Bukari

Narrated Sulaiman bin Yasar:
I asked 'Aisha about the clothes soiled with semen. She replied, "I used to wash it off the clothes of Allah's Apostle and he would go for the prayer while water spots were still visible. "

Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:
I heard Sulaiman bin Yasar talking about the clothes soiled with semen. He said that 'Aisha had said, "I used to wash it off the clothes of Allah's Apostle and he would go for the prayers while water spots were still visible on them.


Narrated 'Aisha:
I used to wash the semen off the clothes of the Prophet and even then I used to notice one or more spots on them.

I'm sure there's something very dark and sinister here - but I'm not quite seeing it.

Must be my spineless muslim brain... :-/

It happened after his "thigh sessions" with her whilst she was six years old!

allah's apostle is the best and most glorious example for all mankind.

Thighing little girls, sleeping with dead women:


Quote:

Narrated by Ibn Abbas: "I (Muhammad) put on her my shirt that she may wear the clothes of heaven, and I SLEPT with her in her coffin (grave) that I may lessen the pressure of the grave. She was the best of Allah's creatures to me after Abu Talib"... The prophet was referring to Fatima, the mother of Ali.

No wonder muslims are the most backward people on the planet today.

What does the passage mean, Adamant?

What’s your theological take on it?

Adamant wrote on Apr 27^th, 2014 at 10:55am:

Bukari Narrated Sulaiman bin Yasar: I asked 'Aisha about the clothes soiled with semen. She replied, "I used to wash it off the clothes of Allah's Apostle and he would go for the prayer while water spots were still visible. " Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun: I heard Sulaiman bin Yasar talking about the clothes soiled with semen. He said that 'Aisha had said, "I used to wash it off the clothes of Allah's Apostle and he would go for the prayers while water spots were still visible on them. Narrated 'Aisha: I used to wash the semen off the clothes of the Prophet and even then I used to notice one or more spots on them.

Yeah so, what you want her to do, use a power point and a washing machine?

I think it means that Aisha was so busy washing semen off Muhammed Pbuh's pants that he often had to go to pray with wet patches on his crotch.

Adamant wrote on Apr 27^th, 2014 at 2:48pm:

It happened after his "thigh sessions" with her whilst she was six years old!

How do you know it was with her and not his other wives?

Why would he thigh his other wives? She was the only 6 year old.

Karnal wrote on Apr 27^th, 2014 at 6:14pm:

What does the passage mean, Adamant? What’s your theological take on it?

I reckon he was such a perfect man that after a "rewarding thighing session with Aisha" he  wiped his weenie on his dress.

This was because he could not get Fish for Tea as she was too young.

Life's tough for a Muslim Prophet. I can only hope the other Muslims didn't make fun of him for turning up at the Mosque smelling of wet semen. That sort of thing gets your head chopped off. Mocking Muhammed that is - the wet semen thing is probably normal.

Adamant wrote on Apr 27^th, 2014 at 2:48pm:

It happened after his "thigh sessions" with her whilst she was six years old!

I call BS. Where does it mention her age at the time of this hadeeth?


freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2014 at 7:04pm:

Why would he thigh his other wives? She was the only 6 year old.

Explain, if you can, how the presense of seamen on his clothing means that he was "thighing" a 6 year old.

Adamant wrote on Apr 27^th, 2014 at 7:18pm:

Karnal wrote on Apr 27th, 2014 at 6:14pm: What does the passage mean, Adamant? What’s your theological take on it? I reckon he was such a perfect man that after a "rewarding thighing session with Aisha" he  wiped his weenie on his dress. This was because he could not get Fish for Tea as she was too young.

I see. So it’s a loaves and fishes story - like a miracle?

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 27^th, 2014 at 7:34pm:

Adamant wrote on Apr 27th, 2014 at 2:48pm: It happened after his "thigh sessions" with her whilst she was six years old! I call BS. Where does it mention her age at the time of this hadeeth? freediver wrote on Apr 27th, 2014 at 7:04pm: Why would he thigh his other wives? She was the only 6 year old. Explain, if you can, how the presense of seamen on his clothing means that he was "thighing" a 6 year old.

Semen.

freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2014 at 6:22pm:

I think it means that Aisha was so busy washing semen off Muhammed Pbuh's pants that he often had to go to pray with wet patches on his crotch.

You're right. After reading all the Hadiths on this, that seems to be exactly what it's saying.

