Let me say first of all that I wish I could be religious. It must be great to have some belief that allows you not to have to face the universe alone.
But for me one of the crunchers is the cruelty of nature.
If there is a God, why does HE find it necessary to subject HIS creatures to cruel suffering deaths. I exclude homo sapiens from this because, with the exception of accident & illness, he has the intellect to avoid cruelty.
But when I see eg. a new born antelope crouching in the grass while the mother tries to distract a predator, I wonder why the system is designed so that beasts rip each other apart.
Why couldn't a Supreme Designer arrange things so that one species fed off only the dead of another?
What's the need for the savagery?
Does the Supreme Designer actually hate HIS creations?

(NB masculine gender used to be provocative . .lol)

You can be religious without believing in an interventionist God.

I don't know what that means.

The cruelity of nature is my main reasons for rejecting the idea of a creator God. 

My second reason for rejection is that the creator God created Hell for ordinary people who's only crime was to not believe in the Bibles teachings and accept Jesus Christ (as taught in the Bible) as their Lord and Saviour!

Those two reasons alone are enough to make me believe that God is a human creation.

Nature is a sad reality of survival.  IF theRE was a loving creator nature would be very different. 

When I have discussed this idea with Christians they tell me that it's all due to the fall of man.  So basically they teach that because humanity did not obey God, everything in nature turned against each other, due to Gods system of 'freewill'.  Well frankly that's a God that scares the crap out of me and not one I would wish to spend eternity with worshiping!!! 

But of course it's not just Christianity which posits a Supreme Being. Most religions do.

While I find my self unable to accept these notions, at the same time and unlike a lot of religion-haters (socialists & etc), I do admire a lot of the good works that religious organisations do and have done. (Wait for it - someone will chime in with "like protecting paedophiles. Well, d**heads, there are rotten apples in every barrel)
One has only to look at the Salvos and envy the belief that drives them to perform such good works..
Similarly, I greatly admire the way the Roman church preserved a lot of the old wisdom & writings through the monastic system during the dark ages following the collapse of Rome.

Excellent thread guys.

No wonder I so like the freedom of speech ideal.

Having had an out of body experience, I figured that religion is one big waste of time. Perhaps save for the social aspect. When you die, no matter what you have done, you are going to experience a type of bliss (free from the restraints of the human body). Spending time hoping that the man in the sky will forgive you for kissing Janie-Jane behind the shower block in year 7, is a waste of time.

bogarde73 wrote on Nov 28^th, 2013 at 10:22am:

Let me say first of all that I wish I could be religious. It must be great to have some belief that allows you not to have to face the universe alone. But for me one of the crunchers is the cruelty of nature. If there is a God, why does HE find it necessary to subject HIS creatures to cruel suffering deaths. I exclude homo sapiens from this because, with the exception of accident & illness, he has the intellect to avoid cruelty. But when I see eg. a new born antelope crouching in the grass while the mother tries to distract a predator, I wonder why the system is designed so that beasts rip each other apart. Why couldn't a Supreme Designer arrange things so that one species fed off only the dead of another? What's the need for the savagery? Does the Supreme Designer actually hate HIS creations? (NB masculine gender used to be provocative . .lol)

THIRD FISHERMAN: Master, I marvel how the fishes live in the sea.
FIRST FISHERMAN: Why, as men do a-land: the great ones eat up the little ones.
William Shakespeare - Pericles act 2, sc. 1



I do not believe that my creator is callous, or 'hates' us.



Hi bogarde73,

Yes nature seems is cruel.
The competitive nature, of err, nature [and of our own circumstance], forces us to make choices [that we may not otherwise be motivated to make!].

bogarde73, when you die, all of the 'problems' which weigh upon your consciousness today, will be at an end.
Many are of the opinion, that the oblivion of death, will bring a sense of peace to them.
That is not an invitation to take your own life.
Just a reminder that own perceptions are all relative [to what we think we understand about the reality that we experience].


bogarde73,
We ourselves, do not need to be cruel to other creatures.
We can choose, to, not to be cruel to other creatures.

