Quote:

Today marks 100 days since the last successful people smuggling venture to Australia.   The security of our nation is the most important responsibility of government.  This government takes its responsibilities seriously.   The Coalition went to the last election with clear policies to stop the boats. We are keeping our promise to stop the boats by doing what we said we would do.  These strong policies are saving lives.   Under Labor, more than 800 boats arrived carrying over 50,000 people, including more than 8,000 children.  This catastrophic policy failure resulted in over 1,000 lives lost at sea and $11 billion in Budget blowouts.   The Government has made the difficult but necessary decisions to stop the boats.   Operation Sovereign Borders is working as intended.  The people smugglers understand that the way to Australia is closed.   The progress we are making in strengthening our borders is restoring confidence in our migration programme.  We are an immigrant country and a successful immigration programme requires that it operates with integrity.   While this milestone recognises the progress that we have made, the Government remains resolute in our determination to stop the boats.

From the Libs .

Just guessing.

Andrei will be along soon enough to merge this with all the other boat people Threads.

Do those other threads mark a milestone of 100 days? Or does just the general topic of stopping the boats sticks in your craw?

Wait till the monsoon season ends.

Pirates Of The Current Eon

The Hidden Treasure Of Manic Island

The boats ARE arriving - they are arriving at a point designated by the Australian bully boy government, so - rather than being 'stopped' they are being shunted sideways in the fervent hope that we will not notice that the flow is the same.

The only thing more desperate than an asylum seeker is a morally destitute government seeking to turn him/her away.

If any refugee boat arrives this term, we can count it as another broken promise from the cons.

Also are the refugee boats the Abbott govt fails to notice included?

Bobby. wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 11:20pm:

Wait till the monsoon season ends.

Really, the monsoon season goes from late November to early April???

____ wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 5:10am:

If any refugee boat arrives this term, we can count it as another broken promise from the cons. Also are the refugee boats the Abbott govt fails to notice included?

If we get a refugee boat arrive, that'll be a first in many, many years. The issue we've had until Abbott became PM involved illegal immigrants - a totally different issue from refugees.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 6:00am:

____ wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 5:10am: If any refugee boat arrives this term, we can count it as another broken promise from the cons. Also are the refugee boats the Abbott govt fails to notice included? If we get a refugee boat arrive, that'll be a first in many, many years. The issue we've had until Abbott became PM involved illegal immigrants - a totally different issue from refugees.

illegal migrants is just con spin for refugees. So my question remains unanswered. Will it be a broken promise when the next boat arrives?

Sprintcyclist wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 11:09pm:

Quote: Today marks 100 days since the last successful people smuggling venture to Australia.   The security of our nation is the most important responsibility of government.  This government takes its responsibilities seriously.   The Coalition went to the last election with clear policies to stop the boats. We are keeping our promise to stop the boats by doing what we said we would do.  These strong policies are saving lives.   Under Labor, more than 800 boats arrived carrying over 50,000 people, including more than 8,000 children.  This catastrophic policy failure resulted in over 1,000 lives lost at sea and $11 billion in Budget blowouts.   The Government has made the difficult but necessary decisions to stop the boats.   Operation Sovereign Borders is working as intended.  The people smugglers understand that the way to Australia is closed.   The progress we are making in strengthening our borders is restoring confidence in our migration programme.  We are an immigrant country and a successful immigration programme requires that it operates with integrity.   While this milestone recognises the progress that we have made, the Government remains resolute in our determination to stop the boats. From the Libs .

How many boats have left Indonesia in the last 100 days? If you can say none that is when the libturds can claim that they have stop the boats.

The libturds claim that under labor there was a $11 billion budget blow out. So how much is the libturds policy costing the budget?

like I have already mention in another thread if asylum seeker have boarded a Australia warship they have reach Australia and then they can claim asylum, they don't have to land on Australia soil to claim asylum. So the question is. Is the government turning away people that are claiming asylum without processing them?

____ wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 6:11am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:00am: ____ wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 5:10am: If any refugee boat arrives this term, we can count it as another broken promise from the cons. Also are the refugee boats the Abbott govt fails to notice included? If we get a refugee boat arrive, that'll be a first in many, many years. The issue we've had until Abbott became PM involved illegal immigrants - a totally different issue from refugees. illegal migrants is just con spin for refugees. So my question remains unanswered. Will it be a broken promise when the next boat arrives?

The Coalition is simply calling them what they are. However, calling them irregular maritime arrivals (as Labor did) is absurd in the extreme. Makes it sound as if they use some legitimate, but unreliable, ferry service!!!  ;D ;D ;D

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 11:38pm:

Pirates Of The Current Eon The Hidden Treasure Of Manic Island The boats ARE arriving - they are arriving at a point designated by the Australian bully boy government, so - rather than being 'stopped' they are being shunted sideways in the fervent hope that we will not notice that the flow is the same. The only thing more desperate than an asylum seeker is a morally destitute government seeking to turn him/her away.

Hear! Hear!

Kat wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 6:49am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 11:38pm: Pirates Of The Current Eon The Hidden Treasure Of Manic Island The boats ARE arriving - they are arriving at a point designated by the Australian bully boy government, so - rather than being 'stopped' they are being shunted sideways in the fervent hope that we will not notice that the flow is the same. The only thing more desperate than an asylum seeker is a morally destitute government seeking to turn him/her away. Hear! Hear!

Wrong, the only thing more desperate is hearing from those who support these queue jumpers despite them voicing their desire on camera to kill our Navy personnel, F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here?

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 6:53am:

Kat wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:49am: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 11:38pm: Pirates Of The Current Eon The Hidden Treasure Of Manic Island The boats ARE arriving - they are arriving at a point designated by the Australian bully boy government, so - rather than being 'stopped' they are being shunted sideways in the fervent hope that we will not notice that the flow is the same. The only thing more desperate than an asylum seeker is a morally destitute government seeking to turn him/her away. Hear! Hear! Wrong, the only thing more desperate is hearing from those who support these queue jumpers despite them voicing their desire on camera to kill our Navy personnel, F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here?

No-where near as desperate as you grubs attempting to support this filthy policy.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 6:47am:

____ wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:11am: illegal migrants is just con spin for refugees. So my question remains unanswered. Will it be a broken promise when the next boat arrives? The Coalition is simply calling them what they are. However, calling them irregular maritime arrivals (as Labor did) is absurd in the extreme. Makes it sound as if they use some legitimate, but unreliable, ferry service!!!  ;D ;D ;D

The Coalition are making up crap that obscures the debate. What about illegal foreign workers on farms? Why aren't the Coalition doing anything about them? If the Coalition were consistent, they would be sending in the Department of Immigration on frequent raids on anyone caught once with illegal foreign workers to make sure they never do it again.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 6:53am:

F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here?

Even convicted racist Andrew Bolt said that the people saying these things were in a tiny amount of the people who come to Australia.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 6:53am:

Kat wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:49am: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 11:38pm: Pirates Of The Current Eon The Hidden Treasure Of Manic Island The boats ARE arriving - they are arriving at a point designated by the Australian bully boy government, so - rather than being 'stopped' they are being shunted sideways in the fervent hope that we will not notice that the flow is the same. The only thing more desperate than an asylum seeker is a morally destitute government seeking to turn him/her away. Hear! Hear! Wrong, the only thing more desperate is hearing from those who support these queue jumpers despite them voicing their desire on camera to kill our Navy personnel, F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here?

They come here because they know they can get illegal work on our farms and in many other businesses, no questions asked.

Bam wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 7:06am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:53am: Kat wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:49am: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 11:38pm: Pirates Of The Current Eon The Hidden Treasure Of Manic Island The boats ARE arriving - they are arriving at a point designated by the Australian bully boy government, so - rather than being 'stopped' they are being shunted sideways in the fervent hope that we will not notice that the flow is the same. The only thing more desperate than an asylum seeker is a morally destitute government seeking to turn him/her away. Hear! Hear! Wrong, the only thing more desperate is hearing from those who support these queue jumpers despite them voicing their desire on camera to kill our Navy personnel, F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here? They come here because they know they can get illegal work on our farms and in many other businesses, no questions asked.

So then they are NOT legitimate asylum seekers???

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 7:08am:

Bam wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 7:06am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:53am: Kat wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:49am: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 11:38pm: Pirates Of The Current Eon The Hidden Treasure Of Manic Island The boats ARE arriving - they are arriving at a point designated by the Australian bully boy government, so - rather than being 'stopped' they are being shunted sideways in the fervent hope that we will not notice that the flow is the same. The only thing more desperate than an asylum seeker is a morally destitute government seeking to turn him/her away. Hear! Hear! Wrong, the only thing more desperate is hearing from those who support these queue jumpers despite them voicing their desire on camera to kill our Navy personnel, F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here? They come here because they know they can get illegal work on our farms and in many other businesses, no questions asked. So then they are NOT legitimate asylum seekers???

Some are, some are not. It's why we need to process them - to weed out the greedy from among the persecuted.

We shouldn't penalise them though; they are the victims, not the criminals. The real criminals are the people smugglers and Australian businesses that employ people who do not have the legal right to work in Australia. Smashing the people smugglers' business model does nothing if we do not also pursue the crooked Australian businesses with equal vigour and harsh penalties.

"100 days without illegals"

Incorrect.

They still come by plane.

There's a sucker born every minute.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 7:08am:

Bam wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 7:06am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:53am: Kat wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:49am: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 11:38pm: Pirates Of The Current Eon The Hidden Treasure Of Manic Island The boats ARE arriving - they are arriving at a point designated by the Australian bully boy government, so - rather than being 'stopped' they are being shunted sideways in the fervent hope that we will not notice that the flow is the same. The only thing more desperate than an asylum seeker is a morally destitute government seeking to turn him/her away. Hear! Hear! Wrong, the only thing more desperate is hearing from those who support these queue jumpers despite them voicing their desire on camera to kill our Navy personnel, F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here? They come here because they know they can get illegal work on our farms and in many other businesses, no questions asked. So then they are NOT legitimate asylum seekers???

If they say they're seeking asylum, then they are legitimate asylum seekers.

They may not, however, be genuine refugees.

Two different terms - two different things.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 6:53am:

Kat wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:49am: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 11:38pm: Pirates Of The Current Eon The Hidden Treasure Of Manic Island The boats ARE arriving - they are arriving at a point designated by the Australian bully boy government, so - rather than being 'stopped' they are being shunted sideways in the fervent hope that we will not notice that the flow is the same. The only thing more desperate than an asylum seeker is a morally destitute government seeking to turn him/her away. Hear! Hear! Wrong, the only thing more desperate is hearing from those who support these queue jumpers despite them voicing their desire on camera to kill our Navy personnel, F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here?

"queue jumpers"    ;D

Show us the queue, AP.

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 9:22am:

"100 days without illegals" Incorrect. They still come by plane. There's a sucker born every minute.

Yes, an example of Australia's enduring boat fetish... From the 50's Yellow Peril era and the expectation of invasion by sea.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/illegal-immigrants-arrive-by-plane/story-e6frea6u-1226200568050

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches/globalpost-blogs/down-under/illegal-immigrants-australia-visa-americans

"These illegals are (mainly) Americans, Britons, Chinese, Malaysians and South Koreans who arrived in Australia by plane ... "

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 9:22am:

"100 days without illegals" Incorrect. They still come by plane. There's a sucker born every minute.

