0ktema wrote on Apr 8^th, 2014 at 7:02pm:

True Colours wrote on Apr 8th, 2014 at 5:41pm: Saudi has nearly total 80,000 Iraqi refugees and 300,000 Palestinian refugees in their population, which is by far more than Australia's total refugee population. Yet Saudi has fewer citizens than Australia. Saudi Arabia is helping to fund the Syrian refugee camps in Jordan: On top of this Saudi donates hundredss of millions of dollars to help fund refugee camps in other countries: Saudi Aid for Refugees in Africa SAUDI ARABIA CONTRIBUTES US$ 10M FOR PALESTINE REFUGEES FROM SYRIA On a per capita basis Saudi Arabia is the biggest donator of foreign aid in the world! I can't find any information regarding the 300,000 Palestinian refugees you claim to be in Saudi Arabia ... do you have a link?

Yes. Here is a link about the 291,000 Palestinian refugees in Saudi.

http://www.indexmundi.com/saudi_arabia/refugees_and_internally_displaced_persons.html

Why wouldn't there be?  They're geographically close and culturally similar. 

... wrote on Apr 8^th, 2014 at 10:17pm:

Why wouldn't there be?  They're geographically close and culturally similar.

That’s like saying we’re kulturally similar to the nation of Tevalu.

After all, we both sing Christmas carols and share the Union Jack in the left hand corner of our flags.

Saudi Arabia has one of the largest known reserves of oil. Palestine has one of the largest reserves of dates.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

Culturally similar = they're all dirty, dusky musulmen.

True Colours wrote on Apr 8^th, 2014 at 9:51pm:

0ktema wrote on Apr 8th, 2014 at 7:02pm: True Colours wrote on Apr 8th, 2014 at 5:41pm: Saudi has nearly total 80,000 Iraqi refugees and 300,000 Palestinian refugees in their population, which is by far more than Australia's total refugee population. Yet Saudi has fewer citizens than Australia. Saudi Arabia is helping to fund the Syrian refugee camps in Jordan: On top of this Saudi donates hundredss of millions of dollars to help fund refugee camps in other countries: Saudi Aid for Refugees in Africa SAUDI ARABIA CONTRIBUTES US$ 10M FOR PALESTINE REFUGEES FROM SYRIA On a per capita basis Saudi Arabia is the biggest donator of foreign aid in the world! I can't find any information regarding the 300,000 Palestinian refugees you claim to be in Saudi Arabia ... do you have a link? Yes. Here is a link about the 291,000 Palestinian refugees in Saudi. http://www.indexmundi.com/saudi_arabia/refugees_and_internally_displaced_persons.html

Ok. So many of these 291,000 Palestinian refugees have been in Saudi Arabia since the 1948 Arab–Israeli War and the rest are there decedents is this correct?

And how many of the 80,000 Iraqi refugees who fled First Gulf War are there still living in Saudi Arabia? 

... wrote on Apr 8^th, 2014 at 10:48pm:

Culturally similar = they're all dirty, dusky musulmen.

Maybe, but they’re all from different dirty, dusky tribes.

You’d never know, of course, but they seem to place a lot of importance on it.

Saudis do their shopping at Harrods. Palestinians swarm and haggle at the local market.

Rich tapestry, innit.

Karnal wrote on Apr 8^th, 2014 at 10:56pm:

... wrote on Apr 8th, 2014 at 10:48pm: Culturally similar = they're all dirty, dusky musulmen. Maybe, but they’re all from different dirty, dusky tribes. You’d never know, of course, but they seem to place a lot of importance on it.

You don't say?  You wouldn't get any of that sort of division here - were all one big happy tribe.

... wrote on Apr 8^th, 2014 at 11:00pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 8th, 2014 at 10:56pm: ... wrote on Apr 8th, 2014 at 10:48pm: Culturally similar = they're all dirty, dusky musulmen. Maybe, but they’re all from different dirty, dusky tribes. You’d never know, of course, but they seem to place a lot of importance on it. You don't say?  You wouldn't get any of that sort of division here - were all one big happy tribe.

Oh, there’s no division in the multicultural nation of Israel either.

As long as you know all the songs from Fiddler on the Roof.