Is God a cruel being, to force us to be challenged and suffer ?



Proverbs 12:10
A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.




Quote:

An extract from the "Lucifer Principle" by Howard BLOOM ........Unfortunately, these authors held a distorted view of pre-industrial reality. A pride of lions at their ease enjoys the kind of nature the radical environmentalists dreamed about. You can see the smiles on lions' faces as they lick their paws and stretch out on the ground side by side, clearly pleased with the comfort of each other's warmth. You can see the benevolence with which a mother keeps a cub from playfully tearing her tail apart. She lifts her huge paw and gently shoves the infant aside when his nipping becomes too painful. But nature has given these lion mothers only one way of feeding their children: the hunt. This afternoon, these peaceful creatures will tear a gazelle limb from limb. The panicked beast will try frantically to avoid the felines closing in on her, but they will break her neck and drag her across the plain still alive and kicking. Her eyes will be open and aware as her flesh is gashed and torn. Suppose for a minute that lions were suddenly stricken with guilt about their feeding habits and swore off meat. What would they accomplish? They would starve themselves and their children. For they have been given only one option: to kill. Killing is an invention not of man but of nature. Nature's amusements are cruel. A female sea turtle crawls painfully up the beach of a tropical island, dragging her bulk across the sand. Slowly she digs a nest with her hind flippers and lays her eggs. From those eggs come a thousand tiny, irresistible babies, digging out of the sand, blinking at the light for the first time, rapidly gaining their orientation from a genetically preprogrammed internal compass, then taking their first walk, a race toward the sea. As the infants scoot awkwardly across the beach, propelling themselves with flippers built for an entirely different task, sea birds who have been waiting for this feast swoop down to enjoy meal after high-protein meal. Of a thousand hatchlings, perhaps three will make it to the safety of the ocean waves. The birds are not sadistic creatures whose instincts have been twisted by an overdose of television. They're merely engaged in the same effort as the baby turtles the effort to survive. Hegel, the nineteenth century German philosopher, said that true tragedy occurs not when good battles evil, but when one good battles another. Nature has made that form of tragedy a basic law of her universe. She presents her children with a choice between death and death. She offers a carnivore the options of dying by starvation or killing for a meal.....

http://www.oocities.org/mickay_au/lucifer.htm





+++





Daniel 12:10
Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.


Isaiah 48:10
Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.


Revelation 21:7
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8  But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

bogarde73 wrote on Nov 28^th, 2013 at 10:37am:

I don't know what that means.

A non-interventionist God is one which doesn't interfere or intercede in any way. Prayers have no effect, and it's pointless to worship.

UnSubRocky wrote on Dec 5^th, 2013 at 2:50am:

Having had an out of body experience, I figured that religion is one big waste of time. Perhaps save for the social aspect. When you die, no matter what you have done, you are going to experience a type of bliss (free from the restraints of the human body). Spending time hoping that the man in the sky will forgive you for kissing Janie-Jane behind the shower block in year 7, is a waste of time.

Was yours at the Criterion too?

muso wrote on Dec 5^th, 2013 at 11:01am:

UnSubRocky wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 2:50am: Having had an out of body experience, I figured that religion is one big waste of time. Perhaps save for the social aspect. When you die, no matter what you have done, you are going to experience a type of bliss (free from the restraints of the human body). Spending time hoping that the man in the sky will forgive you for kissing Janie-Jane behind the shower block in year 7, is a waste of time. Was yours at the Criterion too?

It might as well have been. The reason why I nearly died was because of a mix of medication and alcohol.

I was raised in the church, but haven't gone to church in years.

I'm gay so it makes my choice easier - being threatened with heaven/hell didn't endear me to the religion.

I don't need a reason to be religious - my life is better off/happier without it.

I'm a good person/live a good life and don't need a book to tell me what I can/cannot do.

bogarde73 wrote on Nov 28^th, 2013 at 10:22am:

Reasons for not being religious

There aren't any....

