Abbott's women-hating Catholics at it again:

Murder trial witness says he heard 'deranged scream' and looked up to see  man drop ballerina to her death from 15th floor balcony

*Neighbours allegedly heard her scream 'please help me God' before fall
*Witness says he saw man drop black object from balcony and 'fist-pump'

...Gittany, 37, murdered his Canadian born fiance after an argument on the night of July 30, 2011.

CCTV footage has shown Miss Harnum screaming as she left the front door of the apartment on the day of her death, before Gittany allegedly reached around her head, put his hand over her mouth and brought her back inside.

The 30-year-old's terrifying last moments were captured on a pin-hole camera Gittany set up to spy on her every move, the court heard...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/10/21/article-2470030-18E1723400000578-200_306x423.jpg

Gittany was so jealous, Mr Tedeschi claimed, that he had banned her from seeing friends, forbade her from taking a job as a hairdresser and even hired a personal trainer to come to their home so she wouldn't go to the gym where he thought she would be ogled by other men...

...Describing Gittany as 'controlling and abusive', Tedeschi said he made her become Catholic, do her hair and dress exactly how he told her.

'[He believed] it was her function in life to submit to his will as the male in the relationship,' Mr Tedeschi said.

But his vice-like grip over her life was still not enough, the court heard. Mr Tedeschi told jurors Gittany even set up a network of mini cameras around the apartment to keep tabs on her and secretly read her emails and text messages...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2474748/Witness-tells-trial-controlling-Simon-Gittany-accused-throwing-fianc-Lisa-Harnum-death.html

Simon Gittany guilty of murdering fiancee Lisa Harnum

...Damning assessment of Gittany's character

...In her summing up, Justice McCallum said she did not believe Gittany's account of how Ms Harnum fell to her death.

Justice McCallum gave a damning assessment of Gittany's character.

"There can be no doubt the accused was controlling, dominating and at times abusive of Ms Harnum," she told the packed Supreme Court in Sydney on Wednesday.

"The force of his jealous and controlling personality met mixed reaction from Ms Harmum, who was at times defiant and at times submissive to an inexplicable degree.

"By the end of July 2011, these tensions had reached a point of crisis.

"By 6am on the morning of her death, Ms Harnum was "in a state of absolute fear and despair", Justice McCallum said.

Justice McCallum found Gittany reacted with "nothing short of rage" when he discovered Ms Harnum had secretly put some of her possessions in storage.

"For all his vigilance, his errant fiancee had found a way to secretly remove her belongings," the judge said.

She said she accepted Ms Harnum's mother's evidence that in their last ever phone conversation, Ms Harnum was "frantic", fearful and told her mother to contact her counsellor "if something happens to me".

Justice McCallum said she did not believe Mr Gittany's account of how Ms Harnum fell to her death.

"It's difficult to articulate my impression of that evidence except that I found him unconvincing," she said.

After dragging Ms Harnum screaming back into the apartment, Mr Gittany said she sat on the lounge while he went to make a cup of tea before she suddenly ran for the balcony.

'Accused struck me as being a person playing a role'

"At many times in his evidence, the accused struck me as being a person playing a role, telling a story which fitted with the objective evidence but which did no more than that," Justice McCallum said...

..."His account of what happened appeared to exist on borrowed detail.
"It lacked originality and the subtlety of actual experience."...

...Justice McCallum told the court: "The circumstances of Lisa Harnum's death were shocking and tragic."...

...Abusive and controlling behaviour: evidence

The dramatic three-week trial heard evidence that, despite professing his love for Ms Harnum, Gittany had subjected her to months of abusive and controlling behaviour, including keeping her under near-constant surveillance.

Justice McCallum, hearing the trial without a jury, was told that Gittany had convinced the young woman to change her style of dress completely, convert to Catholicism and leave her job at a hairdressing salon because the staff there were "polluting her mind".

He demanded to know where she was at all times, forbidding her from seeing her friends or doing anything that might involve coming into direct contact with other men.

"Please don't let any guy talk to you today … don't look at any guy as your eyes should only gaze on me, the one," Gittany told his fiancee in a text message.

Another text screamed: "Who the f--- do you think you are walking around the house like you own it or coming and going without my permission?"

Gittany monitored Ms Harnum with security cameras hidden in their apartment, and a computer program that tracked her text messages.

The court heard that in the weeks before her death Ms Harnum began planning her escape, leaving a bag of clothes with her counsellor, Michelle Richmond.

"He had said if she left him, she would be deported ... that she would leave with nothing, just as she had come, even her underwear," Ms Richmond told the court.

But Gittany became aware of the secret plan, telling Ms Richmond in an abusive phone call: "I'll f----n harm you.' "

It was the Crown case that, in the hours before her death, Ms Harnum discovered that she was under surveillance and made a desperate attempt to flee.

One of Gittany's own CCTV cameras recorded him grabbing Ms Harnum and, with one hand around her mouth, dragging her back into the apartment as she tried to escape.

Sixty-nine seconds later, she was dead, plunging 15 storeys to the footpath below.

Scrawled on a scrap of paper in her pocket were the words "there are surveillance cameras inside and outside the house".

Mr Rathmell, an ABC News producer, caught a glimpse of the murder as he was walking to work.

He saw a man "unload" what he thought was "luggage" off the 15th-floor balcony, before dashing back inside.

This contradicted Gittany's claim that, far from killing Ms Harnum, she had climbed over the balcony when he confronted her about a "secret" she had refused to divulge and then told her to leave...

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/simon-gittany-guilty-of-murdering-fiancee-lisa-harnum-20131127-2y9sr.html

Welcome back true colors.

