There seems to be some problem on the Environment Board with concerns about bans and 'honest debate.'

On matters of climate change and global warning, I have no fixed position as I am ignorant of the science.  I therefore would not be able to come to any conclusion about what is or is not 'honest debate,' as others claim to be able.

So, whoever wants to.....fell free to have a ban free (well, within the usual limits) discussion here, and you'll be quite safe from arbitrary judgements about what is 'honest' and what is not, 'cause I wouldn't know!

:)

"Russian Scientists say period of global cooling ahead due to changes in the sun"

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/04/29/russian-scientists-say-period-of-global-cooling-ahead-due-to-changes-in-the-sun/


http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-mars-has-global-warming-but-without-a-greenhouse-and-without-the-participation-of-martians-these-khabibullo-abdusamatov-205157.jpg

Actually how would they know if there was participation of martians or not?

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:44pm:

Actually how would they know if there was participation of martians or not? SOB

They don't know, for sure.

Just as we don't know, for sure, that humans are contributing to global warming on Earth.


http://archive.the-spine.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/mars.jpg

Sounds about right. Greggarypeccary thinks that Curiosity has 4 wheels, and he'd probably argue that we don't know for sure.

It's a 6x6 Independent All Wheel Drive. (And it uses nuclear power)

muso wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 4:18pm:

CUriosity is not a 4 x 4. It's a 6 x 6 AWD.

I guess Martians aren't rev heads.

Or, perhaps they have a different numbering system to us.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 4:20pm:

muso wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 4:18pm: CUriosity is not a 4 x 4. It's a 6 x 6 AWD. I guess Martians aren't rev heads. Or, perhaps they have a different numbering system to us.

OK, if that's your standard, I rest my case. You think it has 4 wheels, not 6.

It's not easy being green.

muso wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 4:22pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 4:20pm: muso wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 4:18pm: CUriosity is not a 4 x 4. It's a 6 x 6 AWD. I guess Martians aren't rev heads. Or, perhaps they have a different numbering system to us. OK, if that's your standard, I rest my case. You think it has 4 wheels, not 6. It's not easy being green.

I didn't make the picture, numbnuts.

::)

http://www.sott.net/image/image/s5/113579/full/global_warming_on_mars_postcar.jpg

Aussie wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 2:06pm:

On matters of climate change and global warning, I have no fixed position as I am ignorant of the science.

If only others were as honest as you.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/08/article-2259012-16D12C54000005DC-203_306x423.jpg

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 4:26pm:

muso wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 4:22pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 4:20pm: muso wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 4:18pm: CUriosity is not a 4 x 4. It's a 6 x 6 AWD. I guess Martians aren't rev heads. Or, perhaps they have a different numbering system to us. OK, if that's your standard, I rest my case. You think it has 4 wheels, not 6. It's not easy being green. I didn't make the picture, numbnuts. ::)

No No.  You just posted it, so you obviously agreed with the sentiment. I'm not very inventive when it comes to mindless name calling... er testicles deprived of physical sensation (will that do?)

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 4:27pm:

http://www.sott.net/image/image/s5/113579/full/global_warming_on_mars_postcar.jpg

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

The following picture shows a tree taken in 2003 and 2007 (right).  I guess that you'd state (in your capacity as honest greggary - an unbiased observer of course) that this proves global cooling  ;D ;D ;D

You are so funny.

---

muso wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 5:04pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 4:26pm: muso wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 4:22pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 4:20pm: muso wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 4:18pm: CUriosity is not a 4 x 4. It's a 6 x 6 AWD. I guess Martians aren't rev heads. Or, perhaps they have a different numbering system to us. OK, if that's your standard, I rest my case. You think it has 4 wheels, not 6. It's not easy being green. I didn't make the picture, numbnuts. ::) No No.  You just posted it, so you obviously agreed with the sentiment.

Yes, that's right.

I think there are green men on mars complaining about vehicles from Earth being sent to their planet.

I also believe that these green men speak English.  They can't count very well, and they don't understand what 4-wheel drive is, however, they can speak English perfectly well.

Have another drink, muso.


http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/glenn-close-drunk.gif

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 5:44pm:

Yes, that's right. I think there are green men on mars complaining about vehicles from Earth being sent to their planet. I also believe that these green men speak English.  They can't count very well, and they don't understand what 4-wheel drive is, however, they can speak English perfectly well.

