MP calls for Israeli sanctions over Gaza injustices

I’d like to share, especially with American readers, a great moment in the British Parliament on 5 February when the MP for Gorton, Manchester, Sir Gerald Kaufman rose to speak in a debate on the humanitarian situation in Gaza. Here is what he said word for word so that you get the full flavour:

❝
I once led a delegation of 60 parliamentarians from 13 European Parliaments to Gaza. I could no longer do that today because Gaza is practically inaccessible. The Israelis try to lay the responsibility on the Egyptians, but although the Egyptians’ closing of the tunnels has caused great hardship, it is the Israelis who have imposed the blockade and are the occupying power. The culpability of the Israelis was demonstrated in the report to the UN by Richard Goldstone following Operation Cast Lead. After his report, he was harassed by Jewish organisations. At the end of a meeting I had with him in New York, his wife said to me, “It is good to meet another self-hating Jew.”


Again and again, Israel seeks to justify the vile injustices that it imposes on the people of Gaza and the west bank on the grounds of the holocaust. Last week, we commemorated the holocaust; 1.7 million Palestinians in Gaza are being penalised with that as the justification. That is unacceptable.

The statistics are appalling. There is fresh water for a few hours every five days. Fishing boats are not allowed to go out—in any case, what is the point, because the waters are so filthy that no fish they catch can be eaten? The Israelis are victimising the children above all. Half the population of this country is under the voting age. What is being done to those children—the lack of nutrition—is damaging not only their bodies and brains; it will go on for generation after generation.

It is totally unacceptable that the Israelis should behave in such a way, but they do not care. Go to Tel Aviv, as I did not long ago, and watch them sitting complacently outside their pavement cafés. They do not give a damn about their fellow human beings perhaps half an hour away. The right hon. Member for Banbury (Sir Tony Baldry) quoted the Prime Minister as saying that Gaza is a prison camp. It is all very well for him to say that, as he did, in Turkey—he was visiting a Muslim country—but what is he doing about it? Nothing, nothing, nothing!

The time when we could condemn and think that that was enough has long passed. The Israelis do not care about condemnation. They are self-righteous and complacent. We must now take action against them. We must impose sanctions. If the spineless Obama will not do it, we must do it—even unilaterally. We must press the European community for it to be done. These people cannot be persuaded. We cannot appeal to their better nature when they do not have one. It is all very well saying, “Wicked, wicked Hamas.” Hamas is dreadful. I have met people from Hamas, but nothing it has done justifies punishing children, women and the sick as the Israelis are doing now. They must be stopped.

As has been pointed out, there is a time limit for what we are talking about. The idea that things can go on, while we wait for a two-state solution, is gone. Sooner or later, the Palestinians will say, “We are dying anyhow, so let us die for something.” Let us stop that: I do not want a war. I do not want violent action, but the action that the international community takes must be imposed, otherwise hell will break loose. ”

Sir Gerald is one of the very few heroic figures in British politics. His family suffered horribly during the Holocaust. After the Israelis’ Operation Cast Lead against Gaza in 2008/9 in which they slaughtered 1400, mostly civilians including hundreds of children, he told the House of Commons: “My grandmother was ill in bed when the Nazis came to her home town. A German soldier shot her dead in her bed. My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza.”

He doesn’t mince words; he knows the Israeli regime for what it really is. “They’re not simply war criminals, they’re fools”. He calls Israel itself a “pariah state”.

In April 2002, during Israel’s controversial military operation codenamed Defensive Shield, Kaufman said in the Commons: “It is time to remind Sharon that the Star of David belongs to all Jews, not to his repulsive Government. His actions are staining the star of David with blood.”

He also compared Hamas in Gaza to the Jewish resistance during World War II. “The spokeswoman for the Israeli army, Major Leibovich, was asked about the Israeli killing of, at that time, 800 Palestinians. The total is now 1,000. She replied instantly that ’500 of them were militants’. That was the reply of a Nazi. I suppose the Jews fighting for their lives in the Warsaw ghetto could have been dismissed as militants.”

As for Hamas, he describes them as “a deeply nasty organisation, but it was democratically elected, and it is the only game in town. The boycotting of Hamas, including by our Government, has been a culpable error, from which dreadful consequences have followed.” He pointed out that the Irgun [infamously responsible for the bombing in 1946 of the King David Hotel, HQ of the British Mandate government, murdering 91, and the Deir Yassin massacre in 1948] were terrorists, and that “Israel was born out of Jewish terrorism”.

There’s an interesting footnote on the Wiki page which says: “In

http://i.imgur.com/PFyTB1G.jpg

There was a really good article in the last weekend herald about the growing boycott movement - which is actually hurting Israel.

For the first time in a long time I'm actually feeling optimistic. It seems there is real change in the air. Its ironic that its Israel's belligerence and deliberate sabotage of the two-state process that is creating this new opportunity for activists to campaign using a South African apartheid frame of reference. Then, as now, sanctions and boycotts were central to causing the collapse of apartheid policies, and eventual emancipation of the mass of people discriminated against on racial grounds.

It could be that the very belligerence and short-sightedness of Israel in trying to crush the independent Palestinian movement, has itself created the best opportunity for true peace and justice for the Palestinian people.

Four Corners: Stone Cold Justice

Mon 10 Feb 2014,

A joint investigation by Four Corners and The Australian newspaper reveals evidence that shows the Israeli army targeting Palestinian boys for arrest and detention.

Reporter John Lyons travelled to the West Bank to hear the story of children who claim they have been taken into custody, ruthlessly questioned and then allegedly forced to sign confessions before being taken to court for sentencing.

The United Nations children's agency (UNICEF) has been investigating these claims and last year released a report finding that "children have been threatened with death, physical violence, solitary confinement and sexual assault." Filmmaker Sylvie Le Clezio took the following pictures for Four Corners

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-10/stone-cold-justice/5249274

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 10^th, 2014 at 9:00pm:

There was a really good article in the last weekend herald about the growing boycott movement - which is actually hurting Israel. For the first time in a long time I'm actually feeling optimistic. It seems there is real change in the air. Its ironic that its Israel's belligerence and deliberate sabotage of the two-state process that is creating this new opportunity for activists to campaign using a South African apartheid frame of reference. Then, as now, sanctions and boycotts were central to causing the collapse of apartheid policies, and eventual emancipation of the mass of people discriminated against on racial grounds. It could be that the very belligerence and short-sightedness of Israel in trying to crush the independent Palestinian movement, has itself created the best opportunity for true peace and justice for the Palestinian people.

gandalf is feeling optimistic.




Moslems will never acknowledge the right of Israel to exist.

Moslems will never acknowledge that 'Palestinians' have already been given a whole nation to themselves, formed for that purpose [as a 'homeland'].




IMAGE....
http://www.think-israel.org/nov13pix/bds.winningjustice.jpg




Quote:

THE HATE AND HYPOCRISY OF THE BDS MOVEMENT ........ ........ EDITOR'S NOTE: One of the comments that added information. Bamaguje "UN Resolution 242 called for return of 'territories,' not all the territories Israel captured in the Six Day War of June." - Joseph Puder If you ask me I'd say UN resolution 242 was flawed in calling for Israel to 'return territories.' Return to whom? Prior to the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, Jordan and Egypt illegally occupied West Bank and Gaza... which is why they later renounced their claims. And there was no Palestinian nation to speak of in 1967. In fact as rightly pointed out in the article, PLO's 1964 founding charter renounced all claims to West bank & Gaza. The only "Palestine" they were interested in "liberating" was Israel itself. The so-called occupied West bank was the heartland of the Biblical Jewish kingdom, and Jews lived there continuously for over 3000 years until they were expelled by Jordan in 1948. When Israel reconquered the area in 1967, and Jews returned to Judea & Samaria, they were now called "occupiers." The last binding international agreement on Palestine - Britain's illegal partition in 1922 - firmly places West Bank & Gaza in the Jewish portion of Palestine. Arabs got the lion share (77%) in that partition - Jordan. In essence, Palestinians already have their own state - Jordan.

http://www.think-israel.org/puder.bdshypocrisy.html





Come quickly LORD.

Teach your enemies.

Yadda wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 8:54am:

Moslems will never acknowledge that 'Palestinians' have already been given a whole nation to themselves, formed for that purpose [as a 'homeland'].

So Yadda, your solution is for these people to uproot themselves from their farms and homes and livelihood and camp themselves into another country that doesn't even want them?

Personally I prefer one free and just state where muslims and jews live together with equal rights, and there is no race-based discrimination. But thats just me.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 12:24pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 11th, 2014 at 8:54am: Moslems will never acknowledge that 'Palestinians' have already been given a whole nation to themselves, formed for that purpose [as a 'homeland']. So Yadda, your solution is for these people to uproot themselves from their farms and homes and livelihood and camp themselves into another country that doesn't even want them? Personally I prefer one free and just state where muslims and jews live together with equal rights, and there is no race-based discrimination. But thats just me.

Oh really!




gandalf,

You know very well, that it is completely unlawful for a moslem to offer peace [that is, to live in a state of permanent peace] with the infidel, and you know that it is completely unlawful for a moslem to offer to live in equality with the infidel.



QUESTION;

Are you really a moslem, gandalf, ...or not ?

As a moslem, are you just lying to me, and misrepresenting ISLAM to me [and to other persons who are not moslems] ?

Or are you a sincere person who is ignorant of ISLAM's obligations upon you [as a moslem] [towards infidels] ?



ANSWER;

I don't believe you gandalf.

I do not believe that you are a sincere person.

Why not ?

Because you yourself declare, that you ARE a moslem.

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.

You are a moslem, gandalf.

Moslem = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."








Quote:

WHY PRETEND? READ THE HUDAIBIYA TREATY by Emanuel Winston Why pretend that Arab Muslims will ever commit to a lasting peace with the Jewish State of Israel? The bedrock of their inconstancy comes from the Koran. Even when Arab Muslim leaders are not observant Muslims, they invariably fall back on the instructions of Koranic law and Mohammed's teaching through the 'Hadith' (Islamic oral teachings) when they need to stir up their people. Another reason for this deep and abiding hatred for non-Muslims is a backward society, locked in the time warp of the 7th Century by the Mullahs who condemn their people to jealousy and hatred for any people who trek forward and accomplish. Every country's Foreign Ministry with well-educated bureaucrats would know that making an agreement with Islamic-driven nation is like using disappearing ink. The leaders of the 22 Arab and/or the total 57 Islamic countries make agreements with impunity, knowing they can and will break them at any time convenient or necessary to them......

http://www.think-israel.org/winston.hudaibiyatreaty.html





+++




WHY, DO MOSLEMS LIE ???


Taqiyya
“Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible..., and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. ...One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…”
google




Google;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit

try again...


polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 12:24pm:

So Yadda, your solution is for these people to uproot themselves from their farms and homes and livelihood and camp themselves into another country that doesn't even want them?

Yadda wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 1:58pm:

Moslem = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."

you sure you got that right?  I have never heard that before.  Even from you

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 10^th, 2014 at 9:00pm:

There was a really good article in the last weekend herald about the growing boycott movement - which is actually hurting Israel. For the first time in a long time I'm actually feeling optimistic. It seems there is real change in the air. Its ironic that its Israel's belligerence and deliberate sabotage of the two-state process that is creating this new opportunity for activists to campaign using a South African apartheid frame of reference. Then, as now, sanctions and boycotts were central to causing the collapse of apartheid policies, and eventual emancipation of the mass of people discriminated against on racial grounds. It could be that the very belligerence and short-sightedness of Israel in trying to crush the independent Palestinian movement, has itself created the best opportunity for true peace and justice for the Palestinian people.

The road to justice and peace lies through boycotting Israel

 
Barring a dramatic change in the military balance in the Middle East, it would seem that only sanctions are likely to deliver anything approximating a just solution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

According to an opinion poll carried out by the Israeli Geocartography Institute and cited by the Middle East Monitor website, 67 per cent of Israelis believe that the threat of several European countries to boycott Israel economically would harm their families in one way or another.

The website quoted the institute’s director, who oversaw the poll, as saying that “the Israeli public seriously fears the European actions against Israel”. He pointed out that the concern is spread across most of Israeli socio-economic groups, especially the residents of the northern region, as well as the lower middle class and those with average incomes ranging between 9,000 and 13,000 shekels (that is, 2,547-3,680 US dollars).

The conclusion is clear. If you’re interested in a just peace between Israel and the Palestinians, then boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) is the only path.

As the British legislator Gerald Kaufman told the lower chamber of the UK parliament on 5 February, most Israelis have no empathy with others as long as they are comfortable and secure:


Go to Tel Aviv, as I did not long ago, and watch them sitting complacently outside their pavement cafés. They do not give a damn about their fellow human beings perhaps half an hour away.

There are only two ways to change that attitude. The first is the threat of overwhelming and sustained force, which for now is not possible. This leaves BDS as the only realistic path to peace and justice in the short and medium terms.

You may be right Gandalf, look at the countries putting pressure on a illegal state called Israel.


Israel struggling against growing boycott campaign


(MEMO)  - Israel’s Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper has released a report revealing that the Foreign Ministry has acknowledged its inability to face the growing boycott campaign despite resorting to all political and judicial means, which have been ineffective, especially against private companies. The report explained that the ministry has succeeded in putting pressure on some European governments to take a stance against calls to boycott Israel following the resumption of peace talks with the Palestinians.

“It would be useless to launch an anti-boycott campaign to promote settlement products,” said a ministry official. Israel has been able to curb several boycott initiatives, said the report. Even in unfriendly countries, the boycott has not been made law yet; however it is likely that some politicians will push this “due to the sweeping wave of hostility” towards Israel.

According to Israeli Finance Minister Yair Lapid, “If the peace talks with the Palestinians fail, Israel would lose exports worth nearly 20 billion shekels”. Furthermore, he added, the EU might also abolish its partnership with Israel, which means an extra loss of 3.5 billion shekels, mainly in the agriculture sector. Lapid noted that major European food chains, especially in Britain and the Scandinavian countries, have banned settlement products.



Yedioth Ahronoth published a list of companies and institutions that implement boycotts against Israel:

Norway: The Government Pension Fund of Norway has sold its shares in Africa Israel Investments, Danya Cebus and Sesa Sterlite.

Germany: The German Railway Company did not bid to build or operate the train service which runs through the occupied Palestinian territories.

Belgium: The Belgian government has cancelled a “Tel Aviv – the White City” exhibition which was scheduled in the capital, Brussels.

Scotland: The Edinburgh International Film Festival returned an award granted by the Israeli Embassy in line with its decision to boycott the state.

Australia: The Maryville municipality in Sydney province imposed a boycott on Israel and all companies engaged in trade with it. Several pro-Palestinian organisations have called for a boycott of oranges produced in Jaffa and Max Brenner chocolate.

Netherlands: The Netherlands’ largest water company, Vitens, has severed ties with Israel’s Mekorot water company. The Dutch Pension Fund has withdrawn all investments from Israeli banks.

South Africa: The South African Foreign Minister announced that the cabinet will boycott Israel and will not visit it. The South African Trade and Commerce Union stopped importing an Israeli-made circumcision device.

Britain:
◦UK major retail chain, the Co-operative, has boycotted all products produced in the settlements in the West Bank and occupied Jerusalem.
◦Marks & Spencer fashion house has been boycotting settlement products since 2007 .

Ireland:
◦The Irish workers’ trade Union has announced its decision to boycott all Israeli products and services.
◦The Irish teachers’ Union supports imposing an academic boycott on Israel.

Canada:
◦The Canadian postal workers Union boycotts Israel.
◦The Protestant Church in Vancouver launched a campaign to boycott settlement products.

United States:
◦The American Studies Association has recently joined the academic boycott imposed against Israel by many universities and unions.

The American Pension Fund has withdrawn its investments from a company that sell agricultural

I would call for a boycott on products made by muslims if muslims were capable of producing something that could help humanity.

It appears the only inventions from muslims in the last decade is the bomb you stick up your ass, the shoe bomber and the undie bomber, they are all 100% Islamic inventions.

