"....why do Muslims today have to be accountable for this action?"






Clyne wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:23pm:

Quote: Muhammed once executed 800 Jewish POWs in one day. Gandalf likes to explain that this is OK because they were a monolithic entity who were all responsible for the crimes of a few. Calling bullshit is not silencing someone. Chopping their head off is. What you criticise us for is actually at the core of Islam. I believe my point stands - why do Muslims today have to be accountable for this action?

WHY ?

Because moslems today align themselves with the values which are intrinsic to being 'ISLAMIC'.

Because moslems today align themselves with the values which are intrinsic to a person demonstrating that he is, a moslem.


e.g.

WHO IS A 'GOOD' MOSLEM ?

AND HOW DO ISLAMIC FOUNDATION TEXTS 'DESCRIBE' THE MOTIVATION OF A 'GOOD' MOSLEM ?



Quote:

FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED - THE HADITH.... "Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)" " hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196 "A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause." " hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.065 hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.080i n.b. ......"He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause." "Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." " hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #001.002.026

Clyne,

QUESTION;
IF MOSLEMS [in truth] DO NOT ALIGN THEMSELVES WITH THESE 'AMBITIONS', then in what sense is a moslem entitled to make the claim, to associate himself with ISLAM ?

And in what way [or 'sense'] does a 'moderate' moslem, have the right to refer to himself as, a 'moslem' ?

n.b.
ISLAM itself would reject such a publicly claimed stance, from an individual claiming to be a 'moslem'.






What is ISLAM ???

And what violence against 'disbelievers' does ISLAM sanction require, form the part of a true moslem ?

ISLAMIC law....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."





FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260iOnce more, with feeling!.....



Quote:

.....who, is a moslem ? A moslem, is a moslem. Dictionary; Muslim = = a follower of Islam. And what is ISLAM ??? And what does ISLAM sanction ? Does ISLAM sanction violence against 'disbelievers', BECAUSE THEY ARE 'DISBELIEVERS' ? And if  ISLAM did sanction violence against 'disbelievers', BECAUSE THEY ARE 'DISBELIEVERS', wouldn't that violence against 'disbelievers' be counted as an expression of 'extremism' ? "And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..." Koran 2.193 "....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith." Koran 2.98 "....those who reject Allah have no protector." Koran 47.008 v. 8-11 "Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Koran 2.216 "O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)." Koran 9.123 "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...." Koran 9.111 "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. " Koran 9.29

Clyne wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:23pm:

Quote: Muhammed once executed 800 Jewish POWs in one day. Gandalf likes to explain that this is OK because they were a monolithic entity who were all responsible for the crimes of a few. Calling bullshit is not silencing someone. Chopping their head off is. What you criticise us for is actually at the core of Islam. I believe my point stands - why do Muslims today have to be accountable for this action?

Clyne,

With all of the apparent ISLAMIC violence in the world today, isn't there an obligation upon moslems [themselves] to outline to us, how real ISLAMIC doctrines, are inherently benign and peaceful, as they are claiming ???




Quote:

Why 'Moderate Islam' is an Oxymoron March 24, 2014 At a time when terrorism committed in the name of Islam is rampant, we are continuously being assured—especially by three major institutions that play a dominant role in forming the Western mindset, namely, mainstream media, academia, and government—that the sort of Islam embraced by "radicals," "jihadis," and so forth, has nothing to do with "real" Islam. "True" Islam, so the narrative goes, is intrinsically free of anything "bad." It's the nut-jobs who hijack it for their own agenda that are to blame.

http://www.meforum.org/3802/moderate-islam



ISLAM is a deceptive and extremist philosophy.

And ISLAM, is demonstrated to be a viciously violent philosophy towards its critics [and towards non-moslems] - wherever such violence cannot be constrained [by those who are not moslems].

It is absolutely, imo, not credible for any one who joins himself to ISLAM to claim, that ISLAM is intrinsically 'moderate' or begin, or that moslems themselves are benign, in their true intentions, towards persons who are outside of his [the moslem] 'camp'.

