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Message started by Lord Herbert on Apr 6th, 2014 at 5:25pm

Title: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Lord Herbert on Apr 6th, 2014 at 5:25pm
Pickering on the rampage again ~ for good reason.

Australia has welcomed and befriended people of varied cultures world-wide. We have always been multicultural, and we are much the richer for it.

There weren’t enough of us in the first fleet to populate or develop a nation. We were reliant on immigration to become one of the world’s major economies within a short 200 years.

The diverse cultures of China, Japan, Greece, Italy and many other European, African and Asian nations have joined our own unique culture to enrich the Aussie lifestyle.

But there is one culture that is alien to Australians who have, until now, welcomed all-comers... and that’s the culture of Islam.

I can already hear the loony Left screeching “racism” and “xenophobia”, but no fellas, it has nothing to do with race, it has everything to do with “culture”, a culture that will not, and has no intention to, assimilate and join in our celebration of multiculturalism.

Islam is an archaic culture embracing paedophilia, beheadings, severing of limbs, rape, incredible cruelty to animals, subjugation of women, sexual abuse of children and an innate, violent hatred of Christianity and democracy.

Everything we stand for, they stand against.

Anyone daring to challenge their beliefs is met with a death sentence in the name of their Allah.


********************

The judiciary is a self-regulating body and, as with all systems that are permitted self-regulation, it will eventually become corrupt, undemocratic and fastidiously self-protective.

The appallingly low quality of Australia’s magistracy is a consequence of how they are appointed. They are failed lawyers, otherwise they would still be in lucrative practices.

Law firms don’t sack unwanted lawyers, they simply nominate them for the magistracy and the Attorney General signs off on them.

Even Julia Gillard, who is guilty of the worst of “lawyer” crimes, wasn’t sacked, she was politely asked to quietly leave.

Paedophilia is over-represented in the judiciary, religion and the entertainment industry. Actually it’s more than over-represented, it’s rampant, systemic and cleverly disguised.

Western nations practise the same paedophile sickness as do Islamic nations.

The difference is that Western nations closet it while Islamic nations wear it as an emblem of their “culture”.


link

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Dame Karnal on Apr 6th, 2014 at 5:33pm
Culture, eh? How diabolically sinister.

Does the old boy know this? These Muselmen are muscling in on his patch.

Better send the recipe back to Mormor for safe keeping, old chap. This is war.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by wally1 on Apr 6th, 2014 at 7:02pm

I reckon Herbert edited pickerings post.

What was actually written was this,

Christianity is a archaic culture which embraces the raping of children in orphanages and churches, beheading of muslim children sending drones so high in the air that the kids cant defend themselves or get warning there coming, the frequent rape of thousands of fellow Christians on the street and on army bases, and the violent hatred of islam and shariah law.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Dame Karnal on Apr 6th, 2014 at 8:17pm

wally1 wrote on Apr 6th, 2014 at 7:02pm:
I reckon Herbert edited pickerings post.

What was actually written was this,

Christianity is a archaic culture which embraces the raping of children in orphanages and churches, beheading of muslim children sending drones so high in the air that the kids cant defend themselves or get warning there coming, the frequent rape of thousands of fellow Christians on the street and on army bases, and the violent hatred of islam and shariah law.


Really? Doesn’t really matter, does it?

Frankly, Herbie doesn’t give a damn if they’re Christian or Muslim. I don’t think Herbie’s a fan of populating our suburbs with Nigerian or Burmese Christians.

English neo-Nazi atheists like Herbie, maybe, but the tinted races?

Never ever.

And what could be more "cultural" than that?

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Lord Herbert on Apr 6th, 2014 at 8:40pm

wally1 wrote on Apr 6th, 2014 at 7:02pm:
I reckon Herbert edited pickerings post.


As long as you're not fooling yourself with these attempts at avoiding some unpleasant truths about large sections of Muslim society then there's hope for you yet.

It's not the 'Herberts' you have to worry about Wally ... it's the really bad dudes with no saving graces to their character who will be the ones to look out for.

When they enter the fray, I'll be on your side, but until then ...







Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Dame Karnal on Apr 6th, 2014 at 8:49pm
Hear it, Wally. Herbie will join forces with you sinister Muselman when the really bad guys enter the fray.

My god, wait until Y and Pete take over.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Pete Waldo on Apr 7th, 2014 at 12:30am

wally1 wrote on Apr 6th, 2014 at 7:02pm:
I reckon Herbert edited pickerings post.

What was actually written was this,

Christianity is a archaic culture which embraces the raping of children in orphanages and churches, beheading of muslim children sending drones so high in the air that the kids cant defend themselves or get warning there coming, the frequent rape of thousands of fellow Christians on the street and on army bases, and the violent hatred of islam and shariah law.


To quote the Beaver: "Gee Wally", I thought it peculiar that the same writer that could be so spot-on about the counter-Gospel, antichrist, anti-religion culture of Islam, could then turn around and employ the typical taqiyyah of Muslims who accuse by pretending that all non-Muslims are Christians.

I checked the article, and somehow I missed the part that you quoted Wally.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by greggerypeccary on Apr 7th, 2014 at 8:18am


Pickering    ;D

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Lord Herbert on Apr 7th, 2014 at 8:22am

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 7th, 2014 at 8:18am:
Pickering    ;D


He's not pickled when he writes these penetrating articles.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by wally1 on Apr 7th, 2014 at 9:44am
Larry pickering's son gets arrested yesterday on the gold coast.Is this the type of articles and advice we should be taking off pickering when he cant even raise his children to be good Australians?


Nightclub owner Jamie Pickering, top DJ Joseph ‘JoeyMojo’ Sandagon and senior bikie Josh Downey arrested in Gold Coast drug raids

http://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/news/crime-court/nightclub-owner-jamie-pickering-top-dj-joseph-joeymojo-sandagon-and-senior-bikie-josh-downey-arrested-in-gold-coast-drug-raids/story-fnje8bkv-1226875954745

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Lord Herbert on Apr 7th, 2014 at 1:07pm

wally1 wrote on Apr 7th, 2014 at 9:44am:
Larry pickering's son gets arrested yesterday on the gold coast. Is this the type of articles and advice we should be taking off pickering when he cant even raise his children to be good Australians?


Oh well, there you are, Wally.

Christ Himself was arrested and given a terminal sentence .. so perhaps we should all ignore the words of the Bible?

And the Prophet Mohammad ... he would be facing a stiff sentence if he was alive today. Multiple charges too numerous to list here.

If you believe in 'generational guilt' ~ as you obviously do ~ then perhaps you should be careful of glass-houses, Wally.




Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by freediver on Apr 9th, 2014 at 8:19pm

Quote:
And the Prophet Mohammad ... he would be facing a stiff sentence if he was alive today. Multiple charges too numerous to list here.


Muslims have an excuse for every single one of them. Just ask. Most of them start with "but they deserved it for being scheming Jews..."

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by True Colours on Apr 9th, 2014 at 8:27pm

wally1 wrote on Apr 7th, 2014 at 9:44am:
Larry pickering's son gets arrested yesterday on the gold coast.

