All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country.

Truebelieverland.

Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke.  Executed their PM.  There'd be no businesses or industry.  They'd be overrun with illegal entrants.  Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... ;D

They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land.  But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in.  The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing.  A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after

The end

PS

......... after 100 years Coalitionland annexes Truebeliverland as apparently the population became extinct......they claim Terra nullius.





:D :D :D :D :D :D

No they would not be over run by illegals.

I offer you the example of Tasmania, the closest thing we have to your Truebelieverland.
No one want to go there.

Swagman wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons

Yeah have fun with your fallout zone there

Stratos wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 10:51am:

Swagman wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:45am: toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons Yeah have fun with your fallout zone there

You know that the nukes are not meant to be dropped on your own country, don't you?

OK - so now we need FOUR islands - we have The Gender Islands, with a group of men on one and a group of women on the other and see how they go - then we add in another two, the Political Islands... Right Island and Left Island and see how THEY go.. all islands have the same start-up resources and we see how they go and see what happens over time.

I STILL say the Men's Island will build boats to get to the Women's Island..... the Righties might invade the Lefties...or the other way around.

Auditions are open for this upcoming Grappler Enterprises program - coming soon to national television near YOU!

Left wing island would never chop down a tree to make  a boat.

BigOl64 wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 10:53am:

Stratos wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:51am: Swagman wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:45am: toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons Yeah have fun with your fallout zone there You know that the nukes are not meant to be dropped on your own country, don't you?

It's like you've never heard of the Cold War or something? Bay of Pigs? Mutually assured destruction?  Ringing any bells?

miketrees wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 11:03am:

Left wing island would never chop down a tree to make  a boat.

very true...and they wouldnt chop one down to make smoke either so wonder how they would keep in touch.[ no fire no smoke signals].to spread the PAn ic and Whingeing...

oh blow they didnt think of that did they?..
strewth kat wouldnt last a minute.

Stratos wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 10:51am:

Swagman wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:45am: toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons Yeah have fun with your fallout zone there

Coalitionland scientists have perfected effective fallout capture technologies....

Imagine the public holidays: Self-castigation day, Sodomy day, Caliphate day, pick on whitey day (although, admittedly, these things would be everyday occurrences in lefty land).

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 10:58am:

OK - so now we need FOUR islands - we have The Gender Islands, with a group of men on one and a group of women on the other and see how they go - then we add in another two, the Political Islands... Right Island and Left Island and see how THEY go.. all islands have the same start-up resources and we see how they go and see what happens over time. I STILL say the Men's Island will build boats to get to the Women's Island..... the Righties might invade the Lefties...or the other way around. Auditions are open for this upcoming Grappler Enterprises program - coming soon to national television near YOU!

you forgot the gays only island......oh the mind boggles..no dress ups ::) they wont go..

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 11:16am:

Imagine the public holidays: Self-castigation day, Sodomy day, Caliphate day, pick on whitey day (although, admittedly, these things would be everyday occurrences in lefty land).

what about save a bikie day...now they would go in droves...

there are 365 days in a year.. and I bet they would find a bloody whinge for everyone of them

What is it with these rightards—cannot stand an iota of criticism.

No government is perfect, and the bunch of howard era fossils are very far from perfect! The simian is such an idiot he travels to meet with the economic elite—and talks party politics! WTF?

Criticism is healthy. Guess the rightards are insecure and defensive because the shambles led by the simian (until he is replaced) is going to be outright embarrassing!


Quote:

The govt just borrowed a further $800m, over 13 yrs (our kids will be paying it back!). Gross debt issued since 9 Sep is now $42.25 billion— Stephen Koukoulas (@TheKouk) January 24, 2014

Quote:

The deterioration in the underlying cash balance since the 2013 PEFO is $16.8 billion in the 2013‑14 financial year and $68.1 billion over the forward estimates. This is in addition to the $33.1 billion deterioration in the budget position between the 2013‑14 Budget and the 2013 PEFO. The total underlying cash deterioration over the forward estimates since the 2013‑14 Budget is $101.2 billion. In accrual terms, the fiscal balance is expected to be a deficit of $41.8 billion (2.7 per cent of GDP) in 2013‑14 and $14.5 billion (0.8 per cent of GDP) in 2016‑17. The deterioration in the budget position since the 2013 PEFO reflects two key factors: the softer economic outlook; and essential steps to address unresolved issues inherited from the former government. Firstly, a softening in the economic outlook has resulted in significantly lower nominal GDP, which has largely driven the reduction in tax receipts by more than $37 billion over the forward estimates. The softer economic outlook, coupled with changes in demand‑driven programmes, has also increased payments across the forward estimates. The Australian economy will continue to transition from resources‑investment led growth to broader sources of growth over the forecast period. However, the transition is now forecast to be slower than at the 2013 PEFO. While the fall in resources investment is expected to be sharper than previously forecast, the recovery in the non‑resources sector is expected to be more gradual. As a result, real GDP is forecast to grow at a slower rate of 2½ per cent in 2014‑15, compared to 3 per cent in the 2013 PEFO. With domestic prices and wages also forecast to be softer than at the 2013 PEFO, nominal GDP has been revised down significantly.

http://www.budget.gov.au/2013-14/content/myefo/html/01_part_1.htm

The govt Budget is in trouble because company tax revenues are such a major part of total tax revenues and in any sort of economic contraction company tax revenue, and so total tax revenue drops fairly dramatically. This is all part of Peter Costello’s structural Budget deficit.

It is clear, then, that income tax needs to be increased dramatically, I sugggest that the last 2 or 3 tax cuts to the top brackets need to be reversed. Since governments and Parties don’t have a deathwish such a decision needs to be a bipartisan issue. It would also help to reduce the outrageous tax expenditures benefitting the 1-2% richest people, estimated to run to $50Bn a year.

So when the simian and the shambles attack, as they have been doing, both verbally and in terms of reducing help, the poorest and most vulnerable in the community, they are not solving the problem of the continuing problem of the structural imbalance of the revenues nor the problem of the deficit. Therefor they and their fanbois better brace themselves for vigorous criticism!

cods wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 11:18am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:58am: OK - so now we need FOUR islands - we have The Gender Islands, with a group of men on one and a group of women on the other and see how they go - then we add in another two, the Political Islands... Right Island and Left Island and see how THEY go.. all islands have the same start-up resources and we see how they go and see what happens over time. I STILL say the Men's Island will build boats to get to the Women's Island..... the Righties might invade the Lefties...or the other way around. Auditions are open for this upcoming Grappler Enterprises program - coming soon to national television near YOU! you forgot the gays only island......oh the mind boggles..no dress ups ::) they wont go..

Damn - you're right!  Maybe a Lesbos and a Gayos or whatever - look at how men and women gays handle things.

OK - SIX Islands it is...

"The Six Islands Of Dr Grappler"...... already put the idea to the ABC - next the SBS.... you'll get your cut from the proceeds.  I've got the director lined up..... I'll produce..... need crew and motivated people to participate....

I'll go to truebelieverland .... all you rightards can go to truedelludedland

George is a front runner for Truebelieverlander of the Year.....

I provide evidence for my conclusions. I have noticed you never do, so swaggie, you are one of the truly deluded.

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 11:25am:

cods wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 11:18am: Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:58am: OK - so now we need FOUR islands - we have The Gender Islands, with a group of men on one and a group of women on the other and see how they go - then we add in another two, the Political Islands... Right Island and Left Island and see how THEY go.. all islands have the same start-up resources and we see how they go and see what happens over time. I STILL say the Men's Island will build boats to get to the Women's Island..... the Righties might invade the Lefties...or the other way around. Auditions are open for this upcoming Grappler Enterprises program - coming soon to national television near YOU! you forgot the gays only island......oh the mind boggles..no dress ups ::) they wont go.. Damn - you're right!  Maybe a Lesbos and a Gayos or whatever - look at how men and women gays handle things. OK - SIX Islands it is... "The Six Islands Of Dr Grappler"...... already put the idea to the ABC - next the SBS.... you'll get your cut from the proceeds.  I've got the director lined up..... I'll produce..... need crew and motivated people to participate....

Nup - I think we'll turn this into a series, each set of Islands separate,  and franchise it out as well - the US should pay big dollars for this one.... we can also have the Generation Islands - Baby Boomers on one and Gen X on another and see who makes the best of it.  I have a fair idea who'd win that one!

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 11:27am:

I provide evidence for my conclusions. I have noticed you never do, so swaggie, you are one of the truly deluded.

...but you didn't provide evidence for concluding that I never provide evidence for concluding.... :D

You all, both Right & Left, do realize that it takes two to tango?

The socialists would all pull together and share the fruits of their labour.....The Capitalists would exploit each other and take what ever advantage they can at the detriment of the greater community.....Capitalism creates winners and losers that exploits resources for the benefit of the individual over the whole community.....CSG is a classic example of Capitalism exploiting resources over the concerns of the greater community....IMO!!!

8-) 8-) 8-)

http://www.budget.gov.au/2013-14/content/myefo/html/14_appendix_b-02.htm

Total tax revenue 13/14 $252Bn
Company tax 13/14 $70Bn = 28%
Individual tax $168Bn = 67%

BTW—MRRT $500m, this would be rising rapidly with the end of the investment phase of mining, the rapid depreciation running out. Since we need all the revenue we can muster, and the MRRT only applies to mines earning large incomes just what the hell justification is there for cancelling it? Gina being unhappy with it is not a valid reason!

http://www.budget.gov.au/2013-14/content/myefo/html/06_attachment_c.htm
Tax expenditures.

Since the shambles are now taxing the contributions of the lowest paid, ensuring future governments will have higher pension liabilities, how the hell can tax expenditures for super go from $35Bn this year to $40Bn next year and $51Bn in 2016/7? This is tax deductions given to the richest 10%, does not encourage people to invest more in super, just to use it as a tax haven for income! Cancel this rort and the deficit is wiped out! Hmmm the shambles have said they are going to keep them, so they are not serious about reducing “debt and deficit.” In the simian’s kindergarten terms, we are using money we haven’t got to make a few rich people richer.

Other tax expenditures rise from $59Bn to $65Bn in 2016/7. A lot of this is FBT, again tax money given to those who don’t really need it.

For the righties who probably need the explanation—tax expenditures are taxes foregone that could well be collected.

So smacking around fiddling with the dole and DSP won’t do anything to solve the problem of the Budget deficit. They are meant to please the Lib base. The real work correcting imbalances and tax largesse will be left to the next Labor govt.

Go ahead and look—those are the official figures

philperth2010 wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 11:50am:

The socialists would all pull together and share the fruits of their labour.....

Yet every time this has been tried it results in millions of deaths and/or unproductive and short lasting bureaucracies.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 11:59am:

philperth2010 wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 11:50am: The socialists would all pull together and share the fruits of their labour..... russia , china,  ;D ;D Yet every time this has been tried it results in millions of deaths and/or unproductive and short lasting bureaucracies.

Quote:

Below, you will see some of the most socialistic nations in the world today: •China •Denmark •Finland •Netherlands •Canada •Sweden •Norway •Ireland •New Zealand •Belgium

http://blog.peerform.com/top-ten-most-socialist-countries-in-the-world/

The most Capitalist country in the world is the USA.....


Quote:

OECD: China will be Largest Economy Around 2016 The OECD’s Economic Survey of China paints a highly favorable picture of Beijing’s future growth prospects. China has already overtaken the EU as the second largest economy in the world, and can be expected to surpass the U.S. economy as the world’s biggest economy around 2016, according to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).

http://thediplomat.com/2013/03/oecd-china-will-be-largest-economy-around-2016/

::) ::) ::)

philperth2010 wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 12:11pm:

Quote: Below, you will see some of the most socialistic nations in the world today: •China •Denmark •Finland •Netherlands •Canada •Sweden •Norway •Ireland •New Zealand •Belgium

They all work along market principles. They sell goods and services on the market and fund public institutions through taxation.

Quote:

China In China the government manages and controls the economy. Many of the domestic companies are owned and run by the government. Recently, the Chinese economy has become more geared towards capitalism, but is still officially socialist. Life in China remains relatively less stressful and more relaxed than life in capitalist countries like America. Denmark Denmark has a wide range of welfare benefits that they offer their citizens. As a result, they also have the highest taxes in the world. Equality is considered the most important value in Denmark. Small businesses thrive, with over 70 percent of companies having 50 employees or less Finland Finland has one of the world’s best education systems, with no tuition fees and also giving free meals to their students. The literacy rate in Finland is 100 percent. Finland has one of the highest standards of living in the world. Like Denmark and other European countries, equality is considered one of the most important values in society. Whereas in the Netherlands, government control over the economy remains at a minimum, but a socialist welfare system remains. The lifestyle in the Netherlands is very egalitarian and organized, where even bosses do not discipline or treat their subordinates rudely. Canada Like the Netherlands, Canada also has mostly a free market economy, but has a very extensive welfare system that includes free health and medical care. Canadians remain more open-minded and liberal than Americans, and Canada is ranked as one of the best top five countries to live in by the United Nations and the Human Development Index (HDI) rankings. Sweden Sweden has a large welfare system, but due to a high national debt, required much government intervention in the economy. In Norway, the government controls certain key aspects of the national economy, and they also have one of the best welfare systems in the world, with Norway having one of the highest standards of living in all of Europe. Norway is not a member of the European Union. Ireland Ireland has arguably one of the best welfare systems in the world, with unemployment checks higher on average than Denmark or Switzerland’s average. Around 25 percent of Ireland’s GDP goes towards paying for the welfare system, as compared to 15 percent of America’ GDP towards America’s social support programs. New Zealand New Zealand may not be a socialist country, but the welfare system in the country is very wide ranging, offering support for housing, unemployment, health, child care, and education as well. Therefore, New Zealand has many of the characteristics of a socialist country, even while remaining officially free market. Belgium Lastly, Belgium has most of the same social security benefits that New Zealand offers, including invalid and old age pensions. The welfare system causes much of the country’s budget deficit though, and so is considered by some to be a burden on society.

