Quote:

Burma Census Wielded Against Rohingya By Lindsay Murdoch, Fairfax SE Asia Correspondent Wednesday, April 2, 2014 BANGKOK: A partly Australian-funded census has come under fire for discriminating against the Rohingya, a Muslim ethnic group at the heart of recent unrest in Burma (Myanmar). Mob violence by nationalist Buddhists has blocked aid reaching the Rohingya in overcrowded refugee camps. The United Nations agency conducting the first census in the country in 30 years says it is ''deeply concerned'' that the Rohingya, some of whom have lived in Myanmar for centuries, will be prevented from self-identifying as an ethnic group, violating international census standards.

read more...

"Christians in Northwest Burma Cling to Faith Despite War, Persecution
Monday, March 17th, 2014

The Kachin people of Northern Burma are believed to be more than 90% Christian. For decades, they have been in a struggle for independence from the military dictatorship of Myanmar. As a part of that conflict, Christian Kachin have been targeted because of their faith. In the last major military assault, more than 60 churches were reportedly burned to the ground. As one observer points out in this article, Buddhist temples are left untouched."

Many more cited:
http://www.persecution.org/category/countries/asia/myanmar/

Bing search - muslim persecution of buddhists
http://www.bing.com/search?q=muslim+persecution+of+buddhists&qs=n&form=QBRE&pq=muslim+persecution+of+buddhists&sc=1-31&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=44db3b6f2cdb459bb9da0297ea42492e

Muslim persecution of Buddhists in Myanmar:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Buddhists#Myanmar

"The violence and long lasted tention was reignited on the 28th of May 2012, It was reported that daughter of U Hla Tin, of Thabyechaung Village named Ma Thida Htwe aged 27 was brutally raped then killed by three Muslim men. These men were later arrested.[54][55][56] On March 20, 2013, at about 9 in the morning U Khin Maung Win and Daw Aye Aye Naing came to New Weint Sein gold shop (Muslim-owned) to sell their gold comb. The Bangali-Muslim shop-owner and her elder sister slapped the Rakhine Buddhist couple. The Rohingya Muslim husband of the shop-owner Htun Htun Oo (a) Ar-shid and his employee Nyi Nyi came in and started hitting U Khin Maung Win with timber 2x4 pieces. They both were yelling out that the Rakhine Buddhist couple and their children were trying to rob their gold shop. As their Muslim relatives from other Rohingya gold shops nearby joined the brutal attack and bullied on the Rakhine family the bystanders started shouting at them to stop such unjust violence and they then called the police.[57]

At that day, a Buddhist monk from Hanzar village of One-dwin township had come into the Meiktila town as a passenger on a motorbike and they were unknowingly riding through the Da-hart-tan Muslim ward the biggest Muslim quarters in Meiktila. Already-agitated Muslims saw the Buddhist monk and chased the motorbike and managed to strike the Buddhist monk from behind with a sword and he fell to the ground from his pillion-riding position on the motorbike. He had a long deep gash on back of his head just above his left ear. Muslim mobs forcefully took off his robe and brutally dragged the direly-wounded Buddhist monk into the nearby Myo-ma Mosque. Once inside the mosque they poured acid and petrol all over the wounded Buddhist monk and burned him alive.[58] Burmese-Buddhist workers, Selayang in Malaysia were killed by Bengali-Muslims On May 30, 2013[59]"

http://islamicpersecution.wordpress.com/category/persecution-of-buddhists/

"Afghanistan: a nation where converts to Buddhism and Christianity face death"
http://islamicpersecution.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/afghanistan-a-nation-where-converts-to-buddhism-and-christianity-face-death/

"Islamic terrorists kill more Buddhists in Southern Thailand"
http://islamicpersecution.wordpress.com/2011/01/26/islamic-terrorists-kill-more-buddhists-in-southern-thailand/

"Buddhists Fear to Walk in Southern Thailand"
http://islamicpersecution.wordpress.com/2010/05/22/buddhists-fear-to-walk-in-southern-thailand/

"Islamic militants target Buddhists in Thailand "
http://islamicpersecution.wordpress.com/2010/05/21/islamic-militants-target-buddhists-in-thailand/

"Bangladesh and Pakistan: where minorities fear to walk "
http://islamicpersecution.wordpress.com/2010/08/06/bangladesh-and-pakistan-where-minorities-fear-to-walk/

"Islam: the ongoing Sunni Islamic inquisition"
http://islamicpersecution.wordpress.com/2011/06/30/islam-the-ongoing-sunni-islamic-inquisition/

"Islamic inquisition in Somalia and Southern Thailand"
http://islamicpersecution.wordpress.com/2011/02/16/islamic-inquisition-in-somalia-and-southern-thailand/

And more germane regarding forum Muslims:
"Islamic liberalism is a million times more dangerous than radical Islam"
http://islamicpersecution.wordpress.com/2011/06/09/islamic-liberalism-is-a-million-times-more-dangerous-than-radical-islam/

Pete Waldo wrote on Apr 6^th, 2014 at 11:21pm:

Muslim persecution of Buddhists in Myanmar:

So under the heading "persecution of Buddhists in Myanmar", we have a grand total of two (albeit gruesome) murders and one assault.

