A construction union will be fined more than $1 million for illegal blockades at building sites which choked inner Melbourne.

The Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union (CFMEU) is set to be fined $1.25 million and ordered to pay costs for ignoring court orders by blockading the sites.

The union and its members defied a court order to block Grocon workers entering the Emporium site in August 2012 for four days, blocking early morning traffic in the part of the CBD.

On one day some unionists clashed with riot police as up to 1000 people gathered outside the site.

They also prevented vehicle access at a site in Footscray in September 2012 and another in Collins Street in Melbourne in April 2013.

Victorian Supreme Court Justice Anthony Cavanough said on Monday he intended to impose the fines and will return at 4pm to formalise his orders.

http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=962827&cid=BP_RSS_TOPSTORIES_1_Unionfined1moverVicblockade_310314

When will you reign in these militant unions, Electricity Bill? When?

It seems unjust that the 'rank and file' of the unions effectively pay these fines.

Only the union bosses that order a contravention of the laws should be held personally responsible.

When will you have a royal commission these shonky companies Tony


Quote:

SIX months after a tragic wall collapse killed three people, there are still no answers on the tragedy. Four separate organisations have failed to return public reports on the March 28 incident. WorkSafe, Grocon, Victoria Police and the Coroner’s office declined to release any details of their investigations this week. But Grocon revealed that it was planning to build a memorial for the victims - Bridget and Alexander Jones and Dr Marie-Faith Fiawoo - on the vacant Swanston St site, which is to become an apartment and retail complex. WorkSafe spokesman Peter Flaherty was unable to give a deadline for the agency’s report. “This comprehensive investigation is ongoing, but given the complexity of the task, it remains in its relatively early stages and will take some time to complete,” he said. The 19-year-old Jones twins and Dr Fiawoo, 33, were walking along Swanston St when a brick wall, which had a wooden hoarding bolted to its facade, collapsed in 102km/h wind. http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/international/sites/default/files/imagecache/ra_article_feature/images/2013/04/2/4605304-3x2-700x467_3.jpg http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/4602040-1x1-340x340.jpg http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/tokpisin/sites/default/files/imagecache/ra_article_feature/images/2013/03/31/4602592-3x2-700x467_12.jpg Ms Jones, who had been sheltered by her brother, was rescued but later died in hospital. Mr Jones and Dr Fiawoo, a French national who had been working at Monash University, died at the scene. Investigations were expected to focus on the condition of the red brick wall and why a wooden hoarding was bolted to its facade. The Herald Sun revealed in April that there were significant cracks in the base of the brick wall at least four months before it fell. The City of Melbourne also confirmed that Grocon did not have a permit to attach a wooden hoarding to the wall. The hoarding, which was higher than the brick wall, may have increased the load on the wall beyond its design and acted as a sail during its collapse. Grocon spokesman Mike Zorbas said it was too early to comment on its investigations. “We have been working with the relevant authorities in relation to their formal inquiries into the matter. This has included the Coroner, the police and WorkSafe,” he said. “We have begun to make arrangements for an appropriate memorial on the site.” Victoria Police confirmed its investigations were continuing. Criminal charges could be laid over the incident, which could delay the probes further. Sheree Argento, a spokeswoman for the Coroner’s Court of Victoria, said Judge Ian Gray would seek an update from the investigating police member before fixing the next hearing date. “As indicated in the mention hearing held earlier this year, His Honour is concerned about controlling any unnecessary delays in relation to this investigation and will seek to proceed with this matter as soon as practicable,” she said. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/still-no-answers-on-swanston-st-wall-collapse/story-fni0fit3-1226722337273

3 innocent people walking along a street DEAD
Surely this requires a Royal Commission Tony??

But no we'll fine the Union for bringing to light safety concerns & then get rid of those concerns by simply calling the regulations RED TAPE & scrapping them.

Think how much profits will increase if we don't have safe work places or nosey people talking about death & injury at work.

Given up your penalties yet Teaspoon?

Comrade Imcrookonit should have been onto this one before now.... ;D

I suppose the "Right click" doesn't work on his puter..... :D   ;D  :D

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 12:34pm:

When will you reign in these militant unions, Electricity Bill? When?

Hopefully never.

They are more necessary now than at any time since WW2.