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 27^th, 2014 at 7:34pm:

Explain, if you can, how the presense of seamen

Perhaps Mo took her on his time travel donkey caught up with Noah at the time of the great flood, Then Noah and his crew also got in on the act.. It's the only plausible explanation I can think of at the Mo.

I thought you geniuses would have learned your lesson on trying to extrapolate dumb things from dumb things from the whole monkey's being stoned for adultery business.

Nothing new under the sun indeed.

It points to Aisha when she was 6 or so.

Reason:

Quote:

"O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?"  The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence.” (Bukhari 34:432)

It's quiet clear that allah's apostle was against coitus interruptus. 

he certainly told his men they should ejaculate within the bodies of women

If he didn't practice coitus interruptus (it It is better for you not to do it) his semen would have been inside his wives who were old and big enough.

As he was thighing Aisha, his semen would have been on his clothes.

Sex inside his other wives, means the semen was inside them.

Maybe he liked to wear his wives' clothes?

Adamant wrote on Apr 27^th, 2014 at 2:48pm:

It happened after his "thigh sessions" with her whilst she was six years old!

Was she only SIX YEARS OLD? That makes Muhammer a pedo.... . Oooops, I nearly said it.

moses wrote on Apr 28^th, 2014 at 6:19pm:

It points to Aisha when she was 6 or so.

Are you sure? Maybe she 3 or 2? Maybe she was unborn fetus? Why not make up anything? Facts are not important to Islamophobes are they?

True Colours wrote on May 2^nd, 2014 at 6:22pm:

Facts are not important to Islamophobes are they?

They certainly aren't

They are absolutely shameless.

I wonder if Yadda has a word for non-muslims who spew lies for the purpose of promoting an anti-islam agenda? Like a non-muslim version of taqqiya

Is there any information as to her age for marriage and consumation?  I've heard 6 and 9 respectively but I'm not sure where that comes from.

Marriage at age 6 to the 50 year old man next door (Muhammed). Consummated at age 9. Most Muslims seem to equate the onset of puberty with age of consent under Islamic law, based on this example, however there is no evidence that Aisha had reached puberty. Also, this interpretation usually allows for the marriage and cohabitation to occur, and the community 'trusts' the pedophile to wait until the little girl reaches puberty. Some Muslims interpret it to mean there is effectively no age of consent. The interpretation largely depends on whether they want to have sex with pre-pubescent girls. It is wrong to suggest that all Muslims think alike on this issue. Some Muslims even attempt a rather circuitous reasoning to arrive at age 15 for the consummation. These are the ones who want to set the age of consent at 15. According to these Muslims, Aisha herself cannot be trusted with important details like how old she was when Muhammed first had sex with her, when there are other ways of estimating her age.

freediver wrote on May 2^nd, 2014 at 7:37pm:

Marriage at age 6 to the 50 year old man next door (Muhammed). Consummated at age 9. Most Muslims seem to equate the onset of puberty with age of consent under Islamic law, based on this example, however there is no evidence that Aisha had reached puberty. Also, this interpretation usually allows for the marriage and cohabitation to occur, and the community 'trusts' the pedophile to wait until the little girl reaches puberty. Some Muslims interpret it to mean there is effectively no age of consent. The interpretation largely depends on whether they want to have sex with pre-pubescent girls. It is wrong to suggest that all Muslims think alike on this issue. Some Muslims even attempt a rather circuitous reasoning to arrive at age 15 for the consummation. These are the ones who want to set the age of consent at 15. According to these Muslims, Aisha herself cannot be trusted with important details like how old she was when Muhammed first had sex with her, when there are other ways of estimating her age.

You forgot to mention she was promised to somebody else before Mo. He had to change the mossie law to get to shag her. No big deal if you sprout the word of god I suppose.

Stratos wrote on May 2^nd, 2014 at 6:55pm:

Is there any information as to her age for marriage and consumation?  I've heard 6 and 9 respectively but I'm not sure where that comes from.

In those days a person was considered an adult when they reached puberty. So girls would usually become wives at this time - anywhere from 9-14 years-old. For Aishah this was 9 years old. Nobody at the time thought that this was a strange thing.

Of course the Talmud allows Jews to have sex with pre-pubescent 3 year-old girls - can we have a forum on Judaism yet Freediver?

Yes, he did invoke the 'will of God' to convince his neighbour he should be allowed to marry his six year old daughter.

Muhammed's is a noble and eternal example for all mankind to follow. It is wrong to suggest that all Muslims think this.