Really? You believe that? Well that explains everything.

muso wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 5:52pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 5:44pm: Yes, that's right. I think there are green men on mars complaining about vehicles from Earth being sent to their planet. I also believe that these green men speak English.  They can't count very well, and they don't understand what 4-wheel drive is, however, they can speak English perfectly well. Really? You believe that? Well that explains everything.

Irony perhaps Muso?????

muso wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 5:10pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 4:27pm: http://www.sott.net/image/image/s5/113579/full/global_warming_on_mars_postcar.jpg ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D The following picture shows a tree taken in 2003 and 2007 (right).  I guess that you'd state (in your capacity as honest greggary - an unbiased observer of course) that this proves global cooling  ;D ;D ;D You are so funny.

Let's examine this a little closer, shall we?

I posted a picture of an entire planet, with a time lapse of 34 years.

You posted a picture of a ... tree, with a time lapse of 4 years.

Are you starting to see why AGW cult members can't be taken seriously, muso?

This is the sort of sloppy posting I'd expect from #.  I expected much better from you.

Anyway, enjoy the drinks.

You are so funny.

Cheers.

muso wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 5:04pm:

I'm not very inventive when it comes to mindless name calling... er testicles deprived of physical sensation (will that do?)

Join the club Muso. When an inarticulate poster bombards me with obscenities instead of addressing the content of my post - I draw a total blank trying to come up with something equally as unpleasant to say back to them. Some of us just haven't got it in us.  :)


muso wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 5:10pm:

The following picture shows a tree taken in 2003 and 2007 (right).  I guess that you'd state (in your capacity as honest greggary - an unbiased observer of course) that this proves global cooling  Grin Grin

Like Aussie - I don't understand the science and try to stay out of the GW debates, but your pictures of the extreme changes to a tree is something I can recognise in my own garden, although not to the same degree. The seasons are coming later and don't seem as intense as they used to be aside from this summer which has seemed a lot hotter than perhaps the last 5 summers, but certainly not the hottest summer we've had in the last couple of decades.

The plants are flowering later and although this is a little thing, when the bees arrived around Christmas - there were no flowers in bloom and I found dozens of dying bees.

Perhaps there was a simple explanation, but the tiny closed buds the bees were trying to pollinate were at least 6 weeks behind in development so they couldn't access the nectar. Birds are nesting later also - so I can see the changes, but perhaps this is a natural occurrence every hundred or even a thousand years.

We don't have records going back far enough to confirm this though.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/summer-winter.jpg

Same scene....different Season?

Aussie wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 8:50pm:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/summer-winter.jpg Same scene....different Season?

Seasons.  Weather.  Climate.  Truth.  Lies.

It's all too confusing for those in the AGW cult.

Such is life.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 6:27pm:

muso wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 5:10pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 4:27pm: http://www.sott.net/image/image/s5/113579/full/global_warming_on_mars_postcar.jpg ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D The following picture shows a tree taken in 2003 and 2007 (right).  I guess that you'd state (in your capacity as honest greggary - an unbiased observer of course) that this proves global cooling  ;D ;D ;D You are so funny. Let's examine this a little closer, shall we? I posted a picture of an entire planet, with a time lapse of 34 years. You posted a picture of a ... tree, with a time lapse of 4 years. Are you starting to see why AGW cult members can't be taken seriously, muso? This is the sort of sloppy posting I'd expect from #.  I expected much better from you. Anyway, enjoy the drinks. You are so funny. Cheers.

OK laughing boy. As usual, you miss the entire point. Now you tell us about the seasons on Mars to back up your little ruse.

Do they have summers and Winters just the same as on Earth? - caused by that tilt in its axis. Are you comparing apples with apples?


greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:16pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 8:50pm: http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/summer-winter.jpg Same scene....different Season? Seasons.  Weather.  Climate.  Truth.  Lies. It's all too confusing for those in the AGW cult. Such is life.

It is obviously too confusing for you. You think that a single snapshot in one year compared to a single snapshot in another year somehow tells us something about climate.