Come on Pete, surely even you couldn't pass that off as "persecution of Buddhists" with a straight face - surely?

It is particularly spineless to bring up these 3 incidents as some attempt to answer the institutionalised persecution and denial of rights of the Rohingya - of which this latest census episode is just another in a long line of systematic persecution of these people.

And I'm not even mentioning the two massacres of Rohingya of between 100-200 people in 2001 and 2012, both accompanied by mass expulsions of Rohingya and the destruction of their homes.

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 6^th, 2014 at 10:20pm:

Quote: Burma Census Wielded Against Rohingya By Lindsay Murdoch, Fairfax SE Asia Correspondent Wednesday, April 2, 2014 BANGKOK: A partly Australian-funded census has come under fire for discriminating against the Rohingya, a Muslim ethnic group at the heart of recent unrest in Burma (Myanmar). Mob violence by nationalist Buddhists has blocked aid reaching the Rohingya in overcrowded refugee camps. The United Nations agency conducting the first census in the country in 30 years says it is ''deeply concerned'' that the Rohingya, some of whom have lived in Myanmar for centuries, will be prevented from self-identifying as an ethnic group, violating international census standards. read more...

Let me guess. You were off onto the internet to find some examples of bad Muslims to fight, when you stumbled across this little gem. Realising that TC had mysteriously omitted it, you felt compelled to post it yourself.

Whats that all about FD? That was entirely un-called for. I have posted far more topics on "bad muslims" if you bothered to check.

The Rohingya issue has always been close to my heart, and deserves some much needed attention.

Do you have anything to say about the subject matter, or are you just going to focus on trolling individual posters?

Are they actually forbidden from self-identifying, like Malaysian apostates, or did some bureaucrat simply forget to put their religion on a survey?

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 8:21pm:

Are they actually forbidden from self-identifying, like Malaysian apostates, or did some bureaucrat simply forget to put their religion on a survey?

Deflecting again FD?

I was just trying to get Gandy to notice what he posted.

Gandy noticed what he posted. FD is pretending to be obtuse in order to derail this important topic (aka trolling).

From the United Nations:


Quote:

GENEVA (7 April 2014) – The United Nations Special Rapporteur on the human rights situation in Myanmar, Tomás Ojea Quintana, today pressed the alarm bell on the further deterioration of the human rights situation in Rakhine State. “Recent developments in Rakhine State are the latest in a long history of discrimination and persecution against the Rohingya community which could amount to crimes against humanity.” He warned that the evacuation of aid workers, following the recent attacks on UN and NGO premises in Sittwe, “will only increase the vulnerability of this community”. “These workers were in Rakhine State providing essential life-saving support, including health services, water and food to internally displaced persons, isolated villages, and other affected communities,” he explained. “The withdrawal of these workers will have severe consequences on the enjoyment of fundamental human rights, including the right to life.”

Quote:

National census – further concerns The Special Rapporteur also expressed concern about the ongoing census in Myanmar: “The Government’s decision against self-identification of the Rohingya for the census is not in compliance with international human rights standards,” he stressed. Self-identification for the Rohingya has been at the root of some protests in the past in Rakhine State that led to violence and human rights violations and abuses for which there is yet to be accountability. “The ongoing census risks this cycle repeating itself,” the expert said. “Self-identification should constitute a pillar of the collection of ethnically disaggregated data. It is related to respect for the rights of individuals to assert their own identity,” Mr. Ojea Quintana stated. “To deny self-identification is therefore a violation of human rights.”

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=14476&LangID=E

You are a hypocrite Gandalf.


polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 10:26am:

freediver wrote on Jan 14th, 2014 at 8:41pm: Putting apostates into rehabilitation camps is not living in harmony. It is naked, vulgar oppression, and only a Muslim would even think to spin it any other way. The number of actual rehabilitation camp cases can be counted on one hand. The fact is, as vulgar as they are, they only come up in cases where the person is attempting to "officialize" their apostasy - either by changing their identity card, or marrying a non-muslim - and to be clear, the vast majority of those cases do not result in rehabilitation camps. The reality is, it is a system that is easy to get around - get your husband to sign a paper saying they are muslim, or simply don't drag it through the courts insisting on an identity change. I'm not defending the system, but it is hardly "naked, vulgar oppression" in the scheme of things. And just to clarify, most apostates don't actually go to rehabilitation camps, they simply have their application to be legally recognised as a non-muslim rejected.

Ah yes, I keep forgetting, its all about me. Like I said - attempting to derail this important topic. You will of course succeed - as you always do.

hypocrisy
hɪˈpɒkrɪsi/
noun
noun: hypocrisy; plural noun: hypocrisies

    1.
    the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case.

claiming to oppose human rights abuses only to belittle an actual case of human rights abuse by trolling a discussion on it, is a good example of hypocrisy.

Do you actually have an opinion on the subject FD? Do you think its important to speak out against this case of systematic abuse? Are you concerned by the possibility of yet another massacre of Rohingya?

Google: Taqiyya.

Israeli Jews are also denied the right to officially change their religion. FD won't be concerned at that though.


Proselytising to Jews is forbidden in Israel. Those who convert away from Judaism face trials such as forced mental health evaluations and having their children taken away from them.