Nightclub owner Jamie Pickering, top DJ Joseph ‘JoeyMojo’ Sandagon and senior bikie Josh Downey arrested in Gold Coast drug raids

http://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/news/crime-court/nightclub-owner-jamie-pickering-top-dj-joseph-joeymojo-sandagon-and-senior-bikie-josh-downey-arrested-in-gold-coast-drug-raids/story-fnje8bkv-1226875954745

Must be the mainstream culture he is talking about. No wonder Muslims are having a hard time fitting in.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Grand Duke Imam Gandalf on Apr 11th, 2014 at 11:07am

freediver wrote on Apr 9th, 2014 at 8:19pm:
Muslims have an excuse for every single one of them. Just ask. Most of them start with "but they deserved it for being scheming Jews..."


Interesting, that in my nearly 2 years here you're the only person I've ever seen using that phrase.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by freediver on Apr 13th, 2014 at 7:28pm
How would you prefer me to spin it? Traitorous Jews? Sound a bit more familiar now Gandalf?

Fancy refusing to hand over the Jew gold that Muhammed won fair and square by slaughtering a heap of Jews.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Grand Duke Imam Gandalf on Apr 14th, 2014 at 8:00am

freediver wrote on Apr 13th, 2014 at 7:28pm:
How would you prefer me to spin it?


Preferably by what muslims actually say.

I wandered over to the general discussion board last week and saw the worst anti-semitic bigotry I've seen on this board. And not a muslim in sight.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by freediver on Apr 14th, 2014 at 8:48am
How about plotting? Is that familiar enough also? Muhammed slaughtered Jews for being plotting, traitorous Jews, not because they were scheming Jews. They were also treacherous.

Happy now? I wouldn't want to sound like a bigot.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Dnarever on Apr 14th, 2014 at 8:49am
Posting Pickering ????

Ho Ho Ho.

Now to find todays copy of Bolt or Akerman's dribble.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Lord Herbert on Apr 14th, 2014 at 9:20am

Dnarever wrote on Apr 14th, 2014 at 8:49am:
Posting Pickering ????

Ho Ho Ho.

Now to find todays copy of Bolt or Akerman's dribble.


Would you like to cite an example of their drivel?  :)


Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Yadda on Apr 14th, 2014 at 9:21am

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 11th, 2014 at 11:07am:

freediver wrote on Apr 9th, 2014 at 8:19pm:
Muslims have an excuse for every single one of them. Just ask. Most of them start with "but they deserved it for being scheming Jews..."


Interesting, that in my nearly 2 years here you're the only person I've ever seen using that phrase.




gandalf,

There are many, many, words in the English language, that can be used to speak in a derogatory way, with derogatory intent, in describing the Jewish people.

So you see gandalf, it not so much the particular words which are being used that are important, but it is the intent that is being conveyed, with the particular words which are used, that is far more important.




e.g.
What intent would you attribute to the intent and virtue of ISLAM, if you heard these words that describe ISLAM ?....


Quote:

Rejecting Terror
Thursday, 11 April 2013

Muslims everywhere consider all acts of terrorism that aims to murder and maim innocent human beings utterly reprehensible and abhorrent.

There is no theological basis whatsoever for such acts in our faith.

The very meaning of the word 'Islam' is peace.

[ISLAM] rejects terror and promotes peace and harmony.



http://www.mcb.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2307:mcbnewstemplate&catid=82:mcb-news
http://www.mcb.org.uk/article_detail.php?article=announcement-656





Surely such phrases like these [coming from British 'mainstream' moslems]....

"Muslims everywhere consider all acts of terrorism.....abhorrent."
and,
"ISLAM is peace"
and,
"[ISLAM] rejects terror and promotes peace and harmony."

...would appear to present ISLAM as as though it was a virtuous, and violence free philosophy.



But every thinking person would know, that such a self portrayal [of ISLAM and moslem intent towards those who are not moslems], by moslems, is an utter deceit.




+++

FROM ISLAMIC law....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."





FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260



FROM THE KORAN

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29


Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Yadda on Apr 14th, 2014 at 9:34am

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 14th, 2014 at 8:00am:

freediver wrote on Apr 13th, 2014 at 7:28pm:
How would you prefer me to spin it?


Preferably by what muslims actually say.



But as has been pointed out in this forum, time and time again, that we [those of us who are not moslems] can never tell, if "what muslims actually say", actually reflects moslem intentions.

And surely, gandalf, moslem intentions, are far more important [in the real world], rather than what moslems say to us ?



"ISLAM is peace."


IMAGE.....

wtc-9-11.jpg

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Grand Duke Imam Gandalf on Apr 14th, 2014 at 11:01am

freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2014 at 8:48am:
How about plotting? Is that familiar enough also? Muhammed slaughtered Jews for being plotting, traitorous Jews, not because they were scheming Jews. They were also treacherous.

Happy now? I wouldn't want to sound like a bigot.


You do sound like a bigot - because you are a blatant distorter.

Muhammad executed traitors and schemers. Full stop. No one except you is phrasing it as traitorous and scheming jews.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Yadda on Apr 14th, 2014 at 11:35am

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 14th, 2014 at 11:01am:

freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2014 at 8:48am:
How about plotting? Is that familiar enough also? Muhammed slaughtered Jews for being plotting, traitorous Jews, not because they were scheming Jews. They were also treacherous.

Happy now? I wouldn't want to sound like a bigot.


You do sound like a bigot - because you are a blatant distorter.

Muhammad executed traitors and schemers. Full stop. No one except you is phrasing it as traitorous and scheming jews.



gandalf,

According to your own Koran, 'Allah is the best of schemers.'

"And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers."
Koran 3.54


So isn't being a 'schemer' a virtuous quality ?

I ask, because being a 'schemer', is a quality that is attributed to Allah ?


And the word 'schemer' also 'translates' to, deceiver, imo.



gandalf,

QUESTION;
Do 'schemers' and 'traitors' and those who break their covenants belong together ?





+++


In the Bible, the God of Israel is attributed thus;

Job 12:16
With [God] is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his.




The God of Israel, a schemer ?

Isaiah 43:8
Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.
9  Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.
10  Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11  I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
12  I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.
13  Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?



Isaiah 45:17
But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
18  For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
19  I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.
20  Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.
21  Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
22  Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.


Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Grand Duke Imam Gandalf on Apr 14th, 2014 at 1:04pm
Stirring words Y.

.... that is, at least I assume they are. I'm sure I would come to that conclusion if I could actually be bothered reading them.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Dame Karnal on Apr 14th, 2014 at 1:12pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 14th, 2014 at 9:20am:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 14th, 2014 at 8:49am:
Posting Pickering ????

Ho Ho Ho.

Now to find todays copy of Bolt or Akerman's dribble.


Would you like to cite an example of their drivel?  :)


Sure. Here's an oldie but a goodie on Piers from the usual suspects on Media Watch:


Quote:
Piers' Plagiarism :: 10/02/2003

Here’s Piers in December giving Carmen Lawrence a pasting.