These countries have adopted economic Capitalism with Government Socialism.....The best of both systems!!!

:) :) :)

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 12:18pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 12:11pm: Quote: Below, you will see some of the most socialistic nations in the world today: •China •Denmark •Finland •Netherlands •Canada •Sweden •Norway •Ireland •New Zealand •Belgium They all work along market principles. They sell goods and services on the market and fund public institutions through taxation.

Hmm, it's almost like an ideal situation is not going to any extreme but meeting somewhere in the middle  ::)

Swagman wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country. Truebelieverland. Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke.  Executed their PM.  There'd be no businesses or industry.  They'd be overrun with illegal entrants.  Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... ;D They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land.  But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in.  The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing.  A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after The end PS ......... after 100 years Coalitionland annexes Truebeliverland as apparently the population became extinct......they claim Terra nullius. :D :D :D :D :D :D

Strange how you try to accuse "lefties" of being "true believers" when its typically the "righties"that believe in the invisible entity controlling every aspect of their lives . . .

SOB

Stratos wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 11:04am:

BigOl64 wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:53am: Stratos wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:51am: Swagman wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:45am: toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons Yeah have fun with your fallout zone there You know that the nukes are not meant to be dropped on your own country, don't you? It's like you've never heard of the Cold War or something? Bay of Pigs? Mutually assured destruction?  Ringing any bells?

The Cold War was about NOT using nuclear weapons, the Bay of Pigs was a conventionally armed attempt at a counter revolution against Castro by Cuban refugees (financed and organised by the CIA).

And mutually assured destruction was a retaliatory response system in the event of nuclear attack by either the East or West.

None of these involved using nuclear weapons on your own soil, so are completely meaningless..

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 1:32pm:

Strange how you try to accuse "lefties" of being "true believers" when its typically the "righties"that believe in the invisible entity controlling every aspect of their lives . . . SOB

Don't talk about Howard and Keating while I'm trying to eat......

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 1:43pm:

None of these involved using nuclear weapons on your own soil, so are completely meaningless..

Fire a nuke and see what happens.  There s a very good reason why people don't

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 1:32pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:45am: All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country. Truebelieverland. Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke.  Executed their PM.  There'd be no businesses or industry.  They'd be overrun with illegal entrants.  Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... ;D They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land.  But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in.  The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing.  A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after The end PS ......... after 100 years Coalitionland annexes Truebeliverland as apparently the population became extinct......they claim Terra nullius. :D :D :D :D :D :D Strange how you try to accuse "lefties" of being "true believers" when its typically the "righties"that believe in the invisible entity controlling every aspect of their lives . . . SOB

Lefties have an invisible entity in control too....it's called Gaia.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 1:32pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:45am: All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country. Truebelieverland. Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke.  Executed their PM.  There'd be no businesses or industry.  They'd be overrun with illegal entrants.  Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... ;D They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land.  But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in.  The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing.  A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after The end PS ......... after 100 years Coalitionland annexes Truebeliverland as apparently the population became extinct......they claim Terra nullius. :D :D :D :D :D :D Strange how you try to accuse "lefties" of being "true believers" when its typically the "righties"that believe in the invisible entity controlling every aspect of their lives . . . SOB

My goodness you really have a f*cked up view of the world. Left and right wing politics are separate from spiritual beliefs. In your twisted little world, every Christian/Hindu/Muslim/etc votes for Liberal and every atheist votes for Labor. How totally detached form reality can you get?

Stratos wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 1:24pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 12:18pm: philperth2010 wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 12:11pm: Quote: Below, you will see some of the most socialistic nations in the world today: •China •Denmark •Finland •Netherlands •Canada •Sweden •Norway •Ireland •New Zealand •Belgium They all work along market principles. They sell goods and services on the market and fund public institutions through taxation. Hmm, it's almost like an ideal situation is not going to any extreme but meeting somewhere in the middle  ::)

imagine that? why  hadn't anyone thought of it sooner  :D :D :D :D

Stratos wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 1:45pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 1:43pm: None of these involved using nuclear weapons on your own soil, so are completely meaningless.. Fire a nuke and see what happens.  There s a very good reason why people don't

Yes, there is. It's because countries HAVE them.

And still....none of the examples you posted involved the use of nuclear weapons on the country's own soil, so you are still wrong.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 2:27pm:

Stratos wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 1:45pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 1:43pm: None of these involved using nuclear weapons on your own soil, so are completely meaningless.. Fire a nuke and see what happens.  There s a very good reason why people don't Yes, there is. It's because countries HAVE them. And still....none of the examples you posted involved the use of nuclear weapons on the country's own soil, so you are still wrong.

Correct, sorry.

Nukes are a great idea.  Lets build nuke because nukes r gud

Quantum wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 2:16pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 1:32pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:45am: All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country. Truebelieverland. Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke.  Executed their PM.  There'd be no businesses or industry.  They'd be overrun with illegal entrants.  Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... ;D They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land.  But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in.  The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing.  A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after The end PS ......... after 100 years Coalitionland annexes Truebeliverland as apparently the population became extinct......they claim Terra nullius. :D :D :D :D :D :D Strange how you try to accuse "lefties" of being "true believers" when its typically the "righties"that believe in the invisible entity controlling every aspect of their lives . . . SOB My goodness you really have a f*cked up view of the world. Left and right wing politics are separate from spiritual beliefs. In your twisted little world, every Christian/Hindu/Muslim/etc votes for Liberal and every atheist votes for Labor. How totally detached form reality can you get?

Where did i say that troll?

SOB

Stratos wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 2:33pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:27pm: Stratos wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 1:45pm: gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 1:43pm: None of these involved using nuclear weapons on your own soil, so are completely meaningless.. Fire a nuke and see what happens.  There s a very good reason why people don't Yes, there is. It's because countries HAVE them. And still....none of the examples you posted involved the use of nuclear weapons on the country's own soil, so you are still wrong. Correct, sorry. Nukes are a great idea.  Lets build nuke because nukes r gud

Ok, works for me, add a few nuclear power stations while we're at it..
Glad you have finally come to your senses..

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 2:58pm:

Quantum wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:16pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 1:32pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:45am: All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country. Truebelieverland. Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke.  Executed their PM.  There'd be no businesses or industry.  They'd be overrun with illegal entrants.  Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... ;D They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land.  But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in.  The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing.  A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after The end PS ......... after 100 years Coalitionland annexes Truebeliverland as apparently the population became extinct......they claim Terra nullius. :D :D :D :D :D :D Strange how you try to accuse "lefties" of being "true believers" when its typically the "righties"that believe in the invisible entity controlling every aspect of their lives . . . SOB My goodness you really have a f*cked up view of the world. Left and right wing politics are separate from spiritual beliefs. In your twisted little world, every Christian/Hindu/Muslim/etc votes for Liberal and every atheist votes for Labor. How totally detached form reality can you get? Where did i say that troll? SOB

In the quote moron. You keep pretending that right and left is a result of belief. There are a lot of Christians and Muslims and others who vote for the left side of politics. Just as there are a lot of atheist who vote for the right. Stop being so two dimensional. In fact, two dimensional for you would be an improvement, it would show that your mind is opening. Stop being so bloody 1 dimensional with your left and right mixed with religious BS.    

No matter what the true Party Political believers on both sides of Politics may believe, there is little to no truth in rumours spread by those "who believe" that one or another side of Politics is inherently better or worse than the other.

The truth is that the real test for both Political & Economic systems, is that of outcomes & not just outcomes, But LONG TERM OUTCOMES, BOTH ECONOMIC & THE HUMANITIES!

Unfortunately, most Politicians & Political Party's, over a considerable length of time, both here in OZ & in most other countries, have failed to pass this test!

philperth2010 wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 12:11pm:

Quote: Below, you will see some of the most socialistic nations in the world today: •China •Denmark •Finland •Netherlands •Canada •Sweden •Norway •Ireland •New Zealand •Belgium http://blog.peerform.com/top-ten-most-socialist-countries-in-the-world/ The most Capitalist country in the world is the USA..... [quote]OECD: China will be Largest Economy Around 2016 The OECD’s Economic Survey of China paints a highly favorable picture of Beijing’s future growth prospects. China has already overtaken the EU as the second largest economy in the world, and can be expected to surpass the U.S. economy as the world’s biggest economy around 2016, according to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).

http://thediplomat.com/2013/03/oecd-china-will-be-largest-economy-around-2016/

::) ::) ::)[/quote]

All the while these burgeoning developing economies are condeming us to a world where AGW will not be halted.

But yes, applaud them loudly, hop up on their pedestal and show us what we should aspire to become like.

China.....

:-/

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 1:46pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 1:32pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:45am: All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country. Truebelieverland. Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke.  Executed their PM.  There'd be no businesses or industry.  They'd be overrun with illegal entrants.  Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... ;D They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land.  But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in.  The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing.  A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after The end PS ......... after 100 years Coalitionland annexes Truebeliverland as apparently the population became extinct......they claim Terra nullius. :D :D :D :D :D :D Strange how you try to accuse "lefties" of being "true believers" when its typically the "righties"that believe in the invisible entity controlling every aspect of their lives . . . SOB Lefties have an invisible entity in control too....it's called Gaia.

Fist ive heard of it - you sure its popular?

SOB

Quantum wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 3:31pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:58pm: Quantum wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:16pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 1:32pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:45am: All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country. Truebelieverland. Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke.  Executed their PM.  There'd be no businesses or industry.  They'd be overrun with illegal entrants.  Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... ;D They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land.  But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in.  The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing.  A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after The end PS ......... after 100 years Coalitionland annexes Truebeliverland as apparently the population became extinct......they claim Terra nullius. :D :D :D :D :D :D Strange how you try to accuse "lefties" of being "true believers" when its typically the "righties"that believe in the invisible entity controlling every aspect of their lives . . . SOB My goodness you really have a f*cked up view of the world. Left and right wing politics are separate from spiritual beliefs. In your twisted little world, every Christian/Hindu/Muslim/etc votes for Liberal and every atheist votes for Labor. How totally detached form reality can you get? Where did i say that troll? SOB In the quote moron. You keep pretending that right and left is a result of belief. There are a lot of Christians and Muslims and others who vote for the left side of politics. Just as there are a lot of atheist who vote for the right. Stop being so two dimensional. In fact, two dimensional for you would be an improvement, it would show that your mind is opening. Stop being so bloody 1 dimensional with your left and right mixed with religious BS.

Yeah well perhaps you should learn to read troll. I said "typically" meaning (as you well know) the righteous ones.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 4:20pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 1:46pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 1:32pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:45am: All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country. Truebelieverland. Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke.  Executed their PM.  There'd be no businesses or industry.  They'd be overrun with illegal entrants.  Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... ;D They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land.  But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in.  The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing.  A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after The end PS ......... after 100 years Coalitionland annexes Truebeliverland as apparently the population became extinct......they claim Terra nullius. :D :D :D :D :D :D Strange how you try to accuse "lefties" of being "true believers" when its typically the "righties"that believe in the invisible entity controlling every aspect of their lives . . . SOB Lefties have an invisible entity in control too....it's called Gaia. Fist ive heard of it - you sure its popular? SOB

Sure, may not only be called Gaia, but the same idea, be it Mother Nature, the Earth Mother or 'The Environment' doesn't matter...it's still a non-corporeal intelligence telling them what to do (which is basically the same as all the other deities) 

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 4:21pm:

Quantum wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 3:31pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:58pm: Quantum wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:16pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 1:32pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:45am: All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country. Truebelieverland. Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke.  Executed their PM.  There'd be no businesses or industry.  They'd be overrun with illegal entrants.  Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... ;D They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land.  But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in.  The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing.  A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after The end PS ......... after 100 years Coalitionland annexes Truebeliverland as apparently the population became extinct......they claim Terra nullius. :D :D :D :D :D :D Strange how you try to accuse "lefties" of being "true believers" when its typically the "righties"that believe in the invisible entity controlling every aspect of their lives . . . SOB My goodness you really have a f*cked up view of the world. Left and right wing politics are separate from spiritual beliefs. In your twisted little world, every Christian/Hindu/Muslim/etc votes for Liberal and every atheist votes for Labor. How totally detached form reality can you get? Where did i say that troll? SOB In the quote moron. You keep pretending that right and left is a result of belief. There are a lot of Christians and Muslims and others who vote for the left side of politics. Just as there are a lot of atheist who vote for the right. Stop being so two dimensional. In fact, two dimensional for you would be an improvement, it would show that your mind is opening. Stop being so bloody 1 dimensional with your left and right mixed with religious BS.     Yeah well perhaps you should learn to read troll. I said "typically" meaning (as you well know) the righteous ones. SOB

But it is not typical at all. That is just you colouring things.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 11:16am:

Imagine the public holidays: Self-castigation day, Sodomy day, Caliphate day, pick on whitey day (although, admittedly, these things would be everyday occurrences in lefty land).