The tree picture also shows two snapshots. It doesn't tells us anything about climate either. It wouldn't matter if it was taken on the same calendar day. The climate is not exactly the same from year to year. It wouldn't matter if the pictures were separated by 200 years. Two snapshots tell us nothing.

I don't actually expect you to understand that of course.

Aussie wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 8:50pm:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/summer-winter.jpg Same scene....different Season?

- and the Mars pictures?

muso wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:44pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 6:27pm: muso wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 5:10pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 4:27pm: http://www.sott.net/image/image/s5/113579/full/global_warming_on_mars_postcar.jpg ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D The following picture shows a tree taken in 2003 and 2007 (right).  I guess that you'd state (in your capacity as honest greggary - an unbiased observer of course) that this proves global cooling  ;D ;D ;D You are so funny. Let's examine this a little closer, shall we? I posted a picture of an entire planet, with a time lapse of 34 years. You posted a picture of a ... tree, with a time lapse of 4 years. Are you starting to see why AGW cult members can't be taken seriously, muso? This is the sort of sloppy posting I'd expect from #.  I expected much better from you. Anyway, enjoy the drinks. You are so funny. Cheers. OK laughing boy. As usual, you miss the entire point. Now you tell us about the seasons on Mars to back up your little ruse. Do they have summers and Winters just the same as on Earth? - caused by that tilt in its axis. Are you comparing apples with apples? greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:16pm: Aussie wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 8:50pm: http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/summer-winter.jpg Same scene....different Season? Seasons.  Weather.  Climate.  Truth.  Lies. It's all too confusing for those in the AGW cult. Such is life. It is obviously too confusing for you. You think that a single snapshot in one year compared to a single snapshot in another year somehow tells us something about climate. The tree picture also shows two snapshots. It doesn't tells us anything about climate either. It wouldn't matter if it was taken on the same calendar day. The climate is not exactly the same from year to year. It wouldn't matter if the pictures were separated by 200 years. Two snapshots tell us nothing. I don't actually expect you to understand that of course.

All you had to say was "sorry greg, I know AGW is a lame theory".

Your tree picture showed you up for the fool that you are.

There's no going back now.

Better luck next time.

Cheers.

muso wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:45pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 8:50pm: http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/summer-winter.jpg Same scene....different Season? - and the Mars pictures?

Seem to be the same season, the left photo was taken July 31st 1969 and the right photo August 27th 2003 (as near as I can find out in 5 minutes anyway)

muso wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 9:44pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 6:27pm: muso wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 5:10pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 4:27pm: http://www.sott.net/image/image/s5/113579/full/global_warming_on_mars_postcar.jpg ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D The following picture shows a tree taken in 2003 and 2007 (right).  I guess that you'd state (in your capacity as honest greggary - an unbiased observer of course) that this proves global cooling  ;D ;D ;D You are so funny. Let's examine this a little closer, shall we? I posted a picture of an entire planet, with a time lapse of 34 years. You posted a picture of a ... tree, with a time lapse of 4 years. Are you starting to see why AGW cult members can't be taken seriously, muso? This is the sort of sloppy posting I'd expect from #.  I expected much better from you. Anyway, enjoy the drinks. You are so funny. Cheers. OK laughing boy. As usual, you miss the entire point. Now you tell us about the seasons on Mars to back up your little ruse. Do they have summers and Winters just the same as on Earth? - caused by that tilt in its axis. Are you comparing apples with apples? greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:16pm: Aussie wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 8:50pm: http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/summer-winter.jpg Same scene....different Season? Seasons.  Weather.  Climate.  Truth.  Lies. It's all too confusing for those in the AGW cult. Such is life. It is obviously too confusing for you. You think that a single snapshot in one year compared to a single snapshot in another year somehow tells us something about climate. The tree picture also shows two snapshots. It doesn't tells us anything about climate either. It wouldn't matter if it was taken on the same calendar day. The climate is not exactly the same from year to year. It wouldn't matter if the pictures were separated by 200 years. Two snapshots tell us nothing. I don't actually expect you to understand that of course.

Seasons.  Weather.  Climate.  Truth.  Lies.