Firing rockets into Israel is a war crime, when muslims stop doing war crimes i might have some sympathy for the Palestinians.
Israel has the right to defend itself.

building settlements on other people's property is not self defense Baron.

Do you have anything to say on the topic?

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 5:13pm:

Do you have anything to say on the topic?

If muslims want to boycott Israel then they should go back to sending messages the traditional Islamic way which is on the back of a camel or use carrier pidgeons.

The USB flash drive memory patent is held by an Israeli Jew, throw away all your USB memory sticks and all software/hardware created by jews.

If you go into hospital for a colonoscopy you cannot let them use that camera which was invented by a jew.

The precision weapons guidance systems in our FA18 are Israeli technology, the drones we use were made in Israel.

The muslims dont make anything apart from mosques and bombs.

Around 70 percent of  all refugees, which amounts to 10,792,095, around the world originated from Muslim countries.
islamic Human Rights Commission figures 2010

U.N.H.C.R.figures 2013 More than half (55%) of all refugees worldwide came from five countries: Afghanistan, Somalia, Iraq, the Syrian Arab Republic, and Sudan.

In all of these links we see that muslims are causing the worlds refugee problems, all they do is kill people and blame everybody else.

Palestine: (Jewish Perspective)
Quote:

Short Extracts below found here The Palestinian Problems caused by fellow muslims: 7 Arab nations decided to attack the fledgling Jewish microstate with public proclamations of Jewish extermination. It was surrounding these events that the Palestinian Arab refugee problem was born: "According to official records of the League of Nations and Arab census figure 539,000 Arabs left Israel at the urging of 7 converging Arab armies so that they would not be in the way of their attack. They promised the fleeing Arabs they would return and move into the Jews' houses after the anticipated successful annihilation of the Jews. 850,000 Jews were ejected from the Arab countries where they had lived for hundreds of years[b]. This included successful people whose property and assets, including community assets were immediately confiscated. [b]750,000 penniless Jews from Arab countries fled to Israel. "This was a virtual exchange of population. The Jewish refugees were immediately accepted by the new State of Israel. They were provided with shelter (albeit temporary tents) food and clothing. "The Arab refugees who had migrated to various Arab nations were not similarly well received. They were regarded not as Arab brothers but as unwelcome migrants who were not to be trusted.The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, THEY ABANDONED THEM, FORCED THEM TO EMIGRATE AND TO LEAVE THEIR HOMELAND,[b]  The Arab States succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did not recognize them as a unified people until the States of the world did so [B] London Times, May 5, 1948 The refugees were confident that their absence would not last long, and that they would return within a week or two. Their leaders had promised them that the Arab armies would crush the 'Zionist gangs' very quickly and that there was no need for panic or fear of a long exile." Monsignor George Hakim, Greek Catholic Bishop of Galilee, in the Beirut newspaper Sada al Janub, August 16, 1948 Of the 62,000 Arabs who formerly lived in Haifa not more than 5,000 or 6,000 remained. Various factors influenced their decision to seek safety in flight. There is but little doubt that the most potent of the factors were the announcements made over the air by the -Higher Arab Executive, urging the Arabs to quit.. . . It was clearly intimated that those Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as renegades." The London weekly Economist, October 2, 1948 It must not be forgotten that the Arab Higher Committee encouraged the refugees' flight from their homes in Jaffa, Haifa, and Jerusalem." Near East Arabic Broadcasting Station, Cyprus, April 3, 1949 This wholesale exodus was due partly to the belief of the Arabs, encouraged by the boasting of an unrealistic Arab press and the irresponsible utterances of some of the Arab leaders that it could be only a matter of some weeks before the Jews were defeated by the armies of the Arab States and the Palestinian Arabs enabled to re-enter and retake possession of their country." Edward Atiyah (then Secretary of the Arab League Office in London) in The Arabs (London, 1955), p. 183[B] The mass evacuation, prompted partly by fear, partly [B]by order of Arab leaders, left the Arab quarter of Haifa a ghost city...By withdrawing Arab workers their leaders hoped to paralyze Haifa.". Time, May 3, 1948, p. 25 The Arab exodus, initially at least, was encouraged by many Arab leaders, such as Haj Amin el Husseini, the exiled pro-Nazi Mufti of Jerusalem, and by the Arab Higher Committee for Palestine. They viewed the first wave of Arab setbacks as merely transitory. Let the Palestine Arabs flee into neighboring countries. It would serve to arouse the other Arab peoples to greater effort, and when the Arab invasion struck, the Palestinians could return to their homes and be compensated with the property of Jews driven into the sea. Emil Ghoury, Secretary of the Arab Higher Committee, the official leadership of the Palestinian Arabs, in the Beirut newspaper, Daily Telegraph, September 6, 1948 The Arab States encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies.

Continued Below

Quote:

The Arab States encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies. Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Said, quoted in Sir Am Nakbah ("The Secret Behind the Disaster") by Nimr el Hawari, Nazareth, 1952 The Secretary General of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, assured the Arab peoples that the occupation of Palestine and of Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade. . . . He pointed out that they were already on the frontiers and that all the millions the Jews had spent on land and economic development would be easy booty, for it would be a simple matter to throw Jews into the Mediterranean. Brotherly advice was given to the Arabs of Palestine to leave their land, homes,and property and to stay temporarily in neighboring fraternal states, lest the guns of the invading Arab armies mow them down. Arab Higher Committee, in a memorandum to the Arab League, Cairo, 1952, quoted in The Refugee in the World, by Joseph B. Schechtman, 1963 The Arab governments told us: Get out so that we can get in. So we got out, but they did not get in." Khaled al Azm, Syria's Prime Minister after the 1948 war As early as the first months of 1948 the Arab League issued orders exhorting the people to seek a temporary refuge in neighboring countries, later to return to their abodes in the wake of the victorious Arab armies and obtain their share of abandoned Jewish property." - bulletin of The Research Group for European Migration Problems, 1957 History of it all The refugee problem was created in 1947-48,. But the major reason for the displacement of people was the war itself, which the Arabs imposed on Israel in an attempt to abort its birth. Israel, at a terrible economic cost, absorbed the 800,000 Jewish refugees But the Arab nations refused to accept these Arab refugees When Israel inherited Judea and Samaria (the "West Bank") and Gaza in the 1967 War, Israel also inherited the Palestinian refugee camps that were administered by a United Nations agency. Israel wanted to negotiate both the refugee problem and a peace settlement, but the Arabs refused. For 19 years, until 1967, Jordan brutally occupied the renamed "West Bank" with its 20 UNWRA refugee camps.... And when western Palestinians rioted in December '55, April '57, April '63, Nov. '66 and April '67, King Hussein sent in tanks which shelled city streets and machine gunned people at random, killing hundreds of men, women and children. The Gaza Strip, as it was known for the 19 years of harsh Egyptian occupation, had 8 UNWRA refugee camps in which the Palestinians were forced to live in overcrowded squalor. Egypt refused to absorb any refugees; kept them stateless, denied passports, and forbade them to travel or work in Egypt. On the other hand, Palestinians were permitted to work in Israel after 1967. For 19 years of brutal occupation of their fellow Arabs, Jordan and Egypt kept these areas in a deliberate state of economic stagnation and severe unemployment. Average unemployment in the early Sixties ran between 35-45%, and refugee unemployment hit a high of 83%. Yet during this entire period, the world was silent. Only after Israel's seizure of these territories in a defensive war in 1967, did anyone discover the "legitimate rights and national aspirations" of the Palestinian Arabs. The surrounding Arabs states called for the Arab population to leave Israel and fight in the 1948 war ("a war of extermination and a momentous massacre"). Those that left were told that they could come back and take all the Jews possessions. Those that stayed were told they would be killed with the Jews. The Real Refugees Most of the world is ignoring the real catastrophe of the past recent era: the brutal expulsion of some 867,000 Jews from Arab countries, and the seizure, by the Arab governments, of over $13-billion worth of Jewish property and assets. Algeria During the war for Algerian independence from France in the 1950s and early 1960s, Algerian nationalists carried out violent attacks on Algerian Jews. After the French left, the Algerian authorities issued a variety of anti- Jewish decrees, including the imposition of heavy taxes on the Jewish community. Nearly all of Algeria's 160,000 Jews fled the country. All but one of Algeria's synagogues were seized and turned into mosques. Egypt The ancient Jewish community of Egypt numbered over 90,000 by the 1940s. Riots by Egyptian nationalists in 1945 claimed many Jewish lives, and synagogues and Jewish buildings were burned down. A new wave of discrimination and violence was unleashed in 1948. Over 250 Jews were killed or injured, Jewish shops were looted, and Jewish assets were frozen. Some 35,000 Jews left Egypt by 1950. Gamal Abdel Nasser, who seized power in 1954, arrested thousands of Jews and confiscated their property. Emigration reduced Egyptian Jewry to just 8,000 by 1957.

continued below

Quote:

Iraq The Jews of Iraq, with roots dating back to ancient Babylonia, numbered about 190,000 in 1947. When Israel was established, Jewish emigration was forbidden, and hundreds of Jews were jailed. Those convicted of "Zionism" --a criminal offense-- were sentenced to internal exile or fines of up to $40,000 each. Tens of thousands of Jews slipped out of the country. Then, in 1950, the government legalized emigration and pressured the Jews to leave; by 1952, only 6,000 remained. Jewish emigrants were permitted to take with them only $140 per adult; all of their remaining assets and property were confiscated by the Iraqi government. Libya The 2,000 year-old Jewish community of Libya, which numbered almost 60,000 by the 1940s, was the target of mass anti-Jewish violence in November 1945. In Tripoli alone, 120 Jews were massacred, over 500 wounded, 2,000 were made homeless, and synagogues were torched. There were more pogroms in January 1946, with 75 Jews massacred in Zanzur, and more than 100 murdered in other towns. By the early 1950s, more than 40,000 Libyan Jews had emigrated. Morocco In 1948, there were about 350,000 Jews living in Morocco, a community with ancient roots going back to the time of the destruction of the First Temple (586 BCE). In June 1948, pogromists massacred 39 Jews in the town of Djerada and 4 more in Oujda. Over 50,000 Jews fled Morocco in terror. During the 1950s, there was violence against Jews in Oujda, Rabat, and Casablanca. Most of Moroccan Jewry emigrated during the years to follow. Syria There were 17,000 Jews in Syria in 1948, a community dating back to biblical times. Anti-Jewish pogroms erupted in the Syrian town of Aleppo in 1947. All of the local synagogues were destroyed, and 7,000 of the town's 10,000 Jews fled in terror. The government then enacted legislation to freeze Jewish bank accounts and confiscate Jewish property. By the 1950s, just 5,000 Jews remained in Syria, subjected to harsh decrees; they were banned from emigrating, selling their property, or working in government offices, and were compelled to carry special cards identifying them as Jews.

What is wrong with muslims,they are the enemy of all mankind, slaughtering non-muslims, wives and daughters, muslims they disagree with, child sex, inbreeding,backward 7th century mentality etc.etc.

Will they ever wake up?

I don't believe so islam, allah, muhammad, qur'an, made them exactly what they are today, they will never change, because islam would simply implode if they went outside / questioned the guidelines, responsible for who they are today.

Stratos wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 3:07pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 11th, 2014 at 1:58pm: Moslem = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth." you sure you got that right?  I have never heard that before.  Even from you

Stratos,

I know that you totally reject the concept of moslems being 'holy' liars and deceivers for Allah.


DECEIT EXAMPLE #1;

GOOD MOSLEM SPEAKS TO NON-MOSLEM AUDIENCE
A UK moslem *community leader*, speaking in the wake of the London 7/7 bombing;
"We condemn the killing of all innocent civilians."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article552594.ece

#1,
THE KICKER...
"...Later when he addressed his own followers he explained that he had in fact been referring only to Muslims as only they were innocent: "Yes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar." "







Moslem = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."

Stratos wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 3:07pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 11th, 2014 at 1:58pm: Moslem = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth." you sure you got that right?  I have never heard that before.  Even from you

Stratos,

I know that you totally reject the concept of moslems being 'holy' liars and deceivers for Allah.


DECEIT EXAMPLE #2;


Quote:

Live in peace till strong enough to wage jihad, says UK Deoband scholar to Muslims London, Sept.8 [2007] A Deobandi scholar believes Muslims should preach peace till they are strong enough to undertake a jihad, or a holy war. Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani was quoted by the BBC as saying that Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, only until they gain enough power to engage in battle. A former Sharia judge in Pakistan's Supreme Court, 64-year-old Usmani, is...a regular visitor to Britain. Polite and softly spoken.... He agreed that it was wrong to suggest that the entire non-Muslim world was intent on destroying Islam, but justifies an aggressive military jihad as a means of establishing global Islamic supremacy.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2409833.ece







Moslem = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."

Stratos wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 3:07pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 11th, 2014 at 1:58pm: Moslem = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth." you sure you got that right?  I have never heard that before.  Even from you

Stratos,

I know that you totally reject the concept of moslems being 'holy' liars and deceivers for Allah.


DECEIT EXAMPLE #3;


Quote:

A body representing British 'mainstream' moslems, The Muslim Council of Britain, declares on its website, that ISLAM is a philosophy which condemns extremism and violence.... [quote] Rejecting Terror Thursday, 11 April 2013 Muslims everywhere consider all acts of terrorism that aims to murder and maim innocent human beings utterly reprehensible and abhorrent. There is no theological basis whatsoever for such acts in our faith. The very meaning of the word 'Islam' is peace. It rejects terror and promotes peace and harmony.

http://www.mcb.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2307:mcbnewstemplate&catid=82:mcb-news
http://www.mcb.org.uk/article_detail.php?article=announcement-656





ISLAMIC law....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."





FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260




"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

[/quote]







Moslem = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 2:22pm:

try again... polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 11th, 2014 at 12:24pm: So Yadda, your solution is for these people to uproot themselves from their farms and homes and livelihood and camp themselves into another country that doesn't even want them?

gandalf,

Even infidels who run Zoo's know that you cannot keep sheep and wolves in the same enclosure.

Moslems are human predators, upon other human beings.

Moslems deny it [...to the 'sheep'].

But ISLAMIC foundation texts [the Koran and the Hadith] declare it.







+++

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29




ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06






Quote:

Here, for example, are two very illuminating passages from the canonical Life of Mohammed by Ibn Ishaq, as translated by A. Guillaume, and a third passage, from the earliest known Muslim historian. Ishaq: 204 - "'Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man [Muhammad]?' 'Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.'" Ishaq:231 - "Muslims are one ummah (community) to the exclusion of all men. Believers are friends of one another to the exclusion of all outsiders." And here is Al-Tabari, a very early Muslim historian, in book 9, chapter or section 69, reporting words that Muslims believe to have been said by Mohammed himself - "Killing infidels is a small matter to us". These texts are not fossils from a distant past. They are not dead letters. They are still 'live' and carry tremendous weight in the imagination and practice of many Muslims around the world. ...DDA

Google it.



ISLAM IS A MURDEROUS DEATH CULT


Quote:

"....the death of those who are killed for the cause of God gives more impetus to the cause, which continues to thrive on their blood."

ISLAMIC scholar, Sayyid Qutb





ISLAM IS A MURDEROUS DEATH CULT

CAUSE?;

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260



EFFECT?;


Quote:

February 5, 2008 70-year-old woman, convert from Islam to Christianity, burned to death in Bangladesh ....DHAKA, BANGLADESH (BosNewsLife)-- Christian villagers in a Muslim-majority area of Bangladesh on Tuesday, February 5, mourned the death of a 70-year-old woman who died from burns she suffered when a mob reportedly set her home ablaze as a punishment for converting from Islam to Christianity.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/019813.php

Yadda wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 8:08pm:

Moslem = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."

Source?

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 8:30pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 11th, 2014 at 8:08pm: Moslem = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth." Source?

Moslem = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."
- Yadda




By definition [of behaviour], moslems are the Kuffar [the very 'Kuffar', that moslems claim to despise].

