We've paid billions for all that equipment over the years and we should keep it here. It belongs to Australian tax payers now. Someone else could make use of it.

Stupid Australian government gave them money with no strings attached. Now they will take it to china which is what Ford is already planning to do :(

Sir lastnail wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 3:06pm:

We've paid billions for all that equipment over the years and we should keep it here. It belongs to Australian tax payers now. Someone else could make use of it. Stupid Australian government gave them money with no strings attached. Now they will take it to china which is what Ford is already planning to do :(

Fat chance Nail,
they'll ship it off to China or India & pay 50 cents an hour to impoverished workers.

The infrastructure and plant MUST remain here.

That should NOT be open to negotiation.

Kat wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 3:20pm:

The infrastructure and plant MUST remain here. That should NOT be open to negotiation.

but the bone head pollies didn't make the handouts conditional. In the US, Obama bailed out GMC from going bankrupt on the condition that they pay it back plus interest which they did. These dickheads here just give them the money with no conditions attached :(

Bobby. wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 3:14pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Dec 11th, 2013 at 3:06pm: We've paid billions for all that equipment over the years and we should keep it here. It belongs to Australian tax payers now. Someone else could make use of it. Stupid Australian government gave them money with no strings attached. Now they will take it to china which is what Ford is already planning to do :( Fat chance Nail, they'll ship it off to China or India & pay 50 cents an hour to impoverished workers.

I have inside information that Ford is planning this already in china :(

It is their plant and equipment, not Australia's.

Inside information........ ;D ;D ;D ;D

Rusty rusty rusty.......

Go the globalist resource wealth ripoff: i vote liberal and cheer for copper internet to hamstring australia into handing it over or the 'economy' get's it: THIS IS A STICK-UP SO WATCH IT SHEEPLES  ;)

I am from planet dodgy abbott bros.  :-?

viewpoint wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 3:34pm:

It is their plant and equipment, not Australia's. Inside information........ ;D ;D ;D ;D Rusty rusty rusty.......

it's only their equipment because pissant pollies gave them the money without any conditions on it :(

This is no one else's fault than GMH's. It is not the fault of the Governments plural who have propped up this failure for years.

The fault is with GMH which refused to move with the times and built cars THEY THOUGHT were right for people.

They did not read the signs, as to what the people wanted and how they bought from overseas in increasing numbers when the local car maker failed in their duty.

So...piss the f... off GMH! You're not wanted and people won't being importing your f....d cars from America once you desert the ship.

Australia will go on with or without GMH, yes it will hurt but the Australian spirit is legendary to overcome difficulties.

We do no stand or fall on the future of a bloody Motoring Company headquarters in the U.S.

red baron wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 4:09pm:

This is no one else's fault than GMH's. It is not the fault of the Government's plural who have propped up this failure for years. The fault is with GMH which refused to move with the times and built cars THEY THOUGHT were right for people. They did not read the signs, as to what the people wanted and how they bought from overseas in increasing numbers when the local car maker failed in their duty. So...piss the f... off GMH! You're not wanted and people won't being importing your f....d cars from America once you desert the ship.

Go the wealth concentrating two speed economy: bugger the neighbours and faux Christianity of the liberal party's leadership  :o

red baron wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 4:09pm:

This is no one else's fault than GMH's. It is not the fault of the Governments plural who have propped up this failure for years. The fault is with GMH which refused to move with the times and built cars THEY THOUGHT were right for people. They did not read the signs, as to what the people wanted and how they bought from overseas in increasing numbers when the local car maker failed in their duty. So...piss the f... off GMH! You're not wanted and people won't being importing your f....d cars from America once you desert the ship. Australia will go on with or without GMH, yes it will hurt but the Australian spirit is legendary to overcome difficulties. We do no stand or fall on the future of a bloody Motoring Company headquarters in the U.S.

I hear this a lot, but what car should they have been building instead?

Holden sell all different types of cars. Little ones, big ones, off road ones, etc. The Commodore is the best selling car they have. Should they have stopped building that and started building a type of car they sell even less of?