It's all too confusing for those in the AGW cult.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 12:10am:

muso wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:44pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 6:27pm: muso wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 5:10pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 4:27pm: http://www.sott.net/image/image/s5/113579/full/global_warming_on_mars_postcar.jpg ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D The following picture shows a tree taken in 2003 and 2007 (right).  I guess that you'd state (in your capacity as honest greggary - an unbiased observer of course) that this proves global cooling  ;D ;D ;D You are so funny. Let's examine this a little closer, shall we? I posted a picture of an entire planet, with a time lapse of 34 years. You posted a picture of a ... tree, with a time lapse of 4 years. Are you starting to see why AGW cult members can't be taken seriously, muso? This is the sort of sloppy posting I'd expect from #.  I expected much better from you. Anyway, enjoy the drinks. You are so funny. Cheers. OK laughing boy. As usual, you miss the entire point. Now you tell us about the seasons on Mars to back up your little ruse. Do they have summers and Winters just the same as on Earth? - caused by that tilt in its axis. Are you comparing apples with apples? greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:16pm: Aussie wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 8:50pm: http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/summer-winter.jpg Same scene....different Season? Seasons.  Weather.  Climate.  Truth.  Lies. It's all too confusing for those in the AGW cult. Such is life. It is obviously too confusing for you. You think that a single snapshot in one year compared to a single snapshot in another year somehow tells us something about climate. The tree picture also shows two snapshots. It doesn't tells us anything about climate either. It wouldn't matter if it was taken on the same calendar day. The climate is not exactly the same from year to year. It wouldn't matter if the pictures were separated by 200 years. Two snapshots tell us nothing. I don't actually expect you to understand that of course. Seasons.  Weather.  Climate.  Truth.  Lies. It's all too confusing for those in the AGW cult.

What do you mean mr Greggy?

Please elaborate upon your sentence!

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 4:19am:

What do you mean mr Greggy? Please elaborate upon your sentence!

Ask Death_Rides_a_Horse. He's more coherent.

Chimp - This is the climate according to Greggary:

It's the sun! The sun caused it.

... but what about carbon pollution?

Well, there wouldn't be any life if it wasn't for the sun. Human beings are life. Human beings cause carbon pollution, so It's the sun!!!! (chortle)

... and the sun is .... just a hypothesis. Everything is a hypothesis. Greggory is a hypothesis.


Reductio ad Gregorium. 

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 12:08am:

muso wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:45pm: Aussie wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 8:50pm: http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/summer-winter.jpg Same scene....different Season? - and the Mars pictures? Seem to be the same season, the left photo was taken July 31st 1969 and the right photo August 27th 2003 (as near as I can find out in 5 minutes anyway)

What season would that be?

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 12:07am:

All you had to say was "sorry greg, I know AGW is a lame theory". Your tree picture showed you up for the fool that you are. There's no going back now. Better luck next time. Cheers.

The point is that you know virtually nothing about Mars.  Mars and Earth are like chalk and cheese.

muso wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 7:54am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 12:08am: muso wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:45pm: Aussie wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 8:50pm: http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/summer-winter.jpg Same scene....different Season? - and the Mars pictures? Seem to be the same season, the left photo was taken July 31st 1969 and the right photo August 27th 2003 (as near as I can find out in 5 minutes anyway) What season would that be?

Not a clue, don't know what the seasons on Mars are called or when they take place.
But given that one is July and the other August, the summer/winter excuse you used with the tree photo doesn't work on the Mars photos.

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 4:19am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 12:10am: muso wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:44pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 6:27pm: muso wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 5:10pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 4:27pm: http://www.sott.net/image/image/s5/113579/full/global_warming_on_mars_postcar.jpg ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D The following picture shows a tree taken in 2003 and 2007 (right).  I guess that you'd state (in your capacity as honest greggary - an unbiased observer of course) that this proves global cooling  ;D ;D ;D You are so funny. Let's examine this a little closer, shall we? I posted a picture of an entire planet, with a time lapse of 34 years. You posted a picture of a ... tree, with a time lapse of 4 years. Are you starting to see why AGW cult members can't be taken seriously, muso? This is the sort of sloppy posting I'd expect from #.  I expected much better from you. Anyway, enjoy the drinks. You are so funny. Cheers. OK laughing boy. As usual, you miss the entire point. Now you tell us about the seasons on Mars to back up your little ruse. Do they have summers and Winters just the same as on Earth? - caused by that tilt in its axis. Are you comparing apples with apples? greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 9:16pm: Aussie wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 8:50pm: http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/summer-winter.jpg Same scene....different Season? Seasons.  Weather.  Climate.  Truth.  Lies. It's all too confusing for those in the AGW cult. Such is life. It is obviously too confusing for you. You think that a single snapshot in one year compared to a single snapshot in another year somehow tells us something about climate. The tree picture also shows two snapshots. It doesn't tells us anything about climate either. It wouldn't matter if it was taken on the same calendar day. The climate is not exactly the same from year to year. It wouldn't matter if the pictures were separated by 200 years. Two snapshots tell us nothing. I don't actually expect you to understand that of course. Seasons.  Weather.  Climate.  Truth.  Lies. It's all too confusing for those in the AGW cult. What do you mean mr Greggy? Please elaborate upon your sentence!