This made me laugh. I mean it's choc full of Misty's hang ups and all but its cleaver.  I'll pay it . (oh dear I hope misty wasn't offended by my use of the word "choc")

Swagman wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country. Truebelieverland. Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke.  Executed their PM.  There'd be no businesses or industry.  They'd be overrun with illegal entrants.  Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... ;D They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land.  But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in.  The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing.  A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after The end PS ......... after 100 years Coalitionland annexes Truebeliverland as apparently the population became extinct......they claim Terra nullius. :D :D :D :D :D :D

On the up-side, there'd be lots of greenery (trees, etc)! LMAO!!  ;D ;D ;D

Quantum wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 4:42pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 4:21pm: Quantum wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 3:31pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:58pm: Quantum wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:16pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 1:32pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:45am: All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country. Truebelieverland. Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke.  Executed their PM.  There'd be no businesses or industry.  They'd be overrun with illegal entrants.  Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... ;D They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land.  But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in.  The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing.  A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after The end PS ......... after 100 years Coalitionland annexes Truebeliverland as apparently the population became extinct......they claim Terra nullius. :D :D :D :D :D :D Strange how you try to accuse "lefties" of being "true believers" when its typically the "righties"that believe in the invisible entity controlling every aspect of their lives . . . SOB My goodness you really have a f*cked up view of the world. Left and right wing politics are separate from spiritual beliefs. In your twisted little world, every Christian/Hindu/Muslim/etc votes for Liberal and every atheist votes for Labor. How totally detached form reality can you get? Where did i say that troll? SOB In the quote moron. You keep pretending that right and left is a result of belief. There are a lot of Christians and Muslims and others who vote for the left side of politics. Just as there are a lot of atheist who vote for the right. Stop being so two dimensional. In fact, two dimensional for you would be an improvement, it would show that your mind is opening. Stop being so bloody 1 dimensional with your left and right mixed with religious BS.     Yeah well perhaps you should learn to read troll. I said "typically" meaning (as you well know) the righteous ones. SOB But it is not typical at all. That is just you colouring things.

Yes it is

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 5:39pm:

Quantum wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 4:42pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 4:21pm: Quantum wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 3:31pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:58pm: Quantum wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:16pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 1:32pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:45am: All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country. Truebelieverland. Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke.  Executed their PM.  There'd be no businesses or industry.  They'd be overrun with illegal entrants.  Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... ;D They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land.  But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in.  The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing.  A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after The end PS ......... after 100 years Coalitionland annexes Truebeliverland as apparently the population became extinct......they claim Terra nullius. :D :D :D :D :D :D Strange how you try to accuse "lefties" of being "true believers" when its typically the "righties"that believe in the invisible entity controlling every aspect of their lives . . . SOB My goodness you really have a f*cked up view of the world. Left and right wing politics are separate from spiritual beliefs. In your twisted little world, every Christian/Hindu/Muslim/etc votes for Liberal and every atheist votes for Labor. How totally detached form reality can you get? Where did i say that troll? SOB In the quote moron. You keep pretending that right and left is a result of belief. There are a lot of Christians and Muslims and others who vote for the left side of politics. Just as there are a lot of atheist who vote for the right. Stop being so two dimensional. In fact, two dimensional for you would be an improvement, it would show that your mind is opening. Stop being so bloody 1 dimensional with your left and right mixed with religious BS.     Yeah well perhaps you should learn to read troll. I said "typically" meaning (as you well know) the righteous ones. SOB But it is not typical at all. That is just you colouring things. Yes it is SOB

Nope, for it to be typical, it has to be the way a majority of the people are, so unless you can show that more than 60%-75% of 'righties' are believers in "the invisible entity controlling every aspect of their lives . . .", then it's not 'typical'

Swagman wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country. Truebelieverland. Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke.  Executed their PM.  There'd be no businesses or industry.  They'd be overrun with illegal entrants.  Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... ;D They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land.  But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in.  The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing.  A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after The end PS ......... after 100 years Coalitionland annexes Truebeliverland as apparently the population became extinct......they claim Terra nullius.

I assume you are an Ayn Rand fan  ("Atlas Shrugged").  A  piece of fiction that I thoroughly enjoyed but a long way from reality.

Ayn Rand is a total fraud.

No social security, no public health etc?

Remember the bit about the retired tobacconist in Atlas Shrugged? “I like to think of a man sitting enjoying a cigarette—fire controlled, at his finger tips” or wtte.

Ayne Rand went to Canada for free public operation on the cancer in her lung. She claimed welfare in her last years.

A fraud as well as a crap writer and hypocrite.

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 6:14pm:

Ayn Rand is a total fraud. No social security, no public health etc? Remember the bit about the retired tobacconist in Atlas Shrugged? “I like to think of a man sitting enjoying a cigarette—fire controlled, at his finger tips” or wtte. Ayne Rand went to Canada for free public operation on the cancer in her lung. She claimed welfare in her last years. A fraud as well as a crap writer and hypocrite.

I agree with all except the 'crap writer' comment.  I did enjoy the work of 'science fiction' and encouraged me to read more of her work.  (Reading opposing  political doctrine does not upset me :)

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 6:14pm:

Ayn Rand is a total fraud. No social security, no public health etc? Remember the bit about the retired tobacconist in Atlas Shrugged? “I like to think of a man sitting enjoying a cigarette—fire controlled, at his finger tips” or wtte. Ayne Rand went to Canada for free public operation on the cancer in her lung. She claimed welfare in her last years. A fraud as well as a crap writer and hypocrite.

But that's what that ideology is about.  You get everything you can but give nothing back in return. The ultimate in "greed is good" 

Cliff48 wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 6:29pm:

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 6:14pm: Ayn Rand is a total fraud. No social security, no public health etc? Remember the bit about the retired tobacconist in Atlas Shrugged? “I like to think of a man sitting enjoying a cigarette—fire controlled, at his finger tips” or wtte. Ayne Rand went to Canada for free public operation on the cancer in her lung. She claimed welfare in her last years. A fraud as well as a crap writer and hypocrite. I agree with all except the 'crap writer' comment.  I did enjoy the work of 'science fiction' and encouraged me to read more of her work.  (Reading opposing  political doctrine does not upset me :)

I agree. I think its a very important thing to do. For keeping your mind open and for honing your own ideas. Having said that I once vowed that I would read the Daily Telegraph once a week.  I lasted 30 minutes. That is the biggest tripe, honestly I think you must have a mind of jelly to read that junk. 

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 6:37pm:

Cliff48 wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 6:29pm: St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 6:14pm: Ayn Rand is a total fraud. No social security, no public health etc? Remember the bit about the retired tobacconist in Atlas Shrugged? “I like to think of a man sitting enjoying a cigarette—fire controlled, at his finger tips” or wtte. Ayne Rand went to Canada for free public operation on the cancer in her lung. She claimed welfare in her last years. A fraud as well as a crap writer and hypocrite. I agree with all except the 'crap writer' comment.  I did enjoy the work of 'science fiction' and encouraged me to read more of her work.  (Reading opposing  political doctrine does not upset me :) I agree. I think its a very important thing to do. For keeping your mind open and for honing your own ideas. Having said that I once vowed that I would read the Daily Telegraph once a week.  I lasted 30 minutes. That is the biggest tripe, honestly I think you must have a mind of jelly to read that junk.

ROFLMAO - you will find more intellectual writings on a public toilet wall  :)

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 3:48pm:

No matter what the true Party Political believers on both sides of Politics may believe, there is little to no truth in rumours spread by those "who believe" that one or another side of Politics is inherently better or worse than the other. The truth is that the real test for both Political & Economic systems, is that of outcomes & not just outcomes, But LONG TERM OUTCOMES, BOTH ECONOMIC & THE HUMANITIES! Unfortunately, most Politicians & Political Party's, over a considerable length of time, both here in OZ & in most other countries, have failed to pass this test!

A quick look at Reality shows a "somewhat" different picture, to PR slogans painted by Politicians.

In broad terms, the USA & Japan are painted as Capitalist countries, whilst Norway would generally come under Socialism, as it has major Public ownership of various major business entities & it provides considerable Services to the Public, including Medical  & Retirement Benefits, But it also applies quite high Taxes.

But, the current Economic outcomes can only be described as "interesting, including a comparison to OZ -

1) Japan - 212% Debt to GDP Ratio

2) USA - 102% Debt to GDP Ratio

3) Norway - 28% Debt to GDP Ratio   

4) Australia - 21% Debt to GDP Ratio

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/country-list/government-debt-to-gdp

So, the leading Capitalist countries are actually in Debt, BIG TIME, whilst both Norway & Australia actually have quite modest Debt.

But, it doesn't finish there, because Australia also has an $80 Billion Future fund, which is some 5% o its GDP, which is ok, But the big winners are the Norwegians who have a "Future Fund" now sitting around $900 Billion, which is approaching 200% of their GDP.

So, like I said, IT'S ABOUT OUTCOMES & LONG TERM OUTCOMES AT THAT!

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 6:52pm:

But the big winners are the Norwegians who have a "Future Fund" now sitting around %900 Billion, which is approaching 200% of their GDP.

Norway has a sovereign fund that is more than 1 million a person.  A large part of this is because when they found they were sitting on a resource gold mine, they decided to invest the revenue from it, instead of Australia, which instead decided to give upper class tax cuts.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-09/all-norwegians-become-millionaire-shareholders-in-world27s-big/5191480

Stratos wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 6:58pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 6:52pm: But the big winners are the Norwegians who have a "Future Fund" now sitting around %900 Billion, which is approaching 200% of their GDP. Norway has a sovereign fund that is more than 1 million a person.  A large part of this is because when they found they were sitting on a resource gold mine, they decided to invest the revenue from it, instead of Australia, which instead decided to give upper class tax cuts. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-09/all-norwegians-become-millionaire-shareholders-in-world27s-big/5191480

Buying votes with our wealth has been going on for decades .....   unfortunately.

Cliff48 wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 7:08pm:

Stratos wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 6:58pm: perceptions_now wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 6:52pm: But the big winners are the Norwegians who have a "Future Fund" now sitting around %900 Billion, which is approaching 200% of their GDP. Norway has a sovereign fund that is more than 1 million a person.  A large part of this is because when they found they were sitting on a resource gold mine, they decided to invest the revenue from it, instead of Australia, which instead decided to give upper class tax cuts. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-09/all-norwegians-become-millionaire-shareholders-in-world27s-big/5191480 Buying votes with our wealth has been going on for decades .....   unfortunately.

Very true unfortunately.  I was more pointing out what an intelligent country does with a windfall, as opposed to an opportunistic one.

Stratos wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 6:58pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 6:52pm: But the big winners are the Norwegians who have a "Future Fund" now sitting around %900 Billion, which is approaching 200% of their GDP. Norway has a sovereign fund that is more than 1 million a person.  A large part of this is because when they found they were sitting on a resource gold mine, they decided to invest the revenue from it, instead of Australia, which instead decided to give upper class tax cuts. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-09/all-norwegians-become-millionaire-shareholders-in-world27s-big/5191480

My error, that should have been $900 Billion, not %900 Billion.

That said, Politicians on both Left & Right in Norway, put the countries Natural Resource Wealth to work for the entire Population, not just a small segment of the Population, which is what Australia & most other countries have done with their Natural Resources.

The result is that Norway are one of the few countries who will be able to survive the coming Economic mess, in a reasonable way!

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 6:52pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 3:48pm: No matter what the true Party Political believers on both sides of Politics may believe, there is little to no truth in rumours spread by those "who believe" that one or another side of Politics is inherently better or worse than the other. The truth is that the real test for both Political & Economic systems, is that of outcomes & not just outcomes, But LONG TERM OUTCOMES, BOTH ECONOMIC & THE HUMANITIES! Unfortunately, most Politicians & Political Party's, over a considerable length of time, both here in OZ & in most other countries, have failed to pass this test! A quick look at Reality shows a "somewhat" different picture, to PR slogans painted by Politicians. In broad terms, the USA & Japan are painted as Capitalist countries, whilst Norway would generally come under Socialism, as it has major Public ownership of various major business entities & it provides considerable Services to the Public, including Medical  & Retirement Benefits, But it also applies quite high Taxes. But, the current Economic outcomes can only be described as "interesting, including a comparison to OZ - 1) Japan - 212% Debt to GDP Ratio 2) USA - 102% Debt to GDP Ratio 3) Norway - 28% Debt to GDP Ratio    4) Australia - 21% Debt to GDP Ratio http://www.tradingeconomics.com/country-list/government-debt-to-gdp So, the leading Capitalist countries are actually in Debt, BIG TIME, whilst both Norway & Australia actually have quite modest Debt. But, it doesn't finish there, because Australia also has an $80 Billion Future fund, which is some 5% o its GDP, which is ok, But the big winners are the Norwegians who have a "Future Fund" now sitting around $900 Billion, which is approaching 200% of their GDP. So, like I said, IT'S ABOUT OUTCOMES & LONG TERM OUTCOMES AT THAT!