Yeah, you're one of them. They come by boat too... or did, until Abbott became PM. The ones who come by plane and overstay their Visa period aren't generally a big worry for authorities.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 9:56am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 9:22am: "100 days without illegals" Incorrect. They still come by plane. There's a sucker born every minute. The ones who come by plane and overstay their Visa period aren't generally a big worry for authorities.

This will be in the running for the funniest post of the year.

Well done, AP.  Well done.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 9:56am:

The ones who come by plane and overstay their Visa period aren't generally a big worry for authorities.

Or Australians, it seems.

"The 58,400 foreign citizens hiding illegally among us easily outnumber the populations of Mildura or Shepparton - Victoria's fifth and sixth biggest cities.

"And they dwarf the 4700 asylum seekers who arrived by boat in 2010-11."

AP says there's nothing to worry about though   ;)




(The same AP who lied about confirmation of the missing plane wreckage, but still hasn't got the balls to apologise).

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 10:01am:

"The 58,400 foreign citizens hiding illegally among us easily outnumber the populations of Mildura or Shepparton - Victoria's fifth and sixth biggest cities. "And they dwarf the 4700 asylum seekers who arrived by boat in 2010-11." AP says there's nothing to worry about though   ;) (The same AP who lied about confirmation of the missing plane wreckage, but still hasn't got the balls to apologise).

So the Visa overstayers put the lives of authorities at risk on a daily basis? They sabotage and commit self-harm? They threaten to kill authorities? Yeah, HUGE problem!  ::)

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 9:57am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 9:56am: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 9:22am: "100 days without illegals" Incorrect. They still come by plane. There's a sucker born every minute. The ones who come by plane and overstay their Visa period aren't generally a big worry for authorities. This will be in the running for the funniest post of the year. Well done, AP.  Well done.

No, you get that award every time you come up with some lame excuse as to why those people who come by boat are not illegal immigrants, LMAO!!!  ;D ;D ;D

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 10:06am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 9:57am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 9:56am: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 9:22am: "100 days without illegals" Incorrect. They still come by plane. There's a sucker born every minute. The ones who come by plane and overstay their Visa period aren't generally a big worry for authorities. This will be in the running for the funniest post of the year. Well done, AP.  Well done. No, you get that award every time you come up with some lame excuse as to why those people who come by boat are not illegal immigrants, LMAO!!!  ;D ;D ;D

No excuse needed: they aren't illegal immigrants.

This is not merely my subjective opinion: it's an indisputable fact.

Keep digging that hole though.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 9:58am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 9:56am: The ones who come by plane and overstay their Visa period aren't generally a big worry for authorities. Or Australians, it seems.

That's because they're obedient little vegemites.

They've only been told to be frightened of boat people.

Being concerned about anything other than what the government and the media tell them to be concerned with, would involve thinking for themselves.

Now come on, do you really expect people like AP, Soren, et al. to think for themselves?   

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 10:05am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 10:01am: "The 58,400 foreign citizens hiding illegally among us easily outnumber the populations of Mildura or Shepparton - Victoria's fifth and sixth biggest cities. "And they dwarf the 4700 asylum seekers who arrived by boat in 2010-11." AP says there's nothing to worry about though   ;) (The same AP who lied about confirmation of the missing plane wreckage, but still hasn't got the balls to apologise). So the Visa overstayers put the lives of authorities at risk on a daily basis? They sabotage and commit self-harm? They threaten to kill authorities? Yeah, HUGE problem!  ::)

Even accepting that...

Why is it that you do not see overstayers (in effect illegal immigrants who, by the way, are unlikely to be paying taxes), as a worry?

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 10:35am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 10:05am: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 10:01am: "The 58,400 foreign citizens hiding illegally among us easily outnumber the populations of Mildura or Shepparton - Victoria's fifth and sixth biggest cities. "And they dwarf the 4700 asylum seekers who arrived by boat in 2010-11." AP says there's nothing to worry about though   ;) (The same AP who lied about confirmation of the missing plane wreckage, but still hasn't got the balls to apologise). So the Visa overstayers put the lives of authorities at risk on a daily basis? They sabotage and commit self-harm? They threaten to kill authorities? Yeah, HUGE problem!  ::) Even accepting that... Why is it that you do not see overstayers (in effect illegal immigrants who, by the way, are unlikely to be paying taxes), as a worry?

That's easy.

1. They aren't on boats.

2. They aren't gay.

Gays and boats are the two biggest threats to civilisation since ... well ... since the beginning of time really.

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 10:17am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 9:58am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 9:56am: The ones who come by plane and overstay their Visa period aren't generally a big worry for authorities. Or Australians, it seems. That's because they're obedient little vegemites. They've only been told to be frightened of boat people. Being concerned about anything other than what the government and the media tell them to be concerned with, would involve thinking for themselves.

I think its more complex than that...

I think people arriving by boat triggers a latent fear in the Australian psyche.

Stratos wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 7:05am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:53am: F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here? Even convicted racist Andrew Bolt said that the people saying these things were in a tiny amount of the people who come to Australia.

how many terrorists do u think is an acceptable number?

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 9:22am:

"100 days without illegals" Incorrect. They still come by plane. There's a sucker born every minute.

but with a visa, a passport and identification making returning them not only possible but a frequent occurence.

now if boat people arrived with passports and identification.... but they don't.  and why don't they???

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 11:48am:

Stratos wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 7:05am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:53am: F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here? Even convicted racist Andrew Bolt said that the people saying these things were in a tiny amount of the people who come to Australia. how many terrorists do u think is an acceptable number?

I'm pretty sure terrorists know how to buy plane tickets.

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 11:53am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:48am: Stratos wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 7:05am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:53am: F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here? Even convicted racist Andrew Bolt said that the people saying these things were in a tiny amount of the people who come to Australia. how many terrorists do u think is an acceptable number? I'm pretty sure terrorists know how to buy plane tickets.

And you are pretty sure because of the incredible large amount of data that leads you this conclusion? The fact that these people hide their identities not only raises deep suspicions about their motives but would be the ideal way for a known terrorist to come here.

You are both smug and naïve - a dangerous combination.

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 11:49am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 9:22am: "100 days without illegals" Incorrect. They still come by plane. There's a sucker born every minute. but with a visa, a passport and identification making returning them not only possible but a frequent occurence. now if boat people arrived with passports and identification.... but they don't.  and why don't they???

You can of course name how many people to arrive in Australia via a boat have been charged with terrorism can't you?

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 10:05am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 10:01am: "The 58,400 foreign citizens hiding illegally among us easily outnumber the populations of Mildura or Shepparton - Victoria's fifth and sixth biggest cities. "And they dwarf the 4700 asylum seekers who arrived by boat in 2010-11." AP says there's nothing to worry about though   ;) (The same AP who lied about confirmation of the missing plane wreckage, but still hasn't got the balls to apologise). So the Visa overstayers put the lives of authorities at risk on a daily basis? They sabotage and commit self-harm? They threaten to kill authorities? Yeah, HUGE problem!  ::)

You are being disingenuous and are cherrypicking. Illegal immigrants create different problems (see thread: Illegal Workers Rife In Rural Victoria).

It is silly to think that people arriving in the country are only a problem if they are on a boat on the high seas but arriving by plane or undetected boat arrivals are not a problem.

Wait until people smugglers realise that the most porous part of Australia's border is the Torres Strait, where inhabitants of the Torres Strait islands can move freely between Australia and PNG without any border checks and any documentation, agreed by treaty with PNG.

Bam wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 12:01pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 10:05am: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 10:01am: "The 58,400 foreign citizens hiding illegally among us easily outnumber the populations of Mildura or Shepparton - Victoria's fifth and sixth biggest cities. "And they dwarf the 4700 asylum seekers who arrived by boat in 2010-11." AP says there's nothing to worry about though   ;) (The same AP who lied about confirmation of the missing plane wreckage, but still hasn't got the balls to apologise). So the Visa overstayers put the lives of authorities at risk on a daily basis? They sabotage and commit self-harm? They threaten to kill authorities? Yeah, HUGE problem!  ::) You are being disingenuous and are cherrypicking. Illegal immigrants create different problems (see thread: Illegal Workers Rife In Rural Victoria). It is silly to think that people arriving in the country are only a problem if they are on a boat on the high seas but arriving by plane or undetected boat arrivals are not a problem. Wait until people smugglers realise that the most porous part of Australia's border is the Torres Strait, where inhabitants of the Torres Strait islands can move freely between Australia and PNG without any border checks and any documentation, agreed by treaty with PNG.

Undetected plane arrivals?  Do you have evidence to support that this has ever happened, never mind being an actual recurring problem?

I don't think it is unfair to question the motives and character of people who arrive with deliberate lack of identification and through illegal means. In fact, I think to not do so would be both naïve and foolish and potentially dangerous.

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 11:49am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 9:22am: "100 days without illegals" Incorrect. They still come by plane. There's a sucker born every minute. but with a visa, a passport and identification making returning them not only possible but a frequent occurence. now if boat people arrived with passports and identification.... but they don't.  and why don't they???

Doesn't the issue of those 2 travellers on MH370 using stolen passports rattle your complacency about visas and passports?

We have nearly 60,000 overstayers (illegal immigrants) in Australia, who are not scrutinised to even a fraction of a degree that those arriving by boat are...

Does none of this worry you that much? (given your concern with 'boat people' regarding their identity).

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 12:06pm:

Undetected plane arrivals?  Do you have evidence to support that this has ever happened, never mind being an actual recurring problem?

A jumbo jet vanishes and you don't believe its possible for light planes to arrive undetected??!!

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 12:06pm:

Bam wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 12:01pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 10:05am: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 10:01am: "The 58,400 foreign citizens hiding illegally among us easily outnumber the populations of Mildura or Shepparton - Victoria's fifth and sixth biggest cities. "And they dwarf the 4700 asylum seekers who arrived by boat in 2010-11." AP says there's nothing to worry about though   ;) (The same AP who lied about confirmation of the missing plane wreckage, but still hasn't got the balls to apologise). So the Visa overstayers put the lives of authorities at risk on a daily basis? They sabotage and commit self-harm? They threaten to kill authorities? Yeah, HUGE problem!  ::) You are being disingenuous and are cherrypicking. Illegal immigrants create different problems (see thread: Illegal Workers Rife In Rural Victoria). It is silly to think that people arriving in the country are only a problem if they are on a boat on the high seas but arriving by plane or undetected boat arrivals are not a problem. Wait until people smugglers realise that the most porous part of Australia's border is the Torres Strait, where inhabitants of the Torres Strait islands can move freely between Australia and PNG without any border checks and any documentation, agreed by treaty with PNG. Undetected plane arrivals?  Do you have evidence to support that this has ever happened, never mind being an actual recurring problem? I don't think it is unfair to question the motives and character of people who arrive with deliberate lack of identification and through illegal means. In fact, I think to not do so would be both naïve and foolish and potentially dangerous.

Seeing you're  a man of such deep thought, maybe you can share with us how many arrivals by boat have had terrorism charges laid against them?????