True Colours wrote on Apr 8^th, 2014 at 9:51pm:

0ktema wrote on Apr 8th, 2014 at 7:02pm: True Colours wrote on Apr 8th, 2014 at 5:41pm: Saudi has nearly total 80,000 Iraqi refugees and 300,000 Palestinian refugees in their population, which is by far more than Australia's total refugee population. Yet Saudi has fewer citizens than Australia. Saudi Arabia is helping to fund the Syrian refugee camps in Jordan: On top of this Saudi donates hundredss of millions of dollars to help fund refugee camps in other countries: Saudi Aid for Refugees in Africa SAUDI ARABIA CONTRIBUTES US$ 10M FOR PALESTINE REFUGEES FROM SYRIA On a per capita basis Saudi Arabia is the biggest donator of foreign aid in the world! I can't find any information regarding the 300,000 Palestinian refugees you claim to be in Saudi Arabia ... do you have a link? Yes. Here is a link about the 291,000 Palestinian refugees in Saudi. http://www.indexmundi.com/saudi_arabia/refugees_and_internally_displaced_persons.html

Bollocks



http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49e486976.html

ANd that 70,000 are not Palestinians:
The UN estimates that there are 70,000 stateless people in Saudi Arabia, most of them descended from nomadic tribes whose traditional territory included parts of several countries. Their legal limbo makes it harder for them to receive government benefits.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/01/saudi-arabia-riyadh-poverty-inequality



Your source:
http://www.indexmundi.com/about.html
The Team
Miguel Barrientos, Founder: Miguel is an accomplished technologist with extensive experience in the business intelligence and data warehousing sectors. Prior to launching IndexMundi, Miguel helped multiple Fortune 500 companies design and implement large-scale data analysis systems. Miguel holds MS and BS degrees from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

Claudia Soria, Co-Founder: Claudia is a serial entrepreneur with broad experience launching and managing online ventures. Prior to working on IndexMundi, Claudia built and managed Bolivia Web, a popular site for people interested in Bolivia. She also launched and ran Adventia, a software company focused on developing online chat solutions. Claudia holds a BS degree in Economics.

True Colours wrote on Apr 8^th, 2014 at 9:51pm:

Saudi has nearly total 80,000 Iraqi refugees and 300,000 Palestinian refugees in their population, which is by far more than Australia's total refugee population. Yet Saudi has fewer citizens than Australia.

Since seem to be talking about total refugee intake in rather an historical maner (in the case of the Palestinian refugees)  ... the following may come as a surprise to you ...  Since the modern Refugee and Humanitarian Program began in 1977, Australia has received 392,538 offshore refugee and humanitarian entrants and has issued 42,714 onshore protection visas.

... According to the best estimates available, 2009-10 was the year in which Australia, since becoming an independent nation, passed the 750,000 mark in its intake of refugees and humanitarian entrants.


Quote:

After the war, a much larger refugee program was commenced as Australia launched an ambitious immigration program to meet labour shortages in a growing economy. In July 1947, the Australian Government entered into an agreement with the new International Refugee Organisation to settle displaced people from camps in Europe. In the next seven years, Australia welcomed more than 170,000 refugees, the largest groups being from Poland, Yugoslavia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Ukraine, Czechoslovakia and Hungary. To meet the needs of the refugees and other migrants, ship-board English classes were established (the precursor of the modern Adult Migrant English Program), army camps were converted to migrant hostels for on-arrival accommodation and the Good Neighbour Council was established to foster and coordinate volunteer settlement support. In the following two decades, the overwhelming majority of refugees were Eastern Europeans fleeing persecution in Soviet Bloc countries. Numbers of humanitarian arrivals increased substantially after the crushing of the Hungarian Revolution in 1956 and the Warsaw Pact countries’ invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968. In the early 1970s, the refugee intake began to diversify. In 1972, 198 Asians expelled by Uganda’s President Idi Amin were settled. Humanitarian settlement from Chile commenced the following year after a military coup deposed the Allende Government. Cypriot refugees began arriving after the Turkish invasion of Northern Cyprus in 1974 and the 1975 war in East Timor brought 2,500 evacuees to Darwin, marking the beginning of a Timorese refugee diaspora in Australia. The fall of the South Vietnamese Government in Saigon in April 1975 began a chain of events which prompted a rethinking and reorganisation of Australia’s refugee program. The mass flight of Vietnamese refugees into nearby countries prompted an international response to which Australia committed support. By late 1975, the first 400 Vietnamese refugees had been selected by Australia for resettlement from camps in Guam, Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaysia. Over the next two decades, Australia was to resettle more than 100,000 Vietnamese refugees from various Asian countries. Only a small proportion, around 2000, came directly to Australia by boat to seek asylum. The first to arrive were five Vietnamese refugees who reached Darwin Harbour in a 17 metre fishing vessel. Another 55 boats followed in the ensuing six years. In the early 1980s, the refugee program expanded to an annual intake of up to 22,000, the largest annual intake in 30 years and a level not seen since. Vietnamese refugees settled from camps in Asia made up the bulk of new arrivals, with significant numbers of refugees also from Laos, Cambodia and Eastern Europe and smaller groups of Soviet Jews, Chileans, El Salvadorians, Cubans and members of ethnic minorities from Iraq (Assyrians, Armenians and Chaldeans). A milestone in Australia’s refugee intake: 750,000 since Federation According to the best estimates available, 2009-10 was the year in which Australia, since becoming an independent nation, passed the 750,000 mark in its intake of refugees and humanitarian entrants. From Federation in 1901 until 1948, no official statistics were kept of refugee settlement. However, research published by the Australian Parliamentary Library estimated that Australia received 20,000 refugees in this period. From July 1948 to June 1977, Australia received 269,266 assisted humanitarian arrivals, as well as another 33,000 unassisted humanitarian arrivals, according to DIAC estimates. Since the modern Refugee and Humanitarian Program began in 1977, Australia has received 392,538 offshore refugee and humanitarian entrants and has issued 42,714 onshore protection visas.

