The difference between pre-Islamic Ramadan and Islamic Ramadan is, pre-Islamic Ramadan was practiced by a Pagan tribe in Arabia, and Islamic Ramadan is practiced by Muslims all over the world.
During Ramadan, Pagan Arabs used to abstain from food, water, sexual contact etc. Muslims practice the same Pagan Ramadan rituals.
It is a well-known fact that Islam adapted the Pagan practice of fasting. There is a Hadith in Sahih Bukhari that mentions the ritual.
Bukhari 5:58:172 – Narrated Aisha: ‘Ashura was a day on which the tribe of Quraish used to fast in the pre-lslamic period of ignorance. The Prophet also used to fast on this day. So when he migrated to Medina, he fasted on it and ordered (the Muslims) to fast on it. When the fasting of Ramadan was enjoined, it became optional for the people to fast or not to fast on the day of Ashura.’
The fasting for Ashura (10th of Muharram) originated from a Quraish Pagan practice. Ramadan fasting came later from Sabian tradition. Sabians are mentioned in several verses of the Quran [al-Baqarah 2:62], [al-Hajj 22:17] , [al-Maa’idah 5:69] along with Christians and Jewish. Sabians, a non-Muslim Iraqi tribe, believed in monotheism, observed fasting 30 days a year, and prayed 5 times a day.
Not only Ramadan fasting, other Pagan rituals were also Islamized. The Ka’aba in Mecca was a center of idol-worship. 360 idols were kept in the Ka’aba. According to Hadith Bukhari 3:43:658 Narrated Abdullah bin Masud: The Prophet entered Mecca and (at that time) there were three hundred-and-sixty idols around the Ka’aba. He started stabbing the idols with a stick he had in his hand and reciting: “Truth (Islam) has come and Falsehood (disbelief) has vanished.”
The Black-stone or al-Ḥajar al-Aswad of the Ka’aba became the central shrine object in Islam. It was one of the many stones and idols venerated by pre-Islamic Pagans. The Black Stone was kissed by people during pre-Islamic pagan worship. Muhammad did not completely abolish Idol worship, he made the Black Stone stay and allowed people to continue the practice of kissing the stone. It is the same pre-Islamic Pagan stone that Muslims kiss today during Hajj and Umrah. The Islamic historians believe that the black stone was a pagan deity called ‘Al-Lat’, one of the three daughters of Allah, the Pagan moon-god. She was once venerated as a cubic rock at Ta’if in Arabia.

Hisham ibn-Al-Kalbi (819 CE) in his ‘The book of Idols’ wrote that ‘Al-lat stood in al-Ta’if, and was more recent than Manah. She was a cubic rock beside which a certain Jew used to prepare his barley porridge (sawiq). Her custody was in the hands of the banu-’Attab ibn-Malik of the Thayif, who had built an edifice over her. [...]She is the idol which God mentioned when He said, “Have you seen al-lat and al-Uzza?” (Surah 53:19)
Muslims in the 21st century believe that the Black Stone fell from the heaven during the era of Adam and Eve. They also believe that the stone was originally white, but it turned black because of absorbing human sins.
Pre-Islamic Pagans prayed five times a day facing Mecca. Persian Zoroastrian tribe prayed five times a day too, in the direction of the Sun or fire temple. Before prayers, Zoroastrians cleaned themselves or practiced ablution. Ablution and the prayers for 5 times are not something Islam invented. The Hadith [Sahih Bukhari Book 8, no. 345] tells us that when Muhammad met Allah in heaven, Allah demanded 50 prayers per day. But with the help of Moses, Muhammad bargained with Allah and finally he was successful to reduce 50 prayers per day to 5 prayers per day. Even the Quran (4:28) says, ‘God wishes to lighten your burden, for the human being is created weak’.

During Hajj, Muslims walk between two mountains seven times. It is also a pre-Islamic practice. Let’s see what the Quran and the Hadith say about the special mountain walk.
Hadith Bukhari. Volume 2, Book 26, Number 710: Narrated ‘Asim: I asked Anas bin Malik: “Did you dislike to perform Tawaf between mountain Al-Safa and mountain Al-Marwa?” He said, “Yes, as it was of the ceremonies of the days of the Pre-lslamic period of ignorance, till Allah revealed: ‘Verily! Al-Safa and Al-Marwa are among the rites (or symbols) of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who performs the pilgrimage to the Ka’ba, or performs ‘Umrah, to perform Tawaf between them.’ ” (Quran 2.158)
Many non-Islamic Pagan rituals are now known as Islamic rituals. Pagan’s crescent moon: the symbol of the moon god, circumambulation, Ihram etc. were taken or stolen by Islam. Muslims now begin their Ramadan fasting after seeing a crescent moon in the sky. Ramadan is a kind of a month-long food festival for Muslims. It is supposed to be a month of sacrifice and Muslims are expected to eat less. But in reality, Muslims eat more in Ramadan than any other month. Some people call Ramadan the holy month of feasting, instead of the holy month of fasting. They make sense.
There are some unscientific, nonsense verses in the Quran about Ramadan.