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 11:58am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:53am: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:48am: Stratos wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 7:05am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:53am: F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here? Even convicted racist Andrew Bolt said that the people saying these things were in a tiny amount of the people who come to Australia. how many terrorists do u think is an acceptable number? I'm pretty sure terrorists know how to buy plane tickets. And you are pretty sure because of the incredible large amount of data that leads you this conclusion? The fact that these people hide their identities not only raises deep suspicions about their motives but would be the ideal way for a known terrorist to come here. You are both smug and naïve - a dangerous combination.

as opposed to foolish and naive

how many terrorist activities have ever been attributed to anyone arriving by boat? Now how many terrorist activites have been attributed peoples who arrived by plane?

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 12:12pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:49am: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 9:22am: "100 days without illegals" Incorrect. They still come by plane. There's a sucker born every minute. but with a visa, a passport and identification making returning them not only possible but a frequent occurence. now if boat people arrived with passports and identification.... but they don't.  and why don't they??? Doesn't the issue of those 2 travellers on MH370 using stolen passports rattle your complacency about visas and passports? We have nearly 60,000 overstayers (illegal immigrants) in Australia, who are not scrutinised to even a fraction of a degree that those arriving by boat are... Does none of this worry you that much? (given your concern with 'boat people' regarding their identity).

never mind the fact that since 50 000 asylum seekers arrived under labor and all handed their smugglers their passports, the smugglers now have 50 000 passports in their possession

what do they think they did with them? at a few thousand dollars a pop, thats a lot of cash in their hands ... who do you think is going to buy them?

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 12:06pm:

Undetected plane arrivals?  Do you have evidence to support that this has ever happened, never mind being an actual recurring problem?

People overstay their visas and then cannot be found. Do try to keep up.


Quote:

I don't think it is unfair to question the motives and character of people who arrive with deliberate lack of identification and through illegal means. In fact, I think to not do so would be both naïve and foolish and potentially dangerous.

It is naive and foolish and potentially dangerous to ignore the fact that most people who are currently in the country illegally have arrived by plane.

John Smith wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 12:23pm:

never mind the fact that since 50 000 asylum seekers arrived under labor and all handed their smugglers their passports, the smugglers now have 50 000 passports in their possession what do they think they did with them? at a few thousand dollars a pop, thats a lot of cash in their hands ... who do you think is going to buy them?

You don't need to travel or be an asylum seeker to sell your identification documents...

So, never mind, 50,000... How about 50 million??

100 days without illegals


'It's fine for the prime minister and (Immigration Minister Scott Morrison) to stand in front of big banners on this issue, but ... the critical piece of policy which changed the game here was the arrangement which Labor put in place," Mr Marles said.

The most important step Australia had taken in reducing the loss of life at sea was the regional resettlement arrangement with Papua New Guinea that Labor put in place last year, he said.

Ninety per cent of the flow of boats had stopped before the election occurred, Mr Marles said'

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/22242405/pm-celebrating-an-alp-win-on-boats-marles/

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 12:26pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 12:23pm: never mind the fact that since 50 000 asylum seekers arrived under labor and all handed their smugglers their passports, the smugglers now have 50 000 passports in their possession what do they think they did with them? at a few thousand dollars a pop, thats a lot of cash in their hands ... who do you think is going to buy them? You don't need to travel or be an asylum seeker to sell your identification documents... So, never mind, 50,000... How about 50 million??

true .... hell, I'd sell mine if they offered enough ...

a lot of travellers out there run out of money would do it ... then they go to their embassy and claim it was lost ..

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 12:14pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 12:06pm: Undetected plane arrivals?  Do you have evidence to support that this has ever happened, never mind being an actual recurring problem? A jumbo jet vanishes and you don't believe its possible for light planes to arrive undetected??!!

My point was about proof that it is ever happened at all. your comment about MH370 seems pointless. Either there have been light plane arrivals or not but without any proof it has ever happened then you simply cant claim it is a genuine problem.

For that matter, how many terrorist activities are home grown?

It's obvious that attempting to enter the country via the airport involves far greater checks than jumping on a people smuggling boat lost in a crowd of similar appearance particularly from the Middle Eastern countries.

John Smith wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 12:27pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 12:26pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 12:23pm: never mind the fact that since 50 000 asylum seekers arrived under labor and all handed their smugglers their passports, the smugglers now have 50 000 passports in their possession what do they think they did with them? at a few thousand dollars a pop, thats a lot of cash in their hands ... who do you think is going to buy them? You don't need to travel or be an asylum seeker to sell your identification documents... So, never mind, 50,000... How about 50 million?? true .... hell, I'd sell mine if they offered enough ... a lot of travellers out there run out of money would do it ... then they go to their embassy and claim it was lost ..

But, at least then an authorised agency would have a record of the passport having been lost or stolen...

How about those who apply and receive travel documents, sell them and never report them lost or stolen??

How about a rogue nation supplying valid travel documents to their own spies and terrorists...

I can't understand the complacency that we seem to have towards bits of paper that purport to identify us.

Even friendly nations issue false identity papers to their spies.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 12:12pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:49am: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 9:22am: "100 days without illegals" Incorrect. They still come by plane. There's a sucker born every minute. but with a visa, a passport and identification making returning them not only possible but a frequent occurence. now if boat people arrived with passports and identification.... but they don't.  and why don't they??? Doesn't the issue of those 2 travellers on MH370 using stolen passports rattle your complacency about visas and passports? We have nearly 60,000 overstayers (illegal immigrants) in Australia, who are not scrutinised to even a fraction of a degree that those arriving by boat are... Does none of this worry you that much? (given your concern with 'boat people' regarding their identity).

I don't know how you can possibly equate the chance that someone might arrive on a false passport and the guaranteed certainly that 100% of boat arrivals are doing so.

You guys do realise that while not all, a great many of asylum seekers are fleeing their own government, because they are persecuted there (see Sri Lankan Tamils, Burmese Rohingya etc.)  The chance of trying to get official papers from their government before fleeing the country for these people is pretty much zero.

The Sri Lankan government actually strongly punishes the people who try to escape, and news flash, when a government wants to keep it's own hated and discriminated against minority from fleeing it's borders, it's not to give them a nice cup of their famous Ceylon tea.

Well, I know the thread is not about semantics but here's the thing.

By calling refugees (or even potential refugees) "illegals" that is branding every single one of them because of the actions of a few....

Now, if we look at a parallel to that, gun enthusiasts seem all put out and have their little foot stamping episodes because they perceive gun laws as punishing them all because of a few....

Just an observation...

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 12:35pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 12:12pm: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:49am: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 9:22am: "100 days without illegals" Incorrect. They still come by plane. There's a sucker born every minute. but with a visa, a passport and identification making returning them not only possible but a frequent occurence. now if boat people arrived with passports and identification.... but they don't.  and why don't they??? Doesn't the issue of those 2 travellers on MH370 using stolen passports rattle your complacency about visas and passports? We have nearly 60,000 overstayers (illegal immigrants) in Australia, who are not scrutinised to even a fraction of a degree that those arriving by boat are... Does none of this worry you that much? (given your concern with 'boat people' regarding their identity). I don't know how you can possibly equate the chance that someone might arrive on a false passport and the guaranteed certainly that 100% of boat arrivals are doing so.

Well, the obvious issue would be that all asylum seekers arriving by boat present themselves to Australia authorities...

How many arriving with fake passports and ID subsequently present themselves to authorities? If you were trying to disappear into Australian society and managed to pass border control, it would be a little counter productive to than hand yourself in... Falsifying your identity is a crime and the likelihood of your being treated sympathetically by Australian authorities would, in that instance, be remote. More likely a jail sentence then deportation.

John Smith wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 12:19pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:58am: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:53am: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:48am: Stratos wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 7:05am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:53am: F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here? Even convicted racist Andrew Bolt said that the people saying these things were in a tiny amount of the people who come to Australia. how many terrorists do u think is an acceptable number? I'm pretty sure terrorists know how to buy plane tickets. And you are pretty sure because of the incredible large amount of data that leads you this conclusion? The fact that these people hide their identities not only raises deep suspicions about their motives but would be the ideal way for a known terrorist to come here. You are both smug and naïve - a dangerous combination. as opposed to foolish and naive how many terrorist activities have ever been attributed to anyone arriving by boat? Now how many terrorist activites have been attributed peoples who arrived by plane?

I admit to being a bit surprised at your response and that of skippy.  it would appear that your naivete runs quite deep. Do you think you wait until a terrorist attack before taking any preventative measures? Do you simply assume that every person who comes by illegal means after disposing of the identity is Mother Teresa's long lost brother?  I am not saying these people are evil, but to presume they are all honest and just and genuine is ludicrously naïve.

Rhet-Oracle wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 12:29pm:

It's obvious that attempting to enter the country via the airport involves far greater checks than jumping on a people smuggling boat lost in a crowd of similar appearance particularly from the Middle Eastern countries.

Except that there's the likelihood of months or years in detention when arriving by boat...

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 12:45pm:

I am not saying these people are evil, but to presume they are all honest and just and genuine is ludicrously naïve.

Well that would be why Australia processes asylum seekers' claims wouldn't it?

However, that presumption is made with every single person who enters Australia with identity papers...

Evidently nearly 60,000 of them are not honest and just and genuine... But it just doesn't seem to raise an eyebrow...

How many more may be living here under false identity? Who knows? Guess we'll have to wait until, like with the case of Ronnie Biggs, someone works it out.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 11:09pm:

The Coalition went to the last election with clear policies to stop the boats

Policies ?

They came to the election with SLOGANS !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVuoEiD8dMo





Those "policies" had ALREADY been put in place - to the utter DISGUST of this ( ... and many a ) SOCIALIST HUMANITARIAN  - months earlier, in a populist vote grab, by the Rudd Government




http://www.abc.net.au/news/linkableblob/5144104/data/asylum-seekers-arrived-by-boat-weekly-jul-19---nov-29-data.jpg

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 12:43pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 12:35pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 12:12pm: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:49am: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 9:22am: "100 days without illegals" Incorrect. They still come by plane. There's a sucker born every minute. but with a visa, a passport and identification making returning them not only possible but a frequent occurence. now if boat people arrived with passports and identification.... but they don't.  and why don't they??? Doesn't the issue of those 2 travellers on MH370 using stolen passports rattle your complacency about visas and passports? We have nearly 60,000 overstayers (illegal immigrants) in Australia, who are not scrutinised to even a fraction of a degree that those arriving by boat are... Does none of this worry you that much? (given your concern with 'boat people' regarding their identity). I don't know how you can possibly equate the chance that someone might arrive on a false passport and the guaranteed certainly that 100% of boat arrivals are doing so. Well, the obvious issue would be that all asylum seekers arriving by boat present themselves to Australia authorities... How many arriving with fake passports and ID subsequently present themselves to authorities? If you were trying to disappear into Australian society and managed to pass border control, it would be a little counter productive to than hand yourself in... Falsifying your identity is a crime and the likelihood of your being treated sympathetically by Australian authorities would, in that instance, be remote. More likely a jail sentence then deportation.