Quote:

“They are giving me the runaround, sending me back and forth from office to office. They made me see a psychiatrist, to ‘make sure I wasn’t brainwashed.’ They did everything so that I would despair and return to Judaism,” one convert related. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3274735,00.html

Jews are not allowed to intermarry in Israel.

Non-Jewish holy sites are often bulldozed or even taken over by Jews to be run as synagogues.'

There are restrictions on where non-Jews can live in Israeli-occupied areas.

Muslims face restriction on visiting the most important mosque under Israeli-occupation.

Israel does not even recognise the conversion to Judaism by any person unless it is conducted by an Orthodox rabbi.

Women in Israel cannot get a divorce without their husband's approval.

Jewish women are prohibited from praying at Judaism's most holy site.

Israel has gender segregated public buses and sidewalks in certain areas.

True Colours wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 10:39pm:

Jews are not allowed to intermarry in Israel.

Bollocks.

True Colours wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 10:39pm:

Non-Jewish holy sites are often bulldozed or even taken over by Jews to be run as synagogues.' There are restrictions on where non-Jews can live in Israeli-occupied areas. Muslims face restriction on visiting the most important mosque under Israeli-occupation. Israel does not even recognise the conversion to Judaism by any person unless it is conducted by an Orthodox rabbi. Women in Israel cannot get a divorce without their husband's approval. Jewish women are prohibited from praying at Judaism's most holy site. Israel has gender segregated public buses and sidewalks in certain areas.

So?? They are Jews. What do you want?

Soren wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 11:31pm:

True Colours wrote on Apr 9th, 2014 at 10:39pm: Jews are not allowed to intermarry in Israel. Bollocks.

I think he means underage defacto marriage, old chap.

You know, the preferred union of your Islamist fanatic.

Soren wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 11:31pm:

True Colours wrote on Apr 9th, 2014 at 10:39pm: Jews are not allowed to intermarry in Israel. Bollocks.

Quote:

...Since the state does not permit civil marriages, interfaith marriages, or marriages performed by non-Orthodox rabbis or unrecognized religious authorities, many marriages must take place outside the country in order to be legally recognized. This provision restricts the ability of individuals to choose their own religious authorities and prevents several hundred thousand Israeli citizens from marrying within the country. A 2010 law allows for civil registration of married couples only if both partners are recognized as being of “no religion,” which applies to a few dozen marriages each year.... http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/religiousfreedom/index.htm#wrapper

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 10:01pm:

Ah yes, I keep forgetting, its all about me. Like I said - attempting to derail this important topic. You will of course succeed - as you always do. hypocrisy hɪˈpɒkrɪsi/ noun noun: hypocrisy; plural noun: hypocrisies     1.     the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case. claiming to oppose human rights abuses only to belittle an actual case of human rights abuse by trolling a discussion on it, is a good example of hypocrisy. Do you actually have an opinion on the subject FD? Do you think its important to speak out against this case of systematic abuse? Are you concerned by the possibility of yet another massacre of Rohingya?

I think the actual issue is important. You managed to introduce it in the most trivial manner possible. I had to double check to make sure it was actually you that posted it and not TC. And I think you are a hypocrite. You made it about yourself. You said this issue is close to your heart and deserves more attention, but when Muslims do it to non-Muslims you offer endless excuses. In the case of Malaysia, you can hardly pretend it is a distant issue for you, but still you offer endless excuses for the Malaysians and insist it is not important and does not need attention. Why the dramatic difference? I think it is because you do not actually value human rights (see, there I go with those wishy washy western liberal values again). You probably identify with these people by religion, race, or similar and try to couch it in terms of freedom and human rights in order to make your message more palatable. It is just a facade, and it is crumbling. Muslims cry victim at every opportunity, demand human rights and freedom for Muslims, but as soon as it comes to the rights and freedoms of non-Muslims, it suddenly turns into wishy washy western liberal morals that we are cynically exploiting to make Muslims look bad, as if they need any help. Suddenly freedom makes no sense and human rights go to the bottom of your list of priorities.

Karnal wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 10:03pm:

Google: Taqiyya.

Do not exert yourself.

Here ya go, Karnal.



WHY, DO MOSLEMS LIE TO US ???

Taqiyya
“Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible..., and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. ...One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…”
google







+++



Dictionary;
terrorist = = a person who uses violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.


"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..."
Koran 2.193


"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."
hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196







ISLAM is a virtuous philosophy ?

That is what moslems insistently claim.

But it is not credible for any one who joins himself to ISLAM to claim, that ISLAM is intrinsically 'moderate' or begin, or that individual moslems themselves are benign, in their true intentions, towards persons who are outside of his [the moslem] 'camp' [when ISLAM places an obligation upon every moslem, of 'religious' enmity towards those who are not moslems.].

If any person makes a claim that ISLAM is a peace loving and virtuous philosophy, such a person is simply engaging in ISLAMIC lying and ISLAMIC deceit - so as to protect and to shield their real intentions from open scrutiny and deserved censure, imo.



ISLAM is a violent and extreme [terrorist] philosophy which sanctions and encourages the use of intimidation and extreme violence in the pursuit of [ISLAM's] political aims.

And ISLAM is a philosophy which also encourages deception and lying to achieve political advancement, for the moslem who is 'forced' to live among those who are not moslems.