Moslems are liars and deceivers, haters of what is true - those that HATE God.




kuffar = = infidel = = a person who hides, denies, or covers the truth = = liars
= = MOSLEMS

"Dear muslim, YOU are the kuffar"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1229682951/0#0

Quote:

You who embrace ISLAM, your own lies and deception, have become a witness against you, before God...... "kuffar" = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."

Yadda, as much as you have researched Islam, I'm not quite sure you attained a level of the arabic language.

Where does it say that Muslim translates to  a person who hides, denies, or covers the truth?

Stratos wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 8:49pm:

Yadda, as much as you have researched Islam, I'm not quite sure you attained a level of the arabic language.

Stratos,

'I can read and write, and i know which way is up.'

And i do not need to be fluent in Arabic, to know that moslems are inveterate liars and deceivers.



Quote:

A body representing British 'mainstream' moslems, The Muslim Council of Britain, declares on its website, that ISLAM is a philosophy which condemns extremism and violence.... [quote] Rejecting Terror Thursday, 11 April 2013 Muslims everywhere consider all acts of terrorism that aims to murder and maim innocent human beings utterly reprehensible and abhorrent. There is no theological basis whatsoever for such acts in our faith. The very meaning of the word 'Islam' is peace. It rejects terror and promotes peace and harmony.

http://www.mcb.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2307:mcbnewstemplate&catid=82:mcb-news
http://www.mcb.org.uk/article_detail.php?article=announcement-656





ISLAMIC law....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."





FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260




"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

[/quote]i




Stratos wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 8:49pm:

Where does it say that Muslim translates to  a person who hides, denies, or covers the truth?

Duh, duh, duh!!!!



Stratos,

Where does it say that a person like yourself, should be entitled to elect lawmakers !!!

Stratos = = wilfully ignorant [......pretends to be!]
- Yadda

Thanks for that Yadda.

So is it true or are you just making things up as you go along now?

moses wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 6:49pm:

[quote] .......What is wrong with muslims,they are the enemy of all mankind, slaughtering non-muslims, wives and daughters, muslims they disagree with, child sex, inbreeding,backward 7th century mentality etc.etc. Will they ever wake up? I don't believe so islam, allah, muhammad, qur'an, made them exactly what they are today, they will never change, because islam would simply implode if they went outside / questioned the guidelines, responsible for who they are today.

I don't believe so either, moses.




Yadda wrote on Jan 25^th, 2014 at 12:41pm:

....not a single moslem will be redeemed by my God. Hallelujah! Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. Revelation 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: 2  For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. Dictionary; Muslim = = a follower of Islam.

Not a single moslem will be redeemed by my God.

Moslems wouldn't enjoy being in paradise anyway.
....too many Jews Zionists there.






+++



Psalms 129:5
Let them all be confounded and turned back that hate Zion.

To the Israelites, God said....
Leviticus 25:23
The land shall not be sold for ever: FOR THE LAND IS MINE; for ye are strangers and sojourners with me.

Joel 1:6
For a nation is come up upon MY LAND,...

Joel 2:18
Then will the LORD be jealous for HIS LAND, and pity his people.

Joel 3:2
I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted MY LAND.

Zechariah 12:2
Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
3  And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

Isaiah 14:26
This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.
27  For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?

Isaiah 51:17
Awake, awake, stand up, O Jerusalem, which hast drunk at the hand of the LORD the cup of his fury; thou hast drunken the dregs of the cup of trembling, and wrung them out.
18  There is none to guide her among all the sons whom she hath brought forth; neither is there any that taketh her by the hand of all the sons that she hath brought up.
19  These two things are come unto thee; who shall be sorry for thee? desolation, and destruction, and the famine, and the sword: by whom shall I comfort thee?
20  Thy sons have fainted, they lie at the head of all the streets, as a wild bull in a net: they are full of the fury of the LORD, the rebuke of thy God.
21  Therefore hear now this, thou afflicted, and drunken, but not with wine:
22  Thus saith thy Lord the LORD, and thy God that pleadeth the cause of his people, Behold, I have taken out of thine hand the cup of trembling, even the dregs of the cup of my fury; thou shalt no more drink it again:
23  But I will put it into the hand of them that afflict thee; which have said to thy soul, Bow down, that we may go over: and thou hast laid thy body as the ground, and as the street, to them that went over.

Isaiah 52:1
Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.
2  Shake thyself from the dust; arise, and sit down, O Jerusalem: loose thyself from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion.
3  For thus saith the LORD, Ye have sold yourselves for nought; and ye shall be redeemed without money.

Psalms 122:6
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.

Stratos wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 10:09pm:

Thanks for that Yadda. So is it true or are you just making things up as you go along now?

As i said;

Stratos = = wilfully ignorant [......pretends to be!]
- Yadda



And;

Stratos = = unrepentant friend of wanna-be murderers, and liars.
- Yadda

Yadda wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 10:31pm:

Stratos = = unrepentant friend of wanna-be murderers, and liars.

Go on Yadda, you know how this goes.  Show some evidence I support murderers and liars. 

nevermind that you support ACTUAL murderers, those who commit genocide, kill babies.

I'm just asking where you got your definition of Muslim previously, and there is nothing to suggest that the word means what you said!

Stratos wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 10:35pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 11th, 2014 at 10:31pm: Stratos = = unrepentant friend of wanna-be murderers, and liars. Go on Yadda, you know how this goes.  Show some evidence I support murderers and liars.  nevermind that you support ACTUAL murderers, those who commit genocide, kill babies. I'm just asking where you got your definition of Muslim previously, and there is nothing to suggest that the word means what you said!

What we believe determines how we will act.

Our choices, and how we act, defines who we are.



Our actions confirm our morality and what we believe.

Dictionary;
morality = =
1 principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behaviour.       a system of values and moral principles.
2 the extent to which an action is right or wrong.



Moslems are wanna-be murderers, imo.

Moslems willingly [remain members of, and] follow a philosophy which teaches them [moslems], that it is lawful for them [moslems], to kill those who do not believe what they [moslems] believe.

And a moslem, is a person who chooses to follow a philosophy, which teaches moslems, that it is lawful for them [moslems] to either subjugate [i.e. enslave], or murder, all of mankind - IN THE NAME OF ISLAM.


Stratos = = panderer appeaser of murderers and liars.
- Yadda




+++

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29




ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06






Quote:

Here, for example, are two very illuminating passages from the canonical Life of Mohammed by Ibn Ishaq, as translated by A. Guillaume, and a third passage, from the earliest known Muslim historian. Ishaq: 204 - "'Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man [Muhammad]?' 'Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.'" Ishaq:231 - "Muslims are one ummah (community) to the exclusion of all men. Believers are friends of one another to the exclusion of all outsiders." And here is Al-Tabari, a very early Muslim historian, in book 9, chapter or section 69, reporting words that Muslims believe to have been said by Mohammed himself - "Killing infidels is a small matter to us". These texts are not fossils from a distant past. They are not dead letters. They are still 'live' and carry tremendous weight in the imagination and practice of many Muslims around the world. ...DDA

Google it.




ISLAM IS A MURDEROUS DEATH CULT


Quote:

"....the death of those who are killed for the cause of God gives more impetus to the cause, which continues to thrive on their blood."

ISLAMIC scholar, Sayyid Qutb

I'm assuming your refusal to answer the question of what the word Islam means, must indicate you lied or made it up. 

Goodo, enjoy practicing taqiyya Yadda, you are getting extremely common with your practice of intentionally trying to deceive people.

Stratos wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 10:58pm:

I'm assuming your refusal to answer the question of what the word Islam means, must indicate you lied or made it up.

My understanding, is that the word 'ISLAM' means, 'to submit'.

It is my belief that moslems have submitted themselves, to SATAN [posing as the God of creation].


2 Thessalonians 2:9
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Jeremiah 9:3
And they bend their tongues like their bow for lies: but they are not valiant for the truth upon the earth; for they proceed from evil to evil, and they know not me, saith the LORD.
4  Take ye heed every one of his neighbour, and trust ye not in any brother: for every brother will utterly supplant, and every neighbour will walk with slanders.
5  And they will deceive every one his neighbour, and will not speak the truth: they have taught their tongue to speak lies, and weary themselves to commit iniquity.
6  Thine habitation is in the midst of deceit; through deceit they refuse to know me, saith the LORD.i
Quote:

Goodo, enjoy practicing taqiyya Yadda, you are getting extremely common with your practice of intentionally trying to deceive people.

I'm not trying to deceive people Stratos.

And i am not a person who chooses to appease and defend wanna-be murderers.

Stratos,

I do not know what your motive is, for wanting to defend ISLAM and moslems.

But i am certain that you do have such a motive - a motive that you have not declared in this forum.

Jesus the prophet, jesus the man, jesus the God, jesus the son of God, jesus is three people in 1, no wonder I hear everyday people leaving Christianity cause its confusing. Even the stories I hear of reverts say that's they are unsure or confused about the Christian beleifs.

1)  John 20:17 "...Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my father and your father, to my God  and your God."

Jesus indicating that he has a God, and that his relationship to God is similar to the relationship of common people with God.  God does not have a God, and would not tell others that his relationship with God is similar to theirs.

2)  Luke 18:19  "'Why do you call me good?' Jesus answered.  'No one is good--except God alone."

Jesus says a) he is not good, and b) God alone   is good.  If Jesus were God he would not differentiate himself from God by stating that he is not good and only God alone  is.

3)  John 17:3  "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only  true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."

This verse clearly shows two separate entities - a)  the "only true God" AND b) Jesus Christ (who was sent by the only true God.)  Only the one who sent Jesus is the true God, meaning Jesus himself can't be God. 



 

wally1 wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 5:16am:

Jesus the prophet, jesus the man, jesus the God, jesus the son of God, jesus is three people in 1, no wonder I hear everyday people leaving Christianity cause its confusing. Even the stories I hear of reverts say that's they are unsure or confused about the Christian beleifs. 1)  John 20:17 "...Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my father and your father, to my God  and your God." Jesus indicating that he has a God, and that his relationship to God is similar to the relationship of common people with God.  God does not have a God, and would not tell others that his relationship with God is similar to theirs. 2)  Luke 18:19  "'Why do you call me good?' Jesus answered.  'No one is good--except God alone." Jesus says a) he is not good, and b) God alone   is good.  If Jesus were God he would not differentiate himself from God by stating that he is not good and only God alone  is. 3)  John 17:3  "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only  true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." This verse clearly shows two separate entities - a)  the "only true God" AND b) Jesus Christ (who was sent by the only true God.)  Only the one who sent Jesus is the true God, meaning Jesus himself can't be God.

wally1,

Does the moslem submit himself to God,    .....or, does the moslem submit himself to the demand for obedience, coming from men [from men within the ummah] ?




The Kingdom of God v The Doctrines of Men
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1382570147/15#15

Quote:

[quote]3)  John 17:3  "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only  true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." This verse clearly shows two separate entities - a)  the "only true God" AND b) Jesus Christ (who was sent by the only true God.)  Only the one who sent Jesus is the true God, meaning Jesus himself can't be God.

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Hosea 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

John 10:30
I and my Father are one.

John 14:8
Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9  Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

[/quote]






John 4:24
God is a Spirit:...

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:...

John 8:23
....Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:...

John 10:30
I and my Father are one.                  [...spirit]

I just love how these conversations with Yadda evolve:

- Yadda starts out by presenting some semi-credible points about the history of the conflict - which gives the illusion that there might be some scope for constructive debate

- I oblige, engaging on these points and ask Yadda to elaborate on these points

- Yadda retreats back into his comfort zone: "Palestinians are at fault because they are muslims and muslims are always evil rar rar rar!"

- Yadda reaches full throttle - letting fly with a barrage of quranic quotes, jihadwatch quotes and as always - google taqqiya - in crayon and multiple posts in a row.

- discussion ends.

wally1 wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 5:16am:

Jesus the prophet, jesus the man, jesus the God, jesus the son of God, jesus is three people in 1, no wonder I hear everyday people leaving Christianity cause its confusing. Even the stories I hear of reverts say that's they are unsure or confused about the Christian beleifs. 1)  John 20:17 "...Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my father and your father, to my God  and your God." Jesus indicating that he has a God, and that his relationship to God is similar to the relationship of common people with God.  God does not have a God, and would not tell others that his relationship with God is similar to theirs. 2)  Luke 18:19  "'Why do you call me good?' Jesus answered.  'No one is good--except God alone." Jesus says a) he is not good, and b) God alone   is good.  If Jesus were God he would not differentiate himself from God by stating that he is not good and only God alone  is. 3)  John 17:3  "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only  true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." This verse clearly shows two separate entities - a)  the "only true God" AND b) Jesus Christ (who was sent by the only true God.)  Only the one who sent Jesus is the true God, meaning Jesus himself can't be God.

People [i.e. 'Christians'] are confused because they are following [the doctrines and teachings of] men.

I do not care which church a person attends, but every Christian should read his Bible [every day, if he/she can]







"The Bible will keep you from sin, or sin will keep you from the Bible."
Dwight L. Moody (American Evangelist, 1837-1899)


Psalms 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.


Psalms 25:8
Good and upright is the LORD: therefore will he teach sinners in the way.
9  The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way.
10  All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.
11  For thy name's sake, O LORD, pardon mine iniquity; for it is great.
12  What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.
13  His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.
14  The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.


John 14:23
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


Psalms 119:2
Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.


Leviticus 19:28
Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.








Popes???

'Papa'?

Obey God!

"....And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."
Matthew 23:1-13


The Problem of Evil
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1304541795/93#93

Quote:

......regards organised religion; If you believe that the Book of Revelation, is the "The Revelation of Jesus Christ," then in that book.... Jesus said... "...thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate." Revelation 2:6 Revelation 2:15 Nicolaitans??? What does that word, Nicolaitans, refer to ? 'Nicolaitan', refers to those who [Nico] 'rule over' or 'conquer', and [the laity] 'the people'. Jesus in Revelation, and, in the Gospels, said that he hated those hypocrites, who use the authority of 'religion' [turning religion into a 'beastly', false, worldly 'spirituality'], so as to rule over men. Almost every religion of man does this. Some religions [more than others] going to extreme lengths, to exert their authority over their adherents/devotees. Matthew 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: Popes??? 'Papa'? "....And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." "...But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in." Matthew 23:1-13

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 6:54am:

I just love how these conversations with Yadda evolve: - Yadda starts out by presenting some semi-credible points about the history of the conflict - which gives the illusion that there might be some scope for constructive debate - I oblige, engaging on these points and ask Yadda to elaborate on these points - Yadda retreats back into his comfort zone: "Palestinians are at fault because they are muslims and muslims are always evil rar rar rar!"

This is old ground gandalf.

But once more, with feeling!........



Quote:

.....who, is a moslem ? A moslem, is a moslem. Dictionary; Muslim = = a follower of Islam. And what is ISLAM ??? And what does ISLAM sanction ? Does ISLAM sanction violence against 'disbelievers', BECAUSE THEY ARE 'DISBELIEVERS' ? And if  ISLAM did sanction violence against 'disbelievers', BECAUSE THEY ARE 'DISBELIEVERS', wouldn't that violence against 'disbelievers' be counted as an expression of 'extremism' ? "And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..." Koran 2.193 "....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith." Koran 2.98 "....those who reject Allah have no protector." Koran 47.008 v. 8-11 "Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Koran 2.216 "O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)." Koran 9.123 "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...." Koran 9.111 "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. " Koran 9.29

gandalf,

In this forum you like to present yourself you try to present yourself, as a reasonable person.

All of your protestations are a 'facade', imo.

Because again, and again, you can't help but reveal what you [really] are.

And you are a moslem.

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.





And what is ISLAM ???

And what does ISLAM sanction ?



"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29



ISLAMIC law....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."





FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

Yadda wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 8:38pm:

Moslem = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth

Don't think pages of unrelated rambling is going to get you out of this.

Now is this true or were you lying?  If it is true show your work

Stratos wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 7:34am:

Yadda wrote on Feb 11th, 2014 at 8:38pm: Moslem = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth Don't think pages of unrelated rambling is going to get you out of this. Now is this true or were you lying?  If it is true show your work

Stratos,

Of course it is true, imo.