I am trying/struggling to get your logic since there appears to be so little. Boat people 'present themselves'? Many did no such thing and the rest do so only to get a safer ride in.  It is hardly the up-front ethical route, but rather just the easy thing.

What I am trying to do is to get a handle on why you and others on this thread simply want to shout 'everyone come to Australia!  no ID needed,  No job or skills needed'.

How many are you willing to take because there is no end to the number. 

So... how many do you think we should allow to come here by boat?

It would appear that to some the very idea of border protection is considered solely exclusionary, and nothing to do with protecting the country and it's populace. Most logical people would applaud measures which provide a level of peace of mind and security, unfortunately categorising all boat arrivals as asylum seekers is grossly naive and manically dangerous.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 12:47pm:

Rhet-Oracle wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 12:29pm: It's obvious that attempting to enter the country via the airport involves far greater checks than jumping on a people smuggling boat lost in a crowd of similar appearance particularly from the Middle Eastern countries. Except that there's the likelihood of months or years in detention when arriving by boat...

But not by the light planes you claim do the same and yet provide no evidence or any media reports EVER to confirm.

John S wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 6:25am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 11:09pm: Quote: Today marks 100 days since the last successful people smuggling venture to Australia.   The security of our nation is the most important responsibility of government.  This government takes its responsibilities seriously.   The Coalition went to the last election with clear policies to stop the boats. We are keeping our promise to stop the boats by doing what we said we would do.  These strong policies are saving lives.   Under Labor, more than 800 boats arrived carrying over 50,000 people, including more than 8,000 children.  This catastrophic policy failure resulted in over 1,000 lives lost at sea and $11 billion in Budget blowouts.   The Government has made the difficult but necessary decisions to stop the boats.   Operation Sovereign Borders is working as intended.  The people smugglers understand that the way to Australia is closed.   The progress we are making in strengthening our borders is restoring confidence in our migration programme.  We are an immigrant country and a successful immigration programme requires that it operates with integrity.   While this milestone recognises the progress that we have made, the Government remains resolute in our determination to stop the boats. From the Libs . How many boats have left Indonesia in the last 100 days? If you can say none that is when the libturds can claim that they have stop the boats. The libturds claim that under labor there was a $11 billion budget blow out. So how much is the libturds policy costing the budget? like I have already mention in another thread if asylum seeker have boarded a Australia warship they have reach Australia and then they can claim asylum, they don't have to land on Australia soil to claim asylum. So the question is. Is the government turning away people that are claiming asylum without processing them?

That's a load of garbage when did the government ever say they'd stop them leaving Indonesian ports.
liar liar pants on fire...
100 days and counting labturd,  that is the correct term i should use for you wise one isn't it?

Rhet-Oracle wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:00pm:

It would appear that to some the very idea of border protection is considered solely exclusionary, and nothing to do with protecting the country and it's populace. Most logical people would applaud measures which provide a level of peace of mind and security, unfortunately categorising all boat arrivals as asylum seekers is grossly naive and manically dangerous.

Legal boat arrivals
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Sydney_Opera_House_and_luxury_cruise_ship_2005.jpg/800px-Sydney_Opera_House_and_luxury_cruise_ship_2005.jpg

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 12:45pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 12:19pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:58am: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:53am: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:48am: Stratos wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 7:05am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:53am: F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here? Even convicted racist Andrew Bolt said that the people saying these things were in a tiny amount of the people who come to Australia. how many terrorists do u think is an acceptable number? I'm pretty sure terrorists know how to buy plane tickets. And you are pretty sure because of the incredible large amount of data that leads you this conclusion? The fact that these people hide their identities not only raises deep suspicions about their motives but would be the ideal way for a known terrorist to come here. You are both smug and naïve - a dangerous combination. as opposed to foolish and naive how many terrorist activities have ever been attributed to anyone arriving by boat? Now how many terrorist activites have been attributed peoples who arrived by plane? I admit to being a bit surprised at your response and that of skippy.  it would appear that your naivete runs quite deep. Do you think you wait until a terrorist attack before taking any preventative measures? Do you simply assume that every person who comes by illegal means after disposing of the identity is Mother Teresa's long lost brother?  I am not saying these people are evil, but to presume they are all honest and just and genuine is ludicrously naïve.

so you couldn't find any terrorists having entered by boat either? goodo

as for your other crap, thats all it is crap that panders to brain dead red necks ... if you want to worry about poreventative measures to stop terrorists, then stop letting terrorists in by plane.

Rhet-Oracle wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:00pm:

It would appear that to some the very idea of border protection is considered solely exclusionary, and nothing to do with protecting the country and it's populace. Most logical people would applaud measures which provide a level of peace of mind and security, unfortunately categorising all boat arrivals as asylum seekers is grossly naive and manically dangerous.

illegals
http://images.smh.com.au/2013/10/20/4845316/refugee169-408x264.jpg

Kat wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 7:03am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:53am: Kat wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:49am: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 11:38pm: Pirates Of The Current Eon The Hidden Treasure Of Manic Island The boats ARE arriving - they are arriving at a point designated by the Australian bully boy government, so - rather than being 'stopped' they are being shunted sideways in the fervent hope that we will not notice that the flow is the same. The only thing more desperate than an asylum seeker is a morally destitute government seeking to turn him/her away. Hear! Hear! Wrong, the only thing more desperate is hearing from those who support these queue jumpers despite them voicing their desire on camera to kill our Navy personnel, F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here? No-where near as desperate as you grubs attempting to support this filthy policy.

There's nothing filthy about it.
How many illegals have died in boat disasters in the last 100 days?

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:00pm:

What I am trying to do is to get a handle on why you and others on this thread simply want to shout 'everyone come to Australia!  no ID needed,  No job or skills needed'. How many are you willing to take because there is no end to the number.  So... how many do you think we should allow to come here by boat?

I'm not shouting that at all...

In fact if those 60000 overstayers left next week, maybe job opportunities would be available to citizens and legal permanent residents.

I'm questioning the hysteria that boat arrivals generate in Australia, while entry by plane, overstaying and the issue of fake passports do not generate the same hysteria.

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:00pm:

I am trying/struggling to get your logic

something I'd have thought you'd be used to


Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:00pm:

Boat people 'present themselves'?

of course they do ... thats when they claim asylum


Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:00pm:

Many did no such thing and the rest do so only to get a safer ride in

ride in?  ...  ;D ;D ;D they present themselves once they've arrived
Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:00pm:

What I am trying to do is to get a handle on why you and others on this thread simply want to shout 'everyone come to Australia!  no ID needed,  No job or skills needed'

show me a link to one person who has said that?


Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:00pm:

how many do you think we should allow to come here by boat?

at the moment the limit is set to just over 13 000 a year, but I think that should go up to at the very least 20 000.

Bam wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 7:05am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:47am: ____ wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:11am: illegal migrants is just con spin for refugees. So my question remains unanswered. Will it be a broken promise when the next boat arrives? The Coalition is simply calling them what they are. However, calling them irregular maritime arrivals (as Labor did) is absurd in the extreme. Makes it sound as if they use some legitimate, but unreliable, ferry service!!!  ;D ;D ;D The Coalition are making up crap that obscures the debate. What about illegal foreign workers on farms? Why aren't the Coalition doing anything about them? If the Coalition were consistent, they would be sending in the Department of Immigration on frequent raids on anyone caught once with illegal foreign workers to make sure they never do it again.

I have friends that work for the Dept of Immigration they go on raids on a daily basis...  They put people in Villawood daily...  perhaps they need more staff.

Grendel wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:07pm:

Kat wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 7:03am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:53am: Kat wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:49am: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 11:38pm: Pirates Of The Current Eon The Hidden Treasure Of Manic Island The boats ARE arriving - they are arriving at a point designated by the Australian bully boy government, so - rather than being 'stopped' they are being shunted sideways in the fervent hope that we will not notice that the flow is the same. The only thing more desperate than an asylum seeker is a morally destitute government seeking to turn him/her away. Hear! Hear! Wrong, the only thing more desperate is hearing from those who support these queue jumpers despite them voicing their desire on camera to kill our Navy personnel, F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here? No-where near as desperate as you grubs attempting to support this filthy policy. There's nothing filthy about it. How many illegals have died in boat disasters in the last 100 days?

Yes the putrid bile spewed forth by some makes one wonder just how they were brought up. Kat goes from thread to thread posting rubbish directed at anybody he disagrees with.

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:01pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 12:47pm: Rhet-Oracle wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 12:29pm: It's obvious that attempting to enter the country via the airport involves far greater checks than jumping on a people smuggling boat lost in a crowd of similar appearance particularly from the Middle Eastern countries. Except that there's the likelihood of months or years in detention when arriving by boat... But not by the light planes you claim do the same and yet provide no evidence or any media reports EVER to confirm.

I made no such claim.

I suggested the possibility that a light plane could enter Australian airspace undetected... Using MH370 as an example that sometimes the unimaginable happens... How often it happens (light planes entering Australian airspace undetected), I wouldn't know because they'd have been undetected.

Grendel wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:07pm:

Kat wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 7:03am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:53am: Kat wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:49am: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 11:38pm: Pirates Of The Current Eon The Hidden Treasure Of Manic Island The boats ARE arriving - they are arriving at a point designated by the Australian bully boy government, so - rather than being 'stopped' they are being shunted sideways in the fervent hope that we will not notice that the flow is the same. The only thing more desperate than an asylum seeker is a morally destitute government seeking to turn him/her away. Hear! Hear! Wrong, the only thing more desperate is hearing from those who support these queue jumpers despite them voicing their desire on camera to kill our Navy personnel, F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here? No-where near as desperate as you grubs attempting to support this filthy policy. There's nothing filthy about it. How many illegals have died in boat disasters in the last 100 days?

Zero, ever.

The boats don't carry illegals.

You need to keep up.

MH370 is not a "light plane".

Flying to Australia by "light plane" would involve refuelling. It really depends on what you mean by "light".

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 11:58am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:53am: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:48am: Stratos wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 7:05am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:53am: F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here? Even convicted racist Andrew Bolt said that the people saying these things were in a tiny amount of the people who come to Australia. how many terrorists do u think is an acceptable number? I'm pretty sure terrorists know how to buy plane tickets. And you are pretty sure because of the incredible large amount of data that leads you this conclusion?

This makes me pretty sure:


http://davemcbride.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/911-Hijackers.jpg


Don't get out much, do you?

Stratos wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 7:05am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:53am: F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here? Even convicted racist Andrew Bolt said that the people saying these things were in a tiny amount of the people who come to Australia.

Convicted racist?  Puhlease...
A criminal finding was it?
A breach of the discrimination act wasn't it?

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:15pm:

Grendel wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:07pm: Kat wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 7:03am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:53am: Kat wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:49am: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 11:38pm: Pirates Of The Current Eon The Hidden Treasure Of Manic Island The boats ARE arriving - they are arriving at a point designated by the Australian bully boy government, so - rather than being 'stopped' they are being shunted sideways in the fervent hope that we will not notice that the flow is the same. The only thing more desperate than an asylum seeker is a morally destitute government seeking to turn him/her away. Hear! Hear! Wrong, the only thing more desperate is hearing from those who support these queue jumpers despite them voicing their desire on camera to kill our Navy personnel, F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here? No-where near as desperate as you grubs attempting to support this filthy policy. There's nothing filthy about it. How many illegals have died in boat disasters in the last 100 days? Zero, ever. The boats don't carry illegals. You need to keep up.