This is a pretty interesting case, but not becasue of any rleigious reason. 

... wrote on Feb 6^th, 2014 at 11:08am:

This is a pretty interesting case, but not becasue of any rleigious reason.

got to admit, gittanys new gf is a stunner.

wally1 wrote on Feb 6^th, 2014 at 11:14am:

... wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 11:08am: This is a pretty interesting case, but not becasue of any rleigious reason.  got to admit, gittanys new gf is a stunner.

Yes, and his old one wasn't bad either.

That's why I find it interesting - it proves that hot girls love assholes.  Even (or perhaps epecially) murderous ones. 

... wrote on Feb 6^th, 2014 at 11:18am:

wally1 wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 11:14am: ... wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 11:08am: This is a pretty interesting case, but not becasue of any rleigious reason.  got to admit, gittanys new gf is a stunner. Yes, and his old one wasn't bad either. That's why I find it interesting - it proves that hot girls love assholes.  Even (or perhaps epecially) murderous ones.

pity he wont be getting any asshole for 20 years.

But its interesting with hot girls and guys.

I had to visit my mate in a prison few years ago and some of the inmates gf/wives where just hot.

True Colours wrote on Feb 6^th, 2014 at 10:41am:

Abbott's women-hating Catholics at it again: Murder trial witness says he heard 'deranged scream' and looked up to see  man drop ballerina to her death from 15th floor balcony ......Gittany was so jealous, Mr Tedeschi claimed, that he had banned her from seeing friends, forbade her from taking a job as a hairdresser and even hired a personal trainer to come to their home so she wouldn't go to the gym...... ...Describing Gittany as 'controlling and abusive', Tedeschi said he [b]made her become Catholic, do her hair and dress exactly how he told her. '[He believed] it was her function in life to submit to his will as the male in the relationship,' Mr Tedeschi said.

Quote:

Abbott's women-hating Catholics at it again:

True_Colours,

Are you sure that Simon Gittany's BEHAVIOUR defines him as a Catholic ???




True_Colours,

What is the difference between the way that Simon Gittany treated his girlfriend, and the way that ISLAM prescribes for moslems to treat to control their wives ?



Quote:

"There can be no doubt the accused was controlling, dominating and at times abusive of Ms Harnum,"

Controlling, dominating, and abusive ?

Google;
wife must not leave house without permission of husband, fiqh

"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all)."
Koran 4.34





Quote:

THE 'RIGHTS'(?) OF WOMEN IN ISLAM e.g. #1 The Koran [Allah] instructs moslems to beat disobedient wives, but ever so lightly. And you know, don't you, that moslem men do beat their wives,...ever so lightly. "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all)." Koran 4.34 Actually, i have read somewhere, that the 'clarifying' insertion "(lightly)", DOES NOT APPEAR IN THE ARABIC KORAN. And that this 'insertion' is [has been] added in some English translations of the Koran - to mislead those readers of the English translation of the Koran, one can only assume. +++ THE 'RIGHTS'(?) OF WOMEN IN ISLAM e.g. #2 IMO, within ISLAM, women have the status of cattle or 'fields'. The Koran [i.e. Allah] states that the woman, the wife, has the status of a field [of earth, 'tilth']. And her husband may use her [plough her] as he wishes ['how ye will']. And remember that every word in the Koran, has the sanctity of coming directly from Allah himself. And remember also, that Allah is never wrong, mistaken. "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand; and fear Allah. And know that ye are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give (these) good tidings to those who believe." Koran 2.223 Dictionary; tilth = = cultivation of land; tillage. +++ THE 'RIGHTS'(?) OF WOMEN IN ISLAM e.g. #3 Under ISLAMIC inheritance law. Any daughter receives 1/2 the entitlement of any male heir. e.g. Where there is a son, and a daughter, to inherit an estate. The estate is divided into 3 parts. The son receives 2 parts. The daughter receives 1 part. "Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children's (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half...." Koran 4.11

The difference between Christ and muhammad / allah on the treatment of women is:

Bible:
Quote:

John 8:3  And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, John 8:4  They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. John 8:5  Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? John 8:6  This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. John 8:7  So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her

Christianity = Christ represents forgiveness and compassion.

Then we have:
qur'an:
Quote:

qur’an 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.” qur’an 24:33 “Force not your slave-girls to whoredom (prostitution) if they desire chastity, that you may seek enjoyment of this life; and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

islam = allah / muhammad symbolize forced prostitution / rape and death

You guys have got it backward.

Men are not like that because of religion.

Religion is like that because men are.

... wrote on Feb 6^th, 2014 at 2:07pm:

You guys have got it backward. Men are not like that because of religion. Religion is like that because men are [like that].

honky,

You are pretty close to 'the bones' of the issue there, imo !

Colossians 3:18
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
19  Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.



Ephesians 5:22
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23  For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24  Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25  Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26  That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27  That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28  So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

Honky wrote:
Quote:

Religion is like that because men are.

You got it in one Honky.

Men are the authors of the Bible and the qur'an.

Some very important differences in the writing of either book are:

The Bible was written over a period of about Fifteen Hundred Years.

The Bible was written by over forty different authors.

The Bible is written in a variety of literary forms e.g.: letters, sermons, law, poetic descriptions, narratives of historical events, prayer, praise, practical sayings, and the predictions of prophets.

The books of the Bible were composed upon three different continents - Africa, Asia, and Europe. For example, the writings of Ezekiel were composed in Babylon (Asia); Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible in the Sinai desert (Africa); and the Apostle Paul wrote the letter to Philippi while in Rome (Europe).

