No dole before 25: youth will have to earn or learn   :(

    PATRICIA KARVELAS
    The Australian
    May 03, 2014


TOUGH new “learn or earn” rules that will deprive all people younger than 25 from receiving the general unemployment payment and push them onto the lower-paying Youth Allowance are set to be unveiled in the federal budget.    

The Weekend Australian can reveal that the Abbott government’s first budget will contain a huge welfare reform package with a range of measures, including extending by three years the period before which young ­people can apply for the New­start Allowance.      :(

The government will pitch the change as a measure to force young people into training for “real jobs”.

Currently, young people can apply for Newstart, which pays $510 a fortnight, when they turn 22. Until then, they can receive Youth Allowance, the full rate of which is $414 a fortnight.

The changes will kick in from January 1 next year and will save millions from the budget bottom line.

The latest figures, from March, reveal that the number of Newstart recipients had grown by 7.5 per cent over the previous 12 months, from 682,120 to 733,601. The number of Youth Allowance recipients rose 6.8 per cent, from 106,244 to 113,456.

Under the “earn or learn” welfare crackdown, school-leavers could also face a six-month waiting period before they can apply for Youth Allowance.   :(      

The changes to unemployment and Youth Allowance eligibility fit into a broader package of welfare cuts and reforms that the Abbott government is preparing as it seeks to overhaul the commonwealth budget and take control over what it has described as a “budget emergency”.

The federal budget, which Joe Hockey will deliver on May 13, will respond to the National Commission of Audit report by accepting some of its proposals but also finding other savings to meet the central target, of both the audit report and the coming budget, of producing a budget surplus by 2023-24.

Healthcare and welfare will be the federal budget’s key targets for long-term fiscal reform.

Where your money goes

The Weekend Australian has learned that controls for the Disability Support Pension will also be tightened in the budget, including rolling reviews of recipients. A senior source said the reviews could occur as frequently as every three months, to determine whether people are still eligible for the payment.

Other changes will include that, from July 1 this year, jobseekers aged 18-30 who have been unemployed for a year or more and are receiving Newstart or Youth Allowance will receive $2500 if they get a job and remain off benefits for 12 months.

A further $4000 will be paid if they are employed for two years. From July 1, jobseekers in receipt of Newstart, Youth Allowance or the Parenting Payment can also receive up to $6000 for relocating to a regional area to take up a job. Up to $3000 will be paid to eligible jobseekers who relocate from a regional area to a metropolitan area to take up a job.

Australia is facing a youth unemployment crisis amid an explosion in the number of young people actively looking for a job and living on welfare payments.

The audit commission called this week for a new rule to tackle youth unemployment by forcing young single people aged 22-30, without dependants or special exemptions, to move to areas of higher employment or lose access to benefits after 12 months on the dole.

It also called for an increase to the income-test withdrawal (taper) rate from 50 per cent to 75 per cent for recipients of Newstart and other related allowances.

The commission argued that the current income-test arrangements mean that a single person with a private income of about $25,000 a year can still access the Newstart Allowance.

“This is almost twice the maximum payment of Newstart Allowance and is relatively high for a safety net payment,” it said.

It is proposed that the income-test taper rate be aligned with that recommended for pension payments of 75 per cent, to “more appropriately target safety net payments”.

Under the new income test, a single person can still earn about $19,000 a year before losing access to Newstart.

The commission has also called for those older than 60 who are on working-age payments including Newstart, the Widow Allowance and Sickness Allowance to receive payment cuts. People older than 60 currently receive higher rates of assistance.

The changes would “make them consistent with those for other recipients”, the commission said. With the bulk of employment services provided through Job Services Australia due to expire next year, the commission recommended the government develop options to improve the structure of the job-matching system to lower average costs per jobseeker.

Welfare groups and the National Union of Students have criticised the Youth Allowance as being too low for young people in cities to live outside the family home, and delaying the age of independence.      :(

Maree O’Halloran, from the National Welfare Rights Network, said young adults should not have to wait until they were 25 to be granted independence from their parents. “There are already many proposed budget cuts which will hit students and unemployed young people, and this one is particularly short-sighted,’’ she said. “The parental means test for Youth Allowance hits families with incomes over $48,000. The reality is many parents will struggle to support adult children financially, the result being hardship all round.”

I think one of the main things is to stop the entitlement we are breeding..young people think its a natural, if they dont work centrelink will send them enough to get by on...it isnt right.. it should not be accepted as normal..

if you get something from the govt then you shoul.d have to give something back.. and if that means educating yourself so be it..

it is time volunteer work in a lot of instances was a paid job... for instance meals on wheels..it can be a part time job..its just a thought... but when we have generations of people getting paid NOT to work. I cannot see them volunteering in the future to work for nothing..

wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 9:05am:

Welfare groups and the National Union of Students have criticised the Youth Allowance as being too low for young people in cities to live outside the family home, and delaying the age of independence.      :( Maree O’Halloran, from the National Welfare Rights Network, said young adults should not have to wait until they were 25 to be granted independence from their parents. “There are already many proposed budget cuts which will hit students and unemployed young people, and this one is particularly short-sighted,’’ she said. “The parental means test for Youth Allowance hits families with incomes over $48,000. The reality is many parents will struggle to support adult children financially, the result being hardship all round.”

do you think its the tax payers job to help people leave home????????

Well there you have have it, a liberal government.  Cut the dole for young people, and get older people to work till 70.      :(

wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 9:15am:

Well there you have have it, a liberal government.  Cut the dole for young people, and get older people to work till 70.      :(

and a labor govt cut off single mothers pensions  and were raising the retiring age to 67...


why dont you find jobs crook instead of whingeing about what the unemployed dont get..as a unionist through and through thats what you should be doing.I dont think the unemployed join unions do they?

Oh I see, so if labor put the pension age up to 67, and I am not saying that was right.  Its alright for liberal to put it up to 70 is it ????.      :( 

wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 9:24am:

Oh I see, so if labor put the pension age up to 67, and I am not saying that was right.  Its alright for liberal to put it up to 70 is it ????.      :(

what I am saying is... not a lot of difference and you tend to not complain about what labor did..



we do notice you know.....its the times mate we are moving on.. it was the same howling when it went from 60 to 65...get over it..its not happening tomorrow..

dont forget the shorter working week...and when you get your way everything will be closed at weekends.. so it will be a 5 day week... also dont forget HARD WORK... whats that anymore..??? even mines are dug by huge machines today... HARD WORK aint what it once was...

what a stuid idea ...

not everyone is cut out for university, and there are a shortage of jobs ..... the government is basically handing these kids over to the crime gangs ...

.
Same old blame the victim mentality which put the smirk on Keating's twisted features

Anyone alive back then will always remember the Bankstown Slug sloping through crowds of unemployed youth while taunting them to 'get a job'

Keating, who'd had only one job in his pointless life.  And he'd been sacked from that one job.  For insubordination and arrogance

Went to school to age 13 or 14.  Yet they made him the Treasurer.  Same Treasurer who drove this nation down to the point it's never recovered.  While midget drunkard Hawke seemed to spend most of his conscious moments at Asian racetracks according to the media at the time

Blame the victim

Which is why both pretences of political parties don't want you to know about the Lima Declaration.  Don't want you to know that beginning in March 1975, 30 percent of all Australian jobs and manufacturing were sent to Asia

same Asia which is now buying all that unaffordable real estate

same Asia and other 3rd worlders who now have a new middle class larger than the entire population of the US

Asia, India, etc. have jobs

They have money

They can afford to send their kids to Australian universities

And they can afford to buy the top grades while hard working, intelligent Aussie kids are awarded the dross grades


Oh, Abbott and Hockey don't want you to work out that there ARE no jobs in Australia

Instead, the Mad Monk and Fatboy are pretending there is so MUCH work in Australia that 70 year olds are in hot demand !

And they neglected to educate Aussie kids to know that unemployment rose in Australia simultaneous with the outsourcing of Aussie jobs to the 3rd world

So THEY blame the unemployed and elderly

And the unemployed youth and elderly blame themselves

This isn't right

This stinks


Since March 1975 when the initial 30% of Aussie jobs were despatched overseas, the outsourcing has continued

There are FEW jobs in Australia now.  And nowhere near enough to soak up all those who're desperately seeking work

The few jobs left are given to migrants !


Mum and Dad are supposed to support their kids to age 25

Saving this stinking pretence of government billions so they can send it to the Congo or somewhere

Then what?

What happens when the kids turn 25?

That's right.  There are no jobs waiting for them anyway

So they'll have to go on welfare which wouldn't feed a cat.  And they'll feel like crap into the bargain


So why isn't our government investing in Aussie manufacturing?

Why aren't Aussie jobs being returned to our shores?

Why is there so much generous financial assistance, health and dental care and free accomodation for migrants?