Hope you realise that because of your innate stupidity here, I now ignore most of what you post...
the above is a prime example why.
have a nice day  :D :D :D ;D

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 12:45pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 12:19pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:58am: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:53am: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:48am: Stratos wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 7:05am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:53am: F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here? Even convicted racist Andrew Bolt said that the people saying these things were in a tiny amount of the people who come to Australia. how many terrorists do u think is an acceptable number? I'm pretty sure terrorists know how to buy plane tickets. And you are pretty sure because of the incredible large amount of data that leads you this conclusion? The fact that these people hide their identities not only raises deep suspicions about their motives but would be the ideal way for a known terrorist to come here. You are both smug and naïve - a dangerous combination. as opposed to foolish and naive how many terrorist activities have ever been attributed to anyone arriving by boat? Now how many terrorist activites have been attributed peoples who arrived by plane? I admit to being a bit surprised at your response and that of skippy.  it would appear that your naivete runs quite deep. Do you think you wait until a terrorist attack before taking any preventative measures? Do you simply assume that every person who comes by illegal means after disposing of the identity is Mother Teresa's long lost brother?  I am not saying these people are evil, but to presume they are all honest and just and genuine is ludicrously naïve.

Nobody in this forum is presuming they are all innocent.

You need to read posts more carefully.

Rhet-Oracle wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:16pm:

MH370 is not a "light plane".

True. That would be the point of the comparison... If a jumbo jet can 'vanish', why not a light plane landing undetected in Australia?


Rhet-Oracle wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:16pm:

Flying to Australia by "light plane" would involve refuelling. It really depends on what you mean by "light".

And from where you're flying from, I guess.

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:22pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 12:45pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 12:19pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:58am: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:53am: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:48am: Stratos wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 7:05am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:53am: F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here? Even convicted racist Andrew Bolt said that the people saying these things were in a tiny amount of the people who come to Australia. how many terrorists do u think is an acceptable number? I'm pretty sure terrorists know how to buy plane tickets. And you are pretty sure because of the incredible large amount of data that leads you this conclusion? The fact that these people hide their identities not only raises deep suspicions about their motives but would be the ideal way for a known terrorist to come here. You are both smug and naïve - a dangerous combination. as opposed to foolish and naive how many terrorist activities have ever been attributed to anyone arriving by boat? Now how many terrorist activites have been attributed peoples who arrived by plane? I admit to being a bit surprised at your response and that of skippy.  it would appear that your naivete runs quite deep. Do you think you wait until a terrorist attack before taking any preventative measures? Do you simply assume that every person who comes by illegal means after disposing of the identity is Mother Teresa's long lost brother?  I am not saying these people are evil, but to presume they are all honest and just and genuine is ludicrously naïve. Nobody in this forum is presuming they are all innocent. You need to read posts more carefully.

Ya mean you are offering a white flag?

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:08pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:00pm: What I am trying to do is to get a handle on why you and others on this thread simply want to shout 'everyone come to Australia!  no ID needed,  No job or skills needed'. How many are you willing to take because there is no end to the number.  So... how many do you think we should allow to come here by boat? I'm not shouting that at all... In fact if those 60000 overstayers left next week, maybe job opportunities would be available to citizens and legal permanent residents. I'm questioning the hysteria that boat arrivals generate in Australia, while entry by plane, overstaying and the issue of fake passports do not generate the same hysteria.

I would be interested in your source of this 60,000 figure.  Having travelled a lot and knowing a large number of frequent travellers I also know a number who have overstayed visa - usually by accident.  They would be included in numbers like yours. But the difference is, they left.

So my question is not how many visa over-stayers there are now, but how many have over-stayed and stayed permanently.  That is the actual figure to compare to boat arrivals. I have done a lot of analytical work in my life and when comparing two sets of data you first need to convert them to comparable units or value.  I would like you to do the same.

Grendel wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:20pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:15pm: Grendel wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:07pm: Kat wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 7:03am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:53am: Kat wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:49am: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 11:38pm: Pirates Of The Current Eon The Hidden Treasure Of Manic Island The boats ARE arriving - they are arriving at a point designated by the Australian bully boy government, so - rather than being 'stopped' they are being shunted sideways in the fervent hope that we will not notice that the flow is the same. The only thing more desperate than an asylum seeker is a morally destitute government seeking to turn him/her away. Hear! Hear! Wrong, the only thing more desperate is hearing from those who support these queue jumpers despite them voicing their desire on camera to kill our Navy personnel, F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here? No-where near as desperate as you grubs attempting to support this filthy policy. There's nothing filthy about it. How many illegals have died in boat disasters in the last 100 days? Zero, ever. The boats don't carry illegals. You need to keep up. Hope you realise that because of your innate stupidity here, I now ignore most of what you post... the above is a prime example why. have a nice day  :D :D :D ;D

All you have to do in order to redeem yourself, is provide some evidence that an "illegal" has died in a boat disaster on the way to Australia.

Over to you ... (oh, this should be good) ...

Bam wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 7:47am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 7:08am: Bam wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 7:06am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:53am: Kat wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:49am: Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 29th, 2014 at 11:38pm: Pirates Of The Current Eon The Hidden Treasure Of Manic Island The boats ARE arriving - they are arriving at a point designated by the Australian bully boy government, so - rather than being 'stopped' they are being shunted sideways in the fervent hope that we will not notice that the flow is the same. The only thing more desperate than an asylum seeker is a morally destitute government seeking to turn him/her away. Hear! Hear! Wrong, the only thing more desperate is hearing from those who support these queue jumpers despite them voicing their desire on camera to kill our Navy personnel, F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here? They come here because they know they can get illegal work on our farms and in many other businesses, no questions asked. So then they are NOT legitimate asylum seekers??? Some are, some are not. It's why we need to process them - to weed out the greedy from among the persecuted.  We do then the pc brigade and their lawyers overturn the initial assessment which are in most cases valid. We shouldn't penalise them though; they are the victims, not the criminals. Really, and the country shoppers, and people smugglers and their families and economic refugees etc, etc... The real criminals are the people smugglers and Australian businesses that employ people who do not have the legal right to work in Australia. Not the war criminals and the rest I previously mentioned? Smashing the people smugglers' business model does nothing if we do not also pursue the crooked Australian businesses with equal vigour and harsh penalties.  Do you honestly think considering most illegals end up on long term welfare that business is actually a large contributor to the problem?

Rhet-Oracle wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:24pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:22pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 12:45pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 12:19pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:58am: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:53am: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:48am: Stratos wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 7:05am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:53am: F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here? Even convicted racist Andrew Bolt said that the people saying these things were in a tiny amount of the people who come to Australia. how many terrorists do u think is an acceptable number? I'm pretty sure terrorists know how to buy plane tickets. And you are pretty sure because of the incredible large amount of data that leads you this conclusion? The fact that these people hide their identities not only raises deep suspicions about their motives but would be the ideal way for a known terrorist to come here. You are both smug and naïve - a dangerous combination. as opposed to foolish and naive how many terrorist activities have ever been attributed to anyone arriving by boat? Now how many terrorist activites have been attributed peoples who arrived by plane? I admit to being a bit surprised at your response and that of skippy.  it would appear that your naivete runs quite deep. Do you think you wait until a terrorist attack before taking any preventative measures? Do you simply assume that every person who comes by illegal means after disposing of the identity is Mother Teresa's long lost brother?  I am not saying these people are evil, but to presume they are all honest and just and genuine is ludicrously naïve. Nobody in this forum is presuming they are all innocent. You need to read posts more carefully. Ya mean you are offering a white flag?

I'll type it slowly this time, so you can keep up.

Nobody in this forum is presuming they are all innocent.

Tell me what part you don't understand, and I'll be happy to walk you through it, one word at a time.

Cheers.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:12pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:01pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 12:47pm: Rhet-Oracle wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 12:29pm: It's obvious that attempting to enter the country via the airport involves far greater checks than jumping on a people smuggling boat lost in a crowd of similar appearance particularly from the Middle Eastern countries. Except that there's the likelihood of months or years in detention when arriving by boat... But not by the light planes you claim do the same and yet provide no evidence or any media reports EVER to confirm. I made no such claim. I suggested the possibility that a light plane could enter Australian airspace undetected... Using MH370 as an example that sometimes the unimaginable happens... How often it happens (light planes entering Australian airspace undetected), I wouldn't know because they'd have been undetected.

Throwing in your light plane argument was simply a transparent attempt to move the focus when your argument is doing badly.  Seen it all before and such deflections are usually failures - as was yours.  The debate is complex enough without such nonsense.

I think it was accepted.

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:26pm:

Rhet-Oracle wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:24pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:22pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 12:45pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 12:19pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:58am: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:53am: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:48am: Stratos wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 7:05am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:53am: F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here? Even convicted racist Andrew Bolt said that the people saying these things were in a tiny amount of the people who come to Australia. how many terrorists do u think is an acceptable number? I'm pretty sure terrorists know how to buy plane tickets. And you are pretty sure because of the incredible large amount of data that leads you this conclusion? The fact that these people hide their identities not only raises deep suspicions about their motives but would be the ideal way for a known terrorist to come here. You are both smug and naïve - a dangerous combination. as opposed to foolish and naive how many terrorist activities have ever been attributed to anyone arriving by boat? Now how many terrorist activites have been attributed peoples who arrived by plane? I admit to being a bit surprised at your response and that of skippy.  it would appear that your naivete runs quite deep. Do you think you wait until a terrorist attack before taking any preventative measures? Do you simply assume that every person who comes by illegal means after disposing of the identity is Mother Teresa's long lost brother?  I am not saying these people are evil, but to presume they are all honest and just and genuine is ludicrously naïve. Nobody in this forum is presuming they are all innocent. You need to read posts more carefully. Ya mean you are offering a white flag? I'll type it slowly this time, so you can keep up. Nobody in this forum is presuming they are all innocent. Tell me what part you don't understand, and I'll be happy to walk you through it, one word at a time. Cheers.

au contraire, but you are assuming innocence otherwise why would you be shouting their right to come and live here unhindered by identification or justification? The only other explanation that fits is that you are so naïve and frankly, stupid, that you don't see the danger in allowing anyone in without our explicit permission.

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:24pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:08pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:00pm: What I am trying to do is to get a handle on why you and others on this thread simply want to shout 'everyone come to Australia!  no ID needed,  No job or skills needed'. How many are you willing to take because there is no end to the number.  So... how many do you think we should allow to come here by boat? I'm not shouting that at all... In fact if those 60000 overstayers left next week, maybe job opportunities would be available to citizens and legal permanent residents. I'm questioning the hysteria that boat arrivals generate in Australia, while entry by plane, overstaying and the issue of fake passports do not generate the same hysteria. I would be interested in your source of this 60,000 figure.  Having travelled a lot and knowing a large number of frequent travellers I also know a number who have overstayed visa - usually by accident.  They would be included in numbers like yours. But the difference is, they left. So my question is not how many visa over-stayers there are now, but how many have over-stayed and stayed permanently.  That is the actual figure to compare to boat arrivals.