The problem isn't building the wrong type of car. The issue is trying to build a car in a country of 23 million that has so many different types of cars on sale that no matter what you pick (large family, 4X4, etc) there are just not enough sales in that class to make money.

You've got 21,500 in your pocket and you want to buy a medium sized car.

Would you rather have a Holden Cruze for 20.363 or a Honda Civic for 21.500?

It's like comparing a turd with a pedigree horse.

For the extra grand you can have it all with the Honda or you can buy the Cruze then get ready for all the shite that comes once they get past three years old.

No wonder Holden have gone down the chute.

Incidentally my 5 year old Honda has 150K on the clock and is going like it is brand new.

red baron wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 6:29pm:

You've got 21,500 in your pocket and you want to buy a medium sized car. Would you rather have a Holden Cruze for 20.363 or a Honda Civic for 21.500? It's like comparing a turd with a pedigree horse. For the extra grand you can have it all with the Honda or you can buy the Cruze then get ready for all the shite that comes once they get past three years old. No wonder Holden have gone down the chute. Incidentally my 5 year old Honda has 150K on the clock and is going like it is brand new.

Yes a Honda is a reliable car. Not as good as a Toyota in the never stops catagory, but certainly a well built car that will last a long time. Problem is that this is not the 90's, and almost any car on the market these days (incuding the cruze) besides the super budget cars (china) will do 150,000 no problem. Yes 20 years ago if a commodore made it to 50,000 without a serious issue you got lucky, but those days are long gone. GM technology based cars have come a long way in the last 10 years. If the problem is that GMH didn't build cars that will last, then that complaint was dealt with in recent years. The VF is a different world from the "can't even make it up the shops without needing more engine oil" VN days.

red baron wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 6:29pm:

You've got 21,500 in your pocket and you want to buy a medium sized car. Would you rather have a Holden Cruze for 20.363 or a Honda Civic for 21.500? It's like comparing a turd with a pedigree horse. For the extra grand you can have it all with the Honda or you can buy the Cruze then get ready for all the shite that comes once they get past three years old. No wonder Holden have gone down the chute. Incidentally my 5 year old Honda has 150K on the clock and is going like it is brand new.

Honda can be a PIA as well when it comes to reliability and the cost of parts. I know someone who bought a new Honda CRV Sports SUV which developed a fault with the transmission. The dealer kept putting her off until after the warranty period expired and then she was up for a new automatic transmission at her own cost. It turns out that this is a common fault with that particular model :(

The whole auto industry is setup to make money from service and parts that's why it is no skin off Holdens nose if it no longer makes cars here.

no use in leaving the equipment here..

we'd only have greedy gutless dickhead CEO's stealing the cream and bully unions pushing up wages too high to make a profit.. (get in for your chop)

we'd end up with the same old same old with the government bailing out the car industry...  ::)

if the Unions and workers had half a brain they'd go to the CEOs, all put their pay packets on the table and start making cuts by % until it puts them back in the black...

Toyota workers should see the writing on the wall as well... those filthy bludgers have one of the worst sicky rate in Australia...  >:(

they will put themselves out of work as well and then blame everyone else...

then the component industry will fall over...

but with Abbott getting a free trade deal with Korea, it'll mean in time that our goods wont get hit with a 40% tariff

we sell a lot of engines and transmissions into South Korea... 

True Blue... wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 8:30pm:

no use in leaving the equipment here.. we'd only have greedy gutless dickhead CEO's stealing the cream and bully unions pushing up wages too high to make a profit.. (get in for your chop) we'd end up with the same old same old with the government bailing out the car industry...  ::) if the Unions and workers had half a brain they'd go to the CEOs, all put their pay packets on the table and start making cuts by % until it puts them back in the black... Toyota workers should see the writing on the wall as well... those filthy bludgers have one of the worst sicky rate in Australia...  >:( they will put themselves out of work as well and then blame everyone else... then the component industry will fall over... but with Abbott getting a free trade deal with Korea, it'll mean in time that our goods work get hit with a 40% tariff we sell a lot of engines and transmissions into South Korea...