All at the same time as middle-aged Aussies work their guts out in a shrinking marketplace. In order to support themselves and their kids -- kids they've already sacrificed for, raised and educated ?

Do our politicians deserve to be dragged from the panelled suites WE paid for

and given a good kicking

before being jailed for life

for political treachery ?


I think they do

I think they deserve the firing squad -- Hawke, Keating, Howard at least


Instead, those bludgers are living in luxury as reward for destroying our nation

which not so long ago had the greatest quality of life in the world

and which has been deliberately reduced to penury, unemployment, hopelessness and generations of ruined lives


Don't let them blame the victim

Don't buy it

Get angry

Get active

One of the best posts I've ever read on this topic.

I don't agree with it all, but do agree in general.

Well said!  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

John Smith wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 9:31am:

what a stuid idea ... not everyone is cut out for university, and there are a shortage of jobs ..... the government is basically handing these kids over to the crime gangs ...

Besides that, why should the higher education institutions have to have people that really don't want to be there in the first place?

It's the same as sticking them in the military, which incidentally, is the reason behind this policy, the new 'gap year' that was a failed option a few years back.

Can anyone see the reasoning behind the 'let's get tough on youth' policy? Well.......come on guys, you know you'd be better off in the defense force, it's only for a year (but good luck getting out after one year).

Wot ya gunna do boys and girls? sit back and take it?

Or.........join the revolution!!!!!!!!!!

' It's the same as sticking them in the military'

--------------

Yes and hopefully Aussies see through that now

Especially those Aussies whose children were sent off to kill and die in Afghanistan and the Mid East

Reduce the cream of society to penury, hopelessness and guilt

They've done it before

many times


And parents get a Made in China 'Aussie' bit of rag aka flag

and a portrait of their son and daughter in uniform to sit on the mantelpiece

While frauds and killers who profit from war and lust for it

describe those dead kids as 'heroes'

Small comfort to those left to grieve for life

But hey, bodies are cheap

It's the uniforms which have risen in price.  Last week it was announced that in the past decade or so the cost (to you and I) of outfitting those kids for war has risen from ten thousand dollars to over thirty thousand

But the bodies remain cheap.  Cannon fodder.  Send those unemployed kids off to abbatoirs overseas

to curry favour with USrael.  To protect Australia's backside


But there's no need for it.  Afghanistan did nothing to us.  Nor did Iraq

In any case, the pretexts for those and other wars is revealed now as fraudulent in document dumps in the US

War is profit

Life is cheap

And if those kids emerge relatively ok physically -- their families are often left with mind-scrambled wreckage to deal with.  Or the experimental vaccinations to which 'our troops' were subjected result in birth defects, mental problems, suicides

Abbott's ok.  He has three daughters and none of them look as if they're planning a career in the armed services

Howard's kids are ok.  They're working for Howard's buddies in the US in finance and law -- those nice cushy jobs that pay the most for the least work and least risk

Blair's kids are doing fine, just like Howard's

Bush's kids, Clinton's kid -- all of them.  They'll never have to apply for the dole or die in the dirt in a foreign land with which we 'make friends'  a few years later

I sincerely hope Aussies don't cave to the push to join the armed services just for the sake of a job

In fact I hope Aussies strike against the armed services and refuse to sign up, leaving Abbott scratching for human sacrifices to offer up to the warmongering USrael

Let's take it further:  I hope Aussies refuse to join the armed services and refuse to put another generation of patsies, victims and cannon fodder on the planet

That will leave all those migrants who claim they want to be Aussie citizens.  Let's see them put on a uniform for Abbott and USrael.  Let's see if migrants are prepared to send their kids off to kill and die so warmongers can profit

Somehow I suspect we'll be waiting a long time.  And that will be good, in my opinion

Won't happen, course not.  But be great, wouldn't it, if leaders were forced to lead from the front.  Get Netanyahu and Abbott, Howard and the entire US congress out there leading the charge in some tin-pot uniform against the next contrived 'enemy'

Would be an end to wars, quick smart

Don't send your kids into the armed forces.  It was never noble and it was always to please overseas warmongers -- which is why they have to talk up ANZAC parades and are going to build a new military cemetery

They try to glorify war.  Look at the computer games

The ONLY wars should be staged against the thugs sitting there with their third stolen child's heart stuffed in their rotting chests as they orchestrate the next round of killings

Demand this government and the one that will replace it get this nation back on its feet by re-establishing manufacturing in this country so our kids can find jobs and hold their heads up -- and maybe even hope for the future

cods wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 9:10am:

I think one of the main things is to stop the entitlement we are breeding..young people think its a natural, if they dont work centrelink will send them enough to get by on...it isnt right.. it should not be accepted as normal.. if you get something from the govt then you shoul.d have to give something back.. and if that means educating yourself so be it.. it is time volunteer work in a lot of instances was a paid job... for instance meals on wheels..it can be a part time job..its just a thought... but when we have generations of people getting paid NOT to work. I cannot see them volunteering in the future to work for nothing..

Problem is cods if volunteer agencies pay volunteers, then they need to be funded.

Will the government fund them? I doubt it and I speak from experience. So they have to go cap in hand around community organisations.

Switzerland is to vote on the proposal to provide everyone 25000 to 30,000 francs per month, whether or not they're working

Australia is touted as a 'rich' nation, one of THE 'richest' nations on the planet

Why can't we provide everyone with a comparable amount per month?

If we did, what would happen?  Would retail improve?  Would there be less drain on the health/mental health systems?  Would the economy improve?

Instead, the current government seemingly wants to penalise those who're old and young and unable to earn their own living -- whilst at the same time, protecting corporations and the rich

Hockey is emerging as a bully, an old fashioned bully with a very cruel streak.  And Abbott - well, I'm beginning to wonder about not only his sanity but also his IQ

[quote author=ZXLX796 link=1399071807/9#9 date=1399073589]
Same old blame the victim mentality which put the smirk on Keating's twisted features

Anyone alive back then will always remember the Bankstown Slug sloping through crowds of unemployed youth while taunting them to 'get a job'  Well not sure what media take you are talking about but the one I remember was him being heckled and they weren't all youths.

Keating, who'd had only one job in his pointless life.  And he'd been sacked from that one job.  For insubordination and arrogance.  Really...  yet Keating decided not to pursue higher education, and instead worked as a pay clerk at Sydney's electricity authority. He then worked as research assistant for a trade union, having joined the Labor Party as soon as he was eligible. In 1966, he became President of the ALP's Youth Council. In the 1960s, Keating also managed rock band "The Ramrods".

Went to school to age 13 or 14.  OR 15/16... which wasn't odd those days. Yet they made him the Treasurer.  Because being an academic isn't a real measure of intelligence.  Same Treasurer who drove this nation down to the point it's never recovered.  Crap... While midget drunkard Hawke seemed to spend most of his conscious moments at Asian racetracks according to the media at the time.  Didn't drink after becoming PM.

Blame the victim  Create a fantasy.

Which is why both pretences of political parties don't want you to know about the Lima Declaration.  Oh no not THE Lima Declaration, a non-binding declaration not a binding treaty...  declaration.  The one we all don't know about   ::) Don't want you to know that beginning in March 1975, 30 percent of all Australian jobs and manufacturing were sent to Asia  Oh no...  in fact it was Whitlam, Grassby and Fraser that started the manufacturing rot at least by words if not real actions, because they felt the need to be seen doing something about the declaration when indeed they didn't have to do anything.  Australia had already, from 1966, long before the Lima Declaration, led the world in conferring concessional tariffs to imports to Australia from developing countries under the Australian System of Tariff Preferences (ASTP).

Some facts care of ON and GWB.
http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/lima/jones.html

same Asia which is now buying all that unaffordable real estate  ::)

same Asia and other 3rd worlders who now have a new middle class larger than the entire population of the US
::)
Asia, India, etc. have jobs  Yet India has almost twice our unemployment rate and China slightly higher than us, regardless of much higher populations.

They have money   ::)

They can afford to send their kids to Australian universities  Really?   I'm betting a greater proportion of the population in both countries can't.

And they can afford to buy the top grades while hard working, intelligent Aussie kids are awarded the dross grades  ::)

Oh, Abbott and Hockey don't want you to work out that there ARE no jobs in Australia  Yet many of us are no doubt aware of the employment situation.

Instead, the Mad Monk and Fatboy are pretending there is so MUCH work in Australia that 70 year olds are in hot demand !  Well they may be misinformed or ignorant of the exact situation, being employed and all that.  But I'm pretty sure the unemployment figures are a constant reminder to them of their political future.

end pt 1.

Keating made his “get a job” jibe at a university. Students were protesting the introduction of HECS.

The country has had 22 years of uninterrupted thanks to Keating.