I may be being a bit pendantic here.

imho, noone is supposed to be 'religious'
we are encouraged to be spritual.

There is no need to go to church every sunday.
There is a benefit in "doing unto others as you would have done unto yourself"
That does not just happen every sunday morning.

Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Dec 25^th, 2013 at 11:14pm:

I was raised in the church, but haven't gone to church in years. I'm gay so it makes my choice easier - being threatened with heaven/hell didn't endear me to the religion.

But, but, but,  .....heaven and hell don't exist!

[i.e. if you believed that they DID exist, your behaviour would prolly be different.
Correct ?  ]








Quote:

I don't need a reason to be religious - my life is better off/happier without it.

A lot of people feel that way.iQuote:

I'm a good person/live a good life and don't need a book to tell me what I can/cannot do.

A lot of people feel that way.




Men [and women] today....exalting themselves [displacing God, in God's temple]....as they are sitting the temple of God.

2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.



1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?i
Me, i have been promised a 'new' temple, when this temple turns to dust.

John 14:2
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


Lamentations 3:33
For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.
34  To crush under his feet all the prisoners of the earth,


Psalms 69:32
The humble shall see this, and be glad: and your heart shall live that seek God.
33  For the LORD heareth the poor, and despiseth not his prisoners.


Psalms 119:19
I am a stranger in the earth: hide not thy commandments from me.
...
54  Thy statutes have been my songs in the house of my pilgrimage.

None of us have to be religious, true, but we are all spiritual. It goes with the territory of being homo sapiens.
You cannot escape those innermost thoughts about why and what which occur to EVERYBODY at various times.
None of us, not one person on earth past or present, has been a completely good person. Every single person, at some time, perhaps often perhaps seldom, harbours thoughts of anger, envy, revenge, lust (especially lust) and all the other deadly or not so deadly sins.
Living with those thoughts, resisting the really bad ones, coming to terms with and accepting some of them, without plunging into a mire of guilt or despair, is the spiritual life of everyone.
It would be so nice - and I am not in any way criticising any particular faith here - to have someone absolve one of the burden of living with those thoughts. If you like, of accepting imperfection and being freed from responsibility.

But I do not see that as a solution I could believe in.
This would for me be another reason for not being religious.

Feelings of despair come from a lack of hope.
We often have no hope in our lives, because life is grim, and we often make poor choices.
So we believe that there is no hope - for ourselves.


God has the capacity to forgive and to heal anyone.
He has promised to heal and to redeem those who acknowledge their poor choices, and are sorry for them.

The impenitent heart will suffer the fire, here, and in the here-after.


Isaiah 57:15
For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.


Psalms 119:1
ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
2  Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.i+++


This life is [in effect] a [spiritual] furnace, a [spiritual] fire, which burns up the worthless, leaving the precious untouched, not consumed.


Daniel 12:10
Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.


Isaiah 48:10
Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.


Revelation 21:7
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8  But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.i


Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15  For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

bogarde73 wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 1:18pm:

None of us have to be religious, true, but we are all spiritual. It goes with the territory of being homo sapiens. You cannot escape those innermost thoughts about why and what which occur to EVERYBODY at various times. None of us, not one person on earth past or present, has been a completely good person. Every single person, at some time, perhaps often perhaps seldom, harbours thoughts of anger, envy, revenge, lust (especially lust) and all the other deadly or not so deadly sins. Living with those thoughts, resisting the really bad ones, coming to terms with and accepting some of them, without plunging into a mire of guilt or despair, is the spiritual life of everyone. It would be so nice - and I am not in any way criticising any particular faith here - to have someone absolve one of the burden of living with those thoughts. If you like, of accepting imperfection and being freed from responsibility. But I do not see that as a solution I could believe in. This would for me be another reason for not being religious.

good posting.

bogarde73 wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 1:18pm:

None of us have to be religious, true, but we are all spiritual. It goes with the territory of being homo sapiens. You cannot escape those innermost thoughts about why and what which occur to EVERYBODY at various times. None of us, not one person on earth past or present, has been a completely good person. Every single person, at some time, perhaps often perhaps seldom, harbours thoughts of anger, envy, revenge, lust (especially lust) and all the other deadly or not so deadly sins. Living with those thoughts, resisting the really bad ones, coming to terms with and accepting some of them, without plunging into a mire of guilt or despair, is the spiritual life of everyone. It would be so nice - and I am not in any way criticising any particular faith here - to have someone absolve one of the burden of living with those thoughts. If you like, of accepting imperfection and being freed from responsibility. But I do not see that as a solution I could believe in. This would for me be another reason for not being religious.

The only part I have a slight quibble with is anger. Anger at injustice for example, can be constructive. We should be angry at some things. It's how we channel that anger that is important. 

I'd also add actions and inactions to that list.

Since organised religion is merely a way to control the masses, my reason for not being religious is that I do not wish to be controlled, especially with fairy tales.

John Smith wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 9:11pm:

Since organised religion is merely a way to control the masses, my reason for not being religious is that I do not wish to be controlled, especially with fairy tales.

OK,  that's your reason for not being religious with respect to organised religion.

What about  non organised religion with no Brothers Grimm type content?

muso wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 9:28pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2013 at 9:11pm: Since organised religion is merely a way to control the masses, my reason for not being religious is that I do not wish to be controlled, especially with fairy tales. OK,  that's your reason for not being religious with respect to organised religion. What about  non organised religion with no Brothers Grimm type content?

don't believe in religion in any form ...  As I see it, religion serves three purposes,

1- control the masses,
2 - make money or
3 - give you a sense of hope

with 1 and 2 often using 3 for their advantage.

I don't want to control anyone, I'm not greedy and I'm not desperate enough to want a sense of false hope in my life, I'd rather deal with reality

John Smith wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 9:50pm:

muso wrote on Dec 30th, 2013 at 9:28pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2013 at 9:11pm: Since organised religion is merely a way to control the masses, my reason for not being religious is that I do not wish to be controlled, especially with fairy tales. OK,  that's your reason for not being religious with respect to organised religion. What about  non organised religion with no Brothers Grimm type content? don't believe in religion in any form ...  As I see it, religion serves three purposes, 1- control the masses, 2 - make money or 3 - give you a sense of hope with 1 and 2 often using 3 for their advantage. I don't want to control anyone, I'm not greedy and I'm not desperate enough to want a sense of false hope in my life, I'd rather deal with reality

If that is true, then you would have to be an oddity, imo.







John_Smith,

You make it sound as though we all deal with the world [and its reality], always truthfully.

But we don't, not always, not even frequently, i would suggest.

We tend to interface with others, and to deal with the realities that confront us, using expediencies.

We mostly do, whatever is most convenient, and what is most to our own advantage.
[I know that i do!]

That is just in our nature, and it is what we have all been taught, at our mothers knee.






Dictionary;
expedient = =
1 convenient and practical although possibly improper or immoral.
2 suitable or appropriate.i



Quote:

i don't believe in religion in any form ...  As I see it, religion serves three purposes, 1- control the masses, 2 - make money or 3 - give you a sense of hope

Nobody can control us, unless we give them that power.

Most of us, give our power away, to those who control us.

And there is another 'expediency' there too!

Only a fearful slave, would willingly give up his/her power/sovereignty to another.



It takes courage to do what we know is right, and to confront what we know is true.








Revelation 21:7
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8  But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Yadda wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 11:07pm:

You make it sound as though we all deal with the world [and its reality], always truthfully. But we don't, not always, not even frequently, i would suggest. We tend to interface with others, and to deal with the realities that confront us, using expediencies. We mostly do, whatever is most convenient, and what is most to our own advantage. [I know that i do!] That is just in our nature, and it is what we have all been taught, at our mothers knee.