Moslem = = Kafir = = "[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."

Kafir is an Arabic term/word, but the word Kafir has a 'universal' definition.

With language, with words, there is always a general consensus among men as to what particular words 'mean'.

And the word 'Kafir' is no different.

ARABS themselves, define the word as meaning; "[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."



By definition [of behaviour], moslems are the Kuffar [the very 'Kuffar', that moslems claim to despise].

Moslems are liars and deceivers, haters of what is true - those that HATE God.




kuffar = = infidel = = a person who hides, denies, or covers the truth = = liars
= = MOSLEMS

"Dear muslim, YOU are the kuffar"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1229682951/0#0

Quote:

You who embrace ISLAM, your own lies and deception, have become a witness against you, before God...... "kuffar" = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."

So Muslim isn't an arabic word that means unbeliever, Kafir is.

How the hell is a Muslim and "unbeliever" by the way, that makes no sense.

Stratos wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 7:53am:

So Muslim isn't an arabic word that means unbeliever, Kafir is. How the hell is a Muslim and "unbeliever" by the way, that makes no sense.

By definition [of behaviour], moslems are the Kuffar.

ARABS themselves, define the word Kafir as meaning; "[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."



Stratos,

Moslems provide us with many, many examples of their deceit,       ....i.e. of 'hiding, denying, of covering, what is true'.

Here is just one example [AGAIN!];


Quote:

A body representing British 'mainstream' moslems, The Muslim Council of Britain, declares on its website, that ISLAM is a philosophy which condemns extremism and violence.... [quote] Rejecting Terror Thursday, 11 April 2013 Muslims everywhere consider all acts of terrorism that aims to murder and maim innocent human beings utterly reprehensible and abhorrent. There is no theological basis whatsoever for such acts in our faith. The very meaning of the word 'Islam' is peace. It rejects terror and promotes peace and harmony.

http://www.mcb.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2307:mcbnewstemplate&catid=82:mcb-news
http://www.mcb.org.uk/article_detail.php?article=announcement-656





ISLAMIC law....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."





FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260




"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

[/quote]

More about Palestine, just for you Gandalf more about muslims loving muslims to death.

The report, which has been ignored by mainstream media and human rights organizations in the West, reveals that 10 Palestinians died in January 2014 in the West Bank and Gaza Strip as a result of anarchy, lawlessness and misuse of weapons.

The report also lists cases of torture and mistreatment in PA and Hamas prisons. ICHR pointed to an increase in the number of torture cases in prisons belonging to the PA's much-feared Preventive Security Service in the West Bank.

During January, ICHR wrote that it received 56 complaints about torture and mistreatment in Palestinian prisons: 36 in the Gaza Strip and 19 in the West Bank. In addition, the human rights organization received innumerable complaints about arbitrary and unlawful arrests of Palestinians by the PA and Hamas.

Go and read more Gandalf it is quite an eye opener.

Gotta love the islamophobes' logic:

- Palestinian leadership are bastards
- Therefore its perfectly justified for Israel to be bastards

or adamant did you actually think that my case somehow hinges on Palestinians being wonderfully treated by their own leaders? Sorry to burst your bubble.

In May 1948, Israel became an independent state after Israel was recognised by the  United Nations as a country in its own right within the Middle East

Israel was attacked on the same day it gained its independence – May 14th. The armies of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq attacked Israel.

The invading Arabs states called for the Arab population to leave Israel, they declared it would be ("a war of extermination and a momentous massacre"). They would drive the Jews into the Mediterranean Sea.

Those that left were told that they could come back and take all the Jews possessions.

Those that stayed were told they would be killed with the Jews.

Although the muslim armies enormously outnumbered the Jews, the muslims were soundly defeated (they were flogged on every front) 

Egypt signed a peace settlement in February 1949, and over the next few months Lebanon, Jordan and Syria did the same culminating in peace in July 1949. Iraq simply withdrew her forces but did not sign any peace settlement.

The truth is muslims caused the Palestinian refugee problem, why don't those muslims (Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq) who caused the problem, take the refugees?

No, instead it's the same old muslim cry, they are innocent victims.

moses wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 11:48am:

Although the muslim armies enormously outnumbered the Jews

Completely false. This is a prevailing myth. The truth is, the entire Arab force available at the war's outset was around 23000, while the jews had some 35000 vastly better trained and better armed troops.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 1:34pm:

moses wrote on Feb 12th, 2014 at 11:48am: Although the muslim armies enormously outnumbered the Jews Completely false. This is a prevailing myth. The truth is, the entire Arab force available at the war's outset was around 23000, while the jews had some 35000 vastly better trained and better armed troops.

hehehehe, methinks you are being a bit sneaky there though technically correct. 

why is it sneaky?

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 1:55pm:

why is it sneaky?

You are perfectly and pedantically correct. 

:-?

Quote:

Completely false. This is a prevailing myth. The truth is, the entire Arab force available at the war's outset was around 23000, while the jews had some 35000 vastly better trained and better armed troops.

A prevailing myth gandalf?

Surely you don't believe that the combined forces of the Arab States was less than that of the single Jewish state?

The facts are:
On the eve of May 14, the Arabs launched an air attack on Tel Aviv, which the Israelis resisted. This action was followed by the invasion of Israel by Arab armies from Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt. Saudi Arabia sent a formation that fought under the Egyptian command.

The muslims intentions were declared: Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League: "It will be a war of annihilation. It will be a momentous massacre in history that will be talked about like the massacres of the Mongols or the Crusades.They would drive the Jews into the Mediterranean Sea".

muslims were told to leave the area, the decree was:

Those that left were told that they could come back and take all the Jews possessions.

Those that stayed were told they would be killed with the Jews. (Higher Arab Executive)

The muslims caused the refugee problem.

They were flogged by a minority force of Jews.

Why don't the muslims fix the problems they caused, instead of lying and blaming everyone else and crying the victim all the time?

moses wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 5:18pm:

Surely you don't believe that the combined forces of the Arab States was less than that of the single Jewish state?

Thats exactly what I believe - because its the truth:


Quote:

On the eve of the war, the available number of Arab troops likely to be committed to war was about 23,000 (10,000 Egyptians, 4,500 Jordanians, 3,000 Iraqis, 3,000 Syrians, 2,000 ALA volunteers, 1,000 Lebanese, and several hundred Saudis), in addition to the irregular Palestinians already present....  The Yishuv had a numerical superiority, with 35,780 mobilised and deployed troops for the Haganah,[92][93] 3,000 of Stern and Irgun, and a few thousand armed settlers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War#Initial_line-up_of_forces
Moreover, the jewish forces were vastly superior in all areas.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 5:30pm:

moses wrote on Feb 12th, 2014 at 5:18pm: Surely you don't believe that the combined forces of the Arab States was less than that of the single Jewish state? Thats exactly what I believe - because its the truth: Quote: On the eve of the war, the available number of Arab troops likely to be committed to war was about 23,000 (10,000 Egyptians, 4,500 Jordanians, 3,000 Iraqis, 3,000 Syrians, 2,000 ALA volunteers, 1,000 Lebanese, and several hundred Saudis), in addition to the irregular Palestinians already present....  The Yishuv had a numerical superiority, with 35,780 mobilised and deployed troops for the Haganah,[92][93] 3,000 of Stern and Irgun, and a few thousand armed settlers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War#Initial_line-up_of_forces Moreover, the jewish forces were vastly superior in all areas.

The only time muslims have defeated the jews in when they did cowardly surprise attacks.

Quote:

The messenger of allah made a raid upon the Banu Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water.He killed those who tried to defend themselves and imprisoned others.On that very day he captured Juwairiya. www.sunnah.com/muslim/32/1

So Mohammad did not wine and dine this jewish woman who became his wife,he captured her!
Muslims today still use Mohammads example with dating.

From your link, the bits you left out-

Quote:

Arab forces at the invasion The 5 Arab states that joined the war were Egypt,Jordan,Syria,Lebanon and Iraq, additional contingents came from Saudi Arabia and Yemen. Jordan 8-12000 strong force,40 artillery pieces and 75 armoured cars, until Jan '48 it was reinforced by the 3000 strong TFJ. Iraq- Initially committed 3000 men. Egypt- !0,000 sent to Palestine Syria- 12,000,10 of their newest planes were ww2 era. Lebanon - 1000. Arab forces after the first truce By the second truce the Egyptians had 20,000 men in the field with 135 tanks and 90 artillery pieces. During the first truce the Iraqis increased their force to 10,000,ultimately the Iraqi force numbered 15,000-18,000men Saudi Arabia 1200 men During the first truce Sudan sent 6 companies of regular troops to fight alongside Egyptians,Yemen and Morocco committed small expeditionary forces

As long as muslims continue tapping there heads on the ground 5 times a day with their asses in the air while facing Mecca they will never beat the jews.

There is a reason why Islamic countries are poor, tapping your head on the ground with your ass in the air is not very productive.
Harvard university did a study on prayer, nobody is listening it is a waste of time.
web.med.harvard.edu/sites/RELEASES/html/3_31STEP.html

moses wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 11:48am:

In May 1948, Israel became an independent state after Israel was recognised by the  United Nations as a country in its own right within the Middle East Israel was attacked on the same day it gained its independence – May 14th. The armies of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq attacked Israel. The invading Arabs states called for the Arab population to leave Israel, they declared it would be ("a war of extermination and a momentous massacre"). They would drive the Jews into the Mediterranean Sea. Those that left were told that they could come back and take all the Jews possessions. Those that stayed were told they would be killed with the Jews. Although the muslim armies enormously outnumbered the Jews, the muslims were soundly defeated (they were flogged on every front)  Egypt signed a peace settlement in February 1949, and over the next few months Lebanon, Jordan and Syria did the same culminating in peace in July 1949. Iraq simply withdrew her forces but did not sign any peace settlement. The truth is muslims caused the Palestinian refugee problem, why don't those muslims (Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq) who caused the problem, take the refugees? No, instead it's the same old muslim cry, they are innocent victims.

moses,

Why should moslems help the 'Palestinians' ?

The fact is, there just isn't enough room in moslem lands [e.g. lands like, uber wealthy Saudi Arabia] to be able to accommodate the homeless 'Palestinians'.

And the fact that it was moslems and moslem states surrounding Israel, that caused the Palestinian refugee problem is besides the point.....            :P



IMAGE
http://www.protestwarrior.com/nimages/signs/large/pw_sign_22.gif
THE TRUTH is, that no moslem will ever countenance
that there is enough room in the Middle East for a non-moslem political entity.


The conflict in the M.E. with the Palestinians, is NOT about land.

The conflict in the M.E. with the Palestinians, is about the intransigence of moslems [in the region] to accept the right of the un-ISLAMIC political entity, Israel, to exist.




AS MOSLEMS, why are moslems refusing to 'take in' into the Ummah, the dispossessed 'Palestinian people'  ???

Have moslems lost all of their pity for their 'Palestinian' brothers and sisters ???

Again, isn't there enough room in Saudi Arabia for the dispossessed 'Palestinians' ?

IMAGE....
http://www.protestwarrior.com/nimages/signs/large/pw_sign_22.gif
LOOK AT THAT MAP [above].

Why can't, why haven't, WHY WON'T, supposedly 'hospitable' moslems, in the moslem nations surrounding Israel, absorb the identified 'Palestinian' refugees, into their own communities ???



CONSIDER; In the wake of WWII, there were millions of refugees and stateless people, in Europe.

Q.
Where did all of those stateless people in Europe go to?

A.
Most of those stateless people [at the conclusion of WWII, and as a consequence of WWII] were absorbed into surrounding nations - in Europe.




Isn't it obvious, that the 'Palestinian' refugee problem, is a contrived problem, and a convenient political 'stick', with which moslems can beat Israel with, upon the world stage of public opinion?

And that is the reason why the problem of 'Palestinian' refugees will never be solved, because it isn't in the political interests of Israel's enemies [ISLAMISTS] to solve the 'Palestinian' refugee 'problem'.

Quote:

Q. Where did all of those stateless people in Europe go to? A. Most of those stateless people [at the conclusion of WWII, and as a consequence of WWII] were absorbed into surrounding nations - in Europe.

Not to mention Australia, Amerika, Canada, New Zealand...

Oh, and a few million went to Palestine. You'd think the Jews could return the favour, no?

Q.
Where are the Palestinians thrown off their land by Israeli settlers meant to go?

A.
Not Europe, Australia, Amerika, Canada, New Zealand or Palestine. Oh no.

Er, what was the question again?

Literally the only argument supporting Israel here is:
arabs treat Palestinians like sh*t, so Israeli oppression is a-ok

Its pathetic.

But no matter, people power will eventually win - people as in non-muslims in the west who are driving this growing boycott and sanction movement.

Israeli oppression is currently surviving on US support alone. The US was also about the last power supporting South African apartheid, but that didn't prevent its collapsed.

Y isn't arguing anything, G. He's simply asking poignant questions.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 10:51am:

Literally the only argument supporting Israel here is: arabs treat Palestinians like sh*t, so Israeli oppression is a-ok Its pathetic.

The argument supporting Israel ?



Are Israelis occupying 'Palestinian' lands???

No.

1/ Historically (WWI),
2/ legally and,
3/ by applying ISLAM's own standards,
...the Israelis [the Jewish people] have an absolute right to the land which they have secured.
Why so???
#1,
War has always been regarded as a huge 'reset button' on property rights.
And prior to WWI, the land which constitutes present day Israel, was not, and never was owned, possessed, or administered under the authority of local 'Palestinians'.
Turkey [the Ottoman empire] 'inherited' the Jewish homeland, which was 'acquired' [by moslems] through warfare / Jihad in the region [in the 600's AD].

see, ISLAM 101
http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101.html



Turkey eventually lawfully lost control over its administered territories in the region, as a consequence of its participation in WWI.
And, those territories also included that land which was previously the ancient Jewish homeland, the land area today known as Israel.

Post WWI, the world powers of that time decided to carve up, as they saw fit, those territories previously administered by Turkey.
And the world powers of that time determined to set aside an area of those territories, a small fraction of those territories, as a national Jewish homeland.
These actions, by world powers, post WWI were lawful.


The Israelis have an absolute right to the land they have secured.
#2,
Moslems themselves declare [and ISLAMIC doctrine confirms] that all non-moslem lands secured by warfare for ISLAM, lawfully belongs to moslems.
And while some may accuse Israel of occupying 'Palestinian' lands, by applying ISLAM's own standards and law, Israel today has legally acquired and defended [what once was] the ancient homeland, of Israel.
Since the war of 1967, a war which Israel did not instigate, Israel has a moral right to all of the land they secured.
And please note that all of 'Israel's wars' in the region, have all been defensive, and were not instigated by Israel.


The 'Palestinian' refugees ?

And as moses pointed out;
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1392025259/43#43

Quote:

......The truth is muslims caused the Palestinian refugee problem, why don't those muslims (Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq) who caused the problem, take the refugees?.......

But those nations wont do that.

Because a solution to the 'Palestinian refugee problem' which leaves the state of Israel in place, is not acceptable to any ISLAMIST - which all moslems are.

A few maps which show what the Jewish people were promised for a homeland, post WWI.


THE BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE - AFTER TURKEY LOST ITS 'TERRITORIES', POST WWI,
...WHICH IS ALSO, THE WHOLE LAND AREA WHICH WAS ORIGINALLY PROMISED TO THE JEWISH PEOPLE, FOR THEIR HOMELAND...
http://www.solarnavigator.net/geography/geography_images/Palestine_British_Mandate_1920.jpg




THE AGREED PARTITION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE
AGAIN, 100 % OF THIS AREA [THE BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE] WAS ORIGINALLY ALLOCATED FOR A JEWISH HOMELAND
...NOW, 70 % FOR ARABS,
...WITH JUST 30 % OF THE ORIGINAL [ALLOCATED] AREA REMAINING FOR A JEWISH HOMELAND - ALL OF THE LAND ON THE WEST BANK OF THE JORDAN
http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/oren/Transjordan%20separation%201922.jpg




THE AGREED PARTITION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE
...70 % FOR ARABS,
...WITH 30 % OF THE ORIGINAL [ALLOCATED] AREA REMAINING FOR A JEWISH HOMELAND - ALL OF THE LAND ON THE WEST BANK OF THE JORDAN
http://zioneocon.blogspot.com/map%20partition%20transjordan.gif


n.b.
There is a 'Palestinian' state.
There is a 'Palestinian' homeland.
It is called Jordan.