  I've been one of those volunteers for most of my adult life and I would like to point one thing out, that if they could afford to pay for it they would, would indeed be delighted to do so. It's because no-one can afford to provide those services that we need volunteers in the first place!

Also, while I rarely find PZ547 to be quite in touch in this instance he has said what needs saying eloquently indeed, and I thank him for that.
    The Libs seem intent on turning Oz into a third-world nation as fast as they can, and to be aping America at every turn, perhaps it's time we saw the likes of the Anti-Vietnam War rallies out on the streets again?
      Maybe a solid campaign of civil disruption might get their attention and cause them to rethink their nefarious plans to bring on a sort of New Feudalism?

cods wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 9:18am:

wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 9:15am: Well there you have have it, a liberal government.  Cut the dole for young people, and get older people to work till 70.      :( and a labor govt cut off single mothers pensions  and were raising the retiring age to 67... why dont you find jobs crook instead of whingeing about what the unemployed dont get..as a unionist through and through thats what you should be doing.I dont think the unemployed join unions do they?

“A and a labor govt cut off single mothers pensions  and were raising the retiring age to 67...”

Hmmmm your hero started that, codswallop, Julia just extended it so there weren’t some Mums able to sit on their bums and others having to work. Don’t you know anything about what Howard did?

And they neglected to educate Aussie kids to know that unemployment rose in Australia simultaneous with the outsourcing of Aussie jobs to the 3rd world
Really?  So how do you explain it dropping since 1999 for example?  How do you explain the Depression?  Exporting jobs to Asia perhaps?

So THEY blame the unemployed and elderly  ::)

And the unemployed youth and elderly blame themselves ::)

This isn't right  You can say that again  :D

This stinks Yes being unemployed stinks when you want and need work

Since March 1975 when the initial 30% of Aussie jobs were despatched overseas, the outsourcing has continued  The movement of jobs O/S and outsourcing is a global trend.  Not an Australian one it is linked to trends in work practices and the so called bottom line.  It is part of the culture adopted by many manufacturers and large companies, currently IT companies are a prime example.

There are FEW jobs in Australia now.  And nowhere near enough to soak up all those who're desperately seeking work  yes, I think you may finally be right about something.  But employers and their recruitment agencies are one major reason Australians do not find employment.

The few jobs left are given to migrants !  ::)  Who do you suggest they be given to then if Australians do not take them up?
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Products/6250.0~Nov+2010~Main+Features~Employment?OpenDocument

Mum and Dad are supposed to support their kids to age 25 used to happen in the majority of cases when I was young, most children/youths at that age had part time employment or were going onto higher education of some kind, we have pockets of high youth unemployment, do you suppose they are all living on the streets?  I here many "children" these days stay at home into their 30s.

Saving this stinking pretence of government billions so they can send it to the Congo or somewhere :D :D :D

Then what? What indeed...  what will you say next?   :D :D :D

What happens when the kids turn 25?  Hopefully they will find a job they have more chance than someone over 45.

That's right.  There are no jobs waiting for them anyway  So no one dies and businesses don't grow and no one retires?  Unemployment rates ebb and flow.  It is up to businesses and industries to be productive and create wealth and markets.  It is up to governments to help with legislation, and infrastructure

So they'll have to go on welfare which wouldn't feed a cat.  And they'll feel like crap into the bargain  Some undoubtably will.  That's life

So why isn't our government investing in Aussie manufacturing?  It is a government, not a business.  It is also in a financial pickle.

Why aren't Aussie jobs being returned to our shores?  Because business decision makers see fit not to, for a variety of reasons, mostly the bottom line.

Why is there so much generous financial assistance, health and dental care and free accomodation for migrants?  Migrants or asylum seekers/refugees?

All at the same time as middle-aged Aussies work their guts out in a shrinking marketplace. Really got a particular marketplace in mind? In order to support themselves and their kids -- kids they've already sacrificed for, raised and educated ?  It has always been thus.

Do our politicians deserve to be dragged from the panelled suites WE paid for probably not.

and given a good kicking definitely not

before being jailed for life  :D :D :D

for political treachery ? :D :D :D :D :D

I think they do  how surprising.

I think they deserve the firing squad -- Hawke, Keating, Howard at least  :D :D :D

Instead, those bludgers are living in luxury as reward for destroying our nation  we vote them in... you want change join a party

which not so long ago had the greatest quality of life in the world and we are still right up there

and which has been deliberately reduced to penury, unemployment, hopelessness and generations of ruined lives  well lets hope things improve...

Don't let them blame the victim

Don't buy it

Get angry  :D

Get active  ::)  joined a party yet?

Wow!  By 25 they'll all be Ph.Ds in car theft, racketeering, bank robbery, house breaking, pharmaceuticals manufacture and importation and distribution, handbag snatching, running illegal gin joints, prostitution and pandering, insurance sales to vulnerable business, bein' Bruvvas Fo' Loife an' drooive boin', and a few assorted crimes.

Don't these idiots remember that the Mafia got its start from being disadvantaged and then through prohibition?

Whoever came up with any idea like this has been smoking some of those pharmaceuticals...

cods wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 9:11am:

wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 9:05am: Welfare groups and the National Union of Students have criticised the Youth Allowance as being too low for young people in cities to live outside the family home, and delaying the age of independence.      :( Maree O’Halloran, from the National Welfare Rights Network, said young adults should not have to wait until they were 25 to be granted independence from their parents. “There are already many proposed budget cuts which will hit students and unemployed young people, and this one is particularly short-sighted,’’ she said. “The parental means test for Youth Allowance hits families with incomes over $48,000. The reality is many parents will struggle to support adult children financially, the result being hardship all round.” do you think its the tax payers job to help people leave home????????

well I see that crook has dodged your question to him...  ::)

this may not even be an issue if labor hadn't stuffed our country with massive debt...

it wouldn't have been a problem if the sour grape club didn't vote for them either...

you got what you voted for... short term greed ...

now this is the result of that greed.... and the sour grape club still thinks that Governments should be spraying out money like a Fireman on the end of a fire hose as Rudd and Gillard did during their pathetic tenure...

and no...

Kids don't have to stay in school... they can always GET A JOB...

one of my daughters didn't want to continue on in school after year 10... so I said to her, you either stay in school or GET A FULL TIME JOB... that was the deal... tough love some may call it...

she had been already working at Wollies after school etc for a couple of years and they upped her hours to around 35 hrs a week...

its now great to see our government doing what I had done some years back ... although, our governments should not have to be doing the work of week parents...  ::)

other options for school leavers are ARMY, NAVY or AIRFORCE...  :)

PZ547 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 10:32am:

Switzerland is to vote on the proposal to provide everyone 25000 to 30,000 francs per month, whether or not they're working Australia is touted as a 'rich' nation, one of THE 'richest' nations on the planet Why can't we provide everyone with a comparable amount per month? If we did, what would happen?  Would retail improve?  Would there be less drain on the health/mental health systems?  Would the economy improve? Instead, the current government seemingly wants to penalise those who're old and young and unable to earn their own living -- whilst at the same time, protecting corporations and the rich Hockey is emerging as a bully, an old fashioned bully with a very cruel streak.  And Abbott - well, I'm beginning to wonder about not only his sanity but also his IQ

25000 a month eh...  that's a hell of a lot of money.
what's the cost of living over there?
Thats about the same as paying us $25000 a month.
I'm guessing it is actually $25,000 a year  ::) ::) ::)

Or it could be 2500 francs a month eh.  ;D ;D ;D

talking with one of my Year 12 students recently, we recalled some of the deadbeats who used to go on our bus to school...

they left, or got booted out, of schools by year 9 or 10 and all they have ever achieved is to move out of their homes and fill out the dole forms...

the student said to me that they are still losers on the dole who have never worked a day in their lives...

why should the Australian tax payer pay for these bludgers?

why should they be footing the bill subsiding their rent?

its time to stop this gravy train madness... >:(

wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 9:05am:

Welfare groups and the National Union of Students have criticised the Youth Allowance as being too low for young people in cities to live outside the family home, and delaying the age of independence.      :( Maree O’Halloran, from the National Welfare Rights Network, said young adults should not have to wait until they were 25 to be granted independence from their parents. “There are already many proposed budget cuts which will hit students and unemployed young people, and this one is particularly short-sighted,’’ she said. “The parental means test for Youth Allowance hits families with incomes over $48,000. The reality is many parents will struggle to support adult children financially, the result being hardship all round.”

maybe you need to get a dictionary and work out what 'independence' means.  transferring dependence from family to government is NOT independence.  However getting a job, does.