The original Bible was written in three different languages. The Old Testament was written mostly in Hebrew with some parts being composed in Aramaic - a language similar to Hebrew. The New Testament was originally written in Greek.

Because the Bible was written over a period of fifteen hundred years most of the writers did not personally know the other writers of Scripture. In addition, the Old Testament authors would have been unfamiliar with the New Testament writings. (yet there is a unity of the spiritual message between all of them)

The authors were all inspired by their own personal state of being, which they believed was driven by the spirit of righteousness.

On the whole they were all good men, not hungering after an iniquitous way of life, but they were men, and no man is perfect.

==========================================================================

Now to the qur'an:

It is has one single author, muhammad.

A proven thief, liar, pedophile, rapist, torturer and mass murderer,

He also preached, inspired by his own personal state of being, which he believed was the perfect spiritual way.

Therefore the qur'an turned out to be a handbook to commit the most evil, foulest atrocities against your fellow man.

This is the worthy way for muslims, commit the most inhumane atrocity imaginable against a non muslim, and you get your big breasted houris, little boys with eyes like pearls in allah's paradise.

The actions of muslims around the globe attest to the evilness of islam / allah / muhammad / qur'an.

moses wrote on Feb 6^th, 2014 at 3:13pm:

On the whole they were all good men, not hungering after an iniquitous way of life,

Are you taking the piss? Pick an Old Testament character, and 9/10 times they do things that nowadays would get you a life sentence. 

Even Paul the apostle, author of most of the new testament was a mass murderer.

A catholic kills his girlfriend so he will be thrown in jail.

If a muslim does a honour killing they get let off in Islamic parts of the world, muslims always mention the superior morality in Islam.

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/04/afghanistan-law-victims-violence-women

Stratos wrote:
Quote:

Are you taking the piss? Pick an Old Testament character, and 9/10 times they do things that nowadays would get you a life sentence.

Exactly, they did things that were accepted by civilization, in their day over 3000 years ago.

Why do you think I keep reminding you that the Old Testament Law was discarded according to the New Testament, just on 2014 years ago?

You are the one who keeps bringing up the Old Testament as your exonerations for the barbarity of modern day islam 


Quote:

Even Paul the apostle, author of most of the new testament was a mass murderer.

Wasn't that before he was enlightened, completely changed his ways and became a Christian?

moses wrote on Feb 6^th, 2014 at 3:41pm:

You are the one who keeps bringing up the Old Testament as your exonerations for the barbarity of modern day islam

Actually, I have never made excuses for extremism.  Check my post history if you can be bothered.  And as two current Christian posters have clearly demonstrated, not everyone agrees that the old testament law should be done away with.

For the record I agree with you on the role of blatant evildoing having no part in religion.

I still maintain that they were not "ggod men" as you said.  Moses was a murderer, Abraham was willing to murder his son for God, Samson stuffed up his mission and killed thousands of people, David cheated on his wife and used his army for his personal vendetta, Solomon had several hundred wives.

I could go on.

Gittany's Catholicism kept getting him off the hook until he killed:

Revealed: murderer Simon Gittany's history of violence

SIMON Gittany, who was yesterday found guilty of killing his fiancee Lisa Harnum, is the target of a new police investigation over business dealings he conducted with two methylamphetamine producers while defending the murder charge.

The Australian can now reveal the NSW drugs squad is investigating a series of suspicious payments between Gittany, who is also a convicted drug dealer, and Jamie Shaun Hijniakoff, 25, and British-born Christopher Stephen Jacques, 38 who have pleaded guilty to producing meth in a secret laboratory northwest of Sydney in 2011.

Gittany's violent criminal history can also be revealed, including how he partially bit off a policeman's ear while trying to evade arrest in 1994, and his bizarre plot to escape weekend detention in 2003 by jabbing himself with a syringe of hepatitis-infected blood.

Despite a string of violent offences, Gittany was never sentenced to full-time jail. He received periodic detention largely because of his conversion to Catholicism and stated desire to enter a seminary in France and ultimately be ordained a priest... :-?

...With the murder trial now complete The Australian can report that while defending the murder charge, Gittany was an equal partner in a company known as Chemright, alongside self-confessed drug manufacturers Hijniakoff and Jacques.

The pair in February pleaded guilty to producing a commercial quantity of 3,4 methylenedioxyamphetamine - also known as Mandy, Sass or MDA - in a metal shed on a rural rental property at Tennyson, in the Hawkesbury region of NSW.

Police installed secret cameras in the laboratory while the pair were in China and subsequently captured footage of them producing the drug before raiding the property on August 8, 2011, a prosecution statement of facts read.

Company documents reveal Gittany, Jacques and Hijniakoff each controlled a one-third stake in Chemright when it was registered in May last year. It was deregistered ahead of the trial in July this year...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/revealed-murderer-simon-gittanys-history-of-violence/story-e6frg6nf-1226770042049#

Simon Gittany went from unemployed petty criminal who bit policeman's ear to a business high-flyer

In two decades Simon Gittany has gone from an unemployed petty crim biting police officers and living at home with his mother in Sydney's western suburbs to high-flying businessman who became an obsessive murderer.
The shoe importer had been living the life of a high-flyer in a deluxe inner-city apartment but Fairfax Media can reveal that his trial for murder was not the first time the 38-year-old had been in trouble with the law.

After a number of run-ins with police during his teenage years, Gittany was sentenced to 2½ years' periodic detention in 1995 after he bit the ear of a senior detective who was trying to arrest him over stolen goods.

