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Message started by # on Nov 13th, 2013 at 7:35pm

Title: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by # on Nov 13th, 2013 at 7:35pm
An opinion piece from Canada. Some of the comments are as relevant to Australia as to that country.

David Suzuki shows the ROM how we’ll die: Mallick
In a new play, David Suzuki again shows us the price we’ll all pay if we don’t act now on climate change.


Raina+Wilson Photography /

David Suzuki has enraged people by speaking the truth, warning of climate change causing “vast human misery” and an “irretrievably mutilated” planet if we don't cut back on carbon emissions.
By: Heather Mallick Columnist, Published on Sun Nov 10 2013

The great David Suzuki was put on mock trial for seditious libel on a terrifying and wonderful staged show at the Royal Ontario Museum last week.

There he stood, the hero of my childhood, on a sort of gallows while his lawyers wrangled beneath over whether he was guilty of defaming and discrediting Canada in his fight over our crimes against the planet and the health and safety of our children. Suzuki read from his carbon manifesto, his J’accuse.

The play, The Trial of David Suzuki, devised by Laurie Brown, had a great legal cast: Ontario Superior Court Justice Todd Ducharme, fine defenders and prosecutors, economist Michael Hlinka on the effect Suzuki’s plans would have on Canada — we’d be beggars — and Ontario Environmental Commissioner Gord Miller on our grandchildren’s future (bleak to non-existent).

I was sitting on the jury with lawyers, planners, Oakville Mayor Rob Burton and four high school students who were kind enough not to openly hate the jury’s older, more polluting generation.

Former Toronto Mayor David Miller opened the event and the effect on me was electric, for obvious reasons of nostalgia caked with a Mayor Ford-related ache that made my teeth sing with pain. I gave Miller my business card — call anytime, I said warmly — and sort of hung around seeing if he had enough chicken pot pie or smoked mussels on a toothpick ... or plans to run again. He did not.

Suzuki has enraged people by speaking the truth, citing the 1992 World Scientists’ Warning to Humanity, which warned of climate change causing “vast human misery” and an “irretrievably mutilated” planet if we didn’t cut back on carbon emissions. The scientists came from 71 countries and included more than half of all Nobel prizewinners.

Ah, 1992, so distant, so tasteless! We were making Billy Ray Cyrus’s Achy Breaky Heart a huge hit while we blew the planet’s riches.

The climate, the economy and humans are facing a brick wall. If we burned all the fossil fuels we have in reserve, humanity would expire. Even a 2°C rise in temperature will mean terrible disturbance, defence witness Gord Miller told the court. “We’re at 0.85°C now and look at the disruption. At our present rates, we’ll reach it in 20-25 years.”

At this point my mind wandered into math. I was worried to discover that my death might postdate this. My dreamed-of grandchildren would be starting university, probably in haz-mat suits. Only my early suicide would give them enough cash to protect them from the worst the planet and its billions of hot desperate humans would dish out. Note to self: Get Seconal.

But of course this selfish thinking is part of the problem. Who cares? We don’t. We care about personal, and to a certain extent, national comfort. We in the north will not be taking in billions of refugees from the hottest nations we doomed with our squandering of fossil fuels.

And the earth is indifferent to us. Unlike people who protest against wind farms, even those out in the distant expanse of Lake Ontario, the earth does not care about appearance. It simply reacts to our abuse. Its reaction will kill us — crop failure, flooding, drought, devastating storms, melted land, dead wildlife — but it meant nothing personal.

Suzuki says the tarsands projects must cease, our carbon sinks — the acidifying oceans and Canada’s boreal forest — must be protected, 70 per cent of our energy must be renewable within one generation, climate scientists must not be muzzled by governments and corporations and a carbon tax of $150 per tonne must start immediately.

Hlinka described the economic effect of Canada ending its toxic relationship with oil and gas — a massive hammer blow — and pointed out that we only produce 2 per cent of the world’s CO² emissions. So why bother? Why lead by example?

He’s right. Inertia is so attractive. But once again, we are driving into that brick wall personally, not just us but our children whom we love more than ourselves.

The final vote from the jury, audience and online? We found Suzuki not guilty of seditious libel by a vote of 1,614 to 117. We headed home by subway and bus, looking grim.

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by lee on Nov 13th, 2013 at 11:01pm
And yet he knows nothing of the hiatus.

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by Innocent bystander on Nov 14th, 2013 at 8:55pm
David Suzuki has global warming fever, a debilitating 20th century disease that inflicts total scientific paralysis on its poor unfortunate victims.
Suzuki is certainly not alone in dealing with this condition, I guess it could be regarded as mass hysteria considering the amount of  people that are inflicted.
The Kooky global warming faith has managed to take humanity back 500 years to a time when witches were burnt at the stake.
The biggest piece of the puzzle that is missing when it comes to "climate change" is real science, this has been replaced with human emotion, a completely hopeless yardstick compared to real data.