You almost managed a post without a biblical quote :)

Actually, the world, and everything we see is based on our perception. (I'm partially agreeing with you here Yadda)

We can't sense the world directly - only via the filter of our minds. (and here I get technical) There is a sensory bottleneck in our brains. We can only deal with so much sensory data at a time. 95% of the time, we run on autopilot. We live on past experiences.  What this means is that what we see most of the time is what we expect to see.

It's a bit like learning to drive. THe first time, we're trying to concentrate on too many things at once. After a while, these things become second nature - they are stored in our subconscious. At that stage, we only concentrate on what is necessary.

The entire world is 95% mental picture, and maybe 5% perceived reality.

There have been MRI studies that back that up.

Yadda wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 11:07pm:

John_Smith,You make it sound as though we all deal with the world [and its reality], always truthfully.

because overall, I think we do ... although my truth and your truth can be miles apart

muso,

Just like every other human 'bean' here, i have no idea what reality really is, and i have no idea, about what is true.

The only thing that i am certain about [exposing a little of my vanity there!   :)  ] is that reality [and truth] are not what we imagine them to be.

We do not know, not even nearly       [in my experience]!

But it is a wondrous journey!

Sometimes challenging, sometimes 'confronting', but always a wondrous journey!i
Read the Bible.

Meditate.

If it was possible to rename this thread I would have called it "Reasons for not believing in a Supreme Being".
The word "religious" has various meanings and it doesn't really convey what I was trying to get at.

Astrologically when we stuy the birth chart or the horoscope of an individual it is seen that the native will not be religious if Rahu or northern Node is aspect or positioned in the 9th house.

Amazing how planets influence us, we dont seem to believe our creator.

neetzkhanna wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 8:34pm:

Astrologically when we stuy the birth chart or the horoscope of an individual it is seen that the native will not be religious if Rahu or northern Node is aspect or positioned in the 9th house. Amazing how planets influence us, we dont seem to believe our creator.

can you please not post in Chinese, keep your comments to English.

John Smith wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 9:11pm:

Since organised religion is merely a way to control the masses

That is the stupidest, most reflexively unthinkingly load of stupendous BS of the last 5 minutes.

Take a bow.

John Smith wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 9:50pm:

muso wrote on Dec 30th, 2013 at 9:28pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2013 at 9:11pm: Since organised religion is merely a way to control the masses, my reason for not being religious is that I do not wish to be controlled, especially with fairy tales. OK,  that's your reason for not being religious with respect to organised religion. What about  non organised religion with no Brothers Grimm type content? don't believe in religion in any form ...  As I see it, religion serves three purposes, 1- control the masses, 2 - make money or 3 - give you a sense of hope with 1 and 2 often using 3 for their advantage. I don't want to control anyone, I'm not greedy and I'm not desperate enough to want a sense of false hope in my life, I'd rather deal with reality

Eye-wateringly stupid - with due respect (very little respect is due to such a mindless load of BS).

If you bothered to actually look around you, you would see that religion, whether in Europe, Asia or America, has been the engine room of civilising development - and of social reform, which goes directly against your stupid and lazy 'religion is control of the masses' nonsense.

Next time, think first. For a minute or two.

Reform has happened in spite of religion and much more slowly than it would have without it.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 10^th, 2014 at 6:18am:

Reform has happened in spite of religion and much more slowly than it would have without it. SOB

Not really. Many reformers have been Christian. The cessation of the slave trade was spear-headed by Christians.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 10^th, 2014 at 10:49am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 6:18am: Reform has happened in spite of religion and much more slowly than it would have without it. SOB Not really. Many reformers have been Christian. The cessation of the slave trade was spear-headed by Christians.

Everyone was xtian in those days though - @ least they said they were or got lynched. . . .