But moslems ignore that reality, because that solution to the 'Palestinian refugee problem' would not suit their real [malevolent and malicious] moslem purposes and intent towards the Jewish people.

IMAGE.....
http://www.protestwarrior.com/nimages/signs/large/pw_sign_22.gif
"Abdullah my brother, the Jews have take our land, and we are a homeless people.
WAIL! WAIL! WAIL!
Those dastardly Zionists!!
We want our land back."
/sarc off

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 10:51am:

Literally the only argument supporting Israel here is: arabs treat Palestinians like sh*t, so Israeli oppression is a-ok Its pathetic. But no matter, people power will eventually win - people as in non-muslims in the west who are driving this growing boycott and sanction movement. Israeli oppression is currently surviving on US support alone. The US was also about the last power supporting South African apartheid, but that didn't prevent its collapsed.

I think that you are correct gandalf.

Mankind are stupid, and evil.

The bible says that all mankind will assault lonely, tiny, Israel [and the Jewish people, the remnant, servant of God].

We will see what men do.

And then we will see what God will do.

The God that does not exist.         :D





Joel 3:2
I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted MY LAND.


Zechariah 12:2
Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
3  And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

Yadda wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 12:15pm:

THE BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE - AFTER TURKEY LOST ITS 'TERRITORIES', POST WWI, ...WHICH IS ALSO, THE WHOLE LAND AREA WHICH WAS ORIGINALLY PROMISED TO THE JEWISH PEOPLE, FOR THEIR HOMELAND

ummm.. no. Completely 100% wrong. Please learn your history Y.


Yadda wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 12:15pm:

THE AGREED PARTITION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE

Who "agreed" Yadda? Oh thats right, Lord Balfour and the zionist leaders. Were any of the Palestinians present during this agreement? Did the 10th generation Palestinian farmer eeking out a living west of the Jordan "agree" to abandon his livelihood and his roots so that some jew could take over his land?

As for the "agreement" you speak of, its worth examining the exact text that the zionists agreed to:

"His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country"

Tell me Y, do you consider telling a Palestinian farmer who had lived on the land all his life to kindly abandon his home and livelihood and never return again so that a jew can move in might "prejudice the civil and religious rights" of this man?

gandalf wrote:
Quote:

it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country" Tell me Y, do you consider telling a Palestinian farmer who had lived on the land all his life to kindly abandon his home and livelihood and never return again so that a jew can move in might "prejudice the civil and religious rights" of this man?

Answer your own question gandalf:

Quote:

On the eve of May 14, the Arabs launched an air attack on Tel Aviv, which the Israelis resisted. This action was followed by the invasion of Israel by Arab armies from Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt. Saudi Arabia sent a formation that fought under the Egyptian command. The muslims intentions were declared: Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League: "It will be a war of annihilation. It will be a momentous massacre in history that will be talked about like the massacres of the Mongols or the Crusades.They would drive the Jews into the Mediterranean Sea". muslims were told to leave the area, the decree was: Those that left were told that they could come back and take all the Jews possessions. Those that stayed were told they would be killed with the Jews. (Higher Arab Executive)

You tell me gandalf was the muslim ordered exodus of fellow muslims, from Jewish lands, under the threat of: Go and you can come back and take all the Jews possessions, after the Jews were exterminated, Or, stay and be massacred with the Jews, prejudicial to the civil and religious rights" these muslims?   

Now with regards to the last part of your question: or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country"

I refer you to:

Quote:

The Real Refugees Most of the world is ignoring the real catastrophe of the past recent era: the brutal expulsion of some 867,000 Jews from Arab countries, and the seizure, by the Arab governments, of over $13-billion worth of Jewish property and assets. Algeria During the war for Algerian independence from France in the 1950s and early 1960s, Algerian nationalists carried out violent attacks on Algerian Jews. After the French left, the Algerian authorities issued a variety of anti- Jewish decrees, including the imposition of heavy taxes on the Jewish community. Nearly all of Algeria's 160,000 Jews fled the country. All but one of Algeria's synagogues were seized and turned into mosques. Egypt The ancient Jewish community of Egypt numbered over 90,000 by the 1940s. Riots by Egyptian nationalists in 1945 claimed many Jewish lives, and synagogues and Jewish buildings were burned down. A new wave of discrimination and violence was unleashed in 1948. Over 250 Jews were killed or injured, Jewish shops were looted, and Jewish assets were frozen. Some 35,000 Jews left Egypt by 1950. Gamal Abdel Nasser, who seized power in 1954, arrested thousands of Jews and confiscated their property. Emigration reduced Egyptian Jewry to just 8,000 by 1957. Iraq The Jews of Iraq, with roots dating back to ancient Babylonia, numbered about 190,000 in 1947. When Israel was established, Jewish emigration was forbidden, and hundreds of Jews were jailed. Those convicted of "Zionism" --a criminal offense-- were sentenced to internal exile or fines of up to $40,000 each. Tens of thousands of Jews slipped out of the country. Then, in 1950, the government legalized emigration and pressured the Jews to leave; by 1952, only 6,000 remained. Jewish emigrants were permitted to take with them only $140 per adult; all of their remaining assets and property were confiscated by the Iraqi government. Libya The 2,000 year-old Jewish community of Libya, which numbered almost 60,000 by the 1940s, was the target of mass anti-Jewish violence in November 1945. In Tripoli alone, 120 Jews were massacred, over 500 wounded, 2,000 were made homeless, and synagogues were torched. There were more pogroms in January 1946, with 75 Jews massacred in Zanzur, and more than 100 murdered in other towns. By the early 1950s, more than 40,000 Libyan Jews had emigrated. Morocco In 1948, there were about 350,000 Jews living in Morocco, a community with ancient roots going back to the time of the destruction of the First Temple (586 BCE). In June 1948, pogromists massacred 39 Jews in the town of Djerada and 4 more in Oujda. Over 50,000 Jews fled Morocco in terror. During the 1950s, there was violence against Jews in Oujda, Rabat, and Casablanca. Most of Moroccan Jewry emigrated during the years to follow. Syria There were 17,000 Jews in Syria in 1948, a community dating back to biblical times. Anti-Jewish pogroms erupted in the Syrian town of Aleppo in 1947. All of the local synagogues were destroyed, and 7,000 of the town's 10,000 Jews fled in terror. The government then enacted legislation to freeze Jewish bank accounts and confiscate Jewish property. By the 1950s, just 5,000 Jews remained in Syria, subjected to harsh decrees; they were banned from emigrating, selling their property, or working in government offices, and were compelled to carry special cards identifying them as Jews.

Were the muslim atrocities committed against these Jews, prejudicial to the civil and religious rights" of these Jews?

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 1:22pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 13th, 2014 at 12:15pm: THE BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE - AFTER TURKEY LOST ITS 'TERRITORIES', POST WWI, ...WHICH IS ALSO, THE WHOLE LAND AREA WHICH WAS ORIGINALLY PROMISED TO THE JEWISH PEOPLE, FOR THEIR HOMELAND ummm.. no. Completely 100% wrong. Please learn your history Y. Yadda wrote on Feb 13th, 2014 at 12:15pm: THE AGREED PARTITION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE Who "agreed" Yadda? Oh thats right, Lord Balfour and the zionist leaders. Were any of the Palestinians present during this agreement? Did the 10th generation Palestinian farmer eeking out a living west of the Jordan "agree" to abandon his livelihood and his roots so that some jew could take over his land? As for the "agreement" you speak of, its worth examining the exact text that the zionists agreed to: "His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country" Tell me Y, do you consider telling a Palestinian farmer who had lived on the land all his life to kindly abandon his home and livelihood and never return again so that a jew can move in might "prejudice the civil and religious rights" of this man?

IMAGE.....
http://www.4kingdoms.com/dome-wall.jpg
"......nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."


1948 - 2014 = 66 years

1967 - 2014 = 47 years



gandalf,

The last time i looked, the Dome of the Rock had not been demolished by the Jews/Israelis.

And the last time i looked, many of the moslems who are occupying Judea and Samaria are stoning [and murdering] the Jews/Israelis, at every opportunity.  [AND, moslems have destroyed many Jewish holy sites, or prevented Jewish access.]


Moslems are criminals.

Why so ?

Because moslems have a criminal intent [by OUR laws] towards those who are not moslems.

And the moslems who are resident in the state of Israel have demonstrated their criminal intent [by OUR laws] towards the Jewish people.





polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 12:24pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 11th, 2014 at 8:54am: Moslems will never acknowledge that 'Palestinians' have already been given a whole nation to themselves, formed for that purpose [as a 'homeland']. .....Personally I prefer one free and just state where muslims and jews live together with equal rights, and there is no race-based discrimination. But thats just me.

Moslems have no such intent.



Quote:

"THE RIGHT TO JUDGE" "It is not the function of Islam to compromise with the concepts of Jahiliyya which are current in the world **or to co-exist** in the same land together with a jahili system........"

SAYYID QUTB - ISLAMIC scholar
http://www.islamworld.net/justice.html


The 'Jahiliyya' un-ISLAMIC/secular state is totally incompatible with ISLAM.

And in fact, to devout moslems, the mere *existence* of non-moslem communities is viewed as insulting to the authority of ISLAM.
...because you see, moslems 'deserve' to have 'authority', to rule the whole world, for Allah.



Jahiliyya is a result of the lack of Sharia...


Quote:

"....Jahiliyya is a result of the lack of Sharia law, without which Islam cannot exist;" "...true Islam is a complete system with no room for any element of Jahiliyya" "...all aspects of Jahiliyya...are "evil and corrupt" "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahiliyya#Jahiliyya_in_contemporary_society







"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123


"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111


"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29




gandalf,

I keep posting these quotes from the Koran, which urge and make lawful moslem malevolence against 'disbelievers',
BUT YOU HAVE NOT ONCE DENOUNCED THE KORAN, NOR THE KORANIC OBLIGATION PLACED UPON YOU [AND EVERY OTHER MOSLEM] TO MAKE WAR AGAINST 'DISBELIEVERS' - WHENEVER YOU AS A MOSLEM HAVE SUCH AN OPPORTUNITY [i.e. the political 'strength' to do so].

Could you ever bring yourself to denounce the [contents, and malevolent urgings of] Koran towards those of us who are not moslems, gandalf ?

And if not, what does your reluctance to do so, imply ?

IMAGE.....
http://www.4kingdoms.com/dome-wall.jpg



Yadda wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 1:58pm:

IMAGE..... http://www.4kingdoms.com/dome-wall.jpg "......nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine." 1948 - 2014 = 66 years 1967 - 2014 = 47 years gandalf, The last time i looked, the Dome of the Rock had not been demolished by the Jews/Israelis. And the last time i looked, many of the moslems who are occupying Judea and Samaria are stoning [and murdering] the Jews/Israelis, at every opportunity. [AND, moslems have destroyed many Jewish holy sites, or prevented Jewish access.]

Google;
palestinians burn, desecrate josephs tomb


http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1347877739/186#186
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1347877739/187#187
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1347877739/188#188




Arab vandals desecrate Joseph's Tomb
Gravestone of biblical patriarch ruined despite Palestinian pledge
http://web.archive.org/web/20030618214344/http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31203i

Yadda wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 2:26pm:

Google; palestinians burn, desecrate josephs tomb http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1347877739/186#186 http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1347877739/187#187 http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1347877739/188#188 Arab vandals desecrate Joseph's Tomb Gravestone of biblical patriarch ruined despite Palestinian pledge http://web.archive.org/web/20030618214344/http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31203

Google;
palestinians burn, desecrate josephs tomb


http://www.ziontimes.com/images/israel/20081225_1.jpg
BEFORE



http://godssecret.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/destroyedtomb.jpg
AFTER MOSLEMS DESECRATE THIS JEWISH RELIGIOUS SITE




It makes you PROUD, to be a 'righteous', 'rightly guided' moslem, doesn't it gandalf !

Hey Moses, I have a *STUNNING* confession to make, that I'm sure will just bowl you right over:

Both jews and Palestinians were screwed over by the corrupt arab nations.

Now that we have that off our chest, how about we get back to the actual topic and address the issue of jewish mistreatment of the Palestinians? How about you try and defend the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians and their continued denying their human rights - without going off on to irrelevant tangents.

I see, muslims caused the problems, muslims could quiet easily fix the trouble they caused, but it's all the Jews fault?

Citing the cause and cure of the refugee trouble is a tangent? It's all the Jews fault.

Why don't you ask the muslims to try and be honest and humane for once in their history? They can solve the problems immediately, they could absorb the refugees without a bother.

Oh that's right we are talking about muslims here, you know child sex, inbreeding, terrorism, rape, torture, mass murder, honour killings, discrimination and oppression of anyone they disagree with, etc.etc. But then again it's all the Jews fault.

Tell us what are the muslims going to do about the refugee problem, which they are solely responsible for? (without going off on a muslim exonerating tangent *it's all the Jews fault*)

moses wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 2:58pm:

Citing the cause and cure of the refugee trouble is a tangent? It's all the Jews fault.

We are not talking about refugees. We are talking about the continued dispossession and denial of rights of people on their own land

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 1:22pm:

Tell me Y, do you consider telling a Palestinian farmer who had lived on the land all his life to kindly abandon his home and livelihood and never return again so that a jew can move in might "prejudice the civil and religious rights" of this man?

He certainly does, G. That's exactly what Y is saying.

Applied to his own situation, it means Y would need to become homeless and suck it up if I moved into his house and called it mine - under the "reset button" of war.

Y, you see, is a Kharmic Khristian.

moses wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 2:58pm:

I see, muslims caused the problems, muslims could quiet easily fix the trouble they caused, but it's all the Jews fault? Citing the cause and cure of the refugee trouble is a tangent? It's all the Jews fault. Why don't you ask the muslims to try and be honest and humane for once in their history? They can solve the problems immediately, they could absorb the refugees without a bother.

That's right, M. No need to ask the Israelis to give back Palestinians'  land and property. We should ask the Arabs next door to give them some charity.

I agree. Look at the Aborigines. I have no idea why they haven't moved to New Zealand to live with the Maoris, it's appalling.

gandalf wrote:
Quote:

We are not talking about refugees. We are talking about the continued dispossession and denial of rights of people on their own land

Karnal wrote:
Quote:

That's right, M. No need to ask the Israelis to give back Palestinians'  land and property. We should ask the Arabs next door to give them some charity.

Whatever land the Jews control due to the consequences of:

The creation of Israel / The 1948 invasion by muslims / The 1967 invasion by muslims, is now lawfully theirs.

Particularly what they now own due to both illegal invasions by muslims (1948 / 1967)

muslims caused the problems, the solution is also in muslim hands.

muslims who caused the troubles should accept their islamic brothers, still on Israeli land, it's very simple really.

moses wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 6:43pm:

The creation of Israel / The 1948 invasion by muslims / The 1967 invasion by muslims, is now lawfully theirs.

Right - we're finally getting somewhere.

The land they own now because of the war(s) is now "lawfully" theirs. What do you think comes with "lawful" ownership moses? Responsibility for its inhabitants perhaps?

So we can both agree that Israel now "lawfully" owns the West Bank. There are currently 2.5 million inhabitants who are not Israeli citizens, do not enjoy equal rights under Israeli law, and are routinely subject to punitive actions like forced eviction, restrictions on movement and racial discrimination.

So what do you think moses, do you think a power who "lawfully" owns a territory that has a population of native inhabitants has certain duties and obligations to those inhabitants? International law certainly does. Why does Israel subject these people to racial discrimination? Why doesn't Israel grant these people now living in Israel - Israeli citizenship? Serious question. Another thing international law says - specifically - is that an occupying power is strictly forbidden from transferring part of its population to the occupied territory. The settlements blatantly violate this.

