depending on where people and species reside on this vast continent

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Ajax on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 11:18am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 6:38am:

Mr Ajax

Are suggesting that CO2 concentration in the earths atmosphere can be increased to any level and not have any effects on the earths thermal retention rates, ice cover, climate etc?

Have a look at our history we have had 20 times the amount of CO2 we have today and there was no runaway greenhouse effect.

Why should man's minuscule amount of CO2 emissions be so frieghtening to the IPCC, a political organisation that works for the elite moguls of this world.

Quote:

Have you decided what proportion of the fossil fuel reserves should be burnt as quickly as possible, how much forest cover is allowed for the planet, what CO2 level is permitted?

Lets burn them all, that way we will be forced to come up with other alternatives, way before we have exhausted our fossil fuels.

Quote:

Have you designed the future for ALL of the earths inhabitants as well as all of the other species of life?

Look at our history, are you going to try and stop creatures from becoming extinct......???

Its natural evolution and its been happening from day dot.

Your forgetting that at any moment the sun could heat up so much that the amount of natural CO2 that gets thrown up into our atmosphere will eclipse anything man has emitted.

Will you still try to save all the critters that cannot adjust...???

Quote:

Are you the ultimate judge of risk, for all of humanity?

No i'm not but our history tells us that today we have some of the lowest amounts of CO2 in our atmosphere and we also have some of the coolest temperatures.

There's only one way they can go in accordance with our history and that is up.

Quote:

All because you don't want to pay any taxes but wish to benefit from what taxes deliver

...like the internet which you are using right now, as well as the computer chip which is running your PC - all innovations of the tax payer funding model.

I don't mind paying taxes that go to our government, taxes that go to the United Nations and other international corporations and institutions are a waste of Australian tax payers money.

Tell me why should the UN environmental fund that was developed by that smacking PIG Maurice Strong receive 10% of the revenue of the Australian carbon tax.

Give me one good reason.........................???

Are we going to help this big bring about our downfall.

Because that's what he wants, he wants to destroy the middle class of the western world.

Quote:

If it concerns you so much why not live alone on a desolate island somewhere?

That is actually a good one for you, if you think man's miniscule amount of CO2 emissions is that damaging the same could be said to you.

Lead the way by example..................!!!!!!!!

Quote:

I know that there are plenty of Australians who prefer to shift their citizenry and therefor their tax liability to various small island nations,

Why would they do that Mr Ajax?

You tell me chimp....????

Tell me why Kerry packer once payed $400 personal tax for that year.

If we did that we would be in jail.......?????

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Ajax on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 11:20am

muso wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 9:40am:

Hey muso

When are you going to get it through your head that a consensus in science means SFA.....!!!!!!

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Chimp_Logic on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 12:23pm

Ajax wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 11:20am:

muso wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 9:40am:

Hey muso

When are you going to get it through your head that a consensus in science means SFA.....!!!!!!

and yet you place an undying faith in your religious doctrine every time you attend your church group to worship your denialism

This certainly doesn't mean SFA - doesnt it Mr Ajax?

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Deathridesahorse on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 12:17am

Ajax wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 11:20am:

muso wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 9:40am:

Hey muso

When are you going to get it through your head that a consensus in science means SFA.....!!!!!!

Ajax says whatthe ::)

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Deathridesahorse on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 12:22am

Ajx cant comprehendthat the technological world is applied science and thatconsensus is necessarily a part of businesses applying said science game sdt and matchme yaýyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy :-*

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Chimp_Logic on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 6:13am

Ajax wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 11:18am:

Lets burn them all, that way we will be forced to come up with other alternatives, way before we have exhausted our fossil fuels.

What proportion of the oxygen in the earths atmosphere would need to be consumed in order to burn all the fossil fuel reserves in the earths crust?

(HINT: think of how the naturally sequestered fossil fuels got into the earths crust in the first place)

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Deathridesahorse on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 3:27pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 6:13am:

Ajax wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 11:18am:

Lets burn them all, that way we will be forced to come up with other alternatives, way before we have exhausted our fossil fuels.

Whoah talk about firing neurons :o

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by gizmo_2655 on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 4:58pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 6:19pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 11:38am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:15am:

rates of change are dangerous: THAT'S WHAT!!

EVER HEARD OF RESOURCE BOTTLENECKS?

EVER HEARD OF PANIC??

WHAT IS WAR???

And what is the 'rate of change'???
You keep crapping on about 'rates of change'...BUT you never actually say what the 'rates' are,,,Do you Not know, or are you afraid to say so??

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Chimp_Logic on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 6:44pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 4:58pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 6:19pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 11:38am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:15am:

rates of change are dangerous: THAT'S WHAT!!

EVER HEARD OF RESOURCE BOTTLENECKS?

EVER HEARD OF PANIC??

WHAT IS WAR???

And what is the 'rate of change'???
You keep crapping on about 'rates of change'...BUT you never actually say what the 'rates' are,,,Do you Not know, or are you afraid to say so??

In order to quote some meaningful RATES OF CHANGE, one would need to refer to the peer reviewed scientific literature and use mathematics etc.,

I didn't realise that these THINGS interested crack pot Global warming denialist priests and their church congregations

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Deathridesahorse on Oct 29^th, 2013 at 12:46am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 4:58pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 6:19pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 11:38am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:15am:

rates of change are dangerous: THAT'S WHAT!!

EVER HEARD OF RESOURCE BOTTLENECKS?