The truth about Muhammad and Aisha

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/sep/17/muhammad-aisha-truth

It seems to be arguing that Aisha cannot be trusted to recount her own age at the time of marriage and consummation, while conceding that most Muslims believe the ages of 6 and 9 that she specified. Is that about right?

It is pretty sick what mohammed did to that poor little girl and not only that it was his mates little girl. I can't stand pedos they make me sick why one would call one a prophet I have no idea.

Apparently Muhammed had a dream where an angel 'offered' the little girl to him. This was back in the days before Aisha was washing the semen of his clothes.

freediver wrote on May 2^nd, 2014 at 7:59pm:

It seems to be arguing that Aisha cannot be trusted to recount her own age at the time of marriage and consummation, while conceding that most Muslims believe the ages of 6 and 9 that she specified. Is that about right?

No the point is that is was normal at the time for women to marry upon reaching puberty.

Here the most relevant parts of the article:



Quote:

Writing about Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, the Orientalist scholar W Montgomery Watt wrote: "Of all the world's great men, none has been so much maligned as Muhammad." ...the Qur'an states that marriage is void unless entered into by consenting adults, Aisha must have entered puberty early... ...in seventh-century Arabia, adulthood was defined as the onset of puberty. (This much is true, and was also the case in Europe: five centuries after Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, 33-year-old King John of England married 12-year-old Isabella of Angoulême.) Interestingly, of the many criticisms of Muhammad made at the time by his opponents, none focused on Aisha's age at marriage. According to this perspective, Aisha may have been young, but she was not younger than was the norm at the time... ...a society without a birth registry and where people did not celebrate birthdays... ...What we do know is what the Qur'an says about marriage: that it is valid only between consenting adults, and that a woman has the right to choose her own spouse. As the living embodiment of Islam, Muhammad's actions reflect the Qur'an's teachings on marriage, even if the actions of some Muslim regimes and individuals do not... ...The Islamophobic depiction of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha as motivated by misplaced desire fits within a broader Orientalist depiction of Muhammad as a philanderer. This idea dates back to the crusades. According to the academic Kecia Ali: "Accusations of lust and sensuality were a regular feature of medieval attacks on the prophet's character and, by extension, on the authenticity of Islam." Since the early Christians heralded Christ as a model of celibate virtue, Muhammad – who had married several times – was deemed to be driven by sinful lust. This portrayal ignored the fact that before his marriage to Aisha, Muhammad had been married to Khadija, a powerful businesswoman 15 years his senior, for 25 years. When she died, he was devastated and friends encouraged him to remarry. A female acquaintance suggested Aisha, a bright and vivacious character... ...Aisha's union would also have cemented Muhammad's longstanding friendship with her father, Abu Bakr. As was the tradition in Arabia (and still is in some parts of the world today), marriage typically served a social and political function – a way of uniting tribes, resolving feuds, caring for widows and orphans, and generally strengthening bonds in a highly unstable and changing political environment. Of the women Muhammad married, the majority were widows. To consider the marriages of the prophet outside of these calculations is profoundly ahistorical. What the records are clear on is that Muhammad and Aisha had a loving and egalitarian relationship, which set the standard for reciprocity, tenderness and respect enjoined by the Qur'an. Insights into their relationship, such as the fact they liked to drink out of the same cup or race one another, are indicative of a deep connection which belies any misrepresentation of their relationship. To paint Aisha as a victim is completely at odds with her persona. She was certainly no wallflower. During a controversial battle in Muslim history, she emerged riding a camel to lead the troops. She was known for her assertive temperament and mischievous sense of humour – with Muhammad sometimes bearing the brunt of the jokes. During his lifetime, he established her authority by telling Muslims to consult her in his absence; after his death, she went to become one of the most prolific and distinguished scholars of her time. A stateswoman, scholar, mufti, and judge, Aisha combined spirituality, activism and knowledge and remains a role model for many Muslim women today. The gulf between her true legacy and her depiction in Islamophobic materials is not merely historically inaccurate, it is an insult to the memory of a pioneering woman. Those who manipulate her story to justify the abuse of young girls, and those who manipulate it in order to depict Islam as a religion that legitimises such abuse have more in common than they think. Both demonstrate a disregard for what we know about the times in which Muhammad lived, and for the affirmation of female autonomy which her story illustrates. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/sep/17/muhammad-aisha-truth

The legitimacy of “marrying” pre-pubescent girls who have not yet had their “monthly courses” is established both in the Qur’an and in the "perfect example" set by Muhammad for his Muslim followers.