Typical conservative attitude... blame those who create the wealth rather than those who hoard it.

Kat wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 8:32pm:

True Blue... wrote on Dec 11th, 2013 at 8:30pm: no use in leaving the equipment here.. we'd only have greedy gutless dickhead CEO's stealing the cream and bully unions pushing up wages too high to make a profit.. (get in for your chop) we'd end up with the same old same old with the government bailing out the car industry...  ::) if the Unions and workers had half a brain they'd go to the CEOs, all put their pay packets on the table and start making cuts by % until it puts them back in the black... Toyota workers should see the writing on the wall as well... those filthy bludgers have one of the worst sicky rate in Australia...  >:( they will put themselves out of work as well and then blame everyone else... then the component industry will fall over... but with Abbott getting a free trade deal with Korea, it'll mean in time that our goods work get hit with a 40% tariff we sell a lot of engines and transmissions into South Korea...  Typical conservative attitude... blame those who create the wealth rather than those who hoard it.

there is no wealth kat.. they are broke and running at a loss...

please don't cherry pick my posts... I've covered CEOs down to the toilet cleaner...

like I said.. everyone needs to sit at the table and start cutting until you get into the black..

but they wont because they are Smacking dickheads... they'll get let the company close and go on the dole pissing and moaning all the way to the end of the employment line..  ::)

by the way.. scrap the tax would help manufacturing...

but as if Gillard, Rudd, Swan and co give a stuff that they have buggered australias manufacturing industry... they are sitting back on some island by now sipping cocktails on a big fat Australian tax payer funded pension..  >:(

Sir lastnail wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 8:13pm:

red baron wrote on Dec 11th, 2013 at 6:29pm: You've got 21,500 in your pocket and you want to buy a medium sized car. Would you rather have a Holden Cruze for 20.363 or a Honda Civic for 21.500? It's like comparing a turd with a pedigree horse. For the extra grand you can have it all with the Honda or you can buy the Cruze then get ready for all the shite that comes once they get past three years old. No wonder Holden have gone down the chute. Incidentally my 5 year old Honda has 150K on the clock and is going like it is brand new. Honda can be a PIA as well when it comes to reliability and the cost of parts. I know someone who bought a new Honda CRV Sports SUV which developed a fault with the transmission. The dealer kept putting her off until after the warranty period expired and then she was up for a new automatic transmission at her own cost. It turns out that this is a common fault with that particular model :( The whole auto industry is setup to make money from service and parts that's why it is no skin off Holdens nose if it no longer makes cars here.

I am continuously amazed at how much shlt you continue to post after having been set straight.

Car companies make almost nothing from parts or servicing. The real money comes from selling cars. What good is it to Holden if you take their car to a private mechanic or use any of the many mechanical companies out there (ultratune, lubemobile, etc) which is what most people do? Even if you take it to the dealer the dealer is privately owned. Very little if any goes back to the head company, and warranty repairs bring them nothing but a loss. As for parts, with aftermarket suppliers as well as used parts from wreckers, how many parts do you really think Holden sell? The parts that need changing (brakes, shocks, lights, etc) are all made and can be bought from other companies, so except for crash damage there is not a big market for parts that in anyway compares to the actual selling of the cars.

Stop posting such obvious and illogical BS. Nothing you say makes any sense.

True Blue... wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 8:44pm:

by the way.. scrap the tax would help manufacturing... but as if Gillard, Rudd, Swan and co give a stuff that they have buggered australias manufacturing industry... they are sitting back on some island by now sipping cocktails on a big fat Australian tax payer funded pension..  >:(

They shouldn't, because they didn't.

This has been going on for years, LONG before 2007.

Granted, Labor did very little to help, but the rot started under
Fraser/Howard, and has gotten steadily worse.