Gittany was caught out the back of Lucky Lil's Tavern in Parramatta about 5.30 one morning in August 1993 with a number of items in his car. They included video recorders, a TV, a car stereo, a mobile phone, aftershave, a couple of gold rings and an orange and black bikini.
When police asked where he had got the items, he said he and two others had bought the goods from someone in the pub for $200.

Detectives later discovered all the items had been taken from a woman living in nearby Harris Park. When police went to Gittany's family home in March the next year, the then 20-year-old became violent when they tried to arrest him.
He bit the ear of Detective Senior Constable Keith Bristow, severing it, and also attacked Constable David Burgess...

...In 2000, Gittany was in trouble again - this time in relation to drugs supply charges. He was found guilty in the NSW District Court and sentenced to three years' periodic detention until August 2004.

http://images-2.domain.com.au/2013/11/27/4959386/mb_narrow_bristow_20131127224650678933-300x0.jpg
Detective Senior Constable Keith Bristow who had his ear bitten by Simon Gittany during an arrest in 1994.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/simon-gittany-went-from-unemployed-petty-criminal-who-bit-policemans-ear-to-a-business-highflyer-20131127-2yagm.html

moses wrote on Feb 6^th, 2014 at 3:41pm:

Why do you think I keep reminding you that the Old Testament Law was discarded according to the New Testament, just on 2014 years ago?

“Think not that I am come to destroy the Law or the way of the Prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily, I say unto you: 'Till Heaven and Earth pass away, not one jot or one speck shall in no way pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished."
- Matthew 5:17-8



moses wrote on Feb 6^th, 2014 at 3:41pm:

Quote: Even Paul the apostle, author of most of the new testament was a mass murderer. Wasn't that before he was enlightened, completely changed his ways and became a Christian?

Paul invented Christianity, after he himself admitted to being a real cad who had persecuted the real followers of Jesus.

Yadda wrote on Feb 6^th, 2014 at 11:51am:

True_Colours, Are you sure that Simon Gittany's BEHAVIOUR defines him as a Catholic ???

Yes, Catholicism teaches that a man's relationship to his woman is almost god-like and has complete authority over her. It is not bullying it is just the Catholic way:

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing."
   -Ephesians 5:22-4




The Bible teaches disrespect for women. Look at the way it portrays Jesus speaking to his own mother:

"And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage. And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, 'They have no wine.' Jesus said unto her, 'Woman, what have I to do with thee?'" :o
   - John 2:1-4




The following verse  in Catholicism's holy book tells you the status of women according to Catholicism's founder Paul:

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent." :o
- 1 Timothy 2:12

Come to think of it this guy kind of reminds me of another religious Catholic  fellow:

http://www.bsideblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/mel-gibson-crazy.jpg

Mel Gibson:

‘I want to f— her (Oksana) in the a– and stab her to death while I’m doing it.’



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo2f12XHRDw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAwkz7oxsmI

True Colours wrote:
Quote:

“Think not that I am come to destroy the Law or the way of the Prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily, I say unto you: 'Till Heaven and Earth pass away, not one jot or one speck shall in no way pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished."- Matthew 5:17-8

 

It has been done to death T.C.

Christ said He came to fulfill the law.

Fulfill means:
To complete successfully. To bring to a successful conclusion

If something is completed successfully, brought to a successful conclusion, it is finalized / finished

As written in the New Testament.


Quote:

Luke 16:16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it. Romans 3:20  Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Romans 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Galatians 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Galatians 3:11  But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

You will never be able to justify / excuse / exonerate the evil committed by islam / muslims today 2014, with Old Testament Laws.

2014 years ago Christians divested themselves of the O.T. Law

Mel gibson is cool.  I would habe thought you'd like him too, since his only crime is running afoul of Jews.

... wrote on Feb 6^th, 2014 at 7:24pm:

Mel gibson is cool.  I would habe thought you'd like him too, since his only crime is running afoul of Jews.

Wasn't he caught drink driving?

---

moses wrote on Feb 6^th, 2014 at 7:22pm:

True Colours wrote: Quote: “Think not that I am come to destroy the Law or the way of the Prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily, I say unto you: 'Till Heaven and Earth pass away, not one jot or one speck shall in no way pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished."- Matthew 5:17-8   It has been done to death T.C. Christ said He came to fulfill the law. Fulfill means: To complete successfully. To bring to a successful conclusion If something is completed successfully, brought to a successful conclusion, it is finalized / finished

I suggest that you look closely at what the Bible says are Jesus' own words:

'Till Heaven and Earth pass away, not one jot or one speck shall in no way pass away from the law'


What does 'Till Heaven and Earth pass away' mean? Could it mean anything other than until the Day of Judgement?

moses wrote on Feb 6^th, 2014 at 7:22pm:

Luke 16:16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it.

What does the very next verse say?

But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter in the law to drop out.
- Luke 16:17




moses wrote on Feb 6^th, 2014 at 7:22pm:

2014 years ago Christians divested themselves of the O.T. Law

Not true. Paul - who invented Christianity - never met Jesus and started teaching that rubbish after Jesus' time. 2014 years ago is at least 35 years before Paul went around inventing Christianity, and 300 years before the ideology of Paul was adopted by the Roman Government (instead of the teachings of Jesus), and the people of Europe were forced to join the religion of Paul.

So what religion did the guy convert FROM, to become Catholic?