https://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/f/rhp-hist.php

Soren wrote on Apr 8^th, 2014 at 11:12pm:

True Colours wrote on Apr 8th, 2014 at 9:51pm: 0ktema wrote on Apr 8th, 2014 at 7:02pm: True Colours wrote on Apr 8th, 2014 at 5:41pm: Saudi has nearly total 80,000 Iraqi refugees and 300,000 Palestinian refugees in their population, which is by far more than Australia's total refugee population. Yet Saudi has fewer citizens than Australia. Saudi Arabia is helping to fund the Syrian refugee camps in Jordan: On top of this Saudi donates hundredss of millions of dollars to help fund refugee camps in other countries: Saudi Aid for Refugees in Africa SAUDI ARABIA CONTRIBUTES US$ 10M FOR PALESTINE REFUGEES FROM SYRIA On a per capita basis Saudi Arabia is the biggest donator of foreign aid in the world! I can't find any information regarding the 300,000 Palestinian refugees you claim to be in Saudi Arabia ... do you have a link? Yes. Here is a link about the 291,000 Palestinian refugees in Saudi. http://www.indexmundi.com/saudi_arabia/refugees_and_internally_displaced_persons.html Bollocks http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49e486976.html ANd that 70,000 are not Palestinians: The UN estimates that there are 70,000 stateless people in Saudi Arabia, most of them descended from nomadic tribes whose traditional territory included parts of several countries. Their legal limbo makes it harder for them to receive government benefits. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/01/saudi-arabia-riyadh-poverty-inequality Your source: http://www.indexmundi.com/about.html The Team Miguel Barrientos, Founder: Miguel is an accomplished technologist with extensive experience in the business intelligence and data warehousing sectors. Prior to launching IndexMundi, Miguel helped multiple Fortune 500 companies design and implement large-scale data analysis systems. Miguel holds MS and BS degrees from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Claudia Soria, Co-Founder: Claudia is a serial entrepreneur with broad experience launching and managing online ventures. Prior to working on IndexMundi, Claudia built and managed Bolivia Web, a popular site for people interested in Bolivia. She also launched and ran Adventia, a software company focused on developing online chat solutions. Claudia holds a BS degree in Economics.

OK, so you don't like Claudia. Do you like Jimmy?


Quote:

The countries outside the Palestinian territories with significant Palestinian populations are: ...Saudi Arabia 280,245 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_diaspora

0ktema wrote on Apr 8^th, 2014 at 11:16pm:

... According to the best estimates available, 2009-10 was the year in which Australia, since becoming an independent nation, passed the 750,000 mark in its intake of refugees and humanitarian entrants.

Yes, but presumably many of them have died since 1901, and many have probably even returned to their own countries.