Good post PN. I know this doesn't tell the whole story but just another piece of evidence that the cr@p were being told that capitalism works better, is just that cr@p!. It works better for the rich is all

Swagman wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country. Truebelieverland. Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke.  Executed their PM.  There'd be no businesses or industry.  They'd be overrun with illegal entrants.  Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... ;D They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land.  But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in.  The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing.  A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after The end

what a beautiful piece of literature!
write a story, I mean it! except for the 25%

Torpedo wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 8:46pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:45am: All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country. Truebelieverland. Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke.  Executed their PM.  There'd be no businesses or industry.  They'd be overrun with illegal entrants.  Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... ;D They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land.  But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in.  The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing.  A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after The end what a beautiful piece of literature! write a story, I mean it! except for the 25%

Non-fiction..........sad but true..........but what 25%

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 12:43am:

Torpedo wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 8:46pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:45am: All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country. Truebelieverland. Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke.  Executed their PM.  There'd be no businesses or industry.  They'd be overrun with illegal entrants.  Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... ;D They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land.  But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in.  The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing.  A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after The end what a beautiful piece of literature! write a story, I mean it! except for the 25% Non-fiction..........sad but true..........but what 25%

Well you did write 25% GST, which seems a bit high, since the welfare costs will go way down.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 5:58pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 5:39pm: Quantum wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 4:42pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 4:21pm: Quantum wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 3:31pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:58pm: Quantum wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 2:16pm: Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 1:32pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:45am: All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country. Truebelieverland. Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke.  Executed their PM.  There'd be no businesses or industry.  They'd be overrun with illegal entrants.  Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... ;D They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land.  But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in.  The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing.  A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after The end PS ......... after 100 years Coalitionland annexes Truebeliverland as apparently the population became extinct......they claim Terra nullius. :D :D :D :D :D :D Strange how you try to accuse "lefties" of being "true believers" when its typically the "righties"that believe in the invisible entity controlling every aspect of their lives . . . SOB My goodness you really have a f*cked up view of the world. Left and right wing politics are separate from spiritual beliefs. In your twisted little world, every Christian/Hindu/Muslim/etc votes for Liberal and every atheist votes for Labor. How totally detached form reality can you get? Where did i say that troll? SOB In the quote moron. You keep pretending that right and left is a result of belief. There are a lot of Christians and Muslims and others who vote for the left side of politics. Just as there are a lot of atheist who vote for the right. Stop being so two dimensional. In fact, two dimensional for you would be an improvement, it would show that your mind is opening. Stop being so bloody 1 dimensional with your left and right mixed with religious BS.     Yeah well perhaps you should learn to read troll. I said "typically" meaning (as you well know) the righteous ones. SOB But it is not typical at all. That is just you colouring things. Yes it is SOB Nope, for it to be typical, it has to be the way a majority of the people are, so unless you can show that more than 60%-75% of 'righties' are believers in "the invisible entity controlling every aspect of their lives . . .", then it's not 'typical'

Are you trying to tell me that most rightards are NOT religious nuts?

SOB

Nah - most religious nuts are Rightards.... not the same thing...

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 4:52am:

Nah - most religious nuts are Rightards.... not the same thing...

Haha you may have a point

SOB

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 12:43am:

Torpedo wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 8:46pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:45am: All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country. Truebelieverland. Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke.  Executed their PM.  There'd be no businesses or industry.  They'd be overrun with illegal entrants.  Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... ;D They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land.  But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in.  The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing.  A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after The end what a beautiful piece of literature! write a story, I mean it! except for the 25% Non-fiction..........sad but true..........but what 25%

having trouble distinguishing between truth and fiction, I see .... have you met Warrigal yet? I think you two would get along great  ;D ;D ;D

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:09am:

Swagman wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 12:43am: Torpedo wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 8:46pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:45am: All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country. Truebelieverland. Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke.  Executed their PM.  There'd be no businesses or industry.  They'd be overrun with illegal entrants.  Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... ;D They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land.  But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in.  The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing.  A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after The end what a beautiful piece of literature! write a story, I mean it! except for the 25% Non-fiction..........sad but true..........but what 25% Well you did write 25% GST, which seems a bit high, since the welfare costs will go way down.

Based on Finland where they have a 24% GST and a very efficient public health and education sector.

The Fins also have relatively low marginal tax rates (30% is the highest bracket) and a low company tax rate (24.5%)

Now a Truebeliever would argue that a 24%  GST is unfair on the poor but the opposite is true.

Why?  Because the GST funds the public services and social security that the poor rely upon. 

Unlike here where the GSt was used to transfer money to the rich.

I did suggest that Swanny broadened the base and increased the rate of the GST— http://wp.me/p30JJG-56 —in a way that overcompensated those on lowest incomes. That would make the GST fairer and even boost private sector spending (disposable income.) I included reform to payroll tax so that the states got more revenue from that and the broadening of the GST base.

But I no longer think that—there is WAY too much money in the form of tax expenditures going to the rich that needs to be cut, like $100Bn a year and growing rapidly—THAT is the true unsustainability in government spending.

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 10:52am:

Unlike here where the GSt was used to transfer money to the rich

The GST goes to the States George.  It's supposed to fund State responsibilities like education & hospitals.

Therefore any increase in GST has to be a boost to such services. 

The GST should be increased as an alternative to increasing interest rates. 

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 11:23am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 10:52am: Unlike here where the GSt was used to transfer money to the rich The GST goes to the States George.  It's supposed to fund State responsibilities like education & hospitals. Therefore any increase in GST has to be a boost to such services.  The GST should be increased as an alternative to increasing interest rates.

So Swaggy, IF the Capitalist way is so good, THEN WHY are the results of its "leaders", so CRAPPY?


perceptions_now wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 6:52pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 3:48pm: No matter what the true Party Political believers on both sides of Politics may believe, there is little to no truth in rumours spread by those "who believe" that one or another side of Politics is inherently better or worse than the other. The truth is that the real test for both Political & Economic systems, is that of outcomes & not just outcomes, But LONG TERM OUTCOMES, BOTH ECONOMIC & THE HUMANITIES! Unfortunately, most Politicians & Political Party's, over a considerable length of time, both here in OZ & in most other countries, have failed to pass this test! A quick look at Reality shows a "somewhat" different picture, to PR slogans painted by Politicians. In broad terms, the USA & Japan are painted as Capitalist countries, whilst Norway would generally come under Socialism, as it has major Public ownership of various major business entities & it provides considerable Services to the Public, including Medical  & Retirement Benefits, But it also applies quite high Taxes. But, the current Economic outcomes can only be described as "interesting, including a comparison to OZ - 1) Japan - 212% Debt to GDP Ratio 2) USA - 102% Debt to GDP Ratio 3) Norway - 28% Debt to GDP Ratio    4) Australia - 21% Debt to GDP Ratio http://www.tradingeconomics.com/country-list/government-debt-to-gdp So, the leading Capitalist countries are actually in Debt, BIG TIME, whilst both Norway & Australia actually have quite modest Debt. But, it doesn't finish there, because Australia also has an $80 Billion Future fund, which is some 5% o its GDP, which is ok, But the big winners are the Norwegians who have a "Future Fund" now sitting around $900 Billion, which is approaching 200% of their GDP. So, like I said, IT'S ABOUT OUTCOMES & LONG TERM OUTCOMES AT THAT!

So your point is that you dont support any economic system even though i get a very subtle lefty impression out of you perceptions.

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 11:23am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 10:52am: Unlike here where the GSt was used to transfer money to the rich The GST goes to the States George.  It's supposed to fund State responsibilities like education & hospitals. Therefore any increase in GST has to be a boost to such services.  The GST should be increased as an alternative to increasing interest rates.

Interest rates and GST address two separate issues.
Also worth noting that GST would affect everybody and raising interest rates only directly effects those who have mortgages.

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 11:31am:

So Swaggy, IF the Capitalist way is so good, THEN WHY are the results of its "leaders", so CRAPPY?

That's an easy one because  as the story says......


Quote:

The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to

Those that pay the majority of tax are in the minority.  Government is in the hands of the Freeloaders.

The Countries that are deep in public debt have been maintaining living standards by maxing the credit card instead of balancing the books.

Why go without when you have a credit card to hit.  Labor's motto... ;D

And as the Iron Lady said...."the trouble with socialism is that you always run out of other people's money"..... :(

Actually, Coalitionland is broke as nobody ever pays tax! They all send money to tax havens and claim all the numerous tax dodges.

In truebelieverland the majority work and pay tax.

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 11:40am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 11:31am: So Swaggy, IF the Capitalist way is so good, THEN WHY are the results of its "leaders", so CRAPPY? That's an easy one because  as the story says...... Quote: The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to Those that pay the majority of tax are in the minority.  Government is in the hands of the Freeloaders. The Countries that are deep in public debt have been maintaining living standards by maxing the credit card instead of balancing the books. Why go without when you have a credit card to hit.  Labor's motto... ;D And as the Iron Lady said...."the trouble with socialism is that you always run out of other people's money"..... :(

I was wrong ... you're not delluded .... you are even beyond even the delluded . If the govt. hadn't supported those 'freeloaders' you'd have gone the way of the French aristicracy in the period of 1789 - 1799 .....

swinging on the ned of a rope.....  :D :D

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 11:40am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 11:31am: So Swaggy, IF the Capitalist way is so good, THEN WHY are the results of its "leaders", so CRAPPY? That's an easy one because  as the story says...... Quote: The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to Those that pay the majority of tax are in the minority.  Government is in the hands of the Freeloaders. The Countries that are deep in public debt have been maintaining living standards by maxing the credit card instead of balancing the books. Why go without when you have a credit card to hit.  Labor's motto... ;D And as the Iron Lady said...."the trouble with socialism is that you always run out of other people's money"..... :(

In fact, I referred to the Capitalist "Leaders" of the USA & Japan, they are the ones in "DEEP DEBT", whilst the "Socialists" in Norway are in a MUCH, MUCH BETTER POSITION!

It is not just a simple matter of the Left is CRAP & the Right is GREAT! In fact, most Politicians around the Globe, on both the Right & Left have done a poor long term job, over at least the last 50-60 years!

But, the "true Believers", from both Left & Right", are stuck in their own mire/mess & are unlikely to admit, THEIR SIDE STUFFED THINGS UP!

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:09am:

Swagman wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 12:43am: Torpedo wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 8:46pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:45am: All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country. Truebelieverland. Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke.  Executed their PM.  There'd be no businesses or industry.  They'd be overrun with illegal entrants.  Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... ;D They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land.  But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in.  The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing.  A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after The end what a beautiful piece of literature! write a story, I mean it! except for the 25% Non-fiction..........sad but true..........but what 25% Well you did write 25% GST, which seems a bit high, since the welfare costs will go way down.

A "bit"?!?
That's a "bit" underestimated

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 4:52am:

Nah - most religious nuts are Rightards.... not the same thing...

Not that I noticed, many muslims are leftists

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 10:33am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 2:09am: Swagman wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 12:43am: Torpedo wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 8:46pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:45am: All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country. Truebelieverland. Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke.  Executed their PM.  There'd be no businesses or industry.  They'd be overrun with illegal entrants.  Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... ;D They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land.  But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in.  The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing.  A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after The end what a beautiful piece of literature! write a story, I mean it! except for the 25% Non-fiction..........sad but true..........but what 25% Well you did write 25% GST, which seems a bit high, since the welfare costs will go way down. Based on Finland where they have a 24% GST and a very efficient public health and education sector. The Fins also have relatively low marginal tax rates (30% is the highest bracket) and a low company tax rate (24.5%) Now a Truebeliever would argue that a 24%  GST is unfair on the poor but the opposite is true. Why?  Because the GST funds the public services and social security that the poor rely upon.

Finland is an established old country. They have one purpose, one culture, one nation.
Australia is young and still very messy nation, it's a zoo, no-one have the desire to pay for no-one, at least not now.
Maybe, when it will all be Austrasian, or Austrindian, or hopefully Australian, maybe you could then impose ridiculous tax rate impossible for anyone to pay rent, and have everyone working for the benefit of the bored unemployed bashing and king hitting, or drug addict, or radical fanatic with 10 troubled kids, and 4 unemployed women in each household, or some cultural fkwit who doens't recognise you as a human because your are white, or anglo, or christian, or whatever it may be that doesn't suit whatever 'minority' with sad past, sad present, and sad future, although, continue eating and living on these taxes you are actually working on...
At the moment, I personally don't see why I should be paying so much, I just don't see who is going to benefit, certainly not me.
What you will experience, is most small business will stop existence, and you will be relying on the trash that is left.

What  re you saying Torpedo?  That in the future you want to aim towards Socialism?

ok, here is the reality.
Currently we are paying around 5k rent a month, 3k rent/mortgage, we are not holidaying or allowing ourselves any luxuries, we pretty much work for the kids education, roof over our heads, food, rent and ... yes, you guessed it 10% GSfknT!
Now, normally we have to extend the GST repayments, as we constantly, and I mean forever living on credit, this vicious circle is scary, as our kids are still very young.
The 10% is 5-6k out of our pockets every QTR, sometimes more, depends on the time of the year, and we struggle to pay. Not to mention Income tax!
Should the 25% hit us, it will kills us and our business, leave us and our kids in the hands of fate.
Next door business neighbours are already at this stage, the premises have been 'for lease' the last 6 months.
It's unaffordable.
But go on, why not, let's test it.

Stratos wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 12:35pm:

What  re you saying Torpedo?  That in the future you want to aim towards Socialism?

no

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 12:33pm:

Finland is an established old country. They have one purpose, one culture, one nation.Australia is young and still very messy nation, it's a zoo, no-one have the desire to pay for no-one, at least not now.