True Colours wrote on Feb 6^th, 2014 at 7:57pm:

moses wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 7:22pm: Luke 16:16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached , and every man presseth into it. What does the very next verse say? But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter in the law to drop out. - Luke 16:17 moses wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 7:22pm: 2014 years ago Christians divested themselves of the O.T. Law Not true. Paul - who invented Christianity - never met Jesus and started teaching that rubbish after Jesus' time. 2014 years ago is at least 35 years before Paul went around inventing Christianity, and 300 years before the ideology of Paul was adopted by the Roman Government (instead of the teachings of Jesus), and the people of Europe were forced to join the religion of Paul.

Well not entirely true TC, it was Simon (the Apostle Peter) who apparently started Christianity, Paul was just one of the more vocal, and prolific (in terms of writing) of the early converts.

And, according to the stories, Paul went to Jerusalem 3 years after his conversion, and met with both Peter and James, tow of the original Apostles.

Stratos wrote on Feb 6^th, 2014 at 3:18pm:

moses wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 3:13pm: On the whole they were all good men, not hungering after an iniquitous way of life, Even Paul the apostle, author of most of the new testament was a mass murderer.

Prove it.

Stratos wrote on Feb 6^th, 2014 at 3:50pm:

moses wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 3:41pm: You are the one who keeps bringing up the Old Testament as your exonerations for the barbarity of modern day islam  Moses was a murderer, Abraham was willing to murder his son for God, I could go on.

How could they when neither existed?

Stratos wrote on Feb 6^th, 2014 at 3:50pm:

moses wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 3:41pm: You are the one who keeps bringing up the Old Testament as your exonerations for the barbarity of modern day islam  Actually, I have never made excuses for extremism.  Check my post history if you can be bothered.  And as two current Christian posters have clearly demonstrated, not everyone agrees that the old testament law should be done away with. For the record I agree with you on the role of blatant evildoing having no part in religion. I still maintain that they were not "ggod men" as you said.  Moses was a murderer, Abraham was willing to murder his son for God, Samson stuffed up his mission and killed thousands of people, David cheated on his wife and used his army for his personal vendetta, Solomon had several hundred wives. I could go on.

Don't you love it when lying hypocrites shoot themselves in the foot.
never?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
how soon some forget.

Adamant wrote on Feb 7^th, 2014 at 12:44am:

Stratos wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 3:50pm: moses wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 3:41pm: You are the one who keeps bringing up the Old Testament as your exonerations for the barbarity of modern day islam  Moses was a murderer, Abraham was willing to murder his son for God, I could go on. How could they when neither existed?

How do you know paul wasn't a murderer?

Adamant wrote on Feb 7^th, 2014 at 12:44am:

Stratos wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 3:50pm: moses wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 3:41pm: You are the one who keeps bringing up the Old Testament as your exonerations for the barbarity of modern day islam  Moses was a murderer, Abraham was willing to murder his son for God, I could go on. How could they when neither existed?

Pharoah is dead in a Egyptian museum with evidence of salt drowning which strongly indicates that he did drown as moses has said.

What you going to say next, pharaoh doesn't exist.

True Colours wrote:


Quote:

I suggest that you look closely at what the Bible says are Jesus' own words: 'Till Heaven and Earth pass away, not one jot or one speck shall in no way pass away from the law' What does 'Till Heaven and Earth pass away' mean? Could it mean anything other than until the Day of Judgement?

Well T.C. disingenuousness will get you nowhere, why did you deliberately leave out the last four words of Matthew 5:18? Those words are till all be fulfilled

The complete verse reads:

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


So in plain english it seems pretty clear that Jesus said the law will not pass away, untill it has been fulfilled.

He also stated that He came to fulfill the law.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

So why the deceit T.C.?

You then wrote:

Quote:

What does the very next verse say? But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter in the law to drop out. - Luke 16:17

Well that seems pretty clear also.

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Luke16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Again Christ is saying that the law was untill the time of John and the law will not fail.

In order to positively state the Law will not fail, you would have to be also be positively certain that the law would be concluded successfully. (one mistake means the law failed)

Christ stated that He came to fulfill the law.

Fulfill means: to complete successfully, bring to a successful conclusion.

Therefore Luke 16:16, Luke 16:17, are in unity of spirit with the teachings of Matthew 5:17, Matthew 5:18

You also wrote:

Quote:

Not true. Paul - who invented Christianity - never met Jesus and started teaching that rubbish after Jesus' time. 2014 years ago is at least 35 years before Paul went around inventing Christianity, and 300 years before the ideology of Paul was adopted by the Roman Government (instead of the teachings of Jesus), and the people of Europe were forced to join the religion of Paul.

Christ spoke the words that the law would not pass away until it was fulfilled.

Christ spoke the words that He would fulfill the law.

So yes 2014 years ago Christ fulfilled (successfully concluded) the law.

Therefore Christians began their justification by Faith in Christ and not the deeds of the Law 2014 years ago

wally1 wrote on Feb 7^th, 2014 at 11:28am:

Adamant wrote on Feb 7th, 2014 at 12:44am: Stratos wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 3:50pm: moses wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 3:41pm: You are the one who keeps bringing up the Old Testament as your exonerations for the barbarity of modern day islam  Moses was a murderer, Abraham was willing to murder his son for God, I could go on. How could they when neither existed? How do you know paul wasn't a murderer?

Prove it!

wally1 wrote on Feb 7^th, 2014 at 11:30am:

Pharoah

Which Pharoah?