Oh, I don’t think that’s going to wash with M, G.

When he talks about the rules of war, he means subjugating the enemy. Totally. That means their children, and their children’s children.

If they won’t be exiled, they’ll need to be extinguished - in one way or another.

Maybe Y can teach us what the Bible says about this issue.

Karnal wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 7:55pm:

Oh, I don’t think that’s going to wash with M, G. When he talks about the rules of war, he means subjugating the enemy. Totally. That means their children, and their children’s children. If they won’t be exiled, they’ll need to be extinguished - in one way or another. Maybe Y can teach us what the Bible says about this issue.

K,

Do you have anything to add to this conversation/debate ?




+++



US political correctness once again costing lives.
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1377296416/65#65
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1379806836/50#50
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1380162579/0#0

Quote:

ABOVE - Just a typical post by Karnal. A typical post by Karnal, confirming once again, that Karnal is not willing to reveal his real opinions in this forum, on any serious issue. You do not want 'to define', or to debate with others in this forum. Your posts, all of them, reveal your intent. Dictionary; obfuscate = = 1 make unclear or unintelligible. 2 bewilder.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 7:33pm:

moses wrote on Feb 13th, 2014 at 6:43pm: The creation of Israel / The 1948 invasion by muslims / The 1967 invasion by muslims, is now lawfully theirs. Right - we're finally getting somewhere. The land they own now because of the war(s) is now "lawfully" theirs. What do you think comes with "lawful" ownership moses? Responsibility for its inhabitants perhaps? So we can both agree that Israel now "lawfully" owns the West Bank. There are currently 2.5 million inhabitants who are not Israeli citizens, do not enjoy equal rights under Israeli law, and are routinely subject to punitive actions like forced eviction, restrictions on movement and racial discrimination. So what do you think moses, do you think a power who "lawfully" owns a territory that has a population of native inhabitants has certain duties and obligations to those inhabitants? International law certainly does. Why does Israel subject these people to racial discrimination? Why doesn't Israel grant these people now living in Israel - Israeli citizenship? Serious question. Another thing international law says - specifically - is that an occupying power is strictly forbidden from transferring part of its population to the occupied territory. The settlements blatantly violate this.

Moslems are criminals.

The moslem community [in Israel], are a community of criminals [by our laws, and by Israeli laws].

Why so ?

Because the moslem community [in Israel], are intent on destroying the state of Israel.




As per......


Quote:

"A Muslim community disproportionately involved in criminal behaviour targeted at non-Islamic people but which refuses to acknowledge any communal responsibility and claims instead to be the victim of a conspiracy; a society that refuses to acknowledge the religious and cultural wellspring of that behaviour and which condemns instead those who express concern about its consequences; where have we heard all this before? Whether in response to threats to life and liberty from within or without, Britain is still sleepwalking off the edge of a cliff." - MELANIE PHILLIPS

http://phillipsblog.dailymail.co.uk/2012/05/ithe-horrific-consequences-of-the-islamophobia-witch-hunt.html

And the same principle applies to moslem community, whether it is in the UK, or in Israel.



Yadda said....

Quote:

Moslems are criminals. Why so ? Because moslems have a criminal intent [by OUR laws] towards those who are not moslems. And the moslems who are resident in the state of Israel have demonstrated their criminal intent [by OUR laws] towards the Jewish people.

Supplementary information regarding territory held by the Israelis.....


islam and jews
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1299665041/39#39

Quote:

......international law allows nations who are attacked [e.g. the state of Israel, 1948, 1967, 1973], to occupy and annex land that was previously recognised as being a part of another state [e.g. Arab states, 1948] because of aggression and attacks, upon a neighbouring state [Israel, 1948]. And international laws does not prohibit a state which was attacked [e.g. the state of Israel, 1948], from occupying and annexing the lands of an aggressor, so as to prevent further attacks. ......"ISRAEL AND INTERNATIONAL LAW....Israel’s presence in all these areas pending negotiation of new borders is entirely lawful, since Israel entered them lawfully in self-defence. International law forbids acquisition by unlawful force, but not where, as in the case of Israel’s self-defence in 1967, the entry on the territory was lawful. It does not so forbid it, ....for the effect of such prohibition would be to guarantee to all potential aggressors that, even if their aggression failed, all territory lost in the attempt would be automatically returned to them. Such a rule would be absurd to the point of lunacy. There is no such rule..." http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/?p=1528

Yadda wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 8:14pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 13th, 2014 at 7:55pm: Oh, I don’t think that’s going to wash with M, G. When he talks about the rules of war, he means subjugating the enemy. Totally. That means their children, and their children’s children. If they won’t be exiled, they’ll need to be extinguished - in one way or another. Maybe Y can teach us what the Bible says about this issue. K, Do you have anything to add to this conversation/debate ? +++ US political correctness once again costing lives. http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1377296416/65#65 http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1379806836/50#50 http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1380162579/0#0 Quote: ABOVE - Just a typical post by Karnal. A typical post by Karnal, confirming once again, that Karnal is not willing to reveal his real opinions in this forum, on any serious issue. You do not want 'to define', or to debate with others in this forum. Your posts, all of them, reveal your intent. Dictionary; obfuscate = = 1 make unclear or unintelligible. 2 bewilder.

I said the Bible, Y.

You’ve quoted yourself.

Yadda wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 8:22pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 13th, 2014 at 7:33pm: moses wrote on Feb 13th, 2014 at 6:43pm: The creation of Israel / The 1948 invasion by muslims / The 1967 invasion by muslims, is now lawfully theirs. Right - we're finally getting somewhere. The land they own now because of the war(s) is now "lawfully" theirs. What do you think comes with "lawful" ownership moses? Responsibility for its inhabitants perhaps? So we can both agree that Israel now "lawfully" owns the West Bank. [highlight]There are currently 2.5 million inhabitants who are not Israeli citizens, do not enjoy equal rights under Israeli law, and are routinely subject to punitive actions like forced eviction, restrictions on movement and racial discrimination. So what do you think moses, do you think a power who "lawfully" owns a territory that has a population of native inhabitants has certain duties and obligations to those inhabitants? International law certainly does. Why does Israel subject these people to racial discrimination? Why doesn't Israel grant these people now living in Israel - Israeli citizenship? Moslems are criminals. The moslem community [in Israel], are a community of criminals [by our laws, and by Israeli laws]. Why so ? Because the moslem community [in Israel], are intent on destroying the state of Israel. As per...... Quote: "A Muslim community disproportionately involved in criminal behaviour targeted at non-Islamic people but which refuses to acknowledge any communal responsibility and claims instead to be the victim of a conspiracy; a society that refuses to acknowledge the religious and cultural wellspring of that behaviour and which condemns instead those who express concern about its consequences; where have we heard all this before? Whether in response to threats to life and liberty from within or without, Britain is still sleepwalking off the edge of a cliff." - MELANIE PHILLIPS http://phillipsblog.dailymail.co.uk/2012/05/ithe-horrific-consequences-of-the-islamophobia-witch-hunt.html And the same principle applies to moslem community, whether it is in the UK, or in Israel. Yadda said.... [quote] Moslems are criminals. Why so ? Because moslems have a criminal intent [by OUR laws] towards those who are not moslems. And the moslems who are resident in the state of Israel have demonstrated their criminal intent [by OUR laws] towards the Jewish people.

Does this answer your question, G?

Not only should they have their land and homes taken, they should be prosecuted as criminals - for intent.

Better Google that one, G.

Karnal wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 10:00pm:

Not only should they have their land and homes taken, they should be prosecuted as criminals - for intent.

A moslem, is a moslem.

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.


And what behaviour in moslems does ISLAM,
1/ encourage,
2/ sanction, and,
3/ make lawful ???



http://quran.com/9/123


"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123


"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111


"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29




IMAGE...
http://images.smh.com.au/2012/09/15/3637564/art-protest3-620x349.jpg
Sydney CBD, 2012, moslem street protests.
Moslems, demanding the right to exercise their 'religious freedom'.
Moslems, demanding the right to 'practise their religion'.
Moslems, proclaiming their 'religious' right to murder persons [who are not moslems, and] who 'offend' moslems, by refusing to believe as they [moslems] believe.

AND MAKE NO MISTAKE, THAT, IS WHAT ISLAM TEACHES, ...TO ALL MOSLEMS [FROM CHILDHOOD].




K,

Declaring yourself a moslem [i.e. a follower of Islam], seems like an expression of 'criminal intent' to me.

Not to you, Y. The Palestinians are guilty of intent (by OUR laws). Remember?

Lucky we don’t let them have their own laws. They’d probably try to establish property rights or something equally ridiculous.

Guilty as charged, Y - of being Moslems = a follower of Islam.

Karnal wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 10:41pm:

Not to you, Y. The Palestinians are guilty of intent (by OUR laws). Remember? Lucky we don’t let them have their own laws. They’d probably try to establish property rights or something equally ridiculous. Guilty as charged, Y - of being Moslems = a follower of Islam.

"The Palestinians are.....", moslems.

With all that that 'possession' implies, as moslems.   post#79



Even the Palestinian 'Christians' have been so subverted by the demands of their moslem overlords, that Palestinian 'Christians' are PUBLICLY anti-Christian and anti-Jewish, and submit themselves to a god called Allah.

Dictionary;
subvert = = undermine the power and authority of (an established system or institution).






Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

They’re guilty too , Y.

We’re better than them. We submit to a god called Gud.

Karnal wrote on Feb 13^th, 2014 at 11:30pm:

They’re guilty too , Y. We’re better than them. We submit to a god called Gud.

Deuteronomy 32:16
They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.
17  They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.
18  Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.
19  And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.
20  And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.


Deuteronomy 5:11
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Deuteronomy's spelt it wrong, Y.

Gud is a jealous god. He doesn't like it when you get His name wrong.

Allow me to summarize what we've all learned.

1. Palestinians should not get their land and houses returned. These were taken after 1967, but the reset button was pressed in WWI.

2. Palestinians are criminals - guilty of intent. This means they should be put in jail - by OUR laws.

3. They're Moslems - okay, many are Christians, but they call Gud Allah, so they're criminals too.

4. Anyone who questions the above is taking the Lord's name in vain.

Please learn the above points, leftards. Y will be asking questions.

;D You certainly have a way of expressing these things K. Keep it up.

Karnal wrote on Feb 14^th, 2014 at 8:52am:

Allow me to summarize what we've all learned. 1. Palestinians should not get their land and houses returned. These were taken after 1967, but the reset button was pressed in WWI. 2. Palestinians are criminals - guilty of intent. This means they should be put in jail - by OUR laws. 3. They're Moslems - okay, many are Christians, but they call Gud Allah, so they're criminals too. 4. Anyone who questions the above is taking the Lord's name in vain. Please learn the above points, leftards. Y will be asking questions.

1. Palestinians should not get their land and houses returned.  - not 'their' land and houses - their land, their ancient homeland, is Jordan.


2. Palestinians are criminals - guilty of intent. This means they should be put in jail - by OUR laws.   - we [who seek God's righteousness] should separate ourselves, from those who clearly have a criminal intent - we should not facilitate moslem immigration [the immigration of wanna-be MURDERERS] into countries like Australia.



IMAGE...
http://images.smh.com.au/2012/09/15/3637564/art-protest3-620x349.jpg
Sydney CBD, 2012, moslem street protests.
Moslems, demanding the right to exercise their 'religious freedom'.
Moslems, demanding the right to 'practise their religion'.
Moslems, proclaiming their 'religious' right to murder persons [who are not moslems, and] who 'offend' moslems, by refusing to believe as they [moslems] believe.

Lets facilitate the immigration of people who hold cultural views like those [image above] ???

Yes, the immigration of people like those, into Australia [image above], is OK, according to 'progressives' like yourself, K.

But i say, moslems should be quarantined to moslem majority lands - and let them [moslems] demonstrate their supposed moslem cultural virtue to us [to persons who are not moslems] from their own lands !



3. They're Moslems - okay, many are Christians, but they call Gud Allah, so they're criminals too.  - moslems deem themselves to be righteous, virtuous people too, even while they [moslems] murder people, because those people do not believe what moslems believe. [e.g. Egypt, Syria, Sudan, Somalia, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc, etc.] - this is because ISLAM [for the moslem], makes lawful, criminal behaviour.

K, if you want moslems [and their 'virtuous' culture] around you, go to, and live in Saudi Arabia.






+++

Psalms 7:9
Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.

Psalms 37:12
The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.

Proverbs 3:33
The curse of the LORD is in the house of the wicked: but he blesseth the habitation of the just.

Proverbs 10:6
Blessings are upon the head of the just: but violence covereth the mouth of the wicked.

Proverbs 10:7
The memory of the just is blessed: but the name of the wicked shall rot.

Proverbs 10:20
The tongue of the just is as choice silver: the heart of the wicked is little worth.

Proverbs 12:13
The wicked is snared by the transgression of his lips: but the just shall come out of trouble.

Proverbs 17:15
He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.

Proverbs 29:27
An unjust man is an abomination to the just: and he that is upright in the way is abomination to the wicked.


Isaiah 5:18
Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope:
19  That say, Let him make speed, and hasten his work, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it!
20  Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21  Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
22  Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
23  Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!

Gandalf wrote:
Quote:

Right - we're finally getting somewhere. The land they own now because of the war(s) is now "lawfully" theirs. What do you think comes with "lawful" ownership moses? Responsibility for its inhabitants perhaps? So we can both agree that Israel now "lawfully" owns the West Bank. There are currently 2.5 million inhabitants who are not Israeli citizens, do not enjoy equal rights under Israeli law, and are routinely subject to punitive actions like forced eviction, restrictions on movement and racial discrimination. So what do you think moses, do you think a power who "lawfully" owns a territory that has a population of native inhabitants has certain duties and obligations to those inhabitants? International law certainly does. Why does Israel subject these people to racial discrimination? Why doesn't Israel grant these people now living in Israel - Israeli citizenship? Serious question. Another thing international law says - specifically - is that an occupying power is strictly forbidden from transferring part of its population to the occupied territory. The settlements blatantly violate this.

You're so concerned about what Israel does with a situation that was forced on them by muslims.

Do you hold the same concern about the treatment non-muslims receive in islamic countries?

muslims have an inextricable hatred of Jews, woven into their religion,politics and family life, Their entire social fabric is founded on hatred of Jews.

I'd say that the way muslims have treated non-muslims in islamic countries is despicable.

Why don't you call for muslims to change, to stop their discrimination and oppression of  non-muslims?

Israel is minority State surrounded by (and containing) a seething mass of hate filled muslims.

They do what they have to do to ensure their survival.

Why don't you call on the overwhelming majority of the Middle East (muslims), who daily live their life discriminating against and oppressing (in the most degenerate manner) non-muslims and muslims they disagree with, to live according to the principles of human rights and decency? (after all their crimes against humanity outweigh the Palestinian problem a thousand time over)

So it's very simple: I don't expect the Jews to let the hate of muslims get the upper hand in any way shape or form.

The real question is: when are muslims going to do the right thing?

moses wrote on Feb 14^th, 2014 at 12:46pm:

You're so concerned about what Israel does with a situation that was forced on them by muslims.

- Did the muslims force Israel to build sprawling jewish settlements that are strategically placed to cut up the Palestinian zones into discontiguous bantustans?
- Did the muslims force Israel to bulldoze centuries old olive farms  to build jew-only roads?
-  Did the muslims force Israel to demolish Palestinian homes for "administrative" purposes?
- Did the muslims force Israel to deprive the Palestinians of their fair share of water on the WB?

I see you have abandoned your point about Israel "legally owning" the WB after it was pointed out to you that with ownership comes responsibility to the inhabitants. Your need to quietly ignore these points and flog that completely irrelevant dead horse about how other unrelated people behave speaks volumes.


moses wrote on Feb 14^th, 2014 at 12:46pm:

Why don't you call on the overwhelming majority of the Middle East (muslims), who daily live their life discriminating against and oppressing (in the most degenerate manner) non-muslims and muslims they disagree with, to live according to the principles of human rights and decency?