CONSIDER;
Wherever in the world moslems have political authority [over those who are not moslems], ISLAM, has demonstrated itself to be a vicious and violent philosophy entity [towards all those who offer legitimate criticism of ISLAM's political 'form' and methods, and, towards those individuals who are not moslems].




Google;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit


How Taqiyya Alters Islams Rules of War
http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war

Yadda why do you persist with the taqqiya bs?

Taqqiyya is not an Islamic practice. Taqqiyya was invented by the Shi-ite cult's ayatollahs in Iran.

For you to rave on about taqqiya here is like a non-Christian posting about polygamy on a Christianity forum because some weird Mormons practice it in Utah.

It seems that you are the deceiver for trying to portray it as an Islamic practice when it is not.

True Colours wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 10:54am:

Yadda why do you persist with the taqqiya bs? Taqqiyya is not an Islamic practice. Taqqiyya was invented by the Shi-ite cult's ayatollahs in Iran. For you to rave on about taqqiya here is like a non-Christian posting about polygamy on a Christianity forum because some weird Mormons practice it in Utah. It seems that you are the deceiver for trying to portray it as an Islamic practice when it is not.

That's not very tolerant, True. Surely Y is free to follow the succession of Ali.

There is no god but Gud.

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 8:48am:

I think the actual issue is important. You managed to introduce it in the most trivial manner possible.

How is it trivial? If Rohingya enjoyed equality in their own country, and had not been massacred in their hundreds on several occasions and systematically driven out of their homes and had them destroyed - then this sort of dehumanising tactic might be somewhere approaching trivial - as opposed to being an incredibly sinister portent to more massacres and even genocide.


freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 8:48am:

You made it about yourself.

No FD - you made it about me in your first reply. Find me a single reference in my posts to "me" or "I" before you attempted to derail this thread into a 'drag gandalf through the mud' exercise. Don't be such a horrible liar.


freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 8:48am:

In the case of Malaysia

In the case of Malaysia, apostates are not being massacred in their hundreds and having their houses burned down by government sanctioned rioters. How dare you try and find some moral equivalence between the two.

Quote:

Taqqiyya is not an Islamic practice. Taqqiyya was invented by the Shi-ite cult's ayatollahs in Iran.

Not according to Abu. Not sure if he labelled it taqiyya, but he listed examples of where Muslims are permitted to lie. In one of his classic episodes, he said Muslims are permitted to lie in the context of war, and also that the west has been waging war on the Muslim words for over a century. More recently, a Muslim posted here the situations where lying is permitted. It seemed to cover a very broad range of scenarios, from placating your wife to slaughtering the infidel.


Quote:

How is it trivial?

You made it trivial by introducing it as a UN survey that left their group off the list.


Quote:

How dare you try and find some moral equivalence between the two.

You made it about the right to self identify. Not sure why you deliberately chose an angle that makes you as hypocritical as possible.

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 12:14pm:

You made it trivial by introducing it as a UN survey that left their group off the list.

It was an interesting piece of news that has recently come up. Thats why I chose to post it. I think it is a dangerous development in the context of the deteriorating situation for the Rhohingya, and not the least bit trivial - and the UN Rapporteur agrees:


Quote:

The Special Rapporteur also expressed concern about the ongoing census in Myanmar: “The Government’s decision against self-identification of the Rohingya for the census is not in compliance with international human rights standards,” he stressed. Self-identification for the Rohingya has been at the root of some protests in the past in Rakhine State that led to violence and human rights violations and abuses for which there is yet to be accountability. “The ongoing census risks this cycle repeating itself,” the expert said.

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 12:14pm:

You made it about the right to self identify. Not sure why you deliberately chose an angle that makes you as hypocritical as possible.

Well you are entitled to your little fantasy about me being a cheerleader for apostasy laws in Malaysia. In any case, your goal here was to derail this thread and ensure nothing about the subject is discussed. So congratulations, mission accomplished - again.

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 12:14pm:

Quote: Taqqiyya is not an Islamic practice. Taqqiyya was invented by the Shi-ite cult's ayatollahs in Iran. Not according to Abu.

Ah.

True Colours wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 10:54am:

Yadda why do you persist with the taqqiya bs? Taqqiyya is not an Islamic practice. Taqqiyya was invented by the Shi-ite cult's ayatollahs in Iran.

LIAR.




True Colours,

You come into this forum, and you seek to assure those here, who you believe are uninformed about ISLAM practices, that only Shi-ites use/engage in, Taqqiyya.

But that claim, in itself, is a Sunni lie, and it is a complete deception.

Your claim is just a bare faced deceit.



PROOF....

As evidenced by the blatant and deceitful and lying claims, that have been made by, for example,
the - Sunni - Muslim Council of Britain....





Quote:

A body representing British 'mainstream' moslems, The Muslim Council of Britain, declares on its website, that ISLAM is a philosophy which condemns extremism and violence.... [quote] Rejecting Terror Thursday, 11 April 2013 Muslims everywhere consider all acts of terrorism that aims to murder and maim innocent human beings utterly reprehensible and abhorrent. There is no theological basis whatsoever for such acts in our faith. The very meaning of the word 'Islam' is peace. It rejects terror and promotes peace and harmony.

http://www.mcb.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2307:mcbnewstemplate&catid=82:mcb-news
http://www.mcb.org.uk/article_detail.php?article=announcement-656

[/quote]





'ISLAM IS PEACE' "AND REJECTS TERROR" - DECLARES THE BODY THAT REPRESENTS ALL BRITISH SUNNI 'MAINSTREAM' MOSLEM COMMUNITIES....


FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED - ISLAM'S PROPHET AND ARGUABLY, THE AUTHOR OF ALL OF ISLAM'S THEOLOGY

Allah's Apostle said,
"I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy)...."
hadith/bukhari #004.052.220

".....I have been given superiority......; I have been helped by terror (in the hearts of enemies):....."
hadithsunnah/muslim/ #004.1062




ISLAMIC law....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."





FROM THE SUNNA OF MOHAMMED

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260




"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29




+++


There are many more examples of Sunnis using blatant lying and deceit - when they, Sunnis, speak to those who are not moslems.



So True Colours, you can see that,

1/ you are a liar,
AND,
2/ all moslems [both Shiites and Sunnis] are SHAMELESS, barefaced, liars and deceivers - who do engage in Taqqiya.

Quote:

Well you are entitled to your little fantasy about me being a cheerleader for apostasy laws in Malaysia.

It was about your lengthy attempt to explain away as unimportant Malaysia's refusal to allow ethnic Malays to self identify as non-Muslim, and to imprison them in "rehabilitation camps" if they try. I even quoted it for you. It is pretty much the exact opposite of the views you have expressed in this thread, and the only thing that has changed is that Muslims are the victims rather than the perpetrator. It is textbook hypocrisy, and if I have to derail a thread to get this through to you, then that is a price I am willing to pay.


Quote:

In any case, your goal here was to derail this thread and ensure nothing about the subject is discussed.

We all agree that it is bad. I personally believe that addressing the hypocrisy of Muslims is the best way forward. I doubt the Hindus doing this are in any way reassured by the hypocrisy of Muslims like you. They no doubt expect, not entirely irrationally, that Muslims are either oppressed or the oppressors. There aren't exactly a lot of examples of the middle ground. If Muslims started to actually care about freedom and human rights when it is fellow Muslims, and in particular Muslims of the same faction, who are the perpetrators rather than the victims, then most of the world's problems would be solved overnight. Basically, if they did what you say you do rather than what you actually do here.

True Colours wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 10:54am:

Yadda why do you persist with the taqqiya bs? Taqqiyya is not an Islamic practice. Taqqiyya was invented by the Shi-ite cult's ayatollahs in Iran.

Quote:

A body representing British 'mainstream' moslems, The Muslim Council of Britain, declares on its website, that ISLAM is a philosophy which condemns extremism and violence.... [quote] Rejecting Terror Thursday, 11 April 2013 Muslims everywhere consider all acts of terrorism that aims to murder and maim innocent human beings utterly reprehensible and abhorrent. There is no theological basis whatsoever for such acts in our faith. The very meaning of the word 'Islam' is peace. It rejects terror and promotes peace and harmony.

http://www.mcb.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2307:mcbnewstemplate&catid=82:mcb-news
http://www.mcb.org.uk/article_detail.php?article=announcement-656

[/quote]



QUESTION;

How can we tell if a moslem is lying ?


ANSWER;

Hmmmmm, let me think........

True Colours wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 10:54am:

Yadda why do you persist with the taqqiya bs? Taqqiyya is not an Islamic practice. Taqqiyya was invented by the Shi-ite cult's ayatollahs in Iran.

It is.

It is.

It is.

Yadda wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 6:18pm:

True Colours wrote on Apr 10th, 2014 at 10:54am: Yadda why do you persist with the taqqiya bs? Taqqiyya is not an Islamic practice. Taqqiyya was invented by the Shi-ite cult's ayatollahs in Iran. It is. It is. It is.

Is it?

You know, you really could have saved yourself the trouble of all those posts, Y, and just said that it is.

Three times.

FD Has offered us the comprehensive proof of Abu, so it simply must be true.

With your repetition and FD’s Abu proof, we’ve got the Muselman backed into a corner. It just feels like something is missing - but what?

Ah, of course - the old boy’s never-ever post.

It is it is it is. Abu said so. Always, absolutely, never ever.

Sleep well, habibis. Western civilization is in safe hands.

Karnal wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:27pm:

Is it? You know, you really could have saved yourself the trouble of all those posts, Y, and just said that it is. Three times. FD Has offered us the comprehensive proof of Abu, so it simply must be true. With your repetition and FD’s Abu proof, we’ve got the Muselman backed into a corner. It just feels like something is missing - but what? Ah, of course - the old boy’s never-ever post. It is it is it is. Abu said so. Always, absolutely, never ever. Sleep well, habibis. Western civilization is in safe hands.

It is it is it is it is it is it is it is it is it is.




Karnal,

Excuse me.

What is it, that you are banging on about ?

O yes, it is.         ....Taqiyya.

ISLAM is peace, Allah Akbar!





http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4258/uk-jihadists-charity-workers

Quote:

The British media continues to label British Islamist volunteers who support jihadist movements in Syria as "charity workers."

No Taqiyya there!

Eh !




Taqiyya does not exist.