If any person makes such a claim, such a person is simply engaging in ISLAMIC lying and ISLAMIC deceit - so as to protect and to shield their real intentions from open scrutiny and censure, imo.i
Quote:

WHY, DO MOSLEMS LIE TO US ??? Taqiyya “Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible..., and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. ...One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…” google Google; taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit How Taqiyya Alters Islams Rules of War http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1366856138/763#763





Taqiyya
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/011-taqiyya.htm

Yadda wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 1:46pm:

Clyne, With all of the apparent ISLAMIC violence in the world today, isn't there an obligation upon moslems [themselves] to outline to us, how real ISLAMIC doctrines, are inherently benign and peaceful, as they are claiming ??? ISLAM is a deceptive and extremist philosophy. And ISLAM, is demonstrated to be a viciously violent philosophy towards its critics [and towards non-moslems] - wherever such violence cannot be constrained [by those who are not moslems]. It is absolutely, imo, not credible for any one who joins himself to ISLAM to claim, that ISLAM is intrinsically 'moderate' or begin, or that moslems themselves are benign, in their true intentions, towards persons who are outside of his [the moslem] 'camp'. If any person makes such a claim, such a person is simply engaging in ISLAMIC lying and ISLAMIC deceit - so as to protect and to shield their real intentions from open scrutiny and censure, imo.

CNN: "Study: Threat of Muslim-American terrorism in U.S. exaggerated" 06.01.2010

I'd post a link but I'm not up to 100 posts yet so I will put in some quotes from the article:


Quote:

The terrorist threat posed by radicalized Muslim- Americans has been exaggerated, according to a study released Wednesday by researchers at Duke University and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. A small number of Muslim-Americans have undergone radicalization since the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, the study found. It compiled a list of 139 individuals it categorized as "Muslim-American terrorism offenders" who had become radicalized in the U.S. in that time -- a rate of 17 per year. That level is "small compared to other violent crime in America, but not insignificant," according to the study, titled "Anti-Terror Lessons of Muslim-Americans."

Quote:

"Muslim-American organizations and the vast majority of individuals that we interviewed firmly reject the radical extremist ideology that justifies the use of violence to achieve political ends," David Schanzer, an associate professor in Duke's Sanford School of Public Policy and director of the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security, said in the statement.

Quote:

"Muslim-American communities have been active in preventing radicalization," said Charles Kurzman, professor of sociology at UNC, in the statement. "This is one reason that Muslim-American terrorism has resulted in fewer than three dozen of the 136,000 murders committed in the United States since 9/11."

Clyne wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 5:54pm:

A small number of Muslim-Americans have undergone radicalization since the September 11, 2001

See that leftards? small number of muslims being radicalised obviously because most of them were already radicalised.

Actually, come to think of it, the article must be lying - there couldn't have been any radicalisation going on - muslims are *ALREADY* radicalised - every one of them. Never ever on stilts

SHAME LEFTARDS SHAME

Gallup Poll: Jews and Christians Way More Likely than Muslims to Justify Killing Civilians

http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/08/gallup-poll-jews-and-christians-way-more-likely-than-muslims-to-justify-killing-civilians/

Percentage of terror attacks in America.


http://i.imgur.com/nnBhZjQ.jpg

Thanks Wally. Is that the one that counts graffiti attacks as terrorism?

Islam compels Muslims to make up excuses for everything Muhammed did. You just have to ask the question.

freediver wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 9:02pm:

Thanks Wally. Is that the one that counts graffiti attacks as terrorism? Islam compels Muslims to make up excuses for everything Muhammed did. You just have to ask the question.

Your posts are terror.

Better do up a pie chart.

Clyne wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 5:54pm:

CNN: "Study: Threat of Muslim-American terrorism in U.S. exaggerated" 06.01.2010 Quote: "Muslim-American organizations and the vast majority of individuals that we interviewed firmly reject the radical extremist ideology that justifies the use of violence to achieve political ends," David Schanzer, an associate professor in Duke's Sanford School of Public Policy and director of the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security, said in the statement. [quote]"Muslim-American communities have been active in preventing radicalization," said Charles Kurzman, professor of sociology at UNC, in the statement. "This is one reason that Muslim-American terrorism has resulted in fewer than three dozen of the 136,000 murders committed in the United States since 9/11."

[/quote]

Clyne,

The argument that you are promoting is, effectively, that a moslem, is not really a moslem.