More of us leave the Lucky Country for good
http://www.smh.com.au/national/more-of-us-leave-the-lucky-country-for-good-20121211-2b7rq.html

Apparently people born overseas are more likely to leave Australia.

http://images-2.domain.com.au/2012/12/11/3883193/art-353-departures-300x0.jpg

True Colours wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 12:14am:

0ktema wrote on Apr 8th, 2014 at 11:16pm: ... According to the best estimates available, 2009-10 was the year in which Australia, since becoming an independent nation, passed the 750,000 mark in its intake of refugees and humanitarian entrants. Yes, but presumably many of them have died since 1901, and many have probably even returned to their own countries.

You seem to have conveniently ignored the fact that  ...
Quote:

Since the modern Refugee and Humanitarian Program began in 1977, Australia has received 392,538 offshore refugee and humanitarian entrants and has issued 42,714 onshore protection visas.

0ktema wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 12:19am:

True Colours wrote on Apr 9th, 2014 at 12:14am: 0ktema wrote on Apr 8th, 2014 at 11:16pm: ... According to the best estimates available, 2009-10 was the year in which Australia, since becoming an independent nation, passed the 750,000 mark in its intake of refugees and humanitarian entrants. Yes, but presumably many of them have died since 1901, and many have probably even returned to their own countries. You seem to have conveniently ignored the fact that  ... Quote: Since the modern Refugee and Humanitarian Program began in 1977, Australia has received 392,538 offshore refugee and humanitarian entrants and has issued 42,714 onshore protection visas.

But how many are still here?

True Colours wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 12:22am:

0ktema wrote on Apr 9th, 2014 at 12:19am: True Colours wrote on Apr 9th, 2014 at 12:14am: 0ktema wrote on Apr 8th, 2014 at 11:16pm: ... According to the best estimates available, 2009-10 was the year in which Australia, since becoming an independent nation, passed the 750,000 mark in its intake of refugees and humanitarian entrants. Yes, but presumably many of them have died since 1901, and many have probably even returned to their own countries. You seem to have conveniently ignored the fact that  ... Quote: Since the modern Refugee and Humanitarian Program began in 1977, Australia has received 392,538 offshore refugee and humanitarian entrants and has issued 42,714 onshore protection visas. But how many are still here?

The vast majority I would think.

Australia is a pretty good place to live, and I imagine that's why you yourself haven't emigrated to sum sort of glorious predominantly Muslim country ...  ::)

0ktema wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 12:32am:

True Colours wrote on Apr 9th, 2014 at 12:22am: 0ktema wrote on Apr 9th, 2014 at 12:19am: True Colours wrote on Apr 9th, 2014 at 12:14am: 0ktema wrote on Apr 8th, 2014 at 11:16pm: ... According to the best estimates available, 2009-10 was the year in which Australia, since becoming an independent nation, passed the 750,000 mark in its intake of refugees and humanitarian entrants. Yes, but presumably many of them have died since 1901, and many have probably even returned to their own countries. You seem to have conveniently ignored the fact that  ... Quote: Since the modern Refugee and Humanitarian Program began in 1977, Australia has received 392,538 offshore refugee and humanitarian entrants and has issued 42,714 onshore protection visas. But how many are still here? The vast majority I would think.

Why?



0ktema wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 12:32am:

Australia is a pretty good place to live,

Is it though? 84,000 plan to leave permanently every year.


0ktema wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 12:32am:

and I imagine that's why you yourself haven't emigrated to sum sort of glorious predominantly Muslim country ...  ::)

Yeah, but I am a 6th generation Australian with all my family living here.

Maybe foreign-born people can easily return to their homelands - with  knowledge of a place, language of the land, family and all those kind of important things.

0ktema wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 12:32am:

Australia is a pretty good place to live,

True Colours wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 1:01am:

Is it though? 84,000 plan to leave permanently every year.

Nice bit of cherry picking TC.