Adamant wrote on Feb 7^th, 2014 at 6:00pm:

wally1 wrote on Feb 7th, 2014 at 11:28am: Adamant wrote on Feb 7th, 2014 at 12:44am: Stratos wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 3:50pm: moses wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 3:41pm: You are the one who keeps bringing up the Old Testament as your exonerations for the barbarity of modern day islam  Moses was a murderer, Abraham was willing to murder his son for God, I could go on. How could they when neither existed? How do you know paul wasn't a murderer? Prove it!

http://i.imgur.com/nJ2hTmA.jpg

Stratos wrote:

Quote:

I still maintain that they were not "ggod men" as you said.  Moses was a murderer, Abraham was willing to murder his son for God, Samson stuffed up his mission and killed thousands of people, David cheated on his wife and used his army for his personal vendetta, Solomon had several hundred wives. I could go on.

Why the misrepresentation of what I said Stratos?

my words were:

Quote:

The authors were all inspired by their own personal state of being, which they believed was driven by the spirit of righteousness. On the whole they were all good men, not hungering after an iniquitous way of life, but they were men, and no man is perfect.

I was clearly talking about the forty odd different authors of the Bible, I stated that "On the whole they were all good men".

You have gone off on a false tangent about the characters of the Bible, not the writers.

Of the 40 odd authors how many do you think weren't trying to do the right thing?

I reread the post Moses, and see you were referring to the authors.  Sorry I got confused and thought you were talking about the characters.


moses wrote on Feb 7^th, 2014 at 6:23pm:

Of the 40 odd authors how many do you think weren't trying to do the right thing?

Honestly I have no idea.  It is worth noting that some of the Bible authors did also appear in scripture.  Moses, David, Solomon, Paul all allegedly wrote parts of the bible

moses wrote on Feb 7^th, 2014 at 2:11pm:

True Colours wrote: Quote: I suggest that you look closely at what the Bible says are Jesus' own words: 'Till Heaven and Earth pass away, not one jot or one speck shall in no way pass away from the law' What does 'Till Heaven and Earth pass away' mean? Could it mean anything other than until the Day of Judgement? Well T.C. disingenuousness will get you nowhere, why did you deliberately leave out the last four words of Matthew 5:18? Those words are till all be fulfilled The complete verse reads: Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, [b]till all be fulfilled.[/b...

'Till all be fulfilled' is obviously a reference to the Day of Judgement as is the passing of Heaven and Earth.

How can 'all be fulfilled' before the Day of Judgement?

The Bible says that Jesus was not around to abolish the law:

"Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets."
- Matthew 5:17

If Jesus did not abolish the law, then who did? The answer is that the cretin named Paul invented a new religion.

Stratos wrote:

Quote:

Honestly I have no idea.  It is worth noting that some of the Bible authors did also appear in scripture.  Moses, David, Solomon, Paul all allegedly wrote parts of the bible

I agree and I also think that a lot of the preachings of these men reflected their own personal inner being, which they considered to be the Spirit of Righteousness.

That very logic explains why islam is so evil, it is the thoughts / beliefs of muhammad, he  is recorded as a thief, liar, sexual deviate, rapist, torturer and mass murderer.

The Bible has over 40 authors over 1500 years, spread across three continents.

The words of the qur'an are the sole conception of muhammad, consequently it is nothing more than motivation to commit the most evil deeds imaginable, in the true spirit of the psychopath muhammad. (he was illiterate he did not write the words he only spoke them)

muslims believe it is the direct word of allah, muhammad told them so, they kill people who disagree with their philosophy without blinking an eye, in fact they enjoy it (today 2014). (allah is supposed to have a copy of the qur'an himself)

There is absolutely no comparison between the two books, I am convinced that the qur'an is evil in content and intent.

True Colours wrote:

Quote:

'Till all be fulfilled' is obviously a reference to the Day of Judgement as is the passing of Heaven and Earth. How can 'all be fulfilled' before the Day of Judgement? The Bible says that Jesus was not around to abolish the law: "Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets." - Matthew 5:17 If Jesus did not abolish the law, then who did? The answer is that the cretin named Paul invented a new religion.

It's no good asking your local imam to interpret the Bible T.C. (he's like muhammad, has no idea)

I notice you again used deceit to leave out the last four words of Matthew 5:17. Why are you afraid of these four words T.C.?

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

The Christian spiritual message is: Christ fulfilled (brought to a successful conclusion) the law, His sacrifice on the cross was the final blood sacrifice of the law. 

moses wrote on Feb 8^th, 2014 at 10:52am:

True Colours wrote: [quote] The Christian spiritual message is: Christ fulfilled (brought to a successful conclusion) the law, His sacrifice on the cross was the final blood sacrifice of the law.

Jesus was not crucified. Jesus alludes to this when he tells the Jews that they will not be able to catch him:


Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and [then] I go unto him (God) that sent me. Ye shall seek me, and shall not find [me]: and where I am, [thither] ye cannot come. Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles? What [manner of] saying is this that he said, Ye shall seek me, and shall not find [me]: and where I am, [thither] ye cannot come?
  - John 7:33-36

For the Scriptures say, ‘He will order his angels to protect and guard you.
And they will hold you up with their hands so you won’t even hurt your foot on a stone.’”
  - Luke 4:10-1


"the Scriptures say, ‘He will order his angels to protect you. And they will hold you up with their hands so you won’t even hurt your foot on a stone."
  - Matthew 4:6

See, my servant will act wisely ; he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted.
  - Isaiah 52:13

Now I know that the Lord saves his anointed king. He answers him from his holy heaven. The power of God's right hand saves the king.
  - Psalms 20:6

He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the LORD, "He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust." Surely he will save you from the fowler's snare and from the deadly pestilence. He will cover you with his feathers, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart. You will not fear the terror of night, nor the arrow that flies by day...A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you...If you make the Most High your dwelling— even the LORD, who is my refuge - then no harm will befall you, no disaster will come near your tent. For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways; they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone..."Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name. He will call upon me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble, I will deliver him and honour him. With long life will I satisfy him and show him my salvation."
- Psalm 91