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 10^th, 2014 at 10:56am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 10:49am: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 6:18am: Reform has happened in spite of religion and much more slowly than it would have without it. SOB Not really. Many reformers have been Christian. The cessation of the slave trade was spear-headed by Christians. Everyone was xtian in those days though - @ least they said they were or got lynched. . . . SOB

Not true. Atheism and Deism have a history dating back before the early 19th century. Agnosticism maybe more recent, but the concept of such a position goes back far earlier than the 1800's. Not everyone back then declared themselves to be Christians.

Soren wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 9:20pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2013 at 9:11pm: Since organised religion is merely a way to control the masses That is the stupidest, most reflexively unthinkingly load of stupendous BS of the last 5 minutes. Take a bow.

why? was your post 6 minutes earlier?

Soren wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 9:26pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2013 at 9:50pm: muso wrote on Dec 30th, 2013 at 9:28pm: John Smith wrote on Dec 30th, 2013 at 9:11pm: Since organised religion is merely a way to control the masses, my reason for not being religious is that I do not wish to be controlled, especially with fairy tales. OK,  that's your reason for not being religious with respect to organised religion. What about  non organised religion with no Brothers Grimm type content? don't believe in religion in any form ...  As I see it, religion serves three purposes, 1- control the masses, 2 - make money or 3 - give you a sense of hope with 1 and 2 often using 3 for their advantage. I don't want to control anyone, I'm not greedy and I'm not desperate enough to want a sense of false hope in my life, I'd rather deal with reality Eye-wateringly stupid - with due respect (very little respect is due to such a mindless load of BS). If you bothered to actually look around you, you would see that religion, whether in Europe, Asia or America, has been the engine room of civilising development - and of social reform, which goes directly against your stupid and lazy 'religion is control of the masses' nonsense. Next time, think first. For a minute or two.

they were able to develop civilisation and develop socially BECAUSE they could control the masses ...

you don't have to agree with my views, thats why they are my views.

By the way, I suggest you go and see an optometrist if you have problems with your eyes. :D :D

Raven can't get behind any religion that advocates child murder and genital mutilation.

Raven wrote on Sep 10^th, 2014 at 5:50pm:

Raven can't get behind any religion that advocates child murder and genital mutilation.

And jihads, crusades, inquisitions, and raping children. Now we got Islam + Catholicism out of the way.  ;)

The whole idea of spirituality, is to work on the spirit being that lives inside of yourself.
You can evolve spiritually, in a negative or positive sense.
Spirituality has nothing to do with a mighty God in the sky that dictates what you can and cannot do. Do wrong by the God and you will be punished -- that is religion, and therefore, a form of control.
Spirituality is misinterpreted as something completely opposite to what it's actually about and because of this a lot of people reject the whole lot!
Devoted Christians will reject any other form of spirituality, other than the one they believe in, because they think they will go to hell, and it is true of most religions.
Spiritual sects were wiped out by the Roman Catholic church because these sects wanted to be spiritual, but free of the bonds of the church and this was seen as heresy. As a result much of history has been wiped out, which is abominable.

I can hardly think of a reason TO be religious.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 8:57pm:

I can hardly think of a reason TO be religious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RT6rL2UroE

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 8:57pm:

I can hardly think of a reason TO be religious.

Me either, but I think I could benefit from being spiritual.

Freedumb wrote on Sep 11^th, 2014 at 9:43pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 11th, 2014 at 8:57pm: I can hardly think of a reason TO be religious. Me either, but I think I could benefit from being spiritual.

You already are.

The very moment that religion became "organised" it's link to spirituality became at best tenuous, at worst, non existent.

Organised religion, particularly in relatively recent history, is nothing more than a tool to exert power and control. Ironically, it is not the religious basis that is necessarily wrong either, however, it is the interpretations of said religion and the actions taken by people and then justified as being in the name of their brand that has done this.

Further, the reformation periods have been both driven by people representing religions and (here is the kicker...) resisted by members of the very same religious groups.

Slavery is an excellent example of this. Whilst reformation was certainly participated in by members of Christian groups and a range of "god fearing" people, slavery was simultaneously conducted by, supported by and profited by from members of Christian groups and a range of "god fearing" people. As such, it cannot be said that organised religion was in anyway fully responsible for reformation at least not without highlighting that it was simultaneously responsible for the very issues that required reforming...