But don't let facts get in the way of your bias.

The ALP creates a power tax, manufacturing companies start to leave in droves.

Draw a line, genius.

You don't get to decide what a company which has purchased equipment does with it I am afraid!!

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 9:36pm:

You don't get to decide what a company which has purchased equipment does with it I am afraid!!

Our taxes paid for it, AND under false pretences, so yes we bloody-well WILL.

Proud Aussie wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 9:25pm:

The ALP creates a power tax, manufacturing companies start to leave in droves. Draw a line, genius.

Didn't read my post, or didn't comprehend it?

Or just here to troll?

Kat wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 9:50pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 11th, 2013 at 9:36pm: You don't get to decide what a company which has purchased equipment does with it I am afraid!! Our taxes paid for it, AND under false pretences, so yes we bloody-well WILL.

Sorry Kat but no you won't and you know that.

Kat wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 9:50pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 11th, 2013 at 9:36pm: You don't get to decide what a company which has purchased equipment does with it I am afraid!! Our taxes paid for it, AND under false pretences, so yes we bloody-well WILL.

Just here to laugh at idiocy like this.  ;D

Quantum wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 8:57pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Dec 11th, 2013 at 8:13pm: red baron wrote on Dec 11th, 2013 at 6:29pm: You've got 21,500 in your pocket and you want to buy a medium sized car. Would you rather have a Holden Cruze for 20.363 or a Honda Civic for 21.500? It's like comparing a turd with a pedigree horse. For the extra grand you can have it all with the Honda or you can buy the Cruze then get ready for all the shite that comes once they get past three years old. No wonder Holden have gone down the chute. Incidentally my 5 year old Honda has 150K on the clock and is going like it is brand new. Honda can be a PIA as well when it comes to reliability and the cost of parts. I know someone who bought a new Honda CRV Sports SUV which developed a fault with the transmission. The dealer kept putting her off until after the warranty period expired and then she was up for a new automatic transmission at her own cost. It turns out that this is a common fault with that particular model :( The whole auto industry is setup to make money from service and parts that's why it is no skin off Holdens nose if it no longer makes cars here. I am continuously amazed at how much shlt you continue to post after having been set straight. Car companies make almost nothing from parts or servicing. The real money comes from selling cars. What good is it to Holden if you take their car to a private mechanic or use any of the many mechanical companies out there (ultratune, lubemobile, etc) which is what most people do? Even if you take it to the dealer the dealer is privately owned. Very little if any goes back to the head company, and warranty repairs bring them nothing but a loss. As for parts, with aftermarket suppliers as well as used parts from wreckers, how many parts do you really think Holden sell? The parts that need changing (brakes, shocks, lights, etc) are all made and can be bought from other companies, so except for crash damage there is not a big market for parts that in anyway compares to the actual selling of the cars. Stop posting such obvious and illogical BS. Nothing you say makes any sense.

you are an idiot if you don't believe car companies make at least 40% of revenue from parts and maintenance. Just price the cost of all of the parts used in a car as spare part items and then see how much the car would cost to make ?

They make a fortune on spare parts and maintenance. Just see all of the dickheads waiting to pickup their cars from service departments everyday at your nearest dealer. Fossil fool cars are inherently unreliable and there is a fortune to be made from the sale of disposable items with built in obsolescence. A bit of oil not worth more than 20 bucks and a 9 dollar oil filter and Mazda charges $280 for the privilege :( And dealers don't care about any competition from backyarders because most people who buy new cars stay with the dealer in case of any warranty claims.

Is it little wonder they are not interested in building electric cars with little or no maintenance and parts to replace.

Do your research instead of pretending that you know everything. I found this out years ago when I did research into electric cars. It was one of the main reasons why car companies don't want to produce a reliable product that requires little or no maintenance and or parts that wear out.

Car dealers make very little out of the sales transaction unless they can stitch you up to finance and sell you extended warranties.