Kat wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 1:18pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 12:34pm: When will you reign in these militant unions, Electricity Bill? When? Hopefully never. They are more necessary now than at any time since WW2.

For what? Paying fines? A novel way of paying off Labor's debt!

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 12:34pm:

When will you reign in these militant unions, Electricity Bill? When?

ahhmmm, not sure if you noticed .. and i do understand the confusion, but Abbott is PM not Shorten

;D ;D ;D

C'mon Teaspoon, surely you agree these innocents death should be subject to the same IF NOT MORE scrutiny as the insulation ones.
More because these poor souls weren't being paid they were just walking down a street.

Wind has been blamed, 102klm p/hour hardly cyclone strength in fact just a strong gust would be an apt description.

Who approved the materials?
Who approved the contractor?
Who signed off once completed?
Who chose the tender & on what basis?
Who gave the OK for illegal signage?

Never mind all that though your here to crow that the union who represents the workers within this dangerous & obviously sub standard work sight had the gale to point out these faults & now has been fined.

The  Holy Court says t' turn yer cashflow into fines... I says turn yer cashflow into armour to overturn the Holy Court.

What a complete pack of nonsense that a court will intervene to stop a legitimate refusal to work.

Could anyone cite the genuine harm a blockade did - other than to the pockets of the company that refused to negotiate or take positive action?  When the 'courts' view themselves as part of an entrenched body politic based exclusively on the 'better classes' - it is time for someone to say this is indeed a class war.

Tell 'em to get nicked!

Historical antecedents:-

Cruiser, by Mike Carlton (HMAS Perth) - page 101, (published) William Heinemann, 2011.

"The thrill of going ashore (at Kingston, Jamaica, in 1939) for the first time was dampened a little by the end result of a public hanging.  Three black men hung from a gibbet behind the warehouse.  They carried a placard condemning them as revolutionaries.  We found out they had been the ringleaders of a tram strike three weeks before."


Pirates Of The Current Eon

Dead Unionists Hanging

.. coming soon to a live theatre near you!

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 2:10pm:

C'mon Teaspoon, surely you agree these innocents death should be subject to the same IF NOT MORE scrutiny as the insulation ones. More because these poor souls weren't being paid they were just walking down a street. Wind has been blamed, 102klm p/hour hardly cyclone strength in fact just a strong gust would be an apt description. Who approved the materials? Who approved the contractor? Who signed off once completed? Who chose the tender & on what basis? Who gave the OK for illegal signage? Never mind all that though your here to crow that the union who represents the workers within this dangerous & obviously sub standard work sight had the gale to point out these faults & now has been fined.

so why did the unions allow them to work on a dangerous site...

a gust of wind........is that written in any contract do you know???...

most construction work is undertaken at local govt level...

what about the child killed by the falling tree at school...will we have a Rayal into that as well??..

like who planted the tree .... right there of all places...... ::) ::)

if you want a royal into every accident...the country will come to a stand still...

to my knowledge the families of those killed by the wall...know that gale force wind caused the wall to fall....in hindsight should it have been there??????....who can really answer that....its like the tree... a tragic accident and to make political points out of something no one could really foresee is pretty crap.

if a family member wanted more answers I am sure an investigation would or could take place........if it already hasnt.

as it did with the pinkbatts.. but really didnt come up with the real answers......who really was responsible..and could!

at least 3 deaths have been prevented????....

if there were 4 walls all the same and one was blown down killing 3 people... and the other walls remained until they were blown down killing more people....I would definitely agree a Royal is needed..

It seems the only commissions our 'governments' are interested in are either the ryall (thet thar be Ay-rab coinage) commissions or the Dorothy Dixers...

cods wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 3:01pm:

so why did the unions allow them to work on a dangerous site...

So now you support union boycotts & lock outs???


cods wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 3:01pm:

a gust of wind........is that written in any contract do you know???...

What does that mean????
Are you now saying once wind reaches a certain speed work should be stopped?


cods wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 3:01pm:

most construction work is undertaken at local govt level...

Most workplace safety regulations are State government level, hasn't stopped the PBRC, in fact you've been the biggest cheerleader, why all of a sudden the respect for chain of command???


cods wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 3:01pm:

what about the child killed by the falling tree at school...will we have a Rayal into that as well??..