Australia's federation is older than Finland's.

Finland was a relative latecomer to industrialisation, remaining a largely agrarian country until the 1950s. Thereafter, it rapidly developed an advanced economy (according to Wikipedia)

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 1:30pm:

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 12:33pm: Finland is an established old country. They have one purpose, one culture, one nation.Australia is young and still very messy nation, it's a zoo, no-one have the desire to pay for no-one, at least not now. Australia's federation is older than Finland's. Finland was a relative latecomer to industrialisation, remaining a largely agrarian country until the 1950s. Thereafter, it rapidly developed an advanced economy (according to Wikipedia)

I meant country, nation and culture, not industrialisation.
In comparison to them Australia is well behind. Australia doesn't have any decent culture. Doesn't have one purpose.
These are the main attributes that induce purpose, as a nation, not individualism. And I am not talking about socialism, I am referring to similar mentality, views on life, moral values.

But anyway, in essence it's still not the most important, as much as I know many Finns are quite uncertain about future of their country, and many are not happy about the system, in particular those who are excluded from the creamy part

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 12:41pm:

ok, here is the reality. Currently we are paying around 5k rent a month, 3k rent/mortgage, we are not holidaying or allowing ourselves any luxuries, we pretty much work for the kids education, roof over our heads, food, rent and ... yes, you guessed it 10% GSfknT! Now, normally we have to extend the GST repayments, as we constantly, and I mean forever living on credit, this vicious circle is scary, as our kids are still very young. The 10% is 5-6k out of our pockets every QTR, sometimes more, depends on the time of the year, and we struggle to pay. Not to mention Income tax! Should the 25% hit us, it will kills us and our business, leave us and our kids in the hands of fate. Next door business neighbours are already at this stage, the premises have been 'for lease' the last 6 months. It's unaffordable. But go on, why not, let's test it.

So you collect GST from your customers - but have trouble remitting it to the government because you use this money for other purposes?   (my heart bleeds)

Cliff48 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 1:46pm:

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 12:41pm: ok, here is the reality. Currently we are paying around 5k rent a month, 3k rent/mortgage, we are not holidaying or allowing ourselves any luxuries, we pretty much work for the kids education, roof over our heads, food, rent and ... yes, you guessed it 10% GSfknT! Now, normally we have to extend the GST repayments, as we constantly, and I mean forever living on credit, this vicious circle is scary, as our kids are still very young. The 10% is 5-6k out of our pockets every QTR, sometimes more, depends on the time of the year, and we struggle to pay. Not to mention Income tax! Should the 25% hit us, it will kills us and our business, leave us and our kids in the hands of fate. Next door business neighbours are already at this stage, the premises have been 'for lease' the last 6 months. It's unaffordable. But go on, why not, let's test it. So you collect GST from your customers - but have trouble remitting it to the government because you use this money for other purposes?   (my heart bleeds)

You must do you maths before you accuse anyone of anything.
How the bugger would you run a business when you pay GST on products you buy to run and don't charge GST on what you sell.
You must be a socialist.

And yeah, I hope you heart does bleed, one day... for all the tortures you mean, it should dam bleed

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 1:49pm:

Cliff48 wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 1:46pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 12:41pm: ok, here is the reality. Currently we are paying around 5k rent a month, 3k rent/mortgage, we are not holidaying or allowing ourselves any luxuries, we pretty much work for the kids education, roof over our heads, food, rent and ... yes, you guessed it 10% GSfknT! Now, normally we have to extend the GST repayments, as we constantly, and I mean forever living on credit, this vicious circle is scary, as our kids are still very young. The 10% is 5-6k out of our pockets every QTR, sometimes more, depends on the time of the year, and we struggle to pay. Not to mention Income tax! Should the 25% hit us, it will kills us and our business, leave us and our kids in the hands of fate. Next door business neighbours are already at this stage, the premises have been 'for lease' the last 6 months. It's unaffordable. But go on, why not, let's test it. So you collect GST from your customers - but have trouble remitting it to the government because you use this money for other purposes?   (my heart bleeds) You must do you maths before you accuse anyone of anything. How the bugger would you run a business when you pay GST on products you buy to run and don't charge GST on what you sell. You must be a socialist.

You must be the most pathetic business man i know.

and also, lets not forget, inflation boom is now inevitable.
as soon as you begin to adjust your lifestyle  - if you can still call it a lifestyle, and not a prison cell - something happens, Carbon tax, sudden and unreasonable boost in utility rates, rent rise following the inflation, private health rise
smells of riot and massacre
another detroit?

Cliff48 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 1:58pm:

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 1:49pm: Cliff48 wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 1:46pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 12:41pm: ok, here is the reality. Currently we are paying around 5k rent a month, 3k rent/mortgage, we are not holidaying or allowing ourselves any luxuries, we pretty much work for the kids education, roof over our heads, food, rent and ... yes, you guessed it 10% GSfknT! Now, normally we have to extend the GST repayments, as we constantly, and I mean forever living on credit, this vicious circle is scary, as our kids are still very young. The 10% is 5-6k out of our pockets every QTR, sometimes more, depends on the time of the year, and we struggle to pay. Not to mention Income tax! Should the 25% hit us, it will kills us and our business, leave us and our kids in the hands of fate. Next door business neighbours are already at this stage, the premises have been 'for lease' the last 6 months. It's unaffordable. But go on, why not, let's test it. So you collect GST from your customers - but have trouble remitting it to the government because you use this money for other purposes?   (my heart bleeds) You must do you maths before you accuse anyone of anything. How the bugger would you run a business when you pay GST on products you buy to run and don't charge GST on what you sell. You must be a socialist. You must be the most pathetic business man i know.

perhaps, move on then

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 11:23am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 10:52am: Unlike here where the GSt was used to transfer money to the rich The GST goes to the States George.  It's supposed to fund State responsibilities like education & hospitals. Therefore any increase in GST has to be a boost to such services.  The GST should be increased as an alternative to increasing interest rates.

Your say that because you're only looking at your interests instead of the interests of the community as a whole. 

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 10:33am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 2:09am: Swagman wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 12:43am: Torpedo wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 8:46pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 10:45am: All the Lefty voters should live in one place and have their own country. Truebelieverland. Let's see.....in 5 minutes Truebelieverland would be broke.  Executed their PM.  There'd be no businesses or industry.  They'd be overrun with illegal entrants.  Unemployment would be 100% but they'd be collectively happy because everyone was equally miserable..... ;D They'd soon be in their leaky boats to get to Coalition-land.  But alas, the Coalitionlanders have protected their borders very well and they couldn't sneak in.  The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to and so the Coalitionlanders want for nothing.  A flat rate of income tax and a 25% GST pays for everything the tiny public service requires and the toughest best equipped defence force and with their arsenal of nuclear weapons and efficient domestic industries no schitbox countries dare mess with them so they live happily ever after The end what a beautiful piece of literature! write a story, I mean it! except for the 25% Non-fiction..........sad but true..........but what 25% Well you did write 25% GST, which seems a bit high, since the welfare costs will go way down. Based on Finland where they have a 24% GST and a very efficient public health and education sector. The Fins also have relatively low marginal tax rates (30% is the highest bracket) and a low company tax rate (24.5%) Now a Truebeliever would argue that a 24%  GST is unfair on the poor but the opposite is true. Why?  Because the GST funds the public services and social security that the poor rely upon.

Yes but the poor are paying a much higher %age of their income in taxes then the rich which of course is why you like it because you have a me, me, me focus rather then a community focus. So why should we listen to you since you only support policies that benefit you regardless of what harm it does to the rest of the community.      

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 12:41pm:

ok, here is the reality. Currently we are paying around 5k rent a month, 3k rent/mortgage, we are not holidaying or allowing ourselves any luxuries, we pretty much work for the kids education, roof over our heads, food, rent and ... yes, you guessed it 10% GSfknT! Now, normally we have to extend the GST repayments, as we constantly, and I mean forever living on credit, this vicious circle is scary, as our kids are still very young. The 10% is 5-6k out of our pockets every QTR, sometimes more, depends on the time of the year, and we struggle to pay. Not to mention Income tax! Should the 25% hit us, it will kills us and our business, leave us and our kids in the hands of fate. Next door business neighbours are already at this stage, the premises have been 'for lease' the last 6 months. It's unaffordable. But go on, why not, let's test it.

Its the same for most people Tropedo, not just struggling small business but for workers trying to bring up a family also.  The GST was brought in so that they could lower the tax for the rich and the high income earners.  That's why they want to increase the GST because the higher GST rate the less tax they pay.  It's really quite greedy and disgusting. 

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 12:42pm:

Stratos wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 12:35pm: What  re you saying Torpedo?  That in the future you want to aim towards Socialism? no

Of course you don't want socialism. You dream that one day you can be the impossibly rich person and then you wont care for the small business person who cant afford to pay their GST but then you wont care because you will be RICH!!!! Pushing people around and we will all dream of being like you.  Stupid person. Here let me tell you something that will save you all this trouble and heart break. You will never be rich.!!! Its just the dream they want you to chase so you will continue to support the system that makes them ridiculously rich. 

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 12:41pm:

ok, here is the reality. Currently we are paying around 5k rent a month, 3k rent/mortgage, we are not holidaying or allowing ourselves any luxuries, we pretty much work for the kids education, roof over our heads, food, rent and ... yes, you guessed it 10% GSfknT! Now, normally we have to extend the GST repayments, as we constantly, and I mean forever living on credit, this vicious circle is scary, as our kids are still very young. The 10% is 5-6k out of our pockets every QTR, sometimes more, depends on the time of the year, and we struggle to pay. Not to mention Income tax! Should the 25% hit us, it will kills us and our business, leave us and our kids in the hands of fate. Next door business neighbours are already at this stage, the premises have been 'for lease' the last 6 months. It's unaffordable. But go on, why not, let's test it.

The GST collected by your business should exceed the GST paid by your business unless your business is unprofitable. 

The trade-off of a high GST is low marginal tax rates and low company tax rates.

Low company tax rates attract business investment.  Low income tax rates promotes spending.  Business investment and higher spending levels equate to more job opportunities and greater GST tax revenues and income tax revenues.

The GST revenues fund superior education and superior public health.  A healthy intelligent population will have healthy and profitable enterprises.

The Fins have achieved this in a couple of generations.

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:21pm:

The GST was brought in so that they could lower the tax for the rich and the high income earners

Amongst other reasons The GST was brought in to broaden the tax base as one counter to an inevitable declining tax payer base brought on by an aging population.

The alternative is an income tax spiral or a debt spiral or more likely both.

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:34pm:

The Fins have achieved this in a couple of generations.

...Through a social democracy.

Seriously, based on your previous comments, if Australia tried to implement anything like the policies they have in Finland you would be the first to go nuts.

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:34pm:

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 12:41pm: ok, here is the reality. Currently we are paying around 5k rent a month, 3k rent/mortgage, we are not holidaying or allowing ourselves any luxuries, we pretty much work for the kids education, roof over our heads, food, rent and ... yes, you guessed it 10% GSfknT! Now, normally we have to extend the GST repayments, as we constantly, and I mean forever living on credit, this vicious circle is scary, as our kids are still very young. The 10% is 5-6k out of our pockets every QTR, sometimes more, depends on the time of the year, and we struggle to pay. Not to mention Income tax! Should the 25% hit us, it will kills us and our business, leave us and our kids in the hands of fate. Next door business neighbours are already at this stage, the premises have been 'for lease' the last 6 months. It's unaffordable. But go on, why not, let's test it. The GST collected by your business should exceed the GST paid by your business unless your business is unprofitable.  The trade-off of a high GST is low marginal tax rates and low company tax rates.

The business is profitable, but the more the profit the more GST, isn't that right.
Example:
Total sales in a Qtr = $150000
Total purchases = $80000
total GST  is $6363
add PAYGs another 3-4 gran, here is your share of $10K
so seems like it's better if business produces less sales

but increase it to 25%, you will be up to $30K

seems reasonable?
or am I missing something?

30k every quarter for a small person, even selling the last pair of pants off and sleeping in a carboard box out in the street won't help to pay it  :-X

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:43pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 2:21pm: The GST was brought in so that they could lower the tax for the rich and the high income earners Amongst other reasons The GST was brought in to broaden the tax base as one counter to an inevitable declining tax payer base brought on by an aging population. The alternative is an income tax spiral or a debt spiral or more likely both.

Ohhh BS!!!! The GST was brought in to recalibrate the tax burden so that high income earners could pay less income tax. All your spin wont change that fact 

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 11:23am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 10:52am: Unlike here where the GSt was used to transfer money to the rich The GST goes to the States George.  It's supposed to fund State responsibilities like education & hospitals. Therefore any increase in GST has to be a boost to such services.  The GST should be increased as an alternative to increasing interest rates.

Yeah yeah

Remember when the GST was brought in? Rich people got HUGE tax cuts, ordinary people got a bit of bracket creep returned—a clerk on $550/week got a massive $11 tax cut. Those on lower incomes spend more of their wage proportionally than higher income people (who also can get out of paying a lot of income tax, especially with all the tax expenditure Howard irresponsibly put into the Budget.

States had to give up the grants they used to get.

With all the GST revenue states have built bureaucratic empires, especially in hospitals and universities.

Any increase in GST should go to C/w who can then crack the whip over the states to get rid of huge bureaucracies, etc.