Sir lastnail wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 10:28pm:

Quantum wrote on Dec 11th, 2013 at 8:57pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Dec 11th, 2013 at 8:13pm: red baron wrote on Dec 11th, 2013 at 6:29pm: You've got 21,500 in your pocket and you want to buy a medium sized car. Would you rather have a Holden Cruze for 20.363 or a Honda Civic for 21.500? It's like comparing a turd with a pedigree horse. For the extra grand you can have it all with the Honda or you can buy the Cruze then get ready for all the shite that comes once they get past three years old. No wonder Holden have gone down the chute. Incidentally my 5 year old Honda has 150K on the clock and is going like it is brand new. Honda can be a PIA as well when it comes to reliability and the cost of parts. I know someone who bought a new Honda CRV Sports SUV which developed a fault with the transmission. The dealer kept putting her off until after the warranty period expired and then she was up for a new automatic transmission at her own cost. It turns out that this is a common fault with that particular model :( The whole auto industry is setup to make money from service and parts that's why it is no skin off Holdens nose if it no longer makes cars here. I am continuously amazed at how much shlt you continue to post after having been set straight. Car companies make almost nothing from parts or servicing. The real money comes from selling cars. What good is it to Holden if you take their car to a private mechanic or use any of the many mechanical companies out there (ultratune, lubemobile, etc) which is what most people do? Even if you take it to the dealer the dealer is privately owned. Very little if any goes back to the head company, and warranty repairs bring them nothing but a loss. As for parts, with aftermarket suppliers as well as used parts from wreckers, how many parts do you really think Holden sell? The parts that need changing (brakes, shocks, lights, etc) are all made and can be bought from other companies, so except for crash damage there is not a big market for parts that in anyway compares to the actual selling of the cars. Stop posting such obvious and illogical BS. Nothing you say makes any sense. you are f.cking idiot if you don't believe car companies make at least 40% of revenue from parts and maintenance. Just price the cost of all of the parts used in a car as spare part items and then see how much the car would cost to make ? They make a fortune on spare parts and maintenance. Just see all of the dickheads waiting to pickup their cars from service departments everyday at your nearest dealer. Fossil fool cars are inherently unreliable and there is a fortune to be made from the sale of disposable items with built in obsolescence. A bit of oil not worth more than 20 bucks and a 9 dollar oil filter and Mazda charges $280 for the privilege :( And dealers don't care about any competition from backyarders because most people who buy new cars stay with the dealer in case of any warranty claims. Is it little wonder they are not interested in building electric cars with little or no maintenance and parts to replace. Do your research instead of pretending that you know everything. I found this out years ago when I did research into electric cars. It was one of the main reasons why car companies don't want to produce a reliable product that requires no maintenance and or parts that wear out.

It is amazing how you can have something explained to you after you made a stupid comment, only for you to reply with even more BS than the initial statement that was corrected.

*A warranty is valid no matter where it is serviced.
*Most of the money for the service goes to the dealership, not the manufacturer. They are not the same thing.
*90% of an electric car is the same as an oil burning car. The 10% difference is the engine and transmission, and if you haven't noticed, on modern day cars that is the last part to wear out. Everything that gets serviced on a normal car (except for the engine) will need to get serviced on an EV. You are living in a dream world.


Quote:

Do your research instead of pretending that you know everything. I found this out years ago when I did research into electric cars. It was one of the main reasons why car companies don't want to produce a reliable product that requires no maintenance and or parts that wear out.

This is one of the stupidest comments you have ever made. This is really good shlt. Your trying to claim that you have done the reaserch, yet you want us to believe that (for example) a Nissan Leaf never needs maintenance or servicing? That it never wears out? How the hell can you even try to post such crap and expect to be taken seriously?


Quote:

you are f.cking idiot if you don't believe car companies make at least 40% of revenue from parts and maintenance

I thought the last comment was really stupid, but wow... At least 40% you say? You really have no idea do you. This is proof that you have no understanding of the auto world are just making crap up.