Moslems do not lie to us.

Moslems are not trying to destroy our society.

And Moslems love infidels and freedom, honest!          :P   




And lastly, ISLAM is peace, Allah Akbar!

Karnal wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:27pm:

With your repetition and FD’s Abu proof, we’ve got the Muselman backed into a corner. It just feels like something is missing - but what? Ah, of course - the old boy’s never-ever post. It is it is it is. Abu said so. Always, absolutely, never ever.

on stilts.

freediver wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 6:09pm:

It was about your lengthy attempt to explain away as unimportant Malaysia's refusal to allow ethnic Malays to self identify as non-Muslim, and to imprison them in "rehabilitation camps" if they try. I even quoted it for you.

Yes we know FD - trying to draw a moral equivalence between two cases that couldn't be more different. No need to keep explaining.

When this systematic persecution in Burma leads to more riots, more massacres and more ethnic cleansing of Rohingya, I'll be sure to qualify any further commenting on it with a seering condemnation of the minor inconvenience suffered by one or two Malaysian apostates. You know, just so I'm not a hypocrite and all.

Off-Topic replies have been moved to this Topic.

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 11^th, 2014 at 11:30am:

freediver wrote on Apr 10th, 2014 at 6:09pm: It was about your lengthy attempt to explain away as unimportant Malaysia's refusal to allow ethnic Malays to self identify as non-Muslim, and to imprison them in "rehabilitation camps" if they try. I even quoted it for you. Yes we know FD - trying to draw a moral equivalence between two cases that couldn't be more different. No need to keep explaining. When this systematic persecution in Burma leads to more riots, more massacres and more ethnic cleansing of Rohingya, I'll be sure to qualify any further commenting on it with a seering condemnation of the minor inconvenience suffered by one or two Malaysian apostates. You know, just so I'm not a hypocrite and all.

So you don't actually care about the right to self-identify? How many of these rehabilitation camps are there?

freediver wrote on Apr 13^th, 2014 at 9:25am:

So you don't actually care about the right to self-identify? How many of these rehabilitation camps are there?

I care about measures being put in place that are known to contribute to violence and massacres. I believe there have been maybe 4 or 5 actual cases total of people being sent to rehabilitation camps in Malaysia for abandoning islam - which constitutes a tiny minority of all apostasy cases. It is reprehensible, but there is clearly no moral equivalence between this and what is happening to the Rohingya.

You may as well be calling me a hypocritic jewish apologist for not mentioning the fact that apostates in Israel are also denied the right to self identify.

Quote:

I care about measures being put in place that are known to contribute to violence and massacres. I believe there have been maybe 4 or 5 actual cases total of people being sent to rehabilitation camps in Malaysia for abandoning islam - which constitutes a tiny minority of all apostasy cases.

Isn't that what apostasy is? How many rehabilitation camps are there?


Quote:

It is reprehensible, but there is clearly no moral equivalence between this and what is happening to the Rohingya.

If it is so reprehensible, why were you so dismissive of it previously? Do you only care about the right to self identify in morally equivalent cases?

I was not arguing moral equivalence. I was calling you a hypocrite, for expressing the opposite view on the right to self identify to what you did previously now that Muslims are on the receiving end.

freediver wrote on Apr 13^th, 2014 at 12:10pm:

Isn't that what apostasy is?

Thats what I meant - the vast majority of apostates in Malaysia do not go to rehabilitation camps.


freediver wrote on Apr 13^th, 2014 at 12:10pm:

Do you only care about the right to self identify in morally equivalent cases?

Pretty much. I care far more about self identity cases that directly lead to violence and massacres than I do about cases that don't.

In case I am not being clear, my concern in this case is not self identity per se, its as I said earlier in the thread: "the institutionalised persecution and denial of rights of the Rohingya - of which this latest census episode is just another in a long line of systematic persecution of these people.". Self idntity "persecution" in Malaysia stops at the inconvenience of the courts not allowing a change on your identity card - and in exceptionally rare cases, being ordered to spend time at a rehabilitation camp. In Burma, self identity persecution extends to violent intimidation, local ethnic cleansing (accompanied by destruction of homes) and massacres in the hundreds. I condemn both, but I make no apologies for holding one as more of a concern than the other - and it is most certainly not hypocritical.

Quote:

Pretty much. I care far more about self identity cases that directly lead to violence and massacres than I do about cases that don't.

Can you explain the direct link from denying the right to self identify to massacres? Do the Burmese massacre Muslims because the UN left their ethnicity off a list of options?


Quote:

In case I am not being clear, my concern in this case is not self identity per se

That much is obvious, per se.

freediver wrote on Apr 13^th, 2014 at 12:46pm:

Can you explain the direct link from denying the right to self identify to massacres?

I'm merely going off what the UN Special Rapporteur said.


freediver wrote on Apr 13^th, 2014 at 12:46pm:

the UN left their ethnicity off a list of options?

::)

Do you always parrot stuff that makes no sense to you? Can you quote the text again that you are "going off"?

It makes perfect sense.


Quote:

The Special Rapporteur also expressed concern about the ongoing census in Myanmar: “The Government’s decision against self-identification of the Rohingya for the census is not in compliance with international human rights standards,” he stressed. Self-identification for the Rohingya has been at the root of some protests in the past in Rakhine State that led to violence and human rights violations and abuses for which there is yet to be accountability. “The ongoing census risks this cycle repeating itself,” the expert said.