In my opinion, organised religion is not actually in our species long term best interests. Just look at the bloody history also attached to organised religion, particularly when opposing religious views run into each other.

It may well be a case of "and then man made God in the image that most suited man's ego and ensured maximum leverage for a minority to exercise power over the masses...."

still, there has to be some organistion to have a church open every week.

'organised' religions are not just all bad.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 11:19am:

still, there has to be some organistion to have a church open every week. 'organised' religions are not just all bad.

Dear Sprint -

watch George Carlin:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RT6rL2UroE

Hi Bob,

I've seen it before. Its good.

I know Jesus, he's better. By quite a way.

Phemanderac wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 10:02am:

The very moment that religion became "organised" it's link to spirituality became at best tenuous, at worst, non existent. Organised religion, particularly in relatively recent history, is nothing more than a tool to exert power and control. Ironically, it is not the religious basis that is necessarily wrong either, however, it is the interpretations of said religion and the actions taken by people and then justified as being in the name of their brand that has done this. Further, the reformation periods have been both driven by people representing religions and (here is the kicker...) resisted by members of the very same religious groups. Slavery is an excellent example of this. Whilst reformation was certainly participated in by members of Christian groups and a range of "god fearing" people, slavery was simultaneously conducted by, supported by and profited by from members of Christian groups and a range of "god fearing" people. As such, it cannot be said that organised religion was in anyway fully responsible for reformation at least not without highlighting that it was simultaneously responsible for the very issues that required reforming... In my opinion, organised religion is not actually in our species long term best interests. Just look at the bloody history also attached to organised religion, particularly when opposing religious views run into each other. It may well be a case of "and then man made God in the image that most suited man's ego and ensured maximum leverage for a minority to exercise power over the masses...."

Excellent post all up, but that part really hit the spot.

Basically, religion was hijacked to serve the very thing it stands against. If you dress up something as the complete opposite of what it truly represents, and convince millions of people to believe in it, it is the perfect strategy for deceit and control.
We see our politicians and other people of power do the exact same thing in all different aspects of life.

Spirituality is really just 'Fashion',
I hope you guys realise this...
...in an age when it is the most misused word going around.

Jasin wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 10:10pm:

Spirituality is really just 'Fashion', I hope you guys realise this... ...in an age when it is the most misused word going around.

Oh don't I know it. I was just saying in another post how some politicians wear this "fashion" to give off the do-gooder appeal.

Freedumb wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 10:20pm:

Jasin wrote on Sep 12th, 2014 at 10:10pm: Spirituality is really just 'Fashion', I hope you guys realise this... ...in an age when it is the most misused word going around. Oh don't I know it. I was just saying in another post how some politicians wear this "fashion" to give off the do-gooder appeal.

Well said and done Freedumb. I shall embrace you as my 'Morgana' - come, let us explore Chi Ejaculations in a room full of dusty ancient parchments. :)

I must admit that I find the heading of this thread funny, religion is a word used wrongly often. I think you mean either a believer in a creator or?
Religious: Extremely scrupulous or conscientious, does that not also imply that washing daily and teeth brushing is also "religious"?.
BTW, satan worshippers are also "religious"

I am a Christian.  ;)

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 12^th, 2014 at 7:45pm:

Hi Bob, I've seen it before. Its good. I know Jesus, he's better. By quite a way.

Jesus is God - how can he be better?

Gryphon49 wrote on Sep 13^th, 2014 at 11:09pm:

I must admit that I find the heading of this thread funny, religion is a word used wrongly often. I think you mean either a believer in a creator or? Religious: Extremely scrupulous or conscientious, does that not also imply that washing daily and teeth brushing is also "religious"?. BTW, satan worshippers are also "religious" I am a Christian.  ;)

You might get sent to hell for using that display picture.  :D

JaSin: You have a great sense of humour!  :D