PZ547 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 10:32am:

Switzerland is to vote on the proposal to provide everyone 25000 to 30,000 francs per month, whether or not they're working Australia is touted as a 'rich' nation, one of THE 'richest' nations on the planet Why can't we provide everyone with a comparable amount per month? If we did, what would happen?  Would retail improve?  Would there be less drain on the health/mental health systems?  Would the economy improve? Instead, the current government seemingly wants to penalise those who're old and young and unable to earn their own living -- whilst at the same time, protecting corporations and the rich Hockey is emerging as a bully, an old fashioned bully with a very cruel streak.  And Abbott - well, I'm beginning to wonder about not only his sanity but also his IQ

link???

I'd been working for several years by the time I turned 25.  In fact, I'd even bought a home before then, and I'm a lazy front bottom. 

The gravy train is approaching the end of the line, my freeloading friends.  I hope you enjoyed it while it lasted, but let's be honest - did you really think they were going to keep throwing money at every front bottom who put their hand up forever?

True Blue... wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 11:30am:

talking with one of my Year 12 students recently, we recalled some of the deadbeats who used to go on our bus to school... they left, or got booted out, of schools by year 9 or 10 and all they have ever achieved is to move out of their homes and fill out the dole forms... the student said to me that they are still losers on the dole who have never worked a day in their lives... why should the Australian tax payer pay for these bludgers? why should they be footing the bill subsiding their rent? its time to stop this gravy train madness... >:(

yet apart from the odd dead person due to drugs some so-called no-hopers from my school ended up;
1/ Being a self employed IT professional.
2/ Running his own very successful pest control company.
3/ Being the head Nurse at the local hospital.
4/ Leaving the Army as a Sergeant in the Engineers and running his own business.
just to name a few.  ;)

PZ547 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 10:32am:

Switzerland is to vote on the proposal to provide everyone 25000 to 30,000 francs per month, whether or not they're working

That can't be accurate. That's like saying everyone gets $300,000 a year (1 CHF = 1.25 AUD).

It's 2500 francs, not 25,000.

cods wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 9:11am:

wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 9:05am: Welfare groups and the National Union of Students have criticised the Youth Allowance as being too low for young people in cities to live outside the family home, and delaying the age of independence.      :( Maree O’Halloran, from the National Welfare Rights Network, said young adults should not have to wait until they were 25 to be granted independence from their parents. “There are already many proposed budget cuts which will hit students and unemployed young people, and this one is particularly short-sighted,’’ she said. “The parental means test for Youth Allowance hits families with incomes over $48,000. The reality is many parents will struggle to support adult children financially, the result being hardship all round.” do you think its the tax payers job to help people leave home????????

It is if they have no parents.

No shame for Swiss jobless: an insider's look


When I lost my job in Zurich three months ago, I felt like the world was collapsing around me. I felt inadequate and angry, and had a sense of shame about becoming unemployed in a foreign country.

And I was also fearful of registering with the regional unemployment centre.

In England, where I come from, such places mean only three things: futility, shame and demoralisation. My own brief experience of the system in the UK was demeaning: my university degree in modern languages seemed to mean nothing to my advisor, who suggested I apply for jobs like shelf-stacking.

I will also never forget one woman telling me that after arriving too early for her appointment, she was ordered to wait outside in the cold — despite having a toddler in tow.

No prejudice towards expats

As well as providing accident insurance, the RAV makes sure that unemployed people are entitled to receive 70 to 80 per cent of their previous salary (according to personal circumstances and up to a maximum of 126,000 francs annually) from the Arbeitslosenkasse (unemployment fund).

There is also scarce prejudice towards you if you are not Swiss. “My RAV consultant spoke to me in English and was always extremely helpful and positive,” one unemployed expat, a sales manager, tells me.

“One of the first things he said was, 'I am here to support you, not to control you.

At the end of the day, being unemployed is never pleasant. But Switzerland's social security system is making it bearable for me. 

With the average person leaving the RAV after less than eight months, it certainly seems the system is working.

http://www.thelocal.ch/20130619/no-shame-for-switzerlands-jobless-an-insiders-look

Grendel wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 11:49am:

True Blue... wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 11:30am: talking with one of my Year 12 students recently, we recalled some of the deadbeats who used to go on our bus to school... they left, or got booted out, of schools by year 9 or 10 and all they have ever achieved is to move out of their homes and fill out the dole forms... the student said to me that they are still losers on the dole who have never worked a day in their lives... why should the Australian tax payer pay for these bludgers? why should they be footing the bill subsiding their rent? its time to stop this gravy train madness... >:( yet apart from the odd dead person due to drugs some so-called no-hopers from my school ended up; 1/ Being a self employed IT professional. 2/ Running his own very successful pest control company. 3/ Being the head Nurse at the local hospital. 4/ Leaving the Army as a Sergeant in the Engineers and running his own business. just to name a few.  ;)

how someone is at 17 is unlikely to be remotely what they are like at 40.  we had some real duds at school who have done great while some with a lot of promise have not gone all that well.

wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 9:03am:

TOUGH new “learn or earn” rules that will deprive all people younger than 25 from receiving the general unemployment payment and push them onto the lower-paying Youth Allowance are set to be unveiled in the federal budget.

Okay seriously I am full Voluntaryist and am 100% against state mandated Welfare as a concept, but that is one of the dumbest f*ck*ng moves I have ever heard of......I've lived off Youth Allowance it's not pretty.

People are complaining about Newstart and the Aged Pension....try living off $70-200 a fort night less. If they think this will force "lazy youths" into work they're dead wrong because there is no work!

Hundreds applying for the same jobs and employers are now cycling Employees for their free government subsidized wages of $5,000/$6,000 after that they discard them and cycle in the next long term unemployed shmuck.

Punishing people in poverty and forcing them even further into poverty is NOT the way to tackle the welfare problem!

If they can't get on Newstart there aren't as many tax funded TAFE courses any more either how are they supposed to get qualifications to get meaningful employment? Not just that but the severe lack of unskilled work available too and the Minimum wage stopping those 21+ from being competing....


Quote:

The government will pitch the change as a measure to force young people into training for “real jobs”.

HOW?!


Quote:

Healthcare and welfare will be the federal budget’s key targets for long-term fiscal reform.

Yeah good but that's not the way to tackle it....durr let's milk a rock!


Quote:

Australia is facing a youth unemployment crisis amid an explosion in the number of young people actively looking for a job and living on welfare payments. The audit commission called this week for a new rule to tackle youth unemployment by forcing young single people aged 22-30, without dependants or special exemptions, to move to areas of higher employment or lose access to benefits after 12 months on the dole.

Hmmm that's interesting, though is forcing people really necessary when they're already in budget suburbs along train lines? ...and if they aren't accepted for a tenancy agreement what then? Cut their payments?


Quote:

The commission has also called for those older than 60 who are on working-age payments including Newstart, the Widow Allowance and Sickness Allowance to receive payment cuts. People older than 60 currently receive higher rates of assistance.

Why? Just to reach a surplus?
Now I'm starting to agree with the left on this one...economically illiterate, yeah and how much wealth fare have they lined up?

F*ck*ng big government parties, just implement a negative income tax you chicken sh*ts!

I feel pretty lucky I don't have to deal with this sh*t anymore, poor kids being punished for what?  >:(

wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 9:05am:

Maree O’Halloran, from the National Welfare Rights Network, said young adults should not have to wait until they were 25 to be granted independence from their parents.

...and those that don't have the option of living with family? It's not even about independence it's actually more about survival for them.

cods wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 9:10am:

I think one of the main things is to stop the entitlement we are breeding..young people think its a natural, if they dont work centrelink will send them enough to get by on...it isnt right.. it should not be accepted as normal..

Exactly!
They need to be focussing on making the subsequent generations more independent and responsible as well as their families, but punishing people already in poverty does nothing to solve the issue.


Quote:

if you get something from the govt then you shoul.d have to give something back.. and if that means educating yourself so be it..

I can't stand the governments hypocrisy though, Distance education is cheaper, more flexible and more widely available and yet the current system punishes people for trying to go on it....


Quote:

it is time volunteer work in a lot of instances was a paid job... for instance meals on wheels..it can be a part time job..its just a thought... but when we have generations of people getting paid NOT to work. I cannot see them volunteering in the future to work for nothing..

Yeah and you have the current system of work for the dole which is a colossal failure, not to mention this new precedent of employers hiring the unemployed only for their free $5-6,000 subsidized wages and then dropping their hours so another free employee can come in.

Well at least they're not scrapping uni you allowance.

My son is at uni learning to get a good job, and he and others like him deserve every bit of youth allowance that they get.

Apart from that, is anyone really surprised?

Abbott and Hockey clearly don't cafe about the poor, unemployed and vulnerable in society, neither does the rest of the Liberal party, and Labor party for that matter.