Tell you what chump, In a topic about the human rights abuses of middle east muslims, I'll talk about the human rights abuses of middle east muslims. And in a topic about Israeli human rights abuses, I'll talk about Israeli human rights abuses. How does that sound?

... oh look - we seem to be in a thread about Israeli human-rights abuses.

No amount of twisting and turning alters the facts.

The atrocities committed by muslims, because their embedded religious, political and social hatred of Jews in particular, plus hatred of any non-muslim, or muslim they disagree with, establishes muslims as a whole, to be totally in breech of any international law or human rights declaration.

It is self righteous hypocrisy, for muslims to be calling on the Jews to lay them selves open to this muslim hatred, that is an inextricable cornerstone of islamic religion, politics, and society.

I don't expect the Jews to place themselves under an insurmountable handicap, by playing the game scrupulously clean, while muslims continue to commit every degenerate inhumanity imaginable, against who ever they please.

The world would be a better place if you: Tell the muslims, whose human rights abuses outnumber the Jews by thousands to one, to obey international law and human rights declarations.

What right do muslims have to critise the Jews?

It is hypocrisy to the core.

You dissapoint me moses. I was hoping you would at least attempt to address the specifics I mentioned.

Ok then, baby steps, lets just take one:

what are your thoughts on Israel constructing jewish settlements that deprive Palestinians of their livelihood and cut up their land into discontiguous islands? At least explain to me how this activity is the muslims fault.

Y, Palestinian people’s land and homes are still being siezed and occupied today. It has nothing to do with Jordan - the UN and  the White House have declared these settlements illegal. Even Israeli courts have declared the settlements illegal.

I’m expecting a doozy, but here goes: pray tell what the nation of Jordan has to do with anything.

Karnal wrote on Feb 14^th, 2014 at 5:46pm:

Y, Palestinian people’s land and homes are still being siezed and occupied today. It has nothing to do with Jordan - the UN and  the White House have declared these settlements illegal. Even Israeli courts have declared the settlements illegal.

In the past, Israeli courts have declared the settlements have declared some settlements illegal.







Quote:

I’m expecting a doozy, but here goes: pray tell what the nation of Jordan has to do with anything.

posts #57, #76

Yadda wrote on Feb 14^th, 2014 at 6:24pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 14th, 2014 at 5:46pm: Y, Palestinian people’s land and homes are still being siezed and occupied today. It has nothing to do with Jordan - the UN and  the White House have declared these settlements illegal. Even Israeli courts have declared the settlements illegal. In the past, Israeli courts have declared the settlements have declared some settlements illegal. Quote: I’m expecting a doozy, but here goes: pray tell what the nation of Jordan has to do with anything. posts #57, #76

Gee, that was easy. I was expecting something much longer than that.

Posts 57 and 76 are wrong. They have nothing to do with illegal Israeli settlements in Gaza and the West Bank. Everybody knows this - there are UN resolutions in place demanding Israel withdraw.

Do you think Israel should continue to evade international law?

That’s strange. I’m sure your prophet Yeheshua said something about obeying the law.

Do you think Israel is above the laws of men, Y?

Yes, leftards, I do know what I’m in for.

Karnal wrote on Feb 14^th, 2014 at 8:59pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 14th, 2014 at 6:24pm: Karnal wrote on Feb 14th, 2014 at 5:46pm: Y, Palestinian people’s land and homes are still being siezed and occupied today. It has nothing to do with Jordan - the UN and  the White House have declared these settlements illegal. Even Israeli courts have declared the settlements illegal. In the past, Israeli courts have declared the settlements have declared some settlements illegal. Quote: I’m expecting a doozy, but here goes: pray tell what the nation of Jordan has to do with anything. posts #57, #76 Gee, that was easy. I was expecting something much longer than that. Posts 57 and 76 are wrong.

Oh.






Quote:

They have nothing to do with illegal Israeli settlements in Gaza and the West Bank. Everybody knows this - there are UN resolutions in place demanding Israel withdraw.

Everybody knows, is a song by Leonard Cohen






Quote:

Do you think Israel should continue to evade international law?

Have you stopped beating your wife yet ?






Quote:

That’s strange. I’m sure your prophet Yeheshua said something about obeying the law.

Is that right ?






Quote:

Do you think Israel is above the laws of men, Y?

Oh yes.






Quote:

Yes, leftards, I do know what I’m in for.

Sure you do.i+++



bobby,

You'd be proud of me!!!!!

gandalf wrote:
Quote:

You dissapoint me moses. I was hoping you would at least attempt to address the specifics I mentioned. Ok then, baby steps, lets just take one: what are your thoughts on Israel constructing jewish settlements that deprive Palestinians of their livelihood and cut up their land into discontiguous islands? At least explain to me how this activity is the muslims fault.

I wrote a few posts back:
Quote:

Israel is minority State surrounded by (and containing) a seething mass of hate filled muslims. They do what they have to do to ensure their survival.

I also wrote:
Quote:

I don't expect the Jews to place themselves under an insurmountable handicap, by playing the game scrupulously clean, while muslims continue to commit every degenerate inhumanity imaginable, against who ever they please.

I believe the two posts are self explanatory:

The very existence of the Israelites is under threat from muslims surrounding them, they are also under threat from the muslims who are on their lands.

The core of islamic belief is the extermination of Jews.

As I wrote it would be sheer stupidity for the Jews to handicap themselves, against an enemy that lives, eats and breathes their massacre as a sacred tenet.

It's the Jews land, if they want to divide their land up for better settlement of their people, strategic placing of military posts, keep their hate filled enemy at bay etc.

That is a choice that is forced on them by the enemy outside and within, who religiously, politically and socially are absolutely committed to the total extinction of the Jews

Yadda wrote on Feb 14^th, 2014 at 9:42pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 14th, 2014 at 8:59pm: Yadda wrote on Feb 14th, 2014 at 6:24pm: Karnal wrote on Feb 14th, 2014 at 5:46pm: Y, Palestinian people’s land and homes are still being siezed and occupied today. It has nothing to do with Jordan - the UN and  the White House have declared these settlements illegal. Even Israeli courts have declared the settlements illegal. In the past, Israeli courts have declared the settlements have declared some settlements illegal. Quote: I’m expecting a doozy, but here goes: pray tell what the nation of Jordan has to do with anything. posts #57, #76 Gee, that was easy. I was expecting something much longer than that. Posts 57 and 76 are wrong. Oh. [quote]They have nothing to do with illegal Israeli settlements in Gaza and the West Bank. Everybody knows this - there are UN resolutions in place demanding Israel withdraw.

Everybody knows, is a song by Leonard Cohen






Quote:

Do you think Israel should continue to evade international law?

Have you stopped beating your wife yet ?






Quote:

That’s strange. I’m sure your prophet Yeheshua said something about obeying the law.

Is that right ?






Quote:

Do you think Israel is above the laws of men, Y?

Oh yes.






Quote:

Yes, leftards, I do know what I’m in for.

Sure you do.i+++



bobby,

You'd be proud of me!!!!!
[/quote]

Thanks, Y. Second best post you’ve made in 5 years.

The best one is that post you keep quoting about K.

Finally some short punchy answers.  Hooray!

Bobby. wrote on Feb 14^th, 2014 at 11:00pm:

Finally some short punchy answers.  Hooray!

hehe

One liners too !

Yadda wrote on Feb 14^th, 2014 at 9:42pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 14th, 2014 at 8:59pm: [quote]Do you think Israel is above the laws of men, Y? Oh yes.

That’s funny, Y. You said the Palestinian Moslems (and Christians) are guilty of breaking OUR laws. Remember?

Now you’re saying the Israelies are above OUR laws (and their own).

This is all most confusing. Are these your Kharmic Khristian religious beliefs?

I should have paid more attention in Religious Studies - and legal studies.

It’s so hard to keep up.

Karnal wrote on Feb 15^th, 2014 at 12:03pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 14th, 2014 at 9:42pm: Karnal wrote on Feb 14th, 2014 at 8:59pm: Quote: Do you think Israel is above the laws of men, Y? Oh yes. That’s funny, Y. You said the Palestinian Moslems (and Christians) are guilty of breaking OUR laws. Remember? Now you’re saying the Israelies are above OUR laws (and their own). This is all most confusing. Are these your Kharmic Khristian religious beliefs? You claim that they are, K. What do you think, K ? Do i think, that what you think, is correct, K ? It is all getting very confusing isn't it ? Care to make some clarification for us, K,  ....so we will all know and understand, what it is, that i believe ? [quote] I should have paid more attention in Religious Studies - and legal studies. It’s so hard to keep up.

See my comment above.

I’ve quoted you verbatim, Y. That’s exactly what you’ve said. Your posts are sitting there for anyone to read.

You’re not disagreeing with yourself, are you?

It would hardly be a first.

Yes, my name is verbatim.

And you know what i say.

You’re not disagreeing with me, are you K ?

Any other observations, K ?

Karnal wrote on Feb 15^th, 2014 at 12:03pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 14th, 2014 at 9:42pm: Karnal wrote on Feb 14th, 2014 at 8:59pm: Quote: Do you think Israel is above the laws of men, Y? Oh yes. That’s funny, Y. You said the Palestinian Moslems (and Christians) are guilty of breaking OUR laws. Remember? Now you’re saying the Israelies are above OUR laws (and their own). This is all most confusing. Are these your Kharmic Khristian religious beliefs? I should have paid more attention in Religious Studies - and legal studies. It’s so hard to keep up. Ah K, my beliefs, are my beliefs, K. And i remind you of our guiding principle, of 'our' tolerance for the views expressed by all others. And i thank you [in advance] for your agreement with my views. There is no dispersement, we are all one. One big ocean of views. And my views, are your views. http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1379233323/103#103 [quote] Ah, my friends, we must agree with all the peoples - even those who disagree we agree to agree. We need all letters of the alphabet, isn’t it. FD, Y, OB, all. Gud is great, no? We are the letters. Gud is the words. Allah Uakbar.

Yadda wrote on Feb 16^th, 2014 at 3:12am:

Any other observations, K ?

Yes, Y, I have an observation. You’re starting to distract now because you don’t want to address the question of how Jews are above the laws of men, but the Moslems are beneath them.

By stating that your beliefs are your beliefs, you’re inferring that they stand outside reason and logic and they’re not up for question.

Because, as you know, this belief reads to others as hypocrisy and you can’t defend it without reference to the Torah, which is purely a leap of faith. Stating that ANYone is above the laws that others must be mercilessly subjected to is fundamentally outside reason, logic, and any system of justice. It makes your own calls for justice sound empty and shrill, and leaves you no moral ground for your sole purpose: your campaign against Moslems.

There. I’ve expressed myself.

Karnal wrote on Feb 16^th, 2014 at 10:40am:

Yadda wrote on Feb 16th, 2014 at 3:12am: Any other observations, K ? Yes, Y, I have an observation. You’re starting to distract now because you don’t want to address the question of how Jews are above the laws of men, but the Moslems are beneath them. By stating that your beliefs are your beliefs, you’re inferring that they stand outside reason and logic and they’re not up for question. Because, as you know, this belief reads to others as hypocrisy and you can’t defend it without reference to the Torah, which is purely a leap of faith. Stating that ANYone is above the laws that others must be mercilessly subjected to is fundamentally outside reason, logic, and any system of justice. It makes your own calls for justice sound empty and shrill, and leaves you no moral ground for your sole purpose: your campaign against Moslems. There. I’ve expressed myself.

Bravo!

[Yadda faints]

Karnal wrote on Feb 16^th, 2014 at 10:40am:

Yadda wrote on Feb 16th, 2014 at 3:12am: Any other observations, K ? Yes, Y, I have an observation. You’re starting to distract now because you don’t want to address the question of how Jews are above the laws of men, but the Moslems are beneath them. By stating that your beliefs are your beliefs, you’re inferring that they stand outside reason and logic and they’re not up for question.

K,

The Jewish people.

Of course, wherever they live the Jewish people obey local laws. [....n.b. i'm not speaking of the aberrant actions of some LAWLESS individuals - which we can see in any community of men.]

The vast majority of Jewish people obey local laws, because the Jewish people are intelligent people K.

Laws + Truth bring justice and social order.

Social order brings human well-being and prosperity.

LAWLESSNESS brings social strife.

Social strife is a principle cause of human poverty, imo.







Quote:

Because, as you know, this belief reads to others as hypocrisy and you can’t defend it without reference to the Torah, which is purely a leap of faith. Stating that ANYone is above the laws that others must be mercilessly subjected to is fundamentally outside reason, logic, and any system of justice. It makes your own calls for justice sound empty and shrill, and leaves you no moral ground for your sole purpose: your campaign against Moslems. There. I’ve expressed myself.

K,

What you have said, is describing ISLAMIC society, and the common treatment of persons who are not moslems, in a moslem majority jurisdiction.

".....Stating that ANYone is above the laws that others must be mercilessly subjected to...."

Moslems are above property laws, and can take the property of those who are not moslems......





FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)" "
hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196


ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06                  Volume 1, Page 77b: One Who Ignores His Prayers



"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11



THE PROPERTY OF INFIDELS, BELONGS TO MOSLEMS.....

"Or have they gods that can guard them from Us? They have no power to aid themselves, nor can they be defended from Us.
...See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"
Koran 21:43-44

"And He made you [moslems] heirs to their [non-moslem] land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things."
Koran 33:27

The irony of your stance is not lost on me, Y.

Alas, I don’t see any Moslems here claiming some form of divine right in international law.

Karnal wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 8:43am:

The irony of your stance is not lost on me, Y. Alas, I don’t see any Moslems here claiming some form of divine right in international law.

K,

The Jewish people [Israelis] have rights under plain, simple, international law, relating to the territory held by the Israelis.....


islam and jews
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1299665041/39#39

Quote:

......international law allows nations who are attacked [e.g. the state of Israel, 1948, 1967, 1973], to occupy and annex land that was previously recognised as being a part of another state [e.g. Arab states, 1948] because of aggression and attacks, upon a neighbouring state [Israel, 1948]. And international laws does not prohibit a state which was attacked [e.g. the state of Israel, 1948], from occupying and annexing the lands of an aggressor, so as to prevent further attacks. ......"ISRAEL AND INTERNATIONAL LAW....Israel’s presence in all these areas pending negotiation of new borders is entirely lawful, since Israel entered them lawfully in self-defence. International law forbids acquisition by unlawful force, but not where, as in the case of Israel’s self-defence in 1967, the entry on the territory was lawful. It does not so forbid it, ....for the effect of such prohibition would be to guarantee to all potential aggressors that, even if their aggression failed, all territory lost in the attempt would be automatically returned to them. Such a rule would be absurd to the point of lunacy. There is no such rule..." http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/?p=1528

K,

ALSO;
You may learn something about the intractable Arab/Israeli conflict, viewed from a different perspective, if you listen to this;

Part 146C - Two States - Israel and Palestine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sYmb6Qml2Y

Yadda wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 8:54am:

Karnal wrote on Feb 18th, 2014 at 8:43am: The irony of your stance is not lost on me, Y. Alas, I don’t see any Moslems here claiming some form of divine right in international law. K, The Jewish people [Israelis] have rights under plain, simple, international law, relating to the territory held by the Israelis.....

These rights are not in question, Y. It's the rights of Palestinians we're discussing here, who have equal rights under sovereign law.

The UN does not have a chosen people - apart from the US, of course.

Karnal wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 9:35am:

Yadda wrote on Feb 18th, 2014 at 8:54am: Karnal wrote on Feb 18th, 2014 at 8:43am: The irony of your stance is not lost on me, Y. Alas, I don’t see any Moslems here claiming some form of divine right in international law. K, The Jewish people [Israelis] have rights under plain, simple, international law, relating to the territory held by the Israelis..... These rights are not in question, Y. It's the rights of Palestinians we're discussing here, who have equal rights under sovereign law. The UN does not have a chosen people - apart from the US, of course.