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by muso on Nov 16th, 2013 at 8:06pm

Innocent bystander wrote on Nov 14th, 2013 at 8:55pm:
David Suzuki has global warming fever, a debilitating 20th century disease that inflicts total scientific paralysis on its poor unfortunate victims.
Suzuki is certainly not alone in dealing with this condition, I guess it could be regarded as mass hysteria considering the amount of  people that are inflicted.
The Kooky global warming faith has managed to take humanity back 500 years to a time when witches were burnt at the stake.
The biggest piece of the puzzle that is missing when it comes to "climate change" is real science, this has been replaced with human emotion, a completely hopeless yardstick compared to real data.


Said with a touching refusal to acknowledge even the most basic of High School physics. Lord Monckton (pbuh) would be proud of you. You are a true disciple of the Church of Denialism.

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by # on Nov 17th, 2013 at 9:45am

lee wrote on Nov 13th, 2013 at 11:01pm:
And yet he knows nothing of the hiatus.
What is your understanding of the "hiatus"? What significance do you attribute to it?

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by Deathridesahorse on Nov 18th, 2013 at 2:36am
It's phase change: the northern hemisphere is colder than the south due to landmass- losing northern ice is not good at any time but during an alleged period of "hiatus" means the fish may just be rotting before our eyes and we sit here with our d$%&s in our hands reexplaing integrals and rates of change to private school boys!  ::)

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by muso on Nov 18th, 2013 at 3:56am
ahem  :o

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by Deathridesahorse on Nov 19th, 2013 at 3:57am

muso wrote on Nov 18th, 2013 at 3:56am:
ahem  :o

Ice is melting hiatus or not! The question becomes by which indicator are we judging this puppy from! A dismal science by any other name would still smell like a rotting fish wouldn'st thou?  ;D

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by Chimp_Logic on Nov 19th, 2013 at 9:00am

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 18th, 2013 at 2:36am:
It's phase change: the northern hemisphere is colder than the south due to landmass- losing northern ice is not good at any time but during an alleged period of "hiatus" means the fish may just be rotting before our eyes and we sit here with our d$%&s in our hands reexplaing integrals and rates of change to private school boys!  ::)


you just got out of bed did you?

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by Doctor Jolly on Nov 19th, 2013 at 9:32am
The denialism mantra:

"No one is smarter than me".

Even if I dont have an education.

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by lee on Nov 20th, 2013 at 12:16pm
The 'hiatus' could be important or may not. It is only 17 years so we apparently must wait another 13 for it to be significant. Although Hansen was certain of AGW after 8.

AGW/Climate Change rides on the back of increasing CO2 emissions giving rise to temperature increase. We have increasing CO2 emissions but an unfortunate 'hiatus' that the IPCC admits the models aren't picking.

Does that  mean the models are wrong? Quite possibly, the models have apparently correctly hindcast; but the projections are not lining up with the raw data.

Climate Change is constant- either warming or cooling. Man will have some impact on it; but probably not to the extent claimed.

I'm 97% certain of that.

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by muso on Nov 20th, 2013 at 12:28pm
It's called looking for radiative forcing in all the wrong places.

Has the radiative forcing due to CO2 increased as the atmospheric concentration has increased? Yes. End of story.

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by lee on Nov 20th, 2013 at 12:52pm
Correlation not causation. What is the tipping point at which CO2 has been shown to become a leading indicator of climate change?

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by muso on Nov 20th, 2013 at 1:55pm
No. Primarily causation, and correlation. Your question is totally meaningless to a climatologist because it assumes a false premise.

It's a "Have you stopped beating your wife?" type of question.

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by lee on Nov 20th, 2013 at 2:24pm
Of course it is meaningless- CO2 is a lagging indicator.

So really your answer is of course it's the CO2, the hiatus is meaningless, a mere aberration that does not need to be explained.

What is the the natural CO2 forcing? Without knowing the natural forcing how do you determine the anthropogenic forcing?

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by Doctor Jolly on Nov 20th, 2013 at 2:35pm

The 'hiatis' is only in atmospheric temperatures. There has been no hiatis in ocean temperatures.

So the planet as a whole has continue to warm in line with co2 emissions.


Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by lee on Nov 20th, 2013 at 3:06pm
Are you using all the results back to 1950 which are few and far between in the early years or just the Argo buoys from about 2000?

How big are the error bars for the early years because of the paucity of data? The Argo array was only completed in 2007.

A study published in International Journal of Geosciences in 2011, by Knox and Douglass, titled  "Recent Energy Balance of Earth"

Quote

"ABSTRACT
A recently published estimate of Earth’s global warming trend is 0.63 ± 0.28 W/m2, as calculated from ocean heat content anomaly data spanning 1993-2008. This value is not representative of the recent (2003-2008) warming/cooling rate because of a “flattening” that occurred around 2001-2002. Using only 2003-2008 data from Argo floats, we find by four different algorithms that the recent trend ranges from –0.010 to –0.161 W/m2 with a typical error bar of ±0.2 W/m2. These results fail to support the existence of a frequently-cited large positive computed radiative imbalance."

Trenberth's heat is still missing.

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by lee on Nov 20th, 2013 at 3:11pm
BTW, did you notice "frequently-cited large positive computed radiative imbalance."?

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by muso on Nov 20th, 2013 at 5:50pm
Lee - we've already addressed this on another thread. You might have to search for it.