Quran.Sura 2:187: “Eat and drink until white thread of dawn appears to you and then complete your fast till the night appears.”
Quran.Sura 18:83-86:“Zulkharnain reached the setting place of the sun. He saw that it set in a pool of black muddy water.”
Quran.Sura 67:3-5; 37:6-9: “We created 7 heavens one above the other and decorated the lowest heaven with lamps – The Stars. We made such lamps as missiles to drive away Satan, who try to listen the conversation of the higher group — i.e., Conversation between Allah and his angels.”
There are many Hadith on Ramadan too. The most interesting ones are the ones about Muhammad kissing his wives and the way he permitted old men to embrace their young wives but prevented young men from embracing their young wives. Needless to say, Muhammad was old.
Hadith. Bukhari, Vol.3:149: narrated Aisha, ‘Muhammad used to kiss and embrace his wives while he was fasting and he had more power to control his desires than any of you.’
Hadith.Bukhari, Vol.3:151: Narrated Zainab: (daughter of Umme Salma) that her mother said, The prophet and I used to take a bath from one water pot and he used to kiss me while he was fasting.”

Hadith. Book 13, No.2381: Narrated Abu Hurayrah: A man asked Muhammad whether one who was fasting could embrace his wife and he gave him permission; but when another man came to him, and asked him, he forbade him. The one to whom he gave permission was an old man and the one whom he forbade was a youth.
Hadith. Book 13, No. 2380: Narrated Aisha: Prophet Muhammad used to kiss and suck her tongue, while he was fasting.

Just lovely.

So is lent, Easter, Christmas, and almost every saint day in our callender.

ALL religious festivals were originally pagan. Easter was a fertility festival - it represents Beltaine, the Spring Equinox. Christmas is the Winter Solstice, or Yule.

Go to "pagan" India and you’ll see the same festivals called different names all around the country. A time to reap,  a time to sew, a time for every purpose under Heaven.

In the industrial world, we’ve lost these times in the year and forgotten their purpose. Agricultural societies remember them because they fit in with planting and harvest cycles.

Whats the point of the article?

Few of my lebanese christian friends fast, so is the ramadan fast in middle east christianity paganism?

fasting is good self discipline and good for the soul.

Who cares where it came from?

polite_gandalf wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 1:54pm:

fasting is good self discipline and good for the soul. Who cares where it came from?

People that like exposing the Islamic lies they make up about their religion not originating from paganism. Mohammed was a pagan in the Quarish clan and worshiped the moon God Hubal. The only reason Islam was invented was to rally the people under a pretend monotheistic God because Christianity was doing so good at the time so he could rally the troops. When he tried to introduce the worship of the moon god Hubals daughters into Islam that never went down a treat so he said the verses came from satan hence Salmon Rushie exposing the satanic verses.

and who says its good for the soul I call BS ?

Unlike Christianity which did not arise from paganism and only scheduled its holidays at the same time as the pagans would. That doesn't make Christianity pagan at all.

Karnal wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 11:39am:

So is lent, Easter, Christmas, and almost every saint day in our callender.

Incorrect. As far as saints go in the catholic cult I guess they can do what they want with them.


Karnal wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 11:39am:

ALL religious festivals were originally pagan. Easter was a fertility festival - it represents Beltaine, the Spring Equinox. Christmas is the Winter Solstice, or Yule.

Utter rubbish. Just because they had their own festivals at the same time as the pagans doen't mean they originated in them.


Karnal wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 11:39am:

Go to "pagan" India and you’ll see the same festivals called different names all around the country. A time to reap,  a time to sew, a time for every purpose under Heaven.

No, what you will see is other pagan festivals. Nothing more, nothing less.


Karnal wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 11:39am:

In the industrial world, we’ve lost these times in the year and forgotten their purpose. Agricultural societies remember them because they fit in with planting and harvest cycles.

We haven't lost these times or forgotten their purpose at all.
That may be true with some people but to make a blanketed statement like that is a bit out there as most are highly documented.

wally1 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 1:42pm:

Whats the point of the article?