K,

It can be argued that the 'Palestinians' are interlopers in the areas of Judea and Samaria [and even Gaza], as Israel has effectively annexed those areas - since the moslem instigated conflict of 1967, which did not go their [the moslems] way.

Those 'Palestinians' in Judea and Samaria, have a homeland to retreat to, it is called Jordan.

And if the Israelis are dealing harshly with those 'Palestinian' interlopers in Judea and Samaria, it is because those 'Palestinian' interlopers in Judea and Samaria are behaving in a LAWLESS and hostile manner towards the Israelis.



K,

Will you concede, that the 'Palestinian' interlopers in Judea and Samaria - do have their own homeland - a homeland which is outside of Israel proper [i.e. Israel proper, which includes historic Judea and Samaria] ???

Or is that a silly question K, to put to someone such as yourself ?



IMAGE.....
http://www.protestwarrior.com/nimages/signs/large/pw_sign_22.gif
"Abdullah my brother, the Jews have take our land, and we are a homeless people.
WAIL! WAIL! WAIL!
Those dastardly Zionists!!
We want our land back."
/sarc off

Yadda wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 10:12am:

K, It can be argued that the 'Palestinians' are interlopers in the areas of Judea and Samaria [and even Gaza], as Israel has effectively annexed those areas - since the moslem instigated conflict of 1967, which did not go their [the moslems] way.

No, it can't. Not since the Oslo Accords of 1993, when Israel AGREED to hand back these areas.

How can Palestinian home owners be held responsible for the actions of foreign armies in the 67 war?


Yadda wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 10:12am:

K, Will you concede, that the 'Palestinian' interlopers in Judea and Samaria - do have their own homeland - a homeland which is outside of Israel proper [i.e. Israel proper, which includes historic Judea and Samaria] ??? Or is that a silly question K, to put to someone such as yourself ?

It's a silly question to put to anyone who recognises land title, Y. Your homeland is where you own your home.

Yadda wrote on Feb 17^th, 2014 at 10:56pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 16th, 2014 at 10:40am: Yadda wrote on Feb 16th, 2014 at 3:12am: Any other observations, K ? Yes, Y, I have an observation. You’re starting to distract now because you don’t want to address the question of how Jews are above the laws of men, but the Moslems are beneath them. By stating that your beliefs are your beliefs, you’re inferring that they stand outside reason and logic and they’re not up for question. K, The Jewish people. Of course, wherever they live the Jewish people obey local laws. [....n.b. i'm not speaking of the aberrant actions of some LAWLESS individuals - which we can see in any community of men.] The vast majority of Jewish people obey local laws, because the Jewish people are intelligent people K. Laws + Truth bring justice and social order. Social order brings human well-being and prosperity. LAWLESSNESS brings social strife. Social strife is a principle cause of human poverty, imo. Quote: Because, as you know, this belief reads to others as hypocrisy and you can’t defend it without reference to the Torah, which is purely a leap of faith. Stating that ANYone is above the laws that others must be mercilessly subjected to is fundamentally outside reason, logic, and any system of justice. It makes your own calls for justice sound empty and shrill, and leaves you no moral ground for your sole purpose: your campaign against Moslems. There. I’ve expressed myself. K, What you have said, is describing ISLAMIC society, and the common treatment of persons who are not moslems, in a moslem majority jurisdiction. ".....Stating that ANYone is above the laws that others must be mercilessly subjected to...." Moslems are above property laws, and can take the property of those who are not moslems...... FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED "Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)" " hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196 ISLAMIC LAW.... "Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) " fiqhussunnah/fus1_06                  Volume 1, Page 77b: One Who Ignores His Prayers "....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith." Koran 2.98 "....those who reject Allah have no protector." Koran 47.008 v. 8-11 THE PROPERTY OF INFIDELS, BELONGS TO MOSLEMS..... "Or have they gods that can guard them from Us? They have no power to aid themselves, nor can they be defended from Us. ...See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?" Koran 21:43-44 "And He made you [moslems] heirs to their [non-moslem] land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things." Koran 33:27

Prophet Mohamed also said this,

Hadrat Sa‘id bin Zayd (may Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah’s Messenger (may Allah’s blessings and peace be upon him) as saying, “If anyone takes a span of land unjustly, its extent taken from seven earths will be tied round his neck on the Day of Resurrection." (Bukhari and Muslim)

So if a muslim lives next to a non muslim, the muslim has no right to take his house, land or wealth, cause that's not his right to do that.

The opposite is with jews.They think they own the whole land from the Euphrates rives to the river nile.

Thus that's why the daily destroy daily Palestinian homes to build there illegal jewish terrorist state.

wally1 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 2:16pm:

Prophet Mohamed also said this, Hadrat Sa‘id bin Zayd (may Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah’s Messenger (may Allah’s blessings and peace be upon him) as saying, “If anyone takes a span of land unjustly, its extent taken from seven earths will be tied round his neck on the Day of Resurrection." (Bukhari and Muslim) So if a muslim lives next to a non muslim, the muslim has no right to take his house, land or wealth, cause that's not his right to do that. The opposite is with jews.They think they own the whole land from the Euphrates rives to the river nile. Thus that's why the daily destroy daily Palestinian homes to build there illegal jewish terrorist state.

"......if a muslim lives next to a non muslim, the muslim has no right to take his house, land or wealth, cause that's not his right to do that."


wally1,

Oh really ?

What you stated [above] is not true [.....and it actually contradicts Allah's command to the moslem].

How can you explain this ?




wally1,

Allah commands the moslem, that if a moslem lives near to a non-moslem, and, if the moslem can [if he has the power to do so], that he [the moslem] should kill the non-moslem, or, enslave him - SIMPLY BECAUSE HE IS A NOT A MOSLEM.



wally1,

How can you reconcile what you have stated [above], with what Allah and Mohammed have commanded [see below] ?





FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)" "
hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196


ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06                  Volume 1, Page 77b: One Who Ignores His Prayers



"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11


Verses from the moslem 'holy' book, the Koran;

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123


"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111


"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

Then why didn't the muslim guests who invite you to dinner kill you?

Where are the muslims lining up to kill you?

Your so ungrateful that people invite you to dinner.

Your heart is corrupted.

wally1 wrote on Feb 19^th, 2014 at 10:55am:

Then why didn't the muslim guests who invite you to dinner kill you? Where are the muslims lining up to kill you? Your so ungrateful that people invite you to dinner. Your heart is corrupted.

Y's a Karmic Khristian and devout Googler. He's also become a bit of an amateur historian of late.

Google: Palestine = the Kingdom of Jordan.

wally1 wrote on Feb 19^th, 2014 at 10:55am:

Then why didn't the muslim guests who invite you to dinner kill you?

Perhaps it wasn't the opportune moment ?


Quote:

July 28, 2006 Islamic Dictionary for Infidels ...Robert Spencer, ..."Religious deception of unbelievers is indeed taught by the Qur'an itself: "Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them" (Qur'an 3:28). In other words, don't make friends with unbelievers except to "guard yourselves from them": pretend to be their friends so that you can strengthen yourself against them. The distinguished Qur'anic commentator Ibn Kathir explains that this verse teaches that if "believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers," they may "show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/012406.php





Quote:

Where are the muslims lining up to kill you?

IMAGE...
http://images.smh.com.au/2012/09/15/3637564/art-protest3-620x349.jpg
Sydney CBD, 2012, moslem street protests.
Moslems, demanding the right to exercise their 'religious freedom'.
Moslems, demanding the right to 'practise their religion'.
Moslems, proclaiming their 'religious' right to murder persons [who are not moslems, and] who 'offend' moslems, by refusing to believe as they [moslems] believe.

wally1,

Looking at the message that is conveyed by those placards [image above], it seems to me, that there are a few moslems living in Australia who would like to slit my throat ?

wally1,

Do you believe that there are any moslems here in Australia, who would perceive that i am insulting Mohammed/ISLAM ?

wally1,

Would a moslem [living in Australia] be justified [in/by ISLAM], for slitting my throat ?








Quote:

Your so ungrateful that people invite you to dinner. Your heart is corrupted.

Psalms 11:4
The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.


wally1,

Where is the temple of my God ?

Karnal wrote on Feb 19^th, 2014 at 12:59pm:

wally1 wrote on Feb 19th, 2014 at 10:55am: Then why didn't the muslim guests who invite you to dinner kill you? Where are the muslims lining up to kill you? Your so ungrateful that people invite you to dinner. Your heart is corrupted. Y's a Karmic Khristian and devout Googler. He's also become a bit of an amateur historian of late. Google: Palestine = the Kingdom of Jordan.

Karnal wrote on Jan 29^th, 2014 at 3:08pm:

Behead all those who insult the Prophet. I'm hardly an atheist, Y. I believe in Gud.

(peace be upon him)

Gud = = Mohammed

Moslem = = Mohammedan




IMAGE...
http://images.smh.com.au/2012/09/15/3637564/art-protest3-620x349.jpg
Mohammedan's, defending the honour of their deity.

Gone off the Kingdom of Jordan, eh Y?

Back to K.

What about how K never expresses his true views on this site, thus deep down being a Muslim spy?

Post that, Y. 

Karnal wrote on Feb 19^th, 2014 at 7:17pm:

Gone off the Kingdom of Jordan, eh Y? Back to K. What about how K never expresses his true views on this site, thus deep down being a Muslim spy? Post that, Y.

"(peace be upon him)", eh ?

But of course!

All should have peace. Salaam aleikum, my brother, Y.

Gud is great.

Karnal wrote on Feb 19^th, 2014 at 7:36pm:

But of course! All should have peace. Salaam aleikum, my brother, Y. Gud is great.

K, your insincerity is showing.....


CAUSE?;

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260



EFFECT?;


Quote:

February 5, 2008 70-year-old woman, convert from Islam to Christianity, burned to death in Bangladesh ....DHAKA, BANGLADESH (BosNewsLife)-- Christian villagers in a Muslim-majority area of Bangladesh on Tuesday, February 5, mourned the death of a 70-year-old woman who died from burns she suffered when a mob reportedly set her home ablaze as a punishment for converting from Islam to Christianity.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/019813.php





Karnal wrote on Jan 29^th, 2014 at 3:08pm:

Behead all those who insult the Prophet. I'm hardly an atheist, Y. I believe in Gud.

It means "peace be with you," Y.

That’s all.

Karnal wrote on Feb 19^th, 2014 at 8:28pm:

It means "peace be with you," Y. That’s all.

I thought that it meant, "ISLAM be with you."

Moslems use the word, 'ISLAM', and teh word 'peace', interchangeably.





Quote:

K, In the moslem lexicon, the word, 'ISLAM', and the word, 'peace', are interchangeable, especially for whenever moslems are communicating with useful idiots [those non-moslems who advocate for ISLAMIC, ISLAMIC causes, for peaceful ISLAMIC causes]. So you see K, it is much more concealing and politically productive for a moslem slogan to declare; "There is no way to peace, peace is the way"... than for a moslem slogan to openly declare; "There is no way to peace, ISLAM is the way"...

Poster reads: "There is no way to peace, peace is the way"...

how do these terrorists get away with such blatant incitement to violence!!??
http://cache.newzulu.com.au/en/photos/local/2014-01-25/4925/sydney-s-egyptian-community-stages/all_fullscreen/45078-img_3290.jpg
Children in Sydney, advocating for the Muslim Brotherhood political group of Egypt;

She is holding a sign wit a website on it Yadda.

I suggest you check it out and what it really stands for (here's a hint, it isn't Morsi)

Stratos wrote on Feb 19^th, 2014 at 8:58pm:

She is holding a sign wit a website on it Yadda.

Stratos,

Yep, i noticed that.

The four-finger salute is predominant on that website.






Quote:

I suggest you check it out and what it really stands for (here's a hint, it isn't Morsi)

Stratos,

Do you know, that the four-finger salute [in Egypt] indicates solidarity with Muslim Brotherhood & Morsi ?

And do you know that Morsi wants/wanted to establish a Sharia compliant [oppressive ISLAMIST] state ?




IMAGE....
http://cache.newzulu.com.au/en/photos/local/2014-01-25/4925/sydney-s-egyptian-community-stages/all_fullscreen/45087-img_3351.jpg



IMAGE....
http://cache.newzulu.com.au/en/photos/local/2014-01-25/4925/sydney-s-egyptian-community-stages/all_fullscreen/45091-img_3364.jpg

Yadda wrote on Feb 20^th, 2014 at 12:20am:

indicates solidarity with Muslim Brotherhood & Morsi ?

Solidarity for his supporters who were msassacred.  Surely even you have no qualms about people supporting people who were callously murdered. 

Wait, you probably do, being ok with genocide and baby killing as long as YOUR religion does it.

Stratos wrote on Feb 19^th, 2014 at 8:58pm:

She is holding a sign wit a website on it Yadda. I suggest you check it out and what it really stands for (here's a hint, it isn't Morsi)

Stratos,

You statement above is completely untrue.

The r4bia.com.au site is completely about support for Morsi and for the Muslim Brotherhood.

The four-finger salute [indicating solidarity with Muslim Brotherhood & Morsi] is predominant on that website.



Any response ???

Stratos wrote on Feb 20^th, 2014 at 1:55am:

Yadda wrote on Feb 20th, 2014 at 12:20am: indicates solidarity with Muslim Brotherhood & Morsi ? Solidarity for his supporters who were msassacred. Surely even you have no qualms about people supporting people who were callously murdered.

Stratos,

At political rallies in Egypt, Morsi & the Muslim Brotherhood had urged their moslem supporters to sacrifice themselves in violent confrontations with other Egyptians, and to achieve what ???
IT WAS SO THAT Morsi & the Muslim Brotherhood COULD SEIZE POLITICAL AUTHORITY AND VIOLENTLY IMPOSE AN ISLAMIST TYRANNY UPON ALL OF THE EGYPTIAN PEOPLE.





Quote:

Mild mannered - "We will govern for all Egyptians" - Mohammed Morsi - Ex-President of Egypt "The Koran is our constitution" "The Prophet Muhammad is our leader" "Jihad is our path" "AND DEATH FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH IS OUR MOST LOFTY ASPIRATION!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8NtiUMOFFg

+++

Another ISLAMIST rallying cry, from another era in Egypt.....

"....the death of those who are killed for the cause of God gives more impetus to the cause, which continues to thrive on their blood."
Egyptian ISLAMIC scholar, Sayyid Qutb.

Stratos wrote on Feb 20^th, 2014 at 1:55am:

Yadda wrote on Feb 20th, 2014 at 12:20am: indicates solidarity with Muslim Brotherhood & Morsi ? Solidarity for his supporters who were msassacred. Surely even you have no qualms about people supporting people who were callously murdered.

Yadda paraphrases Stratos;

"Surely even you have no qualms about people supporting people who were callously murdered who are ISLAMIST wanna-be murderers and ISLAMIST wanna-be tyrants and oppressors of other Egyptians?"






Quote:

Mild mannered - "We will govern for all Egyptians" - Mohammed Morsi - Ex-President of Egypt "The Koran is our constitution" "The Prophet Muhammad is our leader" "Jihad is our path" "AND DEATH FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH IS OUR MOST LOFTY ASPIRATION!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8NtiUMOFFg

But Stratos would never support or defend extremists         :P
......people like Morsi & the Muslim Brotherhood, and their supporters,
......PEOPLE WHO WERE CALLING FOR THE DEATH OF PEOPLE, FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH AND HIS CAUSE - TO ISLAM-ISE EGYPT.





Stratos wrote on Dec 4^th, 2013 at 2:45pm:

Yadda, find me one quote of mine, just one, where I condone Muslim extremist behavior.

Stratos wrote on Feb 7^th, 2014 at 7:30am:

Find me defending extremism Soren.  Just one post will do.

Stratos wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2014 at 1:02pm:

Find me one example where I have defended extremism.  Just one.  I dare you.

Stratos wrote on Feb 6^th, 2014 at 3:50pm:

moses wrote on Feb 6th, 2014 at 3:41pm: You are the one who keeps bringing up the Old Testament as your exonerations for the barbarity of modern day islam  Actually, I have never made excuses for extremism.