Quote:

''Each year, many Australians plan to leave the country permanently but most return to Australia within a year of their departure,'' the bureau reported. In 2010 of the 84,000 Australian residents who said they were departing permanently, only 17,000 (20 per cent) spent 12 months or more overseas.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/more-of-us-leave-the-lucky-country-for-good-20121211-2b7rq.html

0ktema wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 1:51am:

0ktema wrote on Apr 9th, 2014 at 12:32am: Australia is a pretty good place to live, True Colours wrote on Apr 9th, 2014 at 1:01am: Is it though? 84,000 plan to leave permanently every year. Nice bit of cherry picking TC. Quote: ''Each year, many Australians plan to leave the country permanently but most return to Australia within a year of their departure,'' the bureau reported. In 2010 of the 84,000 Australian residents who said they were departing permanently, only 17,000 (20 per cent) spent 12 months or more overseas. http://www.smh.com.au/national/more-of-us-leave-the-lucky-country-for-good-20121211-2b7rq.html

Yes but if 84,000 Australians try to leave the country permenantly on an annual basis, how great a country is it?

It is not easy to set oneself up in a new country. Some succeed some don't. 84,000 Australians tried to leave for good 2010.

True Colours wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 10:38am:

0ktema wrote on Apr 9th, 2014 at 1:51am: 0ktema wrote on Apr 9th, 2014 at 12:32am: Australia is a pretty good place to live, True Colours wrote on Apr 9th, 2014 at 1:01am: Is it though? 84,000 plan to leave permanently every year. Nice bit of cherry picking TC. Quote: ''Each year, many Australians plan to leave the country permanently but most return to Australia within a year of their departure,'' the bureau reported. In 2010 of the 84,000 Australian residents who said they were departing permanently, only 17,000 (20 per cent) spent 12 months or more overseas. http://www.smh.com.au/national/more-of-us-leave-the-lucky-country-for-good-20121211-2b7rq.html Yes but if 84,000 Australians try to leave the country permenantly on an annual basis, how great a country is it? It is not easy to set oneself up in a new country. Some succeed some don't. 84,000 Australians tried to leave for good 2010.

I take from your previous posts that you don't think Australia is all that great of a country and that if it wasn't for your family, unfamiliarity with other places and language barriers you would be tempted to try out the greener pastures of some desert kingdom! ...  ::)

From what I have seen on various Muslim forums of which I am member ... indeed you probably would be in for quite a culture shock. One big thing that came through was a problem with a lack of coordination and structure of many public services particularly in Middle Eastern (Muslim) countries. Government services, licensing and the courts etc, could often be a nightmare to try to navigate through and many expectations had to be lowered when compared to sourcing the same services in Australia. 

OK. now back to the whole article where it clearly shows Australia is much more popular than not and that most of the permanent departures return to either New Zealand or the UK ...


Quote:

CUT-PRICE international air travel, an increasingly globalised job market and the lure of greener pastures are tempting more Australians to leave our shores for good. The number of people leaving permanently increased by 18 per cent in the five years to 2010, the latest snapshot of social trends by the Australian Bureau of Statistics shows. But the number who tick the permanent departure box on their passenger cards is higher than the number who actually stay away. ''Each year, many Australians plan to leave the country permanently but most return to Australia within a year of their departure,'' the bureau reported. In 2010 of the 84,000 Australian residents who said they were departing permanently, only 17,000 (20 per cent) spent 12 months or more overseas. Fewer people left for good in 2005, 2008 and 2009 but more left in 2010. About 75 people in every 100,000 who left in 2010 did not return. They were more likely to be women, aged between 20 and 39, often with young children and not born in Australia. Of the 17,000 who left permanently, 61 per cent were born overseas with the highest numbers coming from New Zealand and Britain. Plain old homesickness or ''lack of satisfactory employment'' were possible reasons, the bureau's report said. ''Younger migrants may return to their country of birth because they are needed by their family,'' it said. ''Conversely, over the long term, migrants may return after successful employment and increased wealth, for retirement, family formation and dissolution, or when conditions have improved.'' But the number of permanent arrivals remains considerably higher than departures. The report also highlighted the shrinking number of farmers, which was a problem given the growing food demands of countries such as China. Despite Australians' enduring love affair with the idea of life on the land, the number of those listing farmer as occupation dropped by 40 per cent in the 30 years to 2011. ''The number of farmers in Australia has been declining for many decades as small farmers sell up to large-scale farming operations and fewer young people take over family farms,'' the bureau found. There were 19,700 fewer farmers in Australia in 2011 than in 2006. Between 1981 and 2011 the number declined by 106,200, an average of 294 fewer farmers every month. Those who remained on the land were generally older than other workers, with an average age of 53 compared with 40 for people in other jobs, the bureau found.

A bit of further information from another site ...