Glad I didn't vote for either last election, and probably will never do so again.

john_g wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 1:52pm:

Well at least they're not scrapping uni you allowance.

don't be so sure ... budget hasn't come out yet! ;) ;)

John Smith wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 1:54pm:

john_g wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 1:52pm: Well at least they're not scrapping uni you allowance. don't be so sure ... budget hasn't come out yet! ;) ;) Well signs are that they aren't going to, but i wouldn't be surprised if they do one day. Neither of the two major parties cares about anyone but themselves.

Right there - all they care about is their bottom lines and their schoolyard ideologies that are supposed to give everyone a good life...

In Iran they sent such types to the wall daily in hundreds....... Allah was good to those who were wronged thus.....

As a 20 year old on the Dole...i actually support it, its nice but its has stopped me going out and finding a job, i mean why would i haha, i have my own flat, tv, internet, foxtel etc.. i can spend all say playing games drinking with friends and get paid xD

Pantheon wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 2:34pm:

As a 20 year old on the Dole...i actually support it, its nice but its has stopped me going out and finding a job, i mean why would i haha, i have my own flat, tv, internet, foxtel etc.. i can spend all say playing games drinking with friends and get paid xD

All that on $200 a week? good budgeting!

Ahovking for Treasurer!!!

Bam wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 11:57am:

cods wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 9:11am: wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 9:05am: Welfare groups and the National Union of Students have criticised the Youth Allowance as being too low for young people in cities to live outside the family home, and delaying the age of independence.      :( Maree O’Halloran, from the National Welfare Rights Network, said young adults should not have to wait until they were 25 to be granted independence from their parents. “There are already many proposed budget cuts which will hit students and unemployed young people, and this one is particularly short-sighted,’’ she said. “The parental means test for Youth Allowance hits families with incomes over $48,000. The reality is many parents will struggle to support adult children financially, the result being hardship all round.” do you think its the tax payers job to help people leave home???????? It is if they have no parents.

Personally I don't think there is some right that children have that says, you must be able to leave home by....
I think they leave home when they are kicked out or choose to.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 11:59am:

No shame for Swiss jobless: an insider's look When I lost my job in Zurich three months ago, I felt like the world was collapsing around me. I felt inadequate and angry, and had a sense of shame about becoming unemployed in a foreign country. And I was also fearful of registering with the regional unemployment centre. In England, where I come from, such places mean only three things: futility, shame and demoralisation. My own brief experience of the system in the UK was demeaning: my university degree in modern languages seemed to mean nothing to my advisor, who suggested I apply for jobs like shelf-stacking. I will also never forget one woman telling me that after arriving too early for her appointment, she was ordered to wait outside in the cold — despite having a toddler in tow. No prejudice towards expats As well as providing accident insurance, the RAV makes sure that unemployed people are entitled to receive 70 to 80 per cent of their previous salary (according to personal circumstances and up to a maximum of 126,000 francs annually) from the Arbeitslosenkasse (unemployment fund). There is also scarce prejudice towards you if you are not Swiss. “My RAV consultant spoke to me in English and was always extremely helpful and positive,” one unemployed expat, a sales manager, tells me. “One of the first things he said was, 'I am here to support you, not to control you. At the end of the day, being unemployed is never pleasant. But Switzerland's social security system is making it bearable for me. With the average person leaving the RAV after less than eight months, it certainly seems the system is working. http://www.thelocal.ch/20130619/no-shame-for-switzerlands-jobless-an-insiders-look

Sounds good Pansi thanks for the article.  Will look further into it.

Grendel wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 4:08pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 11:59am: No shame for Swiss jobless: an insider's look When I lost my job in Zurich three months ago, I felt like the world was collapsing around me. I felt inadequate and angry, and had a sense of shame about becoming unemployed in a foreign country. And I was also fearful of registering with the regional unemployment centre. In England, where I come from, such places mean only three things: futility, shame and demoralisation. My own brief experience of the system in the UK was demeaning: my university degree in modern languages seemed to mean nothing to my advisor, who suggested I apply for jobs like shelf-stacking. I will also never forget one woman telling me that after arriving too early for her appointment, she was ordered to wait outside in the cold — despite having a toddler in tow. No prejudice towards expats As well as providing accident insurance, the RAV makes sure that unemployed people are entitled to receive 70 to 80 per cent of their previous salary (according to personal circumstances and up to a maximum of 126,000 francs annually) from the Arbeitslosenkasse (unemployment fund). There is also scarce prejudice towards you if you are not Swiss. “My RAV consultant spoke to me in English and was always extremely helpful and positive,” one unemployed expat, a sales manager, tells me. “One of the first things he said was, 'I am here to support you, not to control you. At the end of the day, being unemployed is never pleasant. But Switzerland's social security system is making it bearable for me. With the average person leaving the RAV after less than eight months, it certainly seems the system is working. http://www.thelocal.ch/20130619/no-shame-for-switzerlands-jobless-an-insiders-look Sounds good Pansi thanks for the article.  Will look further into it.

Norway has a similar system ...  I believe it's 100% of your wage for the first 6 months, 80% for the next 6 months, and after that you're on your own.

I guess given the temperature extremes over there they have to do something to support all the tradesmen etc that can't do their jobs in the -30 to -40 degee temps.

Vuk11 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 1:01pm:

wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 9:05am: Maree O’Halloran, from the National Welfare Rights Network, said young adults should not have to wait until they were 25 to be granted independence from their parents. ...and those that don't have the option of living with family? It's not even about independence it's actually more about survival for them.

they have the options of study or getting a job.  or staying at home.  why should the govt provide a third non-working option?

do you know that generations before this one never got the dole after leaving school? or youth allowance or student allowance?  we just got jobs or stayed at home. or both.

longweekend58 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 5:04pm:

they have the options of study or getting a job.  or staying at home.  why should the govt provide a third non-working option?

This is one thing that pisses me off, they should be studying you're right but this Liberal government is punishing, interrogating and attacking people that choose to do distance education which is cheaper, more flexible and more widely available. If they said "sure Distance education will be treated the same as any other face to face form of education" I wouldn't be up in arms over it.


Quote:

do you know that generations before this one never got the dole after leaving school? or youth allowance or student allowance?  we just got jobs or stayed at home. or both.

That's what I argue for, opportunity and a shift in mentality/responsibility but punishing people already in poverty/welfare doesn't really help that compared to working on the upcoming generations before they have a chance to get trapped into welfare.

It just seems like they want to squeeze the youth and put this lazy label on them when they aren't even addressing the issues of hundreds of people applying for every unskilled position and the total lack of opportunity.

If they can't pass the right legislation and also get rid of the Carbon/Mining taxes then all attacking the youth will do is make them worse off.

I'm all for our youth, and not so 'youth', earning and/or learning.

In saying that, two questions have to be taken into consideration.

1....Where are all the jobs?

2....Why are TAFE courses being cancelled and tutors retrenched??

Better make that 3 questions....

How can some youngster, straight out of school, afford the exorbitant fees now charged by the TAFEs for the courses that are still existant???

;)

Lobo wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 6:53pm:

1....Where are all the jobs?

Manufacturing was a major source of Min. wage jobs, but that has decreased, foreign students have flooded many remaining factories I would love to know the specifics of why) and there is too much burden on small business to utilize all of the unemployed youth. Get out of their way I say and let the market flow like water as it tries to, allow labour to flow to where the demand is and allow there to actually be some demand in the first place instead of throttling it!



Quote:

How can some youngster, straight out of school, afford the exorbitant fees now charged by the TAFEs for the courses that are still existant??? ;)

If unskilled positions were plentiful enough to scoop up the unskilled labour floating around, they would find it easy to afford TAFE and even Uni, especially with the increase in Distance education. As I've said before it's cheap, flexible and widely available but the government is so far behind it actually punishes people for pursuing it!

Lobo wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 6:53pm:

I'm all for our youth, and not so 'youth', earning and/or learning. In saying that, two questions have to be taken into consideration. 1....Where are all the jobs? 2....Why are TAFE courses being cancelled and tutors retrenched?? Better make that 3 questions.... How can some youngster, straight out of school, afford the exorbitant fees now charged by the TAFEs for the courses that are still existant??? ;)

part-time jobs.  just like every other graduate in the country from 20+ years ago.  no youth allowance, no welfare.  we just studied and worked.

So, I take it you are saying...

1...There aren't any!
2...No answer...don't know? (Neither do I, but it's not a good move.)
3...They can't!

What I would really like is for Abbott, or Hockey, to answer these three questions, but that sure ain't gonna happen....

;)

longweekend58 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:29pm:

Lobo wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 6:53pm: I'm all for our youth, and not so 'youth', earning and/or learning. In saying that, two questions have to be taken into consideration. 1....Where are all the jobs? 2....Why are TAFE courses being cancelled and tutors retrenched?? Better make that 3 questions.... How can some youngster, straight out of school, afford the exorbitant fees now charged by the TAFEs for the courses that are still existant??? ;) part-time jobs.  just like every other graduate in the country from 20+ years ago.  no youth allowance, no welfare.  we just studied and worked.