Your argument is just more moslem obfuscation.    [i.e. promote confusion, so as to deny clarity of thought to the enemy of the moslems]



Clyne,

The contents of the Koran, and the example of Mohammed [in the Hadith], both fervently urge the 'radicalization' of moslems!

So your quotes of moslems in America publicly claiming that moslems in America are seeking to prevent the radicalization of moslems is a bare faced lie, a deception - a 'don't scare the horses' public facade.





"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51


IMAGE....
http://a4.img.talkingpointsmemo.com/image/upload/c_fill,fl_keep_iptc,g_faces,h_365,w_652/uydph5icypxyxubsx7wk.jpg

"CAIR Says Poster Warning Against Helping FBI is Misinterpreted"



CAIR = = Council on American-Islamic Relations, and CAIR is probably the most prominent mouthpiece for the moslem community in America.





Google;
"Build a Wall of Resistance"






Clyne,

Do you want us to believe that moslems, and the moslem community, in America, and their spokesmen,...... have all chosen to embrace 'the American dream' and their new opportunities in America ?

And anyone who would suggest that ISLAMIC culture and that ISLAMIC religious doctrine, teaches enmity towards America, and the American people, is wrong, and is being 'mischievous' ?




Clyne,

In what sense, has the contents of the Koran, and the urging of Mohammed [in the Hadith], to use violence and terror and DECEIT, to subjugate non-moslems for the cause of Allah [to subject non-moslems to the political authority of moslems], not have anything to do, with the state of being a 'moslem' ?

And if the contents of the Koran, and the urging of Mohammed, have nothing to do, with the state of being a 'moslem', then from what source, do moslems draw their peaceful religious doctrines ?



Clyne,

Who, is a moslem ?

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.








FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED - ISLAM'S PROPHET AND ARGUABLY, THE AUTHOR OF ALL OF ISLAM'S THEOLOGY

Allah's Apostle said,
"I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy)...."
hadith/bukhari #004.052.220

".....I have been given superiority......; I have been helped by terror (in the hearts of enemies):....."
hadithsunnah/muslim/ #004.1062




"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."
Koran 3.85


"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..."
Koran 2.193






FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED - ISLAM'S PROPHET AND ARGUABLY, THE AUTHOR OF ALL OF ISLAM'S THEOLOGY


Quote:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:     Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform all that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

hadith/bukhari/001.002.025

We could have warned you, Clyne, but you needed to find out for yourself.

http://i.imgur.com/nnBhZjQ.jpg


wally1 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 8:43pm:

Percentage of terror attacks in America. http://i.imgur.com/nnBhZjQ.jpg

wally1,

What does that pie chart mean ?

Does it mean that ISLAMIC terrorism in the USA is negligible ?



Dictionary;
negligible = = so small or unimportant as to be not worth considering; insignificant.





IMAGE.....
http://oedipuslex.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/wtc-9-11.jpg
wtc-9-11.jpg
An example of the consequences 'negligible' ISLAMIC terrorism in the USA

....have you every had to go through a tedious security check, before boarding an aircraft ???

All courtesy of the consequences 'negligible' ISLAMIC terrorism around the world.


THE RELIGION OF PEACE
http://thereligionofpeace.com/






"...typically, an unrestrained INSANE person will act in ways which are harmful and destructive to himself and, or, others around him."


The influence of ISLAM, on the streets of our cities;

IMAGE...
http://images.smh.com.au/2012/09/15/3637564/art-protest3-620x349.jpg
Sydney, 2012, moslem street protests.
Moslems, religious bigots, 'demonstrating', just how 'peaceful' ISLAM and moslems really are.
Moslems demanding their right to exercise their 'freedom of religion',
.....to kill people who do not believe as they [moslems] believe.

Karnal wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 11:52pm:

We could have warned you, Clyne, but you needed to find out for yourself.

Karnal = = obfuscation.

Spreading intellectual confusion, disguised as 'a laugh'.



If Karnal could engage me in debate, in logical argument, and demolish my arguments [critical of ISLAM and moslems] he would.

Karnal is unable to engage me in debate, in logical argument, in this forum.

An honest person would concede, that ISLAM is a deceitful and violent political philosophy, hiding behind a false facade and a false claim, of ISLAM being a virtuous religion.

But everyone knows that in debate, when you hold an indefensible position/argument [if you are not prepared to concede], your only option is to dishonestly denigrate and castigate and ridicule, the other.