Making a martyr for a lost cause
In resigning from Labor's shadow cabinet, the postergirl for the tunnel-visioned Left has attempted to portray herself as a martyr...
Sunday Telegraph, 8 December 2002

To highlight Carmen's failings, Piers quoted from a senior member of Al-Qaeda, Abu Amain Al-Hilali, who believed that terrorists are justified in killing Westerners.

'Making a martyr for a lost cause'
The citizens of the democratic western countries take full part in the decisions taken by their governments. The residents of those countries are not classified as 'civilians' as they were classified during previous wars in history.
Sunday Telegraph, 8 December 2002

See Piers Akerman's article »

Piers' wasn't only quoting Al-Halili. Everything he said about him and his views was taken from an Israel Defence Force press release.

'Making a martyr for a lost cause'
Abu Aiman Al- Hilali, a senior member of the Al- Qaida terror organization, marked the US, Britain, France, Italy, Canada, Germany and Australia as enemies of the organization. He also justified terror attacks perpetrated by Al- Qaeda "Jihad warriors" in the US, Tunisia, Pakistan, Yemen, Bali, Moscow and other places.
Sunday Telegraph, 8 December 2002

Read IDF Press Release »

Akerman dropped almost every word of that Israeli press release straight into his article without thanks or acknowledgement and it’s not an isolated case.


You want one from Bolt? It's hard to know where to start.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Dame Karnal on Apr 14th, 2014 at 1:20pm

Yadda wrote on Apr 14th, 2014 at 9:34am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 14th, 2014 at 8:00am:

freediver wrote on Apr 13th, 2014 at 7:28pm:
How would you prefer me to spin it?


Preferably by what muslims actually say.



But as has been pointed out in this forum, time and time again, that we [those of us who are not moslems] can never tell, if "what muslims actually say", actually reflects moslem intentions.

And surely, gandalf, moslem intentions, are far more important [in the real world], rather than what moslems say to us ?



"ISLAM is peace."


IMAGE.....

wtc-9-11.jpg


That's right, Y. Here's what a Karmic Christian had to say in Oklahoma.

Google:

Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
OKLAHOMA-CITY-BOMBING-ANNIVERSARY-large570.jpg (75 KB | 50 )

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by freediver on Apr 14th, 2014 at 1:23pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 14th, 2014 at 11:01am:

freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2014 at 8:48am:
How about plotting? Is that familiar enough also? Muhammed slaughtered Jews for being plotting, traitorous Jews, not because they were scheming Jews. They were also treacherous.

Happy now? I wouldn't want to sound like a bigot.


You do sound like a bigot - because you are a blatant distorter.

Muhammad executed traitors and schemers. Full stop. No one except you is phrasing it as traitorous and scheming jews.


Yes, 800 of them in one day. Because they were schemers. Not because they were Jews.

Thanks for the clarification Gandalf. I have added it to the wiki for future reference.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/wiki/index.php?title=Islamic_lexicon

Now don't say I never update it.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Grand Duke Imam Gandalf on Apr 14th, 2014 at 2:51pm
I really don't know what your hang up on this is FD. The Qurayza were executed because they were traitors, not because they were jews. You are the only one trying to put an anti-semitic frame around this by putting words into my mouth. Presumably because I refuse to condemn this act because they were jews. 

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Grand Duke Imam Gandalf on Apr 14th, 2014 at 2:55pm
By the way FD, plotting, traitorous and treacherous jews are unacceptable as well. Please update the wiki again.

And let it be known these are your terms, and your terms alone. I encourage you to provide a footnote to this very post.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Grand Duke Imam Gandalf on Apr 14th, 2014 at 3:04pm
oh and while I'm at it, the burqa is not the traditional scarf. That is called the hijab. Your description of the niqab is actually the burqa. The niqab is just a cloth that covers the whole face except for the eyes - the burqa is the one piece head to foot covering with a mesh over the eyes.

Also a note on spelling: both 'burqa' and 'niqab' are spelled with the arabic "qaaf" (ق) - which is the equivalent to the english Q. So it is not correct to spell one with a k and one with a q - they should both be the same, and preferably with a q.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by freediver on Apr 14th, 2014 at 6:28pm

Quote:
I really don't know what your hang up on this is FD. The Qurayza were executed because they were traitors, not because they were jews.


You have personally argued that this tribe of Jews were a borg-like entity in the eyes of the law, to the extent that all must be held accountable for the crimes of a few, without a trial, and without regard for the intentions or even actions of the individuals, such that Muhammed slaughtered many of the people who had materially assisted his war effort. You justify this by saying that they were all - every single one of them - scheming Jews. It was the fact that they were Jewish that made Muhammed so desperate to get rid of them. They were a powerful group who would not bow down to them, and Muhammed could not tolerate that. That is why he got rid of all three tribes.


Quote:
And let it be known these are your terms, and your terms alone. I encourage you to provide a footnote to this very post.


You have used the term plotting and traiterous. I think treacherous was one of Abu's favourites. I don't recall seeing either of you use the term in reference to non-Jews. I guess it is just a coincidence that Islam compels you to portray so many Jews this way.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Soren on Apr 14th, 2014 at 8:54pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 14th, 2014 at 3:04pm:
oh and while I'm at it, the burqa is not the traditional scarf. That is called the hijab. Your description of the niqab is actually the burqa. The niqab is just a cloth that covers the whole face except for the eyes - the burqa is the one piece head to foot covering with a mesh over the eyes.

Also a note on spelling: both 'burqa' and 'niqab' are spelled with the arabic "qaaf" (ق) - which is the equivalent to the english Q. So it is not correct to spell one with a k and one with a q - they should both be the same, and preferably with a q.



And jihad is not at all violent but an intensely peaceful, spiritual struggle:


Most fighters disappear without telling their families, only to resurface across the border with the Nusra Front, Syria’s Qaeda affiliate, or the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, a Qaeda splinter group. While some are uneducated and poor, others have university degrees and leave behind jobs, homes, cars, wives and children for a cause they believe will bring them rewards in heaven.

For most, it is a one-way trip, either because coming home could mean jail time or because they die abroad. Every few weeks, a Zarqa family holds a “martyr’s wedding,” so-called because achieving martyrdom is not seen as a cause for sadness, but for gathering and celebration.

While analysts say Jordan’s stagnant politics and economy encourage marginalized, devout men to seek glory on foreign battlefields, Islamist leaders, fighters and their relatives describe decisions motivated by intense conviction.

Many fighters are driven by the Syrian government’s extreme violence and the sense that the world is doing nothing to stop it. At the same time, they see Syria as a launching pad for their project to erase the region’s borders, found an Islamic state and impose Shariah law.

“There is no such thing as Syria for the Syrians,” said Munif Samara, a doctor and prominent Islamist in Zarqa. “If there is Islamic land, it is our duty to implement Shariah.”

Mr. Samara, who knows many Jordanians fighting in Syria, said he would not discourage his own son, a dentistry student, from going to Syria if he chose to.

“How long do we live?” Mr. Samara asked. “Do I give him the world or do I give him the afterlife?”