It's a totally irrelevant figure.

The majority of boat arrivals are granted genuine refugee status, and therefore have a legal right to live here.

All of the visa over-stayers who stay permanently (i.e. are not caught), have no legal right to live here.

Apples and oranges.

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:30pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:26pm: Rhet-Oracle wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:24pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:22pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 12:45pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 12:19pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:58am: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:53am: longweekend58 wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 11:48am: Stratos wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 7:05am: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 6:53am: F-Australia and talk crap about 9/11! You still want those kinds of people here? Even convicted racist Andrew Bolt said that the people saying these things were in a tiny amount of the people who come to Australia. how many terrorists do u think is an acceptable number? I'm pretty sure terrorists know how to buy plane tickets. And you are pretty sure because of the incredible large amount of data that leads you this conclusion? The fact that these people hide their identities not only raises deep suspicions about their motives but would be the ideal way for a known terrorist to come here. You are both smug and naïve - a dangerous combination. as opposed to foolish and naive how many terrorist activities have ever been attributed to anyone arriving by boat? Now how many terrorist activites have been attributed peoples who arrived by plane? I admit to being a bit surprised at your response and that of skippy.  it would appear that your naivete runs quite deep. Do you think you wait until a terrorist attack before taking any preventative measures? Do you simply assume that every person who comes by illegal means after disposing of the identity is Mother Teresa's long lost brother?  I am not saying these people are evil, but to presume they are all honest and just and genuine is ludicrously naïve. Nobody in this forum is presuming they are all innocent. You need to read posts more carefully. Ya mean you are offering a white flag? I'll type it slowly this time, so you can keep up. Nobody in this forum is presuming they are all innocent. Tell me what part you don't understand, and I'll be happy to walk you through it, one word at a time. Cheers. au contraire, but you are assuming innocence otherwise why would you be shouting their right to come and live here unhindered by identification or justification? The only other explanation that fits is that you are so naïve and frankly, stupid, that you don't see the danger in allowing anyone in without our explicit permission.

It has become quite obvious to me now that English is most certainly not your first language.

If you'd like to tell me which language is, I will gladly attempt to translate the statement for you (or find someone else who can).

"Nobody in this forum is presuming they are all innocent. "

Quote:

AN Egyptian asylum seeker continued living in a low-security detention centre for eight months after authorities realised he had been convicted for terrorist offences including premeditated murder. The Egyptian man, who was the subject of an Interpol "red notice", lived at Inverbrackie with his family for about nine months before he was moved to the high-security detention centre at Villawood, in Sydney, in April.

http://www.news.com.au/national/convicted-terrorist-who-arrived-by-boat-lived-in-lowsecurity-facility-for-months/story-fncynjr2-1226653910196

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:31pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:24pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:08pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:00pm: What I am trying to do is to get a handle on why you and others on this thread simply want to shout 'everyone come to Australia!  no ID needed,  No job or skills needed'. How many are you willing to take because there is no end to the number.  So... how many do you think we should allow to come here by boat? I'm not shouting that at all... In fact if those 60000 overstayers left next week, maybe job opportunities would be available to citizens and legal permanent residents. I'm questioning the hysteria that boat arrivals generate in Australia, while entry by plane, overstaying and the issue of fake passports do not generate the same hysteria. I would be interested in your source of this 60,000 figure.  Having travelled a lot and knowing a large number of frequent travellers I also know a number who have overstayed visa - usually by accident.  They would be included in numbers like yours. But the difference is, they left. So my question is not how many visa over-stayers there are now, but how many have over-stayed and stayed permanently.  That is the actual figure to compare to boat arrivals. It's a totally irrelevant figure. The majority of boat arrivals are granted genuine refugee status, and therefore have a legal right to live here. All of the visa over-stayers who stay permanently (i.e. are not caught), have no legal right to live here. Apples and oranges.

You know this how?

Rhet-Oracle wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:36pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:31pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:24pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:08pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:00pm: What I am trying to do is to get a handle on why you and others on this thread simply want to shout 'everyone come to Australia!  no ID needed,  No job or skills needed'. How many are you willing to take because there is no end to the number.  So... how many do you think we should allow to come here by boat? I'm not shouting that at all... In fact if those 60000 overstayers left next week, maybe job opportunities would be available to citizens and legal permanent residents. I'm questioning the hysteria that boat arrivals generate in Australia, while entry by plane, overstaying and the issue of fake passports do not generate the same hysteria. I would be interested in your source of this 60,000 figure.  Having travelled a lot and knowing a large number of frequent travellers I also know a number who have overstayed visa - usually by accident.  They would be included in numbers like yours. But the difference is, they left. So my question is not how many visa over-stayers there are now, but how many have over-stayed and stayed permanently.  That is the actual figure to compare to boat arrivals. It's a totally irrelevant figure. The majority of boat arrivals are granted genuine refugee status, and therefore have a legal right to live here. All of the visa over-stayers who stay permanently (i.e. are not caught), have no legal right to live here. Apples and oranges. You know this how?

He's got ESP. Either that or just believes them automatically.

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:24pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:08pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:00pm: What I am trying to do is to get a handle on why you and others on this thread simply want to shout 'everyone come to Australia!  no ID needed,  No job or skills needed'. How many are you willing to take because there is no end to the number.  So... how many do you think we should allow to come here by boat? I'm not shouting that at all... In fact if those 60000 overstayers left next week, maybe job opportunities would be available to citizens and legal permanent residents. I'm questioning the hysteria that boat arrivals generate in Australia, while entry by plane, overstaying and the issue of fake passports do not generate the same hysteria. I would be interested in your source of this 60,000 figure.  Having travelled a lot and knowing a large number of frequent travellers I also know a number who have overstayed visa - usually by accident.  They would be included in numbers like yours. But the difference is, they left. So my question is not how many visa over-stayers there are now, but how many have over-stayed and stayed permanently.  That is the actual figure to compare to boat arrivals. I have done a lot of analytical work in my life and when comparing two sets of data you first need to convert them to comparable units or value.  I would like you to do the same.

"58,000 illegal immigrants in Australia have arrived by plane"

"MORE than half of the overstayers have called Australia home for five or more years.

"ABOUT 20,000 have lived here a decade or more.

"TWO in three have evaded immigration authorities for more than two years."

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/illegal-immigrants-arrive-by-plane/story-e6frea6u-1226200568050

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:34pm:

"Nobody in this forum is presuming they are all innocent. "

Yes, I think this strawman presumption serves the hysteria and masks its origins by deflecting from the root cause of the anachronistic fear of certain people 'invading from the north by boat'.

I don't think anybody here would agree that people should attempt a dangerous sea crossing... Or that people smugglers should profit from the trade.

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:31pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:24pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:08pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:00pm: What I am trying to do is to get a handle on why you and others on this thread simply want to shout 'everyone come to Australia!  no ID needed,  No job or skills needed'. How many are you willing to take because there is no end to the number.  So... how many do you think we should allow to come here by boat? I'm not shouting that at all... In fact if those 60000 overstayers left next week, maybe job opportunities would be available to citizens and legal permanent residents. I'm questioning the hysteria that boat arrivals generate in Australia, while entry by plane, overstaying and the issue of fake passports do not generate the same hysteria. I would be interested in your source of this 60,000 figure.  Having travelled a lot and knowing a large number of frequent travellers I also know a number who have overstayed visa - usually by accident.  They would be included in numbers like yours. But the difference is, they left. So my question is not how many visa over-stayers there are now, but how many have over-stayed and stayed permanently.  That is the actual figure to compare to boat arrivals. It's a totally irrelevant figure. The majority of boat arrivals are granted genuine refugee status, and therefore have a legal right to live here. All of the visa over-stayers who stay permanently (i.e. are not caught), have no legal right to live here. Apples and oranges.

It is a very relevant figure.  If you are going to quote visa-overstayers then you need to classify them in the same dimensional category of the other bit of date (boat arrival) you seek to compare them to.

And the only one who seems to think that arriving by boat grants a legal right to live here is you and few of your fellow-travellers.

I changed my vote from Labor to Liberal on the basis of Howards 'we retain the right to choose who comes to stay in this country'. I still believe in the sovereignty of this and any other nation. I have no idea what you believe in.

Rhet-Oracle wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:36pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:31pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:24pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:08pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:00pm: What I am trying to do is to get a handle on why you and others on this thread simply want to shout 'everyone come to Australia!  no ID needed,  No job or skills needed'. How many are you willing to take because there is no end to the number.  So... how many do you think we should allow to come here by boat? I'm not shouting that at all... In fact if those 60000 overstayers left next week, maybe job opportunities would be available to citizens and legal permanent residents. I'm questioning the hysteria that boat arrivals generate in Australia, while entry by plane, overstaying and the issue of fake passports do not generate the same hysteria. I would be interested in your source of this 60,000 figure.  Having travelled a lot and knowing a large number of frequent travellers I also know a number who have overstayed visa - usually by accident.  They would be included in numbers like yours. But the difference is, they left. So my question is not how many visa over-stayers there are now, but how many have over-stayed and stayed permanently.  That is the actual figure to compare to boat arrivals. It's a totally irrelevant figure. The majority of boat arrivals are granted genuine refugee status, and therefore have a legal right to live here. All of the visa over-stayers who stay permanently (i.e. are not caught), have no legal right to live here. Apples and oranges. You know this how?

Simple: I know how to read:

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/statistics/asylum/_files/asylum-stats-march-quarter-2013.pdf

Grendel wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:35pm:

Quote: AN Egyptian asylum seeker continued living in a low-security detention centre for eight months after authorities realised he had been convicted for terrorist offences including premeditated murder. The Egyptian man, who was the subject of an Interpol "red notice", lived at Inverbrackie with his family for about nine months before he was moved to the high-security detention centre at Villawood, in Sydney, in April. http://www.news.com.au/national/convicted-terrorist-who-arrived-by-boat-lived-in-lowsecurity-facility-for-months/story-fncynjr2-1226653910196

Thanks for finding it. And I can hear the gasps of 'oops I was wrong' echoing around the land.

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:39pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:24pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:08pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:00pm: What I am trying to do is to get a handle on why you and others on this thread simply want to shout 'everyone come to Australia!  no ID needed,  No job or skills needed'. How many are you willing to take because there is no end to the number.  So... how many do you think we should allow to come here by boat? I'm not shouting that at all... In fact if those 60000 overstayers left next week, maybe job opportunities would be available to citizens and legal permanent residents. I'm questioning the hysteria that boat arrivals generate in Australia, while entry by plane, overstaying and the issue of fake passports do not generate the same hysteria. I would be interested in your source of this 60,000 figure.  Having travelled a lot and knowing a large number of frequent travellers I also know a number who have overstayed visa - usually by accident.  They would be included in numbers like yours. But the difference is, they left. So my question is not how many visa over-stayers there are now, but how many have over-stayed and stayed permanently.  That is the actual figure to compare to boat arrivals. I have done a lot of analytical work in my life and when comparing two sets of data you first need to convert them to comparable units or value.  I would like you to do the same. "58,000 illegal immigrants in Australia have arrived by plane" "MORE than half of the overstayers have called Australia home for five or more years. "ABOUT 20,000 have lived here a decade or more. "TWO in three have evaded immigration authorities for more than two years." http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/illegal-immigrants-arrive-by-plane/story-e6frea6u-1226200568050

so, despite all your bluster you DID accept my premise that the figure need modification.