Quote:

In the year to February 2014, there were 774,710 permanent and long-term arrivals into Australia – down from the record 792,500 arrivals set in the year to January 2013 – partly offset by 381,370 permanent and long-term departures from Australia

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2014/04/immigration-into-australia-rises/

0ktema wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 12:08pm:

I take from your previous posts that you don't think Australia is all that great of a country...

Let's stick to the point. In any given year close to 100,000 Australians decide to try and leave Australia permanently. Obviously, they do not think Australia is so great.

Most of those who leave are foreign-born. How many are refugees returning to their homelands?

Do you have any reliable figures for how many refugees currently reside in Australia? It would be interesting to know because Australia is probably the most suitable place in the world to put refugees; lots of land, rivers, resources, etc.



0ktema wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 12:08pm:

From what I have seen on various Muslim forums of which I am member ... indeed you probably would be in for quite a culture shock. One big thing that came through was a problem with a lack of coordination and structure of many public services particularly in Middle Eastern (Muslim) countries. Government services, licensing and the courts etc, could often be a nightmare to try to navigate through and many expectations had to be lowered when compared to sourcing the same services in Australia.

Depends what you are looking for. I have visited many Muslim countries and felt safer there at night in major cities than I would in Australia. In every Muslim country I have visited, I would feel more confident that my daughters would be safer when out in public than in Australia. I have visited Muslim countries where there seems to be more freedom of speech than in Australia. I have found that the people in Muslim countries tend to be friendlier than Australia. I see far more racism in Australia than I saw in most Muslim countries. In terms of services, I have lived in Muslim countries where I have received better services than I get in Australia.

Each country has its pros and cons and one would do well to remember William Blake's saying "to generalise is to be an idiot".

True Colours wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 12:44pm:

Let's stick to the point. In any given year close to 100,000 Australians decide to try and leave Australia permanently. Obviously, they do not think Australia is so great. Most of those who leave are foreign-born. How many are refugees returning to their homelands?

I don't know.

However if they managed to earn enough money to fund their return and then choose to ... well and good for them!



True Colours wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 12:44pm:

Do you have any reliable figures for how many refugees currently reside in Australia?

No. Do you have any reliable figures for how many of the 80,000 Iraqi refugees who fled First Gulf War are still living in Saudi Arabia?


True Colours wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 12:44pm:

Interesting to know because Australia probably the most suitable place in the world to put refugees; lot's of land, rivers, resources, etc.

Australia as you no doubt (should) know is limited in regard to arable land and the Murray–Darling river system (our largest river system) is already under great stress.

Anyway it is reasonably obvious that many Australians (quite likely the majority) would prefer to take in refugees other than those of the Islamic faith.

Personally I do feel very torn in relation to the plight of many Muslim refugees ... but in my opinion Islamic reform has a long way to go before having a much larger population than we already have here makes good sense. The problems that have developed amongst disaffected Muslim youth in the UK and France give relevant warning to us in this regard, as does the rise and popularity of radical Islamists like Anjem Choudary.   

Christianity has abundantly overcome any historical penchant for violence and the separation of church and state has rightly limited it's influence in other areas.
In my assessment - Islam on the other hand longs for political dominion and is yet to have it's teeth properly pulled!

0ktema wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 8:25pm:

Christianity has abundantly overcome any historical penchant for violence and the separation of church and state has rightly limited it's influence in other areas.

oh so that is why the IRA bombed english targets?

Is that why the only nuclear holocaust in the history of man was perpetrated by Christians?

Is that why Christian politicians here and in the US are trying to criminalise abortions? All separation of state and that thingy.

Let's not even mention Abbott's priest-training at the seminary and his Catholic cabinet.

True, but Joe Hockey’s a dirty Muslim, let’s not forget that.

It is a jolly world, no?

0ktema wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 8:25pm:

Christianity has abundantly overcome any historical penchant for violence and the separation of church and state has rightly limited it's influence in other areas.

Perhaps I should have more correctly said - religiously motivated violence.


True Colours wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 9:56pm:

oh so that is why the IRA bombed english targets?

The sectarian violence in Northern Ireland was much more politically motivated than anything else. Descendants of colonists from Great Britain wished for Northern Ireland to remain part of the United Kingdom. The Irish Catholic minority wished for a united Ireland and an end to English rule. The truth be told, religious differences didn't much come in to the matter.   