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/13/world/middleeast/in-jordan-town-syria-war-inspires-jihadist-dreams.html


It's all intense spiritual striving by marginalised doctors and uni students. Fighting with guns for sharia??
Preposterous!

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Grand Duke Imam Gandalf on Apr 14th, 2014 at 9:24pm

freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2014 at 6:28pm:
You have used the term plotting and traiterous [sic].


plotting and traitorous - yes, plottting and traitorous jews - no.

I deliberately avoid the term because it clearly contains all the usual anti-semitic connotations, and is therefore racist. You know this and I know this - so lets not pretend to be naive about it. You are determined to pin this turn of phrase on me in a desperate attempt to depict me as an anti-semite - the lowest method of debating. Its far easier to "debate" me through cheap sloganeering that dismisses me as a nazi, rather than sensibly address any of my actual points. I don't believe their fate had anything to do with their religion, and everything to do with their betrayal. I have even expanded on this previously, explaining that these particular tribes could only be called 'jewish' by a very loose definition of the word. Even if they originated from Palestine (and its likely they weren't), they were not at all familiar with the jewish holy books, and probably didn't even speak Hebrew. They were more generic monotheists than jewish.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by freediver on Apr 14th, 2014 at 10:06pm

Quote:
plotting and traitorous - yes, plottting and traitorous jews - no.


Plotting and traitorous people who just happen to be Jews - every single time.


Quote:
I deliberately avoid the term because it clearly contains all the usual anti-semitic connotations


You can only resort to the scheming Jew defence so many times before people figure out you are merely parroting scheming Jew. Unfortunately for you this is your standard answer.


Quote:
and is therefore racist. You know this and I know this - so lets not pretend to be naive about it.


It has nothing to do with race. Muhammed was a supremacist of the most cynical kind. We get that everyone was allowed into his cult, so long as they bowed down to him.


Quote:
You are determined to pin this turn of phrase on me in a desperate attempt to depict me as an anti-semite


I am depicting you as a spineless apologist.


Quote:
the lowest method of debating. Its far easier to "debate" me through cheap sloganeering that dismisses me as a nazi, rather than sensibly address any of my actual points.


I do address all of your actual points. If I have missed any, do let me know.


Quote:
I don't believe their fate had anything to do with their religion, and everything to do with their betrayal.


Right. Not because they were Jews. Because they were schemers. Muhammed got rid of all three powerful Jewish tribes in Medina, precisely because they would not convert to Islam and thus posed a political threat to him. You try to make out that not converting to Islam and being Jewish are totally unrelated. It is true that Muhammed originally intended to work with the Jews - because the Jews would accept him as their prophet. But no amount of politely informing them he was their prophet or threatening to kill them would change their mind. That is why things went downhill. Not because the Jews were traitors, but because Muhammed was your typical belligerent, self righteous Muslim. If he were alive today doing the things he did, I would plot against him. So would you, because you would not be fooled by his claims of divine right.


Quote:
I have even expanded on this previously, explaining that these particular tribes could only be called 'jewish' by a very loose definition of the word. Even if they originated from Palestine (and its likely they weren't), they were not at all familiar with the jewish holy books, and probably didn't even speak Hebrew. They were more generic monotheists than jewish.


So what? That does not make slaughtering them any more noble.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Grand Duke Imam Gandalf on Apr 14th, 2014 at 10:26pm

freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2014 at 10:06pm:
I do address all of your actual points. If I have missed any, do let me know.


You are incapable of discussing this without pulling out the cheap anti-semitic card. You're doing it now. Thats why you continually put the language of anti-semitism ("scheming/plotting jews") in my mouth. Its a standard tactic of yours actually - put words in all muslim's mouths - whether its me or Abu or the Grand Mufti or the generic "some muslims".

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by freediver on Apr 15th, 2014 at 12:24pm

Quote:
You are incapable of discussing this without pulling out the cheap anti-semitic card
.

Muhammed executed 800 POWs in one day.

This is where you pull out your scheming Jew retort.


Quote:
You're doing it now. Thats why you continually put the language of anti-semitism ("scheming/plotting jews") in my mouth.


I am not forcing you to try to justify the execution of 800 POWs by insisting they all just happened to be traitors and plotters. Islam compels you to do this. Islam compels you to be the anti-semite that Muhammed was. Islam compels you to insist that they were a borg-like entity to the extent that the many must be killed for the actions of the few. Yet when it suits you, you insist that these tribes were oppressive regimes where the lower classes had no say in the matter. Every piece of apologetic nonsense you post just drips with hypocrisy.


Quote:
Its a standard tactic of yours actually - put words in all muslim's mouths - whether its me or Abu or the Grand Mufti or the generic "some muslims".


Would you like me to quote you?

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Dame Karnal on Apr 15th, 2014 at 12:37pm

freediver wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 12:24pm:
I am not forcing you to try to justify the execution of 800 POWs by insisting they all just happened to be traitors and plotters. Islam compels you to do this. Islam compels you to be the anti-semite that Muhammed was. Islam compels you to insist that they were a borg-like entity to the extent that the many must be killed for the actions of the few.


But what happens when G does not accept this compulsion, FD?

Are you trying to force him to do so?

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Grand Duke Imam Gandalf on Apr 15th, 2014 at 2:13pm

freediver wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 12:24pm:
Islam compels you to be the anti-semite that Muhammed was.


Why FD? Why is it necessary to be an anti-semite to support the execution of these men? How in your funny little universe is it not possible to support the ultimate punishment for treachery unless you are an anti-semite?

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by freediver on Apr 15th, 2014 at 7:36pm

Quote:
Why FD? Why is it necessary to be an anti-semite to support the execution of these men? How in your funny little universe is it not possible to support the ultimate punishment for treachery unless you are an anti-semite?


Like I said, because Islam compels you to. Because Muhammed himself was an atni-semite and you must excuse every single thing he said and did. Because there is no moral argument that justifies slaughtering 800 POWs.

The apostle assembled them in their market and addressed them as follows: "O Jews, beware lest God bring upon you the vengeance that He brought upon Quraysh and become Muslims. You know that I am a prophet who has been sent - you will find that in your scriptures and God's covenant with you."

Does that sound like the words of a peacemaker who saw the Jews as equals? Convert or die? I am your prophet and you already know this? Or does it sound like a belligerent wannabe autocrat trying to start a fight with the last Jewish tribe standing in the way of his total domination over Medina? Muhammed would not tolerate the Jews, because the Jews would not bow down to him. He could not tolerate a society in which they were his equals and in which they held any political power, so he got rid of them from Medina and created a society in which they are inferior. This is not your standard religious view of whose religion is the one true religion. This is a society in which the Jews are legally inferior to Muslims. It is an integral part of Islam. It is institutionalised anti-semitism, and it started with expelling and slaughtering the Jews of Medina and cynically trying to spin it as self defense against scheming Jews - a cynical defense which you as a Muslim are obliged to trot out on demand.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Grand Duke Imam Gandalf on Apr 15th, 2014 at 8:59pm

freediver wrote on Apr 15th, 2014 at 7:36pm:
Like I said, because Islam compels you to.