Karnal is unable to demolish my arguments [which expose the true nature of ISLAM, arguments which are based upon ISLAMIC sources].

So [unwilling to concede], he resorts to denigration.






ISLAMIC law....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."





FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260




"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

Hi Clyne, welcome to the board.  not sure if you have met Yadda properly.  He is a Christian who is very passionately against Islam and Muslims, and is often willing to lie and deceive in order to try and make Islam look bad.

To save you some time, here is a quick run down of some of the things he regularly says and why they are incorrect:

Taqqiya: he will often say this means Muslims can lie to non Muslims about anything, when in fact the only premise for this based on the koran is that you can only lie in order to protect yourself from danger.  He has been shown this repeatedly, but prefers to spread lies instead ironically ::)

His regularly trots out a description of "terrorism" that is so broad it actually includes his own lord and saviors actions.

That behead the prophet poster from the Sydney event?  A small minority, and was condemned by a LOT of Australian Muslim leaders.  he knows this too, but would like you to think that all Muslims act like they do.

Oh, and he is in the weird club that thinks both genocide and the murder of babies are acceptable as long as they were done by Christians.

Welcome, and hope this post was helpful to you.

If you don't know how to read pie charts Yadda then go back to kindergarten.

freediver wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 9:02pm:

Thanks Wally. Is that the one that counts graffiti attacks as terrorism? Islam compels Muslims to make up excuses for everything Muhammed did. You just have to ask the question.

I continually find muslims justify everything moh did.

Stratos wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 7:06am:

Hi Clyne, welcome to the board.  not sure if you have met Yadda properly.  He is a Christian who is very passionately against Islam and Muslims, and is often willing to lie and deceive in order to try and make Islam look bad. To save you some time, here is a quick run down of some of the things he regularly says and why they are incorrect: Taqqiya: he will often say this means Muslims can lie to non Muslims about anything, when in fact the only premise for this based on the koran is that you can only lie in order to protect yourself from danger.....

Not true, Stratos.




Stratos,

Taqqiya - lying and deception - is used by moslems, more generally - so as to avoid accountability for their nefarious actions and choices.

But mostly, Taqqiya - lying and deception - is used by moslems to misrepresent the nature of ISLAM, to many who are unfamiliar with ISLAM, and who therefore know almost nothing about ISLAM's true nature.


e.g.
Here is an example of Taqqiya being used by....


Quote:

A body representing British 'mainstream' moslems, The Muslim Council of Britain, declares on its website, that ISLAM is a philosophy which condemns extremism and violence.... [quote] Rejecting Terror Thursday, 11 April 2013 Muslims everywhere consider all acts of terrorism that aims to murder and maim innocent human beings utterly reprehensible and abhorrent. There is no theological basis whatsoever for such acts in our faith. The very meaning of the word 'Islam' is peace. It rejects terror and promotes peace and harmony.

http://www.mcb.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2307:mcbnewstemplate&catid=82:mcb-news
http://www.mcb.org.uk/article_detail.php?article=announcement-656

[/quote]





ISLAMIC law....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."





FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260




"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29




+++


n.b., Stratos.

ALL ABOUT THE MOSLEM DOCTRINE OF LYING, TO FURTHER THEIR POLITICAL AIMS....


Quote:

Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'"  The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage (see Additional Notes below). ....Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permissible in order to deceive an "enemy."

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/011-taqiyya.htm






And moslems use lying and deception, so as to sow confusion with the 'camp' of the enemy - so as to generally strengthen moslems, and to generally weaken the resolve of their enemy.



Quote:

July 28, 2006 Islamic Dictionary for Infidels ...Robert Spencer, ..."Religious deception of unbelievers is indeed taught by the Qur'an itself: "Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them" (Qur'an 3:28). In other words, don't make friends with unbelievers except to "guard yourselves from them": pretend to be their friends so that you can strengthen yourself against them. The distinguished Qur'anic commentator Ibn Kathir explains that this verse teaches that if "believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers," they may "show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/012406.php

yadda.

stratos definition of taqiyya is right, yours is wrong.

Have a good day

wally1 wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 9:03am:

yadda. stratos definition of taqiyya is right, yours is wrong. Have a good day

wally1,

And the moon is made of green cheese.