"That they (Jews) rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary a grave false charge (of pre-marital relations);  That they said (in boast):  'We killed Christ, Jesus son of Mary, The Apostle of God.'  But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them (Jews), and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.  Nay, God raised him up Unto Himself; and God is exalted in power, the Wise.  And there is none of the people of the Bible (Jews and Christians) but must believe in him  (Jesus) before his death [Jesus will put to the sword the Jews who deny him]; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness against them.
  - Quran, an-Nisaa, v.157

True Colours wrote:
Quote:

Jesus was not crucified. Jesus alludes to this when he tells the Jews that they will not be able to catch him: Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and [then] I go unto him (God) that sent me. Ye shall seek me, and shall not find [me]: and where I am, [thither] ye cannot come. Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles? What [manner of] saying is this that he said, Ye shall seek me, and shall not find [me]: and where I am, [thither] ye cannot come? - John 7:33-36

You'll have to get back to your imam T.C. he got it wrong again

From the Bible:
Quote:

John 7:33 Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me. John 7:34 Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come. John 7:35 Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles? John7:36 What manner of saying is this that he said, Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come?

It's extremely plain T.C.:

Christ said He was going back to Him [God] that sent me e.g.: Christ would be resurrected and ascend into Heaven.

He also said: where I am, thither ye cannot come Again pretty plain isn't it? They would seek Him, would not be able to find Him, because He would be in Heaven, men in their natural state can not go there and see Him

You also wrote:
Quote:

For the Scriptures say, ‘He will order his angels to protect and guard you. And they will hold you up with their hands so you won’t even hurt your foot on a stone.’”- Luke 4:10-1

Now the true muslim is coming out, quoting from satan T.C.?

From the Bible:
Quote:

Luke 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. Luke4:7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. Luke4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Luke4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence: Luke4:10 For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee: Luke4:11 And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Luke4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Luke4:13 And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.

Basically it all says: Satan was tempting Christ, Christ overcame the enticements of evil.

You then quoted Satan again with:
Quote:

"the Scriptures say, ‘He will order his angels to protect you. And they will hold you up with their hands so you won’t even hurt your foot on a stone."- Matthew 4:6

From the Bible again:
Quote:

Matthew 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Matthew 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Matthew 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

Once again Satan tempted Christ, Christ overcome the evil of the devil

You then wrote:
Quote:

See, my servant will act wisely ;he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted.- Isaiah 52:13 Now I know that the Lord saves his anointed king. He answers him from his holy heaven. The power of God's right hand saves the king.- Psalms 20:6 He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the LORD, "He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust." Surely he will save you from the fowler's snare and from the deadly pestilence. He will cover you with his feathers, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart. You will not fear the terror of night, nor the arrow that flies by day...A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you...If you make the Most High your dwelling— even the LORD, who is my refuge - then no harm will befall you, no disaster will come near your tent. For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways; they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone..."Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name. He will call upon me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble, I will deliver him and honour him. With long life will I satisfy him and show him my salvation."- Psalm 91

The O.T. is the evidence of the covenant between God and the Israelites

moses wrote on Feb 8^th, 2014 at 2:13pm:

T Now the true muslim is coming out, quoting from satan T.C.?

No. quoting your Bible - unless you admit that your Bible is from Satan.

The fact is that in these Bible verses Satan was referring to Psalm 91 that say that God would protect Jesus, and Jesus did not contradict Satan or disagree with him about having trust that God will protect him, but Jesus only says that while the psalm is true, he must not put God to the test either by doing something stupid.

So the the Old Testament says that God will protect Jesus, and in the New Testament, Jesus does not disagree. But somehow you disagree.

wally1 wrote on Feb 7^th, 2014 at 6:16pm:

Adamant wrote on Feb 7th, 2014 at 6:00pm: wally1 wrote on Feb 7th, 2014 at 11:28am: Adamant wrote on Feb 7th, 2014 at 12:44am: Stratos wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 3:50pm: moses wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 3:41pm: You are the one who keeps bringing up the Old Testament as your exonerations for the barbarity of modern day islam  Moses was a murderer, Abraham was willing to murder his son for God, I could go on. How could they when neither existed? How do you know paul wasn't a murderer? Prove it! http://i.imgur.com/nJ2hTmA.jpg

This is the answer to what? That muslims don't get killed for producing silly cartoons, that you are incapable of logical thought and are unable to answer a question or uncontroversial and conclusive  proof you forgot to take your meds today?

True Colours wrote

Quote:

No. quoting your Bible - unless you admit that your Bible is from Satan. The fact is that in these Bible verses Satan was referring to Psalm 91 that say that God would protect Jesus, and Jesus did not contradict Satan or disagree with him about having trust that God will protect him, but Jesus only says that while the psalm is true, he must not put God to the test either by doing something stupid. So the the Old Testament says that God will protect Jesus, and in the New Testament, Jesus does not disagree. But somehow you disagree.

Psalms 91 exhorts the Israelites as a whole to put their faith in God, as their provider and protector.

It is still recited today by both Jews and Christians seeking deliverance from adversities.

Christ was sent (so that man could be saved) He would endure and overcome the most barbaric of adversities, including death.

It seems that Jesus was given the protection of God:

He completed (to the letter) the tasks He was sent to do. He defeated the pain, the torture, humiliation and death by being resurrected, He now abides beside the right Hand of God in Heaven.

Any physical harm done to Christ, was completely obliterated / wiped away by His resurrection.