Why not?
You seem to need to blame someone for everything, who's knows maybe the tree was a gift from the Labor party.


cods wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 3:01pm:

to my knowledge the families of those killed by the wall...know that gale force wind caused the wall to fall....in hindsight should it have been there??????....who can really answer that....its like the tree... a tragic accident and to make political points out of something no one could really foresee is pretty crap.

With not even the slightest blush :o


cods wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 3:01pm:

if a family member wanted more answers I am sure an investigation would or could take place........if it already hasnt.

6 inquiries into PB aren't enough, you must keep inquiring until you get the answers you want.


cods wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 3:01pm:

as it did with the pinkbatts.. but really didnt come up with the real answers......who really was responsible..and could!

Yes they did just not the answers Tony can accept.


cods wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 3:01pm:

at least 3 deaths have been prevented????....

How? & how does one arrive at that number?


cods wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 3:01pm:

if there were 4 walls all the same and one was blown down killing 3 people... and the other walls remained until they were blown down killing more people....I would definitely agree a Royal is needed..

So its ok to kill 3 people in 1 go as long as you stop there?
What if the wall killed 25, fell on a school bus stop at 8.30am, would it be OK because it only happened once?

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 12:34pm:

When will you reign in these militant unions, Electricity Bill? When?

Once Abbott reins in the militant corporations maybe?

Frances wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 4:08pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 12:34pm: When will you reign in these militant unions, Electricity Bill? When? Once Abbott reins in the militant corporations maybe?

;D ;D ;D ;D ... slow down girl ..

you're on fire today.  ;D ;D ;D

John Smith wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 2:00pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 12:34pm: When will you reign in these militant unions, Electricity Bill? When? ahhmmm, not sure if you noticed .. and i do understand the confusion, but Abbott is PM not Shorten ;D ;D ;D

Abbott has never been boss of a union, Electricity Bill has. Duh!  ::)

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 4:27pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 2:00pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 12:34pm: When will you reign in these militant unions, Electricity Bill? When? ahhmmm, not sure if you noticed .. and i do understand the confusion, but Abbott is PM not Shorten ;D ;D ;D Abbott has never been boss of a union, Electricity Bill has. Duh!  ::)

and you used to run a subway  ... does that mean that you now have the ability to affect Subways policies?

Frances wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 4:08pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 12:34pm: When will you reign in these militant unions, Electricity Bill? When? Once Abbott reins in the militant corporations maybe?

Corporations are subject to normal business laws/governance. Unions operate with no such oversight, except (laughably) their own). Hence the incidences of corruption such as Thomson and Williamson...

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 4:29pm:

Frances wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 4:08pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 12:34pm: When will you reign in these militant unions, Electricity Bill? When? Once Abbott reins in the militant corporations maybe? Corporations are subject to normal business laws/governance. Unions operate with no such oversight, except (laughably) their own). Hence the incidences of corruption such as Thomson and Williamson...

Unions aren't subject to business laws and have no oversight? Pray tell !!

So under what laws were thommo and Williamson charged? Chinas?

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 12:34pm:

When will you reign in these militant unions, Electricity Bill? When?

Just to bring you up to SPEED - Bill Shorten has not held any office in the trade union movement in almost SEVEN YEARS

- and as Opposition Leader - he is in no position to draw up and pass any legislation

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 4:29pm:

Unions operate with no such oversight, except (laughably) their own).

What about the The Fair Work (Registered Organisations) Act 2009?

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 4:03pm:

cods wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 3:01pm: so why did the unions allow them to work on a dangerous site... So now you support union boycotts & lock outs??? WHERE DID I SAY THAT? cods wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 3:01pm: a gust of wind........is that written in any contract do you know???... What does that mean???? Are you now saying once wind reaches a certain speed work should be stopped? YOU ARE THE ONE THAT WANTS A 'ROYAL INTO THE WALL THAT WIND BLEW DOWN NOT ME? cods wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 3:01pm: most construction work is undertaken at local govt level... Most workplace safety regulations are State government level, hasn't stopped the PBRC, in fact you've been the biggest cheerleader, why all of a sudden the respect for chain of command??? I WAS TRYING TO FOLLOW YOU LOGIC ON YOUR POST.. cods wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 3:01pm: what about the child killed by the falling tree at school...will we have a Rayal into that as well??.. Why not? You seem to need to blame someone for everything, who's knows maybe the tree was a gift from the Labor party. ME BLAMING EVERYONE..... THATS A BIT RICH.... GO READ YOUR POST WHERE YOU LIST JUST ABOUT EVERYONE THAT SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED REGARDING THE ...WALL. cods wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 3:01pm: to my knowledge the families of those killed by the wall...know that gale force wind caused the wall to fall....in hindsight should it have been there??????....who can really answer that....its like the tree... a tragic accident and to make political points out of something no one could really foresee is pretty crap. With not even the slightest blush :o cods wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 3:01pm: if a family member wanted more answers I am sure an investigation would or could take place........if it already hasnt. 6 inquiries into PB aren't enough, you must keep inquiring until you get the answers you want. cods wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 3:01pm: as it did with the pinkbatts.. but really didnt come up with the real answers......who really was responsible..and could! Yes they did just not the answers Tony can accept. cods wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 3:01pm: at least 3 deaths have been prevented????.... How? & how does one arrive at that number? cods wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 3:01pm: if there were 4 walls all the same and one was blown down killing 3 people... and the other walls remained until they were blown down killing more people....I would definitely agree a Royal is needed.. So its ok to kill 3 people in 1 go as long as you stop there? What if the wall killed 25, fell on a school bus stop at 8.30am, would it be OK because it only happened once?

I CANT BE B OTHERED WITH THE REST.. ITS EXHAUSTING... I THOUGHT YOU WERE BETTER...


THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A TRAGIC ACCIDENT AND POLITICAL POINT SCORING WHICH YOU ARE DOING...

TRAGIC MEANS BEING IN THE WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME.......

MEANS GETTING ON THE WRONG PLANE...MH370.BOARDING THE WRONG SHIP...[TITANIC]..

cods wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 4:43pm:

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A TRAGIC ACCIDENT AND POLITICAL POINT SCORING WHICH YOU ARE DOING... TRAGIC MEANS BEING IN THE WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME....... MEANS GETTING ON THE WRONG PLANE...MH370.BOARDING THE WRONG SHIP...[TITANIC]..

Or getting the wrong employer who doesn't provide proper training, wrong equipment or is just so pig headed they send you into a roof over 40+ degree's for extended periods?

Sorry I was just taking your lead and playing politics with tragic events, isn't that what we do now?

Or only when its a labor government :-, but reverts back to those actually responsible when our rightful rulers are in charge?

It's travesty of justice.

Workers struck for health & safety.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 6:58pm:

Sorry I was just taking your lead and playing politics with tragic events, isn't that what we do now?

Keep up Sir Dame Smithy ... that's only when labor are in govt.

cods wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 3:01pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 2:10pm: C'mon Teaspoon, surely you agree these innocents death should be subject to the same IF NOT MORE scrutiny as the insulation ones. More because these poor souls weren't being paid they were just walking down a street. Wind has been blamed, 102klm p/hour hardly cyclone strength in fact just a strong gust would be an apt description. Who approved the materials? Who approved the contractor? Who signed off once completed? Who chose the tender & on what basis? Who gave the OK for illegal signage? Never mind all that though your here to crow that the union who represents the workers within this dangerous & obviously sub standard work sight had the gale to point out these faults & now has been fined. so why did the unions allow them to work on a dangerous site... a gust of wind........is that written in any contract do you know???... most construction work is undertaken at local govt level... what about the child killed by the falling tree at school...will we have a Rayal into that as well??.. like who planted the tree .... right there of all places...... ::) ::) if you want a royal into every accident...the country will come to a stand still... to my knowledge the families of those killed by the wall...know that gale force wind caused the wall to fall....in hindsight should it have been there??????....who can really answer that....its like the tree... a tragic accident and to make political points out of something no one could really foresee is pretty crap. if a family member wanted more answers I am sure an investigation would or could take place........if it already hasnt. as it did with the pinkbatts.. but really didnt come up with the real answers......who really was responsible..and could! at least 3 deaths have been prevented????.... if there were 4 walls all the same and one was blown down killing 3 people... and the other walls remained until they were blown down killing more people....I would definitely agree a Royal is needed..

Cods, it was the employer who required workers to work in dangerous conditions.

When their union moved to stop the practice it ended up in court.