True Colours wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 9:56pm:

Is that why the only nuclear holocaust in the history of man was perpetrated by Christians?

Indeed, there are pointed arguments as to the justification (or lack there of) relating to the dreadful bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and yes any I would give you that any president of the USA (to this point in time) would (at the very least) have to make some show of being a practicing Christian.


True Colours wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 9:56pm:

Is that why Christian politicians here and in the US are trying to criminalise abortions? All separation of state and that thingy.

The separation of church and state is the reason they (Christian politicians) have so much trouble trying to do so.



True Colours wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 9:56pm:

Let's not even mention Abbott's priest-training at the seminary and his Catholic cabinet.

Tony Abbott and his cabinet don't have the necessary public support to start thumping people (to any great extent) with their particular Christian values.

Karnal wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 10:02pm:

True, but Joe Hockey’s a dirty Muslim, let’s not forget that. It is a jolly world, no?

Actually Joe has a very interesting family history ...


Quote:

So Joe Hockey, the youngest of four children, was born in North Sydney in the mid-’60s to an immigrant shopkeeper father and an Australian-born fashion-model mother. His father, Richard Hockey, ran a corner delicatessen, which he opened a few years after arriving in Australia in 1948. Before that, Richard had served in the British Army at the tail end of World War II and before that he was born in Bethlehem. What? Born in Bethlehem? Yep, perhaps not in a manger, not in a stable, but definitely in the little town of Bethlehem in 1927 in what was then known as the British Mandate of/for/in Palestine. The family name was not then Hockey, of course. What, you’re disappointed? You thought maybe the family name went back thousands of years to the ancient Hockey clan of Babylon? Nope, back in 1927 when Richard, son of Joseph (really), was born in the little town of Bethlehem, the family was named Hokeidonian and they were Christian Armenians. “My grandfather, Joseph Hokeidonian,” Joe Hockey said a few ago, “was sent by the Catholic Church in Jerusalem to go to Palestine as a spy.” That would be as a spy against the Ottoman Turks during World War I, service which cost grandfather Joseph an eye but earned him the gratitude of the British, who took over Palestine from the Turks in 1918 and made Joseph the deputy town clerk of Beersheba for a while. Anyway, Bethlehem-born Richard Hokeidonian served, in his turn, in the British Army in the last days of World War II and for a while thereafter (without losing any body parts) and then headed for his new life with a delicatessen, a fashion-model wife and four kids in Australia.

http://blogs.canoe.ca/parker/news/there-really-is-a-joe-hockey/

0ktema wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 12:33am:

0ktema wrote on Apr 9th, 2014 at 8:25pm: Christianity has abundantly overcome any historical penchant for violence and the separation of church and state has rightly limited it's influence in other areas. Perhaps I should have more correctly said - religiously motivated violence.

So the invasions of Afghanistan, Iraq, and Somalia, and the drones strikes in Pakistan and Yemen are not part of some CRUSADE?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br_70Kbdpow

True Colours wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 10:50am:

0ktema wrote on Apr 10th, 2014 at 12:33am: 0ktema wrote on Apr 9th, 2014 at 8:25pm: Christianity has abundantly overcome any historical penchant for violence and the separation of church and state has rightly limited it's influence in other areas. Perhaps I should have more correctly said - religiously motivated violence. So the invasions of Afghanistan, Iraq, and Somalia, and the drones strikes in Pakistan and Yemen are not part of some CRUSADE? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br_70Kbdpow

crusade
[kroo-seyd]
noun

1.(often initial capital letter) any of the military expeditions undertaken by the Christians of Europe in the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries for the recovery of the Holy Land from the Muslims.

^^^No, it can't mean this - as it is now the 21st century.

2.any war carried on under papal sanction.

^^^I doubt the Pope has/had much say in the matter.

3.any vigorous, aggressive movement for the defense or advancement of an idea, cause, etc.

^^^This sounds more like the relevant meaning!

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/crusade

Refugees are so keen to leave Australia that we are taking their passports away:


Quote:

Refugee professional gambler won’t return if allowed to go overseas, court told A REFUGEE turned professional gambler, who won Tattslotto twice last year and turned over more than $90 million in five years, was banned from holidaying abroad for fears he would not return... http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/refugee-professional-gambler-wont-return-if-allowed-to-go-overseas-court-told/story-fni0fee2-1226879872762