Case in point.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 4:27pm:

http://www.sott.net/image/image/s5/113579/full/global_warming_on_mars_postcar.jpg

So Greggery, what do these pictures of Mars reveal about the Mars Climate & why?

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 9:52am:

Not a clue, don't know what the seasons on Mars are called or when they take place. But given that one is July and the other August, the summer/winter excuse you used with the tree photo doesn't work on the Mars photos.

Ahem. For a start, the Martian year is about 2 Earth years (687 Earth days). Earth-based calendar months don't line up with seasons on Mars.

The Martian Southern summer coincides with Perihelion - the closest point to the sun.  The Perihelion is 28% closer to the sun than the Aphelion. With the Earth, it's only 4 %.

The point I was making is that you can't just take two snapshots of Mars 30 years apart and draw any useful conclusions.

In fact, there is no evidence of any decadal global warming pattern on Mars.

Because of its orbital fluctuations, the climate of Mars is very chaotic.   

The graph shows a few other observations which puts paid to the rumour that Mars is undergoing decadal scale global warming. 

I didn't explain this straight away, because as usual, I wanted to see how silly the responses would be.

If you want to know more about Mars, join the Mars Society of Australasia. I've been a member for the last 10 years (as of March this year, or just after the first Mars Exploration Rover landed).
http://marssociety.org.au/

---

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 11:01am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 4:27pm: http://www.sott.net/image/image/s5/113579/full/global_warming_on_mars_postcar.jpg So Greggery, what do these pictures of Mars reveal about the Mars Climate & why?

I will be having my eyelids held open with surgical tape so I don't miss any of that response :)

(Marg Downey - SBS spoof announcer in Fast Forward)

muso wrote on Jan 27^th, 2014 at 11:24am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 9:52am: Not a clue, don't know what the seasons on Mars are called or when they take place. But given that one is July and the other August, the summer/winter excuse you used with the tree photo doesn't work on the Mars photos. Ahem. For a start, the Martian year is about 2 Earth years (687 Earth days). Earth-based calendar months don't line up with seasons on Mars. The Martian Southern summer coincides with Perihelion - the closest point to the sun.  The Perihelion is 28% closer to the sun than the Aphelion. With the Earth, it's only 4 %. The point I was making is that you can't just take two snapshots of Mars 30 years apart and draw any useful conclusions. In fact, there is no evidence of any decadal global warming pattern on Mars. Because of its orbital fluctuations, the climate of Mars is very chaotic.    The graph shows a few other observations which puts paid to the rumour that Mars is undergoing decadal scale global warming.  I didn't explain this straight away, because as usual, I wanted to see how silly the responses would be. If you want to know more about Mars, join the Mars Society of Australasia. I've been a member for the last 10 years (as of March this year, or just after the first Mars Exploration Rover landed). http://marssociety.org.au/

I'm aware of the orbital period of Mars ( and have been since I was a child). Nasa disagrees with you about the global warming on Mars.
Given that the seasons on Mars are about twice the length of seasons on Earth, a range of a month between the photos would/should put them both within the same season so the 30 year gap is a very good indicator for any changes.