As part of the establishment, the courts and employers frequently walk hand in hand.

Forcing the CMEU to pay a big fine will do nothing to make the building industry any safer.

I hope the union refuses to pay.

Frances wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 4:40pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 4:29pm: Unions operate with no such oversight, except (laughably) their own). What about the The Fair Work (Registered Organisations) Act 2009?

I am talking about financial oversight - auditing. How else was Thomo able to summarily approve his expenditure without oversight?

Armchair_Politician wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 6:41am:

Frances wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 4:40pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 4:29pm: Unions operate with no such oversight, except (laughably) their own). What about the The Fair Work (Registered Organisations) Act 2009? I am talking about financial oversight - auditing. How else was Thomo able to summarily approve his expenditure without oversight?

many businesses have no financial oversight .... look at your last subway store ... how often did you put the cash in your pocket and not receipt it ... were you audited? :D :D :D

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 12:46pm:

When will you have a royal commission these shonky companies Tony Quote: SIX months after a tragic wall collapse killed three people, there are still no answers on the tragedy. Four separate organisations have failed to return public reports on the March 28 incident. WorkSafe, Grocon, Victoria Police and the Coroner’s office declined to release any details of their investigations this week. But Grocon revealed that it was planning to build a memorial for the victims - Bridget and Alexander Jones and Dr Marie-Faith Fiawoo - on the vacant Swanston St site, which is to become an apartment and retail complex. WorkSafe spokesman Peter Flaherty was unable to give a deadline for the agency’s report. “This comprehensive investigation is ongoing, but given the complexity of the task, it remains in its relatively early stages and will take some time to complete,” he said. The 19-year-old Jones twins and Dr Fiawoo, 33, were walking along Swanston St when a brick wall, which had a wooden hoarding bolted to its facade, collapsed in 102km/h wind. http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/international/sites/default/files/imagecache/ra_article_feature/images/2013/04/2/4605304-3x2-700x467_3.jpg http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/4602040-1x1-340x340.jpg http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/tokpisin/sites/default/files/imagecache/ra_article_feature/images/2013/03/31/4602592-3x2-700x467_12.jpg Ms Jones, who had been sheltered by her brother, was rescued but later died in hospital. Mr Jones and Dr Fiawoo, a French national who had been working at Monash University, died at the scene. Investigations were expected to focus on the condition of the red brick wall and why a wooden hoarding was bolted to its facade. The Herald Sun revealed in April that there were significant cracks in the base of the brick wall at least four months before it fell. The City of Melbourne also confirmed that Grocon did not have a permit to attach a wooden hoarding to the wall. The hoarding, which was higher than the brick wall, may have increased the load on the wall beyond its design and acted as a sail during its collapse. Grocon spokesman Mike Zorbas said it was too early to comment on its investigations. “We have been working with the relevant authorities in relation to their formal inquiries into the matter. This has included the Coroner, the police and WorkSafe,” he said. “We have begun to make arrangements for an appropriate memorial on the site.” Victoria Police confirmed its investigations were continuing. Criminal charges could be laid over the incident, which could delay the probes further. Sheree Argento, a spokeswoman for the Coroner’s Court of Victoria, said Judge Ian Gray would seek an update from the investigating police member before fixing the next hearing date. “As indicated in the mention hearing held earlier this year, His Honour is concerned about controlling any unnecessary delays in relation to this investigation and will seek to proceed with this matter as soon as practicable,” she said. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/still-no-answers-on-swanston-st-wall-collapse/story-fni0fit3-1226722337273 3 innocent people walking along a street DEAD Surely this requires a Royal Commission Tony?? But no we'll fine the Union for bringing to light safety concerns & then get rid of those concerns by simply calling the regulations RED TAPE & scrapping them. Think how much profits will increase if we don't have safe work places or nosey people talking about death & injury at work. Given up your penalties yet Teaspoon?

That seems rather unreasonable of you as well as a rather transparent deflection.  100km/hr+ winds contributed to what was nothing more than an accident. There will always be accidents and while we try to prevent them, much of that prevention occurs after an accident which was not predicted or predictable.

In the meantime, the union from the OP engaged in illegal and obstructive behaviour and have been fined properly as a result.  Care to comment?