So let's recap.  over a period spanning 50 years there have been 29,000 visa overstayers of 5 years or longer. And over the past 6 years there have been 50,000 boat arrivals.

I think I see where the effort needs to be directed so why don't you?

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:45pm:

And the only one who seems to think that arriving by boat grants a legal right to live here is you and few of your fellow-travellers.

You really should read the posts on this forum more carefully.

Nobody here, including me, has said that merely "arriving by boat grants a legal right to live here".

However, arriving by boat and saying "I claim asylum" does give someone the legal right to apply for refugee status.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:34pm: "Nobody in this forum is presuming they are all innocent. " Yes, I think this strawman presumption serves the hysteria and masks its origins by deflecting from the root cause of the anachronistic fear of certain people 'invading from the north by boat'. I don't think anybody here would agree that people should attempt a dangerous sea crossing... Or that people smugglers should profit from the trade.

So since you don't think they are all innocent why are you so disinterested in controlling it? I find those two positions at odds with each other.

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:45pm:

And the only one who seems to think that arriving by boat grants a legal right to live here is you and few of your fellow-travellers

you are aware that australia signed a UN convention agreeing that asylum seekers had a right to live here don't you?

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:50pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:45pm: And the only one who seems to think that arriving by boat grants a legal right to live here is you and few of your fellow-travellers. You really should read the posts on this forum more carefully. Nobody here, including me, has said that merely "arriving by boat grants a legal right to live here". However, arriving by boat and saying "I claim asylum" does give someone the legal right to apply for refugee status.

That distinction clearly means a great deal to you but I doubt it means anything to anyone else since 100% of these boat people claim asylum.  It is in the end, just a phrase.

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:51pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:45pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:34pm: "Nobody in this forum is presuming they are all innocent. " Yes, I think this strawman presumption serves the hysteria and masks its origins by deflecting from the root cause of the anachronistic fear of certain people 'invading from the north by boat'. I don't think anybody here would agree that people should attempt a dangerous sea crossing... Or that people smugglers should profit from the trade. So since you don't think they are all innocent why are you so disinterested in controlling it? I find those two positions at odds with each other.

Where did he demonstrate a disinterest in controlling it?

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:52pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:50pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:45pm: And the only one who seems to think that arriving by boat grants a legal right to live here is you and few of your fellow-travellers. You really should read the posts on this forum more carefully. Nobody here, including me, has said that merely "arriving by boat grants a legal right to live here". However, arriving by boat and saying "I claim asylum" does give someone the legal right to apply for refugee status. That distinction clearly means a great deal to you but I doubt it means anything to anyone else since 100% of these boat people claim asylum.  It is in the end, just a phrase.

...which invokes international obligations.

Aussie wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:53pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:51pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:45pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:34pm: "Nobody in this forum is presuming they are all innocent. " Yes, I think this strawman presumption serves the hysteria and masks its origins by deflecting from the root cause of the anachronistic fear of certain people 'invading from the north by boat'. I don't think anybody here would agree that people should attempt a dangerous sea crossing... Or that people smugglers should profit from the trade. So since you don't think they are all innocent why are you so disinterested in controlling it? I find those two positions at odds with each other. Where did he demonstrate a disinterest in controlling it?

its typical B&B debating ... as soon as he feels he is losing an argument he tries to take it in a different direction ... it doesn't have to make sense, not even to him

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:51pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:45pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:34pm: "Nobody in this forum is presuming they are all innocent. " Yes, I think this strawman presumption serves the hysteria and masks its origins by deflecting from the root cause of the anachronistic fear of certain people 'invading from the north by boat'. I don't think anybody here would agree that people should attempt a dangerous sea crossing... Or that people smugglers should profit from the trade. So since you don't think they are all innocent why are you so disinterested in controlling it? I find those two positions at odds with each other.

I'm not disinterested in controlling it.

I am intrigued by the hysteria that boat arrivals engenders in Australians, which does not seem to be replicated by any other form of arrival or ID irregularity.

Rhet-Oracle wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:36pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:31pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:24pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:08pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:00pm: What I am trying to do is to get a handle on why you and others on this thread simply want to shout 'everyone come to Australia!  no ID needed,  No job or skills needed'. How many are you willing to take because there is no end to the number.  So... how many do you think we should allow to come here by boat? I'm not shouting that at all... In fact if those 60000 overstayers left next week, maybe job opportunities would be available to citizens and legal permanent residents. I'm questioning the hysteria that boat arrivals generate in Australia, while entry by plane, overstaying and the issue of fake passports do not generate the same hysteria. I would be interested in your source of this 60,000 figure.  Having travelled a lot and knowing a large number of frequent travellers I also know a number who have overstayed visa - usually by accident.  They would be included in numbers like yours. But the difference is, they left. So my question is not how many visa over-stayers there are now, but how many have over-stayed and stayed permanently.  That is the actual figure to compare to boat arrivals. It's a totally irrelevant figure. The majority of boat arrivals are granted genuine refugee status, and therefore have a legal right to live here. All of the visa over-stayers who stay permanently (i.e. are not caught), have no legal right to live here. Apples and oranges. You know this how?

By checking facts and statistics.

"BOAT PEOPLE 'MORE LIKELY TO BE GENUINE REFUGEES"

"A report by the Lowy Institute says boat people are more likely to be recognised as refugees than asylum seekers who arrive by air. It says: "Arguably Australia is worrying about the wrong asylum seekers. Whereas the majority of those arriving by boat are refugees, the majority of those arriving by air are not".

"Past figures show that between 70 and 97 per cent of asylum seekers arriving by boat at different times were found to be genuine refugees, and were granted protection either in Australia or in another country.

"According to figures by the Refugee Council of Australia, in 1998-99 approximately 97 per cent of Iraqi and 92 per cent of Afghan applicants - the majority of which arrived by boat - were granted refugee status and given permanent visas.

"More recent figures show that of the 1,254 claims assessed on Christmas Island between July 2009 and January 2010, only 110 people were found not to be genuine refugees."

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2011/06/17/factbox-numbers-behind-asylum-debate

Checking facts and figures is simple, when you know how.

Give it a try sometime: you might actually enjoy it.

John Smith wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:56pm:

its typical B&B debating ... as soon as he feels he is losing an argument he tries to take it in a different direction ... it doesn't have to make sense, not even to him

As I said, I am intrigued by the hysteria that boat arrivals engenders in Australians, which does not seem to be replicated by any other form of arrival or ID irregularity.

John Smith wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:56pm:

Aussie wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:53pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:51pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:45pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:34pm: "Nobody in this forum is presuming they are all innocent. " Yes, I think this strawman presumption serves the hysteria and masks its origins by deflecting from the root cause of the anachronistic fear of certain people 'invading from the north by boat'. I don't think anybody here would agree that people should attempt a dangerous sea crossing... Or that people smugglers should profit from the trade. So since you don't think they are all innocent why are you so disinterested in controlling it? I find those two positions at odds with each other. Where did he demonstrate a disinterest in controlling it? its typical B&B debating ... as soon as he feels he is losing an argument he tries to take it in a different direction ... it doesn't have to make sense, not even to him

I am starting to realise that you don't easily follow arguments, especially complex ones.

The issu of boat people is complex but I am constantly surprised by people who demand we let them in, all of them, all the time.  But when I ask how many we should let in they go silent, just as they have now.  Because even the desperately uninformed know that there are tens of millions of people who would happily leave their wretched lands and come here.

So how many people?  Got any clues?

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:59pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:56pm: its typical B&B debating ... as soon as he feels he is losing an argument he tries to take it in a different direction ... it doesn't have to make sense, not even to him As I said, I am intrigued by the hysteria that boat arrivals engenders in Australians, which does not seem to be replicated by any other form of arrival or ID irregularity.

much ado about nothing ....  some people try to make themselves feel better by vilyfying others .... without it they have nothing

Aussie wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:53pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:51pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:45pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:34pm: "Nobody in this forum is presuming they are all innocent. " Yes, I think this strawman presumption serves the hysteria and masks its origins by deflecting from the root cause of the anachronistic fear of certain people 'invading from the north by boat'. I don't think anybody here would agree that people should attempt a dangerous sea crossing... Or that people smugglers should profit from the trade. So since you don't think they are all innocent why are you so disinterested in controlling it? I find those two positions at odds with each other. Where did he demonstrate a disinterest in controlling it?

He didn't.  But it is all that the racists have.

Because they are racist, but don't want to admit it - they make up stupid strawman arguments that those who wish to see Australia fulfil it's legal responsibilities somehow want "open borders".

This is why the the racists are happy to have the truth about Manus and "turn backs" hidden from them.  Then they can go on happily being racist while still pretending that they are concerned about asylum seekers drowning.

THe racists said they wanted to 'stop the boats'.  The boats have not stopped.  they are still coming.  People are still dying.  But they are not reaching Australia (supposedly - who knows really). And now the racists celebrate That is all the racists care about.  That is why they are racists.

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:52pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:50pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:45pm: And the only one who seems to think that arriving by boat grants a legal right to live here is you and few of your fellow-travellers. You really should read the posts on this forum more carefully. Nobody here, including me, has said that merely "arriving by boat grants a legal right to live here". However, arriving by boat and saying "I claim asylum" does give someone the legal right to apply for refugee status. That distinction clearly means a great deal to you but I doubt it means anything to anyone else since 100% of these boat people claim asylum.  It is in the end, just a phrase.

Yes, that's correct: 100% of boat people claim asylum.

That makes them asylum seekers.

However, it does not make them refugees.

I would suggest that you learn the difference between those two terms (at the very least) before you continue with any discussion on this subject matter.

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 2:00pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:56pm: Aussie wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:53pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:51pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:45pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:34pm: "Nobody in this forum is presuming they are all innocent. " Yes, I think this strawman presumption serves the hysteria and masks its origins by deflecting from the root cause of the anachronistic fear of certain people 'invading from the north by boat'. I don't think anybody here would agree that people should attempt a dangerous sea crossing... Or that people smugglers should profit from the trade. So since you don't think they are all innocent why are you so disinterested in controlling it? I find those two positions at odds with each other. Where did he demonstrate a disinterest in controlling it? its typical B&B debating ... as soon as he feels he is losing an argument he tries to take it in a different direction ... it doesn't have to make sense, not even to him I am starting to realise that you don't easily follow arguments, especially complex ones. The issu of boat people is complex but I am constantly surprised by people who demand we let them in, all of them, all the time.  But when I ask how many we should let in they go silent, just as they have now.  Because even the desperately uninformed know that there are tens of millions of people who would happily leave their wretched lands and come here. So how many people?  Got any clues?

just as i realised you suffer from a lack of basic comprehension
'
show me one person who has said we let them ALL in?

besides, I gave you an answer earlier ... you just chose to ignore it

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 2:00pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:56pm: Aussie wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:53pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:51pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:45pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:34pm: "Nobody in this forum is presuming they are all innocent. " Yes, I think this strawman presumption serves the hysteria and masks its origins by deflecting from the root cause of the anachronistic fear of certain people 'invading from the north by boat'. I don't think anybody here would agree that people should attempt a dangerous sea crossing... Or that people smugglers should profit from the trade. So since you don't think they are all innocent why are you so disinterested in controlling it? I find those two positions at odds with each other. Where did he demonstrate a disinterest in controlling it? its typical B&B debating ... as soon as he feels he is losing an argument he tries to take it in a different direction ... it doesn't have to make sense, not even to him I am starting to realise that you don't easily follow arguments, especially complex ones. The issu of boat people is complex but I am constantly surprised by people who demand we let them in, all of them, all the time.  But when I ask how many we should let in they go silent, just as they have now.  Because even the desperately uninformed know that there are tens of millions of people who would happily leave their wretched lands and come here. So how many people?  Got any clues?