Are you saying that because they are Muslims, it is inevitable that they will turn violent if they don't get what they want?

Yes, G, are you just trying to appease these violent Moslems?

You answer FD's question.

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 7^th, 2014 at 4:43pm:

So under the heading "persecution of Buddhists in Myanmar", we have a grand total of two (albeit gruesome) murders and one assault. It is particularly spineless to bring up these 3 incidents as some attempt to answer the institutionalised persecution and denial of rights of the Rohingya And I'm not even mentioning the two massacres of Rohingya of between 100-200 people in 2001 and 2012, both accompanied by mass expulsions of Rohingya and the destruction of their homes.

The muslims have been persecuting the Buddhists for quite some time, i always think there are 3 sides to every story,in this case we have the Buddhists and the muslims with the truth being an independent 3rd side.

So why did the Buddhists wait so long to retaliate after this long list of incidents caused by muslims?
Scroll down page to find a long list of incidents where muslims target buddhists.
themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/05/02/the-innocent-and-persecuted-rohingya-muslims-in-burma-a-history-of-rape-genocide-and-grisly-murders-of-buddhists-by-illegal-bangladeshi-muslims/

The war criminal Bosnian Nasser Oric started the conflict with the Serbs then claimed they were the victims when the Serbs retaliated to muslim aggression, there is a pattern here with muslims starting trouble then claiming to be the victim when the other side fights back.

Gandalf- Do you think muslims and Islam have an ingrained victim mentality?

Quote:

It is particularly spineless to bring up these 3 incidents as some attempt to answer the institutionalised persecution and denial of rights of the Rohingya

Would you say it is more or less spineless than your attempts to dismiss the institutionalised persecution and denial of rights to non-Muslims in Malaysia?


Quote:

Gandalf- Do you think muslims and Islam have an ingrained victim mentality?

Muhammed went from nothing to running a large military empire. The empire continued to spread rapidly after his death. At every step of the way, the Muslims were the victims and were merely defending themselves.

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 21^st, 2014 at 1:50pm:

The muslims have been persecuting the Buddhists for quite some time

The Rohingya in Burma are a vulnerable and impoverished minority, who are systematically persecuted and dehumanised. This has resulted in at least two major and by all accounts coordinated massacres and ethnic cleansings in the last 15 years. The idea that this minority is persecuting the privileged majority is pure fiction. And attempting to deflect the discussion by bringing up totaly unrelated episodes of persecution by muslims won't change this fact.

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2014 at 3:23pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 21st, 2014 at 1:50pm: The muslims have been persecuting the Buddhists for quite some time The Rohingya in Burma are a vulnerable and impoverished minority, who are systematically persecuted and dehumanised. This has resulted in at least two major and by all accounts coordinated massacres and ethnic cleansings in the last 15 years. The idea that this minority is persecuting the privileged majority is pure fiction. And attempting to deflect the discussion by bringing up totaly unrelated episodes of persecution by muslims won't change this fact.

Do you know the history of these muslims Gandalf?

From your diatribe I doubt it very much.

Why would you wish to kill the people who had accepted a group of seafarers that were  shipwrecked.

Why will other MUSLIM NATIONS not accept them into their fold as MUSLIMS.


 

I see you are trying to justify the massacres and persecution of these people adamant. Thats your prerogative of course - but please don't come back and claim you are doing anything else.

Also, I would heartily support muslim nations taking them in. It will certainly require something as drastic as this if the apologists for persecution like yourself continue with your apologetics, and something akin to a "final solution" is carried out by the Rakhine mobs in close collusion with the Burmese authorities. You'll no doubt giving us a highly relevant lecture about "the history" while people are being massacred in their thousands.

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2014 at 7:38pm:

I see you are trying to justify the massacres and persecution of these people adamant. Thats your prerogative of course - but please don't come back and claim you are doing anything else. Also, I would heartily support muslim nations taking them in. It will certainly require something as drastic as this if the apologists for persecution like yourself continue with your apologetics, and something akin to a "final solution" is carried out by the Rakhine mobs in close collusion with the Burmese authorities. You'll no doubt giving us a highly relevant lecture about "the history" while people are being massacred in their thousands.

Well evaded Gandalf, no answer was the stern reply! I would have thought that Bangladesh would have enough room for them after "loosing" a couple of mill Hindu's, what say you?    

So lets get this straight - if Bangladesh refuses to take them in, that makes the persecution and massacres by the Burmese ok does it?

Exactly what did you expect me to say about Bangladesh? Yes its bad if they don't protect them. But thanks for the strawman.

How can those Bangladeshis bear to watch these Muselmen suffer so? How awful they must be.

I blame Islam.

STOP THE BOATS.

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2014 at 8:03pm:

Exactly what did you expect me to say about Bangladesh

It's where they came from Gandalf, why don't they want to go home?

Adamant wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 12:44pm:

It's where they came from Gandalf, why don't they want to go home?

The Rohingya living there today were born in Burma. Thats like saying I'm from Britain because my great-great grandfather was born there.