Read the title.


wally1 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 1:42pm:

Few of my lebanese christian friends fast,

So ?


wally1 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 1:42pm:

so is the ramadan fast in middle east christianity paganism?

Christianity doesn't have a ramandan fast so the answer would be no.

Why do you think we have Easter eggs and Christmas trees, Matty?

These festivals are almost exclusively pagan. Jesus was not born on Dec 25. This date was used to celebrate the pagan festival of Yuletide.

Nor was he "resurrected" during Easter. There’s a school of thought that shows the construction of Jesus was a Roman pagan project in itself. The comparisons in the lives of Jesus and pagan gods like Dionysus are too spooky to be a coincidence.

The Muslim take on Christianity is useful. Muslims hold that the construction of Jesus as God is pagan. Worshipping a man, or a "son of God" - a sun god - is very pagan. Rome was full of such human gods who died for the worshipper’s sins. Dionysus, for example, was also crucified on a tree and born of a virgin. Osiris descended to the underworld for three days to suffer for humankind’s sins, only to be resurrected in his original form.

Jesus is a pagan god for millions. The point of the gospels was not the creation of another human god and the official religion of Rome. There is something much more useful there.

Perhaps Y will tell you what that is.

Karnal wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 2:36pm:

Why do you think we have Easter eggs and Christmas trees, Matty?

Why do you think easter eggs and christmas trees have anything to do with Christianity ?


Karnal wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 2:36pm:

These festivals are almost exclusively pagan. Jesus was not born on Dec 25. This date was used to celebrate the pagan festival of Yuletide.

And Christians use the date to celebrate Jesus his birthday so what. It doesn't make the christian celebration another pagan festival at all.

Mattywisk wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 2:41pm:

Karnal wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 2:36pm: Why do you think we have Easter eggs and Christmas trees, Matty? Why do you think easter eggs and christmas trees have anything to do with Christianity ? Karnal wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 2:36pm: These festivals are almost exclusively pagan. Jesus was not born on Dec 25. This date was used to celebrate the pagan festival of Yuletide. And Christians use the date to celebrate Jesus his birthday so what. It doesn't make the christian celebration another pagan festival at all.

You don’t think changing the date of Jesus’ birthday to the the Winter Solstice, celebrating with pagan symbols like tannenbaums, Father Christmas, elves and mistletoe, and having a big jolly drunken feast is pagan?

Perhaps you missed religious education at school, Matty. Did you learn anything about Christianity?

Karnal wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 3:12pm:

Mattywisk wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 2:41pm: Karnal wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 2:36pm: Why do you think we have Easter eggs and Christmas trees, Matty? Why do you think easter eggs and christmas trees have anything to do with Christianity ? Karnal wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 2:36pm: These festivals are almost exclusively pagan. Jesus was not born on Dec 25. This date was used to celebrate the pagan festival of Yuletide. And Christians use the date to celebrate Jesus his birthday so what. It doesn't make the christian celebration another pagan festival at all. You don’t think changing the date of Jesus’ birthday to the the Winter Solstice, celebrating with pagan symbols like tannenbaums, Father Christmas, elves and mistletoe, and having a big jolly drunken feast is pagan? Perhaps you missed religious education at school, Matty. Did you learn anything about Christianity?

I can celebrate Jesus birthday every day of the week if I choose. He was still born on the same day DERRR. Am I holding a pagan festival LMAO nope. Who is celebrating it with pagan symbols like tannenbaums, Father Christmas, elves and mistletoe, and having a big jolly drunken feast. Gee guess who. The pagans and hypocrites. DERR.

Perhaps you missed basic logic and commonsense being taught at school. You clearly don't know anything about Christianity at all. If having Christian celebrations on pagan festival days gets up your nose well tuff titties. It still doesn't make them pagan celebrations no matter how many times you say it.

Mattywisk wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 3:21pm:

Who is celebrating it with pagan symbols like tannenbaums, Father Christmas, elves and mistletoe, and having a big jolly drunken feast. Gee guess who. The pagans and hypocrites. DERR.

Heaven forbid anyone have any fun on their holidays ::)

Stratos wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 5:14pm:

Mattywisk wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 3:21pm: Who is celebrating it with pagan symbols like tannenbaums, Father Christmas, elves and mistletoe, and having a big jolly drunken feast. Gee guess who. The pagans and hypocrites. DERR. Heaven forbid anyone have any fun on their holidays ::)

Heaven forbid anyone having fun without needing to get drunk and hanging up silly pagan objects on their holidays. ::)

This thread is garbage, it clearly displays the ignorance of the author in the history of Arabia, and the influence of the Abrahamic religion on the Arabs. The paganism of Arabia was merely a corruption that occurred over 2500 years from the original monotheistic tradition handed down to the Arabs by Abraham. Without written texts to maintain the orthodoxy of ono theism, the Arabs mostly deviated to paganism over the millennia.