I'd say Christ received the ultimate protection and reward He desired, by being resurrected.

True Colours wrote on Feb 8^th, 2014 at 11:32am:

moses wrote on Feb 8th, 2014 at 10:52am: True Colours wrote: [quote] The Christian spiritual message is: Christ fulfilled (brought to a successful conclusion) the law, His sacrifice on the cross was the final blood sacrifice of the law. Jesus was not crucified. Jesus alludes to this when he tells the Jews that they will not be able to catch him: ............... ............... "That they (Jews) rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary a grave false charge (of pre-marital relations);  That they said (in boast):  'We killed Christ, Jesus son of Mary, The Apostle of God.'  But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them (Jews), and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.  Nay, God raised him up Unto Himself; and God is exalted in power, the Wise.  And there is none of the people of the Bible (Jews and Christians) but must believe in him  (Jesus) before his death [Jesus will put to the sword the Jews who deny him]; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness against them.   - Quran, an-Nisaa, v.157

True_Colours,

The Koran and moslems contradict the testimony of God [in his word] and Jesus [in his word].

The Koran and moslems claim that Jesus was not crucified, and that Jesus did not die on the cross, but that Jesus was 'conveyed' to heaven by God [Allah] - without Jesus tasting death.



ISLAM teaches a 'strange' and different narrative about Jesus, which totally contradicts the narrative about Jesus that is found in the New Testament account of Jesus life, ministry, death, and his resurrection.


"Jesus was not crucified. Jesus alludes to this when he tells the Jews that they will not be able to catch him:"


John 7:25
Then said some of them of Jerusalem, Is not this he, whom they seek to kill?
26  But, lo, he speaketh boldly, and they say nothing unto him. Do the rulers know indeed that this is the very Christ?
27  Howbeit we know this man whence he is: but when Christ cometh, no man knoweth whence he is.
28  Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not.
29  But I know him: for I am from him, and he hath sent me.
30  Then they sought to take him: but no man laid hands on him, because his hour was not yet come.




And what was Jesus own account ?

It is the account, of how he, Jesus [as God's emissary to mankind] would be rejected by men, and would be killed by those same men !


Luke 24:25
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26  Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27  And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


Luke 24:36
And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37  But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38  And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39  Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40  And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41  And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42  And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43  And he took it, and did eat before them.
44  And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45  Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46  And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47  And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48  And ye are witnesses of these things.


Jesus died at the hands of men.

Was raised again by God the father.

And then appeared to his friends and disciples again, not as a spirit but in the flesh.



Our salvation rests upon our belief that Jesus was crucified, died, and after 3 days, and 3 nights, Jesus was revived by God.

1 Corinthians 15:4
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5  And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6  After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.



The moslem narrative, about Jesus being conveyed to heaven by God [Allah] WITHOUT JESUS SUFFERING DEATH, totally subverts the God's purpose, for Jesus death and resurrection....

1 Corinthians 1:21
...it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching [the resurrection from death, of Jesus] to save them that believe.

Sounds like the whole family are Christian fanatics:

Murderer Simon Gittany jailed for 26 years

Simon Gittany has been jailed for a total of 26 years for the murder of his fiancee, Lisa Harnum.

The 40-year-old Sydney man convicted of throwing his fiancee to her death from a 15th-floor balcony will be eligible for parole after 18 years, on May 21, 2031...

...One of his sisters stood up after the sentencing and declared: "In the name of Jesus Christ, you won't be doing any of that time."  :D

A woman in the public balcony yelled in celebration as the sentence was handed down, shouting "Off the balcony you go!" as Gittany was being led out of the courtroom...

http://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/21394443/murderer-simon-gittany-to-learn-fate/

True Colours wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 4:40pm:

Sounds like the whole family are Christian fanatics: Murderer Simon Gittany jailed for 26 years

He was thrown in jail, how does that compare to the many Islamic countries where honour killing is legal?

Of course muslims will never speak out about Islamic honour killings will they.

True Colours wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 4:40pm:

Sounds like the whole family are Christian fanatics

Sounds more like they're bloody idiots....

... wrote on Feb 6^th, 2014 at 11:18am:

wally1 wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 11:14am: ... wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 11:08am: This is a pretty interesting case, but not becasue of any rleigious reason.  got to admit, gittanys new gf is a stunner. Yes, and his old one wasn't bad either. That's why I find it interesting - it proves that hot girls love assholes.  Even (or perhaps epecially) murderous ones.

She doesn't do it for me, I'm afraid.


http://images.watoday.com.au/2014/02/09/5145617/art-Rachelle-Louise---SundayNight7-620x349.jpg



Having said that, I wouldn't turn her down if she asked ... nicely.

I'm glad her piece-of-poo boyfriend will be behind bars for the next 18 years.  Hope he gets hell inside.

I had only seen brief glances of her when I wrote that.  On closer inspection, i prefer my shielas to have noses, rather than 2 holes in her face.  Still, she cuts a good figure, but is let down by her face.

7/10 WB.

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 4:45pm:

He was thrown in jail, how does that compare to the many Islamic countries where honour killing is legal?

Oh yeah? Legal is it? And in which country is it that?

True Colours wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 6:25pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 11th, 2014 at 4:45pm: He was thrown in jail, how does that compare to the many Islamic countries where honour killing is legal? Oh yeah? Legal is it? And in which country is it that?

Pakistan leads the way with honour killings, Pakistan is 99% muslim.
https://www.google.com.au/#q=pakistan+honour+killings

Amnesty internation have been outspoken about Pakistani muslim honour killings.

Islam is not compatible with human rights as defined in the Universal Declaration of human rights.