How many do you have on offer???

:)

Lobo wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:37pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 7:29pm: Lobo wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 6:53pm: I'm all for our youth, and not so 'youth', earning and/or learning. In saying that, two questions have to be taken into consideration. 1....Where are all the jobs? 2....Why are TAFE courses being cancelled and tutors retrenched?? Better make that 3 questions.... How can some youngster, straight out of school, afford the exorbitant fees now charged by the TAFEs for the courses that are still existant??? ;) part-time jobs.  just like every other graduate in the country from 20+ years ago.  no youth allowance, no welfare.  we just studied and worked. How many do you have on offer??? :)

why don't you ask fast food places. coles woollies, factories and all the other places students have worked in for decades past.

Hey Longy,

have you got a job for Crook?

he'll accept your usual wages -

$12,000 a week for water training.    ;D

longweekend58 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:44pm:

why don't you ask fast food places. coles woollies, factories and all the other places students have worked in for decades past.

Sorry they're full.
The minimum wage makes sure anyone 21+ does not get  work at those places unless previously experienced, even then there are hundreds applying for each position.

Then we have casual work problems where I know work is going back towards full-time/part-time however government subsidized wages of the unemployed guarantee a continuous cycling of the unemployed and not permanent employment, just exploitation for their pretty little $5,000 subsidized wage tag.

longweekend58 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:44pm:

Lobo wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 7:37pm: longweekend58 wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 7:29pm: Lobo wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 6:53pm: I'm all for our youth, and not so 'youth', earning and/or learning. In saying that, two questions have to be taken into consideration. 1....Where are all the jobs? 2....Why are TAFE courses being cancelled and tutors retrenched?? Better make that 3 questions.... How can some youngster, straight out of school, afford the exorbitant fees now charged by the TAFEs for the courses that are still existant??? ;) part-time jobs.  just like every other graduate in the country from 20+ years ago.  no youth allowance, no welfare.  we just studied and worked. How many do you have on offer??? :) why don't you ask fast food places. coles woollies, factories and all the other places students have worked in for decades past.

I'm not looking for one.

I guess your answer means that you don't have any jobs on offer.

:)

Vuk11 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:47pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 7:44pm: why don't you ask fast food places. coles woollies, factories and all the other places students have worked in for decades past. Sorry they're full. The minimum wage makes sure anyone 21+ does not get  work at those places unless previously experienced, even then there are hundreds applying for each position. Then we have casual work problems where I know work is going back towards full-time/part-time however government subsidized wages of the unemployed guarantee a continuous cycling of the unemployed and not permanent employment, just exploitation for their pretty little $5,000 subsidized wage tag.

You noticed that as well.....

;)

longweekend58 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 5:04pm:

Vuk11 wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 1:01pm: wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 9:05am: Maree O’Halloran, from the National Welfare Rights Network, said young adults should not have to wait until they were 25 to be granted independence from their parents. ...and those that don't have the option of living with family? It's not even about independence it's actually more about survival for them. they have the options of study or getting a job.  or staying at home.  why should the govt provide a third non-working option? do you know that generations before this one never got the dole after leaving school? or youth allowance or student allowance?  we just got jobs or stayed at home. or both.

What about people who have studied and can't get a job?

Thousands of students study hard and just can't find work.

I haven't noticed swathes of businesses closing because they can't find staff. Likewise, there is no current evidence of a wage breakout while employers bid up the price of workers with demand outstripping supply.

The only conclusion is that the jobs are simply not there.

Apparently young people are old enough to work and pay taxes, vote, study, drive, die in another country serving this one, drink smoke and gamble but if they want to move out of home, they better make sure they have a job first.

How delaying the right to receive unemployment benefits until the age of 25 will empower young people is beyond me.

The days of guaranteed jobs are a relic of the 70's so young people really have few choices. All the most menial jobs that would otherwise go to the young and low skilled workers are automatically filled by 457 workers.

With this being the case it can be almost impossible at times for young people to find work. We have gone from a first world nation where the government subsidised industries which employed hundreds of thousands to one to one where all these jobs are being out sourced, the few remaining jobs are being filled with foreign workers and everybody else not employed is being screwed over.

What does the government do to remedy this situation ? scrap the 457 visa ? turn the spotlight on the employer's discriminatory hiring practices ? invest in and expand education services ? NO, NO and NO. Never one for admitting that they may be in some way contributing to rising unemployment they choose instead to blame the unemployed themselves.

Under Labour hundreds of thousands of single mothers joined the dole que, Under the coalition hundreds of thousands of auto manufacturers are set to do the same ! Its heartless governments out to save money which are responsible for the rise in unemployment over the last 12 months.  Its time they owned up to this crime and stopped blaming the global economy, the Australian dollar, market force dynamics or any other thing they can think of. Their responsibility should be in insuring jobs remain in this country rather than penalising the very people who will one day be expected to lead this country.

ther govt. is just trying to pass it's responsiblities to anyone else ... no dole before 25, no pension until 70 .... they aren't actually doing anything to help any of those groups, just limit its own responsibilities. This doesn't actually fix anything, it's just moving goalposts.

longweekend58 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 5:04pm:

Vuk11 wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 1:01pm: wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 9:05am: Maree O’Halloran, from the National Welfare Rights Network, said young adults should not have to wait until they were 25 to be granted independence from their parents. ...and those that don't have the option of living with family? It's not even about independence it's actually more about survival for them. they have the options of study or getting a job.  or staying at home.  why should the govt provide a third non-working option? do you know that generations before this one never got the dole after leaving school? or youth allowance or student allowance?  we just got jobs or stayed at home. or both.

It's not providing a third non-working option - it's providing in the event the first two are not available...

Rubbish - the dole was available since I was a kid.... just not as often used for the simple reason that people could get work.

BTW - the days of 'full employment' didn't lead to massive demands for pay rises and the 'effect of market forces' on wages - it was all pretty regulated, same as it is now - yet it all worked and the country was prosperous ....

Ah, yes the good old days pre-feminism.....

wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 9:05am:

Welfare groups and the National Union of Students have criticised the Youth Allowance as being too low for young people in cities to live outside the family home, and delaying the age of independence.      :( Maree O’Halloran, from the National Welfare Rights Network, said young adults should not have to wait until they were 25 to be granted independence from their parents. “There are already many proposed budget cuts which will hit students and unemployed young people, and this one is particularly short-sighted,’’ she said. “The parental means test for Youth Allowance hits families with incomes over $48,000. The reality is many parents will struggle to support adult children financially, the result being hardship all round.”

What twisted mentality.

"Granted independence". She should say 'being allowd to change one dependency for another, dependence on parents to dependence on taxpayer'.

Young people are 'granted' independence when they turn 18.  Any dependence they have after that is dependence THEY want.
So the language of spokesthingy cunningly creates the emotional undertone suggesting that a government not willing to be a surrogate parent is somehow keeping young people in semi-slavery.

Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 4^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

longweekend58 wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 5:04pm: Vuk11 wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 1:01pm: wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 9:05am: Maree O’Halloran, from the National Welfare Rights Network, said young adults should not have to wait until they were 25 to be granted independence from their parents. ...and those that don't have the option of living with family? It's not even about independence it's actually more about survival for them. they have the options of study or getting a job.  or staying at home.  why should the govt provide a third non-working option? do you know that generations before this one never got the dole after leaving school? or youth allowance or student allowance?  we just got jobs or stayed at home. or both. It's not providing a third non-working option - it's providing in the event the first two are not available... Rubbish - the dole was available since I was a kid.... just not as often used for the simple reason that people could get work. BTW - the days of 'full employment' didn't lead to massive demands for pay rises and the 'effect of market forces' on wages - it was all pretty regulated, same as it is now - yet it all worked and the country was prosperous .... Ah, yes the good old days pre-feminism.....

I, too, was wondering just which generation he's referring to.

I'm a 'baby boomer', 1958-vintage, and the dole was certainly around when I left school. But as you point out, we didn't need it because jobs were literally falling out of the trees back then. I started my first job a whole 48 hours after I walked out of the school gates for the final time.

Three months later, I decided that wasn't really what I wanted to do so I left that job. Took me a whole week and a half to start a new one. Left that one too, after about six months, and within three weeks had another.

Never even considered the dole as an alternative. We knew it was there, but always viewed it as what it was originally intended to be - a 'last resort' payment to help for the few weeks it may have taken to get another job, as there were literally jobs for all who wanted one.

And herein lies the genesis of the 'dole bludger' myth which so taints the unemployed to this day... the fact that the jobs were falling out of trees. This led some to believe that it was OK to 'sit' on the dole for a few months as a sort of 'holiday', knowing that they could get a job any time they wanted one. And so, of course, a minority did just that.