John Smith wrote on Mar 31^st, 2014 at 4:31pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 4:29pm: Frances wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 4:08pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 12:34pm: When will you reign in these militant unions, Electricity Bill? When? Once Abbott reins in the militant corporations maybe? Corporations are subject to normal business laws/governance. Unions operate with no such oversight, except (laughably) their own). Hence the incidences of corruption such as Thomson and Williamson... Unions aren't subject to business laws and have no oversight? Pray tell !! So under what laws were thommo and Williamson charged? Chinas?

You many be unaware but one of the industrial laws that Abbott proposes and the union and labor opposes is to make Unions come under the same governance and financial responsibility laws as ever other company.  They are treated differently.

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:19am:

In the meantime, the union from the OP engaged in illegal and obstructive behaviour and have been fined properly as a result.  Care to comment?

Sure my example was to highlight the difference of treatment between "Building Unions" & "Building Companies"

The company illegally erected a sign which caused the death of 3 people walking down the street.


Quote:

The Herald Sun revealed in April that there were significant cracks in the base of the brick wall at least four months before it fell. The City of Melbourne also confirmed that Grocon did not have a permit to attach a wooden hoarding to the wall.

Grocon have quite a few safety related issues & not just highlighted by Unions


Quote:

Builder Grocon's safety record has been attacked by a senior executive of one of Australia's biggest developers. Leaked emails between senior executives at property developer Mirvac and Grocon reveal there were serious concerns through 2012 and 2011 about Grocon's work on a $200 million Docklands apartment project known as Tower 8. The leaked emails will again place the spotlight on Grocon's safety record. It has come under scrutiny after the deaths in March of three pedestrians who were walking past Grocon's CUB site in Swanston Street when a wall collapsed on them. Grocon's work as a builder on Mirvac's Tower 8 project was subject to complaints made by Mirvac's then project manager, Dominic McCarthy, about poor safety practices and intimidation. http://www.smh.com.au/business/property/grocon-had-little-regard-for-safety-20130505-2j1cy.html#ixzz2xaj9JAXt

I thought intimidation was a union practice?? :-?


Quote:

Since the protest outside the Myer Emporium last August it has been one saftey shocker after another from Grocon. March 28: Wall collapse Swanston St, 3 dead March 25: Worker skewered in leg by reo bar following scaffold collapse, Myer Emporium site, Lonsdale St March 21: Crane crews forced to work in 96km/h winds. Load dropped at cancer centre site putting crane out of action and riggers sent out to change crane ropes at Russell St March 13: Blowout occurs while tensioning slab at Emporium site February 18: Crane operator Bill Ramsay falls to his death at Emporium site December 2012: Formwork collapse during concrete pour, Emporium site October – December 2012: Excavation at cancer centre site undermines and cracks Royal Pde, closing it to traffic for months . 28 September 2012: Dogman’s load struck by lightning after crane works through electrical storm, Emporium 26 September 2012: Carpenter severs finger after being required to dog tower crane illegally, Footscray Over the past 6 months CFMEU safety advisers have been called to Grocon sites more than 30 times. Grocon management has tried to stop our advisers entering and doing their work. This is why the CFMEU will never give up our fight to have OHS and union reps elected on Grocon’s sites. Safety – No Compromise!

So here we have a company that's illegally erected a billboard which contributed to the death of 3 innocent people, has other building companies calling them out for unsafe work practices & intimidation.

But who cops a fine?? The union representing the workers who are regularly killed & injured on site.

And here we have yet again a partisan political hack (trying) to score points because it apparently advantages his party if Unions are destroyed.

Supreme Court Hands Down Grocon Penalty

Statement by John Setka, CFMEU Secretary

The CFMEU was fined $1.25 million today in the Supreme Court over the protest at the Grocon Myer Emporium site in 2012.

The protest at the Myer site was about safety.

That's a matter of life and death for building workers.  Since 2012, 23 workers have died on construction sites.

Building workers need someone on site who genuinely represents their interests, and that doesn't happen when that person is hand-picked by the boss.

The union is not seeking to be above the law.  We want to save lives.