Don't tell lies.

Who has ever demanded "we let them in, all of them, all the time."

People are demanding that asylums seekers be treated with respect and not abused or locked up indefinitely


They have committed no crime.  They should have their claims assessed - and if they are not refugees - then deported.  What is difficult about that?  After all - it is our legal obligation.

John Smith wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 2:02pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:59pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:56pm: its typical B&B debating ... as soon as he feels he is losing an argument he tries to take it in a different direction ... it doesn't have to make sense, not even to him As I said, I am intrigued by the hysteria that boat arrivals engenders in Australians, which does not seem to be replicated by any other form of arrival or ID irregularity. much ado about nothing ....  some people try to make themselves feel better by vilyfying others .... without it they have nothing

My feeling is that this hysteria is the anachronistic vestige of the "Yellow Peril" fears.

So still no numbers about how many we should let in?

hmm?

NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 2:06pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 2:02pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:59pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:56pm: its typical B&B debating ... as soon as he feels he is losing an argument he tries to take it in a different direction ... it doesn't have to make sense, not even to him As I said, I am intrigued by the hysteria that boat arrivals engenders in Australians, which does not seem to be replicated by any other form of arrival or ID irregularity. much ado about nothing ....  some people try to make themselves feel better by vilyfying others .... without it they have nothing My feeling is that this hysteria is the anachronistic vestige of the "Yellow Peril" fears.

I suspect you might be onto something there .

Quote:

The issu of boat people is complex but I am constantly surprised by people who demand we let them in, all of them, all the time.

Who is making those several demands, or are you just making all that up?

rabbitoh08 wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 2:05pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 2:00pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:56pm: Aussie wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:53pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:51pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:45pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:34pm: "Nobody in this forum is presuming they are all innocent. " Yes, I think this strawman presumption serves the hysteria and masks its origins by deflecting from the root cause of the anachronistic fear of certain people 'invading from the north by boat'. I don't think anybody here would agree that people should attempt a dangerous sea crossing... Or that people smugglers should profit from the trade. So since you don't think they are all innocent why are you so disinterested in controlling it? I find those two positions at odds with each other. Where did he demonstrate a disinterest in controlling it? its typical B&B debating ... as soon as he feels he is losing an argument he tries to take it in a different direction ... it doesn't have to make sense, not even to him I am starting to realise that you don't easily follow arguments, especially complex ones. The issu of boat people is complex but I am constantly surprised by people who demand we let them in, all of them, all the time.  But when I ask how many we should let in they go silent, just as they have now.  Because even the desperately uninformed know that there are tens of millions of people who would happily leave their wretched lands and come here. So how many people?  Got any clues? Don't tell lies. Who has ever demanded "we let them in, all of them, all the time." People are demanding that asylums seekers be treated with respect and not abused or locked up indefinitely They have committed no crime.  They should have their claims assessed - and if they are not refugees - then deported.  What is difficult about that?  After all - it is our legal obligation.

Deported to where?  no one will take them back.

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 2:07pm:

So still no numbers about how many we should let in?hmm?

John Smith wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 2:03pm:

besides, I gave you an answer earlier ... you just chose to ignore it

John Smith wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 1:08pm:

at the moment the limit is set to just over 13 000 a year, but I think that should go up to at the very least 20 000.

rabbitoh08 wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 2:05pm:

People are demanding that asylums seekers be treated with respect and not abused or locked up indefinitely They have committed no crime.  They should have their claims assessed - and if they are not refugees - then deported.

Yep, 100% agree.

I'm not aware of anyone on here who's asking more than that.

John Smith wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 2:03pm:

just as i realised you suffer from a lack of basic comprehension ' show me one person who has said we let them ALL in? besides, I gave you an answer earlier ... you just chose to ignore it

Yes, these strawman arguments are bemusing and reinforce my suspicion of their true purpose.

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 2:09pm:

rabbitoh08 wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 2:05pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 2:00pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:56pm: Aussie wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:53pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:51pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:45pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:34pm: "Nobody in this forum is presuming they are all innocent. " Yes, I think this strawman presumption serves the hysteria and masks its origins by deflecting from the root cause of the anachronistic fear of certain people 'invading from the north by boat'. I don't think anybody here would agree that people should attempt a dangerous sea crossing... Or that people smugglers should profit from the trade. So since you don't think they are all innocent why are you so disinterested in controlling it? I find those two positions at odds with each other. Where did he demonstrate a disinterest in controlling it? its typical B&B debating ... as soon as he feels he is losing an argument he tries to take it in a different direction ... it doesn't have to make sense, not even to him I am starting to realise that you don't easily follow arguments, especially complex ones. The issu of boat people is complex but I am constantly surprised by people who demand we let them in, all of them, all the time.  But when I ask how many we should let in they go silent, just as they have now.  Because even the desperately uninformed know that there are tens of millions of people who would happily leave their wretched lands and come here. So how many people?  Got any clues? Don't tell lies. Who has ever demanded "we let them in, all of them, all the time." People are demanding that asylums seekers be treated with respect and not abused or locked up indefinitely They have committed no crime.  They should have their claims assessed - and if they are not refugees - then deported.  What is difficult about that?  After all - it is our legal obligation. Deported to where?  no one will take them back.

First explain why you told a lie.

Who has ever demanded "we let them in, all of them, all the time."

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 2:09pm:

rabbitoh08 wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 2:05pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 2:00pm: John Smith wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:56pm: Aussie wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:53pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:51pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:45pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 1:34pm: "Nobody in this forum is presuming they are all innocent. " Yes, I think this strawman presumption serves the hysteria and masks its origins by deflecting from the root cause of the anachronistic fear of certain people 'invading from the north by boat'. I don't think anybody here would agree that people should attempt a dangerous sea crossing... Or that people smugglers should profit from the trade. So since you don't think they are all innocent why are you so disinterested in controlling it? I find those two positions at odds with each other. Where did he demonstrate a disinterest in controlling it? its typical B&B debating ... as soon as he feels he is losing an argument he tries to take it in a different direction ... it doesn't have to make sense, not even to him I am starting to realise that you don't easily follow arguments, especially complex ones. The issu of boat people is complex but I am constantly surprised by people who demand we let them in, all of them, all the time.  But when I ask how many we should let in they go silent, just as they have now.  Because even the desperately uninformed know that there are tens of millions of people who would happily leave their wretched lands and come here. So how many people?  Got any clues? Don't tell lies. Who has ever demanded "we let them in, all of them, all the time." People are demanding that asylums seekers be treated with respect and not abused or locked up indefinitely They have committed no crime.  They should have their claims assessed - and if they are not refugees - then deported.  What is difficult about that?  After all - it is our legal obligation. Deported to where?  no one will take them back.

to assess their claim for asylum you need to either prove or disprove that they are genuine asylum seekers ... if you can do that you can prove their country of origin ... once you can prove it the country has no choice but to take them back

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 2:07pm:

So still no numbers about how many we should let in? hmm?

I don't have an arbitrary number in mind?

Do you?

Without an arbitrary number, does that mean we should stop processing all asylum seeker claims?

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 2:07pm:

So still no numbers about how many we should let in? hmm?

Even the Parties cannot agree on that number, so how do you expect Members here to offer a sensible response other than ~ whatever number reflects that we are pulling our weight internationally.

Aussie wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 2:14pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 2:07pm: So still no numbers about how many we should let in? hmm? Even the Parties cannot agree on that number, so how do you expect Members here to offer a sensible response other than ~ whatever number reflects that we are pulling our weight internationally.

As I thought.  This has nothing whatsoever to do with boat people or refugees or anything like it. It is an Abbott policy therefore you are duty bound by your mindless allegiances to oppose it.

You have no numbers because you have no plan. You have no numbers because you have not thought this out in any real way.

I actually support increasing our refugee numbers. I however oppose boat people. I have an implicit mistrust of people who come illegally and without ID and wonder exactly whey you do not. We already have one confirmed example of a terrorist arriving this way so why are you so intent on more?

Increase the numbers of refuges to 30,000pa. Send planes to pick them up. But have ID and background checks first.

You can actually be compassionate and not stupid at the same time you know.

B&B contiually goes on about the lack of a number as if it means something, and yet continues to ignore the number i gave him, twice  ... are you worried your arguments won't stand up B&B?

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 2:20pm:

I actually support increasing our refugee numbers. I however oppose boat people. I have an implicit mistrust of people who come illegally and without ID and wonder exactly whey you do not.

The majority of boat people are granted genuine refugee status.

Why do you choose to ignore this fact?

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 2:20pm:

Increase the numbers of refuges to 30,000pa. Send planes to pick them up. But have ID and background checks first.

A plane to pick them up?? Why not a boat??!!  (and this time, please try to see the ironic humour before your right brain shuts down!!).

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 2:20pm:

Aussie wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 2:14pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30th, 2014 at 2:07pm: So still no numbers about how many we should let in? hmm? Even the Parties cannot agree on that number, so how do you expect Members here to offer a sensible response other than ~ whatever number reflects that we are pulling our weight internationally. As I thought.  This has nothing whatsoever to do with boat people or refugees or anything like it. It is an Abbott policy therefore you are duty bound by your mindless allegiances to oppose it. You have no numbers because you have no plan. You have no numbers because you have not thought this out in any real way. I actually support increasing our refugee numbers. I however oppose boat people. I have an implicit mistrust of people who come illegally and without ID and wonder exactly whey you do not. We already have one confirmed example of a terrorist arriving this way so why are you so intent on more? Increase the numbers of refuges to 30,000pa. Send planes to pick them up. But have ID and background checks first. You can actually be compassionate and not stupid at the same time you know.

Abbott's Operation Sovereign Borders 'Policy' is illegal, and go read my Posts of the past about that, because I'm not about to go over it all again just for you.

Yeas, I agree.  Plane/safe boat them in, and plane/safe boat the false claimants out.  That (planes) is PUP Policy, by the way.

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 30^th, 2014 at 2:20pm:

We already have one confirmed example of a terrorist arriving this way so why are you so intent on more?

One?  Really?  Oh dear.

Do you know if any have ever entered a country by plane, using passports and visas?

I would think not, wouldn't you?

I mean, if they had done, we would have to stop the planes.  Wouldn't we?  Hmmm?


http://patdollard.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/fbi_hijackers.jpg