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 3:21pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 11:23am: St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 10:52am: Unlike here where the GSt was used to transfer money to the rich The GST goes to the States George.  It's supposed to fund State responsibilities like education & hospitals. Therefore any increase in GST has to be a boost to such services.  The GST should be increased as an alternative to increasing interest rates.  Yeah yeah Remember when the GST was brought in? Rich people got HUGE tax cuts, ordinary people got a bit of bracket creep returned—a clerk on $550/week got a massive $11 tax cut. Those on lower incomes spend more of their wage proportionally than higher income people (who also can get out of paying a lot of income tax, especially with all the tax expenditure Howard irresponsibly put into the Budget. States had to give up the grants they used to get. With all the GST revenue states have built bureaucratic empires, especially in hospitals and universities. Any increase in GST should go to C/w who can then crack the whip over the states to get rid of huge bureaucracies, etc.

I remember it well George.  You are entirely correct. The Swagman is banking that most people forgot how it was brought in and now he gives us this BS spin. 

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 3:00pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 2:43pm: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 2:21pm: The GST was brought in so that they could lower the tax for the rich and the high income earners Amongst other reasons The GST was brought in to broaden the tax base as one counter to an inevitable declining tax payer base brought on by an aging population. The alternative is an income tax spiral or a debt spiral or more likely both. Ohhh BS!!!! The GST was brought in to recalibrate the tax burden so that high income earners could pay less income tax. All your spin wont change that fact

Yes that's the standard reply one get's from Truebelievers... ::)

High income earners spend more.  GST is a tax on spending.  High income earners spend more and therefore pay more GST.

The GST is regressive but therein is its effectiveness.  It gathers in tax revenues from areas that pre-GST were untaxed.  The black economy, tourist dollars, proceeds of crime even high profile tax evaders with hidden tax havens.

In turn it's the down trodden citizens that get the MOST benefit out of the GST revenues.  The GST helps to fund the social services that they live off.

Hewson's 15% GST would now be 20 years old.  Just how much more do you think that the Public Sector would have benefitted from 50% more GST revenue for the last 20 years Smarty Sparty?   ;D

You Lefties dropped the ball in a spectacular fashion with that one.

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 3:37pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 3:00pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 2:43pm: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 2:21pm: The GST was brought in so that they could lower the tax for the rich and the high income earners Amongst other reasons The GST was brought in to broaden the tax base as one counter to an inevitable declining tax payer base brought on by an aging population. The alternative is an income tax spiral or a debt spiral or more likely both. Ohhh BS!!!! The GST was brought in to recalibrate the tax burden so that high income earners could pay less income tax. All your spin wont change that fact  Yes that's the standard reply one get's from Truebelievers... ::) High income earners spend more.  GST is a tax on spending.  High income earners spend more and therefore pay more GST. The GST is regressive but therein is its effectiveness.  It gathers in tax revenues from areas that pre-GST were untaxed.  The black economy, tourist dollars, proceeds of crime even high profile tax evaders with hidden tax havens. In turn it's the down trodden citizens that get the MOST benefit out of the GST revenues.  The GST helps to fund the social services that they live off. Hewson's 15% GST would now be 20 years old.  Just how much more do you think that the Public Sector would have benefitted from 50% more GST revenue for the last 20 years Smarty Sparty?   ;D You Lefties dropped the ball in a spectacular fashion with that one.

It was a measure to transfer income from poor to rich, just look at the size of the tax cuts!

Now the GST is acting to depress spending, yeah fantastic. Efficient? Pig’s arse!

Not only that, there is all the irresponsible, reckless spending by Howard to reward the rich that is costing the Budget like $100Bn a year and climbing. The rich spend  lot less proportionally and probably can get out of paying GST like they do income tax. And asset millionaires are still on full or part age pensions!

Howard only came up with the GST as a political ploy—he had run out of agenda.

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 3:52pm:

Howard only came up with the GST as a political ploy—he had run out of agenda

That's ridiculous.  The GST was about as popular as a fart in an elevator.  It certainly wasn't a vote buyer.... ;D

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 3:37pm:

High income earners spend more.  GST is a tax on spending.  High income earners spend more and therefore pay more GST.

Oh Cr@p.  This is what a high income earner (billionaire as a matter of fact) says about that BS spin argument. You know you pretend your proposals are for the interests of the community as a whole but they are transparently intended to advance your own interests at the expense of everyone else.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKCvf8E7V1g[/quote]

True—and Howard would have realised that but relied on his huge buffer of seats won in ’96.

In the end he basically lost the ’98 election—48.5%TPP but enough seats to hang on. Gave him a big scare.

From 2001—he spent like a drunken sailor and did in 2004, 2007 and we still have a Budget overloaded with pork despite all Swann’s efforts (cut like $130Bn of middleclass welfare.) The spending fanned the flames of a borrow-to-spend boom and inflated the boom. Bastards even tried to lower the prudential regulation of banks so the boom could be inflated even more—we might have lost at least one bank had they succeeded and had even a bigger crash in 2008.

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:48pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 2:34pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 12:41pm: ok, here is the reality. Currently we are paying around 5k rent a month, 3k rent/mortgage, we are not holidaying or allowing ourselves any luxuries, we pretty much work for the kids education, roof over our heads, food, rent and ... yes, you guessed it 10% GSfknT! Now, normally we have to extend the GST repayments, as we constantly, and I mean forever living on credit, this vicious circle is scary, as our kids are still very young. The 10% is 5-6k out of our pockets every QTR, sometimes more, depends on the time of the year, and we struggle to pay. Not to mention Income tax! Should the 25% hit us, it will kills us and our business, leave us and our kids in the hands of fate. Next door business neighbours are already at this stage, the premises have been 'for lease' the last 6 months. It's unaffordable. But go on, why not, let's test it. The GST collected by your business should exceed the GST paid by your business unless your business is unprofitable.  The trade-off of a high GST is low marginal tax rates and low company tax rates. The business is profitable, but the more the profit the more GST, isn't that right. Example: Total sales in a Qtr = $150000 Total purchases = $80000 total GST  is $6363 add PAYGs another 3-4 gran, here is your share of $10K so seems like it's better if business produces less sales but increase it to 25%, you will be up to $30K seems reasonable? or am I missing something?

the gst you collect IS NOT YOURS ....you cannot spend it.

if you have trouble distinguishing between your money and GST, I'd suggest that at the end of every day, you take .11% of the days takings and put them into a seperate bank account. Come GST time, you'll be able to pay the gst ... depending on how much GST you've paid you may even have some left over that I'd suggest you leave there for when its time to pay your income tax.

If your income is not enough with the gst taken out, then it's simply not a very profitable business.

John Smith wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 7:38pm:

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 2:48pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 2:34pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 12:41pm: ok, here is the reality. Currently we are paying around 5k rent a month, 3k rent/mortgage, we are not holidaying or allowing ourselves any luxuries, we pretty much work for the kids education, roof over our heads, food, rent and ... yes, you guessed it 10% GSfknT! Now, normally we have to extend the GST repayments, as we constantly, and I mean forever living on credit, this vicious circle is scary, as our kids are still very young. The 10% is 5-6k out of our pockets every QTR, sometimes more, depends on the time of the year, and we struggle to pay. Not to mention Income tax! Should the 25% hit us, it will kills us and our business, leave us and our kids in the hands of fate. Next door business neighbours are already at this stage, the premises have been 'for lease' the last 6 months. It's unaffordable. But go on, why not, let's test it. The GST collected by your business should exceed the GST paid by your business unless your business is unprofitable.  The trade-off of a high GST is low marginal tax rates and low company tax rates. The business is profitable, but the more the profit the more GST, isn't that right. Example: Total sales in a Qtr = $150000 Total purchases = $80000 total GST  is $6363 add PAYGs another 3-4 gran, here is your share of $10K so seems like it's better if business produces less sales but increase it to 25%, you will be up to $30K seems reasonable? or am I missing something? the gst you collect IS NOT YOURS ....you cannot spend it. if you have trouble distinguishing between your money and GST, I'd suggest that at the end of every day, you take .11% of the days takings and put them into a seperate bank account. Come GST time, you'll be able to pay the gst ... depending on how much GST you've paid you may even have some left over that I'd suggest you leave there for when its time to pay your income tax. If your income is not enough with the gst taken out, then it's simply not a very profitable business.

I am not saying it's not enough, just saying that 25% is not possible, unless you remove all other taxes, but even then, I don't see how one can manage 30000 or so tax every quater?
The business is profitable, it's just not always possible to collect money before the payments are demanded, well, with our business anyway.
And by the time you've collected your share, your suppliers have put on stop credit, and taxation office is threatening you life or death.
So, with 25% is a definite DEATH

Not always possible in small business to put the net GST you collected aside, doesn’t take much more than a flat patch + higher expenses than normal. It is NOT like putting aside a proportion of your pay.

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:15pm:

Not always possible in small business to put the net GST you collected aside, doesn’t take much more than a flat patch + higher expenses than normal. It is NOT like putting aside a proportion of your pay.

exactly my point, thank you.
Business income is not the same as set wages, where you know when and how much. Although, couple of times we had to delay the wages...
well, what do you do if everything is going up like crazy, do you pay wages and switch off phones and electricity? how the heck do you run the business then?
With 25% you'd be on streets asking for help:
"please help, we need to cover taxes and wages"

what's the point having a business then?

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 8:16pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 7:38pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 2:48pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 2:34pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 12:41pm: ok, here is the reality. Currently we are paying around 5k rent a month, 3k rent/mortgage, we are not holidaying or allowing ourselves any luxuries, we pretty much work for the kids education, roof over our heads, food, rent and ... yes, you guessed it 10% GSfknT! Now, normally we have to extend the GST repayments, as we constantly, and I mean forever living on credit, this vicious circle is scary, as our kids are still very young. The 10% is 5-6k out of our pockets every QTR, sometimes more, depends on the time of the year, and we struggle to pay. Not to mention Income tax! Should the 25% hit us, it will kills us and our business, leave us and our kids in the hands of fate. Next door business neighbours are already at this stage, the premises have been 'for lease' the last 6 months. It's unaffordable. But go on, why not, let's test it. The GST collected by your business should exceed the GST paid by your business unless your business is unprofitable.  The trade-off of a high GST is low marginal tax rates and low company tax rates. The business is profitable, but the more the profit the more GST, isn't that right. Example: Total sales in a Qtr = $150000 Total purchases = $80000 total GST  is $6363 add PAYGs another 3-4 gran, here is your share of $10K so seems like it's better if business produces less sales but increase it to 25%, you will be up to $30K seems reasonable? or am I missing something? the gst you collect IS NOT YOURS ....you cannot spend it. if you have trouble distinguishing between your money and GST, I'd suggest that at the end of every day, you take .11% of the days takings and put them into a seperate bank account. Come GST time, you'll be able to pay the gst ... depending on how much GST you've paid you may even have some left over that I'd suggest you leave there for when its time to pay your income tax. If your income is not enough with the gst taken out, then it's simply not a very profitable business. I am not saying it's not enough, just saying that 25% is not possible, unless you remove all other taxes, but even then, I don't see how one can manage 30000 or so tax every quater? The business is profitable, it's just not always possible to collect money before the payments are demanded, well, with our business anyway. And by the time you've collected your share, your suppliers have put on stop credit, and taxation office is threatening you life or death. So, with 25% is a definite DEATH

it doesn't matter how much it is since you only ever pay it after you've collected it .. what sort of system are you using? Hire a book keeper, or if you have one, replace him/her with one who knows what they are doing.

The only affect increased GST may have is it will in the short term decrease demand for your products ... again, I say short term because in the long term, the consumer will get used to it and life will move one.

I'm not here advocating increasing GST to 25%, but your arguments for not doing so aren't making a lot of sense to me.