Not my islam. See FD I have this great thing called free will. I choose to believe in an islam that is not anti-semitic - that says your version of Muhammad the anti-semitic is complete bollocks. And why not? Why would you assume that my beliefs must match your demented understanding of islam? Your no better than the human drone himself - Yadda - lecturing me that I willingly submit to a religion of deceit and murder. It never crosses either of your minds that I subscribe to a different version. Yadda just comes straight out and calls me a liar - I don't know what your position is, but let me make it crystal clear: your demented version of islam does not have *ANY* compelling influence on me whatsoever. I reject it, and I spit on it. Say that I am wrong - that my understanding of islamic texts and history is wrong - it doesn't matter - you are still 100% wrong to say that *MY* religion, *MY* personal beliefs "compels" me to be a racist f*ck.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Dame Karnal on Apr 15th, 2014 at 10:06pm
I don't think that's going into the Wiki, G.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Dame Karnal on Apr 15th, 2014 at 10:06pm
Shurely shome mishtake.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by freediver on Apr 16th, 2014 at 7:56pm

Quote:
Not my islam. See FD I have this great thing called free will. I choose to believe in an islam that is not anti-semitic


You choose to believe that excusing the slaughter and forced mass migration of Jews and blaming it all on the Jews is not anti-semitic. You are compelled to choose this, by Islam. You were given free will, and you gave it up for Islam.


Quote:
that says your version of Muhammad the anti-semitic is complete bollocks


You don't disagree with me on any of the details. You merely believe the islamic spin that excusing the slaughter and forced mass migration of Jews and blaming it all on the Jews is not anti-semitic.


Quote:
And why not?


How about sucking it up and being objective?


Quote:
It never crosses either of your minds that I subscribe to a different version.


I know you subscribe to a different version. You spin it differently to Abu. Yet you offer the exact same limp wristed excuses for the slaughter and forced mass migration of Jews. I am curious about how you manage to spin it all to be completely compatible with western values. Abu was a bit more honest about this. Every question I have put to you about it is brushed off.


Quote:
Yadda just comes straight out and calls me a liar - I don't know what your position is


I believe that you believe what you are saying. Islam compels you to believe it. You believe it is "nice" to slaughter 800 Jews in one day and blame it all on the victim. You are a good Muslim.


Quote:
but let me make it crystal clear: your demented version of islam does not have *ANY* compelling influence on me whatsoever


Islam compels you to believe Muhammed was really a nice bloke and had a perfectly good reason for doing all the evil things he did. It would be scary if I had the same compelling influence on anyone. Even a lapdog has more sense of independence.


Quote:
I reject it, and I spit on it.


Now I am confused. What do you spit on?


Quote:
Say that I am wrong - that my understanding of islamic texts and history is wrong


Islam intends you to accept the hollow spin it places on Muhammed's deeds. Your understanding seems perfectly correct from an Islamic perspective.


Quote:
it doesn't matter - you are still 100% wrong to say that *MY* religion, *MY* personal beliefs "compels" me to be a racist f*ck.


Now I see your confusion. It has nothing to do with race. Muhammed had every intention of converting the Jews, even the black ones, and turning them all into his mindless drones. It was their refusal to bow down to him, and the political threat they posed, that drove Muhammed to get rid of them all. It's about religion and politics (same thing in Islam), not race. Your religion compels you to be an anti semitic person in the same way a neo-nazi insists that the holocaust did not happen.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Pete Waldo on Apr 16th, 2014 at 9:13pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 14th, 2014 at 11:01am:

freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2014 at 8:48am:
How about plotting? Is that familiar enough also? Muhammed slaughtered Jews for being plotting, traitorous Jews, not because they were scheming Jews. They were also treacherous.

Happy now? I wouldn't want to sound like a bigot.


You do sound like a bigot - because you are a blatant distorter.

Muhammad executed traitors and schemers. Full stop.


Perhaps you could point out the germane portions of the Quran and Hadith (not later embellishing with lies) that even indicate that the Quraish were the betrayers, rather than the betrayed.

And what about the innocent post-pubescent farm boys?
Abu Dawud 38:4390 Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi: I was among the captives of Banu Qurayza. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.

It is your popular TV clerics, your "scholars" and leaders that express the true nature and heart of Muhammadan Islam regarding Jews, not some dithering "hypocrite":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viOfDdkonu8


polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 14th, 2014 at 11:01am:
No one except you is phrasing it as traitorous and scheming jews.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Grand Duke Imam Gandalf on Apr 16th, 2014 at 10:27pm

freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2014 at 7:56pm:
You merely believe the islamic spin that excusing the slaughter and forced mass migration of Jews and blaming it all on the Jews is not anti-semitic.


To be anti-semitic I would have to justify the slaughter of jews on some stereotypical negative characteristic perceived to be innate to jews. I do not - thats why you have to keep putting words in my mouth and persist with the "scheming jew" meme, or one of its many variations - which I have never once used. I justify the execution of people for planning the destruction of the people they are pretending to be loyal to. This has nothing to do with hating jews for being jews, and is therefore not anti-semitic.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Pete Waldo on Apr 16th, 2014 at 10:47pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16th, 2014 at 10:27pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2014 at 7:56pm:
You merely believe the islamic spin that excusing the slaughter and forced mass migration of Jews and blaming it all on the Jews is not anti-semitic.


To be anti-semitic I would have to justify the slaughter of jews on some stereotypical negative characteristic perceived to be innate to jews.


No, you would simply have to be like Muhammad and his true followers.

Sahih Muslim B41, #6981 Ibn 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You will fight against the jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me); kill him. (also #6983 #6984 #6985)
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/islam_and_jews.htm


polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16th, 2014 at 10:27pm:
I do not - thats why you have to keep putting words in my mouth and persist with the "scheming jew" meme, or one of its many variations - which I have never once used. I justify the execution of people .......


You do understand that Satan has you so blinded, that you are defending the beheading execution of innocent Jewish farm boy "people" don't you?
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jesus_or_muhammad.htm#banu_qurayza


polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16th, 2014 at 10:27pm:
..... for planning the destruction of the people they are pretending to be loyal to.


Regarding the Banu Qurayza I will continue to assume you are lying (whether through intent or because you bought into a lie), unless and until you can support your empty claim through the Quran or Hadith (not some later embellishing lies). Would you please do that now before making this claim again, so that either you or I can be satisfied that at least one or two men of the Banu Qurayza did or did not do, as you repeatedly claim they did.


polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16th, 2014 at 10:27pm:
This has nothing to do with hating jews for being jews, and is therefore not anti-semitic.


So please explain this popular Islamic TV Cleric's hatred of Jews with whom you - who even rejects the significance of Mecca - would seem to disagree. Perhaps you're a true Muslim and he isn't?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viOfDdkonu8

If you would try responding to my posts rather than ignoring them, with Jesus' help you overcome Satan, the father of lies, and his stand-alone messenger Muhammad.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/index.htm

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by freediver on Apr 17th, 2014 at 9:19am

Quote:
To be anti-semitic I would have to justify the slaughter of jews on some stereotypical negative characteristic perceived to be innate to jews.