The Qur'an:

Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same) (65:4)

The rule concerns divorce, which obviously implies marriage.  Muhammad wanted believing men to observe a three month waiting period before evicting their wives, to make sure that they weren’t pregnant.

Muhammad elsewhere encouraged his men to marry “young girls” for sexual pleasure:
"Allah's Apostle said to me, "Have you got married O Jabir?"  I replied, "Yes."  He asked "What, a virgin or a matron?" I replied, "Not a virgin but a matron."  He said, "Why did you not marry a young girl who would have fondled with you?" (Bukhari 59:382)

Lest there be any doubt by what he meant by “young,”

Muhammad set the example by marrying and having sex with Aisha when she was only 9-years-old:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: “Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine.” (Sahih Muslim 3309) This is confirmed in many other hadith as well.

According to the most reliable traditions, Aisha brought her dolls to Muhammad’s house for play (Muslim 3341) and he would fondle the little girl in the tub while taking baths with her (Bukhari 6:298).  Aisha was just a teenager by the time Muhammad died, but she had already spent over half her life in marriage to him

Even worse for Muslims is that part of the Qur’an was actually “revealed” while Muhammad was in bed with this little girl:
[Muhammad said] "…the Divine Inspirations do not come to me on any of the beds except that of Aisha." (Bukhari 47:755)

So, no... Muhammad did not condemn pedophilia.

Not even close.

Quote:

No the point is that is was normal at the time for women to marry upon reaching puberty.

Of course, there is always that one. But the article was quick to trot out the alternative age argument. And Muslims don't like confining Muhammed's actions to the backwardness of 7th century arab tribalism. Except for Gandalf of course. He has a secret method of interpreting these acts.

Was it normal for them to marry upon their 6th birthday?

They had to marry six year olds.It is the only way they can guarantee a virgin
What yukky people

Mattywisk wrote on May 2^nd, 2014 at 9:07pm:

The legitimacy of “marrying” pre-pubescent girls who have not yet had their “monthly courses” is established both in the Qur’an and in the "perfect example" set by Muhammad for his Muslim followers. The Qur'an: Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same) (65:4)

Hmmm. Are you a Catholic priest? You write like someone who has no idea how the female body works.

Let me enlighten you in regards to how monthly courses work; women who reach menopause, and many breastfeeding women will usually have irregular menstruation or none at all.




Mattywisk wrote on May 2^nd, 2014 at 9:07pm:

Muhammad elsewhere encouraged his men ::) to marry “young girls” for sexual pleasure: "Allah's Apostle said to me, "Have you got married O Jabir?"  I replied, "Yes."  He asked "What, a virgin or a matron?" I replied, "Not a virgin but a matron."  He said, "Why did you not marry a young girl who would have fondled with you?" (Bukhari 59:382) Lest there be any doubt by what he meant by “young,”

It is a bit dishonest for you to say it was an encouragement to all men. Jabir was a teenager, the Prophet felt that Jabir as a young man needed a young woman to satisfy his needs, not a tired old lady. Jabir then explained that he had married the woman altruistically because he wanted a woman who would be suited to help look after the younger siblings from his family of orphaned children.





Mattywisk wrote on May 2^nd, 2014 at 9:07pm:

Muhammad set the example

Yes, he set the example of every bride of his, apart from one, was a widow or divorcee. His first wife was 25 years his senior.



Mattywisk wrote on May 2^nd, 2014 at 9:07pm:

So, no... Muhammad did not condemn pedophilia.

Incorrect, Islam has established the age of consent does not come before puberty, and that in the case of precocious puberty that age does not come before 9 years-old.

This agrees with modern science. Biologically, an adult in any species is one that has reached the age of reproduction. Psychologically it is established that humans reach the age of criminal understanding (knowing the difference between right and wrong at puberty. Medicine establishes that it is normal for a girl to attain puberty at between 9 and 14 years of age.


Now go and find another religion that establishes an age of consent - don't bother with Judaism, because the references from the Talmud have been posted before that say sex with 3 year-old girls is allowed.

True Colours wrote on May 2^nd, 2014 at 11:19pm:

Hmmm. Are you a Catholic priest? You write like someone who has no idea how the female body works. Let me enlighten you in regards to how monthly courses work; women who reach menopause, and many breastfeeding women will usually have irregular menstruation or none at all.

Hmmm. No I am not a Catholic priest? I write like someone who doesn't need to make excuses for a pedo some sick people call a prophet.