John Smith wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:30pm:

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 8:16pm: John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 7:38pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 2:48pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 2:34pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 12:41pm: ok, here is the reality. Currently we are paying around 5k rent a month, 3k rent/mortgage, we are not holidaying or allowing ourselves any luxuries, we pretty much work for the kids education, roof over our heads, food, rent and ... yes, you guessed it 10% GSfknT! Now, normally we have to extend the GST repayments, as we constantly, and I mean forever living on credit, this vicious circle is scary, as our kids are still very young. The 10% is 5-6k out of our pockets every QTR, sometimes more, depends on the time of the year, and we struggle to pay. Not to mention Income tax! Should the 25% hit us, it will kills us and our business, leave us and our kids in the hands of fate. Next door business neighbours are already at this stage, the premises have been 'for lease' the last 6 months. It's unaffordable. But go on, why not, let's test it. The GST collected by your business should exceed the GST paid by your business unless your business is unprofitable.  The trade-off of a high GST is low marginal tax rates and low company tax rates. The business is profitable, but the more the profit the more GST, isn't that right. Example: Total sales in a Qtr = $150000 Total purchases = $80000 total GST  is $6363 add PAYGs another 3-4 gran, here is your share of $10K so seems like it's better if business produces less sales but increase it to 25%, you will be up to $30K seems reasonable? or am I missing something? the gst you collect IS NOT YOURS ....you cannot spend it. if you have trouble distinguishing between your money and GST, I'd suggest that at the end of every day, you take .11% of the days takings and put them into a seperate bank account. Come GST time, you'll be able to pay the gst ... depending on how much GST you've paid you may even have some left over that I'd suggest you leave there for when its time to pay your income tax. If your income is not enough with the gst taken out, then it's simply not a very profitable business. I am not saying it's not enough, just saying that 25% is not possible, unless you remove all other taxes, but even then, I don't see how one can manage 30000 or so tax every quater? The business is profitable, it's just not always possible to collect money before the payments are demanded, well, with our business anyway. And by the time you've collected your share, your suppliers have put on stop credit, and taxation office is threatening you life or death. So, with 25% is a definite DEATH it doesn't matter how much it is since you only ever pay it after you've collected it .. what sort of system are you using? Hire a book keeper, or if you have one, replace him/her with one who knows what they are doing. The only affect increased GST may have is it will in the short term decrease demand for your products ... again, I say short term because in the long term, the consumer will get used to it and life will move one. I'm not here advocating increasing GST to 25%, but your arguments for not doing so aren't making a lot of sense to me.

no John, nothing to do with bookeeper, neither with understanding money vs GST...
you simply don't have any idea what small business is.
If it was so simple, many of these businesses would be operating until now, but what we are seeing is more and more closing down
Because rent, taxes and wages just don't make sense anymore, and you defend increase?
Short term?
Yeah, I will see you

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 3:37pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 3:00pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 2:43pm: ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 2:21pm: The GST was brought in so that they could lower the tax for the rich and the high income earners Amongst other reasons The GST was brought in to broaden the tax base as one counter to an inevitable declining tax payer base brought on by an aging population. The alternative is an income tax spiral or a debt spiral or more likely both. Ohhh BS!!!! The GST was brought in to recalibrate the tax burden so that high income earners could pay less income tax. All your spin wont change that fact  Yes that's the standard reply one get's from Truebelievers... ::) High income earners spend more.  GST is a tax on spending.  High income earners spend more and therefore pay more GST. The GST is regressive but therein is its effectiveness.  It gathers in tax revenues from areas that pre-GST were untaxed.  The black economy, tourist dollars, proceeds of crime even high profile tax evaders with hidden tax havens. In turn it's the down trodden citizens that get the MOST benefit out of the GST revenues.  The GST helps to fund the social services that they live off. Hewson's 15% GST would now be 20 years old.  Just how much more do you think that the Public Sector would have benefitted from 50% more GST revenue for the last 20 years Smarty Sparty?   ;D You Lefties dropped the ball in a spectacular fashion with that one.

High income earners spend more.  GST is a tax on spending.  High income earners spend more and therefore pay more GST.


High income earners save more (GST free) High income earners Invest more (GST free) and have more discretion on their spending in general. The GST introduction provided the biggest drop in tax on luxury goods.

High income earners pay GST on a lower percentage of their income.

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:34pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:30pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 8:16pm: John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 7:38pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 2:48pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 2:34pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 12:41pm: ok, here is the reality. Currently we are paying around 5k rent a month, 3k rent/mortgage, we are not holidaying or allowing ourselves any luxuries, we pretty much work for the kids education, roof over our heads, food, rent and ... yes, you guessed it 10% GSfknT! Now, normally we have to extend the GST repayments, as we constantly, and I mean forever living on credit, this vicious circle is scary, as our kids are still very young. The 10% is 5-6k out of our pockets every QTR, sometimes more, depends on the time of the year, and we struggle to pay. Not to mention Income tax! Should the 25% hit us, it will kills us and our business, leave us and our kids in the hands of fate. Next door business neighbours are already at this stage, the premises have been 'for lease' the last 6 months. It's unaffordable. But go on, why not, let's test it. The GST collected by your business should exceed the GST paid by your business unless your business is unprofitable.  The trade-off of a high GST is low marginal tax rates and low company tax rates. The business is profitable, but the more the profit the more GST, isn't that right. Example: Total sales in a Qtr = $150000 Total purchases = $80000 total GST  is $6363 add PAYGs another 3-4 gran, here is your share of $10K so seems like it's better if business produces less sales but increase it to 25%, you will be up to $30K seems reasonable? or am I missing something? the gst you collect IS NOT YOURS ....you cannot spend it. if you have trouble distinguishing between your money and GST, I'd suggest that at the end of every day, you take .11% of the days takings and put them into a seperate bank account. Come GST time, you'll be able to pay the gst ... depending on how much GST you've paid you may even have some left over that I'd suggest you leave there for when its time to pay your income tax. If your income is not enough with the gst taken out, then it's simply not a very profitable business. I am not saying it's not enough, just saying that 25% is not possible, unless you remove all other taxes, but even then, I don't see how one can manage 30000 or so tax every quater? The business is profitable, it's just not always possible to collect money before the payments are demanded, well, with our business anyway. And by the time you've collected your share, your suppliers have put on stop credit, and taxation office is threatening you life or death. So, with 25% is a definite DEATH it doesn't matter how much it is since you only ever pay it after you've collected it .. what sort of system are you using? Hire a book keeper, or if you have one, replace him/her with one who knows what they are doing. The only affect increased GST may have is it will in the short term decrease demand for your products ... again, I say short term because in the long term, the consumer will get used to it and life will move one. I'm not here advocating increasing GST to 25%, but your arguments for not doing so aren't making a lot of sense to me. no John, nothing to do with bookeeper, neither with understanding money vs GST... you simply don't have any idea what small business is. If it was so simple, many of these businesses would be operating until now, but what we are seeing is more and more closing down Because rent, taxes and wages just don't make sense anymore, and you defend increase? Short term? Yeah, I will see you

you claimed not possible to pay the money before you've collected it, not me.

it's just not always possible to collect money before the payments are demanded

By the way Torpedo, I've been in small business of one form or another since I was 27 ... so don't give me crap about I have no idea what small business is. Learn to manage your money instead of looking for excuses.

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:34pm:

Because rent, taxes and wages just don't make sense anymore, and you defend increase?

John Smith wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:30pm:

I'm not here advocating increasing GST to 25%, but your arguments for not doing so aren't making a lot of sense to me.

John Smith wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:39pm:

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:34pm: John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:30pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 8:16pm: John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 7:38pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 2:48pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 2:34pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 12:41pm: ok, here is the reality. Currently we are paying around 5k rent a month, 3k rent/mortgage, we are not holidaying or allowing ourselves any luxuries, we pretty much work for the kids education, roof over our heads, food, rent and ... yes, you guessed it 10% GSfknT! Now, normally we have to extend the GST repayments, as we constantly, and I mean forever living on credit, this vicious circle is scary, as our kids are still very young. The 10% is 5-6k out of our pockets every QTR, sometimes more, depends on the time of the year, and we struggle to pay. Not to mention Income tax! Should the 25% hit us, it will kills us and our business, leave us and our kids in the hands of fate. Next door business neighbours are already at this stage, the premises have been 'for lease' the last 6 months. It's unaffordable. But go on, why not, let's test it. The GST collected by your business should exceed the GST paid by your business unless your business is unprofitable.  The trade-off of a high GST is low marginal tax rates and low company tax rates. The business is profitable, but the more the profit the more GST, isn't that right. Example: Total sales in a Qtr = $150000 Total purchases = $80000 total GST  is $6363 add PAYGs another 3-4 gran, here is your share of $10K so seems like it's better if business produces less sales but increase it to 25%, you will be up to $30K seems reasonable? or am I missing something? the gst you collect IS NOT YOURS ....you cannot spend it. if you have trouble distinguishing between your money and GST, I'd suggest that at the end of every day, you take .11% of the days takings and put them into a seperate bank account. Come GST time, you'll be able to pay the gst ... depending on how much GST you've paid you may even have some left over that I'd suggest you leave there for when its time to pay your income tax. If your income is not enough with the gst taken out, then it's simply not a very profitable business. I am not saying it's not enough, just saying that 25% is not possible, unless you remove all other taxes, but even then, I don't see how one can manage 30000 or so tax every quater? The business is profitable, it's just not always possible to collect money before the payments are demanded, well, with our business anyway. And by the time you've collected your share, your suppliers have put on stop credit, and taxation office is threatening you life or death. So, with 25% is a definite DEATH it doesn't matter how much it is since you only ever pay it after you've collected it .. what sort of system are you using? Hire a book keeper, or if you have one, replace him/her with one who knows what they are doing. The only affect increased GST may have is it will in the short term decrease demand for your products ... again, I say short term because in the long term, the consumer will get used to it and life will move one. I'm not here advocating increasing GST to 25%, but your arguments for not doing so aren't making a lot of sense to me. no John, nothing to do with bookeeper, neither with understanding money vs GST... you simply don't have any idea what small business is. If it was so simple, many of these businesses would be operating until now, but what we are seeing is more and more closing down Because rent, taxes and wages just don't make sense anymore, and you defend increase? Short term? Yeah, I will see you you claimed not possible to pay the money before you've collected it, not me. it's just not always possible to collect money before the payments are demanded By the way Torpedo, I've been in small business of one form or another since I was 27 ... so don't give me crap about I have no idea what small business is. Learn to manage your money instead of looking for excuses.

go take another drink, piss head

John Smith wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:40pm:

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:34pm: Because rent, taxes and wages just don't make sense anymore, and you defend increase? John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:30pm: I'm not here advocating increasing GST to 25%, but your arguments for not doing so aren't making a lot of sense to me.

well, then what the bugger is you point?!?  :-X

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:15pm:

Not always possible in small business to put the net GST you collected aside, doesn’t take much more than a flat patch + higher expenses than normal. It is NOT like putting aside a proportion of your pay.

I disagree ... you can put it aside íf you want to, it's just treat it like a credit card and not do so. Not that I have a problem with that, I use my GST money for other expenses, it's cheaper than credit ... but I always make sure I have enough to pay the tax man when it's due

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:43pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:40pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:34pm: Because rent, taxes and wages just don't make sense anymore, and you defend increase? John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:30pm: I'm not here advocating increasing GST to 25%, but your arguments for not doing so aren't making a lot of sense to me. well, then what the bugger is you point?!?  :-X

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:42pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:39pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:34pm: John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:30pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 8:16pm: John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 7:38pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 2:48pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 2:34pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 12:41pm: ok, here is the reality. Currently we are paying around 5k rent a month, 3k rent/mortgage, we are not holidaying or allowing ourselves any luxuries, we pretty much work for the kids education, roof over our heads, food, rent and ... yes, you guessed it 10% GSfknT! Now, normally we have to extend the GST repayments, as we constantly, and I mean forever living on credit, this vicious circle is scary, as our kids are still very young. The 10% is 5-6k out of our pockets every QTR, sometimes more, depends on the time of the year, and we struggle to pay. Not to mention Income tax! Should the 25% hit us, it will kills us and our business, leave us and our kids in the hands of fate. Next door business neighbours are already at this stage, the premises have been 'for lease' the last 6 months. It's unaffordable. But go on, why not, let's test it. The GST collected by your business should exceed the GST paid by your business unless your business is unprofitable.  The trade-off of a high GST is low marginal tax rates and low company tax rates. The business is profitable, but the more the profit the more GST, isn't that right. Example: Total sales in a Qtr = $150000 Total purchases = $80000 total GST  is $6363 add PAYGs another 3-4 gran, here is your share of $10K so seems like it's better if business produces less sales but increase it to 25%, you will be up to $30K seems reasonable? or am I missing something? the gst you collect IS NOT YOURS ....you cannot spend it. if you have trouble distinguishing between your money and GST, I'd suggest that at the end of every day, you take .11% of the days takings and put them into a seperate bank account. Come GST time, you'll be able to pay the gst ... depending on how much GST you've paid you may even have some left over that I'd suggest you leave there for when its time to pay your income tax. If your income is not enough with the gst taken out, then it's simply not a very profitable business. I am not saying it's not enough, just saying that 25% is not possible, unless you remove all other taxes, but even then, I don't see how one can manage 30000 or so tax every quater? The business is profitable, it's just not always possible to collect money before the payments are demanded, well, with our business anyway. And by the time you've collected your share, your suppliers have put on stop credit, and taxation office is threatening you life or death. So, with 25% is a definite DEATH it doesn't matter how much it is since you only ever pay it after you've collected it .. what sort of system are you using? Hire a book keeper, or if you have one, replace him/her with one who knows what they are doing. The only affect increased GST may have is it will in the short term decrease demand for your products ... again, I say short term because in the long term, the consumer will get used to it and life will move one. I'm not here advocating increasing GST to 25%, but your arguments for not doing so aren't making a lot of sense to me. no John, nothing to do with bookeeper, neither with understanding money vs GST... you simply don't have any idea what small business is. If it was so simple, many of these businesses would be operating until now, but what we are seeing is more and more closing down Because rent, taxes and wages just don't make sense anymore, and you defend increase? Short term? Yeah, I will see you you claimed not possible to pay the money before you've collected it, not me. it's just not always possible to collect money before the payments are demanded By the way Torpedo, I've been in small business of one form or another since I was 27 ... so don't give me crap about I have no idea what small business is. Learn to manage your money instead of looking for excuses. go take another drink, piss head

???

I'll bet you my GST money you've had more to drink today than I have .... moron

good night to all trolls, enough for one day, just don't dream about the 25% GST, will you? you'll be at risk running a real-time nightmare

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:44pm:

good night to all trolls, enough for one day, just don't dream about the 25% GST, will you? you'll be at risk running a real-time nightmare

you should have done that earlier, you wouldn't have looked so stupid .....