So you would never use words like traitorous, scheming, plotting, etc to justify the mass slaughter of Jews? Only a Nazi would do that, right?

In any case, why does it matter what excuse you offer? You are compelled by Islam to make excuses for Muhammed slaughtering Jews and expelling them from their own homes. Islam is inherently anti-semitic. Muhammed created a society that put Jews in a position of inferiority. Jews were only tolerated while they adopted a position of inferiority and put up with all the crap the Muslims heaped on them. If they didn't, well that was plotting wasn't it, and we all know what happens to traitorous people who just happen to be Jews (and a thousand or so of their extended family, again all Jews), don't we?

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Sprintcyclist on Apr 17th, 2014 at 10:30am



Quote:
".............But there is one culture that is alien to Australians who have, until now, welcomed all-comers... and that’s the culture of Islam.

I can already hear the loony Left screeching “racism” and “xenophobia”, but no fellas, it has nothing to do with race, it has everything to do with “culture”, a culture that will not, and has no intention to, assimilate and join in our celebration of multiculturalism.

Islam is an archaic culture embracing paedophilia, beheadings, severing of limbs, rape, incredible cruelty to animals, subjugation of women, sexual abuse of children and an innate, violent hatred of Christianity and democracy.

Everything we stand for, they stand against.

Anyone daring to challenge their beliefs is met with a death sentence in the name of their Allah.......


yes, aside from that though ................

oh yes, they are a drag on our economy

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Grand Duke Imam Gandalf on Apr 17th, 2014 at 6:25pm

freediver wrote on Apr 17th, 2014 at 9:19am:
So you would never use words like traitorous, scheming, plotting, etc to justify the mass slaughter of Jews? Only a Nazi would do that, right?


I would never use a phrase like "scheming jews". Do you understand why yet? And let it be known for the record that any use of that phrase, or any of its variations here, is entirely your invention.


freediver wrote on Apr 17th, 2014 at 9:19am:
In any case, why does it matter what excuse you offer?


What matters is that you cannot by any stretch of honesty claim that I am compelled by my religion to be an anti-semite.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by freediver on Apr 17th, 2014 at 7:09pm

Quote:
I would never use a phrase like "scheming jews". Do you understand why yet? And let it be known for the record that any use of that phrase, or any of its variations here, is entirely your invention.


Sure I understand why. You don't want to sound like a Nazi. So you use words like plotting, traitorous, schmeming etc, but leave the word Jew of the end to make it sound politically correct. It must suck for Muslims that there are such negative connotations for people who excuse the historical slaughtering of Jews with that sort of stereotyping.


Quote:
What matters is that you cannot by any stretch of honesty claim that I am compelled by my religion to be an anti-semite.


You are compelled to insist that slaughtering Jews, kicking them out of their own home, telling them to convert or die, insisting that they even know you are their prophet, preaching that one day even the rocks and trees will help you slaughter Jews etc etc is not anti-semitic. Islam compels you to believe that within a few years of turning up to Medina, the local Jews were traitors to their own city-state and it was Muhamed's job to get rid of them, any way he can. Islam compels you to insist that the downfall of so many Jews was all their fault. Islam compels you to believe that the Jews even signed up for all of this. Islam compels you to believe that Muhammed and his early followers just happened to come across one nest of traitorous Jews after another, and that none of the mistreatment of Jews had anything to do with the fact that they tended not to convert to Islam and thus made up a significant non-islamic political power base in Arabia, which Muhammed wanted all to himself. Islam compels you to wave your arms in astonishment that there are now virtually no Jews left in Arabia. Islam compels you to insist that all the anti-Jewish hostility in the Koran and Hadith has nothing to do with anti-Jewish hostility among so many modern Muslims. It's all just a big misunderstanding isn't it? Either that, or it is all the Jews fault.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Grand Duke Imam Gandalf on Apr 17th, 2014 at 8:00pm

freediver wrote on Apr 17th, 2014 at 7:09pm:
You are compelled to insist that blah blah blah


Keep putting thoughts into my head if it makes you feel better.

All I can do is keep repeating the fact that my personal beliefs are completely different to your demented idea of islam.

My religion is a religion of tolerance and non-bigotry and peace. You are of course free to ridicule this and call me a liar all you like. Become a Yadda drone and start telling everyone to google taqqiya if you think that will be constructive.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by freediver on Apr 17th, 2014 at 9:46pm

Quote:
All I can do is keep repeating the fact that my personal beliefs are completely different to your demented idea of islam.


Is there anything I have suggested you insist that you do not in fact insist?


Quote:
My religion is a religion of tolerance and non-bigotry and peace.


Is that why you trot out war as an excuse for Muhammed robbing caravans and murdering traders? Is that why you trot out "not war" as an excuse for Muhammed slaughtering 800 Jewish POWs in one day?

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Grand Duke Imam Gandalf on Apr 18th, 2014 at 8:52am

freediver wrote on Apr 17th, 2014 at 9:46pm:
Is there anything I have suggested you insist that you do not in fact insist?


Anything about my religion "compelling" me to be a racist.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by freediver on Apr 21st, 2014 at 7:01pm
Would you mind pointing out where I claimed your religion compelled you to be wacist?

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Yadda on Apr 22nd, 2014 at 12:04am

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 17th, 2014 at 8:00pm:

My religion is a religion of tolerance and non-bigotry and peace.


You are of course free to ridicule this and call me a liar all you like. Become a Yadda drone and start telling everyone to google taqqiya if you think that will be constructive.


So gandalf, as a moslem, you do NOT dislike Jews,
1/ because they are Jewish,
OR,
2/ because they are not moslems ?



You only 'dislike' Zionist Jews, because those dastardly Zionist Jews are the oppressors of the oppressed Palestinian people, right ?

hehe,   ....it is to laugh.




+++


ISLAMIC doctrine states that ALL JEWS MUST FIRST BE SLAUGHTERED - BY MOSLEMS, before they [moslems] can rule the world, and before judgement day can then come.

The never ending moslem ['Palestinian'] aggression and conflict against Israel, and Jews, is a part of that ISLAMIC paradigm.

"Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari 004.052.177



gandalf,

Is Bukhari an 'accredited' Hadith ?





Mohammed's final declaration on the status of Jews and Christians, re ISLAM;

"On his death-bed Allah's Apostle....said, "May Allah's Curse be on the Jews and the Christians....."
hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.056.660






A Study in Muslim Doctrine
"...while sincere friendship with non-Muslims is forbidden, insincere friendship - whenever beneficial to Muslims - is not."
http://www.meforum.org/2512/nidal-hasan-fort-hood-muslim-doctrine

Google,
smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"




+++


But it would be wholly unjust for any 'ignorant' person, to accuse ISLAM of encouraging religious bigotry!!!!        :P

......just ask gandalf!!!!!!           :)

Moslems are pure, and virtuous !         :P


Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Grand Duke Imam Gandalf on Apr 22nd, 2014 at 3:39pm

freediver wrote on Apr 21st, 2014 at 7:01pm:
Would you mind pointing out where I claimed your religion compelled you to be wacist?