Something is causing the surface temps on Mars to rise, and something is causing the surface temps on Earth to rise. Simply logic (Occam's Razor???) would suggest that there is a link between the two events.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 8:59am:

muso wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 11:24am: gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 9:52am: Not a clue, don't know what the seasons on Mars are called or when they take place. But given that one is July and the other August, the summer/winter excuse you used with the tree photo doesn't work on the Mars photos. Ahem. For a start, the Martian year is about 2 Earth years (687 Earth days). Earth-based calendar months don't line up with seasons on Mars. The Martian Southern summer coincides with Perihelion - the closest point to the sun.  The Perihelion is 28% closer to the sun than the Aphelion. With the Earth, it's only 4 %. The point I was making is that you can't just take two snapshots of Mars 30 years apart and draw any useful conclusions. In fact, there is no evidence of any decadal global warming pattern on Mars. Because of its orbital fluctuations, the climate of Mars is very chaotic.    The graph shows a few other observations which puts paid to the rumour that Mars is undergoing decadal scale global warming.  I didn't explain this straight away, because as usual, I wanted to see how silly the responses would be. If you want to know more about Mars, join the Mars Society of Australasia. I've been a member for the last 10 years (as of March this year, or just after the first Mars Exploration Rover landed). http://marssociety.org.au/ I'm aware of the orbital period of Mars ( and have been since I was a child). Nasa disagrees with you about the global warming on Mars. Given that the seasons on Mars are about twice the length of seasons on Earth, a range of a month between the photos would/should put them both within the same season so the 30 year gap is a very good indicator for any changes. Something is causing the surface temps on Mars to rise, and something is causing the surface temps on Earth to rise. Simply logic (Occam's Razor???) would suggest that there is a link between the two events.

The concept of a year and seasons is totally different.. plus with a smaller mass and closer relationship to Jupiter and Saturn I wouldn't recommend getting too excited with comparisons to earth... how many moons does mars have btw?

On earth carbon falls into and comes back out of a carbon sink called water which is no small difference between the two planets  8-) 8-)

-->the differences are exponentially large!!

Saying that I find the concept of a link between both planets experiencing rising temps obviously interesting if infact it's a fact... and wouldn't mind getting an answer as to why!! 8-)

mantra wrote on Jan 26^th, 2014 at 8:23pm:

muso wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 5:04pm: I'm not very inventive when it comes to mindless name calling... er testicles deprived of physical sensation (will that do?) Join the club Muso. When an inarticulate poster bombards me with obscenities instead of addressing the content of my post - I draw a total blank trying to come up with something equally as unpleasant to say back to them. Some of us just haven't got it in us.  :) muso wrote on Jan 26th, 2014 at 5:10pm: The following picture shows a tree taken in 2003 and 2007 (right).  I guess that you'd state (in your capacity as honest greggary - an unbiased observer of course) that this proves global cooling  Grin Grin Like Aussie - I don't understand the science and try to stay out of the GW debates, but your pictures of the extreme changes to a tree is something I can recognise in my own garden, although not to the same degree. The seasons are coming later and don't seem as intense as they used to be aside from this summer which has seemed a lot hotter than perhaps the last 5 summers, but certainly not the hottest summer we've had in the last couple of decades. The plants are flowering later and although this is a little thing, when the bees arrived around Christmas - there were no flowers in bloom and I found dozens of dying bees. Perhaps there was a simple explanation, but the tiny closed buds the bees were trying to pollinate were at least 6 weeks behind in development so they couldn't access the nectar. Birds are nesting later also - so I can see the changes, but perhaps this is a natural occurrence every hundred or even a thousand years. We don't have records going back far enough to confirm this though.

It's always a measurement problem in science: the uncertainty principle!

Is a piece of string 10.1 cm or 10.0905847328 cm  :D :D
???

Some would say who cares... such people are flim-flam men.

Who says a 0.6 degree rise in temp means nothing special: it depends how fast that happens: you are measuring two dimensions there - the temp and the time taken for the temp change- and errors of measurement can occur in both dimensions.

Imagine you have significantly more dimensions than this and you can see fairly quickly things become impossible to grasp!!

Pretty soon the only conclusions to dealing with complex systems are pieces of advice like: "Never try to pick the top and bottom of the market."

All questions are valid: I listen to greggy trying to simplify the picture because that is scientific method--> trying to boil down what is seemingly complex to being less so!


  :D :D

Ideas come from conversation: the ideas stop when the rules of conversation stop!!

Attack with ideas I say!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  8-)