John Smith wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:45pm:

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:44pm: good night to all trolls, enough for one day, just don't dream about the 25% GST, will you? you'll be at risk running a real-time nightmare you should have done that earlier, you wouldn't have looked so stupid .....

abrakadabra, see you in hell

John Smith wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:40pm:

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:34pm: Because rent, taxes and wages just don't make sense anymore, and you defend increase? John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:30pm: I'm not here advocating increasing GST to 25%, but your arguments for not doing so aren't making a lot of sense to me.

25% GST + 30% to 50% on pay + tax on petrol + tax on Cigarettes + tax on Alcohol + tax on almost everything else does not leave much.

Maybe easier to just direct debit your whole wage straight to the government.

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:47pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:45pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:44pm: good night to all trolls, enough for one day, just don't dream about the 25% GST, will you? you'll be at risk running a real-time nightmare you should have done that earlier, you wouldn't have looked so stupid ..... abrakadabra, see you in hell

nah, I won't go there ... I've paid my GST.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

John Smith wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:47pm:

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:47pm: John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:45pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:44pm: good night to all trolls, enough for one day, just don't dream about the 25% GST, will you? you'll be at risk running a real-time nightmare you should have done that earlier, you wouldn't have looked so stupid ..... abrakadabra, see you in hell nah, I won't go there ... I've paid my GST.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I didn't invite you, I demand you

Dnarever wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:47pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:40pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:34pm: Because rent, taxes and wages just don't make sense anymore, and you defend increase? John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:30pm: I'm not here advocating increasing GST to 25%, but your arguments for not doing so aren't making a lot of sense to me. 25% GST + 30% to 50% on pay + tax on petrol + tax on Cigarettes + tax on Alcohol + tax on almost everything else does not leave much. Maybe easier to just direct debit your whole wage straight to the government.

from the day you are born  ;D

Truebelieverland

Would it be much different from Swagtopia ???

Where one person dominates the market and has everything with everyone else bowing to him.

Dnarever wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:47pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:40pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:34pm: Because rent, taxes and wages just don't make sense anymore, and you defend increase? John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:30pm: I'm not here advocating increasing GST to 25%, but your arguments for not doing so aren't making a lot of sense to me. 25% GST + 30% to 50% on pay + tax on petrol + tax on Cigarettes + tax on Alcohol + tax on almost everything else does not leave much. Maybe easier to just direct debit your whole wage straight to the government.

The gst you collect running a business is not yours .... businesses don't pay GST, the end consumer does ... as the business in the middle of the chain, you are just an ad hoc tax collector working for the govt. for free.

John Smith wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:50pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:47pm: John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:40pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:34pm: Because rent, taxes and wages just don't make sense anymore, and you defend increase? John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:30pm: I'm not here advocating increasing GST to 25%, but your arguments for not doing so aren't making a lot of sense to me. 25% GST + 30% to 50% on pay + tax on petrol + tax on Cigarettes + tax on Alcohol + tax on almost everything else does not leave much. Maybe easier to just direct debit your whole wage straight to the government. The gst you collect running a business is not yours .... businesses don't pay GST, the end consumer does ... as the business in the middle of the chain, you are just an ad hoc tax collector working for the govt. for free.

Yes it is the end consumer I am talking about, if he is paying 70% tax or more then he can't afford the product or the tax and the business has no issue with managing the GST they don't collect.

sh!it, this reminds of some supermarket, where customer walks in and out and the business in the middle gets paid  ;D ;D
only some businesses in the middle get fked by everyone, including customer, who only pays when the job is done
don't forget the complaints, and crooks who want everything free
oh dear ;D ;D

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:44pm:

good night to all trolls, enough for one day, just don't dream about the 25% GST, will you? you'll be at risk running a real-time nightmare

No worries Torp.

In Coalition-Land it wouldn't be an issue as business owners would have had plenty of first class education on how to best manage businesses (paid for from the 25% GST) and cash flow issues wouldn't be a problem x.. ;)

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:48pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:47pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:47pm: John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:45pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:44pm: good night to all trolls, enough for one day, just don't dream about the 25% GST, will you? you'll be at risk running a real-time nightmare you should have done that earlier, you wouldn't have looked so stupid ..... abrakadabra, see you in hell nah, I won't go there ... I've paid my GST.  ;D ;D ;D ;D I didn't invite you, I demand you

I'm not sure what you're so upset about, regardless, you might be able to demand something from your kids, but you wouldn't want to try it on with me, you might get to hell a lot sooner than you otherwise planned too.

Dnarever wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:53pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:50pm: Dnarever wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:47pm: John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:40pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:34pm: Because rent, taxes and wages just don't make sense anymore, and you defend increase? John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:30pm: I'm not here advocating increasing GST to 25%, but your arguments for not doing so aren't making a lot of sense to me. 25% GST + 30% to 50% on pay + tax on petrol + tax on Cigarettes + tax on Alcohol + tax on almost everything else does not leave much. Maybe easier to just direct debit your whole wage straight to the government. The gst you collect running a business is not yours .... businesses don't pay GST, the end consumer does ... as the business in the middle of the chain, you are just an ad hoc tax collector working for the govt. for free. Yes it is the end consumer I am talking about, if he is paying 70% tax or more then he can't afford the product or the tax and the business has no issue with managing the GST they don't collect.

we survive the same way we've always done it .... we adapt ...

The only way GST would go up to 25% would be with a substantial lowering of income tax. Plus, I would hope it would also mean a decline in some state taxes such as stamp duty (one can only hope) nevertheless, however they did it, we would survive and adapt.

Norway has a GST (VAT) at $25%, and a high income tax, and they continually outshine us as having the highest standard of living

John Smith wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:59pm:

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:48pm: John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:47pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:47pm: John Smith wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:45pm: Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:44pm: good night to all trolls, enough for one day, just don't dream about the 25% GST, will you? you'll be at risk running a real-time nightmare you should have done that earlier, you wouldn't have looked so stupid ..... abrakadabra, see you in hell nah, I won't go there ... I've paid my GST.  ;D ;D ;D ;D I didn't invite you, I demand you I'm not sure what you're so upset about, regardless, you might be able to demand something from your kids, but you wouldn't want to try it on with me, you might get to hell a lot sooner than you otherwise planned too.

That's ok, we'll see each other in it.

Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:56pm:

Torpedo wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:44pm: good night to all trolls, enough for one day, just don't dream about the 25% GST, will you? you'll be at risk running a real-time nightmare No worries Torp. In Coalition-Land it wouldn't be an issue as business owners would have had plenty of first class education on how to best manage businesses (paid for from the 25% GST) and cash flow issues wouldn't be a problem x.. ;)

Well, since you are implying you are pretty smart making such an incredible proposal for 25%, show the trick, how do you pay 90k per year, 60k rent, 80k wages, other taxes, essentials for survival?
Do you propose to always run at loss? On credit?
Where are these smart people, why so many giving up and choosing wages vs business?

I bet you don't have any answers apart from: "you stupid, you idiot, yes you are, yea you are" like in a kindy
Anything constructive?

Go visit a CPA

Swagman wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 8:09pm:

Go visit a CPA

Good idea Swaggy and perhaps whilst YOU ARE THERE, you could get enlightened on the following & come back with some answers?


perceptions_now wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 11:56am:

Swagman wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 11:40am: perceptions_now wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 11:31am: So Swaggy, IF the Capitalist way is so good, THEN WHY are the results of its "leaders", so CRAPPY? That's an easy one because  as the story says...... Quote: The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to Those that pay the majority of tax are in the minority.  Government is in the hands of the Freeloaders. The Countries that are deep in public debt have been maintaining living standards by maxing the credit card instead of balancing the books. Why go without when you have a credit card to hit.  Labor's motto... ;D And as the Iron Lady said...."the trouble with socialism is that you always run out of other people's money"..... :( In fact, I referred to the Capitalist "Leaders" of the USA & Japan, they are the ones in "DEEP DEBT", whilst the "Socialists" in Norway are in a MUCH, MUCH BETTER POSITION! It is not just a simple matter of the Left is CRAP & the Right is GREAT! In fact, most Politicians around the Globe, on both the Right & Left have done a poor long term job, over at least the last 50-60 years! But, the "true Believers", from both Left & Right", are stuck in their own mire/mess & are unlikely to admit, THEIR SIDE STUFFED THINGS UP!

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 8:22pm:

Good idea Swaggy and perhaps whilst YOU ARE THERE, you could get enlightened on the following & come back with some answers?

What's the question again?   :-?

Swagman wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 9:08pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 8:22pm: Good idea Swaggy and perhaps whilst YOU ARE THERE, you could get enlightened on the following & come back with some answers? What's the question again?   :-?

So Swaggy, IF the Capitalist way is so good, THEN WHY are the results of its "leaders", so CRAPPY?


perceptions_now wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 11:31am:

Swagman wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 11:23am: St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 10:52am: Unlike here where the GSt was used to transfer money to the rich The GST goes to the States George.  It's supposed to fund State responsibilities like education & hospitals. Therefore any increase in GST has to be a boost to such services.  The GST should be increased as an alternative to increasing interest rates.  So Swaggy, IF the Capitalist way is so good, THEN WHY are the results of its "leaders", so CRAPPY? perceptions_now wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 6:52pm: perceptions_now wrote on Jan 25th, 2014 at 3:48pm: No matter what the true Party Political believers on both sides of Politics may believe, there is little to no truth in rumours spread by those "who believe" that one or another side of Politics is inherently better or worse than the other. The truth is that the real test for both Political & Economic systems, is that of outcomes & not just outcomes, But LONG TERM OUTCOMES, BOTH ECONOMIC & THE HUMANITIES! Unfortunately, most Politicians & Political Party's, over a considerable length of time, both here in OZ & in most other countries, have failed to pass this test! A quick look at Reality shows a "somewhat" different picture, to PR slogans painted by Politicians. In broad terms, the USA & Japan are painted as Capitalist countries, whilst Norway would generally come under Socialism, as it has major Public ownership of various major business entities & it provides considerable Services to the Public, including Medical  & Retirement Benefits, But it also applies quite high Taxes. But, the current Economic outcomes can only be described as "interesting, including a comparison to OZ - 1) Japan - 212% Debt to GDP Ratio 2) USA - 102% Debt to GDP Ratio 3) Norway - 28% Debt to GDP Ratio    4) Australia - 21% Debt to GDP Ratio http://www.tradingeconomics.com/country-list/government-debt-to-gdp So, the leading Capitalist countries are actually in Debt, BIG TIME, whilst both Norway & Australia actually have quite modest Debt. But, it doesn't finish there, because Australia also has an $80 Billion Future fund, which is some 5% o its GDP, which is ok, But the big winners are the Norwegians who have a "Future Fund" now sitting around $900 Billion, which is approaching 200% of their GDP. So, like I said, IT'S ABOUT OUTCOMES & LONG TERM OUTCOMES AT THAT!

What's the question again?   :-?

Swagman wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 8:09pm:

Go visit a CPA

Communist Party of Australia?

Swagman wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 9:21pm:

What's the question again?   :-?

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 9:19pm:

So Swaggy, IF the Capitalist way is so good, THEN WHY are the results of its "leaders", so CRAPPY?

Frances wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 9:27pm:

Communist Party of Australia

Nah they changed their name to the Greens...

John Smith wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 9:27pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 9:21pm: What's the question again?   :-? perceptions_now wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 9:19pm: So Swaggy, IF the Capitalist way is so good, THEN WHY are the results of its "leaders", so CRAPPY?

..answered in reply # 75 but repeated for your benefit below...


Swagman wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 11:40am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 11:31am: So Swaggy, IF the Capitalist way is so good, THEN WHY are the results of its "leaders", so CRAPPY? That's an easy one because  as the story says...... Quote: The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to Those that pay the majority of tax are in the minority.  Government is in the hands of the Freeloaders. The Countries that are deep in public debt have been maintaining living standards by maxing the credit card instead of balancing the books. Why go without when you have a credit card to hit.  Labor's motto... ;D And as the Iron Lady said...."the trouble with socialism is that you always run out of other people's money"..... :(

Swagman is a perfect example of someone with limited intelligence and far too much time on his hands.

I recommend crochet as a useful hobby.

Peter Freedman wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 9:59pm:

Swagman is a perfect example of someone with limited intelligence and far too much time on his hands. I recommend crochet as a useful hobby.

So says the bloke who posts twice as much as me.... :D

Swagman wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 9:47pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 9:27pm: Swagman wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 9:21pm: What's the question again?   :-? perceptions_now wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 9:19pm: So Swaggy, IF the Capitalist way is so good, THEN WHY are the results of its "leaders", so CRAPPY? ..answered in reply # 75 but repeated for your benefit below... Swagman wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 11:40am: perceptions_now wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 11:31am: So Swaggy, IF the Capitalist way is so good, THEN WHY are the results of its "leaders", so CRAPPY? That's an easy one because  as the story says...... Quote: The Coalitionlanders have lots of cash though because they no longer had any freeloaders  to hand out funds to Those that pay the majority of tax are in the minority.  Government is in the hands of the Freeloaders. The Countries that are deep in public debt have been maintaining living standards by maxing the credit card instead of balancing the books. Why go without when you have a credit card to hit.  Labor's motto... ;D And as the Iron Lady said...."the trouble with socialism is that you always run out of other people's money"..... :(

thats not a reason, thats just another bitch session by you .... capitalism hasn't worked, accept it and move on