Sir lastnail wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 10:28pm:

Car dealers make very little out of the sales transaction unless they can stitch you up to finance and sell you extended warranties.

It gets worse!!! Where do you keep pulling this shlt from? Your arse must be empty by now...

What they Holden GM should have done is produced a small utility/ wagon vehicle to a affordable price, unlike your Colorado or D max type vehicle, for Australia like the HoldenRodeo was.

but instead they produced vehicles, sedans like a Holden Commodore senator at $90,000 price tag on it.

supercar value for a standard car.

one word Greed.

bring back vehicles like the Holden shuttle van as a people carrier.

but they won't, all they have been interested in making is fuel guslling commodores for the usa, middle eastern, or euopean markets to put a chevy badge on them.

we'll make you a modern American muscle car. and sell it to you a lot cheaper than we sell it to Australia.

that the reason way they are going under.
same for ford, big petrol gulling sedans is all they can create. a modern American muscle car.

look kat,

you always fail to see the big picture...

there are many pressures in the car industries, always have been...

but when you are up against the ropes and making hundreds of billions of dollars of losses the last thing you need is a carbon tax which DID PUSH UP ENERGY PRICES which hammered Manufacturing industries high in energy use...

but you have to ask as well... were they ever going to stay in Australia long term?

NO...

over the past 10 years we've given Holden 19 Billion dollars in handouts...

we'll they can get stuffed!!

also picture this...

back in around 1960 holden produced around 200,000 cars right?

they employed over 23,000 people...

today, they are back down to making approx. 200,000 cars...

they only employ 2900...

why?

Robotics...

Automation friends 

we live in modern times and have to get with it, or be left for dead... ;)

by the way...

just some fun facts for you guys...

it was Prime Minister Ben Chifley who brought Holden to Australia..

one of the Great Prime Ministers of Australia and Leader of the Labor Party...

what has happened to the Labor party now that they can't find a guy like this...

also the Snowy Mountain Scheme.. over saw the foundations of Qantas and TAA.. creation of the commonwealth employment service.. introduction of federal funds to the States for public housing construction... establishment of a Universities Commission for the expansion of university education.... introduction of a Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme.... free hospital ward treatment.... reorganisation and enlargement of the CSIRO.... founding of the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation (ASIO),,, and heaps of other stuff...  :)

True Blue... wrote on Dec 12^th, 2013 at 6:38am:

by the way... just some fun facts for you guys... it was Prime Minister Ben Chifley who brought Holden to Australia.. one of the Great Prime Ministers of Australia and Leader of the Labor Party... what has happened to the Labor party now that they can't find a guy like this... also the Snowy Mountain Scheme.. over saw the foundations of Qantas and TAA.. creation of the commonwealth employment service.. introduction of federal funds to the States for public housing construction... establishment of a Universities Commission for the expansion of university education.... introduction of a Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme.... free hospital ward treatment.... reorganisation and enlargement of the CSIRO.... founding of the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation (ASIO),,, and heaps of other stuff...  :)

Don't worry, Blue, I've often contemplated that exact question.

I doubt I'm alone...

Proud Aussie wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 9:25pm:

The ALP creates a power tax, manufacturing companies start to leave in droves. Draw a line, genius.

Genius is a copper boat anchor  :-[

Kat wrote on Dec 11^th, 2013 at 9:52pm:

Proud Aussie wrote on Dec 11th, 2013 at 9:25pm: The ALP creates a power tax, manufacturing companies start to leave in droves. Draw a line, genius. Didn't read my post, or didn't comprehend it? Or just here to troll?

Correction: andrei the global moderator is here to troll! [Fixed  :o]

Quote:

if the Unions and workers had half a brain they'd go to the CEOs, all put their pay packets on the table and start making cuts by % until it puts them back in the black..

::) I think someone already explained that they did take a pay cut ..... but obviously the Executive did not!

No Union or worker wants to make unsustainable wages demands that would see the company shut down & they lose their job.

Despite what you say.... that is a fact.

an because you say that that's the end of the disussion here.