Let me enlighten you in regards to how monthly courses work also; women who reach menopause, and many breastfeeding women will usually have irregular menstruation or none at all, also like young children around the age of 6 who have none at all of which that scripture does apply too.I guess you missed that one.




Mattywisk wrote on May 2^nd, 2014 at 9:07pm:

Muhammad elsewhere encouraged his men ::) to marry “young girls” for sexual pleasure: "Allah's Apostle said to me, "Have you got married O Jabir?"  I replied, "Yes."  He asked "What, a virgin or a matron?" I replied, "Not a virgin but a matron."  He said, "Why did you not marry a young girl who would have fondled with you?" (Bukhari 59:382) Lest there be any doubt by what he meant by “young,”

True Colours wrote on May 2^nd, 2014 at 11:19pm:

It is a bit dishonest for you to say it was an encouragement to all men. Jabir was a teenager, the Prophet felt that Jabir as a young man needed a young woman to satisfy his needs, not a tired old lady. Jabir then explained that he had married the woman altruistically because he wanted a woman who would be suited to help look after the younger siblings from his family of orphaned children.

Not dishonest at all.
It is the young girls pre menstration who were allowed to fondle. Surely he would have said laid waste to you if he was talking about hooking up with a strapping young virgin. Fondle is too tame in your implied context. Elsewhere folding and thighing is allowed with kids.



Mattywisk wrote on May 2^nd, 2014 at 9:07pm:

Muhammad set the example

True Colours wrote on May 2^nd, 2014 at 11:19pm:

Yes, he set the example of every bride of his, apart from one, was a widow or divorcee. His first wife was 25 years his senior.

Yes and poor little Aiesha was 6 years old being married to a dirty old man in his 50's.



Mattywisk wrote on May 2^nd, 2014 at 9:07pm:

So, no... Muhammad did not condemn pedophilia.

True Colours wrote on May 2^nd, 2014 at 11:19pm:

Incorrect, Islam has established the age of consent does not come before puberty, and that in the case of precocious puberty that age does not come before 9 years-old. This agrees with modern science. Biologically, an adult in any species is one that has reached the age of reproduction. Psychologically it is established that humans reach the age of criminal understanding (knowing the difference between right and wrong at puberty. Medicine establishes that it is normal for a girl to attain puberty at between 9 and 14 years of age.

Yes funny that.

htt
p://ww
w.youtube.com/watch?v=eZKXHZPJpVI



Now how about you go and find another sick religion to make up BS excuses for. Everyone can see it for what it is.
You could always catch up with the latest progressive islamic move that allows you to have sex with dead women in farewell sex.

htt
ps://ww
w.youtube.com/watch?v=oml5AmBSygM


PULL THE OTHER ONE .... your BS doesn't fly with me. You don't even know what you are talking about or where islam is heading today.

Quote:

Let me enlighten you in regards to how monthly courses work; women who reach menopause, and many breastfeeding women will usually have irregular menstruation or none at all.

Most Muslims interpret this to mean pre-pubescent girls. I can link you to major Muslim websites that interpret it that way. Muhammed never mentioned anything at all to do with age of consent. The few verses that do go near the subject permit sex with pre-pubescent girls. That is why in conservative Muslim countries they cannot really stop the practice, because it is unIslamic to forbid it.


Quote:

It is a bit dishonest for you to say it was an encouragement to all men. Jabir was a teenager, the Prophet felt that Jabir as a young man needed a young woman to satisfy his needs, not a tired old lady.

This Muhammed sounds like a delightful bloke.


Quote:

Yes, he set the example of every bride of his, apart from one, was a widow or divorcee. His first wife was 25 years his senior.

And just happened to have buckets of money. With the rest of them, Muhammed was usually the reason they were widows. It is the height of cynicism to equate this with some kind of nobility on Muhammed's part. He literally killed the men and rode off on the women, and ever since then Muslims have been compelled to put a positive spin on it.


Quote:

Incorrect, Islam has established the age of consent does not come before puberty

Funny how it can do that without Muhammed ever mentioning the concept.


Quote:

This agrees with modern science.

Yes. Science says "go forth and make love to nine year old girls, for Allah permits it, and it is wrong to forbid what Allah permits". I heard him say it myself.

FD’s going to have fun with this one.

Looks like you’ve started another 20 pager, True.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts Karnal.

What’s your point, FD?

freediver wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 12:43pm:

I would be interested to hear your thoughts Karnal.

I think that was pretty clear.