Quote:
Islam compels you to do this. Islam compels you to be the anti-semite that Muhammed was.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1396769137/35#35

Is an anti-semite not a racist? No matter, replace "racist" with "anti-semite" then: I reject your claim that my religion compels me to be an anti-semite.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Dame Karnal on Apr 22nd, 2014 at 5:25pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22nd, 2014 at 3:39pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 21st, 2014 at 7:01pm:
Would you mind pointing out where I claimed your religion compelled you to be wacist?



Quote:
Islam compels you to do this. Islam compels you to be the anti-semite that Muhammed was.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1396769137/35#35


True, G, but that's not what FD meant. When he said Islam compells you to be an anti-semitic wacist, he meant it more like a magic spell.

As soon as you kiss that big black stone, your days as a Jew-loving peacenik are over. You've sold your soul to Muhammed - and don't you forget it!

Remember, when FD asks you to point out something he said, he doesn't mean it literally.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Grand Duke Imam Gandalf on Apr 22nd, 2014 at 6:26pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 22nd, 2014 at 5:25pm:
Remember, when FD asks you to point out something he said, he doesn't mean it literally.


;D Indeed - how silly of me.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by freediver on Apr 22nd, 2014 at 9:38pm

Quote:
Is an anti-semite not a racist? No matter, replace "racist" with "anti-semite" then: I reject your claim that my religion compels me to be an anti-semite.


Well I'm glad we got that sorted out. I was getting sick of explaining to you that Muhammed slaughtered Jews for political and religious reasons.

Is this anti-semitic?

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews. 

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Grand Duke Imam Gandalf on Apr 22nd, 2014 at 9:53pm
Do you think my religion "compels" me to hate jews because of that hadith FD?

I'm so glad I have FD here telling me what are and what are not my own personal beliefs.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by freediver on Apr 22nd, 2014 at 9:56pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22nd, 2014 at 9:53pm:
Do you think my religion "compels" me to hate jews because of that hadith FD?

I'm so glad I have FD here telling me what are and what are not my own personal beliefs.


Let's start with what you think of it, before we get into what I think about what you think about what I think about it.

Is it anti-semitic?

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Grand Duke Imam Gandalf on Apr 22nd, 2014 at 10:07pm
Or a better question - is it authentic?

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by freediver on Apr 22nd, 2014 at 10:10pm
Do you think it is a fake?

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Grand Duke Imam Gandalf on Apr 22nd, 2014 at 10:21pm
I don't know.

What I do know though is that my religion does not compel me to be anti-semitic.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Dame Karnal on Apr 23rd, 2014 at 1:07am
Answer the question!

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by freediver on Apr 23rd, 2014 at 6:44pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22nd, 2014 at 10:21pm:
I don't know.

What I do know though is that my religion does not compel me to be anti-semitic.


If you don't know whether these statements are part of your religion, how can you be so sure about Islam's anti-semitism?

Is this going to be like the time you insisted that Muhammed did not have sex with his own sex slaves?

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Grand Duke Imam Gandalf on Apr 23rd, 2014 at 7:31pm

freediver wrote on Apr 23rd, 2014 at 6:44pm:
If you don't know whether these statements are part of your religion


Thats right FD. Ahadeeth are probably the subject of the most debate within islam. Apart from a very small "core" of ahadeeth that are universally agreed to be authentic, everything else is disputed. This hadeeth falls into the latter category.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by freediver on Apr 23rd, 2014 at 7:36pm
Sounds convenient. Even wishy washy.

Is it common to get so many of the early Muslims reporting the same thing?

http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=41&translator=2&number=6980

6980

      Thaur b. Zaid has narrated this hadith with the same chain of transmitters. 

6981

      Ibn 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You will fight against the Jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me) ; kill him. 

6982

      Ubaidullah has reported this hadith with this chain of transmitters (and the Words are):" There is a Jew behind me." 

6983

      Abdullah b. 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You and the Jews would fight against one another until a stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; come and kill him. 

6984

      Abdullah b. 'Umar reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: The Jews will fight against you and you will gain victory over them until the stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; kill him. 

6985

      Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews. 

6986

      Jabir b. Samura reported: I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Before the Last Hour there would be many liars, and there is an addition in the badith transmitted on the authority of Abu Ahwas of these words:" I said to him: Did you hear it from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)? He said: Yes." 

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Caliph adamant on Apr 24th, 2014 at 8:08pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 7th, 2014 at 8:18am:
Pickering    ;D


Greg with his Pecker ;D ;D :o :o :o :o :o

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by austranger on Apr 24th, 2014 at 9:23pm
I don't lay claim to any great knowledge or wisdom on Islam so I'd like to ask a question, or two.
Wahhabi.
I have heard that under an arrangement with the House of Saud the clerics of this sect in Saudi Arabia are given a significant percentage of the oil revenue, is this true?
As a part of that information is the claim that they use this money to found and support Islamic schools, madrashas(?), across the world, preaching their extreme form of Islam, is that true?
If these things are true then it would seem we have them to thank for the extremism and terrorism we are seeing world-wide, is that a reasonable conclusion?
I ask because I DON'T know, but would like to.
An apparently logical follow-on from these things, if true, would be that the West needs to confront these problems at source, Saudi Arabia, and yet no-one even seems to be talking about that?

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Grand Duke Imam Gandalf on Apr 24th, 2014 at 10:36pm

austranger wrote on Apr 24th, 2014 at 9:23pm:
I don't lay claim to any great knowledge or wisdom on Islam so I'd like to ask a question, or two.
Wahhabi.
I have heard that under an arrangement with the House of Saud the clerics of this sect in Saudi Arabia are given a significant percentage of the oil revenue, is this true?
As a part of that information is the claim that they use this money to found and support Islamic schools, madrashas(?), across the world, preaching their extreme form of Islam, is that true?
If these things are true then it would seem we have them to thank for the extremism and terrorism we are seeing world-wide, is that a reasonable conclusion?
I ask because I DON'T know, but would like to.
An apparently logical follow-on from these things, if true, would be that the West needs to confront these problems at source, Saudi Arabia, and yet no-one even seems to be talking about that?


Hi austranger - and thanks for the questions which are extremely pertinent.

In my opinion - yes much of the world's islamic terrorism stems from wahabist ideology that comes from Saudi Arabia. Most alarmingly in recent years has been the very deliberate exporting of terrorists by House Saud into Syria - done as part of a proxy war against Iran. These terrorists have now spread into Iraq, where they currently control large swathes of the sunni north. We can only guess at the threat to the west these Saudi exports will be in coming years.

As to the crux of your point - yes absolutely, the west should be confronting this threat at its source - ie Saudi Arabia. Currently though, the US apologises for Saudi atrocities at every step of the way.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Soren on Apr 24th, 2014 at 10:44pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 24th, 2014 at 10:36pm:
As to the crux of your point - yes absolutely, the west should be confronting this threat at its source - ie Saudi Arabia. Currently though, the US apologises for Saudi atrocities at every step of the way.



Why don't the 'vast majority of law-abiding, peaceful Muslims' confront it? Are they scared/opportunistic?
I think so.