Honest!!!         :PiALL ABOUT THE MOSLEM DOCTRINE OF LYING, TO FURTHER THEIR POLITICAL AIMS....


Quote:

....Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permissible in order to deceive an "enemy."

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/011-taqiyya.htm

Yadda wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 12:41am:

Karnal wrote on Mar 27th, 2014 at 11:52pm: We could have warned you, Clyne, but you needed to find out for yourself. Karnal = = obfuscation. Spreading intellectual confusion, disguised as 'a laugh'. If Karnal could engage me in debate, in logical argument, and demolish my arguments [critical of ISLAM and moslems] he would. Karnal is unable to engage me in debate, in logical argument, in this forum. An honest person would concede, that ISLAM is a deceitful and violent political philosophy, hiding behind a false facade and a false claim, of ISLAM being a virtuous religion. But everyone knows that in debate, when you hold an indefensible position/argument [if you are not prepared to concede], your only option is to dishonestly denigrate and castigate and ridicule, the other. Karnal is unable to demolish my arguments [which expose the true nature of ISLAM, arguments which are based upon ISLAMIC sources]. So [unwilling to concede], he resorts to denigration. ISLAMIC law.... "Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...." fiqhussunnah/#3.110 n.b. "Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled." FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED "...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him." hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260 "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. " Koran 9.29

I’m known as a Moslem-lover here, Clyne, a spineless apologist. Y’s too smart for the likes of us. He’s the board intellectual.

FD’s more the comedian - he’s here for a chuckle. Old boy’s a hothead Hun Freudian - he comes here to beat the id out of us. You know, the truth shall set you free, all that.

But if you want a superior, expert opinion on Islamic lies and deceit, Y’s your man. His posts never change, and he posts the same post each and every day.

Always, absolutely, never ever.

If I was the Muselman, I’d be worried.

wally1 wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 9:03am:

yadda. stratos definition of taqiyya is right, yours is wrong. Have a good day

Ah yes, but how do we know you’re not invoking taqiyya now?

You tell us that, Moslem.

As a Karmic Khristian, Y’s bound to the truth. If he tells a lie, he needs to do penance.

Yadda wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 9:06am:

wally1 wrote on Mar 28th, 2014 at 9:03am: yadda. stratos definition of taqiyya is right, yours is wrong. Have a good day wally1, And the moon is made of green cheese. Honest!!!         :PiALL ABOUT THE MOSLEM DOCTRINE OF LYING, TO FURTHER THEIR POLITICAL AIMS.... Quote: ....Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permissible in order to deceive an "enemy." http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/011-taqiyya.htm

Yeah you would beleive that the moon is green.

Like you beleive there are three gods in one, but there is one God only.

Would you beleive someone if they said there mother and father are one person?

Karnal wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 9:13am:

I’m known as a Moslem-lover here, Clyne, a spineless apologist. .....Y’s your man. His posts never change, and he posts the same post each and every day. Always, absolutely, never ever. If I was the Muselman, I’d be worried.

Exactly so K!!       :P





K,

How can my posts change ?

I am posting on the subject of ISLAM.          ;D



And ISLAM will be the same, an unchangeable 'creature', ....from the day Mohammed took his last breath, until Allah's judgement day!

ISLAM is utterly unchangeable!



ARGUMENT;
K,

Why would moslems even entertain the idea of change [or religious reform] in ISLAM, when ISLAM is Allah's already perfect religion ?



K,

Q.
How can moslems in the world, be expected to seek to reform something which is already perfect ?

That idea, is utterly, utterly, ridiculous!!       ;)

ISLAM.

Allah's already perfect religion !!






And then there is the Koran!!

Ah the Koran!

It is Allah's word, and it is inerrant, and it has never been touched by human hands!             :P

It is Allah's inerrant Koran!!             :P



The inerrant Koran???
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1295396564/0

wally1 wrote on Mar 28^th, 2014 at 9:28am:

Yeah you would beleive that the moon is green. Like you beleive there are three gods in one, but there is one God only. Would you beleive someone if they said there mother and father are one person?

wally1,

You are mistaken.

And you are misrepresenting my belief's.



Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:






Isaiah 43:3
For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.


Isaiah 45:15
Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.


Isaiah 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.


Hosea 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.i