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by muso on Nov 20th, 2013 at 5:54pm

lee wrote on Nov 20th, 2013 at 2:24pm:
Of course it is meaningless- CO2 is a lagging indicator.


It's an equilibrium. CO2 varies diurnally and seasonally. It's a nonsense to talk about lagging and leading over the preindustrial period.

Let me clarify - you are talking about the pre-industrial period are you not?

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by lee on Nov 20th, 2013 at 5:54pm
I was merely responding to Doctor Jolly and his no hiatus scenario for ocean warming.

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by muso on Nov 20th, 2013 at 5:59pm
As I said earlier, the signal for increased radiative forcing resulting from increasing CO2 concentration, is very clear and non controversial.  It has been measured from satellite data.

I realise that you have no technical skills in this area and that you're basically cutting and pasting from sites like WUWT and Joanne Nova.

I am interrupting your "script " in an effort to make you think  for yourself.

Before you do that, why don't you do some basic reading on how the Greenhouse Effect actually works?

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by muso on Nov 20th, 2013 at 6:05pm

lee wrote on Nov 20th, 2013 at 5:54pm:
I was merely responding to Doctor Jolly and his no hiatus scenario for ocean warming.


Until you answer my question, I'll take that as meaning that you have no idea which period you are referring to, and that you are simply parroting what you have read elsewhere. You might have to phone a friend or something.

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by lee on Nov 20th, 2013 at 6:22pm
Yep, that's why I read scientific articles as listed above.

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by muso on Nov 20th, 2013 at 6:56pm
The problem is that you didn't just happen to find it. You read about it on a blog first.

You either read this article or one that parotted it. The reason I know this is that we've already been through this with another poster.

http://joannenova.com.au/2011/12/the-travesty-of-the-missing-heat-deep-ocean-or-outer-space/

The other giveaway is that the conclusion that there is missing heat doesn't actually come from that paper itself.

So about that that little furphy that you actually read scientific papers like that one? C'mon - you don't have the technical knowledge to understand that paper. 

Embarrassed yet?


lee wrote on Nov 20th, 2013 at 6:22pm:
Yep, that's why I read scientific articles as listed above.


tut tut

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by lee on Nov 20th, 2013 at 7:50pm
The missing heat is Trenberth's claim- not mine. It was in a comment below the attrib- making it mine alone.

You really need to lighten up. I've previously said I use WUWT and then go to the article. I see no shame in it. How do you get your updates on climate happenings?

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by muso on Nov 20th, 2013 at 8:13pm

lee wrote on Nov 20th, 2013 at 7:50pm:
The missing heat is Trenberth's claim- not mine. It was in a comment below the attrib- making it mine alone.

You really need to lighten up. I've previously said I use WUWT and then go to the article. I see no shame in it. How do you get your updates on climate happenings?



It wasn't  Kevin Trenberth's claim.

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by muso on Nov 20th, 2013 at 8:19pm

lee wrote on Nov 20th, 2013 at 7:50pm:
How do you get your updates on climate happenings?


I subscribe to Scientific Journals.

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by lee on Nov 20th, 2013 at 9:38pm
'The main energy reservoir is the ocean, which sequesters energy as heat.' - Part of opening paragraph, Science 16 April 2010
'Tracking Earth's Energy     Kevin E. Trenberth and  John T. Fasullo'
sciencemag .org / content/328/5976/316.summary

'This gives rise to the concept of “missing energy” (Trenberth and Fasullo 2010).  ' - Energy and Climate - Dr Kevin E Trenberth
at rmets .org /weather-and-climate/climate/energy-and-climate-dr-kevin-e-trenberth

Pretty much says it all.

As a pensioner I can't afford scientific journals. And the Library has about 100 books.

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by # on Nov 21st, 2013 at 1:15pm

lee wrote on Nov 20th, 2013 at 9:38pm:
...
As a pensioner I can't afford scientific journals. And the Library has about 100 books.
As an amateur, you evidently don't understand what you read. That's the problem with research in ignorance. The results of our "research" invariably support our beliefs.

It's only human. Much of science is devoted to mitigating that human failing. That's why we have peer review.

That's why the denyosphere had to construct its own system of reviews. Their studies never made the grade in the established system. What they do is not science; it's confirmation of beliefs.

Title: Re: The Trial of David Suzuki
Post by Deathridesahorse on Nov 21st, 2013 at 2:10pm

lee wrote on Nov 20th, 2013 at 9:38pm:
'The main energy reservoir is the ocean, which sequesters energy as heat.' - Part of opening paragraph, Science 16 April 2010
'Tracking Earth's Energy     Kevin E. Trenberth and  John T. Fasullo'
sciencemag .org / content/328/5976/316.summary

'This gives rise to the concept of “missing energy” (Trenberth and Fasullo 2010).  ' - Energy and Climate - Dr Kevin E Trenberth
at rmets .org /weather-and-climate/climate/energy-and-climate-dr-kevin-e-trenberth

Pretty much says it all.

As a pensioner I can't afford scientific journals. And the Library has about 100 books.

Ya want sympathy for mass slaughter? You die,... You go away and die now  :o

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