Why is it up to the West to sort out Islam's internal mess?


If it's a problem, face it, confront it, fix it.

Don't make your cowardice/apathy/opportunism the West's problem.




Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by austranger on Apr 24th, 2014 at 10:54pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 24th, 2014 at 10:36pm:

austranger wrote on Apr 24th, 2014 at 9:23pm:
I don't lay claim to any great knowledge or wisdom on Islam so I'd like to ask a question, or two.
Wahhabi.
I have heard that under an arrangement with the House of Saud the clerics of this sect in Saudi Arabia are given a significant percentage of the oil revenue, is this true?
As a part of that information is the claim that they use this money to found and support Islamic schools, madrashas(?), across the world, preaching their extreme form of Islam, is that true?
If these things are true then it would seem we have them to thank for the extremism and terrorism we are seeing world-wide, is that a reasonable conclusion?
I ask because I DON'T know, but would like to.
An apparently logical follow-on from these things, if true, would be that the West needs to confront these problems at source, Saudi Arabia, and yet no-one even seems to be talking about that?


Hi austranger - and thanks for the questions which are extremely pertinent.

In my opinion - yes much of the world's islamic terrorism stems from wahabist ideology that comes from Saudi Arabia. Most alarmingly in recent years has been the very deliberate exporting of terrorists by House Saud into Syria - done as part of a proxy war against Iran. These terrorists have now spread into Iraq, where they currently control large swathes of the sunni north. We can only guess at the threat to the west these Saudi exports will be in coming years.

As to the crux of your point - yes absolutely, the west should be confronting this threat at its source - ie Saudi Arabia. Currently though, the US apologises for Saudi atrocities at every step of the way.


It seems to me that it's also the case that the West's reaction of judging ALL Muslims(?) by the extremists activities has lead to a radicalisation of both the Sunni's and Shiítes as well, or perhaps their Imams are trying to compete with the Wahhabi's for the attention of Islamic Youth, or a bit of both perhaps?
Do you know how much effect this is having here in Oz, if any?
Also, I think an Imam in Iran(?) once called the USA the Great Whore, or words to that effect, and offhand I'd say that was a pretty fair description, especially considering their dealings with Saudi Arabia?

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Yadda on Apr 24th, 2014 at 11:05pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 24th, 2014 at 10:36pm:

As to the crux of your point - yes absolutely, the west should be confronting this threat at its source - ie Saudi Arabia.

Currently though, the US apologises for Saudi atrocities at every step of the way.



Yes, the Western 'hemisphere' should be seen to be interfering in Saudi Arabia internal politics,   ....because real moslems, you know, the moderate tolerant, peaceful, moslems, would all be soooooo, soooooo, grateful to us infidels.

NOT.





ISLAM [moslems] should be left to fester 'in its own juices', imo.

Any aid we [the Western 'hemisphere' nations] could provide to moslem political groups or regimes, can only draw us into conflicts which we DO want to avoid, and which we should be trying to avoid!

Getting our [non-ISLAMIC] culture involved, entangled, within the machinations of ISLAMIC global politics can only be destructive to our own interests - interests which have no alignment with the interests of corrupt localised ISLAMIC political ambitions.

ISLAM is a deeply corrupting influence upon all men who would seek to exploit its political methods and ambitions, imo.

Human beings should be running aways from ISLAM at 100 mph!!!




Seriously....


Quote:
A simple definition of SANITY/INSANITY.



Typically, an unrestrained sane person will act in ways which are harmless to others, and in ways which are creative, and productive [for himself, others, and society].

And typically, and conversely, an unrestrained INSANE person will act in ways which are harmful and destructive to himself, and, or, others around him.




Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by austranger on Apr 24th, 2014 at 11:38pm
As I see it Islam today is going through something like the Christian churches went through in the Middle Ages and onwards, the Inquisition, Reformation etc etc.
It's just our bad luck that we're "living in interesting times", alla the old Chinese curse.
The "Global Village" brings that home to all of us instead of having somewhere to escape it's worst extremes though.
We can only hope they achieve some sort of stabilsation as a more peaceful religion sooner rather than later.

Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by Yadda on Apr 25th, 2014 at 12:10am

austranger wrote on Apr 24th, 2014 at 11:38pm:
As I see it Islam today is going through something like the Christian churches went through in the Middle Ages and onwards, the Inquisition, Reformation etc etc.
It's just our bad luck that we're "living in interesting times", alla the old Chinese curse.
The "Global Village" brings that home to all of us instead of having somewhere to escape it's worst extremes though.

We can only hope they achieve some sort of stabilsation as a more peaceful religion sooner rather than later.



Dream about it.       ;D

'ISLAM is peace, and, political stabilisation.'

;D




ISLAMIC groups 'lawfully' utilise extreme violence and political oppression as means to gain legitimacy.

ISLAM regimes also 'lawfully' utilise extreme violence and political oppression to maintain their authority and legitimacy.

Extreme violence and political oppression is the modus operandi of the religious moslem i.e. of the 'rightly guided' moslem.




ISLAMIC LAW....
"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06



"Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).
And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!"
Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan."
Koran 4.74-76i

somewhere else on ozpol....

Quote:
The DOCTRINALLY established moslem war strategy when overcoming an old regime [and whether it was an 'ill-favoured' moslem regime, or, and infidel regime, it is ALWAYS deemed by the new moslem victors to have been un-ISLAMIC    e.g. Syria today, fighting the rebels, both sides claim to be the 'rightly guided' moslems] is to use terror and violence, to consolidate their gains.

And the Koran itself, and other ISLAMIC 'religious' texts do counsel such a path.


POINT #1,
"It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land....."
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/008.qmt.html#008.067

Koran [8:67 above] meaning here, first moslems should beleaguer and slaughter their enemies in the land, to terrorise, to cower them.

And then later, moslems will more easily be able to defeat, and enslave a pliant, fearful enemy people.

In 'promoting' ISLAM to the whole earth, all REAL moslems understand, that terror is BOTH, the objective, and the method!

i.e.
#1,
ISLAMIC authority [government] is gained legitimately through the use of terror.

#2,
And, it is legitimate to maintain ISLAMIC authority through the use of terror.


POINT #2,
Allah's Apostle said,
"I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy)...."
hadith/bukhari #004.052.220

".....I have been given superiority......; I have been helped by terror (in the hearts of enemies):....."
hadithsunnah/muslim/ #004.1062


Title: Re: Again voicing the concerns of the Silent Majority
Post by austranger on Apr 25th, 2014 at 12:52am
Sorry Yadda, and please take no offense, but quoting selectively from the Q'ran doesn't impress me any more than Christians doing the same from the Bible. Anyone sane knows that it's in the interpretation and practice of those passages that today's truth is to be found. Islam is like any human religion or belief system, there's always grey areas and divisions in interpretation, and change too, that's human nature. I ask the questions I do to learn from Muslims, hopefully, there's already endless mud-slinging around if that was all I wanted. It's because of that fact that I seek knowledge, to get under propaganda from BOTH sides and attempt to read between the lines if you will.

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