John Setka
CFMEU Secretary

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:04am:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 10:19am: In the meantime, the union from the OP engaged in illegal and obstructive behaviour and have been fined properly as a result.  Care to comment? Sure my example was to highlight the difference of treatment between "Building Unions" & "Building Companies" The company illegally erected a sign which caused the death of 3 people walking down the street. Quote: The Herald Sun revealed in April that there were significant cracks in the base of the brick wall at least four months before it fell. The City of Melbourne also confirmed that Grocon did not have a permit to attach a wooden hoarding to the wall. Grocon have quite a few safety related issues & not just highlighted by Unions [quote]Builder Grocon's safety record has been attacked by a senior executive of one of Australia's biggest developers. Leaked emails between senior executives at property developer Mirvac and Grocon reveal there were serious concerns through 2012 and 2011 about Grocon's work on a $200 million Docklands apartment project known as Tower 8. The leaked emails will again place the spotlight on Grocon's safety record. It has come under scrutiny after the deaths in March of three pedestrians who were walking past Grocon's CUB site in Swanston Street when a wall collapsed on them. Grocon's work as a builder on Mirvac's Tower 8 project was subject to complaints made by Mirvac's then project manager, Dominic McCarthy, about poor safety practices and intimidation. http://www.smh.com.au/business/property/grocon-had-little-regard-for-safety-20130505-2j1cy.html#ixzz2xaj9JAXt

I thought intimidation was a union practice?? :-?


Quote:

Since the protest outside the Myer Emporium last August it has been one saftey shocker after another from Grocon. March 28: Wall collapse Swanston St, 3 dead March 25: Worker skewered in leg by reo bar following scaffold collapse, Myer Emporium site, Lonsdale St March 21: Crane crews forced to work in 96km/h winds. Load dropped at cancer centre site putting crane out of action and riggers sent out to change crane ropes at Russell St March 13: Blowout occurs while tensioning slab at Emporium site February 18: Crane operator Bill Ramsay falls to his death at Emporium site December 2012: Formwork collapse during concrete pour, Emporium site October – December 2012: Excavation at cancer centre site undermines and cracks Royal Pde, closing it to traffic for months . 28 September 2012: Dogman’s load struck by lightning after crane works through electrical storm, Emporium 26 September 2012: Carpenter severs finger after being required to dog tower crane illegally, Footscray Over the past 6 months CFMEU safety advisers have been called to Grocon sites more than 30 times. Grocon management has tried to stop our advisers entering and doing their work. This is why the CFMEU will never give up our fight to have OHS and union reps elected on Grocon’s sites. Safety – No Compromise!

So here we have a company that's illegally erected a billboard which contributed to the death of 3 innocent people, has other building companies calling them out for unsafe work practices & intimidation.

But who cops a fine?? The union representing the workers who are regularly killed & injured on site.

And here we have yet again a partisan political hack (trying) to score points because it apparently advantages his party if Unions are destroyed.
[/quote]

And if you were willing to discuss BOTH issues you might have a point but so far all you have done is come across as a political hack yourself. The building company clearly broke some regulations and no one and certainly not me, is arguing otherwise but if you read the OP you would see that is not the topic at hand.

Deflections are poor form in any debate and usually indicate a lack of knowledge of the topic of recognition that their position lacks substance.

Now, are you going to address the topic or continue your obvious and weak deflection?

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:09am:

And if you were willing to discuss BOTH issues you might have a point but so far all you have done is come across as a political hack yourself. The building company clearly broke some regulations and no one and certainly not me, is arguing otherwise but if you read the OP you would see that is not the topic at hand. Deflections are poor form in any debate and usually indicate a lack of knowledge of the topic of recognition that their position lacks substance. Now, are you going to address the topic or continue your obvious and weak deflection?

Wow are you serious?

You wish to debate substance & policy rather than just throw mud?

I hope you stick around whether your actually new or a sock trying something new(250 posts in 4 days suggests the latter).

As for the topic, the union defied a court order & have been subsequently fined, I think the fine is rather heavy considering the circumstance & the companies Work safety history but if we wish to maintain a society you just can't thumb your nose at the courts.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:31am:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 11:09am: And if you were willing to discuss BOTH issues you might have a point but so far all you have done is come across as a political hack yourself. The building company clearly broke some regulations and no one and certainly not me, is arguing otherwise but if you read the OP you would see that is not the topic at hand. Deflections are poor form in any debate and usually indicate a lack of knowledge of the topic of recognition that their position lacks substance. Now, are you going to address the topic or continue your obvious and weak deflection? Wow are you serious? You wish to debate substance & policy rather than just throw mud? I hope you stick around whether your actually new or a sock trying something new(250 posts in 4 days suggests the latter). As for the topic, the union defied a court order & have been subsequently fined, I think the fine is rather heavy considering the circumstance & the companies Work safety history but if we wish to maintain a society you just can't thumb your nose at the courts.