If Thein Sein decided that Rohingya leaders had entered into negotiations with enemies of the state, would it be reasonable for him to execute every adult male Rohingya? Or does it only work if an angel tells you to?

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/jlutin/attachment_zpsc6ae015b.jpg

It must be hard for Muslims to stand up for the rights and freedoms of other people, who always just happen to be Muslims, when people keep noticing their hypocrisy.

freediver wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 7:02pm:

It must be hard for Muslims to stand up for the rights and freedoms of other people, who always just happen to be Muslims, when people keep noticing their hypocrisy.

See also: almost every culture ever.

Oh my bad, only Muslim cultures are nepotistic, oops, carry on.

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 5:59pm:

Adamant wrote on Apr 23rd, 2014 at 12:44pm: It's where they came from Gandalf, why don't they want to go home? The Rohingya living there today were born in Burma. Thats like saying I'm from Britain because my great-great grandfather was born there.

This generation born in Burma, perhaps. The last generation born in Bangladesh, following its War of Independence in 1971.

The generation before that born in East Pakistan, following partition in 1947.

And the generation before that born in the British colony of India. Before that, a succession of dynasties and kingdoms going back 2000 years.

Burma, or Myanmar, is equally up for dibs. Burma is a collection of ethnic tribes, held together by the agreements of warlords and various occupiers from the Japs to the British. The current occupiers, the SLORC generals, are existentially held together by various wars with the Shan and Karen peoples, and even the anti-Communist Chinese guerrillas, the Kuomintang.

The SLORC, paradoxically, are now allied with Communist China. Go figure. They were once funded by the CIA to do the exact opposite.

The entire region, from the Salween River in the Golden Triangle to the Indian Eastern frontier, is run by tribes, warlords and a handful of generals. Much of it is lawless. Most of it is inaccessable to tourists. Myanmar is only now opening its borders - its Thai land borders in November, 2013.

There are few patriots in these parts. Hardly anyone gets a passport, and elections are a joke. Religion and ethnicity is all anyone there has.

As some here call them - brown people, rubbish people, the tinted races.

Stop the boats indeed.

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2014 at 5:59pm:

Adamant wrote on Apr 23rd, 2014 at 12:44pm: It's where they came from Gandalf, why don't they want to go home? The Rohingya living there today were born in Burma. Thats like saying I'm from Britain because my great-great grandfather was born there.

This generation born in Burma, perhaps. The last generation born in Bangladesh, following its War of Independence in 1971.

The generation before that born in East Pakistan, following partition in 1947.

And the generation before that born in the British colony of India. Before that, a succession of dynasties and kingdoms going back 2000 years.

Burma, or Myanmar, is equally up for dibs. Burma is a collection of ethnic tribes, held together by the agreements of warlords and various occupiers from the Japs to the British. The current occupiers, the SLORC generals, are existentially held together by various wars with the Shan and Karen peoples, and even the anti-Communist Chinese guerrillas, the Kuomintang.

The SLORC, paradoxically, are now allied with Communist China. Go figure. They were once funded by the CIA to do the exact opposite.

The entire region, from the Salween River in the Golden Triangle to the Indian Eastern frontier, is run by tribes, warlords and a handful of generals. Much of it is lawless. Most of it is inaccessable to tourists. Myanmar is only now opening its borders - its Thai land borders in November, 2013.

There are few patriots in these parts. Hardly anyone gets a passport, and elections are a joke. Religion and ethnicity is all anyone there has.

As some here call them - brown people, rubbish people, the tinted races.

Stop the boats indeed.

Has a genocide already started?


Quote:

Last week the London School of Economics hosted a conference on the Rohingya, with academics, legal experts and human rights advocates from all over the world attending. The United Nations Special Rapporteur on human rights in Burma also addressed the conference. What might surprise some is the main subject which dominated the conference, whether genocide was about to happen, or whether it had already started. It is a sign of just how bad things have got since the latest waves of attacks began in 2012 that this is the issue now being discussed. Legal experts, academics, and NGOs working in Burma identified key elements of genocide which are taking place there. These included denying Rohingya legal existence and right to nationality; access to medicine, food, and other basic necessities to sustain life; policies of extensive structures of discrimination, and allowing and facilitating hatred and popular violence against the Rohingya. Combined, these threaten to lead to the extermination of Rohingya as an ethnic group in Burma

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/tun-khin/rohingya-genocide-burma-being-ignored_b_5254141.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Is this reverse dhimmitude? muslims have in the past and do in the present, perpetrate atrocities against non muslims and other muslims they disagree with.

Or perhaps, as in the case of muslims who committed the most inhumane, cruelest barbarities possible against innocent men, women and children during the Armenian Genocide, it's all just an unfortunate clash of civilizations, as our local muslim described it, with not a peep out of his apologists and supporters.
   

moses wrote on May 6^th, 2014 at 6:23pm:

Is this reverse dhimmitude? muslims have in the past and do in the present, perpetrate atrocities against non muslims and other muslims they disagree with. Or perhaps, as in the case of muslims who committed the most inhumane, cruelest barbarities possible against innocent men, women and children during the Armenian Genocide, it's all just an unfortunate clash of civilizations, as our local muslim described it, with not a peep out of his apologists and supporters.

Yeah the Quaran can't refute the barbaric practices in context.