The then Opposition used this group to demonise and stereotype all unemployed as being thus motivated and encouraged to not work, as a lever against the Whitlam government. And they've continued pushing that lie to this very day. One has only to read some of the comments posted both here and elsewhere whenever (for example) the question of raising the No-Start payment to something realistic is discussed to see that this insidious and long-term demonization of the unemployed has worked, and worked well.

Fast-forward to 2014, and we have 800k people scrambling for 200k jobs, and any of them are the young. So what's the conservative response? Force the oldies to keep working longer, thereby denying many of these young adults a start in life, while still demonising every unemployed person as a bludger who won't work. The consider things like an internet connection a 'luxury' that the unemployed simply shouldn't be 'entitled to', despite the fact it's almost essential for job-searching. They carry-on about how the dole 'isn't a lifestyle choice', while denying the obvious, namely that for many it IS a lifestyle and one they are stuck in, but certainly not by choice. And it's one you could find yourselves living tomorrow, next week or in six months' time.

With all the will in the world there will still only be a quarter as many jobs as there are those who need them.

And there will still be the ignorant, the greedy, the mis-informed and the just plain nasty to abuse them for it.



*Waits to be either abused or ignored**

Kat wrote on May 4^th, 2014 at 1:16pm:

Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 10:45am: longweekend58 wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 5:04pm: Vuk11 wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 1:01pm: wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 9:05am: Maree O’Halloran, from the National Welfare Rights Network, said young adults should not have to wait until they were 25 to be granted independence from their parents. ...and those that don't have the option of living with family? It's not even about independence it's actually more about survival for them. they have the options of study or getting a job.  or staying at home.  why should the govt provide a third non-working option? do you know that generations before this one never got the dole after leaving school? or youth allowance or student allowance?  we just got jobs or stayed at home. or both. It's not providing a third non-working option - it's providing in the event the first two are not available... Rubbish - the dole was available since I was a kid.... just not as often used for the simple reason that people could get work. BTW - the days of 'full employment' didn't lead to massive demands for pay rises and the 'effect of market forces' on wages - it was all pretty regulated, same as it is now - yet it all worked and the country was prosperous .... Ah, yes the good old days pre-feminism..... I, too, was wondering just which generation he's referring to. I'm a 'baby boomer', 1958-vintage, and the dole was certainly around when I left school. But as you point out, we didn't need it because jobs were literally falling out of the trees back then. I started my first job a whole 48 hours after I walked out of the school gates for the final time. Three months later, I decided that wasn't really what I wanted to do so I left that job. Took me a whole week and a half to start a new one. Left that one too, after about six months, and within three weeks had another. Never even considered the dole as an alternative. We knew it was there, but always viewed it as what it was originally intended to be - a 'last resort' payment to help for the few weeks it may have taken to get another job, as there were literally jobs for all who wanted one. And herein lies the genesis of the 'dole bludger' myth which so taints the unemployed to this day... the fact that the jobs were falling out of trees. This led some to believe that it was OK to 'sit' on the dole for a few months as a sort of 'holiday', knowing that they could get a job any time they wanted one. And so, of course, a minority did just that. The then Opposition used this group to demonise and stereotype all unemployed as being thus motivated and encouraged to not work, as a lever against the Whitlam government. And they've continued pushing that lie to this very day. One has only to read some of the comments posted both here and elsewhere whenever (for example) the question of raising the No-Start payment to something realistic is discussed to see that this insidious and long-term demonization of the unemployed has worked, and worked well. Fast-forward to 2014, and we have 800k people scrambling for 200k jobs, and any of them are the young. So what's the conservative response? Force the oldies to keep working longer, thereby denying many of these young adults a start in life, while still demonising every unemployed person as a bludger who won't work. The consider things like an internet connection a 'luxury' that the unemployed simply shouldn't be 'entitled to', despite the fact it's almost essential for job-searching. They carry-on about how the dole 'isn't a lifestyle choice', while denying the obvious, namely that for many it IS a lifestyle and one they are stuck in, but certainly not by choice. And it's one you could find yourselves living tomorrow, next week or in six months' time. With all the will in the world there will still only be a quarter as many jobs as there are those who need them. And there will still be the ignorant, the greedy, the mis-informed and the just plain nasty to abuse them for it. *Waits to be either abused or ignored**

Well said....

Soren wrote on May 4^th, 2014 at 12:20pm:

wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 9:05am: Welfare groups and the National Union of Students have criticised the Youth Allowance as being too low for young people in cities to live outside the family home, and delaying the age of independence.      :( Maree O’Halloran, from the National Welfare Rights Network, said young adults should not have to wait until they were 25 to be granted independence from their parents. “There are already many proposed budget cuts which will hit students and unemployed young people, and this one is particularly short-sighted,’’ she said. “The parental means test for Youth Allowance hits families with incomes over $48,000. The reality is many parents will struggle to support adult children financially, the result being hardship all round.” What twisted mentality. "Granted independence". She should say 'being allowd to change one dependency for another, dependence on parents to dependence on taxpayer'. Young people are 'granted' independence when they turn 18.  Any dependence they have after that is dependence THEY want. So the language of spokesthingy cunningly creates the emotional undertone suggesting that a government not willing to be a surrogate parent is somehow keeping young people in semi-slavery.

Thanks for backing me up Soren... :)

Kat wrote on May 4^th, 2014 at 1:16pm:

Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 10:45am: longweekend58 wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 5:04pm: Vuk11 wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 1:01pm: wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 9:05am: Maree O’Halloran, from the National Welfare Rights Network, said young adults should not have to wait until they were 25 to be granted independence from their parents. ...and those that don't have the option of living with family? It's not even about independence it's actually more about survival for them. they have the options of study or getting a job.  or staying at home.  why should the govt provide a third non-working option? do you know that generations before this one never got the dole after leaving school? or youth allowance or student allowance?  we just got jobs or stayed at home. or both. It's not providing a third non-working option - it's providing in the event the first two are not available... Rubbish - the dole was available since I was a kid.... just not as often used for the simple reason that people could get work. BTW - the days of 'full employment' didn't lead to massive demands for pay rises and the 'effect of market forces' on wages - it was all pretty regulated, same as it is now - yet it all worked and the country was prosperous .... Ah, yes the good old days pre-feminism..... I, too, was wondering just which generation he's referring to. I'm a 'baby boomer', 1958-vintage, and the dole was certainly around when I left school. But as you point out, we didn't need it because jobs were literally falling out of the trees back then. I started my first job a whole 48 hours after I walked out of the school gates for the final time. Three months later, I decided that wasn't really what I wanted to do so I left that job. Took me a whole week and a half to start a new one. Left that one too, after about six months, and within three weeks had another. Never even considered the dole as an alternative. We knew it was there, but always viewed it as what it was originally intended to be - a 'last resort' payment to help for the few weeks it may have taken to get another job, as there were literally jobs for all who wanted one. And herein lies the genesis of the 'dole bludger' myth which so taints the unemployed to this day... the fact that the jobs were falling out of trees. This led some to believe that it was OK to 'sit' on the dole for a few months as a sort of 'holiday', knowing that they could get a job any time they wanted one. And so, of course, a minority did just that. The then Opposition used this group to demonise and stereotype all unemployed as being thus motivated and encouraged to not work, as a lever against the Whitlam government. And they've continued pushing that lie to this very day. One has only to read some of the comments posted both here and elsewhere whenever (for example) the question of raising the No-Start payment to something realistic is discussed to see that this insidious and long-term demonization of the unemployed has worked, and worked well. Fast-forward to 2014, and we have 800k people scrambling for 200k jobs, and any of them are the young. So what's the conservative response? Force the oldies to keep working longer, thereby denying many of these young adults a start in life, while still demonising every unemployed person as a bludger who won't work. The consider things like an internet connection a 'luxury' that the unemployed simply shouldn't be 'entitled to', despite the fact it's almost essential for job-searching. They carry-on about how the dole 'isn't a lifestyle choice', while denying the obvious, namely that for many it IS a lifestyle and one they are stuck in, but certainly not by choice. And it's one you could find yourselves living tomorrow, next week or in six months' time. With all the will in the world there will still only be a quarter as many jobs as there are those who need them. And there will still be the ignorant, the greedy, the mis-informed and the just plain nasty to abuse them for it. *Waits to be either abused or ignored**

yep....  well said, many good points.

Kat wrote on May 4^th, 2014 at 1:16pm:

I'm a 'baby boomer', 1958-vintage, and the dole was certainly around when I left school. But as you point out, we didn't need it because jobs were literally falling out of the trees back then. I started my first job a whole 48 hours after I walked out of the school gates for the final time.

Exactly.


Quote:

Never even considered the dole as an alternative. We knew it was there, but always viewed it as what it was originally intended to be - a 'last resort' payment to help for the few weeks it may have taken to get another job, as there were literally jobs for all who wanted one.