So in the final sentence you actually addressed the OP. Congrats! 

Now, if calling your blatant deflection as 'deflection' is your idea of throwing mud then I pity you. It is what it is and if you don't want more such' mud' then stick to the topic.  Start a topic on work safety if you want and you might even find me largely in agreement. But your posts were and remain nothing more than a deflection.

Call it what you want, frankly I wasn't even addressing the topic but the poster.

You remind me of someone but I'm leaving for a longweekend of poker.
Hopefully I'll get the gold Medal

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 11:31am:

Wow are you serious? You wish to debate substance & policy rather than just throw mud? I hope you stick around whether your actually new or a sock trying something new(250 posts in 4 days suggests the latter).

They slip up eventually. A quote from the "Clarity of insults" thread....


Quote:

Don't confuse the swear word filter with the other rules. The rules about insults are context dependent.

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 12:04pm:

Call it what you want, frankly I wasn't even addressing the topic but the poster. You remind me of someone but I'm leaving for a longweekend of poker. Hopefully I'll get the gold Medal

Addressing the poster and not the topic is hardly an improvement.

Enjoy your poker.  Win big.

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 10:21am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 4:31pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 4:29pm: Frances wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 4:08pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 12:34pm: When will you reign in these militant unions, Electricity Bill? When? Once Abbott reins in the militant corporations maybe? Corporations are subject to normal business laws/governance. Unions operate with no such oversight, except (laughably) their own). Hence the incidences of corruption such as Thomson and Williamson... Unions aren't subject to business laws and have no oversight? Pray tell !! So under what laws were thommo and Williamson charged? Chinas? You many be unaware but one of the industrial laws that Abbott proposes and the union and labor opposes is to make Unions come under the same governance and financial responsibility laws as ever other company.  They are treated differently.

don't tell me you also believe they have no laws governing them?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 12:04pm:

Call it what you want, frankly I wasn't even addressing the topic but the poster. You remind me of someone but I'm leaving for a longweekend of poker. Hopefully I'll get the gold Medal

nah ... its not longweekend ... I and some others had a run in with B&B the other day and he didn't once call anyone stupid ... it can't be longy

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:07pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 10:21am: John Smith wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 4:31pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 4:29pm: Frances wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 4:08pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 12:34pm: When will you reign in these militant unions, Electricity Bill? When? Once Abbott reins in the militant corporations maybe? Corporations are subject to normal business laws/governance. Unions operate with no such oversight, except (laughably) their own). Hence the incidences of corruption such as Thomson and Williamson... Unions aren't subject to business laws and have no oversight? Pray tell !! So under what laws were thommo and Williamson charged? Chinas? You many be unaware but one of the industrial laws that Abbott proposes and the union and labor opposes is to make Unions come under the same governance and financial responsibility laws as ever other company.  They are treated differently. don't tell me you also believe they have no laws governing them?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I don't.  But then again you didn't read my post correctly.

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1^st, 2014 at 3:10pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 3:07pm: Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 1st, 2014 at 10:21am: John Smith wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 4:31pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 4:29pm: Frances wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 4:08pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 31st, 2014 at 12:34pm: When will you reign in these militant unions, Electricity Bill? When? Once Abbott reins in the militant corporations maybe? Corporations are subject to normal business laws/governance. Unions operate with no such oversight, except (laughably) their own). Hence the incidences of corruption such as Thomson and Williamson... Unions aren't subject to business laws and have no oversight? Pray tell !! So under what laws were thommo and Williamson charged? Chinas? You many be unaware but one of the industrial laws that Abbott proposes and the union and labor opposes is to make Unions come under the same governance and financial responsibility laws as ever other company.  They are treated differently. don't tell me you also believe they have no laws governing them?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I don't.  But then again you didn't read my post correctly.

No I read your post, it is you who either can't read or doesn't understand what he is reading.

The claim was unions aren't covered by business laws and have no oversight ... perhaps you could respond to that claim?