EVER HEARD OF PANIC??

WHAT IS WAR???

And what is the 'rate of change'???
You keep crapping on about 'rates of change'...BUT you never actually say what the 'rates' are,,,Do you Not know, or are you afraid to say so??

You still don't get scientific method :-*

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Deathridesahorse on Oct 29^th, 2013 at 12:50am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 6:44pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 4:58pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 6:19pm:

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 11:38am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:15am:

rates of change are dangerous: THAT'S WHAT!!

EVER HEARD OF RESOURCE BOTTLENECKS?

EVER HEARD OF PANIC??

WHAT IS WAR???

And what is the 'rate of change'???
You keep crapping on about 'rates of change'...BUT you never actually say what the 'rates' are,,,Do you Not know, or are you afraid to say so??

They don't which is why they can't disprove accepted theory ;D

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by WorldSacred on Oct 29^th, 2013 at 3:12am

namnugenot wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 11:38am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 12:15am:

Post of the day!

Wish people would understand that this happens every year during the summer, and the ice comes back during the polar winter. Unless the surface temperature is more than 10 degrees during that 5 months of constant daylight, the ice, thick as buildings, will not melt to the point where you have no permafrost.

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Ajax on Oct 29^th, 2013 at 7:53am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 12:23pm:

and yet you place an undying faith in your religious doctrine every time you attend your church group to worship your denialism

This certainly doesn't mean SFA - doesnt it Mr Ajax?

Like I keep telling you chimp if it wasn't for the skeptics you would believe so many untruths......!!!!!

Its because you lot take the IPCC findings as gospel and don't question it...................??????

That's not how science works dude.....!!!!!

And you turn a blind eye when they tell what they really do stand for.........!!!

Hail Ottmar............!!!!!

Quote:

In November 2010, German economist and IPCC official Ottmar Edenhofer stated about climate policy........

"But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy. Obviously, the owners of coal and oil will not be enthusiastic about this.

One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole."

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Chimp_Logic on Oct 29^th, 2013 at 10:56am

Ajax

How and why did the molecular Oxygen level in the earths atmosphere increase to todays concentration of about 21%?

(HINTS: Molecular Oxygen concentration in the earth's atmosphere was near zero prior to organic life forming in significant regions of the planet.

Its possible to estimate the total fossil fuel reserves in the earths crust, merely by knowing the concentration of O2 in the earths atmosphere - did you know that Mr Ajax?)

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Ajax on Oct 30^th, 2013 at 9:59am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 29^th, 2013 at 10:56am:

Ajax

How and why did the molecular Oxygen level in the earths atmosphere increase to todays concentration of about 21%?

Plant life which also thrived because we had 7000ppm of Co2 in the atmosphere as well at the time......!!!!!

Plant life uses water and CO2 to form carbohydrates and oxygen.

So we need CO2 and heaps of it.......LOL

Quote:

(HINTS: Molecular Oxygen concentration in the earth's atmosphere was near zero prior to organic life forming in significant regions of the planet.

Ok where are you going with that comment.....????

Quote:

Its possible to estimate the total fossil fuel reserves in the earths crust, merely by knowing the concentration of O2 in the earths atmosphere - did you know that Mr Ajax?)

If you don't provide something to back that statement I would say its bullsh!t.

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Chimp_Logic on Oct 30^th, 2013 at 11:37am

Ajax wrote on Oct 30^th, 2013 at 9:59am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 29^th, 2013 at 10:56am:

Ajax

How and why did the molecular Oxygen level in the earths atmosphere increase to todays concentration of about 21%?

(HINTS: Molecular Oxygen concentration in the earth's atmosphere was near zero prior to organic life forming in significant regions of the planet.

Ok where are you going with that comment.....????

[quote]Its possible to estimate the total fossil fuel reserves in the earths crust, merely by knowing the concentration of O2 in the earths atmosphere - did you know that Mr Ajax?)

If you don't provide something to back that statement I would say its bullsh!t.[/quote]

You didn't tackle the questions I posed to you

Very poor effort on your behalf Mr Ajax.

when are you returning to your mother country - Germany?

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Deathridesahorse on Oct 30^th, 2013 at 12:07pm

Why is ajax allowed to quote with out referece when i'm not ? ::)

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by namnugenot on Oct 30^th, 2013 at 12:55pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 30^th, 2013 at 11:37am:

Ajax wrote on Oct 30^th, 2013 at 9:59am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 29^th, 2013 at 10:56am:

Ajax

How and why did the molecular Oxygen level in the earths atmosphere increase to todays concentration of about 21%?

(HINTS: Molecular Oxygen concentration in the earth's atmosphere was near zero prior to organic life forming in significant regions of the planet.

If you don't provide something to back that statement I would say its bullsh!t.

You didn't tackle the questions I posed to you

Very poor effort on your behalf Mr Ajax.

when are you returning to your mother country - Germany?[/quote]

That's because it is bullsh!t
300 million years ago O2 was about 30% and 250 million years ago it was about 12%.
Trend since then has been up but from the concentration of 30% to the present concentration....it's a decrease...a substantial decrease.

Title: Re: Melting tipping Point for Greenland ice-sheet.
Post by Deathridesahorse on Oct 30^th, 2013 at 1:26pm

muso wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 9:31am:

Let me guess, Chimp and "Death Rides a Horse" are the same poster using socks?

Well u would have te resources go scratch that itch wouldn'tyou buddy but we all notice you aren't expanding on the idea :D