Exactly!
From what I remember (I'm a Millennial) it was quite a while before I even know welfare existed and I would much have preferred not knowing it existed forever so it never would've entered my mind as an alternative. So when I went off into the defence force and my parents asked "what if it doesn't work out!?" (they wanted to move into the country), I wouldn't have said "Don't worry it will work out! If it doesn't I can always live with X and get payments until I get another job!", biggest mistake of my life.

Not only did it not work out, but I couldn't find another job for ages and didn't have the option of living with the parents because they were in a 1 bedroom cabin trying to run their business' and put something on the land they bought. What made it worse was it was illegal for them to buy something cheap like a Caravan and live on it without paying $1,000s in fees etc.

So in a sense it was illegal for them to get something that would've allowed me to live with them.

Just another example of how a combination of regulation + welfare keeps people from being socially mobile.



Quote:

Fast-forward to 2014, and we have 800k people scrambling for 200k jobs, and any of them are the young. So what's the conservative response? Force the oldies to keep working longer, thereby denying many of these young adults a start in life, while still demonising every unemployed person as a bludger who won't work. The consider things like an internet connection a 'luxury' that the unemployed simply shouldn't be 'entitled to', despite the fact it's almost essential for job-searching. They carry-on about how the dole 'isn't a lifestyle choice', while denying the obvious, namely that for many it IS a lifestyle and one they are stuck in, but certainly not by choice. And it's one you could find yourselves living tomorrow, next week or in six months' time.

I'm against welfare as a concept but good point and good post.

It would be much easier IMO if they fired off centrelink and job service providers and replaced it with a negative income tax that could see people receiving from $500/600/700 -> straight to $800 a fortnight across the board actually allowing them to afford higher education. Not to mention they would get their dignity back instead of constantly being interrogated by social workers that are instead of helping people are forced to act as policemen of the poor. (obviously if they ever did a negative income tax they'd have to sort the issue of the lack of unskilled work available)

@Grappler, Grendel and Vuk11...


Thank you. :)

longweekend58 wrote on May 3^rd, 2014 at 7:29pm:

Lobo wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 6:53pm: I'm all for our youth, and not so 'youth', earning and/or learning. In saying that, two questions have to be taken into consideration. 1....Where are all the jobs? 2....Why are TAFE courses being cancelled and tutors retrenched?? Better make that 3 questions.... How can some youngster, straight out of school, afford the exorbitant fees now charged by the TAFEs for the courses that are still existant??? ;) part-time jobs.  just like every other graduate in the country from 20+ years ago.  no youth allowance, no welfare.  we just studied and worked.

Shame it's not twenty plus years ago, where I could work two jobs, save up for a year, backpack around Europe for a year, come back and have a choice of jobs the next week. Unfortunately, that's in the past and so are your silly options.

Kat wrote on May 4^th, 2014 at 1:16pm:

I'm a 'baby boomer', 1958-vintage, and the dole was certainly around when I left school. But as you point out, we didn't need it because jobs were literally falling out of the trees back then. I started my first job a whole 48 hours after I walked out of the school gates for the final time. Three months later, I decided that wasn't really what I wanted to do so I left that job. Took me a whole week and a half to start a new one. Left that one too, after about six months, and within three weeks had another. Never even considered the dole as an alternative. We knew it was there, but always viewed it as what it was originally intended to be - a 'last resort' payment to help for the few weeks it may have taken to get another job, as there were literally jobs for all who wanted one. And herein lies the genesis of the 'dole bludger' myth which so taints the unemployed to this day... the fact that the jobs were falling out of trees. This led some to believe that it was OK to 'sit' on the dole for a few months as a sort of 'holiday', knowing that they could get a job any time they wanted one. And so, of course, a minority did just that. The then Opposition used this group to demonise and stereotype all unemployed as being thus motivated and encouraged to not work, as a lever against the Whitlam government. And they've continued pushing that lie to this very day. One has only to read some of the comments posted both here and elsewhere whenever (for example) the question of raising the No-Start payment to something realistic is discussed to see that this insidious and long-term demonization of the unemployed has worked, and worked well. Fast-forward to 2014, and we have 800k people scrambling for 200k jobs, and any of them are the young. So what's the conservative response? Force the oldies to keep working longer, thereby denying many of these young adults a start in life, while still demonising every unemployed person as a bludger who won't work. The consider things like an internet connection a 'luxury' that the unemployed simply shouldn't be 'entitled to', despite the fact it's almost essential for job-searching. They carry-on about how the dole 'isn't a lifestyle choice', while denying the obvious, namely that for many it IS a lifestyle and one they are stuck in, but certainly not by choice. And it's one you could find yourselves living tomorrow, next week or in six months' time. With all the will in the world there will still only be a quarter as many jobs as there are those who need them. And there will still be the ignorant, the greedy, the mis-informed and the just plain nasty to abuse them for it. *Waits to be either abused or ignored**

Er... may I say .... er... immigration?  Too many people for not enough jobs?


Or is that wacist?

fractalign wrote on May 4^th, 2014 at 10:39am:

The days of guaranteed jobs are a relic of the 70's

Yes - we haven't had full employment since the 1970s.

Yet we still have idiots still stuck in the 1950s who seem to think the only reason people have no jobs is because they are too lazy to get one. Go figure. It is victimisation, pure and simple.

Even basic jobs these days get hundreds of applicants - and by corollary, some people have to apply for hundreds of positions before landing one.

Even worse, the rampant abuse of casual work conditions means that most of the available jobs are casual. Permanent full time jobs that are open to the public are scarce. Very scarce.

Kat wrote on May 4^th, 2014 at 1:16pm:

Grappler Truth Teller wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 10:45am: longweekend58 wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 5:04pm: Vuk11 wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 1:01pm: wrote on May 3rd, 2014 at 9:05am: Maree O’Halloran, from the National Welfare Rights Network, said young adults should not have to wait until they were 25 to be granted independence from their parents. ...and those that don't have the option of living with family? It's not even about independence it's actually more about survival for them. they have the options of study or getting a job.  or staying at home.  why should the govt provide a third non-working option? do you know that generations before this one never got the dole after leaving school? or youth allowance or student allowance?  we just got jobs or stayed at home. or both. It's not providing a third non-working option - it's providing in the event the first two are not available... Rubbish - the dole was available since I was a kid.... just not as often used for the simple reason that people could get work. BTW - the days of 'full employment' didn't lead to massive demands for pay rises and the 'effect of market forces' on wages - it was all pretty regulated, same as it is now - yet it all worked and the country was prosperous .... Ah, yes the good old days pre-feminism..... I, too, was wondering just which generation he's referring to. I'm a 'baby boomer', 1958-vintage, and the dole was certainly around when I left school. But as you point out, we didn't need it because jobs were literally falling out of the trees back then. I started my first job a whole 48 hours after I walked out of the school gates for the final time. Three months later, I decided that wasn't really what I wanted to do so I left that job. Took me a whole week and a half to start a new one. Left that one too, after about six months, and within three weeks had another. Never even considered the dole as an alternative. We knew it was there, but always viewed it as what it was originally intended to be - a 'last resort' payment to help for the few weeks it may have taken to get another job, as there were literally jobs for all who wanted one. And herein lies the genesis of the 'dole bludger' myth which so taints the unemployed to this day... the fact that the jobs were falling out of trees. This led some to believe that it was OK to 'sit' on the dole for a few months as a sort of 'holiday', knowing that they could get a job any time they wanted one. And so, of course, a minority did just that. The then Opposition used this group to demonise and stereotype all unemployed as being thus motivated and encouraged to not work, as a lever against the Whitlam government. And they've continued pushing that lie to this very day. One has only to read some of the comments posted both here and elsewhere whenever (for example) the question of raising the No-Start payment to something realistic is discussed to see that this insidious and long-term demonization of the unemployed has worked, and worked well. Fast-forward to 2014, and we have 800k people scrambling for 200k jobs, and any of them are the young. So what's the conservative response? Force the oldies to keep working longer, thereby denying many of these young adults a start in life, while still demonising every unemployed person as a bludger who won't work. The consider things like an internet connection a 'luxury' that the unemployed simply shouldn't be 'entitled to', despite the fact it's almost essential for job-searching. They carry-on about how the dole 'isn't a lifestyle choice', while denying the obvious, namely that for many it IS a lifestyle and one they are stuck in, but certainly not by choice. And it's one you could find yourselves living tomorrow, next week or in six months' time. With all the will in the world there will still only be a quarter as many jobs as there are those who need them. And there will still be the ignorant, the greedy, the mis-informed and the just plain nasty to abuse them for it. *Waits to be either abused or ignored**

Brilliant, Kat....
Our mate will probably go off on another Sabbatical after that.....

:)