Fasting was commanded by all of God's prophets.



Quote:

O you who have believed, decreed upon you is fasting as it was decreed upon those before you the Quran, al-Baqarah, 183

Moses ordered his followers to fast, and even today many Jews and Christians practice some sort of fasting.


Quote:

The Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) 26 The Lord said to Moses, 27 “The tenth day of this seventh month is the Day of Atonement. Hold a sacred assembly and deny yourselves, and present a food offering to the Lord...29 Those who do not deny themselves on that day must be cut off from their people. - Leviticus 23

Quote:

A ta'anit or taanis (in Ashkenaz pronunciation) or taʿanith in Classical Hebrew is a fast in Judaism in which one abstains from all food and drink, including water. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta%27anit

Quote:

Fasting is a practice in several Christian denominations or other churches. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasting#Christianity

For Catholics Christians, Lent is the major season of fasting, imitative of the forty-day fast of Jesus (peace be upon him).
In the fourth century it was observed as six weeks of fasting before Easter or before Holy Week. It was adjusted to forty days of actual fasting in most places in the seventh century

The Bible says Jesus fasted:


Quote:

Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. - Matthew 4:1-2

 




Quote:

Moses was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant--the Ten Commandments. - Exodus 34:28

True Colours wrote on May 6^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

Moses ordered his followers to fast,

And there's a good chance this is where the pagans got it from. The traditions of Abraham had an enormous influence on the Arab peninsula for centuries.

There are a lot of islamic practices that the sceptics cite as being practiced by the pagans before them - without considering that the pagans themselves borrowed it from jewish or christian tradition before them.

True Colours wrote on May 6^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

This thread is garbage, it clearly displays the ignorance of the author in the history of Arabia, and the influence of the Abrahamic religion on the Arabs.

No that just displayed your ignornance.


True Colours wrote on May 6^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

The paganism of Arabia was merely a corruption that occurred over 2500 years from the original monotheistic tradition handed down to the Arabs by Abraham.

Nice tale but again incorrect.


True Colours wrote on May 6^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

Without written texts to maintain the orthodoxy of ono theism, the Arabs mostly deviated to paganism over the millennia.

HA ha ha ha oh that's gold.



True Colours wrote on May 6^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

Fasting was commanded by all of God's prophets.

Fasting has been around in most religions pagan included for years.


True Colours wrote on May 6^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

Quote: O you who have believed, decreed upon you is fasting as it was decreed upon those before you the Quran, al-Baqarah, 183

So.


True Colours wrote on May 6^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

Moses ordered his followers to fast, and even today many Jews and Christians practice some sort of fasting. Quote: The Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) 26 The Lord said to Moses, 27 “The tenth day of this seventh month is the Day of Atonement. Hold a sacred assembly and deny yourselves, and present a food offering to the Lord...29 Those who do not deny themselves on that day must be cut off from their people. - Leviticus 23 [quote]A ta'anit or taanis (in Ashkenaz pronunciation) or taʿanith in Classical Hebrew is a fast in Judaism in which one abstains from all food and drink, including water. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta%27anit

Quote:

Fasting is a practice in several Christian denominations or other churches. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasting#Christianity

[/quote]

Bogey man eh.


True Colours wrote on May 6^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

For Catholics Christians, Lent is the major season of fasting, imitative of the forty-day fast of Jesus (peace be upon him). In the fourth century it was observed as six weeks of fasting before Easter or before Holy Week. It was adjusted to forty days of actual fasting in most places in the seventh century The Bible says Jesus fasted: Quote: Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. - Matthew 4:1-2   [quote]Moses was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant--the Ten Commandments. - Exodus 34:28

[/quote]

So What.

The original post was still correct.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 6^th, 2014 at 7:53pm:

True Colours wrote on May 6th, 2014 at 10:45am: Moses ordered his followers to fast, And there's a good chance this is where the pagans got it from. The traditions of Abraham had an enormous influence on the Arab peninsula for centuries. There are a lot of islamic practices that the sceptics cite as being practiced by the pagans before them - without considering that the pagans themselves borrowed it from jewish or christian tradition before them.

In the context of mohammed and islam it originated from his pagan practices before claiming that he was a prophet. The Quaran wasn't even around then.